Bros & Shows - Shannon Cuts Ties with Katie (RHOC Full Recap)

Episode Date: July 31, 2025

What's up Bros? RHOC is interesting this season. It's not a bad show but they are tiptoeing around some bad storylines i.e. the bloggers. In this episode, Shannon is fed up with Katie. Heather is planning a party and inviting all couples. Tamra has an issue with Ryan being invited. Her attorney has advised her to not be in the same room as him. Meanwhile, Jenn is upset that Heather insinuated that she would uninvite Ryan to appease Tamra. Katie and Gina seem to be moving forward, but Shannon has a lot to get off her chest. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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The twisted tale of Amanda Knox is now streaming only on Disney Plus. I'm not entirely sure what to make of everything, but I will say this. I'm enjoying O.C. Oh, you are? Yeah, I am. I'm not like, I'm confused. I'm confused about O.C., but I like this episode. I feel okay about where we're at. Yeah, I think we have a good amount to break down, which is better than nothing. So at least we're not sitting here just complaining about it. Yeah.

Yeah. Bros and shows. Brows and shows. I got to have me my pros and shows. Bros and shows. Brose and shows. I got to have me my bros and shows. Good afternoon, everybody.

Welcome back to another episode of Bros and shows. I am a co-host, St. Russell, joined as always. by the one and only Scooter McGavin. What's up, dude? Not a whole lot. This OC episode, it's a little late.

We had some things going on. Steele was down the shore. I went to a Keshe concert last night, so I figured we wanted to get it out before the new episode comes out so you guys understand where we're coming from when we're sitting at home watching the show.

Yeah, and the people, we've gotten some comments about the release day, of our episode. Hey, we could take vacations sometimes, too, guys. Okay? It's summer for us, too. We're trying to get it out fast. We're not robots. We do stuff. Most of you are cool and get it. Some people are like, this, they've got like a bad review because of the release of one of the episodes. That's not nice. We're trying here. You know, we had a little vacate summertime, baby. Yeah, this every once in a while, you know, it takes a little while to get an episode out. But for the most part, I feel like they're usually out within a day or two, right? feel like that too i don't know who knows whatever i just back off yeah i'm we love you guys we love you jk but let's talk oh c this was there's a lot going on there's a lot going on this season in a good way uh i don't know what teams are going to form if there are going to be teams i'm not sure who's getting along with who at the end of all of this but it's interesting it's just

interesting to see all of it play out and as you talked about a lot last episode you were bringing up like katy and a lot of the missteps she's taken she she needs to clean it up a little bit i like katy but like you're seeing it bite her in the ass constantly and it's like yeah it's hard to defend some of it's like i i think the where i disagree is the gravity of the situation like i don't disagree that she's like put her foot in her mouth but as far as what's happening and not all of it, but most of it. I'm like, I don't think that it calls for this level of like, fuck her.

No, it doesn't. I think that more people should just take the root of like, I don't really care too much about like what's going on. Talk about her missteps. Talk about, you know, just really poor performance, I guess you could say in the offseason with all the foresight. Yeah, bad foresight, bad form. All of those things come into play.

I would just love it if once somebody who gets caught doing this stuff would just immediately cop to it and be like it's not that big of a deal. Like I don't really understand what the fuck you're talking about because I do think that that's the approach that she should be taking when it comes to Emily, when it comes to even Shannon. Like Shannon is who she is. We get reports every other day about production crews about TMZ reporting that she is an absolute terror. I mean, last week he was on. Yeah, JKB. just go to him last week she was on watch what happens live and i forget who she was on with i want to say madeline welch and generally speaking not really somebody that like is on bravo shows but shannon

was there and she was getting more love than shannon was and apparently she was pissed off about it and she had to like calm down with whoever was there in the crowd i think she's very funny i think she's an incredible like housewife performer but she is an absolute psychopath so if you could get to the point, Katie, where you can just look at Shannon and be like, Shannon, I do not give a fuck. You're a psycho. I've had to deal with you the entire season. It's enough. I've had enough with you.

Yeah, I recorded you and said it to my husband because I said, can you believe that I'm dealing with this shit? I would respect that so much. Yeah, people are still going to be like, well, that's crazy that she was recording her. She was having a breakdown. She was going through a lot. I get it. But at some point, enough's enough with Shannon. And I'm getting to that point where I'm like, I just don't care anymore.

you are just psychotic and if somebody wants to record you flipping out again so be it stop stop flipping out maybe that just stop doing that shit i think you you nailed it i think that katy cares too much about about the fallout of it i think if she took a different approach she wants to be friends with all of them like i i don't know it's you wouldn't be doing this if you wanted to be friends with everybody and i she said this last week uh that she didn't really know what she was getting into she thought that it was a real doggy dog world in the housewives world which it is but you know it doesn't call for whatever the fuck you were doing talking to yeah and stuff so like just admit your missteps and if people are still going to give you

shit for it you're not going to be friends with them so who cares just move on and have that attitude i think you'll actually get respect from people like tamara and heather dubrough if you just have an i don't give a shit what you think about me attitude because they typically don't i think that you know she's still a rookie so yeah and we're getting past that point to, but I agree with you. I think it's just and she wants everyone to like her. It's like that's not possible.

It's not going to happen. That's what that hot pot dinner was all about or lunch was all about. I want you guys to get to know the real me. That ship has sailed, lady. What are we doing here? Let's get into this episode. We get Katie with Gina and they're getting a little scalp treatment. And, you know,

it seems like these two are finally able to move on a little bit, which is fine. Like, I don't need everybody against Katie all season. It's going to get old. I really don't need Gina against Katie because you get all these worthless scenes of Gina like raising hell. And it's like, dude, you or Emily, I don't care. Yeah, it just doesn't do anything for me.

