Broad Ideas with Rachel Bilson & Olivia Allen - Sarah Wayne Callies on Getting Spat in the Face on Prison Break Set, and Giving Birth with Her Dog

Episode Date: May 20, 2024

Sarah Wayne Callies [Prison Break, Colony, The Walking Dead] talks to Rachel and Olivia about her new Prison Break rewatch podcast, her experience with adopting, and giving birth at the same time as her dog. They also discuss remedies for postpartum depression, inner voice, and Sarah getting spat in the face on the set of Prison Break.Broad Ideas is supported by Blissy. Try now risk-free for 60 nights, at blissy.com/rachel, and use code RACHEL to get an additional 30% off.Broad Ideas is supported by Posh Peanut. Go to PoshPeanut.com/BROAD, and use promo code BROAD for 20% off your first order.Broad Ideas is supported by Maybelline. If you, or someone you know is experiencing anxiety or depression, Maybelline New York is funding free, confidential support: Text TOGETHER to 741741 or visit Maybelline.com/bravetogether to learn more.Broad Ideas is supported by Claritin. Go to claritin.com right now for a discount so you can live Claritin Clear. Broad Ideas is supported by Tropical Smoothie Café. Visit one of Tropical Smoothie Cafe’s 1400+ locations or order online or through their app.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hax is back for its fifth and final season, and so is The Hacks podcast. Join the Hacks creators and showrunners, Lucia and Yellow, Paul W. Downs, and Jen Statsky as they unpack the Emmy-winning comedy series. On each episode, hear stories from the set, what goes on in the writer's room, and how these beloved characters close out their final season. Watch Hax streaming exclusively on HBO Max and listen to The Hacks podcast on HBO Max, or wherever you get your podcasts. You guys, I've had so much caffeine today.

Are you playing footsie with me? What are you doing? I feel like I have the... She's putting her foot up my pants. I feel like I have those socks, too. They are, they're the great. Oh, okay. Sarah Wayne Callies,

you will know her from prison break. You will. The Walking Dead. The Walking Dead. The Walking Dead. Is Lori. Yeah. The company you keep.

She has a podcast, Prison Breaking, with Sarah and Paul. It's their rewatch of prison break. It is. It is. This isn't a lie. It is not a lie. I don't know. I just went.

Let's have Sarah. Join us, please, so I stop talking. Sometimes when the work inside of Rachel's little brain, all these thoughts are swirling, round and round. inside to join us on this journey as we take a little ride we'll talk about dogs and kids and things we'll talk about chicks and tampon strings we'll talk about boys that are naked because people die welcome welcome you guys start talking I'm just looking at some of it oh she's she's tweaking on the well because one time we were left in charge and then her whole video was out of

to focus and we couldn't even use it. Oh, God. But you get it. You have a podcast. Well, our podcast, this season is audio only. I notice. And so we're actually looking at like, if we do season two, what does it take to do the video component?

Yes. Because it's like a whole level of other stuff. We're now in this world where we don't just have to act, produce, directed, right? We also have to, like, be DPs instead of lighting. and sound equipment. And there comes a certain point where my brain just hits overload. Right.

Yeah. And you have kids. Right. Yeah. And right now I feel like I have seven of them. There's only two. But they're just at the times of their lives where they take up as much space

as all seven dwarves. And so... How old are they? There's 16 and 10. Oh, holy criss. Okay. Yeah. Those are ages.

In it. Constant. Those are ages. Those are ages. But I got to tell you, It's also amazing because they're people with opinions and ideas and they feel differently and think differently than I do. And, you know, I don't know about you guys, but actually the early, the baby years. Yeah.

I was like, okay. Yeah, this is great. Like, now that we're people, I'm like, oh, my God, I could do this all day. Like, we can talk about the things that you think in the world and what are you reading and what are you seeing? and what are you marching for and what's making you fired up? And that's, you know, I'm, I think this, this is what I had kids for these ages now. Oh, that's really cool. Really cool.

So I have two sons and I got to tell you, if you can plan not to have two boys. I have two boys. Dude, it's so much work. It's so much. I tell you what, I let my husband off the hook as soon as I had a son. Because I was like, oh my gosh, there's so many things about you that I thought were a choice. And they're not a choice. This is how you guys come baked. Yes.

So we're good. You can't control these things yourself. Oh, my God. That's amazing. That is amazing. Do you talk openly about the adoption? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, my son is black, and so it would be somewhat silly if we didn't. It would be really suss. Yeah. It'd be like, but you've been married for so long.

It might seem silly, although we. We have a sense of humor about everything in our family and that's kind of how we deal with things. And so every now and again, someone will say to my, you know, my oldest kid, oh, my gosh, you look so much like your dad. And I'll say, yeah, but isn't it great that Oaks looks so much like me? And then everyone gets quiet for a minute. You're like, this is humor. This is, okay. You find out what kind of a room you're in.

Oh, yeah. Do I leave this room or stay in this room? Yeah. Are we cool? Like, could I be friends with you or this is just DOA? Exactly. Are we allies here or? No, okay. Bye-bye. Oh, my gosh. Well, amazing. So was it, so the adoption process, like you were wanting a second kid, was it you were always drawn to adoption or was there other reasons or how did that come about? You know, we, I mean, my husband and I met in university and so we've been together forever and we always sort of talked about, I mean, this sounds. To be fair, when we had this conversation, we were like 20 and 22, but it's also still kind of, there's a lot of people on the planet.

And the planet's maybe growing more people than we can sustain. And we thought, well, I'm an only child. And I was like, I kind of like the idea of siblings because there were things that felt lonely to me growing up. And I was like, I'd like to do siblings. And so our plan was to have one and adopt one. So that was always a part of the plan, but then also after my pregnancy, I got nailed with a kind of postpartum depression that I honestly didn't know existed. And so it was probably two years before I kind of like moved through that. And the idea of risking that with a second pregnancy didn't feel like.

Like even a safe move? Safe. Yeah. Yeah. But that's good parenting. Hmm. I mean, I will say it was such a joy with my son when he was born to be like, oh, this is what people talk about, these early days. And, you know, because I'd gone through this whole relactation protocol, so there was a little bit of hormone stuff involved.

But I was not exhausted and out of my mind with, like, the hormone dump and, you know, just the way that you come into those first couple weeks of motherhood when you do it the old-fashioned way, it was so beautiful to be able to be present. Right. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's so interesting with postpartum depression because there's no real rhyme or reason or you might not even deal with anything like that prior and then it kind of just happens, which is so interesting to me because I know people where it's like one kid, it happened the other it didn't and you don't see it coming oh yeah oh yeah like it's not like oh if you just experience that you're always going to experience that from what i think that makes sense from story i mean

of course yeah yeah but i only have one daughter so i only did it once and you know it was it was good like for me but um it's just interesting how you hear stories and you just wonder like what happens in the body or you know hormones or in the like what causes it and i don't think they know right I mean, I have no idea. All I know is even the pregnancies for me were different. Right. Like one pregnancy, I felt amazing. The second one, I was so sick and depressed.

And like, I prepared myself for postpartum because I suffer from depression in general. So I was terrified. I was like, so I was like, they're like, if you eat your placenta. I was like, give it to me, feed it to me, like I'll eat your placenta. Did you do it? Yeah. And did it work? I didn't get postpartum depression with my first.

I did with my second and I didn't eat the placenta. I didn't just like gnaw on it like a cheeseburger. You didn't like eat it right out of the uterus. Yeah. They dehydrated it and put it in pills. Yeah. And I didn't get depression with the first one, but I got severe postpartum anxiety. I actually think that's a better word for what I, no one knows a postpartum anxiety is unless you've had it.

But I think that's a better word for what I had because I remember I would wake up. I mean, first of all, my first baby never took a bottle. So every single feeding that was until solid food was me. There was no break. And it, for people who haven't done it, it's just kind of hard to like, you're talking about sustaining an entire human life for four months without help. And it's sort of nuts. And of course, I don't know about you guys,

but like the whole lactation process in my mind was like a Disney movie. And it was, like, except that this was the part of a Disney movie where they like shoot Bambi's mom. Like it was so tough and so painful and so. But I thought like doves light out your shoulders and butterflies fly and you do this and it's great. It's natural. And then you're five days in and you're like, I'm failing. Everything hurts. Yeah.

How is this going on? And I remember I would wake up, feed the baby, change the baby, put the baby, back to bed and then not be able to sleep because I would go, I'm going to have to do this again in two and a half hours and I'm going to die. And that, I think anxiety is a much better because I couldn't relax. Your nervous system is fucked. Fucked. Like it feels like to me, when people, my cousin just had a baby and I was like, oh, forgot to tell you. Like, it feels like you went to war. Like, you're literally And she was like, why doesn't anyone tell you this? And I'm like, I don't know.

