Broad Ideas with Rachel Bilson & Olivia Allen - Michael Cassidy on The OC, Marriage, and Famous Encounters

Episode Date: November 4, 2024

Michael Cassidy (The OC, Waco: Aftermath) joins Rachel and Olivia today where they discuss behind the scenes bloopers of The OC, married life, social media and cheeseburgers of course.  Broad Ideas is sponsored by IQBAR is offering our special podcast listeners twenty percent off all IQBAR products, plus get FREE shipping. To get your twenty percent off, just text IDEAS to sixty-four thousandBroad Ideas is sponsored by Thrive Causematics, you can get an exclusive 20% off your firstorder atthrivecausemetics.com/BROADoBroad Ideas is sponsored by Posh Peanut. Go to postpeanut.com/broad and use promo code BROAD for 20% off your first order.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hax is back for its fifth and final season, and so is the Hacks podcast. Join the Hacks creators and showrunners, Lucia and Yellow, Paul W. Downs, and Jen Statsky as they unpack the Emmy-winning comedy series. On each episode, hear stories from the set, what goes on in the writer's room, and how these beloved characters close out their final season. Watch Hax streaming exclusively on HBO Max and listen to The Hacks podcast on HBO Max or, wherever you get your podcasts. You can, you know what, you can cuddle up. Do you want a blanket? You can get as comfortable.

Yeah. I'm very comfortable. As your heart desires. I'm very comfortable. Thank you. He looks like I was comfortable. And now, shit. I'm not.

You know. Sometimes when the way inside of Rachel's little brain, all these thoughts are swirling, round and round inside. To join us on. this journey as we take a little ride. We'll talk about dogs and kids and things. We'll talk about chicks and tampon strings. We'll talk about boys that'll make you cry.

We'll talk about death because people die. Who sings your opening? It's a good song, right? Genevieve. Genevieve sings it, but our friends wrote it. Yeah. Who's Genevieve? Jennifer Eve is actually our editor's wife.

Yeah. Yeah. It's really nice. She has a nice voice. Doesn't she? Yeah. And our friends Leah Griffin and Charlotte Lawrence wrote it. It's epic.

It's pretty good. Like it should be a single. Yeah. I want to hear the three and a half minute version. Yeah, yeah. It's a spanger, if you will. Yeah. Because you know how much could come up with, like, you know, all the things.

Yeah. Lyrically speaking. We could really go there. How'd you two meet? Look at his face. Look at his face. Me and Bilsen? Very well documented.

Bilsen has. Oh, yeah. Many years ago. Do you remember? The first time meeting it? Cassie, I don't know. I'd be shocked if you did. Do you?

Well, the reason I remember it is because the day is significant in my... Because you were coming onto the show. Yeah. It's different. The OC. Yeah, really different. Yeah. It was like another day at work for you. All right. Well, tell me, because maybe I remember. We, um, so we, I was cast to play what, at the beginning of the second season of the OC, the main forecast were coming back from summer with a, with a version of a love interest and I was going to be Rachel's love interest. Right. And it all went to shit. And it all went to shit. But I hung in there, even though it didn't work out for us. You hung in there so hard. I just going to tell everybody, I love Michael dearly. Like, I could not have been luckier that

they chose you as Ducky. You're my favorite. Okay, sorry. Go ahead. So the first day was like a month or two before the first day of filming because they were doing a big photo shoot on the beach in Malibu. Oh, so your first day you didn't even shoot for another month after that? Yeah. So you were there for the photo shoot? Yeah, it was like photos and promos.

Were we on the beach? Yeah, we were wearing like formal wear on the beach. You were there for the formal wear on the beach photo shoot? Okay. Before you'd ever even done a thing. Yeah. Did we take pictures together? No, very nervous. Very, very nervous. How old were you? Yeah, I mean, I mean, I mean, at that point I'd been an actor for a long time. I understood acting, but there were no pages to shoot that day.

I didn't know what I was walking into. Right. So there was no, like, application of my existing skills for me that day. I was terrified. It was just, like, show up and fit in with this group of characters. Honestly, it was like, get in the town car of which I had maybe ever gotten into once and put the formal wear on and say hello to these people in the makeup trailer for the first time in your life. Yeah.

Was I nice? Yeah, I can't remember a time when you weren't nice. Oh, that's so sweet. That's what I wanted. Oh, okay, great. Okay. So we're done. Yeah.

Oh, we are? Yeah. That's all it takes? You can leave now. I guess I haven't listened to that much of the show because I thought it was about something else. It's just a compliment her. Oh, my God.

So you came, but we didn't take pictures together, right? I'm sure we did. But, you know, taking pictures with a stranger. Yeah, I know. It was like 20 years ago. But. Yeah. Okay.

I sound worse than I am, just so you know. You're sick, but not that sick. Yeah. It's like the kid thing where you acquire the bug and then it's around for three weeks, but you never really. Yeah. Oh, I'm aware. You've been sick for a long time.

Yeah. It's constant. Yeah. Petri dish situation. Yes. Oh, yes. And you have three. Yeah.

So. That's so many. So many children. I completely agree. So many. I couldn't agree more. Wait. It's a high number.

I want to know about that. But I want to know. Okay. Do you, we do don't remember this at all? If it's the photo shoot I'm thinking of, I remember the, or did we have to walk down a lot of stairs to get to the beach? Yep, yep. It was on a vacant lot in Malibu.

We were on a beach. And the trailers were on the lot, and then the filming was down on the beach. A lot of stairs. Yeah, and a lot of stairs, yeah. It was super treacherous. And then it was like a shore break, and at the end, we all jumped in the water. Yeah.

I don't remember. Were they welcoming? Yes. Good. Everyone? Yes. Okay. I mean, in their own ways.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm honestly curious. Okay. That's good. I'm happy to hear it. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. I have no, uh, I had no idea how pleasant that job was compared to what awaited me. Looking back now. Totally. Right? Totally. Oh, wow. Yeah.

We had a lot of fun. Yeah. Right? Right. Oh, I had only fun. Yeah. Yeah. All of your stuff was fun, though.

It was fun. It was fun. It's like you hadn't, like, I'm trying to think of all the storylines and stuff. Yeah, I didn't have to be in the rain in a tank top, you know, in the middle of the night. Those, I wasn't in those scenes. Got it. I was in the like, we're here and we're making dumb jokes about comic books. Did you get the show?

No, you know my brain. Was it because you were up for Superman with McGee? Or was that after? No, I had screen. tested for for McG's Superman that never got made film. Oh. Yeah. And he, and the timing was such that, like, they were starting to cast those new love interest roles.

Got it. That is how I happened. Probably three weeks after I finished my screen test. Then you got those. And I came and auditioned and read with you. That's actually technically the first time we ever met. I actually read with you, which never happens, as you guys know. Yeah.

That's shocking. We read together? Yeah, they had me drive down to Manhattan Beach Studios. I hadn't had that many auditions in my life. And I... It's nerve-wracking. Super nerve-wracking. In the writer's room.

Yeah, in the writer's room, like a second or third floor. And like Josh was there, Stephanie, you, Patrick Rush, and maybe one other person. Really? Really? Yeah. And I read with you. Why? I don't know.

It just makes me nervous. Auditioning is really nerve-up. Auditioning. It gives me anxiety. But like being there with the person from the show. Yeah. I was insulated. He's a little anxious.

I was saved a little bit by my ignorance. Like I had really no concept. Yeah. That's helpful. I was way better before I booked any pressure or whatever at auditioning than post. Yeah. So that's probably ignorance. Yeah.

I wonder how many people I read with. I'm going to have to ask Josh. I bet I must have read with a few people. So you said to me. She probably gave input. I'm sure she did. Yeah. Thanks.

I said to you what? You said to me on set, you were like, you were the only person they read for this role. Oh, just kidding. And I was like, oh. And you were like, that's a big deal. And I was like, oh, thank you. Just let me on the set telling you. Yeah.

