Bros & Shows - Love is NOT Blind in Season 9 (Love is Blind Finale + Reunion Full Recap)

Episode Date: October 31, 2025

What's up Bros? We finished Love is Blind and we are in agreement, this show rocks. It is chaos from start to finish and we were really hoping for someone to say yes. Unfortunately, love didn't prevail here but we get a lot more evidence as to why most of these people are single. Nick and Annie butt heads, Edmond and KB (Bless this woman and her patience) struggle, and the lifestyle differences in Jordan and Megan appear to be too much to overcome. But the content along the way is gold. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Concerned by your gambling or that if someone close, you call 1866-3-3-1-2-600 or visit comixonterio.ca. Now streaming on Paramount Plus is the epic return of Mayor of Kingstown. Warden? You know who I am. Starring Academy Award nominee Jeremy Renner. I have a swear in these walls. Emmy Award winner Edie Falco. You're an ex-con who ran this place for years.

And now, now you can't do that. And Bafto Award winner Lenny James. You're about to have a plague of outsiders descend on your town. Let me tell you this. It's got to be consequences. Mayor of Kingstown, new season now streaming on Paramount Plus. Well, a lot of you have been asking for it, and a lot of you thought we weren't going to do it, but we told you we were going to finish love is blind, and damn it, we stand by our word,

and we finished, we wrapped it up, and boy, oh, boy, do I have a lot to say about it. I think it just got to the point where we saw a lot of the same themes developing. We saw a lot of the writing on the wall, so to speak, for each of these couples. So why not just finish it out, see what happens, stop speculating, and just see who gets married and who doesn't. Spoiler alert. It's nobody. Good evening, Bros and shows.

I got to have me my Bros and shows. Bros and shows. Bros and shows. I got to have me my Bros. Shows and shows. Good evening, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Bros. And shows, I'm your co-host, Steel Russell,

joined as always by the one and only shooter is blind. What's up, dude? Oh, God. You know what? Actually, no. I was going to say I wish I was for, you know, what happened in these episodes, but I don't because it ended pretty much how we thought it was. And it was highly entertaining to watch these people try to figure out how to be in a real relationship. But that being said, one thing I have to cover right away, you can't get mad at me about that spoiler in the cold intro. You just can't. That's been out for like 10 days at this point. There's no reason for you to get mad at me. I want to hear it. I don't want to hear it. Somebody will. Somebody's going to. I've been waiting for your recap. before I watched the end, which would also be crazy because you would still know what's going to happen. So, we're spoiling.

We're spoiling things, all right? Get over it because we have to, we have a lot to recap. We're going to touch on episodes 10 through 12, which are wrapping up the season, which like, like you said, when you watch those through, you're just seeing the same shit on repeat almost because they have the same fights, because there's not enough. time to actually change here and there's a lot of things like i would imagine that the veil is kind of lifted at some point in those apartments the pink cloud goes away and you realize like oh fuck this is legit like i might actually have to marry this person and it stops being fun and

then you i think you keep having the same fights because no one's going to change like i said in that short amount of time and the things that they do that annoy you are only going to annoy you more, thus leading to the same fight repeatedly. Yeah, I mean, when you really break it down, I would say maybe two of these couples had a chance to actually

get married, and both of them say I do. One of them had a real one. The other one, one party in that one really wanted it to happen. It made zero sense to me. I'm pretty sure you're talking about Jordan, Megan, Allie, and Anton. No, I was

talking about KB and Edmund, because I really did think that because KB was so strong in her convictions and she even goes on to say like I really did think and I did see some change in you and I really did think that it could come around but it just never got there. I thought that she was just going to hold it because I knew his ass was not going to say no. There's no way he was going to say no. This is the first woman that showed interest in him in his entire life. Poor Miss Jesse had to come to watch that one front row. But yeah. But even but like my point is even those two couples, I never in my wildest dreams actually saw them getting married. And I don't know. I mean, this is the first

full season of Love is Blind that I've ever watched. So I don't know how usual it is that somebody actually says yes and the other person says yes. But that being said, like you said and what we said before, episodes 10 through 12, we already knew what was going to happen. We already had an idea of what was going, or at least 10 and 11. We knew where things were going. I just didn't expect a couple of the couples to break up pre-wedding. I thought we were going to get like a dramatic reveal at the end. The producers are really going to push, all right, just draw this out as long as possible. And then you can say no at the altar because that makes for the best TV. And instead, that kind of threw me through a loop.

But otherwise, yeah, I didn't expect any of them to actually get married. I would argue that the early breakup scenes were just as if not better than the altar. The altar didn't hit like I thought it was going to. No, you know what I was bummed out about was nobody did the dramatic altar. Like I really wanted to see the bride getting out of the car walking up with, you know, if it's her parents walking or, you know, somebody or a family friend or whatever it may have been. And then just immediately turning around like, I can't do this. That's what I wanted to see. Same.

But, you know, the two that actually made it to the altar at the end, both actually went up to the altar and waited for the entire thing, which is torture, by the way. It looks like a really nice golf course. But you're really going to sit there in what I imagine is the middle of the summer, which probably isn't that bad in Denver. and go through that whole process and listen to your, I don't want to say, priest. What's the word, non-denominational word, officiant. That's the word I'm efficient for. I'm efficient for. There you go.

There we go. But yeah, like you're really going to sit in the entire time and go through that, which I'm sure it was like a very quick ceremony and then say no. It's not really that dramatic. I wanted somebody to run away, like a runaway bride. We kind of got that with Joe, but look, I think we're kind of just, we're touching the surface right now. Why don't we just dig in?

We'll start with our couples that broke up before the weddings, and then we'll work our way down to the finale. All righty. Well, which couple do you want to start with? I think Annie and Nick, let's go chronologically here, because those were the first to call it quits. That one was very interesting because early on, as we all know, they were the same level of weird religious bigot. and we didn't like them, but at the end of the day, I did think that they had a strong enough rapport.

Like you said, once you're living together and it stops being fun, all of a sudden, all of those issues start bubble into the surface, which I'm going to call the, I'm on love is blind because I can't get into a real relationship bubbles

where, oh, this is why you're single. Okay, I fully understand this. Nick being just a patronizing asshole, trying to say everything that Annie wants to hear, and then he even hits his wits end, Annie forcing weird things and they're saying that he doesn't love her as much as she wishes that he did.

Annie is nuts. She is beyond nuts. Like that, that's what it comes down to. Those fights, I mean, Nick's a douchebag. I don't like Nick in the slightest. I think he's a terrible person. I think we saw more of that at the reunion. Like he's doing the same thing.

It's almost like he's programmed to say these things now. But on any side of it, if you just laid off a little bit, it probably would have gone a lot better all of your big fights all of your falling outs came from you being insecure and saying you don't love me as much as i love you and then getting mad at him he even in those moments tried to say hey let's table this let's have a nice night tonight because everything was fine until two seconds ago and i didn't say i love you the same way that you wanted me to say it for some strange reason now you're mad at me because i don't quote unquote love you

as much as you love me. And then we drop it and then you bring it back up again. All I'm trying to do is eat my chalupa. All I'm trying to do is eat my chalupa. It was such a funny scene. That one just going right back to back with. Yeah, so things got out of hand last night.

And Annie taking the responsibility of being like, yeah, I mean, I was really drunk. I'm going to take the responsibility here. It was my fault that we got into the fight. The fight itself, I thought, had some merit to it. because she was really grilling him about what happened with Kate because of what she had heard. Now, if we remember correctly, at the saddle up party, the cowboy up party that they had before, she was wandering around and all the other girls were talking about how much of an asshole

and a manipulative, a manipulative douchebag Nick is. She didn't really know what to say or think, but she was keeping an eye on Nick and Kate while they were talking while she's hearing these things about what he was saying to Kate in the pods. and he comes home doing the exact same thing. I thought it was really great. It was like a weight was lifted off of my chest. I thought we had a really nice conversation about it. I feel so much better.

I think she feels better. It's not the conversation that we saw. I think that Kate really wanted to have it out with them. Like, are you seriously telling me that you told me that you loved me and I was the only one and you were going to fight for me? But you were doing the exact same thing to Annie from what I understand. How's that supposed to work? That's what we saw.

He saw a completely different conversation. and I think that Annie was right to question him about it. It's just, yeah, maybe she was drunk and he just had the upper hand. She questioned him for a second and then it was gone. That was my point. She's like, he's like, why did you hear there was more? She's like, mm-hmm, but they don't get into it. It goes to you don't love me.

It doesn't, you had them. You can question about that stuff because the stuff he said to Kate was fucked up. But he said the same thing to her as he did to you. Stay on that. Stay the course. Every lady in that ho-down that you guys were at told you that he's a manipulator, a piece of shit. Nobody likes him. The dudes don't like him.

