Broad Ideas with Rachel Bilson & Olivia Allen - Madison Beer on The Half of It, Trolls, and The Beatles

Episode Date: April 24, 2023

Madison Beer talks with Rachel and Olivia about being discovered by Justin Bieber, her journey to stardom, and social media trolls. They also discuss The Beatles, prejudice against good-looking people, and Madison’s new memoir.  Madison Beer’s memoir The Half of It, is on sale from April 25th: https://madisonbeer.lnk.to/TheHalfofIt Broad Ideas is supported by SpiiderGriip. Go to SpiiderGriip.com and use discount code IDEAS at checkout and receive 30% off and Free Shipping! Broad Ideas is supported by Lume. New customers get $5 off Lume’s Starter Pack with code IDEAS at LumeDeodorant.com. Broad Ideas is supported by Sundays for Dogs. Go to SundaysForDogs.com/IDEAS or use code IDEAS at checkout for 35% off your first order. Broad Ideas is supported by Talkspace. Get $100 off your first month at Talkspace.com/IDEAS.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hax is back for its fifth and final season, and so is The Hacks podcast. Join the Hacks creators and showrunners, Lucia and Yellow, Paul W. Downs, and Jen Statsky as they unpack the Emmy-winning comedy series. On each episode, hear stories from the set, what goes on in the writer's room, and how these beloved characters close out their final season. Watch Hax streaming exclusively on HBO Max and listen to The Hacks podcast on HBO Max, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Broad Ideas.

Hi, guys. Hi. Hey, Rachel. So enthusiastic today. I'm feeling enthusiastic. Woo. I just love who we get to speak to today. Madison Beer, everyone.

She's a singer and an author. Her first book, The Half of It, out tomorrow, April 25th. I'm so excited for this. Some of her top singles, reckless, good and goodbye, selfish. The girl is so talented and so beautiful inside and out. Let's get to Madison Beer. Sometimes when we're inside of all these thoughts are swirling, round and round inside.

To join us on this journey as we take a little ride. We'll talk about dogs and kids and things. We'll talk about chicks. Because people die. We're so happy to have you here. Thank you for having me. You are so stunning. I can't stop looking at you.

Your face, my God. And also so talented. Thank you. What an amazing story you have from being in this space for so long. Yeah. Like you were really young. Definitely. Right?

Were you 12, 13? 12 years old. Is that sixth grade? Were you in sixth grade? If I, yeah, I think I was in sixth grade when I posted everything and then I was like, everything really started in the middle of seventh. I was pulled out of school. You were pulled out of school. So you stopped schooled from seventh to 12th grade.

Tell us about it. Take us through it. Yeah, it's definitely like crazy. So I am from Long Island, New York. Where on Long Island? Jericho. Okay. Do you know Kings Park?

I think that's for, I don't know. Is it NASA? No, it's like, it's like, an hour on the train from the city, hour down. See, I'm, like, don't know east, west, north, south. Okay. So I'm like, I was just to say which way. Yeah. I'm like, left or right.

But yeah, so basically I'm from Long Island. I literally have been singing my entire life. My mom has always said that I, like, came out of her singing. And I just believe her because every video I have of myself from like three years old onwards. I'm like banging on a piano and, like, singing. And it's just always been something that I've really loved to do. And I think that it's really sweet now looking back at like my kindergarten, you know, what do you want to be when you're older?

And I always wrote singer. And like, it's just so cool that I turned out this way. But yeah, anyways, so I started singing training when I was like nine, 10 years old. And I, you know, was always doing like school plays. And I was in this company called Stars of Tomorrow, which was like literally an after school thing that you just would perform songs for. And then I was a huge, huge fan of Christina Grimmie. And I don't know if you guys know her.

She made covers on YouTube. She's incredible. Sadly passed away. She was like my idol, though. And I lived for her. I wanted to be just like her. And that was sort of like where it stopped. Like I just wanted to be like Christina Grimmy.

And I wanted to make covers and sing. And that's all I wanted to do. So I decided to post a cover on YouTube when I was 12 and was discovered by Justin Bieber, massive people. Who's that? Yeah. This one guy. Not familiar. It was just really cool.

It was like a huge whirlwind. It happened very, very fast. Within, I want to say a month of posting the video, I was signed. And it was just crazy. And then I, yeah, moved out to L.A., started doing everything to make a long story short. Like, was at that camp for a while. And then when I was around 16, we sort of parted ways and I did my own thing. And then I was independent for a couple years, just trying to find, like, my sound and realize that, like, I was still only 16, which is, like, still so young.

But I felt like an adult already, and I was just trying to figure out, like, what that meant. And it took me a long time. And now I'm 24 and have my second album on the way. And I couldn't feel more secure and, like, who I am as an artist. And it's taken me, like, a while to get here. But I'm really proud of it. And it's been quite the journey. You should be so incredibly proud.

Thank you. I mean, I can't imagine, like, all the life you've lived. Like, you grow up so fast, I would imagine, like, you know, starting at 12 and all that attention and everything that, you know, snowballed. Yeah. And at 16, you're like, you're 16, but you were already like a pro. I lived like a life already. It's crazy to look back on. Did your family, so how was that with your family? Like, whoa, hey, I'm about to blow up. We're going to move to Los Angeles. Like, how did that happen? And what were the dynamics in the family at that point?

I think like now, looking back, I have different perspectives on it. And I think that I, you know, at the time, like, I think it was just sort of, all right, like, let's do this. This has been your dreams. since you were born. Like, this is a one, this is like hitting the lottery. We have to support this 100% and just like let you try to live this dream out. Now looking back, it's, you know,

when I'm asked something like that, I think about my brother a lot more and kind of what he had to go through because he didn't really get to dictate what happened to his life. He sort of was forced to move to L.A. and was forced to like be homeschooled with me because he didn't really like,

he was enrolled in schools in L.A. and New York, but like just the amount of moving around. He had to do was really difficult. for him. So when you ask that, I kind of more just, I'm like, yeah, it was probably really difficult for Ryder, my brother. Is he older or younger? He's younger than me. And it started happening when he was like nine. So this, this has been his whole life too. And I do feel a lot of guilt around that. But my family was very supportive. And I think that I can't, and I don't hold resentment or like, I don't think that anyone did anything wrong. I think everyone was just really excited for me. But I do think that like we, you know, both us kids were too young.

to kind of go through what we did. And I think that, yeah, things just, like, weren't, things weren't looked at of, like, what happens if this doesn't work out? And what happens if this fails? Like, now what? So, yeah, I don't know. I think it was, it's tricky because obviously my parents just wanted to be supportive. But I think in doing that, some damage was also caused, you know.

But there was no right answer. And that's what I tell my mom and my dad now, you know, when my mom comes to me crying. And she's like, did I do the wrong thing by you? Because she'll hear the way I talk about it, you know? And I try to be very, like, honest and just say how, like, yeah, I feel I was, like, fucked up in a lot of ways. And I feel like I did miss out on my childhood in a lot of ways. And as a mom, she'll feel a lot of guilt when I say those things. And she's like, oh, my God, did I make the wrong decision?

And I'm like, no. Like, you, of course, you supported me in my dreams. You can't, like, there was, what were you going to do? Say, no, we're not going to L.A. And you're not going to have this once in a lifetime chance. Like, your idol just signed you and I'm going to make you stay in Jericho. Right. It's just like there was, there was no right way to go around it.

So I definitely think no one should feel guilty, but I think it was, it was just hard. It was hard. And we were very young. Right. But to have that awareness, I think, also is there's like an emotional maturity to it, you know, and to look at it all and think of your brother. I was going to ask initially, like, are you an only kid? Because, you know, all that factors in.

But I'm sure, are they, as everyone's still, like, out in L.A. and they've made their life here. Yeah. My mom actually, like, only officially, officially moved. So when we and my brother were really young, she moved here with us to obviously be our parent. but she still had her house in Long Island and wasn't really ready to sell it and sort of was going back and forth.

But she officially moved here like three, four years ago. My brother's been here though since I started. He actually spent like a year and a half, maybe two years with my dad in Long Island because it just kind of all got a lot for him out here. And then he came back and he's been here for the past like five years. Are your parents still together? No.

I've been to four since I was like six. Oh, okay. Okay. Nothing new. And the truth is I think this, Often being a mom, Rachel being a mom, we're going to fuck up our kids somehow, no matter what. You know what I mean? Like it could be from holding them back from their dream or from supporting them or for any which million ways we can fuck up our kids.

We're probably going to do it. We all have our own kind of curriculum, right? And it sounds like this was yours. Yeah. But I feel like it brings up a really important topic because we spend a lot of talking about like the effects of social media on young women and young girls and Rachel being the mom of a young girl. What was that experience like for you dealing with it so young? It's like definitely obviously something that I get asked about a lot and I think it's a difficult

question to like summarize an answer for because it's still happening today. Right. Right. So it's like it's just this constant cycle. It is a bit of an up. whole battle. I do look at it in not the best light. I think I'm pretty jaded in regards of social media. I'm not very active on my platforms. I'm not very like, I don't know. It's just a lot. And I think at this point, I've been using it for like 13 years that I'm just like kind of over the whole thing in a lot of ways. And I think mainly it's just because when I talk about this and I talk about it a lot in my book and I discuss that like it should say something to people that, I've been on social media.

I've had like a large following for so long. And I've never gotten used to the hate. I've never gotten used to the, all of it. It's just, it's something you don't become numb to, at least not for me. And maybe I'm like a different type of person because I know there are people

who it doesn't affect, but I'm quite sensitive. I am insecure in a lot of ways. I struggle with body image things. Like I have a lot of personal issues. So to see them like amplified and picked out and ripped apart, it's a lot. It's a lot for me.

So yeah, I think it's like, it can be very dangerous. I think it's also amazing in a lot of ways. I've met my best friend in the world through social media. So I'm like grateful for it. In a lot of ways, it's how I connect with my fans. It's how I promote myself, whatever you want to say. But I do think there's a dangerous side. But I think someone like you in your position to talk about all these things and even say like, you know, you are insecure and these things do affect you.

Like, you know, it's just being real about it because of what it is. yes, there's like positives, there's negatives. And like she said, like, I'm raising a young girl. And I'm like, I don't want her to have a phone until she's 35. You know? Don't. I really don't. I would like, that's amazing. I don't think she should. I'm like, yeah, she's, you know, it's, it just, it freaks me out a little bit. And like, we talk about this a lot. Like, we went through high school before social media existed. Which it was probably lovely. Right. And so looking at it now. My mom always talks me about that. Does she? Yeah. She's like, I, she's like, she always brings up the fact that she remembers when her first boyfriend cheated on her.

She's like, I couldn't imagine if I had that girl's Instagram, TikTok. I would just sit and like stalk her all day and I would just want to die and like just all that stuff. And like this is the reality of like what a lot of everyone's living in. But I think that like just going back to just social media in general and what you said about like me talking about it, I made a promise myself so long ago to say like I'm not going to let. Because when I started, let me just say this, when I started in the industry, everything my managers, my agents, my label. people around me said was you can never show them it gets to you. You have to have thick skin. You have to tell them that, oh, like, I'm above the hate and hate doesn't affect me. And I focus on the love. And it burnt out so quickly for me because I was just like, that's not true. It's fucking bullshit.

