Broad Ideas with Rachel Bilson & Olivia Allen - Shiri Appleby on Unreal, Roswell, and Fight to be a Female Director

Episode Date: March 18, 2024

Shiri Appleby [Roswell, Unreal, Chicago Fire, Girls] talks with Rachel and Olivia about the pros of being married to a successful chef, her time on Roswell, and the big lack of female directors on set. They also discuss how to navigate mean kids, journaling, and how to open yourself up to receive love.Broad Ideas is supported by Honeylove. Get 20% off by going to honeylove.com/ideas.Broad Ideas is supported by Clarins. Go to clarins.com/ideas and get Multi-Active Day & Night Cream for 10% off, a free welcome gift, plus free shipping on your first order.Broad Ideas is by Blissy. Try now risk-free for 60 nights, at blissy.com/rachel, and use code RACHEL to get an additional 30% off.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hax is back for its fifth and final season, and so is The Hacks podcast. Join the Hacks creators and showrunners, Lucia and Yellow, Paul W. Downs, and Jen Statsky as they unpack the Emmy-winning comedy series. On each episode, hear stories from the set, what goes on in the writer's room, and how these beloved characters close out their final season. Watch Hax streaming exclusively on HBO Max and listen to The Hacks podcast on HBO Max, or, wherever you get your podcasts. Hi. One for three. I love you.

Did you know that that one for three was, I love you? Do you know, what do you know about? He doesn't know that because he doesn't know about pager codes. Oh my God, let's talk about it after. Let's first introduce Shiri Appleby, who is here with us today. She knows about pager codes. She knows about pager codes. Another L.A. born and raised, local.

Yeah. Her husband is John, John and Vinnie's. Rob is super excited because it's the best food. And, you know, from Roswell, Unreal, I mean, so many things. But she joins us today, so let's invite Sherry. Sometimes when inside of Rachel's little brain, all these thoughts are swirling, round and round inside. To join us on this journey as we take a little ride.

We'll talk about dogs and kids and things. We'll talk about chicks and tampons. Strings we'll talk about boys that are need. Because people die. Hi. Hi. We're so happy you're here. Thanks for helping me.

I'm really excited to be here. For coming. We've been in the same orbit, I feel like, forever. But you guys actually know each other. Yeah, we share a mutual bestie. We do. We were in her wedding. That's right.

Same wedding. That's right. We had so much fun. Yeah. We have a mutual bestie, Wells Butler, who's just the greatest. I know Wells, too. Yeah, the best. I laughed so much with her.

Me too. Yeah. Such a nice friendship. That was when her wedding was a long time ago. Dude. That was a messy wedding for me. What do you meet? Oh, you were still drinking?

Yeah. Oh, interesting. Yeah. I think like me and Veronique got in a fight that night. Nice. It was like a thing. Oh, interesting. Yeah, it was fun.

That never came. It never filtered its way all the way to me. I didn't experience that. No. No, no. I hope Wells didn't either. I think we go back even further. because I feel like you went to school with my first boyfriend.

Who's that? Ollie Goldstein. Sure, Ollie Goldstein. We went to middle school and high school together. Yeah. It's so funny. Somebody mentioned him the other day and I like tried to look him up on Instagram. He's there.

Oh, is he? Yeah. That's so funny. Oh, my God. Yeah. Later tell me what's going on with him. Yeah, I don't know. Oh, interesting.

Well, Ollie Goldstein if you're out there. We want to know. We want to know. We want to know how you're doing it. Yeah, we would tell us his high school together. other. Yeah, because you're... You're also a local like us, like grew up here. I grew up in L.A. The best. Were you born and raised here? Yep. I grew up in the Valley. Same. Yep. I loved the valley. I loved living in L.A. I still really much, very much love living in L.A.

Yeah, which you don't, I feel like you don't hear often. People loving living in L.A. or people being from L.A.? Well, both. Both. Well, I think being, I could never, I always think about the people that came to move here. Right. That I can't really wrap my head around. Like, that seems like, such a big, like, leap. Even people that left where their hometown is, because I've never left, that seems like radical to me. Right. And I like going to the beach.

Yeah. So, L.A. has a beach. So I like that, and I like having a city lifestyle. So it kind of is checking a lot of boxes. Do you actually go to the beach? We go to the beach, like, every weekend. You do? Oh, my God, my husband would be so happy if he had to be.

Like, my husband was like very, like, digging his heels into the ground. And I was just like, this has been my lifelong dream. And like, I'm in the midst of my life. My life is not going to slow down. So we're just doing it. And we just do it. We just do it. We pack up the car.

We go. My son's learned to serve. No way. They have, like, friends that they have out at the beach on the weekends. And you're like just in nature. So that when you come back to the city on Monday, you're like, let's go to baseball. Let's go to karate.

Let's like, do all of it. of our activities because on the weekend we're just going to slow down. So at the, I need to know how this goes because literally that's my husband's dream. Every weekend, he's like, can we go to the beach? I'm like, every day. It's freezing. But it's not really that cold once you get out there and there's like pretty hikes and there's like, not like amazing restaurants, but not terrible restaurants.

Yeah, right. But just sitting on the beach and decompressing as a family and like bringing a kite or bringing a football and like walking. it's just, and like seeing like the kids learning the tides and like what's happening with like nature and are the males migrating and let's take a beachwalk and collect shells. Like that's really great time with no screens and the next thing you know it's two o'clock in the afternoon. Right. And the kids have been outside. I'm going to meet you there.

I'm going to meet you there. There you go. No, but like to actually do it, I'm just really in awe of it. Yeah. I think I'm the opposite. So like I'm like mountains, right? Sure. So, like yesterday we went on a hike and it's a waterfall hike and it's like...

Beautiful. Maybe it's even half a mile in. Definitely not more than a mile, but it's easy. Yeah. We do it all the time and then you're out there and you're like, oh, the kids are in nature. Yeah, they love it. We didn't go to the beach last week because my husband's out of town. I took the kids on a walk too out and like in the woods and you're like, I just need to get out of the traffic.

And L.A. has a lot of these hikes. It has a lot of that stuff. But you just have to like go to it. Like you have, it takes effort to find it. I loved Unreal. Oh, my God. I binged. That's nice.

Oh, me too. I did it time alone. I was like, I want to watch. I loved it. That was like my airplane download binge show. I was also like, I like watched The Bachelor franchise. Oh, you do? Well, I used to.

Yeah. I kind of, I've kind of fallen off. Yeah. So I was so excited when your show was coming. I was like, oh my God. And what a fun. It was so fun to me. Oh, my God.

It looked like it. It was so fun to me. I was like envious. So creative. Oh, yeah. That would be a fun show. It was a fun show to make. And it was fun because, like, the cameras could see each other.

So there was, like, no rules in terms of, like, what you're shooting. And you could have, like, three steady cams going at the same time. Like, a setty cams, like, a camera that guys are wearing. And so, like, you could shoot everything at one time because all the cameras could see each other. That's awful. And nothing was off limits. And we were just literally shooting, like, all night long, every night outside. And it was just, it was worse.

But it was just like steamy, and then every year the great thing, which Rachel you'll know, is like, if you do a lot of seasons of show with the same cast, sometimes you get kind of stale. But every year it was like all new actors. Right. And like all new relationships and all new dynamic. So it really felt fresh every season. Yeah. And the part was the, she was like nuts. And like she was so fun to play.

So I had really, and that's when they let me start directing. So then there was like even more to like just take on and get engaged. in. Yeah. Was that something you always wanted to do? Yeah, but when I started acting when I was three, I didn't see a woman. I know I said that, but it's true. My parents put me in Chobas and I was three years old.

I got it. But I didn't see a woman on set until the very last episode of Roswell. I made 65 episodes of that show. And then on the very last episode of Woman walked on set. And I was like, what? What's she doing? A woman could do this? Oh, wow.

I've been working since I was three. I've never seen a woman. A woman director. And I would go to editing during lunch on Roswell just because I was like really interested in the process. And it was 10 more years before I saw another woman. 10 years? 10 years. 10 years.

Oh, my God. Were you looking? And you were just like, there was only one. Like, was that an accident? And she also came on on the very last episode. So even if, you know, the whole gig on TV directing is like you want to get ass back. Right. Right?

But they brought her on for the last one. so there were no more episodes to come back to get asked back to do. Right. So I never saw her again. Wow. And then it was 10 more years. And then I was like, and then that woman had to have a man, a male director on set watching her. What?

Did it have to be a male? To make sure she didn't screw up. Wait, how many years ago was this? This was 14 years ago. And so then I started shadowing like crazy because then I was like, and then everywhere I went to try to go get a job. places that I had worked before, like, CW and ABC family, they were like, sorry, we can't hire you. Why?

Like, they were like, we won't be able to hire you. The best thing you can do is go get a TV show on the air and make it a hit. And then direct. And then you can direct. So I shadowed like crazy. I shadowed like 10 times and I took it so seriously. I was there every single day of prep, every day of shooting, every day of post, like 10 times. Yeah.

So by the time I did the pilot for Unreal, I was like, I'm literally here for a directing job. Yeah. This thing will be a hit. Good for you. And if on the pilot, I was like, I have to get an episode. And so when the second season, the show came out, it was like Peabody winning, everyone got nominated. I was like, I'm getting an episode. It took to the second season, though. Well, the first season in the show, I had to make the show a hit.

Okay. So your job was just to make a hit. Yeah. I have to make it a hit. And then I was like, I have to have an episode. So then I got one in the second one. I got one in the third one. And then the second season, they gave me two, including the series finale.

Oh, wow. Mm-hmm. So then I, like, had four, but it was sort of like having none because it's, you're directing on the show that you're starring in. Yeah, so you're split focus. So the Hollywood sort of looks at it like, that's nepotism. Oh, got it. They're just making you happy. Got it, got it.

Oh, wow. It's fun. It's fun. It's fun. It was just more like, I am going to do this. Mm-hmm. I'm going, because, like, I didn't choose to be an actress. You didn't choose that at three?

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if your kids choose anything. The only thing my three-year-olds were choosing was candy. Right. And TV. Exactly. And so, yeah, I was the thing I was choosing.

So I was just like, okay, if that's the obstacle, I have to figure out the, how do I, how do I beat this obstacle? Which I think is part of life. That's it. You can't get upset about it. It is what it is. We all have our obstacles we have to choose into. And like, good for you that you made a choice and actually made it happen. Now, which do you prefer?

I mean, they're both amazing. They're both really amazing. Like, directing, especially when you direct certain actors and certain scenes, you're like, oh, man, I wish I was doing that. Like, why am I not doing that? I should be in that scene. And sometimes on set, you, like, hear that they're casting apart. You're like, well, I'm free after this episode.

You know? But, like, I don't like going on the road for four or five months out of time and leaving my family on a TV show and you've signed a contract for six years. So that's, like, just not in the cards for me right now. Yeah. And I like to have a little bit more control. I had a really hard time with people touching me all day. Oh, like, that really became, like, annoying to me.

