Bros & Shows - Jesse Flops at Jax's Last Reunion (Part 1 of 2)

Episode Date: July 30, 2025

What's up Bros? We had to split this bad boy up into 2 parts to make sure we covered it all. In part 1 of the reunion, Jesse and Michelle take center stage. We get a little more insight into how things operate behind the scenes and Jesse comes off horribly. Michelle may not be the most likable character, but make no mistake, she is in the right. Brittany and Jax get into their divorce a little bit but we learn even more about some of the abuse that was going on. The rose bush had to have been the last nail in the coffin and its disappointing that Andy didnt address it more. Doute and Nia share more their pregnancy journeys and as we know, both had healthy, happy babies (congrats). This was a solid start to a 3 part reunion that has more than enough to discuss! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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and I like this episode I thought the valley got off to a nice start and I'm actually very curious to see where this reunion goes. There was some bumps in the road this season as we know but looking at it now those bumps might lead to really good reunion content. I was thinking the same thing.

It's sort of like usually we don't have a lot of content so we're like, why are these three parts? Why are these two parts? This one seems like something that should be three parts because we've been talking about it so much even though obviously it got dark and scary downright wrong for a few episodes there it's still a lot of content to go over and it seems like there's a bit of a structure to this reunion where we're getting we're getting some

things out of the way early they're not just doing the we're going to hook you and get you in here there's really a lot to talk about so it actually makes sense to show shows i got to have me my Bros and Shows. Brows and Shows. Brows and Shows. I got to have me my Bros and Shows. Good morning, everybody.

And welcome back to another episode of Proz and Shows. I'm your co-host, Steele Russell, joined as always by the one and only Reunion Magouter. What's up, dude? Feel pretty good. Went to the Kesha concert last night. A bit tired, but, you know, it's worth it. It was a great time.

Was Kyle Richards there? Not that I saw. It was hot. It's hell, though. Jesus, dude. Outdoor concert when it's like 96, 7 p.m. No thanks. That was down the shore all weekend.

We were down for a few days, which is lovely. And it was a little cooler down there. But walking out this morning, I took Poppy to Wawa. This has to be the hottest summer, just consistently hot that we've ever had. Yeah. It's outrageous. We haven't had that little break where it's like, oh, we get like three days of like 70s or a low wait it's just 95 we got one day one day of like 85 and it felt like it was 60 degrees out yeah

that's how bad it's been well friday weather pod welcome to the weather bros we're actually launching a new app just us giving the weather no we're here to talk about the valley i thought you were going to go i'll keep going we're going what did you think i was going to say i thought you're going to say that yeah more about the weather Hell yeah. Yeah, but before we get to that, there's a new low pressure system moving in. No, this was a good reunion episode. And like you said, there's a lot of content from this season, like a ton.

I don't even know if we're going to be able to cover all of it. So I hope that what they do is lock on to the big things. I think that's the route they're taking because of the little shit we chiseled away at the beginning. Just so we can focus on some of the main issues, obviously Jackson, Brittany, Jesse and Michelle, Danny, Janet, and Jason. in that whole thing. So those are like my biggest interests and those honestly could be one episode each. I'm glad they, it makes sense to lump the divorces together with Jackson, Brittany and Michelle.

I think they did a really good job actually because at first they kind of get into showing like replays of things that happened in season one. And it's because they didn't have a reunion after season one. This is their first reunion. So I was worried that we were going to talk about a bunch of stuff that happened last. year because they didn't do that and like that's of their own doing but i think they did a really good job and the team kind of tied everything together and made it more relevant and like you said lumping the divorces together the broken relationships that happened while you know one of them

pretty much happened in the off season the other one we had to watch horribly uh play out this year we do have to cover it obviously so let's just put them out there we'll see what happens and with this crew it's good because everybody gets involved they are so intrusive and so just like jumping at every opportunity to start talking that it works because now we get a little bit of something from everybody yeah and i think that why it works so well i will say and i'm not going to give him a whole lot of credit but jack's saying at the end like because like it's real i put it all out there which his is obviously played up but i will give the cast credit they are played up they are playing i do believe bigger versions of themselves a little bit i

I think they're cognizant on cameras, but I happen with every reality show, though. And it needs to, right? There needs to be a level of showmanship to it. That's not a knock. It's more to say the people that are born for it are like jacks where their lives are just insane, but they're terrible people. So they don't have to play it up for the camera or they do and they just get worse. Everybody else, it's like, all right, if you're a little normal, you do have to play things up.

