Broad Ideas with Rachel Bilson & Olivia Allen - My New Pursuit of Happiness with Ashlyn Harris

Episode Date: March 3, 2025

Rachel and Olivia talk to former pro soccer player Ashlyn Harris about parenting, boundaries and finding the right person at the right time. Later, Rachel and Olivia hang out in Producer Kevin’s studio and discuss kids having to adjust to different house rules and coaches of children sports team getting a little too drunk with power. Watch the video of this episode HERE!Make sure to check out Ashlyn’s podcast Wide Open, which is produced by iHeart Women’s Sports! New episodes drop weekly on Mondays, on the iHeartRadio app and anywhere you get your podcasts.Like the show? Rate Broad Ideas 5-Stars on Apple Podcasts and SpotifyAdvertise on Broad Ideas via Gumball.fm See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a Headgum podcast. Hax is back for its fifth and final season, and so is The Hacks podcast. Join the Hacks creators and showrunners, Lucia and Yello, Paul W. Downs, and Jen Statsky as they unpack the Emmy-winning comedy series. On each episode, here's stories from the set, what goes on in the writer's room,

and how these beloved characters close out their final season. Watch Hax streaming exclusively on HBO Max and listen to The Hacks podcast, on HBO Max or wherever you get your podcasts. Because people die. Good morning. Today on broad ideas, we have world famous soccer player phenom Ashlyn Harris. San Diego.

Okay. We do. We do. Yes. I broke. You broke. You guys, I broke. It was good.

It's okay. We're still in. All right. We're still in. son diaco not enough news anchors or just doing anchorman quotes no

that's what's missing that's what's missing which I mean can we take a second how much better would the news be if they started every segment with that you've heard it here first let's get to action and later

recording audio and video we're so happy to hear that Kevin I always announced when I always announced when I'm recording so people don't think I'm sneaky recording. We really appreciate it. So we stopped talking shit about people? I won't stop talking about. No, we're going to start.

That's what I do. You can't have a boot. Oh, thank you. You can't have a podcast and not talk shit. I actually got these in Paris and I'm like they're the best like why is everything better there? Everything. I have this ointment. I do get all my skin care there. At the pharmacy.

Pharmacy. Every time. I came back and I had to put, I had a whole carry-on suitcase full of toiletries. And then I like put it in a bin at the top of my like linen closet. Yeah. And that way like for the next like year, I just pull when I'm done. Yes. I'm not just getting one. I'm getting seven of everything.

Absolutely. Because when are you going to be back? Yeah. And then my friends come in and are like, but I want that A313. And I'm like, bitch, you think you need to take a flight. You need to take a flight Sounds like You're going somewhere

You need a trip Yeah You're not taking my fucking stock Now do you live here So I have two children Yes Very young so I do 50-50 Custody with my ex-wife

So I my children are in New York So I go back and forth Because I saw snow Like I was looking at some pictures I'm like okay so you're Yeah I saw snow I saw snow I bought a house upstate.

Oh, amazing. Because it's just like so tight, like in the city. I have like a two-bedroom apartment, which costs me five mortgages anyways. And I just, I want to go upstate. So I bought a place upstate. I have like 23 acres. Oh, my God. It's like a beautiful black barn at the top of a hill.

Amazing. And I have like a local farmer who grows hay. And then it's like I get an agricultural exemption, so it cuts my taxes to like nothing. Amazing. So it's like, why wouldn't I do it? Why wouldn't you do it? Yeah, why are we here, though? I just feel that in this landscape, at any point, people are nuts.

I need to be away from everyone. Yeah. I agree. And I can grow anything I want if I need to. And everything around me is like very, very big time farmers. So one's a dairy farm and one is livestock and like any type of chicken meat, pork, and then everything's seasonal. So that's everything's better. Like every day, especially as a mom, I'm like, how are we recalling everything and people are dying?

Everything. I'm like, are we not regulating fucking anything? I know. I was thinking that the other day. It's something else on Instagram. They're out here trying to get rid of us and poison us. I'm like, what? I'm out.

I'm out. I'm out. How old are your kids? I just, my oldest just turned four last week, and then I have a two-year-old. Oh, my God. They're so little. I miss the little. Sloan is my four, and Ocean is my, I call him, because I always go sissy and bubba is when I call my two little kids.

But I call him Sissy because he doesn't understand why he can't be called Sissy, because that's what I call Sloan. So I have to, like, merge it. I'm like, Sissy boy. Oh, that's cute. It's so yummy. Is she Sloan after Ferris Bueller's? No. What?

No. I wanted to do that after Ferris Bueller's. No, not. But now that I think of it, I was like, oh, that should have... She was like aonic. Should have clocked that? Yeah. I think Entourage, I heard it first.

Oh, yeah. And then Macamore's daughter was also Sloan. And I just, like, love the name. It's so pretty. And my son's name's Ocean. So cool. And I... Yeah, I grew up on the beach in Cocoa Beach, Florida, and something about it.

The ocean is the most magical place for peace. Yes. And just like the whole concept of being grounded. And I just like, he needed it. He was, both my children were adopted in very like hard circumstances. You knew the circumstance. How did that work? Well, you get an option.

I did like a very high profile adoption agency from like my protection. And I just, it got really yucky for me. Like most people go after your typical like 16 year old who unplanned pregnancy, but very healthy, not on drugs. And I found out like black and brown children get mostly put into foster care because people don't want them especially from Florida. and most like statistically there's not many black and brown people who are adopting who choose to adopt like the extreme circumstances so my daughter's birth mom was homeless on a park bench and then my son ocean the birth mom didn't even know she was pregnant she started having like abdominal cramps. Like, I don't get it. I've never been pregnant. Yeah. She already had a kid too. So I don't know if it's like naive. She had a child that died and I don't know if it's like trauma. Shit. I mean, it very well could be. Yeah. Could be, you know. So he was born in a car at like 4 a.m. And she went to one

hospital and he was like half barely alive. Oh my God. So they wrapped him up and brought him to one of the most like prestigious child children's hospitals specialty hospitals and he was in the NICU for a few weeks and she was just like I can't do this and that was it wow and like they were going to like ship them to either like Florida or Arizona the chances of him being adopted are just so slim to none black child no prenatal care no health history you don't know who the birth father is it's just people who pay the kind of money that you do to adopt, like, that's not their first choice. And I was like, well, it's mine. It's mine. Yeah, exactly. That is. I mean, but the thing is. There's no guarantee. Yeah. Like, what are we even

fucking talking about? No. There's no guarantee. A lot of people that are so fucked up mentally, like everything and, you know. Like nothing. It's like, what am I going to do? Have this perfect ideal situation. Those don't exist. You could do everything right and still something go wrong. 100% of all. But also the way I look at it is, and that kid's still going to be alive. And someone's going to need to raise them. And so who better than someone with their wits about them? Yeah.

Right? It makes me want to leave and go get it. Like, I literally am like, give them to me. There's so many babies out there that just want a good home. We did 30 days in the NICU, and we were the only family that stayed there. and I was like, I don't understand why. And they're like, they can't. It's not that they don't want to.

