Broad Ideas with Rachel Bilson & Olivia Allen - Michael Jai White on Puppet Shows, Finding Your Identity, and Martial Arts

Episode Date: October 9, 2023

Michael Jai White talks with Rachel and Olivia about rap culture, his history with puppet shows, and teaching special ed. They also discuss why Michael made his new movie in the western genre, social media negatively affecting the new generations, and how Michael was almost dumped for the role of Mike Tyson for being “too intelligent”.Outlaw Johnny Black is now playing in theaters, and hits VOD/Digital November 1st.Broad Ideas is supported by Lume. Control body odor anywhere with Lume deodorant, and get $5 off your starter pack with promo code IDEAS at lumepodcast.com.Broad Ideas is supported by Quince. Go to Quince.com/ideas for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hax is back for its fifth and final season, and so is The Hacks podcast. Join the Hacks creators and showrunners, Lucia and Yellow, Paul W. Downs, and Jen Statsky as they unpack the Emmy-winning comedy series. On each episode, hear stories from the set, what goes on in the writer's room, and how these beloved characters close out their final season. Watch Hax streaming exclusively on HBO Max and listen to The Hacks podcast on HBO Max, or, wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to broad ideas. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. Broad ideas.

Broad ideas. Welcome to broad ideas. You quiet? You quiet? Yeah, I got your tongue. Today we have Michael Jai White. Whoop, who? His new movie that came out recently, Outlawed Johnny Black, a Western.

Who doesn't love a Western? Rob. You do? I like a Western movie. Also, he directed it and stars in it. Very impressive. And he brought his lovely wife. Love her.

Oh my God, love her. Loved both of them. So let's get into the interview. Sometimes when the work inside of Rachel's little brain these thoughts are swirling, round and round inside. To join us on this journey as we take a little ride. We'll talk about dogs and kids and things.

We'll talk about chicks and tampon strings. We'll talk about boys that'll make you cry. We'll talk about death because people die. Yeah. It's just a shitload of sugar. All right, shall we? Sorry, we'll just go on and on. We'll talk about air one.

But we're so happy to have you here. I mean, we're happy to have you both here. But I know, I'm like, I feel like I want to talk to both. Right. Hey, I don't blame you. It's so cool, I mean. And it's so nice to meet you guys and to meet you. Yeah.

So we have a lot to talk about. I mean, you have so much going on, which is so cool. And you can talk about it, which is even cooler. Much cooler. Yeah. Yeah. So we want to hear all about the movie first. Let's just jump into that.

All right. And then we have a million other questions. Yeah, we have a million other, like, probably. We'll get to. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Well, it's the movies outlaw, Johnny Black, and it is reminiscent of the movies I grew up on.

There was these movies circa 1971. To me, it was like a renaissance of black movies. There were movies that were made by Cini Portier and Harry Belafonte. And they were family-friendly, and these movies that had history in it. And movies like, it was called Uptown Saturday Night. I really borrowed from a movie called Bucking a Preacher. But also, I pretty much do homage to the Western movie genre all across, not just the black ones, but I mean, high plains drifter and support your local sheriff, which is comedy. I just love the Western genre.

And I love the movie making at that time because it all had morality in the movies and the television shows. So that's what I wanted to do. to do something for the audience of boomers and older, and also the Gen X and the next, you know, group of kids out there, see what I grew up. Right. Yeah. That's so cool, you know, and just Westerns in general, just that whole thing. I mean, I love it.

And I'm really excited to see your movie. Yeah, you know, I think it's time to get together and laugh at it. Oh, my God. Please. Please. But also, how did that touch you in your life? Like, what compelled you to want to bring the morality into pictures for the younger generations and for everyone? Like, do you feel like that's missing?

Do you feel like it impacted you in a certain way you want to give back? What was that pull for you? Yeah, I think it's a pendulum that swings, you know, one way that comes back the other. I grew up on movies and television shows that really had messages. It was so stockful of it that once TV shows did that counterculture thing, I think kind of with the start of married with children, they said, let's see how fun it will be to go against the family values and everything else. And then it's just, the pendulum started swinging the other direction. And so as dysfunctional as we could present a family, as dysfunctional as we could present a movie and everything else, that became the train wrecked. that nobody could keep their eyes off.

I think that held for a long time. And I'm hoping to try to help this pendulum swing back the other way. Because it's really nice and it's refreshing to have some messaging and actually something that speaks to our real nature. Right. You know, because we really want to get along.

We really want, you know, I mean, this time of division. I mean, I feel that people want an excuse to do what's in their heart. Yeah. Sometimes it's, you know, the negative stuff. But, you know, my belief is people really, really want to live in harmony with each other. And so I'm trying to provide an excuse to do what's really in all of our hearts is to really, you know, enjoy life, celebrate what we're here to do, you know, enjoy ourselves and, you know, have messages that we feel uplifted by.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly. Yeah, that's it. And especially, like, as parents, too, you know, like, you raise kids and how many kids do you have? We have five. You have five kids. That's a lot of kids.

That's a lot of kids. That's a lot of kids. What's the age range? Well, I've got some older, like, grown kids. Okay. And we have a grown child together that she's 22. Well, she's 22 now. And, but we have a 15 and a 15 at home.

And they're the last one. Okay. Yeah, that's a lot of kids. Yeah, yeah. Do you feel like you started to really get pulled into wanting that message or the pendulum to swing because of being a father? Or did that start before for you? I think it's all interrelated. That's just who I am as a person.

And the things that I've gotten out of life are, you know, all point to those things. You know, I understand how, you know, in a capitalist society, I, People get monetary, you know, value from these hot buttons and these, you know, these topics that can cause you to bicker. You know, because, I mean, it's just, you know, it's human nature. It's kind of like if it bleeds, it leads. You know, so there's been, there's been, you know, a lot of money connected to that. And me, I'm a former schoolteacher. I was a schoolteacher before I was an actor.

Yeah. And so I do understand that when kids are at a really impressionable age, they will lock on to the voice of rebellion. That's just human nature. I don't care if it was the 50s, and people slicked their hair back and rode motorcycles and had leather jackets. In the 70s, if it was Afro or long hair, being a hippie. you're going to grab onto the voice of rebellion.

Unfortunately, the voice of rebellion took on this gangster type of role, took on this real coldness to other human beings. It was what was popular for a long time. And I think it's starting to slowly write itself, because we see less of a gang culture nowadays, and I hope it continues to go that direction. You know, that's such an interesting point is that we grasp onto the voice of rebellion.

And I feel that now how like the bridge would be for people to be rebelling against the division. Because. Yes, I hope that. Right? Like, yes, yeah. You have to educate them to do that, to take that natural sense of rebellion

and have them rebel against what they've been railroaded into thinking. That's right. Right. Yeah. That's really powerful. Yeah, because, I mean, really, It's like social media, you know, like that whole, if it bleeds, it leads, to let kids know you're being manipulated. Right.

Because they know you're very impressionable at this age. Right. And so if they sell you all of this negativity, you're going to lock onto that. That's right. Are you 14 and 15 year old on social media? Oh, yeah. I don't know any kid that's not. Right.

Because I'm trying to figure out my daughter's eight and I'm trying to figure out how to keep her away from it for as long as possible. But I understand that they get to a certain age and it's inevitable. Well, I'll share one strategic thing that's worked for me. And that's this, because you know there's going to be a time when your teenager is going to become rebellious. And I would tell my kids when they were like 11, you know, 10 or 11, when I could do no wrong. And I was like the, you know, the hero. Yeah, I was a complete hero. I would drum it into their heads that there's going to be a time where you're going to disdiscope.

agree with anything I say. You're going to think everything I say sounds stupid and you're going to like not want to agree with me at all. And enough for them to remember that. So when it did happen, I said, didn't I tell you there was going to be a time that you, and to prove me wrong, they would then agree with it. Oh, that's so smart. Right. So I said, didn't I tell you this? you know, you're not going to want to, you're going to want to go because you're going to disagree with me. No, no, no, no. I do agree with you. So I won't go to this.

I'm like, wow, that was impressive. Like, well, you proved me wrong. I don't know. I ought to use that. You know what I mean? So that worked like a charm. That is so smart. Yeah.

I feel like that's like key parental advice right there. Yeah. Just reverse psychology, you know. Get ahead of the curve. Yeah. Get ahead of it. Yeah. Oh, wow.

So you were a school teacher before you switched over to acting. First, I want to know what made you do the switch, want to switch, and was acting always the thing for you? We'll start there. I didn't know acting was the thing for me until, like, later. Because, you know, where I grew up in Bridgeport, Connecticut, which was really a rough, impoverished kind of area, there were no actors. There were nobody in the arts where I'm from. And so, you know, I just. I was kind of, I saw in a line where I could have gone this other direction.