And it's only making these haters think that what they're doing doesn't have to have repercussions, which I think that it does. And like, if you go up to somebody in school and you say that they're fat and ugly and disgusting, you're probably going to get like expelled or like put in detention. and people will be like, yo, you're crazy and you're a horrible person. Right. But if you say it online, it doesn't matter. And, like, no one cares. And I just think that that's wrong. And I think that it's not okay. Like, I just recently, like, had a thing where I walked a carpet and, like, I wore this

dress that was just, like, really unflattering on me. And there was a TikTok that went sort of, like, viral a bit of me in the dress. And it was, like, a horrible angle. And it sure, like, I didn't look my best in it. And just reading these comments, I was just so sick that, like, the fact that nothing goes through these people's heads of, like, what? 24-year-old girl wouldn't feel insecure if you're saying that I look horrible in something. It makes me want to kill people. It's just scary. And it, it frightens me because I've just never

functioned that way. I think that I've just always had like an abundance of like empathy towards people and I've always like just rooted for others. Like I just don't, I don't have that in me to be like vicious. And I could never push send on a comment that says like, wow, she looks really fucking ugly and huge and terrible here. I'm like, wow. What is wrong? with people. Literally, wow. I think that too, I think that when people ask you to have a thick skin and they ask you to get used to something that shouldn't be, why should I have to? Tolerable. One, why should I have to tolerate abuse? Right. You shouldn't. Abuse and bullying. No. To be a singer. Okay. You should be a singer. Right. Right. It sucks. Yeah. It's not like you

has to put yourself out there. So it's an open invitation for anyone to have an opinion on appearance or, you know? I talk, I literally say that exact thing in my book where I'm like, I'm like, just because you have an opinion does not mean you need to share it. And just because you have a social media account doesn't mean you just have this like passage of like, oh, my opinion is just like valid. And like, no, wasn't the first thing that we taught our kids like, treat people the way you want to be treated and like, right. Don't. Golden rule. Just be nice. Literally be nice. Be kind to one another. It's just not hard. And I just think. that like that's something that people don't think about. And I do think there is this thing, obviously, online where people think I'll never see it. And they think that like, celebrities, whatever you want to say, won't read these things. But like, what makes you think that? And like, sure, maybe a lot of them don't. And maybe a lot of them don't use TikTok the way I do.

But I'm a 24 year old girl. Of course I'm like online and I see these things. And like, I don't know. I just, I do hope for a brighter day. I think that like hopefully the pendulum will swing the other way and people will be held accountable. for these things. I think your digital imprint's like important. Like you're, like, you should have a footprint that like follows you. And if you say something vicious about someone, like that should follow you. Yeah. Like you're saying like repercussions. It should. No, I know. These people like in the safety of their home behind closed doors or saying whatever. I could not imagine how they would feel if it happened to them. Right. It's not, you know, and and well, it probably did in some way. You know what I mean? It's like what they say hurt people, hurt people. Totally. And usually people that go out of their way to be that unkind. And, you know, it's not. And. And usually people that go out of their way to be that unkind. were damaged or hurt in some sort of way. That doesn't make it excusable. It's awful. But what I appreciate most is you saying the truth about the way it makes you feel

because that gives other people permission to be honest about the way they feel. Because I think the message is like tough enough. You're doing this. Like you have to have thick skin. But the truth of the matter is like I feel like for you, for your, you know, we know Charlotte Lawrence really well. there's people out there that are doing this that just happen to be gorgeous and happen to be talented, but also really kind, kind people that don't deserve that kind of behavior.

Yeah, and that's like what's the most important to me too is like I don't care about any of the other like surface nonsense stuff. Like I, what I'm, what I love the most about myself is that I have a beautiful heart and is that I'm a good person and is that I like want goodness for people. Like that's what I go to sleep smiling about. not like any of that other stuff. So I don't know. Yeah, it does, it does just suck. There's like no other way to put it. It's just like, damn, I wish people just could knock it off. Right. They won't ever. And you, so your book, the half of it is out. What inspired you? What made you

want to write this and tell this side of the story? Um, I think mainly I am aware of the fact that I think that people don't know me, like personally. And that's fine. And I don't have like, obviously an interpersonal relationship with all my fans. But I noticed specifically on tour and in these moments where I had like intimate meetings with people that I got to know them so quickly. And I felt like I had such a deep connection with them so fast that I was like, how can I reach more people with the same connection? Because I really like, that's what I like love the most about life is connecting with people.

So I thought, okay, I can, you know, go live and talk about all these things or I can post an Instagram post. I just felt like a lot of the people who would be viewing that and looking at it. at it don't really care to get to know me, which is just the truth. Yep. And I wanted to do something that the people who do care to get to know me and who do want to and they want to read my story and they want to like understand me a bit more, I think those are the people that I was really writing this for. And also just like my younger self a bit. I just felt like I didn't have something like this growing up and something like this would have helped me a lot. So I don't

know. There's a lot of reasons why I did it. But mainly I just wanted to like get my story out to the right people. And your story is like kind of looking at it from just how everything affected you and the true story behind everything people saw basically. Exactly. Real transparent kind of mirror into it. And I think that's beautiful. And I think, you know, like I said, using your voice, I think it's amazing. And I think there will be a lot of people that obviously are fans are yours and that respond to you in such a positive way and will love to hear it. I'm excited for it. Thank you. Myself. And it also seems like you're close with your mom.

And I think that that always plays like a big role and you talk like I can tell your heart is beautiful and you're so kind. And I always do that with my daughter too. Like, you know, other moms are like, your daughter's so kind. And I'm like, that's the win, you know, in life. And I love seeing an example of a beautiful grown woman successful who had that and still has that. And I think it's a beautiful thing you're doing. So you have to come. commend you on that. That was like the biggest lesson my mom like taught me my brother was growing up.

Oh my God. I mean above anything else it was just like be a good person. Right. Right. You suck. Or you say it's that simple. It was that simple for us and it was just always and I, you know, we grew up and she was always like a very generous person and like she just taught like little things to us throughout our whole life that now I look back on and it's like definitely the reason I am whether it's like, you know, she would make these goody bags of. baby wipes and fruit snacks and like little things. And she would go literally just drive around when she had a free hour and like drop them off to homeless people who needed things. And like just she was always just like that. And that's just genuinely how she's always been. And, you know, when we would grow out of our clothes, she would make us like put all of our

clothes in bags and literally walk up to like less fortunate neighborhoods, knock on the door and like give our clothes to younger kids that needed them and whatever. And maybe not even needed them just like could have wanted them and it could just made them smile. And that was like so nice because I think growing up we got a lot of, I got a lot of like serotonin and like endorphin hits when I was like, oh my God, like making people happy makes me happy and this feels good for me, you know? So that was something that I think was just implemented really early for us, was just like making other people feel good will make you feel good.

And it's it's just been something that I've, yeah, that's like my life motto, my life thing. I just like making people happy. Broad Ideas is supported by SpiderGrip. Oh no. Did you drop your phone again? You need to get to. get a spider grip. Spider grip keeps your phone in your hand right where it belongs. It's the phone grip that won't slip. Spider grip props up as a stand, rotates 360 degrees, and lays flat, locked in place, easily fitting into your pockets or purse. Spider grip is comfortable, durable, and functional, and appeals to anyone who has a phone. No more unfortunate drops in all the wrong places. No more missed opportunities on great pictures and videos. No more hand, pain due to

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kindness and then you were opened up to this whole other world. I would imagine one that, that could break your heart. Yeah, definitely. Because you see when you're coming almost through the lens of like, people are good and people are kind and they want the best for everyone and then you open up that door to like, whoa, scary. There's a whole other world out there. Yeah. One, did it break your heart? And two, did it have an effect on your mental health? And if so, how? Definitely. I think that for me growing up, it definitely was like obviously like a positive environment. I had, when I was, young, I only really had like one negative scary experience where like I was sexually abused as a child. And that was like, oh, like there's this like one scary monster in the world. And that was kind of how I remember thinking about this person was like they're just there. They're the exception. You know, like that's not how the world is. They're just a one scary monster. And when I was opened up to the rest of the world being so like cruel to me and horrible and harsh and mean, I was. like, wait, are there like more scary monsters out there? And that was like really jarring for me

because I did think that that person was just like a, oh, like not everyone's bad. No one's bad, you know? And then it was, it was really hard to realize that there are actually not great people and not everyone is just going to be like nice to you forever. So it did take a huge toll on my mental health. It was really scary. I felt like a turtle in a shell for a lot of years. And I felt just like I can't do anything right. Everything I say is wrong. Yeah, it was, it was really. really difficult. And it hasn't stopped either. I mean, like, I literally two nights ago was when I talked about that dress thing. Like, I was spiraling. Like, so triggered, so upset. Like, it's, it's, it's really hard. And it doesn't really get easier. So I think the only answer is people need to just be

nicer and take it easy on each other. It's like, it's that simple. Be kind. Yeah. You know, and the whole spiraling, like all of it, it's like, it can just take one thing to just kind of send you on that mental plane, you know, and for you dealing with stuff so young and you had an instance with monster age, that has to affect your mental health. Do you, did you do anything for yourself to help that? Yeah. I mean, I've been in therapy for so, so long now. I only found like my amazing therapist probably like two, three years ago now and I've been with her ever since. And she's helped me so much. And she's been amazing. But I've done, I think, a lot of things. and, like, other ways, even, I think, writing this book or, like, talking to you guys, things

like this, I think make me feel a lot better in all of it, because I just do think that, that, you know, even if one person listens to this and they're like, oh, my God, like, I found comfort in this or whatever. It means a lot I spoke about in the book, like, a time I met this girl, I spoke at a school, and I used to just kind of, like, talk at schools randomly. Like, I would just, like, want to, and I would just go into a club and talk to them. And I met this girl afterwards, and she was so sweet. was so cute and she had been going through a really hard time with a breakup and she started crying

and I should remember like my gut was like, can I hold your hand? And I just asked that and we just stood there like two strangers holding hands. Like I was crying. She was crying. We were having this beautiful experience that it just makes all of the bad stuff so worth it in that like simple moment. So yeah, I think that it's just like there are times that make it so worth it. And I think that I would take like the hate for the rest of my life if it meant I could have those special experiences because they mean so much to me. They really do. It was so beautiful. It was so beautiful. It was like a special moment. I felt like we were like glowing in the room. It's amazing. Well, it's also like, you know, when you, they say when you

hold a lot of light, you have equal parts light and dark, right? And that's kind of the blessing and the curse of it all is like when you're gifted with a huge light that you're supposed to share with the world in whatever capacity that is, that usually doesn't come with. out an equal side of darkness. Totally. And I think that it's about finding, okay, well, how do I take that darkness and now make it light? Right? And that's what you're doing.

Yeah, that's been the journey. Yeah. I want to, like, I'm, like, focused on, like, you just spiraling the other night. And I literally want to, like, go on the post and, like, attack all the people. I know. It's hard. It's hard. It's hard.

I'm sure. And I've, you know, I've been known to erase a race. a comment or two. I'm like, why I even have it out there? Yeah, but who cares? I know. I know. And I think, but I think that you are setting such a good example. And it's obviously led by example, like your mom and everything. And I think that's so important because you have the space to really do that. And through your music, which you write yourself. Yeah. Which is incredible. Have you done that your whole life? No. I actually didn't start writing my own music till I was probably like, I mean, I wrote songs on my first EP, but like really, really, really writing. I was probably like 19. Like, I was like scared to write for so long. Yeah, I was like, I am not good enough. I can't do this. I'm scared. And then I just started and I found a crew of people that like supported me and loved everything I had to say. So that was really really nice. And yeah, now we do everything together. That's so cool. It's amazing. So you get to express yourself through your music. Totally. I feel like that's therapy in itself too. Oh my God. More than anything. Right. Yeah. It's the best. You and Charlotte need to do a song to do.

I know. I want Charlotte to open for me on tour. Really badly. That's like what I really want to happen. Oh my God. Oh, we're going to that. Yes, for sure. That would be 100% incredible. I'm so excited for her song.

Oh, yeah. Body bag? Have you heard the whole thing? From the, I was getting the voice notes of body bag while it was being written. It's amazing. It's the sickest. I love for someone. You know, you're an example of, right?

And I don't want to put so much emphasis on your looks because you're also in incredibly gifted musician. Thank you. And you just wrote a book and you've got so much else going on. You're also one of the most beautiful people. It's true. And so here's what I want to say, which I think is really important. If someone can take someone like you who is goddamn fucking perfect and talent,

no, it's true. Thank you. And talented to back it up and intelligent to write a book and going out there and trying to do things and tear you down for a fucking dress that you wore, that means nobody is immune. That means that there is no perfection. There is nothing. There's no higher up you can go. Right. Thank you. But no, but it's true. Right. It's like if they're doing it to you, people need to hear this and they need to hear how it affects because think of the people that are just starting. I do. Right.

Yeah, and I worry for them. Yeah. I'm like, oh boy. Go home. Go home. Go home. What would you do if your daughter came to and wanted to do this? I think I would use my experiences to shield her from a lot of things.

I think I would like just go about it differently and I would just like handle it. I would think I would handle it pretty well. I definitely, I don't know. I think it's hard. Like, you know, when I talk to my mom. about some of the, you know, the other night when I was really upset and she's doing what she thinks is the right thing to do, is just tell me, like, just ignore it. You're amazing. But it feels dismissive to me, you know, and I get real, then that gets me really upset because I'm like, no, you don't get it. You don't know how it feels.