It's that they gave birth. They've got to get back to work. They can't afford to have a parent here. And so there would be these babies that would be without any parents. And I'm like, give them all to me. Let me take them home. I know. Let me have them.

Like, the thought of that destroys me. Yeah. It's the reality. It's just like wait till now with all the fucking shit we're doing to women, not being, I mean, there's just going to be so many unplanned and unwanted pregnancies. Where the fuck are we going to put all these kids? Right. What do you, did you do any? I'm curious about this because growing up in a family with mental illness and addiction and all that fun stuff, it was very brave if my husband have children with me. Was there any research on your part that goes into having a kid coming from these different things? Like, is there a way you can get ahead of things? I don't. No, I didn't even think of it. I just, the way it made me feel was enough for me not to want to do like what they were trying to suggest.

Yeah. I just didn't like the way it felt. Yeah. And you had them since birth? Both of them. Yeah, right from birth. Wow. Wow.

So I was like, no, I'm good. That's really amazing. And I was like I was playing as an athlete. Like I couldn't afford to stop playing and stop making money. So adoption just seemed like the most ideal choice. So I adopted and I didn't take time off. I just kept playing. I didn't have to worry about my body.

I didn't have to worry about fuck, am I going to be the same coming back? Like I couldn't take those chances. Yeah. So that's, that's a real thing. I mean, as a professional athlete, you know, your body is like you're, you know. It's my, yeah, I mean, and I only get, it's not like a long career. I mean, you start aging out at like 35. Is that right? Yeah, I played till 37, but like, I was, that's fucking. That's up there. That's up there. I didn't feel great. That's for sure. Oh, man. How did that, like, how did that, obviously, it started by you playing, but how did it start where you, you? you knew, oh, this is professional, this is my life, this is something that I'm going to put in those.

I think I came from a really, like, low-income addiction, mental health, like, issued, you know, I just, like, I know, I had an option. It was either a statistic, I was going to be a statistic and I was going to be on the streets doing shit I shouldn't be doing, or I was going to do something with my life. I always say this, and maybe you agree, or maybe you don't. But when you come from places we have and watch the things we've watched in the inner workings of a home with a lot of shit going on, like you have a choice. You either become a part of that generational trauma or you go so fucking opposite of everything. And I went like so fucking opposite of everything. So I was like, no, I'm good. I was like out by 13.

But I think that saved your life. God, yeah. Because it also, but there's something in addicts that needs that kind of dopamine hit. It needs that focus. It needs something bigger than themselves. And that's what drugs and alcohol come in and become that bigger than the human. So I'm not like a big drinker. I'm not like, you know, a huge, I don't like take drugs.

I don't do anything that's like wild or crazy. It's just because I've already seen the most awful things, I think. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm good. I'm good. It's just like, because, yeah, sometimes when you are just exposed to it, it's enough to be like. I'm like, that's messy. I'm good.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's a miracle, though, because 90% of people don't make that choice. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I was just like, for me, no one in my family at that point had gone to college or graduated. And I was like, this is, you know, full ride. I can go live somewhere else. Someone, you know, manages me 24-7 and takes care of me.

And I love traveling. And I have the opportunity to go all over the place. And I just did it. Yeah. But you also had to be really good. Wow. You know what I mean? Like I could.

At the highest level, everyone's good. Right? It's like, it's not, everyone's like, what's the secret sauce? What's this? What's that? I literally just was, I committed to doing the shit everyone else wasn't willing to do. It's that simple. Like my brother was a phenomenal athlete and he was fucking lazy.

He had more, he could have gone incredible places, which I always say this when people say, potential, potential, potential just means you're not worth shit now. Like, you have to actually, you know. I like that. I apply that to me too. You have to. It's like, great, everyone has potential. Everybody does. You have to do the work.

Right. There's no, I mean, at the top, it's like a game of inches. Like, it's not everyone is good. Right. It's just who's willing to commit and do the shit other people aren't. So do you think that there's something like mentally different about those who can? I don't like to lose. Yeah.

And I won't. I win at all cost. And I think. I do think, and I talk about this a lot on my podcast, though. I have a lot of unlearning to do because of the way I operate as an athlete. How so? Elaborate, yeah, on that. I was conditioned to suffer.

You know, you think about athletes, it's like, what's a bullshit thing? Like, once you hit the brick wall, you got to run through it. No pain, no gain. You know, think about the shit that you're told as children. I mean, I was in college and we would run fitness tests. And I remember my coach screaming, you'll pass out before you die. Keep fucking running. But that is what your condition to do is be a machine.

And I think now as I am an adult who's raising children who was an elite competitor, not everyone moves the way I move. Like I am a firm believer in how you do anything is how you do everything. And the problem is, is I operate as an exceptional human. Like, everyday people have choices. Right. Like, you have a choice to be average. You have a choice to be exceptional.

And I have always, I always choose to be exceptional. So I don't, and this is going to sound so cocky and arrogant and probably a little rude. I don't fuck with mediocre people. But that's important. I just don't. I am an average. of the fucking five to seven people around me, I don't fuck with mediocre people

because I will innately inherit, inherit like their vibe and their work ethic and their energy. And I just choose to surround myself with very, very smart people that push me and hold me accountable. And I notice when I'm around people who are just very like,

and there's nothing wrong with that. I think we need average people to do the simple. mundane things in life. If you do it at an exceptional level and you choose to do that and you're kind and you're happy and it fulfills you, I don't give a fuck what you do. If you're mopping floors and you don't cut corners, you and I are no different. You are, that is just going to say, you can be extraordinary in that.

At a task that we need people to do. If you're a farmer and like you fucking are a clipping shit that's like precise and you do your work and you're not cutting corners and being lazy. and like I fuck with that. Yeah. But the second people are entitled and want more and aren't willing to do the work and are constantly finding a way out to cook.

I don't fuck with cutting corners. Right. I just don't. Like it's one of my things. I'm like, shit, I need to like. We get corners. The thing is is that you, no, I know.

You are the some of the five people you spend the most time with. So choose carefully. I want to be around scientists and smart people. No. Yeah. Because like, I want to walk in and be the fucking dumbest one in the room because that's where I'm going to be challenged the most.

And I think complacency is the death of all of us. I don't want to live life being complacent. I want to be hungry for more. I want to learn the most I possibly can. And I just don't, I think we're on borrowed time and I don't want to waste it. I hear you. Yeah. I, you know, I spend time with there's a friend. Have we started already? No. No. Get into it. I have a good friend who when I'm around her, her OCD is like very, I find myself, like, getting into it like an OCD pattern after like spending a lot of time with her. And I've noticed it as I've gotten older.

And I'm like, oh, this actually is influencing the way you move. Yeah. And I'm like, I don't like that. Well, I'm susceptible to it, obviously. We all are. We are. It's not you, by the way. I know.

I'm exceptional. I love it. Yeah, but it's just such a good point, you know. And then now, like, you're a mom, right? So you're raising these kids. Fuck, is it hard? Like, I just said this the other day. It's the hardest thing I've ever done, and I've done really hard things.