And, like, I want to get my own cup of tea. And I don't want you to, like, just try to keep me in a cage and, like, bring me things. Like, I want to be my own person sort of floating around. And I've been doing it for so long that I'm, like, I know how I want this to look. I know how I want this to feel. Like, I know how to create a vibe on this. set. I know how to make my day. Like, I want to be the person in charge as opposed to be like, man, I can't believe this person's going to keep us here for 15 hours and what are they shooting

and the tones off. And like, yeah, I want to do it. Yeah. Yeah. I will say like when I have worked with actor directors, right? Like, not, I mean, and there's obviously fantastic directors that are just directors. But like, there's like another understanding like, you know, the communication and just being on both sides of the camera, you're just able to. to kind of. Like, we're speaking another language. Right. Right. You and I are speaking another language. I'm like, hey, can you make it? Like, And, like, that makes no sense to any other human. But you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got that. And you're like, okay, turn the camera on and she got it.

Right. Rachel, give me another one. Just pick up the page. And, like, it's done and now we're moving on. Right. Right. Right. But it's like, if you're going to go over there and start talking about the technical,

I need an eight hat on the jib on the thing, I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about, but just like make it shoulder high and like make it look good. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? So it's like another language. I am loving it, though. I am like loving directing. I feel like I've kind of just started my whole life over.

Oh, wow. And I feel like I haven't even started my career yet. Oh, my God, that's amazing. Isn't that crazy? I feel like I haven't even started. Wow. So that's just your main focus. It's just directing right now.

Yeah. It's very hard to be an actress right now. Yeah. It's about to say. When is it? When is it not? But yeah, my whole focus right now is directing. Like, my hustle is like directing.

That's so cool. Yeah, so I got off Unreal and I was just like, I'm not, I'm kind of, I'm just going to put that to bed. Wow. Acting to bed in general? Pretty much. Unless somebody asks me, to do something or like I like making an audition tape just to still act. Right.

And like if I get the job great, but I'm not like, I'm not like calling my agent about that every day. I'm calling my agent every day about like what's going on. Did you submit me? You know, all that other stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

What about it is hard for you right now? What is, oh, to be an actress? I mean, I don't know because I'm not really fully in the hustle of it. But, I mean, as Rachel just said, like, it's never that. easy and they're very small boxes you're trying to put yourself in and like if there's not that many boxes casting that fit you like there's just not that much opportunity right and like I want to go to work every single day I want to work Monday through Friday I want to wrap a show on Friday I want to start a new show on Monday I want to make one movie a year for the next 20 years like I don't

want to stop working right and so if I'm looking for a tiny tiny window of like she needs to be five two brown hair kind of cute da da da like like where you're like where you're are those parts. Unless I'm writing them myself. Unless you're writing them. Right. It's very hard. And then, but you also touched on like not wanting to, like you said, pick up and go and leave your family. And it's really, you know. But maybe in 10 years when my kids are in college, I will want to do that. Right. Right. So then how do I keep myself in the game for the next 10 years so that when my kids are gone? I'm like, all right, put me on a show and let's go to Budapest and he's coming and we're going and six months and now I've got a statue. you and like, that's great.

But I can't do that. Yeah. I can't do that right now. No, I know. I know. So which, I'm just curious, because I know the feeling of always, like, whenever you see something that you know you're capable of doing. Yeah.

And someone else is doing it. So when you're directing and you see someone act and you're thinking, oh, I wish I was doing that. And then you're acting and you see someone direct and you're like, ooh, I wish I was doing that. Does that ever go away for you? Are you ever in the zone on one thing at a time? Most of the time when I'm directing, I'm not thinking I want to be in that scene.

I'm not. And the fun part is being like watching the performance and then giving the note and you're like, oh, man, they did it so much better than I would have done it. Right. Right? Oh, they're crushing that. That little thing made all the difference. I would say even maybe one job out of 10 jobs, I'm thinking, 10 full jobs,

like in a jobs a month. Yeah. where there's one scene in that whole entire experience that I'm like, I wish I was in that scene. It's like so rare. It's so miniscule compared to the, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm rarely like, I'm just like walking around. I'm like hustling, I'm moving and I'm doing it. I'm never thinking about when I'm acting.

I'm like, man, I would really like to be directing this. You feel that stronger. Yes. But then certain people you watch acting, you're like, man, that shit looks fun. That's good. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. Yeah, that happens a lot.

And I always am like, oh, directing would be so cool. But then, like, just like the technicality behind it. Yeah. And like that other, not the creative side, but the other side. I'm always so intimidated by. Sure. I was too. But you hire the right people.

Right? You have to know. You have to know. You have to know because you also have to know how you're walking on set and what they're looking at you at. Of course. You were or are an actress that is now walking on set and you better know exactly what you're doing. Right.

Because if not, they will run right over you. Right. So that's the shadowing, like crazy. Shadowing. What is a shot list? How do I build a shot list? What do I actually need? How can I give all the departments the exact things that I want day one to prep so they can do their best?

And I'm not going to change my mind. And if I do change my mind, do I give them enough to notice to change my mind? And I'm going to write a shot list before day one. So everybody on day one knows exactly what we're shooting. And that's the only way I'm going to finish my day on time and the crew is going to trust me. Right. And that's television, you know. Am I type A?

Because the shot list is what intimidates me. But you could do it. Like, once you learn it, you could do it. Somebody gave me great advice when I was, when I was shadowing to, was like, watch favorite movies or favorite TV shows. This all comes back to watching TV. And write down all their shots. Yeah.

And then you'll start, like, counting. Like, so now, like, when I do watch TV, I'm like, wide shot, wide shot. They had two singles from here from this, this. Oh, look at that. They didn't cover it at all. Oh, look at Oppenheimer was watching it last time. I'm like, lots of close-ups. living in lots of close-ups.

I mean, I didn't watch a whole movie. So, like, but do you know what I mean? Yeah. And so then once you start to put it all together, then you're like writing it down yourself. You're like, oh, wait, now I'm looking at a scene. I could start to break this down. Yeah. That joke, that joke needs a two shot.

Two-shot. Right. Well, yeah. So then you have your shotless. So then you just like, that's it. You think in shotless. And it's like just like writing a recipe. Our friend, we share a mutual friend in Doug Lyman.

Doug Lyman told me once that making something is a lot like cooking. So that writing the script is writing the recipe. Going to set is like going to the grocery store and getting all of your ingredients. And then when you go to editing, it's like you're cooking and actually putting the meal together. That's exactly right. And he's also a really good cook. And he's a very good cook. Yeah, he's a really good cook too.

Oh, yeah. He baked like the best pie ever. What kind of pie? Well, we picked berries and it was like a fresh, like, anyway. Speaking of cooking, what is it like living with your husband and the eating? It's amazing. Yeah, it is. Because I don't cook.

Oh, you don't. Okay, tell us about that. So for everyone listening, obviously John and Vinny's very, like, well-known L.A. chefs, incredible, I mean, just everything about the two of them, but your husband, John. And anyway, just to like, the best food ever. Yeah. And they're really nice guys and they're really, really hardworking. And they're, you know, they really just sort of give it their all. But he, yeah, he, so like two years ago, we have kids.

We have an 11-year-old daughter and an 8-year-old son. And like two years ago, they like sat us down before school last year. And they were like, I was making the lunches. And they were just like, this has to stop. This is a meal. My son starts crying. He's like six. He starts like, he goes, I'm hungry during the day.

I need like a proper meal. Okay. Like, it cannot be like a bag of chips and a sandwich every day. Dad needs to be in charge. Oh, okay. And did he take over? He took over lunches. And what are they?

I need to know what the lunches are. Yeah, so lunches. So I'm just saying, like, that's why certain things are amazing. And also, like, I can make, like, pancakes. Like, I can kind of make a few things for every meal, like, for, like, breakfast, lunch, or dinner. But, like, I can. You'd keep them alive. I'd keep them alive.

But my husband's out of town now. My kids are like, Mom, just so you're going to take us out every night. right? And I'm like, I'm not even going to attempt this. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard. And also at the end of the night, you're like tired and then like to make a meal. It's just not. Yeah. But for my husband, it like brings him joy. It's easy 30 minutes. Lunch is sometimes it's sometimes it is sandwiches. Yeah. But if it's like for her, it's like turkey, avocado. Yeah. A little cheese. Yeah. Like a sandwich. My husband's more like salami or something like that. Leftover dumplings is really big. I go to the supermarket once a week and I get them like supermarket sushi.

You right? Fresh veggies, fruit. I have like given in. I'm like, you want a bag of chips? Because I'm like at this stage, now they're a little older.

I'm like, I just need you to eat. Yeah, right. It's long days. I just need you to eat. I don't care if it's organic all the time. I don't care if it's a bet. I just need like literally calories and things and knowing that you went to school and

you ate. Yeah. Yeah. But it's like he noodles. He has like a new sort of like bodegae supermarket thing now. And they have like, wait, what do you mean? It's called Cookbook.

It's a large-mont. Wait, cookbook is theirs? Yeah. How did I not know that? Yeah. We went to the one in Echo Park. Yeah, they have that. So, like, they have, like, pre-made foods.

That makes so much sense. So, like, we give them sometimes, like, the pre-made foods for, or we'll go to John Vinnie's and then, like, leftovers. Oh, I'm so hungry. And I know. Me too. There's nothing I love more. Yeah.

Yeah. It's so hungry, so all we want to do is talk about food. Support for broad ideas comes from Honeylove. Ladies, imagine a braw that you actually. want to wear. You probably can't think of one unless you already own Honeylove. Today's sponsor, Honey Love has revolutionized the bra game. Say goodbye to Underwire and bulky fabrics that trap heat. Honey Love's bras features supportive bonding that eliminates the need for underwire without sacrificing lift. Plus, they're made with fabric that's so soft. It feels like a second skin. You'll immediately

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That's c-a-r-r-ins-com slash ideas with promo code ideas. So he's not tired of cooking when he comes home? He's not really cooking. No. I mean, some days he is not doing it seven days a week, but like maybe four nights a week, he, like, makes dinner. Oh. And then three nights a week, he'll, like, organize whatever the food is for dinner. But, like, what I've learned from his is, like, he's asking you what you want for dinner at, like, 11. In the morning.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, one of the first times I talked to him on the phone, he's like, what are you thinking for dinner? And so you realize mostly, like, it just takes planning. Right. Yeah. Or he'll be like, okay, I have salmon in the freezer. So when you come home from picking them up.

from school, put the salmon, start to run the cold water over it, get a cold, put it in the fridge. So, like, he's like, constantly, he's always kind of thinking of it. And, like, now their business isn't that he's, like, cooking on the line so much. Yeah. So he's not, he's not cooking on the thing. But sometimes he's also, like, I'm sick of it. And, like, over COVID, he was like, I'm tired of my food.

Like, everyone's got to be tired of their own food at this point. I mean, that happens. How did you guys meet? So my husband is business partners. and is in business part with this guy, Vinnie, and Vinny was dating this girl, Sarah, and Sarah and I had been friends for many years. Ah, okay.

