Broad Ideas with Rachel Bilson & Olivia Allen - Zachary Quinto on a Teacher’s Impact

Episode Date: September 29, 2025

Rachel and Olivia chat with Zachary Quinto about their shared ties to Pittsburgh, his journey into acting and the teachers who shaped him, and the power of self-awareness in building a meaningful life.Watch this episode on YouTube!Like the show? Rate Broad Ideas 5-Stars on Apple Podcasts and SpotifyThis is a Headgum podcast. Follow Headgum on Twitter, Instagram, and Tiktok. Advertise on Hollywood Handbook via Gumball.fm See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a Headgum podcast. Hax is back for its fifth and final season, and so is The Hacks podcast. Join the Hacks creators and showrunners, Lucia and Yello, Paul W. Downs, and Jen Statsky as they unpack the Emmy-winning comedy series. On each episode, here's stories from the set, what goes on in the writer's room,

and how these beloved characters close out their final season. Watch Hax streaming exclusively on HBO Max and listen to The Hax podcast, on HBO Max or wherever you get your podcasts. Sometimes talk about dogs. Because people die. Welcome to Broad Ideas. Hey, thanks, Rachel.

You're so welcome. I know. We're very enthusiastic. Thank you, Rachel. Thank you, Olivia. Thank you the fans. I was waiting for your enthusiasm over there. Kev.

It took a second, but I'm here. He's awake. I'm on baby hours. Yeah, I was going to say. What do you have a baby? You have a newborn or something? Went to bed at four. Got up at seven.

No. Oh, seriously? It's okay. That's not okay. We didn't bring your latte today. I got cold. I know. We didn't have time.

Yeah, I know we didn't have time. This was from much earlier. It's tea. We're all busy, gang. We are busy. So is Zachary Quinto. Yeah, he is. Who's here today with us.

My new game is a brilliant mind. My new game is to see how you transition into the guest. It's very fun to watch. It's different every time, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yep.

him and his brilliant mind are here today because his new show brilliant not a new show new show new season of his show brilliant minds is out let's watch it let's hop to it oh let's talk to him yeah okay where are you we're in silver lake currently yeah yeah what do you have feelings about silver lake i used there for many years oh you did oh yeah really i lived in l.a for 12 years i lived in silver lake for i mean a long time but you're You're in New York right now? I'm in New York right now, but I'm mostly in Toronto these days working. So I'm just home for press stuff this weekend.

And then I go back tomorrow and go back to work. So I'm in Toronto until March. Wow. Well, at least it's a short commute. That's right. That's very much how I look at it, actually. Yeah. And at least it's Toronto.

Meaning instead of the states. What are you talking about? I just mean like it's beautiful there. Oh, like. It's winter. A lot. There's a lot of winter. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, okay. I want to wait. Well, what's, what's your feeling on it? I, you know, I'm, I don't feel the kind of visceral connection to Toronto that I feel to other cities. And when I'm living somewhere for work, that that's its own kind of challenge. And we all, we all experience it. But like when I show up in a.

that I feel like inspired by, connected to. And, you know, it's a very lovely place. Like, Toronto's very easy and kind of, it just, and I think there's a reason that a lot of other things shoot there. A lot of things shoot there and it doubles for other places because it does have this kind of evocative quality of other places that I've been. But it, to me, I can't yet discern its own identity, its own kind of depth or edge. and those are qualities that are important to me in cities that I'm living in or working in.

So I don't feel that way about it, but it's also like I work every day. So it's not like I'm sitting around looking for stuff to do, which is so it's great for that, you know. You have great crews there, though. I feel like everyone is so... I was just about to say that, actually. They're a wonderful cruise. And I love everybody that we work with. That's so cool.

Yeah. It's a really good place to show up to work every day. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah, my only qualms are just how cold. it is for most of the year. Well, last year, first season, we were able to, we finished in August, so we missed the colds. And this year we go until March.

So I'm going to be. You're living it. You're going to live it. I'm getting ready. I brought all my shorts home to New York and, like, traded them out from my sweaters and heavy coats and I'm lugging them all back this weekend. So, yeah, I'm getting ready to go. Yeah.

But you are an East Coaster. You are from Pennsylvania, right? Pittsburgh, yeah. Pittsburgh. I mean, it depends on me. I always grew up thinking it was the East Coast, but a lot of people consider Pittsburgh more Midwest, like Rust Beltie. It is, yeah.

I guess, okay, so you consider it that way. Yeah, all right. I mean, I always thought like, hey, it's the East Coast. But, yeah, Pittsburgh being the most western part of the state, I think is probably like more akin to like Ohio, Indiana, all of that. But I lived in L.A. I went to college in Pittsburgh. Then I moved to L.A.

and lived there for 12 years, and then I moved back to New York. and I've lived here for over 12 years now. Wow. So speaking to Pittsburgh, I have a little something for you. I heard you. We have some kind of connection, but somebody was unclear about what it was. That's great. Kevin, do you want to go ahead and play it for him?

Okay. Here we go. He looks scared. It's a bad angle. Hi, Zachary. It's been a long time since we last talk. I'm Mike Eggler. I hope you remember me as coach Eglars.

