Bros & Shows - JUSTICE FOR JENN! DOWN WITH DEVIN! (Bachelorette Finale Full Recap)

Episode Date: September 5, 2024

What's up Brose? We had quite the finale of this season. What we thought was a sure thing for Devin and Jenn to ride off into the sunset quickly took a turn. In this episode, the remaining contestants meet Jenn's family as they put them through a round of questioning to make sure they are the right fit for Jenn. Devin seems to say the right things, preaches about love and how important Jenn is to him. Marcus continues to say that he 'cares about her a lot' but is unable to say the L word. Although when backed into a corner he lets love slip... Meanwhile at the live taping, there is an uneasy feeling throughout the room. Jenn's family is visibly upset and after Marcus is sent home early we are still waiting for the bomb to drop. It seems as though Jenn and Devin are destined to be together after hearing him proclaim his love to her the entire season. Jenn breaks records in Bachelor nation and decides shes going to propose to Devin and it all seems great until we cut back to a Jenn at the live studio in tears... Little did we know that Devin is not who she thought he was, not who we thought he was and he proceeded to not only break Jenn's heart but he broke our hearts as well... Justice for Jenn. Down with Devin.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I don't need the spotlight. I shine just fine. Hi, I'm karma. And yes, I am a bitch. Bravo Bros. Good afternoon, everybody, and welcome back to a very solemn episode of Brav Bros. B-R-O-S-E. Shooter, you're not allowed to accept this, Rose, because we had our hearts broken. I don't even have a clever name for you. Shooter McSad.

What's up, dude? It was a tough watch. That was a tough watch. It was fucking brutal, dude. This is not going to be a silly goose time as where you. used to. And Jen had a shit season. Poor Jen.

That's a tough season. My God. What a way to go out. Like, we had high hopes for one of our members on that show. Devin. And wow, did he disappoint? So did Marcus. Everyone disappointed.

I don't know. The whole season was, now that this has happened and you look back, you're like, fuck, dude. Like, these guys were duds. There was, obviously everybody's now saying she should have picked Jonathan. But at the time, it made sense that she wouldn't because she loved Marcus, Devin loved her, and her and Jonathan were just, you know, figuring shit out. Put quotes around that Devin loved her. Yeah, I know.

I mean, my God, here's what pisses me off, okay? There's a litany of reasons, but let me start at the top. What pisses me off is I fell for it. Devon tricked me. So that upsets me because I like to think I'm a good reader of people. I was bamboozled. I was hoodwinked. I was flabbergasted, if you will.

let me go for another one now every idiot on the show all those dickheads in the beginning the sam ms the thomas ends they get to say told you so and it's like no no no you didn't because you guys didn't see it either you were just pissed because he was taking time with jenn but they get to say that now and that pisses me off it pisses me off that jen was was heartbroken in front of the world and had to sit there bamboozled i actually texted you when it started happening, there's nothing that Devin could possibly say, even if he went in with the most sincerity, all of the things that happened, even if Jen was fully at fault, it wouldn't have mattered. No. There's nothing you can do. You walked into a hellscape. You walked into the Thunderdome. He walked into the Thunderdome and he should have taken the lightning. Well, he didn't because he still sat there and tried to defend in bizarre reasons. We'll get there. I don't want to jump the gun here, because I have a lot to say, and this will not be a silly goose episode for the majority. There's still some silly goose times. I'm going to make fun of it. Yeah. Oh, it's still a

very unserious show, so I don't give a shit. I do. I agree, except the serious aspect came into play when I had to sit there and watch Jen cry for, I don't know how long that scene took to actually play out live. I was so surprised that obviously the way that it unfolded, which we'll get into. When I clicked and looked at how much time we had left, obviously we knew it was a three-hour episode, but that was an hour worth of commercials. Sorry if you watched it live. Yeah, we peacocked it or who looted it. Really sorry if you had to watch that live, but watching it, I'm like, oh, it's got to be almost over. They're not going to make us sit here for that long and watch the two of them go back and forth and dig up their relationship and what

happened. Oh, no. No, it was 42 minutes. Forty-two minutes. I paused at the same time. Yeah, exactly. That means that you and I at the exact same point in that situation got uncomfortable enough to be like, all right, how much time's like, yeah, how much longer enough to watch this? I was like, fuck, like 42, I was like 42.30. It was still somehow worse than I thought it was going to end up being. It got worse. And that this is the other best part.

Admittedly, this is the type of show that you can skip around. Oh, yeah. If it just gets dull and boring and it's the same shit over and over again. In between scenes with Palmer or like an in-between scene where she's just recapping, we've just watched. You can kind of skip it. You skip through that. You hit the 10 second mark.

Boom, boom, boom, boom. I didn't do that once leading up to it. And that was the only time I was like, I need to get through this. But I didn't. I still didn't do it because I had to sit through the pain. I had to take it with her. Yeah. Yeah.

Definitely. Fucking Jeremy. It's hilarious. Jeremy's there to support Devin. That's the best part. He didn't say he was there to support Devin. But Jonathan said, oh, he did say the brother. Jonathan said to support Jen.

Jeremy was like, I'm here to support my boys, Sue. Little did we know, you're supporting this dickhead, who you know is about to get smoked. And you're still sitting there like, I got to support my dudes. It's like, maybe not. Maybe just say Marcus. I know. I also love that Hakeem was there, but just for the reactions. No, Hakeem's reactions in the box at the bottom of the screen.

I wrote it down every time because he was legitimately an audience member, like, like he was defying. The same as everybody else. The people in the audience were hilarious. my God, the reactions were. God, the reactions are over the top, and the best part is these people believe all of this. Did you see the blonde lady crying for like 10 minutes? Well, that was, that was a past Bachelorette.

Oh, it was? Yeah, I can't remember what her name is, but yeah. That makes it different. Apparently, because I saw this on Twitter later. Did you hear me just get sympathetic? Uh-huh. Uh-huh. She gets it.

She felt that. No, apparently she did go through something similar. So, yeah. She knows. She knows how it feels. That's why she was crying. That went, I'll give a pass. I was trying.

Trying to look at it, because I love the little box in the corner. I'm watching Jen's brother going through all of this. I'm like, why does he say he's pissed off? What happens? What happens? What's he smiling at? And he was, weirdly enough, smiling at Devon scenes and upset about the Marcus scene. He was probably because he was smiling like, oh, this fucking guy.

And then at Marcus' scenes, he's probably like, man, I should have pushed for this guy more. I've also been toying with an idea and not for that long, honestly, just my drive over to your house of how conspiracy theorists I'd like to go with this. Oh, I'm going to go about 50%. I would like a 65%. You want a little higher? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can go a little higher. Because I'm going to give the other approach where I'm going to just fucking skewer

Devin and Marcus a little bit. I'm still going to skewer them. Yeah, I'm still going to skewer Marcus, too, too. There's a lot of fucking guys too energy. There's a lot of fuck boy energy. We get Marcus way too much credit this entire season. Way too much. Look, what he did was incredible.

It was honorable, everything that he did before the Bachelorette. Oh, yes. Incredible. Great job. Yeah. Your stint on the Bachelorette. he was just gas letting her the entire time. He just couldn't actually muster up the courage to say,

yeah, I'm not that NDA. You know what the funniest part is? There's better things out there for me. Yeah, as she started to realize it because I realized it, I mean, last week I was kind of on the fence. Her epiphany about it was kind of when it landed with me too. I was like, yeah, no, he's full of shit, bro. The shit he's saying to like her brother.

I'm like, I don't buy. I texted you. Yeah. If you didn't watch you, I go, yo, Marcus is giving serious fuckboy energy. I'm not buying any of it. And two very different intros to the family. Devon came in, he looked nervous, he was upset, he was just trying to, like, get their approval.