I've been kind of on my own since I was 14. Wow. So, you know, and experienced a lot of craziness. And so I luckily found an alternate route to honor. Luckily, I had martial arts that took me one direction as well. And then once I got to college and, encountered people who were very much like me inside. And I got connected to my true nature

because what it was is I was this artist growing up in a harsh city. And so I built armor. I didn't quite understand why I was so angry and so like, you know, traumatized. Until later, and I realized, you know, that armor was something I did to protect myself. And deep inside, I was this artist that was trapped.

Yeah. And so once I started living my truth, I was freed. I was free to become who I really am. And to look back, you know, when I was in third and fourth grade, I was putting on puppet shows for this school. Right? I created the puppets. I, you know, I did all the voices and everything.

And when I was 10, I used to do my own short movies, Super 8 movies, and I edited myself and was self-talk. And so I was doing that naturally. And nobody, you know, nobody told me to do this. Right. Right. So it's kind of like, you know, you grow up and, you know, finally straighten out in high school, started going to college and thinking I have to do all this, you know, you got to study either law or business and everything. else. And I kept sneaking in acting classes. Wow.

Because I enjoyed it. You know, when I was teaching school, on my off days, I'm going out for acting roles. And it's like, duh. You know, one day I'm like, you owe it to yourself to figure this out. Like, why are you doing this? And so I took a leave of absence after I landed a major, like, theatrical role. And, you know, then just decided to pursue the same. the acting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What a journey. I'm making puppet show. You're making puppet shows. And didn't you work with special ed kids? Yes. I was a special ed teacher. Yeah. I have a special

needs son with behavioral issues. So when we were looking at that, I was like, tell us everything. Oh my goodness. I mean, in a way, I looked at it as my real job because even with the stuff I do with acting, I spend a lot of time doing motivational speaking around the country. Yeah. That's been a gift of mine. Kids who are like me growing up in harsh environments, and especially nowadays, my heart really goes out to them because the obstacles that they have with social media is far worse than the obstacles I had. It's so hard to find your way nowadays when you've got, you know, you only used to have a village telling you, no, do this, no, do this. Now you've got, oh, my goodness. You've got a whole world.

Yeah. I'm telling you, this is the right thing. And, you know, it's just crazy. Yeah. Yeah. So it's really tough for kids nowadays. And, you know, I always, I always want to encourage them and sometimes trick them into finding out who they really are. Because beyond all the noise, you've got to figure out who you are.

Yeah. And that's really freedom. I mean, true success is living your intended life. That's right. And so with me, I didn't know. I didn't. And there was nobody to tell me that, hey, man, do you realize you're always doing these creative stuff? And, you know, and when I used to recount stories to my friends, they would stop me and say, hey, man, you, you sounded exactly like so-and-so.

Oh, yeah. Like, you just became that person. I'm like, really? I didn't know I was naturally acting. Right. You know, so these are the things that, you know, I want to. people to find out who they are without learning what they're supposed to be. Yeah.

It's exhausting, right? I feel like there's so much information of like, here's how you should think. This is the right way. This is the wrong way. And then it's opposed against all these other beliefs. And it's really hard to decipher what's real for someone. And I feel like children can't do that without the space and the experiences. Right?

Like you having, for whatever reason, you had the opportunity to sneak out and go to acting class. And think of how many other guys in your situation didn't. And how many guys are trapped in those types of lifestyles that if they could have only gotten to the acting class or anything that spoke to their soul, how many more people we could free. Right? Yeah. Yeah. It's really, I mean, I remember when I was in college. and I was in a speech class.

And I did an assignment that I created, well, it was about how do we know what we really want to do? You know, and it's kind of like I pointed out the fact that we live from event to event to event. And then we graduate and then you get married and then you start living from your children's event to event to event. When does it stop? When do you spend enough time to step back and find out who you are? And I remember I did that and I got a B on that presentation that later turned into an A because the teacher said my speech was so effective that four people dropped out the next week. Whoa. And I'm like, whoa, really?

Whoa. Yeah. So because I talked about how do you know? Right. How do you know what, I mean, you know, what the hell do you know about? Yeah. And it was advocating, stepping aside and finding out who we are before we run ourselves into a trap. Oh, my God.

Wow. Yeah. So powerful. That's insane, really. Is that what, when you go around and you're doing speak, you know, you're speaking and your motive, is it basically this basis of that? Oh, no, no. No, that just happened to be something that was on my mind at that time.

But things are connected to, like, being, you know, finding your true self. Yeah. And, like, navigating around all the obstacles. So, yeah, I do speak to kids, especially kids who are like me, who were trapped in environments that kind of, you know, you see, one thing in the inner city, you have to, there's a game face that you're forced to put on. And one thing that's very sad is this culture that's gotten so so pervasive is that there are rappers out there. I mean, this rap culture just dominated. They're so pervasive that these rappers who were really nice guys, that if you look back and see it now, oh yeah, this gangster rapper is really a nice guy.

Yeah. That's influenced a bunch of kids to pick up guns instead of books. This is a tragedy. Yeah, it is. I mean, you know, the rappers themselves could say, oh, I'm no parent. The fact is, you're a role mob. Right. In fact, these rappers became rappers because somebody influenced them.

Right. And so, yeah, maybe there are a lot of people who know the difference between art and reality. and like adults should. But again, when kids are impressionable, what are they going to do? Because they believe you. They believe that you're, you know, ready to pick up a gun and whatever.

I remember when I was a teacher, one time I was leaving, this is an indelible, like, image for me. I saw this kid. He's leaving the school grounds. He takes his books and hides his books in his shirt and, you know, who cinches it up, right, and changes his whole look and starts walking down the street

looking real gangster. He had to hide the fact that he was going to get educated. You imagine that? Absolutely. I mean. I kind of did that a little bit myself. Yeah. I swiped duplicate books so nobody would see me leave school with books because I would have my

assignment, but I'd go home. And I'd have that same book. Yep. So that's an amped up version of what I had to do. Broad Ideas is supported by Loomi. Pumpkin spice lattes, freshly picked apples, terrible B.O. Ah! Let's face it.

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But yeah, so it's just far worse in those communities. And, you know, I want to encourage those kids to look, look, you know, it's kind of like, again, you're at your most impressionable. You're at your, the voice of rebellion. But it's not like there's something wrong with it. they're doing what everyone has done. A hundred percent. Yeah. And, you know, even kids from great households feel like they have to adapt this gangster lifestyle.

Right. Well, it's also everything, right? Like, you are what you eat. You are the common denominator of what you surround yourself with. It's a coping mechanism to stay alive, right? Like, it's in your DNA to be part of the village. So if you're witnessing that the village, you're witnessing that the. village is hard, is a gangster rapper, uses guns, even if there's a part of you that wants

to rebel against it, it's a survival tactic. Right. Right. Absolutely. So how do you encourage them to rebel against that and have the confidence or even the courage to do so when they've never seen that model? Well, yeah, because you have to present an alternative. Like, luckily, I saw.

some alternative. My life was changed leaving a gang fight one day, right? Cops came and we scattered. I was on a bicycle and I found myself lost in a neighborhood I had not been to before. I cut through woods and all kinds of different things. And I found myself in a neighborhood that these houses that were built around this lake. I didn't know this lake even existed. Really not far from where I was right near the projects. And I saw this young black couple moving into a house, and they looked like they didn't have a care in the world. Both attractive, both, you know,

they had this station wagon type of thing and a U-Haul thing, and they were just taking things into this house, and I'm like, and I remember the house had a pool. You could see the little sliding board that goes in the pool. And I watched them in all. like probably for about an hour or so. And that opened up something in me. And I was like, that's what I want to be.

That's exactly who I want to be. And the image I had before that was this guy who was a gangster who had all this respect in time. Yeah. Because you used to have machine guns in his car. And so that's who everybody looked up to. but the truth was shown to me and I'm going, that's why I'm angry. Because I haven't seen this.

Wow. This is what speaks to me. And ultimately, this is what I became. I was thinking that. Yeah. Yeah. And so from that moment on, I've been in search of what I have now. Yeah.

So beautiful. It's just the truth. It's moving. But when people see the truth, it opens something up. That's right. You know, because a lot of this stuff, the stuff just doesn't jive because the human animal is not supposed to live that way. Right. You know, so that's one of the things.

And that's why I think is very important having messaging in your art. Yeah. Especially coming from where I come from, I don't expect that to come from many other people. You know, I, you know, I, you know, in this industry, I've had a unique background, and I think it's incumbent of me to share that. You know, it's just what I'm supposed to do. Yeah. To duty now.

But how about what led you to be in front of that house they were moving in? You know, like when you trace the steps of like, that happened, the fight got broken up, you had to flee, you got lost, like all the things that lead to these moments in your life, you know, that are like, That's a movie in my life. That is a moment. You know, that really, if I didn't have that image, I don't think I'd be here right now. Wow.

It's so powerful. It's so crazy. And also, like, what I hear is the most important and tell me if this fits for you is integrity. Because integrity, especially as an artist and with messaging, Like on this show, our whole purpose is to bring conversations like this. We want to know what it's like to be human. How do we do it?