So I think some of the cast kind of falls into that, you know, with probably like Danny, Zach to an extent he's eccentric as hell but I think he probably plays it up a little bit everybody else they've been around it and then you've got obviously people like jesse and jacks that are just insane but it worked well for the show for a little while until you know for jack's instance it doesn't right and I think that what they do well because I'm not even saying that's a negative it's just part of being on reality TV is playing a caricature of yourself all of the shit seems to be genuine authentic like actually what they're feeling they're all actually friends. They all really are that intrusive on each other's lives. So you're getting

that aspect, which is why this show is so good. And like we said, when we hit that little bump in the road in the middle, it's still a captivating show. It's just we were watching things that we probably shouldn't have been privy to. But let's jump in. And we get a nice little divorce montage of everybody that's getting divorced right now. You get a really sad moment. And it's not funny. Michelle and Aaron moved in with each other. and it was going great. We know that they are now broken up, so that's kind of sad to leave it off with that.

On a sadder note. But they did, but Andy did it twice. He talks to Michelle about Aaron and he talks to Jacks about wearing Jacks's bar stuff. So both of those things, both have they broken up, if you will, within the last week. So it's just kind of funny that we went back to back with those. Yeah, just like a dark like oof, oof, double oof.

and I think the sadder thing, though, is that Zach's scrotox went unnoticed. Benji didn't even acknowledge the scrotox. So that's, you know, it's a bummer. But the last two things, Jasmine's engaged. We knew that was going to happen soon. And Janet is taking Adderall and doing Pilates.

So now we're all caught up. We could jump into the episode. Yeah, fucking ridiculous. But we start out with Doty. And I'm glad we give her flowers for being the voice of reason this season. and it does seem that crazy Kristen has retired. I think that there's still a little crazy Kristen in there somewhere, but I think that she-

Controls chaos now. Yes, controlled chaos, Kristen's a better way to put it. That's what we have now. And that is a much better recipe for good TV because you can just root for her the whole time. There's not the episode where you're like, oh, damn it, there she is. You're like, go, Kristen, go. So, like, her and Luke were, they were phenomenal this year.

They did a great job. They knew what their role was. And I think they played it perfectly. They were easy to root for in a cast of people that are pretty shitty. They're incredibly shitty. And obviously, you know, timing works out really well for everything that they were going through for filming all of it, you know, through the fertility journey. And then her kind of getting closer to Nia because Nia's been through it while also getting

into it with Janet. And then obviously all the things happening with Jackson, Brittany. Kristen was in the middle of a lot of it. And I don't think it was forced. I don't think that she had to force her way into it. I don't think producers forced her into it because of all the mistakes. that they made last year by not having her in what three or four different episodes

there was a stretch like three or four where she was not in it and then there was a couple of where she was like the baby moon yeah you got like a one off where she was in two it made no sense her utilization last season was ridiculous it was it was a real return to form and I thought that it was really well done and like

you said I think that her and Luke both had such a great season with Luke really coming into his own being more comfortable sharing a lot of things watching their relationship you don't really have any questions like Some of the people, like obviously, we've got the protected couple over here with Danny and Nea because everybody's protecting them apparently. And then obviously everybody else is just a shit show. So you have questions about all the relationships.

I don't have a question about this relationship. It seems genuine. It seems so nice and authentic. And we're just so happy to see Kristen finally get to this point. I don't really think we spent enough time congratulating Kristen on getting pregnant, though. Thank you. We glossed there over. I think we talked more about Nia with four under four than we did about Kristen finally getting pregnant.

Like walk us through your journey. Take us from start to finish. We saw the fertility. Maybe they will get into it a little bit later. But I thought that like as far as how this all played out, we're watching a show in which she's breaking down because she's not getting pregnant. And we get to the reunion and she's full blown pregnant 33 weeks into it. Let's talk about it for a few minutes. No.

Why? No. no congrats let's move on i don't know i agree it was such a major storyline that we were all watching and even though we all knew that she was pregnant and that she gave birth recently you're still for some reason watching it like oh come on like you can do this and they did and then we spent like nia got more time on four under four than we did for doughty and her journey to get maybe and he still doesn't like christin i mean we've seen that for year after year with Vanderpump that he doesn't really like.

Well, it's because LVP doesn't really like Kristen. That's what it is. Maybe Andy still doesn't like her. I don't think she seems to have just kind of rewritten what her role is in the Bravoverse, which is very difficult to do. So again, congrats to her. Congrats to Luke. Congrats on the baby.

