Bros & Shows - Debbie Downer Has Appendicitis? (RHOC Full Recap S20E5)

Episode Date: August 11, 2026

What's up bros?? We're back in the OC trying to sort out just what a developer is and for some reason we really care about this. The Idea that a wedge might be developing between Gina & Emily sounds kinda fun in a terrible way; but let's be honest, that won't work out with this group. We might actually be getting somewhere and we're still in optimistic phase 5 episodes in so we'll definitely take it! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm trying. I'm really trying here. And I just can't. There's such losers, dude. This is, it's a tough watch. It's a tough watch for me. I'm not going to lie. I don't know. Somebody must have like spiked my drink at some point with the OC Kool-A because I thought this was actually a pretty good episode.

I thought it, I thought it really could have gone so poorly. This is, again, we talk about the standard. We talk about where the bar is for OC in particular. I feel like you see where things are going, you see the old OC, and then when they deviate somehow, you're just so pleasantly surprised that it turns into a good episode.

That's where I am after this moment. I think it's good that we're not both just shitting on it. Yeah, dude, that would suck. We have enough of those shows right now. Yeah, agreed. As there's a drive in a deep left field by Castellanos. Oh, man, it's 8 o'clock. And so that'll make it a...

I don't need the spotlight. I shine just fine. Hi, I'm karma. And yes, I am a bitch. Brov Bros. Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Brav Bros. Your favorite podcast from The Bros.

For everybody, for whoever wants to listen, I am your co-host, Steele Russell, joined as always by the one and only shooter Magouter. What's up, dude? She's the legal name. Positive. Positive, McGee. Yeah, look, this was a big episode. This was a, a, a. make or break for not only Carmela,

but also for the entire cast, because as we talked about in the beginning, they could have taken this whole thing. Emily, Gina, Heather, Tamara, any of them could have taken it to the level that OC has gotten used to in the last five years that drives us up

an absolute wall. But instead, it actually ended okay. I was pretty optimistic at the end of this episode. I know you weren't, but I think you're just bored, which, again, we talked about this last week.

If you're bored, that's still better than hating it. So let's just take it. the wins where we can get them. No, you're right. Here's my problem because we've done this for so long and especially with this show and just we'll lump them all together, the California Housewives in general. Yeah. I see where it's going. I see it. I can see the writing on the wall. You get hints of it, like little taste here, little taste there. We've deviated away from like the full OC meltdowns that we've had in the past. I agree with that. And sure, maybe that's a glimmer of hope. I have

no faith in this cast to deliver on that deviation to where I know we're just going to go back to the same thing. And I think my biggest issue, you know, I, because I agree, like the show itself, I'm not like throwing my notebook

and getting pissed off. It's more so, it's so forced in so many scenes. Like the drama that we're trying to build up in this season is so silly and not in like a fun silly way. Are we really going to hammer this shit home every week?

We're really going to talk about Carmela and the Dior clutch every single week. We are still going to talk about Tamara and Shannon every single week. We're going to talk about, I feel like Emily and Heather always get into like a little spat too. And I have to clean that up. It just feels to me and where I was looking towards Vicky to be our reprieve. Now she's hammering the same shit. home every episode. But Debbie Downer things done. I'm over the day. I knew it. That's exactly what I do. You were going to hate it. When she did it like the third or fourth time, like, oh, Steele's really

going to hate this. That's, that is what you get with Vicki. I find it charming. I find it funny. I know she's going to do it for now. Emily stepped on it. I mean, you do something like that. Vicki's just going to run with it the whole time. But again, it's more just, I know we're going to talk about the same things. It's just kind of the matter in which we talk about it. So if they continue to just hammer at home in the same way with no new nuances and no new direction, then yeah, it just gets stale and boring and we get annoyed with them and then we start to hate them again. But if they start to switch it up a little bit here and there, because we're going to have very different conversations with Tamara and Shannon.

I don't know if you watched all to the girl's trip yet, but that was that was not bad. What we were. I haven't seen it. I've heard good things, though. It was no, it was a good show. It's a funny show. But the tamper shan thing. The Snafu at the Quiet Lady or whatever.

Correct. That is what started off the Ultimate Girl's trip season. I was expecting World War III. I was expecting a knockdown dragout. Shannon left the bar crying. None of that happened. It's all the same shit. Tamara did the same shit.

Tamara was drunk. She made a little drinking gesture. That was it. And then the rest of the women were like, yeah, you don't have to put up at that shit, Shannon. She's like, wow, yeah, you're right. I don't.

She was fine at the end of the episode. But when we get into this season, all of a sudden, it's I will never forgive her. Like, what happened? nothing really happened, nothing different happened. So that kind of takes me off, but that's a different show for a different day that we'll cover tomorrow. But yeah, I don't know.

This is a big season in terms of where are we going to go from here, if they're not going to make any changes, which they really haven't, except for Carmela. And how well Carmela can carry yourself. There were some little glimpses here and there. I even found myself agreeing, even though it was a lot of bullshit. When you get to the core of what Gina's saying, when you get to the core of what the rest of the group is talking about with Carmela, I kind of agreed with them. She is kind of fucking weird.

The way she moves about and tries to make friends is a little strange, but we'll talk about that more in depth a little bit later, because I can probably sway you. I know the way you think. I'll be able to kind of push you in the right direction. I think it's just, it's a matter of breaking down your walls, pal. We got to break down your walls where you look at somebody like Gina and you're like,

I can't agree with you ever. Shut up. Stop talking. Yeah. So she is absolutely jealous of Carmela and the Dior clutch. I think two things can be sure. I can meet you there. If you can shuffle through all of the horse shit on top where Gene is coming from

and find where she's kind of trying to make a point, it does make sense. And there are some questions about Carbell. So I'm okay with that too. I don't need Carbella to walk in there and be a rock star. I just need to be somewhat interesting and make everybody else interesting. That's really all I wanted Vicky to do. Walk into the show, be yourself, make other people interesting because the majority of this cast is just non-interesting. no and carmel is definitely coming in interesting and different and like yeah if this is a different

show and we're talking about how you came into the group i still would never will never understand why we're going to talk about her like buying a deal or clutch and like showing off that she has some cash like that doesn't make any sense to me especially in the housewives realm i will also never understand like it just makes you look like such a loser especially in a network where dildos and vibrators are constantly given his gifts. And you're going to, like, clutch your pearls on that. I will meet you halfway in, you know, are we certain that she's coming into this group with all good intentions?