How do we help others be human? And you're never going to come here and hear gossip or shit talking other people or putting other people down. And that's our integrity, right? And I feel like there's been a whole industry, which has been out of integrity for so long. Right. Absolutely. And that's one of the reasons I even made this movie. In the Western genre, we had stars that were made of something different. I guarantee you, those people who did those movies, they had such integrity. They were made of, like, they've gone through something. And you can't hide when your eyes are this big. on a screen. You can't hide your nature. Right. And, you know, the Lee Van Cleefs and Charles Bronsonsons and Barbara Stanwicks,

all of those people, they were made of something that you couldn't take your eyes off. That's why a lot of Westerners today don't work because you've got people cast that feel like they just stepped out of Starbucks. Right? And so it doesn't match up with the harshness. of that lifestyle back then. I think Taylor Sheridan is doing a really great job. Yeah, he is. Yeah, I was going to ask what you thought of that.

Yeah. That are just full, full-fledged. Mm-hmm. And he's being rewarded from it. And for this movie, I made sure that I had people who felt like they had that timeless quality. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

And they'd have been through something. Yes. They could really play on that level where they have something to give. Yeah. that people, instinctually, we know deeper than you think, you know, really, because you look at someone and it's hard to hide who you really are. It's really hard. You know, especially when people are sharp. Yeah. So I've got, in this movie, I've got extraordinary people who happen to be actors. Oh, I love that.

Well, and that's a thing, too, is that so much of the acting now, like you said, Taylor Sheridan's doing an incredible job. But, like, there are a lot of roles now being filled based on someone's followers or based on, you know. Oh, yeah. I run into, like, it's, yeah. As opposed to who they are as an actor, their talent, their gifts, what they can bring to a piece. But it sounds to me like you care more about those elements than you do anything else. Absolutely do. And I should know better.

Right? There are people who, okay, I mean, things that balance themselves out. You want to, you want to cast it for people who are popular? Well, you get what you deserve. Ultimately, you know, so, so don't wonder why there's a lack of quality there or critics maybe hammering you. I wanted to make the best movie I possibly could. And if, you know, and that meant I didn't care about. the popularity or followers or something. So it turns out that the best people for this movie were people who responded to the script, you know? And if I had $50 million to do the same movie, it would ultimately wind up the same cast. I love that. Yeah. It's so admirable, you know, to really stick to it.

And I think it's a lot of the, you know, issues with. Well, one way I think about it is, if you're doing a movie, I mean, my goodness, it's like you have a village. Everybody are like, these misfits from all over the world and in the country that left home and joined the circus. That's it. And then got a chance to make a living out. That is amazing. Right. Yeah.

I don't feel that there's any room on one of my kids. my sets for bickering, anything negative, when you've got that going. Yeah. All these, these people were outstanding at what they do and they have integrity. And one of the things I'm most proud of is that on this set, the gaffers and grips and all these people who normally don't give a damn about the movie. Yeah. They were asking for scripts.

Oh, my God. They were into it and they wanted to, you know, because they were really, you know, taken, you know, by what was going on. And they said this is the first time they've invited their children to set. No way. Whoa. That says a lot. Yeah. You know that as a parent.

Yeah. You're not inviting your children anywhere toxic. Well, yeah. That, I mean, my wife, she's when they told me about that people are coming. to her and just saying that they love the environment on the set. And, you know, that's something I'm really proud of. You should be. I mean, creating that space and all of that for, like, the whole family you've brought together to make something is an amazing quality to have. And, like, for you to be the leader and to just set the bar. I mean, I think it's so admirable. I can't

say it enough. Yeah. It's, it's really, you know, we're really blessed to be with a do that and make a living at it. And if somebody's going to leave their house to work on something, I mean, I wanted to be something that they're going to be really proud of. Yeah. And I really feel that we've got that. Some, the reviews have been tremendous. Congratulations. Really blush. But one of the things that kind of sticks to me more than anything is that when I had the first like test screening, right, early on, I had. had a screening and a producer who came to the screening called me the next day and said, after I left your screening, I called my mom. And we hadn't spoken in eight years. But because of

your screening, I looked at things a little differently and we're putting things behind us and we're getting together. When he told me that, I said, well, I'm doing something right. And so if somebody a Hollywood producer who's, you know, dated to some degree and has seen all kinds of, you know, movies and if that can cause this man that would reach out and, you know, kind of clean up something in his life, you know, I feel very confident that there's going to be others that get those same messages. It's healing, right? So it's like all the through lines through your life, point. me to think that you're a healer, right? When it's teaching where it's the martial arts. Yeah, I want to know about that. When directing, acting, all of those things, basically you're a storyteller. I say, I say I'm a servant. Right. You know, it's all about service to others.

You know, we're entertainers. You know, one of my favorite quotes is, um, is Samuel Clemens quote where he says, two most important days of your life is the day you were born and the day you find out why. Oh, you have heard that one. Yeah. And so knowing why, what I'm here for, that really puts everything in perspective. And, you know, so I understand people are kind of condition to see my position as like, oh, wow, you know, it's just kind of bells and whistles and everything else.

But no, no, no, I mean, I'm a servant, you know. I'm not very comfortable with all the fanfare and stuff, but like that's a, that just comes with the territory. But, no, but I'm, I'm here to,

if I don't make your life better, I don't serve my purpose. Right. You know, really. Yeah. Did you have a mentor? I borrowed mentors.

Okay. Because I'm like how, I'd love to just know what your take on is, how did you get this character that you are? Because you have incredible character. So where did that come from? Is it through martial arts? Is it through, like, where did you look to to get this type of?

I think I'm very fortunate because, wow, like I said, I could have gone to another direction quite easily. And that would have truly been sadness. I don't know a lot of people who don't have the opportunity to get to straighten their life or have less of an opportunity to do that. But, yeah, I would borrow things that, you know, there might be someone that influences me here and the confidence of this person and that person. Like growing up, I looked at, there was a guy named Jim Brown, who was one of the most dominant football players. But he was very cerebral and dominantly physical.

And then I would see Arnold Schwarzenegger and his confidence. And there was something about that guy. And I'd take pieces of these type of things. And then, but then it's just like I've always had the yearning for clarity. And because, you know, I grew up frustrated about a lot of things. And I just wanted to, you know, I just wanted clarity. I wanted to find the truth in all things. And, you know, I think I'm very fortunate because, you know, I just adopted my own philosophies and things.

That just seems to work for me. Like, one being, I do something for the future every day of my life. And once that's done, I live in the moment. And that's served me well because there's something I learned from growing up in the hood. There's a beauty to that. There is a beauty. There's a beauty that sometimes gets the best of people because, you know, there are folks who live in the moment and it's like they're drinking from the river. The friendships and the relationships are of the best quality that I've ever seen.

So that influences me. But, of course, the downside is sometimes that lifestyle doesn't lend to thinking about the future, right? And so, you know, you go to the other lifestyles where people are very highly functioning in business and what have you. They're the other end of the spectrum where they will live their lives, business and, you know, having all these, you know, accolades and trappings. and then not enjoy life. Right. Right. And that's no life to live.

You know, going, saying what people think is successful and, you know, drumming that, that in your head all the time, that narrative. Right. And then how happy are you? What quality of friendships and relationships do you really have? So it's really, it points to we can all learn from each other. You know, look at every extreme. And so, yeah, these things were kind of made clear to me. Yeah.

You know? And the fact that I realized that when I, one day when I knew I was following what's in my heart, and I realized I'd already want it, you know, it wasn't, yeah, it wasn't about, you know, if I get, you know, discovered or anything. Right. It's like I'm following what's in my heart. I'm following what I want to do. How freeing is that? Yeah.

And then I would go into auditions and I didn't laugh at the director's jokes or I didn't care. You know, I didn't, I had no stress about like if I'm, if I'm cast or not. Yeah. And I'm like, you know, I came in with an attitude of, huh, I know they probably want it like this, but I'm going to do it this way. Good for you. Because that's what I want. Yeah. You know, I'm going to present to them something that, you know, I'm going to present them me.

And there's no other me. Right. So, or, you know, my take on a character. I looked at it as like, I come in as an independent contract. You know, so, hey, I'm going to, like, if I'm doing your floors, I'm going to start with that. And I'm going to take a lunch break at this time and I'm going to finish. So nothing was personal. And so, yeah.

That's hard, though. That is really, really hard. Well, they really can't reject. to you, can they? No, but it can feel like it. If you're playing Martha, I'm playing Malik or whatever, they can reject the Malik. And I don't know why. You know, it could be gassed already for all I know.

I don't care. Right. Like when my agent says you have a callback for what? What thing? What is that? I won't remember what it is because it's just my job was going in there and I'm going to, you know, as a contractor, I'm going to do this that way, you know?

Right. And then because they can't reject me. They don't know me. Yeah, but that's that, what that is right there is you deciding, I won't reject me. So then you become unrejectable, right? But when we put our power in other people's hands to be rejected, we're really rejecting ourselves. We're going, oh, they're right. True, true.