That's right. You're St. Simon and Jude Youth Wrestling Program. I think you were six or seven years old at that time. I used to drive a Buick Century Station wagon, and I would pick up you, my son, Jeff, who, by the way, is now married to Olivia, and several other of the neighborhood boys. Wow. Wow. On one of the trips home. the Michael Jackson hit thriller came on the radio and you surprised us all by saying,

I'm scared. I'll be laughing on that. Zachary, I just want to let you know how proud I am of you for the accomplished mission you made in the entertainment world. And I wish you nothing but success. Bye. Oh, my God, that's so sweet. So that is Olivia's father-in-law.

That's your father-in-law. Yeah. So crazy. I wish I could have seen your face because we didn't get to see any of that. Oh, really? Yeah. So Stephanie Eglare and Jeff Eglow, I don't know if you remember. I do remember them.

I mean, like in the wispiest kind of 40 years later, you know. But I do remember them. I remember that time very vaguely. but I remember Mike Eggler. That's so crazy. I know. It's wild. Wow.

That's like, yeah, that's kind of like a different life. It feels like that. You know what I mean? I can imagine. Yeah. Well, how old you would have been? Yeah. Is that elementary school?

Yeah, I think Stephanie went to elementary school. St. Simon and Jude. Yeah, St. Simon and Jude was where I went to school until third grade. So I would have been like eight. Wow. That's young. That's young. And it's literally 40 years ago.

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. But that town, so we still go, they still live in the same house. Uh-huh. I'm not surprised by that, yeah. No. And so we go every year and it's like a time capsule because it's like everyone else has kind of moved on and done all these different things.

But that is still like the memories of those times is what they have. Yeah. People from Pittsburgh who stay in Pittsburgh, you know, oftentimes, they'll create and nurture families and then the kids will go off. But I think it's not uncommon for people of that generation to stay. My mom was from Pittsburgh, lived in Pittsburgh all her life, you know. A lot of family friends that I have are still there. And, you know, it's deeply rooted in family and in tradition in a lot of ways, Pittsburgh as a town.

And I think that's part of what makes it so homey. Yeah. It's a wonderful place, Pittsburgh. I'm grateful that I come from there, but I'm also one of those people that was like, okay, like, we're getting out of here. Like, we're not sticking around. But I think that, you know, that's also true of a lot of people from my slash generation. Right, right.

Yeah, yeah. Is your mom still there? No, my mom passed away. Okay. I'm sorry. Thank you. Yeah, she did live there to the end, though. The last couple of years, she wasn't living in Pittsburgh, but yes, she lived there,

as long as she had a choice in the matter, she lived there. And then there was a time where we had to intervene in her care, and there were other circumstances that made more sense. And so, yeah, but I still have friends there, my best friend since I'm 16, moved back to Pittsburgh. My God, kids are there, and, you know, still have family friends. And I still get back. And I went to college there, too. I went to Carnegie Mellon.

So I have occasion to go home or back, you know, every now and again. It's a good place. It's a good place. Do you go a lot with Jeff? I go every year. Every year. Yeah, we go Fourth of July or Christmas. We're always, I love it. To me, I grew up here. So when I go there, I'm like, this is a kind of slice of life I never got as a kid. It's vastly different. And it is rooted in a kind of a different worldview, I think, you know. And there's a lot of benefit to that.

And then there's also a lot of, you know, I think there's a lot of, I don't know, there's a quaintness to it that I think is really nice. But I think if you have a broader ambition, what is Jeff doing now? He's a longevity doctor. Oh, really? Yeah. In L.A. In L.A. Yeah. So did he study, I mean, Pittsburgh is also a great medical town.

Did he study there? Yeah. He studied there and then he went to Penn State. Penn State, yeah. Yeah. And then moved out here. And now he's like chief medical officer of a company called Noom, which. Wow.

I've heard of the Noom. N-O-O-M? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. He's doing great. He was like you. He wanted to explore and get out and broaden his horizons. Well, maybe he should give me some longevity tips.

He can. He's got them all. He's got them all. But he met Olivia at a different college for spiritual psychology. Yeah. Wow, that's like right up my alley. I was going to say your show is right up my alley. Great.

I love that. I love it too. I'm like, you have the absolute dream job. It is a good job. I have to say I don't lose sight of that. Like, it's a great gig. Yeah. It's fascinating.

So tell us, first of all, how did you come from a little boy in Pittsburgh to get into acting to land where you are today, because that's a big... Yeah, you know, I really credit a teacher, actually. My dad passed away when I was seven, and my mom raised two boys on her own. I was in elementary school. It was actually... I transferred schools after the third grade from St. 7 and June, and I went to the public school in my community.

And so it was a fourth grade, and my music teacher sent me home one day with a note to my mom. And the note was like, hey, I recognize that Zach has this talent and seems to really enjoy

music class more than most kids. And here's an article that was an audition notice for a performing group in Pittsburgh called the Civic Light Opera mini stars, which was like a kid's singing and dancing troupe. I had never performed in my life. And my mom asked me if it was something I would be interested in.