He has like a genuine gripe with her. Gina's gripe is just that she feels bad because she brought Katie into the group. Like, shut up. Yeah, it does have the same. It's not the same. Right. And it's funny, though, to get like this apology tour montage. Gosh, I'm sorry.

I didn't mean, I'm sorry, we're sorry. I'm so sorry. Like, that's literally what it is. And you get to see all the shit, and that's what it's hard to defend it because you're watching all of these little things pile up. And you're just like, at what point do you not talk to the blogger? Or you don't give a piece of information you don't need to give. Or, like, it's, none of it's that big of a deal.

It's not. It's not even really that we want to defend her. No. Because like you said, you like Katie, I don't, I feel very indifferent towards Katie just because, like, I don't really care. And it's, I don't, it is her fault, but it's not her fault because of everybody's reactions to these things. Like, it's just not an interesting storyline because we know that every housewife talks to bloggers. Every housewife wants to be on podcasts. They have their own podcasts. It's just a non-issue.

It is such a non-issue. I just don't want to deal with this the whole season. That's all I'm doing. So if I'm ever defending Katie, it's because I truly don't give a shit about the storyline anymore and I want to move on really badly. It's not really me defending it because it's indefensible. Like you got caught.

You just have to cop to it and say, which she kind of did. And you know what? Always, I'm sorry, butts it. I'm sorry, but she does. Yeah, Shannon was right about that. It's just cop to it. And then if they still feel a type of way and they still give you shit for it,

then you can say, are we still talking about this? Are we still doing this? Let's move on. Then start pointing the finger in the other direction. You guys do this all the time. What are we talking about anymore? It's stupid. Then I would actually respect it and I'd probably start to like Katie.

But right now, I'm just indifferent, mostly because she's making us sit through this. And as a note taker, we get an absolutely brutal split scene of three conversations going on. Because we check in with Emily and Tamara, Emily rocking the Canadian tuxedo, big fan, love a Canadian tucks. But they're talking about Gretchen and like, oh, clearly Gretchen hasn't moved on. It's like, oh, you certainly have, haven't you, Tamara? But I don't know why. I just always want to call her Gretchen Wieners. I think it's just because that name stuck in my head from Mean Girls.

When I hear Gretchen, I immediately think Gretchen Wieners for whatever reason. So I don't think that's your fault. There's no way around it. Yeah. There's no way around it. And the third conversation, we have Heather, Jen, and Shannon out to a little bit of a lunch date. So we're jumping all back and forth the whole time. It's mainly between Heather, Jen, Shannon, Emily, and Tamara.

Those are the big things, right? The one note I will say from Gina is that she is admitting that Tamara's wrong when it comes to like this Facebook dispute, you know, bringing up the comment and all of that stuff. Okay. So let's get back to it. As far as Heather Jen and Shannon go, they're talking about Katie's text because she's like a. a text to to Shannon that morning trying to explain

what had happened in her mind she's giving context in Shannon's mind she's reading I'm sorry but because the claim that Katie's making

is nobody else heard this recording right I recorded it I sent it to Matt to explain what I was dealing with that's what happened and then in passing

I mentioned that to Alexis and then Alexis said that she heard the recording blah blah blah blah so on and so forth. Now, the story goes that Jen, Alexis, and Katie were hanging out. Jen, she clarifies, I've never heard this recording. We have two issues here.

One, this all comes down to her she said, she said. And two, Jen forgets things. Jen does forget things. And it's weird because I want to believe Jen, just because she just seems like the most normal out of everybody. And she's been through so much. But I don't know. Really, it just comes down to your imagination. how do you imagine that this scene played out in my head and this kind of does go back and i think

we did kind of just weirdly stumble into what's wrong with katie and that she wants everybody to be her friend and i think that's probably true with alexis too because we can oh yes that last year why the fucker jenn and katie going over to alexis's house to talk to her that just seems weird but again Alexis is for whatever reason completely against shannon because she thinks that Shannon's jealous of her. I could see this scene playing out where Katie goes to that dinner, tells Alexis and Jen all about the whole situation, mentions that she had recorded Shannon having a fucking shitstorm,

throwing it over to Matt. I don't think that she played it at that dinner table for whatever reason. In my head, I just don't think she did. And I could see Alexis lying and saying, I've got this video too showing that Shannon was having a meltdown because Katie gave it to me. That's probably how it played out. in my mind. If we get any more evidence I will change my tune very quickly

but we don't have any evidence like you said it. She said she said. So we're stuck in this middle thing again at the root of it I don't really care too much because it's stuff that happened off camera that we're not really talking about. I don't really give a shit and it's stuff that happened last year and Alexis Bellino is involved which again I

don't care but I imagine that's probably how it played out and again bad move by Katie. Why are you telling Alexis something that she's clearly going to tell the rest of the group oh I heard Shannon had a complete blow up at the, at the photo shoot the other day. Katie told me, oh, actually she showed me the video. Like, she could just take it an extra step and lie because nobody's going to try to catch her in the lie because now it goes back to Katie.

And that's really all that anybody wants. It's just, I don't know. I'm a little tired about it. I am too, and we've talked about the blogger storyline on other shows. It just doesn't ever play well. What I will say, it's leading to one positive thing that I'm enjoying watching. And it's watching Jen really come into her own. we've watched her tiptoe around things the first couple of season she was on but now she's

really finding her groove and in this moment specifically because you know heather's saying well Alexis told me that she played the recording for her and it's a voice recording not a video but her saying i don't think there's any coming back for that i'm like what like it's not that serious like shannon was losing her shit as she does frequently yes it's an endangered privacy yes it's it's a stupid thing to do especially if you're going to tell people about it. She definitely told Alexis because as you said, she wants everybody to like her. That was dumb. But

this isn't like the end of the world. She didn't send this to the bloggers. So Jen points out. She should have. Yeah. Well, no, she points out. Just dig in deep in the blogger's story. Just start sending everything. Like, you won't get asked back.