All that good stuff. And we start talking about Jackson, Brittany's divorce. I was like, whoa, we're jumping into this immediately. But we're touching on things in the beginning. We're touching on things at the beginning. I actually wanted to get into it immediately. Get this out of the way. this is going to be one of the it's going to take a while obviously and i think the way they're going to do it is

probably piece by piece i think you probably got the same sense that they're going to just kind of touch on it now touch on it a little bit later in this episode and then really go full bore probably episode two and then they're going to do the bullshit like where do you guys see yourself in five years are you going to be good go parents like no did you not hear the first and second episode or rather the first four hours of this reunion that you guys were filming they're not going to be good five years can we just skip that part they do it every time with all the divorce couples it's part of their reunion set up i get it but like for this couple in particular can we not do like the niceties because the way the jacks is talking when we get into this stuff he's doing that thing where he's kind of

deferring to her at one point even said that she's the victim he's not at the end of the episode so i know what he's going to do and i don't want to see it i just don't give a fuck he collected all of the comments that people said on brittney's behalf and memorized them to spit out throughout the reunion. That was his game plan. Dude, I can't wait for it. He outed himself, though. I was like, oh, boy, what an idiot.

But I guess Jackson, and I, this embodies what we can expect from Jacks, this reunion, this one little quick scene in the beginning. Brittany's like, well, you know, he called me the other day. And because Andy's like, where's the divorce? How are you guys doing with it? What part of the process are you on? And she's like, well, he called the other day. because he wasn't sure if he was getting kicked off the show, newsflash, you do.

And he said he's going to prolong the divorce. So just in case he needs alimony. Yeah. We get into this a lot with the California walls. Oh, yeah, the 50-50 state and all. Fucking don't get it. I just don't understand it. It's so ass backwards.

It's so stupid. The fact that Jacks is in a position where he can publicly say this at a reunion. and he probably won't get any sort of like negative effect. He probably will get alimony. He probably will get alimony, which is fucking insane for somebody who clearly wants nothing to do with their child. He's going to act like he does, but he clearly wants nothing to do with Cruz. So it's just ridiculous, the fact that we're doing this and the fact that he's bringing

it up right away. And you can tell on his face. He's like, yeah, it's exactly what I would do. And we saw him last episode. We saw the finale. He said that he was going to drag it out. Agreed. And like watching him try to.

spin it is just that's what you can 100% expect because he's like well that's not like all that was said or it's not how I said it and Brittany's like yeah it was just admit to he's like well I guess like we'll just admit to it to move on is pretty much what he's trying to push out there yeah that's that's going to be every interaction that we have this episode and it was for the rest of this one and it's going to be the same throughout the reunion it's a good little microcosm he's he took a conscious effort to be that guy on in his mind he's like i'm the guy that just fallen on the grenade i want everybody else to be good and i want people to look at me and say wow he's really changed that is in his head him changing he thinks that he'll come across as a guy who's softer

who's more in touch with his emotions the things that he's done to his ex all of those things just by doing something like this he thinks that people are going to view it as wow look at jacks he's so much so much different he's changed so much he's really working on himself like no this is just another fucking jack's ploy and it's so easy to see through at this point i agree but let's talk about jesse and michel they took the uh and if you guys can hear my baby's talking in the other room she's she's on uh what she's saying fuck jacks yeah she's saying fuck jacks no uh she's just she's really chatty these days it's really funny so she's in the other room just making noise if you hear that that's what that is but with mx platinum 400 dollars in annual credits for travel and dining

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Jesse and Michelle, they took, I would say they were the main focus of this episode with Jackson, Brittany sprinkled in, because I think this is the right way to do it. Get them out of the way entirely because they're going to continue to butt heads. I think what this episode does, and I think it's very important because Jesse is charming. Jesse is funny. Jesse has a lot of fans. I think this highlights the fact that Jesse's also a piece of shit. And we need to remember that as they're moving through this divorce.

It's very easy to like Jesse more than Michelle because of how they come off. Right. But what Michelle's been through, and I think we get like a glimpse into it, I think if she was better at relaying her emotions and feelings, she would have a lot more support because I believe she deserves the support. Yeah, and you're talking about support from the fans, right? Yes. The cast, okay. The fans, yeah.

So I think, I think the big difference that I saw today is, you know, obviously you're in a confined space with the cast. She didn't really have a lot of support from the cast. And she was very early on in this season. She was kind of all over the place. She was a bit manic with the whole situation. And, you know, who could blame her, honestly, after we find out what she's going through, especially with her mom, and obviously the divorce and all the things that Jesse's doing

and who knows what the fuck Aaron is doing at home with his honey. so there's a lot going on so in the beginning of the season she didn't have that cast support but it was good to see during the reunion at least in this episode everybody's kind of talking on her behalf because we've seen this happen before we've seen the one-on-one scenes with jesse and michel where he does do that he is manipulative he does kind of push her into a corner and wait for a reaction and then holds that against her he tried to do it in real time here his this was a fucking terrible episode for jesse this really just brutal you could see right through the cracks and all the bullshit that he was doing. Everything that he tried to do all season was just right