And I said, sure. And so she took me to the audition and I got into this group. Like, I didn't even know what Broadway was, literally. I went and I sang America the Beautiful. And they were like, that's great. Come back next week and sing a song from a Broadway show. And I was like, I don't know what that is. So I went back to the teacher and she taught me consider yourself from Oliver and I

sang it and I got into this group and that's really what started my whole like it was crazy. And like as soon as I, because it was affiliated with the Civic Light Opera, which I don't know if you know is like a summer stock kind of like the motto was where Broadway spends the summer, right? Like young kids out of school and like kind of established performers will come into a town and the Civic Light Opera will mount a production of a musical in like 10 days. and then it'll run for like a couple of weeks. And they do that in the summer. And so I got cast in my first summer in the mini stars as a munchkin in the Wizard of Oz.

And I remember being at this like main stage at the Beninem Center, which is like a 2,500 seat theater in Pittsburgh, you know? And like we had to like do our own makeup. We had to take like makeup with the lid of a spray paint can and put it on our cheek and then fill it in. to be these munchkins and like and like spray our hair with this color and like make it all spiky and like I just remember looking at the mirror at was 11 at the time and just saying like I'm going to do this for the rest of my life like I just knew it from that makeup is what did it for you that was the makeup yeah it hasn't stopped since no um I yeah I just knew and then that that was the

beginning of um I started studying you know I started taking classes and And then by the time I was ready to go to college, I decided I wanted to study acting in college. So that ended up being what I did. So cool. That is so cool. What's even cooler is you bring up a teacher. And I just like the ones that really make a difference, it's just like I still remember, you know, ones that really affected me growing up. And I'm watching my daughter too now.

She's 10. And just noticing like when teachers really care and they really love what they do, they're just so amazing. and how cool to have that inspiration. And I've been thinking about her. I don't know. I tried to look her up. Her name is not the easy, like it's not the best name to try to look up out of nowhere. Her name was Janice Smith.

I was going to say, is it Smith. Yeah, it was literally Smith. Literally. You know, it's difficult. I don't know where she is, if she is, I don't know. You know, but I've thought about her so often. And when people ask me, you know, I have to say, like, my entire trajectory, was altered by that one teacher, you know, recognizing something in me before I recognize it

in myself. And that is why we're having this conversation right now, you know? I hope that on some level she knows that or knew that. I don't know. Well, she's listening right now. So anything you want know. We have her. And now your next video. That would be great. But I mean, she'd probably be like in her 80s now, I imagine. Anyway, bless her, wherever she is. It really does take. I remember I was struggling in high school and this teacher sat me down. He goes, you're a smart girl.

What are you interested in? And it was English and I was, I was failing. And he's like, what outside of school interests you? And I said, honestly, acting theater. And he said, I'm going to change your whole curriculum. You're not going to do what the rest of the kids do. We're going to study playwrights. And I was like, so he had me just me.

by myself doing all the greatest playwrights, writing reports. I had my own independent studies. That is so cool. Mr. Miller. He's the only teacher I remember. He saw you. He saw me. I know. Well, kids are all should be independent like individualized in their studies because everyone's so different,

you know. Right. Right. I agree. Yeah. But so so you went to school for acting, college for acting, and then what was your first job? I mean, my first job was as a way. The munchkin. The munchkin, yeah, for sure. No, I graduated school.

I moved to L.A. And I did the very traditional, you know, it was like 1999. I got a job at a diner in L.A. in Los Angeles. Which one? Which one? I worked the graveyard shift. I would work like 11 at night till 7 in the morning. And then I would go to auditions.

And I think my first job was TV. show called The Others, actually. I had like two lines. I was absolutely had no idea what I was doing. I had no idea like how to hit a mark. I had no idea. And the show starred Gabriel Mocked, who went on to start with one of my dear, dear friends,

Patrick Adams on suits. And my scene was with Julianne Nicholson. And Julian and I have since become, really good friends. We've made a movie together. And I always remember how easy she was, how cool she was, how generous she was, how welcoming. And I mean, I was there for one day.

I would, and I will always remember that and be grateful for it. You know, she really kind of put me at ease. And so nice to have that full circle moment with both of those people to like get to know them later and have context and perspective. And particularly with Julianne, just adore her. Just really love her. Yeah. I mean, it really makes a difference, especially if that was your first thing.

Like, people showing you the ropes and things like that are making you welcome. And I think that's a big deal with how you conduct yourself on sets. Yeah. And now I get to know that myself, right? I get to have that experience and be able to recognize that. And other people are coming onto my show. Yeah. And that's a huge part of what I try to do is create an environment where people feel welcome.