Or whatever. Yeah, there's going to be a voice. if it's there anyway, if you have a voice of doubt, you're going to find ways to feed that. But I really felt that the reality of the situation is, they don't know me. I mean, they really, like, the movie that changed my career, I played Mike Tyson.

And I went in for these auditions. And it came down to, like, It was a big deal at the time. And they had flown people from all over, and the people auditioning were going in and out. They were like, there was three scenes to prepare for. And so it was like eight final people. One guy go in, he comes right out three minutes later,

and out. And now was the last to go in. and I get in there and they tell me, okay, we're just going to do this one scene. Oh, okay, cool. I do the one scene. They go, all right, now do the second scene. And then they said me, they had me do the third scene.

And they're like, wow, how do you really have a good, you know, they start talking to me. And then director mentions that he saw a film that I did, a short that I had done. And now they're talking to me about the short. And we're talking about, like, you know, college, all kinds of different things. My background, I'm in there for 25 minutes.

Wow. Right? And so when I leave, I'm feeling really good. Yeah, you are. Everybody's like, you know, like, this guy's been in and all day. And they said, well, you know, thank you everyone. And so I'm pretty confident. I go home.

I get a call from the casting director. And they said, Mike is going to continue. They haven't made the decision. I'm like, what? And he said, do me a favor. If this goes on, if you are called back again, because this was supposed to be the final callback.

Right. So if this goes any, gone any longer, don't talk. Don't talk to me. I said, what? What are you talking about? He said, they freaked out, Mike. They said, there's no way that guy. I could play Mike Tyson.

He is far too intelligent. He is nothing like Mike. I said, wait a second. What about the audition part? Yeah. It's like they conveniently forgot that you were convincing as Mike Tyson and they started talking to you, Mike.

And they said, no, people are going to see right through this. He is no way like Mike Tyson. talk about pissing me off. It's pissing me off. I mean. I mean, this is true. And so they said, look, we're rooting for you, Mike. Don't talk anymore.

Oh, my God. And I'm like, what the hell? Yeah. What the hell? Mm-hmm. So because within them, you know, they want to cast a guy that they think is the character. Forget about this thing

called acting. Right. And intelligence to study a character and deliver it. And I'm talking to let them let them know I'm not really

going to bite you. You're safe with me. I get the acting. You're going to have that year. Like the director said, I put together a film that he's impressed by

that I edited, I wrote, directed, and everything else. But they're like, oh, no, wait. He's not going to be convincing as Mike Tyson. And so as it went on, I come in the room like, I'm going to tear your head off. And I didn't have to really act that part.

You're like a Martin. Yeah, you're not there. Yeah, I'm like. So I eventually got the role, but it taught me a lesson that they don't need to know who you are. Sometimes that, sometimes it's worse. So then if like I had an audition for like, say if I'm playing some, you know, crazed person, Yeah. How are you doing today?

I'm like, I'm good. I'm the park. So you just were permanently. Whatever. I would just be the character. Yeah. Wow. It's like, screw you people.

You don't. Yeah. You know, so it's. That's such an interesting story though. It's really interesting. And I opening. I see it. I saw a twist too because I thought you were going to take away something different,

but you took away the exact opposite of what I thought you were going to say. Mm. Is that they don't. need to see you. And I think that that is a huge. They don't have the access. They don't need to know who I truly am because they're judging me

as soon as I walk in the room. Yeah. So I walk in the room as the damn character. Mm-hmm. You know? Because, you know, they're limited into their thing. Yeah. Yeah.

There's an assigned image that I've had to fight through my entire life because even friends go, well, you know, try to I try to describe you to a friend of mine, and I couldn't do it. I'm like, why? And they said, well, because you're like, you could be the calmest person in the room or the most animated.

You'd be the funniest, the most serious. I've been a walking dichotomy my entire life, but that works in my position as a producer and director and what have you. We went to a comedy club one time, and this comedian joked about me, and he gave me the name, he said, you're Denzel Van Swartzenheart. Which was like kind of, like I was like, I was like, wow, that's kind of, it's kind of impressive

because, you know, for the obvious, like there's, I'm part of all those different worlds. Leading Denzel-ish quality, whatever, Van Dam, you know, Swartzon, the muscles. stuff and then Kevin Hart, comedy stuff, but you know, but that's

that serves to confuse people because they're, they're used to people being, you know, fit on one shelf and that's the shelf you belong on. Right. Don't confuse anybody by

doing something else. Like, you know, I remember one time when I was at a national martial arts tournament, you know, competing. And it was in a concert hall and they had a piano covered, and I sat at the piano, and I lifted it. And there was an audience that

was there, and they just started laughing until I started playing. Because they didn't know I played classical, you know, for years. And so it's just like, there you go, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Good luck at, you know, kind of, you know, you're assigned imaging. So you kind of confuse a bit, But that's been my entire life. That's why it's great that I'm doing this. So this acting and writing and, you know, producing. Yeah. That's just, it's just comfortable for me.

Right. Yeah, sometimes it's not comfortable when I'm just acting. Yeah. I get that. I get that. Yeah, it's because I'm thinking, I'm in my trail and I'm thinking, oh, shoot, did they remember that the sun is going to be? they better get these shots first

because we can recreate the sunlight against the building let me go run out and tell them you know what I think about that because the fact is like say if I'm doing the action movie most directors have shot maybe five action movies but I've been on a set of 80

right so there's a lot of things that I've experienced and you know it just doesn't go on my head I pocket these things. And so I can't turn off my producer and actor brain when I'm just the actor. Right. That's such a lucky thing for them to have because you can do that.

Yeah. And plus, you know, again, we all, you know, we join the circus. I mean, if I can, I want everybody to really, like, be glad that they came to set. Yeah. You know, I think it's such a, it's such a blessing to be able to do this. And make a living at it? Right. It is.

I know. And then when you work, I'm sure you've been around some people on some sets and you're just like, how? Like, you know? Because people can be difficult, unappreciative, ungrateful, assholes. You know, you get a whole mix. Yeah. And really, when I look at that, I go, wow, I don't even wish them any harm because they are their own, like, punishment.

Right. Like people who are that way. Right. I haven't seen anybody. I haven't met anybody with an inflated ego who was happy. Mm-hmm. No. So I can't wish anything bad on them.

Right. They're already suffering. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's like I just go, oh, well, that's, that sucks that you have to be that way. Right. So how did martial arts like come into your life? How did that all start?

Insecurity. To be honest with you. Yeah. I was a very insecure kid growing up, harsh environment, you know. I'd go into tears if there was a stray dog. I'd give that dog my last, you know, food or whatever. And like, wondered, what the hell is wrong with me? Because it was, again, like, I had the heart of an artist.

My brother is an engineer. Things rolled off of him. He didn't. Things didn't infect him at all. Water off and up. Yeah, so it's like, you know, wait a second, which one of us is crazy? You know? And so me, I was volatile.

Like, things affected the hell out of me, you know? And so, you know, it's like, you know how like people kind of grow up and you could blame everything on your parents? And I used to do that, and, you know, because that was accepted. Because you could say, oh, I'm this way because of this. You know, my father was a rolling stone. He was, you know, womanizer. He was a gangster. He did all this.

Now, if I was a gangster, I could say, oh, it's because my father was. If I was the opposite of a gangster, I could say it's because my father was. Right. Right. So when do we take a responsibility that it's us? You know, we can find who we are bouncing off of other stimuli. But really, it comes down to. this is who I am, you know?

Because it's sad when people will attribute things to their parents and think that that's all the work that needs to be done. You know, well, my father was like this. And then everybody will go, oh, you poor thing. Your work is done here. No. No. No.

Your work just started. Yeah. It just begun. Exactly. Yeah. Wow. I mean, but it's, I think it's so cool that you found that outlet, though, with your insecurity and with everything else, like with martial arts and even with your, you know,

drama classes or acting classes, you know, and you, you found your way to those things. I'm so lucky. Yeah, you are. You know, that, that's why I really, I really feel like it wouldn't make sense unless I gave back or, you know, really committed to, you know, talking to at-risk kids. Because how many people, how many. actors have gotten to where I got to who have probably been next to 12 shootouts and been shot and things that I've experienced that you only see on movies.

And I think that's one of the reasons I continue to be the happiest person I know. Because I remember those other things. I look at my life from 12-year-old me. and I'm like, oh my God, you need to be slapped if you complain. And one of the things I'm happy about is like, well, one of our daughters were talking. And like my daughter Morgan is basically, I forgot how it came up, but she's like, she's never seen me upset. I've never, she's never seen me.

What? Like raise your voice or anything like that? No, she's never seen. And in fact, one, like, what was that? It was right on wrong. April Fool's, I forgot why we did it.

But my wife and I, oh, this is sad. I feel, I feel kind of, you know, ashamed of what we did. No, say it.

