Broad Ideas with Rachel Bilson & Olivia Allen - Mena Suvari

Episode Date: November 28, 2022

Mena Suvari [American Beauty, Loser, American Pie] is this week’s guest broad. Mena, Olivia and Rachel discuss Mena being sexually assaulted by her boyfriend at just 12 years old, the cleansing process of writing her memoir, therapy, parenting, two near-death experiences and more.Broad Ideas is supported by Milk Bar. You’ll get $15 off an order of $80 by going to milkbarstore.com/ideas.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hax is back for its fifth and final season, and so is The Hacks podcast. Join the Hacks creators and showrunners, Lucia and Yellow, Paul W. Downs, and Jen Statsky as they unpack the Emmy-winning comedy series. On each episode, hear stories from the set, what goes on in the writer's room, and how these beloved characters close out their final season. Watch Hax streaming exclusively on HBO Max and listen to The Hacks podcast on HBO Max, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Broad Ideas.

So we have a very lovely, beautiful actress. She went to the same high school that I did. And I wasn't there when she was there, but I had always known her as someone that my friends in high school knew, and obviously she had a huge success in her career with American Beauty, American Pie, Sugar and Spice. I mean, she's been working for a really long time. And I always wanted the opportunity to talk to her and meet her. So I was thrilled that she was willing to sit down with us today. We have the beautiful Mina Suvari, who also has a new movie out now,

The Accursed. So let's welcome Mina. Sometimes when the way inside of Rachel's little brain, all these thoughts are swirling. round and round inside to join us on this journey as we take a little ride. We'll talk about dogs and kids and things. We'll talk about chicks and tampon strings. We'll talk about boys that'll make you... Because people die. We're so happy that you're here with us and just we're really looking forward to talking to you.

I mean, been a fan for so long. And I know that we have something in common. We went to the same high school. You went to Notre Dame, right? Well, I went two years to Notre Dame. I had freshman and sophomore, and then I went over to Providence. Right. So you were there right before I got there, but you knew all of my friends.

Or you were in their grade. You were in their class. I graduated 97. Yeah, they were all 97. Olivia, my lovely, beautiful Olivia here, who has been my best friend since high school. Oh, you went to Notre Dame, too. I didn't. I went to Graham.

But our best friends went there. Like, I'm sure you heard of Veronique maybe at the time. Yes. Yes. Yes. So that was like my friend group at Notre Dame. And so I always knew you went there because you weren't the same grade as them. Yeah.

Yeah. And then I left. Yeah. I think they graduated from there. Yeah. They did. Yeah. So you went to Providence.

I went over to Providence. I had a friend that was going over there anyway. And then I was ahead in a few subjects. And one of them was math. And there was kind of like a hiccup with them letting me go on to the next level of math at Notre Dame. And I kind of just felt like, you know what? My best friend was going to Providence anyway. And so I just made the move.

Yeah, I feel like that's so important at that age. You're like, well, that's what my best friend's doing. Yeah, yeah. She was kind of like my one solid friend. Right. At that time. So it was a better path for me to follow. But you're not from L.A., even though you went to high school there.

Yeah, no. Well, I was born in Rhode Island. I moved around a bit. And I lived in Charleston, South Carolina for a few years before I came out to L.A. So I came out here in 94. Were you going to Notre Dame when you did American Pie and American Beauty? I had already graduated. Oh, you had. Yeah. So I graduated in 97. And then I decided that I just wanted to take to me, like, the way I constructed it in my mind was like, I'm going to take a year off and really figure out what I wanted to. do. And I thought about going to Otis. I didn't really have, I wasn't that person who had it, like, completely buttoned up, you know, where I had an answer as a junior, you know, everybody, it felt like intense pressure to have everything mapped out. And I didn't. And so during that time off, I decided to, you know, just focus on my work, my career. And I just kept auditioning.

And that's when I booked American Pie. And then I booked American Beauty back to back and then I worked on them back to back and then they came out back to back. And then there was a time where I kind of had like a, you know, my like emotional midlife crisis at like 20. I wanted to go to college and I wasn't sure, you know, what I wanted to do. And I decided to keep focusing on my work and not take that time off then. So, so yeah. I have like three million questions. I really do. I was so excited to talk. to you. You've intrigued me from the first moment I laid eyes on you. I remember truly,

like there was something about you that you just wanted to keep looking and you wanted to know more and you had this like air about you. I mean, obviously American beauty performance was iconic and just so interesting for a girl of that age to be able to do what you did and like the energetics of what you brought. and then later on learning all that you went through before leading up to that and it all makes sense now. I'm like, oh, that's why she's so intriguing. And, you know, you were playing someone that lost their innocence. And it sounds to me from what I've heard and read that that was actually really accurate to what you were going through at the time. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. I've had this really weird thing. And it still happens. It's just very mystifying. I have this parallel between like what comes to me in my work life, what presents itself, and then personally what I'm struggling through. It's very wild. And I made that connection later in my life, you know, once I started to write the book and, you know, write about that time.

But yeah, it's always kind of been there where I've been given an opportunity, I feel like, in some way, to grow. Yeah. And for me then, I mean, if I didn't have any of that, outlet, I don't really know, you know, what would have happened. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's so crazy. I mean, if you can tell us a little bit or for, you know, everyone listening about the book you wrote and, you know, some of the things you talked about and all of that. Yeah. Where do you want me to start? Oh, God, I know. What I'm curious about, too, is I feel like, one, obviously, it must be freeing to speak your truth, but also I would love to hear the impact it's had on your life

being able to share your truth and help other people. Because I think that that's the real gift of your book. Thank you. Sure, it was probably cathartic to let it out. But like, really the impact it has on other people to be as brave and open and vulnerable. And that's what we want to do here is like remove all the stigmas of trauma, addiction, like all of that. Yeah. Yeah. I love to talk about all that. Because there's a lot of stigma. No, I really appreciate that. I mean, I feel like to a certain extent, it did kind of end for me after writing the book because I prefer not to live in that space.

It's really weird. Like I wrote a book, but it didn't feel like something I should promote. I never thought I was going to be the kind of person who would write a book. I never really considered myself like that. I sort of like, you know, categorized it as like, oh, everybody's got a book and a perfume, you know? I didn't have a desire to do that. And it's akela.

And next to podcast. No. No, but it just, it didn't feel organic for me. And then I just knew that I needed to talk. And that's the form that it came in. I initially danced with some ideas of like sharing my story in not such a open way. way. I kind of thought, you know, maybe I could create content inspired by it. But then once I shared,

I shared this binder that I had, which was all of my poems and some stories and then the diary, I shared that with a couple people. And they really pushed me to just, you know, write my story. And so I really did it for me. I didn't, I don't even really think about it. I feel like, if anything, the times where I have really checked up on it or whatever, like gone into that space, there's still like, you know, this is what I mean about the conversations that I think are important to have. It still feels like there's a lot more work to be done. And so I don't know. I'm very much at like, I'm trying not to fight as much anymore.