So that's how you met. Set up, group activity. No, so then we knew each other for like, we knew, okay. Okay, here we go. We knew each other for like seven years. Oh, you did. We knew each other for a long time. I was, like, very professional of being single.

I was very professional of being single. And then, but we were always sort of in each other's orbits. and we would like, he would come to parties at my house or I'd see him around. But I just, like, wasn't really even sure of what I should be looking for. And I was just, like, dating everybody to, like, figure out what do I want. And then you finally get to that stage where you're like, I'm actually ready for, like, a really nice guy that, like, values me and appreciates me, all those things. And I was at a birthday dinner. And I don't know if you know, Ashley Margola, she was, of course.

Go out with John. Like, John likes you. Yeah. It's like, oh, I can't believe that. And then, sure not, what happened was I was gutting my, I was making a show living in Vancouver and I was gutting my house in L.A. Because I was trying to get all the, like, ghosts of boyfriends pass out of the house. I like, rip the house up. And I was like, Sarah, I don't have any place to sleep this weekend.

Let me stay at your house. And she's like, well, John's staying here too. I was like, you have an extra room. And so that was like the first weekend in like seven years that we ever really spoke. What? Like we never like. Like, like how? had a conversation and talked. I was like, wait, this guy is like really nice. Oh, wow. He was like a really,

really nice guy. And then I went away and so we had to like talk on the phone. Yeah. And then we came home on the weekends and we kind of saw each other. We did that for like six weeks and you're like, man, you can, this thing of like being long distance. Short term was nice because then you could like have to speak and talk and you couldn't be physical. You had to like. And I was like, wow, he's a really nice guy. And he did something that was really nice for me when I was away that made me realize like, man, this guy really values me. Yeah. Like I was gutting my house.

And like I said, I was living in Vancouver and I was like trying to figure out what color to do the floors. It's a very high class problem. But he like left work during the day to like go take pictures of the floor colors for me to text to me. And that was like, this is a guy that like sees me as like worth the effort and like worth the time to leave work. this is a guy that like really appreciates me. And that's really what I was, you know, what you all, everybody wants to find. And so we, I came home from Vancouver and then we were just kind of, we've just together. Yep.

But how did you get to that point? Because I do think there's a turning point in women's lives where you date the guy, you date the guy, you date the guy, you're not getting what you want. You don't have that kind of attention that you want. But how do you do get yourself? to the point where you were actually ready to receive that. That's so interesting. Well, I had been with somebody for a year before that at the beginning of this TV show.

And then I spent the rest of the, like, year and a half run of the show by myself. And I was like, this is my fault that I'm like single and successful and alone. I had put, like, too many rules on the relationships. I was like making guys jump through hoops. And I was just like, I don't want this anymore. Like, to be successful and alone is, like, not worth it. And I also just don't want to be alone. Like the thing I want more than my career and you guys can see that I'm ambitious is like,

I've always just wanted to be like married and have a family and have a partner. And like when I'm asleep at night, that's what I'm praying for. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Absolutely. That is like number one. But I was like, this is my fault. So by the time John came in, I was like, I am just going to say yes to everything.

Right? And he was like, let's move. And I was like, okay, fine, yes. Like everything that I would be like, no way. I was like, I'm going to say yes. and I'm going to say yes. And like, I really think the beginning of our relationship was like the hardest. Just like, who is this other person? How do you live together? How do you create a life together? Even when we first have our kids, how do we parent together? And it's only subsequently

gotten easier. Right. Right. As we've like built together. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. And like not the parenting is easy and like having two kids and two careers and families and all that. Like, it's not easy, but, like, there's a lot of trust between us. There is a lot of, a lot of, just a lot of juggling, a lot of respect. And I just think a lot of partnership. Like, he does the food, but, like, I handle all the kids. Like, yeah. Not everything.

Because he does all the house stuff. I don't do any of that kind of stuff either. And he handles a lot of that stuff. So, like, I handle, like, I go to kids. I've been a drop off. I'm a pickup. I'm talking to his teachers. I'm doing the classes.

Like, what's going on? You know, like, I'm doing all that, and then he does all the other stuff. Partnership. It's a real partnership. It's a real partnership. It's a real partnership. Yeah, it's interesting, too, because I feel like one thing I love that you said is the truth, which is that when you were going to sleep at night and praying, it was for that.

Because I think so many times people pump this message of, like, you have to be okay alone, and you have to love yourself, and you have to this, and that's all great. And you should be okay alone, and you should love your. yourself. But there's also a yearning, I think, for a lot of people that they shut off because they think that they should just be okay alone. When the truth of the matter is, you're allowed to crave things. And you're allowed to want things that you don't have. And I think that there's a narrative that that's not okay for some reason. Totally. I mean, I enjoyed my singlehood. And it was really hard. But like, I'm so grateful that I was like not partnered up until

my early 30s because like I really got to know myself. Yeah. I like had, I went on vacations by myself. I did all that stuff. But you're right. Like that was the thing I was always looking for. And that was the thing that mattered to me. I like really wanted my own family.

Yeah. So now that I have my kids, I'm just like, how do I make it good enough that they don't want to come back? I think you're doing. Yeah. I think you're doing it. You're letting them have the bag of chips. So many bags of chips.

So many. From the gummies. Yeah. Like, really? Why? It's not good for their teeth, the dentists. Oh, okay. Yeah.

Everything, but whatever. They have sour candy all the time. I do it all. Yeah. Lots of sugar. I'm like, you're not hungry. How about a bowl of ice cream? Yeah.

Now you're hungry. I know, we talk about this. Like, our kids get dessert. Every day. Yeah. Every day. Sometimes every meal. Yeah.

Yeah. But just feed them. Yeah. I'm like, as long as you're eating the other stuff, you're going to be okay. Yeah. There's just so many. I'm bad.

I'm like, those teeth are going to fall out. You're going to get new ones. You're going to lose this round. Yeah. But how old's your child? I have two. I have an eight-year-olds and a five-year-olds. Oh, totally.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, two boys. Yeah, two boys. Oh, two boys. Two boys. Yeah. I have a girl who's nine.

Oh, amazing. Yeah. She's in third grade? Yeah. How fun. I know. It is fun. Although last night she was like, mom, oh, school tomorrow.

And I'm like, honey, you used to always be so happy to go to school. And she's like, third grade is really hard. Yeah. I think it switches in third grade. I think it kind of gets a little more. Like, well, now they're like doing multiplication and you're like expecting to read chapter books and you're reading to learn. Yeah. Yeah.

It's a different thing. Second grade's hard. We switched schools mid-semester. Oh, good for you. And so we had a school that was like no homework, none of that stuff, right? And then we switched to a more, you know, typical school. and my son said to me today, he's, I'm so sad. Because my little one has, he's different, right?

And my second grader was like, mom, I'm really worried about Shepard. And I was like, why are you worried about him? He's like, this school's really hard. And I'm really afraid he's not going to be able to keep up. Oh, no. And I was like, baby, you don't need to worry about that. Like, we're watching. Like, we've got this.

Like, we're going to put Shepard where Shepard's supposed to be. Oh, the little one. Yeah, the little one. And it was just so sad that he was like worried. He takes on so much, though. He takes on so much. Like as his guardian, right? Yeah, I was like, you have to trust us.

Like, we're not going to have shepherd somewhere he's not supposed to be. And he's like, yeah, but I'm telling you, second grade's really hard. And I just don't think he's going to be able to do this. And I was like, well, the good news is not in second grade. Yeah. You know? Yeah. But it's just crazy to watch these like little brains processing and like.

I know. I'm wanting to fix it. I know. It's so hard. I have a hard time with, like, the friendship dynamic. I don't know with your daughter if, like, when did it, did it, have you had to deal with that? Yeah. Okay, because I need a little.

I can read her right now. Because I'm just, like, trying to figure out how to navigate this stuff. I mean, I probably made a lot of mistakes. Yeah. It did make a lot of mistakes. When did you see it kind of start? Well, in kindergarten, there is this thing. kindergarten where the parents could go to school in like volunteer. Yeah. And I was just

like sussing it out. Yeah. Like, oh, who do I like? Oh, who do I not like? Right. Right. Like, let me just have play dates with all these. And there was just one that I was like, uh-uh. Right. I can just see that this is going to take us down a path. And like, because I was a child to actor, I, like, was barely hanging on at school. So I came up with. other methods to, like, fly through. And I had a great experience in my education, but, like, I didn't learn too much. Right. Right.

But I have learned the school of hustle, and I am, like, a professional at it. But, like, I am just, like, very focused that I wanted my kids to, like, learn when they go to school. So I had, like, asked to separate my kid, my daughter from certain people. Because I was like, this is not, this is going to be distracting to the education. Got it. Got it. Smart. Right?

And kindergarten, I saw it. Whoa. Because I conferred with the teacher. I got confirmation. And then COVID hit. And we came back and we basically came back in fourth grade. And I was like, what happened? You don't have that many.

Like, she's the nicest person. She's a million friends outside of school. But I was just like, oh, wow. A million. And anywhere she goes, she has friends. She's an incredible kid. But I was like, the relationships at school, she kind of missed the boat. And so last year, it was hard for me personally.

Because I was like, I'm sending you to a place that you love the education. you're like taking advantage of everything the school has to offer, but you're not really getting those relationships. So hard. That is such a big part of growing up. Although she had those experiences and those relationships outside of school. Right? So I literally every single weekend, I was just having play dates.

One kid after the next, I was like, I will just foster these relationships. And we did. and it has worked. And I think in it, she also learned, like, some of these people aren't that nice. And she herself has learned to be like, I don't want to be friends with X, Y, and Z. But when I tell you, I was at school, like, that hysterical mom, like, crying being like, you guys, how did the young of you teachers see this? Don't make, I'm going to start.

Right. I can't. And I'm not, like, the quiet mom that's in the corner. I'm going from, like, one teacher to the next teacher to the next teacher being like, this isn't enough. Like just learning to read now is not enough if we're going to miss this big component at school. And also, like, she does have a lot of friends. And so that's that thing.

And she's navigating it. But even now, I'm always like when I go to school, I'm like, oh, my God, just hold it together, Sherry. Like, just don't act like a nut job. Don't embarrass her. And then with my son, it's totally different. Interesting. Because of different genders, too. And then you're like, if he's like, so-and-so is me and I'm like, whatever.

I know next day you're going to say that one's me. And the next day, you're going to like this kid. and he wasn't mean because he played basketball and he cheated. Like, I can't really wrap my head around it totally yet. Maybe because it doesn't push my buttons in the same way. That's it. I don't know. With boys, I think it's a little bit, I don't know.

It's confusing. My husband doesn't get, he doesn't worry about any of it, which is so interesting. It is. I feel like that's a lot. I see it with a lot of dads. Like when things are going on, they're like, what do you mean? They're kids. Like, whatever.

