Broad Ideas with Rachel Bilson & Olivia Allen - Spirals and Success with Jeff Hiller

Episode Date: February 16, 2026

Rachel and Olivia chat with Jeff Hiller about overthinking spirals, honoring your accomplishments, and the constant pull toward the next dream. Then, Rachel, Olivia, and Leah close things out with their January Book Club pick, “Three Women.”Watch the video of this episode here!Like the show? Rate Broad Ideas 5-Stars on Apple Podcasts and SpotifyAdvertise on Broad Ideas via Gumball.fm See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a Headgum podcast. Hax is back for its fifth and final season, and so is The Hacks podcast. Join the Hacks creators and showrunners, Lucia and Yello, Paul W. Downs, and Jen Statsky as they unpack the Emmy-winning comedy series. On each episode, here's stories from the set, what goes on in the writer's room,

and how these beloved characters close out their final season. Watch Hax streaming exclusively on HBO Max and listen to The Hax podcast, on HBO Max or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, Rachel. Hey, Olivia. Hey, Kevin. Hi.

Jeff Hiller's here today. Oh, I'm excited. Let's get into it. Let's do it. You have a really pretty skin. I don't know how often. Yeah. Has anyone told you that lately?

No. It's really good. I think I did do that like Zoom touch-up thing, so maybe grain of salt. Oh. Yeah. I will be doing that from here on out. I did not know. Such things existed.

No, it's pretty. We were just discussing people who can't see and are only listening with your ears. We're in L.A. and I am in a down puffer. And Jeff is in New York. In a teacher. In a sun drenched room. San drenched California shambray. Svigrette.

Spaghetti strap situation. It's true. Thank. Yes. Hi. Hi. we love you to all the people listening with only their ears as well yeah do you ever listen i mean you can listen with your eyes my son does it all the time oh he really does yeah he really does

i believe that yeah you better how old is your son he's seven but he's partially deaf so he actually does he does take him more with his eyes oh that's so cool it is Yeah. Seven years old. What an opener. Yeah, we like to just open with like the most. I think it's beautiful actually. It is.

It's about like being authentic to you and it's about your specialness and about your truth and about what makes you unique. Yeah. I think that's beautiful. Well, that's why you're here to speak about your truth. And your, what makes you unique? Your uniqueness. It's so cool. You came out with your own memoir, which, first of all, what an accomplishment.

What a title. What a title. I was listening to an interview you did and there was something, was there a typo on your book cover? Yeah. And is. I assume there still is. Well, yeah. They've rewrapped some of them, because it was on the cover.

On the cover. It was on the spine of the book. The book is called Actress of a Certain Age. And on the spine, it's, I'm looking at it right now, Actress of a Satane Age. Oh. There's no honor. Oh, wow.

And you know, for the people who, yeah, who want to hear with their eyes. Yes. Here with their eyes. This is that actress of a Oh, my God. Wait, but that's kind of amazing. Yeah, I guess.

I'm far enough past it now to be like, how fun, how funny. But in the moment, in the moment there was some stess. Oh, I'm sorry, stress. I left off the R. Your brain works really fast. Yeah, we love fast brains. So, I mean, okay, so you get past. that but I'm just really taking in the like you were like really fatigued by my brain and I

apologize no I just was like God I want that is the quality in life I aspire to a fast brain yeah okay yeah and I aspire to be like hot to each his own to each Yeah, grass is always greener. That's right. That is so funny. That is so funny. So you, you know, talk about your journey from, you know, wanting to be in this business and everything else starting out. And then it took, I don't know, maybe a year or two, two.

Yeah, yeah, a year or 24. Or 24. but we want to just hear about your journey and like how the whole thing because and I'm just going to say a lot of people have these dreams and aspirations to either be hot or quick thinking or to succeed at what they want to do and we just love hearing how hard no no but yes we do it's it's but it's anything and it doesn't just have to be in this business or whatever but it's always like such a cool or beautiful or messy story that we'll enjoy. When was the last time either of you had like a day job? Not like a job that you're like, it's an acting job that I'm doing for the money,

but like a day job where you're like, did you ever have to have one? Or we need? She didn't. Yes, I did. You hosted a hostess for one week. Not a week. How long?

I don't know, but I was a hostess at a restaurant called CISLY. Hold on. spelled S-I-S-L-E-Y, bringing it all back to spelling. And I was a hostess when I was 18. Was it like, what? Was it like a gay guy's Italian restaurant? We're like, Cicely. Cicely.

Cicely. Cicely. Yeah, why was it? I don't know. That wouldn't even see, quick brain. I wouldn't have even caught that. Really? Never.

Well, I'm dyslexic. So, you know. There's that too. We can get into that later. So you were 18 and you were at a, the hostessing thing is hard because that's where the people are, did people try and bribe you to get a table at Sis? Sisley was very popular. And no, I, it did, you know what I will say? You're front of house, as they say, right?

And people come in and you have to like act a little bit, you know? Like you're happy to be there. So happy and like take them the long way by the design. dessert case, so they're going to want to buy that after. And like it's, there was a lot to it. A lot to it. But that was mine at 18. Yes.

Okay. So it's been a minute. Mine went on and on and on and on. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. I started working at what, 16. And then I think my last like job-a-dy job was probably that ended when I was 30, So, yeah.

So yesterday? So yeah, yesterday. Same. Same girl, same. Okay, and you. Bring us to you. Yeah. Okay.

So, well, mine was, I was teaching improv during the pandemic. So. Yeah. So, you know, a little longer than that. But, yeah. So I did want to be, yeah, an actor. Like, since I was. I'm sure like you, like four years old or whatever.

Yeah. Oh, this is me. This is who I am. And so, but I didn't know anybody who had done that. And I grew up in Texas and I thought like you had to be like, I don't know, on the Disney Channel or be able to like, I don't know, like have somebody be like, you. I found you. Yeah, exactly. You sipping the soda.

