Broad Ideas with Rachel Bilson & Olivia Allen - Roy Choi on L.A. Origins, Gambling Addiction, and Revolutionizing Food Trucks

Episode Date: September 4, 2023

Gourmet food truck godfather Roy Choi talks with Rachel and Olivia about roaming the streets of L.A. alone as a 5 year old kid, couch surfing as a broke young adult, and his cooking roots. They also discuss generational differences between Gen X and Gen Z, Roy’s miraculous way back from hitting rock bottom, and the magic of food.Broad Ideas is supported by Spiidergriip. Get yours today at SpiiderGriip.com and use discount code IDEAS at checkout and receive 30% off and free shipping.Broad Ideas is supported by Mosh. Head to moshlife.com/IDEAS to save 20% off plus free shipping on your first 6-count trial pack.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hax is back for its fifth and final season, and so is The Hacks podcast. Join the Hacks creators and showrunners, Lucia and Yellow, Paul W. Downs, and Jen Statsky as they unpack the Emmy-winning comedy series. On each episode, hear stories from the set, what goes on in the writer's room, and how these beloved characters close out their final season. Watch Hax streaming exclusively on HBO Max and listen to The Hacks podcast on HBO Max, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to broad ideas.

Now on video. Now on video. Rob's so excited. Yeah. And he's thrilled. His quoth, everything. Yeah. He walked in.

Came camera ready today. You did. He walked in and I was like, why do you look so dapper? Why used to look so good? He's like, I gotta be on video. I can't wear my hat. He can't wear his hat anymore, his staple. What happens if you wear your hat?

I'm going to try it. Okay. I've thought about trying it at times. Me too. And then putting the headphones up. Yeah, because, you know, somebody's got to hide the hair. Can't you put the headphones like that and have it go down and just be like super swag? If you want to call that swag.

Yeah. I call it swag. We're going to try it. We'll find out of. Yeah. We're wearing headphones. We're not. Shit.

It's all right. We're going to roll with it. But who's our first guest? Our first guest. Okay. Now, I mean no disrespect at all to all of the amazing guests we've had because we have had so many. But. I am going to go out on a limb here and say this probably was my favorite conversation because it was so beautiful.

I won't give too much away. I may have cheered up four times. No than one time. Olivia as well. Major fans. Roy Choi, who is a chef known for. his Kogi truck here in L.A., which is phenomenal. And he's an incredible person. Like, his food, obviously, it's made with love. Like, I can't say enough good things about this.

Your love language. Food. We also can't stop talking about it. We can't stop talking about it. You know how many, I have told this story. I'm like, me too. I had the best conversation. Like, I was totally ginked out over this conversation. Like, I just, there was a lot of love. A lot of love. A lot of love. A lot of love. So I'm going to stop talking and we're going to let Roy talk. Let you love him. Yep.

Let me love you. Sometimes when the world's sick inside of Rachel's little brain, all these thoughts are swirling round and round inside to join us on this journey as we take a little ride. We'll talk about dogs and kids. Things we'll talk about chicks and tampon strings. We'll talk about boys that'll make you cry. Because people die. Okay, let's start with the first thing I heard that I didn't know if it was a chef hack or just a cooking hack, but to use a can to pound and, you know, tenderize your chicken.

Do you use the, you learned it from a friend? Yes. Do you use like the can on its side or? On its side. On a side. Because otherwise it's uneven. Yeah, otherwise you get rings on it. Yeah.

When did you make chickley Chicken cuss with him? Was I there? I don't know. I don't remember. I just remember the tip. And so I was wondering if... She remembers the tip.

Yes. Yeah. But do you hear the way that sound? Yeah, I know. That's all she was. I'm like, wait. Leave it to me. Chicken cuntlets with him,

but all you remember is the tip. No, but I, you know, and I think about it often because when I use a tenderizer, and it just like murders my chicken, I feel like maybe the can might be the way to go. It seems like it, yeah. Would you use a can?

I only use a tip, yes. I only use it. Do you prefer that or a tenderizer? We use, you know, in a professional kitchen, we have our own set of tools, you know. It's like asking a surgeon, do they use a scissor? You know, we have like our own type of scissors. So we have like our own like mallets and things.

like that. Just like contractors do and everyone does. We have like our own special set of set of tools. Yes. You can get them at restaurant supply stores anyway. I need to know. They're usually flat. They're usually they usually have flat heads and they're made

out of like one piece of constructed like stainless or metal. They don't have the spikes. You can use the spikes but that's for a very specific purpose. That's for like making like the spikes are mostly for like making like chicken fried steak or something like that. Really? Yeah. Like a cutlet, I like to pound extremely

thin and smooth. Yeah. So very much like you would make any chicken parmesan or a tonkatsu or chicken cutlet. But the one with the spikes on it. Yeah, that's for chicken fried steak. It's very specific. This is really good to hear. This is a million questions. I love to cook. So yes, of course. I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like all of the cooking and the chef stuff is always fascinating. to me. But first, how did this all, like, happen for you? Cooking? Yeah. Was it something like you, yeah. How did you get here and why? You're asking yourself, why am I here? Yeah, why am I here? I had no idea you guys do who I was. I'm like, when Rob kept telling me like, do you want to book me as a guest, I'm like, they want to book me as me. Absolutely. Are you kidding? Of course, I know who you are,

even if I haven't tried cooking, which I need to. I definitely, of course, know who you are. You're incredible. But yeah, I want to know, like, were you a little. kid in the kitchen and it was your passion. Yeah, well, I grew up in a restaurant. So I grew up here in LA and, you know, for a lot of immigrant, especially Asian immigrant families, the restaurant or like a corner market or something food related is always like a kind of a business that a lot of us get into because it's one that is in many cases vacant because a lot of people don't want to work in the restaurant business back then. Also, you could get through it without having English as the main You know, like if you if you land in this country in English, it's not your first language.

It's like hard to get an office shop, right? Because like most of the work relies on communicating. Whereas at a restaurant, you can communicate in different ways. You don't have to necessarily use words. So that helps a lot. And also it's like what's weird about with like a, you see a lot with a lot of Asian immigrants and Latino immigrants is that, you know, food is like our way to figure out like how to transition. of this country because it's something. And you know what's weird is like you think that a lot of these people were like chefs or

restaurateurs or something like that before, but none of them were. It's just they're bringing. And you know what it is? There's also a bridge back to like where you came from because when you leave a country and land in another country, one, you're doing it for opportunity. But no one really talks about like how much it hurts. You know, people think you're just fleeing a country and you never want to go back. But a lot of people flee because for whatever reason, it could be exile, it could be political, it could be financial, it could be whatever.

But in your heart, it's like you still love where you came from and you still like want to feel those tastes. And like, you know, we all grow up with like childhood memories, you know, however fucked up that childhood could have been, you know. And so a lot of times the restaurant becomes a place where it becomes your only way back to kind of figure. figuring out like how you could stay close to where you're from. And so they try to recreate all these flavors. So, you know, the history of all these like restaurants, a lot of them were built by people who didn't know how to cook at all, which is crazy. You can think of, right? Because we put all of these small, like, you know, cultural immigrant restaurants in this category of like, wow, these things, you know, they're written about in food media and chefs like the only place we eat like after work are these small places in mini malls. And then the food media. talks about them like they're like changing the way cooking is and all these things. But really like it was funny is what they don't understand is a lot of these people were figuring that shit out as they were cooking. Right. Right. You know, and so my parents were no different. My parents were not cooks. They were educated like intellectuals. They were here to like study art and political science.

But once everything fell through, they thought, you know, the thing that they felt, like they could do was like open a restaurant, cook and have their friends over. Yeah. And a lot of, a lot of like having a restaurant too is like, you know, because it's, it's tough like being a minority in this country straight out. I'll just say that. Yeah. You know, in America, it's tough. You know, unless you go through it, it's, it's hard to explain because it can be overt, but it could also be passive aggressive. It could be, you know, sometimes you're outnumbered. You just have to like take the blows. And sometimes you move through the world quietly. And sometimes you have to move through it like in many ways unseen, especially back in the 70s and 80s.

So what these restaurants also become is a place for a lot of these families to come together in a private environment and be themselves. You know, because out there in the real world, sometimes you have to like, you have to put on this like invisible coat of armor. Yeah. But then the restaurant is where you could like let loose, drink, smoke, have fun and do all this stuff, you know. So I grew up around all. all that, you know, I got to see, like, you know, these people and these families, like, struggle during the day, but then come at night and, like, completely let loose. So that was, like, a part of my whole childhood. I also grew up in his really crazy family. Like, my mom has, like, she has 11

siblings. And my, my dad has seven siblings. Oh, my goodness. Between that, we, I have, like, 60 cousins, you know. And then we all come together and everyone cooks. And so, um, And they don't cook just in the kitchen. They cook everywhere. Kind of like this podcast, like they just take up every available space, you know, in the house. And so they're like electric griddles. They're waffle makers. They're little portable ovens and everywhere.

And everywhere you go when I'm growing up is like their aunties just stuffing food in your mouth. And then so that combined with the restaurant. And, you know, and then I was left alone here in L.A. from about four years old because my parents had to go work. So this was a different time. Like right now as parents, like, there's not a time that I don't know where my kid is. Right. Right.

But back then. Yeah. I see your bracelet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So sweet. But back then, like, my parents would be like, I was four years old.

They'd be like, peace. No. Like literally leave you alone. Yeah. Yeah. Alone alone. Alone alone. They'd be like, here's, there's food on the table.

Here's a couple bucks. We got to go work. And then they come back at like eight or nine. And I'm just like, so I would roam the streets a lot on my own. And then, but it wasn't just my parent. My son is four. Yeah. I can't picture Shepard just like grooving.

I can. I can't do actually. But the thing is you have to have an environment that supports that. Right. So it's a community. It's not just, no, no. I don't mean a community. What I mean by that is that it's not just my parent.

It means this the city. Because you got to think of like, this was like the late 70s, early 80s. Like, you know, like we didn't even have like seatbelts and cars. No, right. You know what I was thinking was like, I used to walk around the streets and the bus, I'd get on the bus on my own. I'm a four-year-old kid. Oh my God. I'm like, two feet high.

And I get on the bus. And the bus driver's going, so. You know? And I go, what's so? And then I could get off and I'm just walking through downtown or whatever or, you know. Oh, my God. Wait, this is insane. This is insane.

Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. And I love it. And then so through that. Where did you go? I go Korea. Well, I lived in Koreatown, so I'd go to downtown, straight down Olympic, to downtown. He's like, I know the bus line.

Yeah, I'd go down to Crenshaw. I'd come across, go to the west side, to West Hollywood. Back then, you know, like, it was before Beverly Center was built. So it was like, there was like a little rodeo thing there. I'd go there. And then I'd go up to like Hollywood. And so like, yeah, five years old. Four five years old.