I don't know. I can agree with you there. And I can understand Gina trying to, like, pick apart. Why are you coming in this way? Are you trying to snuggle up to Emily because you think that she is in a position of power in the group? Or is it all actually genuinely just kind of quirky? So yes.

and we'll talk about it more when we get down there. But yeah, well, let's just get into it because we'll break it down a little bit. And as you can tell, like, I'm not angry at the show. I'm not like, feeling it with your points. Like, I'm open to hearing them. I'm trying my best to navigate this show. It's just we keep hitting these little like faux pauses that we've done every season.

I'm like, no, damn it. Don't do that again. And Gina, why are you getting so much fucking screen time? What happened? I have no idea Gina's getting the most screen time I think if we were to actually look at it I think it's Gina and then maybe Vicky

just because we have to do well not right now we don't but we had to do a bunch of parts of Iorta scenes with her where she's just one-on-one but if you look at that it's like oh that makes total sense Vicki's coming back you know she's the OG we're going to talk about her a lot this is her big triumphant return and then there's Gina in second place with screen time

you're like why but what there's nothing going on I'm sorry but like there is really nothing going on in Gina's life for us to really be that interested or paying attention there's got to be something else going on and maybe there isn't maybe that's the big problem here is there is something going on in vicki's life carmel is new what else do we have jena and travis might be getting married uh no no no no um appendicitis uh you know i can't wait to talk about that scene i cannot wait to talk about that well let's just jump in we start out and yeah like i you clocked me immediately because we start out with

I'm not a Debbie down. I was like, fuck, stop. But they're talking about the, the Heather and Jen stuff and the fact that, you know,

Jen was questioning Heather's intentions. And that's a part of the season that I like still. And I still have some hope that we're going to be able to at least have a different conversation when it comes to Heather because Jen doesn't seem to be backing down from it. But we do get a scene, I guess it was dinner or like the night prior or two nights before. And it was Jen and Heather talking it out. here's my thing with when it comes to heather because we seem to have these moments with a lot of the cast members a lot of the time something goes on and to her credit like she will always sit down with people and have a cordial conversation try to get to the end of it but i'm now starting to think because we always have to have these scenes where she sits down with somebody that she's beefing with a little bit and just we she's figured out how to not get quite

questioned any further. Like there's no resolution here. She's not acknowledging like that she is moving a certain way, but her and Jen are going to move forward because it's like, well, if we do have a problem in the future, let's talk to each other about it. And that's what she does with everyone. But what that does is kind of close the door on some of the shit that people are questioning other about. Yeah, she does it in a pretty effective way too, where we don't get to ask any more questions about it. And if you do, you're the bad person. And again, this is, we talk. We talk. about it from our perspective we don't trust this cast because they haven't earned our respect to be like oh they'll figure it out at the end of the season something will work they'll pull something

out of their pocket and there's there's going to be a good scene and it's going to tie everything together they've never done that as far as i'm concerned so they haven't earned that respect but within the group i guess heather has earned that respect or rather it's sort of a mix of it's not worth it for me to continue to go after you because you just kind of shut down deflect move on to the next thing and and then you try to resolve things. It's almost like she's gotten so good at resolving that people actually feel satiated. We're like, okay,

yeah, this is fine. Like if you're Jen, I know Jen has a lot of things going on. We've been talking about that the whole season. So maybe she is a little quick to just kind of give up on it and be like, whatever. Let's just move forward.

I don't really need to talk about it anymore either because I have a lot of things going on. But Heather is very- fires in California. Yeah, apparently it wasn't Grace and we kept getting DMs about that one. Apparently it's the youngest one that we don't really know. But we think her first season, we got introduced to everybody and then since then we've lost a kid pretty much every time that we go through every season we lose one.

Yeah, so I don't think it was, Grayson. But that being said, Heather's effective ability at just moving forward is in different shows, very commendable. It's one of those things like, thank God we're moving forward from this. But in this show, it's like, wait a minute, we wanted something different. We wanted to do something fun and going after Heather was going to be the thing. And now we're not. Dingo.

And like you said, it is masterful. Like I will give her credit. She's really good at just kind of sidestepping things. And she does it with resolution. So then she actually garners support without having to acknowledge what's going on. So I give credit where credits do. It's good housewifery on her part.

But we get to Carmella and Emily. Emily's going over to Carmela's house. I like that we get a little MTV cribs here. We get to kind of pop around her place, which looks really nice. But I do have questions about it after seeing it. because and this is completely off the cuff, I have no evidence,

look kind of like a rental, in my opinion. It didn't look very homely. And I don't know. I mean, it is a rental. Oh, okay. So that's confirmed.

I didn't know that she pays $35,000. Oh, that's right. It is a rental. There you go. Okay, well, then that brings me, like there are ways to question Carbella. Right?

Maybe that's where I get frustrated with the show because there's certainly a world in which you can look at all the stuff and be like, huh, I'm not sold on her yet. But then when they go into their reasons, I'm like, well, that's not why we should be questioning her. She's given us no reason to question her occupation. She seems pretty legit. And Vicki, you haven't talked to her at all. But I do weirdly like this friendship that's budding between Emily and Carmela only because of what it does to the rest of the group. I love the fact that Gina's in such a tizzy simply because Emily's hanging out with Carmela.

Like that's funny to me. That is a really good point. And it's only a matter of time until we really start questioning that, especially if the two of them keep hanging out and Gina is in a tizzy. Eventually Heather's going to ask. Eventually, Tamara's going to see it as low hanging fruit and start asking questions because we know that's going to happen. Emily, on the other hand, this is where it starts with me because my distrust of Emily is

so high. It is like she will never come back down from that level. So when I see her hanging out with Carmela knowing that this is really going to upset Gina, especially knowing what Gina thinks about Carmela and how she's quote unquote protecting her because she doesn't trust her intentions. I don't trust Emily.

Like there's no reason, there's no way that anybody could sit me down and be like, oh yeah, Emily's really interested in being friends with Carmela. She's not. She just isn't. She knows what she's doing. It's either for the show

or it's for some other weird ulterior motive that is yet to be revealed. I don't know exactly what it is. But when she sits down in this scene and she starts kind of walking through it. And the first thing out of her mouth is essentially, well, you know, Gina's asking a lot of questions. She has a lot of questions about that Dior purse.