But at this point, I don't know if Katie's even going to come back next season. So like, it's too bad. It's too. I'm going to see where it goes. But like, I'll ask you this. how is this any different or less damning or more damning than Tamara listening to the butt dial last year and telling everyone that Shannon was freaking out and telling them what she heard on the fucking butt dial when she wouldn't have been privy to that conversation because it was a conversation that Shannon was having with I don't know if it was her legal team or her daughters or whoever it was just somebody a close friend maybe maybe a guy from Love Hotel because that's what she does now. know. Yeah, this was a very funny episode for that. But it's not any different. It's actually less damning because we know that Shannon's flipping out. We know this is happening behind closed doors probably every day. Shannon stopped flipping out. Maybe this won't

happen anymore. It's actually less damaging than what Tamara did last year. So let's tie all that in if Jim was going to do that. That's what she does. She points out like, how many lines has Tamara crossed? Like, honestly. And Heather's response sucks. She's like, I'm not Heather's keeper. She's like, not Katie's keeper. What does that have to do with anything? She's, she's talking about the hypocrisy of these two things. It's the same fucking thing, but for whatever reason, Tamara gets a pass. Heather, you're cool with Tamara, but Katie can't come back from sending a voice recording to her husband. The cold post moves every episode in this fucking cast. Meanwhile, Tamara's over with Emily saying that she's held to a different standard and they're baiting her.

They're baiting me right now. It's like, what the fuck are you talking about? It's a bizarre world. It's a bizarre world it just it depends on who you are it always has and it always will in this cast it's the double standards for people it's just it's unbearable just hold everybody accountable for the same shit for the love of god like that's all we ever ask for and again you know we don't like tamara as a person we agree that she's good for the show we say that pretty much every episode of this point but it would just be so satisfying if once we held tamara accountable for the shit that we hold everybody else accountable for just once just throw it out there and just see what happens she won't see it coming because she's gotten away with it for so long it would just be so

enjoyable for the audience for once hold her accountable hold her feet to the fire for a little bit and what do you mean by i'm not scared of tamara who said that who mentioned that who brought that up nobody don't know she's like do you feel safer you to give her grace she's like i'm not scared of tamara it's like nobody said you are you you sounds like you are i think you are now i think you're afraid of the backlash from Tamara. And that's why you are just agreeable to the stupid shit that she's doing. You can get protein at home or a protein latte at Tim's. No powders, no blenders, no shakers. Starting at 17 grams per medium latte, Tim's new protein lattes, protein without all the work at participating restaurants in Canada.

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sprinkled with pumpkin spice. It's full of real flavors you'll keep coming back for. Made just for you at Starbucks. there's a birthday party for a birthday that was a month and a half ago and this doesn't make any sense she's like you know it's cold it's like it's january in l.A like how cold does it get i don't know the answer to that but i do agree with like you know having your birthday around the holidays is always tough because i thought it's because the temperature holiday stuff yeah maybe and she was talking about people are hung over or they're sober because they're doing dry january or whatever i just don't

want to do that um i agree i personally don't care i think it's fine i i don't care i think it's fine i whatever i might be annoyed in the moment but whatever i'm not going to get her birthday gift a month and a half later that's for no i don't think you should have to no i yeah for a hundred are you invited a party or whatever um i am invited next year yes nice congrats i'm going to go it's going to be extravagant uh i don't care for how often we talked about that in this episode though why the fuck do we need every scene somebody has to have a comment about heather's birthday and then we go to a deep conversation about Heather's birthday because it's Heather because they're highlighting like oh you know Heather got to be all about Heather to do it once it cut it out honestly production

just edit no need to have the same conversation 15 times but I guess Tamara's attorney has told her to not be in the same room as Ryan because Ryan's threatening a lawsuit I can't imagine why that's the funny thing the way that she's going about this is like I can't even be the same room as him. It's like, that's your doing because you said things that were true. Because your lawyer does not trust you in the same room as him. It's not because we don't trust Ryan. It's because we can't trust you in the same room as him because you're going to say something stupid. Correct. And that's, it's funny as shit to hear her act like, oh, like you wouldn't put me in that situation. And it leaves Heather with a decision to make. And she tells Jen this. She's like, you know, I invited you and Ryan.

It's like a couple's party. But Tamara said that she can't be in the same room as him. So like, Like, I'm not sure what to do. And Jen, and again, like coming into her own, she's like, well, then you're choosing her. If you're telling me not to invite my significant other, you're choosing Tamara's side. That's bullshit. And Jen goes off a little bit, which I love. I'm glad that she's finally checking people.

And she's checking somebody in Heather, which you would think that maybe she'd be a little bit timid to do that. She goes through the list. And it's like, these are damning things. She had to convince people that her house was safe for her children because Tamara lied and said that Ryan's house was getting raided by the FBI. That's a really big thing to answer for. And Heather's like, you know, yeah, I guess, like, I'll just invite everybody and the chips

will fall where they may. But she's just trying to find excuses. She's using Katie as an example. She's comparing what Katie did to what Tamara did. I'm like, those are not even in the same ballpark. I think this was actually, it was pretty impactful on Heather weirdly, like as you can She was stuttering, dude. She was stuttering.

In that moment, she didn't expect that kind of backlash from Jen. She kind of just expected Jen to take it lying down or maybe, you know, make a joke at Tamara's expense and just get to the point where she got to where it's like, yeah, I'm just going to invite everybody and see how it goes. But in the conversation that Heather has with Tamara a little bit later in this episode, I think this actually did have an impact on Heather in the way that she was moving, which is good. I mean, that's exactly what you want out of Jen. Jen's really stepping into her own. it's just so fucking funny to me like what did you think was going to happen did you think jemba's going to sit there and be like oh no yeah i totally understand that you know ryan right just had knee surgery so maybe he won't go anyway and maybe it's better if we just kind of move on just

for the sake of the party and for the sake of your birthday like no she's not going to take that line down that's bullshit i think it's even funnier that ryan had to go while he's like in a fucking cast for his knee it's like you have to go to this goddamn party now but i wonder if there was a moment where he was like, ah, yeah, no, actually knowing Ryan, there was never a moment where he was going to go. He wants to be a housewife, so. They could have cut his leg off. He would have been there.

