Broad Ideas with Rachel Bilson & Olivia Allen - Tori Dunlap on Financial Self Care

Episode Date: November 10, 2025

Rachel and Olivia chat with financial expert Tori Dunlap (Financial Feminist) about her path into financial education, the gender gap in money advice, and actionable tips for smarter spending. Watch the video of this episode here!Like the show? Rate Broad Ideas 5-Stars on Apple Podcasts and SpotifyAdvertise on Broad Ideas via Gumball.fm See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Welcome to Brad Ideas. Tori Dunlap is with us today. Can't we? The financial feminist herself. I love an expert. We love an expert. We love an expert. Because you want to know why we are not experts.

No. We want to know how to do the things. Anything and everything. And she really lays it out. Why don't we listen to her lay it out and not be laid out? I don't know. You can lay down and listen. I always do.

You don't listen. Oh, wait, we need to hear all this. Are we recording? Yes. Okay, great. We need this song. This is what we need. Yeah.

Yeah. Bagels are my second favorite food after fried chicken. And so if I'm going to a bagel shop for the first time, it's an everything bagel with plain cream cheese because I got to test the waters, you know? How legitimately good is this bagel? Yeah. Okay. Want to know what I'm eating? I mean, I'm going to tell you anyway. Even if you don't want to know. Even if you don't want to know. It's in everything bagel scooped, right? So they scoop out the like centers. There's not too much like bread bagel. And then they put the cream cheese. But it's not only cream cheese. It's their, what do they call it? Spicy cream cheese. Fire cream cheese. Anyway, it's spicy with like spicy, like hot peppers in it on the everything bagel, scooped bagel. Y'all are in L.A., right?

Is this Bell's bagels? No, but Bells is, I love Bells. This is. Hank's. Okay. I haven't done either yet. I was just in Culver City last week and there's a cute little bagel shop there that I can't remember the name of.

But yeah, but you recommend. Okay. No, we, you know, good bagels are hard to find. Yeah, but I judged her scooping out because, I'm like, that's less bread. Like, how is that going to be better? It's less bread. Right?

But then I accidentally took a bite of her bagel today. She did. And I accidentally. I accidentally enjoyed myself. Because it was like crunchy. My issue is when the cream cheese is like this thick. And for audio only listeners, I've got about, what, three inches here? I don't know.

No, I take off. I take some off. You have to. You have to. Even when it's not scooped. Okay, anyway. All right. We're done here.

was nice meeting you. You too. I'm so happy to be here. We were in a bookstore the other day and your book was in front of us. Where were we? So that was wild. Yeah, where were we? That was, we weren't even supposed to be at a bookstore.

No, that's what I'm saying. Like, why were we at a bookstore? Because we went to psychic eye and they didn't have anything on astrology so the guy so kindly was like directed us to a different bookstore. Yeah, and then we're standing there and we ran into someone. We were supposed to see that. day and we're like, oh my God, this is also kismet and weird. And as we're talking, I'm looking at you. And I was like, that's even more kismet and weird. Because we just got talked to her. I know.

Your book was staring at us where we were stopped in an aisle that we weren't supposed to be in at a bookstore we weren't supposed to be in seeing the person we were having lunch with. Anyway, it's proof we live in a simulation at this point. That's so great. I love it. Love it. Okay. You're killing it. Right. How just. That's it. Thank you. That's how we do questions here. We just throw like compliments or comments at you. Statements.

You respond. No. You're killing it. Take us through how it started where you are today. We need to know it all. We want to get rich. So I graduated college in 2016. I actually have a theater background.

My majors were in communication and theater. I've been acting all my life. And I thought that's what I was going to do. And then I was like, I realized that financial stability is important, so I went and did marketing instead. And so I graduated college in 2016 and was coming into adulthood after the presidential election in a very different country than I think a lot of us expected. So I thought, and I think many of us did, that we were getting our first female president, and instead

we did not have that. And so I started having a lot of conversations with people and realizing at 22, what kind of person do I want to be? What do I want to stand for? How do I want to to advocate for my rights and the rights of others. And that was also around the time that I had friends coming to me for advice and guidance around money. Now, I was lucky enough to have a really great financial education for my parents. And I thought that was normal. I thought everybody knows how to save and everybody knows not to overspend on credit cards because that was my lived reality. And of course, realized that that wasn't the case and realized maybe this was how I could make a difference. And when I had money in my own life, even just a little bit of money,

I had options. I had the ability to quit the misogynistic toxic jobs I didn't want to be in anymore. I had the ability to start a business. I could donate to causes I believed in. I could afford therapy. I could travel. Everything about my life got better. And I could show up as the best, baddest, fullest version of myself. And I realized maybe if I can help more women feel this way, if I can get more money into more women's hands, everything can start to change. I believe that a financial education is your best form of protest. If you're a member of a marginalized group, I believe that nobody has equality until we have financial equality. And so I started her first 100K as a side hustle in addition to my 9-5 in marketing. I quit my job in 2018 to run this business full-time. It is now a multimillion

dollar company with a New York Times bestselling book, the number one money podcast for women in the world, and I've helped five million women be better with money. And that's what I believe I was put on this earth to do as fight for women's financial rights. You're amazing. I know. I need help. So do I. I am here. What can I help with? Well, so we were joking and not joking at the same time that we were going to start a book club called Get Your Own Bank Account. Yeah, that was the name. That was the name we were going with. Yeah, I love it. Right? Because I don't think that people have an educational money. They don't teach it in school. They don't teach you. So even when you said how to save all the alarms went off inside of me.

Yeah. Going, if you were to do a financial edit on the two of our lives, where would you trim the fat, I wonder? Is it the machas? Is it the eating out? Is it like if you were going to just nutshell what people are wasting their money on and what they could be doing without excess extra money, what would you say? That's a great question. And it is something that I spent a lot of time researching and thinking about for my book. Because the interesting thing that happens is when we do realize, okay, I want to start getting better with money. I want to become financially educated because you're right. It's not taught in schools.

If you didn't have parents or family teaching you, you're probably shit out of luck, right? And so as soon as you realize, okay, I'm going to get better with money, you start doing Google searches, right? Or YouTube searches. and you're like, okay, money advice, 2025. And the interesting thing that happens is that the financial advice aimed at men is actually really good advice. It is about making more money. It's about expanding, right?