Yeah. Welcome to Hollywood, pal. I'm dead. Yeah. Okay. So I just read with you. You were the only one. I will say, Michael, I'm going to give you credit for this because I am known to like laugh on set and break so easily.

Oh, my God. Me too. But the hardest I have ever laughed on a set during a take is with Michael. Like I still think about it. There were two, but the biggest one, I'm not going to cry laughing. I think you know. Do you know which one? Yeah, the Italian episode.

He goes off to Italy. And he comes back on a festival. He drew up in best white pants. And he's like, will you say the greeting? Bonjourno. I have to come up and say, bonjourno, guys.

How is your spring break or whatever? I was like, and we're on a sad stage. And he's on it. The blooper is out there somewhere. Yeah. It's a sound stage and they have him right up, right? Yep, yep.

The Vespa on the sound stage behind the doors like into the quad or whatever it was. Yeah, right on set. Lounge area. Yep. Yeah. And he comes, traipsing in,

like bouncing in. Yeah. Yeah. With air like yours now. So it comes out of the... Flappy, like flippy, just like bouncing around.

Yep. Bon Jo! Yeah. Just walk right into my close-up from like deep. And they, because she and Misha have stuff to say while they're watching me walk up.

So when they go to shoot my side, they just shoot this super long shot that they can cut in that. And the shot of Rachel and Misha together is just like, what is going on with this dude? And you can see if you see the back of me, I'm like shaking. Wait, I want to watch it. Yeah, it's really fun. So hard.

It's really hard. Oh my God. That is it for me. Yeah. That was the hardest I've ever laughed. Oh, that's amazing. Did Shira? Did Nisha laugh too?

Yeah, of course. Yeah, she was like, what? I know, but I was like, but I was crying. Like, I cried all my makeup off. was dying. It was so funny. And I, because you were laughing so hard, I was leaning right into it. Like, I was like rolling those ours and whatever else I had available to me. I have them. Yeah. It was my favorite. I was just so glad it wasn't me laughing. And just like, you were in. You were committed. You were committed. I was committed. Yeah. It was pretty amazing. Is your water

carbonated? Yeah, we're bubbling over here. Okay. Good. Big time. It's so funny. Oh my goodness. Okay. So you get on the show, you have the best time. So you get on the show, you have the best time. I'm great. What else? Michael. How nice? Where else was I nice to you? More about me. How? Yeah, yeah. But did I look cute? I hear you saying I was nice. Was I cute? Yeah. Wait, you were funny is the more important part. You were already with Adam at the time.

Yeah. So one of the other amazing things. that I didn't realize it was amazing, was that Adam said to me on the first day of actual filming, he goes, this is weird. He goes, you're going to kiss her in this scene, and I'm her boyfriend in real life. And that's weird. And it was like, I'm saying it the way that I would say it,

which is awkward. But he was very, it was like a super loving thing. Yeah, like funny, let's make light of it. Yeah. You're going to kiss my girlfriend. Yeah. It's funny. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I could see that. Yeah. I actually think it's also really cool because it allowed you guys to actually get close and be friends. Yes. Like if you didn't have a boyfriend and you were sick, like there's just so much that goes with that. In acting? In acting. And in life, I think like girls and guys becoming friends. Like when someone's in a committed relationship, sometimes it's easier to just get.

Be friends with someone. That makes sense. Yeah. You feel safe. And like, I know this isn't weird. Like I can actually just be your friend. Yep. And Michael's been with his partner wife person since, wait, I was going to say high school, but is it college? It's high school, yeah, junior prom. Junior prom. Yeah.

Isn't that crazy? Junior prom? I knew it was a long. 99. Nineteens. It was in the 19s. Wow. Yeah.

It's a long time. Talk to us about it. I mean, it's a long time. That's a long time. Especially in this world. Yeah. Yeah, you know, people say that a lot. But what do you mean when you say that?

Can we get into that a little bit? Can that be one of our broad ideas that we get into? Yeah. What do you mean when you say that, especially in this world? In this world, I think that there's one, there's an, you go get a job as a lawyer or an accountant, any other profession, right? You're going to see some attractive people around the world. You're in a business where it's the most attractive. people in the world all in one clump.

And acting like they like each other. Yeah. And then you're getting close to them. You're working with them. You're pretending to be in love with them. You're spending ridiculous amount of hours. I mean, it's a recipe for a lot of people to go through a lot of relationships, you know, that you're not going to find in other professions.

Yeah. You're not going to be a history teacher and spending that much time, right? Yeah. So that's what I mean. Yeah. Do you feel me on that? Yeah. I think it's hard.

Yeah. Maybe it's not. I don't know. But. I have found, you know, like I was saying before, like one of the things I love about show business is how fake it is because it's just easy to keep it as a job. Yeah. But one of the things that's, I've found really. challenging about having show business be my workplace is that it's fake. And I don't mean the

people are fake and they're bad or anything like that, but the intimacy, not sexual necessarily, but the intimacy is not earned. No, not wrong. In the way you're describing. And so because it's not earned, it doesn't last. So you're in my relationship as a great example of it. Nobody's right or wrong for this, but we were like buddies. And it was fun and tight, but it was ultimately fake. And when I wasn't on the show anymore, we didn't see each other anymore. And that's, I don't, I, but let me say something. But every time we do see each other, it's not, it's just an example of like, we were buddies. And it's very apparent, like, every time we do get to see each other. And I know a long time went by. Yeah. But it's still like immediately like, buddy, you know what I mean?

100%. Yeah. And I don't mean to discount that. I know. I know what you're saying. In this, I have never, ever, I have found marriage to be a challenging thing to do with my life. Yeah. With my life. I have not found show business to be one of the more difficult things about my marriage at all. I think that's fantastic. Because of the fakeness of it, for lack of a better word. the like inauthentic nature of it. It keeps it sort of sterile for me. Yeah. But I do think that that is something different about you.

I really do. Like even hearing the way you describe it, it sounds like you have a healthy relationship and are able to compartmentalize. Like, this is work. You show up and do your job. Yeah. And then this is life.

Yeah. Right? And I don't think a lot of people have that discernment. I think they're like, this is my life. And then they go home and they're like, wait, this is. And they get confused between the two, which is why so many co-stars leave their spouses for each other. Or, you know, I think they get a little confused on what their actual compass and reality is. Yeah, and I wonder what it would be like if I was on a show like the O.C.

that went on 10 months out of the year for four years straight or six years straight or 10 years straight. If eventually I'd be like, oh, no, this is my wife because I see her wear more often than my room. life. Right. Yeah. I've never been in that situation. No. So, and I don't, I'd say it with no judgment whatsoever, but I, I, I just have never, you know, the, the sort of running trope about sex scenes, for example, is that they're like the least sexy thing in the world. And that has absolutely been my experience as a guy in a long-term relationship. I like it. And I bet your wife likes it too. Yeah. It is, yeah, there's a lot. We have a lot of security in our relationship. in that respect. What does she do? She's now a comedy writer, a TV writer. Amazing.

When we were younger, she was an actress. Okay. So she understands your work. She understands my work. Which helps. It does help. It does help. We had some friends recently. We were talking to them and the guy's wife is like a, she's in show business, kind of, but she asked, you know, she asked Laura, how do you, like in front of me? She was like, how do you handle the, I think I was making jokes about doing her nude scene or something like that. And the woman was like,

how do you handle that? He was like doing this and this with this actress. Yeah. I mean, our domestic life is like so multi-layered and complicated now. And she was like, what are you even asking me? Like as long as the dude shows up, like, somebody's got to get these kids from school to the other place and then like do a ton of dishes. And if he does it and also chases that down some chick on the TV set, I don't give a shit. You know? As long as all this is happening. Yeah, yeah. But she's always been that way.