He's just like our kids are going to be fine. Yeah. This is like. They have to go through things. Yeah. Well, I just do wonder, like, my son, we've moved every single year. He's gone to a different school every year. And so he's missed out on some, like, really fundamental root-building relationships through school. But he has them outside of school. And I'm like, does it really matter? No, they say as long as they have one friendship. Yeah. Like, one real friendship. He has best friends. It does not matter if those relationships exist on campus or off campus. You know how I feel? I'm like, as long as they have. relationships and can build relationships.

Yeah. To me, that's what matters. I don't know how to navigate like the mean girl stuff. You know, like I just, like you were saying, it's like, do you just remove them from that relationship or like, I got all different people's advices. Yeah. Some people were like, they have to learn it themselves. Don't be too engaged.

Right. And then my mom was like, what are you talking about? Yeah. Like this is the time in your life when you can like play in a hand in it because when they get in a high school, we're not going to have that control. Right. It's so tricky. And so you're just like... It's like...

And so I listen to my mom. I listen to my mom. Because she was just like, no, if you see it now, why are you going to let it go on? Right. Because they don't know how to see it yet. They haven't learned it and they don't... They don't need to fight that battle. Right.

But it's also... I think it's like giving them the tools now so they know how to navigate it later. Like because you are still guiding them, you know, like you said, once they're in high school, they're like... They're not. But like sometimes they have to get their feelings hurt. Right. And you feel like, you're going to be disappointed. And to feel like that isn't friendship. That's not what it is. Right. What feels, what is friendship, right? What is love? What do those things feel like?

Yeah. Is that, that happens, because you have both. You have a boy and a girl. Yeah. That happens more with girls, right? Those conversations? Yeah. Yeah, but my son has those kind of conversations too. What's interesting with the oldest is that my daughter is able to say to him like, oh, and that's not friendship. Oh, wow. Like if the person's not being nice to you or saying they don't want to play with you because you're not giving them your snacks, like that's not a friend.

Right. Right. It can be as basic as that. And then he kind of understands. Right. And so what is nice is her saying that to him and he like looks up to her in that way and that she's like the peer. But he does that. Sometimes he also says like, I don't know if I fit in or feel comfortable.

And I'm like, what doesn't fit in in second grade? Like what does that even look like? But like it breaks your heart. But at the same time all I think about is like, I don't know. I dropped them off in the morning and they're happy. And when I pick them up in the afternoon, they're happy. Right. But also it's like if we were all really, at least I'll speak for myself, like I thought

I fit in through school. But like when I look back on it, it's like, no, I started drinking at 11. And I started like even like, yeah. Like I thought I fit in, but like I wasn't comfortable. Who knows what I would have felt like if I wasn't like part of certain things. And so I think that the. kids just have a more in-tuned sense now of their comfort because they have different language. They have different parents. They have different awarenesses where when I hear a kid say, I don't

know if I fit in or I'm not comfortable, I'm like, good for you. Yeah. So good for you. Yeah. So clear. To be able to recognize that and be like, yeah, we all fucking feel like that sometimes. How are you supposed to fit in though when it's like strangers from all different walks of life, all different life experiences and family dynamic? Yeah. And there's like 20 kids in the class and you're like, go find your people. You're like, what are you talking about? I can't even do that as a grown up. That's what I'm saying.

Right. So, like, of course you're going to feel left out. Like, it takes a long time in life and many experiences and a lot of different opportunities to find the people that you're like, this is my person. Right. Yes. Right. Yes. I'm 45.

My friend Wiles and I'm friends. I met her at 21. But how many friends that I meet in my 20s that I'm still around with today? Very few. Right. Exactly. Right. So how it eight?

Sure. Maybe there's no one in this class. you connect with. But like go have a good experience. Get what you want. We have a great life. Right. So I feel like that too. I feel like we don't need to push. Yeah. The connection. The connections. It's like if you put us in a room with 40 parents and I don't know about you, we've talked about this with other people we're really close with. We're like you go to a second grade. How many parents do you want to hang out with when you leave? Right. Right. That's what I'm saying. So why would we expect our children to? That's what we say all the time.

Just got to go to education. Just get a good education. Just learn as much as you can. Throw the ball, chase it. You just have a good experience during the day. But the friend dynamics is hard because I went to school and I was just all about the social. So I can't help but like want the gossip in her grade. And she's like, mom, why do you even care?

I don't care. I'm like you though too. It was like all. It's all I care. Yeah. And my mom was like you went to high school to like get your messages and like talk to boys and that's it. You're like, yeah. Isn't that what high school is for him?

Yeah. And I'm like she's definitely going to an all-girls school. Like we did you go to an all-girls school? No, I went to Calabasasas high school. Oh, you went to like Catholic school. I ditched every day. I was like a professional cheater. I was like a hustler.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was a good time. Yeah. You're like, I had the best school experience. I got to college. I was like, what?

I've like done this. Yeah. Right. Get me in the real world. Brought ideas is supported by Blissie. Who knew that a better pillowcase is all you need for better sleep. Let's talk about practicing self-care while you sleep. Set yourself up with better sleep with Bliss's award.

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and colors and they make great gifts because there's an option for literally anyone. Men love them too. They have over one million raving fans and you could be next. Try now risk free for 60 nights at blissy.com slash Rachel and get an additional 30% off. That's B-L-I-S-S-Y-S-Y-com slash Rachel and use code Rachel to get an additional 30% off. Your skin and hair. Well, thank you. Wait, I feel like it was similar for me. Now you're submitting it that way, you know, I mean, I did, you know, high school, but high school also had like a drama department. Yeah. To it, which was like amazing. But it was a lot of partying and like boys and friends. And I met all my best friends high school, you know? And so it's just so interesting though.

But it's just so different. And then I'm like, oh my God, Briar, you cannot do. what I did. That's how I feel. I'm like, just go to school and learn. Yeah. I want you to get a education. Yeah, get a real education. Please. My husband's the opposite, though, because he had like a really wholesome, typical, you know, just like a great experience growing up. Yeah. He was more, it was more structured. Yeah. And so he's like, I want him to live. And I'm like, I want him to learn. You know? But like, two different. It's, It's hard. It's like there is that kind of.

I want them to live hard, but after school and on the weekends. Yeah. When they're in school, I want them to soak up that education and just feel like they can walk into any room as an adult and have a conversation that's like educated and informed about a variety of topics and feel confident in what they have to say. And then also at the same time be like, let's go have a good time. Yeah. Right.

Right? And like find passions. Like at this age, I'm like, we're all just learning to read. Right. And like, but like, can we help them find things that they're passionate about that will like help them figure out later in life what to feel passionate about? Because that's like the key to the whole thing. Yeah, but I feel like you guys are already winning at that.

I say this all the freaking time. More is caught than taught. They're watching you model it. Totally. And there is nothing that is going to be more impactful for them becoming that than you two doing that. Totally. Thanks. That's nice.

It's true. No, but I think so. I mean, like, my husband and I are, like, both, like, I keep saying, like, we're both really driven, but we are driven to things that we're passionate about. And either one of us are, like, educated in that formal way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But my mom's always said, like, there's so many forms of education, right? Like, if you're taking your kids, you're traveling, you're exposing them, you know, that is, like, the best education. It's like, okay, there's textbooks. And sure, there's things you need to know. Do we look back and are like, oh, I'm so happy, like, out. Algebra taught me, like, whatever the fuck that you never use again. But, like, if you're taking the kids to these experiences, I feel like it's so much more... I don't know what the word is, but it's just... It's like, well-rounded, exposing. What are you guys doing for spring break?

I'm going to Portland. Oh, cool. Are you guys traveling? We are. Are you guys doing something? We're... But not... Undecided at the moment, but... We had a trip planned, and then we scrapped it. Oh, what was it? We were going to go take him to Mexico City, which we thought was had a really cool. but then it just started to feel like, whoa, what is this? Like, what is this really? What are we really going to do? And then last week we decided we are going to, we rented an RV. My dream. My dream. My dream has always said no. And for whatever reason, he just changed his mind and said yes. And so now I'm like trying to book like our, yeah, our park. That is going to be, it's going to be incredible. How far are you going? Like we are, I think we're going to go for like 14 days. I think we're going to do like, I think we're going to go San Diego, Las Vegas, Grand Canyon, Zion, Sedona. This is my dream.

Me, too. He's always said, no, but then I was last time, I'm like looking up RV parks. I'm like, whoa, guys, this is a little bit more intricate. It is not interesting. He's like, it's all of you. You have to do this. This is your shot list.

It's a huge. This is my shot list. It is. There's so much planning. So much planning. You have to know, I mean. The kids are more excited about this. John was like, I cannot believe they're telling everyone we're going in an RV.

But it's. It's so fun. I think it's going to be really fun. I'll report back. Yeah, it actually was. But yeah, we're going. We're really. That's always what I've said.

Like, my honeymoon, I don't want to go anywhere fancy. I want to take an RV. Yeah. I mean, I've never been married. Yeah. In my mind. Yeah. I thought we're like, I've never been in one.

No, yeah, I've never been in one. But also, you have two kids. So for me, like, I only have one. Yeah. So those trips, I'm like, she needs like another little person. We started taking our vacations with other families. Right. Yeah.

Totally. Like our last handful of. vacations and families we don't even know that well. Yeah. Ooh, that's rough. Wait, what? We, yeah. How do you do this?

Wait, hold on. Because we met, like, some of our best friends at a resort. Okay. Like, in Mexico, we were on vacation. We met this other family. We're like, oh, the nicest people. We spent the whole vacation with us. Yeah.

And we're really good friends with them afterwards. And then we went on another vacation. We, like, met another. John was like, let's just bring families with us. Like, we're going to be strangers. So one trip, we've taken two trips with families that we did. not know well. And? One of them was last spring break and they're some of our best friends now. And the other one

was like still really good. And it was like just fun. And like we're still friends with them. Everything was great. Yeah. But you're like it's just nice for the kids to have friends. It's the only way it's a real like trip vacation is like if you have that dialed in. And then the tricky part is like when you're like, oh wait, their way they are operating as a family is way different. Right. Right. Yeah. Like we are like let's play Uno at the table. if you need to get up and do a dance really quick, let's do a magic show. Like, I know the food's coming out, but let's just stop for a second because we got to play Taylor Swift. Like, whatever has to happen.

And if other people are a little bit more, but that's just life. It is. It is. And it's interesting to observe. Yeah. But I think it's, I would highly recommend just like find anybody that's like throw it out. I'm all looking to go to Palm Springs. Yeah, 100%.

We do that. Like, we'll go and join up with any friends with kids. Because that's what's fun, you know. Yeah. I mean, it's been weird. I mean, I've never, like, I have my cousins and I've done it. Like, newer friends. Like, we make friends through school.

Like, we've gone on trips and it's the best. And now we're really good friends. That's right. It's a really good way to say, like, are we friends? Right. And we went on spring break to Morocco with the family last year that we literally never. You went to Morocco? Yeah, last year we took like three weeks.

