Bros & Shows - Litia Brought Receipts to The Bachelor Finale (Bachelor Finale Full Recap)

Episode Date: March 26, 2025

What is up Brose? We made it to the end of the season and the last 30 minutes of the season was the best half hour of this entire season. In this episode, Grant has fallen in love with Juliana AND Litia. After both ladies meet Grant's family, the decision is coming down to is Juliana ready for love? Is Litia's timeline negotiable? After the one on one time with both ladies, Juliana finally says 'I love you'. Its important to mention that throughout this episode, Litia is exuding complete confidence. It makes much more sense why by the end of the episode. It looked like Litia had it in the bag up until the very end... After telling Litia shes not the one, her reaction was not what we expected. During her one on one with Jesse Palmer, it becomes much more evident why she was so confident. Apparently throughout filming, Grant said A LOT off camera. Such as 'youre the one we should just end the show now" and buying her a journal to write her thoughts and feelings down so they could read it together at the end of the show... Litia brings her receipts to the finale and what couldve been a great moment for Juliana and Grant, turns into Grant being held accountable for some questionable moves throughout the show... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When you're with Amex Platinum, you get access to exclusive dining experiences and an annual travel credit. So the best tapas in town might be in a new town altogether. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Terms and conditions apply. Learn more at Amex.ca. during the Volvo fall experience event discover exceptional offers and thoughtful design that leaves plenty of room for autumn adventures and see for yourself how Volvo's legendary safety brings peace of mind to every crisp morning commute this september lease a 2026 xe 90 plug-in hybrid from $599 biweekly at 3.99% during the Volvo fall experience event condition supply visit your local Volvo retailer or go to explorevolvo.com. If the whole season was as exciting as the last 10 minutes, 15 minutes, this would be

the best show on the planet. I think the real season started with like a half an hour to go. Yeah, that sounds about right. That's how it is. Actually, the real season started with Neil Lane. God, I get so excited every time they show him. And the fact that he's sitting in the crowd and you can see him on his own little panel down there and he's reacting to himself.

I got to have me my bros and shows. Bros and shows. Brows and shows. I got to have me my bros and shows. Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Bros and Shows. I am your co-host, Steele Russell, joined as always by the one and only Scooter McGooter, damn it.

I couldn't think I was trying really hard. I couldn't. I had Skiggity McGigotty yesterday. Long walk for a short drink of water there, pal. Yeah, my bad. That's all right. What do you say we just skip the first hour and a half of this? Honestly, I mean...

Look, I know pretty much every Bachelor recap that we do starts off the same way. Let's cut this in half. This one, yeah, it's pretty much cut in half. You could have cut it in fourths. Yeah, and we're not going to spend too much time on that because you guys know how we feel, and you probably feel the same way. Yeah, well, there's a lot. I was checking Twitter and there was a lot of people saying, like, oh, my God, why is this three hours?

It could have fit into the normal two-hour slot. People like, this could have been a half hour. This could have been an email. Like, I get it. I think that they're just stuck in a time of people liking watching TV like that. Oh, yeah. And it was just a huge event no matter what it was. It's before streaming.

It's the same thing as like the Oscars, the Grammys. Like, they're all like three, four hours long. And it's always been like that. We want things streamlined. Yep. And they had not caught on to it. And it's all just network television. So I'm not going to, you know, it is what it is.

And we've already talked about that. But this episode did not go how I thought it was going to go at all. No, same. Like, until the very last minute of the decision. Really? Like, Braun James, the decision. Me too. I was shocked, like stunned.

And then the fallout from the final decision is, I mean, I laughed a lot. I know it's not supposed to be funny, but it's silly goofy time. I was laughing just because I was like, holy shit. I can't believe it went this way, and the aftermath of it is even funnier. But why don't we get into it, so we don't have to wait too long to talk about it. And we start out, and it's important to pay attention to the wording used, how people are feeling in the moment, because I was genuinely curious about certain things as we're going through. And I'm like, huh, after the end, it made a lot of sense, the things I was picking up on. But we'll start out with Latia.

And, you know, he says to her, I could see you as my wife, which is nice. That's good because she might be at the end. You're getting engaged in two days. Yeah, you know, a big deal. And he hasn't seen his family together in 10 years. So we get the whole family together. Latia enters. They recap the relationship.

Obviously, faith is a big thing for the both of them, although I think that faith is what played a role in what the decision was later as well. Yeah. But the sister, she loves Latia. She liked Latia since day once and she came to the house. Mom says that she sees the joy. Whatever. Mom sits down with Latia. Let's talk about that.

And why do you love Grant? And she goes to the family thing a lot. That's kind of the resounding thing that she talks about. The most in this episode is family kids, family kids. And we've heard from Grant that the timeline, that thing seems to be a stressor. It's had a different tone every time that he's brought it up. It's gotten a little bit more drastic. It was, I'm so excited to have this person in my life and get to know Latia on a deeper level.

She has the same family values as I do. She has the same faith values as I do. That was at first. That was, you know, the first date, which Latia talked a lot about towards the end of this episode. That first date in L.A., they talked about all of this. And it seemed like, you know, we didn't really get into the nitty gritty of the timeline. But the core values are there. This time that he's talking about it, it's like, yeah, you know, she wants to

have kids and you know the moms are talking and when she dropped that line to the mom to grant's mom are or our kids and she goes sorry grant's mom is like oh no it's fine like obviously that's how you feel but it seems like she wants that like right now she wants kids tomorrow yeah yeah and i think that grant might have been on that same page i genuinely think i think he could be in the real world i agree but i also to remember all of that everybody out there i understand that i think that when he talked to Zoe is when he was like, actually, you know what? I do want to live my life first. Yeah, I think there were a lot of truths. Actually, it's a really good point with Zoe. Because the whole reason that Zoe was still there, I felt like, and Juliana could be like a

combination of the two. But I felt like Zoe was still there because she signified what he actually wanted in the present moment. Yes. Which was, yeah, let's like get to know each other on a normal level and then have a bunch of fun. Let ABC pay for us to go to Italy. Things like that. That actually sounds like a lot of fun not you know settle down immediately and do this so letia yeah so it made a lot of sense why now even though zoe's gone why zoe was still there i yeah i agree i think she she embodied what the next three years should look like to grant right what he wanted them to look like but we get into like the nitty gritty of it like how does the home life look where are you guys living and she's like oh we'd probably pick a neutral place which i thought was a weird idea why would you

go neutral instead of pick and i'm obviously nitpicking but like You're going to start in a place that you don't know anybody. I don't have an issue with neutral. I always have issue with neutral because you're starting from zero. You don't know anybody. Just pick someone's house to live at. Go to Utah or go to the East Coast. I don't understand neutral.

Yeah, I don't know. That's a good point. I can see it both ways. Neutral made sense to me because it's not favoring one side or the other. I mean, it's easier said than done. Once you actually sit down and hammer out the details, it might make a lot of sense. Where does Grant live in Chicago? I don't know why I keep wanting to say Chicago.

No, he lives in a... I thought he lived in California. Oh, maybe he does. But he's moving back to Boston. Baston. Maybe. Maybe. Bastion.

Spoilers. No spoilers. No spoilers. But the big question is, if he pops the question to you, will you say yes? And she says unequivocally, of course I'll say yes. And we all knew that. She would have said yes probably two weeks ago. But Mattia sits down with dad.

And he talks a little bit about the, I mean, the dad was the star of this episode, honestly. Yeah, they kept going back to him. Yeah, and I'm fine with that. Really highlighted them. Yeah, which is good. I thought that it was sweet. Well, I think that, like, it made a lot of sense. It wasn't just a, wow, this is an incredible story.