And, you know, by the way, I loved it. I thought it was great. But maybe I didn't have to open the dildo in front of the kids. It's like, oh, I didn't realize that was going to happen. My bad. That should have just immediately gone away. Like you said, this is not the first nor last time that we're going to see something like that on a show like this.

But her first point is just that Gina's upset. And it's like, okay, why are you bringing this to her intention? this way. This is a weird thing to do. You could have gone about this, like you said, many different ways. You could have questioned her while doing this, but instead it was, let me just let you know that Gene is a little uncomfortable. And while we're at it, Vicki's also very uncomfortable. It's like, okay, I don't trust any of this.

I know what you're doing right now. This is not good intentions from a friend, a budding friendship where you're going to sit down and walk her through and hold her hands as you go through the whole process with her. None of that's happening. You're just bringing it to her attention to see what her reaction is. So all she's doing is just sitting down, gauging reaction. actions, trying to figure out her intentions moving forward.

She's lazy drama inciting. That's what it is. It's just like the low-hanging fruit. This is an easy one. Piss off Gina. Get Carmella riled up about Vicki, and then I'll send them all after each other and I'll step out. We've seen her do it a million times.

It is funny to me that at the top of your list is Emily, as far as like untrustworthy. And mine is Gina. And we just come together in this beautiful brav-brose moment. It makes sense with them being best friends, yeah. I know. So as we're kind of going through this scene, we also get Jen with Vicky, so you get a juxtapose scene. And it's pretty much just about Vicki's distrust of Carmela.

Again, I'm cool with questioning a new housewife. I'm cool with digging a little bit, try to find out what's going on. Vicky, it's giving something totally different. It's giving just, I think because this woman's attractive and was in Playboy, you think that she's lesser that. Like, that's all it's giving. She's like, why is she sharing her profit margins? Probably because everyone keeps questioning the Dior thing and the money thing and all of that stuff. But meanwhile, while that's going on and Vicky and Jen are talking about it, Jen tells her about this opportunity that Carmela has to help her out in designing one of her houses that she's developing.

When I hear that, I'm like, cool. She's going to give her 20 grand. Like, that's a lot of money. Could it be a flex? I don't know. Is it nefarious? Perhaps. But I feel like we need to acknowledge both sides of it where Vicki's like, ha, that's bullshit. It's like, I don't think it's bullshit. It doesn't feel bullshit-ish to me.

So can't we be like, oh, good for you guys, but also curious. Like somewhere in the middle instead of just like, p. Good for you guys is not a sentence that is ever uttered on Housewives. Like, not once. I don't think that's ever happening. which is actually kind of funny given the kumbaya that we have at the end of the episode talking about like raising women up. I'm like, I don't really believe half of me, especially Vicky. I definitely don't. I don't believe Vicky at all. But this is where my brain starts to turn a little bit because it's Jen. And we know Jen and we know her trials and tribulations, mostly tribulations when it comes to money. So this is a weird thing and it makes me feel like. And look, maybe she is doing exactly what she says at the end of the episode. Maybe that's just who Carmela is. I don't know her enough. But to me. me it does seem enough to raise a bit of an alarm like are you buying friends because that's what it's starting to seem like there's a pattern the pattern we're from emily's d'or bag to now gen they're

not like kind of weird suspects when it comes to this crew she's not trying to buy tamer she's not trying to buy vicky she's going for other people in between she's just kind of gathering a crew by doing it this way and when vicky starts talking about it it's obviously just a matter of it's a matter of just like job title which is kind of annoying but I get it at the same time the semantics of this episode but the thing is I think everybody on the cast stands carmela would actually agree like all right yeah whatever you call yourself a developer because you're literally developing properties but that's not in the real estate term what a developer is that's what everybody's getting hung up on and jean is getting hung up on it of course because she wants what

Carmela is doing and she's not doing that because the gay group isn't doing as well as she says it is. So I'll leave Gina out of this. But for everybody else who's been involved in real estate along the way, they're like, wait, that's not a developer, that you're just, you're flipping. But for Carmela, flipping sounds like what people do on TikTok when they're like, hey, I'm going to make a lot of money by flipping this house and they make like a $20,000 profit margin. Once she makes that $1.4 million, she's like, flipper sounds bad for what I do. That sounds middle class.

I'm high class. I'm going to call it a developer. that. I can get behind it for the right reasoning, but coming into a new group with somewhat, you know, for this crew, somewhat affluent women, they're going to question it. So the fact that they're questioning it, now she's getting pissed off about that tells me that that's exactly what it is. Just cop to it. I just need Carmelo to be like, yeah, I can understand why you think it's flipping, but I, you know, my director title is of development because I develop already established properties, whatever. I don't think anybody's going to keep going with that, or at least they shouldn't.

But I understand where the mix up is there. And I kind of agree. with Vicki. If you're going to just throw it out there like, hey, I made $1.4 million on my first house. What are you trying to do? Doing that with the Dior clutch, doing that with hiring Jen out of all people to come do that and paying her $20,000 and telling her right away, $20,000. So she tells the rest of the group. Throwing money around is cool, but buying friends in a group like this is a little suspect. So that's the one thing that I'm kind of raising an alarm on. I'm cool with raising alarms. I'm cool with like keeping it on our radar. I think it's it's bugging me because, you know, with Vicky, with Gina, Emily's side comments here and there, we're not giving

her a chance to show is she buying friends or is she a very charitable person? I don't know. I do like the fact very much, especially on a cast like this where they're all so like rigid and boring that you have a cast member in Carmelah that's like talking about a rest. restraining order and not saying like 100% like oh it wasn't my fault saying no yeah I violated that like that was on me granted she incited it but I definitely definitely added to like I like that she's taking accountability for the shit that's going to inevitably pop up because we've seen that how many times when you get a new housewife doesn't talk about something and then eight nine episodes in it comes out of nowhere and they get steamrolled so I I like that she gets ahead of things you know the marriage stuff like all of that she's

very open to talking about the shit that gets used against her. I think that's a good move. Usually you try to get ahead of that entirely and have a full conversation with somebody, maybe just not one person and especially that one person being Emily. Because Emily will turn back around and tell everybody about it. And it won't be a good way. It'll be more of, do you believe this? We should ask her more questions about this rather than what it should have been,

which is with a couple of people. And then you can kind of get ahead of it. Well, they'll still ask questions, honestly, with this group. But I don't know. It seems like there's a lot to Carmela, and I like that she's being pretty open about it. And again, I'm just, I'm drawing flags. I'm raising alarms not for like, get this woman off the screen. More just like, I kind of see what you're doing here.