But instead of focusing on the ammo that you were given, you pivot and get upset that he's not loving you as much as you love him because you love him a lot. Everything that Nick, whatever's last name does is amazing. You can do everything, Nick, and I just want, that's the other thing. And this goes back to Brendan. this whole you're not giving me enough you're not trying hard they both did i don't know what the hell you want brend brenda just kept talking about the door that she wanted yeah but it's not like he was completely shut off from or he just is not good at digging into his feelings i'm saying based on what brendon did okay then you take what nick did neither of that was enough so that leads

me to say well you just don't know what you want or you're you're expecting far too much out of these dudes and that's probably why you don't have a dude and for nick of all for you not to be able to bag nick i mean all you had to do was stop getting upset about saying lavender marriage he didn't i don't think he was going to get married to any of the women on the show maybe one of the guys if he found one but i've been saying that for weeks yes i agree with you i'm just saying her big fighting point of you're not doing enough I don't feel the love

I need more effort out of you I especially with Nick I don't understand where that's coming from it just seems I don't get where it's coming from and that seems to be the core insecurity of Annie for whatever reason which like you said I didn't see that because I didn't think even though

I do think that the things Nick was saying were completely hollow they have a whole lot of meaning he didn't really love you but he was saying the cat cameras, he was saying it. And your biggest sticking point is that he's not saying it enough. I think that's enough for Nick to immediately look.

If Nick's looking inward saying, I don't know what the fuck you want me to do. Like, what more can I do here? I'm saying all of the right things. I've rehearsed this in the mirror a lot. I know what I'm doing here. Right under my size queen little nameplate up there above my gaming area, I just looked at myself and I said this a million times. I'm very convincing.

So if that's not convincing enough for you, then there's a problem here. And I don't think you're ever going to be satisfied. That's the big problem because that next conversation that they have the morning after is very funny because I saw it going a completely different way. I actually was under the impression that they made it at least until just before the wedding before breaking off because obviously I didn't watch it until a little bit later and some things were spoiled here and there. But that being said, the conversation starts off fine. Like I said, she takes responsibility. She says she was a little drunk. And then she goes right back into it.

It's just the way that you say that you don't love me. And he's like, what the fuck are we doing here? If Nick is sitting there who's manipulating every situation and he just can't get a handle on this, there's a big problem here and it is Annie. I mean, look, I'm not placing soul blame on Annie. I don't want that to be taken. I think they're both pieces of shit. Yeah.

And I think they're perfect for each other. way wider of a gap than I would have imagined. It's just fascinating to watch. Like watching that conversation the next morning. And like you said, she takes full accountability. I'm like, okay, we've seen this before. This is again, we're going to repeat cycles in these apartments because no one's actually going to change. There's just simply not enough time and you don't have the people here that need to make the change.

I mean, that's the other part. We'll talk about it later with Megan, wow, talk about let me. down what a disappointment what a huge disappointment that was but she got the fear of god put in her at some point i don't know what happens i'm so she let me down she let me down so hard and this is not like a let's bash the ladies thing i think kb is incredible was a great dude jordan's a great guy jordan's a great dude right he deserves his flowers but when it comes to nick and megan i didn't like either of them i actually genuinely despised both of those people so this was fun this was a fun hate botch that i mean nick and annie

nick and annie what did i say nick and me megan yeah yeah i don't think i'm not fond of i'm just saying i don't want people to think that i'm like noodling now so who knows i know it's wild i'm not aiming i'm just saying annie and nick they're on the same like same playing field and i think we've taken nick to task plenty it's almost what's the point at this point like he's a loser i'll talk plenty about him at the reunion when we get to that point because wow and even to further that in in this moment i don't know how anyone ever buys what he's saying i don't know how anyone takes him seriously i don't know how when he turns that voice on you know what voice i'm talking about like he has the same cadence every single time i'm jordan on the other couch laughing

i'm like are you like you got to be kidding me with this shit this is ridiculous the same thing goes for casey but anyway those two i thought and still think to this day they should get together they make the most sense you're both deplorable so like latch on to each other and you know go live in the mountains away from all of us but maybe don't reproduce yeah probably not but i agree with you the scene the morning talk was so funny you know like oh my god how toxic is this kind of way it was it was even funnier for me too because one i was watching on one point five speed shout out netflix i love that same by the way before just because i'm going to forget it 1.5 speed zoom in on Anton eating was I am so upset with production electric no no it's a wet mouth sounds and

like zoom ins nah no I don't that's fair I'll give you that um but I was genuinely confused because it was going very fast and I thought as soon as that conversation started off I'm like oh god here we go again they're going to bring it back they're going to convince each other that they love each other and they're meant for each other we're not going to get anything out of this, it took a turn so quickly that I had to immediately rewind and then I put it at one times the speed because I thought that I missed something. I didn't. It just snap right back into it.

And you can see the look on Nick's face once Annie starts going right back into it. It's like, what the fuck are we doing? You just said that you were sorry and that you were drunk last night and you were reading into things that weren't there. But now you're sober and you're saying the same thing. I don't really understand what's going on here. And you can see the look on his face like, fuck, I can't do this. This is going to be all the time.

This is going to be for the rest of our lives because we're not getting a divorce. That doesn't exist, especially on this show. We are locked in for life. I can't do this. There's no reason for me to continue to do this. And Annie didn't expect that. Annie thought that they were going to work through it because they've been through so much. And that's my favorite line is how much we've been through.

We've been through everything. We've gone up. We've gone down. We've had people try to break us apart. But here we are. And Nick's like, I can't do it. this. There's just no way that we're going to continue to do this. It's just the cycle is starting again. And I'm like, that's the most truthful thing that you've said since day one in

the pods. I've never seen you actually be truthful before until right now when I actually agree with you. I'm like, yeah, I don't like you, but you should run. You shouldn't get the fuck out of there because that is going to be a miserable match up. Yeah, it was, I think I, you know, not to toot my own horn, I just think I nailed it with these repeating cycles. I mean, that's all I saw in those last two or three episodes, which I just, okay. Okay, same thing happens, same result. Same thing happens. It's just a different.

It's like there's a fire lit under their ass, but you would think it would push them in a different direction. Like, okay, we're getting close to marriage. We're getting close to our wedding day. I should probably just, you know, take a step back and maybe reflect and try to change some things so that we're in a good place. It lit a fire under their ass and they went further into the cycle. So it was just more ramped up versions of the arguments and the disagreements that we've seen for the last six. episodes, they're right back into it in a more serious way. And now the stakes are higher for whatever reason. And I don't know what the hell happened. I guess it's, you know, seven, eight days before the

wedding. They're like, yeah, those last four days is pretty much like tucks fittings, meeting with parents, talking about the wedding and then the wedding leads up. If we don't do this now, I don't know when we're going to do it. And I don't really feel like doing this to you at the altar. So let's do it in the privacy of our own apartment that Netflix provided. I think that's the best move. I liked it more because you got to see like a real conversation at the altar it's spruced up a little bit because they don't want to break their heart in front of everybody but i do think it might get a noise from edmunds oh my god yeah i that was that was something i'm going to make you do some sort of imitation of that later so just i will i'll warm up my uh my voice box for that one but

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Season 2 arrives September 24th, distributed by Realm. To your point of this lighting of fire, it's almost, and I understand, and I agree, wholeheartedly, going into marriage, there needs to be compromised, right? You need to adjust, change a little bit here and there. It does not mean changing your whole personality. Obviously, you want somebody to love you for you, all of those good things. but there is compromise along the way the funniest part there are some people on this show that needed to compromise and change a little bit some a lot of bit but when they got to that point where they're like looking in the mirror eight days seven days six days it's like well fuck

that i'm going to go further into my own personality and completely disregard all the changes they want me to make because it's almost like if i do this now and they still accept me in a weird way, I can always say, you knew who you married. So it does work out for me in the long run. I think it's also just some weird like mental gymnastics that they're doing where if they are to break up or if the other person is to say no, you can play the victim. So then it's one, you know, you knew who I was because I was that person before we got married. And two, if you say no to me at the altar and then say it's because of what I was showing, I can just say that's my personality. You never really liked me. and you can spin it right back on them.

So I feel like it's also for the couples that, I mean, all of them are obviously very shaky, but the ones that were very shaky, they were the ones that were like, I don't want to look like the bad person, and I also really want to look like the victim because then I'm going to get some sympathy for the crowd, and that's what I really want,

at least if I'm going to get somebody saying no to me at the altar, people will feel bad for me. Because all I did was be myself. What do you want me to do? And that was the funny part when you watched them all break up and go their separate ways. ways because in each individual group, whoever is being supported by their family or friends or whatever, the other person is the villain in every single scenario.

Like, you were too good for him anyway. Hey, man, you didn't need her. She wasn't good enough for you anyway. Like, everyone's the villain and everyone's the hero. And it was, it was this whole thing from a social experiment standpoint is fascinating. Like, it is absolutely fascinating. But let's get to our second pre-wedding breakup. this one is very fascinating

this one was great because this was my favorite one because I didn't know what it was and we had seen the little clip in trailers we'd seen it coming up we'd seen it in like little things that they were releasing here and there where Joe was in his truck I thought every single time I saw that I thought he was just sitting in his truck in his tux which this would have been really funny and refusing to go to the altar like that would have been fucking hilarious instead it was actually somehow funnier because it made no sense and just kind of, you know, laying the groundwork here. Same thing.