I like him a lot better this year, but let's, let's not just act like he's a different guy. No, he kind of makes that clear in this scene a little bit. I didn't, or in the next scene he's in. But we get Katie and Matt, and we get to check in with their family dynamic. Obviously, we know it's gotten a little crazy after her and her husband split. She was homeless and she gave up custody, both legal and physical custody of her children to her ex so that she could get her shit squared away, which is a massive, massive thing. And obviously very emotional.

She went through a lot of trauma with this and it would be insane. You could argue you couldn't come back from it. If somebody weaponized that in front of the world, you would think that that would be damning. We're not weaponized here again, are we? yeah we just did the valley but apparently we're not even going to mention that we're going to gloss over what emily did at the reunion and we're going to act as though katie's the worst human in the world for filming or recording yet another shannon freak out that's where we're at in this show that's why we get so frustrated this is yeah this is exactly why it's so tough for me to get into the show

because there are so many people on this show that need their comeuppance they need to actually face the music and they never do and yet we hold people who just got on this show accountable and we label them as the worst person in the world like there are label them evil label them evil label them evil when people on this show have done 15 20 50 times worse to each other and they don't get held accountable and they're not labeled as evil it's it's just it's a joke it's just that's why it's so tough to get into this show that's why the dynamics of this show are just so ass backwards and it doesn't make for great TV. We fall into these situations all the time and it used to be kind of funny where it's

like, oh, well, that's just goofy. Like the hypocrisy is just funny to me. We don't even laugh at it anymore, which is so we come to expect this type of situation. And it's just like you roll your eyes out of and move on. You see this one specifically. And you get the flashback of Emily doing what she did. I'm like, this is horrible. Like, it's so bad.

And yet we haven't talked about it once this season. It's disgusting behavior. But yeah, let's talk about how her, Katie's 19-year-old daughter heard that your kids say that you don't really like Heather and Heather's mean to you. Oh, my God. Oh, it's the worst thing anyone's ever done to me on this show is what she said. Like, what are you talking about? They're just, they're losers in their, their life, they're, none of their lives are really that interesting. Oh, God, this is becoming a bash.

I need to calm down. They're just, they are. Like, they're uninteresting. they're losers they the storylines that they come up with are fucking stupid and boring and now we got to just label katie as evil because she filmed shannon having a freak out when shannon has a freak out every day like whatever evil this shit evil missed me with that shit bro but emily shame jina travis shannon and adam of love hotel that's what his name was we were talking last week like thank god that guy it's adam that guy's weird yeah adam's weird yeah adam's a weird

weirdo. No, wait, no, Adam was fine. It wasn't Adam. Adam was not the weirdo. Talking to Luan, trying to get the threesome going. I don't think it was. Yes, it was. He wore that weird, like, sashet belt at one point with a vest. He did, but, like, I thought

that Adam was fine, honestly. He was the awkward one when they were sitting in the room and she wanted him to kiss her, and he wouldn't do it. Like, that was Adam. I guess it was. Okay. Yep. As soon as I saw it was like, oh, yeah, that guy. And I think, again, And I'm just going to, we'll just highlight the hypocrisy all the time.

Yeah, let's do it. Seth, Seth, I always call him Seth, Shane, Emily's husband Shane, shows up to the bowling alley with his own bowling shoes. Okay, just want to label, I just want to call it like it is. And that's fine. He seems like the kind of guy that would do that, to be fair. Without a doubt, he owns his own bowling shoes and probably his own ball. Now, if that's the case and you accept that and you go as far after he bowls a strike to go, God, that's so hot.

When Shannon shows up with a dude and they're wearing matching bowling shirts, you don't get to comment on it because you, your husband brought his own bowling shoes. So that's the level of hypocrite we're dealing with here. That's frustrating to me. And it seems so small. It is very frustrating. It does seem so small, but I kind of caught it too, mostly because I was like, of course, Shane has his own bowling shoes. Yeah, it's probably embossed with his name and him and stuff like that.

But anyway, Gina decides to grill Adam, like, she's going to make sure that John Jansen 2.0 doesn't happen, which part of me appreciates it. Part of me was on Travis's team where Travis is like, dude, like, come on. Initially, I was, I was in tune with this. I'm like, all right, that's actually fair because you do, it's more protection against Shannon, though, because you probably don't want to deal with Shannon spiraling again. so it's more like are you going to fuck with her to the point where I have to hear about it for fucking months that's more of like an okay but then she went overboard of course because she was just doing it the whole goddamn night which is just uncomfortable for everybody I agree

I 100% agree but the only thing to really come from this scene is that Shannon is planning to cut all ties with Katie which is a bold statement and I was curious because we saw that like scene from next week last week where she like gets into it with Katie so I was curious how it's going to play out, but that's the setup, okay? Everyone on the same page because we've got to check with Jen and Ryan real quick. And this is what I don't like, you know, even if you feel a certain way, because they get into it about, I guess Dominic is talking in PE class, you know, he needs to rein it in a little bit, whatever. And he goes into a confessional and comments on their birth father and he,

his involvement or lack thereof in their life and yeah i'm not here to say what level of involvement that guy's in i have a lot to say about what he does with their oldest son dawson later yeah but fucking insane but i think it no matter of what it's just a bad look to shit talk another pair you gotta keep your you got to keep your mouth shut right uh he he tried to do the but i don't know at the end which is like if you ever see a mean that's his business you give like the most most earth-shattering like insult but like trying to give advice and then you end it with i don't know no don't mean like that's the frog sit but that's not of my business yeah that's pretty much what he did and we just came off we're on the

tail end of hearing about what tamra did by doing all of that last year and how that impacted jens x with the kids and all of that that goes into it maybe keep your mouth shut just tread carefully because clearly he's watching he's getting clips from the show he's got some sort of reaction to it and trying to you know work his way into it legally just don't poke the bear that's what i think look it just at no point is that going to be beneficial to him because if the kids love their dad they're going to see that and go fuck you ryan if the kids don't like their dad they're going to say why are you putting this out for everybody to see it's just Correct.