Come on. Come on Hollywood. And nobody ever saw it. I would always be like, trying to sip really dramatically. But that didn't work. And so I was also, I grew up in the church. So I went to a church college, like a churchy college.

It was like a, it was an act. They taught science. It wasn't like a Bible college. But, but, but, and I majored in like theology. And I was going to be a pastor. But then. Oh, wow. And then I was all gay, and so I couldn't do that.

All kinds of gay. Exactly. I was seriously. And so I went to social work. I went to social work. And I did like an AmeriCorps program. And I did that for a few years. And then I told everyone I was moving to New York to get my master's in social work.

But instead, I just deferred for a year. We're on the year like 26 at this point. And I started. I started taking classes at the UCB Theater and I worked day jobs. I waited tables. I worked in, you know, offices as like an assistant and I taught improv and I coached improv and I did stand up and I would try and like get together a little nut every month and to play my rent. And then it wasn't until I booked the pilot for somebody somewhere, which is that show I was on.

And I was like, when we found out we got picked up, I was like, I'm not going to, I'm not going to sign up to teach this next class. I'm wild. And we got picked up on March 6th, 2020. And we started shooting the episode two on June 1st, 2021. So there was like 18 months of like, oh, I should have taken that class. So then I would coach via Zoom. Yeah. Do, you know, dumb, you know, all the stuff that we did, like on Zoom during the pandemic,

trying to make a little cash. And then I haven't had to have a day job since then, which has been very nice. Yeah. Two important questions. Okay. Do you feel you can actually teach someone improv? Oh, that is a good question. Especially for a teacher.

He's like, who never thought of that? No. I think that there's kind of like a more complicated answer than that, which is that you can help someone become better at improv, but there are, there is like a small group of people who are just really never able to let go of that need for control that you need to let go of in order to improv. It's smaller than you think. It's a small. Everyone's like, oh, I'd be that person.

And I don't think that you necessarily would. Like, I think you have to give up a little bit of control just to be an actor and a scripted piece, too. Sure. And I think you could morph that into being on stage and, and improvise. But it is, there is, there is like a small group of people that I'm like, this, you're never going to. This isn't for you. And their names are. Yeah.

He pulls out the list. Yeah. Who do you think? Could you just name top three best improvers of all time? Oh. Oh. I don't know. I'm just, you know, I'm winging it.

I'm improvving it. Yes, and. Amy Polar is damn fine. Yes. She's like the real deal. Like you get out of the way it's going to happen. Then, I mean, it's subjective. you know.

It's not like, sure. And I tend to only like, not only, I tend to like women. We get it. We understand. We understand.

Male comedians are scary. A little bit. We've heard this. Oh yeah, I would say like this guy, Joe Wengert, who you probably don't know, he's really more of a writer.

Yeah? Yes. He's amazing. He is amazing. And he, I would, he is, he is the

owner of a wide chromosome and he is very funny and someone I could watch for hours upon hours and then I'm trying to think of like famous people

that you would actually know you could also just say the ones that aren't and give him a little moment give him a shout out yeah okay there's a guy named Connor Ratliff who's really like kind of amazing

another nod from Kevin Yeah. There's a woman named Shannon O'Neill who is like a like a bomb went off. I love it. And then person who, I don't even know if he does improv anymore, but he was my favorite person to watch always was a guy named Birch Harms, who was one of these people who had a mind that you're like, I don't get how that mind works at all, but I'd love to spend a couple weeks inside it. I know the feeling. Yeah, yeah. He was like, he was someone who, one time we did this really long scene where everyone was talking over him. And we were at a Thanksgiving dinner. And we were just talking for probably like 10 minutes, just everybody talking, trying to steal focus themselves.

And he was just completely silent. And finally, somebody said, like, what's your deal? You haven't talked at all. And he just looked up and he goes, what? And he like, mimed taking off headphones. That's so good. It was like a 10 minute long prep to do it. And it was just like, this is magic.

This is magic. That is amazing. My second question was, did you watch the Mickey Mouse Club as a child? That is so important. That is such an important question. I was very well aware of it. And then even in my 20s, I was very well aware of like the people that were on it that became superstars. Yeah.

Everyone's seen the Jake. T. Brittany Spears duet. Come on. And the Ryan Gosling to get down. And you know, Jessica Simpson, like, got really close in the auditions or whatever. Oh, but then there's like the Kids Incorporated, which... That was my favorite. I did watch

Kids Incorporated. You didn't love it? No, I loved it. I feel like Jennifer Love Hewitt, Fergie. Sarah. Yeah. Fergie. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, I just feel like as a kid aspiring to be, you know, discovered or stuff in your soda. You're watching Mickey Mouse

Club. My parents were cruel and we did not have the Disney Channel. I only saw it at my neighbor's house, but like I got to tell you, I'd be like, y'all shut up. I got to watch. Yeah, it was like the dream. Yeah, it really was. Yeah, because everybody got to sing and dance and they wore stupid costumes. It was fun. The new show for that, you know, for kids. No, not at all like that. But the show that's making kids want to be actors now is stranger things. What? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

It's a thing. Well, my kid doesn't watch Stranger Things. Your kid doesn't watch Stranger Things. Okay, maybe it's just my kid and all his friends. But other people have told me it's making their kids want to act. I love the comparison between the Mickey Mouse Club and Stranger Things. Right, I know. Stranger Things is kind of scary, though, isn't it?

You guys, it's really scary. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's like, that makes me want to do it. And, like, when we were kids, we're like, yeah. Get on. on your feet, you know? Well, they want to act out that the Demi Gordon's coming to get them. And they're, do you know what I mean?