Marcus came in, like, the typical asshole. He came in confident. Yeah, he gave them all hugs. He knew everybody's name. And he said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, take a step back, buddy. Settle down. Yeah, settle down, have a little respect and get in there, and you're going to face some tough questions.

Yeah. But, so I'll go, yeah, I'll go 65% conspiracy theorist on this one. I do not fully believe. that all of this wasn't played out I'm sure there is look I don't think the gem was fully blindsided I it look oh this is this is a Lindsay Carl debacle

Oh god yeah she was she blindsided Yeah um I don't I don't think she was blindsided by this Because And I go back to the bloopers Which is a weird thing to pull Oh Where we see her starting up and she's talking

And she can't even really announce You know where they are when they were going to the Thunderdown under And she, like, messed up. And, like, yeah, it's a little throwaway thing. All of her speeches after a guy has wronged her are so eloquent. They're so well put together. People don't talk like that. In which moment?

Okay. So right at the end of the Marcus conversation where they're sitting on the couch in Hawaii. Okay. She was able to portray all of her feelings and that sudden realization of this isn't going to work for me. I need to choose myself over you. I need to choose myself over everything else, whatever. I can't even redo it. That's how, like, it was...

She went outside to take a breather. Don't you do that moment? You've been in arguments before. Can you go take a breather and come in and put together a poem? Here's the thing. Okay. Here's the thing. What?

Inspiracy, Sean. Oh. Whoa. You need to relax, pal. You need to fucking bleep that out. I wish I had a bleep button for every time I said your legal name. The best part is when I let it slip every once in a while. A lot of people will comment.

Or D, I must be like, oh, my God, I had no idea his name. Who the fuck is that? I didn't say it again. But here's my counter to you before you keep going down this rabbit hole. Because I don't like this rabbit hole. Because this is the moment that she found her power. Yeah. So don't you take that away from it.

Even if it took two takes. Part of the conspiracy. Even if it took two takes, okay? She found her power. All right. And Marcus, Marcus is just a fuck boy. And it became so apparent early. Very early in this episode.

When he started talking, I was like, oh, I know this drill. but let's wait let's dive in because we've got three hours and by the way as you said there wasn't a whole lot of 10 second skippers here now this was three or I guess on the on who it was two hour seven minutes or something and it was and look this isn't going to be a long drawn-out podcast it's not going to be a three-hour long podcast that's for sure it was more so that you needed to get the gravity of the situation whereas a lot of times they're on these dates and you're like yeah I watched you go on a date with like seven other dudes and it goes the exact same way you guys tell the exact same stories

and then you end up giving them a rose. This was different because you do need to actually look at the questions that are being asked, how they're being answered. There's nothing to skip at all. So it's not necessarily like we're not going to gloss over. We're just going to highlight the important parts of all of the scenes. And it's really just family, family, family, date.

We're giving like the breakdown here. It's family, family, date, conversation, bombshell. Bomb shell. Tell all. That's the, that's it. Yes. Bro, bros are out of here. Let's jump in.

So, as you said, we start out with family, and they're there to grill these guys. I actually love this setup. I thought it was hysterical that it's like you're basically going into an interview. You have multiple people you need to talk to. This is like round one, two, and three of an interview process all at once. But Jen gets there and she's talking to her family. We get to meet James. Her brother, who reminds us many, many times that he's the protective brother.

Yes. Which I like James a lot. I'm not going to drag him. But he did say protective brother. I think 10 or at least 10 times, yeah. Here's the funny thing. No disrespect to their relationship. Has she mentioned her brother at all this season?

I don't really. I remember the mom. I talked about the mom a lot. The brother was not brought up as the, and it could be a very easy situation. My father's not in my life anymore, so my brother has stepped up. up to be the protective brother. Or my brother and I went through a really hard child. The brother was never mentioned.

The brother was never mentioned. He just popped up at the end as the enforcer. Okay, that's what I thought. I'm not taking away from their relationship. No, no. Because he was very sweet. I like James. But I, yeah, that one I was like, did James at least I'll give him this for both of these

meetings? He understood what the game was. He did. He gets it. This is what's going to happen. I need to do my best to at least vet these guys. Because it's going to happen regardless. Yes.

The mom had no fucking idea. What you guys need more time. Mom, I have to get engaged in two days. Two days, mom. I only have two days. Well, in our culture, no, mom, in every culture across the board. Usually you take a little bit more time. She just couldn't really wrap her head around it.

And I love that because it really brings you back because you get lost in this like fantasy world of the bachelorette. And you're like, oh, she's got to make a tough decision here. It's been the rest of her life. Nothing else could happen. They have to get married. We need to see this. or ABC is going to implode. Yeah.

That's how we all think. Two months. Two months. This has been two months. And it's so funny you said that because I wrote down when she was saying that. Like you just need more time. I was like, that's not the game, mom. But the mom seems very sweet.

And like I will say this about her family and her best friend was there. So it was her aunt, her mom, her brother and her best friend. All of them are repeating what we've heard all season. She more or less, and this is not a knock on Jen, we all have a tough track record when you look back. But she goes, all of them say, her past relationships have been more or less a disaster. So we're here to make sure that does not happen again. But Devin gets there first.

And he did it. I thought his approach was good. And this is, again, this is going to start to piss me off as we talk about it because God, did I fall for it. He's very gentle. He says all of the right things. He sits down with the mom and the aunt first. And they're asking him a bunch of questions. Why do you love Jen?

Great responses. I don't think great responses, though. I didn't think Marcus had a great response. Neither of them. Devin was better than. Devin was better than because Marcus is just so caught up in the... I don't love her. Yeah, I don't want to do this.

I don't really care anymore. He doesn't make me do this? I'm ready to leave now. I wanted to go home weeks ago. Why am I still here? I tried to break up with her at the waterfall. And she took me to the conjugal visit room. Yep.

So that's how that played out. No, I thought that in the moment I even thought this, not even like in hindsight. Neither of them had good answers. They talked about themselves. Well, Devin's response was. she accepts me for who I am and I never seen she makes me yeah which is the fucking thing makes me feel 100% myself these are all compliments to her I agree they are self-centered I agree it's very self-centered is probably the best way to put that none

neither of them said she's an incredible girl she brings like brings out the best of me is still self-centered I love her personality I like you don't talk about how much you love her well I love how much she cares about her family yeah things like that it's always how it makes me feel. So it's very me, me, me. Okay. Which is weird because even Marcus didn't really do that the entire season. Devin definitely did not do that the entire season.

And now, for whatever reason, when they're talking to her family, they're very me-centered. That's interesting. It was really weird. I didn't think either of them perform that well. This episode is brought to you by Mu-Mu. Introducing Mutein, the new feminine fragrance by the iconic fashion house. Mutine captures the youthful, unconventional essence of the Mew-Mew Girl. Brought to life by a Gormand.

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but they did kill them. Yeah, I would imagine. But if you lose, if you don't end up with her, how are you going to feel? He goes, just pretty much kill me because I believe in what we have. I wouldn't have stated that if we didn't know what happens at the end. The way that he talks to her is very important because what we see at the end of this is night and day from that. And it was, it was shocking. And that's the funniest part when we get the reveal that she's going to propose to him, which is going to go down in Brov Bro's lore, because you said it on the air.

I swear to God, I said, I made the prediction. You need to listen to it on the air. I did. and you said it, okay? So here's what might have happened. And this is a scary premise both ways, okay? Because I'm very confident that I said it first. So one of two things have happened, both are alarming.

One, my memory really is so bad that I can't fucking remember. Two, we spend so much goddamn time together and talk so much that I'm starting to believe that your thoughts are my thoughts. And that's horrifying. I like that one. I don't like that at all. I really like that one. I can't tell you how much that's scary. scares me. I have a movie for you. What is it? Inception. Inchuchin? Inchuchin. I've been in your dreams.