Someone needs to make this movie. I know. I tried. Hollywood. Hollywood's a tough place. But they did. They did do a movie that I'm inspired. Yeah.

Oh, chef. Right? Yeah. I tried to sell the life story, the memoir. We got close. I mean, you know the Hollywood world. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got close.

We did. I learned in Hollywood that there's a difference between selling and green lighting. And I didn't know that there was a difference. Because in my world, when you make a reservation, we give you a table, you know? That's right. That's the world. That's the world. The world should be.

And then so, But I sold the script. I was just like, fuck yeah. You know, like we're going to be on TV or a movie or whatever. And then I didn't realize there was a whole another process. So, but yeah, I just always thought that that would be a great story. Like this five-year-old kid riding the bus around the city. And like seeing the, what's great about seeing the world when you're young is no one notices you.

You know, and I think that's why I grew up so quick is like when you're roaming the streets at five, six, four years old and you're going out and you go up and you order like, I'll have one taco, please. you know, I'll have this week. But then when you're walking or riding the bus or walking through the streets, like, no one notices you. And what I mean by that is like people do just like adults do their own shit. Like they'll do their vice or they'll do their crime or they'll do their thing. And like you as a kid are just looking at it. And like you could be like right there.

And they'll still do the thing and they don't even notice you. So I got to see and hear like a lot of people with their like guard down, you know, because I almost became like a fly on the wall. Oh, wow. But anyways, all of that led to. food being like a cornerstone of my life. But I didn't know I was going to be a chef until like everything fell apart in my mid-20s. Because it was like a career that wasn't really like nurtured.

You know, like my family grew up running a restaurant. So the last thing they wanted for me was to become a chef. So it was like a very traditional thing. So, you know, for many years I tried to like avoid it. until I didn't have anything left. And that's when cooking fell on my lap. I was on a couch, like couch surfing, dead broke, like really, really had a bad place. And the show Essence of Emerald came on.

And I had like an out-of-body experience. Oh, wow. Yeah, I felt like Emeril was talking to me and telling me to check, you know, go back to your roots. And like, you know, cooking has always been there for you. And, you know, yeah. Were you on drugs? I was on a lot of drugs, yeah. But it was also a time when we were also having out-of-body experiences without drugs, you know.

It was like a big, it was like yoga. It was like yoga's soul cycle back then, you know. But back then it was, yeah, shrooms and out-of-body experiences. But yeah, yeah, I just had one of those moments where I just, you know, I could see, like, I could see the future, you know, so. Emerald's clear. Yeah. You could see it through that. You could see it through.

Yeah. And that was in your mid-20s. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Here in L.A. I'm just seeing this whole, I have this whole visual. I have you in my head as the little four, five, six, roaming the streets, just like eating your food.

And it's really mind-blowing, and I can't stop thinking about it. And I want to see it. I totally want to see the movie. Yeah, you got to make the movie. It's not over. But, like, and of course you're going to grow up so fast. Because you're doing everything for yourself. Yes.

Yeah. But, you know, the parents were. There. It was just understood that, you know, like figure shit out on your own, you know. Figure it out. But look at you now because of that, right? You figured it out. It's different. You know, like, but, you know, like every generation, I think, has their own strengths and weaknesses. Like, I think this generation, Gen Z is going to be way smarter than we are, but they're not going to have a lot of the, you know, some of the tactile physical things that we went through. So those things in some way, I don't know if they'll ever have to be supplemented or learned because the world is going to become even more digital, you know, and more experiential from a non-physical standpoint as it grows. So, you know, I don't know, but I know that they're definitely smarter than us because they have so much more information in their brains and access.

But some of the beauty of discovering things, I think, is lost. Like I feel like back then you had that kind of stand by me life, you know, where like let's go see a dead body or something like that. And like, you know, just going to like meet a friend is like the whole movie is standby me because shit can happen. Right. And then you have to figure it out and you have to like travel the distance. And that's how you learn. But now you can learn everything virtually. So it's different.

But that's such a good point. Yeah. I think that maybe we could get a mix of it. because I've been imagining this world where we take, you know, we stop, we have intervention. We stop having parents be so overprotective and we let kids kind of like go out a little more. And then like we find a middle ground. Well, we talk about that all the time. You know, kids used to just play out in the street, go to the friend's house around the block.

Like you didn't have constant contact. Yeah. You know, you just definitely, even when we grew up because, you know, I was born early 80s and late 70s here. So, like, it's the same kind of mentality before all that stuff came into play. You made an agreement, you know, and those are things that I think were lost. You made an agreement. Like, you and I would say, let's meet at 7 o'clock here. Right.

Or if you tell your kid, like, go have fun, but be back or else you, you know, kick your ass whoop. Yeah. Yeah. And how old is she? She just went to college. Oh, my God. Really? Yeah, just dropped her off last week.

Are you serious? That's so sweet. Where is she going? In New York. Oh, my God. Yeah. Wow. I can't believe you have, that's just crazy.

You had a young, you were a young father. Not too young. I'm Asian. Asian don't raise it. Yeah, I'm a lot older than I look. But I, but I had her when we were, when I was 30, something like that. 29. That's young.

Yeah, that's pretty young for our parents. Yeah. You know. Other places it might not be, but in L.A., it's young. But I lived a long life. You did. You did. I mean, listen.

You know, I think that most people fall apart in their 20s, right? Yeah. What do you think aside from that eye-opening experience? Because you could have had that and brushed it off. Yeah. Right. What put you on that path? What was the action step that followed that you had to like get behind and believe in and go full for?

Well, you know, I mean, I was sick of myself at that time. I had burned a lot of bridge. Like, I have to give you context of like how bad it was. You know, like I was an alcoholic drunk. I was a gambling addict. I had burned every bridge in my life. I had stolen from everyone I knew and from my parents. I was couch surfing with maybe two or three people that left in the whole world

that even gave a share. shit about me. You know, I was an I was an asshole. I was getting in fights all the time. I was drinking like crazy and just walking around belligerent in Korea town just like just, you know, being being a menace, you know, and I was just sick of myself, but I didn't know how to change that. I didn't know how to get out of that, you know. And, you know, and when you're at that place in your 20s, you know, it's everyone else's fault. It's not yours. And the world is against you. And And, you know, there's anger and there's, you know, you're mad because you haven't figured it out yet. And you're blaming everyone and everything else around you.

And I just took it to the extreme. You know, everyone goes through that, but I just took it to the extreme. And that manifested not only within myself, you know, in my thoughts, but it manifested in everything I was doing too. You know, so that was where it was becoming dangerous because we could all have those thoughts in our 20s. but still go to work and still like try to survive during the day but I couldn't do it so I was like going awall and everything

and then finally just everything came to a head and I was on that day that I was on that couch a lot of shit had happened you know like I was pretty much probably because I was gambling a lot at that time and I owed a lot of people money and it was kind of on the run in a way and then And at that exact juncture, you know, I had I had gotten like jumped and beaten up.

I was like, I owed a lot of people money. I was on the couch. I was just gambling like crazy. I was like going to the casino and just like begging for change and money. I was like literally, I was literally one step away from either killing myself, killing someone, going to jail or. having sex for money. I mean, that's where I was. I mean, just being,

this is a podcast, so I just want to make it all juicy for you guys. Yeah, I'm not holding back. So I was right there. And then that's when that moment happened for me. So, I think it was the severity, the gravity of the situation that allowed me to,

to finally, like, see it. And so when that, when that thing happened, I, I just got up and I made a pivot, you know, And if this could be any advice for anyone is sometimes that's all it takes. You know, and it just takes the effort of, and it could be for anything.

I deal with a lot of weight fluctuations. I deal with a lot of eating disorders as far as like binging eating. I deal with a lot of drugs. I deal with all these things. So, but the way I'm able to shift some of those things sometimes is by just getting up and changing, like in that moment. Like not making a plan, not doing anything. like literally just getting up and saying, you know. Contrary action.

Yeah, contrary action. So then what I did from there was I washed up and then I went to the bookstore and I started researching chefs because I didn't know I was around food, but I didn't know chefs. And then I would spend hours just, you know, in the bookstore reading about chefs. And then I just started to make a plan, you know, I finally went back home. And the great thing about my family and being in a family, especially like we started off talking about immigrant families, a lot of immigrant families is that no matter what you do, they always welcome you back. You know, they'll always take you back.

I got a lot of homies where their parents don't take them back. Right, right, right. But I was lucky that my parents, you know, took me back. So they gave me a place to kind of like restore myself and figure things out. And I just started building the pieces back. And then I built it all with the with the idea of getting back to who I truly was. So I started to pay everyone back and develop a plan. I started to figure out how I could get out to New York to start to cook professionally.

But that all happened just like that. Did you have support in doing that? Did you end up getting sober or any guidance? No, I've never done any like professional help type stuff. I've never been to therapy. I've never been to like a recovery center or anything like that. I just, you know, being alone for so many years in my life, I'm able to, I'm able to just like be stubborn and manifest my own, my own change in whatever I do. Wow.

That's just been something I've done my whole life. It's not perfect and it can be very rocky, but it's worked so far. But it's a miracle. Yeah. It's a miracle. Someone called me the other day and said, how. someone I know needs help. And I'm like, how can I help them?

And I'm like, I honestly don't know. I don't know how to get people to want to change. And so for you to wake up one day and want to change and actually do it and have the life that you've created today is an absolute miracle. It is. It's so inspirational. Yeah, I guess so. Thank you.

It is because when you say that, I think about a lot of – because I deal – I manage a lot of people every day, you know, running a kitchen, we consider a family, but I'm in charge of or I lead or people look up to me for advice. And I'm talking hundreds and hundreds of people every single day. You know, and so I, you know, it's my responsibility to always like look at their development, you know, like all the nuances, just like, you know, like their physical motions, their muscle memories, you know, their workstations, their attitude, their perspective, all those things, how they're thinking, what they're going through in their life. And you're right. A lot of

of people won't, they want to change, but they don't know how. They don't know how. They don't know how. And they're unwilling to hear all the things that will allow them to change. And so what I try to do is just double down on love, you know, and it does work. It sounds simple, but it does. It doesn't work all the time, and it takes extra effort. What does that look like for you?

I just positive encouragement, you know, like in this world, we, you know, it's, you know, it's so, you know, we live in a world where we think it's so, you know, like we're so desensitized to like how we treat each other and how harmful and mean we are to each other, not just personally, but just as a world. And, and then you, you know, we ridicule people that are, you know, kind and giving and loving. And so I just, and we take away the strength and the power behind it. And I just, being in the position that I am, I just tried to double down on that, um, because I'm not embarrassed by it. You know, I'm not embarrassed or scared to express those things to my team.