Joe and Madison, same fights. They come out at the reunion or Joe actually rather says at the reunion. All we did was fight and fuck. That's all we did. He got a big laugh around. Madison is, she's just unfortunately in for a world of hurt because Joe is unfortunately very funny. That's the only thing.

Like, yes, he's a dick. And yes, I don't think that he was ever attracted to you. But he's very funny about it in a weird way. And he's funny about the other people that we hate on the cast. So he gets like this weird support from the crowd and from the audience. So it's working against Madison who, you know, I've got some things to say about her when we get to the reunion. But here I think she's fine because she's still doing that like I did fall in love with you at the pods. But it seems like every time that we turn a corner, we go right back to where we were, which like you said is the same thing that we get for every couple.

and every one of their fights is the same thing. He doesn't remember what he said. He got a little too drunk at the party. Then they go and have sex. And then he's not giving her the love and support that she wants. It was a very awkward match regardless, but Madison tended to keep coming back to him. She should have just ripped the Band-Aid off a while ago,

but I don't think she ever was going to. I don't think she wanted to. I think she, and I feel for her, like, she wanted to see it through. I think that she wanted this to work. And I think that she was turning a blind eye to certain things or patterns just to try to make this work. I don't know. Maybe she thought if I can just get down the aisle, we'll figure it out in marriage.

I don't know. I feel for Madison because I do think she was just trying to find love out of this whole thing. And it was sad. And I figured out Joe, which made me feel better. Like I finally, finally, I almost had finally pegged him, finally figured him out. So, talking about a size queen. Hey now.

But no, sitting at the reunion and, you know, he was vibing a little bit. He was getting the reaction in the crowd. I figured it out. He's a moderately attractive fuck boy. So that's the vibe he gives off. That's how he portrays himself. That's why you get the scenes where he seems to understand. Like, oh, yeah, he's got a handle on it.

But then five minutes later, he does some stupid fuckboy shit and says some stupid fuck boy stuff. And I'm like, oh, it's because you're kind of attractive and you're kind of in this realm. So you can deliver on both sides. He's like a Denver eight. He's like a regular six. Five. five and a half you know yeah i think that works i was pretty upset that he had a mustache but he was pretty funny at the reunion so he was but that's that's but he's also pushing his

fucking podcast now on ticot so like yeah he's a loser like he's a loser yeah i always get annoyed of people like that like try to keep the integrity of the game together don't go pushing your fucking social media on me buddy i don't care look at the love island people love island shit pops up now i go right past it i do not give a fuck and we're what four months removed less And we're already over it. We're done with it. Anyway, Joe Madison. That was a particularly weird season, though.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, it definitely was. But he, I, for Joe in this relationship, this was the biggest, like, oh, fuck, we're getting close here. And this was the big, oh, shit moment. I, yeah, and I don't know if he was doing, like, I can't go as far to say that he was doing certain things to try to get Madison to break up with him. he was just kind of nervous.

I think he had a lot of anxiety about it and he definitely didn't want to go through with it. But he also definitely didn't know how to go about breaking up with her. He just couldn't do it. So he did that weird like purgatory thing where he just kind of grows distant. He doesn't, you know, cuddle her. You know, he drinks a little bit at night and then they have a good conversation, then they have sex and then they wake up in the morning and he does the whole thing over again.

It's got to throw her through like multiple loops a day, which obviously speaks to where her mentality is towards the end of this, I guess towards the finale, honestly. But yeah, this one, at least for the climax, was incredibly entertaining because Nick Lechay and Vanessa just take everybody, do your little tux fitting, do your dress fitting. And they were such different vibes. And they were funny vibes.

To watch all of these people, when they're sitting there, first off, one little blurb. Did you guys hear Nick and Ann? Danny broke up. Yeah. Didn't see that what happened and done. They never talk about them again. That just goes to show you how they feel about those two people.

But for Joe, he's like a fucking mess at this tux fitting. Madison's over there having the time of her life. It's like this is my perfect dress. This is my dream dress. And I'm like, if it wasn't so funny, I would, I probably would have felt bad for Madison. But panning back to Joe every time that Madison says something positive about how excited she is, how much she loves Joe how much she wants this to work and then you go back to Joe and he's just like head in his hands freaking the fuck out doesn't know what to do doesn't

care you don't try the pants on nope nope don't want to try the pants on aren't ties like kind out now I don't know I got to get the fuck out of here though I know that I'm sorry do you want me to pull up a YouTube video to show you how to tie a tie no actually you know what I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna go hang myself I need actually yeah yeah give me the tie actually Do you have that tie in a rope? I'll take it to go. Yeah. God, it was unbelievable.

And then playing the Sabrina Carpenter song too while he's walking out, calling him a fuck boy. The soundtrack was solid. Yeah, I actually saw something on TikTok from, I think it was one of the Loves Blind producers saying what they have to do. So somebody must have had to work for like weeks on that to get the rights to it. And it's anywhere between like $10,000 and $30,000 to use them. that song. Yeah. That was definitely worth it. And she did also go on to say that producers do have their favorites and they have people that they don't like. And apparently a lot of the producers did not like Joe. That's why they kind of painted them in that weird way. Again, kind of worked to his benefit though, because I think they were putting him on, especially for that drunk conversation about how much he doesn't like Nick. I think they put that on there like Joe's an asshole. And we read that like, hell yeah. That's the funniest thing that you've said this entire show.

About Nick, yeah. About Nick. I didn't fuck with Joe like you did. I don't think he's funny. Yeah, I can see where like that. I don't know. It was just somebody has to be like you have to find some comedy in all of this. Totally.

You can't just laugh at Edmund kissing the ground all the time, you know? Yeah. Like I said, I get, I get it. I don't know. I just, I think because I know a few dudes like Joe, like multiple and they drive you up a fucking wall. And they're, because. guys like Joe get away with they convince themselves that they're good people

they do just enough to convince themselves and people close to them like I'm a good dude but when the mask falls off and you see how he talks to Madison he treats Madison the emotional manipulation of like for example making out with her after they had broken up after the fact right waking up

and canoodling and then having sex and then go in cold turkey and not talking to her the rest of the like that's who he is it's not this funny quirky dude on stage so is it like comic relief absolutely and i totally get what you're coming and i know it's not you saying like oh joe's great but i can't get past the i was like i i fucking know who you are buddy and i'm not buying the shit you're selling so that's where i was but i do get it like the i don't know he was timing his timing is good his timing is very good his timing's very good and we'll get into the reunion thing too because that was very interesting but the morning after was also very funny

because I thought the scene starts off with Madison all like talking about him and talking about how he just left the tux fitting and she didn't know what the fuck was going on and she was worried I thought that he wasn't there like I thought she was on the phone with Joe talking about it then she walks out and Joe's just standing in the kitchen and I'm like wait a minute I thought he called her to break up with her. If he called her to break up with her, that would have been wild, but also a little funny. I thought that would have been funny. And then she walks out and he's just standing right there.

I'm like, come on. Like, what have we? At least we're having a real conversation about this, but I know how this conversation is going to go. Yeah. And my favorite part about both breakups is, you know, obviously the Addy and Nick one, she's tried to convince him to stay with her. She's like, you're good at everything. Why don't you try to be good at this?

It's like you shouldn't have to try to be good at liking you. That's a difficult ask. And it's just funny because the other side, you've got Madison pleading her case. Then obviously I felt much more for Madison than I did for Annie. But she's pleading her case. Both guys get to a point to like, we're good, right? Like we're done. Yeah.

Can I pack my shit and leave now? And obviously Joe more than Nick was the one who started that and initiated it. And Joe initiated it, but through his actions. he just wasn't talking at all he didn't care he was he was just like all right get it out like i don't you know get it all which but like that's that's the thing that i i struggled with i think when we first started watching it and now when i'm watching it i'm like yeah i mean to be fair you do only know this person for what like four weeks like yeah it's okay that you're you're just fed up and done and you can't do it anymore it's the things he did along the way that make it

manipulative and kind of asses correct so if he wasn't having sex with her and immediately after meeting her was just distant okay and then you guys broke it off okay whatever you didn't give her any chance but you gave her all of these mixed signals the entire time and now you're sitting here just like you know it's just leading up to it it just all felt so real is what he said that's his vernacular the entire time is talking about like after i got out of the pod like i saw you and like the the fact that he mentioned 10 15 20 times that disassociation between her voice and her would have been grounds for a breakup. He thinks it's the smart way to say I'm not attracted to her.

And honestly, you know, Casey probably could have done this too. Just tell her, you know what? I'm not really attracted to you. It probably fucking sucks. It definitely sucks to hear, but this sucks way worse. If you just did that early and said, look, you know, we had a great time in the pods. I tried to make it work while we were in Mexico. We came back.

It's just not going to work. Like, I'm just not attracted to you. I just don't see it. You don't have to say that. Something's anything. Honestly, that was just blunt, me just putting that out there. And it's still better than what actually transpired. So the breakup scene was, and this is why I also have a hard time with Madison.