I hate it. I hate that idea. I thought about the other. I was like, oh, no. This is bad. I was in. That's the funniest part too. And I know we're not really jumping around. This is just on topic. I texted you in that exact moment. I am the king of the bachelor. You want to hear the worst part? What? I texted you and deleted it before you sent that. Like way before, because I watched it before you. Right. And I got that reveal. And as I was texting you, I got the other reveal as to what happened. Oh, fuck.

I deleted it. And I shit you not. I typed out, I'm the fucking best predictor ever. And then deleted it because I thought that it was me that said that. That is incredible. And I deleted it. And then you hit me with I'm the king of the bachelor. And that's what I was like, fuck you.

That's bullshit. You got so defensive immediately. But it was really funny, too, because I had paused it right after that. because we got a little break in the action. I went to the bathroom. I came back, filled my water, you know, normal things. Came back, turned it back on immediately, and they're no longer together. I was like, fuck.

Maybe I'm not. Here's the text from you. Well, I was also lumping in the fact that I clearly won with the draft and everything. You didn't win with the draft. I'll give you that. Technically. So here's the... Yeah, I know. You didn't really. Nobody won. Here's the thing. Here was your text to me. I, God,

I am the king of the bachelor. Wait. holy shit this is brutal yeah that's a real rundown of my emotions yeah that's what happened two or three minutes bam but we get to jenn and her mom they're talking about devon and the impact or impression that he's made on the family and she's like you know what do you like about him she can talk about his feelings he's open he's caring he wants to understand he wants to learn more about the vietnamese culture because that's an issue for the mom she wants to make sure that he wants to be involved in their culture that's very important to them and their family.

Do you like him? Mom, I think you need more time to understand each other. That's where I wrote, that's the game, Mom. You need to make a decision. But here's the thing. As they're going through all of this, as they're chit-chatting, as she's starting to come to learn who Mark, or sorry, who Devin is, and the family's starting to get to know who he is, and Jen's talking about him. In my mind, because, again, this is before the disaster that happens.

I'm like, how on earth is this still a competition? How are you saying all of these wonderful things about Devon Who embodies everything that you've wanted in a man And yet you're still holding on hope for Marcus I was like the decision to me is so black and white clear at this point That it made no sense to me I think that she had to do that though You have to do the smoke and mirrors

To make it seem like there's a possibility I'm wondering when otherwise people are going to check out When did it click so I know what she said But I want to know what you think uh after like the day after the conjugal visit or was it i don't know which i don't know if this is going to be 65 or 35 for me was it the moment that was it genuinely like she said the moment that devon went to her room was like yo i'm out i'm out because you don't love me and she's like i do love you which again we really have to figure that one out psychologically speaking because

that's fucking dirty warfare so yeah i mean i'll address that not even as conspiracy i think that what Devin was doing is he's very much a very low confidence guy. Quite clearly. He said it before. He was a husky kid. He grew up and he got better looking. And now he's still got that like fear of rejection as part of that. And I look, I mean,

you're in a fucking competition with a bunch of other good looking guys. So of course you're going to feel that way. And if you don't feel like it's reciprocated, then you're going to get in your own head, which is what we talk about when they go on their date. But for that, yeah, I do think that's probably what he was feeling in the moment. He still wanted to be the one to be chosen.

And then once he was chosen, he was like, all right, well, I won. I'm going to go back to that. Yeah, I'm the man. I'm going to go back to my life. And then he realizes, oh, I've got 40, like, 50,000 new followers because people are following me on this. I've got, you know, another bachelorette following me now. Like, that's a big feel.

Did she follow him? I don't know. We never really got into that. The real was the potential contestant of this season that they thought it was going to be and it was not. Yes. That was interesting to note. Which I, you know, whatever, there's more lore in there from The Bachelorette that I don't quite understand.

But, yeah, I think that that's, he's just a plain average dude that got sent through this. If he got sent home six weeks ago, he would have been fine. He would have been on the, I love her so much. I miss her. Oh, it may be. Or he would have been like, if the potential wasn't there, he would have probably not go down this path. But once he won, he's like, oh, I'm the man. Like, I'm going to go clubbing with Jeremy.

Yeah. Shout out, shut out Jeremy. I'm going to go clubbing with Jeremy and all these girls want me. Yeah, no, I don't need to do this anymore. Like, this isn't even real. That's kind of the vibe I can. That's kind of where he is, yeah. Look, summer's coming to a close, and it's getting to school season.

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So go to homechef.com slash brabroes. That's homecheft.com. slash braf bros for 18 free meals and free dessert for life homechef.com slash brabros must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert we got james and devon talking and james does let him know i can't give my blessing yet because of marcus but all in all the family seems to like devon he left a good enough impression mom's obviously still skeptical i don't think she's james said he certainly set the bar Yeah, he certainly set the bar. Now, Marcus...

It's up to Marcus to raise that bar. That's not how you do it. Did he set the bar high or low? You set it somewhere. It's not up for you to know. It's for James to know and for us to find out. Yeah, because it's still a two-horse race at this point, even though it hasn't been a two-horse race for weeks.

Correct. I agree. But let's get to Marcus. And I wrote that down. Devin set the bar. If this guy is the guy, is the guy. If he's the guy, you've got to say, I love you. Which is fair, because we've gotten to this point.

And again, in my mind, after the family meeting with Devin, as you say, he could have performed a little better. I didn't think he did terribly. I think he did enough. But again, as Marks is coming into the room and they're having the preamble trying to figure out, I'm like, this seems so apparent to me. Like, it's not even a competition. And he's not ready yet. It's very clear. But he's talking to everybody and we can lump it into one because he has the same conversation across the board.

I want to get there. I really care about her I would really like to see this through and that's the other thing what does that mean see it through to see if you were going to fall in love see it through to an engagement see it through to oh no we're going to break up

like what is that so I've gone back and forth on this and it kind of does make a little bit of sense it's so condensed that in the grand scheme of things in the normal world you would never say I needed one more date to see how I actually felt about you right but in this one date

worth like three or four weeks of dating, right? Yeah, yeah. Looking it that way, it's kind of like dog ears. That's a good way to put it. So one date could be make her break for him, and he's just waiting until the end to be sure. No. Because he did say after, like,

when she came to his room and talked to him right afterwards, he goes, it's not how I expected this to play out. I thought I was going to have one more date with her, and that was really going to, you know, make up my mind for me. No, it wasn't. I know, I'm just trying to play devil's advocate. No, this makes any sense.

It's all bullshit. No, but when he's talking to the mom and he talks to James about a little bit This is when I finally I was like, oh, you're just a fuck boy dude That's all you are Because he's going with the approach of I'm putting pressure on myself

It turns into about him And I'm like, whoa, whoa I feel so much pressure to live up To what she needs in a husband Like in a father In everything that she deserves in this world Like I'm afraid that I can't live up to that That's bullshit

That's like when a dude's talking to a chick And things start to get a little bit real and he goes with the, I need to work on myself right now. Ladies, if you get hit with that. That's all he was doing. Yeah, I know. Like a PSA to the ladies out there that are listening. If you get hit with one of those, I'm looking, I'm working on myself right now, he's

ghosting you. He doesn't want any part of it. Yeah, that's it's no other way to read that. I promise you, if you get hit with it, I'm working on myself right now, he's not interested. Yeah, and this is like the duplicity of Marcus. He's able to walk into that room being so confident meeting the family. Where's that confidence talking to Jen? All of a sudden he's, he like hides.

behind this pressure. He's timid. And he's worried. He just, he wants to save face with the family so that he's not skewered, I guess. Sure. And then when he's talking to Jen, he's like, yeah, I don't know. And he said, he's been saying the same thing for weeks. So it was kind of rough to watch again.

