Broad Ideas with Rachel Bilson & Olivia Allen - Tegan and Sara

Episode Date: October 31, 2022

Pop duo and twins Tegan and Sara join Rachel and Olivia for this week’s episode! Tegan and Sara discuss how their musical careers got started, the bands that inspire them, what it was like to be gay in the 90’s and more! Sara talks about becoming a mom , while Tegan shares the anxieties that come with being a dog-mom.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hax is back for its fifth and final season, and so is The Hacks podcast. Join the Hacks creators and showrunners, Lucia and Yellow, Paul W. Downs, and Jen Statsky as they unpack the Emmy-winning comedy series. On each episode, here's stories from the set, what goes on in the writer's room, and how these beloved characters close out their final season. Watch Hax streaming exclusively on HBO Max and listen to The Hacks podcast on HBO Max, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Broad Ideas.

The podcast where we like to torture Rob, the Wizard of Broads. The podcast for people who like to torture Rob podcast. Say hello, Rob. Oh, hi. There he is. So today we have, well, Olivia and I can speak for us, not for Rob, but... Yeah, don't ever speak for me.

Ever. Been super fans of Tegan and Sarah for so long. I can picture us singing along to their songs, windows down, Leah speeding on the highway, and rocking out. They have been a Canadian indie pop duo. They started in 1998. They're twin sisters.

Super rad. humans, and they have a new show about their life called High School that recently came out. It's so good. It's so good. We're going to talk to them about that and many other things today. So let's welcome Tegan and Sarah. Sometimes when the way inside of all these thoughts are swirling, round and inside to join us on this journey as we take a little. We'll talk about dogs and kids and things.

We'll talk about chicks and tampon strings. We'll talk about boys. Because people die. Wait, do you guys live here? Where do you live? We did, but we moved back to Canada. You did. Yeah, we moved back up right before COVID.

And then when COVID hit, we were like, whoa. That was a good. We're like witches or something. We just like knew. How crazy. Yeah. So where did you move back? So we both live pretty much full-time in Vancouver.

You are in Vancouver. Yeah. I love it. I love you. I did. I shot there for five months, like a few years ago. Maybe now, God, it was probably like five years ago now. And I'd spent time there as a kid going up. And I just, I loved it. Oh, there's a spider on your jacket. Oh. No, it looks like a nice, gentle spider. Did you see she almost flicked it at me? And then she thought she was like, oh, no, there's other people watching. No, I wasn't going to flick it at you. He didn't want to kill him. He doesn't want me to help him. Is it okay that I let him free in his house? I am pretty like. You're fine. You're fine. You're fine. You're fine. You're fine. You're Insect friendly? Yeah, me too.

Yeah, yeah. I just let them chill. But yeah, so I lived, when I was up there, I lived just past the Camby Street Bridge, the Camby Bridge. Yeah. You know where the Whole Foods is? Yeah. I was like right in that hood. That's like, that's my whole foods.

Yeah. That's my whole foods. We were around the corner and my daughter was three at the time. Okay. And we would walk. It was great. It's, it's, it's. Go to Granville, just walk along the seafront.

It's a great spot. I feel like I, like, I've always had like love, hate, not hate. I don't even have a strong feeling. of hate actually about Vancouver. That's the problem is I've always kind of felt a bit like whatever about Vancouver. But admittedly, like I just had a kid and I just, it is such a kid-friendly universe there, like way easier than here for me. Yeah. No, I loved having my daughter up there. And Olivia, who's, I feel bad you're on the computer. That's okay. Wait, then I have you guys wrong in my head. Like, you thought Teagan had a baby? No, you knew Sarah had a baby, but you didn't know.

I knew Sarah had a baby, but you know what it is? You thought I didn't live in Vancouver. No, I thought you were, I thought you were Teigen. Oh. Like, but did you guys switch hairstyles? No. No. Teigen just cut bangs.

I did just cut my bangs. Teigen just cut bangs. Yeah. Okay. But, you know, that's what it is. And your hair's longer than in my head. It's the bangs. It's the bangs.

It's the bangs. It's the bangs. It is. Because Sarah's hair is like longer. Well, Sarah, and you your hair was longer and then you just cut, you just gave yourself a little pre-tour trim. I did give myself a little trim. I mean, we're always changing our hair, which I do think if you're, if you're reliant on our hair, it can be very destabilizing. I'm reliant on your hair and I can't see.

Yeah. I mean, I want to take your glasses. Look, I can't believe you couldn't tell us by our or ath. They're so offended. Yeah. I know. No, but we usually sit in our names. We usually sit in order, which is pretty rude of us not to have done that to make it easy.

But you just really, you're messing with us. Yeah. No, but seriously, I am like, really, though, like such an enormous fan, and it was hard to, like, keep it together for real. Like, your music has been such a big part of my, our life. I have to say our because, Lou, like, I remember just the timing of, like, the days of Coachella and, like, just, like, bumping your music and, like, driving out to the desert. Like, just that time, because I haven't been to Coachella and a long time. Yeah. Why I bring it up.

And our other best friend, Leah, she called me. She's like, oh my God, you're talking to Tegan and Sarah. And she was like, we started singing one of your songs, but I won't. We sing all of them today. We do. We sing all. Yeah. We just can't help ourselves.

I put on a little dance party with my family and we sing, or I sing your songs and then watched your show high school. You did watch it. That's very fun. Yeah. So tell us about high school. I haven't gotten to watch it yet. I just came out. Yeah.

Just came out on Friday. I am super excited. Yeah. We're really excited too. It's cool. I mean, when we wrote the book, like we wrote the book in 2018 and it came out in 2019 and we promoted it for like three months and then the pandemic hit. And we had already spoken prior to the pandemic. It wasn't the pandemic that inspired the TV show, but we'd been already in development with Clea Duvall, who's an old, old friend of ours. And when we'd actually sent the book to her before it came out and we asked if she could blurb it, which I hate that word. I'm so sorry for using it. it, but we're like, can you write a blurb for our book? And then she called me the next morning. She read it overnight. And she said, like, don't sell this. Don't sell the rights to this. Like, you should be in control. You should develop it with me. And you should retain control. It's such a personal story. And she knew all our family and friends. Like, she spent Christmas with us many times before. And so we were like,

I mean, it was just such a long shot. And I'm like, sure. Whatever. Whatever. But then when the pandemic hit, it was like, oh, damn, we have like a lot of time. And, By that time, we'd already partnered up with Plan B, who were the production company on it. And specifically Jeremy Kleiner over there, he was just such a fan of our band. And so he was like, I really actually like legitimately think we could get this made. And we were like, sure, sure. I think that's what everyone says. But, yeah, within the first six months of COVID, we started like taking meetings and pitched it

and felt really lucky that we got Laura Kittrell, who joined us. She came from, she'd worked on all five seasons of Insecure. Okay. which is another really beautiful, amazing, just incredibly written, clever show. And she's a queer woman as well. So we had Clea and Laura, and we were like, okay, we're like, this is amazing.

It's kind of like dream team and went into production in March and wrapped the show just before summer. And then it came out on Friday. And it's really surreal and weird. And I think we're all collectively so relieved because the reviews have been positive, but more important than that, our mom likes it.

Aww. I was going to ask you if the mom in the show felt like your mom to you when you watched it. You know, it's tricky. I know. It's tricky. I mean, it's how do you, like, because obviously Kobe Smolders is an amazing actor, but, like, I think that the goal for all of the, for the actors was to sort of, like, embody these characters and not worry too much about doing, like, impersonations or something. Like, and we were, Dean and I were around. I was on set, like, every day.

like from crew call to like rap every day. And I was hanging out with all the cast and I was certainly not being like, I wasn't there so that like season and really could get like super method about playing Tegan and Sarah. Like I was just there because I was like, move the cool old thing over or done.

You know, like I'm just there to be like a fan. But it was the same with Kobe. Like I didn't, you know, we certainly have a lot of like archival footage and we were open to like giving like video tapes of like us in high school if people wanted to look at it.

But mostly we were just like the characters are rich on the page. like just do what you do with them. Yeah. So I will say this. The moment that really like was super impactful for me about Kobe was there's an episode where you see Kobe's perspective. You sort of see her story.

And she's at the University of Calgary. She's going back to school. You know, she's doing her master's degree. And we actually shot in Calgary and we shot at the University of Calgary. And like Kobe's driving this like green Jeep Cherokee, which is what my mom drove. And like there was this moment. It's actually teal. Excuse me.

It's like a teal. But there was this moment where when she is in the school, like I got super emotional on set. Like we were sitting at the University of Calgary and I was watching it. And I realized in that moment, I visualized that a million times. I knew my mom was in school. I imagined her there. What about it in the book. I've told people that, you know, she was just like so badass and whatever.

But it was the first time I was visually seeing this character in the University of Calgary. And it was so moving to me to be like, wow, our mom was amazing. Like here she's dealing with like teenagers And then she's like going to school And then she finishes school And she goes to her job You know it was just And also on the show

The time frame of 1919, 1990, 1950 Did you say 19 Sarah's age That's a hundred years That's what it feels like Go Yeah

Both of Tegan and Sarah Vampires from Canada 1995 Our mom in 1995 was 37 I'm 42 right now So you know I think like

Oh what a trip watching this version of my mom that is younger than me dealing with the kinds of things that she was dealing with. I mean, those were really moving moments. And I thought Kobe did, like, just an outstanding. She's awesome. I loved her in it. Like, her energy, just the way she dealt with the girls and stuff.

And that's why I asked that. Because I was like, is that how your mom really was? Our mom was crazier. Way, way way crazy. Like this is, yeah. Well, I would think a more polite, potentially polite way that mom won't be upset by saying this is that maybe all the parents on the show, you don't see our dad until later on. So our biological dad comes, he's also portrayed on the show. But I think all three

of them, the portrayals are quite empathetic and thoughtful. But I think the essence of our parents is there. But they're more generous portrayals in the sense that like the parents all seem really like together. And our parents were young. And as Sarah pointed out, they're only a few years, you know, younger than we are now. And the thought of having, I mean, can either of you imagine having 16 year olds like dropping acid? Yeah. Like, it's scary. So I think she held it together. So I think Kobe's performance is really beautiful and nuanced. And she does have some, there's some scenes coming up in the next few episodes that are really amazing. But there's a scene where she flips out because she catches us going to a rave. And when that really happened, I mean, my God, my mom lost it. I mean, she just. Like, yeah. Yeah, because I mean, you know, we were such dirtbags. You know, we just lied and did drugs and we were so out of control. And she would get right up in there with us. and scream at us. It's hard for me to imagine like a rave in that whole scene in Calgary.

I know. It was huge. Yeah. Maybe because there was nothing else. Maybe. You know? Yeah. It's not like and you guys, you know, like you don't live there now or what it's not

like a place you went because Calgary's always seems a little random to me. It's just more. I don't know. Yeah. Like you said, there's not a ton going on. But I think that it's, I mean, I don't want to say like it's fact, but this is common in a lot of Canadian cities and I wonder if it's probably similar in the states. But when you have these cities that are else.

outside, you know, like they're not in New York or in L.A. There are these sort of vibrant underground kind of scenes like crop up. And Calgary had this really vibrant punk rock scene, which Sarah and I came up in junior high age, or middle school age. And then when we had high school, everybody was going to raves. Like, that was just like the thing. And some of them were really small. Like, we'd go to ones that maybe there were 100 kids at.

No, yeah. But by the end of high school, we were going to raves at the arena. And so, and you have to remember, too, it was like that really, you know, I don't, I think we're around similar age of 41. Yeah, we're like, yeah, I saw you guys are 80. I'm 81. Yeah, so, like, you know, train spotting was huge. You know, like hackers, like these like, like, I would rollerblade to school because Angeloina Jolie, like, basically, you know what I mean?

And so, like, this music was just massive. Yeah. And so I think, like, that was all we had because bands didn't come there. And so, you know, local DJs were sort of like our celebrities. Right. I feel like this show is actually doing a nice job of, I hope, also expanding what people's expectations are of a city like Calgary. Like I think when we think of like Montreal or we think of Toronto or Vancouver,

we think of like cities that are on par with some of the bigger American cities. But, you know, Calgary's, I compare it to like a Portland or something. You know, there's probably about 1.3 million people that live there. It's a city. Like it's substantial. Maybe you shouldn't move there. I did. I was there for three and a half months.

I was just like, you know. Three and a half months. I thought you were going to say years. No, no, no. I was there for three and a half months. And I was like, I got back into the sort of like fabric of the city. And I was like, you know, I think that the city has more to it than has ever been explored before. And actually, that was one of the big pride moments for me working on the show was that all the crew was local.

Everybody was local on the show. And they were like, this is the first time that Calgary has been able to play itself. Like, we're always kind of hiding it. Yeah, there's so many projects. You're going to Calgary. Not supposed to be Calgary. No. No, this was like, yeah, we can like lean into all the like Calgary spots.

It was awesome. That is really rad. Yeah. Where are the girls from? Oh, they're from... Fresno. Yeah, Season and Rayleigh who played Tegan and Sarah. They grew up in Fresno, but they now live here.

Like, we relocated them when we cast them so they could come do acting classes and music lessons because they had never acted. They'd never done music. Wow. No, nothing. We found them on TikTok. What?

One day I was just like doom scrolling on TikTok. And Rayleigh, who ended up being cast as me, there's just like this funny video of this cute kid. you know, in their car being like, hey guys, so this is my lunch for today. I got sushi and I just like was mesmerized and sounds really weird because, you know, it's that mesmerizing way that TikTok can like lock you in and you've literally seen nothing, but you feel like you were unable to pull away from it. I just started like throwing myself down into this kind of hole that, you know, kind of appeared

and figured out that she was an identical twin and there were all these videos of her dancing and messing around with her sister and they were just sort of. so goofy and silly and I sent a bunch to Sarah and I said, doesn't this remind you of us? And too bad they can't play us and six months later they were cast to play us. And Sarah and it was like a whole journey. Like we couldn't get a hold of them

and the casting agents couldn't reach them. So then Sarah put up a TikTok being like, help us get in touch with these twins. No. They started following us and Sarah DMed them and was like, you probably have no idea who we are but we're banned. And she explained everything and said,

you know, can we connect you with the casting agents and will you please put yourselves on tape for this? and Season, who plays Sarah in a very Sarah move, was like, I don't want to do this and really made her, which is literally how our career happened. Is that right? Yeah. I need to hear more of that, too.

But yeah, they got cast. And they, I mean, I, you know, what do I know? But I think they're really brilliant on the show. I think they're right at that moment in their lives with their figuring out who they are. Like when we discovered them, they were working at a pizza place in Fresno, and they had no idea what to do with themselves. They were 20. And that's when Sarah and I got signed.

We were 20 years old. Wow. I think that they portray that Tegan and Sarah on screen in the perfect way that, you know, we saw dozens of amazing twins who can sing an act, you know, dozens of tapes. But what Cesar didn't really have is they have like a discomfort in them. Yep. I think it would, like probably an amazing actor could potentially like, you know, a body. But you're watching them on screen and you're watching them in real life figure out who they are.

