Broad Ideas with Rachel Bilson & Olivia Allen - Pleasure

Episode Date: June 1, 2022

Each month, Rachel and Olivia will release a bonus episode surrounding a specific (and juicy) topic, and they are starting off hot and heavy with the first topic of … Pleasure! During the conversation, they’ll cover their first orgasms, hate sex, masturbation and sex toys, their thoughts on paying for pleasure, and everything in between! Enjoy this conversation.pleasurableSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hax is back for its fifth and final season, and so is The Hacks podcast. Join the Hacks creators and showrunners, Lucia and Yellow, Paul W. Downs, and Jen Statsky as they unpack the Emmy-winning comedy series. On each episode, hear stories from the set, what goes on in the writer's room, and how these beloved characters close out their final season. Watch Hax streaming exclusively on HBO Max and listen to The Hacks podcast on HBO Max, or wherever you get your podcasts. Sometimes when those sake inside of Rachel's little brain,

all these thoughts are swirling round and round inside to join us on this journey as we take a little ride. We'll talk about dogs and kids and things. We'll talk about chicks and tampon strings. We'll talk about boys. Because people die. Hello. Welcome to broad ideas. So, Olivia.

Yes, Rachel. We just want to let everybody know that once a month, we are going to cover varied topics. So today, we kind of have an interesting one, which I think can go a lot of places. Yeah, but it's going to lead to pleasure. In fact, it is pleasure. That's the topic. That's the topic. So Olivia and I, we talk a lot.

All the time. that's all we do is all the talking. We do all the talking. And, you know, we don't get to be together a lot. So I always hear these stories. Right. And I always tell these stories. Very well. We do this every morning. We actually try to catch each other school drop-offs, school pickups. Okay. So the other night, Olivia went to one of our oldest friend's birthday party. Yep. So of course we had to recap the party, right? How was it? Who was there? Yada yada. Yes. And Olivia didn't really say. like how people were doing. No. She kind of went straight to it. Straight to the G spot, we'll call it. Yeah. Do you want to go

straight to it right now? I mean, okay, well, let's just talk about this a little bit, right? Backstory. So backstory. When you bring up pleasure. Yes. Well, what is your first thought when you hear the word pleasure? So I think that what my first thought of pleasure is is going to be different than a lot of people. Sure. When I think of pleasure, honestly, I think of food. That's what I think of. That is my pleasure. Not to say I don't have a lot of other pleasures in life, but one of my big heavy-hitter is food. I would say food is your love language if we wanted to go there. What do you think of when you hear pleasure? When I hear pleasure, I think of sleep. Yes. See, this is mom porn. This is what this is. Yeah, basically that's what we're doing.

So when you become a mom, pleasure looks a lot different. It feels a lot different. It feels a lot different. And you get a lot of pleasure. from your kids and all that. But today we're bringing up pleasure because it's a word, I think a lot of people connect to it in a sexual way. I think that should be everybody's first thought when they hear the word pleasure. I know. Physical pleasure. Let's do it. Okay. Do you remember the first time you experienced physical pleasure in a sexual way? Oh, fuck. Yeah. Oh. I'm going there. I did not think you were going to do that. Okay. The I do remember. Okay.

I have a clear cut memory. Yeah. Of my first orgasm. Wow. I do. I remember I was at our friend Eric Randolph's house. He didn't give it to me, don't. I was 15 years old and my boyfriend was there.

I was young. Yeah. 15 years old. For sure. And I was with my first boyfriend, Ollie. Uh-huh. And we slept on Eric's floor. And we were messing around and I remember something happened to me that he didn't do.

It was almost like his hand like touched my thigh and something happened. And I was like, no one warned me. No one told me like, this is what an orgasm is going to feel like. Right. This is what your body will experience. This is what your breed, like none of that. And I remember feeling like embarrassed. And almost like I had to hide it from him because.

because he didn't really do anything to provoke it. Are you saying he touched your thigh in your orgasm? Yeah. Wow. That's the only time that's ever happened. Yeah, I mean, that's pretty extreme, I would think. Or maybe there are people that experience it that way. I just never been my experience.

Yeah. And so I called my sister and I was like, something happened to me where I was experiencing this feeling. It almost was like an opening and closing. She was like, you had an orgasm. And I was like, but I didn't do anything. Like, I didn't have sex or. And she was like, well,

What you're explaining to me is an orgasm. And did you tell Ollie your boyfriend at the time about it ever? No, I don't, I mean, if he's listening right now. Hey, Ollie, nice work. Ali. Hands of a genius right there. He does. He's an incredible musician.