Like anything. So like anything. It is what it is, you know? And it's been interesting at times to like, I mean, I've had people come up. to me and say that they've been touched by my book. But I don't like live in that space because that's up to everyone else, you know? I mean, that's the greatest gift. And I've always kind of said, you know, if I could shave off a summer of suffering for someone, then I want to do that. I'm more than willing to be that person because it breaks my heart to ever think or consider

someone else going through a lot of what I've gone through. So, you know, it makes sense for me to give it. I mean, that's just how I live my life. I feel like that's why we're here. So yeah, I don't know. This old lady just doesn't want to play games anymore. And it's like we have to talk about these things. Yeah. I think it comes with age in motherhood and you're a new mother. Yeah, yeah. He's 18 months old. 18 months. Oh, you're busy. That's a busy age. Yeah, it's a lot, you know. It's a lot, I mean, in so many ways. I mean, I actually found out I got pregnant after writing the book, you know. So. Oh, that's interesting. That's why it was very cathartic for me. Yeah. Broad Ideas is supported by Milk Bar. Stressing over what to bring to all of your holiday get-togethers this year, milk bars got you covered with treats that are always a crowd-pleaser. Because let's be real. Everyone knows dessert is the main event, especially me. I'm obsessed with sugar. I'm also obsessed with the milk bar pie.

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they also offer fast, even overnight, nationwide delivery. Right now, Milk Bar has a special limited time offer. Get $15 off any order of $80 or more when you go to Milkbarstore.com slash ideas. You'll get $15 off an order of $80 by going to Milkbar store.com slash ideas. Milkbarstore.com slash ideas. The thing, too, is that you talk about such sensitive material. And the unfortunate thing I think about life is we really do get wiser as we get older, right? And the people who really need the wisdom that we've gone through or are going through are those young girls at 13 years old that went through things like you went through. And

And it's like, I feel like society at that age, everyone's trying to morph into being the same and being accepted and hiding. Yeah, more than ever. Yeah, more than ever. And the truth is like, and I'm sure you as a mom, are you sober too? Or were you in the past you had like when you were a teenager, you were into like the whole. Yeah, no, I wrote about all that. Yeah, no, not done.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So the thing is, is that as you get. get older, you get so much more comfortable with who you are and what you've been through and you can really detach from like, okay, that happened, but that's not who I am today. Well, hopefully. I think that's a great thing to bring up because I feel like that process is different for everyone. And it's a very intense process. And I think the thing that I've been a sort of like, oh, what's felt a bit surprising to me when you talk about how intimately I've

shared my story, I don't know why that's so. uncomfortable. Right. I think that we need to talk about these things. I believe that we all go through this. And what's interesting to me is experiencing the uncomfort from other people. And there's this thing, too, where it's sort of like, I should just be a girl and be quiet, or I should just be like a pretty girl and be quiet. Or I should just be grateful for what I have and be quiet. And I sort of understand. And I sort of understand, I think a little bit where you're talking about is like how we can hold compassion for ourselves like that. But I'm tired of sweeping everything under the rug to the point where I feel a lot of people are. I want to dust it all out and I want to clean it. Like I don't want to keep

I don't, I think the thing that doesn't sit well for me now personally are squashing our feelings. Like I don't think we need to do that anymore. I think we're allowed. to talk about something was difficult for me. It was challenging. Yeah. It almost destroyed me. I just, I don't, it's, it's interesting to me how that's kind of been like, oh, like she really went there. Right. Well, because people aren't used to it. And you know, generationally, if you think about it, like women in the 50s and, you know, what we've come through to where we are today, yes, it shouldn't spark in us that thing of, wow, she has courage. It should be like, of course, she's telling her truth.

But we're not really there yet. And it takes people doing it enough to neutralize it and normalize it. And, you know, the truth of the matter is I totally get, and I was thinking this. I'm like, is she sick of talking about that stuff? No. Okay, good. No, because if anything, I feel like when I did, it was like, things taken out of context, people focusing on something that, like, wasn't the point.

And it, I don't know. Because again, I don't want to, like, live in that space. I don't want to fight for it. But it was sort of like, oh, here we go. It was perfect reflection of like society and humanity. Like, obviously. But it just, it was sort of shocking to me. Like, really? Like, especially now, like, we can't further some of these conversations. Some of these ideas that, like, have already been brought to the table. It was just, that was a little surprising to me. So are you okay? I mean, I know you're okay talking about it. So obviously, but saying like some of the things that were brought up in the book. So for people who don't know. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Well, I have a book out called The Great Peace and there was a time in my life a few years ago where I was moving and I was going through a storage unit and I found my old diary from when I was a teenager. And I found a red, binder, like a school binder with about like 50 loosely of pages that I typed up on a old school typewriter of poems and stories that I wrote during that period of, you know, teenager after I just come to L.A. And I entitled it The Great Peace. And so when I came upon that again moving,

I was sort of surprised to find it, but I initially thought maybe I want to do something with this now. you know, maybe I really want to face this, but then I wasn't quite sure how I wanted to tell this story. And so then I decided to share my idea with a couple of people, and then they really pushed me to share it all as a memoir. I initially wanted to just publish, like, the poems, but it was just, the universe wanted more from me. That idea wasn't going to work. So it seemed like, okay, I sat with it for a minute. It seemed really terrifying, but I just, I don't know if I'll ever have the right words for that. It was just something that I felt really compelled to do and I needed to do it.

And so I wrote about from the beginning. What people don't know is because, as you've seen my tech skills earlier, I was writing in like the wrong format. Like I wasn't writing in Microsoft Word. So I technically wrote like two books. Oh, geez. And then, yeah. And ironically enough, if you don't know, there's a memoir format. So I had to kind of like shave it down, you know, until like I had to basically cut it in half.

Wow. Yeah. So the book that's out there now, you know, it is a bit structured. But I really tried to share from the beginning. And, you know, from being born in Rhode Island and then moving to St. John and the Virgin Islands, I lived there for a year. I mean, there's several times I talk about in the book. fell off a 30-foot cliff when I was eight. Like, there's so many things that, like, I should not be here.

And then we moved to Charleston, South Carolina. I started modeling again there. And I talk about that process of, you know, being 12 and, you know, kind of encouraged to go into this world. And then I talk about how my personal life, you know, this girl was just really trying to find herself and how my, you know, my work life came into fruition and how it ultimately really saves me. I talk about rape. I talk about drug abuse. I talk about, you know, lots of intense, very real things, you know. Yeah. I mean, you know, reading about that and being 12 years old and you do talk about rape and you had a boyfriend that was 16 and correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've been reading,

first of all, a 12-year-old girl. Like, if you think about that and you think of a, that is so young. And it is. And so going through, I'm sure what you were going through at 12 years old and having an older boyfriend, which also, like, that's a big difference too when you're 12 and 16. You know, obviously down the line four years isn't a big deal. But at that time in someone's life, like, that's a huge difference, you know? And I just can't imagine being a 12-year-old.

and experiencing what? You were a 12-year-olds with your... I was 13. Okay, you were 13. I was 13. With your brother's older friend, right? That's true. That's true. I was 13 and my boyfriend was 18.

So it's the same... I guess it's similar. I don't know. For some reason, I hear 12, and it sounds so much younger than 13. Because it's not in teen. But it's not, I guess. I guess you're right. I guess you're right.

I think what I tried to really share is that for me, it was never, it didn't feel like a choice or an option, you know? And I think that's all that really matters, you know. It doesn't matter. I mean, I'd like to say, you know, these are big life decisions. And, you know, if you can try to be in the healthiest frame of mind to make those decisions, you know, and that's wonderful. But yeah, I think it's so much about a joint decision, you know. Was that something you knew at the time? you didn't have a choice? Or were you under the impression that this is just what you're supposed to do? Or were you cognizant that you were doing something that was not your choice?