It's just a bad look. But, yeah, this is crazy. This is absolutely fucking nuts. So Dawson's joining the Marines. That's not the nuts part. Congratulations. That's a big move. But Dawson's oldest brother, I guess, Harrison, or I don't know what the age

disparages. We hadn't met Harrison before this scene. No, I think. That's the first time I've heard of Harrison. Because Dawson, we had a very weird conversation with him last year where we were like, oh, this is. He was a very serious. teenager just yeah but harrison we hadn't met for and harrison is going to school at u s c which is pretty

expensive and uh i guess he needed a co-signer so you would think you know there's a couple of people to choose from dad mom maybe not the 18 year old brother who's going to the marines um what the fuck what are we doing here floored i was floored and then i'm like well maybe ryan should have taken a shot at this guy like that's what dad would ask their kid to co-sign a loan for their other kid for the tune of i mean student loan interest rates alone but like what is that 60 to 70 grand a year for usc more it was 73 they put it on the board or on the uh on the board they put it on the board yes put it on the board uh so without interest you're looking at a three hundred thousand dollar loan that you are now responsible for as ryan and ryan actually

breaks it down pretty well to him. He's like, these are all the things that are now impacted because you co-signed that loan. All of these things are going to happen now. What father would do that and put their kid in the hole? I have no idea. I don't know. I had more questions that I got answers because then I'm like, what is Jen doing? Like, why didn't Jen co-sign loan, too? I don't think Jen knew about until after it happened. That's the vibe that I got, which is the whole thing stinks. Very bizarre situation. But I mean, we could. The things that we knew about Jen's X, he was working for her parents on the farm. He needed a job there.

They loved him. He still remained on the farm even after they broke up. They were trying to make it amicable. I guess there was something weird with money last year that was mentioned to where he wanted to like get money from Jen or something. It just seems shady. The whole situation is just bizarre. Yeah, this makes it a hell of a lot worse. Yeah.

I don't know. I hope we get more answers about it. talk about it more because that was a big thing and I was like oh shit and then we kind of moved on to Heather and Tamer maybe for maybe for their sake we don't talk about it too much though the kids the kids yes but they're like 18 they're going to school he's 18 to 21 yeah he can take on 300 thousand dollars worth of debt he should be able to talk about it well I it's not it won't be 300 I don't think which is unless he's good because the kids 21 you've already he's already two years oh I see what you're saying so so I guess they needed

it for the other two years so it's it's like 150 you know plus the interest on those are fucking terrible yeah i don't know it sucks i feel bad for him and he's not great as an 18 year old's like yeah whatever maybe they thought because he's going to the well he's going to the marines but maybe he thinks like oh i get free education so like this way i'm just co-signing i could do that maybe the marines will pay for it if things go bad i mean you just hope that the dad covers at all and like he just needed a co-sider because his credit's not great i don't know it's fucking weird but we get to heather and tamra loads they give to anybody student loans who gives i know that it's not great that's a good point but that's my point and they if they won't give him a

student loan he needs a co-signer like what does that say yeah i have so many more questions now i've been talking about it for a while i just i hope we get more answers because i i'm very invested in that now but heather and tamera go to lunch Heather, make sure to tell us all at home that Tamara's been very calm lately and such bullshit. Yeah, she's like, you know, the last six months have been really heavy

between, I will obviously empathize. Yeah, with the Teddy situation, for sure, yeah. I can't imagine that's your best friend. You guys have had your podcast for a while your friends in the show. So yes, obviously that's going to affect you. That can't be easy.

And that's separate entirely. I have sympathy for that. Always will have sympathy for that. I don't care how much I don't like Tamara. Like, that's hard to deal with. So I feel for her there. The other stuff.

And I will, I will highlight this every time. The Sydney of it all, stop bringing her up. She's asked you multiple times to not bring her up on camera. Stop, stop doing it. You do it again in this scene.

You've done it multiple times before. She's now a talking point again because of the Facebook post. You brought that up again. Like, it's one simple instruction. Leave me off the show. There is somebody, because Freakier Friday's coming out soon.

So I think it was Betches or Queens of Bravo or somebody posted this is the freaky Friday that we want and it was like Meredith and her son and then it was like it was just basically like a bunch of like Bravo. Yeah it was it was Brooks. And then like you know Lisa Barlow and Jack or like whatever switching bodies. I really and this is this is my therapy is the podcast. I need this. I really wanted to comment. Let's put. Let's put. Let's put. Let's put. Tamara and Sydney up there. Oh, my God. I wanted to comment it, but I didn't because I'm a good for you. Yeah, but I'm talking about it here. So I can still get my laughs so people can still laugh at it, but I'm not just, you know, putting it out there. Yeah, you have to listen.

Yeah. Some people get mad at you. That's okay. That's all right. But they talk about Gretchen briefly and obviously their interactions and, you know, Heather's questions like, why is she not giving Tamara any grace? It's like from what I've gathered thus far, and I don't know a whole lot about the the Gretchen Rossi situation in the past. From what I've gathered, it's a very tit for tat relationship.

Like they both dig at each other. So like, I don't think grace is being extended anywhere. I don't think we should expect that, especially on this show. Like, when is grace ever given to anyone in OC ever? I'm fully okay with just gloves off at this point. Like I don't even, we don't even really need to talk about grace when it comes to these two unless Tamara is going to do the hypocritical. Well, I would give her grace if I could, but like she doesn't want to play like that. So I'm going to play like this.