So I don't know if it had something to do. Do you remember that one time we were at a show and we watched this one dude play the guitar with his fingers? Yes. And we all were like, I want those fingers inside me. Yes. Who was that? I don't remember.

I feel like it might have been rock. Code to Luca. I think that's exactly who that is. We were like, that needs to happen to me. That needs to, whatever's happening on that guitar needs to happen to my vagina. It's like basically what was happening. That's exactly the truth. So hands of a musician, know how to do the work.

Yeah. And I'm not going to get too far into it because I'm married now. And hands of a doctor are even more powerful than a fucking musician. Oh, shit. Nice work, Jeff. Yes. When was your first? time experiencing pleasure. Well, I'm going to talk about like an actual orgasm because it's kind of

funny and it's actually interesting because I think a lot of people can relate to this or at least in my experience speaking with other women. You know, you have to be very comfortable or relaxed or whatever it is. And I tend to be in my head a lot. So for me, all these people are like, yeah, I've had an orgasm and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, I don't, I don't know what the fuck, you know, they're talking about. So as dating this guy. Oh, I know, Olivia, we're not allowed to say who it is. Okay. And I was probably 20. I've got a list of people in my head just running fucking wild. Okay. So I was probably like 20 and I actually like hated this person. Oh, okay. I know who it is. Like the most annoying person. But anyway, so I'm like 20 and he's touching me, right? Oh no. I know it's gross.

To even think about, okay, it's not a pretty picture. But whatever. He's touching me. And, And I'm like, all right, I got to like let this happen. I have to see if it's even possible. Because at this point I'm convinced I can't have an orgasm. And he's touching me and it goes on. I want to say it took like maybe two hours. What an actual? It didn't actually, but it felt that way.

Because you were also repelled at the same time. Yeah. It's a very confusing feeling and emotion. Like, I hate this person. You are disgusting. But, you know, let's make this happen. So after a very long time, it finally did. And I came to realize because I didn't give a fuck.

Like, I could not stand this person. I was like, all right, go for it. Like, you know, take your time. I wasn't worried or concerned that I was inconveniencing him. Totally. That's a big thing for me. Like, inconveniencing anyone. Like, when I'm working on a show, I'm always thinking about the crew.

Like, I got to get this scene because they need to go home. You know what I mean? So anyway, that's like a habit of mind, not ever wanting to inconvenience anyone. That's really insightful. Yeah. You were like holding your orgasm back as to not make anyone have to work harder than they. Had to. Wow.

I didn't want to inconvenience anyone. This person, totally fine inconveniencing. I kind of get that. Right? Yeah, because you weren't in your head. I was not in my head. I didn't care. Hmm.

Interesting. So then did you continue to do that with this person? Well, like did you then find your, because I believe women find their orgasm. No, I didn't find my orgasm until I was. was much older. That's a different thing. But someone else touching you, creating it, whatever, you know. Right. Okay. So that happens. Now, I don't really remember much after that. And I can't imagine it lasted much longer with this person. Human. Human. Ish. Ish. Do you think that set you up for a pattern? I'm serious. What kind of pattern are you referring to? Like, I don't want to say hate fucking

because that sounds a little extra. Have you hate fuck? I dated a guy I really didn't like. I think I hated him. So when I first got sober, I wasn't smoking, I wasn't drinking, I needed to just like have sex. And so I dated this guy. He was like a human cigarette. Okay.

But I didn't like him. But I continued to do it. Right? So what I'm saying is this. Do you think it set up a pattern for you? where there was a connection between pleasure, orgasm, freedom, not being self-conscious, and sex. You know what I think it did do? It set up a detachment for me where I could just have sex or whatever it is and be completely detached. Well, what happens when you're attached? Well, it's totally

different. You know, I'm talking, this is like a 20-year gap here, right? That was 20. I'm 40 now. So there's 20 years in there of different sexual experiences and partners and, you know, whatnot. But I can be very detached. And when I'm attached, it wasn't until I was, you know, a little older that I could be attached and feel. I think that, well, no, this, okay. So this is like totally opposite of what I was saying before. Because then there's the other version of feeling really safe. Right.

With someone and then being able to orgasm. Right. So I think the common denominator is safety. Safety in not feeling responsible for somebody else's feelings or inconveniencing them or safety and feeling completely loved and protected. But anywhere in between. Nothing happens. I like that theory.