And you would be crushed if these people said this about you. And it's, and it feels isolating almost because I'm like, no one understands, not even my own mom. And she, and again, like, to put emphasis on, like, she's trying to be comforting. She just, like, doesn't realize how it's affecting me. I think I would just, like try to validate. Like, I don't know that I would even like shield my kid from all of it because I think that if you do want to be in this industry, like you're going to have to read comments and you're going to have to see these things. And sure, I would tell her like, have thick skin, but also I think just like implementing in

a human being that like they are good enough and like nothing anyone can say can take that away from you. And like, I don't know, just just validating someone's emotions, I think does a lot of good and just making someone feel safe and heard is really. important. And that's like, that's like all I ever really want. Like I have one friend who I can talk to about any of this and she would never say like, you'll be fine. She's like, oh my God, like, this is absurd. And I can't believe that you're dealing with this. And I'm so sorry that you're dealing with this. And like, even just getting that means a lot and not having someone be like, oh, she's overreacting or being

dramatic and this is not the big of a deal. That makes me crazy. We talk about this a lot. Like, we always back each other. Like if we're going through it or something negative or whatever it is, we understand and we're like, oh no, I totally get how you're feeling. Yeah. Like, we're going to let you feel this way. When you come out of it, I'm going to say all the positive things. Sure. You know?

Sure. But we're going to let you go through that. And I think that's the biggest support. And moms always mean well. Yeah. Sometimes, you know. She also grew up at a different time. She's like doesn't.

She's never had like hundreds of thousands of people say that she looks like she gained weight and like looks bad and like whatever. So I get it. And that's why again, like, I also have empathy for her where I'm like, you don't, you are not trying to do anything wrong. Right. But. And I'm thinking,

Your mom's probably, all right. Definitely not. And she's also, like, amazing. And, like, I just, but I don't know. It's just tricky. There's no right way to go about it. There's nothing you can say that's going to take it away. And I think that I'm just, I'm proud that I've been able to, like, do the work on myself that I've somehow turned out all right.

And I'm not, like, banging my head against the wall. I do bang my head against me. I do bang my head against me. occasionally, like, you know. But I feel like it's inner child's work. Because, like, when those. Right? me too.

Because like when those things happen, I always all talk to myself like that. And instead of being like get thicker skin or get over it, I wouldn't tell that to your kid. Never. I would say, baby, I hear you. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry that hurt you. I understand the way you feel. Exactly.

And now I have to do that to myself. Or my friends, we do that to each other. We hold that space for each other to just be like, you know. Yeah. It's so important. It's so. I mean, like I was literally saying yes. yesterday in another podcast I was saying how I, like, we are all just little girls and children

that grew up. And like, I think that for me, something like weird that like sort of kick-started a lot of this mental health stuff was I was having like a lot of conflict with like both of my parents honestly and felt like just really distant from the both of them. And I was just like, oh my God, like I kind of like hate them both right now. And I had this thought and I read this book and it was just really emphasizing that like it's your parents first time going through life as well. And I think that it's a weird moment as kids when you realize like, wait, my mom is a person. She's not like my superhero mom wearing a cape. And I know for me at least that was like scary. And I did have that moment where I was like, you are just a girl that had a kid.

And that's that's it. And you're not like superwoman. And I think that like it's it's changed my perspective in a good way now. I think at the time I was like freaking out. I was like, oh my God, this is like crazy and I just like can't believe that this is real. But now I'm like, the reasons I admired my mom growing up was because she was so strong and she could do anything and she was amazing. Now I admire her because like she's healed from a broken heart and she had the courage to leave a relationship she didn't feel was doing good for her. She, you know, has survived on the other end of like previous abuse, not talking about my dad. And just think just things that like she's done that I'm I'm like, those are the reasons now I admire her.

She's broken down in front of me. She's been vulnerable. She's been honest about struggling with things like weight or her relationship with her body and food and things like that. And like, those are the reasons I admire her now and that's so awesome. But I think that it made me do a lot of inner child work because I'm like, I'm also just a person who's going through life for the very first time. And I do look at myself like this little girl. And I always tell my friends, I'm like I feel like I was stunted. I feel like I'm still like the fact that I'm 24.

is crazy. I think I'm still like 18 years old and I trip out sometimes and obviously COVID didn't help with that either. But I just, I don't know, I definitely felt like I had a lot of healing to do and I had a lot of facing things to do. And I ran for a really long time from a lot of really like dark, serious things that I just didn't want to admit. And yeah, I think it just, it just all goes back to like empathy. It just all goes back to being empathetic towards people and like just understanding that like everyone is trying. I do believe everyone has good intentions. I feel sorry. Like now when I meet someone who's like an evil, horrible person, I don't just be like, oh, you suck. I'm more so just like, oh, something happened. Something happened. And it sucks. And I think that people, you know,

people should look at each other that way a bit more. And I kind of also believe that like, sorry for the rant. I kind of also believe that we also are all in a way, kind of one. And I think that we all are living the same life in different forms, different bodies, different places. So when I meet someone, I, like, I extend, when I'm extending a hand of kindness to someone, I look at it like I'm extending a hand to myself or like when you victimize someone, you're doing it to yourself. And like, I just do believe that. And I think that like, I don't know. Yeah, there's, there's so much. And I just, I'm grateful for this journey that I've been on. I feel like I've been on this, like, awesome mental health journey that's gotten me to this place that I,

I don't know. I just am like full of. love for other people. It's amazing. It's so impressive. It's really nice. At 24 to have this is incredible. Like a gift. Thank you. What was the book that you read that the parent thing? There's so, so many. Okay. I thought maybe you were. Share them. People love to know what helps you. There's literally a trillion. Now, of course, you ask me, I'm going to like blank on the name. She's like, I know that it's red. I have a giving tree tattoo. That's so weird. Do you? Oh, that's so weird. I'm so weird. Same. That's literally, I have a tattoo for it. What is it called? I mean, there's inner child workbooks that I, like, live for.

Live for. That I, like, read all the time. Like, just, like, simply healing your inner child. Oh. There's, like, that's one. There's so many. What is the, it's something I think that it's, like, surviving narcissistic abuse is one. There's a bunch, and I will remember. Yeah, yeah. I don't worry. I literally, like, and I'll say something. And then that. they'll be like, oh, that trauma keeps the score. Oh, the body keeps the score. Body keeps the score. Love that's on our book list. That's a great book. That book, like, was the Kickstarter for everything where I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's what I hear. I haven't read it, but our friends were over this weekend and they were saying that it absolutely changed their life. It's insane. And it's like, it's also just like scientific and like literal research that

you just are like, wow, I'm not crazy. I'm just a product of like PTSD and drama. And like, That's crazy. That's crazy. You know. We all are. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I just keep talking about like wanting to do EMDR. Yeah. What is it? What is it again? Electro. Is it magnetic? Yeah. Yeah. It's the trauma response therapy. Oh, I need a lot of that. I need to look it up. I know. I've been like, I feel like, because I have this trauma response in my body, like my body. Because your muscles store the trauma, right? Oh, when I get like, when I have a panic attack where I'm like triggered by something, I will physically start like,

shaking and trembling and I'm like, it's crazy. Your body reacts. Yeah. And I want to get a hold of that because like it's not okay. Yeah, no, it sucks. Yeah. And I think that so many people, I don't know. And I haven't done it like I said, but I have, we have heard people do it and it's

really helpful. And it, like, well, yeah, because it needs to get out of your body. Right. I think it's. Because otherwise it's just going to be triggered over and over. And that's when it gets hard. Like one little thing, like someone saying you don't look in a dress is going to trigger your trauma response from something that that monster in the past, right?

And I think that it is all about getting appropriate with things, but we can't do that if we're holding trauma in our body. 100%. If we don't process it and let it go, things are going to land the exact same way over and over and over. For sure. Yeah. And it can be the littlest thing. Oh, something so small.

Yeah. We'll send me over the edge. Right. And I'm like instantly like, shaking, convulsing. It sucks. It's crazy. I know.

You don't realize until you're, at least there's an awareness and you're aware of what it is and what it's doing. Yeah. I think it's the first step to helping it. Yeah. And I think like boundaries have been the biggest thing for me in this life where I'm like, wow, I just am so glad that I've gotten the balls to like say no and stand up for myself and like remove myself from rooms that I don't feel comfortable in.

Good for you. It's been, and I tell like my fans or my friends or my family even, I'm just like if you can implement that. It's so, it's so empowering. And it's just the way that I look at it is like, you have to be your own best friend. And like, I know for a fact that if someone was talking about something that was clearly like hurting someone I cared about in the same room, I know that I would be like, yo, cut it out and stop talking about that. She's clearly uncomfortable. Why would I not do that for myself? Because people are going to be like, oh, Madison's like crazy. And like, She just like, no, I won't, I won't tolerate it simply.

And so, yeah, it's just, it's just been like big for me. I remember there was a night on tour where I was really mentally not well. And I was feeling just like so overwhelmed, overstimulated. I was homesick. I just like was not feeling good. I had five shows in a row. I was exhausted. Like just, it was like just not, I was not having a fun night this night.

And every night after my show, I would go out and I would meet my fans because they would all be around my tour bus and I would, you know, like stay for over an hour. and take pictures and talk to them. And it was like my favorite part of the show. But this night I got off stage. And also I found that one of my friends passed away like three minutes before walking on stage. It was just like a lot. And I was like I can't meet people tonight.

Like I feel so just like dead right now. And I remember feeling so guilty and feeling so horrible. And I was like, oh my God. Like I feel terrible that I didn't spend time with them. But what was so nice was when I tweeted, I just like was open about it. And I was like, hey, guys, I'm just letting you know. I had a really tough day and I just feel like I want to get in bed and not talk to people. I don't feel like I'm in the right state of mine right now.

Everyone was so understanding and they were so sweet and they were just like, oh my God, Madison, like go to bed. Like we get it, blah, blah, blah. And I think that's just because like I have been able to set boundaries and I think having even my fans respect them is so lovely because they know that I'm not just being like a bitch and I don't want to hang out with them. They know that it's for a reason. And it's just nice.

And there's so many, there's so many instances where I can like give you examples of times where I've been able to stand up for myself and set a boundary. And it just feels so good. Yeah. It feels like you're just looking out for yourself and it's like, wow. No, it's huge too. You were sending so many important and amazing messages to young people everywhere. And old people.

And old people. Because like, I've just learned boundaries in my 40s. You know what I mean? And like it's huge. And you have to do that. You have to advocate for yourself. Totally. And I just think it's amazing that you can do that.

And because people know you're such a genuine person. So when you do say it, they listen. And I think it's just a testament to you. Thank you. But it's hard. And I can't imagine being a young, beautiful girl coming up in the business and everyone wanting to control you and having an opinion. Wait, you can't. Yeah, I was going to say wait. Hold on. Do you not know what that's like? Did you not watch the OC? I worded that wrong. But I know, but she was like really young. Maybe you can say now with social media. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. But also. You were 12.

Like, no, like, yeah. That's a big difference. I got it was 21. I mean, it was a little bit of, you know. But at least you, like, were a human. I was, I was, I was a human at the time. Yeah. Still, yeah.

But, yeah, but like, you know, so many men, especially and in the businesses and for you to put boundaries for yourself and, like, leave the room if you don't feel safe or what I, I mean, that is so massive and so amazing. And just, I, I couldn't have done that. I think, I don't think I did do that for a long time. It's hard. It is. It's really hard. Because, of course, as women, we just get perceived as, like, crazy and overdramatic. And I'm just like, I don't care if that's how I'm perceived now.

Well, I think a lot of girls think, too, if I set a boundary, I'm going to come off as a bitch. Yeah. I'm going to come off as, like, entitled or, like, snobby and, like, oh, everything has to like, no, this is my life and I don't want to. Yeah. I think the biggest thing that people can remember when setting boundaries, there's a difference between being cold, being a bitch, and just straight up being in your integrity. Yeah. And when you're in your integrity, you're unfuck withable. I always say unfuck withable. Don't you love that you just said that? Don't you love it?

Right. And that's what integrity is. Like you can't, when I have integrity, you can't fuck with me. Yeah. It's that simple and you don't have to worry about being a bitch. You don't have to be. It's just clear. Right.

Totally. And there is a difference. There's a clear difference for sure. And I think that like it's all about how you word things. It's all about like just, I don't know. There's so many things. I think at the end of the day, if you're looking out for yourself. them do no wrong.