It was also, look how Grant was so different talking to just his dad in those couple of moments that he had, either when it was after, you know, the family meeting both girls or towards the end of the episode. He seemed like it was very raw and emotional. Sure. Which the whole season has just been Grant kind of just putting on this. Saying the right thing. Making sure I'm saying the right thing at all times, making sure everybody's comfortable. And finally, you know, who could have said?

seen this coming. You have to make a decision. You have to choose. You got to do something for yourself at this point. You can't make both of these girls happy. Look, we'll talk about it at the end. We're going to get there quickly because not, I mean, this stuff's not all that important. Grant her dad sit down, uh, our Grant and his dad sit down and he likes her obviously. But real quick, Latia and Grant's dad, again, the focal point from her was

kids, kids, kids, she even said that, kids, kids, kids, So kids is the main sticking point for Latia. Dad likes her, likes the values that she embodies, and Grant brings up the timeline again. Dad makes a great point. He's like, look, everyone has a script for their life. But don't fuck up a good thing because you thought it was going to look like X and it actually is going to look like Y. Yeah, and I think that was more, it was softly telling Grant, hey, you need to talk to her about this? Yeah.

Because, again, like, I can't fault Latia. It's the same thing that we've said about a number. of women on this show, they know what they want, and they're telling Grant what they want, and they're being transparent. It goes over to the other relationships that we see in Bravo. It's the same thing. If one person is being incredibly transparent, you can't then turn on them and be like, well, no, that's, you know, you're forcing me into a situation that I don't want to be in. Right. Because she's not. She's been, she's been very transparent the whole time. I agree. I agree. And I thought she'd a nice job overall with the family. I thought she handled

herself well, said the right things. And Grant Latia sit down and, you know, he says, I could see you with them and, like, all of us together, and it just reaffirms my feelings. And Latia's in love with this guy. Yeah. Genuinely. She's like, I love you so much. It's so excited to hear when you say that you love me. This is the first time ever they even said it to anybody.

I was like, ooh, that's, that changes a lot of things. She stumbled through that one. Did you catch all of that? Yeah. There was. There was. The first time I ever said this to someone that I actually love. No, in that way.

Okay. Okay. What? I think you love them. I think we can all agree that you do love the guy. That's not like a red flag, but that is something that, if somebody said that to me, that I was dating, I'd be like, what? Uh-huh. Elaborate.

We're 30? Can we go, go, what do you mean? Still? What do you mean, Matt? I'm the first. Well, no. The one thing that did, and I wrote it down, because I was like, that's interesting. She's so confident.

Yeah. She's so fucking confident, which, again, makes sense. later on. But in this moment, I'm like, wow, she's not even kind of concerned. She's like, oh, meet Mrs. Ellis. And like, I'm like, wow, she's not, again, it will make sense. Do the side by side with Juliana, who is petrified about Latia and constantly thinking, and like, that's the normal reaction. That's what I thought it would be. In the moment, I'm like, wow, she has got some conviction. In the moment, I'm thinking you're a little too big for your britches. I get why she was, though, now that we saw the end of this, uh, it was

interesting episode but let's get to juliana and uh i had to write this down too because the music playing you played legend of zelda ocarino of time of course it was some grotto valley music when you went to the grudal valley yeah it was very similar i was like oh that's fun it's an absolute jam oh it's the whole soundtrack of ocarina of times but grudo valley is grudo valley uh what else the uh what was it kokiuri forest is that right oh yeah oh my god why am i forgetting you're you're so close it's not exactly cockarigo village uh fuck i this is my favorite game of all time i know and i'm blank and i just messed myself up with the oh no whatever let's move past yeah you're right well we could

be here this is a totally different podcast juliana juliana she looks great and grant's concerned though if she's really ready for this whole thing that's been the only hang up is that she was so from her last relationship can she recover in time to fall in love with grant and she's nervous because she hasn't said i love you and she's afraid she's not going to get there but we get to the family and we talk about gravy sundays do you call it gravy or red sauce sauce sauce i call it sauce too yeah i'm not italian though i know a lot of people that call it gravy no issues with it yeah and if you're from the northeast or philly this is a big deal yeah gravy sunday's big deal and you don't fuck with the pot he's actually 100% correct there but

They start chit-chatting about, you know, what made you guys fall in love. We get the lone wolf tattoo story once again. And mom. Watch you. Yeah. The second season. I woof you. Yeah, it is my least favorite.

Huge wolf energy. Made me want to turn the show off. Yeah, and I like that show. Yeah, I really like that show. I woof-back. I know. We have the screeners. Do we?

Yeah. You don't check your Netflix screeners? No. Oh, my God. We got some great ones. Oh, my God. Yeah, dude, you're missing out. We've gotten some really, really.

We've been allowed to talk about the that we have those? I don't know. I'm going to go home tonight and watch it all. Please don't take them away from us. You didn't know we had these? What? It's on your account, dude.

Scroll down and says preview content. We've gotten some like genuinely great screeners from Netflix. Oh my God. You're an idiot. I am an idiot. Yeah. You doesn't come out for a month and we can watch it.

Yeah. Wow. Dumbass. We can't talk about it, but we go watch it. Anyway, I can't believe you didn't know. You really didn't know that. I really didn't know that. You know what I like when I go to Netflix,

I just go to Netflix. continue watching typically because it's Netflix for me I'm not really watching it's like anything new too down is it too down yeah me had a babe yeah it's just like arrested development on loop or yeah no I get it I got my go-toes is it on loop I get my go-toes as well but there's there's some in there wow yeah do yourself a favor you know what a lot of the time it's comedy specials come up early that's good yep anyway uh to be us you know shut the fuck up anyway we get mom sing now with juliana and she asks her, like, what have you fallen in love with?

And, you know, we get more of that's hard for me to be vulnerable. He allows me to feel that, blah, blah, blah, blah, all the good stuff, all the right things. And she gets to the question, do you love my son? She's like, well, I haven't told him yet. I've been holding back. And if you're not there, are you going to get there? Her reason is very sound.

That I actually agreed with because I was like, hey, you got to get there. We're coming down to the deadline. but hers saying it's hard for me to do that when there's another woman involved because I'm afraid if I say it, I'll get hurt. I'm like, okay, that's reasonable. That actually made so much sense. A lot of sense. Again, not for the show because you want to give yourself a chance at the end.

You have to be, you can't be the last person and say, I love you, you can't be the first. You've got to find that little sweet spot. But when she brought up the reasoning, at this point, I'm still fully convinced that Latia is going to win anyway. So was I. So I'm like, whatever. Like, you know, if she gets there, she doesn't. At least Grant has a reason to.

not picker if she doesn't actually get there or she's waiting for that very last moment right before to say it and that would make sense too but her reasoning was so sound like wow that's normal yeah it's a normal response of normalcy and all of this chaos always hits right i agree and that's exactly what it was it's the reasonable response to what's going on and not being on a reality show but grant and his mom sit down and i don't know if him and juliana talked about it but the fact that he's like i don't know if it's because someone else is involved i was like i was like Oh. Yeah, right away.

Like the first thing he said. They must have had some indication. I would imagine, or he's very intuitive. I don't know. I don't think he's intuitive necessarily. I think that he, I don't know, somebody must have told him. There's just no way that it would go that. Like the first thing he says to his mom.

And mom says something good as well. She says, look, if she doesn't love you, I'm asking you to walk away. Yeah. That was the clip that we got last week that I'm like, ooh, I wonder what that's going to be about. And you're like, no, it's going to be completely innocuous. It won't really matter. I'm like, you are so right. It still wasn't.

It was, but it was something different. But it's also a fair point. But then we get Giuliana with dad and, you know, he sees how. This was the most important conversation of the episode. I did too. Yeah. I thought it was as well because she says the right things to him. And the fact that she asked him a question about Grant and him feeling lonely and

supported, all of those things because dad was like, that's a great question because he has been alone a lot. And he does need that in his life. And everything that dad says about Grant is so sweet. He's going to be a better husband than me and blah, blah, blah. You guys need to talk about everything. All the sweet things. It was just nice.

