Broad Ideas with Rachel Bilson & Olivia Allen - Rachel Pally on Design Philosophy, Panic Attacks, and Home Birth

Episode Date: July 3, 2023

Rachel Pally talks with Olivia and Rachel (Bilson) about her designer origin story, home birth, and balancing work with parenting. They also talk about their overlapping childhood/teenage years, meditation, and addictive tendencies in kids.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hax is back for its fifth and final season, and so is The Hacks podcast. Join the Hacks creators and showrunners, Lucia and Yellow, Paul W. Downs, and Jen Statsky as they unpack the Emmy-winning comedy series. On each episode, hear stories from the set, what goes on in the writer's room, and how these beloved characters close out their final season. Watch Hax streaming exclusively on HBO Max and listen to The Hacks podcast on HBO Max, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Broad Ideas.

Today we have the most lovely, awesome, mother, fashion designer, woman, friend. This week we've got Rachel Pally on the podcast. We do. We have Rachel Pally on the podcast this week. She's a fashion designer. Rachel Pally, it's her self-named, self-named. Self-titled? Thank you.

Rachel Billson loves Rachel Palley's clothes. No, I would say I love her name. And her name. No, I do. Her clothes, she just has the most beautiful line. She brought you a bunch of stuff. Oh, I never got my shirt. Oh, I have your shirt.

She's had it for weeks. I didn't get my bear shirt. Oh, I got to put you that. Oh, I should have brought that. You should have brought that. I'll bring it. Okay. But yes, Rachel sits down with us and tells us her story, and she is just so lovely.

Let's talk to Rachel. Let's do it. Let's do it. Sometimes when inside of these thoughts are swirling round and round inside to join us on this journey as we take a little ride.

We'll talk about dogs and kids and things. We'll talk about chicks and tampon strings. We'll talk about boys that are neat. Because people die. Well, we're so happy that you're here. Thank you for having me. Yes. So I ran into Rachel and her husband, Kevin, who I went to high school with, which is such a funny, small world thing. Yeah. And I saw you guys at the airport. At the airport. Yes, waiting for our flight. And you joined him for a work trip, but you got to like just do your thing. Right. Yes. That's literally never happened. Not one time. When I used to have to go to New York a lot for work, he would come and like arrange meetings for the time that. I had to be there.

And this was the first time where he had something he had to do and I was able to kind of tag along. And by tag along, I went by myself to the museums. I walked alone. There was no complaining. No snack. I didn't have to carry a bunch of snacks in my pocket. I didn't have to worry about my kids. And it was the most like recharging trip.

I've only really spent time in New York when it had to do with my work and then stayed longer or when I was younger. And it was so nice to be like a by myself person. Yeah. Says the two moms. Yeah. Who was like a by yourself person? Who's that? It was so nice. It's so nice. Like, because when I saw you there, it was, I had to go for work and literally like flying on an airplane by myself with my shows or my book or like there's nothing I look forward to more. I don't think. No, by yourself. By yourself. By yourself. It was so nice. But especially you, like, being in New York, like walking New York, going in the museum. I mean, that sounds like heaven.

It was heaven. And a few years ago, I was like, ugh, I think I'm done with New York. I'm done with the cities. All I want to do is go out to nature. And I was like, well, I guess maybe I'm done. Maybe I'll never go back. And then to go and be so inspired again felt like I forgot about that part of my self and my life. But then also, we live in a city that is full of all of that. And I never take advantage of it anymore. go from school pickup to activities or like to my warehouse downtown and back to my house to work. And so it's a good reminder that I need to get myself out in my own city. In your own city.

You grew up. I grew up here too. Here. Were you a Valley Kid too? Yes. Yeah. That's what I thought. It's a breed.

Yeah. I went to school. I went to elementary school with Kevin. That's so funny. Oh my God. I forgot about that. Yeah. I've known him since.

He was in fifth grade. I was in sixth grade. Amazing. I met him and one of my dearest oldest friends, David, born off together. They were best friends. And yeah, they were like this duo. I remember they came up to us and like introduced themselves. I remember it.

Oh, my gosh. Because we were like the sixth grade girls. Yeah. You know? And I have held on to David the whole time. And David's married to Alex who Kevin and I went to pre-stain. school with. Yes. What? Yeah. Wait. Preschool. You guys, you and Kevin knew each other in preschool? Yes.

They have a David and Alex story. What's the, I don't even know if I know that. They met in kindergarten. Yeah. And Kevin and I were in the same kindergarten class. Yeah. So I, so did you go to Dixie Canyon? Just for kindergarten. I went to Dixie Canyon too. Oh, it is such a small world. It's such a small world. Yeah. So you guys knew each other back then. We did. But then, you know, then we lost touch. After kindergarten, I went to a different school. But then In high school, I, you know, that whole group of guys hung out on Ventura Boulevard, but there's skateboard. Yeah.

And you know, maybe buy some weed from them. And it was definitely like, we overlapped. And he remembers coming to a party at my house when my parents were out of town. And that I was like playing acoustic guitar and like sitting on the floor. And he was like, that's my girl. And then many years later, we didn't get together until we were in our late 20s. Oh, okay. How did that happen?

I want the story. Yeah. After college, I moved back to L.A. And I started my brand. And I was at Kinkos making these line sheets, which, this is before anything was really digital. So it was like drawing a picture and then shrinking it and then cutting it and taping it with the white tape at Kinkos over and over. And I look over and I'm like, God, I know that guy. And Kevin was doing the same thing for his men's brand at the time called Change.

And so we kind of connected. I had a boyfriend at the time and I bought some change clothes and hats for him. Yeah. And so we kind of stayed in touch about work for a while. And then so it wasn't until we were in our late 20s where we kind of had orbited each other for a long time that we got together. That's so funny. It's such like parallel things too. Yeah.

In your line, like so you started it right after college. Yeah. 2002. Oh, wow. 20 years in December. It was 20 years. Oh, I was telling Rachel today, I was like, I've probably heard your name more than I've heard Beyonce's name.

Like, more than anyone's name in history. It's like Rachel Polly, Rachel Polly. I remember the first sample sale you, this was like right when you started and me and my whole group of friends got samples and everything for the next maybe two decades was like, oh, can I borrow your Rachel Polly black shorts? Is it your Rachel Pally dress or your Rachel Pally skirt? Or is it your Rachel Pally like everything. It's like what were you saying?

It's a thing. Yeah. It's like it's like it's insane. It'll be like, oh yeah, that reminds me of my Rachel Pally. It's its own beast. But I remember back in the day, now just my memory is not great. But I remember coming to a sale. Like you brought.

the jersey on the scene. Hardcore. Amazing. On La Brea. Well, I had a pop-up shop on La Brea right by. Yes. Do you know, remember what year of that one? It was probably, oh my gosh. It was like a long time ago, right? It was like 15 years ago. See, the things that I do remember. Maybe 13 years ago, because Kevin and I were dating because he, I put him to work to like. Yeah. I feel like I came anyway. But it was always like, I remember when you, way back in the beginning, just like all that stuff coming onto the scene because like the OC was like what year did that start? 2003. Yeah.

You know, so those years. Yeah, those early years. And then I was working with Nicole Chavez with for some of her clients. So I feel like we reconnected around that. Yeah. And then we have a connection from even before. Right. What's that?

I can like picture being at your like at your kitchen table with our at your mom's house at your mom's house with her side bob. Oh my God. My mom was really into, do you remember Saibaba? Of course I remember Saibaba. Do you remember him? Yeah. I know Saibaba. Yeah, she was really into. Rob definitely doesn't remember him.

He was like a, I don't even know how to do. A guru. A guru in India. And my mom would travel every year to go visit him and stay in an ashram. And it was like, it was tied to Hinduism, you know, a little bit. But he was his own thing. It was actually a cult. Like if we really want to get into it.

Yeah, a lot of that kind of. Yeah. I remember her steering wheel, like, had his sticker on the steering wheel, the car that I learned how to drive on. And it was like, start early, drive slowly, reach safely. And it was like a picture of his face with like his huge hair. And her orange robe. Okay, sorry.

Yes. Sightract. And I'm picturing like the toast of New York lipstick or like the spice lip liner with the twiggy lipstick from Mac. Oh, my God. Yeah. It was that era. It was that era, which is, I feel like it's bad.

It is back. Full force. Yeah. We should have saved all of our stuff, guys. Right. But she was my best friend in eighth grade. And she was my best friend growing up, Valerie. And we lived around the corner from each other.

So I don't know. Yeah. It was just like this mesh at June junior high school. It was the era of getting dropped off at the city walk. Oh, yeah. And walking around. Every Friday night. And getting.

With our dark lip liner. The first time I ever got really stoned. was at Citywalk in that era of the chocolate, you know, brown lip liner and like lost my mind. Because like, first of all, you're like a kid. Yeah. And picture Citywalk. So Citywalk is like Universal Studios, outdoor mall with like a lot of shit. A lot of lights.

A lot of gangsters back then. Well, there was no place to go. So it was like what everyone would get dropped off, I think, and have another family, another parent pick you up. Yes. Yeah. But now being a parent and how. happy kid. Never. Absolutely not. Ever. Ever. Right? Never. The things that we did and got away with,

I was on LSD there. Oh my God. That's terrifying. Yeah, like, terrifying. It was terrifying. I remember being in the bushes being like, I don't feel safe here. I remember being on the roof of the parking lot, don't out of my mind being like, I can't go anywhere. Like, I live here now. I am here. I am here. Oh my God. Yeah. You really think about all the things you do. But, like, kids, I'm assuming they're still doing them. I'm wondering if it's gotten a little more mild or if it's gotten worse. How did you grow up? Yeah.

Because you grew up in the Valley. Same kind of thing. But where did you go to school? I went to Cleveland High School. Okay. And I went to CES for junior high, which is in Recita. And then for elementary school, I kind of went all over. So, but not that different.

No. Yeah. Not that different. Same. A lot of Venturable. Lovard hangout. Yeah. Yeah.

It's kind of like licorice pizza. Yeah. Except not really. Except they just really highlight the valley. Yeah. Decades later and not the same at all. But yeah, it's just like I just think more and more as a mom, I'm like terrified of like that age range. But I feel like maybe it's just my kid.

But I definitely don't see her going down the same path. And I don't know if that's just. No, I don't think she will. Well, do you think, like, my kids will be? Absolutely not. She was like, really. Yeah, no. Like, you were shoplifting.

You want me to tell your story? No, I'm not here to tell my story. We're here to tell Rachel's story. I know, but I'm just saying, like, stuff that you did is just like. Yeah, no, my kids will not go down that path. Okay. So, yes, you started your line right out of college. It's so interesting to me.

I love fashion and I think it's, but I feel like it's really grueling and how you've done it so successfully for 20 years is like fucking insane and so awesome and a true testament to you. Thank you. It is not always successful, but thank you. It is so many years of doing something with a changing industry, which you're in a changing industry too. It's like always having to pivot and always having to, when I started, there wasn't a website or any... I mean, you're like, I was at Kinko's with a white tape. And then to be now at this time where I'm the face of a brand because of social media, which obviously I didn't sign up for when I wanted to be a designer.

Wow. And then in the COVID years and how that changed also because I really became the face of it because I was home working. And then I was the only one there. So, of course, it was me. And it's just that the industry has changed so much. So rolling with the punches is pretty intense. But also, each phase has been exciting and gratifying in totally different ways.

And I think giving myself the time to really appreciate the fact that I had hit 20 years in December and, like, kind of honor that was really exciting. And it makes me ready for whatever is next because that's a long time to be doing something. Especially at our eight. Yeah. It's a really big deal. I'm 42. So it's like that's all of my adult life. I had one shift at a restaurant and I was a babysitter.

And that's all that I've ever done professionally. So this has been very consuming for so long and then throwing a couple kids in the middle. Right. How was it conceived? Like what was the first idea? What did you do? When I was still in college, I. studied dance as my minor. And I had to work in the costume shop for a certain amount of hours.