But I needed this one to like solidify for me. I'm like, oh, you've been playing a game the whole time and now it's getting real. And so you're putting the pressure on yourself where it's like, dude, if you look at the grand scheme of this show, Jen has poured her heart out to you. And she has held on to this hope that we didn't understand it for the past few weeks of when is Marks going to come around. It's like, why do you want this guy that's not into you when you have Devin who is faking being into you very well so much so that he fooled all of us, fucker. But this was when the mask was fully pulled back for me watching him talk about how it's on him, how I feel pressured. And now you're making it that she's trying to pressure it.

It's like, no, she's just shared with you what she needs in a man. and now you're using that as an excuse because you can't possibly live up to all of those things. That's bullshit. Yeah, all that said to me was, I kind of like you. Maybe we would date in the real world. I'm not comfortable with any of this going on

and I haven't been for weeks, and I've been trying to get you to send me home, and you won't send me home. This will do it. Please send me home. I am not into you. Everybody else has said that they love you. I haven't.

And that's the other thing is, can the guys talk at all? Like, there's behind the scenes things that I really want to know how this works. Yeah, I imagine that they shoot the shit, Are they just chatting about stuff? Well, they got to keep, I'm sure they can talk about whatever. I'm sure for gameplay purposes and for not getting their feelings hurt, they probably don't go as far to say, like, I told her I loved her today. Yeah, probably not.

Because they don't want to feel, you know, if somebody else says, well, she told me she loved me last week, now their confidence is shot. Yeah, then they're completely out. Yeah. Because I'm wondering, like, when Marcus, I do feel like has been trying to get sent home. He's like, I'm just not there. We both agreed that when he had the one-on-one last week, it was like, that sounded like a breakup and yet she was like well let's see if we can talk this through at the

conjugal visit she sent jonathan home yeah who you had a really good rapport with but the same set up in the same position yeah so if you wanted to wait like jonathan could have gotten there this week i think i think jonathan meeting your family he probably would have walked out and said it's really nice to see where you come from i'm ready i do love you i'm ready yeah boom and then he would have won he would have won he would have won no i don't think so dude devon would have won and she I don't think seven would have won. If she and Jonathan came together and they both said, I love you, I think she would have gone with John.

Here's why I think Jonathan would have been the right pick and would have solved a lot of problems for her. Her biggest problem is that she has gone after a similar man for her entire life, which is only embodied by the two finalists on this show. They are both exactly what she's used to in her past relationships. Jonathan was a chance to have that similar guy, but have a breakthrough moment with her. where he does get over that hump

and now she's able to address the previous man that she used to be in love with, that kind of type, and say, wow, we overcame that together and now we're in love, that would have been the move. Yeah, I would argue that what Devin was portraying was that.

Was that? Yes, the fully available... I'm here for you, whatever you need. I love you so much, and I'm open to you about everything. Because he's a manipulative fuck and realize that, oh, she needs all these things. I can be that guy for you. I can 100% be that guy.

I'm saving my Devin Rann. It's coming. Don't you worry. Don't you worry. I got it saved up for the end. But we see their first date. It's the only date because the second was just a conversation. But Devin and Jen, they go to a ceremony on the Hawaiian beach.

I know you're not a spiritual guy, but I actually like this because of the, even if you don't believe in the spirituality of it, the symbolism of it. I'm like, I can fuck with this where you throw your problems. We saw this on Beverly Hills. Not the ocean where they go in. Well, they didn't go into the ocean. They got baptize. I wrote baptism. Yeah, that was baptism.

That was a baptism. I know, but the throwing of the rock into the ocean. We saw it on Beverly Hills, and I didn't believe any of them, so I don't believe that he's doing it. I have exercised the demons. I don't know. I think that that would feel good. Honestly, I think that would be a healing process in which you'd come out of it going, I feel

a little bit lighter, both literally, because I threw a giant rock and figuratively. Yeah. I'm going to get you to do some spiritual shit one day. It's between me and my therapist. I don't need a deal. with that shit? You think I'm going to admit it out loud? Yeah, I think that would be very healthy.

Who a therapist, yeah. I think that, no, the whole point of therapy is to work towards a goal, not just keep dumping on your therapist. It's supposed to be more emotionally open to everything. But hey, you do, you, boo-boo. Nope. Yeah. Yeah.

It's just gliding behind your, never mind. This is a totally different podcast about Shooter's wall that he has around him, but we'll break through it eventually. I get glimpses, and it's lovely when I do. It's like my favorite moments. It's like once a year. You open up, I'm like, oh, yes, it feeds me. You want to see me naked?

And then you do this. See, that's called a deflection. Emotionally. Yes, I would love to see you disrobe emotionally. It would make me very happy. I would be very... Put that off at disrobe and we'll clip that. No, I'm out there.

You don't edit, so sorry, pal. I'm talking to the editor. We don't have one. You're looking at them. That's why I don't sleep. Tell them. They know. That's why it's not well done.

they know you know hi oh yeah you do youtube yeah if you're not watching you're really missing out a lot of hand stuff oh that doesn't sound right where are we the night time after disrobing right after shooters emotionally disroving uh this should go down in reality tv history as how manipulative men operate because they look for highly emotional moments such as this. It's your last one-on-one. You know the big days tomorrow. Somebody's going home with a ring.

There's going to be a proposal. So you left a haymaker in your bag. You left one more atomic bomb to drop so that you could help seal the deal. And dumb steel is watching this going, oh, my God, this is so sweet. I didn't think that she cared that much. Because he saved this shaman rock that he got under one. Here's the thing. What it actually was is irrelevant to me.

I thought that the thing was cool, especially because it was given to them by the Maori people after their big one-on-one date. I thought the actual piece of jewelry was pretty sick, but that's irrelevant. The point is, he had this and let it simmer. He didn't, he could have pulled this thing out at any point to gain an edge on the competition. He waited until his last date with her to break it out. I thought that was a solid move. Also sentimental, emotional. But now looking back, I'm like, wow, you fucking emotional terrorist, you motherfucker.

saved this for the end, knowing that you're not really into her, and then you drop this on her, and you knows that seals the deal. I don't think the Jen was that really into him, either. That's part of my conspiracy. Here's the conspiracy. Yeah, so that was the brewing of it. When that happened, I'm like, that is

really nice. He waited, like, yes, that is a good gameplay move. But also, it's really nice. It's kind of sweet. This is our first one-on-one date. I kept this, and they told me to give it to somebody really important. Obviously, very manipulative of Devin. If he It wasn't that into her to begin with.

But Jen didn't react in a way of like, holy shit. Like, that is so sweet. I had such a different reaction. I just think that every time that he does something that she always comes back to and she's like, he's so sweet. He makes me feel so seen, which being seen is now the new thing, of course. There's a whole thing that goes into this. Every time that she talks about Devin, it's like, yeah, he was such a great guy.

But when he does those things in the moment, her reactions are never that. Like, oh, my God, I love you so much. And she only said, I love you. because he came to her with his hat in his hand in the middle of the fucking thing. Potentially, yes. I think that something stinks. Here's the thing.

Something stinks. Here's more to this conspiracy theory, by the way. I'm looking forward to it. But here's why I disagree with that. And not because of the initial reaction face to face. I thought one of the realist moments and her not being on script was when she was in her confessional

talking about that holding the necklace because I was like, wow, this seems like a genuine moment where she's actually taken aback and just talking about it. She's like, wow, I really say this till the end, like that's, this is special. Her demeanor, her body language in that moment, to me, I'm like, this seems the least polished of a confessional that we've gotten out of her.