It was amazing. That's incredible. How was it? It was great. We went to Morocco, Israel and Paris. Wow. This is really amazing. Because you're just like, if you're going to get it over there.

Yeah. Just like the family you did. No, we did Morocco with them. Okay. And then we went to Israel, met my family. My kids, like, saw all of our family over there, which they'd never done before. My husband had never been. Wow.

And it was really, like, just important and valuable. Yeah. And then my daughter wanted to go to Paris. Of course. On the way home. Of course. So we stayed for a few days. Yeah.

And it's exactly what you're saying. You're like, just that time together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now I'm like, I'd like to. I know. I want to go to Paris.

I want to go anywhere. I'm going to go anywhere. Anywhere. anywhere. I'm always saying that. I'm like, I will go anywhere. And the kids will go anywhere. Yeah.

With their iPads on a plane. That's right. No, it does make everything better. Like, we're going, spring break, we're going to mount hood. I don't even like skiing. I'm scared to ski. It's like, I don't like being cold. I don't like, but the answer's yes.

And it's with another family, so it's always better. That's right. I'm like, I'll go anywhere with them. Yeah. Also, if you could give your kids a gift of skiing, then they're going to be in college. My friend's like, you just want to get them, like, comfortable, yeah. But if they're on a ski trip in college, that they can ski.

Yeah. I know. My daughter's been skiing. Could she ski? We don't ski. I'm not great. Like, I always snowboarded as a kid. I'm not well as a teenager.

Yeah. It was cool, right? And then she has started skiing and she's good, and I tried skiing for the first time last year. It's so much easier. Oh, then snowboarding. But I still don't love it because I get scared. That's me too.

I get so scared. I'm like screaming on the chairlift. Because I'm getting off the chairlift, going down too fast. Like, it's all, I'm just like, constant pizza. Me too. Pizza, french fry, pizza. No French fry. Just pizza. Oh, just pizza. I just pizza. It's just scary. I don't know. But she loves it and I'm so happy and I encourage it and her dad's great about taking her so. No. There's so many things. Yeah. I'm like, I'll stay back at the cabin and cook or eat and just not go. I don't want to go.

I know. There's so many things and they're so active and I do. And I wonder because like my daughter's so active. Like every day after school there's something for the most part. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, maybe they need a day where there's nothing. Yeah. And I'm working on that. But she just wants to do everything. So it's like how much do you support? Doing that stuff.

Yeah. We do it during the week, for sure. Like you're saying, every day after school, there's something. And then we tried not to do anything on the weekend, but now they both have found things that they really love to do. So on Sundays in the afternoon, they have, like, one thing. But on the weekends, we tried to just let them chill. Right.

Because it's a lot. I think they get overwhelmed. They get a little. Yeah. Just like you're saying, everyone also needs a break from like, get out the door. We're going to be late. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Stuff. We got to go. And so, yeah. On the weekends, I try not to. Yeah. I feel like the week, but there's always either like a birthday or whatever. I was just going to say, I'm also like, do we really have to go to this birthday party?

Yeah. There was an escape room birthday party. Oh, that's so funny. Oh, that's so fun. Oh, really? Was it fun? Uh-huh. So fun.

Oh, on Robertson. Yeah. This was like in Hollywood somewhere. Yeah. An adult has to go in, I guess, which we didn't realize. And so myself and another mom went in. And it was so, I mean, I love a see for. You scary? Was it scary? Yeah. It was, no. It was like a kid friendly one. Oh, okay. I'd be scared. Uh-huh. Well, I always get before I go in, I have that moment of panic. Yeah. And so, like, my mind instantly is like, I'm going to have a panic. Yeah. What if I have to pee? You know what I mean? But I'm like, you're fine. And it's always fine. And it was fun. And it's always like, is this your real friend? Do you want to do this? or we're going to do this.

Right, right, right. Right. How important is. Yeah. No, my daughter does not want to miss it. It doesn't matter if it's like a best friend or like an acquaintance. She can not miss a birthday party. Wow, really?

Well, she doesn't want to. What do you do for you outside of your kids? Oh, thanks for asking. I appreciate that. I like to exercise. What? What do you? Well, I was, I did Tracy Anderson for like 10 years.

Oh, wow. But then COVID hit and I just haven't been back. I like to hike. Like I said, I like to get out in nature. I like to do a lot of plumb. Lotties. I have a Peloton. I like the Peloton app a lot. Yeah, it's great. I use the Peloton app a lot. I am a class pass. I love class pass. So I could just find classes. But I like to exercise. I like to read. And what else do I take hot baths? I love to garden. I am like really big. And you're good at it? Yeah. I wish I was. Yeah, again, John, like, helped sort of steer me, but I've really taken it over, and we have a week grow a lot of stuff at the house. Oh, my gosh.

Well, right now, our cum quots are crazy. The whole weekend has been about cum quots. The kids took them and sold them on Larch Month this weekend. No way. Farmersmark, I swear to God. We were there for, like, two and a half hours. That is so cute. Selena Gomez walked by, and my dad was like, oh, my God.

That's a sighting. I mean, it was amazing. She was, like, 10 years old, and I was like, it was great. Humquots, tomatoes, lemons, limes, apples, blueberries, wow. Pumpkins. What? Cucumbers.

We've grown everything, eggplant. And then the great thing is that, like, John cooks it. Yeah. Otherwise, I wouldn't know what to do with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I wouldn't know what to do with it. I don't like growing lettuce. I find it very unsatisfying.

So you grow it, you cut it instead. Yeah. Right? That's it. One head of lettuce. It's finished the same thing with broccoli or cauliflower. I don't find that satisfying. I go flowers.

But I spend a lot of time on my garden. That's so therapeutic. Yeah, and I journal every day. I've been writing in a journal since I was a kid. No way. Yeah. That's so good. I do it all the time.

Did you watch a Pamela Anderson documentary? I didn't. I didn't see it. But if she writes in her journal a lot? She journaled her whole life. It was so cool to see because then she went back through all these. She's journaled the entire time. Oh, wow.

So there was like reflection she could go back on. I was like, God, that's beautiful. to be able to, like, capture her experience the whole time. Anyways, I want to read your journals. Yeah, that's so interesting. I know. I was like, I feel like I really found myself, especially in my 20s in my journals. And now I just sort of journal just to, like, get my thoughts out or get everything out.

Do you read it back or is it just to be done? Sometimes I, like, read throughout the full journal itself to be like, where did I start? Like, I've been talking about wanting this thing for so long. Or look how I dropped that thread. or like, man, I've been writing about wanting this and like, look, now by the end of the journal, I have that. That's interesting. Oh, that's cool. How many do you have?

I mean, like, do you keep them all? Yeah. And, like, some I have that have, like, for my whole 20s, I used to get them, like, from T. Anthony and have, like, my name embossed on. But, like, you know, my whole 20s, it was, like, every plane flight, every movie ticket, like, everything was taped in there. That's so cool. Yeah. Now my kids, like, draw on my journal. so I like kind of write around their drawings

and then you stick cards in the journals from people and then you just have them all in there. Is it ever hard to go back and look at some of the things? I mean, you're not going to read them because it's like, I'm excited I had this audition for the OC. Yeah. Didn't get the job. I'm just saying, like, what are you right?

You know what I mean? Wait, did you? No, I was already on Rossell, but I was just like that audition for. I'm just, but you know my Josh Schwartz story? No. Wait, tell me. I probably do. Remind me.

Okay, so Josh Schwartz went to USC. Yeah. Right? So Josh Schwartz and I went to USC and my big sister and my sorority was his girlfriend at the time. No way. And that first, my second year there, Josh was a third year. I made the pilot for Roswell and Josh made another pilot, not the O.C. The records one or whatever?

It was like a boarding school or something. Okay, okay. And so we got together at his house to watch our pilots. No. And he found out, I found out that day that Roswell got picked up and his pilot didn't get picked up. But we sat next to each other. We watched each other's pilots. No way.

Yeah. And now where our kids go to the same school. I know. I was going to say, but Stella's older. She's six. And then the other one is, they're both like one year older than my kids. Yeah. But it's very funny because our lives have like constantly intertwined.

But I always am like, Josh, you really scored since that one, that one series. That one let's done pretty well, Mr. Yeah. Oh my God. How funny is that? Yeah. Really funny. I talk about that because you just never know. Yeah, but you see him because of school. And he crushes it. Yeah. He crushes it. But yeah, that's what I do for myself. And I like just, I get into big faces of exercising.

And the other thing is I love the real real. Oh, my God. Yeah. I'm just saying, like, if you want to talk about like that's the thing that really gets me going. That is it. I like, I want to look great, but I want a deal. And it just like makes me feel good. It really, it's really, it's really great. It really does. I like, don't do too much other beauty kind of things, but like if I can just have some clothes that make me feel like together. Are you good at making the decision?

I have a group of my friends that are really good at style. Okay, so you throw it up to them. Everything. It's like a group thread that you just. No, no, different friends. One of my best girlfriend in New York will shop together. If I need to shop, we'll shop online. Like, we'll do a Zoom and she'll shop with me.

or if I get things, I'll send her photos. Yep. Or like, don't put it with that. And then another friend of mine that I went to Morocco with, that I didn't know who has incredible style. This summer she said something to me really well. I was wearing, like, something with, like, a lot of flowery prints and very girly. She's like, you don't dress as smart as you are.

Oh. And I was like, I love you. How did that feel? Yeah. Give me the note. Oh, wow. Give me the note. I think I would be like, hmm.

No, I was like, give me that note. She goes, that is not as, you are so much. smarter than how this outfit is like selling you. I was like, I love you for saying that to me. Wow. And so I just like, did that feel it felt true. Yeah. I was like, I get that. Yeah. Because I don't think being stylish is like inherent to me. So I like think about it. Like when I get dressed to go to work, I like really think about my outfits because I'm on set finally in my own clothes. Yeah. Being the boss. So like that's a whole thing. So I love a note. Yeah, I love a note. You do have a director's mind.

You're like, yes, give me the feedback. Let me make it better. Especially about my style. Wow. Like things that I'm not like or like my best girlfriend, New York when I was shopping with, she came over Christmas. Over COVID, my husband started dyeing my hair. Like everybody else, right?

And so we never stopped for four years. It's amazing. Yeah, for four years he died my hair. And I didn't know that you were only supposed to dye the roots. The roots. And so for four years he died my whole. whole head once a month and like literally fried my hair. And so my girlfriend came from New York and she was like, what do you do? Your hair is terrible. Like this is not going to, cheery. Come on.

And I was like, she's like, you're just prettier than this. This is like not the best version of you. And that's what sometimes you need your friends to be like, yeah, wake up. And I was like, thank you. And that's why I chopped. I went back and she was like, he can't dye your hair anymore. Like I get that he's good at it and it's cute for you too that he's like, you're nurturing and like a cub and like taking care of me and so sweet but she's like you need to go to a professional what are you doing right so do you go to professional now I just did it for the first time yeah it's great your root that was my number one in my journal the very first new year's resolution was like figure out your hair oh get it together they did it though it looks great yeah it did it in January so I felt very

good like man 2024 is off to the race how do you feel it's I just had that length it's is your hair naturally straight like yeah Yeah, but I blow-dried. I mean, I just, like, I wash it. And then this today, I just learned to use a roly brush for this hair. So I blow-dried. I was like, oh, this is a good one today. But, yeah, but I want to feel together.