Because, yeah, I do feel bad for the way that he's treating her. But it's also like, what do you do it? Why are you? You're still in this moment trying to get him to marry you. And it's just tough to watch. Like, stop. That's why I get sad because you can tell, though, because it's fucking love is bad. This is a five-year relationship.

No. For a couple of weeks. Like, this guy's not into you. He's not going to be into you. You're going to get married and then get divorced immediately after. If it's even a real marriage, who knows how that works. But it's not going to work. And you've only known him for a couple of weeks.

It sucks, but just you got to move on. I agree. The pining for the attention and trying to force him to marry you is like, oh, come on. Yeah, bad look. But then I get too. deep. And I'm like, but, you know, she's in her, she's in her late 20s or early 30s. So, you know, you're really deep. Oh, my God. You know, just wait. I'm like, so she's obviously worried, like, you know, anybody when you start getting a little bit older, like, I want to find my

person, all that good stuff. But she has an extra thing. She's like, oh, my God, I got to find my person that's also okay with me potentially going blind within the next couple of years, somebody that's willing to take care of being the next couple. She's probably thinking that her timeline is like five years to find somebody to marry her and she thought she did it whether she had to convince him or not she thought she had her guy and now she's realizing like fuck me i don't i'm back to square one i wasted god knows how long on this fucking guy so now what do i do so i just like that's where i started to get sad because i'm like she must be feeling the pressure much more so than the rest of the contestants i do understand that yeah i do understand that part of it i also want to

understand your part that it's four weeks it's like what are we doing here and i also just constantly find myself going back to my foundational rule which is you're on love is blind for a reason everybody who's on love is blind is on there for a reason you can't find somebody organically the people that stand out to me are like a kb who her reasoning is my life is crazy i've got all this shit going on i haven't been able to find the right person i barely have time to date and here i am that makes sense because she was one of the more even keeled people on the entire show she's an absolute shit the entire fucking time and other people that are like yeah you know i work a normal job i don't have kids i live you know near my parents i've got a good family life i've got a good select group of

friends i'm like well there's a reason why you're single and now you're on love is blind so that's why i keep going back every time that i'm like maybe starting to feel a little bad i'm like i don't know maybe something will work out for you but it's not going to work out for you here I get both sides of it. I do. And like as far as KB goes, like she, whoever gets KB and marries her,

like she's an absolute catch. Like she is so, you gotta be in defeat. You got to be in defeat. But she is so even keeled. She is so patient. The way that she works through, like having to deal with Edmund for four weeks

would have been absolutely exhausting. That's enough to send you the psych word. Absolutely. And she does it with such grace and compassion and is able to take herself out of moments. She's like, you know what? I need a sec. If I was in that same position, I would have fucking snapped. I'd be like, what, yeah.

What are you doing? Get the fuck out of the cabinet. What the hell is going on? And put it on the cabinet and been like, I'm out of here. Find your way out. You know, she's probably an aspiring magician. So it would have made sense. That's a good point.

But she's like talking to her mom and her mom's like, we got to figure out like what kindness is to him. She's like, I had to figure out how you want. wanted to be loved, and I, like, actually think she did that, and he wasn't reciprocating in any way, shape, or form other than crying. So, like, I, KB is above and beyond the MVP of the season, absolute all-star. So should we get to KB and Edmund? I thought that's what we were doing, yeah.

I was laughing immediately because after I made the feet comment, the scene popped right in my head where she, she asked Edmund if he wanted to rub her feet. And he goes, I'll do it. Sox on, socks off, whatever you want. Yeah, Jesus. Oh, bro, boy. No, but like, we pointed this out the last time that we did a recap on this. He does have that in-cell behavior.

And I thought that it, I think it became so much more apparent in these couple of episodes. Because for a guy who was begging you to have sex with him and couldn't understand why you would wait another couple of weeks, which is insane. And you still stuck it out with him. you would think he would be the nicest person in the world. This is probably his first quote unquote girlfriends that he's ever actually had. Oh, he's a virgin. Yeah, he's absolutely a virgin. You would think that he'd be doing everything in his power to make sure that she's good,

which KB did think at first, especially when they were talking in the pods, like this guy's going to treat me like a queen. He loves me. He wants everything to do with me. And he does only when it comes to rubbing my feet. Otherwise, nothing. He doesn't give her anything anymore. And that whole nice guy act,

especially when he was down to Mexico. And he's like, I'm just too nice. That was awful. And he moves on to not being nice. So all of those niceties just go out the window. And why? Because she wouldn't have sex with you in Sylvia.

But there's nothing left for him. He's got that quirkiness. He's running around doing fucking tricks on his rollerblades. And it's okay and kind of funny. And again, KV puts up with a lot of his shit. But when it comes down to what we've seen from any of the other couples, like just kind of trading life stories,

He's understanding each other, trying to emotionally connect. He's not doing any of that. He just doesn't give a fuck. And then he's talking down to her. So it doesn't make any sense. And we get even more insight into that at the reunion, which we're not diving into fully, but I'm going to pick and choose some here and there.

Her big thing is on camera, off camera. She mentions it when they're snowmobiling on, like, episode 12 or 13 or whatever. But that's her big thing is like the minute the cameras come on, now you want to be nice. you have time for me now you're going to answer some of the questions or concerns that i have but off camera you're treating me like shit to the point where on the mountain i'm like oh i thought they were going to break up right then and there yeah even more credit to her because she's able to like woo saw walk away take the night and the way that she described it at the reunion was like i was

approaching this as a trial marriage you don't just get up and say i quit so i would go i would sleep on i'd wake up and i'd approach the day with like a better attitude trying to just move forward commend you because trying to move forward with this man baby must have been brutal and they I didn't have a lot of hope for them from the second we left the pods honestly after that first debacle of Mexico I was like I don't know if this is going to work because you knew the entire time you watch it happen he does some stupid shit she reacts then she takes a moment takes a deep breath and figures out somehow some way to move forward with him for the sake of the process and for the sake of potentially like maybe this is part of it and I think that's

another part of it too like as they're getting closer and closer to marriage those that have not been engaged unlike Joe no comment I think that there's that modicum of oh maybe this is how it is like maybe this is marriage maybe I need to be able to work through this shit and And I'm glad that KB got to a point where she's like, no, this isn't normal. No, this is not what I want for the rest of my life. She deserves an absolute king, not fucking Prince Edmund. Hey, it's Ryan Broderick, host of Panic World, a weekly podcast from Currier about how the internet warps our minds, our culture, and eventually reality.

We cover everything from deep dives into J.K. Rowling's downward spiral to how a cartoon mouse inspired an erotic cult in Russia. Panic World keeps you up to date on the movements, the breakout of the internet, and find their way into the real world. And so find us wherever you get your podcast. and you can listen to audio versions of these episodes. This podcast is dedicated to my younger self because she really needed it. She couldn't keep a man or a job.

Welcome to Brooklyn Therapy. I'm your host, Stephanie Megan. I'm your co-host, Rose McAlees. Every week we dive into dating, sex, and relationships. We are not professionals, but we bring professionals on the pod to give us some advice. Listen to brocotherapy wherever you love to listen to podcasts. Therapy is too expensive, but this podcast isn't. From the parents behind law and order comes a mystery the whole family can enjoy. Patrick Picklebottom everyday mysteries. Step into the whimsical world of Patrick Picklebottom, a precocious 11-year-old with a love for reading and an uncanny

ability to solve mysteries. Inspired by the beloved children's book the same name, this podcast vividly brings Patrick's tales of deduction and everyday adventures to life as he unravels baffling enigmas and solves clever cases. Patrick Picklebottom Everyday Mysteries is perfect for kids and is just as entertaining for grownups who love a good mystery. The whole family can listen now wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, she absolutely does. And really the only change because during the reunion, she does say, you know, I noticed some chair, I think it was actually at the altar. I've noticed some change in you, you know,

you're stepping in the right direction, you're doing this and that, but it's just not going to work right now. The only change that we've really seen is how he reacts after he fucks up. So usually he fucks up. Then he tries to explain himself, but he gets frustrated because she's not understanding, but she's right the entire time, and he doesn't understand how he's wrong.

And then the next morning, he does nothing. He just thinks that it's all good. We're going to move forward. Now what we see is after the snowmobile fight, he comes up the next morning and gives her flowers and apologizes and says everything's going to be okay and then goes right back to being weird edmund which she points out and she notices right away which that was immediately like i think the final now of the coffin she notices like yeah you didn't do anything you argued with me the entire time and then when you realize that i was mad at you then you're

going to come back and you've got flowers now because now you're learning how to come back the next day but you're not learning how to not be an asshole that's really all i'm seeing right now so yeah that i think was the final down in the coffin because we didn't really see a whole lot more from them until the wedding day where they're both getting ready and he's crying and he's got his teacher which that is a really nice story that his teacher stepped up and helped him yes it was sweet he was failing and needed extra lunch or whatever it may have been miss jesse comes in and he's bawling his eyes out and he's just so excited he has there's no doubt in his mind that she's going to say yes which is another delusion that's an issue kb was pretty cool and

and calm, which I took as, maybe she's going to do it. I hope she doesn't. And when she doesn't, it's going to be awesome. And this was probably the only, like, actual breakup that I really cheered for

because they were still able to, and this is just probably, I don't know if it really lasted that much longer, because the way that they looked at each other at the reunion seems like they haven't really been in contact for a while. I don't think they've been talking. When she says no at the altar, oh my God.