That's so cool. That's probably why it works. Yeah. I think so. I love that. It's almost like how my husband has had to give like breast exams and deliver babies. He's a doctor. See vaginas all day.

And I'm like, he's like, you know, it's like it's worth. Desensitized. You literally can look at a woman. naked breasts as an actor on a show and it's technical. Yeah. In the same way a doctor would, a woman's figure. Yeah. Right?

Yeah. I mean, I hesitate to compare them, but I definitely have a professional relationship to what I'm doing with my body in those scenes. Let me put it that way. A professional relationship. Yeah. Thank God. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know how we got here. I'm happy we did. Yeah. Tickled. Tickled. Did you... Did Olivia Wilde come on when you came on?

Yeah. That was the... Was you, Olivia? Shannon. Nick Gonzalez. Yeah, we had like... Yeah, I remember the slew of you. Yeah, all at the same time interacting with each other.

And then Adam had a lot... Well, Olivia obviously had the... What am I trying to say? The storyline with Misha. Yep. But then she also had a storyline with Adam. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

I forget which feel of us. First, I think Adam... Oh, I was not okay. I mean, you know. She's wildly beautiful. She is not only wildly beautiful. She's one of the coolest human. Yeah.

So you're just like, oh, okay, I'm fucked. Yep. Like, there goes my relationship. No, but she was the absolute... Did you really feel that way? I mean, I'm exaggerating because I, like, loved her so much. But obviously, I'm like, yeah, my boyfriend's kissing her. Of course he's going to be like, feel something.

And how could you not feel something kissing Olivia Wild? Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, I would. I would. Yeah. I think there was like one night I remember in particular feeling a little like, I don't love this, you know? But as a whole, I loved her so much that it didn't really affect.

She was also married at the time which helped. She was married. That did help. If she wouldn't have been married at the time, I think I probably would have had a harder time. Just because, like, I would leave Adam for Olivia. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's like that.

I think it's. It's a universal. We're all leaving for her. I think it's universal. Anyone would leave anyone for Olivia Wild. This episode is brought to you by IQ Bar. I love IQ Bar products. It is so hard to get going in the morning.

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I've always had this, and maybe it's because it's theoretical, but I've always had this relationship to the prospect of my wife falling in love with somebody else has never concerned me, because I've always felt like the alternative is that she's attracted to other people or she's not attracted to me anymore, and she's stays. And that to me sounds worse. So I've never felt jealous in that specific way. Honestly, I felt more jealous of my kids and the attention that they have from. Yeah, yeah, it's very common. And not a lot of it, but way more of that than the, oh, she's going to get someone else. I don't. Yeah. I like that you can admit that, though, because I think there are some men that get that

jealousy with the kids, but they can't openly like acknowledge what it actually is and talk about it, like the awareness, like you're feeling that way because your wife is giving the attention or whatever. But I don't think it's talked about. There's a lot of dudes. I think there's no. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That feel that way. No, I agree. I feel that way. Yeah. My husband was saying it recently. He's like, it's so cliche. But the truth is there's days where it's so hard not to be last on the list when you have other human beings that you're carrying for. and they, you know, a man craves the attention of a woman. That's just a natural craving.

And these little humans take up a lot of it. Yeah. A lot. A lot. Yeah. And you have three. And you have three. So that's a lot of attention.

What's the age range right now? 13 to three. What? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you're in it and in it. Uh-huh. You're in both sides at the same time.

Girls, boys. Girl boy girl is the birth order. Girl, boy, girl. Okay. How's a boy doing in the middle of those girls? How is he? I think he thinks he's an only child. I think he's fine.

Yeah. He's like got two roommates and two parents and he's fine. He's got two roommates. Yeah, I think that's he seems. He's chilling. Yeah, my kids are pretty dialed in, I think. Honestly. That's good.

I mean, I don't know, like, and I imagine, because I know juggling a relationship. even with one kid and then juggling a relationship with three kids in the age range. Because it's like you kind of get to that point where it's like coasting a little bit. Yeah, definitely. But then you had a baby. Yeah. So it like brings you right back to that part. Was that a surprise, baby?

It's a gift. You love us. I'm not, just because I'm uncomfortable doesn't mean it's personal to you. I'm just uncomfortable. I like to say that I've been married three times to the same woman. And that in our first marriage, we had one kid. And in our second marriage, we had two more kids. And now we're in our third marriage.

And there are three kids in that family. Yeah. Because we're so different. You know, we've been together since we were 17. And we're, we're 41. So it's, we're pretty different. You know, we've changed a lot over that period of time. the marriages have had to change also.

But you've done it, you've done it together. So it's like this whole process of. Yeah, it's like the marriage. Someone somewhere taught me or us to think about it. Like the marriage is a thing that's separate from you. And it's a thing that you both sort of like are working on and caring for and are, you know, sort of imperfectly invested in at different times. You know, those kind of ideas.

And I've taken that to do a further sort of. when I reflect on my marriage, that's how I think about it. I think about, okay, now we're in the third one. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, it kind of has to be because hopefully you've grown since 17. Yeah, hopefully. Right?

Yeah. And it's almost like even if you grow side by side, there's a kind of, you're never going to grow at the same speed at the same time. No. So there's a reintroduction to each other. Yeah. Right? Where it's like, I have to get to know this new version of you. Yes.

And it's also one thing I think is hard. Even in friendships we've experienced this with like other friends is like you're holding someone to a version of themselves that they no longer want to be. Yeah. Yeah, that's a major thing. And that's tough. Yeah. And they're like, but I've done, I'm this person now and you're like, no, you're not.

You're this person that I met at 17. Yeah. And you've had three decades of growth in there. Yeah. So that's something. Yeah. It's a lot. Three decades.

Wait. Is that right? Well, it was 41. They've messed with three decades in there. Yeah. That's so crazy. It's crazy. Yeah.

It's kind of mind-blowing. Yeah, 99, 25 years. Yeah. 25 years. I graduated in 99. I was born in 99. Four out. It's really young.

What's it like? One in five years. I mean, just thinking about that, it's just, what a journey. Yeah, I mean, it's most of my life. Yeah. Yeah. And definitely my whole adult life. The cool part about that, though, is that you didn't have to do all the riff-ruff.

No. Do you ever feel like you missed out on any? Like, do you go through? that either of you? It's not a, I don't have a sense of longing about it, but I, I am aware that I have a blind spot, that there's certain references that I just will never get. Because even if I were to start dating, you know, now, there would be a certain, you know, I'm 41, like there'd be a manner to that that would never be what people's 20s are. Yeah, exactly. Never. Totally. So I just, there's certain things I just don't get, you know, there's just certain jokes I'm not in on. There's

certain like, yeah, I mean, it's a lot of stuff. Sex is a big deal. You know, sex is like a big part of how we define ourselves and how we relate to adults and, you know, and my sort of like experience of intimacy in sex is like very specific. Right. Yeah. I think that's cool. Wow, I haven't thought, yeah, it's very cool. I mean. I was filming a scene the other day. You guys might think this is interesting. And it's, it's, um, I'm doing this show right now and I'm playing. the boyfriend of the main character of the show, basically. And I don't know if I can talk about it, so I don't say what it is yet,

and it'll be clear shortly after this comes out, probably. But I'm a very small part of the show. But our scenes are very, we have a physically intimate relationship that has a tremendous amount of romantic distance for a variety of reasons that are really interesting. And I have literally no experience with that. Wow. Wow. Yeah, I just don't even.

So, like, people draw from life to, like, you know, that you have no... Yeah. But I don't even, like, I read the scenes and I sort of land somewhere. But I'm often filming the scene being like, this is so awkward. You're like, this is weird. You people do this shit? Yeah. Yeah.