It was that or doing stagehand stuff. And so I chose costume shop. And there wasn't a whole lot of supervision. So if I could just like cut stretchy stuff and sew it together for a costume and really be creative with it. And I fell in love with doing that. And I grew up sewing with my grandma, but she did most of it. And she was really accomplished. And I just loved the project part of it. So then for my birthday somewhere, like my junior senior year of college, my parents got me a sewing machine and I went down the street to the dollar rack at the neighborhood sewing shop. And I got whatever fabric there was. And I started making things for my friends. And it was really just a creative fun outlet. And there was something about the style at the time where kind of deconstructed vintage and like homemade types of pieces were actually kind of. kind of happening. And I mean, even at Barney's, you could buy like a vintage t-shirt that had like scarves attached to make it a dress. And it was like a thing at the time. This is like not what it is now. So I was wearing something that I had made and I had been in L.A. for something and walked

into a shop on Chunging Road, which was a row of galleries and shops in Chinatown that started to be a really cool area. And then I don't know, it changed to more nightlife. But this woman said, I love what you're wearing. Where did you get it? And I said, I made it. And she said, well, what else can I see that you've made? And I said, oh, I have a bag of my laundry in the car. Why don't I go and grab that?

Which is something that only a 22-year-old would do. And I brought in a bag of stuff. And she said, I can sell this. Why don't you go back to school? Like, send me some stuff and let's see what happens. And it was working, which is really funny. A woman who came to work for me many years. later, actually bought an outfit there that I had sewn. So when she, which is just so funny that

it like we overlapped again after all of that. So that's kind of how I got started. And it was an early time in this, in L.A. was kind of, there were all these small brands that were starting. And I got involved with a PR firm and showroom that were related. And so they pushed the the press and the sales at the same time. And people like Rachel Billson would wear the clothes or it was Jessica Simpson and this era of MTV TRL. Oh my God. All of these things were, you know, every week I'd go to the market and pick up an S weekly and flip through and hope that someone was wearing it. It wasn't the same instantaneous stuff that it is now. So that's how I started. And it was so crazy because I didn't know what I was doing.

I was 22 straight out of college with a degree in geography. Oh, my God. Something incredibly random, which was my way of graduating on time with the credits I already had. And something that was interesting to me, not like maps, but the way that people use space and cities. But really, it was just a degree. And so then I, like, made this up as I was going along, which means you're doing good. having a lot of high highs and a lot of low lows, a lot of, you know, just figuring it out. And so that's my, and then 20 years past.

Yeah, I mean, I can't, yeah, the whole 20 years thing. But it's, that's so amazing because it was just something that kind of happened, you know. And I think in life when that, it's just so cool. Because it's a clear, you know, universal calling or whatever it is. And it's so funny to bring up that time of like flipping through us. weekly or like TRL, you know, and all of that that really, Rob doesn't even know what it is. I know what TRL is. You do? Did you ever watch it? Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. These youngans, these days. Yeah. But like, it's just, yeah, and even, you know, and seeing how your line has

evolved, you know, and transformed as you have and everything, you know, and like, I've literally, like, gone the whole way, you know, like, from the first. Jersey like dresses and and to now which by the way pregnant like all of your things were a godsend. Yeah. Stretchy and soft. Stretchy and soft. Yeah. But like and to grow with you and just see. It's just so cool. And it's such a great story. And I think for anybody who wants to kind of achieve it's like it's grueling for sure. It's not like you can just do it. But seeing a success story I think is so inspiring. Yeah. It is it's a it even inspires me. like, wow, I can't believe I've been doing this for so long and in all the changes and all the life changes. And I think especially like you were saying about how now it, how it's evolved,

you know, I'm not the same person I was 20 years ago. Right. Think about the things we wore. Imagine the color, not pink ugg boots that were trendy and like a short with like a miniskirt. It was just, of course I'm not doing the same thing that I used to do. But then there was this hiccup in the middle where I kept wanting to evolve. and the stores that were carrying the brand weren't ready to evolve their idea of me. And so I kept pushing against that where I was like, but I don't want to make that white maxi skirt Neiman Marcus. Like no one wants that.

They're like, well, if you look at the numbers from, you know, six years ago, and you can't think about fashion that way. Fashion moves really fast. You can't just look at a spreadsheet and like know what's next. So I had a lot of challenges in, evolving. And now it's interesting because now I have a whole different batch of shoppers who didn't necessarily know me then. So there's some people who've been following the whole brand journey and some people who have an association with, oh, I have a 12 year old, but I wore this

dress for my maternity shoot. And so it's like kind of pigeonholed into this moment in time. But then there's also all these new eyes on the brand that didn't know how it was before. And now the way that the brand is, it's who I am now. And also the way that my style and my sensibilities changed when I became a mother, like, I don't want to make stuff you have to wear Spanx with. Like, I don't want that. I don't want to wear that. I don't want to even promote that. I don't want that. So being able to evolve and also believe in it in a different way because it's actually, like there were some years where I wasn't even really wearing it because I didn't really believe in it because I was making what I was being asked to make and the things that I wanted to make

weren't getting bought. And now I get to wear it every day and really believe in it. And it suits me in every way better than it did when I was pushing against this like resistance for where I wanted it to go. Right. I just love the like level of like you don't have to think and you can be like slightly elevated, comfortable like mom but still looks super chic and like sophisticated. It's definitely like exactly where I'm at if I have to like go in him. I'm like, oh, I can put these together like the matching or the dresses or whatever it is. And it's my favorite go-to. But that ease of just knowing you can look super chic, but also be comfortable.

Yeah. And I would think that a lot of it has to be, like, being a mom and the functionality of. I don't want to change. I have to wear the same thing all day for like 10 different activities in a day. And also, like, it has to be able to be washed. And if I catch my reflection in the mirror, I don't want to be in, like, my husband's oversized sweatpants that I. Which also really cute. His are really cool, but I don't look particularly great in them.

Yeah. And I like his more than the ones that fit me. So just to have an option where you feel put together and you look put together, but you can feel loungy. Yeah. And so you've done all this and then you had, how old are your kids? Almost 10 and almost 7. Almost 10. He keeps saying, I'm almost 10. He keeps saying, I'm almost 10. That's double digits. It's halfway to 20. Oh. Oh. How rude is that? How rude is that? Oh, yeah. That's a whole lot of something. Yeah. But then, you know, in the workplace, whatever, and having kids and balancing that, I feel like

that's a whole other skill set in itself. That's psycho. Right? That's a crazy thing that we do. Right. Because you're very hands-on mom. And, like, you know, I was saying before we started recording when I was like, okay, Rachel, like, you're like, nope, just email me.

Yeah. Like, that's who you contact. Like it's, you know, and you're doing it all. Yeah. And it's not easy. So how do you find time for yourself, number one? And how do you juggle it like with staying sane? I have a nanny.

Yep. And two sets of grandparents that live in Los Angeles. Oh, that is the key. So I'm not by any means pretending like I am doing this on my own. I also have a husband who's incredibly involved in hands-on too. So there's two very, very. devoted working parents who, but we both own our own businesses. So it's not like we clock in, clock out. It's very consuming. But we do have an incredible amount of support. Right. So that's how we do

it. Time for myself is tricky. It's negotiating back and forth with Kevin, who like last night I got to spend some time with some girlfriends and knowing that when I need to take time, I have a partner who can support that and who loves to support that. Um, I set my alarm really early to get up and meditate because I feel like once I'm in the routine of it, it's so much easier. And then I really feel the benefits rather than in and out of the routine, which then it's just like a hassle to have to do it. And now that I work from home most of the time, I don't spend so much time commuting and all that extra time can really be spent more tuned in to my kids and also taking a little bit more time for myself. Yeah. What drove you to meditation? Anxiety.

Overwhelm. And I've tried a lot of different modalities, things over the years, but I recently took a course with a teacher in L.A. named Jeff Cobur, and I've been doing twice a day meditation, and it's the first thing that's really helped me. I just did my afternoon. in the car when I got here. Yeah.

And I was like, oh my God, is this going to be like some creeper sitting outside, sitting outside of Rachel's house quietly with my eyes closed? But it's a little weird to do that in the car, but also like I was by myself and who cares? And also you kind of have to fit it in when you can. And more than anything, it's been helping like my nervous system. No. It's just like I feel like I've been operating at this like super high all the time. Which makes me not my best as a partner, not my best as a mother, and definitely not my best as a business person, any of it.

And so trying to carve that out as much as I can. I mean, the hope is 20 minutes in the morning and 20 minutes in the afternoon, which is a huge chunk of time. So then I feel, but then when I think about it, I can easily spend 20 minutes scrolling on my phone and get nothing out of it but irritation. Or I can come out of 20 minutes of meditation feeling so much more ready to face the rest of the day that I am more productive and less anxious. And so even though it's in the morning when I wake up and if I don't want to do it, I can like talk myself out. but if I can stick with it, it benefits me more than the extra 20 minutes of sleeping. Yeah.

I feel way more rested than I ever do without it. What's the, you know, method of this method that I'm doing is a mantra base. So I was given a mantra that it's like a small sound, that it can be like a word or a sound that you repeat to yourself without moving your mouth, without moving your tongue. That's something that you're thinking that gives your mind something to. focus on. So when the thoughts come, you can bring it back to that. Like how in certain types of meditation you bring it back to the breath. It's something that, because no matter what, your mind is meant to have thoughts. Yeah. So fighting against it doesn't get you anywhere. But having something to, so like sometimes I'll like space out and be on a thought train for a while before I realize

that I am and bring it back. But just to have something or like sometimes listening to a chant over and over can do the same thing where it's just like a sound that's repetitive to get your brain out of its cycle. Is it TM? It's like TM. Okay. I was going to say because I feel like TN they give you a specific. That only you know. Is this like something you only you know. Only I know. You don't tell anyone. See I've I struggle with it so much because like I, you know, I always try and then I have an app or whatever and my mind. It's just like it's so hard to turn it off. Yeah. Especially. But that's not the point. Yeah, I think that's our idea is that you have to have this silence in your brain and like it's no, you're not going to. No. It's just saying. So they give you something so it's not

silent. It's an anchor to come back to. But you're still. Rob, you're familiar, I'm sure. You're still going to have thoughts. Yeah. You can't. It's like, I think sometimes we're like hard on ourselves for like not doing it right. But that's not the thing. It's also giving yourself that time and saying, okay, I'm going to do this for 20 minutes. Even if all you do is think the whole time, you're not doing anything else. It's just giving you a pause, not looking at your phone, not engaging with anybody else. And so even if you're not doing it, right, you're still doing something that's beneficial. Because I've had the apps and I've listened to Joe Dispense. I've like listened to things. But also, I don't always want to hear someone else's voice or, but anything

that can become habitual about having some calm. Because I can, it's hard sometimes to find the calm. Like, you know. I started hearing, my kids started, we would listen to the Joe Dispenza in the morning and at night before bed. And my little son would go, well, how is your body in space? He would like start doing it. And I couldn't listen anymore.

Because I'm like, he's ruining it. Yeah. So all I hear is Elliot being like in space. Doesn't it sound like that? You know, I tried the like deep sleep. Like I do the deep sleep thing on calm. Like, and it's the one woman. I think she started it or something.

It's like her voice is kind of everywhere. And I got so used to her voice that I don't even hear what she's saying anymore. I just put it on. And it's like on the lowest setting. But it's still stupid. Yeah. Soothe is. Hello.

It soothes me. It soothes me. It soothes me to sleep. And like there's something in my brain that's like triggered by just knowing that like she's talking. Yeah. Maybe I just have like a unhealthy codependency. No, it's a trigger though. Like that's like when I hear this song for mash or cheers. Like it instantly makes me want to go to sleep because that's what I heard it as a kid when it was like bedtime. You're like when I hear like gun. When I hear gunshots. When I hear gunshots, wha. When I hear like Orrin in the background I'm like oh daddy's home Rachel Sarah Bilsen I'm mean You guys It's been a long day

It has been a long day. It has it has no but yeah Like there's certain things I used to train myself I trained myself to fall asleep What are you going to say What I train myself to fall asleep

To kid A by Radiohead And then like even when it gets to idiotic, do we talk about this? They tell you this? No. Where it's like really fast and loud. Like I just lull right to sleep. So I'm like, what? I'm so laughing.