You're in the upside down or whatever? They're in the upside down. It's like a fun fantasy thing for kids and adults. Do you want to hear this? This is such a tangent, but I'm just going to tell you. Please, we love tangents. One of, because I was in show choir and one of the girls in our show choir was like fancy. And she did like community theater and she did these like, because I grew up in San Antonio

and she would do these, like, shows at the River Center Mall, which is the mall downtown. And we would go down and watch her. And one time she was singing, get on your feet. And she, like, went out into the audience. And she was, like, singing directly this woman in a wheelchair and just, like, put her arm and singing, get on your feet. Stop it.

Stop it. The whole time I was like, oh, I don't think she gets it. Oh, my God. That needs to be a. seen. I'm sorry. That's good. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. And where is she now?

I don't know what she's not doing improv. Yeah, exactly. I said to her afterwards, I was like, oh, that was kind of awkward, huh? And she's like, nobody thought that. And I was like, everybody thought it. Everybody. Everybody here. Wait a minute. What about the people that have that layer of denial? Do you ever see that and go, God, give me that? Yes.

You're like, how do you do that? I know, I know. I would still be spirited about that. She was like, not even 10 minutes later. She's like, oh, nobody's thinking that. A hundred percent. Yeah. Oh, my God.

I'm texting you like, well, what about when I, you know? Oh, no, we still do from like 30 years ago. I wake up in the middle of the night being like, why did I say that? Oh my God. What I said was like, your glasses are cute. And then I'm like,

maybe she thinks that her old glasses weren't cute. Oh my God, no. I do that about things I say to my dog. Shut up. I'm dead. Wait, what? I'm like, oh my God, I hope it's okay. Because I did it like this,

but now she's going to be all fucked up and she's going to hate people. And then she's going to like, it's like, oh, I do that. Yes, not so much about what I've said to her, but like if I've done. Because my dog, too, is like, I didn't even have a kid. So she's just like.

I thought you were going to be like, I don't even have a dog. And I do that. She just has to receive a lot of my care. And I have a cat, too. And I'm always like, oh, God, I wonder if they hate the new food I got. I mean, she scarfed it down. But I don't know. Maybe it's not as good for her bones.

I don't know. I do that too. The spirals are so real. Wait, but do you remember the embarrassing things your friends have done? because I hold hers for her. What? What embarrassing things? Like when you had a crush on a guy and he was like, what are you doing for Halloween?

And you were like, when's Halloween? And he's like, October 31st. That's not embarrassing. Or what was the Woothing thing? Oh, they were like, this guy said to me once. I was like 18, okay? It's just fun to remind her of remember when you were like, when's Halloween?

He was like, if I could be anybody. in the world that you want right now. Who would I be? And I was like, I don't know, method man. I don't see anything embarrassing about that. Right? It's so good. It's so good.

Wait, have you been friends since you were like kids? Yeah. Yeah. Ah, that's fun. It is so fun. Do you have friends like that? Do you have friends? You have a dog and a cat and a husband?

That's it. I go to my husband too. He counts. I do have some, yeah, some friends that I've been friends with for, yeah, a really long time. Yeah. That's good. Good. You see it's very somber.

I know. Yeah. I was like, do I have friends? Is that real? Tonight I'll wake up and be like, I don't have any friends. I know. You're spiraling. Like, it's probably because I said this on November 17th, 1987.

Oh, that was a bad one. No. But it's so true, you know, I just, and I don't spiral over the embarrassing things. Those are just funny that you hold for me. Yeah, those are just funny. I hold some for her too, but she doesn't like to be reminded of hers because hers are way worse. Those are deeply painful tragedies. That's not just saying.

She's like, remember that time? We won't talk about it. What? I'm just kidding. I wanted to know. There's some good ones, but I've brought them up too many times. I'll get, she'll get mad. But, it's.

It's important to hold space for your friends moment. It is. It is. And it's also fun to laugh. It is fun to laugh. When your friend doesn't remember what Halloween is. Yeah. But you know, the spiraling thing, can we just collectively just talk about it?

Do we think it's just as you get older, it gets worse, or is it always there? You know, like, do some people, some people just don't have it, right? Which I don't understand. at all. Well, I think they just don't really... Access it. I shouldn't be putting this on you, but I think for me... No, put it on me.

No, it's okay. We're one now. I mean, okay, good. I just, in the world, I want to be someone who is liked and who makes the world better and makes the world safe for people. Yeah.

And that is a value that I hold sort of top tier. And you can, you could make a case that that's a good thing. You could make a case that that's a bad thing. we're not even going to assign a judgment to it, but that's just mine. And I think there are a lot of people who are like, that's not my job to make you feel better. That's my husband. He doesn't have it in it. Your husband's not waking up at 7 or 6 a.m. and being like, why did I say that? You know? No. Yeah, that's true. Not once. That's crazy. Everybody's different.

I feel like mine's gotten exponentially better as I've gotten older. Really? A hundred percent. Is it the medication? It's not on medication. I know, I'm just kidding. I think it's also not drinking. I used to wake up every day and go, what did I say to who? What should I be embarrassed about? What did I say? What did I do? And that's when I tell her. And then tell her what she said. Yeah. Yeah. Like a good friend. Right. I would be like, and then. You think that one's bad. What? You hear what you did at 11. Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. That makes total sense. And I think I have I have friends who when they had kids, they have a lot more anxiety.

But I guess it's less about why did I say that and more about it's more like, oh my God, they're going to die. That's what it is. Or I'm going to fuck them up or I'm going to fuck them up or they could. Not that they're going to die. See, I said that and I'm like, oh my God, I just said that. And does that mean I just put something out there. Right.

Like it's just, it does not stop. That I can relate to. The spiraling over the children. The spiraling over the like health and well-being of, yes. Oh, everything. do. Do you know how many times I have to talk to my daughter and be like, okay, so when mommy said that, I really, I'm just, I want you to understand what I was feeling and it has nothing to do with you, nothing to do with like the reassurance is so, but it's also like it's just out there now, how much parents communicate. I feel like in the 80s, at least in my experience, you know, there wasn't as my, I mean, my mom is an over communicator, so actually that's not totally true. But it's just more of a thing. thing that's talked about now. Mm-hmm.