And I thought she handled herself very well, which is important. She definitely did. Yeah, I thought she handled herself very well in this conversation. And this was her asking him a question. Smart about Grant, very smart. Always great. It's one of those, like, base interview things. Yeah, flip it around.

You ask the employer a question, flip it around that you're interviewing them. It didn't have like a bad feel to it. It seemed genuine. It seemed like, hey, yeah. And we've known, you know, watching this whole series. He's in their path that they've been on. They haven't really had that full breakthrough. They have the trauma dump, of course.

But you see how comfortable Grant is with Latia. And it just seems like anything that he opens up about, she's going to be supportive of. He doesn't really open up with anybody else. So it seems like she's genuinely trying to get him to open up a little bit more. Yeah. And, you know, that might just be him. And I think it worked.

I think it worked as well. But dad and Grant sit down together. And he tells him about the question that she asked. And he says, you know, you're safe. with her and you get this extremely emotional touching scene of the dad saying or sorry Grant says to him like you know

it means a lot that you're here and like I've always wanted to have this moment with you and like share this with you like you're my best friend and there's no judgment here and dad starts to cry and I started to cry obviously of course I did and just the things you were saying to him he's like I'm so proud of you like he put up with some stuff and he's like

I got you always and then the dad was like you've been there for me and because of you, I'm here, you're my heart, and I was sobbing, but it was just really sweet. I got to call my dad, though. I got to call my father. It was just really sweet. It was a sweet scene. I'm glad that they highlighted that stuff.

I was like, hey, guys, let's talk about Giuliana. No, no, no. I wanted to see those two. It was so hard. The only thing I need from the actual cast of the show was the ending. The rest I didn't really give a shit. I need the decision and the ending. Well, that's the thing.

We did the hard work. We actually watched the full three hours. I know. So you don't have to. No, you don't. You can just fast. Fast forward. Fast forward to the proposal. Just get to the end.

Go to the proposal and watch them there. Like, trust me, you're not missing anything. But Grant and Juliana, they sit down and, you know, butterflies, I'm falling for you, or fallen for you. And I was like, well, that's not enough. You need to, can we talk about love finally? And he says, I love you. I see a future with you. They kiss.

And she says, there's somebody else here, but I love you. So she addresses the fact that it's Giuliana that's, sorry, Latia that's holding her up. But she gets to, I love you. Fast forward again. We're just, we're getting through to the fun part. Fun might not be the right word. Fun for us. The interesting part.

It was, I laughed, which is probably not the right response, but it was funny. Juliana and Grant have their last date. Yesterday was a big day. Grant still needs to know that she's ready. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. She confirms, I'm ready. Yeah. That is a great summary of what happened.

That is literally what happened. She's right. It's just like, hey, here's, you know, another 15 minutes of them talking about the same things that they've talked about the whole time. Yep. there she's ready yep that's what we need to know grant and letia they go on their last date which was much longer much more in depth they're saying a lot more in-depth things to each other they seem more emotionally connected in my mind the way that they film this i'm like oh she must have won

because they're spending so much more time on her i feel like the conversation at the end of all of this is the one that i would want to hone in on where they do talk about the timeline again that i think is really what it comes down to for grant but i thought her response was good i thought her response was good because she is convinced of what she wants. Yeah, and she's like, look, if you need more, like after two years, because it had a different tone for me. The question asked, I'll set it up. Yeah, set it up.

The question asked was, okay, I know that you want to have kids right away and all those. Let's say in two years, I come to you and I say, hey, I'm still not ready. And her response to him was, well, if it's for the right reasons, like you feel like you haven't done everything you need to do, you're not

where you want to be. Like, of course, I'll wait. That's what you do when you're in love. now you go. I thought that her response to all of that with the, you know, it depends on the right reasons. I'm like, you guys don't really know each other that well. So, you know, are you going to know the right reasons? Are you going to know what's going on? And we have him and his confessionals talking about how, you know, he played basketball.

He was talking to his parents about this. He played basketball for like a long time in his 20s. And now he's finally in a point in his life where he can travel. He can go do this. The important thing is he wants to do it with a partner. So all the people out there that are like, he should just put. be single and just go do this. Like, no, he wants to have somebody to share it with.

He can go do that. He can pick and choose all he wants. But talking to Latia, you could tell, it was almost like a sense of dejection on her part. Like, we're going to, we'll figure it out. Like, I'm going to be here for you. I thought it was a, we'll see how it goes type of situation. You think that was like a big factor?

I think it is, and look, this is how Grant has been the whole season where he's talking about making sure that he's doing enough for his partner, making sure that they're okay. I think it's very, I mean, Latia hasn't made any, like, issues about it, but she's talked about how this is her timeline. This is what she wants. And that's fine. If you listen to her and she says that, if that's not your timeline, then you can't do that. That's, you know, that's fair. And Grant being who Grant is, he hears that and knows I'm not ready for that. I'm not going to hold you up. I'm not going to do these things. So I thought that his response about like, yeah, you know, I want to travel.

I want to do this and that and, you know, see how everything goes. I think even Latia was like, uh, we'll see. Oh, interesting. I don't know if I got that from. I don't know. I don't know. I think there was enough there to be like, all right, he's still kind of questioning this whole thing, but Latia leans further into the love thing, the love thing, like it's

not important. She's just telling him pretty much how much she loves him and that, you know, she was afraid to fully say it and she was scared to say it and she loved them for a long time. She started falling for him like all the way back in weeks. two, like, all this other things. And Grant, again, like, the way he's saying things, I'm like, huh. Like, I'm convinced that she's getting selected. Right.

It's like, you know, it's hard to know what you want until it's standing right in front of you. And I'm so excited for, like, all of these things that lead you to believe, okay, well, that's got to be the choice he's going to make. Yeah, because it's just a different conversation than Giuliana. It's very different. The tone's different. The feeling is different.

It feels like these two have been dating. Yeah. Whereas Juliana feels like they're about to date. Wait, I didn't get charged for my donut. It was free with this Tim's rewards points. I think I just stole it. I'm a donut stealer. Oof.

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and I even toss in some movie news for fun. Check out the show on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, on YouTube, and hopefully we can do movies together. Hot. But we get to the morning, and Grant is very conflicted. He's on the struggle bus. We get a knock on the door. Who's there? It's dad.

Dad stayed for him, so they're going to sit down and talk to each other, trying to figure this out, and he breaks it down. Latia is 31. She knows what she wants, and she's there for me. I have more fun with Giuliana, which people took this and ran with it on Twitter. They're like, oh, you picked the fun one. First and foremost, the spoilers. There you go.

It's fully spoiled. at this point. Leave Juliana alone in all of this. If you want to pick on Grant because of what happens at the end, by all means, like have your fun. Juliana didn't do anything wrong. And she's getting dragged on Twitter.

I was like, that's fucked. She doesn't know what the hell's going on in the other villa. Correct. So let's leave her alone. Yeah, what do you want her to do? I don't know. And I think that this was again, like, the leaning point where I'm like,

all right, he's still going to pick Latia, I think. Same. It's just enough to give us that doubt. where we actually believe that he's still making his decision in the morning up. We actually believe when he's sitting there and Jesse's like, you only got 30 minutes, you got to figure this out. You still will know who you want? I believed him.

I believed him, but I still thought that this was like a big setup. Like, all right, oh, there we go. All right, we're good. And Littia. It wasn't. And it's, you know, this whole time, like, yeah, obviously the chemistry between him and Latia was undeniable. And we thought that she was the front runner the entire time.

She was the front runner the entire time. She was, you know, we'll talk about the end. but this was, I thought, like, an oh, shit moment. Like, hmm, this is real. Yeah. I'm actually going to get engaged tomorrow. I am actually today. Yeah, we'll see how it goes.