I think I'm fine. I'm past the point of return. I'm just sorry. Oh my God. I was just talking to my daughter about this. Like you know when you get the giggles when you're not supposed to? Yes. Yeah.

We were at, you know, Vernie. Mm-hmm. She was doing a play when we were like 20 years old. And it was Romeo and Julia. And we were sitting in the front row of a very small theater. Tiny. Where we and Leah, like, got, like, that inappropriate. When you're not supposed to.

And we were hysterically left. Like, where it like hurts and you're. Oh, it's like pissing. And it's so quiet. It's fucking Romeo and Julia. It's like, so serious. And we had to run out of the theater where everyone can see you because there's like 10 people there. Oh my God.

Anyway, sorry. I just told Breyer that story for some reason. She's eight. It doesn't make sense. But yeah, okay, we're coming back. We're coming back. But yeah, I think you can train your brain to do anyone. She's got it.

Oh, my God, I'm crying. We did this once with a waitress. And House of Pines. You know House of Pines in those fields? We caught the laughter. We didn't even know what we were laughing at and the waitress caught it. She came over to take our order and we were so hysterical that she started laughing. She had to walk away and then every time she would pass us, she would hold the menu out and not look at us.

She couldn't take our order. She didn't look at us. Oh, my God. I'm sorry. you guys. It's been a long day and just thinking of Rachel's trying to train her brain. It's untrained. Okay. Okay. You go. Take it away. No, because I go serious. Go serious. We want serious. Hold up your notebook. Yeah. I mean, no. Yes. Please. Please. Okay. Here's what I think is really important. I love to hear someone where you're at with your level of success, what you've accomplished, having a wonderful

husband and children and like all the things right i think it's really important to hear people that have accomplished what you've accomplished talk about any sort of mental health yeah and that those things don't necessarily make you immune to life right oh my god now i think it i mean definitely my career is is a big chunk of the things that unravel me right um the reasons why i like sit up in the middle of the night and can't breathe and go through the circular thinking that gets you nowhere. And also panic attacks, like, don't help you. It doesn't solve any of your problems. Can you talk yourself out of a panic attack? Sometimes. Sometimes I, luckily, not luckily, because it's terrible to interrupt your sleep, but I'm usually home and can wake Kevin up if I needed. Or since COVID, I started taking lex

pro, which has really helped me. I think it's helped me because I'm feeling less anxious, but I actually think it's more the meditation than the Lexpro. Interesting. Is your first time in your life taking it? Okay. And I'm on a really low dose and I don't know, since I didn't feel any side effects and then I'm not really, now it's been a while. I'm pretty sure it's fine for me, but I don't know that it definitely doesn't give me any sense of euphoria, but it does maybe make me feel a little less nuts. Six months into COVID, I was like losing handfuls of hair. I was like so, to a makeup artist and a hairstylist friend of mine both recommended this

company to reach out to called Her Clinic Inn. And when I called, he was like, oh, yeah, three to six months after anything traumatic is where it would be showing up in your hair cycle. That stress could have killed that hair cycle you were in. So you wouldn't have necessarily noticed it for three to six months. And he's like, and our business is booming. You know, it's like because of the pandemic. Yeah, because right.

And, you know, at the beginning of the pandemic, I had to like let my team go and didn't know what to do. And I had hundreds of boxes of orders that had already been packed up that no one was not going to pay for. It was so gnarly. But even coming before that, I had had some years of challenging business even before COVID where it coincided with the birth of my second child and not necessarily feeling so motivated and definitely a touch of postpartisan. depression and, you know, everything kind of snowballs. So I'm very open about my struggles with anxiety. And I think, like, for me, the things that have helped me the most are having close relationships with other women. And I actually reached out to a friend today who is a man who was, I know, has been kind of facing some emotional heaviness. And he responded, like,

thanks for talking to me about it. Like, it's hard to talk about it. And I was like, yeah, that's what women do right. It's like, you know what's helpful is to know that, like, I also feel those feelings that you're having. And so you're not alone in that. And I think without other women in my life to talk about the real stuff, I mean, motherhood would have been completely insane without having a sounding board of other mothers. But I do reach out to other women I know in business often. And I talk through a lot of it. And I think being able to like be honest and go deep with those things really helps you to feel less alone. It doesn't like fix the P&L statement and it doesn't like fix payroll problems. But it does help you to remember that what you do isn't who you are and it's there's so much more. But yeah, I think we're also in a stage of life where like we're dealing with friends whose parents are aging and our parents are aging and children are challenging.

and children who have been living through a pandemic are extra challenging. And everyone seems to be having a hard time in some way or another. And I think the easiest way to face that is to be open about it. At least for me, I'm more of an oversharer than an undersherer. Yeah, we are the same. But I love it. And, you know, I think when you said, like, you had postpartum depression a little bit. With your second one, did you have it with your first one?

With my first one, I think I was so, I had a really hard time breastfeeding with both of them. And I had put this insane amount of pressure on myself about it. And I think that with my first, I didn't enjoy those first couple months a lot. Was it because of that? So I don't know how much was hormonal and how much was like my own stress I put on myself. Whereas with my second, even it took longer for me to get my period. I was holding on to the, I think with my second, it was really biological, my depression. I think with the first one, it was very circumstantial that I had, and it was so alienating.

And also, I, as a very young person, I had this big business that was like, talk about alienating. I had, like, nobody in my peer group to talk to about it. I remember being, like, 24 and sitting in a room with lawyers having to make a will. And I was like, I was still like felt like a kid. Yeah. So I went through a lot of that early stress by myself. And I'm very grateful to have a partner who like can support me through it. Because now, well, now I'm not on my own.

Like what's mine is his? What's his is mine? And even though like the responsibility of my business is just on me. The bottom line is on both of us because we. Yeah. So whether he wants to be my. And I'm sure he doesn't always want to be my business partner, but he is. And just being able to share like that weight is a big thing.

Because all these things, being young in business, being like a founder who is like kind of the only one in charge is really hard. Being a mother is really hard. Yeah. All of it. Yeah. That's hard, ladies. Yeah, I know. It is.

It's the hardest. And it's hard. And I have all this. I have like an unbelievable amount of support. Right. And it's still. Yeah. Yeah.

I really value you saying. not because I think that, you know, if you look at just social media or you look at what most people see of successful women, they think like, oh, it should be like that. Yeah. Right. And the truth of the matter is all of these things are hard. And people need to be more open and honest about like, no, that was hard for me. I did it alone or I felt this or that. And like, just the fact that you would share that you are taking an antidepressant.

that you struggle with those things, it breathes comfort into my body to hear. Yeah. Because then you start to be like, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. She's a person too. We're all just doing this thing. Yeah. Yeah.

My parents also owned a business and they have this beautiful marriage and two high functioning grown children. And especially when my first son was little, I remember a group of my girlfriends being, my mom being there and someone saying, like, how did you do it? You like had a business. You like raise these kids. Like what and my mom was like, oh, I cried in the shower every day in my 30s. Like do not think that like because I'm on the other side of it that the steps to get to this weren't really fucking hard. And it made everyone was like, oh my God, thank you so much for saying that, especially because hindsight, we often glorify

the way that things were instead of really facing like, she's like, No, and also our parents raising kids was hard, but now there's an unbelievably different situation, which is we are tethered to technology. Our kids are exposed to things, not because there's eight stations of television that they could possibly hear or see, but there is media coming at them from every angle. I got to have the fun conversation with my kids, what's cocaine because of cocaine bear. Oh! And like...

How did you explain that one? I was like, oh, great. I'm so glad you're asking because of the billboards. You know, there's like no way to avoid it. No, they can read now. And we are as a culture so distracted. So no matter what, it's not like, I mean, we all sat down to dinner when I was growing up. And like, how often would our landline ring during dinner or after it was like, we are constantly

engaged with the outside world. And no wonder our kids are feeling it. No wonder. And especially with two people. who are working for themselves. So like, there isn't a time to really turn it off. We have to really allocate that time. So it's a different time to raise kids, not to mention, you know, the pandemic. Right. That little old test nut. Yeah, it's so true, though. And every time I hear it, I like look at myself, I'm like, fuck, I am on my phone so much. I think like every morning my daughter wakes up,

I'm probably like looking at my phone. And I'm like, what is that actually doing? And how did different. And just to be constantly engaged with every single person in your life, even the outside world, what's going on. And it's constant. It has to have some kind of. Well, I tell them that they're not allowed to have their iPad. Oh, yeah. And like, as I'm like, oh, no, I'm like, you only get it on the plane. That's the only time you ever get your eyes. She's like literally, mom. Yeah. You're on your phone while you're telling me this. Yeah. Exactly. And I look at it and like, fuck. And you try to take the time to yeah, Set it. Damn. It's so hard to do, though.

It really is. I don't know what the answer is. This is probably the most time we spend off of our phones when we're recording. That's the reason we do this. Yeah. No, but my kid's not here. If only guy could just put my daughter in here, she has to wear ear muff. Do you guys have family rules about technology?

Yeah, but I think, like, Kevin and I, it's not that we disagree about it, but like I'm more extreme than he is. and he feels like I'm gonna, it like swings too far in the other direction. Like the sugar thing. And he's totally right because I grew up with highly regulated sugar and media intake. And then I would like beg to sleep at a friend's house where I could have sugar cereal and watch whatever. And I'm definitely doing that with our son about technology, especially our older son who is like has a natural inclination. for computers and is interested in it and like wants to all he wants to do is play video games.

And all I want to do is say no all the time. And I'm like, no guns, no this. And so I think that, I mean, when I have been super strict, like he'll even build a freaking iPad out of a cardboard box and draw a Minecraft character on it and pretend to play it. I'm like definitely swinging too far where it becomes someone suggested to me the other day, it might be better instead of letting him use it on the weekends to like give him a little bit every day so that he's not, it doesn't have the same like taboo around it, which I'm not willing to do.

So then also it's like no matter what a lot of it I'm seeing is my issue, that I have an issue with our generation of like I picture the boys I grew up with like the ones who were into video games. And I'm like, oh, absolutely. not. There's no way. I'm like, here's a skateboard and here's the guitar and here's art supplies, but like absolutely not for the, but they'll still like pick up a stick and play a shooter game outside because there is, I feel like we're trying to figure out where the balance can be, where I can loosen up a little bit and not make it, because I know I'm creating issues around it

by being like so anti. So hardcore. Yeah. And I think a lot of it is somebody told me, you have to parent the child you have and not the child you wanted or expected to have. Right. And like I definitely did not expect to have a video game playing boy who wants to only wear his Nike stuff and talk about baseball and video games. I'm like, can we talk about? And he doesn't want to. Good thing I have the other one too. Yeah.

It's a little bit more my speed. And Teo and I have a lot to connect about, but the things that he's more interested in, are like not things he and I can connect on. So I have to really spend extra energy finding the things where we can connect. And we read together a lot. And we like that's definitely the thing that we can both get into. Is he the older one? Yeah.

Yeah. It's a thing. She has the same thing with her. I have the same exact thing with my son. And we only let him do it on the weekends. And now he does it with David's kids. So they play together over the online. Yeah. for the online thing and it's like,

it dominates his thoughts. Yes. Like everything he's consumed and motivated by it. Like, and it's a problem. Yeah. So we do it not at all on the weekdays. And I've wondered the same thing,

but I'm like, it's, it's a thing. Yeah. Yeah. And like I've seen his reaction. Like, it's like a,

it's an obsession. It's like a crackhead. Like the turning it off. It's like, yeah. The turning it off is almost worse than giving it to him. Yeah.

Like, it's like, oh yeah. It's like no time has passed. It doesn't matter how much time, like no time has passed. And then you can't take it away because then he's like, like a complete melt. And I see that he's like, psych. Jonesing.

Yes. He's addicted. Addicted. So I have this like kind of a similar example with my daughter like, because it's just us. You know, single mom like whatever before school, I would let her watch TV at the breakfast table while I'm because I'm doing everything else, right? And then I kept thinking about it. I'm like, fuck, no other parents with their kids.