See, and me, I'm like, don't be a little bitch to my kid. And then I never think of it again. And if he says something, I don't be like, well, don't be a little bitch. I mean, I wonder if it's a difference between having sons or daughters. Probably. You each just have one? I have two boys. I have one girl.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Well, okay. That, I mean, I'm not a parent. So I don't know anything.

Well, you have a dog and a cat. Yeah. And that makes me an expert. But I do, because I don't have kids, I listen to a lot of self-help podcasts because I have the time. And I was listening to Brunee Brown talk about raising kids. And she was saying that she's a Gen X person and she's raised Gen Z kids. And so she was of that first generation to be like growing up with parents being like, you just need to figure it out.

And then like she was that first generation to be like, I need to make it safe for you. I need to make it all right for you. And she was saying that the important thing to do is to eliminate trauma but not struggle. Yes, 100%. That the kid still needs to have to know what it's. like to have to call to order a pizza or whatever. I guess you don't call anymore. That's a struggle? Actually, it is a struggle for me. Well, I think for certain kids, it's like, I'm embarrassed. I don't want to talk on the phone or I'm too scared to even learn how to drive.

And some of the parents are like, okay, you just won't, you don't drive then. And, and the, and it's, so it's important to be like, I'm not going, I'm going to keep you in a car seat so that I don't, so you don't cause trauma to them. Yes. But I'm not going to say, You don't want to do your homework, then I'll do it for you. Yes, exactly. Right. What's the swimming analogy? I couldn't agree more.

The swimming thing where she was saying something to her husband. What I'm hearing you say is. That's it. Yes. I love her. I love her so much. And I love self-help. I'm a big fan.

I really am. But I think that you just gave us us as a and we're one person too, an idea for a new show. We should have a show where we only have people that don't have children give us advice on parenting. That's amazing. I'm serious. I think that's smart because we as parents can't see straight. You're out there being like, look, it's so simple.

Yeah. You know what I mean? I got plenty of sleep except for when I spiraled for about half an hour, but then I just slept in. Yeah, exactly. Wait, and you're our first guess. Yeah, how does it feel? You started this whole new revolution. I just want to say thank you.

You're welcome. Get on your feet. You know who you look like you could be brothers with in this? Do you know who Scoot McNary is? No, but I love Scoot's name. You should feel you'll love Scoot as an actor. He's absolutely incredible. Oh.

But you'll look him up. You look like you could be like in the eyes. You could be his brother. Hmm. Do you see what I mean? I do see what you mean. You're like side Googling. Yeah.

You can Google him. You're going to. It's a good one. He's a good one. It is a good one. Scoot. What's his last name? McNary.

McNeary. Oh. Like your eyes. He came up so quickly. Not many scutes out there. Oh, he's like, he looks like very. Awesome. Like a dramatic actor, like a very like handsome dramatic actor.

He is. You're like, how does that feel? Your reaction. Like you've made a mistake. But I'm not mad at it. Oh, God, look at his. Oh, my God, he's been in so much. And he's always like got a cigarette or a gun hanging out of his.

Wow. It's so impressive. Isn't that what you always felt like? That's what we're giving. You didn't know. Every time I get cast in a roll It's like, am I going to need a gun, a cigarette, or both? Oh my God

Okay, so you The show, how many seasons of the show did you do? Just three. Oh, why do you say it like that? Yeah, because you want to keep going. Because, yeah, I want to keep going. Yeah. Yeah, it's such a good show.

Thank you. You welcome. You welcome. And so now, What are you doing? What's happening over there? Well, I'm doing, I'm, this is not, I don't mean to sound insulting, but I'm doing a lot of podcasts. I'm doing a lot of like, I, because, you know, I won like an award and stuff.

So I was like, oh, I think maybe this will mean I get another job. Like, if you get an award, don't you get another job? Right. Yeah. So far I haven't gotten another job, but I've gotten a lot of meetings. Yeah. I've never been on so many meetings. And, you know, I'm living in the hope of something.

I've done a couple guest star roles. Yeah. Yeah. We'll see. Can we talk about how do you feel about talking about the psychology of it? Because I'm very curious as someone who has worked your entire life to achieve something. And then once achieving it, what happens to the brain then? That is a great question.

question that I refuse to answer. What's funny, because I was doing another podcast and the host said, so now you've peaked. And I was like, well, I don't, I hope I didn't peek. You didn't peek? Because that means you go down after. No, no, no, right now. I hope this is like the breakthrough.

And I can continue to work. I think, I guess as a kid, I did have like, family. of like what it would be like to hold the statute and talk and say thank you. And, um, but like as an adult that really wasn't the big dream was just like getting health insurance and and not having to work a day job. Yeah. Um, and so now like also like when I got that award, I really had convinced myself that there was no way I could win because I mean, not the least of which, because people told me explicitly this isn't, you're not going to win, but this is such a big deal. What a compliment. Well, and I think that they were,

Yeah. Right. I think they were right because it I was, and it was like a very stacked category or whatever. And I think I also sort of, like I did think like I would get a job right away. And it's been like a few months and I haven't yet. And so I think I was writing in my journal this morning being like, I just need to have patience.

And also I sometimes obsessed about my career to sort of not think about. Yeah. Personal life. Sure. Sure. It's like a really fun way to disassociate. But I also, like, I didn't get an Emmy and think like, now I have self-esteem, you know? Right.