We don't want to scare you. But like, it's traumatizing. You have this human that it's the scariest sensation in the world to give you something so precious and little and be like, keep it alive. And it needs this amount of food. And if your body doesn't make, like, and then sleep and then eat and then make sure that you have enough milk. And like, it's traumatizing. Yeah. at the point at which your body has been put through more than your body has ever been put through

in your life like I was you know I was 29 when I got pregnant I was like natural childbirth let's do this it'll be fine so I had a midwife assisted homebirth and oh wow it went well like I mean we all survived it and you know like it was great to wake up the next morning and be like I'm in my own bed but um I mean halfway through I went I went to the medicine chest and I, medicine chest, like, I'm on a ship. And you're like, yeah, Dr. Quinn, medicine woman. I rode my horse in my bonnet. I went to my bathroom and I took two extra strength Tylenol because I was in so much pain.

And my midwife laughed so hard that she couldn't talk for like a solid minute. She's just like, I'm going to do anything. No, no, no, it's going to help. She's like, you're throwing ping pong balls at a tank. And I was like, okay, well, I'm stuck at home. I'm too far to go to a hospital and there's no epidural. so like I have to do something. But, you know, it takes forever.

And so you come into this new experience with your body going, I'm so tired. I'm in so much pain. I can't necessarily sit up or walk, et cetera. And I think that really is the time in life where you want to be surrounded by your mom, five aunts, three sisters, and female cousins. And I didn't plan for any of that. And that was my fault. Also, this has nothing to do with anything, but it is a bit odd.

My dog went into labor the same time I went into labor. What? Stop it. I shit you not had eight puppies. Oh my God. The day I had my kid, the midwife walks in, looks at this dog in labor and goes, I don't do that. And my husband's like, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine. just deal with my wife. I'll handle the dog. And then the dog had a couple complications. And my husband's

on the phone with his dad. And he goes, so, you know, one of the dogs, one of the puppies like crawled under the couch and the dog ignored it. What should I do? And my husband's father says, your dog will forgive you if you walk away from her right now. If you don't go sit by your wife's side, she never would have. So you leave the dog. You go to you. the wife. All the puppies were fine. The one baby was fine. I do think my dog was a little judgy. You know, like one? You did one of those? Oh, I did eight. I'm just saying. But it was a really crazy time in our household. And then our dog, I can't believe, I've never talked about any of this. And then our dog got mastitis. So we had to bottle feed the eight puppies.

Stop it. No, no, no. No, no. And I was like, I need you here by the end of the day. Oh, and she and my father-in-law got on a plane. And honestly, I feel like they showed up five minutes later. That's not possible because we live on the west coast of Canada and they live on the east coast of the U.S. And they stayed with us for the next six weeks. And I did not cook a meal or do a dish or bottle feed a puppy. It was a wild time.

That is actually incredible. That's one of the best stories I've ever heard. I've never heard of a dog getting mastitis before. No. I didn't even, like, that dog was looking at you like, I want warm soup. Where's my soup, right? 100%. Yeah.

100%. Wait, what kind of dog I have to know? I have to have a visual. She was a white golden retriever. She was the best. She was amazing. Yeah, and she'd gotten sort of accidentally knocked up when we had left for a weekend to go on a baby moon. And she'd got into heat.

And our dog sitter didn't know about the birds and the bees when it came to dogs. And so we came back and we did the math and we're like, oh, my God, we're due the same week. We're doing the same week. That's really sweet, though. She's like your soul sister. 100%. We would lie in our last week. We would lie because the kids were all, the puppies, whatever, the litter was born in July.

And it was super hot. And we would just lie on the kitchen floor, belly to belly, just like two beached whales being like, I can't. I'm dying. I can't. This is a lot. It's a lot. This is so hot. Yeah.

My hormones couldn't keep up. No. Maybe that's partly why. Oh, my, wait, did you keep a puppy? Because it was the same birthday? These are my questions. We, no, totally fair. My midwife had just gone through a terrible divorce.

So we sent her home. We're like, when the puppy is ready, you get the pick of the litter. So she took the biggest, strongest boy she could find. She's like, I'm replacing this stupid man with a truly loyal, beautiful puppy. Aw. And we didn't have room for another dog because we had this obviously brand new baby, but my husband's best friend flew up actually from Texas and one of the puppies home with him. That's nice.

So we sort of kept the line in the family. Yeah. I'm glad you didn't keep the puppy. No, I was just thinking you can't take a baby. Of course you can take your puppy. No. That would be crazy. It was a lot.

But the Christmas card that year was our like three-month-old. surrounded by eight puppies. That's really cute. I don't think I've sent a Christmas card since. I was like, that's it. I'm dropping a mic on Christmas cards. It'll never be better than this. Goodbye.

That is the best story. It really is. And it makes me think like, it's like you needed that anxiety to protect you from that happening again. You know what I mean? It was like, this cannot happen again. Right?

It was a lot. So how did you move through yours then? Like what was your process to get to the other side of it? Zoloft. Okay. Like it got to the point I tried on my own and I did everything under the moon. And then I'm sober and it was getting really close to me drinking. And I was like, oh, this is actually very dangerous.

This isn't safe. This isn't a safe level of OCD and anxiety and all that stuff. So my doctor was like, you need to. go on medicine and I did and within two weeks I felt safe again. Yeah. I was like I'm okay. Like I can, I can do this. Yep. And support. A lot of support. Like we, you know, Rachel was there right in the beginning like best friends, family, mom, all the support possible. But not everybody gets that. So I realized I was really lucky. But then with the second kid, it was, worse. It was the depression. So like it's tricky. And I wonder like does our body do that to like

protect us for a certain amount of time to not get pregnant so fast? Because there's always a reason. That's a really interesting theory. It prevents you from from doubling down on the kind of or anything. I mean like anything. No, I mean, it's a good question. I actually, I feel like I recently read that the FDA just approved a drug that you can take for postpartum depression, that it's designed for PPD, and that you can like, and, you know, we should look more deeply into this, but it's something like you take it for four days. Oh, wow. Because it's, I think it's all about, like, rebalancing your hormones, because I remember,

I was too scared to, I didn't tell anyone. right? So like, we're actors. So I was like, I'm going to act fine because I'm so ashamed of how I'm feeling. I see how happy my husband is. I see how happy my in-laws are and all of, you know, we'd also just move to a new country. I didn't have a big community, but like everyone is over the moon about this baby. And I had nothing but love for the baby. But I woke up every day and prayed to die. I was like, they will all be better off without me. I am terrible at this. the best thing that can happen to this child is for me to not

fuck them up. Yeah. And but I was so afraid that if I said that to anybody, I was, I mean, look, your brain isn't like exactly a rational place at the time. So I was like, A, I'll be institutionalized. And I'll spend the rest of my life in Bellevue. I don't know why I was worried about that. I don't live in New York. Or, B, my husband will leave me because he'll be, like you're a fucking monster. How could you not be happy right now? Like I had all of these fears.

So it was like a year and a half later and I was going in, my neck went out and I have a buddy who's a chiropractor. And he's also like just kind of a genius. He's the sports medicine and acupuncture and Chinese medicine. He lectures all the world in like three languages. And he takes a look at me and he's like, what's going on with you? And I was like, done. I'm fine. And he was like, uh-huh. And he's like, you're crying. And I have no idea. I'm sobbing. I have no idea.

So he does the thing where they take your pulses and look at your tongue. And he just looks at me and he goes, oh, Sarah, why didn't you tell me sooner? You're making it cry. And I had kind of thought like this is the rest of my life. Like this is every day. It's been 18 months. This is not going to change. Four weeks after he puts me on this regimen of like, you're going to take these herbs, you're going to take these supplements.

I'm going to stick needles in you. Four weeks later. I was better. Wow. A week later, I started to feel the fog lift. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. It's like the mental illness is like this.

It's like somebody just puts horse blinders on you. Right. Yeah. And when you just start to see a little light under the bottom, you're like, oh, there's the potential for healing. Right. And I couldn't believe how fast it could be addressed. And he was like, this is just an imbalance.

And it's an imbalance that some people's bodies fix on their own and some people's bodies aren't. But it was so simple to him. There were a bunch of herbs that I'll be honest, were like, who knows? Is writing on the, and I know Chinese is in a language. I couldn't even tell you if it was Mandarin or Cantonese, but it was not in a language that I speak. Right. Put me on calcium, magnesium, vitamin D, the basic, like, take them every day if you're a woman stuff. Yep.