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Go to talkspace.com slash ideas now to get $100 off. Talkspace.com slash ideas. Do you have certain things like in your mind, like rules or there's red flags or whatever you want to call it that you can like see in a person, whether it's work, romantic, whatever, that are like clear to you if you notice these things that it's a done deal. Can I word that? Yeah, no, no, I got understood for sure. I think, yeah, definitely. I think people who are, like I know, the same. I know, the same thing. I know, is like the most cliche thing, but if I'm like out to dinner with people and someone's just like wildly disrespectful to a waiter or something. No, that's huge. That's like that. I know, but like everyone says that, but that's like something that I will really notice and I really don't like that. It shows someone's

character. Or any type of like someone who's working in service, like people who are just bossy or disrespectful, I just, I can't stand it at all. So that's like a huge thing for me. And I think that just obviously goes into just being like if you're just not kind to people. I just don't want to hang out with you. But I mean, there's so many things. I think that, I mean, I literally, there's so, so many. I think that, like, I hang out with a lot of guys a lot. I, like, play poker quite often.

And so I, like, I like to hang out with a lot. And obviously, that's, like, mainly guys. Sadly, I wish there was more girls that played. But trying to change that. But so every night when I'm, like, sitting at this poker table with these guys, some of the conversations they'll have obviously can be, like, vulgar about girls and about this and I like we just won't tolerate it. Like I just won't

let them talk about women like that. I won't let them like discuss like I just like will you shut them down? Oh yeah. Give us an example of how. Well okay first off this is this is small but this is huge for me and people who are close to me know this like I so this is also something that people get shocked when I say this but I I guess also being friends with like teenage boys

this is just the reality of my life but the other day. So, like, this guy was talking about this girl that he hooked up with. And he was telling an entire table about how he thought that her nipples were, like, weird or something, like, along those lines and was just, like, laughing about it. And all the guys were sort of just, like, jumping in on the whole thing. And I was sitting there. And I try to first make it clear with, like, body language that I'm uncomfortable. Also, like, why are you, why would you ever even do this a period? But in front of a girl is, like, crazy. And then I'm like trying to make it clear that I'm uncomfortable with my body language and the conversation is not changing.

It's actually like building continuously. And so I just interrupted them. And I was like, have any of you ever looked in a mirror? And they all, they all were like, what? And I was just like, you guys are all like really below average. So like shut the fuck up. And like I literally just said it like straight out like that. I was just because I was just pissed.

I was like. And then I was and then I started like getting a little. more serious. And I was like, you guys can't say that about something that someone that someone. You got intimate with someone. You should have more fucking respect for her than to talk about her, like, body and like be disgusting and mean about it. Like that I'm like, I'm sure what's between your pants isn't that fucking great. So like shut up. I just get really like triggered and mad by that because I think that guys literally think they're like incredible when most of them are just simply not. Right. And I just I literally, the first thing in my mouth was like,

have any of you ever looked in a mirror? Just question mark. Question mark. Mother talking. I'm sure this girl was like. like magnificent. I'm sure her boobs were amazing. Like, just shut up. It's just so stupid. And I think it's also just shows. And this is what I said to them was I was like, it just shows how immature you guys are because

a real man isn't going to, first of all, it's not ever going to like disclose secret, private, intimate moments with a hookup girl that he had. That's like just disrespectful point blank period. Second of all, you're not going to feel the need to like boast to your friends. Right. And third, you're not going to like make fun of something that someone can't control. And like, it's just ridiculous. It's just so.

it's so disrespectful and I just, I can't, like, sit and listen to them talk about that. So now they don't talk about those things. Good. And honestly, I think, like, at all, like, I genuinely think the more that they've hung out with me. And, like, I have to continue to contextualize. Like, these are, like, 19-year-old boys.

So, like, I'm not going to, like, crucify them too much. Like, they are kids. But I try to teach them lessons and be, like, it's not, it's not becoming. And girls are not going to want to get with you or talk to you or think that you're cool. If you're talking about women this way, like, it's just, like,

it's just not okay. So I definitely put them in their place. And my brother told me because he was there that night. He wasn't engaging in the conversation, but he was there. And he like texted me after and was like, I genuinely don't think any of them are ever going to speak about girls like that again. And I was like, good. Good. Well, it leaves a mark on girls. And that's the thing. It's like the same thing. I remember when I was young and guys would have conversations like that about girls' nipples. And I remember being like, are my nipples weird? And then every girl is like wondering like, are their nipples weird? And it's like, Or when guys talk about girls' vaginas? Exactly.

I can't deal with that. That's like, I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what are we doing? Like, and everybody's, everybody's vaginas and nipples are different and everybody has different preferences and taste. And all of them are beautiful and fine. Like, and you're lucky to go near one. And you honestly shouldn't be going near one if you have these like opinions about them. Yeah. I'm sorry.

Like it's just like you don't deserve to like touch a woman if you're going to be so judgmental and like disrespectful towards her body. It's just foul. By the way, six people at the table. didn't even know this guy. That's also just like, you're literally just trying to sound cool and, like, impress people. Obviously, everyone is allowed to have like an opinion. You're allowed to talk about people like behind closed doors. But I think, and everyone does. But I just think there's like a way to go about it. Of course. But for all that guy knows, that girl could be a friend of mine. Right. Like, what are you doing? Yeah. Or for all he knows, my nipples could look the exact thing. That's what I was thinking. Like, what are your

nipples is like that. Oh, my God. It's actually horrible. But you're teaching these young men and I think that's great. Because you literally, you're like. Oh, I try. I try. Putting them in their place and they're below average place. Literally, I'm like, look in a fucking mirror. You're not that great. And even if you were, like, it's bringing you down to a zero. So stop. That's so good. So your little brother must have a really good head on his shoulders with you as a big sister. I think he's still a 20-year-old boy. And I try. But I think that I think he's going to be amazing as he continues to age.

He's only gotten better every year. But I still am like, okay, he's a 20-year-old boy. He's now perfect and he can't be perfect yet. But I do think for his age, he's incredible. And I think he is the sweetest, sweetest boy. And he has so much, like, love for people. And I just, he's a really solid individual, too. He's very smart.

And he's very just, like, kind. And he has such a soft. sweet heart. Like he's quite sensitive and quite just like, I don't even know how to explain it. He's also the funniest person I've met in my whole life. Like I cry. No one makes me cry laughing like him. I love that.

He's incredible. He's incredible. That's really sweet. Yeah, I have a song on my album about him. Oh, you do. I'll play it for you guys before. And that's a big secret that I just said, but it's okay. Oh.

That's real. Does he know? He knows. and he, like, we sobbed together when I played it for him. It was very special. It's like the most special thing in the world, most special song. I want to hear it before you. He actually does.

He does. Only as of, like, recently he's been able to muster up the confidence and do it. I think he was always just intimidated and felt like he lived in my shadows and was like, oh, I'm never going to be. And I'm like, you are, you are writer. I am Madison. You don't ever have to be anything like me. You need to be like you.

And like, that's what I've been trying to instill on him. And he's also so good. Like, he's really genuinely an amazing singer. He has such a cool year. And that's been like we were really, really, really close growing up. Really, really close. And then when all this started, we definitely, a lot of distance grew between us. And I feel like I didn't really know him from like the time he was like 13 to 18, I want to say.

Like, I really felt like I didn't know him. And now in the last like two years, we've gotten just really close. And we've bonded a lot over music. and it's just so fun and it's so cool to be able to, like, connect with him. And it's something that it means the most to me. And it also means so much to him. Like, we were, it was such a, I, like, loved this moment so much.

We were at, I also want to contextualize. I do not go to clubs, but I went to a club in the night with him. And we were out and we're both standing on a table. And, like, we were, like, at the same table, but we're on opposite sides. And it's all just like, you know, this, like, rap music and whatever. And that's great. But I hear, like, when I tell you, so far in the distance.

Like, no one else in the entire club heard this. And it was just like, gung, gung, gunk, gunk, gunk, gunk, gunk, gunk, gunk, gunk, gong, gunk, gunk, and I was just like, and I heard around the world by daf punk coming in from, like, literally seven miles away. That's so cute. I just, like, love that so much. And I just think that's so special that we both, like, and we have the same. music taste, like, exact same. Like, we get in the car with all of our friends and we're, like, playing songs and all of our friends are like, why are they, like, singing, like, the bejies

at the top of their lungs? And we just want to listen to Travis Scott. We're like, no, like, let us do what we want. It's just, it's just special that we've been able to connect over music now. It's so awesome. Was that, like, a big thing in your household growing up? Did your parents play music? My parents are tone deaf. And my dad, like, played guitar, like, a bit, but, like, for fun. But they both have really good music taste. Yeah. So I think that they... Who were you listening to growing up? My dad's the biggest grateful dead fan. Hey. Hey.

The biggest, like, has gone to literally 85 shows. My mom put me onto a lot of really cool stuff growing up. She was, like, she was a big Portishead fan. She loves, like, she wants revenge. Like, there's so many, like, cool artists that she put me onto really, really young. I'm, like, trying to think of more. She definitely was the first person who played me, like, Nirvana. And, like, just so many things.

She was a really, she was more into music than my dad was, but like my dad definitely has cool music taste as well. But I started just really like living for the Beatles so young, um, like beyond. And my brother did as well. And we would just listen to them all the time growing up. And my mom just sort of like adapted and played them all the time. And then like I started, you know, loving queen. Whatever. There's so many like incredible artists. But no, it wasn't. It wasn't my parents doing. I won't give them full credit. You're like my brother and my brother just got it on our own. For sure.

That's really cool. That's really cool. Yeah. Because I know like a big part. You're just always like you have the music in the background. Like parents are just always, I don't know, maybe it was a different generation of like a lot of smoking pot. And like there's like the Woodstock era. Like, not that I was alive then.

I was not. You always like, wait, what? No. You know what I mean? Like our parents with like the 70s music. Oh yeah. Totally. Yeah.

Like it was it was a different time for music. Yeah. So I know like, you know, that's just my memory. of listening to it. But for your mom to, like, introduce you to Nerva. I mean, that's cool. Yeah. But the Beatles, you know, they have my daughter at three years old when she was three. There's a show called the Beat Bugs and it's a cartoon and it's all Beatles songs. Oh. So she learned the Beatles and was like singing. She was like, when I'm 60, like at three years old and it was so cute. That's so sweet. I love that. How do you feel about people that don't like the Beatles?

I don't like them. Right? It's kind of hard, right? Red flag. I should have said that is my red flag. Oh yeah. Forget the R word. That's a red flag. fly. You don't like the Beatles. I don't like you. That's how I feel. And then there's... I got to a fight with someone like literally an argument about this the other day. Oh, good. Like an actual argument. Really? Because they didn't like the Beatles. What was their stance? I was just trying to say that I think that like Paul McCartney is one of the best songwriters of all time. And they were just like no. How do you say no to that? Who did they say was though? Like what's their opinion? Did they say? Did they list anybody? They did say, but I'm not going to say because I disagreed heavily.

Okay. Yeah. You're like, because I'm kind. I just like love. I'm just like, I'm just like, what are you saying? Like, we literally live on planet. To me, like, this Earth is planet beetles. And, like, we, like, just everything is, everything is them. And I just, I went, I went to Paul's show at SoFi last year. Oh, my God. Did you watch the documentary?

The Peter Jackson one. What's it called? Let it be. Wait, the one that's, like, just came out the, like, the colored one. And it's like, live playing all the stuff. I forget what that one was called. Yeah, I forget what it is, too. I mean, it was very, like, you were literally, like, in it with them as their writing.

It was, like, actually them. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, yes. It was very long. That was so trippy and crazy. It was trippy. I was like crying and like screaming. That was all I was doing. I just could not believe what I was watching. Because you see Paul like come up with the song. Just like watching like George and Ringgo. Like just like Sits in the back. Like he's just like drumming. And he's drumming like the whole time. He kind of like never stops drumming. And he's just like minding his business. It's so cute. I'm like I have like cute aggression towards him. He's so fucking cute. Curet aggression. I like really do. But no, I mean they're amazing. They are my biggest.

for sure. Like them and the Beach Boys right now are like my number. Love the Beach Boys. That's our music great. What about women? Who's your... I love Amy, of course. I love the Mamas and Pappas.

