Broad Ideas with Rachel Bilson & Olivia Allen - Lara Everly on Her Breast Cancer Journey

Episode Date: October 20, 2025

Rachel and Olivia sit down with Lara Everly to talk about the strength it took to face breast cancer while going through a divorce, how she’s learned to spend her energy on what truly matters, and what’s next on her creative path.Watch the video of this episode here!Like the show? Rate Broad Ideas 5-Stars on Apple Podcasts and SpotifyAdvertise on Broad Ideas via Gumball.fm See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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We'll talk about boys. Because people die. Welcome to broad ideas. Hi. Hi. Are you going to be talking today? I don't know how not to. Okay.

You know, we haven't touched on this yet this month. but we are in October, which is breast cancer awareness month. Yes, it is. I think it's important to acknowledge. Very important. And Laura Everley, who's here with us today, is going to talk about her experience. Yeah. Check it out.

We're just making the cursing really comfortable. Yeah, we're just warming you up. Yes, great. Like you can just let it all out. Yeah. We have a swear jar in my house, and it's. It's like a competition between me and ever, the seven-year-old on like who puts in more. Leo never does, but it's very bad.

Me and the second grader are like every day just like, your second grader? Yes, just pouring change into the swear jar. Well or boy? Boy. Two boys. Yeah, two boys. Yeah.

Shepard was asking about Ever this weekend. Really? He was like, where's my friend? And I was like, which one? He was like the one with the hair. With the hair. It's like his signature. Oh, really?

He's just got. a main like curls so much oh thanks it's a weird one no it's so cool oh thank you it was really hard naming a second boy i was like i'm done i tapped out like i did it i did it yeah did not plan on having to name two boys really and there were like no good names left that's how i felt there were no good names besides leo well you know what's weird yeah well also like every name that we didn't use for leo felt like the reject yeah you didn't want to go name and i want to go back to the old list. Yeah.

So it was like starting over. I don't know. Nothing felt right. We did that too. Yeah. You're like this didn't feel right for him. It feels off to give it to the next kit. Yes.

Yeah. What were some of the names? Well, we had Oscar was a big contender. That was your dog. I know, but I love the name, obviously. Because you had a dog already named Oscar? Yeah, but not anymore. Okay.

It wasn't like the dog was there. No, no, no, no. I had a cat as a child named Leo. Oh, my gosh. And people were like, you can't. I'm like, please, like, Leo died when I was like eight. So long ago. I can't resurrect Leo.

And my sister's like, I don't know, it makes me think of the cat. I'm like. It'll change. And now it's my kid. But yeah. Same. We had Lucas. Oh, yeah.

I knew that one. Oscar. I already said that. No, but Ozzy was going to be short for Oscar. Which I still love. Yeah. Yeah. I had a living cat at the time named Finn.

And I've always loved the boy named Finn, but you can't name a child after an animal. A living animal. That's actually a good debate, like how people feel about that. Like, can you name? Someone we met did. What do you mean? A child or a pet? They named a child or a pet after a living person or a pet.

A child. Really? After a living animal. Interesting. I have a friend whose dog was named Oliver and then she named her daughter, Olivia. And I felt like it was like a little close to the bone. But I was like, okay. I feel like that's...

I always loved the name Oliver, but I was like, I can't. Yeah. She was in love with two different Oliver's growing up. I was in love with two different Oliver. So, one, I couldn't do that because that'd be weird. And then... I think it'd be great. Also, yeah, just like, keep it going.

But then also, I felt like it was weird because my name's Olivia. I'm like, that feels a little like... Right, right, right. Right, on the nose. You know? Yes. I do know two Rachel's married to each other. Oh, really? Yeah.

Yeah. Rachel and Rachel? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I don't know. They just, it just somehow works. They just do that is one of them, Rach, or are they both Rachel? I think they mostly go by Rachel. I mean, there's different ways. Like, my nickname is Ray. Yeah. I don't know what they do, like, at home or what their close friends.

Publicly, they both are definitely Rachel. I don't know, like, what happens, like, in their intimate circles. Well, because when you call their name, Rachel, they both are like. Yeah. I think it's pretty cute. Yeah. We were playing this game the other day of what would I rename my husband? Like what do they look like? Like Jeff? Like yeah. It just doesn't feel like. So what did you rename him? God, I couldn't figure it out. You didn't come up with anything? Really? Maybe it was like Nicholas or something. What? No. He is not like a. Like a Damien or like a. Do you know Jeff? I mean, not well. But yeah. Yeah, he feels like, like a, I don't know, like a cool guy name, like a James.

Oh, James is good. Yeah. He looks like a James. Yeah. Like Jeff, we always do go. My name is Jeff. Thanks everybody for tuning in today. Please, Caitlin, find the clip and show it.

It's Channing Tatum and it's so good. He's like, my name is Jeff. No. It's from some like movie where he plays in Cholo. It's really good. Okay. You guys. I quit.

Sidebar. I got to go. I'm leaving and I'm done. Jeff is a hard name. It's too common. You mean like it's too like generic. Yeah. Yeah.

It's like a chat. Yeah. It's Jeff. It's just Jeff. It's just Jeff. You know? What would you name him? I just told you.

Yeah, but what's his full name? You got like an MD on the end of there. Jeffrey Michael Eglor. Michael is his dad. With an MD. MD. So that makes it hot. It's like, it's like great.

That works. It all works. It all works. You need the full name. You could be like. Totally. I'm not even going to say it because I don't want to offend anybody out there named like No but like Ezekiel Pinkis MD and you're like okay well there's an MD exactly yeah totally

I actually love the name Herschel like do you feel like your name is you I used to do this all the time as a kid by the way like rename myself what did what was your name hers was jade yes I know wow yeah jade's great now I don't agree with my my child I want to know your choice I was my mom almost named me Kelly. Okay. And people just butchered Lara all the time. Like it was like Laura and Lara and I was always like having to correct. Yeah. And so 80s

Laura was like I could have just been named Kelly. And then there was like Beverly Hasnan 2 and O and the name was really cool. And I was like this could have been an easier life path. Now I'm like death to Kelly. That sounds like a terror. Like no, I'm much happier as Laura. But I don't think I've played this name, this game, this game recently. No, it's fun. Like, what would I be now? She likes to bring everything back. I got to think. What would you be? I think when I was little, I'm trying to remember.

Yeah. I want to say I was, I think I probably went Jesse. Oh, cute. Not Jessica. Jesse, specifically. No, I'm just being, you know, like what it was. Do you guys remember? I don't know if either of you had this game. There was a game. Was it called like date something? And there were cards. Girl talk. Oh my God, girl talk with my. Is that what it is? With the picture. Would the pictures of the men, the boys, the men. And they're like black and white, and they all had different names like Eric and Michael and whatever. And they were black and white photos of like these dudes that I guess were hot.

I don't know. I was probably like nine. Do you think this is girl talk? Maybe. I had girl talk for sure and I loved that game. Loved, lived for it. Was it that? It might have been in there.

We have to look it up and see if they had those like black and white indexed pictures of all the dudes. Hot date. Was that a hot date? Wait, was that the game? I think it was called Hot Date. That just came out of nowhere. I just short-circuited and went to another place.

Okay, we're going to look that up. We're going to. We'll be posting that later. Okay. I think my answer, by the way, I've decided it would be something unisex. Okay. Like a Charlie or like a Quinn or like something that could go either way. Yeah.

Just as I like enter into my paramedopausal, like, just want to like, you know, I don't know. She wants to shut it down. I do. I just want to be like masculine feminine in one. So I think if I had to rename myself, it would be something that could swing. Well, I feel like ever is the perfect name that's either way. That's true. We were actually only looking at unisex names.

I love that name. I love it. The second time around. Yeah. It's so good. Speaking of swinging. I'm just kidding. I'm like, oh wait, we could have a good swing.