She doesn't even say no yet. She just took a little long to actually I started crying. Yeah. You want to try to do the noise? Ah. Ah. That's,

I didn't know. I don't know if he got stabbed. I don't know if he came. That's what it was. No, it was an extra in a movie that got stabbed or got shot by a straight bullet. That's what it was. Ah.

And look, sure part of me feels bad for him slightly I don't really because like it's all of your own doing she no other person would have been that patient and laid it out for you so clearly here's what I need and I'm going to give you so

many fucking chances and even knowing what she needs he would flip it on her you're not nice to me you don't say enough nice things You don't do this. I tell you, I love you all the time. Edmund,

she's told you, I don't know, a hundred times that that's not what she needs in those moments because you were just a dick to her. So now you need to apologize and take accountability.

You saying, I love you is what a 14-year-old kid that got in a fight with his girlfriend would do. She needs you to talk to her and have a conversation like a grown-up, not sit there and cry

because she won't have sex with you. And then you play the insult card and go, I'm just too. nice because like who wants to sleep with that nobody's going to bang no first of all and no one's going to marry that so like hopefully he's able to take this as a big life lesson watch this back and be like oh i see maybe i shouldn't do rollerblade tricks in front of her i don't know for starters i take that one back i've just taking shots now

because look you should be able to do what you want to do and you should hope that the person that loves you would support that even if it is goofy a little bit. But there's so many things that that man needs to get under control and figure the fuck out. I am so fine with quirky people. I love quirky people. They make this world interesting. You got to figure out where the quirky ends and where being a grown up begins because you can't just be a man baby your whole life. Because this is what will happen. This is exactly what will happen. And she lets him down nicely at least too. Because she's a grown up. Yeah. This was a very amicable split at the end in spite of the fact that she said no at the altar but there wasn't any shit

talk afterwards no i think she even says that she's not ready yet but he deserves somebody who's 100% ready which i think is wild it was a very nice letdown he was a very nice letdown he will never i'll say it he'll never be ready um i have not seen one iota of a sign that actually indicates that he will ever be ready for marriage but somebody he'll probably get tricked into that one maybe stuck in a closet or a cabin with him or something he just needs to go on another one like 90 day fiancee or another quick to wedding show and he's got a chance uh but other than that if he doesn't change about 80% of how he acts and behaves he doesn't have a very good shot at this doesn't have a shot in the hell at all and he's lucky he's lucky that kb was his partner

because I think anybody else would have been so much more mean about it. And she was not. Like I said, she was graceful the entire time. She was very tolerant of everything. And she had every right to be rude to him. And she still didn't. She didn't get down and play in the mud with them. So, like, again, she's.

Appreciate her. MVP. Yeah, she's awesome. KB deserves something amazing. All the one. Who's next? Let's move on to Allie and Anton. This one's kind of fun.

There's a couple of things to highlight before one of the funnier breakups after the wedding because that's what you were talking about earlier where everybody starts talking shit on. This was this was great. This is exactly what I expected. But leading up to it, there's a big issue here with how much Anton is drinking. Because even I was confused with what the fuck was going on. So leading up to the hoe down, which I was confused about. about two. I guess Ali had met them or stopped at a girl's house before and then they went

over there. But Patrick came over and there was a 12 pack of drinks in there. What the drinks were doesn't really matter. But there was a 12 pack in the fridge and there's only one left. So that's 11 drinks. He, the way he fucking answers things, he doesn't think that anything's a big deal, but he's lying the whole time. So it doesn't make any sense and he knows the answer to these things. Allie, you know, a little strong. Like, you know, I don't really like the fact that you did that I don't really understand how he's like I had a friend over and we had some of the drinks his numbers don't make any sense because he had to she had to and then him and Patrick yeah maybe we had about four there's still four unaccounted for there's one in there

so three unaccounted for that didn't make a whole lot of sense he didn't really go into that which means yeah him and Patrick probably had closer to four each maybe they had seven total they probably still not a big deal Ellie is acting like this man is waking up in the morning It's you Circa like seven years ago And this is where we are I guess with Allie and Anton She's painting him

As this villainous alcoholic That's coming home And sneaking drinks Which nobody knows with a tequila when I don't know Also who keeps the tequila in the fridge I don't know weird move I heard that one

Yeah that was a weird move But we can't figure out exactly How much he's drinking It didn't seem to me That he's drinking a shit ton It doesn't seem like he's sneaking he even said like yeah i come home i'll watch a movie i'll have a drink or two could be three but he's afraid to say three because she's just gonna paint him as an alcoholic so this whole thing was

just like leading up to all of this and the biggest thing that pisses me off they never talked about the strip club they never did period they just never find out we were mad that we didn't see it here they never talked about it which doesn't make any sense and just shows you where they were in this relationship because that seemed to be such a big sticking point that was the reason they didn't make it. Yep. Like that's literally the, first of all,

I do think that that, had that not happened, I think we would have gotten a yes. I really do, because she was close enough and you could tell they first of all, they had no chemistry ever. The chemistry is non-existent. It was like watching cousins hang out. It was bizarre. But

they were convincing themselves that they were in love and that this was the right thing and all of that. Watching that scene was banana land because I'm with you. like, okay, yeah. And I think he's lying about the numbers because he's like, ah, I don't know if he knows how to respond. He's like, what the fuck?

Like you said, she's acting like he's drunk all day long. And from an alcoholic, like he crushed the 12 pack before he went to the hoe down by himself, just sitting there for being a low. Or before he goes in trains truck drivers. Yeah. Like, so as an alcoholic, I'm like, look, I understand if you're not from like a drinking household,

which her mom lets us know later. She is not. The fact that he drinks alcohol, period, is a problem. But there's different things you look for here. You don't count the drinks in the fridge. You make sure that he's not, are you drinking when you shouldn't be? That's a big question. Not when he just gets done a long 14-hour shift and he kicks back on the couch and

throws a few back. Like, if he's got problematic behaviors, sure, fine. We haven't seen any of it. I don't think she has. She hasn't mentioned any of it. I think this is all stemming. The questioning of the booze stems from that bathroom conversation. Because now she's super aware.

And she's like, well, there was two and a half sips left in that beer. Where's the rest of that? Yeah. Well, I mean, that's, and that's the big problem too, because, again, he's lying about how much he's drinking. Which is a, yeah. So if he was honest about it and her reaction was the same and then she starts grilling him, then you can take a step back and be like, what are we doing here? Like, no.

this doesn't make any sense but he wasn't honest about it so it seems like he's hiding more even if he's not because he's not being honest about it and it was fucking hilarious watching him squint and then look around he's like i don't know what happened to that tequila what do you mean uh the minute she asked him i'm like god damn it you drank it and now you're like i don't know i don't know look if there was a whole handle of tequila sitting in the fridge and that just disappeared overnight yeah there might be a problem somewhere in there unless he's having a party and you don't know about it but you guys are living together in the apartment. Who the hell knows exactly what's going on there?

The way the conversation devolved into, well, look, I mean, we just have a lot of differences in our lives. You know, I like to come back, watch a movie, have a drink or two. You like to just throw your clothes everywhere and never clean up. It's like, what do we get here? Well, his point was like, and I think it is different because, you know, alcohol, obviously a little different connotation than being messy. But at the same time, I understood the sentiment of you expect me to change

this. Yeah. I don't want to. You made it very clear, which is also a wild move, that you're never changing being gross. Clean? Yeah.

Throwing your dirty laundry everywhere. Great stance to take. So I understand what it was trying to do. I think it's different because of the context of what they're talking about, but I understood the move. But it was just further proof. It's like, look, you guys, your lifestyles don't gel at all, not even remotely.

And I don't think, from what, we've seen obviously we don't know because we've seen these people for 12 episodes but for what i see of anton it sounds like he likes to go out and have some fun he doesn't appear to me to be like some crazy wild fucking party boy he seems to have his shit together but he likes to have fun i don't know what she wants i think i don't want to marry a rich guy that takes care of her but at the same time she wants to get her degree and stand in our own two feet both are fine i don't have an issue with either. But she's confusing. She is confusing. I think we get a little bit more insight into that where I guess they were the only two that had a bachelor, bachelor, bachelorette party because

we didn't see anything else doing it. Oh, her roommate's an asshole. Yeah, no. Wait, the Ukrainian one. Yeah. I loved her. I was obsessed with her. She's going to be a truck driver forever. I'm like, what the hell? Shut up. That was so funny, though. I know. It's funny, but it's also mean. it sounds like he has potential because and this is also just it's scattershot the fact that Ali's looking at this like he did say that he was going to open a barbershop he was going to open a restaurant he was going to do this I'm like those are very different industries it does seem like he at one point told you he's got aspirations he doesn't know what he's going to do but he's got some ideas out there maybe a barbershop maybe a restaurant yeah I think that's probably

where he was going with it but hearing ali convey that to her friend was very funny because it was a very different connotation. It was very negative from, or at least it was received very negatively. Like, oh, yeah, it sounds like he's got potential, but what if he's a truck driver forever? He's not even a truck driver. He trains truck drivers, which is funny, but it's still very funny. That's the conversation they had. And on the flip side at the Bachelor Party, we already met his one friend.