Confessional, yes. Yeah, I'm not saying the confessional part seemed very legitimate. And I think that that confession was shortly after Devin had left because she's wearing the same clothes and holding the necklace. So I was like, all right, maybe it took some time for it to simmer. Maybe a big part of her hang up on why she's not giving these big reactions to stuff. is because Marcus is still in the picture and she's still wrestling with that a little bit. But the confessional for me was the moment I'm like, wow, I think she's actually sold finally. I think she's actually ready to be betrothed to Devin and Devin alone, depending on how tomorrow goes,

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And again, not seeing the end of it yet, just knowing that something crazy happened. I'm like, wow, it's going to work out. Devin's going to win. Yay. Little did I know. But anyway, I love that she forces the issue with Marcus. And you knew what was going to happen right before

because Marcus gets a one-on-one with Palmer and they're sitting down. And J.P. is like, all right, bro. Like, how have your feelings changed? He's like, I'm making progress. I'm crossing my fingers. I want it to work. He's saying the same shit.

He said weeks ago, he hasn't changed his stance. As you said, he's ready to go home. But there's lots of runaround. It's all lots of run around. He says, parts of me love Jen. Again, this is... But only when he's forced to do so. Only when Jesse gives him like a pointed question.

Does he say, yeah, you know, parts of me do love her. You haven't said that. since then because nobody's asked you just straight up every yeah and we're about to get into that so let's talk about they they get into jenn and marx's conversation she goes to his room forces the issue which i appreciated and says look tomorrow's the day this shit's happening tomorrow and you're still on the fence i don't know what you want i don't know what you see in your future and it finally clicked for her i don't know i don't think i clicked in this moment i think before she went into the room she had her mind made up finally but marcus's whole thing is you know

I have aspirations to be a dad and have a family and all of these things. And she's like, yeah, but do you see me in that future? And he's like, I want to see you in that future. I regret not diving deeper or sooner. She gave you every opportunity under the sun for no real reason. There's a lot of dudes that deserve to be in Marcus's shoes. She's given you the chances to say something. You have not opened up.

You can't now, as you're starting to see the door finally close, which has taken way too long for it to happen. but it starts to close and you go again to that this is scary for me because you have all of these things that you want i'm not sure i can live up to this she doesn't not one time has she said i need fucking prince charming slash superman she has said i need somebody emotionally available that i can talk to share my life with and enjoy each other's company that will love me for me and i have to stop chasing them around to love me back that's all what is this self-imposed, oh my God, I need to be X, Y, and Z to fit your criteria of what a man is. She's told you, dude, she's in love with you.

So for you to then say, I'm not the man that you need me to be is such a bullshit cop out that fuck boys use all the time to back out of shit they don't want to do. And that's all I'm seeing in this scene until he realizes, oh, fuck, I'm about to get the boot. And this motherfucker says, I mean, I did fall in love with you. It's like, whoa, whoa, dickhead. Yeah. That's bullshit. And it's the same thing, like you said earlier, until he's pressed by Jesse Palmer.

He doesn't say love. Palmer presses him. I, pardon me, loves her. Jen presses him. He goes, I love you. Because he's about to get kicked off the show. And Sam M did the same thing. I know.

Sam M was about to get kicked out, and he said, I love you. That same issue. Fuck boy behavior. He never actually opened up the entire time. Sam M, it was just found out way earlier. Marcus was a little more quiet Sam M was a little more boisterous so he got found out a little quicker

Yeah you're right Because he was the quiet Gentle, not sensitive Clearly no no emotions He was the quiet guy that just kind of rode along And then found himself at the finals Which is a problem It's a major problem

And this is where the problem begins For the entire show What now? Like the only options to you are You just kicked off a finalist Well you know what now Which is fine which I fully support because he shouldn't have been there in the first place.

Correct. You finally came to it. Good for you. I'm glad you had your realization. But now there's only Devin left. But she loves Devin. So now we're all sitting at home like, well, there's only one choice. What's their other choice going to be?

There's still two hours left. Yeah, there's still fucking two hours left in this show. And I know half of it is going to be trailers for two different shows. And then a little Golden Bachelorette catch up. But yeah, what are we supposed to do? Okay. Either she's going to let Devin propose and they're going to go. move off and the big twist is going to be

that she proposes to him, and that's never happened in the history of The Bachelorette, okay, fine. That's boring as shit, but fine, whatever. You just kicked off a finalist, so the only other option is you're not going to let Devin propose you and you're going to ride off into the sunset by yourself. I thought for a split second, and I'm like, nah, it's not

going to happen. She's going to propose. When she was like, I woke up in the morning and chose myself, it's like, oh, okay. Maybe. And I, now, looking back, I wish she had done that and been like, oh, Devin. That was never going to happen. but yeah I just the vernacular used I did fall in love with you I was afraid to tell you can I live up to it I'm not giving you what you need cut to Hakim in the audience just going you're doing that ooh face yeah Hakeem did not know what the fuck was going to happen he was so great he is so in the dark about everything so happy to be there to just be a reaction person for everything I love that of all people Hakeem has worked his way into fan favoritism because he is people love Hakeem yep but But go back to his episodes. Never saw that coming.

No. No. And I love him now. He needs to be a bachelor. I know he's going to paradise. He just needs to show up at the final roasts all the time, yeah. Ooh. Yeah, that's all he has to do.

He just has to be in that box. Like, there should be a thing on Hulu where you can select the crowd box and then also have a Hakeem box and you can just watch him live. Hakeem the whole time. I would have loved that. But this is when Jen has her final power. She's suddenly realized after taking a step away and comes back. with all of this empowerment, all of this.

You are exactly who I have been going after, and I'm not going to do that anymore. I've gone through my change. This whole Bachelorette process has been me and a metamorphosis, and I am a new woman. Fuck yeah. Didn't believe a fucking word of it. I believed all of it.

I didn't believe any of it. Why? I think it was so scripted. Who cares? I think that they knew this was coming. We know that stuff's a little drummed up? I know it's a little drummed up, but I'm still going to point it out.

We just watched and we knew it. This is not going to work with Marcus. He's not just going to fall in love with you in the last second and you're going to ride off into the sunset with Marcus. You're not stealing her power. They knew this was going to happen. Producers knew it. Let's give Jen a nice big empowerment moment.

She rises up against it. And then she goes and she ends up being single. I thought that's what was going to happen. Honestly, I figured that's what was going to happen and it was going to be a huge dud of a finale. And I'm like, well, fucking whatever, I don't care. But she had this whole source. script and I'm like I don't believe any of it I just I don't care about the script it's more how she

carried herself at I think that they were just trying to make it interesting fine but regardless I believe that she did find something in herself throughout this process I firmly yeah that's fair and that's but I don't want to take away from it just because maybe she had some help on the lines I just don't think that she had this realization said I gave the one second that she took away that see that's where we're disagreeing because I don't think it was in that one second I think that she had all of this the night before. I don't think it was this epiphany in the moment. I do think it was an epiphany the day prior,

or even a couple days before that, or maybe talking to her family, whatever, something clicked where she's like, yeah, clearly he's not the guy. And he also, maybe it was James saying, this is the same dude you've been dating. You're about to get engaged to him potentially. Like, you've dated this guy time and time again.

You're going to do it again? Would Marcus have taken it that far? Probably, because I think he's too much of a bitch to actually, He's the kind of guy that will distance, distance, distance until the girl breaks up with him. And he will ride it as long as it takes to just not be the bad guy.

That's what I think. And he got bailed out by Devin being such a piece of shit. I know his comeback to after the scene. It's crazy. They're all like, oh, you know, I hope that everything's been really great for you. It's going to be nice to see you.

Wow, you look so great. It's like, yeah. Everybody in the beginning of this episode we've got Jen with Marcus crickets and Devin a couple of cheers and you're like oh okay everybody fucking hates Marcus

flip it to the end Marcus all of a sudden is getting a round of applause because we know what's going to happen the funniest part was when Devin walks out because people didn't know what to do you get like 10 people go yay and like clap and the rest of the room is silent I was hoping for some booze

I was a little disappointed like shame ding ding we get the bell that would have been really funny but again the the way it ends with Marcus after he gets the boot and Jen has her empowering moment where she's like I'm done I'm no longer giving two men that will not give back to me all of that good stuff Marcus is crying on the lanai and going is something wrong with me no bitch you know what she did you know exactly what you did nothing's wrong with you except you're fucking a narcissistic fuck boy that's all that happened.