I am actually going to see, you know, the person that I'm going to at least spend, you know, a year with probably. Six months to a year. Six months to a year. Until Bachelor in Paradise starts. And, like, who do I want to do that with? Do I want to do it with somebody who's going to be fun, who I'm going to actually have a good time with? Or am I going to do it with somebody who wants to have kids and kids? two years and wants to move into the suburbs.

Which, by the way, isn't, like, the way you're framing it is to make it sound negative. It's not. That's just what Latia wants. That's what I think about Latia. Like, she's known what she's wanted and she's told Grant, but she's made it very clear. He's been like, yeah, you know, I can see that. And I think it was a matter of him sitting there, and this is going to sound mean towards Grant, but it's probably like a false identity type of situation where it's like, I know

in my heart of hearts that I want to start a family. but not yet. This makes sense. And then once he was presented with another option of he could have fun for like two years, but you could go travel and have a good time.

You have this over here. Like this is what you want. You want the suburban home. You want the wife. You want the nice mother. You want to have kids with this woman. But over here, you can go travel.

You can have a good time. She's a lot of fun. What do you want to do? And he balked. Do you think that he made, because we get the scene, obviously, and we'll talk about it at length.

but do you think that he regrets the decision to all? No. I don't think so either. Again, like, what it comes down to for me is it's a TV show. No, it's... You even said, like, it's... I'm not even going to talk about, like, all of, like, the promises and stuff that he made to Latia, which we'll talk about in a bit, way more in depth.

In a nutshell here, I do think it is like, yeah, this is a TV show. Why not just, like, reap the benefits and have some fun? I don't think that's what he did. No? I don't think he said, I'm going to... reap the benefits and have fun. I think he made a selection based on what he wanted in the moment. I don't know if it's going to shift. But again, you're making it sound like Juliana's like this whatever. Like, yeah, let's go have fun and go fuck yourself. I don't think that's what

it is more of like a whatever. Let's go have fun and see if we have something here. And see where we're going to go from this. Again, is the normal aspect of life. Yeah. Yeah, I met this girl. She's a lot of fun on a game show on TV where we're, you know, we got engaged, but like not really. I'm curious if they're still going to be engaged. Some people do actually get married. Then they get divorced. There's still some people together. I'm just. I'm just. I'm just curious when we check in with them, you know, in six months to a year where they're going to be at, I hope that they're still together

and that will get everybody to be like, oh, okay. But until then, he's got some things to answer for because we get Latia and Grant. And again, her confidence was just astounding to me. Yeah. Because she's like, I'm ready to get engaged today. Grant set a new standard. I'm ready

to start a family. I started falling in love in week two, the one-on-one in Scotland. I knew I loved you. the loneliness that you have made me want to give you a family so you're never lonely again and build a home full of everything that you would want in a wife she's saying all of the right things I love you so much I'm so lucky to be loved by you I was doing all of this dude that's when I took notice I was like

he was about the cry to start off with yeah I was like well I mean you know because she went first I was like well I thought they were going to do a switcher-reel I thought they were too because I'm still at this point like there's no fucking way yeah then he starts out with Latia They really hammered at home, too, because Jesse was like, you have to let me know so we know who to send first. Yeah. I'm like, good thing or bad thing?

I don't know. I don't know. Are you going to change it up on us? In my mind, the first means no. Second means, yes. That's what I thought going into it. And then Latia was the first. And I'm like, they're pulling a switcheroo on us.

I didn't because I drew a face like, holy shit. That's my oh, shit face. Oh. Well, that's actually what Grant looked like. Yeah, that you can't see it. You guys can't see it. Yeah, it's too small. His face was.

he was just staring at the ground. He couldn't make eye contact with her. How could you? I don't know. It's torture to make these women go up there and profess their love to a man. And then be like, no. Sike. Yeah, dude.

You want this nail ring? Scyke. And it's even worse knowing what we know about Latia and Grant with her going into it. Like, I got to put on a big show here. Just profess my love. And this is going to be the best scene ever. And it ends up being a really great scene. scene.

It's an incredible scene because Graham's like, I love you so much. So, so, so much. Love, love, love, love. Love. But you're not my person. But you're not my person. And she, she,

I feel like you could let her down a little easier, too. Like, the not my person thing fucking sucks. I know. Because then she's like, oh, wow, it's 50-50, and she is your person. So I feel like shit. And, like, her demeanor. switched.

I mean, instantly. That whole, like, and look, maybe this is just her, like, we haven't seen her or anybody evoke this type of emotion from her. There's been a lot of shit going on with the women in this house. Not like this. She has been the frontrunner since basically day one. So she hasn't had a lot of adversity, so we don't know how she's going to respond to this.

That, like, her whispery voice just gone. Instantly. It's like, you fucking kidding me? Replaced by a little bit of some. and twang she was like come on now she'm all no like fuck she's pissed and he says that our connection or i have a stronger connection with somebody else and she's like when did it change and i was like what again makes sense later but in this i'm like did she just was she that confident that she can't imagine having a stronger connection and he's like he's like well it didn't change

and she makes a face and he's like i hope you don't look at me differently she's like Of course I do. Come on now. She's like, well, this isn't about me. She's like, it's all about you. Yeah, dude. She just immediately flipped. Yeah, I think.

And like, I don't blame her. I don't either. I do not blame me. Well, hold on. In the moment, I was like, weird reaction. Yeah. Like, wow, she's pissed. And like, you had to know it was 50.

In the moment, I didn't blame her. I was like, no, I don't blame her because, yeah, you just got like shut down from getting engaged. So yeah, whatever emotions you want to evoke at this moment. I think because I still thought going into this thing, he was going to pick her and then when he didn't I was like damn yeah get him and then she was like damn yeah I wrote

all right damn yeah see exactly so I like I didn't blame her in the moment I'm like were we watching the same show because I don't see this I don't see Juliana getting picked then my wheels start going and I'm like is he going to pick anyone is he going to walk because even Jesse's like is he going to walk away single as a lone wolf

that's what I thought he's going to do is he really is this leading up to now we have two straight bachelor at bachelor's seasons where we have no engagement transing with no engagements. Everybody's alone. Everybody's pissed off at each other because that's kind of funny. I kind of like that.

Yeah, I mean, it's sad for them. But I still didn't think he was going to pick Juliana. I didn't either. I was so, this whole scene threw me for such a loop. And she's like, I think I got my answers. You're different than I thought. I was like, holy shit. She's not saying a lot, but she's saying so much.

And it's landing. I'm like, ooh, ooh, ooh. Every time she says something else, I'm like, I'm feeling it at home and she ends it with Juliana's a beautiful woman and deserves love but I've had a lot of questions

if I were her because of things that you said to me and I was like that's when my brain started I'm like okay the confidence coming into this the reaction here I was like what was said behind closed doors

I didn't even think about that I was still thinking like again like we were watching the show and it was very clear and cut that you were going to get picked so something clearly did change and was it like talking to his dad or whatever it may have been

and I was like like to be fair Lettia this is the show he has to make a decision at the end I was like all right you have to be somewhat prepared to like not get selected that's what I thought

and the fact that she was so blindsided I'm like all right like I get it I get it based on what was said to you but at the same time because it's a TV show I was like look get your licks at him have Adam tear apart I thought his damage control was basically just, like, pretty much what he's done the whole season.

He was trying to... I don't want to look bad. Yeah, well, he still make me look bad. I know that I'm going to look bad in this moment, but, like, don't. And again, still, I'm like, all right, like, he didn't pick you. And that's, it's all right. Until later. Yeah, until later that I'm like, all right.