Yeah. And then so that's a good thing to look for. It's like, okay, it's really about safety. It's really about safety. Yeah. Because you felt safe being completely you and free with someone you didn't have stock in. You weren't invested. Right.

You didn't care. Right. you felt safe. And then with someone you love, it's the same kind of feeling. I know I could do whatever and this person will love me unconditionally. But those people in between, it's a little sketchy. Sure. I feel like with you, though, you've always been able. I have. Yeah. I have. It really doesn't have much to do with safety for me. I feel like I've found my orgasm early. And so I feel like, and I've heard this from other women, too, is like once you find it, you have it. Right. And so you And you know, like, where to get to get it.

Uh-huh. Right? And so for me, I think that when I would detach, I could still do it. Interesting. Yeah. It's a skill. I believe it's a skill. And I believe not a lot of people talk about how do you find it?

Right. And is it something? Well, it's a taboo topic, right? Yeah. Why is that? I don't know. Like, it's the most natural thing in the world and it's so taboo. I've actually heard a lot of women talk about, you know, I work with a lot of,

women, as you know, and a lot of women use it as a form of relaxation and release and a way to unwind and a lot of women, too, are addicted to it. Have you come across women that are actually addicted to, I feel like I've seen that and I don't want to stereotype or whatever, but I do feel like men, you hear more addicted to masturbating and porn and whatnot. Right. So you hear that, which I think is really interesting and I don't find it to be true. whatsoever. Interesting. From all of the clients I work with, all the women I work with, all of the girls I talk to at every age, I find in relationships, women want more sex than men. Women masturbate just as much as men. They're as sexually driven. I think men are more sexually

driven outside of relationships from what I've gathered. Most women want to have sex all the time. And most men want to have sex all the time, too, until they're in a relationship. Don't you feel like when you're ovulating, though, like you need to have sex, like, way more than any other time in the month? Or is that just me? No, that's 100% true. And it's written in our body, isn't it? Yeah. It, like, literally is like... It's our body being like, you need to reproduce. Yeah. There's things written in our body. It was funny. I said to Jeff the other day, my husband, that why are my period cramps so bad? And he's a doctor, right? And he's like, it's your body's way of punishing you for not being pregnant.

Oh, my God. I was like, what in the actual fuck? And I thought about it. And he didn't mean it in a mean way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the truth is, I'm like, is he right? Is it our body's way of punishing us for not getting pregnant? So I think that when we're ovulating, we're more aroused and we want more physical attention because our body's actually instinctively wants to be pregnant. And so do you think that changes as you get older? I feel a big difference, but then I think about it. And I was on birth control for so many years that I didn't experience those feelings until I was older because I got off birth control, obviously, you know, in my early 30s. So yeah, I think it's different. And it gets more intense.

And I think it gets even more intense after you have children. More intense in what way? Like my PMS, my ovulating, like everything is so intensified since I had my child. It's palpable. Like, I get hot. Like, literally, like, I get annoyed at every little thing. Super irritable. I'm not going through men, plus. Hot flashes to my knowledge yet.

But super hot and, like, irritated and everything bothers me. And Lord help, whoever's the closest to me, because they take the brunt of it, my poor mother, a lot of the time. But, yeah, it's just interesting after kids. do think it intensifies? You don't feel the same? Well, I think that my period's intensified. Okay. And my PMS and all the symptoms that go with it are much worse. I, too, was on birth control for 20-something years. We were all on fucking birth control. But I don't think I had any idea that any of that was going on my whole 20s. Like, I think I was so out of touch with my body. Yeah, well, it's different. You know, you're young. And I do believe you get to know yourself more and more as you get older.

I do too, but like you said, you were on birth control. I was on birth control. Was that masking something? So I'm not sure what I would have felt like if I wasn't on it. I don't know. Right. We'll never know. I wonder if that affects your drive and all of that kind of stuff. It's interesting. I would actually like to look into that. Okay. So here's the other thing, right, when it comes to pleasure and there's toys, right? Vibrators, whatever. What are your feelings on them? I mean, I don't have strong feelings on them. I think for me, it's interesting. because I was in a relationship from 15 to 23. Right. So I legitimately had never given myself any sort of pleasure in that whole time. He did it for you. Yeah.