I'm like, no. No, not at all. I just thought I had to, you know. she could never by the way if we're talking no she could never could you have could you it's like a loaded question now that I'm no longer married but in that relationship no it would have never flown right right in like another in relationship maybe yeah I kind of feel it for you I feel like you could do oh really I have like swing her energy yeah you're getting it's right great I'll take it. Listen, I'll take it.

Hey. You couldn't either, by the way. You think you could. I think I can, but I couldn't. You couldn't. She couldn't. Maybe that maybe I'm the same. I don't know. I mean, I could. Well, anyone could on one end of it. Yeah. My end, like, I could. Right, right. Obvious. He could not. But I couldn't give him to someone. Right. Yeah. No. You know? Yeah. But obviously anyone could do.

it on their end alone. Well, you asked me. I'm like, could I? Yes, I did. I didn't ask if you could cheat. Why, Olivia, yes, I could. Very happily. I thought when I was younger, I honestly gravitated more towards like, why define it?

And then I feel like society kind of wore me down or something. And I was like, no, we should define it. But like, I don't know. I think intuitively, I was like a little bit like. Why not? I don't know. We're young. Like, I think I always had the thought of like, well,

if we're together forever and we get like old and you want to experience something then you go for it. No, thank you. She's a hard note. I unsubscribe. No, I'm not interested. It does like a little bit exhausting if I'm being honest. Swinging. Yeah.

Okay. It's so tiring. It sounds physically and mentally. It sounds like my worst nightmare like getting out of bed and getting ready and then going to have to like sleep with someone else's husband. That sounds like so much work. I feel like the husband's swap is ick. I rather just go out and channel my sled energy in like a different arena. That's what I'm saying. That's different.

Like I don't want to run into someone's husband at like school pickup or something. Wow. Like that would be terrible. I'm sure that happens like all the time. Yeah. I wonder if it is happening. I want to know. Listen, if you're listening and you know of or are somebody or anybody that has experienced this, we really want to know.

Yeah. I wish I could just make like Rachel was like what do you want for my your birthday and I was like Can you please pleasure my husband? I've heard I shouldn't say this because I don't know it's like through the grapevine But I've heard that Buckley has a lot of swinging parents and it's like off the hook what? Yeah What do you do with your kids? You need to transfer your kids and like start with your kids You just like get a babysitter you're like okay guys we'll see you later. We're just going to go The thing is I'm sober.

So I'm like... Same. You're sober too? I am. Oh, I didn't know that. Yes. Did I know that? I don't know.

I guess we never talked. Why would it come up? Baseball? They met on the baseball field. They didn't be on the baseball. They weren't playing, though. I would swear I meet all my friends. Wolbe has really had quite the collection from baseball.

Yeah, it's a vibe. Yeah, no. It's, you could like take some mushrooms. No, I don't know. Yeah, it'd be hard to like... So wait, take us through it. sober how long? I've been sober actually I feel like I have to use the word sober

lightly. Like California's sober? Because I don't walk around and say I'm sober but I don't drink and I don't smoke weed and it's been a couple of years. It's been like maybe four years on the weed department and like two on the alcohol department. And what do you notice? I honestly was just getting like so well for alcohol I was just getting so hung over Yeah. Like, I don't know if it's like hormones or my body was just like, I am done. At first it was like, I had to give up like beer and wine and like certain things a long time ago. Then I could still have like some hard liquor. And then it was like, nope. I'd have like one drink. And it was like I had a fucking bender in Vegas. It was like the proportion of how I felt the next day. Yes. Was not at all like matched with how much I drank. And I was like, clearly I need to find another way to like. have fun and this isn't working for me right anymore was this while you were so married or this was after okay after yeah and I do think that like dating upticked the like

social drinking a lot more because you're going out and or even going out with girlfriends or whatever like you're just sort of like oh my god I have 50% of my life without kids and like to myself and you're like go out a lot more, at least in the beginning. And so I think I was like drinking socially a lot more. And that was also me beginning to realize like, but this isn't working. Like, you know, it wasn't like a time. It wasn't like it was ever a problem. It was just like this feels like crap. Right. So I stopped. That's amazing. Yeah. What about you? I just got 15 years. Amazing. Yeah. That's a very long time. It's a really long time. That's a big deal.

You know you're 15. Yeah, 15. Mazel tov. That's huge. But I too was having horrendous hangovers. Yeah. That were not proportionate to what I did. Yeah. I'd wake up being like, I need to die. Right. And then I'd be like, I had two glasses of wine. Right. You know. I'm jealous, like, of all my friends and my own family. Like, my mom, whatever, it's like, they can definitely like, you know, cut loose and they're fine. I'm just not. I'm, like, not built that way or something. No, me neither. So take us through. You've got a career. You've got two kids. You've gone through a divorce. And you've just recently gone through a diagnosis. So will you just take us through that whole picture? Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah. I'd say like, I guess like six months into filing for my divorce, I was diagnosed with breast cancer. And I may just preface this by saying that like I feel like I've had the most like lucky version of breast cancer.

Like I kind of joke that it's like I've got like bougie breast cancer like you know, it's like not. I think it just it this experience can come in so many different variations and I feel like extremely grateful. But I also think it's important to talk about this version of what it is. it's not always the like, you know, the images that we see in the media where you're like totally debilitated. Like there's 15% of women get breast cancer. So it's like, you know, that random woman next to you at Trader Joe's buying cheese might have breast cancer. It's like we're all, there's like these weird moments where I'd be like going down a water slide with my kid this summer and I'm like, and I have breast cancer. Like it's just, there's weird, you know what I mean?

So that's my, just prefacing that that's been my experience. But, Yeah, I think that like it's a weird time to get a diagnosis like that because speaking on the dating front, you're like a little bit when in a divorce and like your sexual reclamation chapter or you're at least like reclaiming your body as yours post kids. And there's a lot of like, you know, autonomy and like it's like you're no longer just like this, you know, breastfeeding. Yeah, you're not everybody else's. Yeah, and so I think I was really in this like, in the middle of sort of like getting my confidence back and getting my mojo back and like, you know, being like, yeah, I can be sexy and like I can have confidence and all those things when it hit. And so it's a little bit of like this thing where like your body becomes this like, like, this like casualty and also like a catalyst at the same. same time. And so it was like this like a little bit of this like disruption from within on my journey where I was like, whoa, no, you didn't get the assignment. We're on like, like,

slut era reclamation chapter. Like what is happening? And now it's this. And then you start to have to like unpack your breasts and all your thoughts about like all the prepack. Like all the prepack We're packaged stories that we tell ourselves about our boobs and the male gays and how they're like attached to our sexuality and our femininity. And who am I with or without them? And how do I, you know, because immediately when you get a breast cancer diagnosis, you jump into all these appointments, not only with like a breast oncologist, but with plastic surgeons. And immediately they're talking about reconstruction. And like, do you want to keep your breast? Do you want a mastectomy? Do you want a single mastectomy? Do you want a double mastectomy? Would you want implants? Would you want to go flat? Would you like all these different options? And it's very overwhelming. And you are sort of faced with like suddenly like composting all these ideas about like your body. And it's weird because the truth is it's like you don't need your boobs. Like if you're no longer breastfeeding a child, like our boobs of like they like had their employment and now they're retired. Kind of.

Right. They're like done. So it's like, obviously if someone was like, do you want a new arm? You're like, yeah, I need an arm. But it's like, do you need new boobs? Like not really. It's an aesthetic thing. It's aesthetic. Right. And so it's like, you know, when you're like a staunch feminist, like breaking out of like a system of marriage that wasn't personally working for me. And then I'm like, wait, like, am I going to just be like, where's the line for me? And like, my own body and it's just like suddenly your hit was so many questions. I don't know how much detail to go into. But much is we're comfortable with. Yeah. But so like initially, what should I just like start with like the biopsy and like? Yeah. Okay. Well, a lot of people don't know and like the process. Yeah. I've gone in to get mammogram now twice, but like I don't know what happens after that. Right. My mom had breast cancer. Okay. when I was a kid. And so I'm high risk.