You're going to get in trouble at some point. Yeah. Yep. Totally. But you get a quick check in with Tamara and Sophia. Sophia talking about getting married. You know, I would just send them Angela, Angela's way from Atlanta. You know, she had that whole discussion with her daughter, her daughter.

started up saying, you were right, Mom. So I don't know. Sophia, maybe watch Atlanta and get a better idea. But we get the Heather, Shannon, Gina, Emily, and Vicki. Again, starting the scene out with Debbie Downer, which is turning her into a Debbie Downer for me. But Tamara and Heather, this is pretty much just all about Tamara, period. And we've talked about it.

We do want resolution. I do want to move forward from the B. beefs with Tamara. I don't want this show to be centered around. And that at the same time, I must use my brain and logic here ever so slightly. What about this version of Tamara gives you any more confidence than the same exact version of Tamara we saw in the beginning of last season, who was going to therapy and was taking everything in stride? Now, everybody that's had beef with her is getting to the point of like, like, Shannon, that's the first time I felt a genuine apology. Why? What was genuine and different about this one than any of the other ones in the past.

Why? I don't understand how we're crossing this bridge with Tamara. Again, I'm happy we are and I hope that it's done. I would love to not go back and keep doing the, are we friends with Tamara storyline because it's very old. But logically, like, what are we seeing differently? Nothing. We're not seeing anything differently.

I don't know what they're seeing. They must have some weird blinders on in some way. and maybe they just, I know, it's got to be like a weird cosmo of, I want to be friends with Tamara, says she doesn't use things against me. It's better to have her as a friend than an enemy. I also don't want to film with someone I actively hate. Like a lot of those things probably go into it,

so that's probably what we say. But in a way, I almost want to like applaud Tamara because I'm not seeing anything different, but she's still able to do this year and and year out. And that for me is incredible. I think it's great work by her. it just never lasts. I wanted to last a little bit longer.

I mean, last year it only lasted until we got to, what, New Orleans? And that's what she had our total meltdown. But she does attribute that to Teddy. So now the Teddy's doing better. Maybe she won't have a different excuse to use when she inevitably blows up. I just don't know when it's going to come. I hope it comes later.

Like, at least give me half a season of you just doing this. I'm okay with that. Because right now, again, the show is boring for a lot of people. There's some ups and downs. There's a couple more ups than we've seen in the last couple of years. so maybe if we can maintain that for like eight or nine episodes we can stave it off and maybe tamara's meltdown will come at a better time when other people are involved in other drama and tamer can melt down at the appropriate time rather than just melting down when there's nothing going on and there's nothing to really talk about so i don't know i find myself in that weird place where i again don't trust tamer because i don't know what she's going to do i trust her to do also i trust her to do her job it's just she does her job too much sometimes where it's sometimes you have to let things go and we're We saw that last year too, where she would get information and we're like, oh, when's she going to use that? Before we could even finish the sentence, she was already using it.

So she's just jumping on things too early. I need her to let things sit, let them ruminate, let other people actually get involved before you do anything. Because that's the one thing that's huge for this show. When Tamara gets involved, she's a wrecking ball that's going to run through the whole group. If you're involved in it, you don't want to be in the way. But if you don't think Tamara's going to do anything, you'll get involved in it. Like, that's part of the show. So I need everybody to be in the way of the tamer wrecking ball.

That's what I want this year. Yeah, no, I agree. And, yeah, props to her for always doing her job. You're 100% correct. For being genuine. Yeah, it's the inability to step out of that role for a little bit that she runs into trouble. But I will never fault her for doing her job. No.

Again, that's the one thing about Tamara. I think both of us will agree. If she doesn't do that role, who's going to do it? No one on the show is going to do it. The show would be awful. So the fact that she does it and the fact that she feels like she has to do it all the time, I understand why she feels that way, but I just don't think right now she needs to do anything. I think right now you let things go for a little while because there is enough to talk about

whether whether it's really entertaining or not is besides the point. But for Tamara anyway, you do not have to get involved in a timer way just yet. You can still work behind the scenes if you want to. You can still make your side comments and talk to other people, but don't go full board right now. Agreed. 100% agreed. We'll get right back to the rest of our episode. But first, we're going to take a little at break. The war is over and both sides lost.

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But the other thing in this scene is the Heather Emily thing, And it's interesting for a couple of reasons. One, you know, Heather's bummed out because we started this season and, you know, she was talking about like being best friends. And I find out that she's talking to Jen and and spilling some tea here. And like that just hurts my feelings because of how I grew up. She blames your upbringing on being sensitive to this matter.

But here's the thing. Because her claim is I should be allowed to be who I am. I agree. Heather, the problem is a lot of us don't think that you're being yourself. I think that you change who you are from scene to scene based on who you're around. And I think that this is a perfect example of that. And I think also we need to stop being surprised when Emily talks shit about you. This is all she does.

She has nothing else in the arsenal than taking something you said in a moment of trust and weaponizing it against you. It's her only move. What is she going to talk about? Fucking Seth or whatever. Is it Shane? I always get the Seths and Shane's mixed up. Like, thank you.

Like, that's, she has nothing else to discuss. So she's going to take what she said, use it against you, and then have a kumbaya moment and try to move on from it. Because at the end of the day, she does not want to go against Heather, the same way that Gina doesn't want to go against Heather, which is why Gina co-sides. Heather in this scene, but claims to be Emily's best friend. That's my whole point on the disingenuousness of this show. It's like you guys don't know where you land because you're just trying to either appease

the audience or appease somebody in the group that you think isn't better standing than you. Yeah, they're either appeasing Heather slash Tamara or the audience at all times, which that's when it gets really tiring. I think this scene's a little bit different because I do think, even though I don't think the Gina Carmelah thing is real. And I do think Gina knows exactly what, or I'm sorry, the Emily Carmela thing is real. And I do think that Emily knows what she's doing to Gina, but she's, I'm assuming behind the scenes like, oh, this is going to play really well.

Like that's, again, I don't trust Emily. That's what I think she's doing. If she's not. And Gina really is spiraling a little bit where she's looking at Emily like, why are you going against me? Why are you telling Carmela the things that I thought I was telling you in confidence? A split there would be awesome. I would watch the shit out of that because that's just dumb and dumb.

bad and worse going against each other. And I'm completely cool with that as long as everybody else just kind of hangs back. So there might be a little piece of that where now Gina's like realigning herself and looking at Heather like, oh, wow, Emily's going after Heather. Maybe I could be friends with Heather. There's some good real estate there. I can get the gaining group up to LA. That would be great for me too.