I get it. I know, you know, like we're in our 40s. I want to feel like a grown woman. So how do you feel? Because sometimes when I do feel like the- You're really getting all over the place. I know. We are.

We like it all. It's not good. Because sometimes, like, we'll dress like 14-year-old sometimes. Yeah, me too. And then sometimes I'll be a little bit more womanly, and I'm like, I don't like the way this feels. Oh. This doesn't feel right to me. Like, I don't feel like I'm there yet.

I only want to dress like the woman. And when I'm dressing like that other thing, I'm like, God, sure, you gave up today. Oh, wow. I have a really hard time. But that's just me. Yeah, totally. Because I'm like, I know. No, it's, yeah.

That's just me. I feel like Victoria Beckham is also someone. Oh, I watched that documentary. I didn't watch that. That series was incredible. Loved it. And they were so wonderful. And I had never given them the time.

And I thought that documentary really opened my eyes to how much I love them. Oh, wow. You're making me want to up my game. If you were to see me when I go to bed. I wear matching sweatsuits every day. Like, that is my uniform. I've heard Ava Mendes say that before. She never dresses in sweatpants in front of her dude or something.

Didn't she say something like that? And I'm like, I just, I would, I don't know. I don't know how to, I know how to, I know. I know. I try not to wear that. them. Except when I go to the beach or something, then you're like, I'm at the beach. I'm wearing the sweats. But I try not to wear them. But then what are you at the minute I wear this to drop off. But the minute I walk in the door, my clothes come on. My jeans come off and my cozies come on. Sure, of course when I come home.

But like, sometimes I'm trying to be like maybe I'll put black leggings on in a cashmere sweater or something. But I don't. I look like a mess, you guys. I'm only, that's only my goal. That's only my goal. But like I I lived all weekend in sweatpants. I feel like I look like a 90s, like hip-hop rapper when I dropped like kids off at school. I try to, I want, it makes me feel good about myself. If you're asking me, what do I do for me? Yeah, no, I'm loving this. It's very inspiring.

It is. I'm thinking, often. Yeah. But I think you have really good style. I just want to say. Olivia, you do too, but I don't see you on Instagram with your cute outfits or like things. But I think you have really good style. I appreciate that.

But if you saw me at school drop, a lot of the times I'll send, like, my friends or my school mom friend. And I'll be like, if I have to get out of my car, I look like a legit, like insane person. Yeah. Crock socks, wrong pajama pants, basically like a furry grandma robe. Yeah. Like, it's the whole combo. Yeah. But I'm always like, I can knock it out of the car. And if my daughter needs help when we pull into the parking lot, I'm like, I am sorry, I can knock it out of the car.

Oh, my God. That's so funny. Yeah, no, it's the thing. Yeah. That's how I feel sometimes, too. It's like, you know, that I always get out of the car. I'm just like, whatever. I have to get out of the car too.

I just don't care. You both have to at drop off? No, I just have. Like, my inner soul just is like I have to walk on campus and just like see that they're okay when they get in the class. Oh, you can walk them. Oh, yeah. In? Yeah, you walk in.

Hi, Claire. How's Nat's doing? She seems happy. How's Owen doing? You brought us to her water bottle. Yeah. Whatever it is. I don't know that. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, you could do that. But I hear you. I feel the same way, too, but I debate. Should just get rid of the sweats. But then I see, like, the monocry. Okay, so interesting question. I have really decided also in the last, like six months, I am just going to wear pajamas outfits. Right. Yeah. Like a real proper.

Jay Crew. Yeah. Uh-huh. So I have, like, that's what I wear to bed. I have them. Yeah. And I just wear. Oh, pajama outfits. Yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah. Like, yeah. Like, like, matching sets. Like Diane Keaton. Are you. Are you familiar with? familiar with eberge? No, I'm not. Okay, because they are the softest most, but they're matching. Yeah, so I have a few J-Crew outfits. Yeah. And those are what I wear to bed. I try to wear those. And sometimes I get cold, I'll throw like a sweatshirt over it. Yeah. So I did this thing the other day and I had to wear, it was like an orange t-shirt and a robe and like socks. And it was supposed to be like a crazy lady, right? And I showed my husband, he's like, that looks like you. Just normal. Just every Tuesday. Normal. Like every day.

And I was like, and I thought maybe I should show up a little bit different. I don't know. I am not, I do not shy away from a granny nightgown either. I'm just. I like, another friend of mine, I'm always like when I go to the flea market, I'm like, should I just buy like white lacy things and just sleep in those all the time? Right. Or like instead of sweatpants, should I just be in these like Victorian like old school dresses?

Like I think about that. I wonder what Wells wears to sleep. I'll have to ask her. Right. I think about this. This is like. honestly what I think. No, like, that's all I'm going to think about now. I am loving this so much. Yeah, like, what do you wear to bed? I know someone who only wears, like, laundry and always has,

I won't see who it is, but I respect that. They only wear lingerie, and I was like, I like, I like, I like laundry, but there's, like, a time and a place. Like, I'm not going to sleep in it. Like, they're probably used to seeing her like that or something. Do you know what I mean? Like, like, I have very feminine friends that probably dressed like that, too, and they're probably just used to seeing them in that. I do need to go home and just, like, clean it all out. I always feel like I want to just clean it all out. Yeah. Refresh it all the time. That's also like I have so much stuff that I've kept for the past like 30 plus years. I know. I've been trying to just get rid of a lot of it. Yeah. That whole thing of like, it doesn't make me feel good when I look at it. Just like,

get rid of it. Yeah. I'm good at that. I can do that. Yeah. I think that that is really good for your state of mind. And that's the same thing with gardening. Just to tie it all back together. Yes. I like to go into the garden and clip out and get rid of all the dead stuff and all the and energy and like make room for the fresh thing. And I feel like the garden's in the front of the house. And so like it's like the energy bringing into the house. If I can just like clip it all, it's going to bring new stuff around. I love that. What do you wear? To wear when I garden. Yes. Really good questions. Well, you garden, you get bit by bugs a lot. Right. Really? Right. So like you and you want to be covered because if not you're going to have like things

biting you. So I do wear like and things you want to get trashed. Old sneakers or like rain boots, jeans. sweatshirts. I just don't want to get... Sometimes where I happen, I don't mind getting sun. I'm cool with the sun. A little vitamin D action. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. Yeah, I like getting sun. And so I just, in my gloves. Yeah. I'm loving all. I think these are important. Yeah. Yeah, but that's what I spend a lot of time thinking about. The Real Real has really taken over once I've discovered it in the last year or so. Oh, oh, yeah. I always need Rachel. I do it for her. I'm like, I just found it.

Decisions for me because I'm like, I like that and I like that. Yeah. But I'll just let them sit there. I just buy, because once you buy, it's like one shipping cost. Yeah. And so I just buy as much as I can. And then return when you don't want. And then I take it back in and I return it.

Yeah. So wait until my cart is like really full and then I find that one thing that I'm like, this is the thing. This is action. Right. I can't let go buy me. There's some things I missed out on. Oh, I know in that cart, you only have like 20 minutes. Lots of people only have like 20 minutes.

It gives me anxiety. But like you, most likely it'll still be there and you can put it back in. But it does add that extra element of like, you gotta move quick if you want something. But yeah, I like my closet a lot more now. Do you know I check it all the time because I once left my favorite coat at like an ex-boyfriend's that I never got back? So I go on there often to see. Did he sell it? Yeah.

You do imagine if it researches it. That's a funny movie idea. That's cute. I wonder how that plays out, but that's a little cute idea. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. We've covered so much real life. I know. I know. And it's great. And so what's going on now, workwise? Well, I just wrapped on Tuesday.

I was directing the first two episodes of Unprisoned, the second season of Carrie Washington. That's amazing. Yeah. So I am editing. So I was sitting in my car. Oh, that's what you were doing. I was getting it. writing my notes down for the second one.

So I edit this week. And then I'm just trying to call a feature into my life. Oh, yeah. I have a few that are out there. What kind? I, well, I like happy, sad. I like things with emotion. I like working with kids.

And I have a few that are out there. And I'm just trying to be like, let's just make it happen. I love that. Let's just make it happen. Let's manifest it. Yeah. Like crazy. Let's make it be the one that's like the key to all the other doors.

being open so there's more of them. Yeah. Let it be really easy. I'm like, I'm like, yeah, you are manifesting it all the time. Yes. When I have something going on, I'm like, just talk about it right now.

Let's just talk about it. Us witnessing it to brings more power to it. Yeah, so I'm just trying to call that forward. I love it. It's here. That's it. So I'm just trying to do that and like work with great people and yeah. And you're going to RV.

Spring break. Parenting. I mean, full-time parenting. And we're about to hit summer guys. It's already, I can't. It goes so fast. I'm like, how are. It's already here.

It's already here. So just camps. You just sign up for camps like two months ago. I just got told that. I didn't know that information. Arcella is off to the races. Yep. Yep.

I can't. No, my mind. So that's what's going to go. Oh my goodness. What are you guys doing? Summer camps? Summer camps. I don't know.

I'm always so because I, it's, we're unpredictable and like we travel and we don't. There's like one trip we always do with my family. That's the only thing we have set and it's like right when school gets out. So, Nice. Yeah. So, like, my cousins and their kids, so it's like it's a big family trip. That's so nice. It's so nice. It's so nice. It does. And my daughter looks forward to it every year.

There you go. So that's all I have planned less far. I have already signed up for like four camps. You already did it? Yes. Yes. I signed up in October. I had to because the other moms were like, I know. And then it's not available.

Oh, they do? Where? I want to go to sleepway camp. My daughter's doing two camps and one of them's in the East Coast. Wow. There you go that summer, and now it's already Christmas. And now we're at Christmas. I quit. Now I'm basically trying to figure out what am I buying for Christmas presents.

Oh my goodness. Waiting Christmas break now. I'm just kidding. Could you imagine if you were like, I'm already planning Christmas? Oh, I know people that are. I read book. Yeah. Me too. For sure.

I just thank God for other people that give me the cues. They're like now it's time to do this. Yeah, I wouldn't have a clue either. No. Yeah. We're all just trying to do our best. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Well, thank you so much for coming and talking with us. I'm excited for you. Yeah. Thanks. So fucking cool. Thanks. Maybe I could shadow you someday. Yeah.

Anytime you want. Oh, my God. That would be amazing. We could just do a make a shot list tutorial at home. Yeah, that's just doing it. We could do all of it. All of it. It's all possible.

I love it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. All right, back to pager codes, guys. We started there. Let's end there.