Well, and this is like why I probably wrote like a double book because I tried to really, you know, I really put everything into that because, and this is what I mean, like it's not about taking anything out of context. I tried to show that whole trajectory. Right. You know, because the mindset that I was in at 12, you know, all the little things that had happened to me as a very young person, I believe that it creates a mindset. Yeah. And I do have memories of feeling alone, very alone, that no one was ever going to ask, no one was ever really going to care, no one was ever really going to do anything. And so I just learned how to do everything on my own. And that's why no one noticed. I became very good at doing what was asked of me. And where were your parents

like around all of this? Do you have like a close relationship with them? Were they around? No, I never really did, you know. And I know that that's a big factor, but I don't know. And so I try to really say that it's not about them, you know? It's really about me when I shared my story. I never wanted it to be a blame game. It was something that I needed to really just talk about. This was my perspective on what happened to me. But no, I never had that kind of relationship that I would have hoped for with either of my parents.

And do you think that influences you now as a mother? Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. I struggle with that every day. Every day. Yeah. I struggle with postpartum every day. I Yeah. That's all I'm doing next month is testing my hormones. So yeah, it's all very real. Yeah. I deal with that every day of how do I navigate this space? You know, I mean, I have friends and, you know, I have very close people around me, but I don't have that as something that I wish I had. Yeah. Yeah. It's really hard. I mean, becoming a mom, like, it literally makes me emotional to hear you say that, like, that stuff you're facing every day because that, I mean, aside from the things you wrote in your book, like what you're going through in this moment, you know? Yeah, because I don't want to sugarcoat it anymore. And I feel really grateful to be here with you two and having this conversation because you're willing to go there.

But for the most part, I don't always feel like that. Yeah. And I know that you know that. You have to kind of, you know, you do your job. right? But I do want to help others. I don't think it serves anybody if I sit here and I act like I'm perfect and I act like I've got it together in a way that I don't, especially in this day and age. I'm really done with that. Right. I'm so happy for you. I just want us to like we're all trying to survive and do the best that we can and we have to help one another. And I think too that

and this is my perception is none of us are craving that anymore. It's like we don't want to see a perfect package of you. We want to know, how are you human? How do you do it? And to me, someone having it together is the person who can sit there and say, yeah, I'm experiencing postpartum depression. I'm sad. I feel traumatized. I feel like my life got flips up.

I feel lost. I feel broken. I still feel like there's two camps, though, of that, you know? It still feels like a bit divided, especially with women, you know? Well, it's divided within us. Well, yeah. But especially with postpartum and talking about, like, oh, I have it rough or, I don't know. Yeah.

But it's all relative, right? Because there's so many judgmental people out there. And so anytime you put something out, and especially someone in your position, there's going to be somebody somewhere with a remark or a judgment or a negative, you know, connotation, like towards whatever you're saying, whatever you're putting out. So it is hard. And I struggle as well, like even with this podcast, like I'll say things, you know, and turning 40, you know, when I did. And I kind of think like as you age and you're a mother and all these other factors and you're more open or whatever, but like struggling with depression for the first time or anxiety or whatever. And then people can have whatever comments they have. But I think it's so much more important to do what you're doing, what we're doing, making it very open. And I know it's relatable for a lot. And I also know that. There's a lot of people that have issues with many of the things we talk about or what you put out there. But it's just like, I don't know, it's all relative. And it's all, I don't know, it's so fucked up.

And you think about it honestly. It is. It is. And it's like, oh, poor her. She has postpartum. But like, she's a successful actress. And it's like, no, I'm a human or you're a human. Thank you.

Yeah, right there. And it's like, that is a, thank you. Thank you. That is a huge part of it. And I think that's what, like, I'm fighting for, too, is like, it's okay to have those emotions. Right. No matter what your circumstances, like, how unfair is that? Yeah. You know, I'm going to look at you and say, well, you have a podcast, you can't be sad that something happened in your life. Like, what? It's just so limiting. Well, and I think, too, it's a projection. Mm-hmm. It's a projection of a lot of people's mentality has been for a long time. If I had X, Y, or Z, I'd be happy. And there's a lot of people with X, Y, and Z that aren't happy, and people think it's an issue of gratitude, where it has absolutely nothing to fucking do with gratitude.

For some, it might. You know what I mean? But those people don't seem to understand that no matter how successful, how much money you have, how many accolades, you're human. And we're all dealing with a human condition on a daily basis. and it's not discriminatory on how much money you make. Yeah, no. Money isn't even real. Like, that's not even like the answer.

It doesn't matter, you know? Yeah. I don't know. It doesn't matter. To a certain extent. I mean, we kind of, it does. I mean, for certain things. But, I mean, ultimately, like, I think the real work of why we're here is not consumerism.

Sorry. That's just my opinion. I agree. fully, and what do you use, like, to help you through this? Because I think it's important, too, for people to hear different modalities or, like, have you gone to therapy? What's, what's your deal? Oh, yeah. I've always worked with therapists, I think, and I write about that. I talk about that in the book. I think it's very important for you to find the people that really work with you, you know? Like, if you have an experience, it doesn't mean that that's necessarily.

about you or something you shouldn't share. Just keep trying to find the right person. That's so important. Someone that you really vibe with, you have to feel comfortable. So I've done that. I feel really grateful to have a solid group of friends around me that, you know, just keep me inspired and grounded and I feel supported by. I work with, you know, different holistic practitioners. I told you I found a center recently where I'm doing, you know, hormone tests and blood work to learn more about my body physically. And then just, I mean, I have really good friends that like don't even live near me. And we do these kind of like voice note podcasts. We have this voice note podcast that we have going back and forth. And we just talk. We just rant to one another

about, you know, this is what you're going through. And this is how. You know, I felt today from this moment with my child or just share that. And it's like, it's, I'm so grateful for one of my girlfriends because, I mean, she's even said things to me. She said to me once that she shared things with me that she had never even shared with her best friend. And it was about postpartum. It was about not being perfect. Right. Postpartum is a thing. I had, um, postpartum anxiety and I had never even heard of that. Like, I've always had anxiety. and depression, all that I was used to. But postpartum anxiety was like something completely different. And I didn't know that people, and then once I said it, people, oh, yeah, oh yeah. And it's like, why?

How did you know it was separate? It was a different type of. You mean then depression? Oh, no, the anxiety. Oh, because it was so like I'd, at that point when I had my first son, I'd been sober for, I don't know, five years or something. and then I was obsessively, like right when he was born, I started obsessively thinking about drinking to the point where I was planning how I was going to do it, where I was, like, it became ruminating thoughts that I couldn't get rid of.

Wow. See, this is why we have to talk about these things, you know, to help one another. Yeah, it was dark. And it was like, oh, you're supposed to be so happy. You have a new baby. Yeah. All of that. And it's like I was.

I was in love with him. But I wanted to drink because the anxiety was so hard having this new little human that, like, needed. It was almost like I was mourning the person I was before him and all that stuff. And it became to the point where I really did have to get medicated because it was so dangerous for me. Yeah. Yeah. I remember sitting on our balcony freaking out saying, I have to get out of the house. I have to get out of the house. And we had, because I ended up with the cesarian, so we had a postpart of Abdullah with us.