Yeah. I've heard you say something else was harder. So you talked about all your sports, obviously, that takes incredible. strength of mind, heart, spirit, body. But you said your divorce was the hardest thing that you had ever been through in your life. And when I heard that, to me, I'm like, that's beautiful. Because that means you hit your knees on something that you had never hit your knees on before. Is that still the case? I think it was definitely the hardest season of my life. And there was so much greed. and there was so much pain.

And like it's, you're having, because I'm such a feeler, and I'm so, I think it's very important to be vulnerable and share your scars. And I also think it's important to humanize grief and pain, especially for our children. I don't want to always show up and pretend I'm okay to my kids because I don't want them to. to do that to their friends, to their partners to me and their mom.

Yeah. And, you know, there are times where I can just cry. And then my four-year-old will be like, Mama, are you okay? Are you happy? Because we ask that a lot in our house. Like, we do check-ins, even at four. And I will explain to her that, like, sometimes mama gets sad and that's okay. And it's okay to be vulnerable.

And I just said, I always tell her when she has her tantrums, my first question when she's done is, do you need a hug? So she will ask me that, do you need a hug or I'll ask for a hug? Because I need to teach these young children about empathy and compassion. And there's no better way to set an example than for me to be vulnerable in front of them and explain to them that mama just had a really hard day. mama sad today and that's okay. Yeah. And it's not because you make me sad an experience or circumstance made mama sad. And this is the emotion that I have to release it. And then we hug and we love each other. And then we move on and then we'll check in again. Like, are you happy? Are you safe? Yeah, we're good. And we keep it pushing. But the divorce part, the hardest, the hardest thing for me clearly was the grief.

and the rebuilding process because it's a hard, brave decision to walk away from something that you expected to be one way, but it didn't turn out to be that way. I think so you're not only mourning the loss of what this looks like, because, you know, I don't have my kids full-time.

I'm 50-50 custody. And, you know, I never understood this, but my dad used to always cry when he left me in college. or I left for a soccer trip. And I was like, this sweet human was to my father was so vulnerable. So I always saw it. And he didn't hide it.

He would cry every time he said bye to me. I love that. And I do the same thing. It is so wild. I'm just like my father. I, every time I say bye to my children, and Sophia knows this, it's like I need to reset and I need a hug and I need to cry it out. And then I carry on. So I think there's a lot of grief and sadness that I had to unpack because I always thought my life would be one way.

And it didn't end up being that way. And I had to make some really hard, selfish, painful decisions that affected my family. And there's a lot of guilt that comes with that. because you wonder, you know, I hurt someone deeply in that process and how will it affect my children? And then you center and you think, do they want a mom six feet under who is unhappy and unwilling to live? Or do they want a mom who is brave enough to make a hard decision to make sure she's okay? And I have to, and I will have that conversation with my children eventually and let them know, like happy people don't leave happy marriages. They just don't.

Right. Like, you don't just like wake up all of a sudden one morning and say, well, this is the day. I'm over it. Like there is a process and there is a grieving component of thinking about this. But it's a very, very scary decision. And I don't think that grief ever really ends in a way. And I say this all the time. Like I love my ex-wife.

I fell in love with her for a reason. She is a wonderful person. It's just sometimes things don't work out. And that is okay. Yeah. And that is okay. Like we don't, we always have these ideas. And we're working so fucking hard to get to that place where, you know, we imagined this family and this white picket fence and all of these things.

It just never was like my reality. And I never felt at ease. And I felt like I was always working so hard to find that place of ease. And I guess I never got there. and I just kind of had to drop the rope. Right. And how the kids were really young when you guys. So do they even remember like you guys together?

Well, we, I think it's really important in my household because we are 50, 50 custody. I don't know what goes on in my ex-wife's household, but we are like pretty consistent. I know we are very good moms. I think it's really important to talk about her mom. and I think it's really important to speak very highly. I never want my kids to ever feel like they have to choose. Right. And I always want them to feel safe and open to be able to go to any place and not feel like they have to choose sides.

So I openly talk about their mommy and I talk about because sometimes like my daughter will be talking and be like, yeah, you know, my mommy and this and that. like I don't know her. And I'll say, sweetheart, you know I know your mommy. Oh, like you don't know her. She'll talk to me. She'll talk to me and she'll be like, well, at my mommy's house, like, we do this and we talk about this. And like, am I like pop patrol and blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, I don't know her mom.

Right. And then she'll be like, yeah, you know my mommy, Allie. Like I don't know her name. Yeah, better. You're like, yeah. So I like, sit her down. I'm like, honey, you know, you know, I know your mommy. Real well.

Real well. So I do think it's, you know, on the days we switch. At the beginning, it was really hard for her because when I would like leave or Allie would leave, you know, Ocean was too young. She would sometimes cry, but I think she was picking up the sadness from us because it was painful. Yeah. And it was hard. So now I get her really excited. Everything is about how cool is it that you get three birthday parties this week. One with mommy, one with mama and one at school. Like awesome. Yeah. So I'm like really trying to, you know, on Fridays we switch. So I'm always like, you get to go to Mommy's house today. You got all new toys. How cool is that? Yeah. So like I try to make it

fun and exciting. And then she gets really excited. She's like, cool. Okay, so mama's taking me to school, but mommy's picking me up. Awesome. See next week, Mom. But, like, that's the type of energy you have to commit to when you're raising, you know, your co-parenting. Yeah. That is so important. And growing up a product of divorce, I remember my parents used to speak really poorly about each other. And many years down the road, I was dealing with a lot of self-hatred, right? And not knowing where does this come from. And when I unpacked it, I realized the two people I loved the most, I was told there was something wrong with.

So I took both those parts and made them me, right? And I identified, there must be something wrong with me that the two people I love the most are wrong. And so it literally blew my mind. I thought, what an incredible opportunity parents have to do exactly what you're saying is to fill that tank with love for the other person, regardless of how you feel. It sounds like you guys have a good co-parenting relationship. But your job as a parent is to help facilitate wholenesses in a child.

Yeah. And when you're taking a fracture of who they are and putting it down, you are telling them there's something wrong with you for loving that person. And that's fucked. Yeah, it is. And I appreciate you saying that. I don't think, I wouldn't say we have a great relationship. I think we have a deep, deep, deep level of love and respect. Deep. Deep. Deep. Deep. Which is not there yet. But regardless, I think we will get there. I think we have a lot of scars and still a lot of pain and hurt. And I think air needs fire to breathe. So the distance and space as hard as it is because you lose your best friend in the process. Yeah. And that's a grieving.

Like you grieve the loss of a lot of things, but your best friend that you see every day is definitely one of them. but I don't think we're in this perfect place where, you know, I have a friend right now who's on with their very, very young son on both their co-parenting and they're on a ski trip altogether. Like, we ain't fucking there. Like, we ain't even close to that. Whenever I see that, I'm like, why did you divorce? Well, also, like, respect that you can do that. Yeah, no, it's great. And I mean, I'm like, well, we really don't know.

I'm sure if my ex-wife was sitting next to me, she would have both hands around my nap. So I highly doubt will be there anytime soon. But it's like, I'm being funny and I like, I adore her. I think all I want for my ex-wife is to be happy and she's in a new relationship that brings her a lot of joy. That's great. And when I know she's safe and happy and cared for, that makes me at ease because that's what I want for her. And I hope eventually that's what she wants for me. Miracles happen.