And I think we do a good job of that at Brilliant Minds. Brilliant Minds, which season two is premiering. Yeah, premiered. Premiered. Yeah, premiered. Right. What, this is so silly. But hitting a mark.

it's not easy when you're first doing it and you're on a set and you're nervous and there's a bunch of people watching you and they're like go and then you have to stand there do that like if you go to acting school they don't really teach you how to hit a mark no you got to come up with your own I love when I'm watching something and you see somebody look down at their mark I think it's always just so like I'm always fat because I try not to look down like that my my technique is like to know

where it is to orient where the mark is in the room and then use that other thing to kind of figure out where I need to land but you know there are so many examples where I'll rewile be watching something I'll rewind it to like see how they play it off

for like how they're in the middle of saying something and they just find a way it looked down. I think it's so funny. To call it out. My trick is I always ask for the hot pink tape. Oh, you do? Yeah. Because then, you know, it's just like in your peripheral. Yeah, yeah.

So you automatically smart. Oh, yeah. I'm always like, no, no, no. I'm hot pink. But I think they should do that in acting classes to just mark the place up and just throw in. Well, I think they do it in film acting classes, right? I mean, I imagine they do. I've never taken one, but I imagine they do.

Yeah. If I taught one, I would, I would, I would, definitely have that as part of a curriculum. Your next project for you. Yeah. That's right. Film acting. So obviously, you know, Star Trek was like the mass, this massive thing that like everyone recognizes you for.

How did that come about? I just, I want to know everything. Spindrift, by the way. Spindrift. I noticed that. It's the same one. Love. Yours is pineapple?

Yeah. I haven't tried the pineapple yet. Oh, yours. This is lemon. Okay. Spindrift has like, it's the better can. to drink out of just FYI. Spindrift is the best.

You don't even get me started. I know. Yeah, Star Trek came about, I mean, my first job was the others, but my first meaningful job was heroes, which I did from 2006 till 2011, maybe, 10? 10. And that was the beginning of, like, it was my, I just turned 30. and I had been doing Heroes for a season, and then I got Star Trek right after that.

Like, I got Heroes and Star Trek within a year of my mother. And it was such a crazy time, because it's like heroes to me was, you know, so much of what I had set out to achieve in terms of a job, like a series regular job on a show that was a huge hit. But then people started asking me when I was doing press for heroes. Like, what else do you want to do? like what other jobs are out there for you?

And I had heard that JJ was making this Star Trek movie. And a friend of mine was like, you should play Spock. And I was like, I should play Spock. So I started talking about it as I was doing press for heroes. And then April Webster, the casting director, had somehow read an article or read an interview or found out that I had said that or something. And they started casting the movie. And I was the first person they brought in for that role. That was the only person who had done.

for it. What? Wow. I mean, I got that job in, I auditioned for it in April of 2007, and then I got the job in June, and then we filmed the movie in November. It was like crazy time, crazy time. Wow, that's a wild ride. But that's a wild ride.

Like you just put it out there and then. Yeah, I mean, yeah, sure. I think that works to varying degrees. That one was kind of like the most, I would just, I would just, never have expected it to work out that way, but I'm obviously grateful it did. It was a profound time in my life, you know, and like a real, a real touchstone for me and my own personal and professional evolution. For sure. Yeah. But I do think it takes a lot of courage to be able to, so it's like, if you unpack that and you go, okay, is that manifesting or is that creating your

own reality or is that taking such brave shots that you get it? Do you get what I'm saying? I do. I think manifesting is kind of for me, I don't know. It's a tricky concept. Yeah. Because I actually believe that like we're really just stepping into the experience that we're meant to have, right? So when people say, like, I'm manifesting something, my belief is that that's something it already exists in the future. It's already there, and what you're actually doing is, like, removing the obstacles that prevent you from stepping into that part of your experience. Yeah, like, I think of it more like that. Like, you know, that is already who I am. That is already what I'm meant to do. It's already what I'm doing. It's just a matter of me kind of.

of moving toward that more fully and less encumbered. And so I don't know that I was as conscious of that then as I am now, but I just knew that someone asked me a question and I answered it honestly at the time, and that is what triggered the thing to happen, right? So like, in that sense, I think it was always in process. And I just found my way to seeing it or naming it or, you know, asking for it to materialize at that time. Which is Intelliki.

Like, do you know what Intelliki is? No, I've never heard that word before. It's basically... I thought you were saying the wrong word. No, it's basically the whole map of the tree is in the acorn. Right, right. And so it's the exact. It's the exact thing you're describing is the intel of like it was always supposed to go there.

You just were taking one step along the way. Intelliki, how do you spell it? That's a great question. Kevin, I'm the worst, I'm like totally dyslexic, but Kevin will be able to tell us. It's like the knowledge of the acorn to the tree. Yeah, yeah, no, I love that. Me too. And I think that is, that's the philosophy or the spiritual foundation that I think I've come to most intrinsically understand in my own life, right?

That idea of like, we are an extension of nature and that nature, if you look at nature in every and any and always, it knows how to organize and it knows how to align with, the cycle of creation, maintenance, and destruction in the way that will happen regardless of our efforts to slow it down, stop it, or change it. And so the more we can allow that to unfold, the more that idea that you're presenting in Teliki can take shape in our own individual experiences just the way it does in the whole collective around us. So I really, that resonates for me a lot. I love that.