He did a lot of kidney. He's like, your adrenals are toast because you've been in fight or flight forever. We did a lot of rebalancing of that. And this is also now like 15 and a half years ago. Yeah, totally. Right, right. Though it was a while. It's just fascinating.

Like, anyone that's dealt with depression, whether it's postpartum or just generalized depression, good old fashion. Good old fashion. Garden variety. The medicine test, got to go to that one. The craziest thing is that, like, that a hormone can create the voice that says I should die. And then you balance that and that, it's like nothing changes, but that voice is gone. What a miracle. And there's so many people that are chasing that voice and they think that that's how they have to live, like you were saying, like, this is me.

It doesn't have to be. There is miracles for that voice to just take pause. Broad Ideas is supported by Blissie. Who knew that a better pillowcase is all you need for better sleep? Let's talk about practicing self-care while you sleep. Set yourself up with better sleep with Blissie's award-winning 100% mulberry silk pillowcases. Seriously, silk is what's best for your hair and skin. It reduces frizz, tangles, and prevents breakage.

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favorite celebrities and influencers. We can't say their names, but if you know, you know. Right now, Posh Peanut is offering our listeners 20% off your first order with promo code Broad. Go to poshpeanat.com slash broad and use promo code broad for 20% off your first order. That's poshpeanat.com slash broad. promo code broad. When you say something really interesting, which is you think that that voice is you. Right. I was convinced that this is my voice and learning to separate that voice, even just the negative

voice that comes up on a regular basis. learning to separate that voice from my understanding of myself has been really critical for like life in every, yeah, to be honest, everything. Because I think being a parent, you end up confronting the parts of yourself that you're like, ooh, I really don't want to pass this on. And so starting to learn to make friends with that voice and, parts of that voice I think are really important, but also recognizing it's not me. Right.

God, you know, I'm, it's so interesting. You know, when you were saying before your baby didn't take a bottle and it created this anxiety and whatever and, you know, I always think about my baby because she never took a bottle. It was only boob forever. if I, I would always tell people like if I didn't have her in bed with me, like we co-slept, she was in my bed. If I didn't have that, I think I would have suffered massively. Oh, interesting.

Anxiety depressed, but she was right there because it was constant. Right. I don't sleep. You know, it's like, okay, it's going to happen again in two hours, but she was just there. So I would just roll over. She has some. Yeah. Whatever. If you have to get up, you get up. But like, having her there was my personal saving grace.

And I know there's a lot of, you know, opinions on babies and beds and whatnot and whatever. But that saved me. We don't like a few ends. We're done with opinions. Well, and also, like, small PSA to anybody out there who's thinking of having a baby. It's also great. Yes, yes. I'm not trying to chase you off of this.

But I did become one of those people who, like, anybody I knew who got pregnant, I was like, we're going to talk about. postpartum depression. Yeah. Right. When you're three months post and I'm just going to check in on you and, you know, because I didn't know anything about it. Nobody talked about it. I was the first one in my friend group to have a kid. And so I was like, I just want, I want everybody to know it's okay. It's treatable. It's treatable within the framework, everything from Zoloft to acupuncture. Like, you can, whatever it is that you're comfortable with, there is a way of addressing this that is achievable. And we just have to keep talking about it until everybody feels like they can ask for help, I think. And take away the stigma.

That's exactly why we find it so important. Because I feel like once you just kind of say it, then everybody around you start, oh, yeah, my cousin or my aunt or my, it's like, it doesn't matter what it is, no matter what it is that we think we need to hide due to shame or guilt or wanting to, you know, put on a good face, the minute we just say it, it's like, oh, yeah, me too. And then you get that medicine of comfort of like, oh, I'm not alone. Yeah, because that is the lie of mental illness, that you're alone.

That's it. Yeah. And you will always be alone and you can't get through this. And that, I think, as soon as we pierce through that and go, you're actually, you're not alone. There are a thousand people standing in the room with you right now. Yeah. That starts to, that starts to really make a difference. I read the other day, and I don't know if this is true because I question it. But it said that 40, it was like scientists are now saying 40 percent of people. don't have an inner monologue. And I was like, wait, what? Are they all Tibetan Buddhists? This is what I'm saying. I'm like, hold on, I thought this was the human experience. And they did research and this is what I found fascinating. That when they studied it, they saw, there was a bunch of people that were followed

and they didn't have an inner monologue until they hit. trauma. What? Whoa. And I was like, oh, maybe that's why I've always had one. But I was like, did they not have it or were they just not aware of it? Like, because to me, if you hit any sort of anxiety, depression, mental illness, you become aware there's a voice inside of you that lies all the time, right? Right. Right. I mean, I feel like it's been there my whole life. This is what I'm saying. Yeah, so I don't understand. I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, want to do more research on this because I find it absolutely fascinating and I want to talk to everyone possible and be like, do you have an enormous? Like, yeah. I know you do.

Yeah, but like what's it like not to? Like, right. That's, I almost want to ask my husband. Do you think maybe he doesn't? Maybe because he's very in the present. And he's very, um, he also like if he's, if he thinks that he says, it. Do you know what I mean? Obviously there's pros and cons. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there's not, like early in our relationship. I was like, I wonder if there's some deep abiding whatever that he's thinking and not sharing with me. No, probably not. You know, and which is not like he's ferociously intelligent and super sophisticated in his thinking. But I don't think he has that like constant running commentary.

That's so interesting. It sounds so nice. Oh, my God. It sounds great. Oh, my God. It sounds wonderful. Peaceful. Yeah, they interviewed this mom and she was like, no, like I was so present with what I had because I had kids early and it was like getting this done and getting that done.

And there was no past and there was no future. There was just. And then trauma hit. And then she became aware of a voice. But she didn't think it happened. until then, and they're learning more about this. I would love to learn more about this because I find it fascinating. Like with your husband, you guys have been together for so long.

So long. So long. So long. I was 19 when we met and I'm 46 now. So long. Dude. And in this business, that is remarkable. Yeah.

He's not in the business, which helps. But, but yeah, it's nuts. I actually had a meeting with a couple earlier today. An actor I've known forever, and I just met his wife because we're looking at developing a project together. And I was like, when did you guys meet? They were like third grade. I was like, we didn't start dating until we were 16. I was like, oh, well then.

Oh, well, okay. And I mean, they've got kids in their late teens. Like these two are in their 50s. And I was like, you don't hear about that anymore. And I was like, okay, what's the secret? And they're like, we're best friends. I was like, all right. I know.

Because they always ask, like, Kevin Bacon and Kira Cedric, they're like, how are you still together? You know, and they're like, I don't know, we're just, we like each other, I guess, you know. Soce said they said, we just never have gotten divorced. That's like, their daughter, you know. Their daughter didn't say that's us. She's like, we just stay together. We've just never broken up. I'm like, that's one option.

It is one option. I, small thing, my very first job, Kira, was on a show that Kira was on. And this is in New York and it would have been 2002. And I remember, like, you know, I just met her in hair and makeup. And I was like, do you have kids? And she goes, yeah, I do. And I feel like we've had them for so long. And I thought about that the other day because I think my kids are about the age that her kids were around then.

And it's just such a funny. You're like, yeah, you have them for a really long time. And you realize that you have them through the meat of your life, through the like. Right. But it never forgot, you know, I talked to Kara a bunch on that job. That's the only thing I remember verbatim. And I was like, you're hilarious and very honest. That is hilarious.

That is hilarious. It's so funny how we always have just like takeaways that are so vivid and it's like the one thing, you know? Yeah. I feel like that happens a lot with people or jobs or whatever. And like it's, you spend so much time and then you just have like this one. A little nugget. Yeah. And I like it's that we never get rid of our kids. No. And maybe it's just stickiness, right? We're just not going to get divorced and we're not going to get rid of our kids. We're just going to stick with it. Right. Cool. Yeah, very cool. Well, it's also grounding to have someone, I would imagine for you to have someone that's known you through the progression of your career. And it's probably very little.

You're growing up. Yeah. And it's probably very little like, yes, you have a career and you've done all these. incredible things, but it's probably very little about you. Right? Yeah. I mean, I don't know how people, look, I don't think this is just me. I've talked to friends who are in the same situation, you know, regularly you think you're never going to work again and oh my God and blah, blah, blah. The sky's falling. My husband will just turn to me and be like, quit. Like, you know, get a job at the grocery store. I don't care. And I find that simultaneously comforting and absurd because I'm like, no, this is all I know how to do. I'm a storyteller. But what strikes me, to be honest, since this is the only thing I know, that's my normal, what strikes me as incredibly

challenging and I just, my heart just goes out to folks. I've been, I'm sure Rachel, you've been in this position too. Like, I've been on shows with people who went from nothing to famous in eight months and never again know what it's like. like to date someone who doesn't know who they are first. And that must be enormously hard. When we both met, we were strangers. We were equally strangers to each other. And I can't imagine what it's like to go out with someone knowing. And maybe this is just the world now because everyone's got social media. Right. But I don't know. I just don't know how you, like Rachel, were you already like established in your career when you met your partner? Yeah.