out the window immediately because he was really vindictive. He was really going against Michelle in a very public setting in front of everybody so they can now see how you operate and they now have no question about how these divorce proceedings where you're representing yourself are going. Sorry. It's fucking insane. But yeah, it was just mostly it was just good to see at least the other women on the cast kind of just chiming in it and speaking on behalf of Michelle because she was getting to that point again like how is no one seeing this this is insane this is absolutely wild and you can see other people are like well all right jesse let's fucking back off buddy exactly because you could poke holes and everything he's saying like he doesn't even seem to

believe himself when he's trying to talk through it it just a lot of it doesn't make sense and we'll get further into that let's get doty's fertility journey we'll get into that real quick this is when they touch on that you know watching her this whole season was what a roller coaster i think it was easier to watch because we know it has a happy ending yeah but i probably speak for many of us as we were watching it it's like you forget that she gets pregnant and like eventually has a baby so you're like oh man wait no it's good it's gonna be good the golden egg comes through yeah you're right it's gonna be good but those scenes were still sad you know they were so sad to go through that like yes at the end of the road it's very joyous and very beautiful but watching her have to go through

all of that is still sad so i feel you Yeah, 100%, but it was, you know, nice to hear her wrap up the journey. They started doing more hormones and then IUI eventually led to helping them conceive. They've had a beautiful baby girl. Everything's happy. Even Janet, thank God, she said this. I was actually concerned because she's made comments throughout the season of like, oh, we shouldn't let her procreate and things like that.

Even Janet says that she's going to be a great mom. I'm like, okay, great. And they said off on a good. They finally got to a good. good place, I guess. I guess it's going to fall apart. I think it's fine. It's going to fall apart by the end, but I always love reunion setups like that, where

the two who are butting heads the most end up apologizing to each other. And it seems heartfelt and it seems nice and coming from a good place. But you know it's going to fall apart in some way, shape, or form towards the end of the reunion. Yeah, without a doubt. And then we get to Danny and Nia, four under four. It's been a good pregnancy. And, you know, obviously she's been very open about her battle with postpartum depression

after their twins and it was very, very strong of her to share that whole journey as we've talked about in the past, but she's hopeful that that it won't happen this time around because the twins, I think, added a big factor to that whole thing, but the big thing you take from this, as we've always talked about, Danny's super supportive. Nia loves Danny. Danny loves Nia. They're such a normal, normal couple. And if this, if this reunion goes where I think it's going to go, it's just going to. It's just going to reiterate the point they need to get the fuck off of this show for their own well-being because I have a feeling it's going to take that turn when Janet and Jason get to step up to the plate.

I'm hoping that that 18-minute commute that Danny was talking about from Santa Clarita turns closer to like an hour and a half and they realize, uh, this is such a far drive to the valley. We can't do this anymore. Or the camera people like the producers won't want to go out to their house that often. And it just kind of puts them in a place of, you guys kind of want to move on. Maybe go on to like an HGTV. You can call it. I guess it would be four,

four under five at that point. If you want to go ahead and do that next year. Is that the hell that works? I don't know. Now they're going to have another one then. Four under five doesn't flow. Five under five. Yeah.

Five under five. Yeah, they're going to have another one. They have five bedrooms. So why not? Throw another baby into the mix. Who know? Well,

well, no, because they need six bedrooms. Not that you can't put kids in the same room. I'm just saying if your logic, they sleep in one room. Each kid gets thrown. I meant,

yeah, I meant they can sleep in the same room together. No, I know, but I just, just clarifying. That's the important part, right? Thanks. You're welcome. Well, I meant was they have more space than what they were used to in the valley. But yeah, totally, totally.

Yeah, 100%. I agree with you. Where were we? We're still talking about the pregnancy. And I guess Danny's going to get snipped now. So he invites the dudes like, hey, who else wants to get a vasectomy? And of course, Jacks jumps up immediately. And Brittany takes a shot

And I hope she takes multiple Because she's had to take a lot of shit from him Yeah She deserves to I think that she should take shots Throughout the whole reunion And just kind of jab him The way that he's always jabbed her

And she takes one here Said that Jax needs one Or he's gonna have 20 baby mommas Which leads to us learning That Jax doesn't wear condoms And Yeah Least surprising news ever

By the way, I am not shocked at that Could have done without hearing it though You know Right? Yeah When I hear about his sexual exploits it makes me sad and then she kept referring to like down there and kind of like pointing at his dick like right at his crotch a few times yeah and she called it a dirty dick yeah i don't

you know we all know it i had a visceral reaction to hearing that i was like yeah at least he didn't you know go yeah there's still time i was gonna say at least he didn't go on to like describe his own his penis yeah i agree that would have been upsetting but he does go on to it's fine actually it looks great slightly to the left don't worry about it but he makes or she makes a comment you know I wouldn't touch that dirty dick with a 10 I think she said 10 inch pole she's a 10 inch pole which yeah maybe that's pretty telling maybe she she's close yeah now we're talking about it too maybe it gives credence to what jacks is talking about uh where she did want to have sex with him four months ago drunk at the aquarium and hooners yeah