So I just constantly give them positive reinforcement. I tell them how great they are doing. And I always lead with a positive comment, you know, and then I ask them, when I'm ready to criticize, I ask them, are you okay if we talk about this? And if you're not, tell me when you are okay, because we got to talk about it, you know. And what they, I think, rely on or believe in is that I'll never not come back to it. Because, you know, we all fuck up. So, like, let's say someone's fucking up.

Like, if they're not ready to hear it right now, it's not like I'll just brush it aside. And I think a lot of the people that work on my teams, they appreciate that because I'll always come back to it. A lot of us, as cooks in the kitchen, we come from very tough environments, whether it's a broken home, whether it's not being loved, whether it's abuse, whether it's, addiction, whatever. So a lot of the times, most of their life are filled with situations of people that abandon them. You know, so to have this, this moment to where someone's not going to abandon you, no matter what, I think that's how it works for me. You're making him getting emotional. No, you're beautiful. I'm like, can you run our country? No, I mean, especially, to me, it hits my heart so deeply.

to see a man be able to stand in love. And like I'm raising two boys and that's all I would want for them is to lead with love. And I'm just pretty blown away by you and wonder like, are your parents incredible leaders? Was this modeled to you? Or do you feel like you were born just knowing these things? Or where did you gather? That's a great question. I think that I think it's a mixture of all of those.

My parents are definitely leaders in their own right, and they definitely are a big facet of who I've become, but they're not the only facet. You know, I grew up also on the streets around a lot of OG, what we call OGs, where I, you know, I saw the way people moved and I saw older people and how in the advice that they gave or the gems of wisdom that they would lay on me or how they acted in situations. you know, being in the kitchen, just being around food and seeing how it transformed people. It just informed a lot of who I was early on. And then I just think personally, you know, I haven't verified this, but I think that I have some sort of psychic abilities. You know, I was born into that. And they haven't been sharpened or refined or anything, but I'm able to,

I'm able to connect to different rhythms and algorithms and things within. And I'm able to see how I'm able to, I guess the best way I could describe is, and it happened with Kogi too. You know, I'm able to see kind of like option A and option B before option A and option B happen. And it doesn't mean I'll always choose the best option. Right. It's just I'm able to see it a little bit. Wow.

And sometimes it comes in fuzzy, like the old TV Channel 3 in between stations. Sometimes it comes in clear. Sometimes it comes in warped, whatever. But I'm able to see those things. So I'm able to, like, it's informed a lot of like how I have become as a person. You know, and what I'm willing to like, it's helped me like confront greed. It's helped me confront money and my choices. around like building projects that aren't solely based on profit, you know, because I don't know

if you know like all the things that I do, but a lot of like the choices that I make as an adult in business aren't around just profit. Like I spend probably half of my energy and effort in working on, you know, equity and equality and social social justice and bringing equity within the food space. and I'll spend all, you know, half of my energy working on those projects, which, you know, is not like how we're built up in this capitalist society to act. So, so, and I'm not saying these things in terms of being here. I'm saying them in terms of like, this is what informs my decisions because I can see that, you know, in this situation, you're meant to do this. Right. Even if you can make money here, you're meant to do it here.

And so that's how I make those choices. And when it comes to the social justice and it comes to those causes, what is the thing that grabs your heart the most? Well, it's always around food pretty much. You know, it can get deeper and bigger. I'm just not a trained intellectual. So I can't delve into policy or politics or things like that. But on the ground, like I can make shit happen. You can make fucking.

You have made it happen. Yeah, I can make shit happen. I can move. I can move people. I can move situations. I can move moments. I can walk through any hood in this city, in this country and get with the leaders and be like, yo, let's, let's do this. Let's make, let's feed people.

And so for me, it's really about giving people jobs, feeding the youth, bringing in nutritious food and opportunities, exposure. and then bringing attention. So the last piece to it off, the first like five elements are like the foundational structures of just, you know, filling in the void that exists. Yeah. Because the void is real whether or not people want to admit it or not.

Because if you don't live it, if you don't live south of the 10 here, or if you don't live in the inner cities in America, or if you don't live in public school systems where a lot of resources are stripped away, you may think that it's just not as bad. as it really is. But if you do live within it or come from it, what you'll understand it is even worse than you imagine. You know, there's no nutrition in any of the foods. There's no

Wi-Fi, no coffee shops, there's no jobs, there's no access to the proper information. There's no there are no restaurants. There's no chefs. There's no job opportunities, things like that. So for us, what it is is just about bringing, you know, these just basic fundamental life opportunities. Broad Ideas is supported by SpiderGrip. Oh no, did you drop your phone again? You need to get a spider grip. SpiderGrip keeps your phone in your hand right where it belongs.

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keeping my daughter's brain healthy. I like giving us Mosh bars. I really like the peanut butter chocolate and my daughter likes the cookie dough. Don't settle for a mediocre snack. When you can nourish your body and mind with the fuel it needs to succeed, head to moshlife.com slash ideas to save 20% off plus free shipping on your first six count trial pack. That's 20% off plus free shipping on your first six count trial pack, which includes all six mouthwatering flavors at M-O-S-H-L-I-F-E-com slash ideas. Do you do anything with prisoners? I'm like my brother. I have my brother living with me who just got out of prison. Oh, that's what so. Been in and out his whole life. And it's so sweet. Like the simplest thing, you know, my husband will come home and he'll be like, I made him a hot dog,

but I got this special chili. And it's like, I watch him all the time showing his love through food. He'll be like, I grilled the sickest, you know. And I'm like, it's where he feels fast. He's like, you know, all of his values been stripped from him. And because when you're institutionalized, they knock it out of you. And so I've watched him do this and I've been like, David, you should work with food. Like he is like me. We watch people eat. I'm like, take a bite.

I want to watch you. I want to watch you. But it's like the people, like you were saying, it really struck me that most of the people that are in the, in the kitchen have some form of abandonment. Yeah. And I'm thinking of him going, Oh, he'd fit right in. He'd fit right.

That's how I felt the first time we went into a kitchen. That's how he talks and he knows how to, like, it's all about the culture and, like, wisdom and the love and all of that. But I don't know if you've done work around. You're like, can you give him a job? I work with everybody. Yeah, he's welcome. I work with anyone who's on the fray, on, you know, on the fringe, any,

outcast, because that's me. That's who I work with all day, every day. And a lot of it is manifested through how you communicate, you know. For sure. And again, going back to doubling down on love because a lot of folks from communities that are abandoned, they know what abandonment looks like, you know, whether it's governmental abandonment, whether it's parental or whether it's, you know, relationship-wise or just anything or just the world or the universe or all of it.

Or systematic, yeah. And so what happens is when. when something comes through and is honest and it's true and there are no ulterior motives, everyone can feel it and everyone, everyone's attracted to it. And, you know, and that's what I try to, I try to lead with that whenever I go into a situation. And so in my environment, where I, you know, hire people, we don't have, we don't have an application process. So what I mean by that is my application is name and phone.

number. You know, so. I feel like crazy. I know. It's making me so emotional. But these are just well, no, it hits really hard home for you. Yeah. So it's just name. It's just name and phone. It's just name and phone number. And then we just take the person based on who you are in that moment. Oh my God. This is like the most, this is so important. It's so important. And a lot of those things happen because there are choices that have made to not be corporate as I've grown. You know, I'm proud of where we are, but I look at like a lot of lost opportunities because, you know, I didn't take the venture capital or I didn't do this or I didn't go this corporate route. And, you know, of course, we could have been bigger. We could have had more. I could have been richer. I could have been had more things. But then being independent and individual allows you to, you know, that's what's great about podcast too, right? Like it's like it allows you to make choices from your heart, you know, you know. And so there needs to be some of us out there still in the world, I think. I'm going to cry.

I can't. No, it's so important. It's so important. I'm so glad you're here today. Because, you know, whether you go to the prison system or not or whether you're a troublesome job, that shouldn't be, you know, like my whole philosophy is like, whatever you've done shouldn't define who you are forever, right? Because we all have the ability to change, you know.

And so like, you know, just the problem with our institutional system is that whatever you've done when you are a reckless youth or just a numschool, it follows you forever. Forever. Forever on record and also psychologically. Big time. You know, so then what happens is that person is never able to dig themselves out because they've been pushed down so far that they have no confidence in themselves. And then whenever they do build up. confidence like what you're talking about with your brother, they just get shut down because they could be right for the job, but then they say, oh, you have felony on your record. Yeah. And they,

they said, you know, it's, it's really tragic. What happens in their twos because they strip them of dignity and purpose. And then, you know, little things they do that you don't realize that on the outside you would never know. Did he serve here in California? He's been, he's literally been in and announced since sixth grade and he just turned 50. And heart of absolute gold, but he had a drug problem, you know? Was a state level or federal? Yeah.

State, I believe. Yeah. That's tough. In California? Yeah. In California. Yeah, he's got like big muscle, you know, like he did the building of the muscles instead of the.

And no legs. Yeah. That's right. The body of the Mr. Incredible. Yeah. But little things. They do that no one would know unless you have someone near and dear to you is like, he's got a tooth missing.

And I was like, where's your tooth go? He's like, I had a cavity. And I was like, so where'd your tooth go? He goes, they don't fix our teeth. They pull them. They want you back here. It's a monopoly. They want you back here.

They want you tattooed and toothless. You know, and you hear that and you go, oh, yeah. When someone's going to get a job and the guy's tooth's missing, you're going to. That story's crazy. It sounds like, like Gotham. Yeah. That's what I mean. It sounds like the CW on the CW or something.

That's how he's living thinking, you know, like I'm a victim of this. And we're trying to teach him you're not a victim of anything. Right. But also like when he got out. It's like there's no. Oh yeah. They give him a bus ticket and Narcon and say good luck. Yeah.

Like don't die. So it's. It's the same kind of thing as any systematic problem. So I do work with a lot of, maybe not directly with prisoners, but I feed whoever, right? So like we built this project in the city of Watts called Local. And it was a project built around, again, around bringing food equity and jobs and opportunities. And like it was taking fast food and redesigning it. We would use grains and vegetables to make patties and all this stuff.

But the whole core of the project was built around hiring from the community and feeding the community and being a place that the community run on its own. Eventually, the goal was to hand it back to the community and to live forever. But where this leads to is that it got really popular amongst the prison system within America. Because when you talk about a community like Watts or Compton or East St. Louis or Detroit, a lot of these cats, They, over history, know how much things have been oppressed on them, you know. And so, especially in the prison system and the war travels fast, you know, like the communication system between the streets and the jails. You know, if something good is happening, the word travels fast. So local got a nickname amongst all the prisons.

