Bros & Shows - Jenn's Photo and a Trip to NOLA (RHOC Full Recap)

Episode Date: August 12, 2025

What's up Bros? The ladies of RHOC are headed to NOLA for a cast trip. In this episode, the picture of Jenn from the past is brought up. Watching some of the cast defend Tamra instead of just side with Jenn is bizarre. Overall the vibes in New Orleans are pretty good. Tamra seems like she's down in the dumps which also feels like she is setting up an excuse for later... Gretchen, Katie and Jenn are finished with the Tamra double standards. Even Gina looks like she might be getting to the end of her rope. Emily and Heather stand firm that Tamra is growing. We get a cliffhanger 24 hours later and it looks like all hell breaks loose. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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You used your living room as a sauna. I swear I feel better today because of it. Well, how about that for a cold opening? Let's talk about it. More like a hot opening. Hey-oh. Brows and shows, I got to have me my bros and shows. Bros and shows. Bros and shows.

I got to have me my bros and shows. Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Brows and Shows. I'm your co-host. Steele Russell, joined as always by the one and only. Nola Goots. What's up, dude? Excited to get to Nola.

I feel like, I don't know. I feel like this show is getting, like this episode in particular was a little bit better. It was moving in the right direction, mostly because we didn't really mention any bloggers. So, you know, maybe there's some correlation there. I don't know. Just throwing it out there. Well, here's the good news. You ready for this?

What's the good news? Zines from next week, we are going to talk about bloggers again. So don't worry. It's going to come back around. I know we need to, like, that's the thing is it's necessary for us to move forward as much as we're like, just fucking, please, dead it. Like, I do not want to do it anymore. I know it's necessary that we do need to have a big blow up as a group where we all talk about it

and maybe we can get through it. I know Katie's not really going to be able to get through that unscathed, which, you know, not that she deserves it, but she doesn't deserve to get through that unscathed. She does need to take a licking afterwards, here we go. Let's just move forward. That's, I think I'm on the same page. I'm cool with it breaking down. I don't want the whole Nola chip to be about bloggers.

Yeah. We do need that. We need that moment where. as you said, it's the dinner last year when they were on the trip to London, right? And everything broke down with Tamara and Shannon. You need that moment. So we need this to try to get back to neutral, whatever that neutrality looks like. To me, that looks like two separate groups that get along with each other, but not if you intermingle.

And I'm fine with that. I think that this is a show where there's going to be some clear-cut divides only because you have irreconcilable differences. But we need to get to a point where, you know, for example, this episode, when they're talking about sex videos and like, have you recorded yourself having sex? They're joking around. And then someone throws out there, well, Katie definitely does because she records that. You know what I mean? I agree. I agree to an extent for sure.

I think generally speaking, I fully agree with it. When it comes to Shannon making that little quip, I'm fine with it. I'm completely fine with it because that's fine and that's fine. funny and it's it's at least applicable to what we're doing and talking about it was a good dig i think that now katy going back to a confessional and saying we need to move on as much as i want to be like all right katy you need to be able to like handle a joke especially because you did that there's no denying that you did that so at least be able to handle that i do think that obviously for a confessional a couple of weeks later i think it's more like uh i don't think

we ever move on from this i think that katy is now weeks removed from this she's not just talking about that one comment that Shannon made, she's talking about how Shannon is just not, she's just throwing up a stone wall pretty much. And that's the one thing. I get it. You know, if we do say this sometimes, usually when we're tired of hearing things, if you're not going to move on, don't move on. You know, don't be friends, but like don't keep talking about it. If you're just going to just move on and do whatever, like, that's kind of what Heather did last year. She got to a point where she's like, I'm not going to keep talking about the paparazzi thing. It's fucking insane that we're still talking about this. I'm just not going to talk to Katie. And I'm okay with

that because it's the lesser of two evils i need shannon to also do that because shannon you can't sit there and continue to make comments and jokes about this if you are going to do what you did last week and say katie's dead to me she's more evil than tamara and uh and alexis combined i'm not doing any of this anymore then don't do it you know what i mean yeah if you talk about it it gives us a time that we do need to discuss it and it's like all right enough of this but i don't know i felt like this episode it had a different tone obviously you know those travel episodes typically have a different tone. But I think that it was a good in-between episode where there wasn't a lot that happened. There's not a ton that we needed to really discuss deeply, but it was a good balance.

Like, all right, we're moving on. We've got some little workings here and there of people talking about things that they haven't talked in the past, mostly with Gina talking about the things with Jen and how Tamara showed the picture to Heather and all of those things. We're seeing different pieces be played, but they haven't been played yet. We're seeing like, okay, we might be able to move to this direction. We might be able to have it out with people that we haven't had it out with before. And hopefully we'd move on to something new or at least get something that's entertaining. So I'm okay with it.

I am too. I didn't have an issue. I was more alluding to like you said with the paparazzi last year. We got to a point where it's like, oh my God. I don't think we're there yet as far as Shannon. She's had a solid season so far. Sure. I didn't.

I wasn't like, oh, I just I can see that happening for the rest of the season where it's just like, okay, can we get past this or just agree to not talk about it. I'm just worried that with the recurring blogger theme, that we're going to get bogged down with that stuff. And I would like to move forward to new issues. I would like people to argue about different things. So, well, I mean, Tamara's on the vial piles. So I guess that's fine, right?

She's allowed to go sit down with Nick Vile. When? I think it drops this week. I saw pictures. Yeah, it's definitely a odd. Oh, yeah, I saw a clue that you mentioned that. But the other stuff I agree with. I thought this was a better episode.