So I'm on like a six-month alternate MRI mammogram schedule. Yeah. Just because of the percentage because of my mother. Right. So it's very close to like my family and like what she went through. So yeah. And I think it's important to talk about and like to know what you were saying. Like to steps and everything else.

And family history is such a huge part of it too. Like I have a friend who has the same who had the same pathology as me. And we were like, oh my God, we're twinning. Like we've, you know, got two inches. blah blah, blah, left boob, and she wound up having to get four rounds of chemo that's been really hard on her body because she has family history. So it's like when you do all the math and like type out the equation, it can be very different based off of like your genetics and your family history.

And so for me, there was no family history and there was no genetic predispositions, which I think is why I was so shocked. But I had an abnormal mammogram two springs ago, and I did the whole thing, like, more, you know, diagnostic mammograms and ultrasounds. And then they did a biopsy. And they were like, no, you just have extremely dense breasts, which it cracks me up every time. Like, that's the clinical term. Oh, yeah. Like, just extremely dense.

That's it. heard that so many times. So many times. I mean, yeah. I have dense breasts. Like, I hear so many people just have, yeah. Yeah, I've heard that a bunch. Right.

And to be honest, I never thought about what that meant until I started talking to other women. And I'm like, are your boobs like heavy? Like, and they're like, some are, some are like fluffier. You're like, feel. Yeah. You're like, nice to meet you. Yeah.

But like you never touch another woman's breast. You don't really like know where think about it. Yeah, I've never thought about it. I don't know what it. dense breast feels like. Right. So anyway, when I got another system. Like come over here. Totally. We should maybe like, no, educate ourselves like this is an extremely dense breast, which maybe puts you at a higher risk. Like just having extremely dense breasts already puts you at like, I think it's like 15 to 20 percent higher risk of cancer. But it's like you don't know that

or think about that or you're like, are my breast dense or I don't know. How would you know? Yeah. Right. And so when I, I had another suspicious mammogram. I kind of was like, oh, great, here we go again. It's the sequel where my insurance, like, charges me thousands of dollars, and I get, like, a bunch of really uncomfortable tests, and they're like, just extremely dense. You're fine. So I thought that's what was happening. But then this time, and again, like, did they miss it a year ago? Like, I don't know. But then this time, they called and they were like, no, you have, and this diagnosis changed. But They were like you have DCIS, never heard the term in my life.

It means ductal carcinoma in situ, which basically means you have cancer cells in your milk ducts, but they haven't spread. So it's contained. So it's basically equivalent to stage zero breast cancer. Best kind of breast cancer diagnosis you can get, but you still need to deal with it. Yeah. A lot of people with this diagnosis, if they have a family history of cancer, just jump straight to a mastectomy. Wow.

Because they're like, I'm not going to fuck around. Yeah. Like my mom, my aunt, whatever. I had no family history. So I was like, what's going on? And then there are even doctors and schools of thought primarily in Europe and stuff where they just like don't treat DCIS. So that was like a whole mind fuck? Head fuck.

Yeah. Because you're like, well, is America over treating this? Blah, blah, blah. But so most doctors pushed me to have a mastectomy because it's less liability. And it's you're eliminating your chance of recurrence by much more. And also my kind of breast cancer was hormone positive, which is another thing that, like, I feel like I've didn't really understand. Yeah, what does that mean?

So basically, like, cancer is either driven by hormone, so it's like estrogen progester and positive or it's not. It's better that you have a hormone positive cancer because you can control it more. Like, now I'm on estrogen blockers. So while the rest of the world's on HRT and looking all glowy, I'm, like, withering up with my estrogen blockers over here. Oh. But you can actually control it.

And dominant? Yes. So I think that like, and I've had other conditions that are like possibly as a result of too much estrogen. So now I'm almost wondering like have I always had. I'm estrogen dominant too. Just you are. Too much estrogen. Yeah.

And that might like connect to like not being able to metabolize alcohol as well. Oh, interesting. Or other things. That makes sense. Yeah. Like I've had a lot of uterine issues that are due to like too much estrogen. Yeah. Oh, interesting.

Yeah. You too? Dr. Jeff MD over there. he's been telling me that's why he put me on podestrone. Oh. Because he's like your estrogen dominant and we need to get whatever. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, you meet with all these doctors. Oh, wait, by the way, you guys, I have to tell you about when you get a biopsy, they put, and no one, I like didn't know this. I like showed up the first time and I was like, wait, what's happening? Like, come again? they put a titanium marker in your boob to like mark the spot where they've taken the tissue.

So if they ever have to go back in, it's there. So like a freckle? Like a permanent titanium charm. In your boo. In your boo. How do they get it in there? With the, they like implant it with like a little, like a needle. This, when I went for my first MRI, they're like, we need to give you.

put the IV in. I know. You need to put the IV on. It's a contrast MRI. Yes, yes. Where they put, like, liquid into your boobs, but I didn't know anything about it. So it's like the same thing. You're getting like a titanium like marker. Totally. And I'm getting like whatever fluid this is, like inside my body intravenously. Yeah, the high contrasts MRI. It's so yeah. Yeah. Freaky. Okay, sorry. You have a tight. So you have. You know it's embarrassing. So you go off in the metal detector. Yeah. I know. What? I know. I know. I know. I took so much lorazepam when I got that that I didn't even know if I had the high contrast. What is that like an anxiety blocker?

It's like the Parker Posey White Lotus like it's yeah. Larazepam. See, I'm so scared to do it again. It freaks me out. Anyway. No, totally. All of it. All of it.

So you have a titanium. So, well, they got removed. But the first one was a heart. If I hadn't had, I'm sorry. Surgery. If you get to pick your charm. Like they give you options? Like, what?

What is happening? So I wish you can choose. They should let you choose. No. You get to choose your charm? No, but you know if it was a man they would choose. Shit. Wait.

So they would be like they'd get like a whole like a box would open. Yeah. Big dick. Yeah. Fishing rods. And they would like they would like design their own. And like they would have like their name. You know, they would like it would be like all the choices.

Yeah. For sure. So they just told you we put a chart. Yeah. Because we'll be implanting a heart. I had no idea this was going to happen. Like, no one told me ahead of time. Like, we'll be implanting a titanium heart.

And at first of that it was kind of cute. I was like, it's kind of cute. Like a heart above my heart because it was like literally above my heart. But I, you know, you don't know that you're going to be like walking around with a piece of like metal in your. No, I know. Like you go off a metal detector? You don't go off in the metal detector. My kid was calling me titanium titty though, like very loudly at the airport.

He was like, she has. titanium in her boot making sure everybody knew and I'm like it's okay like we're not going to go off from the thing but then the second time around I was like so do I get a heart again and they're like no it's too confusing so I was like wait what are can I choose and they were again we're like no and so I asked what the shapes are and so it's a bar a heart a rod which feels very similar to a bar Yeah, I'm like, what's the different? It's giving bar. It's giving bar. It's giving bar. And a top hat.

What? Yes, thank you. I'm like, hello, my baby. Yes. It's just like a game of operation. It really is. What do you think? A man.

For sure. And I'm really glad I didn't get the top hat. I'm like kind of disappointed you didn't. I am too. I know. I'm literally the alien from spaceball. Yeah, no, I mean, it's like, it's just so. specific, right?

Yeah. No, it's not like a triangle. Oh, you didn't pick. Not a circle. Not a triangle. I didn't get to pick. I got a bar. But what is it?

What's the difference between the fucking bar? I think the rod is like a cylindrical. Yeah. And the bar is like a crow bar? Like basically a rectangle. A crow bar. She's like, I want the crow bar. I think it's basically like a rectangle.