Yeah. I mean, it sounds like you have a lot of spiritual kind of beliefs and things. Or maybe I'm wrong, but I wanted to like hear more about your beliefs and if they've changed, you know, with the trajectory of your life and things like that. Definitely. I mean, I was raised very Catholic and adhered to that way of life, you know, all through my childhood. my mother was very religious. Church and religion and all of that was very important to her. And I think by proxy then, sort of I went along with it.

I went to Catholic school. I went to Catholic high school. But obviously, I never felt my own connection to it. It was always kind of me being a good boy. And so when I graduated Catholic high school, I never really went to church again unless it was like a Christmas for my mom or like when she forced me to go. Like I never, you know, whereas in high school I would go early to school so that I could go to church in the morning, go to mass in the morning before class. Like I don't know who I was trying to impress, but I guess my mom. Mom.

And so, yeah, like I just find that, you know, there are certainly things that I took from my upbringing in. the Catholic Church that I value and that I benefited from. But there are also many, many things that I've spent years and a lot of time and energy dismantling. And so I have to recognize that dichotomy. But I've also done a lot of my own spiritual exploration over the years in many different ways and have traveled and, you know, available. myself of, you know, different plant medicines and, you know, journeys into the jungle and

retreats and all kinds of different things. And the place that I've ended up at is a place of meditation and a meditation practice that is the foundation of my spiritual outlook now. And I've been meditating for the last seven years consistently and studying in in the lineage of meditation that I practice for that long as well. So that has been the single most definitive spiritual experience that I've had. And I think the one that is really the basis of how I look at the world now, for sure. And it's changed how I look at the world as well. What type of meditation?

I practice Vedic meditation, which is an offshoot of TM. So I actually got my mantra through TM, the transcendental meditation. But the Vedic meditation community is basically just an evolution of TM. It's the same technique, but it's a different community. And so I just found that it was more resonant for me. And I felt like when I got my mantra in TM, I wasn't really inspired to meditate. And I certainly wasn't inspired to learn, like to take advantage. knowledge courses.

And then there was a circumstance in my life. And I felt like I really needed a teacher. And through a series of non-coincidence coincidences, I ended up meeting someone who was a Vedic meditation teacher. And then it really opened up the whole practice for me. And all of the underlying knowledge that I've pursued since then suddenly took on a new meaning and a new perspective in my life. that's what I've been doing. So it's a twice daily meditation practice. And I do it first thing in the morning and then again in the afternoon for 25 minutes each time. And yeah, it's been pretty revolutionary for me personally.

Wow. So you find the time no matter what every day. Yep. 25. So if you're working or? I wake up 30 minutes before I need to wake up. So like whatever that means. Like if I have to get up at 6 a.m. for work, I get up at 5.000. And I just, the first thing I do, you know, I get up and splash some water on my face and then I just get back in bed and sit in bed and meditate. And then, yeah, and if I can do that, it's always easier to find another time later in the day. Whereas if I don't do it first thing in the morning, I get up and I start my day and I get distracted or get invested in other things, then it becomes much trickier to find two times later. So I've learned for myself that if I'm going to adhere to the twice daily practice, which is the preference, I have to do it first thing, no matter what.

So, yeah, like this morning I had to go to the dentist. And, yeah, great, great time. And I didn't wake up. I was like, ooh, like, I'm tired. I have a big day to day. I was like, I'm going to sleep until I have to get in the car to go to the dentist. But I'm going to take the car to the dentist instead of the train so that I can meditate in the car.

Like, that's a variation on the, you know, so I knew that I knew that I could. make time to do it before my day really got started. So I did that, you know. But the great thing about it is you can really do it anywhere. Like I love to go to sit in the park and meditate and like, you know, Washington Square Park or whatever park. Because it just, it brings the chaos of the experience around me into my own experience. And I get to transcend that thing and, and hold this kind of space in the middle of all of that for myself and for anybody else who's in that event horizon. It's, uh, It's sometimes challenging. I was doing it last weekend, actually, and someone came up to me. I had sunglasses on, and I was sitting there, and probably about four or five minutes into the meditation, I just feel somebody come and, like, take my glasses off my face. And it was so disorienting and so jarring to, like, pull me out of this state that I was in, that, like, my first thought was like, oh, who is this person that I must know that sees me sitting here

and doesn't know that I'm meditating is just like being cute or something. And that was not the case. It was a woman who was, I don't know, it was not that. She was, and she looked and she was like, what are you doing?

Get out of my mind. And I was like, oh, it was really, really. And she like held my glasses and I was like, what do I do? Oh my God. It was crazy.

It was really intense. And I was like, Can I have my glasses back, please? And she just stared into, like, my depth. Your soul? Yeah. Yeah. And eventually she gave my glasses back and then.

Were you in her mind, though? Were you? Maybe. Oh, my God. It wasn't in mine, but that's not to say I wasn't in her. Yeah, we don't know. Whoa. That is a crazy experience.