I think his name was Joe, the guy who now broke up with the girlfriend that he moved into after the first date, moved in with her after the first date. So that was already a red flag. he kept his mouth shut he was not saying a word it was the other friend who was sitting with him at i think he was at the tux fitting a little bit later too but he was he was like you're you're gonna get married you should be excited this is going to be great and anton's kind of into it so what really just came down to is ali going to be able to get over the hurdle of he's an alcoholic and he's an alcoholic truck driver he's an alcoholic truck driver he's a truck driver

the drinking problem. Am I going to be able to get over that? Because, you know, in Brazil, they expect the man to be able to provide. And we already had, and that just takes you back to the first conversation that they had down of Mexico where he was kind of like splitting hairs about the ring, which we find out at the reunion, Netflix provides the rings. So fuck off. Like this whole thing is dumb.

And yeah, they're going to have an issue with money. She wants to be provided for. But like you said, she's also going to get her master. She's also doing this and that and whatever. So whatever. It really just came down to whether or not. Ali was going to say yes. And spoiler, she does not.

And I still, to this day, when she says, like, you know, the person I thought that you were, I'm like, he hasn't changed, though. Like, you just saw him in the outside world and don't like that he drinks, which is fine. Like, you don't. It wasn't even just that. It was also just that he's fucking tired. And, like, all I'm getting out of it, which is a good segue way into the next couple anyway, but he doesn't talk.

and you don't have deep conversations anymore like that happens in normal relationships you start off you have all these deep conversations and then you start living together and it's kind of normal and you just kind of live your life and talk about your days or whatever that was her other thing like you're not the same person i met in the pods it's like nobody is you're sitting in the pods literally talking to a wall about anything and everything because you're bored out of your mind trying not to go crazy when you're living together face to face you're not going to sit there and sit down and be like wow let's let's get philosophical let's really get into all of this. It didn't really make any sense that she was going that route.

Yeah, I've been sitting passenger seat in a fucking semi-truck all day. I don't want to talk. I started my shift at midnight. It is now 2 p.m. I'm tired. No, like, I, what I summed it up as, and I didn't have any issues with Allie. No, not necessarily. You know, she, she's going to need a very specific dude is what I've gathered. But I also, and that's fine.

There's a lid for every pot. as we've said multiple times. But I truly believe that she, the entire time, she thought and convinced herself that Anton is X, but the entire time he's actually been Y, but she refused to accept that because she had this picture of what he was in her head,

and she refused to change that at all. So when he's finally like, oh no, he's the Y character, she's like, you changed. You fucking changed. I'm like, no. I honestly, I thought they were going to break up when they went on that little sleigh ride. So did I.

But then they got a little closer, I thought. They got a little closer. It seemed like they were getting over a bit of a hurdle. And this was just the classic. She says no. Joe's or Anton's side. I guess it was his sister or it was, I think it was his sister, right? That just goes, she's a cold-hearted bitch.

Yeah. And his mom goes, I agree. I was just thinking that. I'm like, hell of yeah, good for you guys. whatever get your shit off go ahead and get upset you deserve it go for it cut to her he's not the man you met yeah yeah he's not the man you met you didn't fall for this guy he changed when you got out of those pods it's like what's going on i feel like i'm in a fucking twilight zone it is i mean we've reached the point with reality tv and content

because there's so much out there we truly live in a time frame that like yeah like black mirror shit happening in real life. That's where we're at. So genuinely is. Yeah, Skynet coming soon. It's coming soon. But yeah, very good segue into, you know, we don't really have those deep conversations anymore.

I want to talk about my day more going into Megan and Jordan, who we already said Jordan was probably the most consistent. The only bad thing he did in my eyes was the chicken breast and crystal light. That was otherwise, I think he was pretty straightforward. But you could tell right away, I think it was. the first scene that they were in at episode 10 or 11 maybe talking about the house again where Megan walks in and says yeah you know I saw another house that's not going to be ours I just didn't really like it they're going house hunting separately nope that's going to work

weird move it's a very weird move very very weird move and like I said they're a whole issue because at this point Megan had just met Lucas she really liked them but she was a little scared about this whole thing you know it's a little frightening to have somebody who's got diabetes who you have to be aware of at all times you know just kind of merging into this family which by the way reasonable very reasonable fears going into all of this you know everything three weeks ago yeah three weeks ago i think meeting them and like spending the night i think it's okay that she can talk about it and it didn't seem like she was like i don't want it even if she did deep down she didn't do the Casey I'll give her that you're right

Casey was I'm not attracted to this guy but I'm not going to tell him that I'm just going to tell the producers that and then he'll find out about it later I'm going to tell America yeah Megan didn't do that at least but we all kind of know that deep down yes and it's a money issue yes you know maybe it's a lifestyle issue but also yeah there's a huge part of that where you are burging into a family and you have to be a stepmom and you don't really know if you can handle that and that's okay it's completely fine but you didn't say it to us so that's okay by me the rest of of it isn't really because like you said three weeks ago this was a problem three weeks ago

you knew that he's not as well off as you are wealth wise three weeks ago you knew that he has to work and he has to take care of his son so at the end of the day he's pretty fucking tired because he told you all of these things now you can see her just start to nitpick as we get a little closer to that wedding date ah you know i just i want to be able to just have more of a conversation with you than you just saying yes or no or i don't know or walking away i just I want to sit down and really talk, like, philosophically, like we used to. It's like, what are you doing? What do you mean?

Going back to the pods is not, it's not an option anymore. I think there's a, like, that's the stuff where there's a middle ground for me. There's certain things that she did and the way she handled things that I don't care for. Now when it comes to that stuff, what a fall off. Yeah, because of just what ends up happening with her current situation. and then he just, I got a lot to say later. But with that stuff, like, I get where she's coming from. Like, even if your partner's tired, like you would hope that there be conversations.

I also understand what Jordan's coming from. Like, long day, don't have the energy. There's a middle ground there. And he was not really giving at all. He was trying to get her to compromise. But, like, there was compromise, I think, from his side that needed to be there, too. That, to me, when they had that conversation, it seemed like, that wasn't the only issue

going on at that moment. It seems like they're clearly starting to butt heads over certain things. And look, she's used to a certain kind of lifestyle. That's fine.

That's fine. Right? She worked her ass off to get where she is. She wants to enjoy the money. She has great. He was pretty clear throughout the entire process

about where he stands with this stuff. He was pretty forward with, look, I'm not going to mooch off of you one and two like this is what my life looks like I'm a normal fucking dude I got a kid I work a lot I'm tired at night I don't do a lot of extracurriculars and you know she's like she's like well I do like to play tennis and I do like to play golf he's like great I can't leave work at 10 am to fucking play tennis yeah like yeah so you're starting to see

like my five year old to Italy for two weeks because you want to go to Italy for two weeks And I thought that those were all very reasonable statements by Jordan. And again, he's been saying that the whole time. So this kind of just goes back into the change aspect. Like maybe I'll wear him down. Maybe, you know, when I show him all of this, I talk about selling my home in L.A. to move closer to here and buying a bigger house for us. He'll be able to just see that this is how life can be.

And he's like, I don't want to get a fucking nanny. I want to be there for my son. I want to be able to raise my son. And I don't want somebody else coming in to help. And by the way, I can't afford that. And she's like, well, we can afford that. He's just never going to see that line of thinking. And he never has.

He's never indicated like, oh, yeah, maybe, you know, once we get married and we figure all these things out, we can kind of just see how life looks after that. Like, he never once really said that. So her nitpicking in this moment, that's what tells me right away. She's already kind of made up her mind. She doesn't really want to go through with this. It's not really going to work out, but she tried it. It's sort of like what KB said.

Like it's a trial by marriage. See how this goes. You know, we'll live together. If we can get there, that would be great. If not, it's not the end of the world. And I think that's a practical way to look at it. I just don't really care for how she went about it. She wasn't very honest about it.

