Broad Ideas with Rachel Bilson & Olivia Allen - Pokimane on Internet Stalkers, Beauty Standards, and Inspiring Girl Gamers

Episode Date: April 3, 2023

Pokimane, the world’s biggest female Twitch streamer, tells Rachel and Olivia about the ins and outs of streaming, internet stalkers, and game recommendations for casuals. They also discuss stalkers in the streamer space, how social media can affect young girls, and reality TV. Broad Ideas is supported by Factor. Head to factormeals.com/ideas50 and use code ideas50 to get 50% off your first box.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hax is back for its fifth and final season, and so is The Hacks podcast. Join the Hacks creators and showrunners, Lucia and Yellow, Paul W. Downs, and Jen Statsky as they unpack the Emmy-winning comedy series. On each episode, hear stories from the set, what goes on in the writer's room, and how these beloved characters close out their final season. Watch Hax streaming exclusively on HBO Max and listen to The Hacks podcast on HBO Max, or wherever you get your podcasts. Broad Ideas is supported by Factor.

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We've got a great guest for you this week. Rachel, do you want to let everyone know who we've brought on? I'm super excited because I learned something today, you guys. I like to be up on all the things that the kiddos are doing and into. Sounds like it. When you say it like that, we can tell us. I know. I know.

But Pocene, I mean, first of all, She's the most followed female streamer. That is so awesome. I didn't know anything about Twitch and all of these things with video games and the fact that she's accomplished this. Over 30 million followers on her social channels. I mean, it's just crazy. She's huge. It's huge.

Good for her. And I'm so happy that she came to talk to us today. So let's talk to Poki. All these thoughts are swirling, round and round inside. To join us on this journey as we take a little ride. We'll talk about dogs and kids and things. We'll talk about chicks and tampon strings. We'll talk about boys.

Because people die. I feel like looking into these kind of spaces, it must be like, what is that like? What is this like? What's like the nitty gritty? Industry secrets. I'm like, I'm here to tell you whatever you want. Oh, good, because we have That's what we want to know. All of it. Literally anything. Yeah, because we're from obviously like a completely different world field, whatever. And I'm so interested in your space because I know nothing about it. I'm also, it's very fascinating to me, like the ways that different industries, especially like, let's say Hollywood and like New Age social media streaming all of this, honestly, they have a lot of commonality. Even though they seem very different, I feel like at the end of the day, anything in entertainment will have a lot of overlapping things in common.

Yeah, some similarities for sure. Should be interesting to discuss, yeah. Yeah, definitely. So first we want to know, like, how it all started and how it all came about for you. Streaming, I guess, in particular? All right, well, growing up, I was always super into video games. I actually find, like, I don't know, the more I'm in this industry, a lot of girls especially tell me like, yeah, I grew up playing video. games. But I feel like sometimes they had this sentiment that like once they got to a certain age,

they like weren't allowed to play games anymore or it wasn't deemed as acceptable. But for me, because I had an older brother that played games all the time. I was like, I'm doing whatever he's doing. Yeah, so that's how I got into gaming. And then my senior year of high school, I had friends that I would game with online. Honestly, it was kind of a Hannah Montana vibe. We're like, I would go to school and I was one person. And then I was like, student council. straight A's, like very studious. And then I'd come home and all I would do is like game with my friends online. And they would tell me about Twitch, which is like a streaming gaming platform. You really just broadcast yourself and your games and you talk to people who are watching. It's basically what it is. I was like, that sounds so fun because at my high school, I didn't really know that many people that played games, especially girls. And I was like, I just want to make more friends who are interested in the same hobby that I'm into. So yeah, I just started doing that. like casually as a hobby in high school. I went to college. I did two years of chemical engineering. Not fun. Oh my God. But why? What made you go towards that? Well, growing up, I was like with a pretty

strict family and education was always like a huge focal point. And to me it still is. Like to this day, I credit a lot of my skills to the things that I learned in school, even if it wasn't directly the same topics, it's still just like the act of learning that was really helpful just for the rest of your life. But anyways, it was always ingrained in my mind, like, listen, you're going to be a doctor, a lawyer, or an engineer. You can pick which one. That's the choices you got, though. And engineering kind of felt like what I enjoyed the most. Right. So yeah, I went into that and I would stream on the side. And before going into my third year, like I just knew my course load would be so heavy that I would have to either fully quit streaming or like take a

gap year and pursue streaming a little bit. See how it goes. I did that and I never went back. Wow. That's so crazy to me. It's not. So I have a seven-year-old and his goal in life is to do what you do. To be. A thousand percent. I'm like, what do you want to be when you grow up? And he's like, I already know. You know? And he practiced. He practiced. He does, he has the voice down. So cute. He is. The voice is huge. Oh, the voice? It is. Yeah. Some people have a whole career just because they have like such a good voice. I'm jealous, for real. What do you think it is about you that hit? What do you, what do you attribute that to? I'll say a couple things. One of them, for sure, just being timing, frankly. Like, I think if I had done the exact same things that I did, but five years earlier or five years later,

career would not be the same because streaming in and of itself as a form of entertainment blew up luckily during the same time span that I was doing it. And also in hindsight, I think I just really enjoyed what I was doing. So it made it easy. Like I was just so hooked on games. It was really, really fun. And I was very like, yeah, bright-eyed about it all. I'm a bit jaded now, but yeah. Honestly, just like being very happy doing all of those things. Yeah. Yeah. So you just...

Genuine enjoyment. Just loved playing video games. And you literally were just talking and about what you were doing in front of you. I also just... I talk a lot. Like too much. So that's very fitting for this job as well. Right.

It's always... I got a lot of things on my mind. So I feel like the star is really aligned for me. Yeah. What do you remember the moment like when you realized like, oh, like people are actually subscribing or, right? That's like people subscribe to your channel. Is that the word?

Is that the word? You know there are. Yeah, there's so many words. And it's kind of confusing because it depends on the platform. For example, YouTube, you subscribe for free. Instagram, you follow for free. Twitch, you follow for free, but you subscribe with money. Yeah. So when you hear subscribers on Twitch, it means like people that are paying every month. And then subscribers on YouTube are just, essentially it's the same term as followers. So it depends on the platform. But why do, why would they pay if they can get it for free on YouTube or... So actually, you can still follow someone on Twitch and you still watch the same content.

Subscribing on Twitch, you just get like added perks. For example, like in the chat where my viewers are talking to me, you can have like a little badge, which makes like your message more likely to be seen because like you have a subscriber badge like, hey, I'm one of your subscribers. And also, you don't have to watch ads. So when you roll like an hourly ad or something, your subscribers don't have to see it. Yeah, just a bunch of little perks. Sometimes, like, for me, I allow my subscribers to send links in chat that I can open up, but non-subscribers can't.

So, yeah, you can set certain perks like that. And are they text messages when they're talking to, or do you actually see people? They are text messages, but, like, a super, super brand new feature is that now you can set up, like, this feature to bring one of your viewers, like essentially on stage with you and talk, almost like on a Zoom call. And you can stream that to everybody. Yeah. It's not super common yet, but very new feature. Well, so are you ever a little scared or hesitant? Like, who can actually reach out to you and talk to you? Because for me, I would be a little like guarded with your popularity and what comes with that, you know? That's what I'm saying. Like going into it, I was like, we, everybody in the world is so nice. Also, I think I was lucky because I grew up in Canada and I feel like that instilled a positive, like, faith in everybody.

Exactly. Yes. Faith in humanity. Yes. But over the years that has been molded a little bit. I don't want to say broken down. Molded. Don't let them take it. Don't let them take it.

Yeah. I try. Yeah. But yeah, I think, well, for starters, there are what you call moderators, which are people who can remove messages from the chat. You can set certain words that people aren't allowed to say. Like, their messages literally won't be sent if you say those words. So there are a lot of tools.

Thank God. to help moderate your chat a little bit, but there really are still crazy people who will make like a thousand different accounts. Like even when you ban them, they'll just make another one, come say the same thing over and over again. What is with people? Like what is with them? What is it? We were just talking about this. To be fair, I think unfortunately, like some people likely struggle with like mental health issues that they don't have the resources to pursue any sort of solution for and the internet is just so accessible. And that's actually something that I've been struggling with now since I'm 26 and I started doing this when I was 17. So it's like eight, nine

years at this point. And I'm struggling with like the accessibility of streaming. I feel like it's hard to do that all the time forever. I think that's the big issue. Like the internet is free and people going to your stream is free and sending you messages is free. And so if they can do that, If it's not them, it's going to be someone else. Right. I also think there's a bit of like, the internet also lacks any sort of like repercussions for your actions. Yeah. Yeah.

So it's easy to get stuck in that loop. If you are someone who's like doing bad things, you can just keep doing them forever with no repercussions. Right. Well, unless you get caught doing the really, really bad things and they find your, they can track computers and stuff. Right. Yeah. Be warned. Be warned out there.

Actually, streaming has a huge issue with that where, like, the police only really intervene when it's like way too late. If you speak to almost any female streamer, yeah, she's going to have a crazy, like, stalker story. Yeah. And the issue with that is they will all, like, struggle personally with it and then at some point likely go public just to say like, hey, this person has shown up at my house, numerous occasions. I've told the police. And every single time, the only thing the police will say is tell us when they show up again or when they do something worse. It's like they can only really work retroactively. They can't really do anything to protect you until it's honestly too late. And so I feel like there's still so much catching up that legislation has to do in order to truly protect, especially women online.

Right. Yeah. And we only hope. Yeah, no, it's really important. And I think that like is there something? because I know you have your own company, right? And is there something that within your company that you guys are pushing forward to offer more protection for streamers? Yeah. So less so within my company. Within my company, the reason that I wanted to launch RTS as like a management and consultancy firm within gaming is because I feel like I've learned so much over the years and I always wished there was someone that I could go to for that kind of expertise or help. And so I wanted to be able to be there for any of the talent that we manage as like a resource. Like if anyone else

deals with like stalker issues or moderation problems, at least they know that they can reach out to me and I can at least give them everything that I've learned. But aside from that, honestly, the people that we've tried reaching out to are mainly like, I don't know, like governors or people who are actually in positions of power that can help maybe push. certain legislation, but even on that front, it's really, really difficult. So I hope and do what we can. Yeah. Right. And well, you brought up mental health. And I think you have spoken about that as well, which I think is amazing. And especially, you know, you're 26 and you've had all this exposure, but you're willing to put everything out there for, you know, everyone who's watching. And is that something that came to you because of this,

like mental health struggles or where did that start for you? Yeah. Actually, I do. feel like, for me, the reason I want to speak out about it is I feel like it'll only become more and more common because of social media usage. I think before being on social media, of course, there were things that I was stressed out or anxious about. You know, you have boy problems and they make you so sad. You know, you feel kind of depressed for like a week or two. But I feel like my mental health was mainly really impacted where I felt formed by my usage. of social media. And even then, I felt self-aware enough to be like, oh, I can see my like habits or tendencies becoming worse the more that my screen time gets higher. But frankly, it made me

really, really concerned for like the younger generations. And I was like, if I had to, I guess I consume the same type of imagery and messages and to the same extent that I do now, but I was like 14, and my brain is so much younger and so much more easily influenced. I can't even imagine how impactful that would be and difficult it would be to manage. So I want people to know not just that they're not alone, but more so that I want people to reclaim their power a little bit more and at least be able to kind of handle the things that we can impact when it comes to our mental health. It's not going to be everything, but there's still a lot that can be with. within our power. And I also hope parents can, like, become a bit more educated on the impacts that

social media has. Yes. Yeah. I mean, I was looking at my niece the other day on TikTok. I didn't tell you this, Rachel. No, you didn't tell me. She's beautiful. Like, she's a stunning, precious little baby. Yeah, baby. She's 14 years old. That's so baby to me. But the filters and the things. Yeah. She had a bunch on? Yes. And she is a. a naturally, you know, beautiful young lady, but she's got these filters on and we're looking at this. It's so sad because, and then I tried it on my face and I was like, holy crap, I looked so pretty. And then I took it off and I was like, oh.