It's like negotiate your salary, start a business, invest in the stock market, invest in real estate, right? All of these things are learning how to make more money, expand, be, again, the best, brightest version of yourself. What is the advice for women? shrink. The reason you're not rich is because you buy lattes. The reason you're not rich is because you have a shopping addiction. Isn't it very interesting that the very things that are called like frivolous? The spending that gets labeled frivolous is always lattes and makeup and blowouts at the salon and is never NFL season tickets.

Interesting. Yeah. It's never golf clubs. It's never video games. It's wow. So interesting. That's so, I've never even put those dots together. Connected them. So when we try to get better with money, not only are we actively shamed for our hobbies, the very things that like connect us with other women, the very things that bring us joy, the very things that make this goddamn horrible life worth living, right? Not only are we shamed for those things, but we're not taught the actual good advice, which is negotiate your salary, make more money, negotiate your bills, invest in the stock market, right? And so a lot of people, especially a lot of women, focus on how can I like stop spending my money? And I think that is part of it, right? How do we stop spending money on things we don't care about?

That's really the question we have to ask ourselves. Not how do I trim everything out of my life that's ever given me joy so that that's that that I have a miserable fucking life. That's not the goal. I agree. The goal is how can we start actually thinking about money as a tool and as a resource for us? And how can we, again, expand as opposed to shrink? And my not so conspiracy conspiracy theory is that all of the financial advice that has been

aimed at women forever is about making you as miserable as possible. Because when you're miserable, you can't fight back against a system. You can't show up for yourself and others. You can't fight for your own equality because you're too tired. And I don't think that's an accident. Hmm. Interesting. And my mind's still blown.

Just on the latte. Yeah. And that's funny. Yeah, it's always the latte. It's not, again, the video games are the golf clubs. It's this very like gendered feminine thing. And that's the reason you can't buy a house or that's the reason you're not rich. And also, by the way, like let's say I stop wearing makeup or I stop spending money on makeup and I

stop going to the salon and I stop getting a cut in color. Then I get told I look tired at work. And then I don't get promotions. And, you know, if I showed up on the cover of my book or even to this interview, right? And I wasn't, you know, a polished version of myself when I go on Good Morning America or whatever. Then my book's not going to sell. So it's also like this double standard thing where it's like perform femininity to the standard we expect. But then we're going to shame you for spending money on that too. Oh my God. Yay!

Well, that's exactly what I was thinking about you yesterday, Rachel. What? What? Well, because you... Spending money on latte? No, just the contradictions. Like, what you pointed out, the contradiction in it, it's like, we want you to do this, but then we're going to try and punish you for it.

So, for instance, she got called out. Well, you got called out for talking about your sex life. Oh, yeah. And it resurfaced again and went viral that she got a job pulled. That this is circling that. saying she wanted to be manhandled. But the part about it that bothers me the most is we want her to be a sex symbol. We want her to play roles on television that are hot, sexy, fun. But shut your mouth about it and don't say anything. You shouldn't have a preference. And it's the same thing you're

pointing out. It's like, we want you to look beautiful, perfect, polished so that we can buy your book. But don't talk about spending money on that because that's what you. it's putting you in the hole financially. So that's the thing. If anybody listening takes anything away from this conversation today, personal finance gets labeled as this like very niche thing. Like, oh, I don't care about money or, oh, I'm not going to like learn about this because that's very niche.

All of this is a reflection of patriarchy. All of this is a reflection of the control that society tries to place on women and also the double standard. Like, do whatever the fuck you want. Like, you want to wear makeup? Great. You don't want to wear makeup? Great. Because ultimately, somebody's going to have an opinion about it. So as long as it feels good to you and you're making decisions that feel authentic and that feel great, somebody's always going to be mad about it. And the question I always have is, like, who profits off of making you feel that way? Like, who is profiting

off of shaming you? Who is profiting off of making you feel like shit? Because that's when the money starts to creep in and you start figuring out, okay, I'm going to make decisions that are right for me. Right. I, you know, one thing I think you'll appreciate my daughter is at an all-girls school. And this year, one of the teachers is teaching them some financial responsibility. Like, they have to pay rent for their desks. They earn money for doing certain things. Like, it's fake money, obviously. Yeah, I love it, though. But they're starting it early and they're teaching that. And it's the first time I've kind of heard it, which you're saying, like, they're not teaching in schools, whatever. I'm like, that's so cool. Like, I really could have used that. Yeah. I know. I think that education

piece is so important. And also, there's a fallacy of financial literacy here at play too. When people find out what I do, they're like, oh, yeah, I wasn't taught that in school. And it's very similar to like sex education, right? Like, I went to Catholic school. My sex ed was never have sex ever or you're going to burn in hell. Right. That was that was the thing. And if you are going to have sex, it should only be to procreate with your husband. Right. And the fallacy of financial literacy is, one, okay, let's put it in schools, but who's going to teach it and how is it going to be taught? The biggest financial education curriculum right now is by a man named Dave Ramsey.

And if you are lucky enough to not know who that is, he is like an evangelical, super crazy. I call him a Walmart Santa because that's what he looks like. And he's just like, he's so shaming and so judgmental and the way he runs his company is terrible. And it's like, okay, so if we're teaching shame-based financial education, right, that's very similar to shame-based sex ed. And then the second thing, too, is not only who's going to teach it and what's the curriculum, but if you are teaching somebody how to save money, that's so important. But if they don't have money to save, that is not really helpful. Right. And what we talk about in my work all the time is that.

that we have been made to believe that if you are broke, it is a personal failing. If you are poor, if you can't afford a house, if you can't afford to get by, it's because you are doing something wrong. You're overspending. You don't understand enough. And at the end of the day, personal finance is about 20% your own decisions. So are you taking your financial education seriously? Are you managing your debt responsibly? Are you learning how to invest in a Roth IRA? But it's about 80% all of the rest of the stuff, the systemic issues that have a much bigger, much bigger influence on whether or not you have enough money to survive. And like that coupled with financial education is the acknowledgement and hopefully the, you know, the bettering of the systemic oppression that has to be paired with that education. So what are like three, like, I don't know why I'm saying three, but three like tips or general tips.