And my husband, she was helping us. And they just looked at me and they're like, you can go. Can go for a walk. And I was like, but I didn't think I could. Yes. And I was freaking out. I was like, I have to do something for myself, but I can't leave. Yeah.

And they're like, you can. Yeah. I had to learn. I still struggle with. that. You know, that I don't have to be in his face 24-7 to raise a good human being because of my fear, you know? It's a lot. It's a lot of work, you know. It is. We talk about fear all the time with having kids. We're like, there's nothing. You think you had like fear, anxiety, all of that before. You have a kid and you're like, holy fuck. Everything is terrifying. And, you know, you have to work on it

Because it's those spots you have in your head. And it's like, I can't, I mean, I'm sure every mother has the thing like, oh, they're here. And then this X, Y, or Z bad can happen, you know, which I'm not saying everybody does. But I do it. And I have to check myself. And it's work. It's hard. Yeah.

I mean, especially Olivia had a very, you know, in her experience with her second, like, it was like fear from the beginning because he had a hard time in the beginning when he was first born. And we're always like, we love kids. We want more. We want to do it again. And then we're just like, don't have children. We go back and forth all the time. We're like, we're obsessed with them. There's no other love, but don't have fucking kids.

Yeah. It's a lot. I mean, yeah, just to give an example, and I thought about really writing about it, you know? I mean, if you learn of my life at all or you read my book, I mean, you have an idea of like where I'm coming from. I thought wholeheartedly I could have this like beautiful water birth that was so like holistic. Yeah, you're going to end up in the hospital. Yeah, I mean, I probably would have died if it was like the 1800s.

It was like, oh, you started off like with at home? We went into labor Thursday morning at 2 a.m. He was born Saturday at 510. So I did 24 hours at home without anything. I did 24 hours in the hospital with an epidural that they did. to redo again. Oof. And then I ended up with an emergency cesarian.

And so, and then I didn't, I don't want to take all this stuff. And they're like, just take it. And so I'm like, hi, like a bobblehead on morphine. Yep. After they take my baby out and my husband's got my son skin to skin. I still suffer from that. And I'm entitled to those emotions. Yeah, you are.

We as mothers are entitled to those emotions. And just because I have a beautiful baby who's perfectly healthy, my husband's wonderful and we made it out of the hospital, I still feel like I'm allowed to hold some space for being sad over not having that birth. And that's what I'm talking about. Yeah. I just want to make that area a little bit bigger for people. Acceptance.

Because it's not fair to just be like, but you're fine, right? I know. But you didn't die, like, but your baby's okay. Like, that's it. And that's what Rachel and I do also with our best friend, Leah, is like, we have got it so dialed in with each other that if we're upset about something, please, I don't want to hear the positive. Like, let me be in this for a moment and just allow. So we really preface that with each other all the time. We'll even ask.

Like, do you need an yes, please, don't. Because it's really taking away the person. experience and saying, no, what your feeling isn't right. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I'm talking about. Like, that's still happening. Like, that was kind of mystifying. Like, people would say things to me, oh, Mina, get over it. Okay. I'm working on that. I don't really know where I need to be for everyone. Right. There's, um, the doula I worked with, she has a place called Women's Space. Her name is Paula Malice, and she does these beautiful things called birth stories, where women come in and they tell their birth story to pregnant women, so that pregnant women can hear, look it, let go of everything

that you think that this is going to be. And then she also does a course afterwards, which I'll happily refer you to her if you want, where you go in and you write your birth story and you start to really work on healing it because that's something that unless I too had an emergency C-section, so I feel you all the way. And one, it's a massive surgery. Okay. Do you know they take all your organs out and put them on a table? Yeah, I found that out later. Like, everyone's like, oh, I had a C-section. It's like, it's not chill. It is a massive surgery. No, they're like, well, just breastfeed. Like, just do it. Like, and just like, like, and just like, Just go home now.

Yeah. It's traumatizing. It's literally like going to war. You've been cut open completely. They've taken this child out of you. Then they're like, here, put it on your tit and be good and be happy. And the thing is, is that there is a trauma that comes with it. And even if someone has a perfectly beautiful birth, I think there's a trauma that comes with it.

Yeah. I mean, when you say like, when you were just talking about like the birth stories and like, I just went back. You're like a pregnant woman get to hear all these stories and I instantly felt anxiety because I remember being like, I don't want to know anything. Yeah, I was like that too. Yeah, I was like, if I know any of the things that could happen, how it could go, if I have a plan, whatever, I was like, I want to know nothing. I want to just go experience whatever it is it is. Because sometimes like too much information is harmful for a brain like mine, you know, because it'll just hamster wheel and Lord knows where I'll end up. But yeah, there's,

different traumas. You know, when I had, I had an easy pregnancy. It was great. You know, labor, I was able to deliver vaginally. It was not, you know what I mean? I mean, it was rough at first, just whatever. But, and it wasn't that long and stuff. But then you're like, handed this thing. And then all the other things that come along with it, like, well, is it going to pee? Did it poop? Can we leave? Does it eat? Does it, you know what I mean? Like, I, I, Are you breathing? Like, I couldn't sleep unless my daughter was, like, on me. And I could, like, keep checking that she was breathing.

Like, you know, and it's just like, it's such a position to be thrown into, especially if you've never done it before, that everyone's experience is different. Yeah. But again, it's just being able, like, supportive. Like, my friends are, Olivia and Leah specifically are, like, you were talking about your podcast voice notes, whatever. Like, we have a sounding board. like a group text that we can say anything we want. There's no judgment. There's venting.

There's complaining. There's whatever. And like Olivia was saying, like, I'll know she'll be going through something really rough. And all the things you want to say are, no, but this is why this is happening because this is going to be okay. But it's like, we don't do that. It's like, no, this is fucked up. I totally understand how you're feeling. Like, feel it. I'm here when you're ready to talk about the positive side, you know, or whatever it is. That's exactly. I mean, I can't tell you how many times you've said that to me. Well, I can't tell me how many times you've been going through a rough time. But seriously, you know, we all do it. And it's just having that supportive, like, with us, in particular, like, female, you know, support system that really can be there for each other.

And when you talk about that space of, like, not squashing your feelings, to me, that's a epitome of self-love. Because when we love other people, we're not like, oh, I love you when you're just happy, right? We love people when they're sad, when they're indifferent, when they're bored, when they're happy. Like, we love them. And I think that sometimes people put that pressure on themselves, like, well, if I really loved myself, I would be happy or get out of this feeling. And it's like, no, go to the feeling. You get to be in the feeling. And then eventually, for me personally, I do this thing where I'm like, you can lick your wounds and you can be with this. And then, And after a certain amount of time, I say, okay, and now let's do one step towards solution

on this, whether it's healing it, whether it's being of service because of it, whatever it is, that's kind of how I relate to myself in those moments. Giving back, yeah. Yeah. It ain't easy, ma'am. No, that's life. I know. I'm bringing all of it up.

It's just like you just feel it again and you're like, oh, my God. But I think we're here to talk about it. Yeah. I think that's why we're really here, you know? Yeah. And just especially in this day and age, we just have to fight for that. Right. A bit more because otherwise, I don't know, it's all just going to become like vacantly plastic.