Okay. Whatever. This is so, I've never heard of any of this. Bruce is like a toilet paper tube. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. Oh my God. Yeah, no. So I had two of them next to each other. Like, boom, boom. Just like hanging out, like, my own little, like, Tiffany's collection. And I, no one tells you that this is going to happen. And I guess, like, you can just keep collecting a bunch of different charms.

You don't feel it. They're very tiny. They're very tiny. But if you were to get another mammogram, like, you see it. You fucking Pandora's in there. I can see it. I've seen my images afterwards. Yeah, exactly. It's like a whole Pandora charm. bracelet. No, I could see my images and you can see it's like, like these little pieces in your boob. And they're there until you die unless you get a mastectomy. Yeah, unless you, yeah, or a lumpectomy. Or a lumpectomy. That's what my mom had. Yeah. So yeah, anyway, then it's like, it's just, you just get thrown into this whirlwind of appointments because all of a sudden it's like, it's just urgent. And they're like, you need to meet with all these doctors. And then if you're like me in Taipei, you're going to be like, I'm going to meet with like three oncologists. And

three breast surgeons and three radiologists and like every you know just because you don't know who you're going to drive with and like all these things and I think because it was happening in the middle of my divorce it was like you just don't know who that like person is to take to all the appointments and it's so much information and it's such an intimate experience like but it was so discombobulated and it's just sometimes there are things where like you don't bring the It's like you bring your person. But there is no plus, you don't, I don't know who like, like when they're like, who's coming to your surgery. I'm like, I don't know.

You know? It's fine. My mom came and all worked out. But it's a little bit of a regression when you're like, you know, in your 40s. Yeah. And you're like, my 70 year old mom is going to go. And then they start asking questions. You're like, shut out.

Yeah. And then you're like literally crossing out your emergency contact that's like all. in the hospital like forms from like previous stuff you're like no no not him think no you can yeah you know you can just remove it entirely it's like so awkward um so yeah no that's not dramatic at all it actually makes sense that that would provoke a lot of anxiety because with the doctors at least someone has some information on something right right you're going to me mediation, it's kind of all a big unknown, right? Totally.

And you're like when you just sort of feel like you're, it sounds bad, but like, like my self-preservation is just like already kicked up into like such high gear because of the breast cancer stuff. And then you go into something where you feel like you're fighting so hard to like protect. what like the life you've built and like all these things and like your kids and so it just like it feels very like triggering you know what I mean because you're already in like a high self-preservation mode I have a question on that and it might be too personal no no it's fine but it did it ever make you want to go backwards and just be like never mind let's just go home pretend this divorce

never happened it's a great question no okay and And I think that as hard as it's been dealing with breast cancer in the middle of a divorce, I think that it brought me clarity that I needed actually because, you know, they say like, you know, you're only as good as you are at like the hardest moment or whatever. I'm butchering the saying, but it's something like that, you know, or they say like, go travel with your partner or whatever, like wait till like. stuff gets hard to really see, like, how people show up. For sure.

And I, granted, we weren't together when the diagnosis hit, but we're still in a contractual life agreement with these two children that we share. And, you know, I think, like, seeing how it all went down, I was like, no, this is the clarity that I needed. And maybe in some, you know, this is like a dark thought, but maybe it's, you know, it's like a dark thought, but maybe I needed that. Do you know what I mean? Like I needed to really like see people's colors a little bit clearer in order to be like, yeah.

Yeah. Because I think that. I think the truth is if he had been really like, oh my God, this changes how I, you know, feel I'm going to be really like warm and like there for you. It probably would have messed with my head. So you were grateful that way more. Yeah, I got clarity. Yeah. That's a big deal.

Yeah. I mean, clarity is kind of the biggest deal on all fronts. Totally. Because I think most of our suffering comes from lack of clarity. Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah, especially me. I'm a very indecisive person, you know?

I couldn't even, and speaking of, you have to make a million decisions when you get breast cancer. Because they're like, how do you want to do this? And you start talking to everybody and everybody has an opinion and everybody loves the choice they made. And everybody is the best. doctor and everybody is the best plastic surgeon and oh but if you should go to this person they don't take insurance but you'll be so happy and it's like what it's so many just choices um and it's really hard to like know the right path i think especially if you're like an indecisive person and it's and when you have a kind of cancer where it's not like oh my god this is stage four that we're

going to be extremely aggressive, you are presented with maximum amount of choices, which is a gift and also overwhelming. So that's how it first presented, but you said the diagnosis that changed. Yes. So I wound up opting for a lumpectomy over, but at this was like, like, I hemmed and I hawed and I like pulled out my hair over the decision. Most doctors told me. me to just go and get like a fulmasectomy. And it's not like, and people don't get it. They're like, girl, I would get a boob job if I could. Like free boob job, great. It's not though because they take out all your breast tissue and it's just like skin. And then the implants are there. So it doesn't look the same as just like a regular breast augmentation. It looks like implants because there's

no breast tissue left at all. And so I opted for. And so I opted for. for the lumpectomy where they go in and they take out the cancerous part and followed by radiation. But then the only time I cried in the beginning was like when I first found out and I was like in a cabin with my whole extended family like my sister and my dad. And I literally was like didn't want my kids to hear me cry. So I blasted the blow dryer. This is like such a mom moment. I was like blowdrying my hair for like five minutes and crying. And then I didn't cry at all.

And then when I got the diagnosis after my lump act to me, I knew something was wrong because I was in a work meeting. And I was getting these notifications on my phone that was like, your telehealth appointment with your oncologist is like, you know, set for 12, like of that day. And I'm like, well, I don't have an appointment with the doctor. And they were like, log in to check in for. or telehealth? And I'm like, what is happening? Like, I don't have an appointment with the oncologist. And then I'm like, oh, my God, it's the results. And they want to, like, tell me in person or something. So I log into this appointment that, like, I didn't schedule. And she's like, hi. So I have your lumpectomy pathology. And I was just like, it's bad. And she was like, so it had spread. And it's now stage one invasive. And it was out, you know,

it was outside of your ducks and we have to up your your treatment plan and it made me feel so grateful that I didn't choose the like super holistic like woo-woo path being like you know what I'm going to be like Scandinavian and like not do anything about this stage zero cancer because it had spread and I had no idea and it was like worse than I even thought so and that was I was I think the first time I actually like cried and like felt what I needed to feel. And then so from there, we just like went back to the oncologist and the radiologists and did all these tests. And I narrowly escaped chemo, which I am like so insanely grateful for because that's the cancer that you see about in the movies and in TV where it gets like really gnarly and you lose your hair and you feel like

shit and it's so hard. And I just, my heart goes out to every single one of my friends that are going through that, especially as moms with kids. It's like, it's just such a toll on your body. So, but again, it was like my family history. All these things come into play and you get a score, like an SAT score. You get a score on like your chance of reoccurrence and like all of it. And my score put me in like just shy of like needing all those things. So I was like, okay, I'm not going to. And then, but you know, it's weird because if someone told me I had stage one invasive cancer from the beginning, if that's what the biopsy read, I would have had a mastectomy. Right. So interesting. And so it's like this weird sliding doors thing because I'm like, well, now I'm not going to go back under the knife. Like I just got this, you know, breast reduction chunk pulled out. So we just upped the radiation plan.

And the whole team agreed that that was like, okay. And the way to go. And I did radiation, which is like a whole weird thing, but really like doesn't hurt at all. It's all just about the side effects. For me, I had a weird reaction. Like, of course I did. I just feel like I'm always the 1%. Like they're like, well, it's not really a thing that happens.