We actually, I think we needed an episode that was just kind of light and airy of just no serious shit to just get us back on track. And hopefully we can shift the narrative of this season, get us to a place where the episodes are enjoyable with drama. We're not talking about stupid shit that none of us care about. So step in the right direction, Rosie, nice job. That's all I got. You got anything else? Nope. Just kidding.

Come on, guys, just kidding. Let's get into it. And you know that Gina's been jumping at the bit to drop that clean Latifah joke. She's been saving that one for a very long time. Ah, the Equalizer? The Equalizer? Queen Latifah, the Equalizer? Yeah, I know her.

That's still one of my favorite bits. I know. It's so good. But we start out with Gina and Emily, and Gina's having a lot. housewarming party so everyone's headed over there to check out her new digs which we've gone over this you know it's great to see that she's made something of herself she's on the right track as you so aptly pointed out it's like we're celebrating you know striving for the middle class which is great in real life okay it's great in real life we watch these shows to see

elevators in closets like shimea from Atlanta we watch these shows to see chateau dubrow or watch them buy a house for $16 million, dump $4 million into it, and then try to sell it without ever even live there. That's what I want to see. It's nice. Exactly what we want to see. Although I will say it is kind of also funny whenever Gina's hosting parties to watch people like Heather walk into the house.

Like, holy shit, I'm claustrophobic. Even Shannon walks in. She's like, it's nice. And like the inflection point on her words, it goes up at the end. She's like, it's nice. like do you want to go uh go on the tour no i can see i can see it yeah i know what's here okay yeah let's go out back but the main topic that's getting brought up but i'm glad that this was a topic of discussion throughout the episode was these photos of jen from before and i don't want

to call them fatty photos i think that was crazy that they just called them fatty photos the whole time oh jen started owning it so that's always a good sign when the picture or whatever is in question is about that person, if they can turn it into their own thing. And if she's going to refer to them as fatty photos, I think that's already a win for Jen right there. Yeah, you're right. I just watching the mental gymnastics of some of these ladies, like Emily, she goes to confessional, she's like, well, Tamara can post them about me.

Like, I don't care. It's like, what he's talking about? Like, that's not the same thing. That's not what we're talking about here. Just because you're cool with it doesn't mean that the vast majority of people in the world would be okay with it. Yeah. I don't know. I never really like that stance because it's just it's two different people. And also we know that she's not sharing those photos like Emily would share photos of herself when she says that she posts them on Instagram herself. You're posting them yourself because you're proud of your journey, which you should be. And that's awesome. Tamara's showing Heather because she wants to shame Jen. That's not why she's showing it. She's not sitting there showing Heather pictures of Jen from before saying look how far she's come. She's saying she used to be fat, and now she wants to look like me.

And then she got in the gym and did all these things that stole my hair extensions and put them in her own head. Those are the things that she's doing. She's not saying, look how great Jen looks now. I'm really proud of her. Even though Heather's initial response is good for her. That's awesome. Like, no, that's not what Tamara's doing.

Dude, watching this scene play out and then they're on the back porch talking about it and Heather's trying to rationalize why this whole thing's okay. She's like, you know, if you look at it from Tamara, She was going to say, if you look at it from Tamas perspective, you can see. Jen called her out, yeah. Which I'm glad Jen continues to call people out. She's really having a solid showing this year. It's just there's no way to look at that.

What? Because she got in shape and she lost a bunch of weight. We're going to equate that to her wanting to be somebody else. Maybe she just wanted to get in shape. Maybe this was her choice. By the way, she looked great in the photo. She likes how she looks now, like good for Jen. But why are we sitting there acting like these photos,

brought out was not nefarious and Heather why are you still sitting outside like you know guys it's not that big of a deal like it's actually makes a lot of sense when you look at it from one's perspective I was going to say one's who's who's the one who's the one person I love that I love that excuse it's so fucking funny but I again I love that Jen's clocking she seems to be clocking Heather a lot And I love that we also get the context and we understand. Jen just jumps right into it. Look, I was a single mom trying to raise my sons, trying to get through a divorce, trying to do all of these things.

I was living in a new place, didn't really know what to do, struggling to meet Ennsby, all of these things that she's saying. Like, yeah, I appreciate the context because now you're painting it in a way of, once I was able to endure all of that, then I could work on myself. It shows how good of a mother she is. She was putting her kids first. she was putting all of these things in her new life first before she got to a point where she's working on herself. So good for her. I just like that she was able to one clock Heather immediately

because that's exactly what Heather was going to say. She's going to say, if you look at it from Tamara's perspective, no. I mean, actually, you know what? No. Let's look at it from Tamara's perspective. How are we going to spin this? How exactly was Heather a planning on spitting this? Because I do want to see what the end of that sentence was supposed to be. What are you going to say about Tamara talking about Jen's old pictures. What do we want to say here? Was she going to say she's saying, look how far you've come? No, she wasn't. We just said this. That's not at all why she showed you that photo. She showed you that photo because she's got this really weird narrative that Jen just wants to look like Tamara. And we talked about this last week. Every OC mother and housewife and all these people

out there that are getting plastic surgery and getting dentures and doing all of these things and getting their hair extensions, you could always say they just want to look like Tamara because Tamara is the model for an O.C. housewife. She's got the blonde hair. She's got the boobs. She's got the flat tummy. She's got all these things that she did for years and years on this show. So yeah, what you're going to say that about some woman walking down the street? Like, oh, there's a blonde woman that kind of looks like Tamara. She saw me and she took a picture to her, to her plastic surgeon. She took a picture into the dentist to get her, uh, I keep calling them ventures. I just love calling adventures it's just too fun for me i think that's not calling them dentures yeah but if you want to