Oh. No, you're right. That's like our biggest passion. Yeah. What? I'm like, yeah. What? To be plastic.

No. Oh. You know, like our biggest passion is off. you know, authenticity in a way that is unfiltered and not the smoke and mirrors and like not trying to, you know, put out something that's not real. Right, because that's where we're always venting, like Instagram. We're like, dude, you know, talk about smoke and mirrors and it's like such a, you know,

a back and forth relationship with it. Well, social media is its own beast. It's its own beast, yeah, for sure. We don't need to touch that. But it's true. It's, it's, it's, well, it's morphing the mind of young people. And so if it is, I do think it takes women and men, obviously, but, you know, girls in particular usually look to other women to start to be willing to be more organic and not filtered in that way. Hopefully. I don't know if they listen to us old folk anymore, but. Yeah. So what about you? Because you, you got pregnant.

were you 40? 41. That was 41. And, you know, all the stuff that comes along with that, too, when people are like, oh, you're having so late or the anxieties with that, did you have a pretty easy time or did you deal with any of that stuff? I did deal with it. God, what did they have? They didn't call me geriatric, but they had something on the forms. It used to be geriatric. Yeah, it was something like that.

Like, I had to do, like, extra tests because I was just so old, right? And I actually found out from, so my mother got pregnant with me when she was 30 and had me at 31. And 30 then was our 40. Right. They couldn't believe how old she was then, you know. But I, I mean, I had a great pregnancy. Everything was wonderful. You know, I feel very lucky for all of that.

I mean, I took part in all the tests that they wanted me to do. I just kind of went along with it. But, you know, I mean, I actually. was testing and, you know, peeing on the ovulation sticks and, like, calculating and doing all this stuff. And it never happened. And it was actually the time where I said, you know what, I can't stress about this anymore. And I was writing my book. And I just felt like if it's meant to be, if I meant to be a mother, then I accept that. If I'm not meant, that's okay. And that's when I got pregnant when I just went back to living my life. There's so many stories like that. You

Yeah, when you're finally not stressed, it happens. But that's interesting that you were like, if it doesn't happen this way, like you weren't going to entertain IVF or adoption. You were just like, if it's not happening naturally, it wasn't meant to be. I don't know. I mean, it just because that, I mean, that was just my thought at the time. I had an IUD that I didn't have hormones. I had that taken out in February.

And then we found out we were pregnant in July. Mm-hmm. So I guess it was like this time frame. that was like, I was still, you know, but I did go in with my husband, like, to test. Yeah. Because of what everybody was telling me. Of course. I didn't feel like there was an issue, but it was this sort of like, well, if it doesn't happen by now, you want to go there.

And it was sort of like, oh, God, you know. It's all the outside noise. It can be. And you have to understand that that's also, you know, not like it's moneymaking, but it's also constructed for a reason. You know what I mean? Like, this is also a whole business of infertility. Let's not forget that. An expensive business.

You know, there's a lot that we're being told in many different areas, you know. But that's definitely a big one. Yeah. You're so right. I've never thought of it from that perspective. Well, it was presented to me if I didn't get, if I had the IUD out, I was going to get pregnant within this amount of time. And if it didn't happen, then I needed to go to the clinic.

Why? Who determined that? Yeah. You know? Bizar. Yeah. So that got me thinking, oh, God, I'm 41. Right.

My eggs are old. My son's beautiful. It's very possible. And I hear many women in their 40s naturally. Like, there's so much that's possible. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you hear it for sure.

We never know. You never know. We just have to remember that that's out there. And how was it, had you considered, because I know this, that you've been married, before. And in this marriage, is this the first time and the first marriage that you felt like I want to do this? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I got the first time, yes, I'd been married before. The first time I got married, it was very young. But again, like that kind of like generational trauma. And I know that you guys will get this. My mom got married at 20, 21. I got married to 20, 21 to a man

much older. Like, same thing. But I broke that. It was interesting. Like, I kind of broke that pattern and earlier. So I was 25. I mean, in the book, I talk about Robert, my first husband, he really saved me. I was in the worst relationship ever that you could possibly imagine. And that's who he was for me. The only downside was he gave me the ability to grow into who I wanted to become. And that person didn't see herself married in her 20s. And so I wanted all of those things, but I wasn't ready then. I remember, like, looking at myself in the mirror thinking, like, he was ready for kids. And I remember being gifted what to expect when you're expecting, like the actual book, you know, like when we had books back in the day. And I was just like,

I don't know what to do with this. I didn't know how to feel about it. It felt like it was being, you know, put upon like you were the wife. My second husband, I don't know. That's like a doozy. I'd like to refer to it as like carmic debt because I probably will never know. I think if anything I was like trying then because I was like 27 and I thought like that's what I should be doing. A lot of my life was like me just trying to find my own way and fighting against these ideas of who I thought I needed to be or what my life needed to look like. And that was, you know, not a great relationship. It was, you know, we were together longer than we were married. And it was always like tumultuous.

And then I met my husband. And when I met my husband, I wasn't really looking for anyone. I went on location to a place that like I'd never even heard of. I was like, I don't even want to go there. And my life just took a complete 180 when I met him. But he was the first person that I felt like I want to have a child with. Yeah. How did you meet him?

We met on set. Yeah. We met on a project. Where was it? You're like, it's a place I never heard. of. Sudbury. Oh, Sudbury.

You're in Canada. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, Sudbury. Moon. Well, it's special to you now, huh? Yeah. Yeah.

So he's Canadian. Yeah, he's Canadian. Where's he from? He's from Sue St. Marie. Oh, that's a place I've never heard of. It's kind of like we're all the lakes, Great Lakes meet. There's a Sue St. Marie, Michigan, and there's a Suz-Lame-Marie, Canada. I just go over the bridge.

Oh, that's nice. Well, it's interesting that it's the same thing. It's like you let go of relationships for a moment and weren't looking and you found him. And then you tried to get pregnant. You let go of that and it happened. I have this, but that's just me and how I live my life. I have this just, I refer to it as the universe. And I just, that's just how I interact.

I just try to be very open. Yep. I try to just always be open and try to listen and just follow. Maybe because I'm so tired of fighting. You know? Yeah. Where did you get that? So is it like a spiritual? Is it spirit, universe, God? Like, what is that for you? Um, it is. It's, it's, I mean, whatever you want to call it. I mean, for me, I refer to it as, you know, the universe or, um, but it is. It's very spiritual. I mean, uh, like I told you, I fell off a 30 foot cliff when I was eight. Wait, can you tell us that?

That is so crazy to me. Yeah. Well, we lived in St. John in the Virgin Islands and my family was, um, building a home there. Yeah, I don't have all those answers. I was only eight, but I was there with one of my brothers and it was an active construction site. So like when we lived in it, it was just the concrete shell. And we would have like mosquito nets and to sleep in. And they had this one area like you would enter and you would drive down this long driveway. But then they had an area sort of halfway down that was paved flat and they had all the plywood there in the shed. It was like their work shed. So all the plywood's here.

And then at the face of that, they had scooped out earth to put the septic tanks. But the earth was sort of like this. Curved. So it was really thin on top. And so I went up there to play with my brother. I was trying to catch a lizard, to be honest. and I walked to the end of where the plywood was and I turned around and that's all I remember.