Yeah, it was a very New York moment. You answered one of my questions I had for you because I, I like your philosophy. Sometimes with the whole like manifesting thing, I too take trouble with certain aspects of it. Yeah. When you're trying to create something that maybe isn't actually an alignment with you. And so what you,

my question was is the way you approach it and the way you were describing where you are today was an unfolding of things that were always meant to be that you stepped into alignment. meant with. So my question was, how does someone get to that kind of space that isn't experiencing that at all and taking the wrong steps or feeling lost or discord or all of those things? And I feel like you kind of answered it with your practice. Right. It is about consistency and practice. I mean, first of all, I am not perfect at it, right? Like there are plenty of things that I think I should have, that I don't have or that I want or that I don't, you know, I mean, it's like, it's not like I'm always existing in some state of complete integration. However, I have awareness of the disparity

when I'm not, right? And so for me, the practice is really the thing that every day, twice a day, I come back to this stillness, this silence, and I create space for the remembering. and I create space for my true nature to exist in an uncomplicated and undistracted way. And then I bring that into my daily life, you know? And so I guess I would just say, like, you know, because I've done so many variations on spiritual exploration and psychedelics and, you know, mind-experation. kind of ceremonies and rituals and techniques over the years, you know, those have all been insightful, or many of them have been insightful in certain ways. However, I feel like what they aren't is consistent and what they aren't is sustainable and repeatable. And the thing that my

teacher has really made me understand is that it is in the consistent expansion of consciousness, that consciousness stays expanded. When I go to the jungle and take ayahuasca, which I haven't done in many years, but when I did do that, many times, my consciousness expands at such a rapid rate that their psychedelic experiences occurred because I'm not able to kind of keep up with that expansion.

And the benefits of that are intense and visceral and immediate and may last for some time, but eventually they're going to diminish and, you know, I'm going to go back to my life. But the thing is, every time I sit down to meditate, my consciousness expands a little bit more, and it never goes back once it expands, right? Like, it continually expands and expands. So over time and cumulatively, that experience creates the capacity to both bring that transcendent state into my daily life and bring my daily life into that transcendent state. And so that's the benefit of the practice for me. It allows me to understand that I am a part of everything, that I fit into everything.

In my own tiny infinitesimal little way, I fit into everything. I'm a part of everything. I am everything, essentially, right? We are totality, if you really break it down from this philosophical spiritual perspective. and that's been incredibly valuable to me because then I'm so much less attached to things. You know, I'm so much less bothered. I'm so much less, I don't hold on to things.

I still feel them. And I don't, I'm not defined by them in the same way. I don't carry them with me the way I might have otherwise or the way I used to. Right. And that's been really liberating, really, really liberating. Well, it's all about the attachment or detachment, right? I think that's the biggest thing and a lesson I've always been taught my whole life.

My mom's very spiritual and whatnot. It's just not being attached, like anything. I've been, this is like something very surface, but been like robbed many times. But it's like no attachment to anything. Like the material thing, whatever it is, just being able to like let things go and not. But it's. And it's not perfect, you know. My teacher tells this, uses this analogy.

which is that if you take a big rusty chisel and you hammer it into the side of a limestone wall and you hammer a line into the side of the wall and you come back 10,000 years later, that deep line is still going to be in that wall. If you take that same chisel and you hammer it into sand, you know, that line might exist for whatever, 10 minutes until the wind comes or the water comes and washes it away,

If you take that same chisel and you hammer it into water, right, there's going to be barely any line at all, and it's going to be, you know, completely washed away almost instantly. And you think of the surfaces that we're talking about as your state of consciousness. And you think of the chisel as any kind of exterior forces or, you know, internal anxieties or dialogues. And the more that you meditate, the more that your state of consciousness goes from that rigid, you know, hard and, you know, impenetrable limestone to water. And like those forces, those exterior forces, those external stimuli become less and less impactful on your life. They may exist for a brief moment or a flash,

but the more you build the consistency with a practice, then the less impact they're gonna have on your life overall. That's right. You're amazing. I know, I'm like, it's amazing. And my stepdad. That's my teacher. No, but it takes a certain vessel to be able to deliver.

Open-mindedness and like the way you've taken it in and are able to share it. Yeah. Yeah. But your stepdad? But my stepdad has this conversation with my daughter. So it's her grandpa. And he's always going to how it's like water. And if you just let it, you know, and it ripples for a second, but then it goes away.

So they're teaching her this mentality early. Yep. Which is amazing. I think that's such an incredible. I don't have kids. But I mean, I think if or when, if I do that, you know, that understanding, integrating that understanding and that awareness as early as possible. Not only is it valuable to the child, but it's essential for our future, right?

It's like my teacher tells me all the time. Like, you have an obligation as a person who is pursuing an elevated consciousness to bring children into the world so that we can continue that, as opposed to, unfortunately, so much of what we're seeing in the world right now, which is a narrow thinking, and a narrow world view and a small, fearful, hateful perspective, which is rooted in fear of the unknown and rooted in fear of the existential threats that we face and that face us imminently. So, anyway, that's wonderful. That makes me really, really happy that, you know, that those conversations be had with your daughter.

I wasn't even, like, really aware until you just told, you know, your story, how your teacher puts it. And I was like, oh, my God, wait, he's doing the same thing with my daughter. Yeah, great. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he's an amazing meditation teacher. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also, we had a circumstance the other day where my son was explaining to me some thoughts he had. And I was like, wow, most people don't even know that's happening when they're older.