So whenever someone got out, they would come right to local. They call it local jays. And then it would be like, you know, it was like, it just became legendary. It has its own nickname. if you think about it, a project being built on 103rd in Grape Street, like, it was just unheard of, you know, so like a lot of these, these cats that were, you know, in the pin for like 10 years, 15 years, like they're like, no, not my 103rd Street. No way could that ever happen there.

So then they're just sitting there and their mind is just like racing. They're like, what is going on? You know, why are they investing in this street and what's happening? And my little nephew's working there? What's going on and all this stuff? So this is going crazy. And it's like spreading throughout all the jails throughout America. So a lot of them came out and they would go directly there.

Oh, my gosh. And so in that way, that was related to a lot of prisoners. Work with a lot of, you know, just anyone, anyone who's on the street. I work with street people, basically, anyone. Foster kids, street people, cooks, street vendors, immigrants, whatever, whoever. And the coolest thing is that everybody loves food. Yeah. Everybody loves food. Well, that's how Kogi got started.

Like, we started serving the clubs in Hollywood. This is 2000. So I know you have an echo. So Kogi, in a nutshell, started. It's a taco truck that serves Korean barbecue tacos. Yeah, of course. And we went around. We didn't know what we didn't have any plan.

We just ate the thing. And when I made it, me and my team, we ate it. And we looked at each other. We were like, I don't know how you all started this podcast. But like, we looked at each other and we're like, we need to start a truck. Yeah. This was fire. And we were just like possessed.

So then we got the truck. We made the food and we just went out, but we had no plan. We're like, uh-oh. And then so then we decided to go in front of the clubs. So at that time in 2008, it was the night we opened was the night twilight premiered at the Cinerama Dome. It was midnight on a Wednesday. And it was, there were club. There was two clubs called Green Door and Cabana on Ivar Street.

Packed. Packed. Green Door was more of the exclusive club. that your world would go to. You know, you get the pictures. Yeah, maybe you were there. And then Cabana was the more bigger club. And then, but we decided to park in front of there.

And then when we first rolled up there, the bouncers, like, big old bouncers, like, you can't park here. What the fuck you're doing? You can't park it. And they kept pushing us up. And then in that moment, I just had a quick reaction. So I took the burritos and I gave it to them. And then I said, listen, man, like, we hear you.

you, we totally get you. Just take a buy of this burrito. And then after you take a bite, let me know if we still got to move. And then they took a bite and then you could part right here. Right here. Right here. I love that.

And so that's how cooking gets there. Oh my God. So yeah, food affects everything. It's so amazing. I love it. You literally just like take a bite. Like really after this bite, let me know how. They're so bomb.

I know. I remember we used to go follow it. Like you'd get like people would alert you. They'd be like, oh, the truck's going to be. Yeah. I remember that. Like, of course, I've heard of it and know of it. Of course, yeah.

You know? It was a very special moment because, you know, everyone, you know, it happened during the recession. The mortgage crisis in 2008. A lot of people were really scared. And like, so, you know, very similar to recently during COVID where a lot of pop-ups and people were selling food out of their house. And Instagram became, you know, for us it was Twitter. But during COVID, it became Instagram and TikTok, you know. But, you know, when everything's so depressing and scary, like, it was like this really special little, like, cute little scavenger hunt that everyone, like, needed in that moment.

And, you know, we're just really happy that we were that person, you know. Yeah, it started a whole revelation of the food trucks. Revolution. Revolution, revelation. I had a revelation. What was that like to actually look at and be like, wow, I was part of a change in. culture. Yeah, it's crazy. You know, like, yeah, it's crazy. You know, it's like being a part of any revolution or phenomenon that happens that changes culture, it's a lot to absorb. You know,

and with fame and that pressure can, you know, I'm lucky that it happened to me later in life, to be honest, you know, and all the stuff I've just told you so far prepared me for this, even though I didn't know it was coming. We weren't planning on this at all. We were just trying to make literally $800 a day. That was our goal. That was our business plan. It's amazing. $800 a day.

That means between five people, we could all like split it up, you know. And this was our math. Like if we made $800 a day and we serve five days a week, like we wouldn't have to get a job again. That was it. We're good. That's good. That's good. That's good.

That's like two, three hundred bucks a day times 20 days. You know, we're like, that's good. And we'll eat. That worked. Yeah. That worked. And then, you know, know, by month two, everything just like blew up. And it was crazy. And, you know, just so you have a

context of, yeah, yeah, month two. And, you know, so the context of it is like just parking from the club waiting for people get out. Maybe you're selling 50, 50 tacos, you know, you're driving around midweek, you know, Hollywood Boulevard, just like, I was just like begging people to eat the food, giving it away. And then things shifted. And then all of a sudden you go from that. to you pull up to your location and there's 2,000 people waiting in line already. That's insane. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

And then, you know, it was cool because it was a time where, you know, these kind of like, you know, looking back at it now, which was only 14, 15 years ago. But it seems so, like, primitive, but, you know, compared to, like, how we interact now with all the technology and social media. But, you know, this was the time of like flash mobs and planking and things like that. People already had like a little bit of an idea of how to like gather in these moments. And it was so cool because like they would there would be like this. And that's what I mean by love. You know, like there was this common agreement for that moment, you know, where 2,000 people that didn't know each other would come together, figure out a system together, wait in line and figure out where the beginning of that line was. And then talk to each other for because it took about two, three hours to wait in line.

And talk to each other and get to know each other. Wow. And share that and just be in the moment. And then a lot of like relationships came out of that, which is crazy. Like another side of love. Like I've been responsible for so many marriages. Just because waiting in line. Waiting in line.

That's so cool. So like if you and I were waiting in line for two hours and then you were reading a book and I just looked over and ask you what book you read and then maybe we were meant to meet. Right. You know. That's incredible. But it also goes back to talking about even when you're a kid and you're just going. off and you're exploring and you're doing whatever. Like waiting in line, you're forced to interact and talk to people and you're not on the phones.

You're not doing the things. And you're there for a common reason. A common love. So there's also, there's, you know, there's an icebreaker already. Right. Because it's like, have you had to talk about yet? What's your favorite? So then that starts, that starts it first.

Man, I don't want to come wait in line. Yeah. You're not waiting in line. I'm waiting in line on purpose. But yeah, we've been responsible for so many marriages. And then even the first restaurant I opened. Also, I mean, the love continues. I also not just Kogi, but the first restaurant A-frame that I opened on the West Side was responsible for marriages too.

Because that restaurant at a time, we opened in 2010, we broke and set a lot of new rules. One being we sat strangers together at the same table because it was a small restaurant. Like communal. Yeah. But it was different. than communal. Like communal is a big long table. These were like small tables like this like regular two top in front of us. Yeah. But we would stuff another two top that you didn't know. You could be on a date with someone. Yeah. But we would stuff another two top on a date with you. Because we were a small restaurant. We were in an I hop. And so inside we had very limited seating. And there was a big rush, you know, it was a very busy restaurant. So I just told everybody. And and, you know, having social media and being like at the forefront of that, I was able to communicate my thoughts to people. And so I just built all of our places on honesty.

And I said, listen, man, if you all want to eat this food, this is how it's going to go. And if you don't like it, then either order it to go or whatever. But this is how it is. And one of the basic principles was every seat is for the taking. So if, you know, there are no reservations. You come up to the restaurant. If there's an empty seat next to you, I might sit someone next to you, you know. So through that and then the food was all eaten with your hand.

So it was very primal. people are sitting next to each other. We put a bunch of speakers and bass in the restaurants who were blasting really great music. And it was just a great vibe. And then through that, what happened that people connected. I think Afrin was responsible for like 20 marriages.

Oh my God. Just because random sat together. I'm like that sperm donor doctor. I was like a fucking million kids. 150. Yeah, 150 kids. I'm like that. My restaurants are like that.

My restaurants are sperm donors. Where did you meet your wife? We met after I got out of culinary school. We met here in L.A. I was coming back from New York to L.A. And she was studying here in L.A. And then we met like just in this really short transition period. It was like love at first night.

What? Can you give us the story? Yeah. I love a love story. Oh, yeah. Well, my parents, our mothers knew each other. They went to high school together. That sounds shady.

No, but here they're like, I just need to preface. They were not friends. They were not friends at all. Got it. Okay. They were not friends at all. They went to high school again. My mom was the popular.

What high school? In Korea. My mom was a popular. My mom was Regina George. She was, she was the popular one, the mean one, the leader, everything. And then her mom was an athlete. So kind of a tomboy, totally not the popular crowd, totally different. Never interacted, never really hung out anything.

They hadn't seen each other for 30 years. Oh, wow. Over 30 years. I just came back from college school for like two days. Yeah. Between going to my first. first job at a resort. But for some reason in that moment, and these kind of things, like Kogi's the same thing, all these things, it's just like what's happened to my life, these like circumstances.

Yeah. But in this moment, her and her mom were driving. And again, never hung out, 30 years, never talked to each other. And that day. And then this is in LA. No, no. They were in LA. Yeah, but I mean like. Yeah, they were in Korea. But my wife came here to study graduate school. And then so her mom came to visitor. Got it. After all this time, they're driving for some reason out of the blue in this moment she says let's go see my friend which is my mom which they're not friends but it's the only person she probably knew here no she knows other people oh wow because there's more because there's alumni here all throughout okay yeah it's more kisman yeah she's just like in that moment they went to go see her my mom's like

what the fuck you doing here you know you and then they sat down then they're coffee and then she's like i don't even fuck with you yeah i like what are you doing here And they sat down and then, you know, her daughter was with her. And then my mom's talking. And then my mom just had a life. She's like, is your daughter married? And then they're like, no. And they're like, you know what?

They should meet. And then so they had us like kind of, you know, just like go out. Like just meet. And then, yeah, the moment I saw her, I was just like, I'm married. I feel like we're married. Yeah. But that's how that all happened. So, so yeah, we.

But then I went right to my. job. And so, like, we kind of had a long-distance relationship. And, um, but then we got married, yeah, within a year, like the next, the next year. Yeah. Did she be? We got married at Disneyland. You, what? Yeah. Are you kidding? It gets even cuter. Oh, my. Mickey. And we, and we were very, we were, we were, where we weren't rich at that time. So we would, we scraped up all the money that we had to rent Mickey for the, because when you get married. To marry you? Yeah. When you get married Disneyland, they also offer the package. So Disneyland wedding.