Okay, yeah, what the fuck, dude, a little too much. But as they're walking, like, he's still trying to get to the bottom of it. Like, you can tell they're probably supposed to, like, cut it at this point, but he's like, do you feel like I've been misleading you? and you know the things you've been saying all along makes this so much She's like she literally goes

Come on now again She's like the things you've been saying all along Make this so much more devastating And the switch up is crazy Again In the moment I'm like the switch up's not crazy The confidence is crazy

The fact that you couldn't imagine I'm picking somebody else But again my brain's going now Did he say something to her In the fantasy suite or something? Yes he did like did like did he convince her that like they were fully in love and then you know she ended up going a little further with him than she would have liked no she would have said that

yeah so yeah she would have said you made me compromise my christian valor my Mormon value that would have been a whole different it would have been an entire situation of like all right grant you seem like a great dude this is your opportunity to show everybody that dudes can be good and then you end up being a scumbay yeah he's still kind of still he's not full scumbag in my in my mind i don't think so either i still have some questions about it i'll explain my stance on it but he does we get to the aftermath he does set dudes back a little bit yeah do you want to just talk about lettia's because she does sit down with jesse right now before we get back now let's just wrap this whole thing and then get to the final all right so letia she's in the car the slow drive

away she's staring back and she's like okay what a surprise but the one nice thing she says at the end is I hope I can find someone to love me like that forever. I was like, all right. So that was kind of sweet. I wrote Next Bachelorette question mark. After that performance, she could easily be the next Bachelorette. It depends. Because I had Zoe potentially, but she's going to Bachelorette.

She doesn't seem very interested in getting married right now. No, but she definitely seems interested in getting a paycheck and going to Bachelor in Paradise. For sure. Which fine, dude. Does anybody ever said no? No, I would imagine before they invite them on to the final, the finale, they're probably like, hey, you're good to go from Paradise, right? Yeah, I'm going to hold on to Latia potentially being Bachelorette.

Yeah, I can see it, to the conversation that we're going to have. That's fair. But you get Latia and Palmer, and she's like, it still doesn't make sense. I feel like the rug was pulled out from under me. And she starts to get into it a little bit here, because this is where she's sitting down in real time. It's after everything it happened, so we're live from New York, not really. L.A. I know, it was Saturday Live, Joe.

Keep up, come. Good one. But we're going to tie it in, different network. Thanks, dude. Everything. Thanks, bro. I like the big wolf on the back of here. Oh, yeah.

This is a very animated, when I was writing things down, wolf. Well, after that scene with her and Grant, I literally was on my couch, like, like, making it. I was like, oh, God. And then the funnier part is after this scene with Jesse. and her, I'm like, I don't fucking care about the rest of this show. Just get Grant out here to talk to Latia.

I don't care who got picked. Just fast forward through it. But let's get into everything she said, because this changes a lot about the season, a lot about Grant, a lot about information that we were privy to because as they've been talking throughout the entire season, she says, everything he said about it is it would be us.

The day before the proposal, as he was walking away from her, she said to him, oh my gosh, I'm getting engaged tomorrow. And he said, I know, so excited, love, love, love, which... That always means good things. Yeah, if all of her references to the Heartbreak Kid have taught us anything, love, love, love is not I love you. So that's an important distinction that we caught there,

but she says that she loves parts of Grant that he chose to show her. But I learned a lot about him that day, and he made the right choice. I'm still reeling. I'm still wondering what's up. I'm still, and thank God, Jesse asks her, you said you're different than I thought. Why? And then you get everything.

Because as you said, you cannot fault Latia for being up front and honest from day one. Yep. These are my values. This is what I want. I want it now. Religious values. Want family.

Want it now. Right? Did we ever deviate from that point? Nope. No. Because of that, she says the timeline was discussed. We talked about it multiple times. We talked about it early on.

So during this journey, clearly it changed or shifted without me knowing because there was a different tone to it. Yeah. I will say this, because I'm going to try to devil's advocate this as much as I can, that's not unfeasible that throughout this process at some point is like, you know what, I'm really not ready for kids. Yeah. That being said, because of you. your conversations with her up until that point and you are quote unquote trying to find your wife maybe talk about that could have been yeah and and I don't know the way the show goes you can always point to well there wasn't enough time to talk about that there was they made it

clear that they talked a lot yeah you guys talked a lot you had two separate one-on-ones you had all of the time that you had the dominican face times with mom you face time with mom at that one one-on-one towards the end so the whole thing that she paints is that he was telling her from day one and just kept upping the ante, upping the ante. She would pump the brakes and he would step on the gas. Which, again, this is where a little bit of doubt creeps into my mind, though. We don't have footage of that. How do we not have footage?

These shows are so goddamn long. We get nothing from that? Maybe that's the Bravo in us that's, like, expecting to see it. It could be, and look, we expect to see it right then and there. If she's going to break that fourth wall and say, yeah, we talked about all the time, we expect the producers to be like, here's here's a clip. Production should. Production should be doing that.

I'm not going to blame her. Because they didn't. A little doubt does creep in my mind. And what we've seen in the conversations that we've seen the whole time with Latia, she has been very strong in her convictions. Grant has matched it. So the fact that she's saying he was upping the ante. I'm like, I haven't seen that.

I could see it, but I haven't seen it. And also I can paint a picture of Latia saying, I'm so excited to do this. Like, we get proposed tomorrow, or you propose to me tomorrow. I'm so excited to be your wife eventually, whatever. And it could just be Grant being like, yes, definitely. But, like, he still hasn't made his decision. Here's my...

That's how the show works. That's fair. Here's my takeaway. Okay? I take what we see on it. Evidence, conversations, reactions. Not one person even halfway denied any of it. Jesse wasn't surprised.

Grant wasn't surprised. Grant didn't I know and I know Grant doing like the you know what it is not worth it for me to fight this maybe but you're also then giving a lot of credit to him and a lot of discredit to Latia just because he doesn't want to cause shit on TV and that's where I get a little confused and that's really just like what he's shown us where he's not going to step over like even he clearly did the here's the thing for her to say that about her mom just because there's no footage is my my biggest bother in you I know but like that's my biggest issue is we have these episodes that are

way too goddamn long. I agree with you. There is crucial evidence in there somewhere that they're refusing to show us, which is the stupidest thing in the world. Here's some more evidence. Go ahead. He said that he did, and I know it was context, but he said that he did not tell God, what was it? What was her name?

Rose. Yeah. Carolina was dancing on Grant. And he was talking to Rose and he said, I was thinking about you. He said I didn't say that. He did say that. The context was different, but he did say it. Right. In these moments that we're watching, because I like to stay logic and evidence-based as much as humanly possible,

the only evidence we do have is reactions to these statements. The reaction to the statement was, I take accountability. I'm sorry, so I'm not going to sit here and be like, maybe you didn't say it when he takes accountability for it on TV. I agree that we should get footage. Yeah. And that's a misstep by them. They need to take a page out of Bravo's book.

If they had any of those conversations on film, They should have showed at least one. Yeah, just one. Just to let us get the gist of it. The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox is an eight-episode Hulu original limited series that blends gripping pacing with emotional complexity, offering a dramatized look as it revisits the wrongful conviction of Amanda Knox for the tragic murder of Meredith Kircher and the relentless media storm that followed.

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But I'm not going to discredit her when the guy takes accountability. When he takes accountability for it, and regardless, if he took accountability because he didn't feel like it was necessary to fight with her about that, fine, like whatever, then he's just going to have to. lie down and take that. I just don't know when you bring up the context, he could have said,

like, I can see him on FaceTime with her mom saying, you know, I hope that Latia could be my wife someday. He, again,

it's like, he takes nice guy shit too far. Yes. And agrees way too goddamn much. I don't think that he's a bad dude. No, I don't think he's a bad dude at all. But I do think that he over-extended himself

in the moment. It was like, this feels good. I'm so excited. You're the one. We have, I wonder, I want the other girls

to come up. I wonder how many other girls he said that to. But then I also wonder... I wouldn't be surprised if he did that on one-on-ones with other women. But then I wonder in Bachelor Nation overall, is this not a common thing? Well, the one dude whose name I forgot because I didn't give a shit about them having the panel. Joey? No, it wasn't Joey. Oh, I remembered only because the names cracked me up because it was... I wrote it down because... Oh, yeah. Just the first two names...