that story got wild so fast i was like what yeah so we said four months ago at the aquarium and then she doesn't deny it she says i doubt that and he says well you were drunk it's like what's going on what were you guys up to where were you guys drunk at hooters oh okay yeah okay sure actually that actually checks out for uh brittany's been talking about date night for fucking 15 years now that is their date night they go to she worked at a hooters didn't she uh i think she worked at one yeah i think she did yeah yeah no sheena didn't i now for whatever reason i'm picturing sheena and like a hooters day i think it was a Halloween costume maybe but where the fuck was i going my mind my mind's like a hard left what

the fuck's going on trying to avoid my brain i was picturing sheena and a hooter shirt wait what my my mind immediately went to big daddy yeah saved 100% yeah so I was trying to avoid that I was trying to steer clear old saggy balls get her scrotox yeah maybe he had scrotox oh that does apparently they I don't know if that doesn't make any sense to me but jack he tries to go back at brittany and he's like not what you said four months ago and you're hooking up with that guy that bangs porn stars. It's like, dude. Yeah, that is wild thing for him to say.

What an idiot. You literally have been seen about town trouncing around with only fans models. And like, no shame here. We don't tell people what to do with their lives, but you can't throw that one out there and act like you're not doing the same fucking thing. That's stupid. It would have been, maybe it would have landed if he was a little self-deprecating about it.

Like, clearly you have a tight, Brittany hanging out with another guy who's banging porn stars. That would work. okay that would work that would have been a good move instead you just slam open this door to just like immediately attack you and then show the picture that's the picture so i wanted to put a picture up for uh questions today i couldn't find it and i wasn't oh no no that person i wanted to use the picture of jack's friends that they put up there with the huge knockers oh yeah the one that they quoted like yeah quote unquote jack's friend yeah yeah that's what that's the picture i wanted to use

but uh that was a fun one see her coming out of your house her being brittany if you're watching your ring camera and that woman leaves your house jacks is never allowed to say anything about who you're hooking up with as far as what they do for a living that doesn't make any fucking sense but that's jack's taylor in a nutshell anyway we check in with the dody and nia friendship we watch that sort of blossom this season we've watched nea somewhat i don't want to say mentor but she helped guide dody through this whole pregnancy journey the the threat of infertility emotional so it was really sweet to see and you saw them like genuinely connect and and seemed to really get along i would say their friendship was probably

the most genuine that we saw this year yeah and i think it still is because the two of them were on watch what happens live when they were pregnant right after they filmed this or right before they filmed this and you can tell just like how close they've gotten and it seems like they genuinely are close which is good i think for both of them honestly christin needing somebody that's kind of rooted to the ground if you will kind of normal normal and you need someone to pull her out of her shell exactly that so it's a good beneficial relationship for both them i agree 100% but a big storyline for her this season was her body image and wanting to feel comfortable in her own skin we saw go to that skeezy plastic surgeon

that said that her boobs were they're they're extreme this is extreme we saw the big the slick back hair that was slick back that wasn't pushed back yeah that was like we can agree on that huge yeah that guy's still a piece of shit um i i did weirdly have a different thought about that guy though when they were showing the scene maybe if you are going into a situation like that where you want like a consultation you do want somebody to be truthful and blunt and honest and not beat around the bush so maybe he's doing a good job and so like that's where i get conflicted because i do feel like he was very abrasive with it like oh there's there's okay there's all right and then there's extreme oh okay so like holy shit i'm okay you're you're teetering on holy shit like

we got to handle this it's like okay dude like back off a little bit be a little softer maybe some uh bedside manner would probably that's all i'm saying are you can translate like hey you're um like the this end of the spectrum with this whole thing yeah but hey nothing we can't fix it'll be piece of cake don't worry about just that that would have gone a long way yeah throw that in there at the end it's just like hey it's nothing we can't handle here at uh that shady slimy and co you know slimy boob jobs in co he just like fit the role

never visit diwana just meet by my office it's just south of the border meet there we'll knock this thing out but yeah it was uh nice to see him again i suppose but back to the main point you know watching her go through this journey it was it was good to seek danny as supportive as he was obviously there's a few times where he's like yeah you look great on missing the point but he did a nice job as he always does giving her support and those two are i'll say it one last

time they'll stop saying it they need to run very fast away from this group so that they can preserve their actual i am not excited for getting to that portion of the yeah i'm not either i'm not either it's like watching this witch hunt come to a close and they have a it's going to be so hard too because like again jasmine is completely valid in whatever she feels or whatever she was going to then have ramifications throughout the group where they then have the door open to go after Danny again because she's doing this in the reunion so I don't know I kind of want to see how it goes I don't want to make any like statements about it right now I don't either you know how they do that with with trailers it ends up being a lot