break it down actually who took a picture of who to their plastic surgeon to say this is what i want to look like tamar took a picture of jen to get a tummy tuck that's the other way so it doesn't even make any sense and listening to heather again just go in these circles to be like you know it wasn't presented that way it's like yes it was she pulled out a picture of jen trying to say look how bad she looked back that that's a horrible thing to do so heather does what heather does and goes yeah well what about katy what about you and kate no boo that's a bad it was awful that was such a bad and that's really the thing that they're going to keep doing and it's not obviously it's not jen's fault she's friends with katy because the rest of the women in the group for whatever reason

are flocking to tamra katy has a problem with tamer right now jen can't try to cozy up to Shannon if she wanted to, but something tells me that Shannon and Jen really wouldn't get along. I can't imagine. I would love to be a fly on the wall. Actually, no, I wouldn't. I would really fly out of that room, actually. If I were to sit there and listen to the two of them, try to have a conversation. There's no level grounds there. There's nothing that they can talk about. And Shannon would be completely comfortable sitting in silence in that room. So

never mind. I take that back. But yeah, she's not going to cozy up to Shannon, who also has a problem with Tamara. And I think she's still kind of feeling out the Gretchen situation because yeah we know it and then honestly we're still trying to feel it out as an audience because we don't really know she hasn't come in that hard but I'm waiting for her to just start laying out the bomb because every other word out of her mouth is about Tamara so we do know that it's coming at some point so I think if I'm Jen maybe I kind of see how that situation plays out I don't want to be thrown into the middle of that and be associated with Gretchen right away give Tamara more ammo so yeah of course she's got a cozy up to

Katie. But of course, now every time that she says something about Tamara, anyone else in the group is going to be like, well, you're the company that you keep. You're hanging out with Katie. Like, Katie's talking to bloggers. She's not doing that much, honestly. It's annoying. It's stupid. She shouldn't have done it. She's getting shit for it. And she should get shit for it, of course. But it's not that crazy compared to the things that Tamara's done over the year. So come on. 100% agree. Couldn't say it any better. Meanwhile, inside of the house, Tamara is talking about the dinner she just had with Jen. And we get the classic Tamara. been, you know, she immediately started calling me names.

Nope. That didn't happen. You started being gross, but whatever. And she's like, and I wasn't doing it. I'm not going to do it tonight. Then the single white female thing comes up. And Gina's doing more than we've seen her do when it comes to Tammer. She is like saying some things.

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It's like, well, like who? Well, like Gretchen, she points across the table. And Gretchen's like, well, timeout. She was looking for somebody to console her because of what you did. Like, that was so crazy last year. And I have experience with you and you being an ask. So she came to me to say, how do I deal with Tamara? If you look at Jen's behavior overall, look at her conversations with the other ladies in

the group, look at her conversations with Ryan, her confessionals. She is trying so damn hard to find some way to move on with Tamara. She really is. She said to Ryan, she can be as awful as she wants. But if she's honest, I will put that aside and move on. So this doesn't track. It doesn't make any sense. And I'm glad that Gina's bringing up some things.

I don't think she's ever going to be brave enough to, like, put her foot down. She's not. Yeah, but I think that something struck a chord in there. And I'm not really sure what it was. I don't know if it was the fat-shaming photos or whatever it may have been. Something is causing Gina to at least talk about it. She's at least verbalizing to other people. Now, I do have a problem with her.

And hopefully she does get there. But when she's sitting down with Tamara, we get a side-by-side later talking about that situation, She's not putting Tamara on blast. She's not adding to Tamer's plate and trying to fill it up with anything else that she's been doing or anything that she feels at least about the situation. But that's where I have a problem. And I'm always going to put Gina and Emily together. Emily spent what half of last year and all of the reunion talking about how she felt so slighted because Heather gave her some a different size for the pants compared to what everybody else was wearing. Now you have an opportunity to stand up for somebody else when you felt like nobody was standing up for you last year.

year because nobody really knew that that was going on to begin with, but you felt like you were out on an island when Heather did that to you. And you felt like she didn't understand and you really had to explain that to her at the reunion. You have an opportunity to show this. This is not apples and oranges. This is very similar. It's actually worse what Tamara did compared to what Heather did. This is a different opportunity for you to just vocalize. Hey, this is what I was talking about last year. These women just don't understand it. Instead, you're just staying back and you're talking about how positive you are and how comfortable you are, posting pictures of yourself. It's like, what are you talking about? We just spent seven episodes last

year saying how uncomfortable you were. You can't have it both ways. So now you've got an opportunity to ingratiate yourself with the fans, with the rest of the cast. Hey, no, we're going to put our foot down at this. No, I'm not going to say anything. I'm just going to make a joke about it and just move on. Gina seems to be kind of going the other way. So I'm interested to see where she ends up with all of this. I am too. I just don't know if it's ever going to get to a point because. Nah, Gina's not a heavy hitter. It never really matters. No. At least I can feel better about it. Agreed. It's just the person that's saying about Tamara, it's like, oh, you say you want to grow, you say that you've changed with therapy, this, that, the other. But then you're showing these photos. At the same time, Gina is one of two people that have said, I see you trying, Tamara. I see that you're changing. Her and Heather, and I guess Emily's in there, too, saying other people just aren't seeing the change. It's like because us as an audience at home, see stuff like this, her bring up these photos. And we know it's not well. intentioned and it's like well yeah if you think that you're she's better why is she doing this still

why is she being the same person that we've seen time in and time out and it's always up to the other person it's like Emily's like well did you apologize for the Facebook comment to Gretchen it's like why should she like that's a public forum she didn't go like above and beyond was it shady yeah but she was responding to her daughter dragging her and she's like yeah she is manipulative so no and Emily's like well it would show you being the bigger person it's like everybody always has to be the bigger person. We never hold Tamara accountable, but we're going to hold Katie accountable all season for this.