It never even occurred to me because I was so worn out from having a young boyfriend. Like they want to have sex all the time. It never occurred to me when I was alone to masturbate or give myself pleasure because I'm like, I'm on a break if he's not here. And so it wasn't until I was in my 20s. single and all of that stuff. So I never got into toys and all of that stuff until someone gifted it to me. Yeah. That's the same for me. Is it? Yeah. I was gifted a vibrator. Me too. In my 30s. I was in my 30s too. Yeah. But wait a minute. So did you have the same experience with not

feeling the need to do that young? I didn't. I didn't either. Yeah. Not that I don't know why. I mean, I just didn't know. Yeah. I was like looking back, I could have really been in touch with myself. Literally and figuratively. So when and who gifted you that? Well. Oh, is a relationship gift? No. Okay.

It wasn't a relationship gift. It was a gift from someone. So I've always been like really close to. Okay. It was a revisit gift. A revisit gift. Like they used it and wanted to revisit your inside. The person who gave it was.

or revisit. Okay. Someone who I really like trust and like, still a lot. Not the same guy that first. Okay. Hell no. All right. All right.

So anyway, it was a gift. Got it. Best gift we've ever gotten. Okay. Loved it. The gift that keeps on giving. The gift that keeps on giving. But had he not given it to me as a gift, I don't know that I would have gotten one on

my own. Same. I also kind of feel like when it comes to those, like vibrators or whatever, you don't want to become dependent on that. Because then orgasming any other way or, you know, during sex or whatever, you don't want to depend on a toy. Well, at least personally, I have found that I don't want to depend on it. So I don't like to overuse it. I honestly don't even think about it. I don't use it. I don't think about it. But I think that, too, is because... Well, you're married. Well, a lot of married couples, too. Sorry, that was me speaking from, like, a personal standpoint of having been

single for a while. You know what I mean? Yes. But yes, married people absolutely still use a vibrator. Yeah. It's just we haven't gotten to any of that stage in our relationship where we need extra help, you know, or want it. I mean, if you even have time to have sex with two of you. What do you mean, just the two of us? I mean, like you guys, if you have time to have sex, I mean, you have two kids. It's, you know.

Yeah, I think we do really well. You do. You make the time. And, you know, I'm always impressed. that you guys still have sex every week pretty much. Yeah. Well, I think that... Which is crazy to me. Is it? Well, you have two small children. Two small children. You guys work, you know. Yes. You're busy. Well, I think it's a really important part of marriage and commitment. And I think that if you don't make time for it, you end up with a roommate. And yeah, honestly, Jeff is a phenomenal human. I would have never chosen for a roommate.

You know? Yeah. Like that's one of the most important pieces of us cohabitating together and getting wrong. Right. It's really important. Yeah. It's impressive. What are your thoughts on taking responsibility for a partner's pleasure?

I've always been a people pleaser, I will say. So I always like to make sure my partner is taking care of. And I know maybe some people frown on that. Like, no, you're independent woman. Like you don't. But I'm just built that way. Sure. So I always like to make sure my partner is taking care of. Oh, I have a good question. Oh, no. I do. What? What are your thoughts on people paying for pleasure?

I got a call the other day from a girl I used to nanny who is really dear to me, who I love so much. And she's like, can you send me a voice recording on your thoughts on sex workers? And I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, what does that even mean? She's like, don't worry about it. Just answer honestly. Okay. And I was like, hey, my thoughts on sex workers are, I'm just not really very charged on that subject. I think that if that's what someone wants to do with their life and they do it in a safe way, then it's fine. And she's like, okay, great. I'm just getting people's points of view.

And so recently, quite recently, I heard an amazing story. And before I go into that story, I want to just hear what are your thoughts on paying for pleasure? Well, I think when you bring that up, it can be taken in many ways, you know, automatically I think, oh, prostitution. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know that I've ever really put that much thought into it. That's how I felt. Because it's like not something in my reality, in my own life. Mm-hmm.

You can think on it, but how about pleasure? What does that even mean, though? Paying for pleasure? I'm going to pay you. Like going to a strip club or something? Sure. Do you like that? Do I like that?

I can't say I'm a frequent strip club goer. Would you be mad if your dude went to a strip club? I don't want my dude getting a lap dance. Like, that's just, I don't like it. I don't either. I was in Portland recently that they say is like the biggest area for strip clubs. And they were teasing and they kept saying that they wanted to take Jeff to a strip club. And I was like, no.

No. I'm sorry. No. You can call me prude or not woke or any of those things. But like the truth of the matter is, that makes me. feel really uncomfortable. You don't want some other woman like making your husband dick hard by grinding on his lap. I really do

not want that. But no, the other spouses were fine with it. They were like looking at me like a prude. Right. So I think you and I are kind of cut from the same cloth in that regard. We have other friends who would not give a fuck. At all. At all. Like go for it. I give a fuck.