And my brother says that he just heard me go, and he's looked around and called for me. And yeah, so I woke up at the base of that. The septic tanks were already put in and they said that if I had been facing the cliff, I would have just gone right on top of it. Because I had my back to the cliff, you weigh more in the front. Fun fact.

You know? And so I went out 15 feet and then I went in and slid 15 feet. But I landed in this like, it was all like clay earth and it was water, muddy water. And I landed about a foot away from a rebar. Oh, my God. And the construction worker who found me, I found out, was scared to come get me. because that's how he had lost someone. They'd been impaled by the...

And so he got me up and I'm covered in mud and he said to me, whatever you do, don't say anything to your mother. So I like live in to her house because we were going to go to work. She had a little store there. Oh, my God.

And I was covered in mud and she thought that I'd been playing with my brother and he pushed me in a puddle. And so she told me to go upstairs and take a shower. And so I, like, hobbled up to take a shower and then I was covered in cuts. But, yeah, I didn't break anything. Oh, my God.

No concussion or anything? No. Well, maybe. Who knows? But it just, it's a long story. But, you know, and then also in the book I talk about when I went to Costa Rica with a friend, I had a very bad horse accident that I should be dead. Jesus.

And so a lot of these things just added to that, a lot of that, like of my interaction. just, I don't know. I try to just, I never even thought that I would be doing what I do for a living, you know? So I'm just kind of following the path and, and learning from it. I really, especially now, like, enjoy what I do in a way that I never did and really just love it for the art of it, you know, and the collaborative effort and like all those things that add to my life that I feel like I had to like unlearn a lot of bullshit to get back to. Right. And did you do this, the accused, this latest movie?

Accursed, right? Oh, did I say it wrong? What is it? Accursed. Accursed. I'm dyslexic. Did you do this when you already had your son? Yeah, that was like my first movie back.

Wow. Yeah. I mean, I had to promote my book and he was about four months. Oh, my. And that was a lot. Yeah, I was pumping, like, in between recording the audio book, and people don't know that. Do you hear it? You hear the machine in the background? Oh, no, I mean, I mean, just that those were the circumstances, you know? I mean, I was crying. I remember, like, getting really emotional, especially when I was talking about the rape. I mean, it's gotten better, you know, each time the emotions to be able to process them. But, I mean, I remember. thinking like, oh, God, like, sorry, guys, you know, in the booth. I'm just like a mess here postpartum recording my book.

But to a certain extent, like, I had to go back to work. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, for sure. So do you want to tell us a little bit out of a curse? Yeah, the accursed focuses on a young woman, Ellie, played by Sarah Gray, and she's invited by my character Alma to come in and take care of Ms. Ambrose. who Meg Foster plays. And I don't want to give too much away, but... It's like a thriller of sorts, would you say?

It's more within the horror genre, but there's definitely a lot of drama and suspense and what's really beautiful about the story written by Rob Kennedy is just... I feel like the real... I don't know, the realness and the heart at the matter, you know? It's... You know, Kevin, our director, would always talk about

how he was really inspired, by the sins of the mothers and how these affect the daughters. And so, you know, you see this through line throughout the film. And Alma, my character is really someone who is a woman scored and just has lost her way

with a broken heart, and she's trying so severely to save her world. But it's definitely, it's horror. You know, we're definitely within that scary genre. Yeah. I love it. It's the only type of movie

that can keep me awake at night. So I look forward to watching it. And then lastly, before we let you go, we play a game to end every conversation. Mary, Barry, one-night stand. Okay. Are you willing? Yeah, okay.

Mary, like, I marry it, I bury it, or I one-night stand it? Yeah, that's right. Mary Kill, but we're just going gentle. A little more wholesome. Barry one-night stand. Oh, God. All right. Okay.

All right. Lay him on her, Lou. Oh, the people are. Let me see. See, I always get caught up. Am I going to insult someone now? Probably. Jason Biggs. Peter Gallagher and 50 cent. Your face, Mina. Um, um, um, okay. Um, Mary Jason.

Cool. Kill Peter. One night stand 50 cents. I love it. What does that say about me? Nothing is awesome. I would do the exact same thing. Oh, man.

Yeah, I also have a personal relationship with Peters. I don't know if I can answer. I love the ball. Oh, my God. They're all such wonderful people. Yes. Yes. Well, that was such a beautifully open conversation.

So thank you for being so open with us and willing. And it was so lovely speaking with you. you and thanks for having me yeah you're beautiful thank you absolutely we look forward to the movie that sounds fun how is everyone's thanksgiving doy is it chaotic is what chaos what Thanksgiving your brain for you guys yes my brain definitely is chaotic is Thanksgiving chaotic for you guys i mean used to be growing up chaotic. Rob, how did your superstar stuffing go?

Oh, it wasn't great for me, my mom, and Calvin. What's the cheese in it? Borson cheese. Like Borson, like... Yeah. Like the urban garlic or... Oh, man. I need to make that stuffing. Michael Valtajou had it in his fridge when he made it for us.

It wasn't like intended or bought for that. He was just like, oh, I got this cheese. I think this would work in it. And it was like the star player. Yeah, it made it incredible. I need to make this stuffing now. You do. Okay, next year. You don't need to wait until Thanksgiving.

No, actually. You could do it like Christmas. Can you make it for us for our Christmas episode? Oh. Oh. Okay, so here's the thing. So one year, Courtney, my sister-in-law and I, it was Easter, and I was like, should I do Thanksgiving dinner?

So I did. It was like I whipped it together. It was one of those things like really quickly, just had a turkey breast, not the whole turkey, whatever. So now we have started the tradition of Thanksgiving dinner on Easter. So I'll make that stuffing for Easter, is my point. I want to sooner than that, though. What do you do for Easter, Rob?

We do absolutely nothing now. You don't eat anything in particular? We do like a grotton potatoes. For Easter? For Easter? It's like a grotton potatoes, ham. that kind of vibe. We don't have family out here, so we don't celebrate Easter?

Right. No. I mean, we'll like maybe do an Easter egg hunt for Calvin, but that's the full extent of our Easter. Jeez. This is a regular Sunday. Can we talk Christmas? Yeah. Let's talk Christmas.

What's your Christmas meal situation, tradition? Ours has always historically been Italian, like either like meatballs, or baked ziti, like Italian vibes. That's on Christmas Eve. Yeah. But I'm thinking this year of making homemade tamales. Oh, yeah, I like that tradition. That's a great idea.

Doesn't that sound good? Sounds great. But I actually think you make that before so that you have them in the morning, maybe. I don't know the answer to that. I don't know the answer to that either. Does your family do Hanukkah too, Rachel, on your dad's side? Not like super traditionally.

Sometimes we would go to my grandpa's. For eight nights. No, but I like it. I like all traditions. I think it's nice. Same, you know? And not like super. I'm obviously not religious, but I like the tradition aspect to all of it. Yeah, to me, Christmas is not really,

I get there's a religious element of it, but not any piece of it that we celebrate. But you get a tree and all that fun stuff? Oh, yeah, we like to decorate. We got big tree. What's your meal? What's your food situation for Christmas? It really depends.

I mean, yeah, we don't have a ton of family out here. So it's just for us. It's whatever we don't do like a big feast. But even just for you guys, isn't it like, can't you create tradition? Yeah, we probably should be more intentional with that. I mean, Calvin's like finally at the age where he's eating. what we're eating. Right.