Like they're capturing Tegan and Sarah as they feel. figure out who they are as they, as season and rarely figure out who they are. And it's really beautiful. And they didn't read the book. They didn't read ahead. Like, when we were on set shooting the first three episodes, they were like, what happens in the rest of the season? And we were like, are you freaking kidding me? Like, what's happening? So they like, you can feel them. Right. They did, I mean, I'm sure this was partly to do with their coach, but like, that you can feel them discovering what happened. That's right. It's pretty, pretty badass. You really can. And this, and I'm saying this from, you know,

I'm not you guys watching it, obviously. And that's exactly the feeling you get is you feel the newness. And it doesn't, it's not a green newness. Like, oh, they don't know how to act. It's like a newness of these people are in whatever situation they're in for the first time. Yeah. Which was exactly where you guys were in the script. And so it played so well.

And you could feel that like they were not yet established. in who they were, but not in a negative way in a really precise way they went with the story. It was really good. My biggest fear was that we were going to find people who could act and play music, and then they were going to have to pretend like they didn't know how to play music. And Seasoner really did not know how to play music, and they never practiced. All I did was chase them around on set trying to get them to play guitar and sing with me. I was practicing being a mom.

I was like, oh, my God. Like, it was just, it was so crazy. And I think that that, like, the first time they played, on camera was episode four. And so we were already like six weeks into shooting. And the days leading up to that first scene were very stressful for me and others on the set. Because we were just like, oh my God, oh my God, oh, my God. What if they can't do it?

And that morning, you know, like season went into the set. She's in her bedroom and she's, you know, playing the song and Rayleigh hears her through the wall. It's easier for me to use their real names, not Tegan and Sarah. So just, you know, whatever. Understandably so. I can't get that. And Season was like, I can't do it. Like, she just was sitting in, and I was like, okay, here we go.

This is what I was worried about. Oh, my God, oh my God. She's like, I can't do it. I can't do it. And then I can't see Rayleigh, but I can hear her in the headphones. And I hear her say very quietly to Clea, can I go in there? And so she goes onto the set and she says, Susan, you got this? Like, it's going to be fine.

And then she says, can I sit in the room? If I'm sitting here, she's talking to the camera operator. Can I sit over here? Can you see me if I sit here? And they say, no, you can sit there. there. And so she says, I'm going to stay in here with you, season. And so then, you know, Clea calls action and season did it. And you see that on camera. Like, that is, that's how Rod is. Like, it's not like, they're just like, okay, the teacher and here we go. And like,

they're just really like, oh, God, shit, can I do this? And they, they, they, it was electrifying, you know, it was just so, it was so terrifying and so exciting. And I'm really proud of them. And they're really, I'm not crying. That was just, I don't know what happened. Do you guys? We want, we want, we want, we hope you cry. Sarah's weeping. I did cry, by the way. During that day, I cried so many times. How would you not? I was just like, I was like proud. I was relieved. I was like all these things.

And actually Kobe and Kyle, you know, who play our mom and stepdad, they, they come in in that scene and watch them play the first, like, play the song. And, you know, this is a surprise to them that their children can do this. And they both cried. Like, the first time that season, I really played, they both started crying. And it's just like, we all felt like it was really happening. Like, exactly. Like, you really are like, wow, they can. do that. Like there is that feeling of like, I'm probably what our friends and family felt about

us because we were such losers. And then suddenly we were like, hey, guys, check those out. And we just knew how to play songs? So how did that happen? I want to hear like growing up and it's parallels obviously really your life. Yeah. So I want to know. Like how did it all happen? I mean, we did have musical. I just want to say we did have some musical background in that we were taking piano lessons like, you know, with kids. My mom was like, what do you want to do? We were like, karate. And then it was like, oh, I want to play piano. Right. So we had some musical background. We were not good. There was no like, oh, wow, they really have a natural, you know, innate sense of melody. Like no one was like, this is going to be good. But, you know, of the era, I think, you know, 90s, everybody had guitars. Everybody's brother had a guitar anyway. And we, yeah, we just kind of stumbled upon a guitar in our basement that my stepdad had sort of filed away and wasn't playing it. And we just kind of started playing. But it was really immediate. We knew how to compose songs. We were not, didn't sound refined by any stretch. But there was something just like, yeah, innate in us that we could do it.

Wow. I'm just, that's so impressive and so cool, too. And I would imagine you guys are super in tune with each other being identical twins. And, you know, I always hear that about twins and that's true, right? I think so because you, I think probably the way that, I mean, I hate making the comparison to marriage. But like a marriage, you're with each other all the time. Right. You know, year in and year out.

Yeah. You know, you spend so much time together. I think because Sarah and I were. the same age. Like, I think this is what happens to twins is you're the same age. So you end up going through a lot of the same. And developmental, you're the same age. A lot of the same things at the same time. And because we are so, we are naturally so similar and we do really like a lot of the same things. We ended up sharing a lot of the same friends and a lot of the same interests. And then, of course, went into a career together. And so I do believe probably being around us can be a bit spooky at

times. Like, I don't like twins. Like, I think they're strange. Like, there's something very weird about twins. Season and really the twins who play us on the show are the first twins I've really ever been friends with. Wow. And it is really it's actually really nice. Like I find it quite I don't even know what the word is. I can't articulate it. It's, but there's something

very sweet. I mean it's like familiar. It's familiar. It's comforting. It's like I like watching them like one day they got in a fight on the way home from set and the way that they were fighting, it tickled me because that's

we fight. And it was helpful because I think we don't full-blown fight in front of anybody, but it's clear when we're fighting. But I always thought, it sounds wild to admit this, but like for 40 years I've imagined no one could tell when this kind of specific fight was happening. And it was so obvious to me that they were fighting and so mad at each other. And it was really eye-opening. And also I was like, wow, we need to stop doing that in front of people because it's really uncomfortable. But I also was, yeah, I don't know, it was really nice. It healed some part of me to be around them because I was like, this is also really hard.

Like something that Sarah and I do together is really special for people. It's special for us too. It feels good to make music with Sarah. I like being on stage with her. I want her to be successful. I like the song Sarah writes and I enjoy being in a band with her. And yet it is suffocating and brutal. and exhausting, and sometimes I just wish it was mine.

And a lifetime of sharing everything with her, including my career and my money and my face. It's like my face. It's frustrating. It's interesting the emphasis on my when you said money. Because it's not really, it's not like you're not just like giving it to me like as like as you're just nice. Like we do.

You know what I mean though? It's like it's a lot. And watching them share this. Right. Like watching season and really be discovered together. be cast together. By the way, their names, like, you know, Teigen is unique, season is unique. And then Rayleigh's a little more, you know, and Sarah. So that's kind of an interesting comparison. There's so many, like I could go on forever about it. And so watching them go through it, we had like

deep, deep, deep, empathy and compassion for what they go through. Their life will be different in some sense, too. I mean, obviously, I hope the show's successful and gets more seasons than blah, blah, blah, but, you know, even just what will happen next in terms of, like, they're starting to, like, audition for other things. And I'm like, oh, my God, well, one of them become really famous and the other won't or like is I'm so biased because of the like the way that but I'm like are you know I'm doing the thing people do to us like yeah where you compare and you ask questions like Sarah had and her partner had a baby four months ago and it's like you know everyone immediately they asked there a bunch of questions and then they turn to me and they go

so does that mean you're going to want a baby right what happens to your band because Sarah had a baby like everything in our life is contrast and compare everything and it's really weird to like draw into people to that world and be like we're both potentially improving on the world that you have like we're giving you all these new opportunities and then there's this other part of me that's really guilty and I'm like are we ruining your life? But I don't know, I can't speak to it. You could probably speak more to what it's like to be an actor and what the trajectory of your life is going to look like. Yeah, no, I don't know. It's it totally changes. Once you're a mom and I know it's the same, right? Because the working and you have a four month old,

which is insane to me. Oh, yeah. Congratulations. Yeah, congratulations. Yeah. I mean, I did not, like, my wife had the baby. She carried, okay. She carried the baby. So I do think there's something about, although like she's going, she's actually starting to go back to work in a couple of weeks. So I just, I think that we're very, we're both very A-type and probably unwell. In terms of workaholic tendencies, we both work in creative fields. So there's a lot about our life that is flexible and sort of like, you know, I don't know. I can see that she's like really missed working. But we also, and I'm not like trying to like, this is like discriminatory against straight people. So I just going to go ahead and say it. And then you guys can judge us later. But two women have. I didn't share any sort of judgmental opinion about straight people.

That's Sarah. Two women having a baby together somehow seems easier than having a man in the equation only because I just think that women are better at supporting each other. I'm going to fully support you saying that right now. Like men are great. I'm not. Sorry, Rob. Rob has a baby and a five-year-old, but, you know. I'm just saying, like, I just...

Natalie would probably agree with his life. Maybe. Maybe. Men are great, great dads, great sports. I have lots of male friends right now who are amazing, amazing, supportive co-parents. I just think it's different. I just like, you know, Stacy and I are just like, you know,

we're like locked in and then sync in a really different way. And I think it's been, it's just been great. I mean, I'm half of the... You also did say the other day you thought women multitask better. They do. One thousand percent. I think women do. I just think they do.

That is fact. Yeah. Rob's like, I do not. Yeah, we have our little. You don't think so, Lou? I can't multitask at all. I have to do one thing at a time.

Maybe it's a personality thing then. I do think two women. Sweeping, sweeping judgments on Sarah's part here. It is. It totally is. Oh, we're fine with that. Oh, yeah. Oh, no, we're great with that.

No, I fully agree with it. And I don't know what that says about me, but. We call each other sister wives because we're like, we wish we could live in a big commune so that we could have more support of help from the women in our life because women tend to be the kind of support mothers need. Yeah. I mean, my husband's an amazing dad, but... Yes, your husband's an amazing dad, but our other best friend, Leah, I'm like, you're moving

in with me because we would partner so well together. Yeah. Even though we're straight, you know, when she's like, okay, go have sex when you want to have sex, but like at home... But then I need your year. Yeah. You manage the things together and we'd be unstoppable. I get it.

We both, Sarah and I have partnered many times. with what started off as straight girls. Yeah. And then we're just like the best boyfriend you'll ever have. And so like we're like the gateway to bisexuality because we're just like once you date someone that's like, yeah, just like all the checks a lot of the boxes. And I do, we both are, we're still friends with all our friends from high school.

All of our best friends are our friends from high school. And they're all, you know, straightish. And but partnered most, almost all of them have partnered with men. And in really non-conventional and awesome alternative ways. like you all just pointed out, like great partners, great dads, whatever, but there just is something about the way that women connect with each other and like, and they all say, like, you know, it's like, it's like this thing where it's like you go and you get a lot of what you need outside the relationship.

And as a queer person, that's been something I had to learn way later in life because I used to look for everything in my relationship. So my partner is my partner, but then they're also going to be my best friend and my confidant and my every day. And that doesn't work. And my current partner, Sophia, we've been together seven and a half years. And I credit all of our joy and happiness and compatibility and the long-termness of our relationship

with the fact that pretty much the second week, she was like, hi, yeah, I totally get what kind of person you are. I'm not going to be your everything. So you're going to need to go figure that out somewhere else. You're going to need to, like, build up a real strong foundation and lots of resources because I'm just not going to be your everything. And that was very destabilizing. She was also like six years younger than me, and I'm like,

how do you know that? And I don't know that. She'd never even been like a long-term relationship, but it was such a good piece of feedback that I'm still working on seven years later. I love that. I think bringing in a third, if you're a straight person,

I think is a very smart idea. I definitely want a third. I just, I also want to just... Wait, really? Oh, yeah, absolutely. It doesn't even have to be romantic. Just right now what I mostly need. Because Stacy and I are so lucky

we can afford to have, you know, some help right now with Sid, our child. But the other day, I had this moment where I was like, I don't need anyone to take care of Sid. I need someone to, like, go for dinner with Stacy so I can stay home and watch that new dragon show, like The Game of Thrones,

so like. I'm just like, you know, and not like a friend. Like I was like, she needs like, you know, we need like a third person. But I want to just want to say one other thing too. I really push against this idea

that women are more innately, like, tuned in to being mothers. I think we have a society that has trained us to be this way, has made it possible for us to be this way. You know, I, my very,

very early impressions of motherhood four months in, is that this is designed for us. It's like all the blogs and all the feeds and all the stores and all of the things. It's like it's designed for and by women and like we've got like a, we've got this market cornered, you know?

And I can imagine that for men, it probably is like, well, where do I fit into this? Or like, I'm not into all this junk. And or, you know, like, or like it's not as, like, I go to the park and it's just like fleets of women with like iced cappuccinos and like workout clothes. And I'm just like, yeah, I'm sure like for men, they're like, oh, I'm like kind of like,

feel like I'm at like a club. Like I mean, as like a, as a lesbian who doesn't always, like, I feel like I look way gayer than my partner who, like, fits more in that sort of straight vibe. But like, I even feel a little odd sometimes when I'm in these situations. And so like my early impressions of like how it must work for some dads is like has, I have more of an empathy now than I used to whereas I used to just be like, where are the dad such dead beats? Like, why are they all like, see this Rob, Sarah's trying to win you back.

Yeah. Yeah, Rob. Some of that's true, too, though. Like, historically, I completely agree with that. It's like this narrative's been pushed on women, right? And then the men, it's like the story is, oh, you'll bond with them later. Don't worry about it. And in my situation with my husband, that's not the case.

Like, he was day one. He's in the trenches. Like, that guy is, if I were to, if anything were to happen to me, I would feel a thousand percent confident that he's got this, you know. And I can't say that for the way I was raised for sure. And by the way most people I know were raised, I didn't see as strong father figures. There's probably like two that stand out.

But a lot of the times the mom did a lot of the heavy lifting. And I think that's part of our generation. Yeah. It's also hard. Being a mom is so hard. And I think there's like a whole conspiracy. Well, being a parent is hard. Okay, yeah. But I'm just saying like when I think about my mom,

I'm talking about like when I think of like historically what our mom was doing and then dads are kind of like, I have a job. It's very hard out here. And I'm like, no, now I've done it. It's harder to be a mom. Like that was harder. Sorry. Like it was probably fun to go to work.

You got to have your coffee and put all your buttons on your little keyboard. And like, you know, like two weeks with a child. And Tegan was like, you're gray. You look very tired. You know, like, I mean, it was like destabilizing. It's a hard job. Existentially. It's existentially hard. You are like, every day you wake up, especially in the early days, and you're like, I hope I don't accidentally kill you. You know, like, you're just like, are you okay? Are you okay? Why are you crying? Why do you need,

what's happening? What's that look? What, you know, like, it's just, it's so stressful. So I also think like there's this conspiracy part where I'm like, I think it's now to see men be like congratulated for participating equally or more than they used to. Like, I think, like, I think like, you know, they're, I think that I used to find that annoying. And now I'm like, yeah, let them, let them acknowledge how hard this is. You know, like my male friends right now are like, oh my God, I'm so tired. When does this go back to normal? You know, like, and I'm like, I think it's just giving like almost like generational, um, redemption to all the women who had to do it without the support of the dads. Like without the, you know, like, whatever. But anyways,

lesbians raising children, I do think we're like, we're the chosen ones. That's the vibe. I think so. No, I'm really, I'm like in my head, but I really, I'm like, Leah, you're moving in tomorrow. It's our version of it. But it is true, you know, and it's just how it's always been. Like, it's just, you know, historically in all of that. And your mom obviously was very involved and worked her ass off itself, like, as a mother. And it was your stepdad that raised you guys, right? Yeah.

So when, yeah, and my dad was still involved, but, you know, it was typical, more like an 80s model where, where, you know, our dad took us one day a week. and my mom had us the rest of the time. And look, with the context of 2022, new perspective, it seems outrageous to me that my mom was going back to school, working full time and had the two of us and was taken care of us six days a week. And twins, by the way. Yeah.