that you come with when people are wanting to like figure this out. Yeah. The first thing is you need to understand where your money is going. And I know this seems obvious, but the vast majority of people actually don't. They don't know their cash flow. And their cash flow simply defined is like what's coming in versus what's going out. So if you can't tell me exactly the amount of money you're spending every month cumulatively or the exact amount of money you're getting every month, right? That's the first thing, is doing an audit of where your money's coming in versus where your money is going out. And as soon as I say that, people get really scared because it means looking at their money. It means like getting honest and like opening the closet where all

of the stuff, you know, topples out and like crushes you. And so we do what's called a money date at her first 100K. This is what we teach is sitting down for a designated amount of time. I like mine like once every month on a Sunday. And that is financial. self-care time. That is a date with your money where you're sitting down looking at your money, setting goals, and it is not negotiable, right? And if it's something that makes you feel really, really scared, get yourself like a down comfort or cocoon and like a glass bottle of wine and take out from your favorite restaurant and like make that something you actually look forward to. So that's the first thing is do an audit of where your money's coming in and coming out

in a money date. The second thing is if we can automate as much of our financial life as possible, this immediately gets easier. So a lot of us probably know that we can automate our bills, right? So your electric bill can get taken out, right? Or your credit card bill can get taken out of your account every single month. You can do the same thing for savings. You can say, I want a portion of each paycheck automatically put into my savings so that I don't even know what's happening, which is great.

That's what we want. We want our money getting saved in a what's called a high-yield savings account, which is just like an everyday savings account except it's offering you more in interest. If we can just set up that automatic transfer that's happening without us having to think about it, we're building our savings and we're building the muscle of saving. So whether it's, okay, all I have right now is $20 a month. Great. Start there and then work your way up over time. And I think the final thing is like I said before, you don't have to stop spending money, but you do have to stop spending money on shit you don't care about. So one of the exercises I walk people through in the book is identifying

their three value categories. These are the three areas in your life where you get the most joy. Those are where we're going to spend pretty unabashedly, right? But we're pulling back our spending on everything we say we don't care about. So for me, plants, I love them. You can kind of see it behind me. I have like 55 plants in my house. I love them. They're incredible. Okay. Those are my babies. That's where I spend a lot of money. I spend a lot of money on nesting and making my house feel good to me. I'm not really a coffee drinker. I don't spend money on that. But maybe that's $7. our latte every day is the reason you get up in the morning. Maybe that is the best thing that your money could go to. Great. That's a value category for you. Yeah. I always say that. I'm like,

I want to know your value categories. Oh, I know mine. Yeah, I love that. I know mine are, well, so I like my latte. It's the whole experience. I like to go. It brings me joy. It ups my mood. It makes me feel. You get to connect with people. I love it. Yeah. Non-negotiable. Another value category for me. And if I look at my family holistically because I do most of the, I do all of the finance for the whole family. I would say it's experiential. Experiences. So whether it's classes for my kids or baseball or that like there's never a hesitance to spend money on those things because they're experiences. Classes for myself. All of that. Those are the one thing. Yeah. With experiences, I love it and also make sure that you know what experiences means to you because I'll work with people

where they're like experiences and it's everything right it's suddenly like weird owl tickets and a trip to Vegas and like it's suddenly like anything you could possibly spend your money on it's like when I give up sweets and then I'm like I can have a muffin because it's not a cookie. Yeah. So for experiences. Yeah. Make sure you know what experiences means to you. I'm the kind of person that'll fudge any line. So just make sure you know. know what that line is for you. Yeah, mine are like learning. So whether it's even so like I would consider Pilates part of it that it's like growth. Right. So whether it's a class for the kids or a class for myself. Personal development. Yeah. Personal development. Thank you. Or Taekwondo for Jeff. Like those are the value.

Mm-hmm. I think those are the most important things. Right. And food. Well, yeah. For joy and love. Food is her number one love. That's my number one as well. Me? Yeah. Pilates for me for sure, like that's spending money on something that is a non-negotiable, right? That brings me joy, makes me feel good. Whatever. Going to the supermarket, I would say. I am obsessed. Love shopping for food because I love to cook.

Cooking brings me joy. Yeah, providing brings me joy. I don't know what my third is. Like, I could really, like, when I look at our finances, I'm like, I don't feel frivolous, but I do feel like there's probably major leakage. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know?

Yeah. I mean, that's the thing is, one, a lot of people, again, are spending money on things they don't really like. So you start needing to be more mindful about that spending and just looking at where your money's going and evaluating your purchases. Because the thing is, is like, I have this friend who's another financial expert, and she says, you can afford almost anything. You just can't afford everything, right?

So if you spend your money on this thing, right? it means that you can't have money over here, right? You can't spend money on this other thing. That's not really deprivation. That's prioritization. That's you deciding what your priorities actually are. And that's the value categories idea. But if you feel really good about your spending, then the question is, okay, are we not only

spending in accordance to our values, but are we thinking not just about present us, but also about setting future us up for success financially? That part. And I think that's the part where. a lot of women don't know what to do because, again, men are taught how to do that sometimes, but it's more socially acceptable for men to talk about growing money and to talk even about wanting money. It is not socially acceptable for women to talk about wanting money. It is evil or gross or tacky or bad, right? But I want money because I want options. I want to

live a good life. I want to live a generous life. And I mean money as a tool in order to do that. I'm just, I know, I get so stressed out, because I'm definitely the person that's like, when you say sit down once a month and you look at your cash flow, whatever, I'm always so scared because I'm like, I don't want to know, I'm so scared of what I'll see and what I'll have to change. Can I help with that? Yes, please. Okay. So two things. Well, three. First, that is so common, Rachel.

Like, the amount of people who come to me, I literally just did. We have two programs that we do at her first 100K. The first is the 100K club, which is like your basics, you're saving, your debt payoff, all of that. And we do live coaching there. And then we have our stock market school, which is teaching women how to invest step by step. So in both of these programs, I do live coaching. And I literally did this last night.

And the amount of people, the amount of women who are just like, I'm so scared to look at my money because then I'm going to have to get honest with myself. And also because it brings me feelings of the shame and the failure and the guilt. of like, why haven't I done more? Why am I not doing enough? So the first thing to acknowledge is that that is the most common emotion women feel about money is shame and guilt and just that terror of checking their bank account or, like, looking at their bills.

The second thing is the metaphor I like to use is imagine you started driving a car, but you had no idea how much gas was in it, right? So you're driving the car and at two in the morning, suddenly you break. down on the side of the road in a town you've never heard of with no cell reception because you didn't know how much gas was in the car. That's what's happening when we don't look at our money. We want to enjoy a stress-free car ride, right? We want to drive the car on a road trip, going on to the state over with our snacks and the greatest playlist you've ever heard, right? And like, you want to be so stress-free about that process. That's what we want life to look like.