Oh, man. Like, yeah, it was kind of bad. We came into the house and kind of act like we were having an argument. Just to see,

what would they say? Right. If we had, like, because we just think about, like, there are people who deal with this all the time. Right. And one thing I don't like to say very much is that, like, we've known each other 27 years and we really had maybe three arguments. Like, in the, what? That's happened. That's been like, it's ended in laughter, like half an hour later.

Yeah, we really. It's not like we don't try. All right. We need to know the secret, the magic way. I need to know everything. When are your birth date? I'm just curious. Capricorn, what are you?

Scorpio. And I'm, you know, so I mean, but it's, I love learning. I'm an empathetic person. But I have a philosophy of, I will prove the person right before I have proved them wrong. If I'm debating or if there's something that, you know, there's two different sides. If I can listen and I can explain. your side of it to your satisfaction and you know I understand well then you're open into my side of it because you no longer feel like you have to you know get you know get my understanding of it and

and also anything traumatic or a lot of misconceptions start from an emotional place and any anger that you have with something, there's a question that's asked. Like, what, when, why, how? Like, if you're in a traffic jam, you're like, what that? You know, how? Everything's a question, right?

And so, say you get to the end of the traffic jam, there's an accident. Well, are you mad anymore? No. No. You see that there's logical reason. Now, how many traffic jams does it take before you realize

it's not a conspiracy against you. There's a logical reason. And if you concern yourself with the reason instead of the emotion, you might find no reason for the emotion. Oh, wow. And that just works along a lot of things. Yeah, I'm like, can I do that?

Yeah. So if there's like, you know, someone is short on you about something And there's probably a reason there. Concern yourself with the reason, not the fact that what they did was illogical. Right. You know, somebody, you know, I get to a red light and somebody calls me an asshole. I'm not going to think, you know, all the good things I've done, how is this person going to call?

I'm going to be like, whoa, no, why do you say that? Oh, you cut me off back there. Oh, shoot, I'm sorry. I didn't realize. Accountability. You know what I mean? It's that simple. Right.

There's usually a reason for all these different things. And so looking at a lot of things that way, I don't really find a lot of reasons to become angry. Wow. Because there's, it's like, you know, it's just that way. Yeah. You know, there are some assholes and feel sorry for them. But usually that's not what you're dealing with. Right.

And I've had amazing conversations with people that you would never think that I would have amazing conversations and learn things from. I believe it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so it's just because I'm not, I'm not threatened. You know, somebody could tell me you're this and I'm like, wow, okay, I know I'm not. You know, why do you think that? You know, and, you know, so it's pretty easy.

With us, I love her more than life itself. So this thing. This is just so. No, but. She's electric, by the way. Yeah, like absolutely electric. No, but the truth is she was. was a better person than me.

That's true. And so to have a successful relationship with her, I had to become the man that she deserved. Right? No, that's just the truth. No, but just hearing it is just. So that, fortunately, just looking at the truth. And if I didn't do that, I would have sabotaged everything. Mm-hmm.

You know, and we wouldn't have the life that we have. So, I mean, I had to become the guy that she'd be out of her mind, not to have. And so we both got better. Yeah. You know? And so we have this two-person cult that's just, you know. Two-person cult. It is amazing.

It is amazing. We're, you know, we're. 27 years. I mean, that's a long time. You guys have known each other. Yeah. Yeah. And again, like, we normally.

don't like to tell people that we don't have arguments because it sounds funny. Right, because people are always like, oh, if you don't fight. It sounds like we're trying to impress people. No. Wait, well, how does your daughter react to the joke of you arguing? Oh. That's what I want to know. I know. I'm not going to like, wait, wait. She was so mad at this. Oh, when she found out, it was a joke you mean? Because she's never, she's never seen us argue. She's never. And so, yeah, it was bad. She really let us have it. She did not fight. Do the siblings fight?

No way. Always. Of course, yeah. But what an example you're setting for your kids to see this beautiful relationship? Yeah, our 22-year-old gave us the greatest compliment.

When she was like, what, she was 14? There was something at the time. Yeah, 13. She says, what she said? You're my relationship goal? Oh, she said, that was your hashtag relationship goal. Aw. Yeah.

For 13, that's very, yeah, yeah. But we say all the time more is caught than taught. Yes, absolutely. They're going to do what they see. Yeah, that's right. Not necessarily what you say. Yep. And so because their lives are so much more important than ours, you know, it's about us adhering and, you know, doing the discipline things.

You know, the things we discipline ourselves. And then they follow suit. Like, if I had to work out and I'm like, and they got past me and I'm like, I'm like, And they see dad getting up and it's like, I'm going to the gym. I don't want to do it. Right. But I said I would. And so they're like, oh, that's what you do.

That's what you do. Right. Yeah, we talk about that a lot, like how you put things in what language you use and everything with kids. Because I forget who do I always quote when they're like, oh, I get to go to work. Like it's like, you know, that's not that I have to. Sometimes I do it because it's like habit. Kristen Bell. Kristen was saying that.

But I was like, you know, you get so into the habit of like, Mommy has to go to work. I'm sorry. I don't want to leave you. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And it's like, wait, you have to spin it. So then they're brought up to believe like this is all a positive thing. Oh, yeah. Doing it for the positive reasons.

Yeah. Like when I would do movies and foreign locales or whatever, I always made a point that at the last week of filming, I fly the family out. And so what would happen is that, you know, you're at this place and now you've kind of got the layer of land. You've got kind of carte blanche in places. You know what restaurants to go to. You know what places to see. So you bring the family up and they get a chance to experience it. And so every time dad gets a job, it's like, wow.

It's positive. Yeah. So, yeah. So you do that, you know, little things like you do. you know, kind of, you know, kind of get ahead of the curve. You get ahead of the curve a lot. Yeah, one of the other thing that I share with the head of the curve thing that I was really happy about is that the, what I would do with the whole FaceTime thing, I would face time

thing, I would face time with the kids when I'm in the house with, right? Normally, just naturally do that a lot. And so we talk and we're just rooms apart. And so when I was gone, right? It's like you were in the next bedroom. Oh, I love that. That's so sweet. Because we forget that they're growing up in a different age.

Right. They sure are. So, yeah, I know, I'm like, this is the Jetsons and I'm talking on them. But they, that's just commonplace for them. Right. So my daughter has a question or something that, or funny idea or whatever. If I'm on set and that phone rings, everybody knows, shut it down. You're going to answer.

Because, yeah, I want to encourage her to feel like I'm in the next room. Oh, that's amazing. So that's the thing. I don't want to, you know, have this thing to where I'm out of pocket. I'm out of pocket. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That's so cool. I feel like you're a miracle. I do. I mean not genuinely. I genuinely. Yeah. No, what a beautiful example, you know. Well, you know, it's just these things that work for me. Yeah, but you came to play.

Like, you can tell you take your life seriously, right? That you have thought behind everything and that you're really intentional and it's inspiring. And I feel like, like you said you're lucky. I feel like you really are. I am. Do you have any sort of like spiritual foundation? Is there like any kind of higher power for you in your life? I borrow from a lot of things.

It's like your mentors. You're just borrowing. I borrow from a lot of things. You know, even though the movie, this has a lot of faith-based stuff in this movie. But, I mean, you can find inspiration from the Boy Scout model. Right. Right. There's so many things you can pull from.

Right. And that's the thing. Like, you know, I learn and borrow from cultures. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Right. Don't, you know, limit yourself in your mind and your world.

Yeah. And all the traveling, you know, I'm sure you've been exposed to so many different things and people and beliefs and, you know, just from work and all of that. Yeah. So a meaning machine. You can extract meaning from anything that you encounter. Oh, yeah. And just love learning. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I love learning. That's why I always say, if I'm wrong, then I learn something. Right. So I look forward to being wrong. And that's another thing about with my wife and I. There's no ego. And so nobody's trying to protect themselves or, you know, kind of like be shamed because they're wrong. Nobody, who cares? You know what I mean? So there's no, there's no tension. I want to grow up in your household. Yeah, I was going to say, you got to give lessons on it. Yeah, I know.

It's so cool. And I just want to know how you guys met. We met at a club. Oh. What club? It was a friend of a friend of a day, Dave Brown. Yeah, he's a party promoter. And he's, you know, he's best friends with Jamie Fox.

Okay. He threw a party. And so, you know, I'm kind of, I would go out and I feel, like I was always this undercover person who always looked for the one. Yeah. Right? Really. And, but I, my presentation might look like the guy that's about town, right?

And so, you know, I'd go, I went out and, you know, and her friend, she had a friend that was very vivacious and, you know, kind of showed all of her attributes. in a way. And she was one of these people that, you know, just it gets the guy, that type of person. And she was very friendly. And I looked around to her friend, who was every bit as gorgeous, but not showing it to the world and was much more reserved and really was genuine and had this energy about her. And so I just kind of made my way around talk to her because there's this other person that, you know, that to me, we jived with it and we danced all night.