Yeah, yeah. So you get the, there's the ultimate package is you get carted in the Cinderella cart. Oh, yeah. They have all the stuff. I want to redo. But then they have the smaller packages and then you can rent like the real low budget you can rent like Pluto or something. Yeah. But then like we we skinked together and got Mickey. And then they threw in Minnie as a surprise. And she showed up like at the reception as a surprise. The whole crowd like. And then, so they come and they do the first dance with you and all that stuff.

They cut the cake with you and everything like that. That is so fucking cute. I can't handle it. Were you guys obsessed with Disney? Yeah, like we're a big Disney fans. You're big Disney fans. Do you guys go back every year on your anniversary? Yeah.

And my kid is we go to Disney World every year. You do? He's like every Wednesday. Yeah. Every Wednesday we're there. That is so fucking cute. That's so sweet. That's like the sweetest story ever.

And then, so that's been a long time. You guys been married and it was one of those meant to bes. I think so. You have a lot of like, yeah. Meant to be. The stuff in your life, you know, but you attract it. Yeah, it seems like he's awake to it, right? Yeah, a lot of them.

Yeah, they, again, I can see them or I feel them. Mm-hmm. And then I just, you know, when I'm, you know, when it hit, when I do it right, I act on it, you know, like when it. And later, you know, as, you know, as. as I've grown older with maturity, and I've been, my batting average has been better as far as, like, making the right decision. When I was younger, I would always be, like, you know, very, very closed off to it. But the more and more I'm able to make those decisions, I feel like, you know, I'm just clearer in being able to do it. Like, even this podcast, you know, like, I don't know y'all, you know, like, and I didn't even know how you all know me.

And then, like, when Rob told me to do this, you know, it was like, probably, like, you know, my, other self would, my first answer would have been no. Right. You know? Sure. And but there's just something that I felt, you know, and like, and then sitting here and, you know, talking to you too and allowing me to say these things and seeing how you're reacting to them, you know, I realized I made the right decision.

Oh. You can't make me cry again. I know. You can't do. I know. That's all you're doing. I know. When you go, sorry.

No, I was just going to ask, when you make these decisions, I feel like there's three places we can make decisions from, right? Our head, our instincts, or our intuition. And I think those are three different things. And I'm curious where you make your decisions from. Well, as I've grown older now in maturity, I definitely, you know, there's definitely a, like a hybrid that I've made of it all. I'm like a marijuana strain. I've made a hybrid of it. But it's, it's, more and more and more intuition and gut and gut, you know, because I've, I've been through so much of, you know, I'm here now and I made it through the other side. And I'm not afraid, I'm not afraid or embarrassed of anyone or anything anymore. You know, I'm not like doing it

to get ahead or I'm not doing it because I have a boss or, you know, I'm afraid of what the perception may be. So that allows me to really, really hear and feel the gut and the intuition. And then so, you know, I'll just, that's what leads a lot of the decisions and the business decisions. Yeah. And that transfers over to business too, not just personal. But a lot of it is, you know, I have to acknowledge that a lot of it is driven by being independent, you know, and self-funded. And, you know, and I know not everyone has the ability and the opportunity to do that. You know, like, you know, it's very fortunate that, but it doesn't come because it just falls on your lap.

You have to work for it. So if anyone out there is struggling with that place that we've all been, and I've been there, where you hate your job, you hate your boss, or you don't like where your life is at, or you wish you could do this, it's not going to come overnight, but you have to start making, you know, the decisions and the actions to get to a place where you can be independent. But then that also requires you being honest with your own level of greed and eagest. and all those things, you know.

It's a lot of stuff. But you can have, there's, there's so many things that I turn down because it, it would chip away at my freedom, right? And I look at that and I'm like, and then, and I have to sometimes, you know, I have a team that works really closer with me that has been with me for like over a decade. So they, they understand a lot of my abstract decisions, but sometimes I still have to sit them down because I want to be fair to them, you know, because sometimes those decisions affect them or they could they could be richer because of that you know or they could you know have a

better life but but i try to explain why that if you look at if you look at the whole picture it may feel better now but this is where we're going to end up if we take this deal you know like we're going to lose this and although this this what i mean by this is this freedom may not be bringing in any revenue right now it's something that's also extremely precious and needs to be protected. And so, um, so that's what drives me a lot. And then finally, the thing is that, you know, to get to freedom is a really hard place to get to in life, whatever level that is. And so for me to have been fortunate to get to the other side, I'm like, it takes a lot for me to give that back. And so, you know, so that's a lot of like where I get to as far as like making

decisions. Like, um, you know, I don't want anyone to tell me like, I, like, I, I'm a collaborator as far as like listening to notes in terms of like we're all working together to make it better. But but I'm not giving up what I got to where like I don't have to answer nobody right now in life. Not one person. That's amazing. Not one person. You know, maybe my, maybe my wife and my kid. Maybe.

But that's not like obligation wise. That's because I want to. But as far as like anything else, like I don't, I don't have to do anything that anyone ever wants me to. do. So then, so when you think about that, then that's not selfishness. What it does is it drives you to like really dig deep and do the things that you think are right, you know. And fulfilling. And fulfilling. It's like empty calories in food versus nourishing food. Exactly. You're choosing the nourishment versus the empty calories. And then I'm allowed to take that nourishment and cook food or make projects that make other people feel that too, you know. Yeah. And so, you know,

this world is so built on scale. And so it's like the only thing that I'm giving up really is scale. You know, like a lot of business people look at me like, you should have a hundred of those or what's your exit strategy or like, you know, how are you going to scale this? If you do everything yourself and all this stuff. And I just tell them like, I'm not looking for scale. And what I try to tell people is like, okay, if you're coming to at me with those questions, why don't you jump in and help me then, you know, like this is what we do.

So if you feel like this is special. then take your acumen and adjust it to this and let's make it, let's make it bigger. Let's scale this. Let's scale this. But don't make me give up this to become that, you know, so. Do you know the four hour work week? I've heard of it, yeah. So there's this story.

I don't know if you know it, but I love it. It's this fisherman. And he's got like a little fishing boat. I'm going to screw the story, but it's basically what you're saying. And these people come and go, well, you know, if you had a bigger boat, you could get this many fished. day. And if you get six boats or 10 boats, you can get this many. And he's like, okay, I don't want that. And they're like, why, you could have this much money and then you could retire to do

what, he said, come back to this little fishing boat and fish. Like, I don't want to give up what I already have and enjoy to scale it to finally retire to just come back. To do what I love from the first place. Let's skip that. Yeah. And fish in the boat. Yeah. A lot, you know, and the way our world has been built lately is like it's hard for people, for us to really fathom that we want less, you know, because the world is built on so much. Everything is more, more, more, more, more.

So. But if you really look at it, you know, like, we're not like naturally, you know, as animals and humans. we're not built to be this massive, you know? Like if you look at any other animal, like they take up a certain amount of forest or they take up a, you know, they have like this, this amount of cave or they have, like they eat this amount of berries, you know, like. So obviously, you know, I'm not trying to change the course of civilization. It's just I'm just saying that it seems as though someone has to step up and say,

hey, like, hold on. Like, we're being a little excessive here, you know, a little excessive, you know. And so, I don't know. I just, I think about it a lot, though. Like, because I think about, because the world is built on so much financial, like, am I giving up on stuff? Like, I've never been a part of generational wealth or anything like that or even being able to give. My parents didn't really, weren't able to give me a head start as far as, like, you know, financially.

So I had to build everything from scratch there. So I'm just wondering, like, am I giving up an opportunity to take care of not only my family, but other families because of my own, like, spiritual selfishness? So I don't know. I think about it all the time. I don't have the answer for it. But then there's the question there that, like, if you take it, are you preventing your child from finding their own path with it?

Exactly. And then, you know, and then you look at like, no matter how, you know, you could be way bigger than you are, but then even big things like fall apart too. Look at Hollywood right now. Yeah. You know, you know, look at all the Netflix, you know, in the and the streamers and the strike and everything. So it's just like. But don't you think happiness is the most important thing? I think happiness is the most important. And that's love again. Love, taking care of people being, you know, and yeah. When this whole thing was happening with the Bitcoin and during the pandemic and everything, I was hoping, like there was a part of my imagination that this was going to be a shift.

in our kind of like financial and capitalistic, you know, existences where, like, love would conquer in a way where, like, we would get rid of some of this stuff. And, like, you know, we as people could invest in the system that where we're, like, 30, 40% of our time is built around, like, loving and taking care of each other and being okay, you know, and not just a rat race, but, yeah, it didn't work. We're not done. We're still here, you know. This is something my husband talks to me about all the time, especially in his field.

He's a physician and he sees patient after patient. And it's like the medical industry as a whole. And he's like the whole entire system, every single system needs space for nurturing, for community, for love, for service. And the way that the civilization is set up right now, there's not much space for it. And it takes people creating it and not doing, you know, refusing the big thing to hold integrity. And I think that that's what, to me, you have in spades is integrity. Right. Well, it does work.

I think your husband is right. And, you know, I want to give him his props on that because it does work. It's just we have to invest. in it. We have to make time for it. And there are our examples where it does like, you know, my kid goes to a liberal arts college. Liberal arts invests in that, you know, invests in giving time and space for the arts, for not just networking and profit and what, doing. Yeah, doing and not just where you're going to go, what job you're going to get after college. You know, it's about developing your mind and your thinking and your understanding. And so there are places for that.

You have the Scandinavian countries that, you know, they have other issues, but they, you know, society-wise, they, you know, they invest in this space, you know. So it is possible. It's just, you know, it takes effort. The word of encouragement that I can't give is that it can happen if certain individuals just step up and do it. That's right. So the domino effect is real, you know, and I'm a living. example of that, you know, selling one taco, begging people to eat it into dominoing and not wavering on that fundamental first philosophy of sharing, loving, our food prices having changed in 15 years, you know?

Really? Because the purpose, pretty much Kogi has gone from making like a little profit to pretty much just being almost a nonprofit. Because what it is is, it's built around making sure that, you know, because every generation is going to have people that need a cheap meal, you know, that need to be able to get through, you know, so so what we, even though everything has grown and prices have grown and the, you know, supply chain and all those stuff, we have decided to just keep our tacos at $2 pretty much because because we know that there's going to be another generation that's struggling that's going

to need access to Kogi. But then the domino effect of that, of staying true to that. has blossomed to many other things, you know, opportunities, you know, for myself and entertainment, building restaurants, doing all these things. But keeping that one thing where it's at has allowed the other things to grow. And I think if a lot of businesses like were to look at it or individuals look at it that way, they, you know, and not wait for someone else to do it. If you do it, I swear that the domino effect will happen. By us doing that, the effect it had on, you know, social media, food trucks and food culture in general, you know,

it changed the way people interact with food. And that all happened with like Kogi. And so, you know, and I'm saying this not to get credit for. What I'm saying is that through that, this all happened, right? And it happened because we stay true to what we originally wanted to do. And imagine if that happened in other spaces. Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. And then all of a sudden we would have a shift in culture to where,

like these businesses that we really, really look up to or want to be a part of are making these choices, you know. And I do think you deserve a little credit for it. You may not want to give it, but I do. And I think that I think you deserve credit for sticking to something that mattered to you and the way you lead. And that sets you apart and has helped change the course of, think about how many people are employed, not just in your company, but in, I just went to a thing the other night. It's all food trucks. Yeah. You know? Like, think of the wealth that that creates, not just in your life.