That's what she's probably thinking. But with Heather anyway, it's like at what point do you look at the camera or go to your confessional and say, maybe Katie Janella's daughter was right. Maybe Emily's kids were talking shit on me. Maybe Emily does go home and talk shit on me to Shane and the kids heard it and then told Katie's daughter, who then told Katie, who then told the whole group and I got really mad at,

chastised and got her kicked off the show. She's never going to do it. But you know deep down if this is a real thing. Again, a lot of things with OC are completely fake. If it's a real thing and Heather's really thinking about it, you know her and Terry are sitting down like, God, Katie's daughter was pretty. I'll be right. I feel bad for that girl. She was definitely telling the truth. We ran her out of

what are we doing. This was Emily's fault. That's all I want because that's what I think of every single time when we're doing this again and again and again and again. It happened three times last year. It's happened twice already this year. Eventually someone's going to have to break that barrier and talk about it. I don't think they will. I don't think they will. They never talk about people who are off the show unless it's Monica Garcia and Salt Lake. Everybody else is just like, nah, we can't talk about them. They're not on the show. Especially this cast. You raised a good point. She raised a very good point. Tamara, actually, would be a great person to just jump in and be like,

huh, Katie Janella was right, huh? How about that? That would be great. I would love to see that. Somebody should fucking do it at some point. I just don't know if it's going to work because it's Heather. And I don't think that Heather's ever going to actually openly admit and be like, no, yeah, Katie was totally right.

Emily's wrong. She'll never do it. No, God, no. She would never bite that bullet entirely. You are right, though. There's a glimmer of hope that Tamara brings that up. Mm-hmm. Other than that, nobody else.

also bring it up. They barely even said her name last season when she wasn't on camera. They would reference her. They wouldn't say Katie, just her. That's the level of just vindictiveness of this group. But Tamara might. That's actually, I got my fingers crossed for that now. That's the, how bad is that? Every time that it's like surmise like what could happen like, oh yeah, Tamara's going to have to do it. Oh, man. There's so much on that woman's plate. Good for her. She does a lot. She does so much for the community. That's the biggest thing.

Like we're still blocked by Tamara and two T's. Are we? We don't like her, but like we've always given her credit, especially on this show. Like, even though we don't care for her. Like,

she's always gotten the credit she deserves. But we got to check here with Gene the machine, 97 years young. That dude's still a stud. Just so with it. I love when Gene pops in. As far as like Shannon's name, I came up.

Which one of hers was your favorite? none of those i went with badora the snore that's what i came up with it's fucking it's just the shannonisms that happen every like stop stop like Shannon is only good tv when she actually just she's herself and she has a meltdown because that is who she is every time that we hear behind the scenes

that is who shannon is then she goes to her confessionals or she does things on screen and she falls over and does all these corky things that's all fake this thing's all fake like no the door that conquist the door no like no we're not doing any of these things be yourself how about that try on be in yourself and we'll see how that goes we know how

that goes it'll be good TV but everyone will hate her because if you just Google like what production and the behind the scenes people say about Shannon like there's never been somebody it's like oh she was a pleasure to work with even on Love Hotel JKB

went full throttle on Instagram stories at two in the morning. Was it professional? No. Do I think he was telling the truth? Absolutely. I have 100% on his side. And I don't even think he likes us very much. But I just remember looking at the end of that show like, when are we going to see this Shannon meltdown? Here, the meltdown was actually, that's probably the most real for like a long stretch that we've ever seen Shannon because she does have those episodes here and there. Then she kind of steps back, goes back to her weird quirky self, whatever she says. Love Hotel. She was so wrapped up in that one.

one dude, Earl the Pearl. Earl the Pearl. That she like actually let her guard fully down and was her crazy self. I'm like, all right. This is actually kind of compelling television. Why don't you do this on it? Oh, you can't do that on it. See, because you don't want to do that.

Correct. Yeah, exactly. Well, to get to Tamara and Gina and this was, look, I respect the, what do you call it? I respect that it's difficult to navigate, you know, being the step. mother and obviously we've heard that Travis's ex is a little difficult to deal with. I understand all of those things. And I'm not taking away from that in any way, shape, or form, even though I despise Gina. But I don't get it in this context because she's like, it's so hard to navigate, you know,

like overstepping and like, you know, she wanted me to go to the hospital with her. She's having appendicitis. Like, yeah, go to the hospital with her. Like, was she really, that sounded to me like she was like, oh, maybe. I won't take her to the hospital, just send her in an ambulance. Like, what are you talking about? Like, I just, in what world? And maybe this shows like, what a monster the ex is.

Maybe the ex would get pissed at her, accompanying her to the hospital to get an emergency appendectomy. But I couldn't put these two together because I was like, I get that you're navigating this difficult thing. But is this not an extenuating circumstance? Like, death is not, we can't overlook that one? Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking. And also I'm thinking her and Travis are probably in the best place that they've been since we started covering this show. So she doesn't want to ruffle feathers. And maybe the ex is kind of chilled out a little bit.

And this would be something. And she's just petrified to push her over the edge and get back to where she was with Travis a couple years ago, which was awful. And it was also awful to watch. So I can, I can actually say it was terrible. Yeah, it was fucking terrible to watch all of that because it was every episode. Way to check it. with the two of them. I never want to relive that. So I'd rather deal with just those

scenes that I can turn my brain off where they're talking about getting married because I don't care about if they get married or don't get married or if they do a courthouse wedding. It doesn't matter to me. This is a little more interesting because it's sort of into the psyche. I'm with you. I think from our third party perspective, it's like, what do you mean? Yes, you take them to the hospital?

You wanted to burst and then be like, I couldn't take her because the mom because her ex was going to, she's going to get me. That's what I was getting. Like, eventually you're going to say that on camera and be like, I didn't know if I could take her because maybe are the X is going to come after me. That's what I was expecting her to say, but she stopped a little bit short of that, thankfully,

because that would have been fucking hilarious, to be honest. But at the same time, it's like, okay, yeah, no, you could probably spin this a little differently and just say how difficult it is navigating being the stepmom and not really sure how you handle things. And, you know, this was one of those moments where your motherly instinct just kicked in and you took the kid to the hospital, then you reached out to her. And that's the end of that. That's all you have to say.