Well, I know you do. But like at her school, they're like, no, we don't have time. the morning. There's no TV in the morning before school. And I'm like, fuck, I'm doing this wrong. Right. So I took it away the TV in the morning, which honestly, I have noticed a difference. It's way easier to get her out the door. And there were a lot more fights when we had TV. So now she's so obsessed with getting her time before bed, because I'll let her watch like a half hour, you know, at bedtime before she goes to bed. I should be reading. And sometimes I do. And look, we're not perfect. But like, And then so now she's so obsessed with that.

Like she got to go out to dinner with her friend the other night. She got home late. And I'm like, listen, if you go, there's not going to be time for TV, but you understand that you're making, that's okay. You can go out to dinner late. Like that's fine. Then she gets home and she's like obsessed. She's like, mom, even a minute.

Like you said, okay, but if I wake up early in the morning, can I get the TV? And like, it does. It's like this weird, like obsessive. And I don't know how to proper. I don't even know how to handle it or deal with it other than just like, I have to stick to it. It's like, no, it's not easy. And they fucking...

And some of that is just age appropriate that they don't have that, they like can't set those boundaries and they don't have like that impulse control. But also, Teo's almost 10. So then I'm like, but then I've like,

shake my finger at him like, you're almost 10. Right. But really, what does that mean? You know, it's hot. It means season nine. But also like,

what's my expectation of what it is to be 10? Like all of a sudden He turns 10 and he's got like all the impulse control. Like, no. I have a hard time putting it down sometimes. So I understand that. Yeah.

I know. Being a parent. It's not easy. And so my daughter's now into playing Roblox with her friends because it's another one you can go online. Yeah. That's what my boys play with their, with my niece. Yeah. She's just learned it.

Our other friends, you know, the older one's 11. Her sister's eight as well. And they do it. But like they only get it on the weekend mornings. And so now I've let her. a little bit on weekend mornings. You can play Roblox with Winnie and Stella for an hour or two. And then you get free time.

So then that's like we also need the time for them to. Yeah, it's a balance. Although I wasn't really watching what the games are on Roblox. And like I think her dad saw one. And he's like, what is she playing? And I was like, oh, fuck, I probably need to like see what she's playing. You know, because that's a responsibility too. It's just like the juggling all of it and finding time for yourself and balancing.

But then I think like growing up, like, I watched so much TV. Like, we watched a lot of TV. So much. I was going to say, look, I turned out fine. And maybe there'll be objections to that. But like, you know, it didn't, it didn't do any really like, you know, harmful, stunting. Well. Well.

No, but I don't know. But yeah, it's just all the parenting and finding the balance and what works for your family and what. But there's so much judgment out. there. And I'm sure you went through it with like breastfeeding. You probably felt so. And I was a, I had home birth. So then in addition, do too. Can we talk about that? Yeah. It's my favorite thing to talk about. I'm here. Do you want to hear about birth? He's good with it. He's good. Excellent. That's what he's here for. Yeah. So then I think I added this extra stress about breastfeeding because of the natural,

which and that pressure was not coming from my midwife, who was. like a fed baby is a happy baby. Like Rachel. So, so yeah. There was, I mean, there's just endless ways that we can pick ourselves apart as mothers and as fathers.

And there's also endless ways where we can kind of praise ourselves for doing the best we can do. Yeah. And also the stuff that we grew up watching is very different from the stuff that our kids have access to now. I'm sure as my daughter did and cops was on, Like we're just watching like a reality show of like cops like taken down.

Bad boy. Bad boy. Do you remember after school? What you're gonna do? Yeah. We were just watching like the slam dunk contest. Yeah. And because we're like, oh, the boys will love to watch that.

And then like in between the commercials that came on where I'm like, no, no, no, no, and like standing in front of the TV and like trying to block in. We can't find the remote. And it's like we can protect them as much as we can when we are. Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't even remember. I know, but there's totally not appropriate for my six-year-old who's watching. And then both of my kids are extra sensitive in the last couple of years.

So just not, we don't have the control over what it's like you give a little and then they can see a whole lot more than you're allowing. Or like we have the parental controls on the devices. But it doesn't mean that it actually filters things out. No, it doesn't. I know. I've had the same thing with that. And it's like, how much do you want to protect? and how much do you want to prepare.

Right. And I struggle with that. No, she can't see that. She can't know this exists. She can't, you know, because those are going to put fear or whatever. And then I have friends like Brandy, our mutual friend, who's, they're so open about everything and honest. And I totally value that and honor that.

And I'm like, but I can't do that in all areas. Like it's just. No, but then also you can give just the right, like just the information they ask for. Like when there's something terrible that happens in the. the world and the at least at our school they like listen to the conversations on the yard before they decide what to share because obviously information that kids get from their peers is a scarier yes yeah and incorrect usually and can create a lot of anxiety because then you don't kids don't know like that they can talk to a grown up about it because they heard this and it didn't come from a

grown up and like is a secret and so being able to create an environment where kids can ask you questions and then give them just the right amount of information and not continue to, like, give them the crumb. And if they keep asking, give them a little more and a little more. There was, like, our school started to do sex ed or whatever they call it now. Yeah, they call it something. Early, early.

So a very progressive small school. And one of the things is that there were kids, like, several years ago, where there was a rumor that you bite off a penis, and swallow it and it grows into a baby. Oh. So they were like, I think we should start this unit a little earlier so that we can, you know, get on the other side of this because kids on their own are super creative and often quite dark with their ideas.

So we don't share everything with our kids and we definitely don't let them see things like the news because that's terrible. That's worse than any commercial. Worse than anything. You're like, oh my God, no matter what. It's horrible. And it's especially the way that it's presented as like something like you got to. Yeah.

Oh, it's so we don't, we don't do that. But we're very open with our kids about. I think I just, Briar just learned that like babies can or naturally, you know, intended to come out of the vagina. Like she didn't, you know, she didn't have any. She always knew like she was in my tummy or whatever. And I explained it.

She's like, but a baby's head, mom, is this big. She, like, showed with her hands. I was like, yes, honey. Actually, it's bigger than that. Yeah. And it comes out of a teeny tiny hole and goes back to being that way. It was like this whole comfort. And it was like blew her mind.

She was like, what the fuck? Oh my God. When I was pregnant with Luca, my second, and we were going to have him at home, Teo was three years and three months. And I thought, oh, well, I want him to be there. We had watched some videos of like families that we're all present. And so he and I started watching some videos that are like some of the of other kids at birth. So not all like not all full frontal, but definitely where.

And he was only three. So it was like, mommy might make these funny sounds, listen to this mama. And there was one where we were watching. And then the baby came out and it was quiet. And then he started clapping. And I was like, okay, you know what? He can be here when when I actually was in labor. it was late night and I decided I didn't want to wake up.

Actually, I probably didn't even realize he was or wasn't there. It was in my own thing. But then he wasn't there when when Luca was born. But it was interesting to like, I know he walked into preschool and said after Luca was born, my mommy pushed a baby out of her vagina and there's a placenta in our freezer. It's like, oh, not all the parents will be thrilled. They're sharing that about the placenta.

Santa. And we eat it for breakfast. Yeah. And he's like, yeah, and I had a pill this morning. And it was great. No, I think that stuff's so cool, though, to share, you know. And the fact that you did a homebirth twice. Yeah. That's so awesome. Like, I always had a dream of like, I'm going to have like a water birth and it's going to be. Did you do it in a tub or did you? No, I just labored in the tubs, but both babies were born on our bed. Yeah. Wow. That's so cool. My mom had home births. What? So both of, yeah, my brother. and I were born at home. So I think having that be normalized before and actually my dad had lived in this like hippie community and had been at a few births before he was even with my mom. So he encouraged my mom to look into it when they were pregnant with me, which doesn't usually go that

direction. Right. That's really cool. I just think about it and like going through it without drug. Like, what an amazing thing. It was pretty amazing. Yeah. Our women's bodies are pretty amazing. It's so, so crazy. But I love the open dialogue and, you know, and wanting him to be there if it would have worked out. I mean, my husband, talk about the other end of the spectrum. Opposite end. He watches the, I mean, you would probably cry if you saw the things he watches with my children. With her, well, he's just turned four. Yeah, but it's insane. It's. It's. scary things. Oh, but not all kids are super affected by it. They're like my youngest is obsessed. Like, he loves it. Everything's scary. It's, yeah, it's a thing. My niece has always been fine with scary.

It's not, I think it's a lot of it just has to do with your particular child. And if one of your children wasn't okay with it, then they wouldn't watch it. No, they're both okay with it. The only thing that really upsets me is that, so my father-in-law is staying with us. and he's partially deaf, so he watches the news. Oh, really loud. That's tough. All day. That's tough.

Which news? Like CNN. Yeah. Rob just want to know if he's watching Fox News. He's like Tucker Carl's. You know, he watches like local news, you know? Which is the worst. Because all it is like, this baby was kidnapped and thrown off a cliff and you're just like,

but this dog rescued from the wash and it's all scary. It's all. All of it's fears. Every single news story is fear-based. I'm like, where is, and I talk about this, like on Instagram, there's good news movement. Yeah, I love it. It's my favorite. Like, happy day podcast, whatever it is, you know, and it's like, why can we not have more of this fed to us?

Why is everything fear? It's fucking awful. I think, too, the older people get, because my mom does it too. And then they'll talk to each other about the bad things that are happening. Yeah. In front of Elliott, she'll be like, oh, the mass shooting. And I'm like, mom. Yeah.

Can you please not? Some people aren't in tune with like, oh, like maybe we don't talk about this when kids are present, you know? Like my husband. Let's talk about that kind of stuff. And I'm like, like my stepdad sometimes, like, Briars right. And like his sister or called me like, oh my God, you just got in a car accident. The car flipped over five times down the ravine. And I'm like, can we not?

Like, probably don't need details right now. Oh, my. Goodness. Yeah, but there is that line of like, you do have to, they are in the world. They are. They are. And you need to introduce them in bite size. Yeah. Pieces.

Yeah. And like disappointment. Yeah. Is a thing in life. Oh, yeah. You know, that they have to learn. And I'm always trying to. In conflict.

And sitting. You always try to disappoint. It is a boiner. I think like my, my older son was having trouble because he didn't want to do the math and class. He just didn't want to do. too. And he, instead of listening, he would like just tune it out. He's totally capable of it. But I think to have to push through, it's like you have to train yourself to sit in something that's uncomfortable

or that you don't like. Or he had a conflict with a classmate yesterday and came home feeling really kind of challenged about it. And you can't solve that for them. You have to just say, I know, that must really feel yucky. Like, what can't. can we do to like what's something that you can do tomorrow to try to repair and say, you know what, I had a hard time with math too. And I had a tutor. And also, I've had conflicts with my friends. And I know that really is so hard.

And being able to like, not, you can't fix it for them. I mean, even if you want to, you can't. No, it's impossible. But gosh, that's so hard to. So hard to hear. Oh, it's horrible. Oh, my God. It's the worst.

Oh, PITDAO. So mean. There's so much. mean. And you just have to try to give our kids like the tools and how to deal with certain things. But it's, and we had a therapist on Lori Gottlieb and she gave

us great advice. She's like, when kids come home, you know, she's like, there's three words. Tell me more. So it's like, love that. Yeah, I just keep. Brian's probably like, Mom, do you not say anything else? Like, this is the only things going out of your house. He's always like, uh-huh. Yeah, tell me more.

Like all the time, but it's, it is helpful. You know, to try to get them to talk about it. it and, you know, handle. I'm telling you, you guys both have boys. Girl, it's a whole other, like, the drama and like the friends and the best friends and who's playing with his.

Like, it starts so early. And I didn't realize. Yeah, we all lived it. We all lived. We lived it. But now I'm having to see it with my kid and it's like, oh, fuck, like, we're gnarly. Yeah. Like, girls are fucking gnarly. Yeah. You know, it's like out, like, they're cutting through. Like, it's just,

no joke and trying to navigate it is really interesting. And I have a very sensitive child, you know, who doesn't, you know, it's, I think, more challenging for her to like understand, like, how someone could, yeah, act that way or say those things. And it's just, this is basically about how hard it is to be parent. Yeah. And all you non-parents out there, don't listen to us. It's wonderful and perfect. Oh, yeah. Rangbos and butterflies all day long. Yeah. And Rob has two boys, too. I mean, his youngest is only one. But, you know, in the...