And there's like, in the action lines and the scenes, it's like, she really feels at home with him or something like that. And I'm like, why? We can tell you. Yeah. It feels so... strange. They're so cautious with each other. And it's cool. Like, you know, our job is so fun in that you get to experience these like different lives and timelines and stuff like that. But I, there's this sort of overarching dramatic choice about the value of this relationship. And I don't see the value.

Like I don't, you know, like I get what they're going for. It's experiential. Yeah. Yeah. But the cool part about that is like, I remember taking this acting workshop, not that long ago, actually, and it was called, like, I think it was called like the unexpressed. And you're supposed to go in and you're supposed to pick parts of yourself that you don't feel you've shown or aren't being seen. Oh, God. And that aren't expressed and haven't been lived. And then you put up these kind of scenes in the class where you're exposing that. Oh, my God. I know. But what I hear in that, And, like, that's one of the reason I think acting is so amazing, is that you can take experiences that you've never had. Yeah.

That you've never, because we're all the same. We all have the same kind of core emotions, right? Yeah. And some of them come out in different ways and we're expressed in different relationships. But you can take that stuff that you never got and go live it in these scenes. Yeah. So you're really not missing anything. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like you actually, your body doesn't know it's fake. Yeah. Right. Even though you say it's fake, your body doesn't know. Yeah. So it's like you may have been in a relationship since you are 17, but you got to play out all these unexpressed versions of yourself.

Yeah. As an actor, and I think that's rad. Yeah. My career, like my professional opportunities have definitely required me to imagine a version of my life where I never met my wife because it's so. Because our sort of thing is so specific. Yeah. Do you believe in soulmates?

What's that? What did you say? Do you believe in? Do I, is it the fact that I wrote up on my motorcycle that you think that's a dumb question to ask me? No, no, no, no. You seem so tough. You do. You seem just so tough and so.

He's not, he's very, like, sensitive little soul. Deeply, deeply, deeply sensitive, soft little soul. Do you believe that? Like, do you believe in soulmate? No. Oh. No. I just, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, if soulmates exist, that would mean.

Yeah. That my wife and I's relationship is meant to be and, um, destined. And if this is what destiny feels like, motherfucker, I have some notes. Because it's fucking hard. Yeah. It's too hard. And so soulmates and destiny feels like, um, uh, yeah, I don't want, I don't want, I don't want, I want destiny to be nicer than this. And you think, like, if it's like, there's soulmate and destiny, that that

means that there's no choice in it. And you're making active choices to make things work. I just think, like, if there's a higher order or power to things, and it has chosen this for us, that seems a little sick, because it's hard. It's just too hard to be soulmates. See, I think that means you are. I do. I have. I had a very bad. feeling you were going to say that actually when I started. It's your curriculum. Right. And you guys had the perfect curriculum to come together and learn these deeply profound lessons in life that you wouldn't have learned with other people.

But then what about the people who want children and none, no, no, no, and just can't meet the right guy or person? I think that that's part of it. That's their curriculum. But then that's just hard for me to take. I get it. Because those people want babies or they want to get out of jail or what? I don't know about the jail. But I can have babies.

There are ways. I'm not, I don't know what the alternative is either, to be clear. I'm not saying there's no choice in it. Yeah. But to me, when I see, like, what you're explaining, I hear. Oh, yeah. You were supposed to go through these things in this life together. Oh, right.

Yeah. Do you? Yes. I mean, yeah. You know, I'm all a believer in everything is, you know, as it. should be and like the reasons people, certain people come in and whatever lessons and whatever, it's all part of it. Like, I don't believe in it.

He's joking. Yeah, she's joking. I'm like, what she's talking about? Just talking with him. Okay. Here's my question for you. Okay. Since this is like a unique thing where you literally high school sweethearts have been

together for 25 years, okay? And I am a believer that if I was in a super long-term relationship, I could get to a point if I felt there were areas I needed to explore, there would be enough trust and security there to maybe go and do so, okay? Oh. No, I'm just saying... I see where you're going.

Yeah. So no, look it. He's getting so embarrassed. We love it. I love exploring open relationships on this show. That's all we do. I'm not talking about an open relationship, but I am talking about and it's kind of the same thing

where Laura's like, I don't give a fuck. Like, you're chasing whatever. Get home, put the kids to bed, do whatever. this is our machine that works well when we're doing things together, that other stuff. I trust you. I love you. It doesn't matter. Do you feel like that is true for your relationship?

If it ever came up on either side. Yes. If she ever said to me, I need to try this for my ultimate whatever. I'd be like, yep, no problem. You'd be supportive. With no limitation. Zero limitation. Like intimacy with another person.

Yeah. I'd be like, give it a try. Like I reserve the right to end the relationship in its current iteration. Right. But I believe that our, you know, way of it. on a sand, man. Like, I think that our thing is temporary, even though it's the longest thing I've ever done with my life. Like, I just believe that. And it's going to end sometime, you know, in some way. And I, you know, so that's my sort of version of soulmates where I find a lot of existential comfort

in the idea that everything I'm doing is temporary. I just really like that. I do, too. It makes me, like enjoy my kids more. It makes me, you know, I feel more drawn to personal growth when I think about not being the opposite of a finished product, you know? Yeah, thanks time. So along those lines, the worst that can happen is that we split up. And while that would be like very painful, I'm a child with divorced parents, I know that that's painful on the sort of scope of human experience wouldn't be that big of a deal if it was coming from a genuinely like ultimate personal uh fulfillment place right like loving and supportive because there's that much love there there yeah yeah i like her more yeah yeah i i i prefer her happiness over out

whatever idea i have of the of the unit how would she handle it if it was you that wanted that i mean the first few things that come to mind are all jokes Like, she'd be like, are you going to, you know, is the dishwasher going to keep running? Like, I don't, I don't have any idea, honestly. But I don't, I don't, I've never seen a side of her that's possessive or jealous ever. Right. Wow. Of me.

Right. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. She has her own sense of, you know, preference and ownership in other areas. But in our thing, it's not for either of us. I don't think ever, but it's a long time to, like, reflect on. I don't know.

That is a long time. But that's, I mean, I don't think jealousy and possessiveness is a recipe for a good, long relationship. No. Yeah. So it's probably one of the key ingredients that keeps you guys together. Yeah. I do wonder, though, if I, because there are so many things, my favorite things about being married are the work that I have put in. or the work that I see her put in, work,

but work that we've put in to accommodate and maintain compatibility. And I wonder if I can claim any sort of work in the area of security and trusting, you know? Because I don't ever remember struggling with it. And I've never seen her struggle with it. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, it's natural.

Like we've worked on a lot of stuff. We haven't worked on this. So like how impressive is it? I don't know. It might just be like the way. we are. It's not part of our curriculum. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, it's not part of your curriculum. Yeah. Have you guys ever separated for any time? Yeah, we split up for the sophomore year of college, so like three years into our relationship for like six to nine months.

We both dated other people. But came back together ultimately. Yeah. He's like, no. No, we're still waiting for her to come home. Yeah, totally. No, she doesn't know this, but I think I've been with her for 27 years. Yeah, exactly. She's actually been married three times. She's very happy on the third one. Yeah. Support for broad ideas comes from posh peanut.

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Don't you ever think about it all the time. Like, I know there's movies made about it. But like this led to. this is sliding doors. I don't know if I've ever seen it, but I know people reference that always with it. But yeah, like this leads to this leads to this and it's so fucking trippy. Yeah. Yeah, because it's just like what one small choice changes the whole course of your life. What is the, what is the like subgenre of storylines that make you think that? Is it like if I had stayed with this person or is it like if I, if that, you know, if I hadn't gotten in that car wrecked?

Like, where do you go for that? Yeah. I mean, there is that for sure. Like, for me, at 14 years old, getting into, like, a horrific car accident, changed my trajectory completely, completely, like, in every way. But I don't usually think about that. Mine's more, like, you know, like, romantic. Like, how did this person come into my life?