Julie London, I think is incredible. Currently, I mean, I'm a huge Lana Del Rey fan, Billy Ilish, Melanie Martinez. There's so many people I think that now are so great. Patsy Klein is like one of my faves. There's so many people. I think Leslie Gore is so cool because she was like sort of feministy

like at a time where there wasn't a lot of feminists and weren't like talking about fighting the man back then right so it's cool yeah I don't know there's a lot of

there's a lot of really incredibly cool artists Stevie Nex I mean whatever I can go on and on do you ever feel any like with your contemporaries do you ever feel pressure or like competition

or anything like that? I did for a while I think that I like grew out of that because I think there is room for everyone and I think that every artist shines in their own way. And I think that we also didn't sign up to be in like a beauty pageant. It's just not like, that's not why I don't think any of us make music. Sure, there's like a couple of examples and exceptions of people who like just want to be

famous and like that's it. But I think the real artists that just have a passion for music and have this drive and love for the art, I don't think we signed up to compete and I don't want to compete. And that's not what I care to do. like I want to support. Like I said, I want Charlotte to open up for me. Like I never want to like shy her away from like this new audience. Like I want her to, I want her to gain an audience.

Like I want. And I think it's so awesome. I think there's like so many artists that are, you know, whatever you want to refer to like bigger than me. But like more famous, whatever it is that I've gotten support from. Like Lana recently talked about me on a carpet and was saying that like she loves me. And like that's like that stuff is so cool because I think that someone like that clearly doesn't, it's not a competition for them. And they want other people to succeed and there's room for everyone. And I think that that's so important. I think as women, we all need to just uplift each other and not

like claw our way to the top. Yep. Because I remember when I got signed, it was like definitely a different time and a different ballgame of like, oh, like you, you want to be like the Beyonce. You don't want to be the this or that. Like you want to be top of the top. And that's just like not what I care about now. Like I care about making music. I would love to like do what Freddie Mercury did at Live Aid and like command a course. crowd of hundreds of people and that's sick. But that's not like why I do this. I really like, that's the goal for sure. But that's the goal because I want to connect with that many people. That's the goal because I want my music to reach that many people. I just like, I love making music.

It has literally been the thing that has, it's the reason I'm still here. It's the reason that I want to be here. I have not given up on it because it truly is my passion. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, like even just this album, I'm so proud of it. And it's like, it's genuinely, in my opinion really good. And I think that it's just like real music that I would, I would be proud of someone if they release that today because it's, I think it's very different than a lot of other stuff. And I don't know. I just, I just feel, I feel really good about it. And I'm just excited for it to come out. And it sounds like you're surrounding yourself with people that are mirroring that. Lana's an angel. I love Lana. An angel. Angel. She's one of the sweetest people. Incredible. But to be in that kind of

company where you're with other women that are like, no, this is all, you know, rising ship. What is it? Hmm? A rising tide rises all ships. I understand. You know what I mean? It's like it's coming from the abundance mentality of like there's enough for you, there's enough for me, there's enough for us.

There's not a fucking. There's not a fucking people in the world. Yeah. I'm sure like 50 artists can be big and like like I think we're okay. Not more. Like it's, yeah, there's just there's no need for it. I think there's no need for it. and like you will die trying to be number one.

Yeah, right. What does that even mean? What does it even mean? What does it mean? Yeah. You could sell the most tickets. Like, cool. Yeah.

Do you think that in any way your looks have gotten in your way of you being taken seriously? Yeah, I do. It's something that I've like tried to talk about. And I think people don't like when I talk about it because I think they're just like, oh, shut up, Madison, you're complaining she's pretty. And I'm like, that's just not what I'm trying to say. It's more so that I feel like I, I, I do get labeled as dumb or probably not talented or probably there's no way she directed that video

or there's no way she wrote that treatment when in fact I was doing all of it. And it's just I have been dismissed a lot. I've definitely been like, I don't know, perceived as not someone that could do the things that I do. And I do think that's because people maybe think I'm pretty and that's nice. And I appreciate it. But it's just like I said earlier, like that's just not what I care about. And I think that it's like the least important thing about me. And it sucks when people, like, I'll read online.

Someone's like, oh, she would be nothing, you know, if she wasn't pretty or she, or just she's only a pretty face. And I'm like, that just, in my opinion, couldn't be further from the truth. And I don't, I always tell everyone that, like, I do believe that if I started, like, wearing a mask or whatever, like, I still think that my music would connect and I still think that people would, like, enjoy me. And I think I'm a good person. And I just, I don't know.

I've, like, stopped letting that be a narrative that I even, like, believe. Good. because it's just, yeah, and like that's been a lot of therapy. And like, it is something I did believe for a while where I was like, is that all I have to offer? And I sort of leaned into it for a bit where I was like, yeah, it is all you have to offer. So that's like what you have to capitalize and blah, blah, blah. But I think that I just started realizing that like, no, like, I'm, I love myself because of the things I mentioned of like, I am a good person and I have good intentions and I mean well. And I want to make music that connects and I want to tell stories that relate.

And like I just that those are the things that I really care about. So I just don't. If people want to say that about me, then go ahead and you can feel how you want to feel. I don't feel that way. And I think that if people met me, they probably hopefully wouldn't either. And that's kind of it. It's the least important thing about me genuinely. And obviously that wasn't you complaining.

That was me asking because, you know, I do think sometimes that happens to not just women in general, but people in general, is that they're pigeon held by the way they look. No matter what that look is, whether it's beautiful or different. or anything. It's been something like throughout history that we've seen though. It's just like, you just like,

I just don't know when it's going to be something that there's like a poem called Pretty Pretty Pretty Bird. I don't like know what off the top of my head but it's so awesome and it's just, it's just talking about like how

sometimes you can like scream from the top of a roof and be like, oh my God, like I have so much more to offer world. Like look at me and I'm and like hear me. Don't just see me. Hear me. and feeling like no one will listen, no one will listen,

and they just want to look, look, look, look. And I say that, like, I felt like I've spent a lot of time being looked at and not listen to, and I feel like that's, like, just true for me. But this, like, poem is so awesome, and it's talking about how the bird sort of, like, was this beautiful bird that no one cared about, no one listened to, and then, like, finally, it wasn't beautiful one day

because, obviously, beauty fades, everything's going, you know, we're all bones and skin at the end of the day. So, like, it, like, and then she kind of had no one around her. And it just was this like such a sad thing of like you. So what? Like no one cared about you. I'm not saying this right.

But no one cared about you unless like you were pretty. And that just sucks. And that's like something that I feel like that's why it's been important for me to like do things like this and talk. And I'm just like I don't want that to be the focus. And I'm it's lovely and it's so nice that people say that about me. And obviously it's a compliment. But that's like kind of the last compliment I care to receive. It's like funny.

Well, because it really has nothing to do with you. It is not. You know what I mean? It doesn't. It's like. You were, you know, you were drawn that way, whatever, but it's not, it's not really your contribution. It's not that big of a compliment to you. No, like I chose to want to be smart or want to be nice and like, I, like, I didn't, I don't know.

There's just, there's a lot of, it's, it's a tough topic because people definitely get, like, angry. And I've had discussions before, but people are just like, oh my God, like, it's, it's so hard to listen to her complaint about, like, being pretty. And I'm just like, that just couldn't be further from the point. because the point is really just me trying to say that I have more to offer than that. Yeah. Complaining about it. I'm just saying that like I have more, try to see me for more, you know? And I don't, I don't know what it's going to take to, like, fix that.

I feel like it's a good time for women. I do. I feel like it is a good time for women as far as creators go in whatever medium that is. I think women's voices are important and I feel like they're being heard more. And I feel like, I agree. You know, it's a good time for. for you to use your voice. Yeah, definitely trying.

Good time for your book. It's a good time for your book and your singing. Albums. And we want that. Yeah. What's the strangest or funniest encounter you've ever had with a fan? Strangest. Or funny.

You can go funny. You can go whatever you want if there's one that you can think of. Oh, okay. So this is funny because it happened somewhat recently. I was driving in L.A. And I never have like my windows down or anything. But recently I've been driving without music on, which is like weird. I do that all the time.

Lately like zero anything. I just drive and don't listen to anything. And I'm sitting at a red light and I hear my song, Stay Numb and Carry On, which is a pretty small song off my album that not many people. It's not a popular song. And I hear it and I'm like, is it coming from my phone? Is it coming from the radio? Like what the hell?

And so I rolled down my window and I hear it loudly and I hear someone singing along to it. And I'm like looking around and I'm out of red light and I'm like, I can't see the person. And I look at my rear of mirror and there's someone, I could see them singing at like three cars behind. So I sort of let the cars like pass. And as he's driving by, he's, I see him. He drives by quickly. He doesn't see me. And I like kind of follow him a bit.

And I see that he's wearing my merch as well. He's wearing a Madison beer hoodie. And I literally, like, I was like honking and like, I didn't know how, like, what am I supposed to do? Like, how am I going to get your attention? I'm like honking and honking. And then I just like pull, I literally like, not like cut him off, like pull like right next to him. And I'm like honking, honking, honking. And he turns and he looks at me and he's like, he goes like, what?

And then he, it takes him like three seconds to sort of like register. And he freaks out. I like almost literally we almost call us an accident. And I was like, pull over, pull over. So he pulls over on the side of the road and like we both get out of the car. And I just like, like, hugged him and talked to him for like 20 minutes. It was so cute.

It was so cute and wholesome. And he was, he just like couldn't, but he was like, what the fuck is going on right now? I was like, you are so cute and so sweet and so amazing. And I can't believe that you like love me this much. And it's so, it was the coolest thing. You're an angel on earth. Oh my God. No.

That literally brought tears to my eyes. Oh my God. Like you made his life. That is just amazing. He definitely was freaking out. But little things like that have happened I'll be in line. Oh, I literally was like,

I'm getting, I'm getting, I'm getting, I'm getting, I'm getting, I'm getting this person. I'm hugging you. Yeah, like I was in line at like,

Earth Cafe one time and there was a girl wearing my like merch and I was just like, hey, can I take a picture with you? And I'm so, I'm so, like, I'm so, like,

what if it's not her hoodie? What if like her, it was her friends? Oh my God. And she borrowed it in. She doesn't actually like, like, I'm like crazy, but yeah,

like things like that are so are so cool and so nice. We all tell ourselves those stories, though. Like, no, it's just like, it's like her friends, what's. She doesn't know who I am. I have a question, though. Is there a way we can change it from I'm so insecure to I'm humble or something? Because, like, does it have to be insecurity? Or is there a part of you that remains humble?

I think I've, it's that. But I've also been, like, conditioned to thinking that everyone hates me. So I think that I'm like, are they right? Is, like, the question. But also, no, you're right. I also am humble. Like I don't, I definitely don't think I'm cool or like the shit at all, which I don't think I am. So I think that that's like just, I think it's also just who I am.

Like I wasn't, I wasn't raised to value the things that I think a lot of people value, which is like followers and like cars and did it down. Who are you friends with them? What celebrities do you know? Like I just don't care about that shit. Like quite frankly, it doesn't affect me. It doesn't matter. So I think that's why like I also don't care necessarily that I'm like famous. like whatever I mean.

Like, I just think it's like, cool. It's like, I get embarrassed by it. Like, when I, when I, like, I'm out and when I'm like out in public and I meet someone who like has no idea who I am and they're like, oh, let me like get your Instagram. I'm like, no. Oh, no. Let me just give me my number instead. Like, I don't want you to have my Instagram.

Like, and humiliates me. Like, I genuinely feel embarrassed by it sometimes because I just, I don't know. Like, it's amazing. It's, it's. And then, and then it's hard when they will get my Instagram and then like the energy just shifts. And I'm like, no. Uh-huh. You're like, still be cool.

told me. That's not me. I lie. Oh, my God. I'm dying for someone to open and they're like, oh, 35 million or whatever. 35 and a half. Oh, my God. Why is that so funny?

Oh, my God. That's so good. And I like, shrank my house. You're like, oh, I'm sorry. Here's my phone number and my home address. I went to the festival the other day with my friend and we were just like walking around the festival and someone, this was funny as well. People also, I don't know.

Someone came up to me and they were like, do you know where the this stage is or And I was like, no, I'm so sorry. Like, I have no idea. Because I was literally just with, like, one girlfriend. I was in like a onesie walking around, a rave. And this guy was just like, wait, you look so much like Madison Bear, he said. And I was like, oh, my God, that's so funny. I get that all the time.