When is Tamara ever the bigger person? When is she ever? And this is kind of what's going on. And I don't know if the three women, I'm going to leave Katie out of this just because she hasn't known Tamara that long. But you've got Jen, Shannon, and Gretchen who have known Tamara for a very long time. All of them are seemingly willing to move on in a way as long as Tamara takes accountability. And Jen has said it a couple of times in the last.

couple episodes. Gretchen finally started saying it this week when she's in the middle of this conversation with Gina. And Shannon kind of feels the same way. I feel like she would move in that direction as well. That's what we want. And I'm happy that people are actually calling it out and saying that in a group setting versus just going to their confessional and talking about it and complaining about it because we've been saying it for years. We like Tamara for the show. She's great. But it does get annoying when she does the same thing over and over and over again because it just starts to bog down the show and it allows the cast to sit in this like mess of their own making,

but they never move on. We never get clear of it because we spend season after season doing this where Tamara creates a mess. They all get stuck in it. Nobody's willing to speak up to Tamara. Nobody's willing to ever talk about it amongst themselves because you've got people like Gina and Emily and Heather that always make excuses for Tamara.

And then it ruins the season. So at least now we've got three people who are capable and are all sitting there saying, if she takes accountability and just take some responsibility for the things that she's done or said, we can try to move forward with her. We would all be willing. I know there's a lot of OC fans out there

that just enjoy watching Tamara make a mess and they just think that it's great TV. I don't. Me in particular, I really don't. I think it ruins every season because we do get to that point where we can never move on because Tamra's not taking responsibility and also because people aren't going after Tamara. If we get one of the two in a good, strong fashion,

this could be a win of a season. that's all we need i'm not asking for a whole lot here just stand up for yourselves damn it and they get the nola reveal and that whole thing goes south a little bit because tamer gets upset you know the teddy shit is horrible you know we've we've heard about updates throughout the season and everything so yeah i understand she's going through it as far as is she playing it up you know gretchen seems to think that she's a playing victim i don't know it's making it all about There is a level, and I get it. There's a line in there where, yeah, of course we understand that you're sad about this.

Of course, this is your best friend in the world, and there's things that are going to affect you. But it's, and this isn't just as a Tamer hater. I'm trying my best to remove myself from being a hater to watch this practically and say, is she playing it up too much so that she can get some sort of a pass in, you know, future situations? I think she is. I think it would be crazy to think that she wouldn't, just based off of a past. behavior. Anytime that something comes up that doesn't really involve her. Like, yes, it's sad. She'll do things like that all the time where she'll start talking about how, you know,

she feels broken because her kids don't want anything to do with her. It's like that you did that to yourself. Like, are we supposed to now feel bad for you? And this is going to give you a pass in a completely unrelated situation? No, I don't think so. So it's, it's not at that point yet. I don't want to jump the gun on it. But I do think that there's going to be situations in the future where she gets called out about something, whether it's Jan or Shannon or whoever, and then she's going to use that as some sort of a shield. And it's just going to be rough. I think so too. That's, you know, my gut feeling, but I do empathize. I know it's a shitty situation. It's just, like you said, past behaviors give us certain expectations of how something's going to play out. That's not our

fault. But I will say this. Okay, I'll give a little happy thing for Tamara because you get the seen with Tamara and Sophia. Sophia is trying to grow a music career. She got a thousand monthly listeners. Congratulations. I saw a clip of the Vile Files interview, and it was Sophia. And she had a lot of really nice things to say about her mom. Their relationship on camera seems genuine.

They seem to like each other. They seem, so like not going to knock that. It seems like she's at least a good mother to Sophia. She needs to stop bringing up Sydney and trying to paint her as the bad guy in the situation. But I will say that. Sophia, like I said, had a lot of nice things to say, and this seemed like a nice scene. So I'll give one kadoos there. Can I be a hater for a second?

I tried to remove my hating from before, but I don't want to right now. It's not funny. I genuinely believe that Sophia doesn't give a shit about her mom. She's only doing this so that she can use Rosie, the show. To launch her career. launch her music career. I think she's enduring Tamara as a mom and all the shit that comes along with it

just so she can get a free plug for her music. That's evil. That's evil. You, you monster. I told you. I was trying to look at things practically. We gave her cadoos for, you know, going through all of the stuff that she's going through with Teddy. But I do need to chime back in, you know. You know, how it works.

Hey, you know, two goods in a bad or something. I can't do it all. Two roses and a thorn. I don't know. but let's move on to Jen and Ryan. And they're doing their their workout routine, you know, pre-reading, pre-redding workout routine. Pre-wedding. Dude, didn't Ryan just get a fucking, like, ACL repaired?

What is he doing? Oh, yeah. I didn't even think about that. That's a good point. And he's doing all these things, like with his legs. Like, what? What are we? Is he just like, is he just made of something different?

Is this dude just a monster? He just built different. That boy built different. Damn, right. Yeah, we're still in dangerous, I like Ryan a lot, territory. I know, we got to, I'm a little more neutral. You are definitely leaning. I can't, dude, I slip a little bit more every episode.

I'll say this, he's given us no reason to really hate him this season. No, really not, honestly. Interactions with the kids, like they've all been great. Yeah, no, he could have spent, and I kind of saw, I do think that he probably watched past seasons of OC in the off season. He could have spent the entire time Just harping on Tamara Every scene that we got Which would have gotten old after a little while

Even though we believe that she deserves it When he's talking about like how tough it is Being, you know Getting married to Jen Being around the kids all the time And having to deal with the X all the time I get it And I think that it's nice that he was sharing that

And I think it was just a nice moment Because I don't doubt that these two actually love each other I think that they spend a lot of time on screen together And I think it's all genuine Yeah, they genuinely Yeah, they genuinely seem like best friends. And I think they're really close. And I think that he's standing up for her kids.