That's hard in its other in a totally different way. Right. All the stages are equally challenging and equally rewarding. Right. They really are. I know. It's kind of fun, like, feeling like I have, like, my little bestie. You know, she's getting older and, like, more like hanging out.

Like, come on, let's go. Whatever. Yeah. To them all. Let's go to Clares. Yeah, I think I have a little bit more. Let's go to the Third Street Promenonement. and walk around like we did when we were kids. Oh my God. Love that. Loved it. Loved it. Yeah. My little one is definitely

has more of, it can be my little bestie. Yeah. Is there a mama's boy and a daddy's boy? Sort of. I think maybe my older one is more of a daddy's boy. My little one just, it's like, it's like the most romantic relationship of my life. He like looks into my soul and like touches my face. And I've just never, he is beyond. He's also an absolute terror. He is beyond. He's the hardest person. That is the hardest person I've ever had to deal with.

But he is the most loving, kind, generous, devoted, heart-centered person. He is divine. I love it. And impossible. Oh, my God. Aren't they all? Aren't the good ones? Like, I just swoon and then cry for how hard he is and then swoon for how sweet he is.

It's beyond. I know. Isn't it kind of though the love you've always been, I don't know. For me, it's, I feel like the love I have with my boys is the love I was always searching for. You know? Right. Or they're brought here and they're showing you things that like you really need to. Oh yeah.

Yeah. That's what Kevin says when Luca is particularly awful. He's like, why is this my lesson? Why is this? Yeah. Why is this my lesson? He is so hard. So yeah.

But it is. It's like there's nothing that I mean we have to we can't put him back in. Exactly. Can't trade him for like a kid who wants to quietly sit in color, which would have been nice if I had one who wanted to do that. But I feel like boys, in my experience with all the friends that just have boys, they don't just sit in color. Elliot does all day. That's his favorite thing to do. But still, he's like, no, yeah, he does.

He lives to sit in color. Never mind. I take that back. Just want like one calm. Are you done? Yes. Yeah. Actually, I had a hysterectomy.

I'm totally done. Did you? Yes. I not because I was like stoked to be done and wanted to hysterectomy, but I had some genetic tests that were just not nice. And so. Yeah. So because I'm done having kids and because I'm, I just decided that that was the, my doctors and I decided that that was the best. course of action. So a year, almost a year ago, I had a hysterectomy. So then I'm for sure done.

Yeah. But I was already done. You were done anyway. How are your hormones after that? I have a patch. Okay. So it's a little weird because, but I don't feel it. I never, I think whatever the dosage was was, was, works for me. So yeah. Other than like a couple of pounds that are newly in one area of my belly and like the glue marks on my butt, I'm, I'm totally fine. So what do they actually hysterectomy? Like, what do they actually remove or what are they doing? I had everything out. Everything.

Okay. Uterus. They take, allopian tubes, ovaries, and cervix and all gone. So then in its laparoscopic and it was a short surgery and really easy recovery, weird or like the emotional experience of having to do that? I mean, I'm, I hadn't started menopause. The whole thing was super kind of unexpected and sudden. My dad found out that he was a carrier for this thing called Lynch syndrome, which is kind of like Bracca is the common one for breast.

So this is more colon and for women, the female cancers, which are very hard to detect and often too late once you can detect them. And like for uterine cancer, they can check the lining of your uterus, but it changes every month all through the month because you've shed your uterine lining. And so like there really isn't a way to be sure and on top of it. So the recommendation was for me to do a full hysterectomy. And when I went in to meet with the doctor, I thought she would say, oh, you're 42. Like, let's wait a few years. And she said, I'd like you on the schedule before the summer. I was like, oh.

So I think, like, coming to terms with it, my girlfriends had a circle for me. And it was in my mom's backyard and my mother-in-law and my mother were there and my aunt and a group of, it was, like, that was the harder thing was to say, like, how does this change me? as a woman. And also, like, I'm a home birther. It's like, I'm definitely not the first to go to any sort of medical interventions. That's just like, that's not how it was raised. It's really just not my comfort zone. And so to have to go so extreme without any, like, and I didn't have cancer. I wasn't diagnosed with something where this was something to, like, relieve me of this awful thing that was happening. This is preventative. So the whole thing was such a mind fuck. But to be able to sit with my girlfriends and like honor this as my transition to this next phase of womanhood

was really so special. And then I feel like once that, my sister-in-law is like, I mean, we all joke that like I really love Kevin and he's really wonderful, but we all know that I married him for Amy. And so, I mean, Amy was literally in the tub with me when I had my second. And I am completely in love with her. She is beyond. And my mother-in-law and I have an incredible relationship also. So for them to also, Amy did this circle and led it and really like made that happen for me. And she had been at both of the births, my sons.

And so to like kind of close out that chapter was like made me ready to go through it. Like the surgery itself wasn't a big deal. But like the concept. of it was such a big deal. Right. Yeah, I don't even think. But now I have zero percent chance of ovarian and an uterine cancer. Or pregnancy. Or pregnancy. Or periods. Yeah. I mean, that's, yeah. I, so my mom had breast cancer and I want to check for the brocogen, you know, and I know, like, I feel like Angelina Julie, like famously. Yeah. Yeah. Removed her breasts because of that. And it's definitely on my mind. And I think if you can and have the means and whatever. Yeah.

To be preventative. But yeah, but to go through that and to share that special, you know, thing. It's beautiful. Another reason why women really, like having your girlfriends close and really really makes all the hard things less alienating. Absolutely. Yeah. I always say I wouldn't have survived without. You wouldn't?

No. Did it affect your sex drive? I think that the lexapro affects my sex drive more than the hormones. So I really have to like be to concentrate on it. Right. But on the other side, we don't have to worry about birth control. And in my 15 years of being with my husband and for most of it, I haven't been on the pill. I mean, I think I went off the pill probably just a few years into our relationship.

He's been pulling out forever. Right. He's like, this is fucking. fucking sweet. It is. So in some ways, it's better for our sex life. Because like for all these years, it's been really great for me. Yeah. He always has to be like a little bit careful. And now he doesn't have to be a little bit careful. So I think there is something that came out of it that was also better in our sex life. So there was a little bit of both. And I think with the Lexa Pro, that's probably the only thing that I feel. And I don't think I even really feel it, but I know it's a side effect. So I think I get in my

head about it. Sure. What's, like what's real? Yeah. Yeah. I could see that. But I have heard that about lexorhood.

But again. Yeah. It's the common side effect is that like it can make it harder to orgasm and harder to like get interested. Lower your libido. Yeah. But also like sometimes even without that, like you kind of have to like, even if you don't feel like it, you can feel like it.

You can feel like it. If you get started, it's like the getting started part that can be. Yeah, because you're hard. Yeah. because you're tired. Yeah. That's what I said to my husband. He was saying something about like,

I feel like it's a chore or something, which I'm like, don't say that. This is the third time this week. Okay, it is a chore. Oh my God, I mean? That's like three times a week,

which is like mind blowing to me. I mean, I'm not, I don't have a husband. But I'm like that at that point, it is a chore because I'm tired. I've got to put the kids down. We got to get up, you know. And like sometimes it is hard to, motivate to do that.

It's not like you're in your 20s and going out all night. Yeah. And then you're so busy because you have to go to Pilates the next day and let's maybe go to a work event. Right. You're definitely more tired. Yeah. The idea of what we thought was tiring then.

Oh my God. That's why anyone who like doesn't have kids when they're like, I'm so tired. I'm like, you have no idea. Like not a clue. No. Sleep deprivation is real. Yeah. But also multitasking, it's like even if I get eight hours of sleep, I'm still exhausted because I'm like in overdrive every minute of the waking hours of the day. I think that too. If I get it, if I get eight, which is like hardly ever. But if you do and you're like, I should be feeling great today. And I'm like, why am I still so tired? It's your brain never stop. No, it never does. Even if your body is like laying there for eight hours, like it's constantly planning, programming. You know. Also, like you're starting at a deficit.

Yeah, I guess yours is it. Mine is in constant motion. Yours is like a training my brain, love. She's training your brain, dude. Are you a planner? Are you type A? Are you, no. I'm like a good enough kind of.

Like I, I like to have a plan, but I'm not type A. Okay. When's your birthday? August 9th. No. What's weird? I was like I bet you're in August. But I thought maybe.

Is that Leo? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's Leo. And neither of us are type A. It would be like nice for. us to have like one person who wanted to like keep things all organized and tidy. But I think that

if I was a perfectionist, things would be so much harder. I just, I'm so lucky that that's not my personality type. It's not my, neither of my parents are perfectionist like that. It allows for so much more flexibility in doing the best you can do. And my brother is a lot more of a, he's much more type A. We're very close. And I love. love him very much, but he's definitely, he, like, went to architecture school. Like, his handwriting is all the same size. Like, we are not the same like that. It's crazy. You can have two different kids and then be completely opposite. Totally. Same parents. Like, you have that. It sounds like you have. Yeah. My mom and I were joking that I overshare so much and he undershairs so much. Why couldn't we?

Like, why couldn't I, like, have, just share a little less so he could share like a little bit more. I love that you overshare. I do too. But, but. That's just like what's the point of undersharing. Right. Also, then it's in. When you hold stuff in, it comes out in other ways. It can come out in sickness. Oh.

It can come out and kind of get eyes and hair falling out and all of it and hives that can just come out. It's going to come out. It's so much easier to just like speak it out. I feel like it's generous. Thank you. Mm-hmm. It is. It's generous to the other person because then they feel a little bit less of whatever they're feeling.

because they're like, oh, she said it for me, you know? Oh, yeah. I do think it's a generous quality. Rob's an undersherer. Sting Rob, stingy Rob, no. I think a lot of men are undershares. And I think some of that, I mean, a lot of that's just cultural, that we're raised to, like, women, like, gab and gossip in a way that, like, is part of our culture.

And that doesn't mean that, like, all women do that, or that all women are comfortable having women friends or that men don't share, I happen to have a father that's very open and very communicative about feelings and experiences. And I think that having grown up with that being normalized is really helpful. Is Kevin? No, but he's open.

But he's definitely not an oversharer. Does he still make music? Yeah. Does he? He does. He doesn't make music as much as he would like or I would like. But he still, he recently got a new good. and I think to have some reason to pick it up.

And instead of putting it away, it's in the living room. And I think having it in front of him really helps. And he'll even find ways where, like, for his business Instagram, if he needs to make a video, then he'll, instead of licensing music, he'll, like, go in his studio and make something. And I think tapping back into that part of himself, especially as a creative, creative person who does something creative professionally, finding that that becomes your only creative outlet, which is always related to money, which takes out the creativity. The whole thing is really messy when what you do is creative and that becomes the only thing you do. So reminding him

that he needs to play music in order to stay. Also, the more you use, the more you have when it comes to ideas and creativity. And I've started to do ceramics and I had done. I had done. it when I was younger, but now I really try to carve out as much time as I can for it because if, and I think it makes me do better creative work for my job just to have another outlet. That's having that outlet. Yes. And for, I used to be able to go to the studio more and lately I haven't found the time. But Alex, who's my bright hand at work, got me a little wheel for my birthday.

And it's like, right now it's next to my boy's toilet because it was raining and I like had to just bring it inside. And that's the only place that's like, buy it. It has a door that goes outside and I sit outside on a toddler chair and it's really small. And I use the hose to clean up. And so it's definitely not ideal. But it is so wonderful. And it doesn't matter if anything is ugly.

And it doesn't matter if it's fabulous. And it doesn't matter if I squish it. It's like to have something to do that isn't for any other reason. Right. And then I just give pieces away and I love it. That is so sweet. I love that. I've always wanted to take that up.

I got Elliott one. A wheel? A little to go on the table. My daughter's in ceramics class at the community center, and she loves it. She comes home with pieces, and she just, I'm like envy. It's supposed to be good because it uses both sides here. Yeah, like how piano does too. It's very meditative.

I could use that, you guys. His sides and my brain needs my own size. Yeah, perils your dexterity. Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. And yeah, she loves it. But yeah, I think there's a bunch of studios around it. And it's not.