Oh, yeah. I had to think about... Not her daughter's father. Baby daddy. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

We're not together now. But when we met, I had already been on a TV show that kind of set everything off. And so... Yes. And you met on a movie. We met on a movie. And he had done Star Wars. So he was like, you know...

So he's an actor. Yes. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. So he was... And does that feel like more of a level playing field? Because it's like we're both in...

this weird business? I think there is, you know, and before him I had dated my co-star on the, on the O.C., who we kind of came up together with, you know? Right. So that was like, oh, we're both experiencing the same thing at the same time. Cool. Which I found very supportive and helpful. And then the relationship that followed was with my daughter's dad.

And we came into the movie and he was already very well known for Star Wars and, you know, I had my own success and I think I will say like dating I always say this and I'm like people like don't date you know an actor or whatever there's truth to that of course but but like also you know don't do it and it's like well no one really understands like when you're like I'm gonna be at work for 16 hours or like this or that and like no one can kind of wrap their head around it in the same way if they're in a completely different field altogether. So I did find that helpful. But then again, I'm like, it'd be really nice to date like a nice doctor. You know? Yeah. Her husband's a doctor. He's not nice, though. No, I'm just kidding.

No, but I think, you know, it's just really interesting because the more I've done it and I've had my fair share, it's always kind of worked better for the circumstance. But I don't know. You know. Yeah, I mean, does it ever feel to you, I guess if you're dating people who are kind of in the same world, that would make a lot of sense to me. You know, like if you went on a date with someone who's like, hey, what's up? I'm a carpenter, but I remember watching the OC when I was, you know what I mean? Like, I just feel like that kind of disparity might be challenging, at least for me to navigate. No, I know what you're saying. Well, you also get kind of guarded of like, what does this person want from me?

Sure. Like when someone has an equal level of success, I think it makes it easier to be like, oh, they're genuinely just interested. They don't need anything from me. I'm not like. But I've witnessed it with her where even people with high levels of success, it's been very clear to me, oh, they had a crush on her before. you know like there was there was some sort of something that they're fulfilling by getting this date right right interesting yeah yeah you know I mean again well because also they probably think they know you in a way that they don't because they know a character I mean I'm more naive

on the street do that right oh yeah well I don't know I think I'm more naive because I don't even think of it like I don't think of oh they knew this or they think because they watch this or whatever. I don't know, but I'm a little. That's also your memory problem. Like, you forget that you even did anything, you know, but like, I've witnessed it. This episode of Broad Ideas is brought to you by Mabelene. For over a century, Mabelene has provided accessible makeup to give everyone the self-confidence to express themselves. As the number one makeup brand in the world, Mabelene has the platform and the power to make an impact from the inside out. That's why they've created Brave Together, an initiative designed to help those facing anxiety and depression

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I don't think of myself as an actor anymore. And I, I mean, it's very interesting because, like, I look back on that. that world? Yeah. You guys are both giggling. Wait, I want to know why. Because you have, you've been on gargantuous, like humongoid shows and very successful. And you're like, who?

Well, no, but it feels like somebody else. And I'm part of like, we're doing this prison rig podcast, I'm rewatching the show. Right. I don't. Do you not remember any of, like, when you watch it, you're like, oh my God, I totally forgot I ever did that. I don't recognize that. that girl. She's so young. She's so new in the business. She's like didn't have, well,

didn't start off having kids. I had a kid in the process of the show. But like, it's like watching another person. And I think about all those things that happened and the red carpets and the award shows and the blah blah, blah. And it feels like I find myself thinking things that people have said to me in the past. And I'm like, don't say that's actors. Do you mean? Like, and it's, it's just very odd that there are like these acts to your life. Your life. Yeah. I have a question about this because you're rewatching it, right?

Yeah. So I did a rewatch podcast of the OC. Okay. For me, I was 21 years old when I did that show. Yeah. Okay. I'm 42 now. Yep.

Am I 42? Yeah, I'm 42. I love that you look to her. Oh, yes, for everything. I'm like, this is, I need, I don't even know. And in watching it and watching myself that young and thinking about all my choices and my life and whatever, I went into a depression.

Like, at first I had a very hard time watching it just because it brought all that up. And I didn't even like, I mean, aside from like not remembering anything a lot from the show because of my memory, it was more like watching myself at 21, watching myself and my boyfriend at the time, you know, that we were together for a while. and like everything that was happening in my life at the time.

Like it just brought up so much. So much. It took like a big adjustment. How it has it been like, so it's like kind of the same thing, right? Like you're watching it and you're like, who is that person? Yeah. I mean, I think for me, I could not have done this until this year because the show I couldn't get beyond the parts that were toxic and painful. And so I couldn't have done this.

Paul Edelstein, the guy I'm doing the rewatch with, the podcast, he brought me the idea a few years ago. And I just sort of like hemmed and hawed and had excuses and whatever. And what I've found in the last few years as I've been writing and directing and like doing scripted podcasts and stuff and just moving into non-acting parts of our. storytelling kind of world. I'm realizing I walk through doors that are open because of prison break and because of Walking Dead. And so I'm now looking back on those shows with so much gratitude. And like, I'll walk onto a set and the actors that I'm directing will be so open-hearted And so, like, come on, let's do this. Because they know I've been right where you are.

I know how tired you are. I know that you're in the last half a mile of this marathon. I will not let you look like an asshole. And I'm so deeply grateful for that faith that they're putting in me because I also know what it's like for a new director to show up on set. And it'd be like, oh, God, what? You know, like, let's hear your ideas. Like, you know, I mean, it's like, we know the show, we know what's going on. Please stay out of our way.

Let's be an asshole to my crew. Let's go. And so I've developed this. I've always been grateful for my career because I feel like any day you get to say you're a working actor is a fucking miracle. But it's given me the sort of medicine to go back and be able to look at those early projects. despite, you know, like, look, this, the show was on in 2005, like, despite the rampant misogyny, despite all of the challenges, despite being, you know, on a show like that, the only woman around. I was always jealous of your part on that. I was just going to say it.

It's true. I was always like, that could be me. You were like, you were like the girl that I was like, I could like that. I want to do that. There were two edges to that sort. Yeah. There were definitely two edges to that sort. I mean, like, you know, I've had an actor on that show spit in my face. And I was like, holy shit. And like, we will get there on the podcast. We will talk about it someday. But there were, there were things. Like, I would go home son nights and have to spend an hour talking my husband out of going to hospitalize somebody. And it was just, and some of the guys were great. And some of them were totally gentlemen. But when you go from zero to 60, from nobody knows who I am to I'm on the carpet of a work. words shows. What's that thing they say that like any fool can handle adversity you want to test a man's medal give him success? Like it was and again so much of it was also great and made lifelong friends

and all the things. But I wasn't ready to look at it, Rachel, for exactly that reason, because I didn't want it to send me into a spiral of like what did I let them do to me? What did I let them say to me? What did I put up with? What did I not report? What did I? All of that. Well, that's painful. But you had to process it before being, like, otherwise it's like a spiritual bypass, right?

If you're like, okay, just go to the gratitude. All these doors open. It doesn't work unless you move through the pain first and look at that and process it and heal it. And then you get to extract the gratitude and continue on your way. But it sounds like you did the health. healthy version of that. Well, and what's interesting is now kind of encountering it, what I see is like, oh, shit, this was really fun.

Like some of this stuff was really great. And some of it was, you know, a little bit what you're talking about with the OC is that everybody at the same time, there wasn't like a famous person in the cast who was like old hat. I mean, yes, Stacey Kich. But like, Stacey Kich also could have cared. does not care about fame one little bit. He's like, give me a play. Yeah. Leave me alone on stage. Yeah. I'm going to go live in Poland. You're like, great, sure. But we all did get to experience it at the same time. And that was really cool. And television at that time, you know, you were on TV then. Like the idea of serialized television was new. And it was a really cool thing to be a part of. So now going back, rewatching it, there is fun. But then there's also, you know, like we did an episode with Jessel and Gilsig. And she and I talked about, like, it was 45 minutes of like, woman in Hollywood, here's what's different, here's what's not different. Interesting stuff. And I'm like, God, how did I, you know, we never had a scene together, right? Like, I didn't have scenes with women. With women. Oh, my God. I was just like, fuck, what a missed opportunity. Like, you know, I'm now looking to cast Jesselin in everything that I direct. Because I'm like, I have to get on a set with you and like, get some real work done.