And he was like, have a good night, though. And I was like, we just sort of parted ways. And my friend was like, that's so funny that you don't feel the need to be like, I am her. And I'm like, what? Why would I do that? And then another person came up to me and did something similar. And they were like, I would ask you for a picture, but there's no way that you're her because why I would you be in like GA? And I was like, it's funny that people have this idea that like, again,

like I would like need to be like like like that took me a second. I'm like G.A. Oh, general. Yeah. I'm like no. Like it's like I just, I don't know. Like I value being like a normal, not a normal person, but just being like a human being and like having experiences that aren't just always like VIP and like this and that. Like I don't know. Especially some more like that where I can like go in a onesie with a hood up and not get recognized really and like just have fun. Right. I love doing that. Rachel does that too. I'll be like, does anyone ever tell you you look like? And I always out her because I get so excited for the person.

I know, that's the hard part. Do you know what I mean? Because I'm like, it's going to make their fucking day. She'll be like, yeah, I get told that. I'm like, it's her. I felt bad when when he walked away, like not thinking, like believing me that it wasn't me. Because I just said I get that all the time. But then I'm like, whatever. But I totally feel you.

But it's kind of weird to be like, I'm her. I know. I get it for you guys. But as the friend, I like, I want to make their day. So I'm like, do you want to make their day? So I'm like, do you want a picture? I do feel bad sometimes. Yeah.

There was, oh my God, I'm trying to remember. There was an incident where it was so funny. I had to show someone, this guy, my ID once because he didn't. But he thought that I was me, but then when I said I was, didn't believe me. Right. And I was like, are you saying I'm a catfish? Like, what's going on right now? But he was just like, he was like, there's no way.

And he just like wouldn't believe me. I literally even like showed him my Instagram. And I was like, look, it says like edit profile. And he was like, that's fake. He just did not believe me. And I was like, do you like, do I like, do I? look that different. Like what? And then I had to literally show him my ID. You got carded. Yeah. I was like, um, to prove yourself. Thanks, bro. Thanks. He was like,

I just didn't believe you. I was like, okay. Oh my God. That is so funny. So funny. You should not. Yeah. You're like, I don't really think I need to. I have this. I'm like, all here. Come on. The best is when I took you. I took her to my husband's work, like out in like home bunk Sacramento, like this outskirts of Sacramento. And, and. And, and. And, and. And, And everyone was like, why does that girl look just like Rachel Bilsen? And I was like, Jeff, you got to go tell them. It's her. It's her.

And they all came out. Do you remember this? No, I don't remember. How do you not remember? I have no memory. They got so excited because they didn't think in a million years you would be in some weird hospital in the middle of Sacramento. There you are.

You know? And I was like, I were at a rave in a onesie. Exactly. I like making people happy. I know. It's going to make their fucking day. It is fun. I know.

It's just sometimes it's hard. And it's like, do I want to sound like? Well, yeah, I am her. Yeah, I know. I get it for you guys. I always say, like, I get that a lot. Right. I get that all the time.

I get that all the time. Or you chase down your fans. I say, too. Or I stock my own fans. Yeah, I stock my own fans. It's the best thing I've ever. You're like, no, hold on a high speed chase. Oh my God.

The visual is so good. It is. Oh, my God. You, yeah. We, I don't even want to like ask for any of the funny thing. Well, just ask her. She doesn't have to answer them. I want funny things. Well, I already have.

Well, I actually do. Ask her funny things. Oh, this isn't funny, but. If you can only listen to one song for the rest of your life, what would it be? Oh, my goodness gracious. That's disgusting. You can pick three. Can I pick three?

Sure. We make the rules here. Great. That's so much easier. So hard. But I'm going to. say yesterday by the Beatles

they could just be like your free today that you would choose everything in the right place by radio and I'll say I hate this I'll say killer queen

okay that's what I'll say that's good I feel like that's probably not like accurate but it's just like what I had to say I know it's a hard one it's accurate today it's accurate right now For the rest of your life.

For the rest of your life. It's not here right now. Apparently, only three songs. I can listen to you forever. What's the strangest reason you've ever broken up with someone? Strangest. See, those, these aren't the funny ones. I guess, like, this one, I don't know if it was broken up with. We weren't, like, official.

We were dating, but, like, it was very short. It was, like, two months. He, like, just would spam text me, like, unbelievably to the point. Charlotte knows about this. To the point where, like, he, like, it would be within three minutes, I would have like 62 texts. No joke. Oh, no.

No joke. And I was like, this is he spelling things out? Like text by text? No, like literally like, hey, where are you? What's up? Hey, Madison, what are you doing? Why aren't you answering? Hey, what's going on?

Oh. I would check my phone and be like, you need to be put in a cage. Right. Yeah, you need your medicine. Whoa. Yeah. So yeah, that was like maybe the weirdest reason. Yeah.

I mean, weirdest is kind of weird. Other reasons were just like being really horribly. treated that. You're like really toxic. Yeah. Those are the best reason. Really. Yeah.

We want to get out of those. Would you? Nope. I'm not saying that. Why? Let's, here, I'm going to say what she won't say.

Would you rather accidentally send your mom a dick pick? Like my dick or like her dick or accidentally watch a sex tape of your parents. I mean, can we say like just like a nude? Yeah, a nude. I would definitely rather send her a nude because I like would. Yeah. Good morning. Good morning, Mama.

You made this. Thank you. What the fuck? Who would ever pick the ladder? That would be, I don't know. That makes me sick to think about it. We're going to blame it on Rob, our producer. Yeah.

Screw you. Rob. Yeah. Rob. You fuck it. No, he likes to come up with those ones. Go for it. You're going on a ski vacation with three close friends.

First of all, who are you bringing? You can answer that part first. I'm bringing my friend Alma, my friend Lucy, and Charlotte. Okay. Oh, no. Oh, no. There's an avalanche. And you all get trapped in your cabin.

Am I picking someone to die? Who would you eat first? Who the thickest? No. Who would I eat first? Honestly, probably. My friend, Alma, because she is. eats the healthiest. Oh, so she's probably be, you're going to get those nutrients, you're going to live

longer. She'd probably be, yeah, taste the best. Oh my God. That's amazing. That's wild. That is amazing. So all of them die except for me is what you're saying? I mean, they're all dead at this point because you're going to eat them. Maybe they're not. Maybe they're not. Maybe you're just trying to survive. Survival if it is here. Okay. I really actually respect that. That was smart. That was really smart. There was a lot of ways that could have gone. She just like eats healthy, like those Pilates and I'm just like you must be probably yummy. You're the yummiest.

I don't feel like I think that we end on that one because Okay. Yeah. That's perfect good. Can we not end on me eating Alma? Oh. One more. One more. You don't want to end on eating Alma. Okay. Well, this one isn't, I don't really want that one to be the last one. What are your age parameters around dating? Okay. Well, how young, how old. Where does it? What is it? I think that I don't do great with younger because I have like just lived a lot of life. And it's just like can be hard.

But like my current boyfriend is younger than me, but only like a year and a half. And also like we just are like best friends and get along really well. So I think that like he's an exception. But I don't know about like how old I would go. I don't know that I have like. That's a hard thing. I know that I have like a cap on it because like I could say 40 and then meet someone who's 43 and be like, wait, you're like amazing and I love you. I don't know. Right. I definitely think like a 20 year age gap is like a little strange. I do find like just to be frank. I find like the men questionable that go for like young young girl. Right. I do. Yeah. I do too. And I don't, I don't really. I've never gone for someone like in that big of an, like the oldest I've ever been with hooked up with whatever. I was like 21. And I think. think they were like 30.

Right. Like that's not that bad idea. But like that like also felt like okay. Like you're like when I was like 16, you were like in your 20s and like that's inappropriate. But I think that I don't know. I just get like disturbed by the thought of like, okay like you literally could be my dad. And like when you were in college, I wasn't even alive. Like that's weird to me.

Right. Right. It is. It is weird. I think it's like less weird if it's a one off. Like if someone meets someone and they connect and it's like whatever. But when they. There's obviously exceptions, but I think there's guys, especially in L.A.

that, like, literally pray on 19-year-old girls. And I'm like, you are 43, go home. No, it's literally what happened. Why are you praying on actual kids? Yep, bizarre. It is bizarre. But they're kids. And then you're, like, guys that date, like, 24.

But no one's you. Like, you at 24, I would get. Exactly. Like, there's exceptions. I think there are, like, exceptions. But the norm is that. The norm, I'm just like, mm-hmm. What are you doing?

Yeah, like, why are you, why are we trying to do that? all that young. Right. Exactly. Let's go there. Exactly. We could just like unwrap that. Yeah. Let's talk about that. I'm super excited for your book. Thank you. I cannot wait to read it. Can't wait to read it. You are so incredible. Thank you. Just being around you feels like I'm surrounded by the sun. You're amazing and so speed. Oh my God. I'm about you. Oh, you're, I can't. I can't with you. Thank you. Thank you so much for being and talking to us today. It's so fun. And yes, I'm really excited. And for all the albums, I won't say much. Yes. Your face looks better.

It's still swollen, but thank you. So, really quick. Let's catch everyone up. Olivia had her wisdom teeth removed. Olivia almost died. Yeah. Sounds like. There was like a two-week window where we weren't sure she was going to make it.

It was brutal. Explain what happened. Well, I went to get my wisdom teeth removed and my jaw was locked. So they said, we can't open your jaw. We cannot remove your wisdom teeth. Yeah, you had locked jaw like a pit bull. Like a pit bull.

We called her a little pit bull. And so they sent me to like an oral facial surgeon because I had to get the- An oral facial surgeon? Is that a thing? So Jeff calls himself. No, oral facial surgeon. Because they do like jaw surgeries.

It's not just a dentist where they pull the teeth out, you know? Right. Yeah. And then they were like, okay, come back and we went to do the surgery. They put me under, and I could feel it while it was happening. And they couldn't get my jaw open. So they had to start giving me ketamine and morphine and all of that while I was under. And then one of the teeth was fused to the bone.

So they had to go in and, you know, break it and saw it out and cut open. in the whole right side of my mouth. And so it back together. And it's been an absolute living nightmare. And my jaw is still locked. Wow. But you know what's really crazy? Is that one of my really close friends is going through the same exact thing.

Her left side. What? Nadine, I didn't tell you. No. While this is going on, her face, we're sending each other pictures back and forth. her face is completely swollen like mine was the left side both of our jaws are locked

I'm like how is this possible what isn't that weird that's really weird yeah I'll send you a picture doesn't look like your jaw is locked what does that mean like as much as you can open it that's as much as I can open it

poor Jeff you've been just like having soup only yeah I can't eat it's depressing she can only open it like an inch you guys it did affect my mental health I'm not gonna lie Made me feel really depressed. All the drugs and medicine and experience.

You know, they say your teeth, like when you have wisdom teeth pulled or whatever, there is a connection to depression. Look, I'm not a sign. I can't, like, quote this factually and confidently, but I know there is some kind of connection there. There is apparently a link between, like, oral health and, like, dementia and things like that. Oh, fun. What?

Yeah, the, like, bacteria and stuff, if you have, bad hygiene in your mouth, there's been some studies that that can affect the brain. I have good hygiene. I have stuff stuck in my, you know, because I kept my wisdom teeth. Be careful. Every time I eat, I get food stuck there because they're hard to clean. That was the reason my dentist was like, you should probably go and get those removed

because they're hard to clean. But instead I got them all filled. But now every time I eat anything, I have stuff stuck. What do you mean? all filled, you got the cavities filled, or you got them filled so you can't get cavities. No, I'm pretty sure they all had cavities and I got the cavities filled. Or maybe they were preventative. I don't remember. It was a long time ago. But I currently, right now, I have some sort of. Pistrami.

Stuck in my, like a meat, stuck on my left side. Oh, it's so annoying. Well, anyway, what else has been going on? We all got back from Spring break. Well, you're kind of on it, Olivia, but Rob went away. Yeah, does it really count a spring break when you bring kids with, though? That's what I realized this trip. What do you mean? It's their spring break, not ours. Tell us about your trip.

This barely counts as vacation when you're dealing with kids the whole time. No, I saw a meme. It's like, when you go on vacation with kids, it's just taking care of kids in a different location. Yeah, I didn't love... I had the, like, idea that this was going to be a relaxing week.