But it's not unheard. of. I'm like, cool. My boob that I had the radiation on swelled. It was like one boob it was like I had a baby and one was nursing and the other one didn't get the memo. It was like two completely different sizes

for like dating scene, hi. Right, right. And I have a story about that too. So I was like walking around for weeks with one boob like three times the size of the other. And it was the summer and I would like try to put on like a bathing suit and like be with my kids at the beach. I'm like

Like it was so weird And they were like I guess your body just wanted to protect from the radiation rays by like kind of like reacting reacting by like swelling creating like fluid retention around it It was just the way my body

reacted It's still more swollen than the other one Ironically I'm like I kind of like the size of the radiated swollen boob Better now that it's gone down I'm like this is the Pinterest boob Over here The like the cancer scorn

around my nipple. It's like still like the size. It's like preferable, but it's gonna keep changing. It's like still tender and it hurt from being swollen. It was like, you know, your kid would like run and hug you and you're like, ah! Like, not, not the left one, not the left one. Do they know you were going through? Yeah, I'm terrible at like keeping secrets. And so they knew everything. I mean. I know they were calling out the titanium tidy. Yes, exactly. And how did you come to that? Because I know. that's a really hard decision to make, whether you include them in the conversation. I'm just one of those moms that has always been very candid, maybe to a fault about what women go through in their bodies from like even like my period or like, you know, all the different things. You know, and I would like breastfeed very openly in front of like, you know, my older kid with the younger one or. They know about ovulation cramps. Like, they know about all these things. And a part of me just, like, wants them to be, like, the most, like, conscious little boys in the world that, like, know about these things. So when I had this, I didn't want to then, like, shield them.

I mean, of course, you shield them from anything that, like, you're scared. Right. Although, honestly, Leo, my older one definitely knew at one point that I was, like, having a hard time. And this is so, like, sad. I feel like he's, like, being the past. parent but he was like do you want to cuddle in my bed because that's what I offer to him when he's upset to be like climbed up to his like top bunk bed and he like held me and he's like it's going to be okay I know he's going to like be in therapy how he had to like you know

parent parent his mother no it's so sweet but he's going to be such a he was yeah supportive partner to whoever he winds up I hope so but yeah I mean they they see the scar and They've like seen, you know, how it got like really swollen during radiation. They saw me like as bandaged after the biopsy, ace bandaged after the lumpectomy surgery. You know, because I was like very slow and like it's black and blue and bruised. Like it looks like you got punched in the tit multiple times. Like it's hard to hide that from little boys that you live with. boys are rowdy too. And they have like no like my boys have like no boundaries. I'm like they're just like

in my space and in my bed and like in my bathroom. Same. And you're like you have your own bed. You have your own toilet. And they're like no, yours is better. Like it's just constantly. I feel like they would crawl inside me if they could. Yeah. So but you're like speaking on the dating thing. I mean, as I said, I'm definitely like boy sober now. But I had one date after my biopsy. that went so south. Oh, no. That I was like, I am definitely not dating during this chapter because it, like, traumatized me. I, um, this is really embarrassing to tell.

But I had met this guy and we had a few dates before all of this. And then it was like started to overlap the, like, suspicious mammograms, ultrasounds. And then we did the biopsy and I was out of town. And then we had this, like, date lined up at his place. where it felt like it was like the next step physically. And, yeah, exactly. And but my boob was like black and blue and like, like kind of yellow. It was like treating.

It was like multi-colored. It was so bad. And there was like still these like stare strips like on it like near the nipple where they had like taken the sample. Yeah. No, no. Did he know all this is going on? No.

No. I hadn't said anything. Okay. But I was like. I'm just going to like, like, come clean and be like, since we met, I've been dealing with this and now I had this biopsy and I have this diagnosis. But, like, at that time I was, like, thinking, like, I'd probably get a mastectomy because that's what the doctors were telling me. It would just be the cleanest, most symmetrical, aesthetically pleasing thing to, like, do. And so I just, like, had this moment of, like, sheer honesty.

And I was like, but it's great. Like, I want my boobs to, like, feel. Like, these nerve endings might be gone. Like, go to town, like, worship them. Like, give them their own, like, MDMA and Ibiza moment. Like, let's just, like, love my boobs tonight. And it, like, totally backfired. What?

Wait, did you say that day? Basically, yes. Yes. I basically was just like, let's make it fun and messy, vulnerable and honest. I'm dying. I love it. And he was like... No thanks.

Yeah. Like, he was like, that doesn't sound invitational. And I was like, invitational. What? Why? Because it's like in my messy female gaze because it's like I'm like, touch my boobs for me. I don't know if they'll be here in a month. Like it was like I took my boobs away from them being there for him.

Right. Oof. Do you know what I mean? And I don't think he like. He was like, that's not sexy. It wasn't sexy. He's like, no, like it's. Yeah.

And so we launched into this like whole debate about like the male gaze versus female gays and when you get my like patriarchal like feminist shit started you guys it's like it's like the cat's out of the bag and all of a sudden i'm just like oh no oh my god and we just wanted to like a full political debate about like whether or not like boobs are like there for like men or for women and like if i if you take it away from like it being about the dudes that it's like no longer sexy and what like it just it turned into a whole argument on that a whole debate And I was like, I even, this is so embarrassing, but I think I was feeling so fragile from everything that was happening that I like got a little bit teary. And he was like, oh my God, you're crying.

He was like, I'm sure he told all of his friends like, this girl like totally lost her shit and got like teary on a date. Yeah, but now you get to tell everybody what he did. And his first and last name is. Exactly. But I was like, I got in the car and I was like, I'm clearly not in a good headspace. for like this. Yeah, but like you said when the, what is it? Like when the rubber hits the road, you see what people are made us. Yes. And again, that was another opportunity for you to see like, oh, not my dude. Totally. Because another guy could have been there for that. Right. Totally.

Yeah. I agree. I mean, my therapist would always say rejection is God's protection. And like whether you believe in God or whatever it is, it's just the saying. And it makes sense. right? Right. Just being protected from something that you should not have explored. For sure, because that would have come out in some other facet or something. Like, there would have been some other thing where like, you're like, oh, this is not a line. No, whatever. I just happened to be about my boobs and about me confessing. You were like, I was being funny. I know. I was like, look, I'm like so vulnerable and isn't it like so hot that I'm so honest? And it was like, nope. He's like, you realize I'm a man. Yeah. He's like, no. This is like a lot of.

of pressure and like messy and weird and like not what I want. It was like, it did not go out. Have you written about this? I, yes and no. Yes. I don't know. We'll see. I have a script that I'm working on, hopefully. I would like to alkalize some of these like very messy experiences into some kind of like film or or storytelling. Because I do think that like, you know, we see a lot of stories about like dying. cancer, but there's not a lot of stories of like living with cancer. And the truth is, is like this was like a challenging thing that I went through and it brought up a lot of feelings. And I felt like I had to like catabolize the patriarchy and all these like feelings that I've had about my boobs being like a sense of self-worth and like my value and like feeling

like, well, can I be okay if like there are different sizes and can I be okay if one is smaller than the because I take a trunk out and like what am I what can I let go of especially like because you're letting go of things in a divorce too you're letting go of this idea of like also being chosen in a divorce like I think that I would use the word husband and it it sort of with the subtext was like see someone liked me I got married I got chosen do you know what I mean it's like it's like I don't think about it but I think that when you let go of those things you have to just own that you're like it's like you in the world and you don't need these labels to define you and so I think like dealing with like the breast cancer stuff on top of it only

pushed me to further be like what do I need and not need to have like my own sense of self-worth like with all of that going on the divorce the cancer did you go through depression I did not go through any depression, but I think that, like, I've definitely had these moments in my life where I'm like, you, I am a straight-A student and I'm like very type A, and I feel like I worked really hard to build the life that I wanted. And that involved being married and it involved being a mom. And it involved being a working mom. and being healthy, obviously, and like all these things. And then all of a sudden you have these moments where you're like, what the fuck is my life? Like these moments where you're like, like I said, like you're like toggling between divorce mediation and oncology and like, you know, all these things.