Did? Oh. Is it like, do you guys have, you love to dance? Do you guys have a song and did it come from that night at the club dancing? There's too many songs that we danced. I'm trying to get like, okay, what was like? That's so cool. I mean, you know, so that was.

That was it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. I mean, you know, we, you know, I still had to grow up and, you know, kind of, you know, slay my dragons. You said, like, yeah. And then, you know, become, like I said, the guy who deserved it. And so, here we are. 27 years later.

Yeah. Gosh, this whole thing, like you guys, your story, you know, everything is just so inspiring. and like it's just such a beautiful, I don't know, everything. I just, you know, look up to you, both of you so much. And what an example you're setting for your children. And it's so admirable. Thank you. Thank you for sharing with us.

Thank you for having us. We're so excited to see your movie. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I encourage a lot of people go out and see it. Yeah. I think it's time we should all laugh together. I agree.

Realize how much we have in common with each. Right. Yeah. We really do. We really do. And I think it takes seeing the world that way. It's not a bunch of shitty people. There's good people all the time, everywhere. And we need to not be so against each other. Yeah. Laughter can do that. Yeah. And I want to share this message of forgiveness. You know, because I mean, there's things that, you know, things in history that we can learn from. But we can also put those things in this place and move on. Yeah. You know, so that's the overlying message of the film and the one that I was so happy that that producer, you know, grasp onto. Mm-hmm. You know, so I hope to have more reactions from the audience like that. I bet you will. Yeah.

I see it. The vision is there. I'm going to call my mom that I haven't called in eight minutes. No. I was like, whoa, really? Yeah. Yeah, well, thank you so much. Thank you so much.

And I'm glad you were here too, even though. Yeah, seriously. I know. I was like, we need a mic. And it's really special to be able to witness. Really, truly. So thank you guys so much. And we can tell you're not lying about all of the arguments and stuff

because we're looking right at your wife. And she's agreeing the whole time. The proof right there. You got the proof. All right. Well, thank you so much. Thank you, thank you, guys. Yes.

Guys, we just shared tacos. We did. Did we? We didn't share. We shared in eating tacos. We each took a bite of each taco and then passed it around. Yeah. There's a game.

Pass the burrito. Have you ever played that? No, what's that? No, it's an actual board game. It's like a kid's game. Yeah. Yeah. It's fun.

You get. like, pelted with a, like, squishy actual burrito that comes with the game. Hmm. Anyways. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

What's new? I don't know. I was new with you guys. I have something. Oh, great. Yeah. Is it the side part? There's the side part.

I, so Breyer is learning an instrument and she chose the guitar, right? Yeah. So we went to get her a guitar for her lessons, and she got a really cute guitar. And I was in the acoustic guitar room. Where did you go? Guitar Center. And I was like, I looked at other places, but they didn't have a half-sized guitar. That's what she needed.

Well, you hear your guitar center is probably a good place to get guitars. I've heard. It's in the name. Yeah. And so we're in the acoustic room, and I'm looking at these guitars. And I'm like, this one's really cute. Okay? And it says, why are you guys looking?

Because I don't know where this is going. It's feeling weird. is just slobbering all over itself. Gertie is making a special appearance. A little gert squirt. And I was like, oh, and it was in the section it says used. So it was not expensive and it was cute. It's a three quarter size guitar, which is smaller and I'm small.

I was like, you know what? It would be really fun. If like I got a guitar, two, I'm going to have one, but like one, this little one, because it seemed appropriate for me. And I can learn while prior is learning. So I'm like, you know what? I'm going to buy myself this guitar. So we go and Breyer gets her guitar and then I go to pay for my guitar. And they're like, okay, you can pick it up in two weeks.

And I was like, I have to wait two weeks from my guitar. I was like, it's right here. Like, why can't I take it? And they're like, well, there's a police hold on it. And I was like, wait, what? They're like, there's a police hold on it. You tried to buy a haunted guitar? They're like, there's a police hold on it.

And we have to wait to look clear is to make sure that it's not stolen or like from criminal whatever. And I'm at the counter and I'm going through that thing. Like, you know when you feel like, fuck, I'm already up here and they think I'm going to buy the guitar. So if I back out now, like, I feel like that's not polite. And like I ought to just go through with it now. And I'm going to wait two weeks and come back all the way fuck out here to pick up this guitar. Anyway, so I bought it. And they put it.

So it's on hold still. And Briar's like, mom, why can't you take your guitar? I was like, there's a criminal hold on it. Why don't you go in and post a picture and be like, does anyone know who this guitar belongs to and you could find its rightful owner? Yeah, did you take a picture with the guitar? I am not interfering with the police. I feel like they're handling it.

It's also not an expensive guitar. Right. It's probably just a policy too. It's a lot of bands get, you're stolen. I just thought it was more funny to be like there's a police hold on your guitar. I was like, of course, the one guitar. What color is it? It's cute.

It's just like a normal wood. It has like the little circle has like an embroidery looking thing. It's a classical guitar, I was told. I know nothing. I mean, who's stealing kids guitars? Actually, I should get a guitar. You, anyone? Anyone.

Okay. Yeah. I should get Breyer's guitar. People steal things. They don't care. Like, I've had my kids freaking diaper bags stolen. They don't care. Diapers are valuable.

I mean, I feel like that's more legit. Yeah, when I went, when I got frauded and I was like Walmart and we looked it up and It was like bottles, diapers. Have you been robbed? My car got broken into last week. What? You didn't tell me this. It's the third time it's happened.

In front of your house? Yeah. You need to move. Yeah, but it's anywhere. I mean, that happened in Granite Bay when we were in like a tiny little precious town. We still, you know what the kids is. Your car got broken. Was it unlocked?

It might have been unlocked. See, I was going to say her car's always unlocked. Well, when we live in South. Pasadena, Natalie's car got broken into... Really? And our garage got broken into a near see. Which I think she maybe just left it open. Yeah.

But it was... See, just like she's saying, the door was unlocked. Here's a funny story. Well, I don't know if it's funny. Friends of ours... Wait, have you ever been robbed? I was stupid. So many times.

But not my car. Oh, that's weird. Not really. And lock my car. My house? You get new cars. so often and people probably assume that they're like i-tech security no it's behind her big gate that's why i park on a street like the common folk that is true i do not have a big gate

you've got big gate energy all right as you were i don't remember what i was saying you said here's something funny our friends oh i don't know Oh, this is funny. Actually, it's kind of ironic. So our friends who, a long time ago, were going to get engaged, the gentleman left the ring in his car. And, like, the day before he was supposed to propose or whatever, like, it got stolen.

Because that's hilarious. Out of his car. So he had to use, he was proposing at Disneyland, so he bought a plastic princess ring to propose with. They are now divorced. So. Oh, yes. I remember that one.

has a bad omen. Is it a sign? Was it like a family ring, too? No, but it was not cheap. Not cheap. Do you think that's a sign? I wonder, because that brings up signs. Like, what do you read into?

Do you only read into ones that work for you? You know what I mean? Right. Rob, Rob's all about signs. I have signs all the time. All the time. They're just like everywhere. Do not enter.

Do not enter. Yeah, that's your excuse for being a great. You guys, I didn't actually check my time. my teeth. Caution. That has a side of my teeth. Let's see. Do we want to talk about this?

The last couple episodes ago. I couldn't release a video because I had a huge thing of food at my teeth. The whole interview. Did you? It's the whole interview. Do you know that, right? I assumed. I just didn't want to look because it's embarrassing.

I am a person that tells people. I'm a person that tells people. Like, even if I don't know you that well, I'll be like, yo. You got a booger. I don't know. I don't know if I'll tell. So it depends. Like you might want to.

Natalie is really the only one I'll tell of. Well, yeah. Like you're super. You would tell us. No, you would let it hang just because of embarrassment. Well, not because you would say something. No, I would tell you both. 100% you'd be like you've got shit in your teeth.

Yeah, that's about it though. Other people, you just let them have it? Yeah. Mm. I trust you wouldn't do that to us. I didn't see it. I didn't have my glasses on. Well, I was on the other side of you.

Well, it was hand the sun was out. Shut up. We all, you guys won that round. Okay? You really did in a very powerful way. You were right. Very powerful way. You were really right.

Not as powerful as that woman convincing you to get them in the store. And then the other guy convincing you to get them again. Have you gotten rid of both of them? I still wear them both daily. Hold on. I just have to buy new one. You have two pairs? You did this last time.

Oh, God, Rachel, I worry about you. We literally talked about the second pair. It's starting to get scary. No, we didn't. We talked about the second pair, and you said, what are you talking about? Yes. And it had been like a half hour since we had talked about it. I have no.

Costco? Rachel. Costco is sounding a little familiar. The guy at Costco convinced me after the lady that told me them spy or convinced me. Did I engage in this conversation? I mean, we have it on video, I think. Two or three times on video. I'm worried.

I'm worried. I'm not even kidding. And then you'll say things. You did that to me today. You're like, this person said this. I'm like, that's what I've said to you 300 times in the past two days. It's concerning. Yeah, I think she's broken.