Going through like developmentally going through like really intense things. Like it's not like one of us was older and could take care of it. It was unbelievably difficult for her. We had a lot of support, but, you know, there's absolutely nothing that she went through that isn't like just mind-boggling to me now as an adult who doesn't even have children. Like, I just have a dog and I'm like, I don't even think I'll be able to get through the day. And it seems weird.

But I do think that that was the time. But our stepdad was really cool. He moved in with us when we were 11 or 12. Okay. But, you know, dated my mom from the time we were seven on and was like, you know, we never saw. My dad and my stepfather never, I've never heard them utter a bad word about each other. That's so nice. My dad came to the door to pick us up, you know, like my mom and my dad.

My dad went to high school together and my dad grew up in foster care so he didn't have any family. And so my mom still considered, like, they're still considered each other family. They call each other every year on our birthday and congratulate each other, like, for bringing us into the world and being, you know, like we grew up with a very healthy model of what co-parenting can look like. That's very lucky. Awesome. But it was unconventional times. Like we were latchkey kids at 11, you know, my mom worked nights. and, you know, we were, we were sort of left to sort of just do whatever we were going to do.

We were given a lot of, we were given a lot of responsibility that I think now would like, would be like child abuse by today's standards, although it was not abusive. It was so fun. And I always tell people, actually, to tie it back into the show. It's not child abuse is like neglectful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever. You know, like, like when people are like, fine, fine, fine, fine.

When people now are like, you know, asking us like about high school. school, like making this show that was set in the 90s, and they're like, oh, it must have been so hard to be gay in the 90s. And it must just grow up in Calgary. Like, what a nightmare. And I was like, are you kidding me? I got to have sleepovers with my quote unquote best friend. My mom was not hip to the idea that I was having sex in my bedroom, like, with my best friend. She had no idea. And now we'd be sitting down at the dinner table and being like, well, mom, I'd like to come out to you. I've now identify as gay. I would never have been able to have my best friends sleep over. She would have been like, oh, you're gay? We can't have your best friends sleep over anymore.

No, you know? No, this is the thing I always say. Like, Sarah and I, we started a foundation five years ago. We raised money for LGBTQ women and girls. A lot of our work in our programs are aimed at youth. And what is the name of it? It's called the Tegan and Sarah Foundation. I know. Easy enough. I know. But one of the first things

that we really focused on was youth and, you know, GSAs and LGBTQ summer camps. We send like LGBTQ kids to LGBT summer camps with a focus on kids from rural communities and low-income families and kids of color. And like, there's now grant to 26 camps across North America. And, but in the process of like, you know, building this work and this network and learning about these summer camps and GSAs and stuff, people would be like, don't you wish that you'd had all of this when you were a teenager? And I was like, oh, hell no. I would have been so uncomfortable talking about my sexuality at

16. No way. To me, sexuality and sex were hand in hand. If you were talking about sexual than you were talking about sex. And I can't think of something I want to talk about less now than sex. So I can't even imagine that 16. If someone would be like, let's sit down, Tegan, and let's talk about your sexuality.

I would have probably died. Like, you know, and so we always don't because we're like, oh, man, if a GSA had come up in our school, I mean, maybe we would have all joined as a goof initially,

but I totally get, like, we have a, like, you know, a lot of young people that come and hang out at our shows and, you know, these, like,

LGBTQ kids, like, I'm not in the GSA. And I totally get it. Like, they're not being jerks. They're uncomfortable. Sexuality's so uncomfortable. But yeah, I think if Sarah and I were growing up and we'd had all of that language, my mom would have totally forced us to talk about it. And it would have been so uncomfortable. Tegan. She did. Did you read my part

of the book? No, no, but I mean like if we'd come out. Like we kept it, we kept being like, no, we're not gay. But I mean, like, imagine you'd had the conversation with mom and said, okay, fine, mom, I'm gay. And you would have had to have that conversation with her again and again. No, but I did have, this is the same. I don't think he can actually read my part of the book. But I actually literally did sit down with my mom and she was like, are you attracted and having a relationship with your best friend? And I was like, no. And she's like, that's interesting because I did find a note where you say that you're in a relationship and it's quite sexual and content. And so I'm fairly certain that this is like happening.

And I denied it. And then we had to have the conversation about how it was totally okay to have feelings for your friends and that she had had feelings for girls in the past and that she had kissed the girl at boarding school, which was like, horrifying to know. And we did have to have that conversation, but I was like similar to Tegan. I wasn't ready to declare myself or use any sort of like, you know, I wasn't ready to say that I was having this relationship

or that I was gay. And I think the difference between that time and this time is that my mom then was like, fine, I'll let you like continue to like figure it out. And my mom now, it would just be so different. Like I just don't think I would have gotten away with that time. Like for all the stuff that sucks about being queer in the 90s,

the one thing that I had was, um, was time. I had time to figure it out. I wasn't ready at 15 to be telling people. And instead I, you know, my mom kind of like kicked me out of the closet when I was 18. Like she was like, enough already. I know that you are, I know you are. And I was like, I didn't necessarily feel ready to say it. But once I did, she did give me the gift of forcing me to say it. And then I think I was able to like really like move on. Like I was able to get to the next stage of being gay, which is telling people I was gay. I think, too, that with parents, even of straight kids, at 15, 16 years old, nobody wants to talk to their parents about their sexuality, even if it's straight.

I know. Exactly. Stop. It's so embarrassing. We figured it out the other day. I was talking to someone and we're like, why is that so gross, like when it comes to your mom talking to you about sex? Because my mom would be like, oh, did he stick his finger in you?

No. And I'd be like, stop it. I would never be able to move on. My mom still to this day is like, oh, honey, but if you try cunning and I'm just like, yes. Yeah, no, no. Honestly, you guys, I'm so shook. So our mom partnered.

I am absolutely shocked. I'm absolutely shocked. And I was upset like five minutes ago because we said a swear word. And now you guys are talking using sex words and your mom in the same sentence. It's insane. I was going to say that when our mom partnered with this wonderful man, Michael, 20 years ago. They've been together now 20 years and he's really great. But when they started dating, he was really affectionate with her, with his kids who were teenagers. And I noticed a shift right

away where my mom started to be really affectionate with us. And we were 24 or 25 when all this was taking place. And we grew up in what I call a verbally affectionate house. Like we just, we did not touch. We were 22. 22. Sorry. We didn't touch a lot. Like we weren't like overly affectionate. But like, and there wasn't a lot of I love yous growing up. But I felt very loved. We just weren't like that kind of family. We're much more like that now. And when she started, like, when she repartnered with Michael, all of a sudden she was so affectionate. She come visit us in Vancouver and she was always like trying to hug me. And like one time I remember she held my hand. And I went to therapy that week and I told my therapist it was like, I don't feel like this is okay. You can't

like out of nowhere 22 years into my life trying to hold my hand on the street. Like this is outrageous. And so yeah, I can't. I mean, I'm totally in shock. If my mom tried to, I mean, it's so interesting too as a queer person because my mom, with both Sarah and I have stories about this, like, where my mom will try to be, like, there's almost like she tries to become friends with our partners. You know that this will be a public podcast that mom can listen to. Yeah, no, she's going to love this. My mom, we try to be friends with our partners. And it's like this weird thing where it's like, I feel really, like, lucky because I talk to some

of my, again, not to pick on heterosexuals. I know some queer people are like this too. The parents have no interest in their partner or their partner's family, like, no interest. And there's this, like, really interesting thing with my mom where she's like, really invests in our partners and like really like really kind of befriends them and makes them part of like she wants a separate relationship with them with us not there like we are currently not at home we're here in los angeles where we do not live and our mother is hanging out with our partners you know what like it's like well she is being a grandma tegan and she is helping

out a lot with sit so mom if you're listening to this i just want to be clear that tegan i know you're not just being stacey's friend you're being a fantastic grandmother you're it's been amazing to watch you become a grandma yeah but she's been amazing. Prior to four months ago, prior to four months ago, she was still, she had, she had, she had, she had, she had, she totally made, she always made an effort with Stacy. She's always made an effort with Sophia. She's like, invested in this different way. And once again, bringing you back to high school and, and the sex talk that this, that this, that just blew my mind is like, if my mom tried to have that kind of candid relationship, if I'd come out as a teenager

and my mom had been befriending my girlfriends, I would have made me want to die. Is ultimately what I was saying. Because you're a teenager. with Rachel and I. Yeah. You're just, you're a young person. Oh, yeah. Yeah, but we could talk,

like, I could talk to Rachel's mom about sex. All my friends talked to my mom about sex. My mom was, like, the mom they went to, her mom was the mom they went to.

Right. But you couldn't talk to your own mom. No. Because I think there's something in our DNA that says no. That's like, not for you.

Yeah. I think I just saw Nick Kroll's new Netflix comedy special. Oh, I started to, yeah. And he's like, why are we so mean to our? her mom. And the whole, we call our mom. Yeah, because it's so true. He's like, we're so rude to them.

I'm so mean to my mom. I can't. I don't feel like I'm mean to my mom. I feel like you're not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm like nice and tequila. Let's call my mom. Is this a call-in show? Let's get my mom on. We need our and we have her here. I think my mom's been embedded into Sarah's family last four months and it's been really wonderful. But it's interesting because my mom and I, we lived in the same city for most of my out of life and very, very, very close. But I really related, we shopped together, we hang out together. I jokingly call her and her partner, Michael, my friends. And they come to my parties to hang out with my friends.

But as soon as I saw his bit, where it is. Like, what he's getting at is that there's an impatience we have with our parents. It's the truth. It's an impatience. Like, it's like, it's innate in us. It's cellular that, you know, they call and they're like, I saw this thing. And he just screams all the specials. He's like, God, you're so annoying.

And I was just like, but everyone laughs in a way that I was like, yeah, there's like an relatable. Yeah. My stepdad's like this. My dad, it's not just moms. It's like, there's something about them. And we were saying, my mom was like, you and Olivia are both the worst with your mom. Because it's true.

Are you mean to your mom, Rob? Not anymore. Oh. But you were. I think girls are meaner to them. Yeah. I think so too. But no, my son, who seven has been mean to me lately and he's so nice.

At school, he's an angel. He's amazing to his dad. And I sat him down the other day. And I was like, why are you so mean to me? Like, what is it? Is it that you know that no matter what you do, I'm going to love you unconditionally? And he basically was like, yeah. And I was like, you know what?

The truth is, you're right. Yeah. But don't be a dick. When we found out the due date for our son, I did, I don't really do astrology, but I really like this website, the secret language of first days. Like, I'm like, I just, I don't know, like, I'm like an accolite. I just, I'm into it. But I did ours with our son.

And my relationship with Sid is like super good. And Stacey's is like, it's just filled with danger. Like it's just like you're not going to get along. Like there's going to be all these things, whatever. And so he's just a baby, but I like finding. He's like, no, they're already fighting. Yeah. I kind of like watching them and being like, like, oh yeah, that's the other thing.

It says that I need to be very careful not to be smug about our relationship. And I already feel smug. Oh, I already do. Like what I'm telling people about him, I'm like, I mean, he's very cute and sleeps 12 hours a night. And I feel smug. Oh my God. Like I feel smug. That's amazing. Yeah. And then Stacey kind of has, you know, she's like finding her groove, you know, in a totally new way right now. But like in the first like month or something, like every time she would be like, you know, like deep, like deep side. I mean, breastfeeding is the most challenging thing I have ever seen another human person do.

And, you know, she would be like breastfeeding and she would like make this noise of like, you know, like just like to feed or he wasn't, you know, he wasn't latching the way that she wanted to. And I was like, they're already fighting. Like it's just like, it just. like the secret language said, they're already fighting about the latching. She actually nailed it. But, you know, it was just, it's like, it really, I don't know, I hope he's, hope he's never, is mean to me. Yeah, I want to look at that. The secret language of birthdays. My favorite thing to do is really just like, every time we hire someone, Sarah's like, could be like our merchandise person on the road or, you know, we have a new record coming out in,

like a few days and it's like every single person we hired. Like, I was like, do you want to be on the production call? We're going to meet the whole team, lighting director, whatever. Sarah's like, like, no, can you just get everyone's birthdays. Yeah, I do like to check. I do like to check in to see. if we're going to get along. What's your birthday? You guys are both Virgo. June, we are.

We're the same way. Oh, yeah. That's the first thing I look at. September 19th. Oh my God. Oh, that's Breyer's aunt's birthday. I'm August 25th, so I'm on that early. Oh.

She's a Canadian. Interesting. Yeah, my daughter's aunt in September 19th. What? June 24th. Mine's the 20th. Really? Oh.

Wait, the 24th. Gemini, right? No. He's cancer. He's cancer. Oh, cancer. Yeah. Yeah.

Just at the beginning of cancer. How interesting. Yeah. I thought two, Virgos was interesting. Which were, oh, that your Virgo's? I thought you guys both being Virgo's is interesting because... Well, they're definitely both Virgo's because they're twins, but you're talking about me?

No, I'm talking about them. Right. Yeah, well, this is just something because I'm such a prying, curious person. Yeah. Was it your egg? Oh, it's... Are you open about that? Yeah, yeah, totally.

Yeah, no, I'm happy to share. We used a donor for the sperm and then it was... Stacey's egg. Got it. Yeah. So. I'm curious. He looks a lot like Sarah.

It's very interesting. It is. It's become this funny thing where we like all been laughing because we're like, he looks a lot like Stacy. Like what if we just told everybody it was Stacy's egg, but it's actually what it is true. Every single person that sees pictures is like, he really looks like you. He does look a lot like Sarah.

Like there are certain features that we're like, oh, this is really convenient because Sid does look like Sarah. But it also, he's like a dead ringer for like two male family members of Stacey's like, you know, like I'd pick up, I pick that baby out of a line. not. Yeah, like, no problem. He does. Like, yeah, I don't know. It's like genetics are funny. Like, when Stacy and I started the fertility process years ago, the first doctor that we saw was like, obviously it, you can, one of the benefits of this, like, it's obviously it sucks that you guys can't just like try naturally to have a child. We have to start from here. And I think she was

trying to like give us like a silver lining type situation. And she was like, you can double the amount of eggs too. Like Sarah, if you want to like, we can do your eggs and we can do Stacy's eggs and I was like, I'm doing my ex. Absolutely not. And, you know, and she can't get her driver's license. I was like, no, hey, I'm very accomplished. I've decided not to get my driver's license until very recently I got my driver's license. Congratulations.

Congratulations. Yeah, don't congratulate that. Do you hear that little sneaky thing where she said I started the process? Well, I mean, I've started the process, meaning like once you get, it takes years in Canada to get your license. It does take a long time. I got the, I'm at the first level and now in, in February, I'm like, I'm, allowed to take my next test to get the next level. So it's hard. It will be three years before I can get

my like full license. It's crazy. But anyways, I did not care. I felt nothing, nothing specific about having a child that was genetically related to me. And even there was a few moments in the process where like, you know, they would come back and be like, are you sure that you don't want to, you know, extract your eggs and do it? And I was like, no, I don't. Like I have no desire. I really wanted a child that was of Stacey's genetics. Like I felt like that's what I wanted. Like, do I wish that we didn't have to use like some Rando's sperm? Like, of course.