And that's what abundance is. It's not about how big something can get. It's what kind of impact it has. Absolutely. Yeah. And you've made a huge impact. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I'm very proud of it. Yeah. Thank you. And the one thing I wanted to say when you said you go with, you know, your intuition. And I find, and as I've gotten older, like when you go with your mind, fear is always at the forefirm. front. Yes. And so I do the same. If I follow my intuition and then once that sees it, you know, through, you're like, it was the right decision. It was. And then you use your brain to like to help your intuition, you know, instead of leading with your brain. I think that's the best way. Yeah. It's like we always second guess our gut because. Yes. Because a lot of times the way the world is set up or the way we're taught is we're not supposed to be that reckless or that or tune into that as much. We're supposed to be a little more careful.

But I think it's the other way around. I think if we, that intuition is usually right, whether it's in a test, you know, or whether it's in anything. And then if you just, but then that with no training or no thought can also become reckless. So I think if you take that, follow that first and then apply your thinking to that. Again, then you get your hybrid strain. There you go. We're coming up with a really good strain here.

Yes, we are. You basically channel is what you do. channel. Yeah. No, I'm saying you do. Oh, me. Yeah, I do. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm getting better with it every day as I'm here because of the going back to the freedom. Right. So what happens is because I made those decisions to not take the money or to grow or all those things. It, it strengthened my freedom and it strengthened my channeling. So then now as I grow, grow better with it, I'm better with it, you know, because I have more strength behind it. I'm more powerful with it. So. Yeah, I'm getting to Gandalf level. I'm not there yet. I'm not there yet. But I'm on that path. And so, and we can all be on that path.

I'm just trying to show you that I'm a living example of like if you are able to have the courage and the strength to weather through and make these decisions, you will start to be able to get to that place where you can channel things and get to a different level. Yeah. I was going to ask you like how you stay so humble. through it all with the, you know, getting famous and the success and all of that. But then I realized I didn't need to ask you that because it is you channeling. And I've noticed when people do channel, when they're in their zone and their flow of life, they typically stay humble because they know that they don't have much to do with it other than getting out of the way. Yeah, getting out of the way and just tuning into it and knowing that it's not just about you or, you know, or, or, or, or,

It's not about winning, you know. It's not about anything like that. It's just, you know, it's, and that's how it is. And that's why I think food is such a perfect profession for me because, you know, and that's why I have a lot of issues with, like, food competition shows, you know, because, yeah, you know, I don't mind them. They're fun entertainment. And I don't mind being like a guest judge once in a while.

But I don't see the purpose of beating someone in food. And that's just me. But I don't understand what it is that you get out of it. it's not really a sport. And, you know, and it's just like, what do you, like, what does it do? And then I just feel like going back to your channeling is like when you feed people, that's when you can really get out of your way. You know, and tying yourself into this next level of yourself or freedom doesn't have to

always be these really grand accomplishments or gestures. They can, you can start to see them in making, choices in your actions and small things. Like, again, just feeding people and cooking for people and just like watching, you know, what happens when you do feed people and when you're not, you know, when you make enough for everyone or you go out and you try to take care of people, like people can feel that, you know, and there's a special place that that takes everyone. So, yeah.

So cool. I was reading up on, we have another connection is that I, I'm a huge get smart fan. Are you serious? My grandpa. Your grandpa directed. Yeah, he got an little Emmy for directing that one. I'm like, even in my book, even in my book. Oh, G.

Like the OG like get smart. Even in my book I write about Maxwell smart. Are you serious? Yes. Oh, my God. He's still alive. My grandpa is 95. Oh, tell him that he, he, uh, he, him and the Fons.

Yeah. And I met. I met Henry Wiggler. You met Henry. He's not, isn't he the nicest man in the world? But like, when I was alone a lot. Right. We could bring it all the way back to that. So I was alone a lot. So I was watching a lot of TV. And I was lost in this world. I didn't know who I was. You know, I was six years old with dealing with the pressures of life. But I was six years old and seven years old. I was just trying to figure out, you know, what's my place in this world? You know, like, you know, home was different than the world. Like all these things. And then it was the Fonz and Maxwell Smart that were like my. Those are my. Those are my. American hero.

Oh my God. That's so cool. Yeah. And, you know, the Fons was the cool one. And then Maxwell Smart was like, that was like, that was like who I wanted to be. That's what I thought, like, if I ever become American and I figure this thing out and like, you know, and I become an adult, like I want to be like him, you know. Wow. That is so cool.

I am going to share that story. He's going to really like that. That is so cool. And you do remind me at the. Fonds. Oh. I met him when I was, I was five, five or six years old. You met him then?

Yeah. So what happened was one of my, one of our neighbors are down the street, like in the other apartment. She worked at Paramount. And then her and her kid and me were like kind of casual friends. And then one day she had like a couple passes to like go and see a taping for happy days. And then so she brought us there And then she

brought us backstage And then to the dressing room Because she knew how big a fan of the Fonz I was I used to wear like a fake leather jacket Oh my God I used to put my thumbs up everywhere I go And then And then so she brought me back there

And now as an adult I look back at the whole situation And I know exactly What he was doing at that time Now I was an adult And someone who's worked in entertainment Like it was probably like mid afternoon. He was probably in between scenes or something.

He was in his dressing room just having a moment. He was, I think getting his makeup touched up or things like that. So it was just like that like moment of time. And but he like stopped everything and like just like gave us like all his attention for like five, ten minutes. And yeah, it was really cool. That's so cool. He was so present. So kind.

And his daughter is doing beautiful work. And his son I think is involved in food too in some way or loves food. Love's food. Yeah, but his daughter has a nonprofit called This Is About Humanity. Oh, yeah. Have you heard of us? They just did the big thing. Yeah, they did the big, her big, yeah.

Yeah, with all the tacos and everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I was looking at that picture. Jeff Bezos's hand was a little tight around Kim Kardashian. Oh. I was like, whoa. We're going to revisit those pictures.

Yeah. Go look at that, go look at that picture. Look at that. Look at that. It was a little tight. I believe it. That's hilarious. Oh my God.

Roy, I'm so happy that you agreed to come and do this. And you're fucking amazing. I'm so inspired by you. And you made me cry maybe four times today. So you're doing a good job. Yes. Couldn't be more grateful. So grateful.

Thank you so much. It's beautiful. Thank you. Oh my God. That, I know, no disrespect to all of our amazing guests we've had. But that was my favorite conversation. He was so much better than every other guest we've had on. No, I don't like to compare, like, better.

But that was like the most beautiful conversation. That was the most beautiful conversation. I teared up four times. Yeah. We were very taken with Roy. Yep. Okay. I just had to put it out there.

I had to say it. Rob doesn't know what to do with himself because he's on camera. He's like freezing up. He did tell us he fell in love with you and Dax both when he did armchair. Did he say that? Well, I don't know if he said fall in love. But he did. It was like instant, you know, connections.

Yeah, we have some mutual friends. So when he came on, we bonded quickly. He did say that you guys share music and food. Yes. Yes. So we are constantly trying to run into each other at concerts. He doesn't strike me as someone that's like at the concerts you're at. He's, well, we were at one.

one recently. I know. You told me. That's why I was like a little. What concert? Portugal the man. The Hollywood Bowl. I think he's a busy guy too.

So I think he's also not in LA a lot of the time. Okay. I can't take it. I just can't. I can't do it. Rob, normally everybody, Rob is always in a hat. Yep. But he came camera ready.

Let's just give him props where props are due. You deserve props. You do, Rob. I'm telling you the broadians is going to be so excited to see your face. It's a lot of attention for him right now. Well, especially because of both of you cameras and right at me. How do you feel in front of a camera? Is it making uncomfortable?

Not super comfortable, yeah. Is it different than when you first were on the mic? I guess not. It's that same kind of. Yeah. But now you're super comfortable on the mic either. Now he steals the mic from us. So comfortable.

You are. At least with us you are now. Like when you're on the mic, there's not an ounce of discomfort in you. He tries to make us uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't get that pillow for my birthday. I'm sorry.

I really wanted they make a pillow with Taylor Swift's lyrics. It's like an embroidered looks like a grandma pillow. Oh, yeah. And it says, it's me. Hi, I'm the problem. It's me. And I feel like I need that. That's a good summation of who you are.

Thanks, Rob. Were you trying to send me a signal? Yeah, it was a smoke signal and you did not get it. I didn't get it. No, it's okay. You got me a really nice birthday present. What did you get her? Rob brought me sidecar and courage bagels and had it set up on the table.

I made a bagel board. It was a bagel board and a donut board. I mean, that is the way to my soul is through that. And we still owe him a pizza oven. We still have Rob a pizza oven. There's two now. Yeah, you didn't give me a birthday again. Yeah.

We owe him two. gifts. Yeah, we do. You're going to start with the one. You're going to get them. What did you get her? What did you get her? We got me these beautiful earrings by Jennifer Fisher, who makes like the dopest hoops and things. And I love them. And a salt collection, like salt and spicy salt and all kinds of fun salts.

So you didn't wait in line for two hours at Courage bagels? Neither did you. Neither did you. Maybe I did. Maybe I did for this. That peanut butter and jelly bagel? Yeah Is it in the bagel It's in the bagel It's an almond butter

Oh no no it's on top Okay Well but they close it Yeah she just thought Was it a peanut butter And jelly flavored bagel It's the jam from squirrel It was

So good I want it right now That's my new go-to bagel It's so good Rob The peanut butter and jelly It's almond butter With the jam Was it almond butter?

Yeah I don't even know And then it's on a Salted Sesame bagel It is insane let's just tell our everybody, well, they know how you feel about food. And we had to order lunch today before Rob got here. And he was busy and he could not respond to what he would want.

And picking food for Rob was the most stressful experience for Olivia and I boat, even though we're not saying stressful anymore. We're not saying stressful. Why? What are we saying? What's the word we're saying? Every time we say, I'm stressed, we're telling our body we're stressed. And we don't want our bodies to be stressed.