The Bachelor that they had on that panel who said, I love you to all three of the girls at the last minute. tough that's what happens though in these shows like my and i think that's where people who people get way too carried away they they treat this way too seriously grant's not a bad dude i don't think he's a bad guy i don't think he's a bad guy at all fucked up i think the game the show the game within the show is innately to lead people on because you don't want to sell yourself short you don't want to send somebody home who you have a connection with so if she's taking the taking the reins here and saying, you know, I want to be engaged, you know, I want to get married, I want to have kids in a couple of years, I hope you're on the same timeline.

He's probably looking at her like, yeah, I do want those things. Maybe we don't have the same timeline. I didn't say that. It's not worth it for me to. I'm just doing this in his brain. He's saying that. I, you know, it's not worth it for me to send you home because you're such a strong potential wife for me.

And when I'm looking at the rest of the cast, I'm like, yeah, he didn't really hit it off with everyone. Like the fact that Zoe was there in the final three shows you that. that, you know, he had to pick somebody. Yeah. But with Latia, he had this going the whole time. And I think that maybe to give him an excuse, to give him a way out, he could have had this in his mind.

Like, I can change her mind. Like, when we actually get to that point, maybe we can skew the timeline a little bit, maybe we can see how this goes. And she was still very strong in her convictions. And he's like, shit, I got nothing here. I got to just abort and just go to Juliana. I agree. But here's my thing.

I'm not saying the show doesn't lead. people on the things he said specifically he's an asshole for saying those things oh yeah because he made her believe truly she walked into that whole thing with no doubts in her mind yeah that is for a reason at the day before yeah like what do you want to do in that situation if like you don't you and i are dating all right you and i are dating but i'm dating another guy okay all right let me just put this back and i have to pick yeah and you say to me i'm so excited i can't wait to be engaged tomorrow what am I supposed to do there I still have a decision to make don't get your hopes up too high I love you there's multiple things that that no that's what he did say he

no he said I know can't wait I'm so excited but like what do you want him to not what do you want him to say what the fuck you don't say that it's a game show it is still quote unquote love I just can't I cannot take this fully serious is fine but you also can't just because you're not taking it serious give Grant a pass because he was not giving him a pass at all I'm saying I want to know how many people he said it to I guarantee you on these one-on-ones he would have face-timed one of the other women's moms and said I can't wait to marry your daughter I don't think so a thousand percent he would have done well

that's fucking dumb I know it is but this other bachelor no it's not that's not the show there's what maybe like two out of the 35 bachelors that have been on the show that are probably not assholes oh yeah okay fine I'll give me that all assholes But my whole point is he deserves all the smoke, and he definitely doesn't deserve a pass just because it's like, what would you do? It's like, not that. I wouldn't do that. And pass is not something I'm giving them.

Okay, good. I'm just making sure. Yeah. I'm just making sure. But I just don't know what, like, this is just, it's so funny to think about it this way, though, because it is, it's the bachelor. Like, you can, all the people online always treat this too seriously. But I'm sure it is brain.

He's like, fuck. if I do decide to marry Latia or get engaged to Latia, it is going to be so hard to get out of that relationship. That might have crossed his mind. Well, I think maybe you look at it like Jolietta,

where it's like, yeah, it just didn't really work out. You know, we met on The Bachelor. It's okay. And she'd be like, you know, upset about it maybe if it goes the right way and she still thinks that it's going to work, whatever. But you look at Latia, I get the sense that like,

she's planning the wedding the next day. I think that you're looking at this weird. I think it's a weird show. Put it this way. Very weird. Here's the way I saw it. Latia is, this is forever. You're going to marry her.

You got the plan. You know what's going on. Like, you know exactly what your next. God says that you have to marry her. Two seconds. Just because, by the way, dude, you're not getting married or having kids tomorrow. Okay, so take a deep. No, I'm not.

Relax. But like, it's the bachelor. I know. Just let me fucking talk. Then shut up for a sec. Just two seconds. Two seconds. Because this makes sense.

what I'm about to say. You're just scared. On one hand, this is the rest of your life. Boom. It checks all the boxes that you were looking for. On this side, there's uncertainty. You get to live your life a little bit and see where things go.

But the way you're doing it is like, this is a nail in your coffin. You're going to be stuck forever. It's like, no, you're going to get married and have the life that you thought you wanted coming into this. Juliana represents, hey, you can still go and live your life, and have some fun and you guys are in love and you're engaged and whatever but you don't have to have

kids tomorrow that's the two differences yeah that's what i was saying no but you're saying it in a oh my god if you do that your life is over versus if you do this you're gonna have fun no i think that it got way too real perhaps a show i think that like i i know but like if we if we got like the truth truth serum out there that when they start the season do you actually think that you're going to have the rest of your life with the person that you find here. 99% of them are going to say no. Absolutely no.

And I think that Grant got the sense towards the end, like, fuck, this is too real. Let's go have some thought. That might have been it. I think that's really what it came down to. And I don't think that he's smart enough to not say that.

But I do think that, like, if you can explain it in a way of, like, I think that this is how my life will go if I go one way. and I have opportunities on the other side, it would make a lot of sense. That's the way that I frame it. I was just commenting on,

you're making it seem like this is a death sentence, and it's not. It's just like a very... I'm not going to lie, let's see it scares me a little bit. Well, that's a... I get a little scared of a little bit of a different story. That's a different podcast. Is it the Mormons? Perhaps. No shade to any Mormons listening.

No. Have we ever gotten feedback on that? From a Mormon? No, we've had somebody that left the Mormon church messages, but not anybody that's actually actively in the Mormon church. I'm still so stuck on the fact that they wouldn't show footage. I know. Trust me.

Yeah. Pissed off about it. Well, it is what it is. They've got to get that moment. But that's something that they can... Here you go, dickhead. Yeah. This is what you did to this woman.

Which would have played really well. And the other part of it is that's something that they can take a note of because we're talking about how to make this show better, show those scenes. Yeah. You know, but you could tell that Jesse was trying... He was trying to pretend. protect Grant so much. He's like, yeah, but you know, he was struggling.

And she's like, yeah, but he also fucking said to my mom that we were getting married, Dick. Yeah. Jay's like, yeah, but it was tough, you know, it was hard for him. It's a hard decision. Like, it's a hard decision. She's like, yeah, okay. She's like, should we bring Grant out?

She's like, yes. And she was like, she was ready for him to come out. And she says to her parents there? Yeah, which is awkward as fuck. That's tough. Yeah, the whole thing is really tough. And this is a gotcha moment. It was because she says to him, she's

like, you know, I don't think that you're a bad guy. I think when you started out on the show, you had great intentions, you know, your honesty, your maturity, the responsibility for all of our feelings. But you said a lot of things in one-on-ones. You said that you wanted to stop the show early after week two because I'm the one. If that wasn't true, there is zero reason that Grant wouldn't say, all right, whoa, whoa, whoa, I didn't say all that. Like, after the fifth example, he would have said, like, dude,

I just slow it up. I feel like he was holding back. I wanted him to just like, just talk to everybody. Let us know what actually happened. He didn't do a good job at all. He did a terrible job. And again,

I think he's just protecting himself or protecting her or whatever he's doing. But it would have gone so far if you just like were real in this moment because you could have said, and again, what I'm thinking is... I did mean it, but then it got too real

and I got scared. Yeah. Even if you say that, it's going to be way better than what you did. He did himself no favors. You did terribly. And that leads me further to believe that she's being truthful. Again, I can see him saying, like, we could stop the show right now.