And he's nine. And he was saying, I have this voice that lies to me and says this. And I was like, amazing. And the fact that you witness that that's a lie, that that's a voice. And so I sat down with him for a good hour and we talked about the ego and witnessing it and what it does and all of this. And so then we went to hockey yesterday and he didn't want to play. And he was like, no, I'm going to get hurt and this and that. And I said, is that that voice again?

And he goes, yeah, it is. It's telling me I can't do it and I'm not good enough. And I said, so what if you witness that and do it anyways? And then we could come back to that voice after. And he did. And he got out there and he played and he came back and he goes, yet again, the voice was wrong. Wow. That's so cool.

I was so excited, you know? Yeah, you guys are really, I mean, I don't know you well, but those are great stories, both of them. Like to know that you're raising kids that way is really inspiring because we need it. We need, you know, we need souls of expansion in this world now more than ever. Oh, my God, I know. Inspiring. It's moving. Oh, that's sweet. I think they're actually at a rapid speed, to be honest.

Well, it's way different than when we all grew up, right? Like the awareness alone and obviously the world alone, it's like calling for both at like a rapid. They're both just as fast as the other. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's alarming. It's deeply unsettling, and it's really, it's really, it can be overwhelming.

You know, I don't know what I would feel or think if I didn't have a meditation practice at this moment in particular. You know, just the pace of the world and technology in particular in the way that it's just denigrated our capacity to allow other people to exist and to have a differing point of view or differing opinions. You know, it's an AI and climate change and all of these things that are happening right now that are, that are, I've been saying this for a long time, but, you know, I think a big part of all this, like, the election wasn't about the, it wasn't about politics. You know, the election was a mandate, it was a referendum on consciousness, really, is what it was. And unfortunately, we're living in a time where narrow consciousness of darkness is prevalent and gaining strength and gaining power and the confluence of technology and social media and all these echo chambers that we create for ourselves, I think, have really accelerated that and made it more pernicious and more dangerous. And we're living, I think, really right now in the time where we're seeing the consequences of that. in almost in real time.

And so I think it's so important to be able to navigate that with as much equanimity as we can. And it's not amazing. It doesn't feel amazing to me anyway. Lately, I've been hard. I question anyone who thinks it is. You know, it's like amazing things can happen and great stuff is still happening all around us on a daily basis and we can be as grateful as. humanly possible. But if you don't feel any effect of what's happening, that to me points to

something disconnected and scary in itself, right? But I do think that what you're saying is so important. And it also goes back, I'm in the program, like a 12-step program. And one of the things that they always say is your your serenity is based on a daily reprieve right so if you used to use alcohol or drugs or any of these numbing devices you had to do it every day to feel the relief right you can't get drunk off of yesterday's beer unfortunately so it's the same thing with meditation or whatever spiritual practice it's a daily reprimed. And definitely. You reminded me of that today so strongly where I'm like, that's exactly what I need.

I'm like, it's meditation. And I have a daily amnesia where I forget. Yeah. You know? So I'm so glad we had this. But it can be different for everyone. Like whether it's taking a walk, whether it's, you know, just to keep you present and to keep you centered really is what it is. You know what I saw on Instagram?

I wasn't last night. They're like, we're the last generation that knows, that's going to know what it was like before social media existed. And that tripped me out. I was like, oh, my God. Right. Like the kids were raising. Everyone from here on out, this thing exists. And we were like the last ones.

And this doesn't have to do really what we were saying. But it popped in my head just because of like how quick things are changing, what the world is like, all the fear-based shit. And that alone, which is just so scary to me. Yeah? Yeah. It is scary. It's weird. We do the wolf analogy that your mom taught me.

You know, the wolf analogy. Which wolf you feed, that one? Yeah, whichever wolf you feed. And so I have to ask myself that. I'm like, am I going to feed the collective terrifying narrative, or am I going to feed the wolf that gives myself space to breathe and connect to what's actually real? Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, the trouble of that, I think, too, is like, you know, our brains have been rewired, right? Like, you talk about neural pathways, you talk about, you know, neuroscience and neurology. And, like, technology has rewired our brains. I've really noticed it in myself, right? Like, my relationship to my phone, my relationship to the access that my phone provides to whatever it is I need or want or I'm looking for in that given moment, right? Is it validation? Is it food? Is it connection? Is it, you know, stimulation? Is it news? Is it what is it? Is it real? Is it, you know, and because of the way that these apps are designed to trigger dopamine release and to recycle that dopamine release, but it's empty dopamine, right? You're not, it's not aligned with anything. It's not earned and it's not aligned with anything that is substantive, really. we as a culture have become increasingly agitated, impatient, demanding, unaccepting. And then, you know, you factor into social media and the way that, like, you just, the algorithm just caters itself to whatever it is that you want to see or hear or watch or learn.