I do. Would your wife give a fuck, Rob? Oh. Probably. I've never been to one. You've never been to a Trip club? Never been to strip club. Ever in your life? Nope. Wow. What? I mean, that's kind of shocking. Although, you're just not into it. Because some guys are just not into that. Yeah. That's great. Yeah, I appreciate that. And Jeff was saying he didn't want to go. He's like, I don't want to go. And I honestly believe that he didn't want to go. Right. He was like, I'm going to go to a strip club dead sober. But that's such an interesting thing. Because I do feel like always as a girlfriend, as a partner, I've never liked the idea of my man getting like a lot.

dance or whatever. Yeah. And sometimes I feel pressure. I respect women who go out there. Like, that's how they're doing their thing. I respect it. Sure. I'm not mad at the stripper. But I've also felt this pressure because I feel like our friends and the people were around are so open and so awake and so non-judgmental and not traditional that if I have any kind of more traditional values that I'm being judged. Right. And the truth of the matter is, as I've matured, I've started to get comfortable with what is true for me.

Right. And so while I'm fine talking about these subjects or topics, I'm also fine saying, no, that makes me feel uncomfortable. Right. And I feel like it took me a while to get there. And I used to fake like, oh, I was cool. And like, it's fine if my guy does that. It's not.

No. For me. I understand that. Like younger, you want to be like, I'm the cool girlfriend. Yes. I'm the cool partner. Like, I'm cool. I go.

I don't care. But, like, you really do. Yes, you really do. And that's the thing is, like, I work with a lot of young girls. And the thing that I love about that is, like, helping girls find their truth young and be like, it's okay to be cool with it, not be cool with it. Right. To really click into your intuition and have enough confidence in yourself that you get to not go with the crowd and say, I understand that you feel this way. I don't.

I mean, I do that with my. daughter now, not in regards to anything like that. But like, it's okay if you're different in any way or like something else. She's really good about it. She's like, Mom, I don't like to play tag. So she didn't play with her best friend at school. She went and did something else on her own and she was fine with it. Yeah. It's like a little example of just building the confidence. It's huge. It starts that age. It's not pressuring. I'm like, no, tag is fun. You should go play. Right, right, right. Do what you. No, do what you want to do. Feel right about. Yes. Oh, so speaking of feeling right about something. Yeah. So we were at our.

our friend Erica's for her birthday dinner. Yeah. And one of our girlfriends will call her Sasha. Okay. Okay. Okay. Sasha? Yes.

I'm standing there. And all of a sudden, one of our friends goes, did you hear that? And I said what? They said, Sasha just said that she got a happy ending at a massage parlor. I said, stop it. Stop it. No, she fucking didn't. No, she didn't.

And I thought they were messing with me, you know? And I was like, Sasha, do you have something to tell me? And she's laughing and she's red. And it was like, she was full of excitement, though. And I was like, what happened? I said, did you really get a happy ending? Tell me. My mouth is just wide open this whole story. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And she said, she went for a massage. Like one does. I happen to get tons of massage. No one has ever offered me a happy ending. I didn't know that they, I mean, of course they exist. I ended up talking to a friend about this, a guy friend, and he assured me, assured me, that every single massage parlor in Los Angeles will give you a happy ending.

And I was... Rob looks skeptical. I was like, I don't know that I believe. There's no way. Like every, I don't know. about that. So he's running with a pretty elite crowd, so I don't know if it's something along those lines. But anyways, she went to get a massage and she said that there was an older man. Was it just offered up to her? I don't, okay. Sorry. I'm going to tell me the story. I'm going to take you through it.

I'm going to take you through it. Because this is so interesting to me. Okay. So she walks in, this was not in L.A. This is outside of L.A. in a little, groovy little town, right? She goes in for a massage. And she said that he was working on her. It was a man. Yeah. He came in between her thighs. And she said that she had been so stressed out and working so hard and that she typically makes noise when she's being massaged. Like Monica and friends. Okay. And she said he came to her thigh and she went, oh. And I was like, stop it. No, you didn't. Because that's never happened to me in a million years. I've gotten a lot of massages. I've never gone. Oh my gosh. So she's like, he's massaging me and I'm like, and she said he starts to slowly move his hand down further.

Wait a minute. Yes, yes. But he says, is this okay? And she said, I thought about it for a second and I thought it is. Oh. I was like, are we an episode of Sex and the Sea? That's exactly what I was just going to say. Yeah, yeah.