Miracles happen. Yeah, we'll see. I guess time will tell. Just not any time soon. Yeah, we don't know. We don't know. Hold the door open for miracles. It could happen.

It's definitely a grieving process. I will say this. When I am, I will not allow people to speak in my home or in my presence or around my children ill about my ex-wife

or our relationship. I will not allow my family like to pick sides, to have an opinion, I was very, very clear and almost in a very overwhelming way. When we first split, I spoke to my entire family and I put everyone in a group message. I was very, very clear that my personal life is my personal life. And you don't have to agree with things or you don't have to. to you can be mad and angry however you will support us as a family because that won't change right and um i will not allow you to chime in on any instagram anything that is liking

comments that may hurt her or her family you will be supportive you will keep liking and commenting like we're a family like there is no picking sides everyone is hurting in this process However, this is the mother of my children. I will not allow you to come into my space and say one fucking bad word about us as a collective. And I was very clear about that. And that matters to me how my family shows up in really dark moments. I don't know if I can necessarily say the same for the other side, but that's something they have to. I can't.

That's something they'll have to unpack. and then unfortunately my my ex-wife's father passed away and she let me know which I greatly appreciated and it was a really like sad and hard time because you don't have that connection anymore where you know someone's hurting really really bad and you can't take that pain away and I reached out to my family as a group and I said this is what happened this is what's going on, like, please reach out and make sure she's okay and make sure the kids are okay and they lost a grandparent. And I really, I have to set a good example because I think it's really important and they are an extension of me on how they show up and I need it to be in a way

that's respectful. I just will not allow friends, family, anyone to, it doesn't make me feel better No. By bashing or saying anything about my relationship or my ex-wife. So it's a very clear thing for me. I just won't allow people to talk about it. Yeah. And you're in a negative way. Because I also don't want my kids to hear that. Yeah. No. I mean, I think that's really, you know, setting everything up for them and the example. And it sounds like your family listened. I don't think they really have a choice. It's very clear for me. It's either going to be this way or you're just. It's not going to be around. Right. That's right. And then you got obviously a new relationship and I feel like that was in the press a bit.

Oh, a bit. Oh, oh, oh, a bit. I mean, a smidge. But like the timeline and whatever and like it was like, you know, people like questioning and whatnot. And I mean, look, I know what it's like to be in the press at times. Maybe people question things and sometimes it's not in like a positive. but I would say it's been very positive, like your relationship, which obviously we were talking before that I know Sophia and she's wonderful and so happy for you guys. Thank you.

But that transition, I'm sure, was challenging, just dealing with everything else that you've been talking about at the time and then navigating a new relationship. So a very, very, very, very public relationship. Yeah, which, I mean, I know before your marriage was as well, but obviously this like took on a whole name. Yeah. Totally. Yeah, it's a weird space to sit in to, yeah, I was unraveling and I was going through this process of, you know, being separated and living in a different home. And I, yeah, was out having a good time. Truthfully, yeah, I was definitely out having a good time. And not just not at the time it wasn't just Sophia. I thought she was a homie. She was a friend going. Yeah, I thought she was a friend going through a very similar experience. Weirdly enough, like I, like we were always so cool around each other, but it's like very

quick snips. And then she's off to another place and I'm off to another place. And I didn't really know that much about her. Like I just knew she was full of life very, very sweet. We had this energy about us that no matter. how much time passed when we around each other, there was this like sweet, care, gentle, like friend, friendship. And, you know, we ended up getting in this, like, group chat with a few of my friends,

a few of her friends. And then it was all of a sudden it turned into a divorced group chat with about five of us. And, yeah, we were, like, always just, like, laughing. It was lighthearted. We'd send each other memes. We would like a little bit flirtatious at times, I would say. But it was really just like a girl's group. Yeah.

We were having so much fun. Truthfully, I thought she was completely straight. Like I just like, she did. She probably did. Right? I was like, yeah, whatever. Like you're fun to like have this playful back and forth with. But like, you're the girl next door.

I'm going. Oops. Yeah. And then, yeah, I like started going out on dates. hanging out with a really great group of friends in New York and really getting a little more like into the gay scene there. And she came in for like something and we had this big group, little date. We all were hanging out.

And nothing like crazy or flirtatious or anything out of the norm. And then all of a sudden like she's, started coming back more to New York to work, which I think she did in the first place. I just never knew. And then one day she was like, hey, I'm in New York. She had gone off to something or some other country. She was like, let's like, let's go to dinner when I get back. And I was like, great. All this girls are always going out. And she was like, no, no, no, just like us. And I was like, that's balzy. She must be really sad. Oh. Oh. Yeah. I was like, oh, poor, poor girl. She's sad.

Poor girl. What's just a side girl? Fuck if I know. I don't know. And we went on this fucking sweet little date, you know, and God, it must have lasted four hours. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. And it was just very cute and innocent, but she was like holding my arm a little bit and touching my arm. And I was like, I was like, no, this is unlike you. And she kept like the date turned into like the whole night. We were just walking the streets of New York. It was so sweet. So fun. It was like a movie. It was like holding hands like.

And then I kind of looked at her and I just was like I thought because now I'm like, oh, oh, Sophia. Oh. I kind of was like I stopped and I was like, I thought you were. straight. Yeah. And she goes, I thought you were happy. Wow. And I was like, too shay. There. All right. So yeah, I think, I think she and I had an insanely sweet connection. Yeah. And I was in a really, really dark place. And she was like, I'll sit with you in the darkness because I feel more at ease and peace there than I ever have before trying to play this idea of a wife and a family and all these things that I'm told to be.

Like, I think we really found a type of connection people write stories about, right? And it's interesting because I was really, I don't think I, like, am, you. you know, I used to say this to my therapist. Like, am I trauma bonding? Like, you ask all these questions. And now that I'm on the other side of it, and I'm, you know, being a, I'm in an, I have an opportunity to interview some of the best people in the world. Like, I'm talking to therapist coaches and, you know, people that study the pursuit of happiness and all of these things. And I'm like, wow, if I wasn't open to receiving that.

kind of care and love, I would never be in the place I am today. So I'm so grateful that in my darkest season, I was open to receiving like life-changing care. That helped me see the potential of what I could be and how I could move. And also, it's the kind of love I always imagined that I did. didn't think I necessarily deserved. So it's a beautiful thing to like both experience that. And it's interesting with her, like when things happen and trauma happens, it puts you right back in your seven-year-old skin. And for some reason, I came to visit her in L.A. And I slept, I think, for the first three days, like 17 hours.

And I was like, what the fuck is going on? It's almost like my whole nervous system. Like it was a, it was like almost like a warm hug. I always said that to her this morning. I'm like, you're just like a warm hug. It's like the safety piece that no one talks about is I didn't have these chemicals pumping through my body in survival mode. It was like I could just take a deep breath and feel that I wasn't being performative or.

convincing someone to love me in the way I wanted and then not feeling too much or too little, I just was me and it was easy and it was safe and I was so present and so still, even in a dark, dark place. We found a profound comfort and ease with each other that I think was absolutely beautiful and it just the rest was history. Truthfully, after that, I was like, oh, this is what people talk about. Yeah. I mean, yeah, just the sleep part alone, and I can relate to that so much, is really the signal that like you're safe, you know, and the comfortability in that.