I was still like, oh, yeah. It's probably a pity Emmy. Well, because anyone does that. Any, yeah. Right. To get an Emmy. Yeah. But no, but everyone definitely does the.

it was probably a mistake or whatever like the you know negative or self deprecating or whatever it is like it's never like well I'm not saying everybody I know people that are like yeah I deserve it yeah that's true that's true I think that's healthy I think that's

I'm not trying to shit on that I think that's like good for them that they feel that way yeah I don't know how they do it because I can't relate but it is you know but it is interesting you know you win an Emmy and you're still like well I've done guest it's just kind of like so fuck you know.

I know. And that is the thing that I have to really remind myself is that like there isn't some place. Magic. Yeah. There's not a place. There's not like a, I did it. Yeah.

I'm done. Like it. And I don't even think that's just about showbiz or acting. I think it's just about life, you know. There are peaks. There are valleys. There are, you know, and this was a peak. And it's not the peak, though.

No. It's not the peak. It's up peak. Yeah. I appreciate you saying that. Thank you. It's a peak. You're the Rockies on the way up.

Exactly. But I do think, too, it's kind of like there's certain people, and I don't think everyone's like this. And I think it's certain people that are drawn to this industry in particular that always, even if you achieve a dream, there's another one waiting to take its place. Yeah. Right? And that's kind of part of it.

Yeah. And I think that can be, again, I think that can be healthy and unhealthy. Agreed. I think like you kind of want, you don't want to be like, well, I achieve my goal. Now I'll just roll over and die. Right. One, I still have things that you're working towards. But I also think if you, if you reach this goal and you don't take the moment to celebrate it or to, you know, feel gratitude for it, then you're going to just shrivel up into a little prune. not be not be very happy at all yeah yeah what are dreams that you have that you're not like i mean

well since you've peaked probably there's nothing left but he's like did you not here i've already achieved you're like i did them all there's nothing left nothing left but are there any things that you have that you you know that aren't related to maybe show business or whatever. Well, I would like to make enough money to buy a little house in the country that I get to decorate myself. Oh, what, where?

Like upstate New York. Like Hudson Valley or Cat skills or something. Yes, yeah, cat skills. Oh, I'd love it in the mountains. I think that'd be fun. The dream would be a beach house, but like, I don't know, with climate change, it just feels like that's, you're asking for trouble.

Very practical in your dreaming. Very practical. Yeah, we like a practical dreamer. I can't turn it out. And I'd like to, like, host my nephews and my sister for the holidays and have like a yard for the dog. And, you know, in my dream, it's like a chalet stuff. You know how in all centers? They're always like, I like the Cape Cod, but I want a colonial.

I always used to be like, who thinks about that? Don't you just look for the right house? But now I'm like, no. I want a chalet style. I want a loft for my cat to be able to be on and look down. And I want a double height ceiling with a lot of natural light. You know, some bold patterns on the pillows. Yeah.

And maybe even an accent wall or two. I don't know. We'll see. We're just doing your vision board here. So we're just helping. That's why you come. You come to give us advice about children, and we then in return hold division for you. I love it.

You guys, when I went to school, they did this exercise where they're like, you're going to go forward X amount of years and you're going to write a letter to yourself. And you're going to kind of vision all the things you've achieved and talk about specifics, like your home and what it's like and this and that. You guys? You found the letter? No. I've already achieved it. Because in it, this is how sad this is. I was like, I will have the house that always has toilet paper stocked.

I will have cozy blankets. Like, I was so far from being able to visualize a big life that to me, in my big vision, it was to be someone that has toilet paper stocked. Well, did you grow up where you were always like, oh, no, there's no, toilet paper? Yeah. There was like three or four. What would you use? Paper towels sometimes, like whatever.

It was never, and I'd always be like, and when I first started dating my husband, he'd be like, why don't you get like a big thing of toilet paper? And I'm like, what? What? Like it made me uncomfortable. I was like, that's for rich people. I had dream that big. Yeah, exactly.

Like, that is out of my grasp. You know what's interesting, though? I never buy the big thing a toilet paper or paper towels. Okay, that's weird. I don't know why. Why? I don't know. Maybe there's something in there.

I can't imagine what it is. Do you not have like a big linen closet or something that you can store it in? Maybe it's a storage issue. She's got the room. I don't know what it. She's got the room. She's got the room. I think it's just like these big, it's just like big and cumbersome.

And like the cart, where do you put it? There's not really, underneath, maybe. It's also a little bit embarrassing to be like, I'm buying the 24 pack and people are just like, man, how much do you wipe? Maybe that's what it is. Like, I just need the littlest amount of toilet paper. Little of me grabbing myths. It's really just to wipe up messes. But it's true.

Like, I don't know what the psychology behind it is, but I never do. That's funny because now I've got multiple value packs like stocked in the garage and I'm like, I made it, guys. There's nowhere but up. Are you, this is the most L.A. question I can ask. But are you a cancer? No. I'm a Libra. Libra.

What are you? You like balanced. Balance. I'm a Sagittarius. I don't really know much about astrology, but I do know that cancer's really love to have a toilet paper. Toilet paper. That is like the home is like comfort and space and a room where that can feel very safe.

And I thought, well, maybe you like to have. Why do you know? I only know that because my best friend is a cancer. And she's like, she's kind of like you where she's just like, no, I, I, I, I, I make sure and like, you know, buy things cheap. Like when I'm buying food or whatever, but like when it's about the home, I go for the cushy toilet paper. I go for the, me too. The really nice down comfort or I go, you know what I mean? Yes.

As opposed to like, whatever, getting IKEA pillows. She gets like. She gets them good. Yeah. IKEA pillows. That's an uncomfortable pillow. Is it? I've done it before in my young days, and they are not comfortable.