Like don't even say that. Like we just expect you to play gloves off. So just go right into it. Like we don't even need to have this conversation. You know what I mean? Because like you said, it doesn't look like Gretchen's even coming at it from a way of like, I've got a clean slate for Tamara. We'll see how it goes.

Like, no, Gretchen is coming onto the show ready to go after Tamara. So I would expect Tamara to do the same. So just just do it. Do it. Let's not talk about it. Yeah, I agree. 100% but she brings up the gen conversation she had about Ryan being invited to the party and tam was like well just tell me can't come it's like because of the reasons heather gay it's like it's a couple's party it makes sense like he needs to be there and tam was like well is his friendship better than mine i'm like no you're just putting in a really awkward uncomfortable situation because you can't not say something incriminating when you're around Ryan you're putting her in a bad spot and telling her how to run her party now It doesn't have to be as deep as like, well, if you pick him, it's like, no, just like, look at the situation as a whole.

This, this I actually really enjoyed because, as I said earlier, this was in the back of my mind, the way that Jen reacted to Heather talking about it kind of threw Heather through a loop. Like, I wonder if she would have gone into this conversation with Tamara a little differently saying like, yeah, I'm not really sure if Ryan's going to come, you know, you do what you got to do. you know, I talk to Jen about it. It doesn't seem like things are going to change or anything like that. It was more, no, it's a couples party. Like she was firmly in the stance of like, I'm inviting who I'm inviting. You have to deal with shit on your own, figure it out. Tamara was thrown through a loop as well.

She fully expected Heather to say that, yeah, Ryan's not going to come or I told Jen not to bring Ryan or whatever it may be. Tamara was caught off guard, which I'm always very excited about. And you can see, she expected all of these things to be handed to her because this is how her life has been since she came back to the show people just do things for tamara and she expects them to do things for her and when things go wrong she gets crazy and i want to see this i want to see this is the real tamara we're going through therapy over here tamara let's see how those uh how those tools are affecting you now well we definitely will we know that but she's like you know if he does come

then eddie definitely won't it's like oh god no oh not eddie bummer shit wow man you guys won't It's wear your fucking leather jackets and ride your motorcycle at a little party. Oh, no. Boom. Summer's here, and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days, delivered with Uber Eats.

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Search for Raiders of the Lost podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. Let's get to the setup for the party at a very interesting editing moment. Did you catch it? Maybe. It involves golf. I don't know.

It's the transition scene. You didn't? So they had a guy golfing. It just hits the drive-off. off the T. Yeah. And then it shows like a, a scenic view of,

I guess downtown O.C. Or whatever, like an office building. And they put in like an animation of the window. Oh, I did see this. Yeah. It broke a window. Yeah.

Why? I have no idea. I was like, interesting choice. I watched this like a couple days ago. So I definitely forgot about that. But yeah, I definitely,

I didn't rewind because I thought I saw it. And it was funnier the way that I saw it. But I'm happy to, know that that was true. I did rewind it. Did they just, like, throw in a random window break right there? Like, what a weird choice? Like, what do you get?

So bad he hits into the city. This guy hit 700 yards that way. It shouldn't have been standing there. It was just, I'm glad you caught it too. I was like, what? What was that? We get to the party, and I will say, it looks like a cool party. You know, we got coops and a coop.

I wrote that down. We got a lady in a champagne coop, pouring champagne, in two goops and we have a joint station because header's cool so we got a j station and we've got the uh the shot thing was cool i enjoyed that oh yeah they throw the rip a shot and throw it at the gong it's so funny because like when that was going on i was like oh my god there's glass everywhere they're ice it's ice it's ice yeah and uh shannon shanan sucks at it but that's okay yeah she's really bad that uh that's okay and everyone starts arriving phil oh yeah phil was there of course phil

walks in with Shannon we get our another love love hotel this but this bummed me out so like we could have had her not that Earl's like you know the greatest guy in the world it would just be funny if Earl made an appearance but I'm glad that she's going through her roster of love hotel guys and also clarifying she refers to it as the bench of guys it's great no it's a roster but yeah close it's fine it's fine I think that it's funny like this aspect of Shannon I'm really enjoy I think it's hilarious that she's like well I've got all these guys We got a lot of numbers. Yeah.

I hope she brings a new love hotel contestant every single. Will you see Ralph? Theo. Oh, Ralph. No, we'll have to wait for Potomac for Ralph, I'm sure. I think he might be on Potomac.

I could see him making an appearance. Ashley would do that for the camera. Yeah, definitely. Ashley's probably kicking herself right now, the timing of the season releases. Yeah, she would have done this.

We would have had so many different love hotel people with Ralph Wallet. It's not going to hit the same. no it's not it's not but you know what else doesn't hit ryan's hoodie no dude what the fuck is he wearing like i know you just like you got out of acl surgery or whatever and you're rolling up to a party limpid in there but you have a suit on why are you wearing a hood like it's it's that's your i know that's your schick but like come on his fashion and sense is horrible it drives me up the wall it's not even like oh that's a funny fit it's just like what are we doing why are we doing this he thinks he looks cool yeah and i'm all four people wearing

what they want to wear. I wear wacky shit all the time. I can't condone a hoodie to a suit event. That was stupid as shit. Anyway, you know what I do love? I love Matt leaning into this shit now. He's like, what are the odds of this party, Ryan? I was like, hell yeah. I mean, he misspoke. It didn't make any sense when he first said it. I knew what he was trying to say. One of the odds that Katie gets skewered at this party, which is kind of funny because that's your wife. But yeah, he's leaning into it. I guess it's fine. It's fun. Right. God, you're a bummer. Yes, it's fun. It's funny. We like when people lean it. He's leaning into it. Damn it. He's trying, I guess. Oh, let's talk about Shannon. Because we get Shannon and Phil. Phil gets introduced to all the gals. Emily apparently takes this as

like a sticking point. Like, oh, like I've already met this love hotel contest and this. It's like, we get the stick. We don't need you to explain it to us. Like, yeah, that's what she's doing. It's kind of funny until you pointed out. And now it's like, uh, I just, I don't know. And maybe it's just because she's bothering me. We're having a good time with the Love Hotel people. Shannon's having a good time. Maybe it's unintentional.