Or then I'll go morbid and, like, that could have been me. Like, all these horrible stories you hear about these kids and, like, what happens? And you're like, oh, well, if we would have made the wrong turn at that second. And then you spiral and think about all the ways. Like every step could lead to anything. Yeah. But that's when I just go super dark. Yeah.

I don't know if you can relate. Deeply. Deeply relation. It's horrible. And I tend to go there a little bit more, which is not healthy. Yeah. But it's everything that I'm subjecting myself to, like on Instagram. I got off Instagram, dude.

Nobody wants to talk about it. Did you? to talk about if you're on it still. But yeah, I'm like off off. Like I got on it for six months and I was like, no way, this is horrible. It's like hanging out in a casino where you can't win under any circumstances. What about it? Like what about it was horrible? So it was like I was feeling my, it was, I was spending time with people that I don't care for. And I was being exposed to things that were sort of like intoxicating, but I'm already, I already don't have enough time for the things that I love. Right. So it was sort of like, and then the premise of why I was on it was that it would have some sort of positive impact on my business. And when I couldn't find a pleasant way to interact with my business on the social media, it ceased being useful practically.

Yeah. It's not very good for the brain, is it? Well, I, like my wife has a much less obsessive personality than me. And so she can do things like once a week. I don't do anything once a week. So she can just like look at it and just like have an Instagram 20 minutes of her life for the week. And I don't have any, I don't have that kind of relationship with anything. So it just doesn't, you know, I think the way she does it makes sense to me, you know. She basically shares pictures with people that she cares about.

and checks out cool stuff for 25 minutes and nothing else. She doesn't do anything else. Yeah. That relationship makes sense to me. It's not available to me, but it makes sense. Right. And it's very private. Her relationship to it is very private.

It's very, like, she uses it for her. And I couldn't figure out a version of it where I was doing that. So I just turned it up. Do you think it's affected your career in any way, or is it the same? I have decided that because I never enjoyed even entertaining how I would interact with it professionally, I'm not going to be. going to entertain whether or not it's having a positive or negative impact. Yeah, I think it's a crocaboo.

I really do. I see so many people that are doing fantastic that don't have it. Yeah. And then there's people that spend so much time on like, I have to have my followers. And it's like, it's its own rat race. Yeah. That it's like, no, you don't. Just focus on what you're doing.

Yeah. It doesn't define you. I think that it's really, especially for our youth. I think it's pretty dangerous as far as, like, how people are letting it define their self-worth now. Yeah. Scary. Yeah. How do you feel about your kids getting on it?

I will. They will not have it in my home. All the way through until 18. I mean, so my 13-year-old absolutely wants social media. Right. You know, claims to be the only kid who's not on it. Right. Right.

Peer group. Yeah. And not now is the answer. Like, I just don't know when. I think that's the worst age. I think 13 is bad. That's it. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And I had a really, like I had a hard time with Instagram at 40, and I had a really hard time with life at 13. And so I don't have to think about it much beyond that. Imagine going through high school with social media around, you know, that just. But did you guys, for me, middle school was worse than high school. What about for you?

I had a great time. We had fun. Which, in both? Yeah. I didn't have a hard time until my 20s. Whoa. I mean, I had a hard life. I didn't have a hard time to my 40s.

Yeah. I didn't, like, I had a blast. I would say... You're nerd. What are you talking about? What does that mean? No, because I don't... I think that I really liked my friends.

I really liked what we were up to and into. I actually agree. Like, I would say for me, like, harder transitions and times didn't come until my 30s when, like, the biggest transitions of my life were taking place. Wow. Yeah. So it's a little, it's different for sure.

I know a lot of people. My folks got divorced when I was in middle school. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. It was like, I was just not, you know, I felt like all my friends had nicer stuff. And I found acting when I was very young, but I, yeah, I don't know. I really struggled. I had a much better time in high school.

That's what everyone said. Oh, okay. No, that's the common experience. Oh. Yeah. I think ours is uncommon. I would say so. Yeah.

But I think we were kind of just like oblivious and just living life. You guys were the cool girls. Yeah. And so you were just like, this is chill. It's volleyball. It's basketball. It's student leadership. Well, not me.

Definitely not student leadership. Not us. No, I think that the harder times for us didn't come to later life. when we actually settled from all the fun. Yeah. It's like, oh, here's life. Now you have to, like, deal with real shit. And make real choices that are going to form your entire future.

And usually it's the hard choices because you have to face those in order to get to the other side. And, like, not having to do that until you're older. It's kind of crazy. There's an awareness. I'd like to know a lot more about this. There's so much. There's so much. There's so much.

So much. So much. Yeah, it was messier. It was messier later, for sure. It's what. Not what things, but what do you attribute that to? Meaning, like, was it that in your 30s, you were like, well, nobody else is going to figure this out. I got to figure this out.

A hundred percent. It was that, okay. A hundred percent that. Nobody's helping with, like, for me, I got sober at 30. Ah. And that was when my whole entire life. life change before that, I'd been distracting and numbing from anything. Oh, okay. Yeah. So then it was like, I want a family. I want a husband. I want children. I want a life. I want a career. I want all

these things. And it's not happening because of my choices. Whoa. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I felt that way at 16. What? Whoa. Yeah. Like before I met my wife. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I felt like, That's really cool. This hurts. This hurts. I want this art life. I want this, you know, I want out. I want out.

Yeah. Yeah. It's that. Yeah. Yeah. And then yours hit 30s. Mm-hmm. Yep.

Sure did. It always hits, right? I don't think anyone gets away without a hit. No. I went a long time. You did. Very long time. Without a hit.

Yeah. And then boy was that. I hit. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry you got hit, Rachel. I'm sorry you had to go so long and then you got hit. I'm sorry. You know what though? I needed to be older and I reckon like I learned so much and if I had been young and got hit like that I don't know how I would have handled it. But I could handle it. I was older. Like I was I lived enough life to be like oh because in my earlier life of course I survived shit. You know, my parents got divorced. There was car accidents. There was like a lot of things happening. But I survived them all. So once I got older, it's like, oh, well, you've already

been through this, this, this, this and this. This is kind of a different thing, but it's still the same thing that you have to like get through it, but you keep showing up in life after. Like, it's like every time. So being in my 30s and going through stuff, it's like, you know, just I think more up for the work. which I don't think I could have survived fame. I don't think I could have survived what you went through. I don't think so. I think I would have had like, you know, the pictures of the no underwear pictures.

Yeah, like, you know, like I think I would have been really, really wrecked. I really attribute a lot to being in a relationship at the time and going through it with Adam. Like, thank God, because it was like more domesticated. Total savior. Total savior. And we were going through the same. same thing, him more than me because, you know, but we still, at first at least, like, and we went through it together. You had an anchor, you had an anchor too during all those

times, like starting to work, getting success, all of that. I think I'm not saying that anyone should be codependent on an anchor to survive life, but I will say I think it helps. I think having someone that's like a solid support system in your life where it kind of keeps you grounded and real is really impactful. Yeah. I really think it's a blessing. Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah.

We just like to go there. I know. Poor Michael. Poor Michael. What? About what? No, you love it. I love it.

You love all of it. You love all of it. You're just open. Super open. Super sensitive, super open. You are so sensitive. You just love him. I was, I used to, when I was on the O.C., people would recognize me.

Uh-huh. And they would say, are you that guy? And I would say no. And you would say no? Yeah, which is a very strange answer in hindsight. Yeah. Because they'd be like, yes, you are. Do you still say no?

No, definitely not. I definitely learned from that. But I was so uncomfortable with it. Like I was so uncomfortable with it at that time. And you would get a lot of attention, I'm sure. And it was like flipping a switch. It was so weird. Like we started shooting in July and in November it started airing.