You kind of have to go for a while because it takes, even if you only make one thing, you have to go back. First, it has to dry. Then you have to trim it. Right, right. Then you have to come back and glaze it and then fire it again. So it does take a little while. Yeah. But the fact you can just like do it at home.

Yeah. And I let it dry and I put on the counter. And then when it's dry, I drop it off because the studio is right by my kid's school. So even if I don't have time to go and work there, I can drop it off. Oh, that's so awesome. I think for me like cooking is a lot like that. You know, just like therapeutic, like turning it off and doing something for yourself. Yeah.

Mine is yoga. I feel like that's like my. She loves yoga. I do. Yeah. I do. It's good for all of it. Yeah.

I'm always like, I can't do yoga. She gets so mad. I do get mad. I want her to do it. That it won't be just for you. I don't want her to do it with me. Let's get that straight. You're like, you just need to do it yourself.

No, just like what it does for my. nervous system. Yeah, you know. And I did recently start the Peloton and Rob high-fived me yesterday morning. I felt really seen. She sent a screenshot of his name coming up on her Peloton screen or it's in the class just for you. Thank you. Thank you. How do you know she was in the class? It tells you. I just finished mine and then it said I had someone I knew. Like it just has your contacts or something? Yeah, we're friends on there. Oh, you guys are You guys are my only friend. We have one. It has like laundry piled on it in the garage.

Yeah. I was convinced. Like, of course, during the lockdown of the pandemic, I was like, I'm going to get a palaton. Wait, why are you laughing? We did. I just know because I can like picture myself. Like, there's no way.

I think I'd get motion to psych. This is my real thing. I don't think you would. No. I'm, what if you could? Really? You get motion sick, Rob? Do you take dramamine on boats? Yes.

You do? Yeah. Yeah, I don't think you would get motion sickness. All right. I have no excuse. No excuse. It's actually really hard. It's really hard. I think that for me would be more of the deterrent.

It's like how hard it is. There's easy classes, though. There's easy classes. The hard thing is getting on it. That's the hard. Yeah. Making yourself do it. Yeah.

And like I happen to be kind of a lazy exerciser. Like, you know, like if I'm taking a little. jog, I'll be like, okay, to the stop sign. Oh, yeah. Well, actually, like, maybe, like, halfway to the stop sign. Right. And then I'll be like, oh, I made three driveway. Like, I'm totally, like, good for you.

Yeah. I am not great at it. So I don't, like, interact with anybody on there. Or sometimes I'll, like, listen to, like, Krishna Das and go on a trail ride. It's like, I can't, I can't get into being, like, barked out. Wait, do they? They can't see you.

No. No. No. No. No. So you don't have to. And like you can see who's like winning or like doing the best or whatever, but you also can hide it. Like I'm in the bottom third every time. Me too. Oh yeah. Or bottom 10 people. I would feel judged. Are you competitive? No. Don't see you though. No. Even in fashion? No. Awesome. That's a really great quality. I feel like there's enough to go around. There is. I mean, I can feel sorry for myself about something. Like, I can feel hard on myself, but I don't feel like I need to work harder to be like her. Correct. Right. Yeah. So did you ever have that even when you were young? Not really. Yeah. I mean, probably with my brother, but like, like, I want to be successful, but I don't need to be successful at the expense of anybody else's success. And I don't really think that that promotes success. And you and Kevin seem like super supportive of each other and there's no competition between.

Well, we're both. She's like except with my husband. Kind of. Yeah, except with my husband. Although we are an amazing team. We are both very dominant personalities. Oh, interesting. He's, he's an Aries.

I'm a Leo. Like, we're very fiery. We're both used to being leaders in our own worlds. And I think he's like, I came in and you were like the queen of your world. and then I had to kind of like live in your world for a while and like he got tired of having to be. And so because he's he's really dominant in his own way. So we definitely contend towards being competitive with each other, but also kind of only on the surface. We're really supportive of each other.

Yeah. Even you're like, I just, I wish he was making more music. It's just so sweet. But also that's like we all. fell in love at a different state of our lives. Like I, it was like he would write songs and like he was in a band. Yeah, I remember. It was like, it was so hot.

And being able to see him on stage that was such a big part of our early years together. Right. So to not have that. And, um, right. So it's something like nostalgic and brings back that time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I totally get that. I, yeah. So I want it for him because I also see that it fulfills him. but I also want it for me because it's hot. Right. And I like, no, I get something from it. Yeah. That's why I want you to do it.

Yeah. Well, it's like the annual, you have to sing this song for me on my birthday. He's like, oh. Like he'd rather sing for a room full of people than to just like have this awkward, like, sit in front of me. But I love it. He knows I love it. So that's really cute. Yeah.

That's really cute. That's really cute. You hear that, Kevin? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Kevin. We're going to play the song on here. Playing the song.

Yeah, we should, we have to embarrass him somehow, right? Well, is that embarrassing or is that just promoting? It's promoting. It's going to be amazing. So amazing. No, because it'll be good. I'm sure you could think, or I could ask. We could phone a friend.

Yeah. We can definitely call the people. Should we do the thing that we're going to do? Yeah. Yeah. We have a new game. Rob's going to be mad. Oh, yeah.

Clear it with Rob. Okay. all going to say this is our own circle we're all going to say two truths and a lie and then we have to try to figure out which one the lie is yeah it's fun

okay I have three because I thought of them okay I didn't think of them okay I have three well it's kind of like well you know me so whatever it's just a game um soup plantation is my favorite restaurant I'm good at basketball and I've never been in a helicopter.

You're not good at basketball. When do I reveal thing? Once everybody's gone. I think you've never been in a helicopter. Okay. I just want to change my answer to that one. You want to? Mm-hmm.

Okay. Because I think she thinks she's good at basketball. She for sure thinks she's good at basketball, guys. And I know Sue Plantation's true. And she loves Super Plantation. So she's never been in a helicopter. She has been in a helicopter because didn't you get helicopter to the hospital when they used the Jaws of Life? She doesn't remember being in it.

She doesn't remember being in a helicopter because she was unconscious. Now do I answer? Yeah. Because you guys have all gone. The lie was never been in a helicopter. But it wasn't because of the Jaws of Life. I forgot about that one. I was in a helicopter in Dubai.

What? That was what I thought of. No, the lie is I've never been in a helicopter because I have been in a helicopter and the helicopter I thought of was the one I went in in Dubai. I completely forgot that I had been in a helicopter unconscious after car accident

when I was... No, no, no, no, no. You did it wrong. I did. Because it's the lie. Have you been in a helicopter in Dubai? That's been none. That's the lie that I've never been in a helicopter.

Okay, got it. Okay. I know I make sense. Rachel, are you with me? But you have been in a helicopter. Right. So that's the lie that I've never been in a helicopter. Yeah, I guess that's right.

Why is my brain not getting it? I was reversed on that too, but now I'm better. I know I did this right. And I am good at basketball. I know I'm little, but do you not remember Mugsy Boats? I know. I'm dating myself. I remember Mugsy.

He promoted Mini Chips O'Hoy when we were kids. This is all the TV I watched that we talked about, guys. Okay, Lou, go. I think Rob should go. Okay, Rob. All right. My favorite restaurant as a kid was Sabaros. That has to be true.

I used to be a projectionist at a movie theater. And I've never been in a helicopter. He's never been in a helicopter. The lies Sabarrows. No. The lies the helicopter. Yeah. Yeah, I've been an helicopter.

You have? So Sabarro's was the lie? No. I've never been in a helicopter. He took your script. I didn't get my own thing. This game is real confusing. It's just my lie is confusing that you adopt it.

The double negative. Yeah. I know. Okay. We're doing great. I understand what you mean like the double net because it's confusing to the brain. It is. Don't use a never as your lie.

All right. I'm an example of how not to play this name. Okay. I'm lactose intolerant. I'm ambidextrious. And my favorite food is pizza. Well, two of those contradict. Yeah, because lactose intolerant in pizza.

You can't have your favorite thing be something you can't eat. Pizza is not your favorite thing. Yeah, I'm going to. pizza's a lie. I'm gonna, I'm gonna say pizza's a lie. It's tacos. Yeah.

No. It is pizza. Oh, I did two. Oh. Because you're a hepatitis. You guys are killing. You guys are killing this game.

Yeah. I did two. It was her games too. She just did two lies in a truth. Wait, what was the other life? Oh, I'm not, I'm not lactose intolerant. intolerant either.

Yeah, you are. Oh, yeah, I am. Oh. I quit. Rob's like, this is why everything has to be cleared through me. Please play with us. Yeah. We've set you up to do great, though.

Okay, but why, like, my brain isn't functional? No, because it's hard. Yeah, you have to tell people that's at, like, the beginning of the interview, so they got time to think. Well, then they're in their heads. Okay. I've traveled to Bolivia. I've had malaria. And my favorite ice cream is chocolate.

I feel really sorry that you had malaria. Maybe it's my life. Maybe it's the lie. I think you like vanilla or strawberry. Do we see it? Make a vanilla ice cream? No. I'm vanilla over chocolate, so it's not an insult.

That's fair. I am too. I am too. So you're safe? I just can't think that... I feel like chocolate isn't your favorite ice cream, though. That's what I'm going with. Me too.

That's what you're going with? Yeah. I've never been to Bolivia. Oh my God. You fucking had malaria? I did. Can you explain? Yes.

When I was 19, I did like a program in Kenya for a summer and I got so sick. I was living with the family and I got so, so sick. And I stopped taking the, at the, now I think there's better pills you can take, but it was making me so crazy and I was having these horrible dreams and feeling like super sick. So I stopped taking the larium that I had. And I had to like get, I was 19. I had to get from this village to like the Peace Corps doctor, however many hours. away and it was I like don't even know how I got there. I was like hallucinating with fever. Oh my God. And I was on a like a truck with like a goat and like people I had to like write down when I

wasn't like where I had to go and I would just show someone and I don't even know, but I ended up getting to where I needed to go and got a shot and was way better. But it was so gnarly and I was so young and I was so, it was so scary by myself. That's horrible. It was horrible. But also then it was like, I survived it. I survived malaria. Yeah, I survived malaria. All so that you can bring it here for the two truths and a lie. You're the only one that actually played the game. I won the game. Yeah, you won the game. The girl who's not so competitive. Yeah. Oh man, we're going to have to work on our skills there. I legit did two lies.

You literally did two lies. Whatever. Three. You did. You actually did three. I didn't. You didn't. No.

Yeah. We wanted to switch it up because normally we do fuck Mary Kill at the end. And we're like, we're going to do a different game. Rob's like, you idiot. Dummed up. It was entertaining. To say the least. Oh, my goodness.

Oh, what about, did we have any of those questions? Maybe just a couple, safe ones. Not too, not too crazy. These are the noes. Where did you put the yes? What's your biggest panty dropper? Her face. It's not expecting that.

I think Kevin playing the song for me on my birthday. Yeah. Perfect. What are your thoughts on unsolicited dickpick? Oh, I don't want that. No. Unsolicited? No.

Nobody does. Well, maybe men like that... Want dickpicks? Unsolicited dickpicks? No. What? Go for it, Rachel. This girl loves this question.

You know what it is, Rob? So the three people? No. No. The period sex? No. If you could only watch one movie for the rest of it.

What would you pick? I think I'd pick waiting for Guffman. Oh, good. So funny. You came up with that very easily. Because I feel like I have been waiting. Now I'm going to go. Yeah, maybe.

Yeah. Maybe I need to go home and watch that. Yeah. I haven't watched that in a long time. We're inspiring. Great question. You heard it here. Yeah.

Are there dreams inside? of you that you've yet to fulfill. Yes. I hope that I always do. I hope that at 90, I still have dreams that I want to fulfill. I think that having stuff to reach for is like part of what has to get us up every day.

Yeah. I mean, I've been doing the same job for 20 years. Like I know that there's something for the next, that at some point there will be another professional iteration that maybe isn't this. And I don't know what that is or if that's, you know, Maybe I'll be a doula. Maybe I'll be a ceramicist.

Maybe I'll be a podcast. Yeah. Dreams can come true. Yeah. And also thinking about like being inspired by people who have moved in the last couple years and thinking about like, I was with some friends last night and one moved to Kauai and is like, should I come back? And one just moved to Hudson Valley. And it's like such a different experience than living here.