And you're like it feels like the ground is falling out from underneath you. Like I've definitely had these moments where I felt like, you know, in Alice in Wonderland and she's just like falling and she's like, down, down, down. She's like muttering to herself. And she's like, there's no bottom and just like keeps bottoming. And like there's these moments where like you think she's at bottom and then she keeps going. I'm like, that's what it feels like. And so I think there's like a massive rebuilding that I've had to accept. Like this life I thought I belt is not. And that's okay. And I have to like have radical acceptance over that. And also deconstruct these ideas that like that was the way or that that was it. Maybe it wasn't. Maybe there's something so fucking beautiful over here that I haven't gotten to yet. Or maybe like I am not meant to be married.

Or maybe that's like a system that like works for some but not for every. but we drink this Kool-Aid that that's what you're supposed to have and like all of these things. And I feel like sometimes it has to get really messy and fall apart in order for you to like build something else that's more honest and more like connected to like who you really are. Yeah. Like I know this sounds so cheesy, but I was thinking about this actually on the way over here for some reason. but that like I do think that like when I got married I have no it was like it was the right person at that time but the truth is like I didn't know who my brand was and I like no that sounds so bad and I'm using the word brand in like a holistic spiritual term like I just didn't really know what I was about like I was like yeah you know let's have fun and like let's do like you know let's be creative but it was all very generic like I feel like I feel like like I know what makes me tick and what I'm passionate about and like what I care about in the

world and like the kinds of people I want to be around energetically so much more now. And maybe I'm a late bloomer because like I'm experiencing this in my 40s. I think that's what it is. It really hits in your 40s. Yeah. The clarity again. Yeah. Of like what you want to surround yourself with, be around.

put the energy into all of it. Right. I think that's on brand regardless of the divorce or diagnosis. Yes. I think that's something that happens in the 40s. Yes. Where you look and you do, you know, an inventory and go, what is this? Yeah.

Like, is this where I want to put my time in energy? I think also coming to the point of like time is fleeting. Right. We only have so much. Totally. where we used to be asked at this age to start slowing down. Yeah. I think that there is an uptick now in us going, no, no, no, no, I'm just getting started

in whatever sense that means of like building now from this place of actual wisdom because you've lived through these experiences. Totally. And like I don't want to, I think all of it makes you not want to settle, whether it's like leaving a marriage that like wasn't fulfilling or like having like a breast cancer. diagnosis I mean I now live with 10% reoccurrence hormone positive cancers do have a higher you know they have a high reoccurrence rate and like I'm on these drugs that are like will dampen that reoccurrence rate but like that's a different way of walking through life than it was a year ago you know it's like a year ago I didn't

have that now I have that the cancer's out and I'm so grateful thank you doctors and yet that reoccurrence is a cloud that like hangs over me but I don't I don't want to see it that way I want to see it as like I want to like enjoy my kids and like really choose who I spend my time with 100% and like make the projects I want to make and like travel where I want to travel but you know I am doing it I feel like from like a bottom of a well because it's like so depleting like divorce and cancer together. If you want to like like a PSA on like how to like go broke, it's like definitely do those things together. Sure. Combine medical bills and lawyer bills and like you'll just like drain your assets to

nothing. Like it's a gnarly place to be. And I joke, I'm like baby Jessica at the bottom of the well like thirsty and like I'm like help me out. But at the same time like dropping down to like Ground Zero can also be a really like refreshing place to be because you're like starting over. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't want to take anything for granted. Right. You know. And for career, what's your biggest thing you're focusing on now? So I'm working on a film that's supposed to shoot this month. Shooting this month. I'm just like worried that we're going to have to push. But it's a it's a dark, road trip with the reproductive rights angle. And I just want to keep telling stories that are like in the female gays that are featuring

women's stories and that are using comedy as a way in to talk about some of the harder stuff. Like bringing comedy and humor to more unexpected topics to more challenging topics, often around like a women's experience, a woman's body, a woman's, you know, whatever. it might be, there's so many things that I think that like we experience and I just, I don't want to tell anything that doesn't have like a voice or a point of view, you know, but I want to bring all my background of like comedy and humor into that because I think that's how we alchemize like the hard shit. That's how we get through. Like, I think the best thing we can do as a storyteller is to like tell stories that like push against that and disrupt some of that like status quo and some of

those stereotypes and humor reaches a bigger audience it just does yeah and humor there hasn't been a moment in any female's life that they've typically at least from my experience we've walked through a lot of life together and no matter what there's humor in it in the darkest times and it's usually brought on by the person going through it. Yes. You know, that will diffuse it with humor and that craves and needs that and don't want to just be like swallowed into the darkness. There's so, I mean, I felt like I was like lobbing jokes at like every single doctor's appointment and they were just like, this isn't your stand-up set. What is happening? But I'm like juggling implants, like making all kinds of jokes like, you know,

And, but it's just my way of, like, processing. Right. I'd be the same. Yeah. Yeah. At one point, like, I remember for the surgery, they were like, we have a therapy animal program. And I was, like, amazing.

Let's focus off the fact that, like, I don't really have, like, a proper plus one here. And I'm, like, a sad divorce with no emergency contact. Give me all the animals. And, of course, I picked an animal that had recently died. And then I'm, like, all these jokes about, like, me, taking the dead therapy animal and they're like, you're okay, but it's like, it's just if you don't, you have

you know, like, yeah, no, you have to cope through comedy. Like, what else is there? You're like, of course, I don't know. Yeah. I also want to like, I think tell stories where these characters are dealing with things like breast cancer,

but it's not the main story. Right. Because like, wouldn't it be great to just normalize that like you can have these chronic conditions or these diseases and it's something that like you deal with, but like you also something that like you overcome and it doesn't take over the entire storyline or life because that isn't what happened with me. It was like I juggled and managed surgery and radiation and hormone suppressant therapy and all of these things while also like going to like Little League and like seeing, you know, seeing my ex and like you all. all the things. It's like, that's life. Like, that's also a version of breast cancer and all the

things. And that's why I like that you came and talked about it today is really exposing us to a different version than we're used to hearing. Yeah. And also, I think it brings a great amount of awareness of even when your first diagnosis was one thing. Yes. And then it later turned out to be another thing. I think that's a big thing. It's a big thing. It's a big thing. And it's also like, had you not gone, we don't know what that diagnosis would have been. Right. Right. And so how often is it recommended for a woman to go?

Do you know? Once a year. Once a year. But if you're high risk every six months. And the thing is, I had actually, was going every six months ever since that first scare. And they didn't, they didn't see anything. on the ultrasounds, like, at all. It's like it was only visible on the mammogram, which is another thing that people should

be aware of. Yeah. A mammogram every year. Yes. Well, they recommend it. Is it at 40? Once a year? No.

I think it's every year. I don't even know. I don't know. I mean, I just know I'm different because of my mom, who, by the way, was also going through her divorce. Really? I wanted to ask what her experience was if you're comfortable. Oh, yeah.

So she had a lumpectomy. Okay. As well. I mean, I was only nine when she went through it. it. Right. My knowledge of it is a little more like the kid going through it. And my mom is queen of making sure everyone's okay and that we think she's okay. You know what I mean? Like nothing's wrong and it's all good. So that was our experience with it. Like I don't have a scary relationship with cancer. Right. And she was on a spiritual journey at the time where she was going to see a certain person in India who was like a

guru and she, you know, she believed like it helped heal her and the alkaline diet and everything else. So hers was a lumpectomy and she didn't have chemo or anything like that since she was able to. Did she have radiation or anything? She may have had like maybe one, I don't know. If it was radiation, maybe it was like very minimum. Right, right. Very minimal. But yeah. So at nine you're like watching this and your mom's just making you feel okay. Yeah, but that is interesting because it was at the same time. The divorce. You know, I listen, I mean, I no one no one will know and you're married to a doctor but I do feel like the body keeps score you know and like that's yes yeah and I do I have wondered many times like is it a coincidence

because like I'd been separated for two years before I even filed for the divorce so I was already in the mess and the heartbreak and the stress and the change and single parenting and all of those things. Yeah. When my first suspicious mammogram hit and then it evolved into this. And it's like, I don't know, you know, it's like, did. I think everything is connected, but her mom was a huge Luis Hay fan. She turned me on to her.