And I remember Sean, the Basecamp AD. saying to me, Adam was like left the set. You were working later than him. And so I remember he walked off the lot one night while you were still working to go to a movie. You know, because he saw like, I loved a movie. Dude, he goes a movie a day. Yeah. It was awesome.

Yeah. And I remember I was like, where's he going? I was like, where are you going? He's like, I'm going to a movie. And he like put his hood up and walked out. And I was like, wait, how does it work when he goes to movie? movies. Or no, I asked him, how does it work when you go to movies? And Sean was standing there. This is a terrible story. And Sean, and Adam goes, you go in late and you leave early, you know,

and I was like, oh, I've never done that before. I'm always like, previous. You know, like, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. And so, and then he left. And I said to Sean, I was like, I'm not going to do that. Because I'm going to miss previews. And I think it's going to be weird. And Sean goes, in November, when this thing airs, you're going to do that because it's going to be really uncomfortable if you don't. Like you can't go into a room where people know you're going to be for two hours and they're not going to start talking to you. And then you're not watching a movie. And he was like, exactly right. But I didn't handle it well. We'd be on an airplane. I'd be on an airplane with Laura. Yeah. How did you handle it? I'd be like, no, it's not me. I don't know what you're talking.

What about it makes you comfortable? So weird. So it's confusing to me because it's like you signed up for it. Yeah, but I didn't. I didn't. It didn't. It never occurred to me. I didn't know anybody in Hollywood. It didn't occur to you, people would recognize you and want to talk to you. It didn't occur to me that anybody would watch. You know, when you're making it, the audience isn't there. I know. So the idea that, and my career has gone this way, which is that I filmed a lot of stuff that nobody's ever seen or that hasn't impacted the way that people interact with me in real life.

But that, nobody can get you ready for it, first of all, I don't think. Especially that, that period of time in that show. Yeah. That was next level. Yeah. Do you still get recognized for it? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I look very different, you know. You don't look that. I put my teeth in for the podcast, but I don't, you know, usually the teeth are gone and the hairpiece isn't there. You know, people, it's a, whatever once in. You're a fucking mess. You don't admit it to you, though.

Yes, I do. Oh, good. Well, no. I never. I'm like, no. You don't say no, but a lot of times people will be like, you look so much like Rachel Billson and you're like, yeah. No.

I do that. I do that still. Yeah. Yeah. And then they'll be like, is it you? And I'll be like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I do that too. Yeah. But people do that a lot. Yeah. They'll be like, you look just like Rachel Bilsen. Yeah. The other night someone thought I was late in Meester. And I was like, that's a compliment.

Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's so awkward. Yeah. You know what's awkward is that I don't understand.

Like, would you ever go up? up to someone? Never, ever, under any circumstances. No. And it's, and that, and that, even before, like, when I, yeah, no. Never. No way. I was near my favorite person in the entire universe. Yeah. And Thursday. Larry David. And I literally was standing very close to him. I immediately started sweating, got very nervous, had to walk the opposite direction and go like as far as I could. There's no version of, Okay, I want to know what the best version of it is, though, because here's a question. There's also an awkward level where someone can be really famous and they're there. And it's like, then everybody plays stupid and acts like, oh, I don't know.

I'm so cool. It doesn't affect me. Yeah. Which also feels awkward. Yeah. It's like, come on, guys, you know it's Kim Kardashian. Like, so you're pretending not to know. Like, where is the line?

Where is the version of, let's say you were. in the room with who do you think is the best actor in the world? Oh yeah, who would you freak out over? I mean, I think there's a lot of people that I would like have trouble. I mean, I was, I wouldn't say that this person is like my guy, but I was in a tender greens and Will Smith was in there with the guy who played Carlton. What's his name? Oh yeah. Oh, yeah. That's a guy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And they were just. They were tender greens. They were tender greens, dude. So cute. So cute. And by the way, that is completely my move. If I was Will Smith, I would still just, you would find me in tender green.

Oh, yeah, 100%. But that's not an ad. Tender greens. No, no, no. Brought to you, bye. Yeah, brought to you, bye. But anyway, I was, people were, you know, people's like head snap when they walk by Will Smith, you know. I think potentially because it's tender grains.

But I was not functioning normally. Like, my eyes were going to him in a way that, like. Is uncontrollable. Yeah. But do you, so, so what is the version, like, say it's someone you love, right? Is there like a slight, does it ever feel good if someone doesn't try and take your time, doesn't try and talk to you? Maybe they walk by, they recognize you and they just are like, I like you. Like, would that feel good?

Or like, I love you, walk away. Like, what is a version that feels like, oh, that was sweet that doesn't feel invasive? There's been five times where somebody say has driven by me and yelled like, so and so from such and such, I love you. And then I never saw them again. And I would take that. I would accept that. That feels good, right? But my favorite is when I show up to a job with new people and one of the person says to me, you know, I really appreciate this thing you did in this project. That's the, that's by far my favorite. But why even if it's over a stranger? Because there's a context. We're going to, we have. to be around each other anyway. Right. So I'm not in a circumstance where I have an expectation of privacy. Got it. At work. That's the difference. That's the difference. That's the difference.

Okay. And I have worked with mega famous people that I don't have anything specific to say about their work. And so I have done the thing that is potentially awkward that you're describing, which is that I don't talk about their notoriety. Because I don't know how to talk about it. Now we're here. We're working. I don't have a specific thing to say about your work other than that I've seen it. But I don't think they want to hear that I've seen 10 of their movies. I think we should just go to work. Correct. So in that case, I don't say, I am one of those people who's just like, yep, we're at work. Motherfucker, I've done 150 episodes of TV. Say something about my shit. You know, you're Brad Pitt, so I got to say something about you? I don't think he believes that. No, I don't think he thinks that. Yeah. I just mean that also,

like, is there a way to be like, nice to meet you, Brad Pitt? I'm a geek. So like when I meet people... Yes. Like, I've met people whose books are... We used to live in an apartment building and an author came into our house and I didn't know that she had written a book on my shelf that I loved. And when we started talking, she was like, I'm a writer.

I wrote this book and then I wrote this other book. I was like, what was the other book? She was like, it was this book. And I was like, it's right here. I have the book right here. You wrote that? And she's like, yeah. And I was like, I didn't know.

I mean, this is very exciting for me. Can I talk to you? about da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da and then I went there and that probably felt great to her. I hope so. I think so. At a certain point it was a freight train and it was mowing her down. But I was really excited. And then she said, how about I sign your book?

And I said, I've got like one autograph in my life. Yes. Sounds good. I think we cracked the coat. Okay, great. I think it's really about the environment. Yeah. Because you were an environment where it's like you guys have been invited to the,

you're in the same kind of sphere, home, you're not trying to be private in that moment. Yes. So it's when you're trying to be private. Right. That makes sense. Yeah. I met Brad Pitt. I know you did.

Dang. She did. You did. She got it tattooed on her arm. The date? Yeah, the date date. Time to the second. The thumbprint.

No, but I wasn't, I don't know. What's most starstruck you've ever been? Larry Dacre. Oh, yeah, duh. You know, when I got Starstruck, I was at a sting concert. That's a thing. I've been to one. Yeah, and we were in the back, and I was standing there, and I turned,

and there was this man standing against the wall, and just so cool. And I just, like, glanced back, and he just reached out his hand, like a gentleman, and he went Clint. And I was like, nice to meet you, and it was Clint Eastwood. Whoa. But he was such a cowboy about it that he wasn't like too cool to introduce. He was like, I am a person in the room. You just caught my eyes.

So I'm going to introduce myself like a nice, polite man. And I was shook. Whoa. I like that. Yeah. I thought it was really swaggy. It wasn't like, he wasn't being weird. He was just like a gentleman.

Wow. I know. That's cool. He's a cowboy. Yeah. We like that. Yeah. That was the most starstruck I ever was.

I understand that. You do? I do. You're going to be Clint? Yeah, watch. Cool. She channeled him. I did feel it.