I was lipping up. Oh, my God. And she said it was such pride. And he got her off. She had a full orgasm. And this is what was tricky to me, too. She said I had an orgasm, but I didn't come. And I was like, what is that mean?

Is she a squirt her? That's what we said. We're like, do you squirt? Do you squirt? And so that brought up a whole other topic of everyone discussing whether or not this is. Yeah. And what was the majority? We have some squatters in the crowd.

Yes. Are you a skirting? No, I never have. No, I, no. No, I didn't know that that was like a thing that people... I've known people that do. Well, I've heard of it, but I didn't know our friends. Our squatters. We have some squatters amongst the crime.

I cannot say. Well, you're going to tell me. I'm going to tell you later. Okay. Interesting. And I know a lot of guys, like, get off on some... Squirting. Some, in my experience, like, I've heard conversations or whatever.

were they like that. Well, I think it makes them feel accomplished. Sure. Right. Fucking old faithful. Right. They're like I did that. I did that.

Yeah. Sure. So she... Would you be into it? Oh, Rob. I know. Poor Rob. It's time to fuck with Rob.

I know. Like, he's getting... I mean, I guess. There we have it. So what I wanted to know was, who is this guy that did that? Sure. Paint the fucking picture. Absolutely.

So she goes, he was about a 70-year-old. white man. I can't. You know what's even best? When she first went to the massage parlor, she asked to use the sauna and he was like, it's $50 more. And she's like, oh, forget it. Just the massage, right?

Yeah. So after she has her experience. Her orgasm, but didn't come. But full body orgasm. Okay. Great. Sure. I was like, what was it like after?

Did you like look him in the eye and give him money? Like, what was it at exchange? Did you exchange numbers? Yeah. What's the protocol here? And she said when it was done, he was just like, okay, great, you know, come back anytime. And you know what? Why don't you go ahead and use the sauna?

He offered the sauna up. He offered the sauna. So she got to use the sauna for free. This is mind blowing to me. Mind blown out of my head. Now, never in a million years would I think about this, like getting a massage. I will say this, though. What?

The best massage I ever had, and I'm not a huge, You're not. I don't love a massage. Like, I don't need a massage. Unless it's like my partner gives me one. I'm just not comfortable. Safety thing again, perhaps. Hmm.

Anyway. We have a thing. I was in Paris. And you know, in Europe, they're a little more free, right? True. A little more open, sexually, physically, whatever. Yeah. And this, like, older woman gave me a massage, but she massaged my boobs.

And I was like, that's kind of weird, but like, all right, cool. Like, sure. Whatever. And I remember being like, that was the best massage ever because she was just very free with the massage. Listen, there was no happy ending. No, there was no happy ending. Okay. But they weren't afraid to like just go there and it wasn't a thing. I understand. It wasn't sexual. No, not at all. It was zero sexualness attached to that. But it's interesting. Yeah. I mean, I've never had any experience even. Oh, I've had some good massages that you've been there for, but they have not been sexy.

Remember when the guy was massaging me? Oh my God. Oh my God, wait. Olivia. Wait, tell me. Remind me. All I remember is that I was really, really tired and I didn't want to talk. I was pregnant.

It was Shepard. And you were like, I need a massage. I need peace, quiet. And quiet. And he talked the whole time about every detail. Now I'm going to massage your leg. He started telling me about the muscles and the bones and this and that. And then the fucker fell.

He slipped. He slipped on the massage. oil. And fell. And like fell, but not just fell. Like straight up. Like a cat on the hands and knees. And then proceeded to reenact it for me like three times. What happened?

Yes. And I was like all I needed was a massage. Like I'm away from my kid and I'm pregnant. And you and Jill come out and you're like, oh, that was the best most relaxing massage. I was like, really? Because my guy explained to me. anatomy of the human body, then fell, then repeated it, and reenacted it three times. But he didn't felt like a cat. Like he caught himself and he bragged about it. He's like, but you don't even

understand. This is caught my body with my fingers. I can't. I can't. He was like, I have reflexes of a cat. He did say that. He said that. Oh my God. And then. I forgot about that, Olivia. And then we had to request that I didn't get him again because I had to. had a massage book for the next day. And it was him. And you got him again. He's like, remember, remember my cat-like reflex? How I felt? So that's about as sexiest massage as I've had. So good. Oh, my God. I'm crying. So good. But okay, so I'm just still kind of reeling from this happy ending massage that Sasha was given. Yeah. And is she going to go back? She said she'll never go back. She's too mortified. She's not. She felt good about it. She was happy about it. She wasn't

Now, she's a single woman. She is a single woman. She has no obligations. What are your thoughts, though, if she were to have done that and she was in a relationship? Do you think that's like a fine line there? No, I think it's a really dead line of cheating. Okay. Personally, I mean, I think that if anyone were to give my husband an orgasm, that would be 1,000% cheating.