Yeah. And it jolts you to be like, wait, now I'm disappointed in my face. Yeah. Which is so toxic and sick and scary. for young women, I feel like something needs to be done about it personally. It makes me... I completely agree. And like as a content creator, I struggle with that a lot, especially being in a male-dominated space. Like I feel like if I was in a female-dominated space, it would be a bit easier to be up front about like the filters, the makeup, the this,

the that. But in the past, times that I have tried to do that, oh my God, guys will like really attack you. Anytime you don't look like your absolute best. Oh, for sure. Yeah. And so that's also one of the reasons that I've been wanting to step away a little bit from like just streaming and pursue like a more diverse community is because I want to be able to speak about these topics and feel like I'm actually speaking to audiences that care to hear those things. Right. But I agree with you on the filters front and managing like, how can I use these things for fun and very casually without having it completely warp my self-perception or like what I expect myself to look like.

Can you? Yeah. I can't say for sure. I feel like if it's extremely minimally, maybe. But yeah, you need to essentially spend like at least an equal amount of time not worrying about those things. But I had a similar moment as you where I went back to Canada. That's where I grew up.

And my mom teaches at an elementary school. And they always like really, really want me to come by. So I did. And I met everybody. And there were these girls who were like in the third grade or something. And they wanted to take a photo with me. And they did. And then they looked it and they were like, oh my God.

Like I look terrible. We need to use a filter bowl. And I'm like, you're like 12 or 13, bro. I was like, oh my gosh. I was like, no, you don't. No. Right? Like you're fine.

It's going to be fine. But I feel like it is people like, that need to yell that because you're close enough to them that they're going to hear you, you know, and they look up to you and what you do is the epitome of what kids in that age group want to do, right? I think there should be like a parental control or like something to unlock filters that actually put makeup on you or alter your face, like the puppy dog one. Yeah, it's all cute fine. Exactly. But the ones who like, honestly, even I find it annoying because sometimes I want to use filters that are like cute

because frankly cameras sometimes are like even a human being looking at you will not be able to count your pores like a camera will sometimes you just want to use something that's like cute or fun and seeing them all like warp your face make your jaw four inches smaller it doesn't even look

normal anymore so no there's all like the face tuning like people are actually changing their faces right yeah 100% and then you see them in person and you can see that they don't look like what they're putting out there. And the thing is, is that I think that the messaging behind it is what's the most important, right? And what it makes you feel about

yourself that these people do not even know that it's chipping away at their self-esteem because they're thinking it's cute, it's fun, whatever. But then when they look in the bare mirror, they're like, oh, I should look like a filter. It's tough, especially because it's kind of like what comes first, chicken or the egg. Because ultimately, I feel like people using these filters or face tuning or doing whatever, it comes from a place of like expectation. Like people expect that from them. And if that's not what they post, oftentimes like they get very attacked for it. I think Chloe Kardashian is like a perfect example of this where for years she was just like heinously bullied for the way that she looked, especially in comparison to her sisters. And then

once she does actually go through with like the procedures or surgeries to look like quote unquote as good or whatever you want to say I don't like to compare people but right you get what I mean to become like more conventionally what people expect her to be people will also still shame her for that and so it's like we can't win exactly it feels like there's no winning it's either like is it creators I need to make this more acceptable or is it people that need to be more empathetic and compassionate in the way that they interact with others online. Right. Both maybe. I would like to say both. Yeah. Yeah. How has it specifically affected your mental health? I think for me, before the last, like, let's say six months to a year, when I was just streaming all the time,

I actually feel like I didn't think about it that much because I was working so much. But actually, once I started streaming less and using social media more, I had more of a sentiment of how much like all the images that I was seeing were kind of like seeping into my subconscious and then comparing myself like in the mirror. Right. Yeah. And so I very much noticed that change when like, for example, my TikTok usage went up. And the thing is, even people on TikTok don't look like themselves on TikTok. And so I feel like if you want to still use these apps without them impacting you too much, you just need to limit the usage, which I try to, you know, like 30 minutes a day, max an hour maybe.

But I feel like the more you use them, the more it will really, really, really ruin your self-perception. And that it's just so hard to rebuild your self-esteem afterwards. I feel like the only real way to is like to just fully disconnect and interact with people face to face a lot more. Because in person you notice like, oh, everybody just looks human. Nobody looks perfect ever. And frankly, even being like I'm Moroccan or like Middle Eastern and living in L.A., so many people look like so perfect and like very L.A. and it makes me feel a little bit, I guess, like, ostracized in a way, whereas recently I went to Milan and London. And specifically Italy, I felt like I saw people who had like much more similar

features as me. And it really, it really reinforced this idea that especially if you're a minority of any sort, I think it's really important to surround yourself with people who look like you to normalize the way that you look. Otherwise, you're going to think that you need to to change your ethnic features to just suit the people that are around you, even though you're totally fine the way that you are. Right. Yeah. I just, it's so, you know, we both have kids. So for us, it's like really thinking about all these things. I think it's really good that you guys are thinking about it. Like that's step one, right? Right. And step two is probably like having these conversations probably once your kids are like of age to really understand, but also just like

managing the time that they spend on their on their devices well no so my daughter just yeah recently got into roblox where you can play you know you find your friends that's fun yeah it's fun I don't know anything about this and like her dad's like do you even know what she's playing and I'm like not really but it's fine right like is it innocent if I can serve as any sort of guide for you guys you know just like looking back at my life and growing up I think video games were like such a fun part of my childhood. Obviously, not like eight hours every single day, but I would be much more lenient with like video games, board games, especially if they're playing with other people and like socializing a little bit, like their siblings or friends that they know. I think that's pretty fun and

like not as detrimental to their mental health. Obviously, it'll be a hobby that like they find really addicting. But I also think that paired with like a physical hobby is like great. Yeah. Social media though is like a whole different ball game. I feel like that, yeah, that really, really just shapes their mind so much that it needs to be managed a lot until they're of age that they can manage it themselves to some extent. So they have these phones that I saw an ad for that are just for kids where you can't get on the internet. You can't have social media. Yeah. It's literally just like an email or a text or whatever.

So you can contact a parent or like whatever. And I'm like, that's all I'm going to do. Because I guess I'm a little, I don't know if I'm stricter with it. Because TV time, she watches on a TV. But, like, her iPad usage, you know, is usually just on an airplane. But now that Roblox has been introduced, like, on the weekends and she can play with her friends. But I see the addictive mentality. Like, where she's like, Mom, can I play Roblox?

Like, it's almost like, you know, like, give me a hit. Oh, Elliot is full-blown addictive. I know that. I've witnessed that. Yeah. Beyond. But he plays with his friends. And, like, they play.

They're in a different, they're in Oregon. And it's like, they play together. And it's so cute. And I'm like, it's interactive. It's creative. I would much rather that than him watching. A gazillion random TikToks and you have no idea of the algorithms feeding them. Yeah. Exactly. That's so scary to me. And we had a friend that's, you know, we were talking about the filters. Our friends sent us that thing this morning of the filter, which was the same exact thing of like, it would be so just to be young and impressionable and have that is just. just it's also desensitizing. It is. Like I think I don't worry as much. I feel like it is a little bit different because I have boys when it comes to that. But I'm looking at the effects that it's going to have on them and them thinking girls should look a way that they don't. And it's the same thing with like porn being so easily accessible and all of that. That it's like, where is the

connection. Where is the real life? Everything is so accessible. It scares me for them. Yeah. Well, because, you know, you're 26. So your whole life, the internet has been around. Yeah. But still not to this extent. Right. Middle school, high school, it was like, everybody kind of has Twitter, but you don't really even talk about what people post on Twitter. Right. But nowadays, like, I can't even imagine. Like, I'm thinking people in high school or middle school all care a lot about TikTok and, like, who has had one viral video or two viral videos or whatever, right? What makes it viral? Is it a certain number? Usually, yeah. What's the number? I want to say, I think what is so addicting about TikTok to most people is that anybody can go viral. Like, you can post a hundred videos and they all

get 20 views, but if you post the right video or like with the right song at the right time, it could just get a million. And so I think it creates this almost like lottery system where you want to like keep hitting. Right. Another addictive thing. Oh, yeah. It makes no sense. We posted a couple.

We have like a little TikTok, right? We just started it. For the video. For the podcast. And one video went to like 600,000 views overnight. And it was like nothing. We weren't even talking about anything. I know.

You don't know. And like that's the both fun and addicting part. Right. Honestly, the way that I've used social media is like they're all different little drugs. Some are more addictive than others. Some aren't as bad. Some are more creative. Right. So I just feel like self-awareness is very important and also just balancing it with an equal amount of like real life experiences. And on the point that you mentioned about your boys, I'm so glad that you keep that in mind because so, so, so true. And I actually see a lot of

young women online, especially on TikTok, talk about that so much about like porn addiction, how it shapes young boys' minds, the correlation between that and their likelihood of being physically abusive and also just generally like expectations of how other girls should look. Like it's hard enough being a young girl or a young woman and, you know, the things that we expect of ourselves and our appearance. But as soon as like you have a guy project those things onto, oh, it's like twisting the knife, you know? Yeah. And then it's just like stuck in there. It really builds so, many like inherent insecurities. That's why for me like one of the biggest green flags and guys is when they don't use social media a lot. Right. Which is so silly coming from like me.

You know, I'm like maybe that's hypocritical. I don't know. No, I love green flags. We don't talk enough of like green flags. That's awesome. We talk red flags all the time, but green flags are important. And that's a really good one. And Rachel has the same thing. She's an, you know, as an actress, we're saying no to her dating actors. Ooh. Oh, no, it's the same with me as a streamer. I noticed dating within the industry is not a good time. Have you dated streamers?