That was another thing. I have good pillows. I think that is like a real life's too short situation. It is. I used to always like, I mean, I know you don't drink anymore, but like when I would be in my 20s, I would get like the $9 bottle of wine. Oh, yeah. I'm like, I don't drink that wine that much anymore because it's traumatic. But when I do, I'm like, if I'm going to drink wine,

I'm going to get like the $50 bottle at least because I'm like, I don't, I don't, I don't, life is too short to have I keep myself a headache. And you're probably, yeah, I was going to say, and the better wine isn't going to give you a headache. Exactly. So that is valuable. It's, it's saving you money on the Advil. We're just teaching so many lessons.

It's just like, same with fast fashion. Fast fashion. How do you feel about it? Yeah, what? Well, in the same way that I, I'm afraid of my. beach house getting washed away. I'm worried about the fast fashion just stacking up like icebergs in the, in the ocean. Yeah.

And so, yeah, I, I, I, I've made a, I now, I don't buy new. I only buy vintage or like from. Is that right? The real real real or, yeah. Oh, I like that. The real real love. Yeah. Love.

Things like that where you're like, I'm going to, I'm not going to go to whatever. No, where. anywhere. Zara. Yeah. And buy a shirt that is going to get a hole in it in. Yeah. Three wearings.

That's my new thing. I'll say it. You're safe here. Put that on my vision board, too. Non-Zara. Wait, the Bad Bunny's outfit at the Super Bowl. His outfit was from Zara? Yeah.

It was custom Zara. Okay. Well, when I go to Zara, I'm not buying custom Zara that Bad Bunny's buying. I did like it, though. I thought it was like really avant-garde how the like the shoulders were so big and everything. I thought that was really like chic in addition to. I mean, I know that he had a lot more padding on his undercarriage than he normally does, which I thought was a shame, but I get it.

It's a family show. What do you mean he had more padding? I think normally when he does his dance. Yeah. They call it the dwork or whatever the day. Yeah. You can see more. You can see.

Wait, I'm sorry. Is that a little penis flick you're doing with your hand? For those. you who are listening with your ears. Wait, what? He does like penis flicking? I don't know. I feel like maybe I'm wrong.

No, I don't want to say anything more. Don't be wrong. We love Bad Bunny. We love to the halftime show. I thought it was fantastic. But I did too, but I think he normally does like some really sexy dancing. Okay. Okay.

It's a suggestive thing because his pants are thinner. There are some of those men that really rock the, I'm going to leave that word out. What? What do you mean rock the? They rock out with their blank out. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? No, I do.

Their rooster. I just wanted her to say it. I'm not going to say it. We've all seen John Ham and sweatpants. I mean, come on. Don't act like you haven't. And if you haven't, everybody's going to Google John Ham and sweatpants today. Oh, my God.

Who hadn't done that already? Right. Everybody's done it. And what's the guy who wrote Tropic Fender and he was in the leftovers? Oh, John. Thoreau. Justin Thoreau. Justin, Thoreau.

Justin, Thoreau. What? This is a thing? I have not heard this. It was in the leftovers. He's running with no shirt on and gray sweatpants. And it's flying free? I don't know how we got on this topic.

I'm going to wake up tonight being like, why was I talking about? He was people's d' dips. That's what happens, though. It's just what happens. You can't help it. Every day. Every conversation turns to dicks. Well, for me. He's going to be like, Luke,

why did you send me to those women who Luke, your managers? Do you know him? Yes. Because his aunt is my love, my life, my mentor, my woman. Oh, really? Yeah.

She's his aunt. His aunt is named Candice, and she is like just my person, like a second mom to me. Really? Yeah. That's so sweet. So sweet. And he's going to be listening and be like, why did you talk about flying dicks? Probably.

He actually's always like, eh, it's fine. Whatever. He never chastised me. He's like, yeah, just be you. Just be you. Okay. Question on that. On dicks or you being you?

Question how I'm flying. Dix. I've got answers on both. Yes. No. I do have a question on when did you give yourself permission? Did you ever? Have you always just been who you are? Or was there a moment where you're just like, fuck it? Yeah, there was a moment. Yeah. It was when I had like a midlife crisis when I turned 40. And I had like, because I wasn't working yet. And I was, I was, you know, I had credit cards. debt and I had been living in L.A., but my husband was in New York, and I basically, I kept thinking, like, as soon as I get a job out here, he'll move to L.A., but then I didn't get one for four years, so I kind of had to go back to New York with my tail between my legs. And then my mom died and my dad

got really sick. And so I was like, I can't try and be what other people want me to be. I'm just going to be me. I'm sorry. That's just what I'm doing. Yeah, it's fine. I mean, it was good, actually. You know, it's kind of a gift in a certain way. Yeah, of course.

It is exhausting to try and be what you think other people want you to be. And it's also so, like, you don't, nobody is ever like, you know who I'm obsessed with? That girl who's always worried about looking perfect. Yeah. You're never obsessed with that person. You might be like, oh, she had a cute skirt, but you're not going to be like, I'm passionate about her. That's why people love Oprah. That's why people love...

That's true. Whatever. Brine Brown or... Mel Robbins. All of them. Yeah. Yeah, you're like, I just feel like you are really being honest and true to who you are. And so even with your flaws, I'm going to really just be attracted to you.

Because also, when you share your flaws, it makes other people feel so much better, safer. 100%. Less alone. So share them. All of them. Go ahead. Well, if you're watching on YouTube, you've got about 20 just in this frame. No. You know, it's just like, I know I'm not like super put together when it comes to like being organized or the most, you know, I live in a one bedroom.

I have to do my laundry at a laundromat. I like it. It's embarrassing when you're like doing your laundry and people are like, didn't you just? Get an Emmy. See, but you're right. It's happened twice now. Has it? Yeah.