So we can start doing that a little more. But we celebrate, like, we do the gifts in the morning and hang out on Christmas. And, like, we'll Zoom with my family back in Chicago. What's the breakfast tradition on Christmas? Did you have one growing up? I had one growing up. There was, like, an egg and sausage casserole thing that we would make. And monkey bread.

Ooh, monkey bread. Yeah. It always changed. It'd be like my mom used to do this like pancake souffle thing and like eggs or the breakfast changes. It's not like the same thing every year. What about you, Rachel? Do you do anything special? I don't do it, but my mom growing up did ham and eggs

and eggs and pills very cinnamon rolls. My brother and I would fight over them in the cinnamon rolls? Ham and eggs in the cinnamonals? No, that's separate. But now I don't want the middle. Isn't that interesting? You grow up and I liked the crest. I found some Pillsbury dose and minerals in my fridge from when Jeff's sister was here. And I looked at those today and was like, since I'm cheating on eating gluten. Did you make them? Not yet, but I think I'm going to. But then I have to like hide and like sneak eat from Elliott because I can't eat them. Yeah, that's hard. That's hard. So we're, we did something new.

On social media, we put out a prompt for followers of the show. So if you don't follow us on Instagram, go follow Broad underscore Ideas underscore Pod. Very easy to say and remember. Yes. And we're going to start asking more questions every week and trying to incorporate into the show a little more. Yes. And Olivia, you wrote some down. I did.

There's so many. that we could go for the rest of our lives with amazing topics. But some of the things I think would be interesting to cover the three of us. So I'm just going to randomly pick then. Yeah, randomly pick a good one. Ooh. Well, first of all, a lot of people want to know mom skincare routine. So I'll post it if you guys want it.

You know what's a great question is how to deal, how do you deal with an X moving on? Oh. Isn't that good? How to deal with an X moving on, assuming you're not over it. Yeah. That's tough. That's hurtful. It's hard, right?

I would imagine. Can I answer for Rachel? Yeah. Sounds like she just really disconnects immediately, so she doesn't have to worry about it. She does have the ability to cut off. My mouth is wide open and dropped to the floor. I can disconnect, yeah. Yeah, as she's showing right now,

she's just staring off into the yard and on her phone. She's looking at butterboards. Have you experienced that, Rob, when an ex or a partner has moved on and you weren't ready to? My first long-term relationship was tricky, like when it ended. Why? When we broke up. I broke up with her, and then she did not want to be broken up.

It was a lot of like back and forth. And then I think at some point it turned the other way, where I wanted to get back together. And she had moved on. And how did she deal with that? I mean, I was just sad and dealt with it. I mean, there wasn't, I don't, this was like. 15 years ago. What about you, Rachel?

Have you ever had your heartbroken, Rachel? I've had it fucking obliterated. When your ex moves on and you haven't? I don't know that I can speak specifically to that situation. I've had different situations

of like hardships, but I don't know if I've... He's got to kind of soak into the pain of it, right? There's nothing, there's nothing. you can do other than, well, first of all, and I know this is cliche, and people always say it just takes time, but it's so true. And you look back and you're like, oh, like, that was the only thing that helped me for this was getting further away from it. And obviously there's distractions, there's other things and all, whatever. But it really just takes the time to get, you know, far enough away. I think there's value in being able to tell yourself that and believe that, that like, hey, this is, this is temporary and this is going to get easier the further away from this point that we get. It will. I also think one of the most important things in that situation is to protect yourself from seeing it. And now with social media being so big, like, if you follow the person and you're seeing posts of them with their new, like, block them or at least silence their stories. So you don't see. Help yourself. You can help yourself and choose what environments you put yourself in. Another thing that I've found really helpful when it comes to heartbreak like that is changing all triggers. So if they used to text you and your phone sounded a certain way, change the tone of your phone so that every time you get that text, it doesn't shoot through your soul. Good point. That's one thing that's really helpful. Another thing I learned about heartbreak that I think is incredibly

helpful is to do everything opposite. So if you drive to work the same way every day, take a different route. And get a new job? No, but it forces you to be present and in the moment versus on autopilot where your brain's going to do all the toxic thinking. If you go to the grocery store and you always start at one end, start at the opposite end. Interesting. Like how much more practical you're a vice less than ours. Yeah, I was going to say, like, or change your, screensaver from their dick to like a picture of your kid. Right. And if you don't have a kid, change it to someone else's dick.

No, but those little things can help. Also, the music you listen to. Like, don't listen to the songs you shared with that person for a while. No, you'll be able to listen to it again. Start a new playlist that makes you feel hope, that makes you feel like there's something else out there for you. and detach yourself momentarily from anything having to do with that person. You know that your person is out there.

And if this person moved on and there was someone else, that guess what? That means there's someone else for you too. I've done things where I'll have like letters or whatever, like all these remains of the relationship that even the step of like getting all the things together and putting them in the garage, like out away, right? Before you're fully ready to just either throw them out or whatever. Because, like, their material things, like necklaces, whatever it is that you've been gifted pictures.

Car. A house. And just putting them in the... Just keep her in the garage. I keep her in the garage now. Yeah, but like just putting them away, at least they're not accessible or easily accessible. That helps just clearing all of that. that I've done those things for myself.

From a psychological standpoint, Olivia, is there anything dangerous about just the avoidance or? No, because it doesn't mean that you're not going to, yeah, that's a wonderful question because those are little things. The denial of it, I think. Those are little things to cope on a daily basis,

but I do think that it's imperative that you set the time for yourself to actually mourn the relationship. And I believe, that the answer to all of our problems is acceptance. And no matter how hard it is to accept life on life's terms, you have to accept that that person moved on. And that means you need to set the time for yourself

to properly grieve the relationship, mourn it, feel it. And then do all those things with it. It is a grieving process. I think we've all been through like a grieving process of mourning a relationship. And it's not easy, but you just have to always remind yourself that in time, you'll be okay. There's nothing you can't, you know, get through. It just takes time.

All right. What else we got? What else do we got? When were you at a crossroads in your life and had to make a really big change? I'll do mine quick. Great. It was when we decided to leave Chicago. I didn't ever want to leave Chicago.

It was, yeah, it was my home, and I loved it there. And we and Natalie, I don't think she cared really one way or the other. I mean, she liked being there, but she was born in L.A., lived in New York, lived in Chicago, kind of bounced around, and it was hard. It was really hard to leave. I remember driving away with the truck was real, real rough. You told us you cried when you did that. I did.

But yeah, I mean, it was now I'm here because of it. Yeah, but why didn't you do it and what brought you to the point where you were ready to make that choice? I mean, it was a work. It was a work choice. I had been offered an opportunity to do it. and I knew it also could be temporary if I wanted it to be. So there's no reason to not go experience this. And if we don't like it and want to change our minds, we'll just come back.

And our plan was always to come back. Let's go out there for a few years, see what it's like. And now this is more home to us, I think, than there. Interesting. So you've never regretted that choice. No, I've never regretted it. There was points where I wanted to go back, though. Right.

But I'm also through that as well. Like during the pandemic or something? No, not then. It was more just like when things weren't working out how I wanted them to, career-wise, when we came out here with the company I was working for. I was like, well, this sucks. why did I move out here to do this? Let's just go back home.