Yeah, and I feel like it's also really tough because streaming, likely like any social media platform is like very all-consuming. But I think especially streaming, because when you're live, the whole idea is you want to be live for as long as possible. And anytime you're not live, it's almost like a wasted opportunity. Someone else could be live. Like maybe they're taking your viewers. Yeah, it's a very, very toxic mindset. Another reason I wanted to dabble in other things. But yeah, as opposed to other social media platforms, like, you can post three times a day or once a day or once a week and just like leave it alone. Streaming, it's like there's opportunity literally every second of every day. So with that being said, it becomes very, very all consuming. Like you think about it all the time. And then how. How? How can I be fully consumed in something and you're fully consumed in something and we're both so busy and our schedules are hectic? Like, when are we ever going to find time for each other? Yeah.

I feel like, yeah, it's almost like it can be very hard to date someone who's exactly like you. Like if our schedules are exactly the same, we'll never, or like just as busy, we will never see each other. Yeah. So it's essentially like you have a camera on you at all time. Like if you're live, like you want it for as long as possible. So people are just watching your every move. Like even when you go to the bathroom, you're like, you just get up, two minutes, come back. Oh my gosh.

Yeah. People don't like to leave for too long. Yeah. Right. So you have like a room in your house that's just dedicated to. Yeah. Just streaming room. Streaming room.

Actually, I even made a fake wall in it. Really? Yeah, because I wanted like a specific lighting orientation. So it's kind of funny. Like in the past, you know, it would just be like my actual bedroom. And now it almost looks like a set. Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

Yeah. Because I made a fake wall. That's so cool. And what do your parents think about this whole, you know, half and journey? Yeah. Initially, I mean, I tried very hard to convince them to like, let me take a gap here. I was like, listen, worst case scenario, I'll just save up some money and I'll go back to college, which is, you know, kind of enticing as a parent.

So, yeah, and then I just pieced up forever. I think initially, like, they didn't really understand it because live streaming is even so far behind like YouTube videos, you know? At least my YouTube, like, they can watch and they kind of get it. But then, like, streaming, it took them, I feel like years. And even now, like, they'll never watch a live stream because it's just not a platform that, like, they really frequent. But they are very, very supportive and I'm so thankful for that. I feel like it wasn't until like my mom's students would come up to her and like, pokey this, pokey that, but like she really understood it. And now she's so cute. She's like, I'm so proud. I birthed Pokey Me. I'm like,

that's adorable. That is so cute. They must be so proud now because like everything that you, the success you've had is amazing. And yeah, you were in Milan for Fashion Week. Yeah, I did. I had like an opportunity with Gucci, which was insane. That's so cool. And very validating for me because like I over the last six months or so I've been trying to kind of step out of the gaming space just for like some visibility which might be interesting to you guys basically like gaming is like super

male dominated especially streaming but then during the pandemic like it's weird because the pandemic in and of itself very very sad time but for gaming because everybody was at home the demographic actually got so much better which made women feel so much better streaming and helped a lot more women succeed, which was really, really nice.

And during that time, I felt like, oh, my God, like, this is what I've been waiting for all of these years, all these years, when something terrible would happen and you knew that it was rooted in, like, sexism or misogyny or, like, the way guys treated women, the crumb of hope that I'd hold on to is like, it's okay. In like five or ten years, it won't be like this. And so really, during that time, when, like, it really exploded, I was like, this is what I was waiting. for. But since then, like, obviously I'm glad things are much better now. People are going out more. But streaming has, like, died down a bit. And in my opinion, like, gone back to how it was before. Especially, I don't know if you guys know much about, like, Andrew Tate or just like,

oh, he's the guy that, um, with the, what was it with the thing? With the fake thing? No. No. He's the guy with the- He just talks about women a lot and sometimes- But what was the thing recently with him that was in the news? He went to jail. Yeah, he went to jail because they found him. Oh, this guy, yes. Because he talks shit about Greta. Oh, Greta. Yeah.

Yeah. That's what I was thinking of. He had like a pizza box and so they realized he was found him. Back in the country. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, so now he's in jail. He hasn't been sentenced, but he's like in jail waiting sentences, something like that. Okay.

Either way. Not to speak about him in particularly, but there's just been a lot of, I would say, like, sexist rhetoric that has gotten really popular in the industry. And it just makes me feel like, oh, like, we're going to go back to this. I'm like, I'm getting too old for it. Right. Yeah. Like, I'd rather just be at peace making content elsewhere that doesn't feel as toxic, frankly.

Yeah, as streaming. So what is it? Like, you're looking at other things. What does that look like? Like, what are the goals? Honestly, even just like posting vlogs on YouTube. Yeah, that's why I was saying, like, the opportunity with Gucci was really validating. because it's like, oh, I can do things that aren't like inherently tied to just streaming.

Right. So, yeah, just opting for more things like that, traveling, enjoying my life a bit more. What's in your heart, though? Is there something that you've always wanted to do that you want to set out to do? That's such a sweet question. I believe you have a heart. Thank you. I feel like I'm still searching for almost like that loop of fulfillment.

Yeah. Like I think before it was really easy for me to feel fulfilled within streaming because I knew as a female streamer, I was kind of pushing for things that hadn't happened before and progressing in that way. I feel like now I just have so many ideas and things I want to share and thoughts. Even this discussion about like beauty standards, like filters and, you know, even the pressure that people must feel to get like different kinds of procedures, all of these things. I think I just want to like share. my heart and my life. And figuring out the right medium to do that again is very difficult. Is it anything like a reality show where it's like... Reality TV scares me. Yeah. I mean, if you guys know much you can share. But the difficulty with reality TV coming from a content creator's perspective is I'm so used to having creative freedom that from what I've heard and see,

Like sometimes when you're on reality TV, like they can create the narrative for you. Yep. You know? And it's like that's beyond your control really. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You don't have as much control with yours.

It's like your own personal. Yeah. It's like, oh, I feel like I didn't express myself the way that I intended. At least I can like change that before I post it, things like that. Yeah. Yeah. So in your success, like, what's dating like for you? Are you like apprehensive?

Are you wondering like, oh, they just, you know, are big gamers? It's complicated. Yeah. Are you in a relationship now? I actually, like, I don't really talk about my relationship or lack thereof publicly because, like, in my industry, people are intense with that stuff. Right. No, like, the stalkers really go next level.

I'm sure. So you have to keep it very, you know. I'm like, I'll tell you guys when I have a ring on my finger until then, just know I'm living life. Right, right. Also, it's difficult because if you are public, about your relationship, people will say like you're using him or he's using you. If you keep it private, people say like, oh, you just want people to think you're single for whatever reason.

So it's kind of like lose-lose either way. And initially at the beginning of my career when like, you know, I was kind of a nobody. If I dated someone more popular than me, I feel like I wouldn't even have a brand. Like I would be known as ex-person's girlfriend. Right. Yeah. And now that I have a brand of my own. If I date anyone, frankly, they're going to be known as my boyfriend. And I don't think, I feel like that's a really big decision for a guy to make, you know? And if a guy like genuinely likes you, like he doesn't care so much for those labels. He's like, if anything, it's like added pressure. It's like you're inviting people into your relationship. Well, you're also inviting them to be attacked, right? Or get more attention if that's not necessarily something that they're doing on

their own. And the people that I've liked in the past, like, especially those not in the industry, tend to be like really sweet souls. And those kind of people, like, they don't even want that kind of attention. And it's difficult. Like, imagine your partner doesn't want to be public and the public blames you for them not wanting to be public, you know? Like, oh, you just want to look single. And I'm like, no, like, sometimes it's out of respect for the other person, for their privacy, their security. So there's just so much people don't know. And it's, it's. It's so. It's. And it's, tough just like having it twisted against you and whatever way. I think about that with Brad Pitt's new girlfriend. Like, do tough. She, I'm just like, imagine being under that massive of a microscope

because like you're dating Brad Pitt. That's everybody's like, oh, Brad Pitt or maybe not your generation because he's older, but, you know, he's kind of universally. He's just Brad Pitt. Yeah. He's Brad Pitt. Yeah. And so like I feel like no matter what, you can't win. Like she's obviously a beautiful woman. But I think every other woman out there is going to look at her under this microscope. of like, why does she? Why her? Why her? Yeah. You know? I mean, is that way you've been wondering? Why isn't it me? Yeah. It really is like an unfair level of scrutiny. Yeah. And it's just such a big decision to allow that into your life. And once you do, the issue is like, you can't go back. Right. You know, once you're public about it, like that, that's it, basically forever. Yeah. Yeah. Big decision to make.

So I'm like, I'll just wait until I'm married or something. Right. So you keep mostly like everything private. Like you're not talking about any of your personal things. I usually just like share stories, maybe like a year or two after they happen. I'm not really big on like naming names or whatever. Maybe someday. I also feel like if I were to like if I were to feel safer doing so, it would be easier for me.

But I think just like the position that I hold in the industry that I'm in, I'm just like, constantly under so much scrutiny. I'm like, I don't wish this upon anyone else, especially not someone that I love or am like a partner to. So what do you do to filter that scrutiny and make up for it internally? Because whether you have a boom in self-esteem and great self-worth, it's still going to hit, right? Yeah, no matter what. So what do you do to kind of filter that out of your life or how do you build up your self-esteem. I think just like really creating a life for myself outside of the internet and letting that be the foundation for like who I am and my confidence so that publicly or online if people attack me, it's like, oh, actually you're just attacking like this image of me.

That's why I like in comparison to you guys, like at least for me, I can almost like hide behind the name like Pockemaid like, you know, that's her. But me, even. on like this is who I am off screen you know it's like oh they're just attacking almost like not necessarily a character that I play because it's still me but I mentally create a bit of separation and I try to only take personally the things that actually happen to me personally like am I having troubles with a friend or something like that and I feel like in my personal life like there's like little to no drama it's all just online so you'll talk about drama like online because that do you find what do you find that people want from you the most

like what they want to hear about or like the stories you tell like is there something you lean into more? I think it just really depends on the person. Like the interesting thing is like in the industry that I'm in, there have been so many games that come out. And I've kind of like ridden, ridden, I rode all the waves for all the trends of all the games, right? And you will find that their communities are massively different. And so I almost feel like I've built pockets of people that know me in different areas. I've done like travel vlogging. I've done like at home blogging.

So I feel like there are a lot of people who kind of know me and they all want different things. So it's ultimately up to what I want to share or what kind of people that I want to connect to. Generally speaking, though, obviously people really like to bite into some drama. I recently actually came forward with a pretty intense story. and this guy covered it on YouTube and it had like 6 million views which is like frightening yeah like 6 million people

even knowing that something happened to you is kind of freaky but that's just took a story that you told well basically I shared a story about how there's this guy who worked at a gaming company and he falsified a romantic and sexual relationship with me like I've never met him

he made all of these screenshots and fake things up. And then he would pursue women in my community. Yeah. And like he would share these things with them. And then he would try to pursue them romantically. Like he made it seem like I was being like an abusive girlfriend to him. Again, never met him. Like don't speak to him like that at all. I've only like worked with him on like very professional things. And he was always like so professional to me. Yeah. So very like my mouth won't my mouth is just wide open. No legit insane situation. And these girls after like a year or two like they believed it for so long and then um a few of them pieced together that he was lying and they like came to me and my manager about it and we had all

discussed kind of going public just to kind of get it off our chest it was just such a weird situation but yeah i talked about that and what he did because it was so messed up and weird um and then this guy covered like clips of me talking about it and he spoke over that if that makes sense. Yeah, he kind of covered it as like almost like a news topic in a way. And yeah, his video got so many views. It was a little bit scary. But so you knew him. No, no, you hadn't ever met him. So I never met him in person. Yeah. But I would, like, he would help us with things online. Got it. Or like certain work related projects, whatever it was. Because he worked for this gaming company. So again, like the only time that he spoke to me or my manager was about like work related things.