Let's end there. This is it. You never had a pager. Do you even know what a pager is? Yes. and what a pager is. What did you ever have one? It's like a beeper.

Yeah, it's a beeper. You page someone and then they go find a phone and they call you. Or you have codes. Like 143. So you can page someone a message? Yeah. Do you know what 143 stands for? You guys said it stands for I love you.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Do you know what 8, 2, 3 is? 8.3 is first words one letter, second words four, Correct. What's 8, 2, 3? I'll tell you. 8, 2, 3.

Is it similar structure? Is it an 8-letter word? You go ahead and try to figure it out, Rob. 8-2-3? He's trying. He's thinking of all if you can think of. This might help. Together we stand.

So I went on my first date with Jeff, right? Oh, I know the story. Because he was a doctor. He had a pager. And I was like, oh, my God, pager. You must be so rich. No. He's a family medicine doctor.

Family medicine doctors aren't rich. And he Hewelhouser. He had a pager. So I was like, oh, we were talking pager codes and all of that stuff. And then the next day, he text me 823. He paged you. No, he text me 8, 2, 3. And that made me know that our coffee date wasn't a friendship date.

So what does 823 mean? What? You know what it means. Oh, I know what it means. Will you text someone 8, 2, 3 and see if they know what it means? Yeah, good idea. 8, 23, this is not a date. It made me go, oh.

And the first words, eight letters? Yeah. Am I really texting someone that to see if they get it? Text a specific person that. Okay. You don't just text a random number that. Can I have a hint? What's the first letter start with of the first word?

Tea. T. Together. What do you want someone to do when you're not with them? Thinking of you. There you go. Yes. They're going to be like, I just said an 8, two, three.

They're going to be like, what? Or if they understand what it means, also, what? Yeah. Well, no. If they know what it means, thinking of you is a nice text. I loved it when I got it. I was like, oh, oh. Oh.

Do I'm up. Can I text Natalie 8, 23? Yeah. She will be like, what the fuck are you talking about? I'm going to text Jeff 8, 2, 3 right now. Aw. She doesn't even, she doesn't have a pager ever. So this is going to.

Well, sometimes people, does she know one for three? No. Yes, she does. Huh. You know what else we used to do? No dashes or anything? Nothing, 8, 2, 3. We used to do like.

Yeah, just the numbers. 8, 2, 3. Like her code was 19. I bet Casper knows what it is. No way. Let's call every month millennial in the book. Jeff maybe would know what it is. He's older.

Yeah. We should just text as many people as possible. Natalie just sent me a question mark back. Who else would respond like immediately? Leah? George. Did George have a pageer? I know.

He's young. But he seems like he would know. Leah knows, obviously. And you all had your personal code. Yeah. So if you set a number. And then after the number was like your code, then you would know it was that person trying to reach you. Oh, so it didn't even say what number was coming from.

You were just getting a random 8, 2, 3? Yeah. Wait, no. It would say the number. But like, let's say Rachel was with her boyfriend and I was trying to get a hold of Rachel. I would text 411419, which would mean I want the information on Rachel. Right? or one, four, three, four, nineteen.

Because I didn't have my page or on me, but my boyfriend had his. Yeah. Yeah, Casper also gave me a bunch of question marks back. Wait, who else can we get? Who else? Did you get the response? No. Yeah, send it to that group chain.

Yeah. 8, 2, 3. I'm going to text George. Who else? That's it. That's it. This has gone on way too long. Okay.

No, I'm having such a good time. I was really feeling like we should have some fun today. Yeah. Is this a code? Oh, see. He's of age. Sort of. It is a code.

We could do trivia. Trivia? Yeah. Rama give it to you with no trivia. I like cocaine straight from Bolivia. Sorry. It's not true. I don't.

In what country? Oh, God. I fail. Oh. What? Oh. In what country did the first Starbucks open outside of North America? China?

Japan. Where were the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and Bill of Rights, stored during World War II? Oh, my God, my gosh. The Smithsonian? I knew property. I want to die.

This is like the laundry for me. This is the laundry for Olivia. I play trivia. Which company slogan is in, you're in good hands. Where are you getting this trivia? I don't know, random folders. Canada. With.

What country, right, you said? Johnson and Johnson. Allstate. Oh, I thought you said what country's slogan is your name? Who is the first televised president? Hoover. No, Roosevelt. Pocahontas was baptized and given what English name?

Jane Smith. I never knew. No. Rebecca. Have you ever heard that before she wants to die? This makes me want to die This is not a good What other? Pick a different

Somewhere else though Because that's not good trivia They do friends trivia What was the original purpose of the tiny pocket and jeans For your lighter No The extra buttons No

Matches Think about how old jeans are Change Change No To store pocket watches Olivia is I don't like this game

Want to know something interesting about me? I would love to. I can be, like, unsure, in the past, like, I even remember being in my 20s and being like this. Like, unsure how I'm feeling about, like, the current person I'm dating,

whatever, whatever. I could go to their house and feel so comfortable and, like, oh, like, I'm in this. You know what I mean? Like, just, like, in their space, weirdly. But then out of their space, I'm like, oh, you know, like you.

Oh. Does it mean you're only dating them for their house? She's like, I like their blanket. Okay, that's great and everything, but can we go to your house? Wait, so you can, you get to their house and you feel like, okay, I'm in this, but then when you go out into the world, you question it, or when they come to your house? Yeah, like Stockholm syndrome a little bit. I'm talking about, like, early 20s, like specifically thinking of a situation.

Everywhere else, it was like a hard no. Hmm. I kind of know what you mean. Yeah. So what is? Is that? Dependency? I don't think so. You know what I think it is? I think it's judgment.

Like, when you're just the two of you in their space, you're free of judgment, but then you go outside of the world, you start questioning them. Right. And how they show up in the rest of the world because you're questioning how other people see them. Yeah. That's exactly what it is. Yeah. Yeah. What is that?

Isn't that interesting? Like, even there are also the people that, like, you know. But even like their voice or like, oh, everything. I'm thinking of someone specific. I know who you're thinking of. In my early, 20. No, late teens even. I know who you're thinking of.

Yeah. Yeah, but I always just remember that. And then there's people I'm like, yes, I want you in my house. I want you in my space. I want you in my world. Are you more comfortable in the beginning going to their space or having them in your space? Good question, right? Great question because that's always the awkward, like, the wake up in the beginning of like,

everything. You know? I feel like it's probably changed for you too. What do you mean? Being a single mom. Oh, yeah, obviously. It's hard for you. I'm speaking generally, like knowing myself

and I'm not putting it into like specifics because yes, I'm a single, like, obviously people aren't sleeping at my house and I'm not like sleeping out often. But it happens. But yeah, it's so awkward because it's just It's the morning breath. It's the like having to like go to the bathroom.

Or morning coffee and you're like stuck at someone's house for like in the beginning of things could be tricky. So you always prefer your place. No, I'm just talking about mornings in general in the beginning. I think no matter where you are. Right. Would you prefer yours or theirs? Because then you're trapped with them at your place and then they don't leave. Sometimes you don't.

I've had that happen before. where like... Pretty recent, right? No. Not that recent. I had a panic attack, but I think the coffee was too strong. Oh, I remember that. And I was like, oh my God, like, I need...

I have had something happen once where I was joking. Like, it was like the beginning of dating someone, and they had something like really important to go to, like on their way to. And they were like, oh, I can't figure out what this place is. And as a joke, I text my address. Like, oh, it's here. Like being flirty and, like, cute. Yeah, that was cute.

And then... they came to my house instead of going to the event. Accidentally? No, they knew they were doing that. It was a real power move. It was cute. But let me tell you when that happened, and I realized they were coming to my house instead of going,

I panicked. Oh, you didn't get ready. No, I panicked. I didn't think they were going to actually do that. No, I was just being cute and flirty. And, like, they were coming to my house. I like, no, I got so nervous because, like, Oh, my God, no.

Like, I don't want them to come here. And then, like, they're getting dropped off. Like, they don't have their car, which means, do they think they're sleeping over? And, like, the whole spiral starts. Yeah, you do that. Yes, she spirals. Yeah. Anyway, they did wind up sleeping over.

And then in the morning, I had a panic attack. Because they were still here. They were still here. It was a lot of caffeine. And they would not stop talking. And they had an anxiety attack. And so, like, I was like, I just feel really sick. So I'd, like, go in my bed and, like, curl up and act like I would, well, I did feel

nauseous from the coffee. But I was having a panic attack. So I was like, I'm really sick. But then I came over the next day and you made me that same coffee and I had a panic attack. Yeah. And I have a tendency. She's heavy-handed. I have a tendency of making, like, rocket fuel coffee.

I have had a few people tell me I am unwell. Yeah. Have you ever thought that maybe that's what feels? fuels your anxiety? Yes, absolutely. And just... Just keep rocking with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I've had someone recently show me a proper dosage, like coffee to order. It's too weak. Like, the way it's supposed to be weak. It can't be weak, and that's the problem. But it can't be as strong as I do because that is so intense. But someone did it, and they didn't even measure it, and they were just like, do, do, do. And I was like, oh, that's so much better.

Oh, really? Yeah. I can't do it on my own. It messed me up a few times. Yeah, I'm sorry. People have told me. Yeah. I get this report.

This is serious. Maybe try reducing your caffeine. After that incident, that one I'm talking about where I had a full-blown panic attack and someone was here and like wouldn't stop talking. I decided to go half-calf for a while. She didn't get rid of the person. She's just like, let me just take the caffeine down a little bit. Did that help? Did that help them stop talking as much?

Never. I've told you what my mom does. What? It's my favorite. Her husband talks a lot. And so she's made a deal with him. You're allowed to talk to me in the morning as much as you want only while you give me a foot rub. But when the foot rub's over, you have to stop talking.

That's brilliant. It's pretty good. It's a good move. It's a good. It's a move. Yeah. It's a power move. It's a power move.

So you still haven't answered my question. What was it? Would you rather be at their house or your house? In the beginning in the mornings. Yeah. Just in general. At night, in the mornings, in the beginning. Like, I think mine, that's not totally true.

I don't know. It depends on who it is. What if you're stuck at their place and you have... You hold it and you go home. You have things to do in the morning after your coffee. You hold it and you go home or you go somewhere else. To the gas station. Do you think they care that much?

No. They don't care about all. Yeah. So then... Why do you? Why do you? Me? Yeah.

I don't even know what you're talking about. I don't have anything to do with this. What do you mean? In the beginnings of things? I think I would. You would. You would leave? You think there's an illusion that they think that you don't shit?

No, of course. Everybody who? No, but I just don't like it. I would be like keeping that stuff for me personally. I'm never going to like, you keep it. I understand if you're in a hotel room and like, it's very close quarters, but you're someone's house and they have more than one bathroom. Like, you can easily go to the bathroom.

Like, figure out how to do it. Discreetly? Yeah. Yeah, if you have to, I'm sure. Yes, if you have to. If you're going to, like, spend the whole day with them. Yeah, but if you're leaving anyways, like, within freezing. You're just cutting it short because you don't want to deal with this.