Right. I just love that you're directing, too. And that Rachel and I talk about this so much. We're like, how can we create? How can we have a voice? How can we champion women? How can we be storytellers in everything we're doing? It's not limited to the permission of other people anymore, which I think is brilliant.

And like the fact that you've gotten to be on such incredible shows, at least for us, is the audience. And then learning from that and being like, well, what's next? What's more that you have to offer, right? Well, you know, I mean, first of all, I think part of what's great about the podcast and even social media revolution of it all is that it does allow us to have our own voices. And for all of the challenges of social media and for all of the, you know, vast proliferation of podcasts, for women to be able to speak to other women about things that interest us is a huge revolution. I mean, most of the women that I know that I grew up with that are my close friends right now are all talking about perimenopause. And 100% of our information is coming from podcasts by women who are a little older than we are.

Hey, no one fucking talked about this. No one did anything. here's how to save yourself ladies. And we're just texting each other these like, have you heard about this one, this doctor and this blah, blah, blah. And it's alleviating the stress and pain and suffering that the generation ahead of us had.

And so I think what you guys are doing, like, I mean, it's kind of revolutionary. We were never given this kind of a plan. Right. Yeah, and I love it. That's very true. And also when you said that, what just struck me is like,

which makes me want to celebrate is what I hear in that is there's no more gatekeeping. It's not like, oh, I have this thing that I'm holding on to because of fear of, you know, it's like everybody is so much more collaborative and especially when you throw, and not to discount men

because we love men, but when you throw women in and watch them start to share their resources and their information and it's kind of a new thing. It is. But yeah, and a lot of it is what we do on our podcast is like always trying to break through, like talk about the things.

And, you know, just like you're saying, if you're hearing about perimenopause on like podcast, it's like, yeah, well, we should be talking about absolutely everything and nothing should be taboo, especially this day and age, you know, where there's just like, I think, and especially after coming out of a pandemic and like all of these things and everyone feeling so,

isolated and so alone and then just being able to just be so free with anything you want to hear or talk about, even to a fault sometimes as I've learned, but. Have you gotten into trouble for things you've said on that? I mean, yes. And like, granted, whatever. It's usually like sex-related. And I'm just like, come on. I grew up in a very, my mother, I grew up in a very, like, loving, open household where, like, you know, nothing was taboo. So I speak freely. Great.

And now that I have a mic in front of me, do you want to be? Sometimes. I mean, people have taken jobs away. What? Yeah. Yeah. I will say it again. Yes.

Yeah. Because of things you've said about sex. Yeah. Well, I used a specific word. And like, you know when you think you're just talking to friends? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we were just talking about like sex positions. And I said like...

It was a joke. Yeah, I was like being funny. And I'm like, I like to be manhandled, you know, or something. But I said manhandled, okay? And so they took that word. Oh, Jesus. And they were like, oh, that's not okay. You know, but the best is like the response, even from like her 80-year-old mother being like, who doesn't like to be manhandled.

Yeah. Yeah, that's not okay police are a tricky thing. Yeah. Right. Right. Because actually from the beginning with the sort of the internet and the people who, choose to put opinions on it. I feel like it's the difficult thing is that people who, like, I don't know anyone personally who like leaves reviews or who does. Like most people I know

what their opinions are private or we share them in conversation. And so I think what's tricky is there are, there's a specific subset of people who are going to go on Twitter or who are going to go on forums or who or whatever and sound off in a specific way. And that's great. I'm all for the free speech of it. But I think the mistake can be in then thinking that they're speaking for the majority because it's like, no, no, the majority of people are busy. And I've never left a Yelp review. I have never, I've enjoyed restaurants and told friends of mine or like, you know, gotten like a worm in the salad and been like, all right, so don't go there. That's a bad idea. But I'm not someone to be like, this is my experience.

And I want you to do what I do. That's not. And so I think there could be something, the what you can't say police sometimes sounds so loud. Then you get into your own life and everyone that you actually know who's a real human. He's like, I don't give a fuck. It's fine. Say what you want to me. You're safe.

Let's talk about it. Right. Yeah. I don't have to agree with you. Just. You know, which is totally fine. Yeah. It's just like the freedom to talk about. Yes. I agree with you 1,000%. It's like it's just the same as like the news. It's like my mama watched so much news and be like, everything's horrible out there. And I'm like, but when you really

go outside and interact with the world, right, on a daily basis, in my experience, people are pretty, pretty kind, you know? Like yes, at large, there's huge. problems and we we understand that but it's like so black and white where if you go outside right now and you go to the store or you go to you know down the street people are generally pretty nice and in complex ways my husband told me an interesting story he was just back east and he ran into an old friend of his who was raised in a very very small town um in i believe it was vermont and she's got a uh I don't remember. One parent who's white and one parent who's Asian

and the parent who's white is the one who's from the small town. She has since moved to this small town with her kids and she's like, the racism, you guys. It's ridiculous. Wow. But when the power is out and I had two little kids and it was just me, those same people left me cords of chopped wood to make sure that we had enough heat.

And she's like, so it's complicated. because on the one hand, I'm furious at language that's coming out of people's mouths that they don't even maybe know. Do you know what I mean? Like there was a whole generation of people who used to say Oriental. And you're like, no, no, no, no, no. That's off the table. We've learned that. Yeah. But the memo doesn't go out to everybody on the same day. So sometimes you got to let people know and whatever.

And she's like, there's language that's coming our way that I don't like. There's attitudes coming away I don't like. But in this small community, understanding that in the winter when the power is out, people have needs. They don't call and ask. They just show up. They dump the wood. They make sure that we're okay. Food shows up. You know, like, it's complicated our relationship to each other. Sometimes we are both kind and unkind at the same time. And that's, that's more than you can put in a sound bite. Yeah. That is more than you can put in a sound bite. Absolutely. That's so true. I know you were about to say two things. Two things can exist at once.

She says that every day. I do. I do. Because I feel like... Are you a Jebanii? No, I'm a Libra. So I'm like... Okay. Okay, there. Yeah, it's true. I think we should ask a few questions to lighten it before we let you go. And I also, I realized, like, I was supposed to, like, talk about a podcast and I totally forgot. But you did. I'm doing a podcast. Go listen to it. You talked about it.

We've talked about so many things that, like, are so deeply important in life. And I just am grateful to you guys for this. Oh, we're grateful to you. This is good for my, I love it. Good for my sisterhood heart. It's good for the soul. Okay, which are they in the top? So what are these questions?

We don't know. We're putting random. Oh, great. You pick random. Okay. Just to, we'll just, you know, end on a light note. All righty. If you had to get hypnotized for one thing, what would it be?

For what, like, to fix the problem? Sure. Who knows? I don't know. It's up to you. If I had to get hypnotized, it might be to stop the voice in my head. It might be to quiet the intermodal dog. Yes, we love that. A zombie apocalypse is coming. Which three famous people do you want on your team? Are you talking about the people I've already been through the zombie apocalypse with? No, no, no. This is a real one. I've definitely been through the zombie apocalypse. This is a real one. The only reason we say famous people is because then everyone will know who they are. No who they are. Yeah, yeah. I mean, John Bernthal, we did go through the original apocalypse together. They're right. And I feel like he's relatively well prepared for that one.

I would like Merrill Streep because in the apocalypse at night, when we boarded ourselves up, we're going to want a storyteller who can tell us amazing stories. And I feel like he's got all the incredible stories. Yes. I don't know why this just popped into me. my head, but Terry Cruz, I feel like Terry Cruz would slaughter the zombie apocalypse. I feel like he'd be great. I don't know why. I've only met him like once. He was really nice. I'm not good at you head for a reason. I'm not good at question. No, we call that an intuitive hit. Yes. Sorry, Terry. If you could live in a movie, which would it be? Oh, maybe like water for chocolate.

I also love that. It's such a good movie. It's so long. Yeah, this wonderful little village full of chocolate and boats and Johnny Depp before he got weird. Yeah, love Johnny Depp before he got weird. Oh, my God. What's the first thing you thought about this morning? Breakfast.

Always good. Your favorite junk food? Hula hoops. What are you? You know those British? Hoops, they're like the little British, they're like chips that you, but they're like, they're like, rings? They're circles and you like put them on your fingers and you eat them off your fingers. I haven't had them in like 20 years. Oh my God. And that just takes a deep dive into my subconscious. No, we're really getting to know you.