I mean, we watched it last week when we were like, what the fuck is going on? Why is the 18-year-old co-signing on a student loan for the 21-year-old? That makes no sense to me. Why isn't the X stepping in? Ryan's obviously not going to step in. He's getting investigated still. So, you know, there's not a whole lot you can do with that. His funds are still frozen.

But he's still, like, pointing out the normal things where it's like, why is Will not doing this? I don't understand it. he's leaving his kids out to drive financially. That's not what you're supposed to be doing if you want to be in their lives. And it sounds like the dude's a wacko. I mean, he just blocks Jen because he had some sort of confrontation with Ryan. Like, what are we doing here?

I mean, he's just calling you out on paying your fucking child support, your court-ordered child support, pay the car insurance, is congratulations. What are we going to do with that? When they give you the breakdown, and I understand Jen's hesitancy of Ryan getting involved

because of the backlash. And that sucks because you have to worry about both sides of it. But when you get the breakdown, it's pretty fucking nuts. I guess she went on, um, Jeff Lewis, Jeff Lewis and they broke down all of the stuff she's owed. It was a lump sum of $200,000 and that's from the sale of their home. So that should be there. There's no reason that 200K shouldn't be there if you sold the house unless you spent it

already. Yep. On top of that, it's a combined total. total of $6,000 a month for alimony and child support, not paid there either. So now Ryan has to pay an attorney to try to get to the bottom of this whole thing. And all he wants to do is have a sit down with Will and be like, what the fuck's going on? And like, look, I actually, at that juncture, right, I think that there's a level, like, there are levels to these things.

When we watch the valley. This isn't Aaron. Yeah, this isn't Aaron overstepping and telling Jesse how to raise his four-year-old daughter. These are mostly adults for the children that we're talking about. And it's a lot of different things. And it's fucking with Jen's life. So at some point, it seems like they're at their wit's ends. And nothing Jen is doing is working. So yeah, if I'm Brian, I understand. Yeah, it's a step in mentality. I'm around these kids all the time. I'm a second parent. You know, I'm not their dad, but I'm a parent to these kids at this point. I'm going to step in because it's

ruining my life too. Yeah, they're all living with me. I'm taking care of all of your kids. I'm watching them on weekends. You're supposed to have them. So at that juncture, I think that he has a say. Now, obviously, it's nuanced because of the reaction that Will might have, which sucks. But again, I'm like, I'm looking at Ryan. I'm like, yeah, you kind of shouldn't show. You know what? That comes down to Jen, too.

And we've seen Jen is, Jen is pretty apprehensive to really get into things. She doesn't, we're watching her stand up for herself now against Tamara. But if we go back and look at things in the past, she's always been very meek, very quiet about things she kind of just lets people do whatever she's going to do but i genuinely believe her and obviously it all comes down to how she feels and if she feels like the lesser of two evils here is ryan being able to just voice his opinion and maybe go after will a little bit obviously it's not that extreme but he's able to just voice his opinion and say dude what the fuck are you doing and she understands the ramifications are he's probably going to block me i'm probably not going to be able to

communicate with him for a little while until he needs something else but i feel like she's okay with it she's like all right like we've gotten to this point so i'm going to let him go and going to let him get it off his chest because it's going to make him feel better. At least he was able to say something and say how he feels and state the obvious and then move on. So I'm going to defer to her. And as long as she doesn't have any issues with it, why should I? I agree. I agree.

But Shannon and Gina meet up and they're talking about Shannon's dating life, which, you know, she's got a bench, but apparently none of them want to be intimate. I don't know if that's true. I think Adam, from what I remember on the Love Hotel, I know that he dipped out. dipped out on that trying to smooch. Phil just seems like we could see him

on a couple of shows this year. I could see him popping up on Potom. I can hang it out with Giselle at some point. But yeah, Adam, I feel like there's some prospects there.

And I do want to know who else she's talking about because she keeps referring to other people. Are we going to get more drop-ins from other people from that show? Dude, what if Ralph comes in. Ah, Ralph.

Oh, I'm out on Ralph. What a dream boat. Yeah, but, you know, he's a, he's a hot piece of ass

yeah until he started growling in Ashley's ear then I'm like get this guy off the yeah I didn't like that at all he did it a lot he was growling a lot yeah yeah I don't like it anymore started growling oh yeah then they just all started growling at each other it broke down they were in that hotel

for too long but they bring up the fatty photo as they're referring to it and Shannon makes a good point if somebody could you imagine if somebody did this to Tamara, it would be the end of the world.

It would never, ever fucking end. And Gina, she's the one that chimes in here and goes, you know, you're claiming that you're grown, but then you do this stuff here and you're talking about therapy,

but I haven't seen the change. It's like, you're the one that said you do. So which side is it, Gina? Or are we seeing the blinders finally come off a little bit? Is this actually a shift

in who, Gina is. No, but what do you think? No, yeah, no. No, let me let me preface this by saying, absolutely not. But just for the sake of having a conversation about it, I will, I will buy in when she actually says something to Tamara. Because like I said before, she's having these conversations. And if it was anybody else, if it was any other show, any other situation, I'd be like, ooh, okay, maybe a little turn here. I didn't see this coming. This could be good. I can't wait for her to bring it up we've seen jina talk about this before and she does flip flop we haven't seen her for like two years now because last year she just kind of took it easy she's been a yes man

for a while but i feel like if we get a little bit more from that i just don't think that she's a heavy enough hitter i don't think that anything she says to tamer's really going to matter and i also think that jina is so afraid of being on the outs with some of these women that she won't really broach the subject and she's going to get in trouble just for talking about it because shannon and he'll bring it up. And then all of a sudden, Tamara will throw her under the bus. And there we go. And then Gina's back on the else.