less worse than what you thought it was going to be so I think at the end of the day like the most important thing and if she wants if Jasmine feels the need to use this platform to reiterate her message that's 100% her right to do so and i agree with that i just think that if it comes down to it then she speaks her piece and at the end of that she's like but we're good we've moved on from it right nobody else should have a chance to speak on it i am too because the way they teed it up i'm like all right well we've seen this cliffhanger in the scenes from next week and it turns out to be like that's the lead in but it ends with but we're cool now my big thing is like I said if that wraps up if she's like we're good it is what it is we moved on you know what

you know what it probably is they're probably talking about the first apology that little clip that we kept getting the beginning of the season I agree not the not the following apology where he sat down with both Melissa and Jasmine and went through the whole thing and they were good after that I think that might be what they're referencing that's what I try to hook us in I'm hoping at least but like you said nobody else should be able to chime in and and we know what it's going to happen. If she does it, Danny's going to apologize again. He's going to be very heartfelt. Nea is going to get involved. That should be it. You know, if Melissa comes out, I don't know if Melissa is even going to come out, then it's the four of them. Nobody else should

get involved unless it's just speaking words of support when it comes to Jasmine. But Jason and Janet are going to tee it up and try to dive in on it to throw more stones at him for being a quote unquote alcoholic, which again, you guys don't get the speak on that. So like that part is gonna you know this is going to drive me up a fucking wall if that's the way it goes like you said let's not make any statements let's let it play out and we'll go from there and we started out with jesse and michel we really get into it like you said already this was extremely damning for his side of the street like he didn't have a leg to stand on he got mixed up in what he seemed to have said to her or what her story is his shit just doesn't align with any of it it doesn't

make a lot of sense in this beginning part michelle explains like jessie diminishes me he puts me down he did the bare minimum so finally i got to a point where i said i'm not dealing with this anymore it was like their anniversary i think and she was like yeah like put her foot down and said i'm not going to be unhappy for the rest of my life and i asked him for a divorce that i think is a glimpse not just into what their marriage was like that's how it is now and i think that jesse is very good at manipulating his his image on the screen i think he's very good at throwing jokes out there crying, laughing at certain moments, so people kind of lighten up. I would imagine behind closed doors dealing with him as a fucking nightmare.

Yeah, you kind of get a glimpse into that. And Jesse didn't say anything. He didn't have any follow up, really, to what Michelle was saying. He just kind of let her talk, which I was very surprised at. And I'm like, oh, maybe he's just allowing this. But when you look at it a little bit deeper, it just means that he's not disagreeing with anything that she said. Right.

He's just saying, like, yeah, no, I did that. I understand why she did that. Okay. now I'm going to answer my questions. It's like, oh, okay. Usually you kind of fight her on everything. So the idea that he didn't fight her on that was kind of telling. I agree.

And I think that confirms it. I think that's confirmation that, yeah, I did do that to her and probably still do that. But the big issue that I think all of us, the only issue we really care about is co-parenting and Isabella, like making sure she's good, making sure they're able to communicate. They're doing good as far as decisions go. but then he makes a statement that she weaponizes Isabella. This was fucking nuts. This was crazy, right?

And he's doing that thing again where he's taking responsibility, but he's also saying that she does. And it's like, I know what you're doing. You're trying to be that. And it kind of worked in the, I guess it was like the penultimate episode before the end of the season. When he sat down with her, I'm like,

okay, he's trying to get her to take responsibility for some of the things. And she does get to a point. And he gets to a point where he says, you know, we failed, our marriage failed. We failed our marriage.

We failed our relationship, whatever. That made a lot of sense. That resonated. But now when you're talking about this, this is wild. You don't get to say, one, don't cop to weaponizing your child. That was crazy. Don't tell your ex-wife that she's also weaponizing the child because now you're just saying you both do it and it's okay. Like, that's crazy to me.

Exactly. It was like this compromise that, well, she does it too. It's like neither of you should do it. And the example you use is horrible because the example that you're using. using you tried to keep her from seeing her dying grandmother because you wanted to hammer out some details before that happened you bring up an Italy trip I don't know how that correlates with it I don't know what the fuck that had to do with it at the end of the day even Nia's like well yeah like I would have done the same thing you the time that you had to take Isabella to go

see her dying grandmother was potentially a day up to a week like the days were numbered So it's not one of those where it's like, well, let's hammer out the details on how to discuss mortality with her. It's like, no, get that kid to see your grandmother before the grandmother passes away. I really thought the Italy trip was going to be more like Lisa and Larsa are in Milan while Lisa's dad is passing away. I thought that's what it was going to be. I thought he was going to be like, you wanted to go to Italy and then you come back for one day and you're like, Isabella has to go see your grandma. Like you went away while your mom, while your mom was passing away. Like, okay, maybe that's where he's going.