And it's a beautiful thing. And you're right. It's hard to connect on that level. And it is beautiful. And I think it's just so cool that looking that you were in this. dark place and then finding the light and seeing you now and and hearing all of this is just such an amazing message of like self-care self-love you know and finding that but you have to like go through who was saying that the other day oh you go through it to what is it what's it saying you can't walk

around it you have to walk through it yeah you're like you know the old thing that everyone knows yeah that's just went out of my head the thing is it's chicken or egg you know what I'm hearing in that story, I think the only reason you were available for that feeling was because you allowed yourself that grief and because you allowed yourself to shed that pain. And there was a calling, a pull inside of you to get out of the situation you were in. Right. And I think we all have those pulls at different points in our life. And we can ignore them. We can shape, shift, we can numb them, band-a-em, whatever. But when there's that pull and you finally listen to whatever that pull is,

usually there's a pain coming next and a shedding and a letting go of everything you've been holding, right, where you can finally reacclimate to who you actually are. And in that, then someone's like, hi, I see you. But at least for me, I was looking for people to see me my whole life, but it didn't happen until that, until that letting go and that deep, dark moment of grief that I was finally able to be like, oh, I'm actually ready to be seen. And so it's the person lines up at the right time. Right? You wouldn't, even if she came before that, it probably wouldn't happen. Yeah. No, absolutely not. I think timing and the way the universe works is something of magic.

And being, you know, it's that invisible string theory. It's really powerful. And I agree. I couldn't agree more. And I'm lucky that I was vulnerable enough to say and share my experience and how, hard it was. Because I do think when we're in our deepest, darkest seasons, lending a hand is helpful. And I think we were both able to do that together as she was going through the hardest season of her life and processing it, great loss and grief as well as I was. We were both willing to help each other through that process and be vulnerable enough to share like really some of the deepest darkest secrets we've never been able to share like the things we want and need in life and it's weird when you really meet the right person everyone always says you need to focus on you before you ever like walk into a relationship i am living proof i don't believe it anymore

I don't believe it. I don't fucking believe it. Thank you. I think we all have extreme, we all carry extreme scars and trauma. And when you know you found the right person who says, I won't use those scars against you, I'm going to help you and love you and repair them. We're going to do it together. And it is a work in progress. And that's when I was like, oh, this is a type of level I've never experienced before. It's I know my partner is highly sensitive and I know the ways to cater and love her through a lot of her scars and insecurities and I don't make her feel bad about them and I don't in moments where your ego arises. I don't minimize her feelings or her pain or her scars. It's just a really unique space to live. in, that is like, I really see you and I know you really see me and we're willing to acknowledge our trauma and scars and help each other through it. And it's a really beautiful thing when you get to that point in your life where you're like, wow, I get it now. Yeah. And I think if I was

shut off from that and I was healing and working on myself, I would be 95 years old and alone. Because I don't think we ever stop. I think it's a journey of unraveling and processing. It'll be forever. Yeah. I think you can heal as much as you can on your own, and then you're going to bump your shit up against someone else, and all that stuff's going to be activated again.

Yeah. Because you can do as much as you can, but then when you're in partnership, they're going to show you pieces that you didn't see and that you don't actually have the purpose. perception to see alone. And so it's actually helpful. And one of the things you were saying about being able to be there for each other, well, two things. One, I love your message about sharing your insecurities and vulnerabilities. I think a lot of the messaging in life has been hide that shit.

You know, you're strong, you're confident, there's nobody like you, all that great stuff. We're human. We all have wounds, insecurities. When you can go to another human being and be like, here's mine. And they go, I see that and I love you. And I'm going to help you with that. I'm going to help you not buy into that, right? Versus I'm going to pretend to be something I'm not. That's when there's divorce.

That's when there's abuse. All of those things because nobody's being honest in the room. And it's so damaging for our children to think we're supposed to be without insecurities or pains. It's exactly like what you were saying about teaching your children. It's like don't gaslight them. Don't make them think you're okay when you're not because you're teaching them not to trust their own intuition. And don't do it to your partner. Don't pretend that you don't have these things going on.

Hand them to them and see if they're capable of holding them, right? And another thing you said was the unique situation of what you guys went through, having both gone through these painful divorces. You know, I'm in a program where for addiction, the magic is one alcoholic talking to another, there is a medicine in it. Nobody can understand each other like someone who's been there. Even, you know, like I have a kid with special needs. people without kids with special needs can tell me all day things they think and inside I'm like you don't fucking get it. Yeah. Until someone's like, I have this and here's what helps and then you're like, oh, they get it.

Yeah. What you guys did was actual medicine. That is the medicine. Is two human beings sitting together and sharing pain with one hand extended one way and one the other. that's medicine. Yeah. But you can't do that alone. One more thing I heard in what you said is, you know, looking at your day through a different filter.

My sponsor always says, my life is a series of I get to. I get to take the kids to school. Not I have to go take the kids to school. I have to make their lunches. I have to go to work. I have to do this. I have to meet this person. When you look at your life like that, that's.

draining. That's overwhelming. But if you, that tiny shift of like, oh, I get to drop them off and then I get to go to work and then I get to like, you might not want to say it out loud because people are going to get really annoyed with you, but you can think it inside. No, it's, it's a bunch of I get to. But also it's a practice. Everyone thinks joy and happiness comes easy to all of us. It doesn't. It is practicing gratitude. It is teaching your body and your mind to do exactly what you said. Like, I, it's so interesting when I was an athlete, I would do anything to get the edge, anything. If it's, you know, taking vitamins.

I took every fucking vitamin possible. Because if it gave me a 1% advantage over someone else, I was willing to do it. My therapist says this all the time. You did breathing exercises all the time. to have mental clarity. Like when you have to make a very, very important decision, especially in my position, the more you're,

because of pressure and anxiety, the more your breathing starts to get altered, your decision making does. So it was such a practice art of mine that I had to be so still and so centered based on breathing, so I didn't make an erratic decision that affected everyone else. And my therapist is listening to me

and it was like, you did all this as an athlete? I said, yeah, because I wanted the edge. I wanted the air is thin at the top. I wanted to stay there. They go, well, why don't you do that practice in your everyday life? Well, great fucking question, because I don't. You're like, put them on the field. Yeah, the second I stopped playing, I didn't, life is harder than my sport. Why do I pour so much into that and not into my life? So now I'm going to swing it. I love that. And it's really, you know, like, They say as an athlete, you better have short-term memory because we all make mistakes and how quickly you bounce back from it. Think about it.