So I don't know. I have no faith that she's going to do it, but I will be happily surprised if she proves Miro. Nah, it's not going to happen because of the reason you just said. She's just terrified to not be cool with the cool kids. And then Emily will flip on her too, and then she'll lose all of her friends. How dare you say that about Tamara?

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Please play responsibly. Let's get to Nola. We're going down to Nolans, and half the group's already there. They're going on the Creole Queen, which is a big boat while the other half is flying down there because they all had to fly first class, blah, blah, blah. I loved watching them try to figure out what river they were on, the Mississippi. And it's interesting to listen to all of the Tamara jokes being made. She's not there and we're taking some soft digs at her pretty much the entire time. You know, you got Emily chiming in, you got Gina chiming in, nothing too dark, but there are some shots being taken, which I thought was interesting, especially because they're in the presence of Gretchen, who we know hates Tamara.

So I don't know. I really don't want to get my hopes up that we're seeing an actual dynamic shift but it's nice to hear I will say that I think if they can get Heather to flip which I don't know

I'm still holding on I don't think I really don't think Heather is terrified of anybody I just don't think she cares enough to really get involved in shit like that because that's pretty much what we've seen that's her M.O. in the past and she even says that I think about Katie a little bit later

she's like I don't fucking care I'm not really worried about what the hell she's going to do. But I do think if we can get her to flip, and I'm really holding on onto this, because it's just a weird throwaway comment that she made to Jen about how she I'm sorry, about Katie, now she wanted her to get a win. Now, I don't know. It could be absolutely nothing. It could be completely innocuous, but it seems like there's something there. So if push comes to shove and there's enough of the women that are pointing things out that Tamara's doing or pointing out how she really hasn't changed, even though she's telling everybody that she's changed

and she seems like a better person, maybe Heather could step in and say something. And I think that would devastate Tamara. I think that if Heather was the one who said it, then she wouldn't really know how to do it. She'd probably leave, and then that's probably what actually ends up happening. I was about to say this probably is what exactly happens in that dinner coming up.

Yeah, I think it's in that dinner, and then probably right after that is when she leaves. And I love all the people that are like, she just decided to leave because we've had comments. We've got people DMing us that are like, don't forget, I know you guys are really excited for Tamara to call it quits, but she does it because of what Teddy's going through. It's like, no, Tamara does it because of what she's going through.

Tamara does it because people are going after her and she can't handle it. That's why she leaves. So that's what we're going to end up seeing. I just don't know how it's going to shake out, but I think it's going to be pretty entertaining. Yeah, and I do wish that we were privy to that horseback ride with Jen and Emily, at least to get like the rundown of what they were talking about because I guess Shannon, Shannon said, don't roll on me is something that she said to Emily, I think.

Was it her to Emily? I think it was her to Emily. But the sentiment being, don't reconcile with Tamara. No, it's to Jen. She didn't want Jen to reconcile with Tamara because she doesn't like Tamara. Now, again, this to me is Emily like, come on, we all got to get along and be cool with Tamara. And that drives me crazy because it's like, okay, fine.

Why? Let's play this game. If that's what you need, Emily, is for everyone to be cool with Tamara. camera. What about Katie? Now I will play the what about game. What about Katie? Can we move on from that? Because nothing she did was anywhere close to what you did by bringing up her custody battle. That was much, much dirtier. But we don't talk about that. Did you see that recently? No. Gina, Gina was on Watch what happens live and she added Heather to be the one that actually dug up all the research on Katie and her her life before this. Uh, here we go. Another

now Heather, now Heather is in the Instagram comments. Oh, I did see. I never research on people. that's not my thing I don't go back and digging people's lives I don't really care that much which I kind of agree to an extent I just don't know why Gina would burn that bridge especially when watch happens live maybe she didn't feel comfortable going after her friend uh Gina I'm sorry her friend Emily I don't know but it's kind of weird that she outed Heather is the one to bring all that up I could see Heather hearing it and then repeating it I yeah just to get her back for the paparazzi comment because yeah those are not two comparable things. Not even

remotely, but she's so stuck on the paparazzi thing that is this another scenario, or maybe we're all just fooled. Maybe we're getting Dubrov. Maybe she does care more and she's really good at acting like she doesn't care. And we're all thrown off. I don't know.

That's a possibility. I don't know, but the other crew arrives and you get like a little nice moment between Jen and Tamara. I'm glad she says this in a confessional. She's like, you know, it's nice sometimes. And I'm like, oh, there's my friend. But then something inside me tells me to wait for the other shoe to drop.

And I'm like, good, okay, good. So you're not just like brushing things off. That's good to hear. And they all get to the hotel. And I just have to point this out. Watching Shannon try to do just stuff. Yeah. She seems to struggle with whatever it might be, whether it's that workout class with

the bed sheet hanging from the ceiling, opening up a suitcase, just little stuff. And look, it's very entertaining. It's just, it doesn't seem like it matters what the activity or whatever she's doing is. There's always a little hint of struggle what comes along. Yeah, I get a lot of joy out of watching that. I don't know why. It's just a weird thing that I wish that there was a camera that would just follow Shannon around because watching her just do like the most monotonous things ever, but a struggle to do them would be very funny.

I don't think I would ever be able to get enough of that. Yeah, I agree with you. And then we get a juxtapose scene and you got Jen and Katie talking and you got Gina and Tamara. On the Jen and Katie side, it's all about the photos again and, you know, how unfair it is that she's out here saying sorry and acting like she's absolved of her sins or trying to and going to therapy. And at the same time, she's showing people photos. It's just too contradictory. On the flip side, you've got Tamara who is just victim now. She's 100% victim.