Instead, it's like, ah, I don't know. I don't want to overstep here. What would you do in this circle? Like, I don't know. Like, take her to the fucking hospital. That's what I would do. What a weird question. Oh, sorry.

You're going to have to take care of that yourself. I don't want to ruffle any feathers over here. Oh, that was so whatever. But here we go. Like, this is when we start to get into the Carmella and Gina's shit. And she's talking to Tamara about it, try to give her side of things. Again, as you said, and I agree with you,

there is a place to be questioning the way that Carmela is coming into the group. She's making a lot of noise with money, moving kind of weird. We can question that. Fine. This is why you can't have Gina being the one questioning it because if she starts to talk about this whole thing,

I'm like, all right, so you're just jealous as fuck about everything. You just want to be Carmela, and now Carmela is making nice with your bestie, and that's rubbing you the wrong way. Because when you say things like, you know,

it's just ad to meet someone, and they're like, oh, here's a Dior bag and something to masturbate with. Are we really going to act like vibrators are not a common gift, especially on these shows? It's a wacky gift. This is not that crazy. And you just sound like such a loser when you say it like that. It's like, oh, Jesus Christ, clutch my pearls.

Could you imagine a fucking vibrator? And the kid saw it. Like, okay, that's unfortunate. Sure. But that she didn't plan on the kid. It wasn't like, oh, open this in front. of your children. It was, here's a wacky gift. When she talks about, if some, if Tamara had taken the reins and been like, look, just questioning like, you know, the Dior bags are the expensive.

You're offering, Jen, $20,000. Like a lot of this, it's kind of fishy. But instead it's Gina doing it. I'm like, you are such a loser, dude. You're such a loser and you're jealous of Carmela. She's kicking your ass in real estate. It top to bottom, you literally are going to say later, like, I want to have all of that. That's all this is. All of it. All of this is just you being a loser and wanted to be Carmela. Like, come on. I think this is the most like mental work I've ever had to do for Gina because which when she's going through all of this obviously at its core at the surface, whatever you want to say,

it's so much jealousy. It is so much jealousy when she starts talking about dollars and she starts talking about real estate and what Carmela does. It's so rooted in jealousy. That's so hard to get past that. But she did make a couple of good points that at least made me. think like yeah, maybe you guys are on to something. Maybe she is buying her friends.

Maybe she is coming into a group. It is a little weird. And we do get the whole picture. We get a little bit more context at the end when we talk about how Carmela and Emily had already had a conversation and Carmelo went to someone else and said, I felt like, or I think she went to Heather. She was like, yeah, I feel like she was just coming at me. She asked me a million questions.

She was questioning me a lot. And I don't, but it's important to note that she did say, I don't think it was coming from a bad place just like caught me off guard. Yeah, yeah. But then she turned right. around and got her a $4,000 purse. And the vibrator thing I wish we just didn't talk about. Because again, it's not a big deal.

Let's just fucking leave it there. But the more that we talk about it, the more it invalidates everything that Gina was saying. And in the same breath, she was making a point where at least we can ask questions. It's not like a very good point. It's not a, oh, we got you, Carmela. This is what you're doing. It was just a, ah, you might be on the right track. I mean, we're when we're watching from over here, we're already kind of there.

Like, yeah, go ask her those questions. Gina hasn't even really thought about that yet because she's so caught up in the dollars of it all that she's like, I want what she has. I wish I could put a friend. Yeah, now we're going to have to have an indoor scene at some point where Gene and Emily are sitting down and Jean is crying and she's like, you know, you're my best friend. But I just, I don't think I could ever afford to give you it to your purse. Is that okay?

Like, that's what we're going to get. And it's going to be fucking hilarious. But we shouldn't have to watch that. That shouldn't be a scene that we see on Housewives, which is why we say get the pores out of Housewife. But anyway, classism. But either way, it's just, you can see the makings of a good argument somewhere in there. I just have no faith. There's no trust in Gina that she's going to be able to land that play, especially by the end of the episode.

I think we're done with it unless Carmela does something else and buys something extravagant for somebody else. Then it's like, whoa, who are you trying to buy now or something along those lines? But for now, I think we're going to be done with it. It's just like, God, Gina, you're just a bad housewife. Because any somewhat average housewife would be able to have that conversation, walk through it and say, you know what? She's moving kind of weird. Who walks into a friend group and buys an expensive purse for somebody they just met? Who goes to someone else who's a failed businesswoman in Jen and says, hey, let me take you under my wing and give you 20 grand.

If you just pick out some tiles for me. It's weird. It is very weird. But she's not making sense. Gina's not getting there because she can't get past the fact that she thinks that Emily is flocking over to Carmela's side. They're never going to be friends again because she's not rich enough for Emily, I guess, is probably where I'm getting with us. And then there's nothing else. Like, that's my big problem with this. I shouldn't be here doing your work for you. You should be

able to do that on screen and then we can talk about it. Bingo, but that's not going to happen. But anyway, let's get to the party at the end. And it's Vicki's event and Tamara invited Carmela to it. Vicki did not. But that's the chit chat before everybody arrived. is what's your issue with Carmela blah blah blah carmela gets there this is where i really just get like not even irritated it's just kind of like an eye roll because one thing that OC does worse than anybody is just finding issues with new housewives because like i don't want to have to make it a thing every time like something little happens like carmella brought vodka okay like why is that now?

It could be worse. It could be worse. We could be having this Sutton conversation. As soon as she brought out that vodka, I was waiting for someone to say, maybe she has a drinking problem. We don't need that. We've got enough of that in Housewives.

We've actually kind of spaced ourselves away from all of that. We do not need any more of that. But everyone gets there and, you know, we're just kind of going through our list of grievances currently that Debbie Dowder thing and Emily explains her side of things. I was expecting vivacious and vibrant. Like I missed that Dickie.

She's like, oh, well, that's coming soon. It's like, okay, cool. Let's move on from this immediately. And we do, which made me happy. But that's when the Gina and Heather dinner comes up where Heather voiced her dismay with Emily. Because she starts out. I'm confused. Went from BFFs to Tamer's house.

You telling me to be quiet and saying, like, why are you always talking? And she's like, I didn't say that. I said, can I talk because you've been talking all night? I'm like, are we really going to sit here and have a. a semantics argument back and forth. Then Tamara comes over the top. It's like, well, didn't you say shut the fuck up? No.

No. Well, that was the sentiment. That was my favorite part. Like, what the fuck, dude? At least you try to spice it up. It's like, this is so stupid. Why are we arguing about that? Tabra from left field.