But, like, it could have been, like, someone in a joke. You're giving him way too much fucking credit, bro. Significantly. He bought her a journal to read together at the end of the show. But that also tells you everything else he said was pointed. He wasn't throwing shit out against the wall. Like, he was actually saying these things. Like, that whole thing, the fact that he bought her a journal.

The journal thing is fucking nuts. That should lay out everything else that happened and be like, oh, that does give a lot more weight to everything else he said. It's a huge douchebag move. No, I mean, even if they got married, like, that's kind of a douchebag move. Oh, really? Why? Nags the other girls. What's the point of the show?

Yes. Okay, yeah. To the other. Yes. Yeah. Totally. But again, that for me, it's mounting evidence like, yeah, dude, way too much. You did fuck with her head.

And for all intents and purposes, looking at Latia and how she carried herself the last few weeks of the show, I think she was 1,000% genuine. No, she absolutely was. Yeah. Every single step of the way, Latia, was fully genuine. Yeah. Even during all of this, like she just wanted to have it out with them, talk about it, and do that. But if you're grant, you have to deny something.

Or just let her talk. Or just say something. Like, talk about. Defend yourself in some way, dude. But not even defend, just like, say something pertinent to this, not I'm going to take full accountability. I take responsibility. It's like, yeah, great, but you're not acknowledging the things that she's saying. Talk about being in the moment with her and going too far, like taking that step and saying too much.

He should be. At what he did, and he just can't talk about it. I mean, the only thing he says, that is embarrassing. And this is further confirmation. He's like, I regret speaking too early. I didn't know how conflicted I would get. That I believe, like, I don't think that he said everything like, this is the middle ground for me. because I think he said way too much

and I do think he's an asshole for doing all that and I think that he let her on way more than he needed to because he's afraid that she wouldn't be there at the end if he didn't. That's what I think happened

so he overextended. Saying that, like I was afraid you were going to leave, I was afraid you were going to leave? Like, was she going to leave? No, but I think that more means like if... It's not how the show works.

He can leave. Then she wouldn't be down because he's not far enough along or like didn't get her out of comfort. That's kind of what I gathered from it. But I don't know. I do think that along the way, it was Latia. I think it was Latia all the way up until the last week. And then he was like, oh, shit. This is no shade to Juliana. He chose not Latia.

That's what it felt like. He didn't choose Juliana. That's kind of what it felt like to me. Which sucks too. And like makes you a bigger asshole. Yeah. That's why I really hope they stay together. Because she seems really happy. And that's why it bums me out that people are shitting on Juliana and this. She didn't do anything wrong. She did nothing wrong. She did zero wrong. If you want to give Grant smoke, by all means, go ahead. If you're team with Tia. it, by all means, we get it. Like, we can play the Monday morning quarterback and say you should have picked better people. Sure.

You had connections with throughout the year that didn't make it to the end for whatever. You didn't know, Alex. Like, Juliana, she won and everything. And, again, if they stay together, they stay together. Great. She didn't make a whole lot of sense towards the end for her to get there. She came on a little bit stronger, but, like, not really strong. Not to get engaged.

So we made zero sense to be there. Letea makes the most sense. Letea makes the most sense based off of his own actions. That's the problem here. If you wanted something different and you realized that you wanted something different halfway through or towards the end, you pick more people like Zoe. You have a Latia towards the end. Then you have to have a real conversation with her. And if you don't pick her, you don't pick her.

It's not the end of the world. This is way worse than it could have been if you just didn't pick her like three or four weeks ago. Or if you didn't tell her every week, it's you, it's you. Sike, it's actually Julia. Having her at the end is by far the dumbest thing he's done. If you weren't going to go with you. The smartest thing he could have done would have brought. Probably been.

Dina. Send her home last week. Yeah. Because then she wouldn't have been there for the tell-all. No, she still wouldn't. No, they brought Zoe out tonight. Oh, for the-T-L-L-O. Zoe wasn't there for the tell-all.

They would have brought Littia out, no matter what. Now I'm thinking strategically. No, but, like, if you send her home week eight, week nine, whatever it was before all of the Dominican stuff, yeah, there's going to be some blowback if she's bringing up all of this information. But there's going to be enough doubt in people's minds, like, uh, something changed. He realized he didn't want that. We didn't see it.

Fine, whatever. You can talk about it. Some people are going to get mad about it. But we would lose focus on that and move on to the Dominican. Yeah. And then it would be, who's he going to choose? Because he doesn't really have a connection with any of these women. There were so many others that he could have picked.

Like, even Parisa would have been better towards the end. What? In a slideshow of their babies. All this did. All this did for poor Giuliana was take all of the air out of the room. All of the air out of it. Yeah. Because the engagement happens.

It's like a half-ass clap. Everyone's like, yay. And it's great small. It's 1,000% because of what he said. Like, that's the, I get what you're saying and I agree with you to a certain extent. Like, yeah, it's a game show.

Yeah, of course, like people aren't yet let on, all of those things. The fact that it began in week two, there was a FaceTime to Mom, there was a journal involved, the night before the engagements. I can't wait to get engaged to you. I'm so excited.

He reiterates I'm so excited to. All of those things. Yes, Grant is an asshole. Do I think that he's a bad dude? No. I think he got caught up. in the moment, I think in those moments, he meant every word. And I think when he got some space from it, he's like, ooh, look.

We can do the, was he just a bad choice for The Bachelor? I mean, as far as entertainment value goes. Last year, it made sense. It's like, yeah, he's probably the best one here. He was the best of that group, but that was a group of personality. That was a group of idiots. Yeah, and Grant was like a handsome nice guy. Maybe his personality just did not match up.

He did not know what the fuck he just went out there. You can point to a lot of moments this season where Grant had no idea what it was do it. Yeah, and I think a big part of it too is like entertainment value. Like he, is he nice? Yeah. Is he handsome? Yeah. Was he like wacky and fun to watch? No. It was very straightforward, very, like the whole time it felt like, which is surprising even more so that he said all those things to Latia because he always said the right thing. Yeah. Right? So it's almost like when the cameras got turned off and the mic got taken off. He kept doing it. He, I think that it ramped it up. I think that it got ramped up. and then like the guard rails came off

and now he was just like love bombing and saying all these things where he was like oh my God I'm so excited about him. Maybe it wasn't like intentional love bomb like the normal dickhead? I don't think he's like a normal fuck boy. I just think he got caught up and that's not an excuse

because he did lead her on and thank God that she like has the switch where she's like fuck you I'm good I'm not going to waste my time with this because and like I really truly thought after all of this shook out after because you know juliana comes out and talks to grant on stage and like you know it's very run-of-the-mill ho-hum as worth it blah blah blah like i do i like her

responses were great to all of that what is she supposed to do in that situation she just said i'm going to give him a lot of grace because it's a weird situation to be in and that's the correct response especially if you guys want to actually give this a shot like that you just need to let it's a game show things went too far i don't think he's the worst dude in the world i think he did a little bit too much. It doesn't mean it needs to fuck up your relationship. We just have to keep a close. I want to keep a close ear to this because how they end up is when they break up and we get

more information because he's willing to talk more or Giuliana's willing to talk more and we hear about it and they go on the vile files probably. They're definitely going to go on the file. For sure. Eventually when that all comes out, we got to see what the hell happens there. I agree. Something's got to shake. It's going to be really interesting.

Yeah, you were right, dude. Like, that whole situation just ruined the end for Juliana. Oh, yeah. She didn't get her big moment, which is sad. And I think genuinely, then I want to get your take on this. People were mad that they were even clapping for them. But why? She didn't do anything wrong.

She won. She won. She's with the man. And it's not like all of these people were rooting for Latia the whole time. Nobody was even, the chatter on The Bachelor for, like, on Twitter was dead. Yeah, no one talked about it. Dead all year. And then everybody's going to show up and talk about it.