And it was just so freaky because he was really, really professional and kind. He helped a bunch of other streamers with various things as well. And then we find out that like behind the scenes, he was doing the most heinous things. Wow. Yeah, like he edited our conversations to look like we were like going to meet up in a hotel. Again, like someone I've never met up with ever. Yeah. And he would share them with like fans of mine.

What? Yeah. And hit on him. Yeah. So yeah. Initially he'd be like like, you know, look at. these things that we do and falsify a relationship with me, but he would make me look like the bad guy. Like he'd say, yeah, she treats me really bad. Like, he makes me suicidal. And then he'd almost,

like, give these girls an opportunity to save him, you know, like be his savior. Because obviously he's the victim. Yeah, exactly. And then he would try to build a romantic relationship with them off of that. You get what I mean? Yeah. And he did the same thing with like seven different girls. Did any of them get romantic with him? Yeah. Yeah, which is so hurtful to find out in hindsight. This person was not only lying to me, not only lying about someone that I looked up to or enjoyed their content, but also he was doing this with so many other girls. It was so sad because it was really, really traumatic for all of these girls.

And then also just someone doing something so heinous. And then all of a sudden it became essentially like my responsibility to bear. like talk these girls through it, obviously, like try to give them as much support as I can. I had to contact the company that he worked at and get like an investigation started so that he was then fired. I had to make sure like he wasn't just hopping to another nearby company. Like this was like three or four months of handling someone else's like mistake essentially. It's like the Tinder swindler. Oh my.

Yeah. It's like you know. Actually. Yeah. That is so crazy. Very scary. I don't know if you guys have ever experienced anything like that throughout your careers. I mean, what? You have something on the time? No. I was going to say, I mean, obviously people have like faked profiles and fake all of that kind of stuff. But not like. For sure. But not like to actually like do screen grabs or screenshots of conversation. No, it's shocking which you can edit nowadays. Well, I mean, I don't know if you're comfortable talking about it. But I know that there was videos edited with your face on it. Not just me. No, like any girl in any male dominated space, not just streaming. I don't know if you guys know much about like ASMR.

We know what it is. We know what it is. Oh, I spray. But yeah, both within streaming, gaming, like being an online content creator and ASMR, all female creators in those spaces have that issue. And they have for years. that's why, like, when it kind of came to light recently, the whole, like, deep fake situation where people, like, put your face on girls doing, God knows what, yeah.

It was kind of weird for me because, one, this was actually after I found out about what this guy was doing. Yeah. And he was also sending these girls nudes that weren't me, but he was saying that they were me. But was it your face on? Or was it just body shots? I don't know. I think it might have just. in body shots, I'm not 100% sure.

Got it. Because I, like, for my own mental health, I didn't even look through the screenshots. My manager did. Good for you. But also, like, red flags, ladies. If a man is sending your naked pictures of another woman. Of another woman. Like, what is up with that?

Yeah. That is really... And it was weird because then he would then ask them for inappropriate photos too. Right. And it's so messed up. But frankly, like, I really held nothing against these girls because I could tell they were like, they were just so manipulated that whole time. And they really believed him. And I feel like he went out of his way to pick on girls who he felt like he could manipulate their insecurities.

You know, like the way that he spoke to them sometimes was like not nice. Like, you, he would just do the grossest stuff. Like he would even send photos of like girls on Tinder. And he'd be like, I could have her, but I'm going for you. Like, you know, he was not a good guy really, really just like digging into their insecurity. So yeah, I don't hold it against them at all. No. Oh my God. Yeah, back to the thing. But it was after I found out what this guy was doing and people started talking about like the deep fake stuff. And I just felt so like numb to it all because I'm like, I've been dealing with this for years. Like this is nothing new to me. I'm glad I guess that there's more awareness. But like, you know, hit me up when there's some actual change. Because just tired of it. Oh my God. Did you ever watch any of it or see any of it?

just turned a blind eye to it? No. No, because I feel like it's so detrimental to your mental health to like see yourself doing things you've never done. It's really, really messed up. Where the term Deepfake came from? I don't. It's been around for years. Maybe I feel like Rob's here. Rob, do you know what? Do you know, can we look it up? Okay. Why don't you look that up for us? I'm actually curious. But it's such a weird thing. Like, and I feel like it's more common now. keep hearing like yeah but that but in that context that is it's terrible i feel like yeah it just

really takes away your autonomy as like your bodily autonomy as a woman and that's so unfair is he being like what is he that's like he like he was fired but he kind of just like disappeared like there's nothing you can legally do or pursue him for and there is there nothing you can legally do by taking someone's face and putting him right like very little Is that possible? How is that possible? That is so damaging. I agree. You can sue someone for like using a name that's kind of remotely similar to something you have. Right. You can't like do anything. Try to get things taken down. Yeah. Because like they're using your image and your likeness. But it's so hard. And it's a lot of money. Yeah. To do anything more than that. Yeah. I remember my face was advertising toilet paper in India. I would much rather be advertising toilet paper in India than like making porn I didn't consent to. Yeah, for sure, 100%. It also just blows my mind.

Like, guys are really like, oh, if you don't like provide the porn that I want of you, I'll just make it. Huh? Exactly. Are we, wait, are we giving guys out their ideas right now? No. No, they've already had it. Exactly. Oh, my goodness.

It's yucky. What, like, as if there's not enough out there already. Exactly. You can get dang near everything. For free, too. Yes. For free. And it's like you really have to take my fucking face.

For someone who didn't want to. That's how you know it's, it's like an added layer of messed up because you know they didn't consent to it. Right. But I think that that's what's behind it. Yeah. It's like that's why they're doing it. And that's why I feel like they should be held liable somehow, ideally.

Right. Yeah, it's like a power thing. Like a control thing. Yeah. But like they put, does it look realistic? Like you can, you can't tell that it's like someone's face put on someone else's body or is like technology wise and like, I don't know. They can do a pretty good job. They can do a pretty good job? I'm asking because I think for most it's probably not like that amazing. But it's it's enough to get them what they want. But I think like it has gotten surprisingly good. That's so disturbing. I've even seen, you guys know like the Joe Rogan podcast? Yeah.

I've seen like a deep fake video of him promoting a company. So like they edited what he was saying and how he was talking. And then they made like an advertisement out of it to promote their company when he never did. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like for my pillow. Yeah. But it wasn't. But that's not what he said.

Yeah. Yeah, so. Oh, my God. The way that I view it is like, I try not to get too annoyed about it and just hope. Like before, my crumb of hope, sooner or later, like, there's going to have to be ways to stop this sort of thing. Especially once it gets into, like, the advertisement world. So, right. I'm hopeful.

Yeah, but I do think it's great that you didn't look at anything because that would be so. It's just weird. No, it's, yeah, it's beyond weird. But also it doesn't just affect you. And that's the thing is that it probably affects your family. Do your parents know that it happened? Thank God. My parents are not on the internet enough.

Oh, good Lord. They don't even know about it. I hope they don't listen to your podcast. I feel like, you know, even if I'll explain things to them, like I know they would never go out of their way to even look anything up. So that's like good enough for me, you know. Yeah. Good old Canadian. And they barely like look at the actual streaming service or Twitch or whatever.

Right. Like I'll hit like on your YouTube video. Aw. Thanks mom. You're like I'm going to go through Tim Hortons and I'm going to go home. Yeah. What effect is this had on your brother? Actually, my brother, we actually still play games together.

That's really cute. He's still in Canada, but that's like how we keep up with each other. And you stream it? Sometimes, yeah. Not always. Sometimes we'll just like do it casually. But yeah, I am so grateful that he has just been like very supportive the whole way through. He even like kind of vouched for me when I wanted to take a year off.

And he was like, no, like what she does is really legit. She can make money off of it, blah, blah, blah. And there's never been like any weird sibling rivalry, which yeah, I'm just really grateful for. Yeah, he's just like, you go. Good job. Sometimes I'll be like, do you have a spare headset? You can send me out. He's like, you got five bucks?

Yeah. I'm taking advantage of the purse. I'm like, you can have whatever you want, yeah. So what's your favorite game of all time? Actually, I think sell, though. Really? Yeah. Okay, I can, no, I can relate to that.

Really? I thought you're going to say something I wouldn't know anything about. What do you guys love to play? Super Mario Brothers won. I love Mario. Mario Party, Mario Kart. Like, Mario just made the best games to play with others. Yes.

I adore. Yeah. My daughter was playing Mario Kart. What are your thoughts on the guns? Oh, in video games. So this is tough. Like, I don't want my kid to play with the gun one. Like, the Call of Duty and stuff makes me feel really uncomfortable.

I've watched my nephew play. He's a massive gamer. Like, he's obsessed with it. But it makes me feel really icky about the guns. I want to know your thoughts on that. Happily, I will share. I feel like with most topics, you know, there has to be some nuance. For example, a little story, when I was maybe.

like 10, I started playing games where there are other people online. And I remember like, you know, you had like a little sword and I could kill like another person. And I remember one day, you know, usually I'm just fighting monsters. But one time I fought someone else and I like killed them online. And I ran upstairs to my mom. And I was like on the verge of tears. I was like, mom, like killed someone online. Just like, sweetie, it's okay. Yeah, so sorry, this is basically to say, I think it's important to kind of look at the overall picture, like how is your child interacting with the game? And, you know, how graphic is it? For example, Fortnite, even though it uses guns, you can tell by the visual elements.

Like, it's kind of fun, goofy. It's not a very, like, graphic game. Call of Duty can maybe lean a little bit more towards being more graphic and you can say like, you can play that at like 16 or maybe when you're a bit older. So I feel like it's a bit less about, you know, are there guns in the game or not? And more so how graphic is the overall game? Are they interacting with it in a violent way? Like, does their rhetoric become violent?

You know, or are they just like, woo, like I got killed or, you know? I think all of those little details matter much more than like. this game's okay or this game's not or just generally speaking shooting games are okay or not. Didn't we have like the duck hunting game going up and we had the actual like rifle that you would shoot at the TV? Right. So we look back at that and we're like, that was so fun. But then now you're a parent and you're like, holy fuck. Well also I mean there is a crisis going on with the young people and the you know mass shootings. I will say like I've been playing shooting games for like many maybe at least like five years. And even now, guns still scare the heck out of me like I can't.