And, you know, we've really kind of done ourselves a disservice and it didn't realize it until it was too late. But I mean, I think about it just in terms of like my relationship to food, right? Like all I can, I just need to be like, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, and then there's like whatever I want. But like, is it good? Where is it coming from? Like, think about these ghost kitchens. Like you order food from a place that's not even a restaurant. It's like an industrial kitchen somewhere that has like four different restaurants that don't exist that are just making food that's getting like the, the subtlety, the nuance and the special.

esophicity of the human experience is being eroded and erased, you know? And I just am really like, how can I change that and interrupt that in my own life? And I haven't figured it out yet, but I'm definitely, you know, it's so much easier. I live in New York City. I can get whatever I want. I don't have time to cook. I'm just home for a few days or I'm at work or, you know, it's like convenience and instant gratification have become such a distrable. instructive reliance. Yeah. And it's just really, really, I don't know how you put the toothpaste back in the tube now.

You know, it's like how do we always say that? Yeah, it's true. I know, I had to cut myself off from DoorDash. Like, I had to stop. Like, proud of wild. I'm proud of you. No, I did. I was like, no, I'm going to Trader Joe's.

I'm like planning. I'm doing all the things. But you have to remind yourself. I think I'm at that place now. I've never really thought of it as anything other than like, oh, great. convenience but then I'm like wait a minute I'm eating another fucking meal that I don't know who made it or what's in it or you know it's like I got to I got to raise the bar for myself you know and bring myself back to the human experience it's like all we have control over is

ourselves and you know maybe to some extent our loved ones or families or kids or partners whatever but how can I be living a life that's more aligned more aligned more aligned more aligned right more aligned with with my ideals and my perspective and like you know myself like i i've just been finding that question has been coming up more and more and more and to i know especially this day and age with everything well we're always like we need a compound i want to like make my own stuff you know the ideal like the fantasy right whether it's a reality or not people are making it realities now i think there's some movements to be like yeah let's see what it's like to grow your own vegetables and stuff To be fair, though, your job is very consuming.

So it's not like you could work those hours of your crime. And come home and like make a full meal. It's true. I mean, I have to find balance and grace for myself in it. But it's just something that I've been noticing as like a broader. Just an awareness. We keep just talking about awareness, I think, is that's our, that's our theme for this conversation. Yeah.

But it's true. Even, you know, with our kids, like I noticed such a difference if my daughter starts the day watching TV or whatever it is versus not and it's actually crazy it's crazy how irritable or like how hard it is for her to transition into the day when she starts with any electronics oh yeah the iPad is crack it's literal crack rock like they act like lunatics i know i was with a friend and he has a daughter um she's i think she's six adorable sweet you know And we were we were kind of on a weekend getaway and all she wanted was the iPad. All she wanted was the iPad.

You know, it was like the thing. And she was watching these like videos of like like someone putting the other Lego things. And like it wasn't even interesting or like it was just like I could see it in her like the kind of like I just need more. I just need more. And like that's how we all are. Right. It's just like we are. Yeah.

We are the last sort of generation to know the difference. And that's the thing that I feel both grateful for, but I also feel like is a terrible tragedy because we know what it was like to be like, I'm going to go outside and play, you know, release with my friends on a summer night because that's what we do to pass the time as opposed to like give me the thing I want that's going to make me feel instantly seen, instantly gratified, instantly taken care of, instantly soothed, right? Then it just becomes another age.

of habituation addiction you know it's like yeah so i don't know i mean how do we it's like a lot of big questions that are being asked right now i know um yeah yeah we're trying to rewind it over here at my house anyway landlines yeah yeah i mean all of it so what was the thing you said oh landline oh land like yeah like calling friend where that you can't see or make like filters on or you know Right. Whatever. So just like little movements, just little tiny changes. Yeah, I told you my son was like every night he has to read for 30 minutes. And he started reading a different book every night. And I was like, no. His brain wants that short content. And I was like, yeah. So I was like, we're going to start a book and we're going to finish a book.

Yeah. One book. Let's just stay with a book. But I was like, it's so insidious. that you can't even see it's rewiring their brains to be like short deliverable content. Yeah. Even in a book. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So scary.

It is scary. But then again, I'm like, okay, it is what it is. Like we have to work with it. We can't change it, right? All we can do is our best to try and teach them and expose them. No, literally meditation. We talked about this week with a great. group of moms with our five boys.

We're like, how do we incorporate meditation with them? How do we do it? You know? And now we found our teacher. I wish that could be. I've talked about it, but I'm not yet all the time. But if I continue on my path, maybe one day. Oh, amazing.

Well, thank you so much for this conversation. We're so excited for season two of Brilliant Minds. I'm glad we talked about everything we talked about. It's nice to like, you know, we're here for the show, but it's nice that you guys are, you know, asking these questions and inviting your audience into these conversations because I do think they're so important. And it's nice to know that there are people out there having them and sharing them. So thanks for having me. No, thank you. This was wonderful.

It was a great conversation. This is right up our alley. We love it. We talk to you all day. Vice versa. Tell your husband. I say hello. And, well,

I'm grateful for that memory. Please give them my best. Absolutely. That was a fun little thing to share. It was fun. Yeah. Thanks for sharing it. Okay, good. Nice to chat to you. Yeah. Be well. Have a great one. You too. You too. Bye. Bye. That was a hate gum podcast.