Like, they've been rooting for Latia since day. one. Look, I love that she was on my team. She was on your team. I won, by the way. Let's go. You did. It's kind of an empty win. Yeah, see, wins out of yourselves, too. Yeah, but at least I still got the dub. So next year, I'll forget all of this and it'll just be one to one going into Bachelor in Paradise, which we're definitely doing Golden Bachelor in Paradise, by the way. It's the same show. Well, then how is Zoe going to, wait. You're both on it. I hate it. I didn't get that. I love that. I like the idea of a Golden Bachelor in Paradise, normal? Separate. Separate. I don't like it together. I don't really understand. It's going to get weird, but like, I think

for a show which Bachelor in Paradise is their best product. Definitely. Why are they fucking with that? You can separate it and go Golden Bachelor and Paradise. You need to fix the Bachelor and Bachelor and Bachelorette. You have to fix the Bachelor and Bachelorette for sure, but I don't think throwing, like it's going to be fun. It's going to be like a novelty for a bit, but what you want is to try to mimic something like a Love Island, which is killing it. You want to do that and that's your best product is Bachelor in Paradise. No shade to older people, but throwing old people into it isn't going to help. I'm curious.

It's going to be fun for a week or two, and then it's going to be like, all right, this is kind of weird. We're just kind of bouncing. We're losing time with the younger generation people and going and spending time. And those episodes are also an hour and a half long. We're spending like 45 minutes, 45 minutes. It's going to be like, and then there's going to be the mixing, which is going to be fun. That's going to be fun. Where there's going to be like an older woman or an older man, but we'll have to see how the discourse goes for that.

Very excited for that part. That's what I mean. We're going to get the same age gap for a guy with. a younger woman and an older woman with a younger guy and we're going to be rooting for the other one but the other one's going to feel creepy everyone yeah that's everybody's just got to be cool everyone's got to understand age is just a number just a numby but we're definitely gonna we'll start that show and if it fizzles out we'll stop but yeah yeah as far as this finale goes I was flabbergasted yeah I was didn't see a genuinely like oh my god I can't believe that that's how this is

going to end and uh and i think a lot of a lot of potential shade for grant is going to depend on whether or not him and julian if they stay together it's a different story so i they break up it's like all they have to do is make it like six or seven months people's attention spans i agree with that but i think that if they don't get oh yeah they bring up like milestone or two and my big question is after everything shook out after we had the fallout and Latia said her piece very, very well and then you had the Giuliana scene

after the talking to from Latia Yeah. Do you think any part of him was like, fuck, I made the wrong choice? I think he's, I don't think he made the wrong choice because I don't think he wants what Latia wants right now. I don't think they're in different places. I don't think he's going to look at it like. I think he's going to look at it. I think he's, I think his whoops moment was

not ending it with Latia earlier. Yeah, well, it's not being honest with Leto. But I'm so curious when the shift happened. Like, I'm on her side. Like, when did it change? Yeah, because even then, like, was it like that the whole, was it one of those situations where he was telling her because he's told her the whole, all the right

things the entire season, was he just continuing to do that while internally thinking, like, shit, this is a lot closer than I don't know what I was, but I'm not going to change up to her because if I do pick her, I don't want her to have, like, did this really come down to the wire? I think it did. If it did really come down with the wire, then, yeah, he wanted to keep up appearances with Latia in case he didn't pick how he picked with Giuliana.

Because if he picks Latia, then it's just everything's normal. I think that he got all the way to the end, was dead set on Latia, wanted all of that. I was a little nervous about the timeline, but it was like, oh, it's all good. I think when he woke up the last day, he was like, oh, fuck, I'm actually going to propose today. And then the show's over.

because even after him and Juliana, like, kiss at the end of it, the luster seems to go away. You're like, oh, this is it. Yeah. Like, we're not watching you two anymore. We're not going to see how this goes. Like, you guys are engaged and we're going to Italy for a bit and that'll be fun. But, like, we don't know.

Like, we're no longer on camera. Like, it just seemed. They're moving to Boston together. So that's good. That is good. It is a good sign. It is a good sign. They need to stay together.

We've seen it in the past where it's like, yeah, we're still figuring that out. Devin didn't even fucking make it a day. That wasn't. trans season so I don't know that's not a standard that we hold of god no but it's it was a wacky ending uh I'm team Latia uh obviously and I do think that she got smoked through all this and I think that grant my in summation team Latia grant did way too much I don't think he's a bad dude I think he's got a lot to answer for and what he did wasn't cool yeah I think that's fair I think that's that's my that's a fair summary yeah and oh

the biggest thing to take away fucking leave juliana alone she didn't do anything wrong i think that is yeah it's not her fault no none of these things are her none of these are let her have her moment it was already jaded because of everything else that happened so let's leave juliana out of the conversation she's just trying to find love and take a man back to boston also grant sister did not look happy no but i saw that a lot and i got what who cares i don't know like the whole thing is so fucking I mean, maybe she was unhappy at the way it unfolded. Maybe she's unhappy with Grant. Yeah.

I don't think that she's going to be happy with that. I actually get the vibe that she's not happy with Grant. That's what I think. Like, dude, what the fuck? Yeah, you would just say all that shit out of yourself. Yeah, you look like you, that's the biggest thing is like all season. It's this dude that you're like, wow, what a stand-up guy. Like, he says all the right, does all the right things.

You're like, oh. I'm saying, like, he had a chance to show everybody like guys can be good. And you fucked it up. You fucked it up in a very awkward way. Thanks, Grant. And then you didn't even have, like, you couldn't. answer for it. Yeah.

It's just a shame. And like, again, the climax and the peak of the episode was Latia. After that, everything else was, it went from a, from a 10 to a two as far as energy levels. It was like, n-er. And I get, like, why he didn't engage and, like, try to do anything during all of that because he did still have to come out with Julianna. Yeah, but still. And it's like, let me just try to save face.

Let me just try to see if we can get this over with as soon as possible. What's the best way to do that? I'm going to take all account. accountability. It's like, bad move. Not doing yourself any favor. No, talk, bro. Yeah. Like, that, if he had just... If you explained any of your feelings.

Any of it, hey. Any of it. Like, that night talking to your mom, I went too far. I'm so sorry. Got out of hands. At least acknowledged that it occurred. And look, I was convinced that you were going to be my person the whole time, but, like, you know, Juliana came in and swept me off my feet. That would be, you could, anything.

Just say that she stole your heart. Say something. Yeah. Not anything could work. Not I take accountability. Yeah, you should. and then you should explain why. We expect you to take accountability.

That goes without saying. We need to talk about it, though. But, yeah, I'm looking forward to the start of Bachelor in Paradise with Golden Bachelors. I'll see how it goes. So they kept saying the summer, is it airing the summer? I think it's airing the summer. Yeah. So, all right, so they're not spending the summer and then we don't get it.

They're probably filming, like, right now. I would assume they're filming now, yeah. They're very soon. We're going to get some, I mean, we'll get some familiar faces from Jen Tran season. So I'm excited for it. I don't know. It'll be a fun little watch. It will, it will, and we'll keep you guys all updated on that.

Because dudes can be scumbags there, and nobody's going to bat an eye. That's different. It's a different setup, yeah. Completely different setup. Yeah, but then it's also fun because their scumbags and they are called out for being scumbags there. And then, inevitably, after they are a scumbag to one person, they end up hooking up with somebody else, and they're a scumbag with that person, and that person's like, what the fuck? It's like, he did that to three people here.

It's going to be great. I'm looking forward to that. And I hope we get some age gaps in there. That's going to be, I think, I don't. I don't know, I'm kind of excited. Yeah. I've talked myself into it, but that's all I got. You got anything else?

Nope. Well, until the next Bachelor run through, that's our show. Bro's got to go. Are you looking for a movie review show where the critic is at the top of his or her game, meticulously breaking down and explaining exactly why a film does or does not work? Well, good luck with the search. Because we're having fun here on Adam does movies. I talk to you like we just got done seeing a movie together,

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