She was saying like, it's like I was like a. tomato plant in this pot and then I was taken out of the pot and now I'm this giant like, where do you find your edges and like how much potential that has? So I hope that that there continue to dream about a million things. Yeah. I like that. I do too. I like the tomato pot analogy. I know. That stuck with me. Yeah, I like it. Like you need a bigger pot and but also like do you need a pot or can you just like get planted and then have infinite? Oh. And we don't know always what that is.

It's going to change all the time. Yeah. It can be very unnerving to not know and untethered but also really exciting. I haven't had anything like that. Like in so long I haven't lived in the same house for 10 years. Yeah. I've been in my business for 20 years and like the idea of like what they're like, you know, I'm like in a tomato pot.

Sure. Right. And I'm not ready to get out of the tomato pop, but eventually, like, how exciting. Yeah. That is exciting. I feel like when I moved away, because we moved away for three years up north for a bit, and I feel like that did that for me. Not just being there, but also coming back. I feel more free in L.A. and I feel like I have more room for growth than I did before I left. Yeah. And perspective and probably an appreciation for this. Yeah. You have to love, yeah. Oh, I am very into L.A. no. Did you have another card or no? These are not good for her.

Okay. I mean, they're not. Okay, no. They don't apply to you. This was such an amazing conversation and I just love how open you were and willing to share all that you shared. Thank you. Thank you for bringing that. Yeah.

Rob, you failed to mention a lot of synchronicities that happened. I don't think I can talk about most of them. Why? They're all related to things that I'm not allowed to say because of you. Because of me? Things that you don't want said. People should know. Shut up.

That we talk about a lot of things that have to be cut out. I've been coughing for two weeks. Two and a half weeks. Is it getting any better? Calvin's also been coughing for like a week. I don't know. I'm really sick of it, though. He doesn't know how to cough.

What does he do? Well, he doesn't know how to clear his throat. Oh, bless you. He doesn't know how to clear his throat. Sorry. He doesn't know to clear his throat, so he's just like, yeah, aggressively coughing. And then Vincent will mimic him. Aw.

Bless you. My God. My allergies are crazy. My God. All right, what we got? What we got today, guys? You both are on your phones. I'm a good video.

I love you. Is he saying I love you? That's what sounds like. He's like, look at his tongue. I read something that said babies usually say da-da first because... The sound is easier to make? No, because they don't identify separate from their mother until they're older. like their mom is them, you know?

Like they're part of the mom. So the first person that they know, if there's dad in the picture, is dada. And that's why they say dada first. I heard it was what Rob said. I always heard that too. But then I read that recently and I thought, well, I don't know if it's true or not,

but it was an interesting. He'll say mama when he's like upset and crying. That's really old time. But he said dad at first, right? Yeah. And now he calls everything. Bus. B.

His point. The bus. Yeah. He loves trucks and buses. That's really cute. When I take him to Maru and a bus comes by, he like, freaks out he goes, bus, bus, bus. Why do they like them so much?

I feel like dump trucks. They're like garbage trucks. They love garbage trucks. They call our kids, well, Shepard Garby. They say Garby and then every week, when the garbage truck comes, he goes and runs and finds Jeff makes him take him outside to see it. Yeah.

It's a phenomenon. This is Elliot? This is Jeff. This is my brother. I was going to say your brother, but... Speaking of which, I got in a fight with my brother last night, which was not fun. I would love to hear your guys' opinion. Maybe I was wrong.

Let's hear it. Okay. So I was in class yesterday, and I get these text messages from Elliot saying, help me, help me. David just yelled at me and cussed at me. And I was like, okay. So, and then he texts me back. Are they still budding heads, by the way?

Yeah, they butt heads. Then he texts me back saying, we made up, we're good. So when I get home, I sit the two of them down and say, what happened? Your brother and Elliot. My brother and Elliot. I said, what happened, guys? And Elliot tells me what happened was Shepherd hurt his finger and was crying hysterically. And my brother picked him up and said, oh, I don't think that hurts.

that bad. And Elliot got defensive for him and he was like, he's a baby. And Elliot had been yelling at my brother all day. It was my brother's birthday too. So it's like, so happy birthday. So happy birthday. So Elliot was relentless yesterday. And at a certain point, my brother just simply yelled, stop fucking yelling at me. We don't do that. We don't cuss at our children under any circumstances that's never happened. So it freaked Elliot out. So when he's telling me this conversation, I explained to Elliot, you cannot yell it,

your uncle constantly, it's relentless, it's working on his nerves, all these things. And I said, and David, maybe we can agree not to cusset Elliot. He got so mad at me for that. David did? So mad at me, saying that it was disrespectful because basically I'm, what's the word? Momsplaining?

Negating him. Or what's, like, there's another word. You're negating your brother? No, it's the word when you, um. Neglect? No. When you, when you throw someone under the bus. Yeah, but it's, or when the other parent.

Undermining. Yeah. We got there. Say, say, say that again. And so he was basically saying I was undermining him. and I hear what he's saying. He's like, because they're already having a hard time getting long. And he's there the one taking care of him all day.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. And you sat him down like he was another child and talked to him like he was the third kid. Yeah. Instead of privately. I understand. He said.

He said the only thing I ask is not that you say it, but that you do it privately as adults. Right. He's right. Yeah, I think he's right. He's right. But he wasn't right to. yell fucking at a seven-year-old because, you know, but he has a point as well. Right. And he's like, you know, you have to know, I love your kids with all my heart.

And I would never, and I do trust him completely. Like, he would never be mean to them. He was just more frustrated, like, stop fucking yelling at me. Yeah. You know, but then him and Jeff talked about it because then the story got told to Jeff. From whom? From Elliot. And we were sitting there. And Jeff simply goes to Elliot. Well, you shouldn't yell at adults. Right. And so then... So Jeff knew how to handle it.

Right. So then when they left the table, David took my brother aside and thanked him. Jeff took your brother aside. Yes. David took Jeff aside and thanked him for the way he handled it. In front of you. He made sure you saw him.

No, I wasn't there for that. But then Jeff's like, yeah, that's what Olivia does to me too. Like sits Jeff, you sit Jeff down? But he just threw you under the bus, like you threw him under the bus. Jeff? Jeff threw you under the bus, just like you threw David under the bus. Yeah, well, I do. When there's a big fight in the house, and this is what my brother was saying, he goes, yeah, but when you do that with Jeff, you guys are the parents.

Right. Like, that's different. But also you shouldn't do that to Jeff in front of the kids either. But if Jeff cussed at the kids, I would have. absolutely saying, Jeff, do you think we could agree to not cusset the kids? But they're saying you should do that in private, not in front of the child. Yeah, that's how Natalie and I handle it. How about you, Rachel, do you have any thoughts on conflict in front of children? I was going to say, I understand in the moment, Lou, if it happens and you just say to Jeff, like, you know, we don't, we don't, we don't

cuss at the kid. Like, that'll just come out naturally, right? But yes, I do agree. I think that certain things need to be handled in private. Yeah, I can see it. happening like in the heat of the moment. I'm actually surprised that Natalie will like hold her tongue. If there's something good. She also very critical. But she can I guess, yeah, I need to work on that. She can hold back if like Calvin's there to not like completely undermine what I'm saying.

So that he doesn't listen. It is hard. It's very hard. Yeah. Especially when you know you're right. Well, apparently. in this situation. No, I'm not saying you weren't totally right.

You were right about the situation. Yeah, but not cussing. But it is, it's more that Elliot can't yell all day or whatever it was. Is that what just like? At adults. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, he's like, or anyone. Right. Yeah. And you're like, no, it's fine. You can yell at your brother all day alone. Yeah. Okay. So look at teachable moment.

Well. It takes a lot. to be able to acknowledge when you're wrong. Yeah, I guess I was wrong in that situation. I wasn't totally like, oh, you're wrong. But hearing how Jeff handled it, Jeff really has had some wise things lately. He's just really sometimes, not always.

That guy's insane. Can I tell you guys something? Yeah. I freaking, I woke up the other day on a Saturday and my brother's like your husband's on one. And I was like, what's up? He's like, he's been up a long time. And then Jeff walks in the room.

He's been going for hours. It's like seven in the morning on a Saturday. And I'm like, what is up? And he's like, I just got off the roof. I just, he's like, I went up to watch the sunrise and finish a book on the roof. And I was like, I think you need help. I think you need to move. Yeah, wait, what is going on?

So do you find that normal? Knowing Jeff, I'm like, yeah, he went on the roof. He wanted a nice little view to peaceful to read his book. There's not a lot of peace in your household. Everyone was sleeping. It was the middle of the night. What time did he wake up to go up there? 1 a.m.

He got up at 1 a.m. And stayed up there until 6? I don't know if he was on the roof the whole time. I'm just thinking, yeah, is he uncomfortable? like that would hurt my butt. I don't know. All I know is the dude took a book up onto the roof and watched the sun rise while reading his book.

What book was he reading? He wants to tell me all about it. Fifty shades of gray. I just thought it was a bit extra. But knowing Jeff, it's like, no, like I see Jeff going on. Is he an insomniac? Does he have a problem sleeping? He's, I don't know what he, I don't know.

I just love David being like, She had your husband's on one. He said he came into the, into the, that Dave, we got up to go pee in the middle of the night at like three in the morning. And Jeff's like, you're going to go to the meeting in the morning, man? Like, you're going to, he's like like a drill sergeant in the middle of the night.

That's pretty funny. I love when Jeff gets on one, though. The stories are endless. Oh, I just. Just that you have your brother as a witness now. Because like you, it's like whatever. It's your husband, you know. But now you have another party just being like.

So we have a new nanny. Another new nanny? No, no. It's the same nanny. Okay. And she's always on her phone, like on phone calls. Like talking on the phone? Yeah.

Well, I work in the basement. Right. So I can hear upstairs. And Natalie, like, is on the back studio. So she's not around to see it. Yeah. So I've said to Natalie a couple times, like, man, she's on her phone a lot. And she said, do you want me to say something to her?

And I was like, I don't know. I don't think so because it's going to be awkward. And I'd rather just leave it, even though it seems weird that she's on her phone all the time. Is that not weird? I've had that issue. What did you do? Well, and the thing is Natalie has no problem just like saying things to her. How would she do it?

Can you? She would text her. And say? I don't know. I want you to try and figure out. Like how would Natalie do it? She sent me a text that she's texted her yesterday. I think I need to be a little bit more like Natalie.

Also, I have two small feedback things. I would love to note with you before I forget. Oh, dang. Could you please make sure to wake Vincent up between 215 and 230 every day unless I tell you something different? But that way, it can be his default wake up time and I don't have to text. with the time. And the other thing is making sure Vinny has changed within 15 to 20 minutes of pooping, please. He has such sensitive skin.

I want to make sure he doesn't get a diaper rash if possible. That's great. My response was just awkward. Yeah, no, that's intense. No, the intense part is like, can I offer you some feedback, basically? Feedback. Yeah. Like, I don't know.

I'd be scared of Natalie if I was. I'd be petrified. I'm like a little scared of Natalie as is. I mean, I don't know. So, so I, like, I feel like the nanny might hate. No, but they like, they get along and they like, she talks to her about her like dating life. Okay, okay.

So they're homies. I think if you get Natalie, you get that it's not. It's just how she's very straightforward. It's a hundred percent exactly how Jeff. Yeah. Would text the nanny. Yeah. You'd be like, listen.

This, da, da, da, da. Yeah. And then the nanny likes. I barely say like, hi. I'll say hi to her. Like, good morning. And that's like our interactions. So me telling her anything.

But I think the phone thing would sound like it's coming from me because I'm the only one that would know that she's on the phone. So she's just going to hate you. Yeah. So but isn't there a way to say it where it's like... I think she's like my sister. My sister's that way where she just has to be talking to someone all the time. That's how she always was.

Where she'll just like... How old is she? She's in her 20. 20s, like early 20s. I'm the same way. I'm not going to lie. You need to be talking to someone? I talk to you.

Oh, I know. Day. Like, we don't stop talking. And then she'll drive to me and we're still talking on the phone. You know what I mean? Like, if I'm doing the things and like do fold in whatever and putting, like, I'm on the phone. Yeah. Which I guess if the scenario is she, which I think she's wearing like AirPods.