But, you know, like, I wouldn't, like, if the equation is that, that we get to use Stacey and me, that's a different equation and magical. And I hope that that eventually is something that women, same-sex partners can access. But like, in the equation, I didn't want to take away Stacey so that I could add myself. Like, I just really felt strongly that, like, that would make me feel. very connected to Sid and I think it's like I love it I love and I feel very connected to him like I don't feel like I look at him and I think like well you're just you know whatever you're some random baby that lives in our house now like you know like I feel pretty connected to him so I hope so yeah so far so

good so far did it at all though for you now that you have him were you more open to like oh I could go next or no okay if anything actually I'm like this he's so cute that I'm like I think we should really stick with what we started with. Like, I just, now I wouldn't want to, like, use my egg and then it would, like, a hideous, like, baby comes out or, like, he's really cute. I'm very vain. I'm fine with saying it. I'm, like, he's so cute.

And he seems excellent. He's just, he's really even-tempered. He's so sweet. He's so charming. He sleeps through the night. Like, we're going to try my egg and the thing's going to come out and just be, like, a huge dick and just, like, and, like, funky-looking or something. And I'm just going to be like, sorry.

Oops, sorry. Sorry, wrong egg. Yeah. Very wrong egg. You're like rotten egg. I have insecure eggs. You know, like I just, I don't think I want to do it. No, if we do and if we did it again, we would definitely, I think, you'd say.

Yeah. I mean, the pressure of it, I get that. Because like, for me, if I feel any pressure, I'm like, this is all going to go terribly just because. Oh, yeah. This is why I partnered with Stacey is because she is like objectively better than me. You know, she's like, she's healthier. She's taller. She's nicer.

kinder, more, you know, just consistent. She's got, I just think she's great. She's over here and she's shaking. Yeah. Awesome. Like, I'm like, no. Let's put my head in. Let's put my eggs in.

Yeah. Let's just, you know, like, I mean, I, look, I have my charms and I have my, there's pros and cons, but like, she really has way more strengths than, than weaknesses in the strength column is a lot more stuff that I appreciate. So I'm glad Sid is of her. But I mean, my, I feel like I'll have, like, a big influence on him. him in terms of his personality and, you know, like how, what he'll experience in the world and what he'll learn. Like, I don't, I don't have any insecurities about that.

That's good. That's so good. And if he sucks, I'm like, it's not mine. You have that card to pull. I don't know. No idea. Oh, my God. That's so funny. So how do you feel about kids? Yeah. I mean, it's been a really cool experience watching Sarah and Stacey go through it. I mean, also, like so many of the queer people I know, like it's such a process, you know? And I mean, I know some, you know, heterosexual couples who've gone through the same process because they've had to use it in vitro and stuff. But it's like a whole process. And I can attest to the fact that he's very cute and even tempered and good natured so far. But you never know. And it's only four months.

Yeah, for me, I went through like a very short phase where I thought I was going to have children. I was with somebody who really wanted to try and we tried and it didn't happen. And then the next person I partnered with was like desperate to. have a child and um and thankfully i was not swayed and we broke up and now i've been with sophia seven years and one of the first things we bonded over was that we didn't really want to have kids and she's six years younger than me so i always leave the door open she's only 35 so i'm like you know she could she's very in love with sid and is very obsessive about him and so i think she's getting her cup filled as they say like from the experience of being an aunt but i suppose there's always a

chance she could come in and be like, I want a child and then we'd break up. So, just kidding. No, I'm not really like that. I got a dog two years ago. What kind of dog? What kind? She's a border collie German Shepherd. Oh, that's, that keeps you busy. Yeah. And it's been like emotionally very hard and it's like really, it's very, it's dysregulated me. Like to the point where like I'm still recovering because I think when you're like 39 years old and you have only ever been really living for your, like, you know, doing whatever you want. And Sophia and I travel a lot. And we're both very, like, nomadic and adventurous

and really independent. And then we got the dog. And it was like every four minutes, was like, did she poop? Did you get the poop bags? Did you get this thing? It's time for her to poop. Did you do food? Did you do training? And I was like, I'm going to murder suicide us. Like, this is insane. I can't. This is, I can't. We were writing

our new album. And I was like, the dog went through a phase where I couldn't sing around her or get the guitar, she would flip out. She almost jumped through a window one time. And like, people I know are like, I will say my dog is beautiful. Oh, I'm sure. And she's amazing. And we've spent, like, practically the down payment of a condo training and, like, you know, all these things.

And I love her. And it's, I'm so happy now on the other side. Like, she's two years old and she's, you know, really changed and stuff. But, like, I don't understand why anyone would get a puppy. Oh, no. I'm with you. It's so hard. I've talked about this before.

My daughter, all she wanted was a dog. two years ago. Oh, no. Got a puppy for Christmas. What kind of dog is? I call her a shit poo. She looks exactly like that stuffy. She's a shit poo.

Yeah. And I'm not kidding. And you can Google this. It exists. I had post puppy partom. Really? Swear to God. I hated this dog.

Yeah, like, walk me through some of the things that you felt. I was like, why the fuck did I do this? Yeah. This thing is keeping me up all night. It's not a baby. I did the baby. My kids well past that now.

I'm already on the other side of this. Yeah. Why the fuck? am I doing this for this dog. Like I hated her. Yeah. Wanted to murder her and she was the cutest little fluffy thing in the world. Doesn't matter.

It does not matter. I'm like, I got to get up at 3 in the morning. She's crying. She's pissing on the bed, shitting on the, you know, I'm just like, no. Yeah. Now imagine she's like 50 pounds and reactive on leash. Like about to jump through windows. Like nobody can pet her if she's on leash.

And like people want to pet her because she's so cute. And we're constantly like, please don't touch our dog. she's an attack but I'm just like leave my dog alone. Yeah. And yeah. Do you have a lot of property? Because I feel like they need to like do things. We yeah.

Those kind of dogs. Yeah. You need like a herd. Yeah. We got cattle. Yeah. I mean, I've talked so many people. Like I am that person now.

Like don't do it. If I see someone that I barely even know but we follow each other on Twitter and they're like, I'm thinking about getting a dog. Give me the deets everyone. I'm like DM them seconds later. And I'm like, do not get a puppy. Do not get these breathes. Like, do not.

No. Do not do this. You know, we do, my partner and I did, we did buy a place on an island off the coast of Vancouver. And we have like, not the whole island, just half acre, but it's enough for the dog. It's a dream. It's like my biggest luxury in life. It's been incredible and it was very helpful with the dog. Yeah.

But it's, yeah, it was really challenging. It was really, it was really inspiring too. And when we were writing our new record, Sarah kept being like, right about the dog. Like, don't. It doesn't have to, no one has to know you're writing about the dog, but like, write about this choice you made and all the things that's done for you. And, you know, because for me, so much of my life has been for Sarah and I, like, you know, our band rules our existence. You know, our calendar goes 18 months into the future. And in a weird way, all my relationships have come second to Sarah. And when I met Sophia, it was like we were just about to start a record cycle. And then basically for the last five years, we've been off. road because we wrote a book and then the pandemic and all these other things. And so my life was really feeling like mine for the first time ever. And it was like so exciting. And we got a dog. And I was like, oh, my dog. Now my dog. Now my life's for my dog. Fuck you. And it's a dog. And I love her so much.

He got stuck by a wask the other day. And I'm like, wept. Her whole face swelled up. And I'm here and they're at home. And Sophia FaceTime me. And she was like, what do I do? And I was just like, started to cry. And I was like, this is why I can't go on tour anymore. You know? Like, I just was like, That's your baby. Yeah, I can't imagine, like having a child. I don't know what, like Sarah's bringing the whole fam out. Like, they're all coming on tour with us. Yeah, I was gonna say the baby's gonna go on tour?

Yeah. Yeah. You're bringing the dog? No, but I'm thinking about, like, maybe. Just get it like a vest, like it's a service dog or get it certified. Yeah, she's good now. We just did all this train. She could like, she'd do, once she's off, I just, just for the record that she's off leash and

like, she needs to consent to touch. So if she comes over to you and she's like sitting next to you and pushing up against you, it means like pet me. But like, if Rob, example, got up and, like, leaned over and tried to, like, go, like, give her love to her face. Which is what people do? Yeah. Yeah. Don't do that. What would she do? She probably, well, now she would accept it because we did a lot. We did seven weeks of training. But before she would bark. And then if you kept at it, she would, she might give you a little, like, snip. A nudge.

Yeah. We call it a nudge. Do you mind when people ask to pet or do you appreciate that? I love it. You should ask. I agree. You should never touch someone's dog with. That's what I teach my kid. You never just go up to any dog. Yeah. You should always ask. People do, though. And I'll be honest, it'll never happen. And people are going to come from,

we've said some controversial things, but this will be the thing people will be mad at. Don't try, you shouldn't pet a dog on leash. When a dog is on leash, the dog is working. So what you want a dog to do on leash, which most people won't spend the time and energy to do,

is you want your dog in, you know, under your control and working, you know, whether they're in a heel, unless you tell them, like, we say go pee-pee, which means she can sniff to her heart's content. We do what forest walks for an hour, and she sniffs the whole time.

But when I say heel and she's at my side, she's working. Her ears go back and she goes into work mode. Like I run 5K with her and she's like in work mode the entire time at my heel. So when you come up to someone and you say, can I pet your dog? You're asking, like, can your dog come away from whatever you're,

whatever command you've given them? And so yeah, you have to ask. But like, ultimately you probably just shouldn't ask. You should just leave the dog. You're like, don't ask me. If you see me with my dog. Yeah. Don't ask.

I'm the worst though. I'm always like, okay, sure, but we have a command. We say, Georgie, say hi, and then she will go to you. I actually think it's for the best that Teagan doesn't have children. I'm just going to say, like, you're teaching Sid this? Like my God.

We had to. We had to do this because she didn't like it. People would, like, right from when she was a puppy. She was, you know, she wasn't. Am I teaching Sid not to touch the dog? I mean, probably soon. I mean, well, Tegan, Auntie Tegan will be doing it. She's going to, as soon as soon as Sid gets some language.

Yeah, we have a whole thing to introduce the dog. a child. It's a whole thing. Anyway, yes, you should always ask to pet someone's dog. And also, while I'm at it, you should never let your dog say hi to another dog on leash. It's so dangerous for your dog. You have no idea what the other dog is like. And dogs can be really territorial and they can also be really defensive of their owner. And I live in an apartment building where everyone just basically lets their dogs do whatever they want. And I've seen, it's so scary how many, like, attacks I've seen. So if you have a, especially if you have a new dog and you can train them not to do it, the best thing you can do is train your dog not to say hi on

leash to another dog unless you know the dog. But even then, you should wait and just let your dog's have a leash. My little eight-pound asshole is so ferocious on a leash. Like if we're anywhere and any dog, she is a killer. Yeah. I know. She's very scary. Always.

They do? Yeah. Well, I was just going to say little dogs always bark. Yeah. Because she's the stereotype of a little dog. Yeah. She's super annoying. I did a lap.

I love her though. I did a lap of Silver Lake reservoir with a friend of mine who had a little dog. And basically she just had to hold the dog the entire time because every little dog that went by went absolutely nuts. And when I first got there, she was like, you didn't bring George. I was like, oh, how could I even have a conversation? So many little dogs. It's like crazy.

I was like, no. Oh, my God. It's so, it's so funny. We used to always teach. We had a dog that was very scary, not we, a friend of mine. And so when the babies were young, they always told the babies, the dog's hot, don't touch. That's amazing. Yeah, like an oven or whatever.

Yeah. It's hot. Yeah. When a dog is, this just reminds me when your dog, when you have a puppy or a dog and they're scared or something, you're supposed to like go over to the item and be like, good puppy and pet the item like it's a garbage bag or a table whatever they get afraid of so when georgia was a puppy she was reactive to absolutely everything bikes skateboards men topless ladies in the park like everything and topless ladies in the park i know what park are you at i mean yeah it's canada um

but like i saw this video and it was so funny we go by piles of garbage or bikes or whatever and georgia would spook you know she would her hackles would come up and i would go over the bike so embarrassing getting a dog also just like pulled me deeply into the like public sphere I didn't want to be in. So I'd have to like bend down next to the deck and be like, good puppy, good puppy to the bike. And then George will come over and sniff and then tailed her wagon. She'd be okay. And that's how we like broke her of her like fewer bikes.

What I would give to just witness all of these items? I should probably documented the whole thing. That's pretty amazing. Anyway, I'd never heard that. It does bring a lot of attention though, doesn't it? It's kind of annoying when you have a dog. Because people are like, oh. Her dog is the most annoying dog.

What kind of dog is it? Hey. She's a French bulldog. I can't stand her, but I love her when she's at home. But I did just bring her to Rachel's first sleepover, and she pooped and threw up everywhere. Oh, my God. She's a most...

She's annoyed. She's so sweet, and I feel... She's sweet. She is, but she's so fucking annoyed. Yeah. Rachel. I will say that it's harder having a big dog because you do have, like, and mine's only considered a medium-sized dog.

It's scary when you have a big dog, they really do need to be well-trained. They do. Like, my dog needs to be trained. Like, you know, like, you know, like, little dogs are assholes. So you're like, oh, they're little. You don't have to,

and then they're not trained. Yeah, I know. But we could go on for five hours about dogs. I know. I'm like, I'm like, no, sorry, I need it.

You need, yeah, the strawberry needs a boot camp. She does. I think they're untrainable, though, is what I'm starting to think. Frenchies are untrainable. I think all dogs are trainable, but I think,

Strawberry, I don't know that she is. Yeah. Some dogs, I was going to say, but some dogs you just never know because we've done a lot of training with our dog and some things, that's just nature. It's just like you can teach, you can pour all the love in the world into your child and they could still grow up and be a jerk.

Like that's the truth. And so you can pour a ton of training and work into a dog and they could still potentially have some of the quirks that just come inherently in them. And Sarah gave me really great advice a few weeks ago because, you know, we'd had a few incidents with Georgia and I was really stressed out about it. It really created like this fear in me, this anxiety. Like I would feel fearful to go and walk her because I'd be like, what if someone jumps out of nowhere and tries to pet my dog, which does happen? and she went to training and I feel very confident now with my dog

and it made such a difference but the day we were picking her up I was like you know there's a chance like she's always just gonna have some of these ticks and Sarah said can you just accept that can you just accept like maybe the worst case scenario is they'll have to put a muzzle on Georgia

when random people come to your house because they might just randomly try to touch her like is that the worst case scenario because if that's the worst case and it was such a light bulb I don't even think Sarah and I've talked about it but when Sophia and I left I said all my anxiety just went

away. Wow. Like if we have to have like Sarah's kid over and like when like we'll just, you can train dogs to just accept the muzzle and like lots of people do that and I'm like, you know, if that's what we need to do to protect Sid then that's what we'll do because like, you know, kids are erratic and like you just don't know and like you know

never want anything to happen to him and I don't want George I don't want us to ever look at Georgia differently because she behaved in the nature of like a dog like if something happened. It's more training you. Exactly. And letting go like where I was like I love George. I don't. And like, she's great. She's perfect for us.

But if, like, a scenario comes over where we have, like, a ton of people at her house and I can't keep an eye on George, like, you know, it's like, she can't be in the crate the whole time. It's like, is that the worst case scenarios? I have to have, like, a vest on her that says, do not touch me. No, if that's the worst case, then I'm okay. Like, you know, I have a sweet dog who sleeps like a person next to me. It's, like, wonderful.