Yeah. Yeah. I think another thing to consider is I feel like within gaming, there are certain like ideologies that are more common or more popular that shouldn't be. But I feel like it's not really about the games themselves. It's just about the industry, the demographic, that allows it for it to be more common there. Does that make sense? Yep. Like, I don't think it's the games that make people this way. It's just within this industry, it's been a lot more normalized. Right. The root of the thing isn't the thing. Yes. It's going to the root of that actual industry. Yeah. And what happens there. And like the history of it. Yeah, that's why like there are so many, especially casual gamers and so many, like,

calm, cool games. So I feel like gaming itself is not the issue, but that there are a lot of a adjacent issues that allow for it to or allow for bad ideologies to thrive there. I'm just so impressed with you and how, you know, your self-awareness and like... That's so sweet. No, but you really, you know, your messaging and like you're totally aware of like every aspect of what you do and what's around, you know, and how you handle it and just even not looking stuff. I'm really impressed with you guys. Oh gosh. As parents who are equally self-aware, and consider it, I really feel like that's the most important thing. And it gives me, there's

like so much faith and hope that the next generation, like, hopefully there will be some balance with how they interact with these devices. Because, yeah, we'll have to learn sooner or later. And I think the importance, the parents are like the most important factor. Like now that I'm in my 20s, I feel like every year is just me looking back on my childhood and like really appreciating that I had like very involved considerate parents. So yeah, that's like the biggest like human vouch you can have. Right. Caring that much about your kids.

Right. Support system. Well, that's where it starts. Yeah, it really is. And where it ends. No. No, that is where it starts. It does.

Absolutely. And it's just so fascinating and it's still trying to wrap my head around it. And like, like I said, like watching my daughter kind of get into it. And I mean, Any advice you can give as far as... I was going to be like, no, what console? No, that's not that question. Yeah, okay.

Well, what... Yeah. I want to know. Like, let's talk games. Like, seriously, I'm like, am I going to become a gamer? Because I'm kind of feeling like... I feel... Okay, the way that I view games is it's almost like books, you know?

You're never going to hear someone be like, I just hate. books, or at least not very commonly, I feel like there, you know how there's like a book for everyone, even if it's a magazine, right? There are games for everybody. You just have to find the right one. And I feel like for most casual gamers, especially for like the girlies, like there are so many fun mobile games. There's one that's called cats and soup. And I'm so obsessed. It sounds so silly, but it's just like, it's so beautiful and calming. Yeah, you have these little cats and cats and they make different ingredients. And then they all come together and make a soup. And then you just tap and you're selling the soup and you get more cats. And then you have this whole community

cats. I know. It sounds so silly. But the thing is like, it's calming. It's fun. That's why you hear so much about Candy Crush. It's accessible. You play it on your phone. It's cute. I play it on my game. Exactly. And now you'll have cats and soup. Like I don't feel like. Yeah, games. I hate when people gate keep it. And they're like, you need to be an intense. Gamer or you're not a real game. That's like so 2002, okay? Nowadays, everybody and anybody can game. And I think the Switch best console. There's so many cozy, cute games, even for your kids. Yeah. And I feel like it likely has parental control so you can decide which ones are able to play. It's really cute, handheld, take it on a flight with you. We have it. Oh, we have it. Yeah. We have a Switch, but Ruby borrowed it

I have to get it back. But always going on a plane ride, it's always searching for those games. So I'm serious. Cats and soup. That is so key. I'm very excited for our next flight. Yeah. There's one that's called like unpacking. And it's just like. I'm going to write that down. It's so cute. And yeah, the whole game is centered around like you're moving. And so you just like unpack things and organize them really neatly. I'm going to play that. No, but here's this. even cuter part. So like when you finish unpacking one room, for example, like your childhood room, the next level is like, oh, this is when you move out and go to college. The next level is like,

oh, this is your first apartment alone. Yeah. And then there's like a whole underlying storyline. But the main actual gaming aspect is just like organizing. I feel like that would be therapeutic. It is. No, I'm like really into this. You should do it. I should do it. No, like, you're alive. I know. I'm a meth. No, therapeutic games are the best. So I feel like gaming sometimes gets a bad rap because, like, people view it only one particular

way, but there's so much to it. One of my favorite tidbits and, like, an interesting thing that I've learned and used from, like, all my years of gaming is there have been some studies on, like, after you go through, like, a very traumatic event, sometimes they will give kids, like, um, real-time strategy games, which is like Tetris, you know, when you put the stuff to hit. You know, like kind of puzzle games. And that helps them so much with like preventing PTSD. What? Yeah. And so this might sound so silly. But when I know I'm just going through some shit, I always opt for puzzle games. They like really take my mind off of stuff. They feel so therapeutic. And instead of like sitting and

dwelling on the same thing all the time, I'll just like play a card game or a puzzle game or something on my phone and yeah it's really really nice like toucher candy crush yeah no candy crush as well i think i've been doing this game oh look at us we're like i love to hear it no it's not it's called impulse it's just an app but it has like little games and it'll do puzzles or word problems or you're like working your brain i need that because then you know what it does is it's games no it's games on here Okay. Oh, yeah. I mean, don't you, don't you question it. I will validate that is games. It's games. Yeah, you have to do all this fun stuff, but it keeps your brain moving and active and you can't think about all the things that are, you know, rattling around in there. Exactly. When you're just like overthinking too much or you're in a really sad state, boom. Put, and I will say depends on the game. Like I'm saying specifically like strategy puzzle games. Because there are also like online games. I never play those when I'm sad.

Where you're like playing with other people and everybody's so intense and getting angry. That's not what you play when you're sad. What's your go to when you're sad? There's this game called TFT. It's kind of like an auto bad. It's almost like a card game. But instead of cards, you have like little monsters. And you like your little team of monsters plays against someone else's little team of monsters.

And like you kind of just like level them up. It is technically, I think, a real-time strategy game. Okay. Yeah. Just anything that'll kind of like puzzle solving in a way. And so now I understand going into engineering. Yes, I do feel like that was very related. I'm like so into optimization.

That's why I like all these algorithms and content creations. Well, help us make it for good things, please. Exactly. Yeah. Actually, have you guys ever watched the social dilemma? Yes. Yes. When it came out, I think maybe like almost two years ago, it gave me a midlife crisis.

I mean, like, think about it, right? This documentary comes out and it's just talking about how detrimental social media usage is. And I'm like, well, that's how I make my living. And so for a while, I felt almost like disconnected from it and like really second thinking everything. And then I came to the conclusion that like, clearly this is something that's not going away. Right. And so I'd rather try to be a force for good at the very level. least, then have just like someone else take my place and not even consider these types of things that might impact their audience. So at least I can hope to have like a positive voice in the space instead of just like, oh, I can't interact with it at all. Yeah. I believe in my heart

you're going to. Stop. That's so stupid. You are. The way you just looked at me. She has those eyes. Yeah. It's like she meant to you know. She did. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's true. It seems like you have a calling for something bigger than where you started. And that's really inspiring. I do feel that way. It's just like, you know, having faith that the right things will unfold. Yeah. Yeah.

And even conversations like these opportunities to talk to you guys, people are actually interested in discussing these topics. Like even this is huge to me. And I hope whoever will listen will like have some kind of takeaways or it'll allow them to maybe make better choices in their day to life. Like, that's really, I feel like the thing that I enjoyed the most about content creation is just, like, having a positive influence on someone else's life. They come back to you and they're like, you help me make this change. What could be more fulfilling than that, you know? Not a thing. Exactly. You exude such positivity and light and it's just, it's infectious and that's... I'm blessed you. Nobody can see, you know, why everyone just wants to watch you and hear you

and everything else. What do you like to do outside of your work? You're going to laugh. My biggest guilty pleasure is reality TV. Amazing. I think that's why I'm like, no, I could never. Because I have such a viewer relationship with it. I enjoy it so much.

I'm like, no, that'll never like be my thing. I just love to watch. Yeah, getting together with my girlfriends. Oh, which ones? Which shows? Let's hear it. It's my. to, by the way, so you're in safe space here.

Oh, thank you. Thank you. Honestly, I feel like I've binged everything on Netflix. Yeah. The most recent thing that I finished is the Real Housewives of Miami, like the latest season. We watch The Real Housewives a lot. We started watching The Bachelor. We're not caught up. But that one is...

I kind of... I couldn't do Zach. I couldn't do it. Do you feel the same way? Or we can't be negative? Oh, no, no, no, no. We can. Do you mean like you're not feeling Zach? Yeah. I could not feel Zach less than I do. No, literally, like, he's giving bland piece of toast. No offense.

I don't know why. When they picked him, I was like, I didn't understand. And I feel bad, Zach. I'm sure you're a very nice guy. He likely is, yes. And I tried to watch the first episode and I was like, I can't get behind this. So instead it's more so about like, oh, what's going to happen with the girls? Yeah, yeah.

There's the girls. So I might try it for that. I haven't yet. This is also my first season of The Bachelor. What? Yeah. Oh, this is not the season to start. This is definitely not...

It sucks. I mean, at least I'm enjoying watching with my friends. Yeah. I also don't have other bachelors to compare to. So I'm like, are they all like this? Oh, no. Because I feel like everything he says is just PR, PR, PR, PR. And like, you're doing a great job, sweetie.

But I also am not getting to know you. Right. Like, you're saying... You're not saying anything wrong, but you're also not saying anything. You're not saying anything. Dude, the girls will be pouring their hearts out. Like, I'm talking, like, trauma dumping. like the saddest stuff and he'll be like, I'm so sorry, but I'm glad you're here today.

Oh, my God. And it also makes me sad because my girls would be like so in love. They're like, he listened to me. After a day. You just are more. Yeah. He listened to me. Are they really in love, though?

They think they are. They really think they are. I've never seen an episode. She's never watched it. And I'm always talking about it. You should. Just to understand. It's a ride.

It is. And like not Zach. Like his is kind of like the kiddie ride, but like the other ones are like real roller coasters and it's entertaining and like I believe in love. And so sometimes I totally. And some have stayed together. You said it like it's Santa. She said it. Well, it's only me. I believe in love. I know. It's like this crazy thing. Is that because I question it sometimes. But yeah. No, I could not get behind him. But I'm going to make her watch. But not his. So if you're going to do it, I would say even go back. Like happily. I'll recommend when I got to think about it. Kardashians? Of course.

Yeah. But like done. Yeah. You know? Been done. Yeah. Right. And there's.

Did you watch the perfect match? The new one on Netflix? That's what I was going to say. Spice. Yes. We made my girlfriends watch all of that together. So I have the last like two episodes to watch. But then that was.

Is it good? It's spicy. Okay. Yeah. It's not my favorite ever. Yeah. Like I way prefer love is blind. over the perfect match.

FYI. People out there. That and the Ultimatum. If you're going to watch that, I heard that's so good. You need to watch the ultimatum number one because it's like the perfect mix of, oh, this is like really real, real love stories and so much drama. Yeah. Perfect match.

Give an ultimatum. What's the premise? Oh my God. The ultimatum, the premise is that you have all of these couples that are honestly on the brink of breaking up, but also. mainly because one of the people like wants to get married and the other person is like not sure. Yeah. And so you have let's say like four or five couples who like let's say the girl or the guy. They're like, I want to get married but my partner's unsure. So I gave them this ultimatum.