Mm-hmm. And she's hands free. Mm-hmm. I guess it really doesn't matter. Is she doing? She's just talking. It's not like she's on the phone. I went up to get some water and like she's feeding Vincent and she has headphones in and is like talking to someone on the phone.

See, that would bother me because I'd want her present with the baby. Yeah. So that I would say you could say something about. Like I'm fine. Like you could even say like Natalie can say it if you want. Like it's totally fine. Wait, does Natalie agree though that she shouldn't be on the phone? She doesn't witness it.

Okay. I'm the one witnessing because I can hear. hear it. And then she's always like, sounds like you want me to say something. My response is, no, I'm just, it's just observing it. This is what I would say in that situation. I would say, I just want you to know it's 100% cool and fine if you're on the phone. When the baby's down, when the baby's taking a nap, or if you, you know, the baby's engaged in something. But when it comes time to feeding and playing, these are really learning rich opportunities to have interaction and we want to make sure to be stimulating the most interaction we possibly can.

That's what I would say. Yeah. I think my initial reluctance was that we really need a nanny and need help and it's hard to find a nanny. Mm-hmm. But I also think like she needs the job. She needs the work. She likes the job.

She likes the work. She likes the kids. Yeah. She likes the boys. Does Calvin like her? Yeah. I mean, Calvin's at camp most of the time. So it's really just her and Vincent.

So I'm less concerned about that now. Of like, well, she's going to hate this and she's going to quit. Oh, yeah. I mean, I think that talking is better than just like having your phone down texting all day. Yeah. Right, right. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I agree.

Or whatever. Like her phone in her hand, which is different. No, no, it's on actual phone calls. That's so weird to me because I hate talking on the phone. So I'm like, I could never. Except for the phone to me. I talk to like three people on the phone. You, my mom, and Leah.

Yeah. Sometimes Jill. Yeah. But I don't talk to people on the phone otherwise. We're people. Well, no, but I mean like the mass. Like real people. Yeah, like real people.

Like famous people. She means famous people. Oh. That's Rob. Yeah, that's Rob. Rob only talks to famous people. He only goes to coffee with famous people. You seen anyone lately?

No. Literally no. No. Are you lonely? Am I lonely? Are you texting me, Rob? Are you lonesome tonight? You know, I have come to be a little too comfortable with just cuddling with my daughter.

I often think, like, I don't know if I ever want. Anyone else in my bed again? Oh, dear me and my spinsterisms. We've talked about this a lot. I think couples who have separate bedrooms or separate beds. Was I watching something or was I reading something? Oh, watching. A couple slept in separate beds.

Was it I love Lucy? I always wondered as a kid, you know? Yeah. Because that's one of my favorite shows of all times. they weren't separate twin beds, but that was very common in the 50s. No, it's not that it was common in the 50s, is that they weren't allowed to show it on TV? Correct. But it was common for people to sleep separately then, wasn't it?

That's what one would think because of the way television portrayed it, but I don't think so. That was a TV thing. We need to check this. Yeah, we do. How would you feel about sleeping in a separate bed or having your own? She does. Great. Oh, you do. I try to stay very far away from Jeff while I sleep because he snores. That's a thing, okay?

It's awful. I'm scared like whomever, whenever, if they snore, I don't think I can do it. I will never sleep. You don't think you could do what? Like sleep next to someone every night that snores. I don't understand. And you're too codependent to? sleep in a different room? No.

I could definitely sleep in a different room, but... But there's a solution. But not, what if it's like the beginning and you want to be like with the person?

Yeah, you get bad sleep. You tell them, they're snoring and you can't sleep. I feel like you get bad sleep no matter what, though. Like when you first start dating someone, people that can just sleep, I find more instances, men can just fall asleep,

sleep great, whatever. The first couple nights, like a woman is with like a new, whatever, and you're sleeping over, even if I was sleeping over with like someone who was a new friend. That was a girl and it's not romantic. I don't think I could sleep soundly.

What do you worry? Is it being in a different environment or is it you're worried about something? Because I will have a hard time sleeping at a different place. Yeah, at a different place for sure. Someone in my bed could be anyone. No, I think even someone new in my bed, I'd be like, like not be able to sleep fully. Do you think you're going to do?

No. What is it? That's what I was thinking. What are you concerned about? No, it's just a comfort thing. I don't know. I don't know. The wake up, the wake up routine with someone new. Like, like morning breath, like all of it, you know?

Yeah, it's a thing. Guys, I find don't care. Because they don't. Yeah. They're like, hey, good morning. Yeah, and you're like. You are putting all this weight on it. And then they don't care at all.

So it's all for nothing. I mean, you know, my mind had a little hamster that just doesn't stop. I think most people feel that way. The first, the beginning, it's hard to sleep. Because you're like, you know. Because you're concerned about farting? No. I'm concerned about tuning.

I'm not. You know, but I was watching a movie last night. And it was just like this couple that started. dating. And you know that first, like, all the questions and, like, the vibing and the flirting. And it was so cute. And I was like paying attention to what they were asking each other. For next time you're on a date? No. Rob. Okay. For what? Just, you were just paying attention. She's like I was just actually paying attention at the movie. I was for once in my life. I was paying attention. But you know, like the questions. And I'm like,

is that cheesy or is that genuine? Like, where do you want to go? go in life. I want to go to soup plantation because it doesn't exist anymore. Ugh. I'm kidding. I do want to go there but no, I definitely want to go to the soup plantation. I definitely. No,

I mean, I would, yeah, but like you know, just those questions, I think it's cool to watch things or read things that really make you think. It's a new thing for me paying attention. Yeah. It's wild, right? It's crazy. That there's like content out there that makes you

think a little bit. You know, like the past live stuff, what we've touched on, and it's like sometimes you'll know things, you've no idea how. Mm-hmm. We were playing trivia on my family vacation, and I knew so many things. No idea how. Really? Yes.

Like what? Well, it's also because you watch Jeopardy every night before you go to bed. But how do I know all the answers to Jeopardy? It's the same point. I didn't learn all that stuff. I think you probably learn this stuff. You just have a terrible memory, so you don't remember where. No, like, there was one question that was so.

obscure and I was like that's when the gold rush started and da-da-da blah blah blah and they're like that is literally exactly the answer and the date no clue that's creepy I know so maybe I was in the gold rush is my point in my past life maybe because I know it's not that you're studying imagine if that's my new thing is studying the gold rush what game what game were you playing I don't know is it Bezzer we're not sure I wasn't reading the questions I don't know any of that stuff But don't you think it's interesting, though, when you know things, you've no idea how? All the time. Yeah.

There's things that come out of my mouth constantly. You know, you'll be like, repeat that. I'm like, I can't. No, yeah. I have no fucking idea where that came from. Yeah. Not a clue. How about you?

Rob's like, I know nothing. Have you guys been watching the new season of Righteous Jumpstones? I've never seen any righteous jumps. You should. It's really funny. It's very good. All right. Have you not seen any of it?

I saw the first season. this season. Yeah. They're in like three or four now. Really? Yeah. What do I need to watch? You watch Beef yet?

No. That was great. I'll download that. Okay. I still have bad sisters to watch. Bad sisters is good. I haven't watched that either. Oh.

We could do that together. Drops of God on Apple TV plus is good. We just finished that. Drops of God. Any movies? Sometimes I like to watch a movie on a plane. You should watch Infinity Pool Alex Scarsguard

No he recommends things that are never going to watch She wants to watch like you've got mail An infinity pool You should watch Infinity Pool with Mia Goss and Alexander Scarsguard No she's not coming to Probably not It's about they're on vacation And

In an infinity pool Nope there's an infinity pool though And he accidentally runs someone over when they're like, they go on an excursion. They're told not to leave the resort. They're an inclusive resort. But they run off with this like other couple. Yeah.

And as they're driving back, he like hits a farmer and kills the farmer in the middle of the night because the lights and the car are like going out. And then the like rules of that country are if that happens, the youngest son of the person you killed gets to kill you. What? Like it's death penalty. But you can bribe the cops to, they'll clone you and kill your clone. Like who thinks of this stuff?

You know what I mean? Yeah, I don't know. So then there's all these, like, rich people that are, like, vacation here and just, they have enough money that they break all these rules, do all this crazy shit, and then just have their clones killed all the time. And it's just this, like, weird game for them. Would you be down with them cloning you, okay? If they were like, okay, Rob, we're going to clone you.

And then that way, if any of your organs go bad or anything, we can take it from your clone, would you allow them to do that so that you could live a longer life? I think I would need to be, I would need to need the organ before then. But you don't feel that. option. It's going to take too long. Is it like a stem cell decision when a baby's born? That's the movie

with Scarlett Johansson and you and McGregor. What? The island. I never saw it. I think that was what it was called? Where they like live in this island and they're just clones of these rich people.

People who clone their dogs. Does the dog come back with the same personality? Or just look exactly the same? I'm sure. I mean... Wait, people. People do that? Yes.

You have not heard this? What do you mean? You're not transferring consciousness to the clone. Yeah, you can't do that. Well, that's what I'm saying. I'm asking to the question. But it's the like nurture versus nature debate. Like there are some personality traits that are inherent genetically, I'm sure, in the dog.

Right. And then others. You've heard of people cloning their dogs. You didn't like Barbara Streisand or. Maybe. Someone cloned her dogs a bunch. Yeah. It's a thing.

I don't like my dog enough to do that. You don't like your dog enough to keep her. I love her, kind of. Would you clone yourself? I would if it meant less work for me, like I could just be like, hey, Jeff, take this one. I'm going out with my friends and let him have my clone for the night. I think there would have to be...

Do you know what I mean? There'd have to be some, like, definition of, like, the consciousness of the clone. Well, that's what I was going to say. That would matter. If I knew I was going to die, and I would be leaving my daughter. Yeah. If I could have a clone that was exactly me, I would do it.

So she wouldn't be left without a mom. But you'd have to know that you could still trust that clone. Is that weird? No, I would do it too, but I would take the organs from the clone and try and keep me alive. Just switch your brains. Just harvesting clones. Yeah. Even though, like, what if, I mean, that clone is going to be a conscious human that has thoughts and you're fine, just like, I'm going to take your heart now and kill.

What if it turns into single white female? The clone. I mean, I can imagine there's some shady clones, some super cuss clones out there. Well, there's definitely like moral implications there. Yeah, there is. This is now a being. Yeah, I mean, I think the whole AI thing in general scares me.

Oh, my gosh. This is an AI. We're talking about clones. I know, but it's like the same premise of like making. I don't connect those two. I heard like Frank Sinatra singing ludicrous. Did you send that to me? No, but I heard that also.

Oh. And it was like, that's Frank Sinatra, rapping, singing ludicrous. That's really weird. It's really weird. Olivia's mom slept with Frank Sinatra. Did she? Yeah.

Everyone should know that. I mean, that is a big thing. Yeah, that deserves a fist bump. Isn't it, isn't it rumored that Mia Farrell slept with Frank Sinatra. She was married to him. That would be great if I found out I was actually Frank Sinatra's daughter. Is there any part of you that doubts your mom's story there?

Is there like proof or she wouldn't lie about that? I don't think she would lie about that. Have you guys ever seen Rosemary's baby? Sorry, by the way. Yeah. Let's go back to movie reviews. Rachel's boy. Yeah.

No, but I just came up when I was Googling her. That movie is so fucked up. Woof. Yep. Sorry. Someone made me watch it once and I was like. don't ever do that to me again. All right.

Well, this was lovely. Listen, we covered some serious shit. Sure did. We did. I like that you're still drinking only a tiny bit of your maches. I didn't get her at this time. I tried. I'm trying again.

I'm trying to get back to my old self. Please try harder. Yeah. It'd be great to have the old Rachel back. Maybe I'll stop coughing by next week, guys. Yeah. Stay tuned for next week's post to find out. If I stop. You better not get me sick.

I'm not contagious. Did Jeff say I was contagious? No. It's been two and a half weeks. Okay, you don't need to yell at me. I'm heated. All right. Goodbye.

Bye. That was a hate gum podcast.