Yeah. A horse appeared underneath you. Yeah. Yeah, wow. Let's make Michael uncomfortable. Oh, God. That's our favorite. So this has been stressing me out.

I just can't think fast. Don't worry. All right. It's not like rapid fire. We'll say it slow. What can you say at the dinner table that you can also say in bed? More. Yeah, that works.

So you did great. Say you're fast. Thanks. Okay. We are going to go with, if you could only eat one thing for the rest of your life, what would it be? Cheeseburgers. From where? You've been practicing, haven't you?

My barbecue. No, do you guys repeat them? No. Well, then how would I practice? Wait, where are your cheese? Where's your cheese? Where's your? Oh, yeah.

No, I am making an effort. Yes, absolutely, yes. What? Yeah, where? I'm glad that it's invisible. My effort is invisible. Yeah. My house.

I like cheeseburgers everywhere, but if I had to choose, I would choose mine. You would make it yourself. Yeah, but I do like a lot of cheese. Do you make your own patty? Do you want to know the whole? Oh, no, it's just pull the meat out, make it into the shape, put salt and pepper, put cheddar cheese on it. That's it. And a bun.

No. Not lately. Oh, so just a burger with cheese. Watching. Yeah. Oh, and then I put mayo and mix the mayo with Chalula. Ooh. Here's the thing, though, guys.

Hutch, mister. Yeah, I love that tip. Yeah. Hot. But I have, I can't get enough of what I want in restaurants. You know, like I like things in, I like, I'm a quantity over quality person. Okay. So I'll never, you know, so once I, now that I'm older and I cook for myself,

When I go to restaurants, I'm just sort of frustrated by the like proportionality is wrong. You know, it's like, we gave you just as many mashed potatoes as, you know, the chicken breasts. And I'm like, well, I don't care about mashed potatoes. Like, you should have asked me because I actually want more of the Brussels sprouts, a little bit of mashed potatoes and a whole bunch of chicken or a whole bunch of, you know. So with burgers, which are my favorite, I want, I just want all the burgers. I don't care about the fries. I don't care about the, you know.

So at my house, I can just make the burgers. Yeah. If you're out, though, where's your favorite burger? in and out I am not an in and out person I know I love in an out I know that is a fucking bold statement I don't understand

I don't either because like I love a cheeseburger they're so delicious Wait but where do you like? Do you like something way fancier? Is that why? I am not a fancy person Oh but I will say like my brother and my sister

and I swear by like just American cheese like fucking processed and like that on a burger and I'm like absolutely not I like feel cheddar I'm not oh what's the cheese on the Is it American on the eating out? I like it. I like American cheese on a burger.

I just don't love American cheese, but I don't like American cheese on anything else but a burger or grilled cheese I can do it. It has to be melted. Girled cheese I can. I understand. So where's your favorite burger? I'd have to think about it. As far as like fast food goes. Like a burger.

Like I'm craving a burger. Like a burger sounds really good right now. Where would you want it from? I don't know. I'd have to think about it honestly. I don't have like a go-to. Okay. I do like, I am not a fancy food person by any means.

Like my last meal would have been, I'm going to sue plantation, which doesn't exist anymore. Oh, R-B, really? It doesn't exist anymore? Love that place. It's the best. I'm about proportions.

You can go crazy. Totally. But I do appreciate like a good burger. Like at a restaurant that's like a real burger. Me too. Stout is the place you should go. Stout is great. If you haven't been here.

Yeah, I love stuff. Yeah, that sounds good. It's really good. Yeah. Do you like the counter? Yeah, the counter is good too. I like the counter. Yep.

Do you like it? I haven't been in so long, I couldn't say. The reason I like it is it's like on the thicker side. Yep. It's not like a, I'm not like crazy about the smash burgers everybody's obsessed with. Are you? I like a smash burger. Have it and had one.

You haven't had one? I feel like you'd like one. They're good. They're just so thin. Okay. If you're starting your own nudist colony, what are the rules? Oh, the first thing that comes to mind, having never thought about this before, Rachel, is that you can't comment positively or negatively on people's shapes or what they look like. You can't even say, I like your birthmark.

Wow. You can't say that. That's so respectful. Yeah. You're a good guy. Oh, thanks. That would have never crossed my mind. Ever.

That's wonderful, though. You can run our newest colony. Yeah. What's a risk you've taken that has changed your life? Being seen. Yeah. I mean, the scariest thing in my professional life is that 60 to 80% of the time, a bunch of strangers, I feel like I have to show some part of me.

to a bunch of strangers that I don't that I would not have to do if I was not if I was in any other situation other than that one yeah that's a risk that is a risk what would you have done if it wasn't acting lawyer really what kind of law I'd like to be a public defender hmm because I love to fight and I love words and I love arguments and I am there is no no depth to the anger that I feel about the way that criminal defendants, poor criminal defendants are treated in our country. Wow. Isn't he such a stand-up guy?

That's really cool. What's your birthday? I knew we were in it. And I should have said, can we start with it? Because I have a lot of questions. It's March 20th. So is that a Arias? Pisces. Pisces. Pisces on the Aries. Yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. I don't know about cuspers.

Oh. Maybe it's in the cards. Yeah. Let me, let me call one. If you could go on one reality show, which would it be? Alone. Have you heard of Alone? Yeah, wait.

Is that the one like in Alaska and you're alone? They go to different locations, but yeah. There was one in Alaska. Yeah, yeah. You go on to the wilderness. I'm not saying I'd be good at it, but that's the one that I would go on. Do you know alone? No.

Alone is 10 survivalists who, are allegedly, you have like no skills, but you want to be dropped in there? Who knows skills, you get 10 things, and you get dropped into a wilderness, and you can't leave it until the last person standing wins. But you're by yourself. Yeah, and you film yourself.

So they're alone all the time, except for when they get checked medically once a week or once every few days. Is this just because you have three kids? You're like, anything where I get to be alone, drop me off in the fucking wilderness, I don't care. That's so funny. No, I have always loved back,

backpacking and I'm happy to do it alone. I've always enjoyed it. And weirdly, I do it less now because of how many kids I have, even though I am, you're right that I want to be alone more. Right. But yeah. Okay. I want that for you. I did too. Yeah. I want to watch you do it. It's you. Oh, what are you terrible at but love to do anyway? Sing. You love to sing? Yeah. It feels good. I didn't know that. It's so good. feels good. I'm not saying I'm like, really cute. Yeah, yeah. But I, yeah. I mean, if I am not red, I don't know what red is, because I am, I am just, it brings us joy just so you know. Good. Yeah, it really does. Good. Yeah, you're the sweetest. Um, your ideal bedtime, sir.

9 p.m. Same. Same. Same. Yeah. Wonderful. Yeah. What are you doing? Oh, I thought you were giving that to me. What movie would depict your life? Like what existing movie tells the story of my life? Like if it was any movie, if you're like, okay, my life in a nutshell, it would be... Oh my God. I don't... I don't know.

I don't have any idea. I can't even conceptualize that. If you could live in one movie, which would it be? How about that? Oh, God, if I could live in one movie? Yeah. I think if I could live anywhere, it would be the HBO show Deadwood. Wow.

That's a scene. That is interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I have to say, my wife would totally agree with that. Like, that would be true for her, too. Really? Yeah, I spent so much time thinking about how, like, we're never going to, this is not going to work.

And I have to admit that I just pictured her, like, sitting next to me right now, and her being like, oh, me too, babe. She would love to live back then, too. That's really cute. That is cute. You know, that is some soulmate shit. Dude, it is. I mean, you know, it's hard to remember when you're in it, as you guys know, how, how profoundly

aligned you are when you find the things that you're divided about. Yeah. It's so hard to remember. I do. Yeah. I know. You're going down for a murder you didn't commit. you have the chance to frame someone to get out of it.