And I think that through that circumstance, she really gained a lot of spiritual insight and a lot of taking ownership. of her thoughts, her stress, you know, all of those kind of things. So I can't imagine, I don't know how I think everything is connected. It seems like it not. Yeah, it just was like it felt so almost like comically obvious. Like, oh, of course. And it's like literally like right above my heart on my left boom. And I'm like, is it like heart heart break that like rotted and it's like a little ball of cancer. It's like, no, but it is. It's a heartbreak and stress. It would be different, I guess, if it was like here, but it was like right above my heart. And I'm like, I get it. Like, I've, like, I need to like de-stress and like release. Although, you know, I've tried to tell myself, like,

if this is true and there's this mind-body connection, it's been surgically removed. So I've had like eternal sunshine of the spotless boob now. And I've like taken out the heartbreak. And I've, like, surgically incised it and I'm now clearly. Here you go. All clear. It makes sense to do a... Voice sober but maybe not for long.

Right. What? What? Boy sober but maybe not for long. Oh, I thought you said voiceover, not for long. I was like, oh, no, but, Rachel. Oh, geez. Boy sober.

I've never heard that. I know it's good. I've never been that. You know what, though? I haven't either. And that's why it's so good that I'm. doing it because the truth is is I always had like yeah something yeah a boyfriend whatever since I mean I was a late bloomer I like didn't have my first kiss till I was 16 what I know you guys

I'm so embarrassed don't tell anyone except this is everyone's listening um so late but then from that point on it was like the overlap of like one person da da da da da da and there was always like this sounds bad but even like someone on the backburn you know it was like well Well, if I break up with so-and-so, I've always had that chemistry thing with that guy from the play. Like, there was always a thing. Yeah. And then I got married. And then immediately after we separated, I had been so thirsty and, like, starved of, like, affection and, like, being seen that I just, like, dove right into the dating scene.

and like, so this is the first time I've been like just really like celibate and like total like I'm good. The healing era, I guess, like physically, emotionally in and out. So, but I think I needed it. I think I need to just be like, no. Yeah. I think it's great. And it started before the diagnosis too.

Yeah. I wasn't really dating and then there was that one guy. One guy. And that was like, oh, maybe. Nope. And I was like back to back into my little shell, like, oh. Yeah. Yeah. So. Wow. You're going to be coming with a fresh, clean slate. That's right. And a clarity of who you are and what you want and all of it.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's so cool. And I think it's so cool that you've shared your whole experience and journey with us. Yeah. I mean, listen, I feel really lucky. Like it's almost embarrassing sharing my story because I'm like it's like such a. elite form of the breast cancer experience, but I also think this is a very common journey. Like your mom and I, it seems like we had a similar trajectory. I have to ask her what the actual diagnosis is. And I think that it's good to normalize that you don't have to feel like the world is ending if you get a breast cancer diagnosis. There's so many different pathologies and grades and treatments and options.

And you caught it at the right time. I think it's important. Yes. Early detection is so big. If you put it off or like, oh, I'm fine. I don't have like family history. I'm okay. Right.

That doesn't mean anything anymore. I got tested for the Brockagee. Yeah. I didn't have it. Same. I don't have any of it. Family history. Mm-mm.

No. No. So it's really important. And is October breast cancer awareness month? It is. Yeah. It's. Yeah.

So October is breast cancer awareness month. So it's good that we're, we're having this conversation. It's very timely and topical. And at the same time, I will say that, like, this thing kind of tends to happen in October where everything gets pink washed. And it's like, we suddenly hear all about breast cancer and, like, brands do, like, a kickback to nonprofits and stuff.

And then it sort of disappears. And so I think, like, the real work is continuing the conversation, obviously, like, 12 months out of the year versus just, like, having a big. be like a moment. Yeah. Yeah. Love it. And you're sitting with the pink. I am. I didn't even do that on perfect. No. Thank you so much. Thank you guys. Thank you so much. I haven't talked about this. Wow. Publicly at all. So thank you for giving me a space. Yeah. And holding space for me to share my experience. We're really happy you did. And I think it's going to help a lot of people. And it's definitely got me thinking

Oh I still have my thing like I just went I just went but I think I've gone every other year I feel like it Maybe I need to up it to every year we got to figure it out guys Right the other thing is sorry this is one last thing But when you're saying it your kids know I think that like

Bringing your kids into these conversations Like early is good too just for them to like understand that this is like a of like, you know, their parents, their parents' health because it is 15% of women are going to deal with some kind of breast cancer. And we wound up going to the Grand Teton's in between my surgery and radiation. And I didn't, Leo was just like determined to go and I didn't know why. He was obsessed with the Grand Teton's. And we get there. And we find it on the first day that the Grand Teton's means the Great Tittons in French. And I was like, you know, Oh my God. It was like my India with your mom. I was like I'm here in the land of the great titty.

Of the great titty. And like Leo was like so into it. He was like this is your like restoration. That's like here we are in the land of the great titty for you to like be like to heal. And so. It's so sweet of these boys to like love and care about your body and their mom. I know. And I feel like take a way the fact that like boobs are supposed to be just completely sexualized like it's also just a part of our it's a part of the body yeah they feed the babies yeah elliot asked me last night what it was like getting my period for the first time what yeah and i was like well because we're they were watching a movie i don't know if it's what is the one with the panda red panda red panda and it's about a girl getting her period right and so he was like what was that like was it painful did you feel weird

like what was your experience? Yeah. I was like, that's such a cool question. Absolutely. Yeah. I was like, it was horrible. But I took him through it. And I was like, it really wasn't scary for me.

Like I knew it was coming. I had older sister. Yeah. It didn't hurt. I was actually excited. I mean, he did like a double take. He was like, why? And I was like, because it meant I was going to start growing boobs.

And like, it just was like a new journey in a new chapter. And he was like, oh, interesting. but I thought it was cool of a boy to be interested in that. And I was like, let's talk about it. Yes. You know? Very cool. Yep.

And we'll end on that. Let's talk about it. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you both. We're back. We're back.

We're back. In the outro. In the out. In the out. To make an apology. Well, what is the apology? People get annoyed when there's no outro and we need the people to know what we care as much as they do. Okay.

That's nice. Does that feel like a lie? Okay. No, it feels right in my heart. Where do you, where is that? I don't have. It's, do you remember, was it the Care Bears movie where like, Like, Professor Coldheart had a heart.

It was like this big. No, maybe I'm thinking of the Grinch. Just kidding. Don't listen to me. Two sizes too small. Yeah. I love the Grinch so much. The Jim Carrey version.

Your boys were obsessed with that. Obsessed. I know. Did I have a crush on the Grinch? That was one of the first DVDs I got. Really? Remember your first DVD? I still.

have a large collection of DVDs hiding in my cabinets. Keep it for a bit. Yeah. And like growing up my dad was like the pioneer of laser discs. Like we had so many. And I would watch newsies over and over. Yeah. And Cry Baby.

Oh, crybaby is such a good movie. It's such a good movie. I got to watch it. I don't know. Have you never seen it? I don't believe so. I don't really feel like it's up your alley. I like Johnny.

Why? Well, maybe. I don't know. Leah and I have been having fun going through like 90s. Yeah, okay. Maybe Leah will like it more than I will. We've been having fun going through like 80s and 90s movies. It's been a nice little, I wouldn't say routine.