She tried to do the old, I'm trying to give you all of these nice things and you're turning me down. This is a you problem. It's like, no, no, he's told you this the entire time. He hasn't really changed his mind on any of these things. You can't now paint him as the person that's going to ruin this whole marriage. It's still you or it's both of you. But like the best you can hope for is it's a mutual agreement. It's just part.

right and i think there's there should be more give on jordan's like i understand if you're prideful whatever but like if you do get married and she is comfortable with letting you live a more lavish lifestyle on her behalf i think that you should swallow your pride and just like find a way to compromise there yeah but when it comes to the conversation they had at the end he said one thing where i was like that's probably going to stick with her for the rest of her life and i hope it does because he says he's like all of your exes were that exactly what you're saying you want they were all like that which is why you picked me and I'll be damned if when she's sitting on that stage looking at her current boyfriend father of her child who looks probably the same

as every other dude that she's dated in the real world you know like as soon as I saw it was like yeah that's the guy of course that's exactly what I would expect yeah Yeah. You're going to do the same shit. You're going to live the same. Like this was honestly, and this is what I was talking about with like reverting back into patterns. And you can you can say Jordan did the same thing as well. He's comfortable in this quiet life. He refused to think about, well, what if I step out of this? What if I do open up a little bit, which is his fault. And I, that's why this one I do feel is more mutual. I think this is. It's way more mutual. Pretty 50.50 when you look at it. It was definitely the right move to. Yeah. You can say yes, Megan did walk in. You know, it was the last scene. that we got from the finale. Megan walks in before the ceremony. They don't want to embarrass. They don't want to go through the whole thing in front of everybody. Let's just sit down right now like adults and just talk through this whole thing.

The lifestyle differences are just, we're too apart on this. You know, you've got a very simple lifestyle. You've got a very simple every day. I want to go do all these things. I worked really hard. And then she does the trauma dump at the end to try to get some sympathy. You know, I don't know if I can ever be a mom. I can't be a stepmom.

I can't do this. Lo and behold, first scene of the reunion, Megan had a kid. And yes, I do think it's pretty fucking wild that they filmed the reunion a year after. And this was also, this was a problem for me in particular. You guys were very tight-lipped about everything. Like, nothing came through. And even Megan goes into great detail about she had a baby shower.

She told her friends, no phones, nothing was going to go on there. The whole NDA of it all, a week or maybe at least a couple of days before the reunion aired, there were already people talking about Joe and Casey actually hooked up and they were dating for a little while. Megan was pregnant. She's spotted over here doing this and that. She's got a new boo and it's this guy who's sitting in the audience. So we already knew all of these things. If you're on social media, you saw this just before the reunion air.

Like, if you're that tight-lipped for an entire fucking year, that should leak a day or two. Like, that's incredible to me. But either way, yeah, it was avocable. And I do think Jordan at the reunion starting. off right away did feel like yeah this was never really going to work out but he did know it I thought that was kind of interesting too somebody must have DMed him and told him like hey do you know that Megan's pregnant he said he got a disgusting DM from somebody about it disgusting DM which is the best way to put it by the way that's that's the most like normal guy response ever it's just like

yeah I got a disgusting DM from somebody who doesn't even fucking know me telling me that Megan's pregnant she's having a baby I don't fucking care I reached out tour. We had a good conversation. We went back and forth. It was much better to do it that way than sitting here in the audience and listening to it right now. But we're good. There's no reason to really have any animosity. And that was so nice, too, because the way that they ended it, yeah, it was a little clumsy. It was a little messy on Megan's part. But it seems like they're in a fine place now. The rest of them, you know, we'll get into. But that one's starting off. I'm like, okay, big reveal. You've got a baby. Kind of expected it. Fine. That looks exactly

I feel like the guy that you would be dating. Jordan's okay. He's not really worried about it. He'll be fine. And I think where I took issue is like, you know, the demands of being a mom and like the real world, the realities really hit me, you know, which really pisses me off again. It's like, okay, after you met his kid, now the realities hit you. Because, you know, I was a single dad for a little while. And that is fucking scary to introduce your kid.

somebody and for it to be like that fast in and out that's irresponsible on her part all of the things that caught up to you after that should have been more discussed and that's on jordan too for you know i would have waited this is such an impossible thing it's like here's your new stepmom yeah i don't introduce them but like to say all of that right and i don't have anything really against megan but to say all of that i'm not ready to be in i'm not ready for this not ready for that And then you have a fucking baby. So you were. So that tells me this is all just lifestyle.

And now I'm questioning, did you use the kid as an excuse that you weren't ready rather than just saying you're not rich enough for me? Because you have a kid now. So all the things you were quote unquote worried about, poof, they're gone. Why? Because there's a nanny. Because there's a nanny. There's a country club.

Everything's going to go play tennis. Come on, guys. so let's get into the probably the most fun part of the reunion and that's joe and madison this was unbelievable with the reveals and back and forth and again i think that joe being i don't want to call him a fan favorite but him being funny and people finding him funny is the worst thing that could happen to madison because madison's still very butt hurt about this whole thing and we do find yeah it's a year later which you know kind of goes to what i was saying earlier like come on they really we're really doing this but i kind of i do get it because obviously

she reveals that they did have a drink or two afterwards and try to talk about it gets a closure and then he made out with me that's part for the course of the relationship was that he was crying but he wasn't able to cry before and his reasoning is yeah you know i just i need some time to just collect my thoughts before i could really cry i'm not good at cry what shut up yeah i'm not good crying is what he says. But the big reveal as we get a couple of our friends coming back to the stage is that Casey was involved in this. A couple of weeks after they broke up, Joe and Casey started up. When did that start apparently right at or right before the ceremony when, or actually before the tux fitting, I guess it was, when they were doing, I guess it was a bachelor, bachelorette party.

It's the night of the tux fitting after the tux fitting. So it was after the fox. Whoa. Whoa, after the fuck's hitting. After the fuck's kidding. Whoa. That one's awesome. That's incredible. But yeah, so apparently, from Madison's perspective, that's when it started. Because Casey, Casey's just being accused of going after every guy on this show, which I can see, for sure.

I mean. Putting her paws on him and talking to him. And this was right after he had a breakdown in his truck and he was done with everything. So he goes to let Lou. he doesn't tell Madison at all what's going on. That was her big sticking point. Why didn't you come to me after this and say you had a whole breakdown and that you weren't going through at the wedding?

He was like, I just really just wanted to focus that night on having a couple of drinks with my friends and just letting loose and relaxing. And then I was thinking about that conversation. Yeah. What a dumbass. Yeah, what a dumbass. But him and Casey end up dating for about a month and a half.

They go on a bunch of dates. And this is where it just gets very confusing because, now we're turning into like swingers is blind i i guess that's what we're calling this they were all just canoodling behind the scenes i guess when they got back to denver at mike's pool party which mike wasn't there thankfully i don't really need to hear from him but he did have a pool party and he had everybody over and this is when i guess joe and uh casey were done with their little fling and madison was there madison had heard about it because of kate but joe is dating one of kate's friends currently joe's there with avery so now

Casey's crying in the corner, but Casey's like, I wasn't crying about that. It's like, oh, okay. Yeah, but Madison's like, yeah, you know, apparently Madison struck first, according to Casey, just kind of going after her. And Casey responded with, well, we're Eskimo sisters now, which is very funny. No, she let off with that. She let off with that. That was the she said, she said thing where Casey said, I didn't say anything to you.

I was very cordial. We were cool until you fired first. then I said that we were Eskimo sisters. Oh, you're right. Madison said you walked right over and told me that we were Eskimo sisters. I'm going to go and take Madison's side of the street because Casey's got a track record. Casey has a track. This is, it just got very confusing because Casey has a track record, but the more than Madison

talked about it and how butt hurt she still is a year later when he's dating one of your friends' friends who you know and apparently you're very cool with, you're still so upset about this. I don't know who to believe because like that's. weird behavior too. So I think I'm leaning towards believing Madison, but she doesn't do herself any favors because every time that she says something, Joe's response is laughed at by the crowd. And here we go back and forth. It's like, what are we doing here? Yeah, she got, she got beat by the, uh, the comedic timing, unfortunately. But I'm going to go based on,

we watched Casey give Patrick an entire explanation as to why he wasn't the one. It had nothing to do with looks. And then we get the cutscene of her talking to producers and in two sentences she's like yeah i'm just not attracted to him i don't think i'm ever going to be so i'm going to lean towards madison's side of this one and say she's probably telling the truth and like she said you have your perception i have the truth i believe that's a good that's a good line that was a very good line i just felt bad because she's not the villain like madison's not the villain she's not at all the way that this played out on stage made it look like she was the problem and that was yeah and i think that she also realized that because

every time that she said something, she didn't get a reaction from the crowd. Joe was getting laughs back and forth, people in the crowd, people on the stage were laughing at Joe. He was just firing off jokes back and forth. She could feel that. Like, I do feel like everybody now views me as crazy. The only person who I've got on my side right now is Kate, who I think was probably being a little careful because she's friends with Joe's girlfriend.

So like, she's not going to go that hard on the guy. So you're kind of out there on an island by yourself. You weren't doing yourself any favors. by continuing to talk. You should have just probably cut it off. Like, you know what? Do the thing where you're so much better off. You know what?

You learn a big lesson not to let guys like that into your life. You've been dating. You have a better idea of what's going on. That's probably the best way to do it. Whatever you did on stage, that night did not work. But Casey tries to explain away the Patrick thing in a way that I truly did not understand. She was, it wasn't about attraction, but it was about attraction. I loved you for who you were.

I just, it was crazy, and there were things going on. And I don't know, like, maybe we could have tried afterwards, but I didn't want to try. And you really wanted to have that phone call. You really wanted to have that phone call. She blamed on a phone call. I know. You guys were engaged.