Do you agree with that, Rob? I agree. Yeah. Cheating. Yeah, sure. I'm agreeing. I just wanted to, you know. But I'm in a monogamous marriage.

It doesn't make it not cheating if you're paying for it. No, it makes it even... Yeah. Well, but here's the thing, because this is always a topic, like, if it's not actual sex, right? Fornication, intimate sex, well, a blowjob that's still entering things. I feel like that is cheating and touch... Private areas, okay, fine. As you get older, if you kiss someone else, do you consider that cheating?

Yes. Yeah. I do. Yeah. I do? I'm really... Yeah. I'm really...

I agree. I just like to stir the pot. So I present it like I'm okay with it, but I'm not. There's not even a single part of me that's okay with it. I don't have that kind of... Well, kids it can be more intimate in a lot of ways, you know? If Jeff kissed another woman? Oh, yeah, fuck that.

Are you kidding me? Yeah, no, no. That would be... Yeah, no, I would lose my fucking mind. And I question that. That's something that's really hard for me to wrap my brain around how anyone could be okay with that. Right.

Here's my question. Yes. Why are we so shocked that she got a happy ending if we heard. If we heard one of our guy friends, single guy friends say this, would we be shocked? It's more shocking for a girl. Why? Why? That's what I'm saying.

It is. You always think guys get a happy ending. They get jacked off and they come at the end of a massage. It wouldn't blow your mind if you hurt that. It blew my mind. But think about how it's portrayed in movies or whatever. It's always like, you know, the guy looking for a happy ending. Right.

Or a female masseuse offering up a happy ending. Right. Right. But why is it that way? Yeah. And that just shows... It's really interesting. What kind of box women are still in and in society when it comes to taking responsibility

for their own pleasure. But when a man takes responsibility... You say, in a box? Yeah. You know, but when a man does it, people are like, yeah. Yeah. That's fucked. Isn't it?

Yeah. And that's why I, in that moment, to be honest, I was like, you know what? Good for fucking you. Yeah. She didn't pay him extra. The interesting thing she didn't pay him extra. She didn't pay him extra. It wasn't extra. It was not extra. He was into it. She didn't tip him? I think she tipped him. But she would have tipped him anyways.

Right. Seems more rude on her part if she didn't pay him extra. If she didn't pay him extra? If she didn't tip him? Yeah. Oh, God, that would be really rude. She's like, he didn't do a very good job. She's like, I only full body orgasms that I didn't squirt. That's so crazy though. But what I was thinking is like, he went for it. No, you said he started to go there. Yeah, but on her thighs, which is totally appropriate for a masseuse.

Like when they massage me, they put the little sheet in between your private parts and they massage your thighs. Sure. And so he was moving in that direction. And he said, is this okay? Now, if someone was just going to do your thigh massage in a typical way, they wouldn't ask if this is okay. I think that is this okay means the invitation to go further. Yeah. Huh. Right? See, I never have male masseuses. I'm not comfortable with it. I only do. Because you like the strength. I like a really good, hard massage. But I mean, I've never felt uncomfortable. I've never felt like someone was going to. This is very, I'm just shocked. It's a new world. I mean, for some people. I mean, for me. It opens up a whole world. I was just like, what is happening? And is this normal.

Right. Are more people doing it than we have any idea because if Sasha is doing it. And it happens and it's offered up. I didn't even know that was an option. Right. I would never be someone that was. okay or comfortable with that personally. But nothing against it. So here, I have a question. What would you say? I don't know. Me neither. In her situation, I'm like, whatever. It is what it is. Her own thing. But what would you do if you were getting a massage and they're at your thigh region? Yeah. And they say, is this okay? What would you do? Well, I would be confused. I'd be like,

yeah, you can massage my thigh. Like, I wouldn't think, well, he obviously was very close. He was obviously in the crease. Right. So what would you do? I would say, what do you mean? Well, there was pleasure moaning. There was other context, please. I mean, yeah, like, if you're moaning, if you're moaning and they're like in that inner crease, right where it's about to cross on over, like, you know. Yeah, but would you like say no, it's not okay and leave the room, or would you finish the massage? Even though you knew he was offering you happy ending, you didn't want it.