But when we're not engaging with our money, when we don't even know how much gas is in the car, we're terrified that we could break down at any time. That's not the life I want for people. And that brings me to my third point, which is you think money is the reason you're stressed out, right? You're like, money stresses me out, so I'm not going to look at it. You're stressed out because you're not looking at it, right? You're stressed out because you have no idea how much gas is in the car. It's actually more helpful to know, hey, I'm close to empty, but at least I know I can get to the gas station.

That's solace. That's comfort as opposed to just raw dog in life and wondering like, when is this going to happen for me? Like, when am I going to break down on the side of the road? I've run out of gas quite a few times. That's the thing. So it's like if we can actually look at our money, even if it's terrifying. And again, make it something we can look forward to. So if it is take out from your favorite restaurant, if it is just like, okay, I'm just going to look for five, minutes. I'm just going to do five minutes today. And then you're going to build the muscle of getting

more comfortable. We always want to be spending and living our life in a way that isn't going to allow the guilt to creep in later or isn't just white knuckling panic all the time, wondering if you're going to break down any second. And that's the thing is you think the brain goes, I am stressed about money, so I'm not going to look at it. You're stressed about money because you're not looking at it. Yeah. I'm like the person that's like, well, I quit DoorDash. So now I'm going to be fine. Yes. Now I'm a millionaire. Yeah. Now I'm good. I did it. I did it. I did it. You know, your mom is actually who helped me with that. Because I would, oh, with my bank account. That's shocking. Well, back in the day, early 20s era, I was having a lot of lack issues. And she would tell me before you look at your bank account, I want you to visualize it and be like, oh, I love my

bank account. I'm so grateful that I have a bank account. And I'm so lucky that I get to put money in it and everything I need comes through and from it. And she would have me do these like visualizations that it was safe to look at my bank and that I love it. And that helped me start to embrace it and be able to look at it and feel safe because my body would signal you're not safe. And so she would have me kind of set that tone before looking. Why hasn't she done that for me? Maybe you didn't ask. I was asking. I was like, help. I think it's such a great practice. I think that's so smart. And the thing that everybody wants to think about when they're considering money, personal finance, any of this is I hear from so many women. They're like, I'm not going to be good with money because

I'm not good at math or I'm not good with numbers. And what you just highlighted is the perfect example that proves that money is not about numbers or math. It is about psychology. It is about your emotions. It is about your trauma often. And women are very, very good at self-development. We're good at unpacking our trauma. We're better at it than men, at least. And we're good at understanding, okay, this is going to be hard work, but this is going to be necessary work. And I think that so much of money gets labeled as, again, numbers or spreadsheets. And it's like, it's not about that at all. It is about properly managing your emotions and working through your financial trauma because

we all have it. Even me who grew up with a great financial education, I have financial trauma because I live in the same system everybody does. And I think it's so important to start there. Yeah. I think that, so I grew up with a mom that would get stomach aches when it was time to pay the bills, right? And she would be like, oh, my ulcer. And she had so much, you know, raising three kids on her own.

And so I watched lack, lack, lack, lack, like she would buy four rolls of toilet paper at once. And when those are out, it's like, we got to go to the store. Right. So when I first got with my husband, he'd be like, why do you only buy, like, four rolls get a whole thing of toilet paper and I'd be like oh that feels excessive you know and he's like we have enough to get toilet paper I literally would have to tell myself it's safe to buy a whole thing of toilet paper and I would have to center myself before doing that kind of stuff now guys every cabinet you open Costco toilet paper but it is it's that's when it should

for me was looking at the psychology around it, I think is what you're talking about so important. Because it's not about numbers. It's about your relationship to reality. Your relationship to society, the workforce. It's all relational, right? And it's like if you're having an uncomfortable relationship with that, it's kind of an internal shift before an external shift. Yeah. You just did a practice that you might not even know is like my signature thing. So in the first chapter of my book, and I'll have both of you do this if you're comfortable, is I have people journal about what their first money memory is. Like what is the first time you remember thinking about money? Because it often tells you a lot about your not only relationship to money now, but also

how you were raised around money. Because the vast majority of your money habits are cemented by age seven. Whoa. So by second grade, second grade. Holy shit. You already have a perspective about money. You have a perspective and habits around money. And unless you work to change them,

you were brought up in the habits typically by your family and you will reflect those. Now, sometimes it is very similar and sometimes it's the polar opposite. So I see this with people, you know, who grew up with parents who weren't responsible spenders. They save every fucking penny. Right.

but they have no flexibility on that because they're so scared that the other shoe's going to drop. So I'll give you my first money memory. Theater kid, I wanted to go see Annie, the musical. They were doing it at a local regional theater. And I was like, I have to go see Annie. And my mom's like, okay, if you want to go see it, you need to save your money for it. Now, I was four. I had no income source.

Okay. So I was doing, you know, pennies on the ground. And I was saving in my little altoyed's tin. And I probably had like $2, okay, which was not the price of Annie. And that was the intent the whole time. My parents were going to give me a ticket to Annie. But I learned, okay, if I want something, I have to save money for it. That was my first money memory.

But for many people, their first money memory is not nearly as positive. And if you're willing to share, I would love to hear both of yours. Oh, God. Do you know yours off the top of your head? I mean, even that toilet paper one is a great example, right? Yeah. Of like, oh, we can buy more than four rolls of toilet paper. Yeah, I think that, like, sums it up.

I feel like my first money memory was that we didn't have enough. Yeah. And that even down to like the food other people had in their house versus the food we had in our house. The snacks when you go for sleepovers. That's right. That's like a big money memory of like nothing was ever stocked. You know, it was always like we can have this. Oh, also.

So I remember we couldn't afford guest jeans. And that was like you were such an outcast if you didn't have guest jeans. And my sister had an old pair, so she cut off the little triangle and sewed them on another pair of jeans for me. I love that. So I wore them, but I knew they weren't real. And it made me feel really bad about myself. Yeah, but it was the same, like the status of that, right? the status of having certain clothes or certain shoes or a lo-b-boo, right?

But I do that with my daughter all the time. I'll get her the fucks. You know what I mean? Like, it's not, it's a non-issue. But I know what you mean, like, growing up. Yeah. Yep. What's your first money memory?

I know. I'm trying to think, like, my, like, the skew for me is a little off because, like, my dad wasn't around. He was, like, off working or whatever and making money. So it was kind of like coming in from the outside, if that makes any sense. You know what I mean? So, like, we weren't wealthy by any means. We were provided for.