It's all that happened. Yeah. It's not rocket science, pal. And you're not fooling anybody. Again, you got bailed out by a bigger piece of shit. That's all that happened here. But Marcus walks out, talk to Jesse Palmer, him and JP, have a little heart to heart. It's like, how was that?

It's like, watching it back was pretty hard. It was a hard day. It took a lot of time to realize we made the right choice. I still care about Jen deeply. There's a lot of love there. Love. Here's the thing, Marcus. if you're going to go as far in your last moment with Jen

to say, I did fall in love with you. Then in this moment, there would still be that. You wouldn't fall out of love. You could have said I made a terrible mistake. You could have said a lot of things. But instead, you said the same shit that you said all season. He should have gone into this being like, I regret how long it took me to come around.

Dude, who cares? Just stand pat. Just don't look like a liar. You could go out there and just say, yeah, you know what? This was not for me. This experience was once in a lifetime. I didn't like how rushed it was. I felt like I was being pushed into it and it took me way too long to figure it out.

Just be honest about that. And then say, yeah, I still have love for her and I'm really regretting how it played out. Sure. That would have gone such a long way. Instead, he just says the same bullshit that he's been saying for weeks. Which is now two months later. So he's just been saying it for like six months now. And then he gives himself this like self-imposed like, you know, I did the right thing.

because I just needed to get out of her way. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. The self-righteousness here, sir, will not play. All right, you let her on for too long. You got caught up in it. It got to the finale. You didn't know what to do. You wanted to get kicked off.

You don't then get to say that you were doing it intentionally, and I had to get out of her fucking way, because you tried to latch on at the end by saying I love you. So that negates all of this bullshit. Again, you're only bailed out here. You're only having a nice one-on-one conversation with Jen. because of Devin. And they're sitting there talking,

like, I hope you're doing well. I'm grateful for our journey. So am I. We both learned so much. It was so amazing watching you go through your journey and your transformation. I'm so proud of you. Thanks.

I would have loved if Jen stood up in this moment and said, fuck you. Like, you weren't, you didn't help me. Yeah. I didn't need any of you. She had anger towards Devin, so it didn't really matter.

I agree, but Jen lets us know that she knew it was over with him pretty much when Devin knocked on the door to say, I'm out of here because you don't love me. which now seems like a very manipulative move, looking back in hindsight, that was the moment because she realized

that she was running towards Devin and running away from Marcus, which was nice to hear, I guess, but that all sucks. For a moment. It sucks. But it ends with Marcus saying similar shit, and it really bothers me

that he's trying to take some credit for all of this because he goes, I realized at the same time, I wasn't giving you what you needed, but I'm really proud of you. You chose yourself and your needs over everything else. Yeah, it's condescending.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, it's genuinely condescending to say, like, good for you. Like, you really did it, kid. Like, yo, you fucked her around. You gas litter for weeks. Months. Two months.

I don't even know how long this has been going on for. Two months. You gas littered the entire time because, and like, yeah, I guess in the game plan, you want to hang around as long as possible to try to figure it out. When it starts to get to the end, though, it's like, brother. Like, I know that this is a show. I do think that he still had that conversation last week. being like, yeah, we're going to break up.

I did too. And then she's like, you want to go to the honeymoon suite? And he's like, yeah, sure. Well, it's fantasy suite or conjugal visit. We can't have a third name. We can call it whatever the hell we want. The boom, boom, boom, room. Boom, boom, room.

It's mushroom. The mushroom. Yeah. We get to the morning of the engagement. And this is where you get the run around a little bit. Like, I love Devin, but after yesterday, I don't know what to do. Devin sits down with Neil to pick out the rings. Shout out Neil Lane.

You play. Neil Lane for this falling apart. Oh, yeah. It was really fun. Yeah, I did. But Palmer goes and talks to Jen. You know, she needs to follow her heart. I've let guys dictate my relationships.

No longer, I'm doing this for me. Woke up this morning with a totally different point of view, and I got to choose myself. And I'm loving all of this, okay? And if it did end that way, would it be this big cliffhanger that we wanted? No. But would I have been proud of Jen? Fuck, yeah.

She was like, I don't need these guys. I don't need no man. fuck all I use, I'm out of here. Would have been cool with that. But she does the flip and says, I'm going to propose to Devin, which we don't know who made that prediction. Nobody will ever know, despite the audio from last week. Maybe it's a Pacific Rim scenario.

And we're linked. Oh, we could be neurologically linked. Neurologically, a neurolinked. Fighting the kaiju? Yeah, we're fighting kaiju together. That I would do with you. That I would be done with that. Yeah, I would link to do that.

Yeah. That's it. Nothing else would I link brains with you other than to fight giant monsters that come out of holes in the ocean. You would have that moment where Charlie Hunnam links with the girl. Oh, yeah. He just has like a mental breakdown. No, she has the mental breakdown. I thought he did.

No, no, she does. He tries to pull her out of it and then she goes like full blast cannon. Oh, no. Yeah. Okay, yeah. But he triggered it. He triggered it. Then she went down the rabbit hole, but he came out of it.

Hopefully some of you have seen Pacific Rim, or you really don't know what the fuck we're talking about. It's also a very specific movie, so you may not have seen it. Great movie. The second one's pretty solid, too. I enjoyed that, John Boyega. Where were we? Jen and Jesse Palmer here. This cut scene was diabolical.

It was absolutely insane because you get, I'm going to propose to Devin, cut to live footage, and Jen is sobbing. And I'm like, what the fuck happened? A lot of things went through my mind. I thought Devin died. I did too. I thought Devin was dead. Devin died shortly after. I thought he fell off a cliff.

We were celebrating our engagement in Hawaii and he fell off a cliff. He got eaten by a shark. Anything. A number of things went through my head. He went snorkely and got Steve Irwin. It was still just like the most boring outcome possible. He just got really distant. It was so sad.

When we broke up. Come on. You are fucking heartless. You have no soul. isn't real. Her tears were 100% real. We need the success rate of how this actually works.

Totally fair. Totally fair. It always ends up like this. This was just accelerated. It's even more shocking that Devin couldn't even make it to like the honeymoon phase where you get to the show, the live

reveal, and you say, we're engaged and then fall off the wagon. That's my point. He couldn't even make it there. What a psycho. And her tears, and it could be embarrassment. It could be a whole lot of things in that moment, all right? That was genuine sobbing because... Oh, it was definitely genuine crying.

So I don't think that it was all thing. We will never, we will never know. Look, this is how I feel like it played out. One, I don't think the gem was ever actually in love with him. I think she strung Marcus along because she was in love with Marcus all the time. She was definitely more in love with Marcus. And she chose Devin as a backup. Agreed.

Maybe that trickled through. And Devin realized that. But Devin also got back... Did you just give him credit? No, no, no. Devin got back to... Shut up. Devin got back to reality

and realized holy shit look at all these people following me I'm just a normal dude I'm not even that hot He didn't say that He said the opposite

I agree with the first part Yeah I agree with the first part I'm where he's like I got all these new followers I just went about Surret I'm the fucking man I'm gonna go get some ass

I was saying I was Jeremy I was getting to that for sure I'm saying that he is such a he was not the most best they're the best looking guy on the show he doesn't get that sort of attention he gets home realizes he's getting that sort of attention

starts to act a little different yeah totally it's to go off the deep end and then probably says to himself well it's just the bachelor it's not fucking real it's not like we're gonna actually get married i can play this up i hate it yeah because here's the thing takes away the the fantasy of the show not even that part of it it takes away more so where you're under the impression that jen was not all the way in i disagree yeah the vibe i got from her i thought that she was And more so than that, regardless, when they get to the point afterwards where, and the shit that she's saying, this is crazy, the stuff that he said to her. Like, the promises went away, he pulled away, the effort was inconsistent. I was secondary to everything in his life.