No, he was just talking. Look, the view, you know, from 5,000 feet, whatever you want to say, when you look down and you're like, that, that is kind of weird that she's going to Italy for two weeks and she's staying with her dad for a week and then going to a friends or her sisters or whatever. It was a strange setup. That is a little bizarre. But then when you get into dealing with Jesse, which I fully believe, Michelle, and I actually support her on this, the weaponizing a child is just a crazy sentence. So I'm not going to say it. but saying, hey, she's never going to go to Boston for Christmas ever again is probably something you have to do to Jesse to get him to understand what's going on.

Agreed. Absolutely agreed. Especially given the circumstance, like, that's where when Nia spoke up, I'm like, I agree with that. It's like, given the circumstance of this whole thing. Yeah, this was a myth. What else was she going to mess? A huge whiff.

Because what else is she supposed to do? Her mom could die that day. So, of course, like, let's speed this up. up dude and you have to threaten him i don't think that's weaponizing isabella i think that's meeting him on the same playing fields that you can move forward with a limited amount of time so i don't know it was it was pretty nuts to watch and it only goes south from there because like they get into the divorce proceedings a little bit and him trying to take credit for everything to like the the minutia of it all when he's talking about i hired a behavioral therapist it's like you

guys hired a behavioral therapist she agreed to go see it maybe you were the one that brought it up but like he's trying to come out of this you're the one that googled you're the one that googled therapists in the area correct like he's trying to come out of this like i'm trying to take the necessary steps i might not be perfect but i'm trying to do right by michel and isabella that's not what we're watching especially in this episode we're actually seeing the opposite it sounds like you're trying to spin this narrative of i'm doing my best while making her look like the villain and instead it's coming off as I'm splitting hairs on the details because I'm a piece of shit but I'm trying to get some armor here and even with the behavioral

therapist it backfires because she's like yeah and what did she say dumbass give me some grace understood where I'm coming from got that my mom was dying like I guess my whole thing is he's been so calculated and maybe this is what happens when I'm Amy Nicholson the film critic for the LA Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director. You might know me from The League, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We come together to host Unspooled, a podcast where we talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, must-season, and case you missed them. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night. So if you love movies like we do, come along on our cinematic

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Search for Raiders of the Lost Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. You get him in, like, because the reunion is high pressure. It's very uncomfortable, so maybe that's what happens. Like, if he'd done this last season, we might have seen this earlier. But I'm glad that Michelle's... Her emotionality actually works really well in this situation because she's so like mellow about everything all the time and like not very emotional. Yeah. It comes off better because I just believe her.

I'm like she's just talking right now, like very monotone and very calm. I believe everything she's saying. I don't believe anything Jesse's saying. No. And I think that this is, you know, I hate to call it a constructive conversation because it's really not. But in the eyes of the audience, it's kind of constructed because you get to see how Jesse operates and how the two of them operate in a conversation. And this is probably the most prolonged conversation that we've seen the two of them have that wasn't, you know, we have to talk about this on camera. We have to talk about this on camera.

Like this was very much so like a raw, emotional, where are you guys right now? What's going on? What have you been dealing with for the last few months with your divorce proceedings, with all of the things going on with your families, with figuring out co-parenting? It was very much, you know, just kind of what it was. And this is in that setting, I feel like very important, because like you said, in the past, when we look at Michelle's behavior or the way that she kind of reacts to things, she is kind of cold and calculated and emotionless. And that can kind of work against you in certain situations, especially when Jesse's spinning the narrative that you are like that. And he's very charismatic. We don't have a lot to go off of.

So we're like, yeah, you know, I can see how that goes. And I think early in the season and midseason, we were both saying, yeah, you're both doing it. You're both playing games. You're both trying to win. But in this situation, in this conversation, you can really see how it works with Jesse doing this. And when you see her start to get frustrated, it's very real. It's very much like, I get it. I understand why you're so frustrated because if you had to, if anybody on this cast had to deal with Jesse in a situation like this, it would be hell.

So watching her go through it. It's like you've been through this so many times. You're very cool and collected. And then when you start getting rattled, we understand why. So we get it. So now it's just sort of like a shud. shift back to like, okay, Michelle is way less the problem to Jesse. And going through a lot more than we probably gave her credit amidst the season.

And like you said, I think that's what this highlighted so well was like, ah, right. Like, of course she was acting out a certain way after he pressed her because she's been doing this daily probably trying to just, trying to just move the fuck on. And he's, he's holding it all back. But we find that abuzzled too, just like everybody else was, just like what Michelle was saying. Jesse's very charismatic. It was not.

You were. What are you talking about? I will not sit here. Absolutely. By the ex-president of the Jesse fan club. I will not. I will not tolerate this. Who said X?