Maybe she actually genuinely is like, I've got this whole list of guys that I could just bring to events. Funny. That's really funny for us. But when you bring it up, no, it's not funny anymore. Yeah, I don't like it now. No, I don't want to do it anymore. Thanks a lot.

It is also funny that they're doing this all in like a, what looks like the righteous gemstones mega church, which I wanted, more interested in that than the party itself is like let's go for a tour in here this place looks like i think that's just like a bravo trends now because we had a the party at the church the other day with miami in miami yes yeah old churches is the new trope who knew sure is it was sound baths one year then it was trying to break apart marriages and now we've gotten to megachurches there's the natural progression yeah we all saw coming without a doubt let's get to gina and katie

And, you know, Katie's stoked that she even got invited. As we know last year with Heather, things were a little rocky. So she's excited to be invited. She's upset at Tamara. And this is a great point. She's like, I went to Tamara. I fell on the sword. And the next day, she's telling all these ladies about the recording.

It's like, yes, that's Tamara. Why you went over there to try to apologize is beyond me. But hopefully this is a lesson to you. We said this last week. That's why Tamara was so quick to bury the hatchet with you, because she had something else on you. Yep. She was ready to unleash the next thing. so yeah and hopefully here's the thing with katie i hope she starts learning from her mistakes

and her missteps because she's done the same thing repeatedly with the bloggers and contacting people on the outside i hope that she's able to start taking notes i mean like i'm not doing that again i think i saw that in her conversation with shannon which we're about to get to but i really hope it sticks i hope it sticks i just don't know how she wants to go about it because she seems to be the type of person that yeah she does the i'm sorry buts but again she wants these people to really like her and she wants to be their friend so she's kind of just hoping like oh yeah we'll just let that one go and i'll just be really nice and invite you to something and then we'll be good again it's like no they hold on to these things they

remember these things unless there's a full resolution she needs to put herself in a better position where she gets that resolution and then if somebody brings it back up you can point at them and be like we already we already covered that we squashed that you can't bring that back up it's just stupid it's gratuitous and i don't really care that's what you really have to do yeah it's double jeopardy exactly so that's what she has to start doing or she has to take the stance of what she was doing with shannon a little bit later and just like i don't fucking care um i'm over this like that's what you have to start doing and i think i'm we're starting to see that and that's that's what the episode ends with but not before we learn that gretchen broke slade's penis thank god we um

have that now it just curves a little bit to the left yeah she even shows us with her finger because this side doesn't get hard there you go yeah i didn't need to know that part and then you cannot no matter who you are see that her do that and have her comment on it and not think of slate's penis i challenge you to do that because lord knows i did just have a visual of my minds that i did not one yep exactly it's impossible not to i like it and a He starts off by saying, he's like, go out, don't talk about that in here. Don't talk about it. And then he just leans into it towards the end.

It's like, what are we doing? Come on. He wanted it to. No, he was stoked that she was talking about his dick on camera. Come on. Yeah. But Katie and Shannon, the showdown finally happens. And Katie leads it off pretty well, I thought, just because she's going with the, you know,

I'm sorry, there's no excuse route. Shannon brings out the text that was an excuse. Katie's saying it wasn't an excuse. It was context. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. they get into it. Shannon's not having it. Let's just dive in because I want to ask you,

is Shannon overreacting? Is Katie doing a bad job apologizing? All the above? Or is there something else going on? Shannon overreacting? No. I think that she's actually, she's a lot, obviously,

and she's really out there. But it's still the same as what we saw last year, where she's still in a place of, like, people are filming me. People are watching things. They're doing things without my permission. And I don't really like that because it's almost like she's very sensitive to just kind of being vulnerable. So this is okay. You know, I understand why her brain goes to that.

Why she was freaking out in the first place is, you know, anybody's guess based on like all the things that she's been going through in the last couple years. I think it's simply the comparison of how she felt when Alexis was threatening videos that John Jansen had. I think it's that's bringing up, yeah. Correct. So what we need Katie to do, because she's not going to be able to apologize when Shannon's in this state, she might never be able to apologize because Shannon doesn't really, you know, Shannon's saying that she's worse than Alexis is crazy. But I let her feel her feelings. You're not really going to be able to crack that shell. Katie tried, kind of.

And she tried to go at it from some sort of logical standpoint, but she was still doing the, I'm going to explain everything instead of just apologizing. She started off with an apology, and then it kind of got to the point where Shannon was just going off. So then Katie felt the need to start explaining. There's nothing you can do in that situation. There's simply just nothing that Katie could have done in that situation. So I need her to start not caring. Just write it off. I don't give a fuck.

Whatever. Shannon, go feel, whatever you're going to feel. And if she starts doing that, it might be better for her. Maybe she'll get some respect. That's really all it is. But now, I don't think that she would have been able to get an apology out. So I can't say that she was doing a bad job apologizing. I agree.

And I also agree with the Shannon thing. I think it's, I don't think the actual act. Yes, I think it's a huge invasion of privacy. And I do think it's really fucked up to record anybody, whether it be voice or video without their consent. Agreed.