He broke up with her over the phone, said, I didn't love you anymore. I regret being engaged. And then he denied ever being in love. And here's why I do think that she was more into it than you're saying, because she said, all right, take the rings out of it why don't we just date like she was trying to figure out a way to make it work with this guy and he's like I'm fully out I'm going to ghost you

for a week because I'm partying with Jay Rame. Jay Rame up in NYC and we're going to like sick bars. He probably met up with Jeremy's family and Jeremy's family's like yeah it's way too fast. It's just a bachelor's dude. It's a bachelor's just way too fast. Go have some club with Jeremy. Go to the club and do some eat some pasta and you know

club it out. It's all we need to do. It's fucking bullshit man and like here's the the biggest part for me and they pointed it out in the show nobody forced him to use the tactics that he did to say the things that he said to build her up the way that he did and that's where i take a huge issue and this is where i wish that he would watch this and i would talk directly to the fucking camera because this is really doesn't care anymore there's no there's no way he gives a fuck anymore because he's a big piece of shit but like to be that emotionally manipulative for an entire season to drag this girl along say all the

of the right things, know that she has these issues with men. These are the exact issues that she's had in past relationships. And you exploit that and become everything that she's never had to embody this person that you simply are not because you're a chameleon and are able to manipulate her feelings into trying to fall in love with you. Because she felt that, that you came on too strong and she was pushing away a little bit, when you felt that you were no longer in the game or potentially being out of the running, you threw a Hail Mary and went to fuck with her emotions again

by knocking on her door, saying, I need you to love me back, forcing her to say it. I don't know if she felt it in that moment. Did she feel it towards the end? Possibly. But you put her against the corner and said, I love you. I'm leaving if you don't love me too, which is manipulative as fuck,

knowing that you never actually loved her, denied ever loving her, you're telling her to her face that all you were doing is playing the game. But to play the game this way, and this just shows everybody out there. This is a great moment to have a PSA on what an actual fuck boy looks like, because this guy is the quintessential fuck boy, finds out what makes you tick,

what you need in a man, becomes that, gets what he wants, and then says, see you the fuck later, because I'm off to greener pastures. And Devin, you're not going to do better. That's the best part because this guy's going to go out here. Everyone knows who you are. Now, by the way, buddy, you're going to meet a client in New York. You're a fucking truck driver from Houston. There's nothing wrong with truck drivers.

they make this country tick. They make this country run by delivering things that we need. But you are a truck driver from Houston. You're not meeting a fucking client in New York City. You're going clubbing with Jeremy because you're a piece of shit trying to get some ass

because you think you're popular now and you're a celebrity. You're a dumpy piece of shit from Southeast Texas that needs to go back to Southeast Texas, bury yourself in a hole, and stop thinking you're cool. Go run around the park

with your stupid ass run club and leave people alone. Oh, nice. You brought the run club into it. Go back to your fucking run club. I'm sick of mediocre men. I'm sick of mediocre men Exploiting beautiful women on television

Because she was a nice lady And did not deserve any of this shit So Devin, fuck you buddy You're the reason that girls always say Men are the same and men suck Because of guys like you That use emotions to manipulate chicks To get them to fall in love with you

Get what you want You think you can do better You follow the other Bachelorette On Instagram like it's not gonna piss off Jen Knowing it's gonna piss off Jen She's not gonna give you the time of day Now nobody is And you're gonna be back to your stupid ass

Run Club. Your friends aren't going to like you because you're a dickhead on TV. Go back to your truck driving business and leave us alone. I'm sick of him. I just love in the middle of his fucking breakdown, which by the way, we don't even really did spend a whole lot of time on his breakdown at all. He didn't say anything. Nothing. Nothing he said made any sense. He put it on her. All of the sudden, all of the things that he was saying all season long, the way that he was talking was out the window. He was completely different guy. When he walked into that room, he was dressed like a different guy, he looked like a different guy, he spoke like a different guy. He was speaking like Sam M, as you said earlier.

He was speaking like Sam M, just saying the same thing over and over again, and I love in the middle of it. Every time that Jen speaks up, she is going to get a round of applause. This is the fucking Bachelorette, dude. There's a bunch of women in there that are looking at you like you're a piece of shit. Jen speaks up and starts empowering herself. They're going to applaud. And he goes, what the hell is even going on? And he goes, I didn't even need to come here.

I wanted to come here to make sure that you. were okay. Sure, dude. Whatever you fucking say, you're probably contractually obligated to go there. You can't save face. He came to. He didn't save any face. No, he didn't. He tried to. But this is the problem that you run with game shows. Agreed. You get scumbags

like this that are just going to play the game and they're going to try to do it to the best of their ability so that they can quote unquote win. If you're going to play a game like this and you're going to allow contestants to do this, there should be an ultimatum at the end. Okay. If Jen chooses to marry you and you say no, you can take the money and run.

That's what they do on Love Island. There's money out there. There's $100,000 if you don't agree to do it, you get that and you run. You could do that. Then if that's the kind of game show that you want to promote, you're supposed to be promoting love in this game. Love. You promoted Devon.

You promoted Devon. Boo. Jeremy catching a stray in that was fucking hilarious. So funny. You're clubbed with Jeremy. Boy, she brought it up. You're out there clubbing with fucking Jeremy. And he's like, what, I can't be, I can't be like having fun anymore. because, like, doesn't mean I'm not going through it.

We process breakups differently. I was going through it. I needed to get my mind off of it. I was going to see a client. And he just... You're not. There's no clients. He wasn't, but like, and look, he was a dickhead to the other guys,

but he never outwardly was a dick to someone's face. And he never did anything to Jen the entire season that at some point, it looked like he was a dickhead. Never. He was a completely different guy the entire time. So he was able to just run this fucking play the entire season. Two months. Two months of running that.

That's got to be exhausting. That's fucking, yeah, that's sociopath behavior. Or it's exhausting, probably the former. Both. Probably both, yeah, honestly. And he did. He's a very sleepy sociopath. Zero favors.

But I still just love that Jeremy got the, got thrown into the bus. Jeremy Catcher Straves was funny, but again, here's the, here you go. This is, again, PSA about fuckboys, because we just went through the list of Marcus, why he is. Devin says the same stuff. literally goes, I found myself falling short, I watched you grow, I watched me regressing you. Like, again, I was hurting you and it hurt. This is not about you, sir. Stop putting stuff on her.

And then he has the balls to say to her, don't condense this. Don't condense this. Stop telling her how to react to this whole thing. You got engaged in two months. What do you mean? You don't want her to condense it. Yeah, exactly. This is a condensed process.

So for you to then tell her how to rationalize and figure this out, this whole process that she's going through, and you have the balls to tell her, don't do this, don't do that, don't react this, but you don't get to dictate that because you walked out on her the day after she proposed to you. And by the way, buddy, you got on a knee and proposed right back to her. The next day, everything changed because you were exhausted and like, who, I won, bye. Yeah, I'm going back to Houston, baby, and I got lots lined up. It would have made more sense if he was this manipulative and, like, capable of all of this, that he would have understood what he was walking into tonight and had a different game plan.

Like, you would have thought that he would have, and for Jen's sake, thankfully, he didn't, but he would have thought that he would have gas litter and, like, made some shit up on the spot and said that she was terrible to him and thrown it out there. Like, if that's how he was, because that's how he played the game the entire time, why wouldn't you go into it like that? Like, at this point, who the fuck cares? Well, again, thankfully, not for Jen, but like. I think that honestly, he just did not know.