He's got some work with it. It'll be all right. Hey, I love that you stand on business. Ten toes down. Nice job. But we find out that Jesse's repting himself, which is a wild move.

And I don't, like, normally I would say, this is ego talking i think that a part of him wants to get all of the details in discovery i think he wants to be able to read everything for himself i think that this is a selfish move just so he can get all the dirt i do genuinely think that it's a financial issue i don't think he can afford an attorney right now yeah i was thinking the same thing i really think that's what it was i love that we also take this opportunity to get involved and say jason's not going to help you out he's not on the on the legal consultant team. I'm not on the team, guys. I'm not on the team. Who the fuck would want that guy

on their consultant team? Like, how are, how are we actually, uh, wait a minute, you might want Jason because he is really good at ripping people off and getting money for situations that they desperately need the money. So just he actually might be able to use Jason. I think he should, that's a good point. That's a very good point. You can get Alamode out of Michelle. Yeah, it's, it's the equivalent to workman's comp. Yeah. Yeah, I guess so. Get them on the team. Give them something to do i don't want to see that at all we'd have to watch that all next season yeah but it makes sense like you just said because the whole thing that jesse's going after is seemingly money i want to get paid back for the wedding that's a ludicrous statement what a wild statement to make like i want to

get i paid for the whole thing we talked about splitting it i don't believe that at all if if we go back if we could go back and be like a fly on the wall i imagine the conversation went something like this because their wedding was for 50 people and cost $150,000. Yeah. I imagine it went something like, money's not an issue. I want to do this up. I wanted to be grand. You deserve this day.

I'll pay for it. I've got the money while we're at it. Throw 5,000 tulip pedals in there. He was definitely flexing about this wedding. He was definitely trying to bump out his chest and be like, I got it, babe, don't worry about it. And now he's broke. And he's like, well, you did say you're going to pay for half.

she probably offered one time like please let me help and you probably went no I've got this don't worry about it's going to be the best day ever that's what I imagine happened so now you're trying to represent yourself and get $75,000 out of her for your wedding what dude again the way the California works who the fuck knows he might actually win that one that's the one I don't know he's surprised yeah everything every surprise you can do whatever the hell you want in those those courts that's what it sounds like like the PK and derreet thing we listen to. Like, it all just, it's like 50-50 to be equal, but it's like in situations where somebody's clearly the villain, they still have the right to 50%. Like, that doesn't make sense to

me. Yeah. I don't know. We're not lawyers. We're not lawyers, but it seems set up so that dudes can do this, which is grimy. Yeah. And, you know, as we get further into the Jesse stuff, he's, he's, you know, trying to be, I wanted to move on with Aaron. I wanted to have a good life i want this is the only thing i truly believed my life's a mess and i want to put some fires out in my own personal life but i can't because of this divorce that's funny though because it's like you're causing this divorce to be prolonged you're causing fires in your own life put down the magnifying glass jesse quit burning ant hills it would go so far and maybe maybe he'll get there at some point but like i i don't know we have no idea where they are in the process with this even after this

very long conversation about their divorce it doesn't seem like it's getting done anytime soon so maybe he'll get to a point where he'll just let bygones be got bygones just to get the whole fucking thing over with yeah when he literally has no money he will when he when he's just yeah when he's just poor i mean what do we hear that he had to get a hundred thousand dollar loan out and he's probably 300 000 hmm probably home equity but wait that was the other thing they don't own their house they rent their house they rent their house god how much you think that is for that next to the chateau i have no fucking clue to be a lot 10 grand a month for that small ass house let's see britany's britney's in the valley and it's well it's 17 000 after

that i think it was originally there's 1.3 billion dollars in taxis it yeah i think it was originally 8 to 9000 and then with the added so i'm gonna say it's i'm gonna say it's at least 15k a month probably you think i mean i wouldn't be shocked at all location location location location you know especially out in Cali, right? So, I mean, a lot of his financial woes seem to be, or all of them are self-influing. Yeah, it's image. I need to look a certain way, act a certain way. I need to buy tulips for my friends.

I don't know. It's just, it's hard to have any sympathy when it seems like he's just walking around with gasoline and lighting fires everywhere he goes. I'm surprised he doesn't have a new teeth, like get veneers. You know what I mean? He seems like a veneer guy. He does. He does. That's where he draws the line.

No, it's ridiculous. It's a big chompers. I think that would fix everything. We've seen it work in other shows. Just get pet teeth. I don't know. We probably should have planned for this, but there's a lot to talk about. And we've been going for a long time already.

We're going to do a two-parter, everybody. So stay tuned. It's already up so you can go and listen to the second part right now. But we're doing a two-parter. So let's not waste any time. We'll do questions in the next one, too. You got anything else? Nope.

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