I'm definitely broken. Can we return her? Good thing you don't drink alcohol because you have real bad wet brain. It'd be really broken. You're just too busy being a lot. mom. That's like really your full identity. Yeah, no, I do nothing. How boring is that? We try and tell you all the time. Yeah, you've been invited to like a lot of things. God, you guys. You don't have to be boring. I do have a lot of things coming up in one week.

That's true. Where I'm leaving my house a lot. And you probably won't for like six months after that. Correct. But there's like a week of like a lot and I'm like already freaking out. Like what am I going to do? Why? I don't know. I think I have co-dependency with my daughter. She's going to be fine. I know. She might actually be better for it. Yeah. Yes, it will be good for her. We're too, yes. Yes, correct. I support it all. She's actually quite independent. Like, she does a lot of playdates. She does a lot of things.

Good. It's the sleeping. Yeah. That's it. But I relate. I was like that as a kid. You know, you want to be cozy. Don't she sleep with your mom? Here, at home. Sure. She doesn't like sleeping out. Right, yeah. Does she get nightmares?

You know what? We, during COVID, started to read Harry Potter, and ever since we started reading that, she started to get nightmares. Calvin watching it was when he started getting nightmares, the, like, spider scene. But he has solved his nightmare issue. Wow. He drew. Oh.

A picture of a face that he keeps next to his bed that protects him. That's so good. And he's like, since he's told me, like, since I've drawn this, I don't get nightmares anymore. That's amazing. And he turns, like, all the lights off now. Wow. That's amazing. And he sleeps on his own?

He sleeps with a dog. Aww. That's cute. Which she used to hate sleeping with him. And we have, like, a lazy boy in his room. Well, we got rid of it, but it used to be in there. What? Where did it go? It went in the garage.

Oh, okay. But he had a lazy boy in the corner and she, like, wouldn't sleep. She'd always just jump off and go on the lazy boy. Yeah. But she is now transition. I think it got, like, too cold in there. So now she needs his body heat. So now she'll actually, like, sit and cuddle.

Probably really helped him. But yeah, have her draw a face. Yeah, have her draw a face. But he came up with that on his own. Yeah. That's really interesting. And he's, like, very proud of it. He's very evolved.

That you just, like, somehow this face stops his nightmares. That's amazing. That's great. Yeah, she has it in her head Certain places or beds. We'll give her nightmare. You know what I mean? He would say he has nightmares

like every night. That's what he used to tell us. But would he wake up and get you? He stopped because we weren't thrilled by a 2 a.m. How do you stop? I still have. We all sleep in one bed. Yeah, that's...

All four of you are in the bed now? Yes. I know you would like take turns and be in different beds. There's always turns, but for the most part, We all end up in one bed, four people. Not on the twin bed, I hope. I mean, we just have a rule with that, like, dog's not in our bed,

Calvin's not a lot in our bed. Yeah, but I get the concept of a rule. I don't understand how to implement it. Yeah. I mean, it was, it was like. I truly don't understand how you do it. It was just a routine that we developed immediately, like. Right, you have to, if you start from the beginning.

Yeah. Right. Like, Calvin and Vincent still have the same routines. Like, they had since. they were born. Yeah, I fucked up. I fucked up. Well, no.

I have the same routine. It just involves Breyer. Yeah, yeah. So now that's going to be a very hard habit to break. Yeah, I know. But she's excited. Like, we're redoing her room. And, you know, there's things you can do.

And I'll probably be sleeping on one of her bunks for the first few nights. They say to make a book, like, where they go through it and they draw the pictures and you write it out, like, Breyer's sleeping in her own room, that kind of thing. Well, I was thinking of, like, doing a chart, and each night she does it, you put, like, a sticker, and then when you get to a certain point, then there's a reward. We did that when he was waking up in the middle of the night. Right. It was, like, every ten... You did a chart?

Every ten nights you got a star, you could pick out a toy. Yeah. But, like, a box of hot wheel. Just, like, a positive incentive to, like... Yeah. And then it was too often that it became every once a month after you get 30 stars, you get a hot wheel car. Shepard wouldn't understand that. I don't say that.

You don't know. You got to find something he likes enough. He gets it. You think he would get that? Yeah, because the more you do it and he'll see what you're doing each day. And when he gets to a certain spot, there's something going to happen. He totally is going to understand that. I think it's my problem because I like to listen to him breathe.

Yeah, you don't want to sleep without him. Sounds like your problem. No, but because he has breathing issues. Like if he gets a cold or. whatever. I'm like, I can't... He doesn't have a cold every day, though, Olivia. I think he has a cold every day. I'm not kidding. I think he has a cold every day. And I feel unsafe. Your fear is that he's just going to have like an asthma attack or something and need to go to the hospital and I'm not going to be there to hear it. And then... You're not always going to be able to be there, though.

Well, someone will. Yeah? He's never going to sleep in a room by himself. I know. I need to get him in his own bed. We went away. you know, a few days ago, and we left him with my brother and his grandpa, and they had to call my mom into this situation to come and stay. Oh, you didn't tell me this? Yeah. The boys wouldn't sleep in the bed with my brother or their grandpa. They needed a mommy.

But they slept with Cecee. Yeah. Easy. Yeah. Like right on top of her. Are they good at sharing the bed? Because that's the other thing with Calvin. No, it's awful.

He will sleep sideways. Oh, completely. This isn't an option. I'm not going to sleep if you're not. kicked in the head. Oh, all the time. And then they flip every, it's, it's awful. I'm tired, you guys. Can we stop talking? This is not good for anyone. No, it's not. Something needs to be done. I think I need like an intervention. I think we both do. Yeah. Yes. This is your intervention. It's time for you to sing this song. Which one? Your song. What's my song? What's my intervention?

Hi. Oh, it's me. Hi. I'm the problem. It's me. At tea time. Everybody agrees. I wanted that pillow.

You didn't get it for me. It's all I wanted for my birthday. What? The pillow that's embroidered that says it's me. Hi, I'm the problem. It's me. The Taylor Swift pillow. It's not a real Taylor Swift pillow.

Somebody embroidered a Taylor Swift pillow with those lyrics and I thought I needed it. There's always Chris. I just felt like it was a necessity because it's me. Hi, I'm the problem. It's me. Rob has fancy socks on. That's the kind of socks I always wear. You always wear fancy socks. You know what? I know socks stores. Now I know what to get you. They got to be like thin though. I know. I see what you're wearing. You're not wearing thick athletic socks. I'm fairly particular about my socks. Do you wear those with tennis shoes? Not surprising. Yeah. Okay. Good to know. No, because Jeff, I got him a new pair of tennis shoes, and he was asking, he was like, do I wear these socks or these socks?

And I got him fun, cute little socks with, like, mushrooms on them and, like, all these kind of characters. And I was like, wear these. But I thought you can't wear normal dressish socks. No, the real thing is pants or shorts. Huh? If you're wearing pants or shorts, it's like, technically I'm not supposed to wear these kind of socks. with shorts because they're too tall. But you can wear them with tennis shoes.

I wear them with shorts, too. But shoes don't matter. Oh, Rob doesn't get well. Yeah. But yeah, you can wear those with any type of shoes. Do you wear shorts? Nope. Yeah, so what are you talking about?

You're like, I wear these with shorts on the one time I wore shorts to play soccer, softball or whatever. He plays softball. Oh, I do wear shorts to play softball. Do you wear those? No, he has softball song. Softball song. Softball talk. Yeah.

Hello. Nice. Do you play a song when you go up to bat? I do have a album that I play on my way to every game. To pump you up?

It's not a pump up. It's more of like a superstition thing. I mean, it is like a semi higher energy. Okay. One song on it. Give us an example. It's this band Circa Survive.

Oh, it's just an album from a certain band. Yeah. And it's like superstitious? Superstitious, yeah. Do you win every game? We went a lot of games We went undefeated last season

So But this has been going for like a year and a half That album But it also like ruins my Spotify Wrapped at the end of the year What? Wrapped Where they like recap your year

Because it's always that Which Is fine I was gonna say you really care about that It's not an indicator of what I'm What I'm actually listening to Mine is Lyle Lyle Crocodile And so

But I don't know I don't let the boys use my Spotify so that it doesn't mess that up. They have their own Spotify. Oh, they have their own Spotify. See, at least Breyer's like into Taylor Swift's. Like that's all we're listening to right now, but at least, you know, I like it. Have you tried Woody Woodpecker? But it's building your algorithm.

You're fucking with your algorithm. I don't care. I would listen to Taylor anyway. Well, yeah, but if you want to like find other music that you know what we should do. You know what we should do? You know what we should do? Like I listen to, it doesn't mess with that. Like, I don't get it.

It does a little bit. It does. Lou, we should take Rob's phone. Yeah. And just put country music. And so within the end of the year, it's all just country. I'm going to send you a playlist. Yeah.