I can do this there. Thank God you didn't do that. I know. I mean, there was one point where I like, one night was like, yeah, let's go back and I felt like a big relief. And then, I mean, I pushed through it and didn't. It was always a safety net. Right.

But isn't that a big deal? Like when your fear comes up and you're like, okay, I want to, you know, throw in the towel and go back home, whatever that home means for you, your comfort zone. But then you push through it and like what was on the other end of that was so much bigger than if you would have gone home. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So crossroads for me, I mean, the biggest one was when I was 30 years old and decided to quit drinking.

I could have gone a totally different direction. But I remember the day that I actually was ready to quit drinking. I picked up my paper and pen and started journaling because I was so depressed. There was like wine and cigarettes and Taco Bell next to my bed. And I was just like, who have I become? What am I doing with my life? And I picked up my pen and paper and I wrote a letter to my unborn child. I heard you drew a picture of the man you wanted to marry.

and it ended up looking exactly like Jeff. I pretty much did. I basically wrote out, I was like, look, I'm going to quit drinking and I'm going to do this for you because I know there's things in this life that I want. And I knew that alcohol was standing in the way of me getting those things. And it was a gargantuous choice that was incredibly hard. And it took about two years to not be miserable. and then it has gifted me your life. So that was like the biggest crossroads I've ever really faced.

So that was all pre-husband and kids. Pre-husband and kids. I would not have my husband that I have today and my children if I hadn't had made that choice. Right. No, that was huge. All right, Rachel, your turn. It's probably starting this podcast or not starting this podcast. big crossroads. More for you, Rob. I don't know. You know, there's just like

what I can think of most recently for me was a big career decision versus a decision as a mom. And I went with the most important thing to me, which is my child and being a mother. So I turned down a huge

opportunity, career-wise, financial, like all of it. to be home with my daughter and keep her in her school, in her, you know, routine, in her friends and family. Yeah, like, so that was the biggest thing within the past year, and that was a hard decision. It did not come easy, but I had to do what was best for her. And how did you get there? Like, how did you get to the point where you felt confident making that choice?

So I was really struggling and I had the most wonderful therapist who has since retired, which has been a very tough thing for me. But she had me do an exercise and we like sat quietly and it was almost like a meditation and we did this exercise. And what came to me in the exercise was the moment, not the moment, but like right before my daughter was born, I was alone in the hospital room for like a minute. And I talked to her before she was born and I was like, it's like, you and me, we're going to get through this. This is going to be, you know, like the birthing process and going through that. And I had,

I talked to her. And in that moment, it was like, I got you. And like, that's what came to me in the meditation. Like, that was like the first thing. And I was like, oh, this is clear. Like, I promised her the day she was born, like, I got you. And like, in that moment, I knew the right decision was a decision for her and he is her mother. And then that's how I came to it. Was that the first time you've ever had to make that decision? Like, was there ever a time where, like, a boyfriend you knew it wasn't going to work out if you took this job? Or have you always prioritized the work over your relationships?

No. I've always put relationships. first and I have, I've always, like, I think that my career path would have been much different if I didn't put relationships before career. Do you ever regret that? I don't, I like to not have regrets. I mean, there's things where I could be like, okay, like, you know, I could have done this differently and maybe things would be a little different for me. Maybe it would have been beneficial, but I try to believe in whatever decision I made, whatever path I took was for XYZ or whatever reason, and just trust in that and learn from it. I've learned from decisions.

I don't regret that I've had lessons in them, and so I take that as like a win. Yeah, and the lesson may be more valuable because it helped you make this decision now. Right. Right. I heard from Jeff's therapist, who was also Rachel, therapist. She told him that regret is a tool. And I was like, oh, I love that. So it's not like an emotion to stay in. It's a tool. You use it to learn from what you've been through. And so I know a lot of people struggle with regret. And if you look at it like, wait, this is presenting itself as a tool for me, then you can use it for learning instead of beating yourself up. Because when you beat yourself up, like, what's the point of that?

You know? So I like that little tidbit. Like, okay, regrets just a tool. Well, I think it's helpful, too. I think the younger you are, the more you regret things. And it's the older you get, the more you realize that it's not helpful to sit and dwell on that stuff. Totally. But I do work with a lot of people that are even older that still are really entrenched in the pattern. of regret. Well, I think it's also, we're speaking from the other end of it with a little bit of privilege that it's worked out for the three of us to where there wasn't some massive life

choice that now we're sitting in prison or wherever. Like, I think regret. Right. Regret can be a lot harder to kind of hear yourself from depending on where you are in your life, too. Totally. And no matter where you are in your life, you can still use it as a tool. Yeah. Right. Like, especially, like, I know my brother's in jail and I know he's got major regrets, but when he stays in the regret, he stays in the pattern. And if he were to really take that as a tool and be like, what can I learn from this and do with this? You wouldn't keep ending up in jail. Right. Right. It's a choice, though. It is, and it's not always an easy choice. A lot of times people really do get handcuffed to their choices. And obviously, we know there's always a way out for people, but it can be incredibly hard if they don't have the space and the tools and the support to actually learn how to deal with these things.

I know people are probably going to ask, the role that you turned down was House of the Dragon, right? Thrones? Did you imagine? You knew you're going to say something like that. I do have a juicy follow-up question for you, Rachel. Mm-hmm. Were there any roles that you turned down?

And that became... So here's something funny. Now, this isn't a role, but it's present in my mind because Josh Schwartz reminded me of this recently. Apparently, back in the heyday, the OC days, I was offered a Pepsi Super Bowl commercial. And he said you were a coke-drinker. And I was a coke-drinker.

And I turned it down. But I didn't remember this. And I was like, what? There's that. And there's another one, a Rolling Stone cover. I turned down. Why? Because they wanted me to show my ass.

And like, at the time, I was like, no, I'm not showing my ass. You know. And those are morals. And sure, like, I have never done nudity. And as I've gotten older, I'm kind of like, but maybe I can show her boo. I should have one. I should have when I was younger. I should have when I was younger, and they were nice and perky.

But those are two things where I'm like, why did I turn that down? So you're basically saying you could have been Britney Spears. Basically, what I'm saying is, hit me, baby, one more time. I just think that, like, I don't know. I don't know that the reasons were behind it. I think I was easily influenced and, you know. So there was no roles. I know.

Everyone's always got one. Rolls that they've turned down. You know her memory is... I know. That's more of the issue that we're dealing with here. It's literally like I'd have to ask you or Olivia, if you guys know, because I can't. I don't know.

Yeah, I'm trying to think. All right. Well, we're going to keep... We're going to keep doing this. We're going to keep doing this and answer questions. I think it's great. We're going to keep doing the podcast, too, I think. We're just going to keep doing this.

We're just going to keep doing this, you know. Keep them coming, guys. Yeah. And keep telling your friends to listen and sending, keep telling them that send in things too. Yeah, we'd like to keep doing it. And share it on your Instagram and have people raise awareness. We're having really interesting conversations about things that matter.

If you feel like doing the broad ideas challenge and just naturally inserting yourself into strangers' conversations. Can we talk about what the challenge is? I don't know that everyone knows about this. Well, that's what we started with. That's our challenge. just being out and someone has to video it and you just nonchantly insert yourself into strangers' conversation and video it and let us know tag us we'll repost it yes we will thanks broads

the wizard of broads and us bye that was a headgum podcast