So we're going to stop saying it. But what's the word we chose instead? There's a lot of stimulus around. That situation, I would say, if we're not going to use the word stressful, I would say it was, we can't use activating for fucking everything. No, because that's your trigger word. Well, and if it's a thing that made your body stressed, just eliminating it from your vocabulary? No, you switch it to something else because then you start signaling your body to do something else. So if you feel the stress hormone kick in and you're like, I'm stressed, then your body's like, oh, you are.

Let's fucking go. Right. So when you feel stressed, you can say, I'm feeling happy now. Oh, no, there was no sense of happiness picking a meal for you. Zero. All stress. What's what I mean? You can't just like fully deflect what you're feeling.

We can change it. What's another word? I guess you can reframe it, but it's still like essentially stress. How did you feel about the turkey burger? we got you. It was good. It was fine. Wait, I need another word for that moment.

For stress? Yeah, if we're not going to use stress for that. It's high impact. High, sleek, chaotic. It's like high impact sports. Picking it. Extreme. How is that better than...

It was a very extreme experience. Heightened? Like, how is that better, though, than feeling stressed? Because the word heightened and extreme... You're telling your body... Don't take negative. contact. But now it will, if that's the word you're using

when you're feeling stressed. No. If you're like, I need to pick something for Rob, this is extreme. That's going to feel better than, I'm fucking stressed. I don't know. Do you want a breakfast burrito or turkey burger? We really debate is a lot. It's stressful.

What would you have picked? I didn't. I don't know. I don't. I don't know. Okay. You did good. We did the best we could with what we were given. Yeah. Yeah, you barely know me.

But the thing is, it was even hard to pick a restaurant for you. Because we're like, he won't want that. He won't want that. Because you always say no to all the things. Yeah, you guys pick places that only have salads, usually. That's not true. We don't want to go to sleep. Like, if we eat, like, I know you would like dumplings or something like that.

No, he would like tacos. I like tacos. I like tacos. I said Hugo's tacos. You said Hugo's tacos. Oh, you don't like Hugo's tacos. That's not that I don't like Hugo's tacos. I like Hugo's tacos.

If we're going to get tacos, I would rather get like legit tacos, which are. Like Trejo's tacos? Like Monsters. Do you like Treos? Tresos is good. We still have to go to that place. What's the one that I sent you when you're like, I've been there. What's it called?

Bill. Is it Villas? Yes. It's here? I haven't, no, I haven't. It's here? It's here? It's here?

I've been to their like pop-up stand before they became. But now they have like a brick and mortar, right? Where is it? I think it's in Lake Highland Park or Pasadena. Interesting. They look really good. What are they? We need to start.

We just need to bring a video on group from with us. For our food outings? For our food tour. They're just talking. They're supposed to be the best. I have a question. Yeah. It has nothing to do with tacos.

Okay. What I would like to know how you guys feel about this? Oh boy. I know. So. Hold on. I have to get your glasses.

Oh boy. The transitional lenses. Can we? Oh, it's the first time they're on video. Yeah. People have been asking. Let me tell you. Can we put the sun in?

So we can. Oh, you guys. I do need to talk to you about something now. What? Seriously. I'd get scared when she says seriously. I don't think I like the transition. No.

I don't think I like The transition. What happens? Was it because we bullied you? No, it's because when I wear them and then I'm like dropping my kids off for school, then it's like half sunglasses, half not. And when I look at myself in the reflection, I look weird. So all the things.

It looks like you just always have sunglasses on and it makes you feel a little uncomfortable. And then when I'm doing Zoom calls and if there's natural light coming in, I'm kind of like... Right now, I think the lights from the cameras are kind of making them a little darker. No, I don't think like fluorescent e lights will do that. I think it's like ultra...

I think it's sunlight. That will do it. Looks a little darker to me. No, it looks a little darker because they have like a green tint. Well, I mean, those were all of the things that we said were probably going to be an issue. I feel really...

I feel really bad about my decisions in life. Because I like the glasses. Don't you say that about my friend? Thanks. No problem. Here's what I was going to ask you guys. What? Listen, I'm not opposed to being wrong, right?

I think I was really wrong about the transitional glasses. I think that was a bad move. And especially to get a second pair. That was not a great thing. That wasn't a good thing. You got a second pair? Yeah, Costco, remember? Costco, the Rayban ones.

I did. I've got a second pair. Where was I when you said that? You were there, dude. You went with her to Costco. She's like Dory from finding me. It is accurate. Okay. Side note. What?

So I just want to know what you guys think about this. Sarah Jessica Parker said her attitude, she was talking about her attitude towards wellness and toxic nature of self-care as a societal construct. I think the concept of self-care makes people feel. terrible and lousy and isolated that they can't afford access to or even dream of self-care. And so I know I push it on you a lot, right? Mm-hmm. But she's a rich celebrity at a time to practice self-care. Hey.

What the hell? It's true. Let us get there. We're getting there. But you guys are in cahoots over here? What? I want to know, one, how you guys feel about that. Do you think that that's accurate?

And do you think that someone could build into their day no matter what their circumstances are? Trust me, I love Sarah Jessica Parker. But I think that her, it's probably, first of all, that's like a quote taken out of something, right? Out of context. So it's out of context. And I'm sure she would say something like just allowing yourself

to have five minutes to shower and do that for yourself in the morning when you're busy. That could be considered self-care. And I'm sure she would agree with that. And so that's taken out of context and it's making it sound like her idea of self-care is like, if you can afford to go to the spa or whatever. And I'm sure that's not what she meant because self-care can be found in like the littlest of things. Yes.

Self-care for me is like, I'll ride the peloton. Yeah. That's both of you. Or you share the same. Get a bike. Yeah. Or like I play softball because it helps me turn my brain off. That's self-care.

So do you think though that that's toxic if that messaging is being pushed? Like self-care is important. Do you think that when someone has certain privileges in their life that they should keep them to themselves because it could affect other people negatively? Or do you think it's good to share the things you do regardless of how they land on people? I mean, I think it's fine. Like, I think authenticity is most important. And if your authentic version is beyond means of other people, like. You shouldn't have to hide.

You shouldn't have to hide it, but it's also fun for people not to be able to relate to you anymore. Totally. And just unfollow them. Because what are we, we're talking, this is like a social media conversation? I don't know. For the most part? I don't know. I didn't think of it as well, people, I think it's that there is a culture of like the health and wellness and self-care and all this.

And it has become an industry in itself. I think there's more value coming to it than anything else. I do too. The fact that people are trying to prioritize self-care and whichever version they can afford is more valuable than the people that are going to feel bad because they can't afford this version of self-care. But do you feel, coming at you, do you feel that there's a difference between sharing truthfully your experience? experience, like, you guys plug your cars in, right? You talk about the charger for your cars. We know to have a car that you plug in, you're living a certain lifestyle. Correct? No. Mm-hmm. Do you see a difference between authentically sharing your experience and flossing? Yeah, of course. Okay. Well, you, I don't, I, I, I, you're the anti- floss. I know. You have your own

brand, like you're not going to talk about certain things that are going to make you unrelatable to your audience. You have, there's an awareness of who you're talking to. But I'm also genuinely the type of person that would rather go to like a dingy coffee shop, you know what I mean, than some fancy, you know what I'm saying? It's true. It's my DNA. Like, that's not her trying to relate to people. That's just who I am. But if you're posting about a vacation, like you're not taking photos from first class that you're probably flying. Not necessarily.

But mostly. You would never... No, I would never do that. I mean, like, you have an awareness of who follows you or who is looking to you or what this content's going to say. There's just a general awareness. It doesn't necessarily mean I have an awareness of who's following me.

It's just I have an awareness about life and the world. What is going to come off weirdly? Because you know what... I'm an overly considerate person. And that borderline sometimes, like, the people pleasing, which I could do better with. But I don't really see you as a people please. I've never seen you front of people please me.

He's like, he pleased me once. Every time that comes up, I'm like, my little brothers, who I'm just always like, fucking Rob. It's, you're a contrarian is what I've, I've noticed. That is a projection. You need to back me up here. I'm scared. Yeah.

You better do what she says. I better do what she says. Otherwise, you're not. We've talked about this. You're not a contrarian to me. You are to Rob, though. But he is to both of us. He is to both of us.

Depending on the day. Most days. Depending on the thing. Most things. Do you find yourself more contrary with certain people than others? Yeah. So we're the most. Absolutely.

People I'm comfortable with. I feel comfortable voicing my opinion. Super comfortable with us. Super from day one. This was a compliment. I don't see any problem here. From day one. He was like, I don't care what you think you're wrong.

My brother thinks I'm very contrary. And I've admitted to him I am with him. With you. Right. Correct. I think, because my brother and I, we're very similar in our relationships with our brothers. Yeah.

It's because anything I would say growing up, anything I ever, he's always like, you don't know what you're talking about kind of. thing, right? So I think that has like trained us to just be contrary with them and like, you know, because they push our buttons. Snap back. Yeah. But here's the thing. I think it has to do with alignment of views or taste. Like for instance, if he wants me to put Chipotle Tabasco on my burrito and tells me it's going to be fire, I may not like the taste of Chipotle. I hate Chipotle. Thank you. See, if you told me. The flavor.

The flavor, not the restaurant. Not the restaurant. You know, the flavor. Let's keep clear. So it's not like I'm trying to be a dick. I'm not trying to be contrary. I don't like Chipotle, right? So.

But is there someone that could recommend that to you that you wouldn't be contrary about? If Roy was like you need to try this. I would try it. I would try it. I would. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yes. So it does depend on where it's coming from. It does a little bit. Well, I mean, that's a hard case because he's clearly a food god. He knows. Yeah, he knows. So the weight of it coming from him is different than your brother. Right.

There are different people you're going to listen to. Yeah, I would never if my brother was like, like, I hate mushrooms. If my brother was like, you have to try these mushrooms, I'd be like, fuck off. He's literally an authority of food, of food, though. You put them in the top 50 people in the world. I'm sure if there's someone you're trying to impress or I don't know. It'd be like, try that and I'd be like my favorite mushrooms. So when Rachel says she's a people pleaser.

When you say her people pleaser, do you think it's to the people you're close with? Or just people you don't know? There's, okay, there's different tiers and levels, right? There's like the closest of the close. Like, we can be 100,000% real no matter what, right? Yeah. I think we can still be polite with each other sometimes though, right? Now we're pretty real.

Polite. Like, we're fighting to each other. You'll consider her feelings. We're nurturing and kind and loving. Right. But I don't feel like you people please me. Like transitional lenses. No, because I remember when I...

Rude about it. Like remember when you... You weren't ready to break up with like your long-term high school boyfriend. Yeah. And you were really going through it. And I was like, oh, you're over it. It's done. And that was not people pleasing.

That was being real because you were over it. People pleasing me. You do not people pleasing me. I know. I don't. So that's why I'm trying to figure out this whole people pleasing thing. Like who does it apply to? Yeah.