Didn't you say shut the fuck up, you stupid bitch? No, I didn't say that. But that would be a lot cooler if I did. It would be a lot more fun if I did. Yeah. And then Emily's like, I don't need you to jump in here. and all of Gina's insecurities come spilling out. Whoa,

don't you say you don't need me. She didn't. She said she didn't need you in this conversation. It just really hurts, but she doubles down. It hurts my feelings when you say you don't need me. Dude, stop because you're going to go from this into Carmela

and paint this whole picture of like single white female, like psycho that's obsessed with Emily. And God forbid, Emily makes a new friend. Granted, 1,000% doing this to get under your skin, Gina. So you actually have a right to feel like this because it is intentional, but it does make you look like a loser. So I pick aside, but I do, do not, will not, and won't sit here and listen to a semantics argument. Nothing grinds my gear like a semantics argument.

No, honestly, all of this can be boiled down to a semantics argument, even when we start bringing the Carmelo thing in talking, not necessarily. her buying things, but her job title. Like that's semantics as well. Who gives the fuck? I don't really care. When Vicki gets involved, it's like, all right, maybe Vicki just needed an explanation. We can actually move forward. This is where I started to formulate the idea that a Emily Gina fight would be fucking hilarious because I don't care who wins.

It doesn't matter to me. And the two of them, the sound clips we're going to get from them going after each other and talking about each other. They know so much about each other that we'll actually get some real life footage. we could actually get an insight into the weird things that are going on between Emily and Shane in their family or between Gina and Travis and their family that we don't talk about on the show

because they don't bring it to the show because they only just get involved in other people's businesses and then bring in like one little storyline or you know in Emily's case she just throws her kid under the bus and starts talking about that. So it's like I maybe it'll be a little something different. This is kind of the same territory that we were just talking about with Heather which you know obviously Heather is more of you know way up here

We're shooting for the stars if we want to get Heather actually involved in this show, maybe go after her. It's not going to work. But it's something different at least. We can talk about something different. These two go after each other would be fucking hilarious because no one's got to talk in the fight. There's not one person online that's going to be like, whoa, I'm team Gina. No, you're not. You've never been, never will be.

It doesn't matter. This could actually, could actually just be a, I don't care who wins. Let's just hope for some entertainment and let's see who gets involved in all of this. So yeah, the semantics argument, I'm happy it was over. quick. Tamara, we have to thank for that one for stopping everything. But when we get into the Carmella thing, this is where I hope

that we are with Vicky, where once she's kind of gets it when Gina's talking about it, I just think it's kind of weird that you did this. And you got a vibrator. And Carmela shows that she got seven others. And she's like, yeah, I mean, my kids found the other seven that I got.

And they're like, why did you get seven of them? That was enough for like maybe a little icebreaker. And that kind of brought everybody into it because now everybody's cracking jokes and having a good time. That might be what we need. Somebody like Carmela, who is, and that was dead serious because we watched that scene with her and her kids. She's like, I don't know which one to get. I've got eight of them in the card at one time.

What am I supposed to do? That's funny. If she continues to do that, that's going to be enough to kind of dispel this weird, shitty aura that's going around in this group where we don't talk about those things. If we can do that, you can bring other people in. Shannon Bador is going to start laughing at things. Mickey's going to get uncomfortable, but we'll laugh at that. That's really what we need.

is somebody to do that who doesn't understand the rules of the show. No, I agree. And I think that that's the one thing this show is seriously lacking is that person. So if Carmela can bring that to the table without being ostracized, that's the hard part. She has to be able to do it from a place where she doesn't then get put on the outside because they all clutch their pearls. Like, oh, we don't talk about in Orange County, which save it. But like the Gina part of it, everybody there's calling it out for what it is. Like, oh, you're just jealous.

Like, this is all jealousy. She's like, she has said at this dinner table eight times best friend referring to Emily. Even Emily knows what's going on. But the difference is Tamara and everyone else, Shannon, I actually appreciated Shannon calling things out this whole dinner. Or she's like, oh, well, didn't you also say, oh, didn't you say, I like that she was adding fuel to the fire? Yeah. I hated. I hated.

Don't put me in a box, baby. Nope. Don't need that. that was way too way to practice only only tamer like tamer and vicky are basically doing the same shit right now although tamry actually did not make a box joke this episode the entire episode she made she made it through that's good for her vicky is doing the um the debby downer thing she's going to continue to do that for another eight episodes it might get funny to me again at some point it will it's a roller coaster ride we'll go back down at some point tamer is allowed to make the box comment

because that's what tamer does and it's still funny and clearly there's unresolved issues there Gina, you can't make that joke. No. That you're not part of that one. You're on the outside looking in. Don't you dare. Yeah, no. Bad look.

Bad look. And like, I mean, we've talked about this pretty much throughout the entire episode. It's just, again, going after Carmelah, going after the newbie, picking some things out that again makes some sense. But what happens, especially with this crew, especially with like Gina and Emily, because they don't get their ducks in a row, because they don't have foresight into. how the conversations will go after they start talking some shit. They always get just floored. They never can stand up. And Gina looks like a jealous loser in this scene.

And then loses because Shannon throws out there, well, you said that she didn't actually have a real estate license. Now you're going to get buried because Carmela apparently does very well in real estate. Now you're backpedaling because she started to realize at some point during this conversation that she was looking really stupid. So then she does what she does, tries to clean it up. I, look, I want, I want to be that. I like, I like what you do.

It's like, you fucking can't keep to the one side of the street. Like, as soon as shit gets rocky, you jump ship and you try to clean it up. And then you make the joke of like, well, give me your number. So next time I will call you because you tried to use that before as I don't even have your number as though she's not worthy to be in your phone. Yeah, that's, that's what we were going to do too is, uh, I don't have your number. So I had to talk shit on you to someone else. I couldn't bring it to your attention, which again, doesn't make any sense. Let me show you the other side of it, though, how bad it could have gone.

Because this is the exercise we have to do with OC. And we've seen it in a different show very recently. What if all of a sudden Carmela goes, what do you mean? Were you looking up my real estate license to see if I have, were you looking me up online? That's an invasion of privacy. I thought for a second, there was a half a second there where I'm like, oh, fuck, don't do it. Do not do that. Do not fall for that date because that will last forever.