He won't listen to it. Will you not even try? No, I'll listen. Do you like lyrics? Do you like lyrics? Yeah, but you know Rob, though. Yeah, but do you like lyrics? Do I like lyrics?

I don't think you're going to get Rob with country lyrics. Oh, yeah, I don't know. I don't think that's going to be the hook. I mean, I like the lyrics, yes. But he's not really like, oh. It's an important part of whether a song is good or not. Because there's some country artists that I believe you would like, that you'd be like, hmm, this is actually really good music. Okay.

I have said this, and I'm going to say it here, I have never liked country music, okay? Me too. I've never been a country. I'm always like, no, no, I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. That's how I was. There are a few songs over the years. I'm like, okay, you get into this.

There's this one artist in his new album I have been listening to, Zach Brian. Correct? Correct. I really like the album. Because it's amazing album. No, it's like he's a really good album. I know. Whatever you guys like.

Well, I'm telling you, because I'm like you. And so if I can say that, like I'm putting his music on. It's a big deal. Yeah. I mean, there's like older Kings of Leon. feels a little more like country to me. I mean, I see what you're saying, but... Which that... I can fuck with that. That's fine.

That's what a lot of these people are like. I found the article and sent it to you, Rachel. You did? Yeah. Oh, my God. I don't know. Well, we need to tell people what you're referring to as well. There's a song called My Party, I think.

Yeah. And because of The Times, which is a great album. Yeah. That's written about Rachel. Well, let's not say it's written about it. I mean, there was something that happened that inspired that I, like, she was at my party and it was me. I'm the she that was at a party. That's a good song, too.

It's me. Hi. I'm the she. It's me. Oh, boy. I hated country music. Hated. I was like, never.

Not going to happen. Then once I got converted, when we went to Nashville this past whenever, I literally went to Jeff, thank you for changing my perspective because I'm so in love with so much of the music that I feel really grateful that he opened my mind to it. You think that at 35 with as much as like music is an identity to me that I'm going to be converted? I don't think it'll be. I'm still not officially converted.

I'm not. But I think you would appreciate like Zach. Brian, like some of his songs, I think you as a lover of music, you'll for sure appreciate. I think you'd be like, this is good. I don't think you're going to be like, Jim McGrath. Come in, let's go, guys. You know, like, I don't see that for you. Yeah.

But maybe. I can say with. Garth Brooks. Rob's going to be like, guys. No, my mom and sister love country music. Oh, they do? Yeah, yeah. Oh, Hannah.

Tell us. But like pop. But like pop country. What do you consider pop country? I mean, I love all that stuff too. I'm not going to lie. I love it all. The trailer, I think, what's the trailer?

I think, you think my tractor sexy? What's that song? What? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, all this stuff. Yeah. Pop country is like, Jesus take the wheel? Like, is that pop country? She thinks my tractor's sexy, I think is more.

They'll like party drinking country songs or not for me. But that whole. That's a whole different type of country Which I'm into too, like I like my chicken fad Like that kind of Casper is the one Cold beer on Friday night

I don't know that's one But that I wouldn't push on you I wouldn't even fuck with that on you I mean you're thinking more just like Southern Folk which I Yeah I like Southern folk Yeah I like a cowboy Oh

I sure do Oh Oh No but like when I I don't mean like She's like I like a cowboy I don't mean like that

Is there a specific cowboy You're thinking of? That's not what I would say We know you like cowboy Yeah Cowboys Boys, sorry What did I say?

I like a cowboy? Yeah Well yeah Well you were saying I like a cowboy Yeah Not a specific cowboy But like I like a cowboy But like I like a cowboy

Yeah I like cowboy Okay Okay Like when you say I think his tractor is sexy I'm like, uh, tractor is like, sure, but I'm not going to be listening

to your song. You're not going to be singing it to listen to that. Ever. I am. But what I would try and get you to listen to, I do think that you would have an appreciation for. I'm very curious to how this is going to go. Okay, cool. I'm making a

playlist for you called converting you. But you have to really know, you know it. Yeah. I know what songs. Like you wouldn't put colder weather on there. colder weather is a genius fucking song. That's what I'm saying. I don't think he'd be mad at that.

I don't think he'd be mad at colder weather. You don't? No. That's the first song she sent me and trying to convert me like six years ago. I think you have good taste. So I think that you would have an understanding of like, okay, I get that.

That's not, you know, I like my chicken fried. However, I did have fried chicken. But you do like your chicken fried. And it was so good. I sent her to my food. favorite place. Oh my God. That was so fun. Where was it? It was called. What is it called? Monells. Monels, but we didn't know what we were getting into. She's like, go to Monell's. Every day, like, stalking me. I was talking. Did you go? Did you go? So we walk in and there's like, it's like this old little,

like house basically with these two long tables and they're crowded with a bunch of people. And they're like those two seats. And I'm like looking like trying to see where the seats are, you know. And they're like, those ones. I'm like, with. those people? Wait, do you not know what a communal table is? I know what a communal table is, but this is different.

I told her. I didn't know what it was. This isn't a communal table. I don't think I said communal table. I said family style. Yeah, so I thought family style means you order a bunch of dishes and you shit. The communal table is where you like sit next to someone

you don't know. Yes. This is different. You sit next to someone you don't know and you share the meals with them. Yeah. Oh, well, that's a little weird. It was unbelievable.

I sat down and they're like, I was like, what the heck is happening? That does not check out with you. Well, they were very surprised that I was at a video there. You would be like spraying hand sanitizer on people before they touch food. That is my favorite place. You literally share, like, we sat down and they're like, here's cornbread, here's biscuits. Like, I'm getting up putting the chicken on the kids' plates, but not even my kids.

And I'm just saying, it's fucking amazing. We went so many times when we lived there. Like, we could walk there from the apartment we were in. And it was the greatest thing in the world. That is my one plan. And they had a placar on that I didn't realize going in. It was like, come as strangers, leave as friends. As friends, yeah.

And then I was like, oh, that's exactly what happened. Like, as we left, we're like, bye, bar. Family would come visit. We went there. How long did you live in Nashville? Well, like, I worked there. So we were there on and off for, like, probably five or six months. Wait, how long were you on that show?

I feel like I did an arc of six episodes, but I could be wrong. This is Nashville or this is part of Dixon? You were on it that long? I'd have to double check that, but like I feel like I was on it for I'm probably wrong. Maybe it was three. Maybe it was three. I used to go to Nashville as a kid all the time.

As a kid? My grandparents lived just outside of Nashville. Where? Franklin. Winchester. Oh, okay. Like a small little golf town. And we would stay like at the Opry land

Right next to the Opera Land. Hotel. Yep. Did you go into the hotel? We went and saw a show at the Grandin-Orii-Land Hotel. Yeah, there's a boat in the hotel. No. It's a thing.

You can go with the boys. It's cool as fun. Yeah. The Grandal Opry, did you ever see a show there? You know that's not the original, though. What? That's not the original Grandal Opry. What do you mean?

They moved it and built this big thing and Opry land and everything. It's not the original. Right, but they still, it's still. But it's the Granal Opry, but it's not the original building where it originated. Longest show. longest running live musical show in the history of the world. That's crazy. That's nuts.

The rhymin is what's still original, right? The rhyman. How long? 95 years. Wow. Consecutatively running. I know, 100-year-old granny. Yeah.

He's been singing the same tune. So we walked into the Grand Rale Opry and it's just sea of white hair, right? It's just like the whole place. Jeff fit in. The whole place. Shut up. The whole place. senior citizen.

We sit down. You brought your dad? We had the best. My dad in heaven. No, Rob. He's making a joke about Jeff being older. He's not. He brought your dad.

Jeff is a handsome man. I know he is, but. And a Heelhouser. I had the best time and when we were done, I was like, this is my scene. Like, this is how I want to watch a concert from here on out in a cushioned seat with all old people sitting down and just clapping. Very strong smell of perfume.

I'm telling you, I was all in. Is this where your love of country music came from this trip? No, I haven't. Since I started dating Jeff, he would listen to country music, and I would be like, I don't know if I can do this. It's just not my scene. And then as time went on, I'd be like, oh, I like that song. Oh, I like that one.

I mean, I listen to Shania Twain a lot in high school. It doesn't count, though, I guess. I'm going out tonight. Go for it. Whose bed have your boots been under? Whose heart did you see you? I wonder. This time is going to feel like thunder, baby.

Oh, wait, do you like bluegrass? No. They did this bluegrass band at the Opry, and it was like they did a cover of creep. Like banjo? Yeah. I love a banjo. It was like a five piece freaking bluegrass band and they did creep by Radiohead and like three other covers.

And I think they were like the cleverlies or something. It was so much fun. It was fun. No. You know what, Rob? You should watch a little show I like to call. Heart of Dixie. Okay, well.

That's all full. Yeah, that's all folks. I hope I didn't have stuff in my teeth. I've been concerned this all time. Like on this side. Yeah, a little bit. Okay, bye. That was a hate gum podcast.