Like, I fuck up. I have to like recover quickly. And if I carry that with me, I'm going to be a nightmare the whole game. Play in your position. I don't know. Yeah. So I was very, very, like my mental side, like a lot of what we do as athletes is 90% mental. So like I really invested in it.

but then when I became a normal, I call myself like a normal citizen, yeah, like operating as a normal human, which is far out. Like I, why am I stopping all those practices that helped me? Like self-talk was a really big one. Like really, like I would sit and visualize success and I really think what you put out into the world is what you receive. So like say great things that you want to happen. And I did that as an athlete, but then I don't do it in my personal life in the real world. I'm like, now I'm trying to take those lessons and really sprinkle them in to my everyday existence because they set me up for success. Do you think it's because there was a carrot?

Like do you think you need to place the carrot there? Because I find that like if I really want something, right, even if it's simple. is a house. The visualization starts, the turning it over, the this or something higher for the manifest state, all the stuff happens, right? And then you get the house. And then whatever it is, it's next. You're like, okay, I place the thing here that I'm after. So then I have the focus to do all the things it takes to get it. But when you don't have that metaphorical carrot, what are you doing it for? So do you feel like it's important to place the carrot there every day? Does that make sense?

Yeah, I do. I absolutely know exactly what you're talking about. And that's why short-term goals are just as important as long-term goals. So it's not just about the big house and winning the powerball and winning the lottery and making life easier. It's some days, like, and I said this when I was on a panel at the wellness oasis with, Deepak about we were talking about joy and sometimes waking up is enough it's a small short-term goal sometimes putting one foot in front of the other is enough so it's like it doesn't have to be this big thing that's not always like tangible or reachable it's all the small things like sometimes

there's so much more beauty in the small than there is once you reach the big so I think you have to reframe constantly the way we see things. Like today my like I woke up and I set an intention and I did it and that is success. Big time. And it'll be more success if I do it tomorrow and I do it the next day and I make it a habit. And it's like those little habits and those little goals and those little moments will bring me more joy than the big fucking job I want to land and the big house I want to get. And I think we get so caught up in those that we forget that the real sauce is in the little moments that we don't prioritize.

So I really try to think and see life that way because that's what I did as an athlete. I set short-term goals. Like I don't just, you know, I want to have. have a vertical, that's 35 inches. Like, you don't just say it and then all of a sudden it happens. It's like, okay, what active things are we going to do to make sure we make it a reality? Well, it starts in my decision making, my training, am I doing the right things? And am I eating? Am I sleeping? Like, there's so many components. It's such a beautiful, the sports and what you've been through, such a beautiful teaching opportunity for life, because there is no difference.

at all. And like your podcast, tell us about it because wide open, obviously, sports reference. Yes. And sports reference. Or, I mean. Yeah. Or Rachel reference. Hey.

Hey. My heart. Her heart. It's true. I think we all have a gift. Yes. I think we are lucky enough to have a gift, a gift, a platform, a follow, whatever you want to call it.

And like what we choose to do with it matters. Like I had a gift to see people and meet them where they're at. And a lot of people say this like, God, do you just have a lot of wisdom? I do, but I have lived a long, hard life to be able to talk about these things. Like we just said it. Like when people have walked the walk and experienced the things, we have, you can really speak on it in a level that's not a, this is what I learned, not really what I went through. Okay, well, that's fucking, if you don't know the pain or the places I've

walked, it's hard to meet you where you're at. That's right. So I have always been a believer in living life through storytelling. And I think people need other people. I think we live in a really, really hard isolating world, especially in the queer community. A lot of us are heavily isolated. A lot of us carry a ton of fucking shame because, you know, this is what culture does to us. I mean, look what our policies are doing to our children right now. I mean, we're in a really, really bad mental health crisis based on people being so fearful just to be themselves. And I, I, had this incredible gift that I myself experienced a lot of pain and mental health issues and addiction and all these things that a lot of people in my community experience. So after games,

it was such a beautiful moment for me to connect with the fans. Like I would sign all till the fucking lights went out until security was like, you need to leave and my legs were cramping. and in five minutes or five seconds people would just be like god you just really saved my life by sharing your own stories and your own struggles and your own pain and I was like what a gift to really connect and see people and meet them where they're at and make them feel special yeah and it's really just a quick moment of being present and looking in someone's eyes and connecting and being like I see you I got you yeah like you're not in this alone like we all have stories of pain and struggle.

So after all of the things that has happened in the last two years with my personal life, it would be a disservice not to be able to share about it, not to be able to respectfully talk about the pain and struggle that I was unwilling to share in my marriage, to my family, and to my fans. Because I don't know if everyone knows this. It's the internet is not always what you see. Like people aren't always, you know, people can post the happiest highlight reels and be the saddest internally.

Yeah. And I was one of them. And I decided, you know, I really want to do this show. But I don't want it to be about sports. I don't, I'm so much more than what I did. Of course. I have so much more to give. than a silly little soccer game.

And now I'm able to help people unpack and unravel what made them so great. So wide open, clearly in sports, it's like seizing that moment, separating yourself from the pack, like executing. But also wide open is like, okay, I'm gonna be vulnerable enough to share my scars. I learned so much more from my failures

than I did for my success. So why am I just gonna share the highlight reel? I wanna share the, deepest, darkest, fucking painful moments that either make people or break people. And there is a reason why the few, the elite, the one percenters live at the top. They have experienced a great deal of failure and pain. And what a beautiful lesson to share and say, I've been there. I get it.

I'm with you. Absolutely. So, yeah, wide open with Ashley Harris is my new podcast. And it's unfiltered. unhinged. Love it. It's beautiful. I love it. It's real. It's raw. To me, I'm like, if I'm going to spend an hour of my time, I want to learn something. Storytelling. Like the storytelling's there. The emotions are there. Everything, you have everything it takes to teach people. And to me, that is a powerful gift you've been given. And it makes me so happy to see you take it. You take it. You

the baton. And being like, I know what to do now. Like, that's a gift and you're showing up for it. And all of the things you've done to me, the most profound thing about you is that you are on purpose. Thank you. In everything you've explained here. It's on purpose. I appreciate that. Yeah. She's really good. It's very sweet. I received that. Thank you. So you're really good at articulating all the things. And I just agree with everything. She says it better. Oh, yeah. That's not true.

No, I think it's, I'm happy to be here. I'm happy to have these conversations. And like, I think some people have a unique gift to that they always say you'll never meet a stranger. I just don't meet strangers. I always feel like I sit here for a reason and it's a choice. I don't have to do this. I want to do this. Yep.

And I'm lucky enough to do this. And I'm grateful for it. to have a platform to spread joy and love and also show the other side of being wide open and the pain that has come with being able to sit in a room like this. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it, right? Kevin.

I love it. Yeah, you're amazing. Thank you so much for being wide open with us. Thank you. Of course. And you guys are going to have. to come on my podcast now. For sure. I'm going to really have to dig into the early bots. Oh yeah. Y'all's Day. Man, maybe me, you and Sophia.

Sit down. Let's talk about the old school days. So much. I tell you what, the funny part is. So, you know, I was an athlete. I love y'all to death, but I never watch any of these shows. Yeah. I was like, I had one TV at home and I had my dad and my brother. So I was watching the Goonies. I was watching Power Rangers. I was watching God knows Jerry Springer. I just didn't get to do all the type of shows everyone else did. And I, you know, Sophia has a podcast where she watches old. Yeah. Oh yeah. The rewatch. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes I have to like sit and I can't stop moving. I'm cringing. I'm like, what the fuck? Where y'all watch? This is awful. You're kissing every boy on screen.