We get married or we break up. Okay. They all come together and then they date each other. Oh. Oh. Uh-huh. And that it gets crazier. They date each other They pick a new partner They stay together for like a week or two So they're dating a whole new person for a week or two They go back to their old partner for a week or two And then they have to choose

Am I committing and getting married Or are we breaking up? Yeah This sounds fun Oh I'm watching that Are I going to that or am I watching that? Season two I'll be watching either way

No that's a good one I'm definitely downloading up I think that one is, oh, it's just, it's so intense, very entertaining. Perfect match is like, just drama, not much like love connection. No, no, but I have to finish it and see what happened. But do they get to pick which partner? Who? The ultimatum? Yeah. She's still on the ultimatum. Yeah, do they just get placed with people? No, no, no. Like, they all date each other and then they essentially, like, they pick someone. I'm really attracted to this person. We should match up. And then, like, literally live together. Like, they.

They pretend that they're married for two weeks to another person. I don't see, I have the hardest time like sleeping. Sleepovers are like not something I do, like when I'm dating or whatever. I don't like sharing my bed and face up my morning routine. And like you're like, I'm like, I'm just casually do it for two weeks. Yeah, even perfect match. We're like, okay, you're matched. You're sleeping in the same bed.

I'm like, dude, I don't want to share my bed. I just met you. That was kind of controversial actually. Oh, yeah? Yeah, because people online were saying like, you don't even explain the premise to these people and then you force them to couple up and sleep together in the same bed like on night one and it honestly just like provides the groundworks for potential like assault or just like uncomfortable situations all this stuff they have to know i think they know they're doing

something but they actually don't know that really like going to be sleeping in the same bed as someone else yeah i'd be like i'm out yeah well that is wrong that is that so you read all the online stuff, like all the comments and stuff? Honestly, it's just TikTok. Like, I don't know how. My TV speaks to my phone, but they know what I watch. And then, yeah, I saw a lot of people being like, how did the producers allow such a thing? Like, isn't that weird? And I think one of the girls, Francesca. The one who's hopping from one person to the next. Yeah. She actually spoke out, I think, on a podcast and said something along the lines of like she really wasn't comfortable. just like choosing someone to sleep in the same bed.

Really? Yeah, on the first day. Because she's like, my past reality TV experiences, I felt revolved a lot around whether or not someone wanted to sleep with me. So that's not something I wanted to do right off the bat. Also, I'm paraphrasing. Could be kind of wrong. But I believe it was her who mentioned something of the like.

Right. Yeah. Well, I know she was like not going to sleep with someone because that's what she did on whatever first reality show she did or something. Listen, I get really invested in. I feel like that's also a brain off moment. I just like those puzzle games, brain off. Reality TV, brain off.

Oh, yeah. That's what I need to do. If I don't have my kids, sometimes you can't like unwind. Let's watch them. You know how they say like you are what you think. You know, you create what you believe. All your thoughts. My husband walked in the room the other day and he's like, I'm reading this really

motivational book and I'm going to be so amazing. And he's like, and I think you're going to get murdered. What? All I do is watch the documentaries on all the murders. He's like, you're taking that in all the time. I was like, okay, I got to stop. The murder mystery documentaries. Yeah, that's what I'm like, you know, out there watching Perfect Match and she's watching, like, how to catch a murder or whatever.

Yeah. That's a TV show. Some of those are really interesting. Like, I feel like the series tend to be really, really good on Netflix, especially. Stolen youth. Have you seen it? No. I can't.

See, I can't do that because my brain, like... No, but this one's more about, like, a cult that happened from Sarah. I think it was at Sarah Lawrence College. Oh, the Sarah Lawrence one. Yeah. Yeah, I could do that. Did you guys watch the one about... I don't know if it was called, like, Our Father?

Oh, yes, I watched that. Yeah. Which one was that? I'll just tell you the premise because all the trailers basically tell you the whole story. But essentially there was a doctor. like an OB-GYN. And he was known to be really good with like solving fertility issues. Long story short, what he would do when a woman would come in with a fertility issue.

And he was saying that he was like inseminating them with their husband's sperm. He was actually using his own. And they didn't find out for like maybe a 20 plus years when all these kids were born and they did those DNA tests. The 23 and me. Yeah, and they're like, you have 15 siblings. What? Yeah. Are you serious?

Yeah. And they all, so they started connecting online with each other, which is insane. Like, love the internet for this. Yeah, they started connecting with each other online and realized, oh, my God, we're all siblings because all of our mothers went to the same doctor. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's like, oh, I promise you'll get pregnant.

Yeah. Dude. But why? Like, what's the motivation? there. Some weird, sick, like, I need to rule the world. I think also like religious. Like he was trying to spread his sea. His sea. Yeah. That's the kind of stuff you'd hear in gaming, honestly. Oh, yeah. Gross, gross, gross, gross, gross. Oh, man. That's crazy. You watched that one? I watched that one. I watched pretty much every one of them. I will say, I feel like those are kind of like

easier watches because it's like, what in the world? As opposed to people like dying. Yeah. But it's still interesting. That's what I mean? Like even Tinder swindler. I watched all those. Me too. But the murdering, I'm like, okay, I'm going to get murdered. Like, I just can't disassociate. I feel like I'm just too scary.

I will say. Yeah, but it's not scary. If someday you guys ever get bored of reality TV. Sometimes you ever get murdered. God forbid. I hope not. But if you ever get bored of like reality TV, I just need something new. K dramas are never.

Next level. Really? Particularly, I would recommend to you guys, one called Little Women. Okay. I think it's like my favorite show maybe. It was like the storytelling was amazing. It tells a story of three sisters who grow up impoverished, like don't have a lot of money. I don't want to reveal too much, but they come into money in some ways.

And so K dramas are also just like shot beautifully. You see the most gorgeous outfits. Like when they portray like they're really rich. But the storylines were so captivating and interesting. I adored that one. And I think it was on Netflix. I don't know if it still is. But yeah, it was so good.

I love recommendations. I always need shows to put like to watch on my flights. It feels like if you had like just really good storyline with like a sprinkle of reality TV, that's kind of what K. Jail almost feel like to me. Oh, yeah? Yeah. I don't know why. I love that.

I love it. Someone told me yesterday that something really good to do for your mental health to make you more present is to do everything different for a day. So if you wash your body with your right hand, wash it with your left. If you watch a particular type of show and a genre, don't watch that, watch something completely different that you would never pick. Really? Yeah, it's all to get you present. So I think K dramas are moved. That's so interesting.

Isn't that cool, though? Like listen to a different genre of music. listen to, you know, go to a different grocery store, do everything different. Right. For a whole, I think it was like a whole week. And it's like a disruption exercise. Like a mental shock almost. Yeah.

That makes, yeah, you're here. Total sense. That's it. That's it. It does. Yeah. Let's try it. Yeah.

I know. I'm like, what can I do different? What can do I use to? I don't know. Yeah. What can do? I watch my body with. That's making me.

I use my foot. Yeah. Like do every. single thing different for a week. All right. I'm going to drink this with my left hand. Yeah. Let's hold each other accountable. And you know, I was watching a show where someone was like, it's a, it's a fiction, it's not reality, whatever. And he's like, whenever I feel worried, I just start making, I start listing things. And it helps calm me down. And I was like, I bet that could work. And I'm going to try it. I haven't tried it yet. I think that's what you do all day. Making lists. She's always listing things.

No, but I mean like, okay, the, you know. Yeah. This sounds like you, Rachel. Okay, no, maybe that's why I spoke to me. And you guys are like, I don't know what. That's not going to work for me. We were driving today. And she's just like, I'm busy.

I'm like, I'm not talking to you. I wasn't talking to her. I just like. She's exclaiming it. Get it off your chest. There's like many little, like, aligned people in my brain. Well, recently actually, that's been helping me with that. I think it's called.

analog and it's this little almost like a to-do list but it has a cute little stand and a place for your pen and all these cards so every day you grab one i'm so excited yeah hear me out every day you grab one and it's just a stuff you want like you need to get done today only just for today like you're doing the podcast you need to do laundry you need to do whatever and when you finish it you can circle it or you can do a half circle if it's partially done you can can do an arrow if it's moving it to tomorrow. There's also like, there's a card for like Sunday, like things I want to do, but just not for today. And things for like up next. So things you're moving to the next day. The whole idea is like only focusing on what you need to do today.

Because day to day, you know, we're thinking about our whole lives. I need to get my legs shaved next Thursday. I need to do this. Today I need to do the podcast. Ooh, laundry's piling up. I should do that today or tomorrow. You know? Yeah. So it's just focus on the today. Everything. else you can put on a card for like the next day or for someday. And it just helps me kind of stay on track. I love that. I need it. Where do I get it? It's called analog. I think just like A-N-A-L-O-G. Look it up. I have a lot of things that I'm writing down today. And do you have someone that shapes your legs? I was going to say wax your legs, but you know, maybe shave them next Thursday. Honestly, I get so lazy with my legs because people don't really see them that much.

Very good. I love it. You have just been such. a delight and so much fun to talk to and to share everything and let us peek into this world that I know nothing about that your husband. No, I'm an open book. Thank you guys for having me. I wish I got to hear more from you guys. I feel like I talk too much. I'm sorry.

No, that's what you're here for. That is what you're here for. Sorry, what did you say? The Two Lies and a Truth. Is that what we're doing? Rob's going to love this. Oh, Rob's going to love this. You're out?

He's out. Okay, so we'd like to end with the game and we're trying to switch it up and we have had a problem like trying to master this one. So we each say two truths and a lie and we all have to guess which one is. Okay. The lie. Two truths. Yeah. Okay.

So are you going to go first? Oh, you want me to go first? Yeah. Okay. I'm allergic to fish. I am dyslexic and I. I need to get my wisdom teeth removed. No way the wisdom teeth.

I would be impressed. I got mine removed at like 21. Maybe the lies you're allergic to fish. You know everything about me. I know the answer. That's so cute. Yeah, she knows. I can't do this game with her.

I'm not allergic to fish. Yeah, so you're right. You were right. That was the lie. Ding, ding, ding, ding. Wow. Yeah. Oh, my God. Let's go. I was like, let's go. Let's go. Because I feel like it was the simplest. It was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Right. Wow. You got it right. Oh, my God. Yeah. That's hard. Do you have yours? Okay. Okay. I'm missing in Oregon. I was born in Africa. And I speak four languages. Which one's the law?

Well, I know where you were born. I know that's true. You Googled me. Fair enough, fair enough. We do our research. Yeah, you're a podcast. You should. So you're either missing an organ.

I think you have to be missing in Oregon. Because how could you come up with that that quick? That's so creative. I know. I mean, that was my thought too, but I don't know. Should we go with that? We're going to go. I mean, you might speak four languages.

I know. We're going to go with the lie as the four languages, even though I think you. absolutely could speak four languages and you definitely speak French in English because you're from Quebec. So which one's the lie? Shit. It's two truths, one lie, right? Yes.

I know. I know. We're working out of the case here. I know. I know. We are. We fucking up every time. I think the lie is that you speak four languages.