I think there's this thing. I actually heard this on an episode of the podcast, The Daily, like the New York Times podcast. There was a little girl who had OCD and she was afraid of tornadoes and throwing up. Those were her two big things. And she goes to this camp where they do sort of like almost like sensitivity training around it. But there's this, my one takeaway from the piece, which is really stuck with me is that when she was having these sticky thoughts and their repetitive, like compulsive thoughts about like,

I might get sick, I might get sick, I might get sick. Our natural instinct is to say, like, I won't get sick. I'm not going to get sick. That's not going to happen. like, you know, like to kind of like argue with this like sort of voice that is so persistent. And what she ends up sort of what they sort of like teach her at this camp and the way that she sort of like adopts this really made sense to me. It was like when you're when that voice is like, oh, I might get sick. I might get sick.

It's like I will get sick. I will. I will get sick. That's going to happen. Doesn't necessarily mean right this minute, but I will get sick. And it does something to her brain anyways that connected with, you know, the way that my sort of thoughts can be where it's like, yeah, instead of thinking that I can. somehow stop this from happening? Like worry, worry, worry, worry. I'm going to be able to stop this from happening. It's like, actually, I probably just need to accept that it is going to happen.

And then, like, what happens from that point forward? Like, what, you know, like, how can I sort of, like, set myself up for, you know, when the inevitability is that I get sick? So, like, I'm not worried about sickness, but, you know, I can already sense this with Sid. It's like, I'm not worried about the normal things, probably that other people worry about. But, like, I am a little bit, like, nervous about, you know, the first time that we take them on an airplane, for example, or like a long flight or, you know, we're about to be on a tour together with my family on a tour bus. And like, I'm very worried about him being disruptive. I'm very worried about like he's such, and it's because he's so good.

It's because he sleeps 12 hours a night at home. And it's because he is very easily consoled. And we're in this like really great stage with him where I feel very in control. So of course, now my thoughts are just like, but what if it changes? What if that happens? And it's like, it's helped me to just start to think about it. Like, it is. We're going to have that flight where it's going to probably just going to cry for five hours.

It is going to happen. So it's better for me to like start thinking. about or like, you know, even more existentially, it's like, you know, the other day it came up between myself and Stacey about, she had had a conversation about when we'll have to start talking to Sid about how he was made, something about, you know, like we'll have to have that conversation because that's like his story and he's going to need to know that. And I immediately started with, I was like, I'm thinking about that. And then I started thinking about like, oh, kids are going to like ask him who his dad is and we're going to have to have all these conversations.

And I started to feel anxiety. And I was like, it's important for me now to just start saying when we have that conversation, when that happens. Not like, I hope it doesn't happen and like be nervous about it. And I think like, you know, I think that that is sort of like, you know, watching Teagan with the dog where it's like,

I mean, she has like a dog that can, it seems like I could just like work for the police force. I don't know. It's like one of the most trained things I've ever seen. Like, but she just has a squirk and it's not going to change. It's probably not about acceptance. It's just, it is what it is.

Everybody's dogs for the most part suck. I mean, you know, like they just are, kind of like assholes, but you love them, you know? Yes, yeah. And most people's kids are kind of jerks. I think, like, that's one of the reasons I didn't want to have kids, actually, was that a lot of times I was just like, God, kids are the worse, and their parents are even worse, and, you know, whatever.

And I just, I think, like, you know, we're just, I think you have to be, you want, you want to have a dog, having a little dog that's kind of annoying is very different than having a dog that potentially could cause very serious harm. That is a very different situation. I think Tegan's done everything that she can to be responsible of this animal that could hurt someone and she is and hurt another dog. She is trained the shit out of this dog. She's very worried about it. But like I don't think you need to live in a state of paralysis about it. No, no, of course. That's not healthy. No, totally. Honestly, and that's why your advice was good. And I think it is the

major difference between big dogs and little dogs. Yeah. Like ultimately we poured a lot of time and energy into our dog. But yeah, she just, it's something that doesn't seem to change is that if you are a random person and you pop out of a store and you come racing towards my dog and you grab onto her face, she's going to have a reaction and I'm grateful that we have a really amazing drainer and at least that reaction now is not going to be to nip somebody but you're really asking for it if you do it so don't do it yeah I mean I get it I get where she's coming from I do you feel worried about your kids being reactive kids like like going into the world and doing things that you like it's one thing biting talked a lot about dogs

but like I mean isn't that the same with your children like don't you feel a responsibility for the way that they will like direct their lives and interact with other people like is that an anxiety for you 100% there's a lot of anxiety I think with being a mom parent with kids and it comes in every single aspect of their life. Yeah. You know? But as far as like how she,

my daughter, personally I can speak to my daughter. And then Lou, you can speak on your boys. But how she conducts herself, it's all, like, I'm really proud of how she is.

And, you know, she's very kind and like all these things. So things are going in the right direction thus far. Obviously that could change. But the fear comes from just like life and the exposure and the people and the bullying.

and like everything else that surrounds it. Like kind of out of your control. And that's the hardest thing because you have no control. And it's the acceptance thing again. And it's so hard. Yeah. It's so hard. Yeah.

Lou, sorry. I think that's okay. For me, I've had a harder time with, it's exactly what you're saying. Like, so I'm sober. And in the big book of like in the Alcoholics Anonymous, there's like a whole chapter where it's like, acceptance is the key to all of our problems. And you could relate that to absolutely everything in our lives. If we could just start with acceptance and then we usually walk towards solution once we

do that, right? And out of anxiety. But like with my kids, my one is really well behaved. I don't worry as much about him. Worry a little bit. But my little one, I don't know if I've shared this, Rachel, stop me if I have. But my little one is a little bit cognitively different. And he was throwing his spit at people. And I told my therapist that I was crying. I took him somewhere publicly and I was like holding back my tears because I was mortified that he was like throwing his spit and roaring at people.

And she goes, okay, so you seem to think that's a problem. And I was like, yeah. I do. And she's like, well, to me it sounds like he's a really confident dragon. It lifted everything for me. Yeah. To meet him where he's at and accept, like, accept that he's not going to be like everyone else.

Yeah. Except, like, accept it. Stop trying to look for how to make him like other kids his age and accept who he is and where he's at and he's a confident dragon. Yeah. Yeah, that's sweet. of those quirks, like your dog may always be there. Yeah, no, totally.

It's funny when you said that because our mom is a therapist. And I remember, like, years ago I was going through this breakup and, you know, sort of projected onto a new person was like, I'm madly in love with this person and this is the person I have to be with. And they were, like, lived in a different city, country, were strayed. It wasn't working out. My mom came to visit me and, you know, she was like, tell me all the things that you like about this person.

So I go down the list of all the things that, you know, are driving me crazy. that is love about this person and I want to be with her. And then she's like, and then she's like, and then she's like, and then she's like, and there's this and there's this thing and then that thing and that she does this and then this, and that probably won't work and she lives in a different country. And I do this whole thing. And she was like, you know, it's so interesting because with animals, we just, we kind of just love them unconditionally because they love us unconditionally and we're not in there

being like, well, I really love my cat, if only who is gray, you know, instead of spotted, or, you know, like we're just, we're like, this is like my cat. I got my kitten and then they grew up and now they're my cat and I just love them and accept them and I just, I'm going to take care of them. I just want to say, because it seems I'm just going to go out on the limit based on the last 25 minutes. I'm the only person with cats in the room and I can tell you right now, that is not how I speak about my cats. Just for the record, I have all the same things like I wish Holiday would sit on my lap more.

I wish Mickey wasn't such a whim. To be fair. They both have disordered eating. I mean, I think about my cats all the time, but yes, I understand dogs are amazing. I just want to say for all the cat people listening that we are also sophisticated and we also think about our cats far too often. and continue on thinking about your statement. To be clear, she wasn't saying that we don't think about these things,

but ultimately we still at the end of the day love our animal unconditionally because they need us and we take care of them and we accept them. We might gripe and complain about them. But I think I'm at that part of the journey with Georgia and it sounds like you're at that part or this moment with your therapist with your youngest. It's like where it's like there are certain things

that are going to bother me or might bother me and there are things that are not going to change and that doesn't change that I'm going to love my dog unconditionally, and it doesn't actually kind of change the relationship I have to my dog. Like if I, like, I don't have to love her less. I don't have to do less with her. I don't, you know, like, I'm not trapped. Like, there's a lot of, like, people online, like,

with reactive dogs that talk about feeling trapped. And then there's this point where you realize, like, no, I'm not trapped. Like, there are certain steps that I can take that make it so that, like, I feel safe with my dog and other people are safe with my dog. And my dog is really, you know, great. And so it's like, I think I'm at that part that my mom. was trying to get at with my dog, which is that I cannot change Georgia. I can invest in her and I can do my best and like whatever.

But like ultimately like there are things about her that I'm not going to change and and I'm going to love her regardless. And I feel like I am a control freak. Like that's so clear to me now. I think most people are. And I just like I want everything, you know, and I really like I totally relate around the sobriety part like, you know, like this idea like that we're, I. we're trying to control everything.

And so when we can't control everything, control barely anything, we feel weak or at a loss and we try to gain control by doing whatever it is for some of us that's eating or drinking or whatever these things are. And I think, like, you know, letting go of that and, like, just accepting, like,

things has become, like, a really big thing for me because I'm just like, right, I can't control any of this shit. We're about to go on tour. I can't control anyone gets COVID. I can't. I mean, I can do everything in my power to get to a story.

certain point, but at some point I've got to enjoy my life. Like, I don't know what the show is going to be like. I don't know what the reaction to high school is going to be. I don't know what the reaction to our new album is going to be. And like, I'm going to do my best not to sit and think about any of that. And just instead just be like, what a beautiful view. This is a lovely house that you have. And this property is incredible. And what a joy. How lucky are we to be here and to get to do things like to try to spend more time thinking about that than worrying about the things that I can't change. Yeah. Well, I do have a question on that for you. Because this is one thing that clicked for me recently. So in relation to your dog and my son Shepard, I realized, I used to feel

trapped. I'd be like, oh, I can't go anywhere because he's going to have a fit or, you know, throw a spit at people. And then I realize, okay, no, we can, but I have to adapt to him. Right. And so if we go to a restaurant, I used to think, well, I'm not going to be the kind of parent that would give my kid an iPad and all this stuff. But I realize if I give the kid an iPad at dinner, he's chill. Yeah, that's great. I was, I was upset and working overtime more because I was afraid of what other people thought. And so it's the same thing with the muzzle. It's like, is it wrong for the dog or is it because you're afraid people are going to judge you for having your dog? And like, where is it coming from and how much more can we let go if we're just like, it's not about what

people think? Well, I will just, I'll say that, like one of the things that has been really, interesting to me. And I mean, Tegan has always presented herself as like, I don't care what other people think, and I'm the confident one, and Sarah's the insecure one that worries about all of these things. And it's funny with the dog, because I think it was like you had to admit how insecure the dog makes you truly feel. Oh, yeah. And how vulnerable you feel. And I don't think it's actually just the dog. I think that Tegan had compartmentalized really well or very successfully had come up with strategies in order to sort of like bypass or like, you know, ignore or, you know, sort of like de-escalate certain kinds of feelings

that she was having about insecurity. And so that became the narrative, was like, I'm not insecure. And then the dog just kind of like exploded that part of her where it was like, she's like crying at a, you know, at a dinner table because like her dog barked at some guy who was like, who'd roll your dog? You know, and she's just like beside herself.

And I just thought to myself like, oh my God, that's like, Tegan is finally acknowledging what I think is very human in every person. I don't think it is fair to say somebody's, No, I felt very, you know, it was the first time in my adult life where I felt incredibly judged. And people would have these like intense reactions to me. And it felt extremely, I think you used the word earlier exposed. Like it really exposed because like I think. But I find this ironic. Past under the radar like as twins, but also in our band, like we blend in really well unless we're together.

Then people are like, are you twins? Are you taking in Sarah? Like it's only when we're together. If we're alone, like we just blend in. And I live in a pretty rough. neighborhood and I blend in and I don't have any problems and I just like I love the people and like I do my whole thing and I get a fucking cute ass puppy and everybody wants to pet it and talk to it and touch it and then starts to be reactive and it was it was very destabilizing and it made me feel not only very exposed and insecure about my ability to like take care of another thing and to accept change but then I got into the spiral of like oh I am very obsessed with what other people think about the dog and very obsessed with their reactions and then it was it was just the feedback loop

And what it really touched was, you know, also it lives in this similar world of like, I've spent my entire life feeling like Sarah's behavior is a, like if Sarah behaves badly, it makes me look badly. Which I don't. I never behave badly. Like we're extensions of one another. And that is like a really odd thing. Like because it's like Sarah's every right sometimes to not be in a good mood or to like not like somebody.

But like that like her behavior feels like. And I think that's probably parents and kids. Like it's like this thing where it's like I, I want, I desperately want to be my own person and only responsible for myself. And I can keep myself in line. But the second you have a partner or you have a dog or you have a twin sister or you're in a band with, it's like all of their behaviors and all of their like how the world perceived them, I was like taking that on as like that's how people see me.

That's how people perceive me. She's an extension of me. And I like, or like, or I used to say like, like, there was like an, you know, an extra arm or limb. And it's like I constantly want to cut it off because I'm just like don't know where the girl, you know, people come back and be like, like, oh, you guys are fighting, you know, or, you know, like, or you guys are tired right now.

I'll leave you be, and I'll be like, I'm not fucking tired, you know? And so, yeah. Well, that's annoying. It is annoying, but it's like how the world works. And so with the dog, it was the same. It's like, if Georgia had a reaction, I just made this assumption that people were like, oh, you've got an out-of-control dog, and you don't know how to control it, and you're not putting the time and energy in.

And I remember my mom came last summer to spend time with me on Pender Island, and she witnessed this guy, this group of men on a trail. We were hiking, and they all leaned over. when we were passing and one of them tried to pet Georgia and she barked and the guy was like bitch get your dog under control and I was so proud of my mom she didn't do anything like she didn't react

because like normal I can just see my mom like throwing down on this trail just like we're like these two little ladies out in the middle of forest I was like good job mom just keep walking you know there's like four or five of these guys and they kind of like had to flip out the guy was clearly embarrassed because he'd reached out and like Georgia barked in him and we both just kept walking but that was soon after that where I like had a meltdown

and my mom pulled me aside after that trip and She said, I get it. Like, that's very, I can see that would be very embarrassing for you. And then you feel like, you know, everyone thinks that you've done a poor job with the dog where she's like, I just spent a week with you and you train the dog constantly. And, you know, like, she's so good and she listens so well. And like, she's like, I don't have a clue why the dog did what the dog did. Maybe she felt protective.

Well, maybe the guy was an asshole, clearly. And she was like, get the fuck out of here. Totally. But she was just like, I totally get it. And that was like the beginning of my healing in the dog journey for me was like having someone who loves me and cares about me and knows me so well, like, she was just like, I can see how that, that must be so hard for you because you put so much time. And like, I just felt like such a failure.

You know, but this is all very interesting to me because, and sort of, to sort of like, like, button up what I was going to say about seeing Tegan finally have to like deal with this like really acute insecurity for the first time. Like really like, like, I would say that there was moments of like, almost like drama around it. Like, oh my God, Tegan's like having this really tough time with this dog and how it is impacting the way that she feels, but also how she feels other people see here. And I really saw a parallel to, like, in our career, I have, that has been my reaction to our actual career. Our career is Georgia, you know, like, our career is the dog. Like, I, I find myself feeling

very exposed and very insecure and very vulnerable. And Teigen's reaction to that was to sort of puff herself up and to make herself very large in our career and to be very like, I don't give a shit when anybody thinks. And we're fucking amazing. And this amazing, this record's amazing. And, you know, we're the best. And I was always very like, I don't think I've ever said that we're the best, but I do think we're amazing.

Yeah, whatever. You are amazing. You know, like, she would have this, like, really strong reaction and my reaction to, you know, criticisms and, you know, put an album out. I always, like, I just feel dread. I have dread when our new record comes out because I'm like, oh, God, people write about us

and critique us and I feel misunderstood and I feel judged and I feel all of these things. And it's like, I think that that, like, that personality or that, like, character trait that Teagan has always seen in me, I think it lives in all of us. I think it's just how we adapt. You know, how we, Tegan's adaptation was to make herself really big and sort of ignore all this stuff or put it aside, compartmentalize it, whatever. And mine was to be like, I'm going to look at that. I'm going to live in, I'm not going to hide from it. I'm going to go

to the dark room and I'm going to read all the bad press and I'm going to know what people think about us. And the difference, I think, is that for a large part of my, that's just who I am. Like I'm scared of something, I look it up. I don't avoid it. I don't. I'm like... But that's like saying you're... I have a bump in my leg and so I googled it and I looked at all the scary stuff and so I'm probably dying.

No, no, no, no, no, no. Who cares what a random journalist thing? No, no, no, hold on. This is the thing, but hear me out. Because I think that's, that's always been your reaction to my, my desire to know what is in the basement. What is in the dark room? What is the thing that I'm most afraid of? I have to confront it.

And I think the difference is... One scary 45-year-old... indie rock journalist. No, no, but like, let me get this out. Let me finish it. I think what happened was through my 20s and 30s. You know, I did that. And I think that I, you know, I struggle to figure out like, what's the next step after

that? I was less scared. You know, I was less like, I wasn't worried about it. I wasn't like filled with doom and gloom thinking like, oh, God, but what did they think? I knew. I knew what people thought. I knew what people felt.

And it made me feel less, less afraid of it. But it didn't necessarily always make me feel good. Like, you know, I didn't know how to like to make my. myself feel better about it. But I think like this sort of idea of like, you know, what I said to Tegan about like, you know, what if that's just what you have to accept about Georgia? And it's like I have come to a place where I accept that the way that people see me and see my band is never going to be the way that I want it to be. It doesn't matter if someone tells me that I'm so lucky and I've had this wonderful career and they're jealous because you know what,

this review is actually great and see it a different way, Tegan, every single time we get a review. But like I, I'm never probably going to do that. That is not who I am. and I can't kind of like undo that. So I'm going to just accept that like probably I will always feel a little bit like I wish people, I wish instead of people thinking we're a good band, I'm going to always wish that people saw us as a great band. Or, you know, people really liked our book. Well, I wanted people to like love our book. You know, like I'll always, that's who I am.

Like that's just kind of how I am and I'm okay and I'm just going to like accept that now. And I think like now I feel less, like I feel less misery around it. I totally get that. Like I still get a little pang of like when I read like the other day, our managers sent us a couple of reviews from the UK and like they're fine, you know? And I like had that little pang in my body so familiar all these years, 25 years of reading stuff. And I just,

I felt like that familiar thing. And then I just was like, that it is what it is. You know what I thought when I saw those? Sarah and I went to therapy all last year like so that we didn't break up our band basically and to help us find new managers. And but she did this thing after like months of talking. to us where she was like, you guys are like, you guys want exceptional. You expect, you're,

you expect a lot. Like, and you first and foremost, you start by just expecting of yourself and of each other. Like, you're very, you're aiming for like exceptional and extraordinary all the time. And like, that's, that's fine. But she was like, but that's hard. That's exhausting. And it's also really unrealistic. And you're, it's hard that you're doing that to yourselves and each other. Like, that's clearly hurting each other sometimes, but that you're looking for exceptional. all the time and extraordinary all the time in the people around you. Like that's also like pretty unrealistic and also hard on them. And she was like, can you guys be okay with good enough?

And that just like became like I think for both of us in a lot of ways has become like the mantra of the last year of our life, which is just like can we just aim for good enough? Like you can always climb a little bit higher. And I hear what Sarah's saying you can always want more. But like good enough has become because good enough is pretty great. Yeah. You know, like which I know is me doing the thing that I do.

like, I read her first. She's literally doing it. She's like, now she's like, I'm here and she's like, but we're here, but like, isn't that also here? Yeah. And I'm like, it's not for me. It's not. No, but I have started to be like, I don't know, like, good, like, let's look for good

enough, you know, like in ourselves and the work and like, because I do feel like if maybe a little bit like what that is goes back to everything we're talking about, some of this is just about letting go. And when you're letting go and you aren't gripping it so tight, you finally can see the beauty and you can really truly start to enjoy it, you know, and you can really just start to lean back in it. Like sometimes now I leave things and I'm like, yeah, it's good enough. And I laugh because I think of our therapist when she said that. But I also think this probably is good enough. And like, you're right. Like we won't be ever be genius band and like, you know, we're not going

to be the Beatles. I don't want to be the Beatles. But, you know, like it's, but it's good enough. I just for the record I don't want to be the Beatles. Now here is the most controversial thing I've said on this podcast. I just don't get the Beatles. Like, it's just not for me. It's not for me. Come at me. Like, I don't care. You know?

And you talk about the Beatles to people, especially guys. Like, if I say that to a guy. I don't know. It looks devastated. Men are always like, but have you listened to the white album? Have you heard this song? And I'm like, it's kind of like when you, when I was 20 and I started coming out publicly. And I'd be like at a bar and a guy would be like, you know, well, what do you do?

You know, have a drink. And I'd be like, yeah, but maybe you just need to meet the right guy. That's how I feel about the Beatles. Everyone's like, but have you heard the white album? Have you seen this penis? I'm like, it's not about the penis and it's not about the song. It's just, I don't know what to tell you. It does nothing for me.

It does nothing for me. The Beatles do nothing for me. Has that always been true your whole life? Yeah. Like, I'm not, I just, they do nothing for me. I'm sorry, you know? And it's like, I say this to people. And it's just, it's like, I can't believe the reaction, you know?

How do you feel about the Beatles, too? I don't think I have a strong opinion about the Beatles. I like that. I like a lot. a lot of the early Beatles music, like when it comes on. She's agnostic. I'm like, I'm an atheist. And Tegan's like, I don't know.

Maybe there's God. You know, like, I'm just like, I don't feel anything about the Beatles. I don't hate the Beatles. So who's your like ultimate then? Oh, that's so hard. Sorry, you were going to say something. It's so hard. I was going to watch that new documentary.

Yeah, I couldn't get through it. No, but I watched like two hours of it. I like them enough to watch two hours of them sitting in a room. Well, you were just waiting to see what was going to happen. Fucking basic. You guys are basic. It's like you saw a, it's like you saw a 12. any second clip on Twitter

of like Paul McCartney writing the like the riff of that popular song and you're like sit down and pop myself and pop barn and I'm going to watch this six hour video that's a surveillance camera

of those guys whacking off or you know whatever no boring don't care I think for me the Beatles also just encapsulate a time

so like when I hear it it takes me to that moment but there's probably other bands from that time that you guys would be like oh that's the ultimate right or no or is it more like

I mean, even in this show, even in your show, all the music in it is so good because it's music we grew up with. Exactly. Right. Yeah. Maybe this is just generational. Exactly. We're all like from the 90s or teenagers in the 90s. So like we all like it just transports us immediately.

Like even if you haven't listened to 90s music. Rob doesn't understand. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of people graduated from like it like I think it was completely normal that I didn't like the Beatles when I was. 15. Oh, gosh.

I thought we were trying to get off the Beatles here. No, no, no. I'm answering the question of like... The ultimate. The ultimate. Got it. So I think it was totally normal

as a child not to necessarily be interested in the Beatles. But I think it is assumed that, especially because we're musicians, that it's sort of like, you know, being a writer and not being interested in the greats or something like that. And I've always found that to be really sort of patronizing because as a musician, you know,

like what influenced me and what interested me feels great. You know, like I think about like all the music you know, like from the 90s, that was very popular. That is very, like, I think a lot of us really loved, like, Nirvana and Smashy Pumpkins and Hole and the breeders and all of these things. But where I went, instead of to the Beatles after, you know, high school, I went to bands like, you know, Fugazi and My Bloody Valentine. And, you know, I got into, you know, I got into electronic music and analog, like,

old school kind of like, you know, dance music and sampling and all of these kinds of things. And I, like, went where my heart wanted to go. And, like, that's what informed me. And I just, when people would be like, what about the Beatles? And I was just like, I don't know. I don't have time for that. You know, like, I'm listening to like, fuck the pain away by peaches.

Like, I just was like, you know? Like, I just was like, I'm not going to like sit down. Like, have an asymmetrical haircut. It's 2003 and I'm in Montreal like going to like, you know, clubs and eating butteen. I wasn't like, and now let's go listen to the white album. Like, it just didn't connect with me. I was like queer and like interested in other kinds of things. And so I was drawn into those things.

And so there's just never been an entry point for me where I was like, I have some spare time. So I'm not like get into the Beatles. Like it just doesn't, you're right. Like there is actually like, I think if it, if it connects to a time in your life and it's sort of like engenders certain types of like positive vibes, I'm not trying to like, you know, shit on it. I just like, I think there's just so much music in the world and it's just like the Beatles just never penetrated for me. I was just about to make a dick joke and then I just was like, but that wouldn't be accurate. But it wouldn't be accurate. It wouldn't.

It wouldn't be accurate. Our parents were like also like a little bit like they didn't listen to the Beatles. Right. I'm sure if we'd have. What were they listening to you? in the household. Like Bruce Springsteen. Oh yeah, me too.

You know, like, Toriamos. They were like the big, you know, 80s like anthem people, like you two and Bruce Springsteen. You guys did. Too old. That was too old.

No Bob Dylan, no, No, No, noy Mitchell, none of that. Without, we all done. No. No. We discovered all that afterwards. No.

Really? Yeah. My mom loved Kate Bush. She loved, uh-huh. She loved. Bowie was really big in our house. Like, McDonnelly was obsessed

with Dave Bowie. Like a lot of that, like Led Zepplin, super tramp. Mm-hmm. Well, that was when they were in the 70s. Like when they were teenagers. But I'm saying like that's what they played in the house.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's what we were influenced. Like I can remember when Bruce or stuff that moved in with us and you brought his record collection and like them, you know, being downstairs and like putting on Alice Cooper and, you know, like that stuff for us. And, you know, like that stuff for us. So like, I think they just missed. Like I think the 60s was probably like a little, that was just a little. They just didn't play it for us.

So it didn't influence us in any way. Yeah. But I think like, you know, like you guys like the 90s hit and it's just like that that is our, will forever be. the music we grew up on. And so like it's just powerful to me. Like getting the green light on the TV show, probably 50% of the excitement was for Sarah and I like the idea that like we were going to get to make this love letter to the 90s and, you know, we got to share about the music that we listened to. And it was like a real journey getting all that music licensed because like the first pass of like how much it was going to cost. It was like a third of the entire TV budget.

And we were like, okay, we're going to need to talk some of these bands down a little bit. Like we had to write a few letters like, you know, because we're like, look, this is a queer show written and directed by queer women, you know, like about queer women and artistry and we need these big anthems. We need Nirvana songs. And we cannot pay the money that, oh, wow.

You know, like, because it was just like, I think what's so cool about the show, even detaching it from us, is that, like, think of how many times you've seen women making music on a TV show depicted as creatives. Like, how often do we see women making things,

especially music? It's always men, you know? It was the same thing when we sold our book. It was like, publishers were like, well, so why, why your memoir and we're like well it doesn't have to be ours can it just be any woman because there's like very few

titles out there you know because we get Bruce Springsteen and Bob Dylan and Neil Young and the Beatles like every year have a new book coming out every six months and people are like well no but I have a new thing to say about the Beatles which is fine which is fine but it's like you know for us we were like I saw this comment actually online today

we're like in response to our show like you know like just like oh great another show about like you know two teenage white women or whatever and I was just like, totally get you. Like, absolutely. But, like, this is a queer coming of age story. And it's about identical twin.

Like, basically the person was like, oh, we've seen this a million times. I'm like, well, actually, quite frankly, this might not be your bag. This might not be not. It's not for everybody. The show is literally not for everybody. I think it could be, but I get it. Some people are just, like, not going to find their connection point. But actually, you've never seen this show because how many shows about identical twin girls,

like, who make music or any music. Like, there's, like, maybe five or six that I can think of about women and music that have existed. And I just like had this point where I was like, you know, it was so important to us to get these big huge, get Green Day and get, you know, like these big 10 pull artists into the show because like that is what we were listening to.

Like, because we were also listening to Riot Girls and we were listening to like the breeders. We were listening to all that stuff too. But it was Kurt Cobain and Nirvana that made us want to play music. And it was like the way Hollywood makes a girl music show was that they would show a woman and be like, and the girl was listening to the girl.

And so she was, and it's like, no, we were like dirtbag stoners. And we were like listening to, you know, Courtney Love and Nirvana. And we were like, we wanted to be like them. And so we need them. You know, we need them in the show. It had to be that. It had to. It had to.

To make it real, because otherwise it wouldn't have been the story. I mean, I was watching it just going, oh, my God, this was us. This was us. My is the identical twin. Yeah. the queer part, but the dropping the acid, the music, they're like trying, like just trying

so hard to lose ourselves every day, you know, and being a latchkey kid. Like, I really identified with your guys as whole. They're just about passing notes in school. Yes, passing notes. And then you would stuff it in the teddy bear. Yeah.

Did you really do that? I did. It wasn't a teddy bear. It was a dog. It was actually a sheep dog. Wow, this is a twist, actually. It was a dog I used to I used to I used to shove

my notes inside of a dog there you go I had a stuffed animal not an actual little dog I was gonna say like a real dog

what is there this giant sheep dog like a stuffed animal stuffed animal yeah and I used to hide my notes in there

I started actually my favorite my favorite hiding place god kids are so stupid my first hiding place was like was like

I would take off of I would take the heat vents out like off of the wall and would like stuff my notes and drugs. And then I realized, like, it's Canada, it was winter. Like, the hot air wouldn't come out of the event. You know, like, I was blocking, essentially creating, like,

I was blocking the hot air event. You're a fire hazard. So then I was like, that doesn't, that's not good. And so then I, yeah, then I started, um, then I started, um, that I started, um, that I started, like, like stuff inside of them. But we went and toured our, the home that we live in in 10th grade on the show. We actually went to the real house, um, uh, like a couple years ago, right before the pandemic started. And we toured it with a documentary crew because we were going to make a little documentary to come out with a book, which never happened. But the family that bought the house from us still live in it, and they brought us up to their son's bedroom, who's now an adult, but still lives at home, is going to school. He's a musician, which we found very freaky and weird, but it was

Sarah's bedroom that we went into. And they said that after we moved out, that all the neighbors came and they were like, oh, there were these twin girls that lived there and they used to sneak out in the middle of the night and climb down the garage. Everybody in the neighborhood knew we were up to no fucking good except for our parents. No, you know, it's so great. Actually, one of my favorite moments. And he also, the son admitted he used to hide his contraband in the register as well. Yeah.

And he was, yeah, he was really funny to see my room and just have him be like, yeah, I don't know. I was like, never really sort of knew what I wanted to do. And then I was about 15 starting high school and I decided I wanted to make music. And I was 15 in this exact room when I decided that I wanted to make music. But my favorite moment was we went down the hall to Tegan's room. and the daughter whose bedroom it was, her name is Stacy, weirdly, since my partner's name is Stacey. But Stacy was telling us, like, in high school, I was a fan of your band, and I used to listen to your music in this bedroom.

She was like, you know, our whole lives, we knew that twin girls had lived in this house before us, but we never knew that it was Tegan and Sarah. We're like the most famous people in Calgary, you know? Like, it's just like this very funny origin story that she only found out as an adult. She was like doing her, she's doing her like math. master's degree and like, you know, like, it doesn't live at home anymore, but she came for the tour. And she was like, yeah, totally used to listen to Teagan and Zara in this bedroom. And it's just so weird to me because it's still Tegan's bedroom, you know, so I just like, but I feel like it was like the ghost of us was still there or something.

That's so cool. They're the nicest people. The house still looks like almost identical. Like, was painted this very specific royal blue color, like all the walls, very 90s. And then the carpet in most of the house is hardwood, but the carpet like on the stairs and in the bedrooms is blue. And then my mom had made, like, had hands, like had sewn all the like, what do you call them that go above the windows? The balance. Valances. Like, they're all still the same. And they just, it's like almost like they've been living in it. Wow, time capsule. Yeah, like a time capsule. And it was perfect for us because we were able to bring like the production

designer and all the like crew and Clea and everybody through the house. And we were able to really give them a sense, not like just through pictures and through archival materials, which we have an abundance of. But we were like, this is literally the, space. Like this is how it flowed and this is sort of like where we would how like, like, you know, like what the neighborhood felt like and it was, you know, it was amazing and elements of the show, elements of the sets that they built have really specific details that are like exactly like what it was like in our, in our house. That must have been a trip. Yeah. And how lucky too. And to create this show and everything and have that time capsule

and like really get to emulate it on the show, which I'm so excited to start because now it's out. I'm, I can't wait, especially the time. I'm more the same generation. Like, grew up the same, which is just so cool. And like I said, I'm still so fucking thrilled that you guys came to talk to us. Because I, it's been a pleasure. I mean, the biggest fans, Olivia, and I'm for so long. And we, like, when we're wrapping up these interviews, we play a little game. Okay, great. Mary, Barry, One Night's Dance. Mary Barry One Night's Dan. Okay.

Fucked Mary Kim. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, I've been a little gentler with it. Yeah. Because some people are like, if I say that, like, that's so fucked up. Or some people are like, fuck yeah, I'm going to fucking kill that motherfucker. Okay.

Anyway. Olivia, would you like to give them their options? I got to refresh who they were. Hold on. How do you guys choose the options? Five minutes before. Five minutes before. And Rob is always trying to say these really obscure.

people we've no clue who they are and he's like Stephen Ewan was one of the obscure but everyone we say he's like you're so old they're so old they pick like I don't even know who it's always like Harrison for right like an older gentleman he's not 25 year old

whatever yeah I stand by my choice I do too yeah every time we pick someone like with yours he was like naming these young people I was like no no there are age we can name are people. She did. She was like, listen. Okay.

Great. Great. Courtney Love, Mazzie Star, and Tori Amos. We have to choose one or we have to do it for all of them. You played the game. You have to pick one of those things for each of those people. So you marry one. I wonder if you guys will do the same.

Okay, hold on. Let me just think about this first thing. So it's Marysie Star, Courtney Love, Courtney Love, Tori Amos. And Tori Amos. Is it Amos or Amos? Amos. Shut up, Bill. Courtney Love One Night Stand.

Wow. Who are you going to kill? God, this is hard. I think I have to kill Toramos. Wow. And I think I marry Massey, sorry. I support it. No, is that what it is?

You did a One Night Stand with Courtney Love. Thank you. Okay. Okay. I'm going to kill Courtney. Yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to bury Courtney. Because I think that she's like I can't have a one night's down with her

and I can't marry her. I just don't think that she can be caged. You know what I mean? I get that. So it's best for all of us if we just bury her. Massey Star, I don't really know anything about

personal about Massey Star. So I guess. So beautiful. So I'm going to say like one night stand. Okay. And then yeah, I'm going to marry Tori. Yeah.

For sure. She probably has like some fucking dope-ass huge property for me in Georgia to move on to. Georgia wouldn't ever even, like, we could get sheep probably. You could have the herd. Yeah.

There you go. No, this is going to work out great. Maybe she'd be a good third. She'd probably be great. She'd be great. Yeah, she'd be a good third. And Sophia would love her. Wait, this brings up a really important question

that I had in the beginning, which is, did you guys ever like the same girls? No. No. I mean, Sarah's first girlfriend experience was with our shared best friend, but it was like very clear to me that that shared best friend always liked Sarah better than me. So it wasn't like I, like, I didn't have any feelings for her. Like when I was rejected out of the threesome as friendship like stands, like, you know, when it was all

a sudden like I wasn't invited to sleep in the bed with her at the sleepovers anymore. I slept in the brother's room or the guest bedroom. I was like not sad that it wasn't like me getting to hook up with her. But no, we have like very different times. But I do, I adore Stacy. I think it's like a great partner on vacation. Like we're the ones that want to like sit in the sun and like we watch Real Housewives and like, you know. Yeah. You guys are like home. We get a lot very well. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. We always had a different, we always had sort of like a different vibe. I mean, I always, I was, I was attracted. We're attracted. We're attracted. The people we get very intense with are very different. Yeah. I always just say like, I was always like the, at least in high school. I think this is different in adulthood. And I like, we did both date Ashley Rokey at that boy. That's true. We did both date Ashley Rokey and Corey. Do you say that boy? We did a lot of the same boys. Oh, we did the same boys all the time. That's how indifferent. And we just like,

I'm supposed to have a boyfriend and I've been single for too long. It's like grade 10. So I guess I'll date. Which one of you have an idea to get? You can be my boyfriend. Yeah. Boy, we were. Wait, did you have sex with boys?

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. Which is why I know when people are like, oh, thank you love it. And I'm like, trust me. You're like, I've been tried it all out.

It's not the dick. Anyways. That's Sarah's favorite thing to say. It's not, I don't have a problem with dicks. it's the man attached to her, which makes her seem like my mom. It's not even that, actually. It's not even that. I think it's so much more nuanced than that. I just think it's like, you know, like you, just the pheromones and the right, it was just always like, I was like, this is fine. And then I was with girls and I was like, I want to kill myself. It's just like I loved it. Anyways, but so I was going to say about-

Just kill herself in a good way. In a good way. Yeah, we got that. I think they're not idiots. Yeah. Anyways, I think, I was going to say that when I was growing up, I really attached to women who, to me, I felt like had something to teach me. Like we're like, we're like sort of like, you know, like they were either. Classic mommy issues. Well, I don't even know if it's mommy issues. It's probably like, I don't necessarily think of it as a mommy thing.

I think of it as just like, I really liked to be around people who were smart or were really like super, super talented or gifted in some way. And I really, I think it was like, I was trying to figure out how to like get, like elevate myself. Like I was always trying to like, like I knew I was sort of like, screwing up school and I knew that I had potential and I knew I was really smart but I was like really unfocused and so I liked surrounding myself by all the smart kids because then I could keep up with them and that made me feel better. And like my, you know, the second girl that I get like a

really, really, really big crush on in the TV show and in real life, you know, she was this like beautiful, like extremely devoted to like modern dance. Like she was a dancer. She would go to fly to LA every summer and she would like do these like schools and camps and whatever. And she was really like my first experience of like knowing an artist, like someone who was. was dedicated to their craft. And I remember like kind of thinking like that's how I want to be about music. Like I want to like, I want to do that. She, she would say to me all the time, she'd be like, if I could dance every single day. If I could go to, if I could just start, wake up in the morning and go to bed and all I did in between was dance and go to like go to classes or learn

new things. That's all I would want to do. I remember just finding that so romantic, like her devotional kind of tendencies. And I was like, I'm like that about music. I just want to wake up and I saw my music till I go to bed. And I feel like I was drawn to women that were very passionate about like, whether it was like school or it was art, but it was like those kinds of things. And Tegan was so all over the map. She'd like date like the, she'd like date the kid that was like basically like living in a flop house and then she would like date like the girl who'd like never even like had like a beer, you know? And I would just be like, what's happening? Like, you know, like I just could ever keep it straight, you know? Like you didn't really have a

type, I guess is what I'm saying. I don't think I have a type. Yeah. religious, though. You did date a lot of religious people. I dated a lot of religious people. It's bizarre. Yeah. It's bizarre. Yeah.

That's very interesting. I mean as religious. No. I'm not. I'm 100% an atheist, but I've always attracted religious people and dog lovers. I think Tegan likes having disciples. That's what I think it is. She likes people to worship at her.

And so she's like, oh, you let you're into God? Well, here I am. That's a projection. That's not. how I feel. I'm not sure what it is. You guys... I'm together.

Like, it's so amazing and I'm so like just entertained and loving this whole. Thanks for that I just come here and take over your podcast basically. I'm like hyper aware. I don't know.

This is my favorite one thus far. Sorry everybody else. But it's okay. Whatever. Oh, this is the part where we apologize. Sorry, mom. Sorry. Sorry for, we took up a lot of space today.

Yeah. And we didn't probably ask in the car ride home. We'll probably be like, oh, we didn't ask any questions. We're so rude. You're not supposed to. questions? You guys are just here to... You're here to talk. That's what you're here for.

You basically aced it. Thanks. Basically. We'll put it that way. Basically. This was a delight. That was your takeaway. You're like, basically. Basically. Good enough. It's why we can't have a podcast.

It was good enough. Tegan will always be like, we should have a podcast. I'm like, we don't know how to listen. We can be on the podcast. We were built for being on them, but we're not going to ever be quiet enough to like... think I could win if you weren't there. No, I like just the dynamic of the two of the year, though. So it would be good, just... But we only can talk to each other.

Yeah, but listen, come back here anytime and this can be your platform. Oh, okay, okay. Next time we're around. We're happy. Yeah, that's great. We did pitch and develop an idea that was very funny, which was that because we're, we both really believe, we're kind of mansplenary a little bit, like, because we're... No, no one would know that from that section on the dog stuff where you're informing

everything. The baby stuff. No. You just told two people with older children. You've had maybe four months and you mansplained momhood at the beginning of this podcast. I just man-sling. I said they were my observations. I didn't say, what you need to do with a child is.

Well, the same. Never approach a child on the playground. That's just honestly, telling people, don't touch people's children. Telling people, telling people not to like reach out and touch a foreign, you know, dog that you don't know. Oh, my God, I'm dying. But I was going to say that we're efficiency experts. We really think that we like know how to make everything better. It all comes from a good place.

It's not a like, I'm smarter than you. It's more like we go into a store and we're like, oh, no, this whole lineup system is completely, like, this makes no sense. Like we need to, let's move the things over here and like, you know, like we're those kinds of people. Very, very very old. Yeah. Yeah. And so we pitched this podcast where people would come to us for advice, but it's not like an advice show. It'd be like one person.

And then we both investigate their problem separately and then we come back with a solution like each of ours. And then contrast and compare like what each of us has decided would. be the best solution for this person and give advice based on our own life experience. And, um, but we just, we didn't, didn't follow through with that. Because I don't know. I have a guy right here. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. What do you think? Should we do it? I like it. Yeah. You like, the funny part, this like, this is like not usable because like, like, who knows what will happen in this story. I'm not sure if we could even tell it.

But we thought that it would be funny for the podcast was called Heather, you're fine. And it was because a friend of ours. Tegan thought that was funny. I think it's funny. I think it's funny. I think it's because, so a friend of mine was in a band. And. a bunch of friends came to see her play.

She was just like a keyboard player and a big famous band. And when they were leaving the friends and this keyboard player left out the back door, you know, as you do in your band and go past the buses. And there was like, you know, a couple hundred fans out there

and they were screaming their faces off. And when they saw that it was just the keyboard player or whatever, they all stopped screaming. Like, oh, it's not the lead singer guy, whatever, which everyone was fine with this, but it was like a chain link fence that all the fans were pressed up against. And most of the people

who were in the crowd were older. But like there was this mom, up front with her 14-year-old daughter, youngish, like, teenager-y-looking daughter or whatever. And she had, like, her daughter, like, pinned against the fence. And the daughter was, like, her face was, like, up against the... And the girl's like, Mom, Mom, stop.

You're hurting me. And the mom said, Heather, you're fine. So I was like, this is the perfect name for an advice show because it's like, we're not giving you good advice, probably. But, like, Heather, you're fine. Like, just do what I'm telling you to do and you're going to be fine. Oh, my God. I relate to you guys so much.

My mentality in life is just like, you're fine. Like, there was, like, a killer bird in a hotel room and the fan room. when the fan was going and everyone was freaking out. And I'm like, it's just a bird. Like, you're fine. That's very upsetting that the bird was indoors with you. I mean, yeah, right?

But you probably were all fine. We all were fine. And you know what the bird was fine too? Yeah. And but things that if one of us had been there, we would have been like, and here's how you take care of the bird, and this is what you do.

And I'll tell you right now, if only they'd add screens and this bird wouldn't even gotten in here. And everyone's like, ah! For good problem solvers, I think is the log line here. Yeah. Yes.

Yeah. I mean, I'll sign up. anytime because I'm there listening all of it. I just love you guys so much. You're so sweet. Thanks for us. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. You guys are super rad and I honestly love the show.

Awesome. I love it. I hope you go to rest. I think I've one more episode left. My husband's been watching it with me and we had to pause to do this and he was irritated. That's so great. Yeah. In the next two Fridays you get two more episodes because it was eight total show. It's on Amazon, right? Yeah. It's awesome.

Congratulations, you guys are amazing. Okay, so I have walked away. Well, I didn't walk. I'm still sitting. From that interview, like feeling really confident about what I should do if I ever have a large breed dog. I feel good about that.

Yeah, they are so awesome. I could not be more into them. So they started following me on Instagram, and I had like a moment where I felt so fucking cool. I'm like, if my 20-year-old, old self, could feel this right now. I felt you in my legs before I even met you. That is pretty cool.

It's one of their songs. No. Rob, have you ever had anyone follow you on Instagram? Me? They followed me too. Oh, that's so cool. They're so fucking cool. Yeah.

Or someone on their team followed all of us. Oh, that just took away the factor of the coolness. I think it was them. I could see, like, when they said that they were like a gateway for straight women. Yeah. Couldn't you see that? I'm like, totally. Totally.

Were you like, I could date you? Yeah. Were you? Oh, yeah, for sure. I was like, I'm buying that. And if you weren't married, I would go out with you. Yeah. I totally felt that in that moment.

I was thinking in my head, I bet Rachel and I are both feeling the same way. Like we should be on a double date. Yeah. Oh my God. That would be a cute moment. Did you feel that way, Rob? Absolutely. Lou, what were we talking about on the drive home from Rob's the other day?

And we're like, we need to talk about this on the podcast. And we need to keep notes because every time something comes up and then we forget. It wasn't about the sandwiches we were eating while driving, was it? Was it about the sandwiches? Oh, was it about, was it about, was it? about me saying I took a bite of the sandwich? Yes. Okay. It was about the sandwiches.