I do not know if it's illegal because that law changes state to state. And we hear on every show when somebody reports somebody, that's illegal. And then people are actually in the state of New Jersey or whatever. So I don't know the legality of it. What I do know is, yes, it's fucked up. And yes, it's obviously going to bring up some past emotions from the John

Jansen thing and all of that. So I get her visceral reaction to the whole thing. Now, she loses me when she starts comparing Katie to John Jansen and saying that she's the most evil, evil person that's ever been on the show worse than Alexis. That's an overreaching. That's too much. But at the end of the day, you're 100% correct. We need to see a pivot from Katie to recognize like okay this one may i may never come back with uh with shannon you need to stop caring about what the group thinks because i also think what's biting her in the ass is the fact that she's trying to resolve these things not doing the best job i'm sorry but and people are seeing her as vulnerable and and weak because they're like well we don't have to take anything she

says seriously because anytime something happens she backs down so no we're going to hammering her. I think if she's stuck, that's what like the, the comparison of Tamara and her that Jen made earlier, the difference is if you're going to go toe to toe to with Tamara, she's going to go 150% the opposite direction. She's going to do everything she can to convince you and the viewers at home that she's not in the wrong and she will never accept the feat no matter what. Katie, if you press her a little bit, she immediately apologizes and her apology's not good. So then you have extra ammo. So I think that for her to progress on the show and for her to make a dent in the group, she needs to cling to Jen. That's a good friendship. And she needs to stop caring

about the other ladies in the group. And in turn, they will probably flock to her more. They'll probably be more likely to get a friendship or relationship with her. Yeah. Because they don't think that they, she's a pushover. That's what it is. So she's not a pushover. Yeah. She's low hanging fruit right now. She's, she's available for attacking at this point. Anything that she does or says or whatever is just fully open. It's just hunting season for her right now. Yeah. And it's just easy for people like, yes, Tamara got involved, but Tamara just did like the slightest little thing just because she knows. One, it would fuck with Shannon who she wants to fuck with. I don't care what anybody says. And two, it's easy to just throw Katie under the bus because now Tamara can just walk away. Everybody

can talk about, oh, Tamara did that again. She didn't really do a whole. lot. She just left a little nugget of information out there, sent people into a spiral because it was just easy to do. But it's a problem when you've got people on the cast like Emily, like Gina, that are able to get to Katie so quickly. These are low people. These are people on the totem pole that really do not shake the world at all. They do not resonate with the audience at all. And yet they're getting to you. Those people can't get to you. If timer got to you, it's your second season. Understandable. That's going to happen. That's understandable. I've Heather Debrough got to you because she got activated and you tried to go after her.

You tried to go toe to toe to with her and you got knocked down. That happens. That's expected. But the fact that these other women on the cast who just have no bearing in the grand scheme of things are able to get to you so fast, that's a problem. You're going to have to figure that one out. And honestly, that makes a lot of sense why Gina and Emily were so activated by all of this because they finally found somebody that they're like, oh, we're winning.

Let's just keep hammering this one home. it's working, it's working, and we're watching it home going, this shit's not that serious and you guys are really ramping it up every scene. That actually makes a lot of sense. Because you actually have an opening for the first time in your lives. So there you go. Right, because you're not going to step to Tamara like that. You're not going to step to Heather like that.

We've seen you try, you back down eventually. And then you go and try to grovel to get back in their good graces. Like it's a tale as old as time. You found somebody lower on the totem pole than you and you're taking advantage of it. But that's the funniest part is it's not landing. When it's not landing, we're like, everybody's bored. Yeah, exactly. So I don't know, dude.

It's going to be an interesting, interesting season. Like I said, I actually like this episode just because I don't know what to expect. I don't know which way is up right now. It's confusing. I'm hoping that Katie kind of draws a line in the sand finally and sticks up for herself and stops trying to get in everyone's good graces. I want to see Jen continue to take center in this. center stage in this group because she's starting to do that.

And I think that that's exciting because with her at the helm versus a Tamara or Heather's not really at the helm, I would say Tamara probably. The show shifts because you have somebody that's nice. You have somebody that actually likes other people in that. And I think that other castmates would feed off of that a little bit. And it would be much less of what we're used to seeing in let's find something. to dig up we're going to hammer at home the whole season we're going to take sides and then we're going to do horrible things to try to prove a point such as bringing up katie and her custody

thing trying to knock shannon down while she's trying to get sober like that's where we end up constantly with this show so i would like to see it shift but a shift yeah shift is very necessary at this point but it's just it's so tough with this cast and i know you know this show does numbers, but it's, it does numbers because it's O.C. It's the Beverly Hills effect, too. Like the same idea. It's the Beverly Hills effect, exactly, where we can sit here and we can talk about how they have a real problem on their hands with this cast. They're never going to see it because the numbers are just so high.

That's really all it is. It's like, even as far as like, yeah, Heather's checked out. Heather wants to go somewhere else. Then send her somewhere else. Send her the Beverly Hills. Fine. Whatever. Tamara moves the needle because she's Tamara.

I just like don't know what else. Like Shannon's a problem. The whole cast is a problem. It's just uninspiring is what I would say. Wow. There are things I want to see just like what you said. I want to see a turn of the tables. I want to see somebody like Jen up there high enough calling the shots,

going toe to toe to toe with Tamara because that's what we need. We need a shake up. If you're not going to change the cast, we need the actual cast to shake up themselves. So let's see what we have. I mean, we have the setup, whether they can follow through or not is a different story. But, yeah, time will tell.

Time will tell. That's all I got. Do you have anything else? Nope. All good. Well, that's our show. These bros got to go. American history is full of infamous tales that continue to captivate audiences, decades, or even hundreds of years after they happened. On the infamous America podcast, you'll hear the true stories of the Salem Witch Trials and the escape attempts from Alcatraz, of bank robbers like John Dillinger and Pretty Boy Floyd, of, of, killers like Lizzie Borden and Charles Starkweather, of mysteries like the Black Dahlia and D.B. Cooper, and of events that inspired movies like Goodfellas, Killers of a Flower Moon,

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