This is the whole thing. Yeah. Boal hoops. You can't even get them in North America. I was like, yeah, I don't know what Hulu loops are. I'm not familiar. Okay. What is your biggest phobia? Yeah. This seems to sound so weird. I have this lifelong fear that I will die homeless and addicted and alone on the streets. Oh, no. So I don't know if that's a phobia, but that's, I don't know why. I, my whole life, that's my fear. We've been avoiding that. That's what you've been avoiding all life. Yeah. Working on staying away from that one. Yeah. What's the most? I don't know if I should say strangest or memorable or funniest fan encounter you've ever had, if you can think of one.

Oh, when I was in eighth grade, I did Cinderella. And I played Cinderella. And after the show, we did a performance for preschool. And after the show, this little girl comes up to me and she tugs on my little white glove. And I said, yeah. And she goes, you look different in the movie. And I was like, you're the best. Sweetheart, you are the best.

It's so cute. You never topped it. No, you haven't topped that yet. You can't top that yet. It's amazing. No way. It's amazing. If aliens landed on Earth, who would you recommend they talk to?

My husband. I feel like I support that. He's been waiting. Oh, he's been waiting. He's been waiting for them. And like somewhat believes that octopus, octopi. Yeah. Are already aliens.

already alien Well they look like it Well and I think Potentially no one has figured out What branch of evolution they came from Like they're not related to anything else So he's like well they must have dropped here from outer space So oh I want to do a deep dive on that

I'm like fully like I need to read about that So to speak Yeah I just found out I was an alien What? I told you The RH negative blood They're like we can't track it from here on Earth And I was like, I fucking knew it.

I knew it. If you're related to an octopus. Probably. Yeah, we got to figure this out. Oh, my God. What's the last thing you Googled? I have no idea. The last thing I googled.

She's like, our octopus aliens. I don't know. Should I check my search history? Yeah, you do it. Oh, sorry. Late night with Seth Myers. I wake up and I watch a closer look every morning to see if the world is still standing. I can't take news anymore because it's just too, we're all going to die, we're all going to die.

Everybody's screaming each other. So I wake up in the morning and I watch the Stephen Colbert monologue and then I watch a closer look. And I'm like, if it's not in there, it's going to be okay. I might turn on the news a little bit just like public radio driving around, but I can't. sit down and watch. So, you know, Seth Myers reassured me that we've all survived. The eclipse. And that's kind of all I needed to know is funny. Yeah, we love Seth. Yep. That's smart. He's amazing. I love it. Great. What is your death row last meal? Oh my God. We ask that on our podcast. You do? Do you? Yes. We asked that too. Oh my God. Okay. That's a perfect.

Because we're a show about prison. Yeah, exactly. We have death row. So the death row last meal. I would, Hawaii plate lunch. So like Kalua Pig, Mac salad, teriyaki sauce, the Korean bean kimchi situation, and maybe like a couple of Calbee ribs. I want to go full. I grew up in Hawaii. Sorry. Oh, you did. Oh. So I want to go full Hawaii plate lunch.

Yeah, a little bit of poy on the side and then some hopoeia for dessert. Well, that's amazing. And the perfect thing to end on. Perfect thing to end on. Yeah. You guys are so fun. Well, you're awesome. And congratulations on your podcast. That's super awesome and exciting. And we're so happy you talk to us today. Yeah, so happy. You're just an absolute delight. I appreciate everything you guys are doing, really. I'm very grateful for it and I'm very grateful for the conversation. Us too. And I hope our paths crossed somewhere down the road of life in person.

Rob and I are both in florals today. We matched on purpose. You should have put this on. Rob loves putting my clothes. By the way, everybody, just before we started recording, Rob walked into the room with one of my jackets on. A big fluffy one. He just really likes to put on my clothes. Olivia is texting and not talking to us.

We just swap bodies. Yeah. Did you guys freaky Friday right now? What if that happened in real life to you? With who? Yeah, it depends on me. Let's pick someone. That would be a fun, like, prank.

How? Explain this to me. Explain this to me. Try to trick someone that has happened that, like, you guys switched. Yeah, like, and not say it. You gaslight them so hard. Yeah, like, if Rob came and all of a sudden, I was acting like you and you were acting like me, but we don't say anything and do it for the whole day.

And you're like, so Rob, did it? And I'm like, Rob, where's my macha? Rob, where's my macha? That would be the best. That would be the best prank. Oh, my God. Rachel and I, no joke, experience a glitch in the Matrix. What?

Do you remember when we were at the airport and we looked out and there was no... Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I thought about this the other day and it meant to bring it up to you again. Yeah. It was the weirdest thing. You're about to tell the sandwich story again? Let's tell it.

Let's tell it. Salami. Hey. People loved that story. People do they. People did. I know. People wrote in and were cats.

People sent pictures of their turkey and salami sandwiches. Yeah. This is a thing. It's food. Only food. No. We're at the airport and they look out the, no, there was the buzz flying. Oh.

I thought you're like, no. This one's going to be good. Hold on. We were at the airport. And I look out of the window and I'm like, Olivia. We are at the, you look out the, it's surrounded by water. None of it is moving. At all.

At all. Okay? It looks like a painting. It looks like a painting. Yeah. Like it was concrete. But it wasn't concrete. It was for sure water.

And there were birds. Like there were like, land. Like, the water did not move. No. And she, she looks at me. And she, she looked at me. She goes, are you seeing what I'm seeing? She didn't explain it at all.

She just is looking out the window and goes, are you seeing what I'm seeing? And I look and I'm like, what the fuck? I thought it was just me and I was like tired. And I'm like, it was one of the scariest feelings. It was. Because we're like looking around. Like, is anybody else seeing this? Are you going to look it up for us?

You're like specifically looking at like, like, body of water at the Oakland airport. No, he's going to say what would make water stand still? It was complete. There wasn't. You're just guessing what I might be. It was not a ripple. There was not a ripple. But it looked like there were ripples.

Like it wasn't flat either. No, it wasn't flat. There were ripples. There were ripples. They were not moving. Like, it looked like how you draw an ocean or something with waves. Like you saw that pattern in the water. But the water wasn't moving.

No. It wasn't moving. Thank God, I have a witness. It was one of those moments where you're like, am I in the movie? Am I okay? Is this the part where the thing is going to come up from the thing? Yeah, are we all going to get swallowed and the world is over. Yeah.

Is Godzilla coming up? Do you have answers for us? What are you Googling? Glitia in the Matrix? Yeah. It was the weirdest thing I've ever seen. Scary. Yeah.

Well, it is a bay. I get that. So, and? Well, like, lakes and stuff? There's still movements. I know. Sure, I understand that. It looked like concrete.

like it did not move. And it had to be weird enough that she says, do you see what I'm seeing? And I'm like, yeah. Fuck, yeah. Like, it's, I could have been like, what? The bird? We do have a lot of airport experience.

Yeah, I just feel like if the source was different, I might take it a little more serious. If it was just me, I understand your position. She saw it too. It was real. Okay. It was real. I almost wanted to ask the people in line behind that.

Me too. So bad. Do you see what we're, Do you see what I see? You guys were still on mushrooms, though? Rob. Ooh, ooh, ooh. Oh, uh-oh.

Do you have a mushroom story? No, but I have an interesting story, quick, little tidbit that I found fascinating. So I was watching this Joe to spend the thing, and he was talking about if people that live in, like, the unexpected, like, that don't know what's going to come next. It's not like you have this goal and you're like, this is how it goes. here's the path, right? But people who live every day in the unexpected, like, who knows what's going to happen? I don't know how it's going to happen, like in that state of manifesting, right? They studied their brains, and it's the same as people on psilocybin.

And that, to me, is fire. Because you can do that to yourself and live, no, hold on. If you live every day in the unexpected, like, who knows? knows what's going to happen. Who knows what's going to unfold? Da-da-da-da, right? So I get on this trip and my mind is blown out of my head. I go to yoga and she goes, set an intention. If you don't have one, why don't you choose and play with expecting the unexpected? My favorite is that she just described it as fire.

You're not with Elliot too much. It's actually my brother. But that's interesting. Don't you find that interesting that their brain is the same as someone on psilocybin? I just want to keep hearing you. Silocybin. Is it a mushroom? Doesn't interest you at all? I mean.

I zoned out a little bit when you were talking about it. What? I zoned out a little bit when you were talking about it. You zoned out? You don't want to be your brain to be naturally on psilocybin? No, not really. What? Why?

I don't want my brain to be having like a mushroom trip? Naturally? Yeah, no, that sounds not fun. I'd rather live in reality. I always feel like I'm on drugs. That checks out. I can't believe you want to live in reality. I'm like the most sober person, pretty much.