But that's comforting. And also like, I'm not mad at a laundromat. I'm not mad at a laundromat. And also there's so much power in your story. Because you actually have the ability to help and give people hope. Because think about all the people that think they're too old to do something or they're to this. or to all the stories that one says in their head. And you're sitting there saying,

I had all those stories and I did it. Right. And even if I hadn't done it in a way where I got a gold statue where I, or even like I was on a TV show that people had heard of, even if I were the seventh lead on a show like NCIS where I, Not even that. Like, that's fucking cool. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. If I were, if I were like on an improv show for free where I'm not making any money, but I am fulfilled. Right. I've kind of made it. Mm-hmm. And it's also about like telling yourself like this, like, for so many years, I was like, I'm so embarrassed.

I'm still doing improv. But it fulfilled me. And there were so many people that wanted to do improv that couldn't even get. under that stage to do it for free. And so I needed to feel gratitude and pride for even that. Right. And it's way better to win the gold standard. It is.

It is. No, you have a point in that. It's funny. I was talking to my friend who was my old nanny and she's really young. And her boyfriend came very young. They're not from here. They know nothing about this business at all. They live a totally different life.

And I said something along the lines of like, well, yeah, it's hard. my age to still be X, Y, and Z. And he looks at me and he goes, oh, I don't see it that way. He goes, what a privilege. He said, what a privilege that you get to pursue a dream. That alone is enough for anyone. And I was like, whoa, he's so right. What a privilege.

Were you a little bit like, you are so wise. Were you like, you're so wise. And also, shut up. easy for you to say Bitcoin and whatever you're investing in but just the privilege like you said even if you're not getting paid there's many people that have dreams in their heart

that they don't even have the means to put themselves in those classes or put themselves in environments that hold them and so that alone is a gift and the gold statue is one, two. It is. I want to feel gratitude for that.

100%. Yeah, but it all is. Absolutely. Such a good point, but also. Yeah, he made me feel like a real idiot. I totally would have been like, damn it, he's right and he's such a little know-it-all bitch. I know, totally.

First when you said she was my nanny, I thought you meant when you were a child. Oh, no, no, no, no, for my kids. Right, that makes more sense. You know, I feel like we should bring back for Jeff, what we used to do at the end of episodes. Fuck Mary Kill? Yeah.

Oh, that sounds like fun. Does that sound like fun to you? Sure. I like that. I miss that, actually. Yeah, but you have to come up with the people. All right. I got two right now.

John Hamm and Bad Bunny. Yes, ma'am. You little genius. Oh, you know. I know. Oh, and Justin Thoreau. There we go. Oh, we did it.

Oh, she. Okay. Okay. John Ham, Justin Thoreau, and Bad Bunny. Okay. I'm going to marry Bad Bunny. You have to. He's just too sweet.

And he's also funny. They're kind of all three are actually surprisingly funny. Very. And hot. Yep. That's a good one. Yeah. So I'm going to, I'll go with Bad Bunny, Mary.

I'd agree with that. And then can I just do a threesome and then kill somebody else? Okay, if you could kill anybody, who is it? Oh, no. I can't say that. Let's play that game. Federal laws. I, you know, I guess I would, uh, I guess I would.

Oh, I have it. Fuck, Mary, watch. so they don't get killed, they get to watch. Oh, we're going to change it. Yeah. I do. I actually like getting rid of kill because there's just too. The world does not need, let's just.

Yeah. All right. It's true. That's true. I really don't want to kill it. They're a neutral observer. I would. I guess I'd fuck Justin Thoreau and let Johnny.

Have you made me say? Why am I saying these things? I can't believe. I just said that on a podcast. Just killed somebody. I think of myself as a prude, but that just really, like, that touched the prude part of me. Oh, God. It's so good.

Oh, that's so good. Rachel, what would you do? No. Oh, yes. Oh, my God. It's so good. Okay, fine. Okay.

I'm just kidding. We need to leave it. That was just too epic. There's nothing that can trump. but that was really fun that was really fun that was thank you amazing for having me you are amazing outstanding thank you for playing with us thank you um tell lucas's aunt hello for me i will yes candace i'll see her tomorrow oh say hi candace i will for sure jeff you're the best jeff you are the best i wish you were here because you'd be our best

Fran. I wish I were too. It seems like it's nice and cozy there. I'd like to be there. Yeah, it is. It's 80 degrees out. All right. Well, thank you so much.

Oh, my God. Thank you for having me. Have a great day. Bye. Bye. Bye. Okay, so in this post, we are covering our book from, what month are we in? That was January, right?

Yeah. January was three women by Lisa Todaro. Yes. Yes. And that was Leah's selection. So Leah, why don't you tell us why you selected this book? I read this book a while back. It was recommended to me by a woman.

A, I love that it's a true story. You know how they say, you know, truth is stranger than fiction. Well, this book is a great example. I couldn't believe it was a truth to how different they are and just fall into each of them, even though I haven't really been through what any of them have been through, really fascinated with the stories. There are three separate stories.

They're also different, and they're so, they just brought up a lot of feelings for me personally. So, yeah, that's why I picked it in a nutshell. Yeah, so it followed, I think she said over eight years, she followed three different women, or it was their stories. There's one who is an underage high school student who has an affair with her teacher. there's a very unhappily married wife who revisits her first love from high school and has an affair and there's another married couple who invite other people in to watch and participate and participate yeah yeah so very three very different scenarios but a lot of fingering in all of them

I'm sorry, it's true. Because there was chunks where I was like, oh, my God, I need five minutes to listen to this in between reading. And then my mom was there. And I was like, I can't listen to this. Oh, no. Out loud because of that. You were listening to the audio book? Yeah, because I was like, I have to, like, in between reading in order to get it done on time.

And then I was like, and it would be like, he fingered. And I'm like, oh, my God, I got to turn this off because my mom's going to like it. that's really funny. Another thing, because we have said, you know, we have a bunch of people reading along with us, I feel like this is one of those books. Like, everyone should read this book. It's just, it's so interesting.