They're passing you around. You're in a mini fucking skirt. You're taking diet pills. What the fuck? Oh my God. I love it. It's just so wild. I'm like, no wonder all you all you all are fucked up.

Yeah. Jesus Christ. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And hers was like 10 years long. Yeah, the storylines. I'm like, would they just pass you fucking around? This is awful.

Awful. That's amazing, though, to see, like, now and like seeing all that. It's very. hilarious. She just sits there and I'm like, oh, I can't. Oh, God. Jesus. It's so good. It's so funny. So now I have to go back and we need to like really unpack all the old. Oh yeah. So much there. We'll do it. We'll come on. Yeah. And he's done. Done for having me. Yeah. Thanks for being here. This was outstanding. Yes. Thank you. It's too much fun. I really, I'm loving this. Yeah. I'm glad.

It really feels like that. I feel powerful. I know. It's great. It's so good. I really feel like we're in our natural state. So Rachel and I have a natural state. And what are our names?

Stattler and Waldorf. Yes. That's it. It is legit. We've been Stattler and Wardle. Waldorf. Who? Song Diago.

We've been those guys since day one with each other. A hundred percent. Yeah. Do you see it? Yeah, totally. Okay. If you want to take on a Muppet, which are you? Oh, man.

I don't know. Who do you think? I'd have to look at a list. Oh, you don't know him well enough? No. He's a little younger. It wasn't like a Muppet. It wasn't like a Muppet.

It wasn't like a Muppet. It wasn't like Jen Muppet. No. Okay. I feel like I'm giving Fawsey bear. Oh, yeah. That's a vibe. You know, it's a vibe.

Yeah. Yeah, that feels so right. It feels actually 100%. A little Fossey, a little Miss Piggy. I don't, I'm not feeling the Miss Piggy as hard as the Fosy. Maybe a set of pearls would do it. Yeah, that would help. That would help.

I know. We should watch a Muppets Christmas or something. So good. A Muppet Christmas Carol is my favorite. My kids aren't into it, though. Briars never watched it. Why? I don't know.

They just don't want to. I don't think she's super motivated. We did try Muppets Take Manhattan, though, and I think we got through most of it. I mean, Shepard, my son, is animal. He is animal. He actually, 100%. Yeah. Like, there's no difference, not one.

Does Animal play the drums, too? Yes. I guess I'm animal then. Do you play the drums? I do, yeah. You play the drums? I have for 20-ish years now. Oh, wow.

Yeah. Like, what kind of songs do you like to play? I played in a rock band, which was a lot of fun. He's like, I'm in Coldplay. Yeah, I know. Have you heard of you, too? Yeah. No, it was really fun.

It was a fun part of, I played in, like, drumline in grade school through college. Oh, my gosh. Yep. And then I played in a few bands out here. We would play, like, bars and, like, how's part of? and stuff, and it was such a fun part of. Drumline is a flex. It is?

Yeah. I think so. It was a lot of fun. What's a drum line, guys? You never saw Nick Cannon's movie drumline? This is your Muppets. No. This is my Muppets.

What's a drum line? In the marching band. Like the drums. That's what I thought. Yeah, yeah. But I didn't know if I was like missing something. She's like, why is that a flex? Yeah, because I'm like trying to pick up on the part that's a flex about that.

There's like typically three different. parts of the drumline. The snare drums, the tenor drums, which is like the four, and then the bass drums. When I was in college, there's typically like five bass drums, and four of the five of us all went to high school together. Oh my gosh. And so we had like this very specific niche group of friends. It was really cool. It was a very fun part of my like 20s and stuff. And like a very easy way to make friends. Oh, I thought you were going to see to get girls. The opposite, probably. Okay.

That is so sweet. Yeah. That is. We've been talking a little bit about, well, there's a couple things we thought we could talk about. Great. I also want to talk about how cool Ashland is. Well, that's the most important thing. Yes, yes, yeah.

That's number one. That's pretty obvious, right? Yes. I mean, honestly, going into it, I felt like intimidated because she's a badass. Yes. Yeah. Could not have been more, like, she was so warm. Yeah.

And amazing and so sweet and just came with it. And I really appreciated that. It actually gave me a lot of motivation. Yes. Because I was like, where am I cutting corners? Where am I being lazy? Where am I being mediocre? And what would be the little thing that I can do today to be a little bit more on purpose and push the needle a little further than I would have before that conversation? Yeah. Yeah. thing, there's a lot of things I really liked about her. One of the things that really

stuck with me is keep, like what really resonated with me was a small group of friends that you're really close with has always been a thing that, um, like if someone's being mean to like me or another friend, I'm very quick to just be like, you know what? I think I'm done with this friendship. Maybe to a fault where I'll drop it too quickly. But I really appreciated that she was just like, hey, if you're not cool with me and my family, like, we're done. We don't, there's no, like, negotiating or trying to, maybe we'll try to figure something out. But, um, when Lee and I got married in March, one of our close friends officiated the wedding and a joke he made about me was, um, if there's one thing we know about Kevin, it's that the dude loves a boundary. And so I'm

very clear with people of like, uh, with, I don't know, just like activities and stuff. Like, if I'm like, I don't want to do that. Yeah. So if you want to, You can, but I would rather do this instead. And so I just feel like she was very similar. Yeah. Of like, here's what I fuck with. Here's what I don't fuck. Right.

Yeah. And I was like, oh, I love watching other people. Kind of have a similar, like here's where I draw the line. Wow. So you're super boundary. That's good. We need a lot more of that in our lives. Right?

Wait, why are you not agreeing with that? But how do you mean? No, but even how she said, like, it made us think, and we talked a lot about it about, like, mediocre people or, like, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It makes you really look at who you're surrounding yourself with. Totally. And the whole level up thing and everything else, it's like... Do they sit behind a desk like this?

I don't know. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. But it is true. Like, all relationships change, too, and evolve or whatever. And, like, a lot of people, like, you'll grow one way. And then it's just, it's kind of that same mentality of, like... Yeah.

Being surrounded by people that either inspire you, motivate you, you respect. Totally. All of it. And it can be tricky. Like, Lee and I have some friends that are going through a tricky thing with, like, their parents where they're struggling to have, like, kind of confrontational conversations with their parents of, like, you can do this, you can't do this.

And then just watching. Oh, like, with the way they treat their children or. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And just like watching Ashland and just kind of sit down and. be like, like one thing that you said specifically, you were like, it's really nice that you give your family these options. She was like, it's not an option. Yeah. Oh, yeah. She was like,

it just, this is the rule. And I was like, that's really cool. Yeah. So I don't know, sometimes I appreciated the like, it's, things can be more black or white if you want them to be. Totally. And if you feel like you're not being respected, it can be like, hey, it's this or we're not hanging out, you know. Totally. It was pretty cool. I do have a question on that because what you said about your friends having, like, whatever, if it's issues or conversations with their parents on what they're doing with their children, what are your thoughts on? You might have a very specific way of being a parent, right?