Except for the two people in the room that are actually sober. Right. Well, you know what I mean. Someone who's not sober is what I mean. Are you sober right now? I don't know. I always feel like I like. Maybe it's because you live in the state of the unexpected.

But she's the most sober person ever. No, you like to know. You like to follow the knowing. I want to know. Oh, the bouncing ball. Yeah. Can you guys wink? I like to do this out.

Yeah. Natalie can't wink. She can't wake? Really? Mm-hmm. Curly your tongue? Yeah. Some people can't. Yeah, it's a genetic thing.

I can't do the flower tongue. You whistle? I used to whistle better before braces. She can't whistle or wink. She can't do either? Mm-mm. Huh. And the boys?

I try telling her that she can learn how to wink, and then she gets mad when I try to get her. What does she tries? She does both eyes. That's cute. I find it hard to believe that you can't wink, though. Do you think she's faking your attention? I don't know.

No, I don't think she's faking it, but... You're like, I just don't believe her. I don't know. I don't think she's trying hard enough to wink. And you want to live in reality? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Do you?

No. Of course not. No. What's to live in reality? I have a question. Oh. Uh-oh. The theory is all the realities that could exist are happening at the same time, right, in the quantum field.

So, like, that would mean there's a version of you based on your choices that is living that out right now. What? What's the question? Do you buy into that? So, like, say, for instance, for me, there's a version that never got sober. And they're in the quantum field. Like, somewhere out there. that part of you is living, like there's another world.

It's also infinite because it's every single choice that you made. Every choice. Yeah. It goes in different directions. It goes in different directions. And we're only experiencing this one based on the choices we made. So we're just experiencing this choice. But there's a version of me and you in all those other choices being lived out at the same time.

But we can only experience this one based on this choice. Where? Yeah, where is it happening? I don't know. I don't know where it's happening. I don't have all the information. answers. You don't buy into it at all? I understand the theory. I don't think that that's what's happening. I understand the theory. I always think about like if you made one separate choice, like where.

Yeah, but where does that energy go? It goes nowhere because you pick the other thing. Or do you think like it'll live out in like your next life or something? I mean, that's like harder to me to say is a thing than like religion. like God. Oh, you think that's harder? Yeah, you're saying like infinite realities versus just like... I have a harder time getting behind that there's other realities. Yeah, there's a being, like, it's much more complicated at least than religion.

I mean, and I guess it's an idea that hasn't been around as long either. Like, God and religion has been around for a very long time. Correct, but if you think about what we're doing to AI, right? We're implementing it with all the information. simulations and... Like, that is almost like the same theory as like a god. We're implementing all of our information into these creations, right? And then if we go wherever we go and they're left on this earth to do what they do...

But there's consciousness and stuff happening within that. That's what I'm saying. So to me, that's not that hard to place God into that because you're like, oh, that's what we're doing. Yeah, to me, like, computer. computers were just invented in like the 80s. Right. So that would then be me saying that I believe that time started millions of years.

Like I believe in evolution and biology and how old the Earth is. Like, then you think simulations only happened at the very tip of all of this? No, I think our brain is a computer. What? Yeah. And that everything that we have a heart.

We have the hard wiring, the installation, all of the things. It's just made of... But everything we know of the past then is just like made up story? No, because that all existed. But when we awoke to consciousness is when we started tracking it. We couldn't track it before it existed, right? Yeah, but you're saying this happened in a computer. Our brains are fucking computers.

They're fucking computers. But we just invented computers. This is what I'm saying. We just caught on to it then. Out of like hundreds of millions of years of the universe existing, we are just catching on now. To the computer aspect. Yeah, because that's how it's moved forward. We keep moving forward in civilization.

We keep gaining more consciousness. Do we ever get to the pinnacle, like the point? and then there's no further to go? I don't know what happens after, but I think that we are definitely AI in a human form. I'm not on mushrooms right now. I swear.

It is that kind of conversation. Does that change how much you value things that happen within the world then? No. No, because I do think spiritually we are put here for a reason. There was something that we came here to. to learn. Yeah, computer program. Valuable.

Possibly. Yeah. I don't think it's mechanical. Yeah, well, that's where I choose the disconnect from it, because I think, if I start to buy into that, it feels... Mechanical? Yeah. It's not...

I don't mean it mechanical for me and not enough meaning behind existence if that's the case, that it's just like, we're running these simulations to see what happens when global warming happens and how humans react to... running this one for this and this for that. Like to me, then we start to feel more like pawns than actually living and existing in life. I don't think it's a simulation like that, like it's being run to test us,

but I think that we did make an agreement to come here and choose to learn things with a live beating heart, with emotions, with all of those incredible things that we're here to experience. So I don't think it's a disconnect of like being, mechanical or simulated in any way.

But we're a computer. I also think this planet, this world is an algorithm. Just like social media is teaching us, right? We look and we go, oh, we want furniture. It starts feeding us furniture. Microcosms of people that build furniture, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, feeds us that, right? I think the same thing is true of life. It's an algorithm and your experience is based on what you're looking for.

and if you want a different experience, you have to change the algorithm by looking for something different. Yeah, I think the reason I have a hard time with that is it feels too convenient. Like if you existed 75 years ago, you would not be talking about computers or algorithms to understand the universe because they didn't exist.

Because the consciousness wasn't there yet. We're speeding up in consciousness. I know, but like your grandparents wouldn't have had the opportunity to understand that because computers didn't exist yet and algorithms weren't a thing. But they were living out a living algorithm. You're just saying they were using it as an example.

They were just sharing us that that's already been going on the whole time. If you're the kind of person that's always looking, oh, people are always out to get me, then you're always going to be looking for things that are out to get you. You're going to experience that. If you start changing what you're looking for and you start being like, people are always kind. I'm always looking for the kindness in others. I just think they're so kind and I'm always looking for it.

You're going to find it, right? Because you changed what you're looking for. Yeah, I also think, though, that that comes a little bit from a place of privilege to think that you just, like, I think there's people that have a tough fucking life. 100%. That, like, could be as positive as possible and bad shit. still happens to them, and it's not their fault because they weren't... I believe that, too. But then there's like Victor Frankel, where man searched for meaning, where you're in the

most insane circumstances, I'm not saying it, I'm not saying it's going to physically change your actual environment. It's going to change your experience of your environment, which is then going to change your life. So the circumstances could be exactly the same, but how two people experience them are completely different. So that was Rachel's bedtime story. Yeah.

Good night. I had someone honk at me yesterday that made me really annoyed. What happened? How do you control your road rage? All right. Well, tell me... Did they recognize you? No.

So I was trying to park on a side street. Uh-huh. And driving on the side street, there's a car in front of me that, like, pulls into a driveway. I keep driving. Yeah? And then there's a spot open on the right. so then I go to start parking in the right. That car that pulled in the driveway

speeds up behind me and starts honking at me because what I figured out is they were turning around so they could get to that spot. But it was like half a block down. How am I supposed to know that? I just turned on to that street. You're not even close to it. And then they just lay on the horn

and like block me as I'm trying to go into this parking spot. Oh, that's aggressive. Yeah. I was like, what is happening? Yeah, she gets it. She feels me on that. I felt that. That is aggressive.

Yeah, I was like, what the hell just happened? He feels so validating. Yeah, he's annoyed. Well, I was by myself in the car and have this, like, insane person walking at me. Just laid on the horn. Yeah. What did you do? I just drove, I was like, all right, take the spot, I don't care.

Did you roll down the window and, like, talk to them? No. You just drove off? Yeah, I don't need to deal with this. You didn't say that. I don't need to deal with this. No, drove away and found another spot. Oh.

Hmm, some people like to, like, get into it. Yeah. What? Someone we noticed just went through that. So our friend's boyfriend parked his car. people were like acting really weird and so what do you mean people were acting there was like a couple people there where he parked car somewhere and these people were like like three guys were like acting weird

and he was like hey man like is everything okay like are you guys all right or whatever and then I guess it got like they were weird so he got confrontational with them left went and did his thing came back they had totally totaled his car. Toteled it. Slashed all the tires, broke the windows, like. But what do you mean he got confrontational with them? Like, go somewhere else, guy.

Like, it was like flexing on them. Like, trying to scare them away or something because they were acting shady. And so he was, like, trying to, you know. And they assert authority. Uh-huh. And he came back and the car was just annihilated. Yeah. Really?

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. But that's why you don't do that. You do not do that. You don't do that. This isn't a friend that this happened to. That's why I just drove away.

This is not a friend. I'm not going to deal with this. Whoever this person is, clearly, is not thinking logical. Correct. That's the way to do it. That's crazy. But you don't do that. No, you don't do that.