It's not like, okay, it's 6 p.m. Time for a 90s movie. But there has been an uptick and stuff like that for us. Another VHS DVD memory for me is, my parents got a Chevy Astro van like in 2000 something and the big selling point for it was that it had a VHS like a compartment on the side because there was like a three by three inch TV and you could put a VHS in there but we got it the year that like DVDs became really popular oh that sucks so we have like just whatever limited amount of VHS is that we owned and so I I feel like we did a lot of reps of Eddie Murphy's Dr. Doolittle on trip. That's so cute. I remember my dad made the VHS of all the John Hughes movies.

Fun. But all the commercials were on it. Oh, that's even better. Because we'd tape it off of the TV. That would be amazing to watch now. I know. I wish I still had. I had my dirty dancing VHS and I can still remember.

You know how I had the tape and you would handwrite what was on it. Yep. And I could see Dirty Dancing, like, how it was written. I played that to the, like, to its last leg, for sure. I'm actually, like, now taking Breyer back to, like, basics. Like, you know, I've talked about the landline. I love that, by the way. Yeah, I'm, thanks.

And thanks. I'd like to take credit for the millions of people doing it. But I got her, for her birthday, her birthday's coming up. We are getting her, like, a CD cassette boombox. like old school 90s. Yes. So I've started her collection. There's a really cool shop.

Anyway, and they have VHS tape, like tapes there too. They have all old school things. I should actually give them a shout out. I'm going to look up the name before I. That's fun. Say it wrong. Don't you remember, like, being in your room with your boom box and, like, I feel like we all did this. It's like you'd shut the door and be there by yourself, listen to a whole album and dance in the mirror.

Like literally lip sync and dance in the mirror four hours. It was the best. I miss it. Canterbury Records in Pasadena is a shop on Colorado in Pasadena. Canterbury Records and it's like super old school cassette tapes, CDs, vinyl, VHS. It's pretty cool. That's awesome. I'll check that out.

That sounds amazing. Yeah. You know what I've been into lately? What's that? is I've been listening to 90s grunge rock when I drive. Wait, give me a song. Black hole son won't you come? Like smashing pumpkins.

Yeah. Pearl Jam, Nirvana. Like, and just singing my heart out while I drive, and it feels so good. Oh my God, that is good. That's a good time. I know. I have mixed feelings about it. because I always want to like explore new music and like try new things and stuff.

But there's also a part of me that like that is such a comfort food for me that I truly feel like relaxed when I'm listening to it. Which is funny because it's very like sludge rock and stuff. But I feel like I've had an uptick in the like 90s and 2000s, even the like kind of pop punk stuff that I used to listen to in like seventh grade. Like what? My Spotify top five is like doing a full 20 year circle back to like Green Day follow up boy yellow card. It was a huge Nirvana fan growing up. Me too. And yeah, Alison Chains, smashing pumpkins and stuff.

But it's funny how cyclical things can happen like 20 years later. Not just like, oh, three years later. I'm back at it. But like, man, I'm a different human being. Oh, my God. But the songs hit the same. They do. That was like my brother, all that music, you know, when I would listen just because of him.

And I was, like, totally 90s, like, R&B and rap and all that stuff. And I still obviously love and appreciate it. But I have to share with you guys. I just got a text from my mom. And she's like, you're getting Breyer a CD player for her birthday, right? Should I order these for her? She'd have sent me a list of all DVDs. Oh, God.

I love herself. And I said, Mom. I said, Mom, what DVDs? Oh, this show she loved when she was little that Everly, my niece, is now watching The Wonder Pets, which is like early aughts cartoon, whatever, you can't get it anymore. And she's like, what if I got this for her, for her to play? Aren't you getting her CD player? And I said, Mom, that's so nice.

She can't play those in her CD player. They're DVDs. That's amazing. Do you have a DVD player? I was like, Mom, we can stream those. She can watch it. We don't need it. We don't need the DVDs.

Oh, God. But it was so in point with what we were talking about that literally just came through. I'm sorry. Speaking of cassette player, I had this experience, and I feel a little guilty, but they won't hear this. But putting someone on blast, I was talking to a friend like six months ago who said they were going to buy Desmond, this like really cute and cool, like, Snoopy retro cassette player that you could like connect to your phone and stuff and put all these cassettes in. and he was like really geeking out. And I was like, I mean, that sounds incredible. It's extremely nice of you.

And it sounded kind of expensive too. And I was like, man, that's super nice. Needless to say, that was the last I heard of it. And it never, never happened. There's a hyper-specific question. But do you have any memories of like stuff like that where someone implies like, hey, we got to do? I mean, it's probably 80% of that is like, let's hang out. Let's get drinks.

But for some reason, like a big. offer like that, that sticks with me much more than like, we got to get drinks and it doesn't happen. Like any big offers that you've gotten, maybe like a gift or something, and then you're like, that never happened. Oh, how about your singing lessons? Oh, yeah. Jeff gets me singing lessons every year. And I've never done them.

But also, we did that to someone. Like, my godson, I was like, we're going to get him swimming lessons for his birthday. And we never did it. And so five years later, they're still teasing us. They're like, nowhere near the pool, nowhere near the pool, Lakota. Your godparents never got you those swimming lessons. That's really funny. So every year we're like, we're getting them swimming lessons and we never do.

He can swim now. Yeah. Not because of you. Not because of us. You should do it for the high school graduation gift or something. Like way past. That's funny. That's good.

lifeguard lifeguard training yeah i don't know do i have anything i think i've been promised some like expensive things in my day that never come to fruition sure but i know and it's so tempting to like follow up with that person of like hey remember when you said this really cool thing that could potentially happen i wish i had that kind of like comfortable being uncomfortable of like I want to make this person feel weird and follow up on things. I'll have, I have some off-mic ones, I'll tell you, too. Of, like, huge, you know, huge offers of things that I was like,

oh, my God, that would be truly incredible. And then last you hear of it. Oh, God, poor Kevin. I know. So many empty promises. They're like, we have this house. We're going to gift you. You're like, oh, my God, that's amazing.

When? Nebuary. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Nebuary. Now it makes me, now it makes me want to start. Guys, who could we do a really good, honest to goodness practical prank on? Can we please put our heads together and do it? Yeah, I love a prank.

I hate pranks. They make me so uncomfortable. We'll just do it. We'll do it on Kevin. He'll never know what's coming. Oh, God. My greatest fear. I feel like Rachel and I missed our calling.

We could have done like a punk to, we could have done a punk show really well. I think we really could. We do shit all the time. We do. We like it. We like being little shithead. Oh, we did it to, we did it to Leah really good recently.

It was so minor, but it went well. But it was really little. It was so stupid. We were talking about the book club. Nice. And she was doing a lot of the, like, technical work, right? Of, like, setting up the email and getting a whatever, all the things in line. And she would ask us questions.

And Rachel and I were like, we took on Launch Girl attitude. Like, we're like, it's just too much with this launch. like we can't like talk until the launch is complete. And she's like, what? And we're like, we're like, I'm just really stressed about this launch. So if you could like hold your questions till after, that would be really helpful. And we just like really leaned into overwhelmed launch girl vibe. And she fell for it.

She really did. And she called. It was like, what is happening? Like, are you guys okay? And we're like, no, this launch is just like really getting to us. Wait, did we already talk about this on here? No. I don't think so.

I think this is the first I've heard of it. Okay. In my mind, I feel like we were talking about it and told somebody about her alter ego, Jessica. No? Okay. That doesn't ring a bell. Okay, cool. Funny.

It makes me think of launch girl makes me think of roaming Michelle's high school union, the businesswoman special. My wife and I say that to each other a lot. Like, when we're having a production. They have like, I'm just going to have the businesswoman special, please. It's one of the best movies of all time. Yeah, it really is. It's so good.

It's so good. Didn't they make, or weren't they making a new one? Am I making that up? I hope so. That'd be awesome. I don't know. I don't know either. Okay, we should go. Bye.

She always, she always, she likes to pull out. I like to clip it. That was a headgum podcast.