I'm not really a person that has, like, the emergency. they can't like wait. Does that make sense? So like I can wait to like. You're always a little bit constipated. That's what you're saying. Oh my God. I just don't like it.

Mm-mm. Many of it. Well, I know, but if you're acknowledging that they don't care. They don't care. Then what is it for you that makes you care so much? They have like, what would you do if they were like here? Well, yeah, you'd be like, fuck this person on you with him. Right.

Do you think they'll be less. I don't think care about that stuff. And do you think they'll be less attractive to you if you'd do it there? No. Like you're concerned about smell? You're concerned about them hearing it. What are your concerns? I don't know.

Just knowing that it's happening is like, yeah, it's private. Like, I'm never someone that would, like, toot in front of someone. Never. Like a romantic partner. That's different, though. Is it? A little bit. Is it like in front of?

Yeah, you're going to the bathroom. Why you do in the bathrooms between you and God? But then just think about it. It's so weird because you. You can have like blaring lights and be so vulnerable like with your partner. But like that stuff, you're like, no. Yeah, because that's not sexy. Mm-mm.

Like, it's actually like not sexy. But the door's closed. The door's locked. I don't like even when they do it either. Mm-mm. I'm like. I'm not saying that like you should stomp around. If you like walk out of the room and you hear them like let one out, you know,

and you hear it, but like they're doing the courtesy of like waiting until you're not in there, but you still. hear it. I'm like, oh. But I'm also not saying like stomp around and announce that you're going to take a dump and like talking about it. What if you did? What have you stomped around? Well, I know there's people like that that are like very

open and talking about it and couples that are like that. I'm not suggesting that, but if you're going to another room and like maybe don't be in there for a half hour. Never. Half hour. Why not? I'm Like there are versions of it that maybe would be weird.

But there's also versions of it that it would be totally normal. What's your experience with it as a guy? Like on the other end of it? Because girls are so kind of weird and crazy private about it. And I don't feel like- Not all girls, but really? I mean, no. I know, obviously, not all girls.

What they do in the bathroom is between, it's up to them, I don't care. So you're saying when you first start dating someone and they disappear for a while and you know they're in there going in the bathroom, you're not like, oh, she's in there taking a fucking shit. I'm not like this person's disgusting. They've got a foul movement. But what do you think?

They ate food yesterday and I understand that that's how a body works. I know. It is so simple. Listen. That is how a body works. Everyone out there who does care about this, you have to do the instant flush. As soon as it comes out, you flush. I get being embarrassed or trying to be aware that like you don't want it to smell and you don't want to be like. sound.

Yeah. You can carry that poo-pourri around. Sure. The little, they have travel size. It's so weird. But if it's a guy's bathroom, it's probably already, like, dirty and smelly. Like, you're not making it any worse. You guys, guys are disgusting.

I live with so many men. Yeah. Like, and boys. And I cannot tell you how gross the toilet is. It's really gross. Now, I don't like it when. The toilet seat is left up. I don't either.

How do you feel about a guy sitting to pee so that they don't get pee all over the place? Are you saying you make Jeff sit to pee? No, I'm not saying not. But maybe? But what if I could? Like, why am I teaching my children to stand up and pee all over the toilet seat and the floor and this and that? Why can't they just sit down and pee? You feel like, you're already...

You just hold your penis down. But you're already afraid to sit. on a toilet in public bathrooms. You're hovering. Yeah, I don't. So if you could stand and never have to have your butt touch a toilet and pee, you wouldn't. But what about in your own home? Sure.

Like, do they have to stand and pee all over the walls? Like, is that a thing? No. I mean, I don't have to. I don't pee all over my walls. Because I heard in certain circles that it's more respectful for a man to sit on the toilet and pee, so you're not peeing all over the place, than it is to stand in people.

In certain circles, what does that mean? There's certain circles where a bunch of men live together, and when these men live together, they are like, you sit on the fucking toilet. You don't stand up and piss. Those kind of circles. Sure. I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Would you think it's weird if you walked in and your dude was sitting down to pee? I've seen a dude do that before. You have? Yeah. Why? You probably had to poop after. How do you know when it's an appropriate time to sit and pee or stand and pee? Like, what if you're standing and peeing, then you're like, oh, I got to go to the bathroom. Then you turn around and sit down. Why not just start in one place?

You know, I mean, when you go to the bathroom, you know if you're going one or two. You do? Yeah. Do you not? You're sitting down and you're like, I don't. also like your body can only like do one or the other my body at least can only do one or the other it can't go at the same time not like the exact same time huh i don't know you've never had to like fart while you're peeing all right all right everybody thanks for listening next hey hey next time you have to fart go sit down and start to pee and see if you

can fart while I don't fart. You let me know. Do you fart? What are you guys? You don't. You don't. We didn't do a question yet. You do not.

All right. Here we go. Advice on waiting until marriage. Don't do it. This is a 19 year old male and a female. Hey guys. My boyfriend is Catholic and I'm not. We're in love.

Everything is great. but he was raised religious and thinks that sex should totally wait until marriage. And while I'm not opposed to the idea, I have only heard complaints and regrets from people, especially women that have waited until marriage, saying that you need to check if you and your partner are sexually compatible. Have you and your partner had any discussions like that? Did you wait until marriage?

And do you have any regrets or advice? I think it would be important to me if I was going to marry someone to experience intimacy with that person prior. I agree. You do. 100%. Oh, so you would never marry someone unless you boned them. Yes, correct.

Oh. I'm not even talking about, I'm just saying like any form of intimacy. Yes. Yes. Sure. As long as you're exploring together things, so not everything is a surprise. Like once you're married, now you're getting to know that person, like physically. Because sometimes that's not compatible.

Right. Like, in intimacy with a relationship, just penetration. Rachel said this. It's his favorite word. Favorite word. Every time you hear Rob, safety. Say penetration. Penetration is only a portion of your sexual relationship with someone.

I agree. It's a segment of it. I mean, it's maybe a high percentage of it, but not the only, and not the only important piece either. Yeah, I think that your compatibility is a lot wider than just that. Yep. And that you probably would know. Well, like some people wouldn't be able to orgasm from penetration.

So they're doing it other ways. Yeah, but I think that that's something. If you love someone and you're compatible in all these ways, I think that that's part of the journey is like if you guys have to figure that out together, you have to figure it out together. You're going to have to figure out a lot together if you marry someone. And there's maybe something fun about saving that piece for marriage. I wouldn't be against it.

Like, I personally already had a child with my husband before we got married. But I wouldn't, like, if I met the love of my life and he was like, I'm really, like, this is something that really matters to me. I would respect that. I would be like, you must fuck me. But also, you wouldn't, like, we can't do anything. Like, we can only kiss. Well, that's chemistry. And you can know things just by kissing someone.

So you'd marry someone. And if you haven't. Side unseen. Yeah. Just kissing. And the whole emotional relationship. This bitch would go on love is blind. She would be like, yes. Have you ever, here's a question. Have you ever thought you really liked someone and then hooked up with them and was like, oh, that's not there?

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you have? Yeah. Oh. Fair much. You can not have chemistry with someone. For sure.

That's happening me. Multiple times. I don't know if that's ever happened to me. That's so interesting. Like, I'm just trying to think back of, like... Like, you can get into it no matter what. I don't know if I've ever, like, hooked up with someone. There was, like...

That's not in rough. I'm just trying to think... Well, there hasn't been times where you're just, like, doing it to do it, but you're not, like, into it. Because that's kind of what you're saying, essentially, right? No, she's saying the opposite. She's saying she's always into it. That's what I mean. I'm just saying, I don't know if I've ever thought I liked someone.

Like, oh, I like this person and then hooked up with them and been like, ooh, never mind, that's not there. I don't think that's ever happened. Must be nice. I mean, I don't understand what I don't. I guess the difference for me is like the people I'm thinking about that I hooked up. I didn't actually like like. Maybe that's the difference.

Yeah. What I'm saying is like, I've never thought like I liked. this person. Yeah. And then hook up with them and be like, oh, no, I don't. Yeah. Do you, do you not think you can be emotionally compatible with someone and not sexually compatible with someone? Hmm. No. I think, I mean, I think I've, you can definitely be sexually compatible with someone you are not emotionally compatible with. It's happened the opposite with you that you've. Yes. Yes. Okay. That has happened where it's like, oh, I don't like you. But do you, but do you, were good at this. But that is, there is compatibility there. But I've never had it where I thought I liked someone and then, right. I don't know.

I feel like if you think you like someone, there's usually some sort of draw there, you know? Mm-hmm. But you guys are saying you have had that. Well, I just said that it's usually people that I didn't really like, but I just wound up hooking up with were the ones where I was like, unsure. Yeah, that's different. So, you're going to get to the point. where you marry someone, you usually think you're going to, you like them or love them, right?

Well, I guess so for you, have you liked, yeah, have you liked someone? You didn't really answer the question then if you are saying you didn't like those people. Is there a situation where you like someone a lot? You thought there was something there, and then you had, you got intimate with them and then it killed it. I think I like them because the chemistry is there and that translates. See? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you're saying that has happened to you, where you thought you liked someone and then you hook up and you're like, oh, maybe not. Mm-hmm.

Hmm. Interesting. That is interesting. It just wasn't, you just weren't feeling. I'm trying to go in my mind. Think of you had bad sex before. Someone that you liked. Someone not good at sex.

Hold on. I mean, sure. But like, did I like them? Yeah, you were able to get over their performance. because you liked them enough. I don't think I've ever had bad sex. I've written some funny stories over sexual experiences. I don't know what's wrong with me.

I think you could have been entering... Picky. Sex in a way that you needed. But you've also just fooled around and had one-night stands. I've only had one-night stand in my life. And it was very intentional. You know what I mean? Anytime I've attempted a one-night stand.

Yeah. They still text me to this day. That's what I'm saying. I only had one proper one where the guy was from Italy, never saw him again. Part of that is maybe expectations, though. Like, you knew going into that that was... I can remember one experience, like you're at, like, I could think like, oh, that wasn't... That wasn't good.

That was not pleasant. Do so. Was it a one-off? Or did you try it again being like, we'll see? I think I tried it again, but then we did. wind up actually, like, having sex, but maybe hooking up again. Okay. If I, in my memory's a little iffy, but I'm pretty sure.

Right. Someone like you. I know. To have a bad memory, not to. But I was, like, younger, you know, it was like. I'm just so curious. I have so many questions. Like, what makes it bad?

Yeah. You know? Yeah. Makes it bad. Yeah. But, like, also, I think to your point, like, I don't think that I typically was drawn to do that with people that there wasn't some sort of chemistry with. You know?

I wasn't just like, hey, you take a walk on the wild side. Yeah. Do do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, all right. We covered a lot. So much. Do you just fart? No, it's my chair. Thanks, guys.

This was really educational. This is a good. This is a good one. Love you. Love you. Bye. Bye. That was a HeadGum podcast.