And it covers, like, female sexuality and the things that women deal with. And, you know, it's just, I don't know, I feel like it's a book that every woman should read men, too, for that matter. But I just like, it's always whenever somebody's like, hey, what, do the book recommendation? This is always my go-to. like, read three women.

And I've yet to meet somebody that's like, oh, what? So did you, did you watch the series they made after it? No, you know, I didn't. I get really funny about that. Yeah. I create things in my mind so vividly that when I watch the series, it tends to ruin it for me. So like, I, even with the Colleen Hoover one that they turned in a movie with like,

you know, had pictured it in my mind. Yeah. So it just didn't fit what I pictured when they made a movie. It always, I always feel disappointed. And it ruins kind of like the whole fantasy for me. So I tend to steer away from when I find a book that I love watching the movie, the only one I guess is. Oh, yeah, excellent.

Tends to not, you know, somewhere down the line I will. But what did you guys think of it? I mean, did you like the book? I'm curious if you guys liked it. Yeah, I mean, I loved the book. It was actually given to me like five or six years ago and, you know, recommended. And I just had never picked it up and actually read it. I loved every story.

I had a little bit of a hard time because it jumps, you know. And so with my brain, I'm like, wait, what happened last with that one? And then, you know, and like I had to like really think about it. So just like from a brain standpoint of having to jump around isn't the easiest for me. But I absolutely loved the book. I think it's so fucked up a lot of it, like what these women went through, how they're, you know, what they had to deal with. the Maggie like her whole storyline with the teacher and then oh my gosh I know like no one believed her that's so rough it's so rough it's so rough and it's so you guys I mean that's the thing it's true

you know it's like actually happened and happens probably a lot you know and it's like oh my heart yeah that was that was a tough one so you know all of them were tough even the fair like I just you know felt that so strongly, you know, and the married couple, like what she has to endure, it's just, it's so interesting, like, what the women kind of have to endure as opposed to the well, when Sloan is confronted by the wife of the last, you know. Jenny. Yeah, Jenny, who is Wes's wife, you know, just, and her not whole, knowing the whole story and I could feel for both of them, but I also wanted to be like, well, you know, they were

open and wanted to invite her in, like it could have just gone a different way. I know your faith, Olivia's face right now. She's like, what the fuck? But she didn't want that though. I know. But I'm saying like it was interesting to be on Sloan's side, but also understanding Jenny's perspective, of course. Like that's her husband.

I mean, that's the father of her children. But it was just so interesting to put yourself in all of the different shoes and relating to Lena with how hard she felt like for Aiden and like would do anything and like the desperation and heart wrenching. It was heart wrenching. Heart wrenching. Which character. Do you relate to them?

Do you relate to the most? Yeah. My soul probably, oh my gosh, I'm blank. The fair. What's her name, Rachel? Lena. Lena, probably Lena, I would say. For me personally, I just like my, you guys,

know me so you probably can guess what? Hmm. Uh, I think I would probably lean Lena a little bit, but I don't know. I don't know. I can't know. I can't

pick one. I, there's a little bit of me and all of them. I think so too. Yeah. I do. I think there's a relatable quality to each one, even though the circumstances of life are different, but. Yeah. I got to say, like, when they said not guilty on all those accounts for, my jaw literally dropped.

And you know what's crazy is this is obviously nothing similar. But when we went to trial for my dad dying, I remember the state, right, was against us because we were suing the state. And they, when they interview you in these processes, they try to paint you out to be uncredible and to make you feel small and to make you feel trash and to make you feel like they would bring up these things where you're like, what does that have anything to do with anything? And our lawyer would say, well, they're trying to make it seem like you're white trash or so that people don't empathize for you.

Awful. And they're doing these tactics to make the jurors think you don't deserve to win that you're discredible, that all of these things. And that is their daily process. Crazy. Yeah. And that is just to me, like a girl that went through that. And, you know, Leah, you and I have talked about this about, like, young women at that age. It's like, yeah, maybe she.

maybe she did want the teacher to like her, but she still, at the end of the day, was a minor. Was a minor. Was a minor. In high school, I had a situation with, there was a teacher. I'm not going to get into it, but, you know, I was so naive and innocent. Like, are you almost always also at that age personally,

at least for myself, you don't even realize the power of your sexuality yet. Like, it's not even remotely on your radar. So, like, it's just, it's such an unfair, relationship. It's not fair. And it's completely taking advantage. And when I think back to myself and how naive and innocent I was at that age, it breaks my heart for her.

Big time. She had no, she doesn't know. She doesn't know. She's a child. You're a child. She's a child. And it just made me so sad. It was so, so sad. You know, it's... Her dad. Her dad. And then her dad and his hugs.

Uh-uh. And then, for him to take his life and you know she felt responsible for that. Oh, for sure. You know what I mean? Like whether it's the person you love or your father and both of those are taken from you. And oh my God, it's so painful. So painful. So painful.

I mean, it must have been so interesting for Lisa to go through that experience with these women. I mean, that must have been. It's so interesting, you know. We should reach out of her. She was like right there alongside the whole way. So it's just, it's interesting to me. And that's just three. I know.

Just three. Yeah. Well, I think we can continue this conversation. I think, you know, there's lots to discuss about this book and anyone who wants to talk about it. I think we will, you know, be on our Instagram and do some lives and keep a conversation going. But we just wanted to do a little recap here for everyone. No, yeah, it's just I want to, yeah, it should be a discussion. Yeah.

For sure. For sure. All right. Well, thanks for your time. And thanks for your recommendation. It was an incredible book. Oh, I'm so happy. You guys loved it.

That makes me really happy. Yeah. I'm glad. It should be read. People should read that. So. Did you write it? I wrote it.

I actually wrote it. Yes. I am Lisa. I'm just kidding. I would. You could. You could. I love you.

All right. We love you. All right. Love you. Bye. Okay. Bye. That was a Headgum podcast.