I'm nervous to go out. My social anxiety meters all the way up again. Someone's going to come after me. And at some point, you want to hope that she realizes why that's happening, maybe have some self-reflection. That's never going to happen. But it sets the table immediately. And Gina's the perfect person to do it to because she's going to sit there and go,

but it's setting the table that no matter what happens, because she set the tone in the room, they're going to come after me. I'm really nervous. Now she can be like, see, no matter what, she can say see i told you i knew this was going to happen that's really all she wants to do and she started talking about her social anxiety being high while she was going into jena's house referring to the dinner that she had with gin that didn't have to be an issue that could have been

a very civil normal discussion where you kind of just walk through things try to repair a friendship if that's what you want to do or don't repair the friendship i don't really care what you do but sitting there you made it way more of a high pressure high tension situation because of the way that you responded to things, because the way that you were talking to Jen. So you really only have yourself to blame for all of that. Obviously, all the things before that that led up to that discussion at dinner was also your fault and maybe some of Jen's fault. But you could have squashed that and you could have been in a better place. So I'm not here to hear you complain and say, oh, God, my social anxiety is so high after that dinner. You did it

to yourself. And of course, all of these other things where people are going to comb after you, which we've never seen people come after you before but here we go you sense it you see the writing on the wall you feel like people are going to come after you handle it you're tam or judge you've been able to go through this before you do it to people so you should be able to handle this it's just Gretchen probably not even Shannon it's just Gretchen and Jen you can't handle that really I'm supposed to feel bad for you I'm supposed to feel bad for you because two people who you've handled very well in the past are coming after you right now no absolutely not you deserve this Yep, I don't feel bad at all.

We get the night out. They're going to Murials, and they get to sit at a ghost table. Yeah. I think we've had this convoy. Do you believe in ghosts? No, not really. Yeah, I don't not believe. I don't actively believe, but I also don't fuck with situations unless it's the ghost children in your basement.

Then I'll actively fuck with it. No, no, no. I wasn't going to bring them up. Yeah, you can't talk about it. I don't think they can hear well, maybe they can hear me through the microphone. No, but like I'm not like a lot of frequencies.

Yeah, sure. Yeah, that's what happens. Ectoplasm. Yeah. Echto cool. We already talked about that. Did this last week. No, yeah, I'm not going to sit here and play with a Ouija board.

That's for sure. No, we didn't remember. We, in Pocono. No chance. Both of us were like, fuck this. No, I'm not opening the door. But I don't believe in ghosts, but also I'm not opening that door. Yeah, just not.

worth taking the risk but have you ever had turtle soup no i was going to ask you if you've had turtle soup i have had turtle soup it's good is it is it good is it is it rubbery uh it's a little chew it's the best way to describe it was like clams yeah it is and like as long as it's cooked well it just tastes like you know some kind of seafood soup i do know it's a reptile but it's not terrible and especially if you're in nola like great i know it looked it looked awesome We're recapping everything and Ryan watching Jen's kids comes up and she gets more like the Will and Ryan of it all. And we find out that there was an interaction. And I guess because Will had to drop the kids off, meanwhile Will was supposed to have the kids this weekend, but dump them off on to Ryan.

Ryan took the opportunity to say, how can you do this? Pay your fucking child support. Now, I understand there's frustration involved. I, it's such a weird, like, nuanced topic. It's like, how do you broach the topic? I don't know if being antagonistic is the right approach, but I also can understand he's probably really frustrated. He's, I'm sure he's very frustrated.

And I'm also taking this, uh, this explanation from Jen with a great assault. Because I don't think it went that smoothly. I think she kind of just glossed over it. Like, yeah, he went out there and just said, how can you do this? Pay your child support, man. I don't see Ryan, think. Yeah, I don't see Ryan being that common. From what we understand of Will, I don't really see him responding that way.

But again, it does, and I think this is actually kind of nice because it at least opens Jen up to a larger discussion. Like, hey, this is what I'm going through. Now Gina can chime in. Now you get some sympathy from Heather across the table. So it does kind of paint it in a different way where people are now going to start looking at Jen like, oh, yeah, you're not just this deadbeat single mother who can't pay her rent. There's a lot more to you. There's a lot of things going on. And also, it paints Ryan in a different picture because everybody there was supporting Ryan.

They all said that they felt bad for him. They all said that it's good for him that he was able to step up and do that. He's not the parent. He's the parent that stepped up, right? So that's, uh, I think it's nice. I think we've come a long way. That's what I'm going to say. We've come a long way for Jen.

We've definitely come a long way for Ryan, or for Ryan, giant. Giant. Yeah, let's them together. We've come a long way with Ryan where the rest of the women in the group aren't talking about the fucking FBI anymore, which Tamara is seething. when everybody's sitting there talking about how good of a dad Ryan is she's like what are we fucking kidding me like just looking around the room waiting for somebody to say something bad so she can jump in there's nothing to say right now he's doing a good job from what we see so like

we go off evidence what we've seen of Ryan with the kids has been positive and hearing jen like still defend will a little bit because she she's and again it's a it's a tough situation but she's like you know he's paying their insurance when she says he's paying their student loans. I'm like, well, maybe, but Dawson might be paying the student loans, too, because he co-signed, which is just, I still can't believe that that's an actual thing. But not to mention, wait, also, if they're all still in school, the repayment on their student loans hasn't really started. So he's probably on the hook for paying the student loans. It doesn't mean he's actively paying it right now. Yeah.

With a 25% interest rate or something, God awful. Yeah, I don't know. Whatever, but it's going to be, I imagine we're going to get a lot of that this season, the breakdown, especially since all this does is tee up the conversation now, well, what happened during the interaction. So it's probably going to get worse, but dinner goes well, everyone's having fun. And before they even did the wacky camera angles and like the fade in, fade out, you knew that it was going to get bad because Gene is like, you know, I'm having fun, really having fun. I'm like, ah, there you, you went and did it. And it's like the camera gets blurry and it's like 24 hours later. And every single issue that we've experienced thus far on this season is coming up in New Orleans, which I think we need that.