And, like, we had things. But, like, I don't really remember. I know our house had good snacks. Like, we definitely were a good snack house. But I don't know. I remember saving money in one of those large Coca-Cola bottled piggy banks. Do you remember that? We had one, too.

Of course. Like, life size. And I had $2 bills, like, full of $2 bills. And I was so proud of myself. And a kid stole it one day. I know. This is not, I know this is not the money story you're looking for, but I still still say, and I'm like, I would have saved, that would have been cool, you know, to have. But so I remember like, at least saving that. Like, that was like putting money away. And my first memory of it, I actually do have a memory of my grandfather taking me to set up a Roth IRA, right? When I was. I love your grandfather. Yeah. When I was young, I, I don't, I still, like, I didn't know what we were doing, but he took me in, we set it up. And I was probably, I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I. I was. I was. I. I was. I. I. I I don't even know. I was young, you know? Yeah. So that would be my first, like, experience with, like, that level. I don't know. I'm like, I could break down her whole thing for her. See, I look at her. Also, in my defense, I have no memory and it's actually a thing. So she does know more than I do about my own life. No. And, like, those are the things where, yeah, as soon as it doesn't have to be the first time, right? But, like, if you have money memories from your childhood, typically what happens. is that you can start connecting them to the way you manage money now.

Right? You can start seeing, again, for me, I was taught, if you do not have money to buy something, you do not buy it. That was, you know, largely a great piece of advice. But it also made me really, really strict when I started managing my own money about what felt worth it or not. Right. And I have had to learn over the past couple of years,

especially as I'm making a lot more money now, that I can spend money on things. that are a little outside of, you know, the very strict budget because I have that financial flexibility. And so you just learn a lot about yourself. You learn a lot about the way you view money, about the way your family viewed money. And also the things that you might want to change or the things that you go, actually that wasn't, that's not the way I want to think about money in the future. Like the one I hear a lot, especially like we're talking about sleepovers or like friends houses. It's like, I went over to their house and like they,

They were rich, but they weren't very nice people. Like, I hear that sometimes of like, oh, yeah, there was this rich girl in class and she invited us over for her birthday party. But, like, she was the popular girl and she was not very nice. And so I then said, yes, right, that rich equals bad, rich equals mean. And we all know a terrible rich person, right? We see them on TV all the time. And we all know rich people who are also really, really kind and so generous.

And I think my goal is to make rich women. And my role is to make rich women because nothing bad happens when women have more money. Like women are more generous. Women are more caring. The entire system starts to shift when women have more money. I think that's a huge point because I see that even with my husband because he came from a blue collar family. And I see his judgments on money a lot. Yeah.

Like even if we go to someone's house and it's gorgeous and I'm like, oh my God, I love their house. It's amazing. He'll be like, I wouldn't want it. like there i don't even if he might secretly want it yeah but he i don't even think he secretly wants it i think he's like we don't need that like what we have is more important and i'm like two things can be true we can have what's important and that kitchen too you know what i mean like right it's okay to have that kitchen it doesn't mean you're a bad person you know and i see some of those judgments in him that he kind of rejects that

that lifestyle completely. He's like, we don't need that. We're good. And so I've tried to unpack that with him. And he just very much is like, it just doesn't fit my values. Like I don't need that. Yeah. And if that feels authentic to him, okay. But then you might have a mismatch, right? Where you want that and he doesn't. And that is a very common thing in relationships where money stories and money narratives start coming up when you manage money with somebody else. And that's a very common thing. a whole other can of worms, right? Is managing money in a relationship when maybe one partner is comfortable talking about money, one partner is very closed off.

One partner grew up with parents who made $500,000 a year. Another grew up with $50,000 a year, right? Like, those are very interesting cases. And it's the terrifying statistic is the number one reason relationships end is due to money in America. And we have to start talking about money. We have to start talking about money because. Because not only does it help with that feeling of shame and the guilt, but also we want our

relationships to be better. We want our friendships to be better. We want our partnerships to be better. And if money and your financial trauma and the lack of conversation about money is one of the reasons that divorce is so high, then we need to talk about money. There was no talk about money. Now that I'm thinking of it, like growing up and stuff. Like my mom's the polar opposite.

Oh, in your house? And your family? Yeah. Love is everything. Everything's fine. You know, there was never any emphasis on money ever, which is. Well, also, you have an interesting experience because your mom never focused on money. Ever. Like she didn't prioritize it. She doesn't lead with it. She leads with love. She's very spiritual and connection based. She's a goddess. Yeah. And then then there was the financial aspect. that your dad did provide.

So you didn't grow up with the stress of money. And it's interesting, like, the way you've always been able to pull in money as a result of that. I believe it's because her psychology didn't resist it. Huh. Interesting. See, I told you. I could break it down.

I'm calling it in right now. You started working pretty young, too, right? 21. It was my first regular job. Yeah, but you were doing well in commercials before that. Yeah, a couple years before. But yeah, I guess I started outside of high school. But, you know, my parents were very much so, like, you're not going to do that until you're done with school.

So, yeah, I guess I started young. Yeah. For sure. I mean, yeah, there's some people, obviously, who start when they're, like, two years old or babies. And, like, that's a whole other thing. We've had people in the show before who, you know, Disney actors or stuff. And, like, that financial trauma is crazy because sometimes you're in that business to make money for the family.

Right. And that pressures in insane. But then they came up with other laws. And it might not be related. Protect kids. Yes, totally. Yeah. And it might not be relatable for most people, right?

Most people are not child actors, probably listening. But a version of that that we see a lot is, um, especially with like first gen or immigrant, like people of color who you are your parents 401 K. Like, not only are you having to provide for your family and trying to get ahead financially for your children and your spouse, but your parents might not have savings. They might not have the stability. And that pressure is incredibly high and so emotional because you feel this debt to your parents.

You feel this debt to your caregivers. If they, you know, cared for me. I want to care for them. And it's so hard to think about, okay, not only do, I have to provide financially for my children and my spouse. But now I have this extended family. I have to provide for too. And like this is where all of that emotionality comes into money, right?

It's money in itself is morally neutral, right? And that's one thing that I think people don't understand because again, rich equals bad or like wanting money is bad. Money is inherently neutral. It is a stack of paper. Know what you do with it is when you start bringing the morality in. but money is so emotional and is so emotionally loaded in your relationships, in you know, based on your trauma, that this is why, again, we have to not only start talking about money, but start understanding our own money story so that we can show up in conversations with our loved ones in a way where we've done as much work as we can do and show up to these conversations in a positive way. I have a question on that because I think that what is the question. correlation between looking at that psychology, you know, putting eyes on it, fixing whatever

narratives you have going, and then the actual ability from that to make more money. Okay. So the first thing is women, especially, we equate our net worth to our self-worth. And so if I don't have money, it's because I'm not working hard enough, right? Or if I don't have, if I'm not a homeowner, it's because I've done something wrong, right? And so I think that once that's internalized and it's internalized for all women, it becomes very, very difficult to unpack that first and to understand that, like, again, wanting money is not bad, but also that your, financial mistakes are a little bit about you making a mistake and a lot a bit about all of the

systemic factors at play here. So the first thing is to just acknowledge it and to say, okay, there is a lot that I don't know and it's not my fault. The second thing is to understand that like with that you need to, you need to work on being worthy of that money or believing you are worthy of that money. Because the thing about financial shame for women that is unique to women compared to men is that we all feel shame when we're not doing well enough with money. But women uniquely feel shame when we are doing well because we feel guilty that we're doing fine but our friends aren't or that we have enough but maybe somebody else doesn't. And I see this with women who start making more money, who start building their own wealth.

they start to get excited, which is the correct response, right? Yay, I'm making good financial choices. It's working out well for me. But then the guilt creeps in of like, I need to start donating all my money. Or I can't talk about money because somebody is going to think it's bragging, right? Or I can't invite friends onto this trip, even if I'm going to pay because it's going to show them that I have more money than they do. And I've experienced this as someone who went from 100 publicly, by the way, 100KK.

net worth at 25 to multi-millions at 27. I became a multimillionaire at 27 years old. I'm now 31. And this was something even internally that I was very conscious of. I'm a financial expert. I shouldn't have to worry about this, right? I should be, my financial trauma should be fine. It wasn't. It was like, oh, shit. Okay. If I give my friends a gift for getting married, are they going to know how much money I have and go, that gift should have been more expensive. Interesting. Right? Like, this is the interesting thing. And I don't think. think they're thinking that. Maybe they are. Maybe they aren't. But that's the narratives down in my head. So I hate to sound like a broken record. But like talking about it is so important. Talking about

with a therapist, talking about it with your partner, even if you like have the kind of hopefully the kind of friendship where you can go, hey, I am worried that you think I should pay more. tell me what's going on in your head. Like even that is so, so powerful because it, shame lives in shadow. That's a great quote from Brne Brown. Like shame lives in shadow. And the more we can bring it into the light, the more we start realizing, yes, I am worthy of money.

Yes, having money is not a bad thing. The pursuit of money isn't a bad thing because I want options and choices and I want a better life for me and my family and my community. And if you can talk about it, it unleashes that shame for everybody. And it makes it more socially acceptable. That's the reason why I talk about how much money I have unabashedly. And I talk about wanting money. It's the reason why we do the work that we do, why I host my podcast, why I wrote my book, is if we can get more women comfortable with money, the entire world starts to change.

What did you do to start making money? I started a business. That's like single-handedly how I went from 100K25 to 27. Absolutely. Like that was like the, I don't know, the rocket ship that got me to where I wanted to be way quicker. But that original 100K was all of the things we talk about that hopefully at least one or two that you can do as well. So I negotiated my salary and I didn't stay in a job more than like two or three years because my income, your income kind of starts getting capped because you have these incremental salary increases as opposed to when you go to a new job, you, have more negotiating power when you first start a job than you will ever have at your entire

tenure when you're at that company. So negotiate your salary. And if you feel like you're being underpaid, you probably are. And it's time to ask for a raise or find something better. The second thing that I did was I was saving automatically a portion of my paycheck. So we talked about that before. I was automatically saving at the peak 27% of my take home pay. And that was happening without me having to think about it. Now, the question I always get when I say 27% is like, okay, did you just eat oatmeal and like hate your life? No, I was still like, I lived in Seattle, which is where I live. It's a high cost of living area. I lived by myself. I travel it internationally. I did stuff. But because I focused on those value categories, I got very specific as to what

brought me the most joy where I wanted to spend my money so that it felt good for me. And then the last thing I did is I was working my 9 to 5 in marketing and then I started building her first 100K on the side. So as soon as that started getting going, I had my paycheck from my 9 to 5 job where I was saving 27%. And then after taxes, I could save all of the money I was making in addition with my side hustle. So that was how I got to that first 100K. Got it. Well, I guess we have some. Our mission is here. We have some work to do. No. No. No. The nervous giggles make me nervous. I'm like, I want to make sure that I'm, you are helping.

I literally am going to go home today and look at my cash flow. Well, maybe not today, but I'm going to do it. I love it. Probably this weekend. And look at it and really have an understanding. Because I always kind of just wait to be alerted when it's too late, you know? So the typical stuff. But you've inspired me to actually inform myself.

And if you want to make it even better, Like, do it together. You two both. Oh, no, she's definitely doing it with me. Yeah, I've told her that. I'm like, I'm happy to look with you. She's the numbers lady. I like numbers.

I know you said it's not about numbers and math. I get that. But also, I do have, what's the word I learned recently? But it's the accountability part, yeah. That's so important. Displace shit? Yeah. And anybody listening again, like get a group of friends.

Just like you. Sorry. Yeah. Like, get together and do it too. I think it's so helpful. A party. A financial party. To learn about your finance.

It's just like book club where we also will play. I don't know, you gather with your friends to watch Love Island. I think what you brought up, though, is such an important thing for women, regardless of what side of the spectrum you're on with the money. Whether you have it or don't have it, there's an opportunity for shame and there's an opportunity to look at that. And it doesn't help anyone, right? So when Rachel was doing, there's been times where ridiculous,

ridiculously successful, right? But one thing I'll say is never once did she make me feel like, oh, I'm sorry you don't have this. Do you know what I mean? She would just be like, where are we going or what do you need to wear or what, like, it was like a us thing. Right? And I think that's important that there is something spiritual with money that you do get to be more generous. inclusive and you don't ever have to feel ashamed if you have more or less. There's this quote that I think is so important, which is like money doesn't change you.

It just shows you who you truly are. I'm truly rich, okay? Yeah, great. And that's what we're talking about is like you having money as long as you manage it well and as long as you know your values is not going to change your values. I could give you $10 million right now and you are still going to be a kind person. You are still going to be a generous person.

And I'm talking to both you two as well as the listener. Like I could give you $10 million and you're going to be the same person you are now. You're just going to have money. Do you want to try it? So if I had $10 million, I'd do it. No, it's like you're going to leave 30% tip now at every restaurant you go to. I can't wait. And when a friend calls you and is like,

Like, this actually just happened this morning. I have a friend in the hospital and we're going to hope everything works out okay. And her husband is just so overwhelmed. It was like, what I don't know what to do. He's like, I need to pick up her family from the airport. And I'm like, I got it. I'll call a car for them. Like, you don't have to worry about that.

Like, and that's, oh, it's going to make me cry. That's the feeling I want for every single woman on the planet because every woman is already generous and so kind and such a good friend and shows up for people and shows up for her community and shows up for her children. It shows up for her spouse. And like, what a powerful tool that can be of you being the badass that you already are and the generous person you already are. And now you have money to do it too. Like, how cool. How cool. That's the feeling I love that for every single one.

We love that feeling. We hope everyone experiences it. Just real quick, rent versus buy in Los Angeles. Olivia. I know. We got to let you go. It's funny you ask me today. Yeah.

It's funny you asked me today because I literally announced this morning that I bought it. Oh, congratulations. And thank you. And I literally have had multiple, like, articles written about me as the multimillionaire who rents. And so we had to basically unpack, like, why did I choose to buy a house? But my perspective on it has not changed. First of all, homeownership is now a privilege, not like the American dream anymore. It is not accessible to the vast majority of people.

So renting is kind of what most people are forced to do. The reason I rented for so long is because it fit the season of my life. I don't think it's throwing away money. I don't think it's flushing money down the drain, which is what I was told, even by my financially well-meaning parents. Renting is not only, again, now not a choice. It's a necessity. But it can actually be really flexible.

If you don't want to do the house projects, great. You don't have to do the house projects. And ultimately, it's less about being a financial decision and more a personal decision. Do you want to be a homeowner? Is that accessible to you financially? But also, like, is that something you want to do? And if not, great, keep renting. It's not throwing away money. Great. You heard it here first, everybody. Yeah, you did. Thank you so much for talking to us. Such good advice. And we really appreciate it. And everything you're doing is awesome. So thank you. Can't wait to read the book. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

Thank you. I'll send you a copy. We're going to read it. Thank you so much. Yes. We are. And get yourself a bank account book club. Yes.

Thank you so much. Thank you. Guys, please do you tell. I made a casserole. It's a sloppy Joe casserole. Oh. Sloppy Joe. Sloppy Joe.

It was delicious. Was it? It was so good. Can I tell you what goes on the bottom and what goes on the top? Yeah. Pillsbury Crescent Rolls. Wow. Right? Yeah. Okay.

And then it's just sloppy Joe in the middle. And I made a big old sloppy Joe mix. Like I make my own. I don't use a mix. You know, like I do all the things in it. And I made a big old bat of it. And then you put it in on top of the Pillsbury and then you put another on top. It was so good. It's amazing. Oh, and you put cheddar cheese on top of the sloppy Joe mix. Can I tell you something you might not want to know?

Oh, God. I don't love Swapy Joe. Have you had mine? I think so. No, I'd refuse to believe that. It's sweet. It's like sweet. I don't like sweet.

Oh, my God. It's so good. And you get the ridged potato chips and you put it inside when you eat it. There's a question. As adults, I'd like, as adults, I'd like to know your. answer to. What? So, we hosted a party and you know when you have a little party, you get like the chips and the dips and the this and the that and then people will bring things and it's like brownies and pizza, like all the things, right?

Yes. And I've noticed there are certain people that are very adult and they will take like a piece of pizza, right? but they don't take all the things that are on the table like a child do you yes to have that kind of self-control is admirable no i mean i love a smorgish board yeah i can't even talk but do you eat all the things do you eat like will you go in on the potato chips and the dip and the this and the that and then the donuts afterwards and the or do you do you do it reason I prefer all the dips in the things and I like a variety. So I go all in. I'm not going to have a plate that only has one item ever.

Okay. I think it kind of depends what mood I'm in. Like if I know I'm going to be there for a while and it's going to be fun and stuff, I think I'm ready to try things. If I'm like, I don't want to say unwilling, but I'm not very excited about this party, I might rain it in a little bit and do a little smaller thing. But it might be a chicken or the egg thing because maybe if I had more of a variety, I would enjoy myself more. But I like normally doing a variety, but sometimes I'm kind of a one and done.

But as we've talked about multiple times, and I apologize, listeners, I'm going to keep bringing it up. Now that I'm no longer vegan, I'm trying everything. I had Halloween candy for the first time in 15 years last night or recently. and it was very good. I probably ate more than I should have. Wow. That's crazy. Vegan, you can't have all the candies.

Elliot just tried it for the first time. He just tried his first Snickers, his first fish. Wait. He's never tried any of it. Wait, how was he able to eat it? Because we got a medicine. You did get the medicine. We got the medicine so that he can try these things.

And he was on FaceTime with his friends afterwards. And he's like, guys, this is my friend. first time trying to Hershey Bar and they were like, what? Did he love it? I think he liked it. Here's the thing. Candy isn't what it used to be. Like that kind of candies changed. Snickers? I love Snickers. I love Snickers. Me too. That was my favorite. But wait, Kevin, one more question. Yep. So my brother is moving in to someone's house, okay? And he's going to share a place with them. Now, this guy survives, I mean survives on chicken, milk, and eggs.

Okay? So he's a bodybuilder. So he is protein heavy. Sure. And it's all animal protein. So this roommate he got, he's moving into someone's home and they're a vegan. And he meal preps. How do you think that's going to go?

Uh, I think it kind of depends on the person. I would like to think that I was like considerate and people would say like, oh, I didn't know you were vegan. How long you were vegan? I would say like for a very long time. Um, so I didn't really push it in people's face and would try to be like mindful of the environment. So I think if I'd like to say if they're a good person, there won't be like clashing or like you have to do X, Y. and see if I'm doing this and that. I think it kind of depends on the person, honestly.

Rachel, your thoughts? I mean, having never been a vegan, I've witnessed vegans that are like super, super, you know. Capital V. Yeah. And so if it's that kind, I don't know, does he know what kind of vegan she is? No, but he was like, he made a comment like, I'll just go cook at moms.