You let people be crazy and you move on. I thought I was going to see these people. I didn't see what they looked like, but I was going to mark. and it happened and they were parking near Maru and then I was like I'm gonna like

then everyone that was coming after me I was like I wonder if this was the I wonder if these are the honkers people in the car he's like the caper the hunker do you ever do that to people hunk?

No no hunk? Yeah only if they're like only if it's absolutely necessary or they're yeah I am definitely like the last to honk you know

it's like only Yeah, I don't even like to hang that much if someone's not going at a light. No, I don't. I'll give them a second. Or if I do, it's like a little beep. It's a little tap. Beep, beep. No, but I used to have like boyfriends if I was driving, they'd be like,

go, honk your warn, like so aggressive. And it's like, let me drive. That's how it is when I drive with you. I will say if someone honks at me, it makes me want to, like. Fight. I'm at it. No, if I'm at a green light and someone honks. I'm just going to go slower.

I'll just like stop. That's wrong in a nutshell, by the way. Can I tell you guys a secret? Yeah. So everybody that knows me really well doesn't like it when I drive. Nope. Do not. I don't let her drive.

Like the people closest to me don't let me drive. Is it because of rage? The exact opposite. I drive like an actual grandmother. Like I'm very slow and like I'm just like go ahead. You let every car in. Every car in. It takes me forever, whatever.

recently I do have some other close friends that it's like never really been put in that position and I didn't tell them the truth about me that you probably don't want to drive with me and so I drove them Nicole yeah and Nadine oh they don't know they don't know they don't know they don't know they don't know they know I think they know but they and I didn't tell them so as I'm driving and doing all these things like, oh, guarding them and like not going at the right time and like all this. In my head, I'm like, they're thinking it. I'm not going to say it. I'm not going to tell them. Was it never addressed? It was never addressed. I can see this for you. I never let her drive. Nobody does. It's the worst. But it was just funny because I didn't

feel like. Leah is a daredevil. So are you. No, I'm more... Not as much as Leah's... I'm more cautious. I'm not... You're like a seven and she's a nine? I'm... No, I am definitely more cautious.

Like, I'm responsible. Like, you trust me driving. Yeah, but sometimes you go a little fast for me and you drive a little aggressive. For such a small person. You've already got a big car. Yeah, but even if I was in a big car, I'd be like... Have I told you her...

Have we ever told you her... Wave Runner story? Her ski-doo story? Her jet ski story? We're in Costa Rica. And we're all going out, and the waves are really big, okay? And they're all on the beach, and we have to, like, take them past the break to go. And the guys who are giving us the wave runners are like, okay, just like when you get to the wave, just gun it a little so you can, like, make it over and go, right?

So we all do it. I have Leah and Breyer on mine. We make it no problem. Everyone else. We're all out there. Wait, you, Leah and Breyer on one? On one. It was big, and Breyer was in front and Leo was behind.

Okay. Why do you ask like that? There's a lot of people. She was four at the time. She was little. Right now, three to a wave runner would be a lot. Yeah, she was a little kid. Okay.

This is an explanation I needed. You're welcome. Thanks. So then Olivia's the last one to go, other than my brother, who's on the beach, just helping the guy and helping everybody get out. Okay. My brother on the beach.

We're all out there waiting for Olivia. Like a ways out. We're like, okay. And they tell her, you know, just going to, when you get to the. wave so you can make it past it. And we're all out in the ocean.

I know. We're at X games. Like, fucking just straight up. And smack down to the thing. And we see my brother in the deer and she's like, oh, shit. Like, oh. Did you fall off? No, she stuck the landing.

And you just kept going? No. Well, hold on. She sticks the landing. We're all out there. I remember. the feeling. And then we see her.

She's going to try to catch up to us. And she's like, like granny on the thing. Yeah, and she got so scared. So she comes out at like two miles an hour. Like, and I'm like,

and there's no more waves at this point. No more waves. That's waves all right. I was terrified. Oh my gosh. It was so shocking. It's the most epic visual like you've ever seen.

In your life. John said the guy renting the things high-fived him. It's our favorite story. I've seen something on Instagram, people filming, like, someone who did that. Like, and he said it's fucking Olivia and my brother. We'd die. It was. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. You would have appreciated it. We still all talk about it. Oh. I want to go back. Guys, that felt good. Cathartic. So cathartic.

Yeah. Fucking like X games over here. Oh, geez. But thinking about that, I'm like, Pryor was four. That is so balsy. She is a little adventure seeker. But it's adventurous of you, too,

because, like, even thinking about it, be like, oh, I don't know. Really? Well, that's, you also won't go to the movie theaters. She's always goes to movies. No, but she does. She's very fear-based in her mind. I'm always, like,

She does do that. Check your exits and... Yeah, yeah. You know, she's definitely wearing your... Yeah. No, we went out and she was great. We had life vests on. I just mean her doing that and you wouldn't do that really doesn't hold a ton of weight.

I understand. I was just thinking of Shepard. Well, you got very combative with... What? I'm very much combative. You got very combative about it when I suggested. No, I didn't. I said I go to the movies.

I do go to the movies. I don't. I just... went through the movies. Friars never been to a movie. That's kind of fucked on. It's weird. Yeah, that is.

It's not on purpose. It's just, why don't you take her to a movie? We can go to a movie. She also doesn't love movies. But she doesn't, like, know what it's going to be because they scare her. But what about, like, Kung Fu Panda 3? Four. We're going to see.

We're going to watch that at her school for spring movie night. It's not a theater. Yeah. I know. It's a thing. She's missing out. I agree. I want to take her.

I don't love going to the movies. I know. I don't love going to the movies, so it's not, like, first on my... I don't understand how you don't love the movies. I know, and she just got her... Oh. Yeah, I don't love going to them. I don't know why.

I just don't... I'd rather be a home. You don't like going out in public anywhere. I don't like me home. I get... I understand why you... But you don't like the popcorn and the candy. I love the popcorn and the candy.

That doesn't motivate you to... She doesn't like leaving the house. You know, I can... Do you think you're a little agoraphobic? I wouldn't call myself agoraphobic. I have no problem going places at all. You don't. You're just not motivated.

I'm not motivated to watch a movie, even at my house. Like, to watch a movie, I need someone to be like, we're watching a movie. Do you know what I mean? To manhandle the situation. Yes. I do. I need someone to, like, motivate it. Then I'll watch movies.

I'm telling you. But most, what percentage of the time you leave the house is for, Briar. Dutie's surrounding Breyer. I mean, mostly. Landy-5. But I know, I do errands all the time. I love an errand. Yeah, but that's also Breyer. Not always.

No, but you're very motivated. We're not going to count errands. We're not going to count errands. Yes, I leave the house for Breyer. Correct. Yes. She will rally. She will camp in a zoo. I did camp in a zoo. But I think you might be more, you might be agorphobic if you didn't have Breyer as the reason to get you out of the house.

No. I'm not agoraphobic. That's not the right word for me because I leave the house. I think my mom might be a little agoraphobic. I could see your mom being a little agoraphobic. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not that.

I can see you getting there. No, Rob, I'm not that extreme. Oh, Jesus. I did. I camp at the safari park with 200 other Girl Scouts. Yeah, with Breyer. That's fun. I'm saying, yeah, you were down.

Anything is my kid. I will go anywhere. I agree with that. I'm just saying you remove that. I think your motivation to leave the house ever goes way, wait, wait, wait, wait, down. Yes. Correct. Yeah, if it doesn't have to do with briar, it goes down significantly. Yeah, it's a 95% chance no. Yeah. Yeah. If it's unrelated. Yep. Very true. There's very few things that will get me out of the house willingly. Yeah, chain. Fuck it. Oh, yeah. You've been to two.

That's true. You have been to two. Jesus Christ. He had a blast the second one. Oh, God. You guys really did, didn't you? It was an exclaims. Yeah, but it either has to be briar. Whatever tail you're chasing or briar. I don't chase tails. Frontal tails. Ew.

What if that's the new term? Can you keep that in? You find a way to say it. Find a new way to say it. Please, God. Rob just coined frontal tails. That is horrifying. Yeah.

It's gross That makes me sick to my stomach They call it chasing tail when a man chases a woman Yeah And when a woman's chasing a man It's a frontal tail It's making my tummy hurt That's just not a nice expression

You know what's not a nice expression At all is chasing tail No it's not great either It's really sure it's not appropriate Do you use it often? My tail I don't. Your frontal tail.

Ew. That's so gross. You're wagging your teeth. So gross. Well, that was a doozy. Okay, thanks for listening, everybody. That was a hit gum podcast.