Yeah, agree. It's like a little boiler room. Like everything is just finally just coming to a head. Now we can just get now I will say there's no way, what are there like five different issues that we need to talk about. There's no way that any any more than one or two get resolved. I'm sure a lot of them are still going to be out there. But this is the thing about shows like this.

If we just keep talking around issues and talking behind closed doors and having these one-on-ones where people who aren't involved or talking about something, we get bored. We need to see these things actually come to a head. So at least that happens. And New Orleans is a great place to do that because you can just do that and then you can go get a bin-yang, you know? Yeah, totally.

Just go duke it out on Bourbon Street and then get one of those like grenades. One of those things you've seen those. Like it's just like rubbing alcohol. oh shit you know what i'm talking about i know exactly what you're talking about yeah yeah i think that it's a chance to get this season on a different track and i think that's what we need because we can put a lot of this if we can put the blogger thing to bed at the very least and just move on from that topic i think that we have a chance to shift this season into being more entertaining because we both agree this was a much better episode so yeah let's get to

some questions. First one up here from Christy Hams. If you had to keep only one of them next season, who would you keep? Emily or Gina. Honestly, probably Gina. Right now,

probably, yeah, probably Gina. Emily irritates me so much, dude. I just, like, she's so hypocritical and just boring.

Like her and Seth or Shane? I always call him Seth. Shane? Shane, like you know the situation with luke is horrible and i i feel for them and you know they're trying to navigate it the best they can so hats off to them but because i'm not really invested in emily it's like what does she do what does she do for this show i have no idea i also i can't take those scenes in particular because i feel like she's just judging and saying the chain is wrong for how he's

handling things and like there's an argument to be made here that maybe you're handling it wrong Emily, maybe you should be more hands-on. I mean, Shane's sitting there saying, we've got to take it day by day. It seems like Emily is like, we would have, let's get this fixed right now. It's like, that's not going to work. And Shane's not wrong. So stop acting what he is. I think it's more of a, neither of them are wrong or right.

It's like, this is a difficult situation. And the doctors are going to give you a plan of attack. But I don't think it's good to go back and forth on who's right and wrong and who cares more. Just give it some time. Yep. It's okay. Stacey, Masiel's. Stacey Moss Seals

I hate to say this but I don't believe Tamara getting emotional over Teddy at events and that's what sucks because of who she's been is in a moment where I'm sure that she's going through it I'm sure she feels a lot but you still have to question her intentions

because of who she is and that sucks because Teddy is going through it and we're all thinking about her but we agree Stacey you're not alone nope not alone from RM Lays what do you think about Ryan this season? I'm kind of starting to like them.

See? The ties are turning. The tides are turning. From A. Mosey 15. Wouldn't I ever seen it coming. From A. Mosey 15.

Did you see Emily and watch what happens live? She discussed the amount of Shannon meltdowns she saw. And that's why when you go back to the Katie thing, I don't think it's that bad. That's what I said. It's not good that she recorded, obviously, because there's no real answer for that. that's why I said Katie should have just owned it and been like Shannon you fucking melt down every goddamn day I go in here I'm expecting to just have some peace and quiet get on the phone got to talk to investors whatever it was even though she changed that story like four times and then you're having a meltdown so I recorded it get over it stop having meltdowns like I would have loved that and I would have respected that so much more than whatever it was that Katie did to try to backtrack out of that but yeah I mean every single cast member that has been on OC with Shannon who will be on OC with Shannon they can go on

and watch what happens live and talk about all the shannon meltdowns and he can openly talk about it but now we of course have to just go after katie because katy recorded it to send it to her husband and say this is what i'm dealing with like i don't get it i don't either different uh different standards for different people it's stupid bet driscoll 22 why are these women getting glam to go to genus housewarming because they're rich and that's what we want to see yeah they have to get glam to go everywhere and that's fine. Yeah. Those are the things that we like.

Frivolous spending. And, do, do, do, do. Oh, we'll do one more here from Car Millionaire. Did you also, L.O.L. and Gina said, Tamara is not an overly emotional person.

Yes. Yes, I did. That's the type of shit that, like, Gina will say, or Emily will say, or whoever will say. They'll go back and forth and they'll just point things out that are so obvious about Tamara.

But then they'll make a comment and say, who are you talking about? And this is one of them. Correct. I don't see anymore. A lot of this stuff is repeating. Yeah. I think that's, I think that's just about it. That'll do it.

You know, I think that'll do. That'll do. Yeah, I think that'll do. But, hey, we see a way forward with this show. And that's all we've been looking for. We've been struggling through the first five episodes. And that's the thing. We're not that far in yet.

So there is a chance. No, we're only five episodes in. There's, so you're saying there's a chance. There's a chance. There's a chance that things could go really well. And there's a chance that things can be absolutely terrible. And I'm okay with that.

I'm okay with being there at least. But yeah, anyways, you got anything else? Nope, all good here. Well, that's our show, bro. He's got to go. Let's do the ad, yeah. Yep. And we'll get back to the rest of our show in just a minute.

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and head up through notorious Pinkerton agents and gunmen like Tom Horn. Every episode features narrative writing and cinematic music, and there are hundreds of episodes available to binge. I'm Chris Wimmer. Find Legends of the Old West, wherever you're listening now. Goodbye. Summer movies, Hello Fall. I'm Anthony Devaney. I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the ultimate movie podcast,

and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Salome playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos' Bougonia. Dwayne Johnson's coming for that Oscar in The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuis' return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about, too.

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