What's your answer? How about I go with the other? Well, but I don't. Go with your gut. Yeah. What you really feel. Oh, you think the lie is that. she speaks for languages. I think she's really missing in Oregon. Okay. I'm going to go with

the lie as you're missing in Oregon, just so we cover both bases even though I don't necessarily believe it. Yeah. I respect, I respect it. Okay, so what's the lie? You're right. I don't speak for language. Right. I definitely felt that too. Missing my appendix. You're making your appendix. Yeah, I was going to say, there's no way someone could just like on the fly. I'm missing. No, because I was like, that's so good. It has to be true. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay. So mine. Two truths and a lie. I got my driver's license when I was 16. Ooh.

I don't like mushrooms. And I have been pregnant six times. Y'all give me a hard one. How could I ever guess how many times you're pregnant? I actually think the lie is when you got your driver's license for some reason. That could be so off. I'm sorry. I'm going to go with that one.

I love that you think I've been pregnant six times. It's not none of my business. Yeah. No, that is the lie that I have not been pregnant six times. So I did get my driver's license when I was 16. And I hate mushroom. I was legit. I was like, I can tell by the way you said it, you're like, I don't like mushrooms.

I hate mushrooms. I mean, she thinks about it often. Really? It's like offensive that we like them. Do you like them? I think they're okay. I mean, we as humans, not. No, I thought you're at you too.

I, you know. Okay, I can deal with that. Super random thing. Yeah. But I saw you sipping on that matcha. I give you a product recommendations. I want to give you one too. If you ever like to make match at home,

I have been obsessed with this little machine called like a Susan Macha. And it is, I've been drinking Masha since I was like 16 or 17. And it makes the best at-home Macha cup. Is that the one you got me? I have it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's amazing. I saw Rob, like, nodding back. I didn't know what it was called.

He takes his Masha very seriously. Me too. It's the only one that makes a decent cup. Most other Masha at home things are not it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. That's a coincidence. I know. You got it for me. Of course he did. And of course. Well, thank you for being so open.

Thank you for having. And thank you guys for like being so interested in this space, especially in the way that it relates to your kids. I think that's so, so sweet. Aw. Absolutely. Yeah. And you're so sweet. So thank you again. Thank you. We should have a website and on the website should be a little section of restaurant recommendation. of Rob's restaurant recommendations. Like every city you go in, you can update it. I think that would be a great idea. And I think people would be really grateful. I agree.

I would because it's like there was an app someone was telling me about, have you heard of, well, you have to like be invited, like amigos or something? And it's like people who really know, like they travel. But it's like all the places you travel, all the best things there kind of thing. Like what you're saying. Yeah.

I mean, I normally, like, I try to just look for like James Beard, Michelin. Like, but it does depend on the level of food because there are restaurants that are good that are not necessarily Michelin-Star restaurant. Yeah, and you always know where to get everything. So it'll be like, oh, if I want a smoothie or a sandwich or dumplings or tacos, like those things aren't going to be necessarily hyped up anywhere. Mm-hmm. Right.

I think that this is going to happen. We have a side hustle for you. Rob. Make us a website, Olivia. Make us a website, Rachel. Yeah, that's my one. I want Rachel to make us the website, actually. And then I will add it.

What would you do if you had to make a website, Rachel, can you walk us through your process? I would Google, how to make a website for dummies. And it would probably give me a step by step. A Wix website that you would sign up for. What's a Wix website? Like Wikipedia? No, it was like Squarespace before Squarespace. I don't even know what Squarespace is, Rob.

All right, well, like a web website builder. Could you leave this in my hands? Yeah. What was your favorite video game growing up? Super Mario Brothers. Number one. Original, yeah. Rob?

I liked Mario card a lot. But it was like age dependent. I liked Sonic a lot. Sonic and then when the Nintendo 64 came out, I remember Mario World being really cool. Loved it. Not first, but actually using like 3D worlds that year in. Oh, and GoldenE. What's that?

James Bond, GoldenEy. I remember that being big. I had a boyfriend that played it. I didn't play it, though. That was a great game. Yeah. You guys will like this. There was a period in high school.

You would go to the internet cafe where they had better internet so they could play a computer game. I'd do that occasionally. This game Counterstrike. You would go to a cafe to play it? I had a friend that was really into it. One of my good friends in high school

was really into playing Counterstrike. And yeah, you'd go to the internet cafe You'd pay like $8 an hour to use the computer there because they had the T1 servers. They had the better internet. And you could play Counterstrike there online against other people. You did that, right, Rachel? Yeah, totally.

You know what I loved in elementary school? There was a time of day in the classroom where they would let you play Oregon Trail. Do you remember that? Yeah. I loved it. This is very similar. But it was still like the black and like it was only green, right, like font.

You know, like super old school. Oh, I'm old. People nowadays live to watch people play video games. So I don't understand. Elliot, that's his favorite thing on earth to do. And then my nephew was here the other day. And he's in his early 20s and he's in a Japanese class because he's going to Japan next month. And I walk in the living room in the morning.

He slept over. I'm like, what are you watching? He's like, oh, I'm just so fortunate. I found this streamer that streams in Japan. So he's listening and watching the video game streamers in Japanese to learn Japanese. Oh, my gosh. But I'm like, that is such an interesting thing. Like, that's what you would do to learn a language.

I mean, he's also taking a class, but. It's immersive. That's like when you go and. Don't they say the best way to learn a language is just go live there? Yeah. Right. But I just mean that's so part of their culture in this age group watching people play video games that that's one way he could understand.

Wait, was that so cool? Like you were the cool aunt because you got to meet and speak to Pokeyman? Yeah. I was like, do you know who Pockeman is? And he was like, of course. And I was like. And Olivia, who doesn't? Yeah.

I was like, we got to talk to her. And he was like, shut up. You had a pokey mane on? No way. That is so amazing. And my other niece and nephews flipped too. I mean, good for her, dude. Like, seriously?

I just am in awe of pokey. I think that that's pretty awesome. Like, these kids are fucking obsessed. And Andrew knew everything about her. He was like, she's gone through a lot and she's dealt with it really well and, like, has a good attitude. He was telling me stories about how there. There was this one guy who, like, talked bad about her in some way. And then they had a confrontation, but then her attitude about it was, like, super chill.

And she ended up, like, forgiving him and becoming his friend. And she sets such a good example for, like, an elevated way of being. And I was like, awesome. So cool. That's rad. Yeah. Here's something else, unrelated, Olivia. Wait, Rachel, you didn't tell us your favorite video game besides the Oregon Trail.

Yeah, Oregon drip I love Mario Mario Kart Super Mario I love Tetris Tetris I loved I still love Tetris I still do

I have it on my phone for sure This is Olivia You'll appreciate this story So Breyer's Briar has one of her Little best friends Ariya and

I picked her up to take them to Girl Scouts on Sunday And Arya had sunglasses All in And she was really upset You know And her mom

told me like, I'll tell you about it later, whatever. We get in the car. And Aria's very expressive and communicative. She's like, do you want to know why I'm wearing sunglasses? I was like, yeah, are you? Because it was raining. I'm like, yeah, why? She's like, because I've been crying so much and I don't want anyone to see.

And apparently she was watching Freaky Friday. And she wanted her hair. Which one? Lindsay Lohan? Yeah. Yes. And she wanted her hair to match the character. So I guess she took scissors and she cut the front of her hair.

Like, but it was just one side. But her hair was half up, so we couldn't see it. Okay. And so I'm talking to her. And I'm like, all right, well, where is it? What's the length? And I'm like, okay, Aria, you're either going to have a bob or a lob. And I was showing her all these pictures or whatever.

And Breyer goes, oh my gosh, Mom, Aria. Auntie Lulu has a bob. Aria. You're going to have a bob like Auntie Lulu. And Aria is like, Rachel, does Auntie Lulu have a bob? Bob? That's so cute. I know.

She's like, I'm going to have a bob like Auntie Lulu and your Auntie Lulu to Aria too. Oh. Did you tell them how much Olivia hates her hair? Yeah. I left that part out, but it was like so cute the exchange. And so now your Auntie Lulu to her too. That's adorable. And, you know, she's going to have to give it a minute, okay, to get used to it.

No, she did. By the end of the day, she took it. She showed it to us. We were loving it. When I picked them up from school the next day, she had her hair down with the front half just chopped, just owning it. She looked pretty badass. Yeah, that's really common.

Oh, yeah. And I was like, but there's a lesson to learn here, right? We don't cut our own hair. I was like, Breyer, you're not allowed to cut your hair. Do you have any updates, Olivia, on how you feel about your hair? Because it's been a few weeks. It's been a few weeks. I'm better with it.

I'm better with it. I'm still not like in love. It's natural today, huh? Yeah. It's cute. Yeah. Okay. Well, her brother didn't love it, so that didn't help.

He sure didn't. A regression in your progress. Yeah, I'm like, he's like, you cut your hair. I'm like, do you like it? He's like, I definitely like girls with long hair. I was like, cool. Well, it's a good thing you're not trying to make your brother be attracted to you. Yeah.

No, but I would. still like him and I like it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know what people keep writing me telling me? What? That I sound like Maya Rudolph.

Really? And that is the biggest compliment to me. Because I love her. I got to listen to her to hear it. Just thought I'd share that with you. I appreciate. And I'm going to listen and compare. She's married to P.T. Anderson, isn't she?

Yeah. That's a cool couple. Mm-hmm. That's a power couple right there. Yep. Yes. Sure is. Paul Thomas Anderson kind of looks like Jeff.

Does he? This couple could be you. Look at this photo. I mean, I see what you mean. I see what you mean. Oh, this is a great question we got from our audience. What? Cohabitating adjustments.

How do you deal with things that are annoying in the beginning of living with someone? Like their traits, your pet peeves. animals, all those different things that you have to adjust to when you first move in with someone. She said she just moved in with her boyfriend and realized that everything he was doing was kind of driving her little bonkers and like his animals and everything. Hmm. Yeah. I guess they're going to have to break up.

See, I think that that's completely 100% normal and you've got to allow like a one to three month grace period when you're you first move in with someone in order to acclimate to them because I think everyone has weird things they do. And in the beginning, it's going to seem exaggerated or inflamed. But if you give it time, oftentimes it will pass. I remember the first three months of living with Jeff. I was like, oh, I don't know if we can do this. He's always brushing his teeth. It's always brushing his teeth. You know? It kind of goes along with like that relationship thing where you're like, oh, give it six months before you really feel like you know someone.

It's all a trial period. Yeah. How do you have those conversations, though? Because you're not going to have that conversation right out of the gate. You're going to seem like a controlling psychopath if you're like, I need you to do this, this, get rid of your dog, keep them out of the room. How do you have those conversations, Olivia? I think there's a fine line between building resentments. and establishing a powerful communication in the home, right?