Because you talk about it. Are you trying to say I'm two different people? No. No. Sorry. I'm wondering if we can let go of the story that you're, people pleaser. I don't know. It's just sometimes, you know, when you're still in that really like polite phase? You think we are? No. With friends. I don't, but I am still that, I can still be

that way with me. No, you can be considerate. I'm always considerate. And thoughtful, but that's not people pleasing. I just mean like if you're new friends, right? But you don't make any of those. I do. I'm just kidding. You do. I do. You do more. You do more. I do. I used to not. Yeah. Like there was definitely a time where I didn't have to kind of, right? But I'm really happy with the ones that I have made now. You've made good. Because your kids get older and school. I've made very good mom friends. And I'm super like grateful and appreciative for them. Yeah. And I'm always consider it no matter what. But that there is that like trial, not trial period. But like there is that period where you're still like, no, no, no, no. Like I'll do that and I'll get the kids and I'll do. And you do it. And you do that. And you do that. And you do that. And you do that. And you do. that too. Like you would do that too. You know what I mean? There's like that certain. Yes. Yes. Yes. certain like phase where and it's funny because I talk about one of like my newer friends who's a mom friends from school like we're both like we're such people pleasers like we both are like no no you no you no I'll do it no I'll do it and we like laugh at each other we're like oh my fucking God like we're such people pleasers we this is never going to stop no one's ever going to do anything because we're right no one's ever going to go because we're like but we acknowledge it and we talk about it you know and then you get more comfortable and you're like yeah if you could do that would really help me out whatever so there is like like that phase, but I, so I do do that. But I'm always consider it no matter what. I do do do. Yeah. I do

do do do. Okay. But you get that. You'd be the same exact way. I would. I would. Yeah. And we would do that. But I don't think that's problematic. Is it? I don't think so. It's only in circumstances like I explained with the curling iron when I was in fourth grade. That's problematic. Where you're getting burned. Yeah. And I didn't say anything. Physically. I literally just stood there like getting my ear burned like to a crisp and it was really painful and I just sat there and didn't say anything. Yeah, that hurts. That's weird. That's like that's issues. You know? Yeah. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Do you people please at all? Yeah. Of course. To who? People I don't know.

I mean, I told you. The masseuse. the clown I bought. Yeah, I'm not going to say anything. Do you ever try and people please the salespeople? Because I do. I'll find myself wanting to buy something because I don't want to come across. Yeah, you don't want to walk in and not get something. That's so ridiculous.

It's so ridiculous. I don't, yeah, I can walk away. You've never felt that like, well, I guess it's different because you probably don't have someone like helping you in a store and you feel like, oh, they've been helping me. in stores, Olivia? I know. I was like, what do you mean? What do you?

I don't understand. Like, I don't know. You go and try on a bunch of clothes at a time? Yeah. You do? Yeah. I didn't realize guys did that. You think I'd just been picking things out of mind?

Rob likes nice clothes. Yeah, but I thought they, like, I thought they, like, order them or something. I mean, I mostly do that now. That's what I thought. And then. Do you go to Mohawk General? Mohawk, no. No.

What's Milhawk General? Rob, that's near you. Didn't we get him something from there? We almost did. Because we were going to pick out clothes for you for your birthday. Actually, that's what I didn't pull the trigger on. Yeah. I could still do that.

Would you be weird if we picked out clothes for you? No. You would trust us, right? Okay. Well, we know one thing we can do. That's what we were going to do. I know. What happened?

Us. There was a reason. Like, we were deciding between three different things. You were on vacation for two months. And then you were traveling. She was traveling. We've definitely been gone. So much traveling.

Rob is really good at bowling. I wouldn't say really good at bowling. You have, I think you're really good at bowling. You do the like spin thing. Only good bowlers that like bowl do the spin thing and actually like knock them down. He was trying to teach me and I didn't learn. What happened? She just stopped doing what I told her to do.

My body started hurting. Like, you know. It can be painful. You can get sore. You just went back to using two hands. Olivia does use two hands through her legs like a little child. Did you see Nicole doing it though? Yeah, I did.

Sure did. And she was fucking slaying with that. That was only because of her nails. She first bowl was normal. She doesn't have to throw normal. Yeah, she knows how to. But then she was like, this is a bomb. Do you feel pressure going bowling if you're like with people you don't know super well?

And like you go up and front everybody and you're like. Did you feel pressure? I knew the people that. He was in the lane with us. With you guys and Nicole. That's true. My brother won a trip to Vegas. My brother got a turkey and won a trip to Vegas.

And guess what? Told my mom that night that he won a turkey and a trip to Vegas. I got a text from my mother. I got a text to my mother and she goes, John won a turkey and a trip to Vegas? Died laughing. That's amazing. She's like, where's the turkey?

The exciting part, though, about him winning that trip to Vegas is that it was like, okay, if you get three strikes, you're going to Vegas. He had two. And we're all standing there watching. Yeah. You know, so it wasn't just like a random. You won a trip to Vegas. No. It was like the pressure of all of us watching.

And then he did it. And we got to like all be in it together. And that was exciting. I would have failed because I don't do well under pressure. You would have failed because you probably can't get three strikes. No. I mean that last one moment, like if you had to get that strike right now. If it was like hit a pin and you'll win, he would have just like brought in the other lane.

It would have been like three lanes over. Did you hear what your brother had them say? Oh, Olivia. Too tall. No. Do tell. Nope. Did you hear what he had him say?

No. He had him say his graffiti name. Well, no. No. It's not a graffiti name. It is. But there was a graffiti. He used a graffiti name in his bowling name and they pronounced it wrong.

So he went up and corrected them. Yeah, but then they also said, like, where he was from. Then he also included the crew name. Olivia and I looked at each other. We were like, we died. We were like, oh, no. Why did this feel like high school? And then there was, like, a bunch of different people there,

and I got scared for a second. Oh, because you're trained. I'm trained. Another crew. They're going to come like a gross. It was, were the graffiti gangs violent between them? Yes. Of course.

Well, some. Yeah, absolutely. Crews weren't like, oh, you're from that crew? Cool. It'd be like, where are you from? They're just doing graffiti or they're doing other things? Graffiti. Graffiti crews did not jive with each other unless they were affiliated crews.

But I mean, like, when you say graffiti crew, are they also... Is this hilarious explaining this to Rob? I had a... Are they also, like, selling drugs, I guess? No. No. It's literally just graffiti. We're talking about.

We're talking about... Graffiti. Yeah, like you, it's a very, like, prideful thing, like, whatever crew you're from. Yeah. Anyways. It was a thing. I mean, my brother's an artist, though. He still does graffiti art.

It's not like he's in some, like, yeah, he's not tagging the local high school. Yeah. Yeah. No. But yeah, Olivia and we looked at. We died. Yeah, I did. I got nervous.

I could tell you were like, all the people around. And I was like, oh. There's a rumble about. at my house as a teenager. Over a graffiti crew? Yes. From, no. From a graffiti crew in my home.

Because of a painting you had up in the house? No, because it was like one crew showed up and the other crew didn't like that crew. Olivia has a whole other life that nobody knows about. Everybody knows now. They sure do. So when people start claiming crews, I start shaking. She had like PTSD. That's just a little.

because to me the crew thing is more like turf for drugs and there's like Rob's like when you're a jet you're a jet all the way to the last day

But there's like a financial reason why you don't go on someone else's turf because no this is just clout yeah just straight

California thing I don't know I only grew up in California in the valley but But it was like you, these crews got clout and they got their name and fame. And like the bigger crew. And like the bigger you were. The more bombing you did.

The more whatever. The more prestigious you were as a tagging crew. I don't know that we had that in Chicago. I'm sure you did. Oh, Chicago for sure. A hundred percent. And the other things. Yeah, it was gay.

I remember we moved into an apartment in Lincoln Square and there were like all these tags going up. and the like alderman left notes saying there was like a turf war going on between the gangs. I just keep picturing Westside story and I'm dying. Me too, because he's like, it's a turf war. Yeah, it's a turf war and there's like,

dun-da-dun. But there were like shootings and stuff too for that. But I'm pretty sure that was that was drug-related. Chicago, my goodness. Yeah. No, they would, things would get gnarly just on names.

Like if someone took someone's name or had the same name, they'd get, like, beat up and... It was like an Instagram handle. It's like an Instagram handle. That's exactly what it's like. OG Instagram handle. That's pretty funny. It was the OG Instagram handle.

Because you had your followers. Like, it was like a thing. Did they have, like, a website? Where did they... Website? We didn't even have computers. They're followers. They're just, like, going around trying to find their tags.

So there would be prestigious places to get up. That's what they call it, right? So, like, if you got a certain amount of billboards, like, let's say one tagging crew got five billboards on Ventura Boulevard, and then another tagging crew would go hit up that billboard, they'd be in trouble because it was like that crew already claimed that billboard. Seems like a Grand Theft Auto challenge. Yeah. Like a video game challenge. That's what it's like, but they're alive and they're jumping up on those billboards. They're alive.

You know. That sounds fun. I mean. Hey, it was a good time. It was a good time. It was a time. Did you guys ever tag? No.

She did. She did a lot of times. I did as a kid. What was your handle? It was Lou. Lou? L-O-U? No, L-U-E.

And then Rachel took off the E a long time ago. I'm responsible for that? You're responsible for taking off the E. It was a battle between the friends, like my original friends wanted the E. And then my new friends at the time wanted to get rid of the E. And I, you and Leah, decided no E. I never knew that.

You don't use an E, right? When I write you? Yeah. When you spell Rachel. No, she decided it. L-E. I know. I was L-E.

Yeah, well, it's a Lou. Like, because if you write Lulu, you're not going to write L-U-E, L-U-E. That's what I did do, though. Yeah, but we don't do that. See that? attitude. That one. We changed it. Any Heelhouser. Okay. We've covered so much. So much. So much. Also, I feel like Roy probably knows a little bit about this stuff. I think he knows more than any of us. What's that supposed to mean? Wait, is that bad that I said that? Cut it out.

Cut it. I'm just giving you shit now. Why? No, he, he has tattoos. When I said my brother was in jail, he said that's what's up. Yeah, he did. Like literally. He was like, oh, got it. That's what's up. Yeah. No, he's for sure.

He understands. LA. He's born-raised, homie. I know. I was just trying to make you feel bad. Thanks. Yeah. Thanks for that.

Appreciate it. We'll leave it in. She's having fun. I can tell. She likes her little position. Right? I am quite comfortable. Yeah.

You feel really, you feel good right now. All right. Well, until next week. Until next week, you get to see our faces again. Bye. That was a hate gum podcast.