That's why I shut down. That's why I didn't give you the ring back. Who's going to save this ring? Cliff Paul. This was the best, by the way. The fact that they panned to Chris Paul with a red shirt, making him cliffball who's not even the state farm spokesperson anymore because now we have jake from state farm so here we go with cliff paul in the audience you guys are going to shoot baskets

which went on for 10 minutes it was wild they said clip ball i just i thought they just no i call him i call him cliff oh okay i i refuse to believe that chris paul was actually there yeah cp3 in the audience yeah cp3 in the audience nicholaset was pulling some strings i wonder how much that appearance fee was probably like maybe they're tight grand Maybe you see if he's a big 98 degrees fin. That's a possibility. That's a good way to put it. But yeah, that whole 10-minute segment about them arguing about the ring, which got nowhere, we still, we know what the answer is with Casey.

I don't even want to say that she could have done herself some justice by actually just admitting it because at this point, who cares? I just love the audience's reaction to her, period. They're just like booing with their eyes. Like every time she says anything, like people are interested. rejecting from the audience like bullshit she's like I don't know how you're going to tell me how I feel about somebody it's like because we watch the show yeah we watch the show the whole time you just didn't like them and she the way she explained the attraction thing was funny because she did it a little softer where she's like look I just don't know I was so scared I didn't know

we didn't have enough time for me to feel if I was actually going to I mean if like you know you were going to be more attractive to me because I do find you attractive it's like what the fuck are you saying like even if you at least if you say the truth right now you can stop talking you're just burying yourself even further yeah and everything she said was just carrying on this slow painful process of not doing a good job and yeah then you throw into the mix you were dating joe which is fine like obviously it makes sense that you're going to go test some other waters from the show but then we find out at at this party there was a was it mike or brendon brendon she was she was apparently flirting with

brendon as well this was a different party so this was this was and i love how patrick gets roped into this one he's this was another party where who was it it was was oh it was casey and her friends going back to an apartment joe was there and i guess for some reason madison was there but brandon was also there so the cast is just kind of following each other around going from place to place in Denver, I guess. And now she's flirting with Brendan, who brings us into, like, the whole Annie situation with Annie and Nick. The whole thing was very fucking confusing.

All I got from that is Casey's just thirsty and she's just going after everybody. And I do wonder if it goes back to that whole Instagram thing where she's like, well, you know, some of these people are going to be a little Instagram famous. That's something that's right up my alley. Let me go after that. Let me just try to get some fun in there. Maybe I'll end up getting engaged. Who knows?

Let's just get engaged. You know, you can't escape the villain arc. Sorry. You can try at a reunion, but this was not the way to go about it. We've seen villains go to reunions and have decent showings. I thought she floundered. I didn't think it was good at all. The ring thing was irrelevant.

I didn't care who got the ring. Why they need the ring. I don't know why Patrick probably wants it for like a keepsake for that one time. He was on that show. He ends up giving it back to her. I don't know. I don't really. care, but it does take us to our last couple in Annie and Nick.

And this was awesome because Kate's there. Kate is a much bigger person than I am because she could have gone so much harder. She really doesn't. Oh, my God. Yeah. And Nick does the same shit we've seen. He turns it on. It's so obvious to me.

And I'm glad that she didn't buy it. She's like, you know, I appreciate the apology. like if it's sincere i don't even know it's more or less copy and paste of the shit that he's already done he's like you know i just i watched it back and like the fact that like this is such a bitch move

and i know what he's doing and it's because he's a fucking in cell but for him to text joe after joe talked shit and be like dude we're totally cool nerd stop yeah what a pussy shut the fuck up you're just trying to get ahead of it to make it look like you're the bigger person so you can look like you're better than other people like

it's still an in-cell move don't be fooled anybody and then when he's talking to kate he's like you know i felt closure it's like well then you're not listening to the conversation you're not aware of what she was saying back to you or reading her body language that conversation didn't go well at all and you know it didn't go well but you already painted it one way to annie so now you're going to sit here and try to a wheel and deal and make both annie and kate believe you the only The crazy part is, Annie's coming to your defense. Well, Annie does. Yeah, Annie was coming to his defense. Annie coming to his defense was wild.

I mean, I kind of saw it coming. I thought that Kate would have pressed a little harder, but you can tell right as soon as she starts talking, she knows, I'm not dealing with this bullshit. She's like, it's not worth it. This was Nick's like a plus game. This was his manipulation. He knew what he was going to say, going back to the apology, quote, unquote, that he gave at the hoe down didn't make any sense to me either.

Because what we saw was you just trying to get out of it. And you're like, I really thought that we were good. And I just had this weight lifted off of my chest. And I told Annie the same thing. It's like, you know what we saw on the cameras. But that's not how it actually played out. And that's not how it was perceived by either Kate or the audience at this point. So here we go again with more of your just pulling and pulling and pulling and

just trying to get this story straight and talk about how good of a guy you are. And you had some perspective and you were able to just move forward. And you didn't want to hurt anybody. and you really feel sorry about that whole thing, not because of what you did, because you didn't understand how she felt, which, again, just puts the onus on her instead of you, which is what you've been doing the whole time.

I'm a little upset that Kate didn't press. I'm a little more upset than nobody in the crowd pushed a little bit more because the cast members all hate him. You can tell they still all dislike him. Joe is done. Joe's portion is done. He already had the whole thing out with Madison and Casey. It went better than he probably had.

anticipated so he's not going to get involved in this no one else talks up like dude you did this the whole time we all watched the same thing are you being serious at this point i just i got the vibe that nobody felt like it was worth it which yeah yeah whatever i think we're also too far removed yeah a year after the emotions are so quelled that you're not going to have a whole lot of uproar like yeah at that point every dude there that had to spend time with nick in the pods like face to face is going I'm not getting involved in this every girl there is going not worth my time or I don't know him that well or I'm just not getting involved with this one including Kate who was involved and it's like this is a year ago this guy's a fucking

weirdo thank God he didn't propose to me yeah I'm not doing this he's probably lying right now but like whatever I don't I don't really that's what we got it's like what's the point of dealing with this in cell right now I'm not going to gain anything from it which is false, if somebody took him down, you would be viral and you would have a... For a little bit,

yeah, you'd probably get a good boost in your followers for a bit. Yeah, and we would appreciate it too. He deserves to be taking the task. Yeah, but we'll never have to see him again.

You know what I mean? I got, I hope. I really, truly hope that he doesn't get a revival in some other reality show because he doesn't deserve it.

He is such a loser. But yeah, love is not blind. Apparently, at least in season nine. So we'll see, Philly Love is Blind. I'm so excited for now that I know. Yeah, but you know what I realized when they started talking about how long this takes? It's going to be next year.

It'll be 2027 before we even see it. It's going to be a long time. Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking 2026, but it might be because they could start filming. They could start filming this like early 26, air it, and then. reunion summer or I guess fall of 2020s reunion they would film yeah later this year

or later for spring 2020 so I don't know we'll have to see how that goes but there is going to be one in between so we'll get even better at this that's the best part we're just going to do another season it won't be Philly and then by the time Philly comes around we'll be experts and then we'll probably know a couple of people we'll be great at this I think I don't know this show such a crapshoot it's hard to it's hard to predict

I think we're already great at this thanks man I needed that. It's been a long day. And I haven't checked any of my fantasy lineups. Oh, boy. That is a good segue to the end of the episode. It was a fun season. It was a fun show to dig into.

We had a lot of fun. We'll do it again. I like the format that we did, too. We'll just chunk it out. Just get these out as soon as they come. And I guess we'll see you next time on that one. But make sure you keep listening to our other episodes because we love you. Yeah. Well, that's all I got. You got anything else?

Nope. Well, that's our show. Bro's got to go. Hi there. Fred Greenhalj here. Director of audio dramas like DC high-volume Batman and Star Trek Khan. However, my one true love remains all things spooky, and I'm excited to say there's a new season of my horror podcast, Undertoe. This season is called Familiar Haunts, standalone horror tales that reveal how the past is never truly gone, and humanity may be the most ruthless monster of them all. Here's a sample from the first episode about a man who returns to the house he grew up in after receiving a creepy voicemail from his mother. Uh, let's hear it, shall we? Mike, help me. I'm not alone in here.

I'm not alone. She's, she's walking. She's fucking toward me. Hear the rest by listening to Familiar Haunts available on Undertow. Subscribe to Undertoe wherever get your podcasts, such as the app you're listening to me right now. In addition to the weekly releases of Familiar Haunt. We have 11 previous seasons with everything from werewolf tales to underwater monsters and creepy reincarnated twins. So get your spooky fix by subscribing to Undertoe.

Welcome and enter if you dare. Hi, I'm Halley Keeper. And I'm Alison Libby. And together, we're the hosts of Ruined, a scary movie podcast where Hallie tells me the grisly details of a haunting new horror film each week. Whether you're a terror hound like me or a scaredy cat like Allison, we've got so many thrills, chills, and obviously kills to share with you in every episode. It's the podcast that I'll have you saying that was so funny. I should not have listened to it at night with all the lights off.

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