Because if you kind of like overlook everything, you're going to take each one of those things you overlook, you're taking a tiny little pebble and putting it in a bag, right? And then all of a sudden someone does one thing, like leaves the cabinets open and you snap because it's not that little thing. It's all the things that have been annoying you, right? So I think the first thing that you have to do,

is try and change your perception on it. Yeah, I think that that's been important for me. In what way? Cohabitating. Of just like something being annoying, but like then your partner is doing something else that makes my life easier. So I'd rather deal with...

Give us one annoying and one easier. Give us an example. Like cleaning up the dish. in the sink. Like, I don't mind doing that so much. And I'm fairly quick to, like, as I'm cooking, things are getting put away. I don't leave things out. And Natalie's the opposite with that where, like, she's cooking everything that she's taken

out is still out until everything's done. Mm-hmm. It drives me nuts. But it's also, like, I don't mind doing the dishes. and like she changes the bed sheets all the time. It's a tradeoff. That's totally fine. I haven't had to change our bed sheets and wash her sheets in four years because she takes

her that. That's good to appreciate that. Olivia, you give an example of each. Well, first of all, that's a great example of you're looking for the ways they are supporting you instead of the ways they're not. Right. Right. And it's not worth a big fight over like.

Right. dishes. Like that's something that, yeah, it's annoying, but. Yeah, because they're going to do things that annoy you. Like Jeff would always leave his socks out. And I like everything super tidy. But like if we were sitting on the couch and he took his socks off the next morning, they'd be on the couch. So I would throw them in the dirty clothes. And he'd be like, where are my socks? And I'd be like in the dirty clothes. Right? And I used to get annoyed. Like, why am I picking up his socks? And he'd be like, where are my socks? And I'd be like in the dirty clothes. Right? And I used to get annoyed. Like, like, why am I picking up his socks all the time. And I would get annoyed and I'm like, I'm the only one

feeling this, you know? And I think another part of it is like you're expelling more energy being annoyed about it. Exactly. Then it is for you to pick up those fucking socks and put them in the hamper. Exactly. And so then I started changing my attitude about it and being like, you know what, is it really that big of a deal to throw his socks in the hamper? Right. I'm proving my own point. It's really simple. Just throw him in the hamper, right?

And if he gets annoyed and can't find his socks, then he knows he needs to move faster. Same thing with like leaving a water glass out. Like, I've got it cleaned up before someone can finish their drink. I hate that. You hate when someone does that? I'm the same way. My mom does that all the time. Like, I will literally have my water.

glass and if I go to drink it, it's gone. Yeah. Natalie will have like four drinks out at a time around the house. And I'm like, all right, well, this coffee's been here for three hours. I'm going to go dump this out and put on the dishwasher. You know what always irked me?

Hmm. What towel's on the bed? Yeah, you got to hang up a towel. Yeah. Don't take your shower towel after or bath towel after you've used it and put it on the bed. No. Big pet pee. Or the floor. Yeah. Or the floor. Yeah. Or the

the floor, but the bed is way more annoying. Oh, see, I'd rather it on the bed than the floor. Oh, no, no, it gets the bed wet. A wet bed? No. Yeah, but like, if I walked in and there was wet towels on the floor, I would probably flipple it. And your socks got wet? Oh, I hate wet socks. I hate wet socks. Versus like your comforter that you're going to use in six hours is a little wet on top and you're not really going to feel it anyways once you get into bed? Not as mad at that. I don't like wet towels on the bed. Sorry, guys.

really ganging up on Rachel here. Yeah. You know what else? I find really annoying. Is it Jeff? Never. I mean never. This guy is so noncommittal about this. He never puts his clothes in the dirty clothes. He hangs them halfway over. And I'm like, why?

Like just put him. Might wear that shirt again. He's like, well, I don't know if they're really dirty yet. Like, I just wore it once. Well, then fold it and put it back. That's what I'm saying. But then those are the things that I started to let. go of because I like sleeping in in the morning and he gives me more of that or he, you know,

it's like there is always trades. And I think that that's the most important thing is whatever you focus on grows, right? So if you can focus on the way your partner is awesome, you're going to grow more of that. If you keep thinking of all the things being annoying, that's all you're going to see. I hear her mind off. When we talked to Nick, remember, he was saying he can't close a cabinet. I'm like, why can't he close a cabinet? Same with Jeff.

You know what? I don't like when he takes the carton of anything out of the fridge and drinks out of it. When Jeff does that? Yeah, when Jeff does that at your house. Yes. No, just when a guy, like I've had partners to do that, and I'm like, why? Other people are drinking out of that, man. Yeah, that's gross.

Like pouring it into a glass. You don't do that, Rob? I feel like every guy does that. No, I don't do that. I know. That's what I'm saying. It's like there's been a few that do that. I've caught Jeff doing that so many times.

Right. It's like just pour it in a glass. I like drinking things out of glasses. Of course, Rob. It's actually disgusting. Only fine china I will drink liquids out of, so. It is disgusting. It's like sharing cereal with someone.

Like, you just don't do it. I know we've talked about it. Or how my brother took a drink out of my straw today. And that's gross. Yeah. You could taste this toothpaste on the straw. Bull. Stop it.

It's gross. Like spearmint macha now? What the fuck? So yeah. Three months. Yes. Give them three months of a grace period. Try and collect all the evidence that they're awesome and supportive of you.

and after time, hopefully it'll dissipate it. And if not, it's a conversation. Yeah, and try to reframe it. Absolutely. Reframe things a little bit. Mm-hmm. Because everyone's going to be a little annoying. Yeah, like I'm super messy.

I'm sure that they're actually doing some annoying things too. Right. It goes both ways. Good advice, Olivia. Okay, here's another question. What is the difference between relationship, compromise, and compromising your morals? Buh. I think I'm going to have you take the lead on this one, Olivia.

I'd like to hear Rob first. Relationship, compromise, and compromise? I mean, what does that mean? It means, so say you're in a relationship with someone and they're like... I'm against abortions? Or like, this is just the way I talk, right? And maybe they use certain language that doesn't sit right with you. Where is the compromise?

Is there a compromise there? or would you be compromising your morals to accept that? Yeah, I mean, I think there's some lines that, like, you shouldn't be willing to cross with a partner. For me, like, overt racism towards someone or, yeah, like, that's something that I wouldn't tolerate in a partner. But, yeah, I guess it's all. all the spectrum of different things from a morality standpoint that you have to kind of decide where

your boundaries and lines are. Exactly. I think that's the most important thing is first you need to know what your morals are. If you're not clear on your morals, how are you going to stick to them? Right. And so some of those things are going to be like, what is your tolerance about lies? Like, are you okay with white lies or is that a moral thing for you that you're not? You're not okay with lying in a relationship or, you know, stealing or cheating or anything that compromises your morals is up to you.

And nobody can determine what those are for you. And I think this gets really tricky if you're talking about, like, political things of, like, where you're willing to draw the line or something that is more common that people in relationships are dealing with now. Yeah, but how do you feel about having different morals than your partner in a relationship? I mean, I think some of the core morals are necessary, like even in a friendship to share. Like there may be some things that you can leave off limits that you don't talk about that.

Like my brother and I are that way. He has different morals than I do, and there's certain subjects that I know I can't talk to him about. Do you say you just don't? Um, I guess. Rachel. I struggle with it a little bit because, well, like, I know relationships where you started off

on the same page morally, and over time, the other person changed their views. Now, I know one example of that where they wound up divorcing, and I know another example where they wound up staying together, but just they don't talk about it. For me, it would just depend on how the relationship started, like what, you know, if you were aligned. Our favorite go-to.

It's all circumstantial. It's harder for me to say, because I'm not currently in one. So, but, you know, morals are super important, yeah, and they had completely opposite morals. Or different morals. It depends to, I think,

I think it depends on how, like, abrasive they are. It depends what they are. Yeah, and if they're, like, open to hearing someone else's argument or just... Right. ...and still can think what they think, or if they're super stubborn and unwilling to have conversations about it. Well, that just shows character, too, and you're like, yeah, if you're not willing to be open and at least understand or listen, I think that's a bigger red flag than the moral itself. Right. The ability to have a conversation and disagree about something.

Right. It's all about how you communicate. It's all about communication. So if you can talk about it in a way where you both will say, I hear you and hear the other person, and this is why I believe this. And if you can do it in a, you know, nice way, maybe it's okay. But then there are probably lines that if someone has,

if they're like anti-gay, you're not going to date someone that. No, I mean, And that's a, I mean, those are, you know, huge, like, those are extremes, you know. There are some that would be a deal breaker, I think, you know. But that's really hard because sometimes you fall for people and you don't have all of this information until it's too late. But I do think that there's also things that, you know, I do think lately a lot of people get really stuck in there like, well, this is who I am and this is how it is.

And these are my boundaries, which can sometimes make them. uncompromising in a relationship. And I think you've got to know what things you're willing to trade and what things you're willing to draw that line in, not move. Right? Because there's certain things that are they really your morals or are you being stubborn? Mm-hmm. Right.

Right. Yeah. Well, I think we're living in a time right now specifically, too, where things are so polarized that people are lining up on one side or the other. Mm-hmm. Would you feel like it would be compromising your morals if one of the partners was really practical and down to earth and then they called in a partner that was more materialistic? Would you think that that was compromising their morals to be with that person? Or do you think it would be just being open, feel? I wouldn't probably be with a partner that was super materialistic because that's not something that I've been. you a lot. But like are all the other parts of this person like amazing and they do have other values? Because like what are we talking here? It's just like I like me a good trip. I mean I let you know it do you don't mind. No but you know it all has to line up with other things to back it like you can't

just say you meet the perfect guy and then you find out like he goes to the shooting range every weekend goes hunting once a month like. Oh, that's tough. I don't know about that. That's rough. Oh. I wish everything could just be out on the table at the beginning and then. Don't trick me.

Yeah. You hang that taxidermy. Yeah, but I think that's the most, I think that should be out on the table early on is like you knowing your morals, you getting to know them and theirs. and like if it doesn't match up on your key deep values, that might be a problem. But it's also important, like, you're not just going to make a blanket statement that every guy that goes hunting is a shitbag that you can't be with. Right, Rachel? Yeah. I don't know anything about hunting.

Yeah. And that's where I think we need to be like just as open with like. For me, hunting isn't the same because I think. that people grow up with it in their culture and their great granddaddy taught them how to do it and there's like a lot there that I can't comprehend. That's one thing. But if someone's like a bigot or a racist or anti-gay or any of the things that really would shift my perception of them, that's different. Yeah.

Right. I agree with all of that. He's great. He's just like a racist. Like, no. You know what I mean? His grandpa was just like that. That's all he knows.

Right. But that's like what we're saying. There are lines that we're willing to cross or not. So, yeah, the takeaway is don't compromise your values or your morals. But make sure what you're fighting for is those and not just being stubborn. Well, we went everywhere from video games to... Hunting? Hunting.

Duck hunt. Mm-hmm. We talked about that. It was really, really lovely to meet Poki and talk to her. She was so sweet. Absolutely precious. Yeah. I'm really happy that she came and sat with us and that you have cool ant points now.

Yes. Yes. Well, thanks, everybody. We will see you. Well, you'll listen to us next week. Please come back. Okay, bye. That was a headgum podcast.