And I was like, I don't know. Like, here's the thing. It's not just like, oh, I eat meat. Like we do. He cooks in factory style. So if she walks in the kitchen, she's going to see 22 rock chicken breasts. Well, has he brought this up to her?

He told her he eats chicken. I said, that's not the same as like, he's like, but that's what that means. And I was like, but I don't know if anyone visions, like, how much chicken one person could eat. Yeah. It makes me worried. It'll be interesting.

I'd like to think I'm around, I was around meat all the time, but never bothered me at all. I was just like, yeah, whatever. Like you do your thing, I'll do mine. But they're like Rachel was saying too, there's also people that will gasp and be like, how dare you do that in front of me?

So, I don't know. It'll be, we'll need an update because. Yeah. I think it's more of a person thing than the diet thing. True. Yeah. And maybe there are reasons too. Mm-hmm.

Right. Mm-hmm. Right. Like my mom's a lazy vegan. She's not actually vegan, really. She's more just vegetarian, but she's like a, she cooks me. She cooks me. Yeah.

You know, for sure. I clamped up so hard on my first date with Leah. We went to this bar in Highland Park. And then we went to like there was a, my friend's band was playing a show across the street. And I have to pat myself on the back. I was very smooth with like, I was like, where do you live?

And she said Highland Park. And I was like, oh, cool. My friend's actually playing a show there this Friday night. If you've gone to blow. And so we did. That was the first date. Cute. and I was nervous.

She walks in the bar. She's stunning. I'm like, oh, my God. I'm going on a date with a model. She's so beautiful. And we get a drink. We sit down and there's candy at the table. And instead of just, she was like,

oh, do you want a piece of this candy? I could have just said, oh, I'm good. Thank you. But I was so nervous that I went. So I actually, excuse me, so I actually don't tell us to people normally. But I am, I am vegan. So I would love to say yes.

but I technically shouldn't eat that, but again, thank you. And I still think about that like nine years later that I could have so much smoother been like, I'm good, but thanks. But you had to like word vomit your veganism? Yeah, I was crushing hard, so I clamped up. I actually like that response. I feel like it could have gone awkward. I don't know. Like if I offered a guy a candy on the first date and he said he just straight up.

was like no thank you. That would be weird. That's true. That's true. Yeah. It would feel like a shut down. I feel like you did the right thing. I think you got her in that moment, actually.

Great. Okay, I feel better now. Let her know. We say we know that's what happens. Rachel and Olivia approve the way I clamped up on your candy question on our first day. Okay. Another question for you guys. Great.

So I was busy and I was like driving and Jeff sent me a text from like a co-worker and it said something and at the end it had like an embarrassed face and the way I read it while I was doing two million things at once said thank you for saying what you did you have a way with the ladies and I was like oh babe and then we were talking later and he said something like oh you saw my text and I was like yeah you you have a way with the ladies. And he was like, what? He was like, what? Are you talking about? And I was like, yeah, she said, you have a way with the ladies. He's like, no, no, she absolutely did not, Olivia. She said, like, thanks for the deliverables or something.

You know, like something really, really above board. Yeah. And he goes, but my bigger question is, why were you happy about that? Like, why did you read that and be like, yeah, you do, babe? Oh, my God. One would think that would bother you. And so then we got into this discussion of would that bother one, a normal person. How would that, how would you take it?

Or would you like, like, if Rachel, you're with someone and they say, oh, someone wrote them, they have away with the ladies, would you be annoyed or would you be happy? And same to you, Kevin. I mean, you know my answer to this. I think I would be confused. I guess it would, like you said, depend on the context a little bit. I hate that I don't have all these black or white answers. It truly depends on the person if it's like someone that is friends with my wife or, like, you said, works with them and stuff. And I feel like they don't have other intentions.

I'd be like, yeah, yeah, whatever. Like, Leah's extremely friendly and personable, so would not surprise me at all if people would say that. But if it was like a weirdo, is it different with guys? No, this is like not a weirdo at all. Okay. So it's someone that she works with that's like a cool man that you know. Yeah, yeah. And he was like, wow, Leah, you really got away with the men.

Would that bother you or would that make you feel? feel proud. It's so funny, Olivia, because I really want to say, I think I would be so cool, but there have been times where I have said exactly this,

like, you know what, in that situation, I would be so cool. And then something like that ends up happening and I go like, well, hold on, hold on.

So I would like to think I would be cool. But when the moment happens, who's to say, unfortunately? Who's to say? Well, you.

I know. Exactly. The person being. And Rachel, I know your answer. Yeah. You know, I'm always of the belief. If I'm with a dude, I like if other girls like my dude in that way or like think highly of him in that way.

Or like, you know, if he owns a room or whatever, that's always attracted to me. That's a backfire. Probably sometimes. But probably better more that way than the other way of just like, God, you're so socially awkward. You're sucking a life out of the room. I think it's better to be more friendly and stuff. I truly think that is one of the most attractive characteristics a person can have is

just like how friendly you are. Like when you enter a room, are people excited or are they just like, oh, okay. Kevin's here too. Aw. Yeah. I get that. Well, guys, it didn't happen. And that's not what was said.

So that's right. Another one more question. I love, by the way, so much that you thought that's what happened. I totally didn't. I was so happy for him. And he's like, what is wrong with you? He's like, if someone wrote you saying like, wow, Olivia, you really have a way with the dudes. He's like, I don't think I would like that because I'd be thinking in my head, like, what were you doing?

Yeah. Like, you know, what were you making them think they had a chance or whatever? Um, one more question. Mm-hmm. All right. Do you know? I guess she's got to go soon too. Yeah.

She's going to do exactly what the question is right now. Great. Do you know the origin of where Irish goodbye came from? Please tell me. Because it's my favorite. Take a guess. They were drunk. And left.

Yeah, they call in Irish goodbye because if you stay to say goodbye, they're going to take your car keys. Or whatever, you can't go. at home safely because that's where they want you to stay wait what explain that again the Irish goodbye would leave before saying goodbye because if you if you're drunk and you go to say goodbye people are going to stop you from leaving because you're drunk uh so it is so I was so I was on to the right thing yeah you you didn't answer it correctly though no I didn't want to know the correct answer to that I just hang up without saying yes yeah nice I know all.

Okay. Are you my sonny? That being said, Tootles. Don't do it. Don't do it. That was a hate gum podcast.