Uh-uh. And it was not. I don't know why I thought that. Going with your two young children, you thought, hey, this is going to be relaxing on a road trip? Yeah. I don't get it. No, yeah, yeah. I mean, it was fun, and we made memories that I'll remember. Did you make memories?

Actually, living through it was all right. Well, it started off with, like, a lot of vomit, right? Yeah. Yeah, Calvin threw up three times in the first hour and a half. of the drive. Oh, that's so brutal. But he has a record. It was in a bowl the whole time.

But we took away the iPad after that and he didn't throw up any more times the whole trip. Yeah, motion sickness, man. And then we drove an hour up the one because at like 46 is one you can cut in. Drove an hour up and then realized it was closed. Oh, you had to drive back? Drive an hour down.

Oh, that's awesome. To then cut over and go back up. Who does the driving? You are Natalie. I was driving. She was in the back with both boys. The whole time. Yeah. You do all the driving.

Yeah. Does Jeff do all the driving? Yeah. Three, four hour drive each day only. Oh, that's not that bad. Yeah, because we stopped on the lay up. And then Sam Fran to Napa was only like an hour and a half. Hmm.

Brutal. And what all did you do? I don't remember at this point. We had a couple nice dinners. Yeah, well, you got a nice little gift treated to the French laundry. Yeah, that was incredible. That's a very fancy restaurant in Napa. Thomas Keller.

Yep, Thomas Keller. We had Rintaro in San Francisco, which is really good, too. And then we did the Oak Charter also. And is this all with the kids? You got babysitters for French laundry, right? The charter, oh, what was the other one? Yes, so we had Natalie's cousin lives in Oakland. So she came to San Francisco to watch them when we went to Rintaro.

And then we went to Napa. She was supposed to watch them, but didn't realize it meant coming to Napa. So, like, a day or two before, she was like, I don't really want to. Oh, uh-oh. You can bring them to my place in Oakland. How far is that? Like an hour and a half? Mm-mm.

So we couldn't do that. So then we ended up having to find a nanny service the morning of the dinner. Oh, relaxing. How'd that go? Worst case, we were just going to get her a room nearby and have her come up. But the nanny service worked out well. Did it? Yeah.

Yeah. Concierge at the. hotel had like some service they use a lot. Oh, okay. That's cool. And Calvin's a sweetheart. Like I could imagine it's not a hard transition to leave him with someone. No, it's Vincent's getting kind of separation anxiety right now.

Because we have a nanny starting next week. Oh. But like three days a week for three days a week for a few hours. Is Natalie going back to work? She's going to work for me. That's right. Baby. So he, when strangers come, he gets kind of freaked out.

But he was in bed before she came. Okay. So does Rachel. It was totally fine. Yeah, I do. I get excited before strangers come. And then we did bring them to the charter oak, which was less fun with them. Yeah, well.

But we had like a little private yurt for it. A yurt? You eaten a yurt? Yeah, they had like a yurt dinner. I want to eat in a yurt. It was really good. They grow like all their produce and stuff on their property. Dang.

That's really cool. I want to be your kid. See, I'm telling you the website with your restaurants. Oh, yeah. People did write in about it and say it was a really good idea. Our side hustle. Yeah. All right, Rob.

All right. Yeah. It's on and popping. And what other thing to add to your list? What? How was your spring break? It was very jam-packed. We went to Disney World and we went hard.

We were only there for a few days, but it was actually a lot of fun. Briar had a blast. It's fun now because she loves all of the roller coasters, you know? Yeah. So we went ham on some coasters and then flew back and drove to Palm Springs. How does it compare to Disneyland? Well, Disney World, there's four different things. theme parks. So, yeah, there's Animal Kingdom, Hollywood Studios. Magic Kingdom. Magic Kingdom is

basically Disneyland, you know, in itself. And then, um, Epcot. Epcot. Yeah. Thanks, Rob. And so they're all different. And there's different rides at different parks. And we hopped around and did all four and very, you know, and not a lot of time. It was jam-packed for sure. It was so fun, though. And there's one ride, though, you guys. never in my life ever will I go on this again. Why? I hated it. What happened? It's really old.

It's called like mission control or something. You go in and it's like a simulator where you're being launched to Mars, but you're strapped in and you're watching it. So it's virtual, right? And they're like, there's like a million warnings before you get on this ride. If you have motion sickness or da-da-da-da-da, you should refrain. It's the only ride that has puke bags at it. every seat.

Oh. Oh, yeah. So there's like... It's just like a computer screen in front of you though? Well, it's like you're strapped in and there's like a big screen and like it tilts you back and then you feel G-Force. Like it's like 2.5 G-force or whatever. So you feel that simulation and it was the most nausea and you're spinning.

It's mission space. Oh, no, no, no. Mission space. Thank you. Is it like the new Star Wars ride at Disneyland? No. No, no. No, no. I've done that. I don't love that. That gets me a little sick.

Yeah, because they're going up and down a lot. Yeah, I did do the Avatar one, which is also virtual. Like, you know, like you're riding on a bansche. I've never seen Avatar, but that ride was awesome. But that fucking mission, what's it called again? Mission space. You guys? Well, there's two ways. You can do the easy way where you're not spinning and stuff or the orange way. It's green or orange. And of course, Briar's like, we're doing orange. And I didn't want to go, but she didn't want to go without me. Because she got scared. So guess what mom did? I went on it for the first and only time.

I don't, never again. You don't know your, it was the worst. It's the worst, I don't know why it exists. It's awful. So anyway, but you know what the best roller coaster is?

Anyone going to Disney World, if you can do this, the Guardians of the Galaxy roller coaster at Epcot is the best roller coaster. It's so fun. It's an actual roller coaster? Yes, it is. Drops and.

Yeah, it's a roller coaster. It's so. So fun. But it's like a, I don't want to give anything away. But it's more like a roller coaster, like Space Mountain, like you're inside and it's kind of dark. I don't know if I'll ever make it there. You're going to make it to Disney World one way or another. You think so? Why? Yes. Because like I went as a kid. You're just like, it's a trip you take like with kids. Don't you just go to Disneyland? Yeah, you do. I don't think I'll ever take Calvin. Vincent's there. All right, guys. It was a lot of fun. Okay. I remember immediately just shitting on her vacation. Yeah, I don't think I would ever go there. I would never do that.

Guys, I had fun and we stayed at Animal Kingdom and there's animals. Can you hear Shepard screaming? No, what's he screaming? Because my brother's babysitting and I can hear him trying to control Shepard. And I'm like, oh. Did you darken your hair? I did. Oh my gosh.

Yeah. Well, because I got my roots done and then I was like, you might as well throw a toner on it to make it all. Yeah, it looks pretty co-sys. This is all while you're under. Yes. Got my nails done, my hair done. I'm like, while I'm under.

I was watching the Kardashians. That was one of the things I did while I laid in bed. And the mom, Chris, was being put under for a surgery. And they were like, is there anything else you want to get done when you're under? And I was like, oh, my God, that's hilarious. That is hilarious. under, like, you want new titties? Like what?

What? I was like, oh my God, that was that easy? I guess. So guys, introducing my new. You guys got to watch beef. Oh, is it good? I started it. It's great.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I heard it's good. We've only watched a couple, but it's Ali Wong and Stephen Yoon about like a road rage incident. Stephen Yoon is like who you always try to put in Fuck Mary Kill, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I saw something written up that it was really good. You would like it.

824 did it, so that means it's good, basically. Yeah, basically. That's how would I go by? And I like her. Oh my God, he's screaming. You weren't gone that long, though, right? What? You were only gone a few days, right?

To Disney World, yeah, and then Palm Springs after that. So fancy. It wasn't fancy where we went in Palm Springs. It was not fancy. but it was fun. We had a good time. And you know what, Olivia? We went to the Living Desert Zoo on Friday.

I'm looking at Leah's Instagram and I'm like, that's weird. Those giraffes look like the giraffes prior fed today. And we were both at the Living Desert Zoo in Palm Springs on the same day at the same exact time and had no clue. Either one of us was there. What? I know.

How weird is that? That is creepy. That is weird, right? Yeah. Super creepy. I know. I was like, wait a second. Madison.

Do you know? She played us a song after. Yeah. It's been stuck in my head ever since. Has it? Yes. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah.

Didn't it make us both cry? Yeah. Yeah. It's really good. It's really good. You know what I didn't realize is that she sings one of Shepard's favorite songs, which is the theme song for Clifford, the Big Red Dog,

which I had to listen to every day of my life, had no clue it was her. Oh my gosh. I know. Big love in a small house. And you didn't know that, or you didn't think about that when she was here? No, because I don't really know the titles of things. And, you know, he listens to the music from Sonic, Lyle Lyle Crocodile. and Clifford the Big Red Dog.

Well, he's moved on. It was Nightmare Before Christmas forever. Correct. Do your kids get stuck on songs? Yeah. Calvin, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. He likes the cool music, I forgot.

Yeah. Well, the funny is, is when he'll tell Alexa, well, I'll hear him in the middle of the night because it'll eventually turn off. The middle of the night. And he'll wake up and just want music on to go back asleep. And he'll be like, Alexa, play Dr. Dog. That's so cute.

Just in his little voice hearing it. But he's mispronouncing every other word. Aw. It's so cute. Breyer's like, you know, moving on to all the, like, I don't even know what you call it. Taylor Swift? Well, yeah, but she's always loved Taylor Swift.

But, like, you know. Top 100? Well, she's been watching Wizards of Waverly Place. Like, she's just discovered that. So, like, we've been listening to Selena. I'm trying to think of the song she's always asking me to play. I don't know, there's a lot of Megan Trainor

and all that stuff. It's what we do in my car. Yeah, we took a pretty specific stance that we weren't going to let Calvin get into too many kids songs. No kidding. It would just torture us. You know, I didn't mind it.

It gets old after a while, but I like the way you know, Shepard's starting to sing and he doesn't even really talk much, but he's like starting to sing because he hears them so much. So you're like, you're like Dr. J. Chronic. Yeah. He can, yeah, you can do that to good music, though. But he screams until he gets what he wants. And I give him what he wants. I was, you know, Nicole posted they went on their camping trip, whatever, and no devices for the whole trip. And she said it was really hard at first, and I wasn't thinking about it. And that would be a huge battle. But, like,

she won and think about, like, what they did. They were totally present and just playing. And I thought that was so awesome. Do you get jealous of Jeff's exes, Olivia? She sure does. No, I don't. What? I don't get jealous of his exes. You get funny. I don't get funny. Like, I don't have a twinge of jealousy about them. Because they're not... Because you won? It's not even that. If Jeff's ex was like, Rachel, I would.

You know what I mean? Or if Jeff's ex was like somehow even... His exes are nothing like me whatsoever. You're saying they're unimpressive. I'm not saying that's super meaning. You're saying they're not threatening. I'm just saying they're not threatening. They're unimpressive.

I don't get jealous of them. In fact, I even like invited some of them to his birthday party. Like, I'm usually pretty good. That doesn't mean I want him hanging out and talking to them if they're inappropriate, you know? Do you get yourself? If they're inappropriate. Wait, but you get like funny. Well, she does.

She gets funny. I'm not, okay, maybe not exes, but like there's like a cute girl that like is that his work. I've gotten funny one time in 10 years. Okay, well, that counts. And it was only one time, and it was only because I could tell by his face that he thought the girl was cute. And it made me uncomfortable. So then if you found out that he was with, like, Reese Witherspoon at one point, that would make you jealous, though? Yeah.

Remove the fact that it was, like, a secret that he never told you about. Yeah, they'd make me feel really weird. Oh, that's weird. If he never told you, and then he'd be by the way. We're removing that part from the equation. That would be amazing if Jeff was with Reese Witherspoon this whole time and I had no idea. That would be awesome. I'd be like, well, you know, what are you going to do?

While you were married, though. Yeah, no, I wouldn't be cool with that. Would you date Ray's Wetherspoon? Would I? Yeah. Not Rachel. Hello. Of course.

What do you mean? Would I? What do you mean, of course? She's cool. I don't know. I don't have any problems. I don't have any problems with Reese, Weather's doing. We're not asking you have problems with her.

You don't have problems with? Yeah. I'd be, I mean, I'd be open to it for the most part. Like, you think she's super attractive and, like, cute and pretty nice and, like, all the things is what you're saying. Yes. I really found her so attractive in the movie, Fear. You remember the fucking movie? That fucking movie, dude.