Yeah, it was the wax paper sandwiches and we had Rachel and I split two halves. And I was driving and I was like, hmm, which one am I going to eat? I'm going to eat both of them. And I took a bite of the like spicy cashew. What is it?

Walnut. Chutty. The chutney? The chutney. Whatever it was. Oh, yeah. Chut. Didn't I say chutney? You called it. Chutney, yeah. I called it a chutney.

It was so... With ham, and he was honey, and it was spicy. It was so flippin' delicious that I stopped myself because Jeff was going to be home. And I was like, this is really good and it's really spicy, and he would love the way this tasted in his mouth. And I'm not going to eat it. And Rachel and I discuss the fact that we believe that that is true love. Thoughts, Rob. That you saved him a sandwich? Oh my God.

No, but it was so delicious. And as she was eating it, she's like, these would really, like, make his taste buds orgasm. Like, this is his jam, right? I mean, that's a nice thing to do for a partner, but... Would you do that if you, like, took a bite of something and you were, like, on your way home, and Natalie was going to be there,

and you knew it was something she would absolutely love. Would you stop eating it and save it for her? Sure, yeah. That won't happen because... she can't have dairy and I almost exclusively eat dairy. Of course, he has to ruin our fantasy story with lactose intolerance. With real facts. Yeah.

I mean, come on. Play along. And when I came home, I brought him the sandwich and he goes... And he cried. He ate it and cried as he was eating it? No, what happened? I want to know what happened. And then made love to you.

I went to the bathroom and I was like... Hab. You know, I had to give him a handjob while feeding him the spicy sandwich. That is like a birthday gift. With spicy chutney on your fingers. Oh, yeah. I'm trying that. No, he was actually really happy.

And he was like, oh, my God, that's so serendipitous because I was starving. And I had him stuck in the room because he had COVID. So he wasn't allowed out of the bedroom. And our nanny was here. so he couldn't go out and make himself something to eat. So he was sitting back here starving. And when I walked in with a sandwich for him, he was like, I really needed that.

Is it spicy? And I was like, it is. It is spicy. Do you like the sandwich? He loved the sandwich. And then I felt bad for eating the other one. So I was like, he would have liked that one too. Well, not to mention the other one that you ate.

Now, we're talking about eating while driving, okay? One was like on a baguette, it was compact, it was easy to hold with one hand and eat while driving. The other one was an explosion of meat. Of cold cuts and lettuce. And we're talking probably the messiest sandwich. But you chose because of the love for your husband and his love of spicy sandwiches. He likes spicy meat. That one's spicy too, though.

It's got a spicy alley on it. She said that she wishes she thought he would have liked that one too. You would have starved. You should have seen me eating this thing with it falling out, me like licking the sauce off the sides, watching gardeners. These gardeners pulled up next to me watching me do it. And I was like, this feels private. That's so good.

And then I was like, I'm too hungry to care. But that's the type of sandwich where everything by the time you get to the last bite, everything is fallen out and all you have left is bread. Yeah, you have to go add it backwards and upside down. That's what I was doing in front of the gardeners, literally, like upside down and backwards and being like, oh, yeah. Yeah, I feel you. But that was our important takeaway from our conversation. After we had been talking for about three hours and then drove home talking to each other for another half an hour. That's what came from our conversation. We're psychos. Yesterday, Rachel and I didn't talk on the phone.

I know you FaceTime her, Rob. We should talk about that. But we didn't talk on the phone yesterday. I know, and that's why you're like asking me about a text. I'm like, yeah, I told you. And we didn't talk yesterday. It was like a day goes by. That's why you're crunchy.

Yeah, Rachel's in a terrible mood today. I am crunchy today. She yelled at her guest. And when our guest left, she was like, I hate this person. We say crunchy when people are, you know, crunchy because my brother would always call if you were, like, in a mood, crunch wrap supreme. You're being a crunch wrap supreme, which is a Taco Bell. Delicious item off of the Taco Bell menu. Or from just what I needed. Or from just what I needed.

Right. You talked about that the other day. That's the vegan version, right? Mm-hmm. So it's fake meat. But it's delicious. I have not had it. We've never done a postpartum, not hungry. ever and to talk about food okay so go on Rob

Rachel's crunchy yeah that's the extent of it she's in a real mood today because I had a missed FaceTime from Rob and I'm like did you just cold FaceTime me

so how do we feel about that how do you feel about when people just FaceTime you? Haven't we talked about this before we talked about it yesterday I know but I feel But I want you to let Rob know how you feel about it. Oh, okay, Rob.

How do you feel if someone just facetimes you? No text before, no announcement. Just boom, face time on the phone. I don't mind it. If it's a good friend, I don't mind it. Well, it depends on who it is. Yeah, of course. I FaceTime someone else right after you because you didn't answer.

Yeah. No, I would answer you, Rob. I would answer you, Lou. I would answer Leah. I'd answer my mom. That's probably about it. But a cold face time is like someone's showing up at your door, not at your door, like in your window yelling at you through the window. No, no, no, no.

Hey, y'all! A cold face time, someone ringing the doorbell like old times and being like, hey, can you come out and play? It is. It's the contemporary knock on your door. Can you come outside to play? How do you feel about people showing up at your house? Are you crazy? Well, you also live like on a hill and it's, it'd be hard to get to your house and just show up.

Would it? Yeah, would it? But when you, like, showed up at someone's house, it was like a neighbor. You wouldn't drive, like, 35 minutes to someone's house and just show up. You might, Rob. Guess how many times I've showed up at someone's house? Like, a boyfriend, friends, anyone. Guess?

Yeah. Zero. Zero fucking times. Right. Same. I would never show up unannounced. Not even to your house, Olivia. I would never just show up there.

But like Jennifer did the other day, she called and was like, are you home? I'm outside. Well, she called you. And she's like, I'm bringing you hot dogs. And like, that's really nice and appreciated. I'm bringing you hot dogs? I don't know. Like, went to a place that serves hot dogs on buns or just like bought raw hot dogs at the market in trouble?

them off your house. I never got the backstory. She dropped me off a chicken. She did drop you off a chicken, but she, I never got the backstory. I just got, I have hot dogs. She knows what hot dogs mean to this household. Wait, but raw hot dogs or like cooked, like hot dogs from like a restaurant. Most hot dogs are cooked already. We know what I mean. No, raw hot dogs, not in buns. Just like a package of hot dogs from the market were dropped off at your house. didn't drop them off because I wasn't home. And I said, Jeff, and the boys are home. And she said, that's too much effort. I don't want to get out of the car. It was a drive-by hot-dogging situation. I've showed up at a friend's house unannounced. That doesn't surprise me, Rob. There's certain people

I'd be down with. Well, but it's like, he lives over by you. And it's, like, I'm in the neighborhood. I've got the kids or Calvin or whoever. But you call first in an announcement. No, no, I just show up. But he like my old roommate in Chicago. So I just went and knocked on his door to see if he was hoping. Things were very different in Chicago than they are here. Well, and then when he didn't answer, I just sent him a picture of his house

and texted him that. And he was hiding from you in the house? Yeah. Just to creep him out a little bit. No. Not a fan. There are certain people. I'd be fine if they show up at my house. I have no problem with. But those are the

people that it's like I would lay in bed in my pajamas with. Right. This would have been like a 10 minute hang and then leave. Of like, hey, we were in the neighborhood. So he lives close to Natalie's dad. And we're occasionally over there and it's not planned. But I would still like call for. I sometimes want to leave. I sometimes want to leave and just drive around.

We went to a birthday party over there and I left because I didn't want to be at a kid's birthday party. I left with Vincent for 45 minutes because it was weird and awkward Whose birthday party was it? One of Calvin's friends So it was just a bunch of little kids and parents

Who are the parents? It is hard, huh? You have to talk to the parents It's like... No, it's a whole to do. The social aspect that comes along with having children You have to get down

with parents. Yeah, and that's my nightmare. Nightmare. I need to be better at it. I do too. I don't do it. I'm very lucky. I have some really cool moms at Breyer's school and we have, you know, I'm very thankful. But there's only some that you would be like, okay, doing a one-on-one. It's still just like a lot of energy getting to know people, especially doing what we do where we like talk to people all day. And then you go sit somewhere and you're like, I gotta keep talking to you and people. And it can be exhausting. Which is, you know what? It's weird that you do it, Rachel, because you're usually not down to do that kind of.

stuff and I'm usually more down to do that kind of stuff, but I don't really do it for that. I know. Yeah, you hate being social when you choose, but when it's for your kid, you'll do it. Yeah, it's about the kid. Just like how I will confront anyone or anything, I will do anything that I don't like to do when it comes to my kid. But then when we ask you to do it for the podcast, it's like, nope. That's not my kid.

Fuck off, guys, not doing that. It's not my kid. My kid is so cute Well, it kind of is. Well, I know it is my baby. How's her black eye? It didn't get black, but it is like bruised underneath the surface And it's like kind of below her eye, you know?

Mm-hmm. She's okay. She survived. Was she like, Mommy, why didn't you show up when they called? No, but she survived. But she really did hurt herself. I didn't look, but they emailed me after her and said they checked up on her and she was fine because we were busy solving a crime.

Oh, yeah, we were. Very busy. I've been thinking about that. Me too. Guys, can we solve a crime? Can we do an episode where just the three of us solve a crime? You know what I would rather, Rachel? And I think that this would be super fun and tell me what you think about this.

What? Maybe a crime that is more under the radar that's not something that is like... Yeah, not a famous. Yeah. So one that you can't find a lot of information on? There's actually an answer to, and we don't know the answer, and we have to try and solve it. Oh, so you're saying it's already been solved who's our own game of clue? Yeah.

I'm so down. Yeah. Because the thing that's hard for me with the unsolved ones is... It's because we don't get the answer, the actual answer. Rob, what do you think? Well, I feel like we could have just called up Jonathan. the psychic, and he could have confirmed or denied if we had the right answer. The medium.

Well, he did. Well, with our case, he did. He didn't give you yes or no. Yeah, he did. Well, he said it was a family cover-up. Yeah, but if you're like, this person, the mom did it, yes or no. We need Jonathan to confirm it. I'm going to take a poll, and I'm going to say, would you like to see broad ideas?

is cover a cold case. Yeah. You don't want it to be a cold case. We could do, let's take a pool. Cold case or a mystery. Or we play the game of clue with a case you guys submit that you have the answers to. Don't make it a murder you did yourself.

Okay, thanks. Don't please don't. I mean, do we need like a packet of information around the murder too? Or we've got to go and do research and like call the police department and the neighborhood? Well, that's the problem. If there is an answer and we go to do research, we're going to see. what happened. So how do we, this needs to be a little more thought out. Someone has to give us the information, but also put erroneous information in there.

Mikey could do it. Mikey's got, I'm sure he's got cases. We could find a detective, like the detective we found when I went with you to court. I was trying to make her hook up with the decision. She was trying to hook me up. She didn't know him, okay? He had swag. He did have swag. I got to say, like, you don't look at him think, oh, but like, the detective had swag. It was like 65? He wasn't. He was like in his early 40s, and he was flirting with Rachel, and he was like a detective

and tall and swaggy, and I was like, fuck yeah. This could be fun. This was years ago. This was like the blingering thing? No, this was an Olivia. We were there for Olivia. Why was there a detective around you? I had to do some clearing of my name from some sort of identity theft.

And I went with her. And she went with me. Yeah. And I wanted to support her. So it is possible that you're not really, Olivia. It's possible. Someone stole your identity and now is you posing as you. Yes, I've catfished myself.

And taken the identity. How do you guys feel about catfishing? So good. Yeah, it's great. Because I feel like it would be fun to catfish like on a dating app. Oh, you don't. I thought you meant like fishing. Yeah, Rob.

Do you often catfish? All the time. There's a lot of catfish in California. Have you ever catfish someone? No. Me? Yeah. No.

I know some of our friends have. Really? For sure, back in like MySpace and Facebook first. I remember like people would make fake profiles using different pictures and like hit people up to see if they'd respond or whatever. I mean, I feel like I've like written texts out for friends and I've done like the banter for them or given them things to say. A million times.

Is that considered catfishing? No. Well, with my wit and cleverness, I'd, say. People who know it was you immediately. Quite the ghostwriter. Why did Rachel got your phone? That's kind of true.

But I don't use, doesn't it sound fun though, kind of, Lou? To like go and like pretend, just to like get in there. Make someone fall in love with you and pretending to be someone else

and then break in a relationship. That's what I've been doing for 10 years. What? I've been catfishing Jeff for 10 years. But you know. No, no, it does sound fun. To role play? It sounds like you guys just want to role play.

Oh. Okay. Do you role play, Rob? No. No, but it sort of sounds like you want to pretend to be, you want to act. But I'm asking if ever in your relationship, have you guys role played? No. Lou?

No. No? Rachel? No. Not in every relationship. I feel like it's like when I was younger or more. What's the weirdest? scenario you had to roll.

I haven't in a very long time. That's fine. So I don't remember. It was like, I'm a naughty nurse. Like that kind of thing. What? Like, I'm a naughty nurse. Like that?

Yeah, it's like what you did from teen, or what's that from? Ferris Bueller. I mean, Ferris Bueller. Teen Wolf. I don't. I know. That's so different. No.

You've never done it, Lou? ever? I feel like you have and I feel like I know who with. You never have? I don't think so. Really? I'm trying to think now. I'm thinking back on, I know Leah has a whole bunch.

Oh, God, poor Leah had to do it all the time. She really did. Sounds like a lot of effort, to be honest. Yeah, a lot of work. A lot of work. I want to say that I did when I was younger. I know we've like joked around about it, but like, Not like real.

Like full committal. What about like fully committing? Just do that. I'm going to be at this restaurant and like the whole, like play it out. The whole thing. Oh, you've done that? No, I haven't done that. I'm saying would you ever do that?

I mean, sure. I'm not against it. It's just never come up. Yeah. If Natalie wanted that, sure. I'm sure if Jeff wanted that, sure. But Rob, could you keep a straight face? Could you actually like fall?

through with it? Probably. I know Olivia and Jeff could. Or Olivia could. Rob would be like, I'm Bruce. I'm Bruce. I don't know. What would be your role-playing name?

I don't know. Look, Roby gets so... This is so out of his wheelhouse. Yeah, depends on the scenario, I guess. This is so good. I wish everyone could see his face right now. I know. It's so good.

He's hiding. Look, he's hiding behind his mic and his hat's going lower. He doesn't like these things. That's why they're fun. What would your name be, Lou? Sophia. Oh, right. Bobby Lee would love to play one out with you, I'm sure.

I think he was. I think he actually, I think he actually did, and you had a scenario in the interview. And I could have kept doing that. That was fun. That was fun. You know what else was fun?

talking to Teagan and Sarah. Yeah, we're going to go see them, right? Absolutely. When? I'm going to watch their show. I'm super excited. And I hope they will be our friends. They have a new album out.

Their 10th studio album called Crybaby. I am super excited for that. And they're going on tour. They're going on tour. We're going to go to L.A. And you know what else we're going to do? We're going to all go in the car, windows down, bumping the album, and bringing it back to the old school. We're going to run it back, y'all.

I'm going to drive separately, I think. We're all going to have the windows down. Yep. Rob, have you ever driven in the car with the winter? No, I've never had a car that could do that. It's crazy. It's wild. That's what it is.

All right, everybody. Thanks for listening to Broad Ideas. Bye. See ya. That was a headgum podcast.