Would you stay for the rest of the massage? What would you do? See, and this is where I feel like I would be conflicted. Okay. Like my people pleasing skills. Right. Right? Oh yeah. Would come in to be like, okay, I want to neutralize this, not make it awkward and just say no. But then I probably would stay for the massage even though I was uncomfortable. That's what I would do. Yeah. And that's not cool. My whole life, I've always been the people who are scared to speak up like when I was little. Yeah. Like this woman was doing my hair with a curling iron, fully burning my ear and I didn't say anything. That's, like, what is that? That's what I'm saying. And that's what I don't want to do anymore. And that's, That's right. I've worked hard on that. You've done remarkable with that. You've found your voice.

But the truth of the matter is, like, if I'm being completely honest with myself, that's probably what would happen. But now that we've discussed it, that's not what would happen. I would say, no, it's not okay. And I feel uncomfortable and leave. It's like, is that okay? Yeah, I think that would be so awkward. What would, what would you do, Rob, if you were getting a massage and that happened? I'd probably say no, thanks. And then. You'd get up and leave? No, I probably wouldn't leave you there. You would just finish the massage, but kind of ignore it. But in your head. Would you be comfortable?

Yeah, I'd be the same as you in that situation. Yeah. Yeah, I think I would do the same. I'd be like, okay. Oh, no, that's not okay. But my head is really, really needs some attention. My toe really needs some attention. And now do you think it's wrong?

And so that comes back to the question. Do you think it's wrong to pay for pleasure? My first initial reaction to it is like, absolutely it's wrong. You know what I mean? But then I'm like, but it's not, I don't know. It's very, very personally targeted. Yeah. And I don't judge people.

Right. Well, you can say you wouldn't pay for pleasure. I would not. Would you look down on someone that did? I don't look down on Sasha. So there you. Yeah. So there's your answer.

I don't look down on her either. No, I wouldn't look down on anyone for that. I mean, obviously, there's certain situations you would feel differently. But no. I would never personally. And I think, yeah, good for her. Whatever. And then it goes back to that thing, too, where it's just like such a different standard for women.

Like, I know a lot of my ex-boyfriends has slept with prostitutes. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I'm sure yours have to. Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. Or unknowingly, anyway.

What if, you know what I mean? No, I'm sure they have paid for sex. Paid for prostitutes? Who? Out of your ex-boyfriends? Yeah. Dang near every single one of them. Do you know friends of yours pay for sex that you know of?

I know of one friend that has. And what do you think about it? I wouldn't do it, but I don't. Yeah. It's like whatever. Down on him. Like he pays for actual prostitutes. No, he's done it once.

Okay. And I have another friend who's in a masseuse parlor. It accidentally happened. How does it accidentally happen? It's called a happy accident. He didn't know his friend brought him to a masseuse parlor in Japan. Yeah. And then the lady just like jumped on him.

And he like very quickly was like, no, no, no, no. Oh, he said no. Yeah. But. Jumped on him to actually have sex? Yeah. And, I mean, he went inside of her. Wow.

He didn't ejaculate. So, but wouldn't that be considered rape? You mean, she hopped up. Yeah, she hopped up on him and sat on his dick essentially. Yeah. Because he was hard because she made him hard and he was okay with that part of it. I didn't ask him about his erection. I want the details here.

I'm like, so she like. So we have him on next week. That is so crazy. And he pulled her off after he had already been inside her. Yeah, I think it would be. Yeah. And he left immediately and was not happy about it and, like, called his girlfriend. Oh.

Very upset. Oh, that makes me want to cry. I don't like that. But that's like raw too, dog, like just hopped on a raw wiener. I was gonna get into it, but he said that she put a condom on him with her mouth and then very quickly. This all happened like very fast. Wow. I'm never letting my husband out of the house again.

That's insane. So I think the thing is, it's like way more common than, I mean, it has. it happens. I feel like, no, that doesn't happen. It's not allowed to happen. You know, but it obviously happens a lot. Yeah. I think that there's more people that have done it than we would even know. I think there's more people that it's happened to. And I'm very curious how they get away with it. I think the rest of the day my mouth is just going to be wide open, like on the floor. In shock, really. No penises may enter it. It's not an open invitation. Your mouth?

Yeah. Just because it's open. Yeah. Right. Nope. Not an open invite. Well, Olivia. Well, Rachel.

This has been quite the conversation. Thank you for being so open, vaginally and talkingly. I'm just kidding. I'm going to kill you. I know. What else is new? Can't wait to cover the next one. Thanks, everybody.

Thank you. Bye. Bye. That was a headgum podcast.