We were all obsessed with that movie. Obsessed. Like I'm wearing a skirt on the Ferris wheel with a cute dude. Yeah. One thousand percent. Have you seen it, Rob? I don't think so. Oh, my God.

You have to see fear with Mark Wahlberg and Reese Witherspoon. Oh, my God. And Alyssa Milano, right? Isn't Alyssa the best friend in it? Oh, yeah. She is. That's your homework. John Oliver's in it?

It is the best movie. John Oliver's in it, apparently. Really? He plays Eddie Clark and Richard Lewis. I also was obsessed with her and what's that other movie called it. I loved... I love Sweet Home Alabama.

I love that. But no, no, the one with Ryan Philippi. Cruel intention. Yes, cruel intentions. I don't know if I've ever seen that movie. Fear, though, is my jam, man. But I don't know, cruel intentions. Cruel intentions is one of the best movies.

Really? Legitimately, it's an epic fucking movie. Have you seen it wrong? Yeah, that was a pretty, like, big cultural thing. It was iconic. I know what it is. I think you should watch it. I don't know it that well.

Okay. Her tension with Ryan Philippi is... The what? The tension? Yeah. Between her and him? The sexual tension. Is that where they met?

I think so. And their attention is like... Oh, fun. I'm going to watch. Yeah, no, I like her in a lot of things. I'm trying to think of what else. I mean, she's been in so many things. Yeah, I don't know why everyone likes her.

We don't need to go over this. But you know what I did? I did read a book. Oh. I read it ends with us and I'm on the sequel now. And it's a tough topic, but like it's a really good book to read. It's very easy reading. What's the topic?

Can you say? I don't know if I should say Because I don't know It deals You know I think it'll even say On the book cover On the back

If you like read it But there's just stuff About like domestic Abuse and stuff You know Yeah So it's tough topics But it was a page turner

Tell you that much And I'm on Currently on the sequel The second book It's a barn burner It's a barn burner By the way guys There's like a

You know how you can like rent the inflatable water slide things for kids, right? And there's themes and whatnot. And whatnot. There was one that looks like the Titanic, but it's like only the half part of the boat and it's tilted down to the ground. Like it's the Titanic going under. Oh my God. That's next level. I know. Like it was a kid's party. And it was like, hold on, which makes me think of when I was in elementary school, you know how they would like teach you songs and choir and stuff? Or, Maybe it was at camp.

I think we were, sorry, I was at camp and they taught us this song. And it went a little something like this. Oh. It was sad. It was sad. Too bad. It was sad when the great ship went down to the bottom of the husbands and wives. Little children's lost their lives.

It was sad when the great ship went down. Yeah. And like we would all sing it. And like a lot, like not even. I said children's, by the way, plural. But we would sing this song, not even aware of like what we're singing. But we're just like, you know, roast and marshmallows like at the campfire. And that's the song we taught us at camp.

I mean, isn't that kind of like, isn't Ring Around the Rosie about like polio or something? Yeah, I think, is it that one? There is one about polio, I think it is that. Something like that. Like, we used to just sing cruel things. Cool, but even like Rockabai Baby, like the cradle's fucking falling off a tree.

Yeah, and the baby in all. Yeah. It's so brutal. Like, I don't think I listen to lyrics that much, but like Briar really, really listens to lyrics. Like years ago, she was probably, I don't know, Bad Blood by Taylor Swift was on. And she's like, Mom, I really don't like this song. I don't like a song about bad blood. Like, it was like to her, it was like this horror film. Wait, Rachel, sing, sing, sing some of the old songs you used to

sing to me. Do you remember we would do all those? You mean we would dare each other in bars? Yeah, I mean, we've done the disco one, but isn't there more? Like little Sally Walker? Let's, yeah, let's hear it. Yeah, let's hear it. No, it's like a game on the school yard. Let's do it. No, I'm not. You want me to do the school yard?

Like Olivia's dance, only if Rob joins in. Come on. Little Sally Walker walking down the street. Hey, she didn't know what to do so she jumped in front of me. We said, go, girl, do your thing, do your thing, do your thing, do your thing, do your thing, stop. And you'd go in a circle, and then you'd point at the next person, and then they'd go in the middle of the circle. they do their thing. Oh, great.

I love it. Do you have more? No, but, you know, we were roasting marshmallows in Disney World, and this woman came up to me and said, I love your podcast. She's like, I feel like I'm in the room with my best friends, just talking, and it's so comforting and everything.

And I just, it was really nice to hear. And so thank you for sharing that with me at the marshmallow roasting. Animal Kingdom. That's really sweet. I ate in the Beast's Castle. I was definitely more excited than Breyer. What'd you get? I tried the gray stuff.

It's delicious. You know, in the song, like, that was my favorite. They say it too. Because Lumiere's like, Try the great stuff. It's delicious. They can sing.

They can dance. After all, this is France. Oh, I'm such a Disney nerd. But what did you eat? I think I had French onion soup and I had a wedge salad. Those are two of my favorite things in the world. And, you know, they're pretty like, if you have to just go with something that you know is going to be at least decent, you know? You go with that.

Yeah, I mean, that was exactly what we ate at French laundry. Was the food so fancy that you didn't get full, or was it, like, good? I was very full by the end of it. Like, there was, like, six dessert courses. Six dessert courses? Yeah. There were so many desserts. And then they brought you, like, chocolate after that. too, that I had to just like try everyone and could not finish any of them. So many courses.

What was the best thing there? There was this oysters and pearls thing that was oysters and caviar in this like broth. Did Natalie like it? Was there like no dairy? Did you do like a special?

Yes, there was only like two things I had to modify that had dairy in it. But she did the like vegetable menu as well. Oh, got it. Because you can choose your meat-heavy one or your vegetable one. So it ended up being like 30 different courses between the two meals.

Because we were also both trying each of them. Wow. That's so fun. I know. That sounds like a blast. I want to go to a nice dinner. Let's do it. Just once.

Oh, you mean romantic. We invite you all the time out to dinner. No, you don't. Maybe not. Because he knows that you don't want. He knows I won't leave the house. We stop inviting you to things because you don't leave the house. I don't leave the house.

We should do another nice dinner. We did the girl and the goat. That was fun. We should do Meteora. Okay. See, I'm down. Oh, yeah, you've been saying that. I'm going there for my guys' dinner this morning.

Your guys dinner? Is it once a month? Yeah, it's turning out to be once a month. That's cute. It's so cute. I love that. And I think in June, we're going to do mammats. and do like ski trip for my birthday and the Vultagio restaurant.

Your birthday. Well, sounds like the pizza oven is going to be your Christmas and birthday present since that's not fair. We have to get him a birthday present too. The pepperoni. Just a couple logs of pepperoni. Yeah. Yeah, like really high quality pepperoni. Yeah.

We had it shipped in somewhere, fulgin' bougie. From Italy? Yeah. You know what? show I started watching that I really like. What? Shrinking. Oh, yeah.

It's good. It's really good. Did you get to the Phoebe Bridger's scene? No. Not yet. I just started it. Chris does adorable in it. Aw.

It's really good. I really like it. All his stuff, Bill Lawrence's stuff, has so much heart in it. Like there's just some formulaic genius there. Yeah, he's doing something, right? Yeah, it's really good. Okay. I'll put that on my list.

Just thought you should know. Well, I started The New Love is Blind, so I have to get through that first. Oh. Are you guys watching Succession? No. I need to finish the last season first. I have catching up to do. Did you watch the show we just started Severance?

Did you watch that? Adam Scott's show? Yeah. No. It's a trip. This is like... I know. It's like...

You guys are just all-named shows that came out like a year ago that everyone really into. That's how long it takes me to get to a show. Have you ever heard of this little show that won all these Emmys? I think it's called Severance. But I don't know if you guys watched it. Yeah, yeah. I watched pretty much every show that's out. How do you, I guess because you stay awake longer.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I watch while I work a lot. How? What do you mean? I have a TV like six inches of, above my head here. And if I'm not like actually listening to any audio and just doing any of my other like

work, I watch TV during, I always have something just kind of thrown on. But how do you pay attention while you're doing something else? It's the same way you do when you podcast. I was going to say, it's me, right? You're like me. Yeah. So, I mean, there's specific shows that I can't do that with that need more attention. Mm-hmm.

Or anything subtitled. I can't do that way. But most the, most of the stuff I will. Like, Shrinky and I was able to pay attention to that enough. That's not, like, too intricate of a plot that I can't half watch and get what's going on. Hmm. Okay. Okay.

So, my brother's been staying here. Okay. How's that been going? You know, it's going good. It's really easy to be around. You hadn't seen him in three years? Three years. What was your relationship, like, prior to the three years?

We're really close. Okay. like super hardcore brother and sister. Yeah. So he's been staying here and he's been working out with Jeff and they work out in the backyard like it's a prison. And he has been, he never wears a shirt. Okay.

The guy never wears a shirt. So then Jeff starts working out with him. All of a sudden, Jeff's shirt's gone. I'm like, oh, okay. You're just not going to wear a shirt now. Then Elliot seats Jeff not wearing a shirt So he takes his shirt off And starts not wearing a shirt anymore

And then Shepard started sucking on his shirt So I had to take his shirt on I'm in a house With all these There's four shirtless men Roaming around my house at all times Like it's a prison cell You should leave our recording

And just go topless- That is hilarious No, Olivia. Allison Bree just goes streaking in my own house. Yeah. It's really funny. They're all walking around with no shirts on. I'm like, this is, I'm like, are you guys going to start, like, building cars in the front yard?

Like, what's going on here? Did your brother come back from jail just, like, ripped? Or was he already? I'm going to be completely honest. And I'm going to hope he doesn't ever listen to this because I don't want him to. But he's always been ridiculously buffed. Like it's embarrassing He can't put his arms down buff

But he did get a little bit chubby and his little Like he got a little meat on him this time He's not like shredded like normal Got it Age but Jeff's getting buff Because David's training him Oh nice Yeah looks good

That's a good trade off I like it It's like having a personal trainer live there That's exactly what it's like That's pretty good Yeah I'll walk out there And they'll all be doing pushups To all of them

Because Elliot First Rachel's thinking over there She's like, I need an ex-cond to move in with me. Yeah. I'm sure there's many with your face tattooed on them. Oh my goodness. Let's talk about that again.

Talk about what? The fact that someone has your face tattooed on their body. I know. I saw another tattoo of Little Miss Vixen was the comic book character of Summer on the O.C., and they have Little Misfixen on their leg or something. With your face? Yeah.

But like my comic book face. How does that feel? Not like my face. No, I get it. But how does that? No, like a comic book face. No. I mean, Rachel, I get it.

How does that feel though? It's pretty crazy. I just more think like, why would you want something permanent? Okay, that's, but yeah, but like how does it feel that someone tattooed your face on them? I feel like your face is on a ton of hoods of cars. Mine? Yeah. How badly do you want your face to be tattooed on someone, Olivia?

I mean, I think when I was younger, that would have probably been goals, you know? Like, fucking, yeah. It seems like how much you bring it up. How much you bring it up about Rachel? Seems like you think a lot about it. I think it's mind-blowing that someone would tattoo someone they don't know's face on them. I think it's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy.

You know? And then to own that face and be like, that's my face. You must really like my face. You know? I mean, maybe I don't think about it. I know. I don't think you've taken it in. That's your response every time we talk about this. Is it?

Is it? Yeah. Well, it's like a weird thing to think about, right? Like, if I get too into it, I'll be like, hmm. Have you tattooed Natalie's name on you? No. Would you? No, I don't think so.

Do you think it's bad luck? I would get a tattoo that was symbolic to her, but not just like her name. Well, you guys got matching tattoos. We have matching tattoos that our friend Martha also has. And Matt, her husband has a similar one, but not the same exact one. Yeah, why didn't he have to like fuck it all up? I'm just being a pain of the ass. Do you think he'll ever get a tattoo, Rachel?

I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I don't have one yet. I'm like, yeah, I don't know what I would ever get unless it was, ah, well, what are you going to do? Right. Weren't we all going to get that at one point? Yeah. Maybe. Talk to me when I turn 50. Maybe I'll do it. That's the next big one, huh? Oh. God, that's so uncomfortable. Amazing. Yeah, let's not go there right now. That just shook me. All right. Well, love Madison. love you guys. Love everyone listening. Until next week. That was a hate gum podcast.