Who do you frame? Oh my God, there's a few people. I mean, Donald Trump was like easy. This is an easy one. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. What's something that people would be surprised to learn about you?

I am actually, nobody ever believes this, but I am terrible at, small talk and like um like the the sort of like shallow workplace start out i need i i tend to take those situations over and like expand my personality in order to just participate because i can't just be hey how's it going you know i saw you in that thing or you know i'm so glad we're back for season two and da da da i'm just not good at that i always just end up saying something like you know I was thinking the other day about the nature of, you know, just like everything. And I was thinking about you in particular, and I was thinking that you would probably disagree with this. And I just wanted to knock this around with you a little bit right now. Oh, you're walking

away. Hmm. Okay. Oh, interesting. Like, that's kind of how I am. Like, the way that I show love, and it drives my wife nuts, too, a big part of how I show love is to, like, let you know how you're impacting me or what I thought about you when you weren't there last time. Hmm. And, but it takes a while to do that. It's like pedantic and it can be self-serving and, and so it's, I'm not very, I don't think I'm like a good, like, meeting. That's so interesting.

Because the thing about you, I will say is you're very generous a spirit, though. Yeah. You have a very generous spirit. I do. I agree. But I don't, if you're not, if you're just trying to like shake everybody's hand on your way around the table at the conference room before the first table ready of the season, you know, I'm the hole you're falling into. You know? We like your whole.

I don't think a lot of people are good at it. And I don't think a lot of people actually crave it or want it anymore either. Because so many times we meet people that they're like, I just love that you guys go straight into it. That makes me feel better. Yeah. They don't want to stay on the surface anymore. Yeah. So I think that you're actually doing someone a favor by pulling them out of that.

Because who the hell wants to do that? I am just tickled that I'm in this moment with you hearing what your point of view on this is. That just sounds so good to me. That sounds great. I'll try to adopt that. I think it's true. I mean, I do. This guy over here.

Look at him. He's tickled. I know. Yeah. I bet you're a great mom. She is a great mom. I'm sure. There's no doubt in my mind.

Oh, that's so sweet. Well, come on. You're just like, hey, no, but I think this is good. I think what you're doing is helping them. I'm serious. I do think that. Rachel doesn't want to small talk people. No.

Rachel, of all of the people I know, in my perception, is very good at this thing that I think I'm bad at, by the way. She's really good. She's good at it. Oh, good at it. She wants to do it. Oh, yeah. Oh. Yeah.

Yeah. She's great at it. You're like, she wants to do it. You're like, I can't get anywhere with her. She's just multiple. No, no, no, no. He's like, she's a master. No, no, I've watched you talk to people you don't like.

Or I've watched you talk to people that you don't have a relationship with. And you're just very, you appear to be talking to them as though you talk to me. And I know you don't feel that way about me. So I'm like, oh damn, she's good because I'm not hiding it. I'm like, hey, how's it going? Nothing. You know, just nothing. But that's what I mean is she's good at it.

Yeah. She doesn't like to do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe it's just our age. We're just like, come on, dude. Done with that. Yeah. Yeah.

Could be. Yeah. I still do it. Well, you're graceful and you're good in a social setting, but you would rather be with the people that you're going to be real with. A hundred times over. Don't put me in a car with somebody like I don't, that aren't my core people.

Yeah. where I have to like small talk with them. Yeah. That's a nightmare for me. Yeah. You're a separate car kind of person, me too. 100 people. Yeah, yeah.

Oh, well, that's just me either. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no, we don't need to ride together. Nope, definitely going to meet you there. Yeah, even yesterday we were sitting somewhere and she goes, Olivia, do the thing. Oh, yeah. Just to bring the person into the conversation.

Because there's someone we didn't know sitting at the table with us. And I'm like, Olivia, do the thing. Yeah. So I'm like, hi. You know. And if she gets it. And then I'll like, you know. And then it's there.

Yeah, right? I just don't want to, like, do the thing. But she doesn't want to have to do the thing. Oh, man. Yeah. You know? Yeah, I do know. Oh, you guys are good.

Together. That's good. That's good. I need somebody like that. Right? This is the last, she's my wife. This is the last thing for you. Okay.

What is the first thing you thought about this morning? I, um, I thought about how my son's, um, I'm I told I told I told myself to be grateful for my son's um vivacity

I just he was in our bed and it was too early and I get so hung up on rules and like boundaries and I I was just like dude you got to chill out and just like love this kid and one of the things about this kid that's like amazing is that he's fucking like you're getting peanut butter spread on you. And you have to love this or there's nothing to love anywhere.

How old is he? Oh, my God. He's five. He's five. Oh, my God. Look at you. He's five. That was literally the first thing.

Oh, wow. That's it. Wow. Yeah, I get, I mean, I'm wound tight, you know. And I have a lot of, like, ideas about things. And I'm really busy right now. And I like, I have an idea that I'll be, I, my default is to assume that I am right about what I need.

And I'm like old enough to know and trust that I, I'm not always right about that. And parenting is hard. That's a, like a kind of a vice that I put myself in as a parent. But I think it's useful too. Anyway, I could talk about this a lot. But that's, I mean, that's what's going on inside of my head a lot of the time. And I was making, that's what I woke up with.

It was like, those were my first thoughts this morning. So stupid. It's not stupid. Stupid. What are you talking about? How in the world is that stupid? I'm embarrassed. It's not stupid.

I'm embarrassed. Why? You're vulnerable. You're a dad. You're a human. This one's saying I can't make small talk. I'm just like, we don't want your question. We don't want your small talk.

We don't want. We're not here for small talk. I'm not here for it. We don't give a shit about it. No, we don't. We don't. You saying that, though, like you have no idea how that lands. Right.

Because each one of us, whether you're a parent or not, there's something that we take for granted on a daily basis. If we could bottle it up and hold on to it and get it back later, we would. And it's the jumping in the bed before we're ready to wake up and breaking of the rules that we're never going to get back. And so you sharing that hits on so many levels. It's constant. I'm constantly like whatever it is. Like you know what? It's not going to be there forever.

You know? Like you said, it's all temporary. Yeah. It's all temporary. Yeah. Some deep shit, dude. Some deep shit. What kind of questions are those, you guys?

It should be like, what's your favorite surf break? What do you, you know? Do you surf? I know. I'm like, what are you talking about? You don't surf? I would have been like Mavericks. What else?

Yeah, you, you at Maverick. Yeah. I'm so sure. Where's Maverick? Where's Maverick? Northern California. It's like this huge, yeah, like offshore break that's like 50 feet high. I always, I know I know a lot of shit.

She knows the most random ass shit. Yeah, but so I know the most random shit. Won't remember what. just came out of our mouth. No. Ever. But like, put me on Jeopardy and I will fucking nail it. Yeah, you'll just go.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a weird. She's like how the fuck do you know. It's a weird compartment. You keep like things in places. I don't know.

Random shit that doesn't matter though. Yeah. I'm really good at that. I love. Oh, my God. Oh, Michael. I love you. Oh, thank you.

You are the best. I love you. Thank you. Thanks for. And that's not fake. Because the way she talks about you behind your back. Always. No.

Is so kind. No. That's very nice. It's true. Does you know, like, precious human? Could you die? It's true.

Look at him. I know. Oh, my God. I'm like, we have to stop. We have to stop. We have to love. I'm like sweating. It's not.

I know. It's uncomfortable. But I've been saying it for 20, like even back in the day. Yes. Always. Oh, my God. I fucking love Cassidy so much.

Thank you. It hasn't changed. That's really comforting, though. It's so much time. And like that hasn't changed. And the feeling hasn't changed. And you haven't changed. I mean, you've changed, but like you haven't changed.

Yeah. I feel the exact same way. Thanks. About yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're on the same page about me.

Yeah. Yeah. All about me. Oh, thanks, dude. That was a head gum podcast.