Like, this is how we parent in my house. What about when you go to someone else's house or you're around other families or other parents, do you allow them to, you? go with what the house rules are for wherever you go? Oh, interesting. Keep your rules. Because I've been faced with that before where I'm like, that's not how I would have done it with my kids. Let me tell you the conversation I have with Breyer will be everybody has different rules.

Every house has different, whatever. I'm like, but this is how we do it. You know what I mean? So like she knows what our rules or whatever are. So like even if it's something else, a house. Now, if you're talking about, can they eat, you know, whatever, like sugar. I mean, that's like, yes, of course. Like, you go with the flow. But as far as... As far as, like, communication or even like... Give an example. An example of, let's say you're at someone's house

and they call the parents by Mr. and Mrs. Oh. Right? And it's more strict boundaries. You don't get up. Like, our house, you can walk around and eat. We're not precious. about any of our furniture. You can eat on the furniture. You can eat upside down on the furniture. You can do whatever you want pretty much when it comes to that. But then you go to other people's house and it's a little bit more formal. You got to teach your kid to read the room.

Exactly. Yeah. For sure. So what if it's something, though, as far as like grandpa is really political and they don't agree with what you're doing as a parent and they think it's like highly, emotional or any of that. Do you let them teach your kids? What? No, I get what you're saying. You get what I'm saying. No, but in what circumstance would they be, you know, like, does that happen? Well, I've definitely seen it. Of people coming in and being like, hey, kid, you should do this,

you shouldn't do this. Yeah, like no shoes on the thing or know this or know that. The child getting like kind of mixed messages of like, well, I'm not allowed to do that with my parents, Grandpa's telling me I can. Right. Oh, you're talking about your family or anybody's family. I'm just picturing this kid at someone else's house and their grandpa is talking to him. I'm so confused. I'm just saying, like, I've been in that situation where people parent very different.

Yes. And I tend to go with however the style of the people's homework is like, that's what goes here. Right. Like, you say yes, please, thank you. wash your hands, sit down, you don't move while you're eating. Sure. Do you have friends like that? Yeah.

Yeah. I guess it depends on like what the situation is. I feel like there's probably like some blanket ones of like as long as you're being respectful and not, you know, being mean to any of the other kids or family or whatever, then it's fine. But I don't know. I like your mental, the approach of like kind of going with the flow. a little bit. I'd like to think that whoever in this scenario wouldn't be like, I'm so confused, but maybe the mixed messages can make it super complicated. Well, even like the way that the coaches coach my kid, I think it's amazing. And I'm like, wow, I don't have that sort of discipline with

my own children. But I can tell their life. like a little throne because they're not used to that kind of get in. Like, they're not used to that. So I'm not like over there being like, well, you just have to do what he's like. I'm like, good. Can you come over? Yeah. I need that.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. But what about when there's, let's say, a coach who's just a complete asshole and like yelling at the kids, are you down? So I've never had that. Our coaches are dream boats. Like literal. They're incredible.

There was an umpire. They got really gnarly. Narnly. My brother was like, I almost pulled the kids out. He was drunk with power. He said that he was like, you're out. He was like going ham on these little kids. And my brother was like, dude, he's like, I've never seen anything like that in my life.

Did David, like, get up and try to say something to him? Some of the parents fought with him. And they were like, you're being too harsh. And he's like, you're hurt. Yeah. It's embarrassing. It's crazy. Yeah.

Speaking of drumline, my, there is a, there is a, the coaches in drumline, they're called a tech, like a technician. And so our drum tech in high school was straight out of the military. Oh, my God. And was way, way, way to intense, but intense with a bunch of like 14 to 17 year olds. Yeah. And so when we would mess up, he would throw our. drumsticks and be like, go get it. And he would take our drumsticks out of our hand and whip it, you know, across the field and stuff. We'd have to take our drums off. Go run 30 yards

to get our sticks, come back. And I told my parents about this eventually, like, and then he makes he takes our drumsticks and, like, throws it like, we're a dog and we have to go chase it. And my dad went interesting. And I was like, okay, I didn't really think anything of it. And then the next day, my dad showed up. Oh, no. And then was like, uh, which one's? your guy? And I was like, oh, over there. And then he kind of like waved, waved him over. And then he went, don't fucking throw the drumsticks. Is your dad a big dude? No. He has a big energy, though. He's a very intimidating guy.

Yeah. How did he react? Drumline tech. I think he apologized and was like, okay. You know, haven't gotten that feedback before. But, and I think one of the other guys. Can I offer you some feedback? A nugget. One of the other guys who was like the band, one of the main band guys, I think, came over too and was like, what's going on? It's like, just throwing the drumsticks like the kids are dogs. And then just like fully, like going back to boundary.

Just he was like, we're not doing that. Wow. So, I don't know. You had a really good model. Yeah, but it's also interesting perspective, right? Like when I was a kid, this might sound a little unhinged, but I remember we got in trouble once. and it was our stepdad, who we weren't really close with. This might go dark.

Always. We made a mess. Yeah. Right? And so then he put our... Your stepdad? I had a stepdad. Yeah.

Sorry. Huge reveal. Okay, go on. He put our food in bowls and put it on the ground and said that you have to eat off of the floor. Crazy. Like dogs. Yeah, this is abuse. Okay.

I thought it was funny. Yeah. Right? My sister took it as abuse. Yep. Like, she was like, I remember that was like something that really scarred her. How old were you? How old were you?

You already? How old were you? I don't know. It was like five or six. Yeah. To me, it wasn't. But that's what I'm saying. I'm like, everything is perspective.

You have two people in the same thing where they're throwing the sticks and someone else is like, I'm going to be a dog and I'm going to go chase it. And the other one's like, I don't like the way that feels. For sure. And it's wild that you can have wildly different experiences. It didn't scar me at all. I thought it was funny. I was like, oh, we ate up.

Yeah, yeah. I would tell people and everyone would be like, um, that's a little weird, but, you know. No, the, the, the, the. I'm going to be serving her lunch on the floor. And I'm going to be looking for my tail. It is interesting how, like. You're like, that is wild. feeling like, what the fuck?

That is a crazy story. But to your point, like... It doesn't feel crazy. And I know everything about her, and I'm like, wait, what? Yeah. Yeah. It is wild how, like, one person's POV can just fully change. Yeah.

I'm scared. I have an example that I cannot talk about here. Oh. I read this book a couple years ago called Spilled Milk, and it was a similar thing where dealing with bad, very bad parents and then they went to a friend's place and then made a similar like spilling milk mistake and then screamed and apologized and stuff and the parents were like, whoa, whoa, like it's fine.

Why are you acting this way? Oh, wow. And it became very then clear like something's going on with this kid. And that's to your point, all it took was one other person to go like, oh, that's not normal. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I've had a lot of those moments. Yeah.

Where someone's like, wait, that's not normal. And I'm like, oh. So many. Yeah. Okay. You could write a book. So thank you for tuning in. Oh, she does this.

Yeah, I wrap it up. We're done. Check out Ashland's podcast wide open. And check out Rachel's. Okay, okay. Heart. Check out my heart. Thank you.

You're welcome. See you next time. On the. broad ideas. That was a HeadGum podcast.