I don't think he had the capacity to, like, map it out. I think that there was no game plan to be able to walk in there successfully. So instead, he tries to take the blame, but with, like, a heroic approach where I did this for you. It's like, no, you didn't. You did this because you thought you were cool after you were on the Bachelorette. Also, did you not watch Marcus go through all of that, and people hated Marcus. You did the same shit. By the way, Marcus, again, gets.

All you really had to do is just look it up on Twitter and see what people were talking about. You could have done anything, man. You were doing exactly that. Don't do that. But, yeah. And for them to sit there and have to fucking watch. Not even, Devin. That's what happened next.

But Jen having to sit there and watch it, which that's when I blamed Neal Lane, by the way. The fact that we have a little sit down with Neal Lane and Devin, you got to pick out your ring. This is going to be so much fun. Hi, Devin. I'm Neal Lane. Neil Lane's sitting in the audience. We get the box on him. do you think that Neil Lane's going to say, yeah, no, it's okay.

We don't need to show the engagement since it didn't go through. No, I want my ring showcased once again. Oh, you think that was Neil Lane? That's why Jen proposed to him. Jen proposed to him, and he still got down on one day and opened the box to show the ring again. That was a contractual obligation to Neil Lane. Yes, Neil Lane has to be involved. He gets two scenes.

He gets one scene of the picking out, one scene of the engagement. We have to shout out Neil Lane on the back of the box. Of course, we need that. You're not going to leave that out for Neil. That's really fucking fun. Yeah, that was my blame for Neil Lane. And the final component of, and look, now it's just a fun conspiracy theory, just throwing it out there. I think the producers saw what was going on.

She kept choosing Marcus for whatever reason. I do think that she gets to say who stays and who goes, except for when Grant, yeah, when Grant was already chosen. But they saw how this was going. She kept choosing Marcus. Marcus wasn't going to be involved. We're going to kick him out beforehand. There's no drama left. And it's not enough to just be like, hey, we're going to have you propose to him.

that's not enough. So let's condense this a little bit more. You guys, you're going to break up? Let's just end up. That's just fun. It's a fun conspiracy theory. I don't think that happened. Just again, her reaction.

I think it's more likely that a dumpy dude from Houston was like, holy shit, look at all these followers. Oh my God. Maria followed me. It's literally it. It's literally it. He saw his fucking socials and was like, I'm cool now. Like, fuck yeah.

It's like, by the way, dude, you gained all those followers and traction because people thought you were a solid guy. now they know. Yeah, now they know. I also wonder how that would have worked out if your plan was to go clubbing with Jeremy during this stint. Nobody knew that you guys had not been together

because we didn't know you were together. So you're going out to the club and you're still there. Are you just talking to girls who know who you are? Totally. Using your image to get girls and saying, yeah, you'll have to tune in to watch out

and then you're still trying to hook up with them like clearly you either didn't make it or you're a scumbag he told them it didn't work out you can't tell anybody let's go back to my hotel room yeah that's i can't tell you specifically when i went home yeah yeah but let's let's go to my room yeah yeah he he 100% became enamored with the fact that he thought for this brief moment he's actually somebody he's actually it was worth it for those two months that yeah people thought yeah they thought you're a nice guy that's the thing it was honestly it was probably less than that it was probably a couple of weeks It was two months, they said.

Well, no, two months in between. Oh, the in-between phase? I don't know how long that was. But, yeah, they... I'm just thinking about, like, when people were actually watching it. I think it was... I'm starting to like him. So this must have been, like, they'd been broken up.

So they, two months after... I think they said a month. I think they said a month. Yeah, so a month better worth it, Devin? It wasn't. It probably wasn't. There's no way. And, like, that's, again, what I come back to, I don't agree with your conspiracies as

fun as they might have been. But what it all comes back to, regardless of it, it's baffling to me. me, because we know the success rate isn't very high, that he couldn't even make it through that phase to get to the live event with the reveal, oh my God, it's Devin and Jen, and then do what most of the contestants do in part ways. This isn't working. We don't know each other. We can't be engaged. This is crazy. Great show. High five. Maybe one last conjugal visit, and let's part ways. Instead, he, the day after the mess came off. What a fuck boy.

I'm that guy. Anyway, let's get to some pregoontas. From Jamie Gibbs underscore, should Jen give Jonathan or Marcus another chance? Jonathan, yes, not Marcus. I was actually curious if she went out with Jonathan that night. Yeah, yeah, definitely Jonathan, for sure.

Our medium king. Danya for president asked, should she get back together with Marcus? no absolutely not that's not the answer that's not the answer jonathan sure gives spencer another chance and you know what here's the biggest thing okay i'm going to say this because i forgot to say it during the episode this unfortunately was best case scenario for jen because most people are saying that this was not a great season she just ensured that her career in bachelor nation will continue Whether it's Paradise, whether it's her having a second chance of being the Bachelorette, getting back on The Bachelor, like, she is now completely in on Bachelternation because she's always going to be the one that proposed to the guy and then got dumped.

So this was probably the best thing that could have happened for a career. She got Dancing with the Stars because of this. Oh, did she? Yeah. Oh. Yeah. So this is honestly, I know it stings, but she's going to keep going and do great things because of this whole thing. Devon's still going to be in fucking Houston in his dumbass run club.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Jack Castro wanted to ask how is Maria involved? To our best knowledge, Maria was supposed to be or eventually. There was Maria or Daisy where, like, who people thought it was going to be? Now, I don't know. I figured that there was something else going on here where Jen and Maria didn't get along. I don't know if they were in the, so this is, again, we're new to the Bachelorette, so maybe they were in the same season and they had beat.

and that was a bigger problem. But it seemed like this was like an insecurity of Jens. The Maria part? Yeah, Maria and Daisy. Because Sam M said it and it like it invoked a big like thing about like talking about Maria and Daisy. Clearly there's something there following Maria. I would imagine it's just if you're the Bachelorette and you're hearing from I don't think

that that was just the contestants. I think Bachelor Nation from a social media standpoint was also saying, oh no, I thought I was going to be Maria or Daisy and it was Jen, boo. So I think that that was probably in her head. Yeah. And then now you got guys saying it to you. But again, the guys that said that to you were fucking Sam M. Yep.

And Devon. So their opinion shouldn't matter all that much. Yeah. Yeah, I was just looking on Twitter briefly just to try to figure it out, but I can't see anything else. And one more thing here, because we already addressed it. Jamie Gibbs asked and didn't ask, not a question, just looking forward to Steele's rant on Devin. You got it. hopefully it landed.

Yeah, I think it was pretty solid. Yeah. It was a little lighter than some of my other rants. Probably. Which is good. That's good. It's a later show. Not this episode.

Not this episode. Watching her watch it back in that little box on the screen. Like a Neil Lane. I live in my head for a long time. Thanks a lot, Neil. Thanks a lot, Neil Lane. I hope your sales went down because of this. This is what happens when you buy New Lane jewelry.

There you go. But all in all, thoroughly enjoyed our first foray into the Bachelor world, The Bachelorette. This was awesome. We are definitely going to do grant season, which I believe is coming up shortly. I don't think it's that far off when they're diving into that. I don't think we're doing the Golden Bachelor. We just don't have time.

Bravo is kicking off, what, we got four shows coming in the four Housewives shows coming in the fall. And we also have the secret lives of Mormon wives starting Friday. and we will have our first episode of that out on Monday. Watch it. I do believe it's going to be a hit. We haven't had this much buzz about a new reality show since we started this, I don't think, because Vanderpumpfillo was kind of silly, people weren't sure about it. What else did we have that was new?

The Valley obviously came on big, but that had some recurring cast members. This is a brand new thing. Oh, yeah. It's got a lot of buzz. So we're going to break into it. Guess who's first on the scene? Bros. Good bros. But right now, Rob Bros are out of here. Nice set up. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director.

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