We didn't do it. We cleared. There are certain gaps here that we are clearing. Maybe it's going unnoticed by a lot of people. Maybe it's going unnoticed by literally every person watching this show except for me. But I am so tuned in to how bad this show could be. And it's actually helping. I would actually tell everybody else if you're finding this really boring.

One, that's good because it's not bad. It's just boring. Two, just keep an eye on the pitfalls that we usually have. And when we clear it, just give yourself a little thumbs up. That's what I do. I sit on the couch and I go, hmm, good job.

Okay. Not to that. I'm not telling them good job. No, it's to yourself. Paying attention. Yeah. Yeah,

we'll see. I'll try to watch it through that lens. But let's get to some questions. I have a feeling I know what they're going to say. But let's jump in anyway. First one up here from T-Gal now. Will Vicky drop the Debbie down or crap? It's so annoying.

I'm really into her being back, though. She's not going to drop it for a while. She won't. we have to hope that it gets to a point where it's funny again because it's repeated so much and here's the thing with all of the shit that's going on with Emily, Heather and now the Debbie Downer stuff like we might be on a different path where at least Heather and Emily are kind of going to be at the helm in terms of like who's getting the most shit. So look at it that way because if Vicki keeps going and eventually Emily's going to say well

you are kind of you're being a Debbie Downer by saying Debbie Downer all the time. It's going to set Vicky off and then she'll go after Emily. So let's just hope for that. Okay. DM Jazzwall. Why are these women so boring? We are arguing about a handbag. Gina is so fake and because she's jealous,

she can't afford to gift her best friend more than a hoodie and a candle. And then the third part of that is Carmela trying too hard, offering Jenna's job. Everything you said is true. Everything you said is very true. And that's the mold that we're trying to break is, I think even multiple people on the cast even said, like, why are we arguing about a handbag? This is insane. So there is some self-awareness somewhere in there.

We just need to try to get it to the forefront. But yeah, the call out of Chena only being able to afford a hoodie and a candle is fucking hilarious. That is true. Well done. Let's see. Oh, I like this. It's a statement. But is it going.

Blacksmith, Trev. I'm calling it now. Carmela in five episodes is already better than Gina and Emily's entire tenure on the show. I agree. I agree with that. Yeah. She definitely has something going on that's somewhat interesting. And she's only been here for a short amount of time.

But there's clearly so much more. That's the other thing. Every time that she opens her mouth and she starts talking about her life, there's something else that pops up. Yes, she's getting ahead of it. Yes, she's hoping, you know, maybe if I talk about it with Emily, I won't have to talk about it with the rest of the group. But everything she says is pretty interesting.

I mean, we could do multiple episodes on just her. getting that charge in Ohio. I mean, that would be interesting because it's something different of we don't know her. From Elliott from Orlando, do you think, do you guys think that Emily seems more restrained almost beaten down this season? No, because she hasn't really taken like any sort of a licking from anybody. Like she, she always somehow scurped out of things. Yeah, she's in a place right now where she thinks that she's got the upper hand on everybody.

So you're seeing her like smirk and kind of move around in the background trying to sit up things that will inevitably fail. But that's what I'm getting. I guess we will see. This is a good one because this encapsulates Vicki Gunnvelson. Catherine Rebecca Jewelry asks, why can I not stand Vicky but also love her?

What's her story? First time watching O.C. That is Vicki. She's going to bother the shit out of you, but you're going to also enjoy it. That's just kind of her M.O. She is the hardest working woman in America. That's all I'll say.

Otherwise, you have to go back and watch from the beginning. I can't really summarize her life from Jenna Fitz Carmela is the most interesting on this cast and why are they making me

like Tamara? What the fuck? That is where you kind of end up on this show. Eventually when you watch it enough even though you hate it you do start to appreciate that Tamara's the only one

who's actually doing her job. Yep. Sylvia backs the why are you guys not recapping next Jed NYC when it's the best show airing? We are. We just decided that we'd

give ourselves a little summer these last couple of weeks and we took a little breather. That's all. And there's a lot of vacations of whatnot going on. Yeah. So we're going to, uh, we're actually recapping that right after we're done this. Mm-hmm. Any, any other ones? Let's do one more.

Um, uh, um, um, um, um, oh, from Walt Prado. Can you see Vicki coming back for a season 21 or was she just brought back for the inaugural 20? Um, yeah. I think she's going to stay. I think there's no reason to not let her stay. If they're going to bring her back, they're not just going to bring her back for that. They would have just brought her back for Ultimate Girl's Trip.

Like, that's what I would imagine. I think that they know deep down that this show needed some changes, and they were kind of just pressing the button and hoping that Vicki was going to make those fixes. But again, right now it's not terrible. So maybe it's working and maybe it'll kind of continue in that direction. But if it does suck at the end of the season again,

they're going to have to retool. And that just means getting rid of Gina and Emily and just bringing it to other people. Bingo, but time will tell. If there's one thing we can count on when it comes to California Housewife shows, they're not going to fix anything. And we're going to see the same thing next year.

Here's the hoping. You know? Yeah. That's all I got. You got anything else? Nope. Nope. That's our show. Brabros are out of here. There are vampires out there.

They walk among you, shoulder to shoulder in the dark. Heading to work, heading home, going to the bar. It's a life just like anyone else's, and I have grown used to it, to the darkness, to the moon, to the taste of blood on my tongue. But vampires are dying out. We are a fading kind, and I am the first one created in so long, and that is a dangerous thing to be. Those who came before me, elders of all stripes, they do not want to see our kind gone, and they will do anything to keep their power. And for myself and for grace who created me, that is a sword that hangs above our heads. And the worst person of all carries our secret, and he will use it however he sees fit.

Who do you look to when things are at their darkest? From the creators of Parkdale Haunt comes Woodbine, a podcast about monsters, dreams, and changes, those you want and those you never saw coming. Season two arise September 24th, distributed by Realm. For eight years, we've been asking, the same question over and over again. How did this happen? My name's Mandy. And I'm Melissa, and we're the host of Moms and Mysteries, the True Crime Podcast with over 55 million downloads. We're two Florida moms who are obsessed

with mysteries. Each week we do deep dives into fascinating true crime stories. We cover everything from infamous cases like Casey Anthony to the bizarre and complex crimes right here in our home state, like the shocking murder of FSU professor Dan Markell. We bring you the facts, but with warmth, and width, you'd only get from two friends who have been hooked on mysteries since childhood. Join us for new episodes of Moms and Mysteries every Tuesday and Thursday. Listen to Moms and Mysteries on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast.