Bros & Shows - Signing Off Down South...For Now (Southern Charm Reunion 1 & 2 Full Recap)

Episode Date: March 27, 2026

What's up bros?? We're taking full credit for Bravo FINALLY cutting something down to just 2 reunion episodes and we take full advantage with a mega recap of both reunion episodes for you guys. We bop all around Charleston from the love triangle to Craig & Charley's "relationship" all the way back (of course) to Craig & Austen's relationship. We leave no stone unturned on this one and probably dig a little too deep analytically speaking but hey that's what podcasts are for. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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We'd love to talk. Business. Since we weren't unable to do our Southern Charm Reunion Part 1 recap last week, now that Shooter's back from Vacay, we figured we just put it all into one big old episode, since they were nice enough to only do two

reunion episodes, which we very much appreciate. We're going to do a super duper, mega awesome, super loaded pack double reunion episode featuring the Bronfros. Yeah, I mean, is this like a sign of good things to come that they're only going to do two episodes for reunions for shows like this? Because that would be wonderful. I mean, even the shows that deserve it, even the seasons that deserve, quote unquote, three-part reunions, they always kind of fuck it up in some way.

So why not just pack it all into two episodes? Let's just do it that way. That makes us so much happier. And honestly, the way reunions go, one episode for us for recapping it is more than enough. Yeah. As there's a drive in a deep left field by Castellanos. Oh, man, it's 8 o'clock. And so that'll make it a.

I don't need the spotlight. I shine just fine. Hi, I'm Karma. And yes, I am a bitch. Brov Bros. Good evening, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Brab Bros. Your favorite podcast from the Bros.

For everybody, for whoever wants to listen, I'm your co-host, Steele Russell, joined as always by the ever-fleeting reunion Magouter. What's up, dude? Welcome back. I figured you were going to... What do you mean, welcome back? This is like our fifth episode this week. No, to reunion season.

Oh, I was like, because you said something about vacation. of the first and I'm like, okay, it's like Thursday. I just said the vacation thing because you were on vacation last week for the Southern Charma episode, which is more than pertinent. It makes total sense. But also, I thought you were going to rhyme fleeting with my last name and you didn't do that. So that kind of threw me off. Yeah, yeah, you always do that.

What gives? Leeter McGeter. Reunion Goots is like a go-to. That's a classic. We haven't had a reunion in a while. So I say, welcome back to reunion season. comma, goots. Yeah.

But yeah, dude, if they could just do this with all their shows, just give us two episodes. Like the three part thing, it never hits, even during good seasons. It just doesn't hit. This was a pretty good season. There was a lot to talk about. And I thought for these two reunion episodes, I mean, when you boil it down, it's like five people talking. The rest of the people were just kind of chiming in like, Whitner, you get a little checking with him in the second episode. And it's like, okay, how was your time on the show?

Cool. Now you're just going to interject when we talk about Austin and Craig. Like that was pretty much everybody else's all I need though. That's all we really need, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's not honestly, that's exactly what I need. And that's what the fluff gets removed when you do two episodes.

Because if we had a third episode, we would have a lot of like, and I'm not knocking it, obviously. Great for Madison. But we've talked about Madison and her baby and her family for like 10, 15 minutes. And this we just get like, you know, five minutes. How's he going? How's baby life? You good?

All right, cool. Let's move on to the stuff that really matters. And then you have the newbies coming in and obviously Charlie was inserted, but we didn't really talk to Wittner. Shep barely talked to this entire reunion. This is the easiest reunion for Shep. And it was an easy season for Shep, to be honest. So it works out really well the way they do this.

And honestly, it works out well for us that we're covering both because we're going to jump around so much. When we're talking about Craig and Austin, there's stuff that was said in the first episode, the second episode, we can just do it all together. It's way more congruent this way. And I feel like the biggest takeaway, I would rather two action-packed episodes,

and maybe we miss a couple of things that we don't get to talk about that aren't like top of the list. Maybe it's like somewhere in the middle. It's like, oh, man, we didn't talk about that, but it's all right. We'll listen to podcasts. Do you think they missed anything?

No, they didn't in this. And I think that that works with the Southern Charms, the Southern Hospitalities. Like those shows, I think it works. I think it works with a Housewives show. It's just because of the duration in which they film. There tends to be more to discuss. They don't need to discuss everything they do at the reunion.

It's mostly fluff. That's my entire point. I'm just saying I would be willing to miss out on certain conversations to get two episodes that hit like this. At no point was I not engaged for these two episodes. I'm not saying it was like the best reunion ever, but it was wildly entertaining. And I was locked in. I was taking notes. I wasn't checking my phone.

Things were happening. And that's what like you said when you get a two to twofer. we get to talk about the important shit and we don't get bogged down by talking about Wittner's ranch for 20 minutes. For example, in a three-parter, we would have talked about the farm for way too long. And we don't need to. Yeah. Right?

That's just worthless. So I thought it was well done. I thought Andy did pretty good. I think he was like just run of the mill this episode or these both like I like to grade him on his reunions. This was standard. He didn't do anything stupid. So we love that.

He didn't have to hold anybody. Yeah. He didn't have to do a whole lot on us. And usually when it comes to the Southern Charm reunion, he's, he's like in love with Craig and Austin. So he gives them a pass for so many different things. He didn't have to do that this year. Like there was no motive.

There was no like, all right, you know, we'll just move on real quick so that we can save Craig from getting bashed, which he didn't actually get bashed in either episode, even though he walked off the first part of the reunion saying that he was thinking about not coming back because he can't take it anymore. But usually the way that Andy operates with this,

he gives them a pass for a lot of behaviors. And then he ends up getting called out for it. But this episode or these two episodes, you just kind of let them talk. And that's what we were doing. Like, all right, go at it. Like have it out. This is what we're going to do.

And then you get the chime in from other people who are not really involved that we're there that can like add a little bit more context to whatever situation. And it just it flowed really well. I think that's the best way to put it is it really flowed from start to finish. And we didn't really have any stoppages. We didn't have any like fluff or bullshit stories in between. It was all really good content. that we all really wanted to talk about.

And I feel like that first episode, especially, it just kind of hooked you right away. It's like, all right, cool. We're going to get right into all of it. We're going to talk about all the hot button issues, and then I know it's going to devolve from there. And that's honestly the way to do it with this group. Yeah, and it's with the second part,

the first part felt like set up, because the second part, we essentially talk about the same things, just in more depth. It gets more emotionally charged. We start to dissect it a bit more. So it's almost like we teed it up. in episode one, then we knocked it down in episode two, which is a good way to do it as well.

And we're going to break this down not so much chronologically as it, it's just going to be like major points that were discussed because I think like you said, you can break it down to about five people. We've got Austin and Craig, obviously. Then he got Charlie and Craig, Charlie and Sally, Sally and Craig, Charlie and Sally and Craig. That whole debacle, the Austin and Sally and Audrey situation is another one. And then the chime ins throughout, like the Vanita and Craigs, obviously we got to talk about that for a while.

But we might bop around a little bit. But that's the whole point of this. So let's jump right in. We're going to hit all the major points is really what we're going to do. We're going to make sure that we don't leave any stones unturned. And it's almost like they did this for us because they knew that we weren't going to record last week. So, hey, let's just set them up, knock them down. And then we'll give it to the broad bros to just go ahead and just analyze everything.

That's what they thought. That's definitely what production was thinking when they did this. Thanks, guys. Thanks for thinking of us. Look, there's a non-zero chance that they didn't listen to one of our podcast complaining about three-parters. Like, yeah, it's not a high chance. It is non-zero. It's non-zero.

Everything is technically non-zero. Correct. And that's the world that I live in. That's the universe that I live in. Anywho, let's start. Where do you want to start? I'm going to start with Austin and Craig? Yeah, I mean, as all things do on this show, let's start with Austin and Craig.

Well, the big thing, obviously, that they're discussing is, they're currently at. That's always the big question. They're where they always are at the end of a season. They're always not friends anymore. It's always been too much. We just can't stand each other. So like whatever, we just have to go our separate ways, this, that you're going to watch throughout the reunion as Whitner points out. Whitner had some great chimed. I thought he did a good job in his first reunion. But he points out throughout, he's like, they're doing it right now. The push-pull thing. Like they pretty much swore off of each other. Now they're giggling like, like school children, like smirking at each other. It's like,

Like, yes, this is the toxic relationship that we've all grown to love and hate. But my big issue out of the gate, I think if anybody on all of Bravo TV needs to watch the season back, it's Craig. Because Craig's reality is not real reality, as so many people on this stage point out. So if somebody should sit back and look to be like, this is what we're talking about, Gregory. He needs to watch the show. Like, they need to watch the show. No, yeah. One of my favorite things that he does.

And he's said this before. And we've heard this from other people. He goes into, I think it's at the end of episode two. Yeah, I'm doing the work. I'm putting in all the work. I'm trying to figure out what I need to do and what our next steps are. I'm just not in a place where I can watch back this show. I just can't watch back my behavior.

But the entire first and second episode, he was excusing all of his behaviors and saying that you guys pushed him. brought him to get to that point. And he gets to that point. And it's like, okay, so you can discuss everything that leads up to it. And then when you say and when we start talking about the blowups that you have along the way, it's, well, you guys push me to get there. Always.

That's the work that you should be doing is on the reaction. You've gotten to the point where you can sit down at dinner and be like, yeah, you know, really got to work on my reactions. But then we get to the reunion where, you know, obviously it's not therapy. I mean, chat GPTs right around the quarter. You can just go to your dressing room. but he's sitting there like, yeah, I can't watch back that behaviors because like, I just don't want to see myself doing that.

I know I did it. I understand what I did. It was wrong. It's like, okay, that in your way is, at least to you anyway, that's you taking accountability. If it's everybody else, it's like, we're past. We are very well past the accountability stage. It's the fix it stage that we should be at. And you keep saying you're fixing it, but there's so many indications that you're not fixing

anything. I don't know what's going on. No. And that's kind of his go. too, right? He uses a lot of emotionally triggering words and phrases, very therapeutic phrases that he's learned from chat GPT more than likely. And he, that's how he talks, right? Like, that's, and I don't know if that's really how he talks in real life. I wouldn't be shocked if this is his new way to communicate is just through therapeutic terminology, because it softens

the blow of everything, I suppose. But the big thing that we get into in episode one with Austin and Craig, I have a feeling. that the entire season started off with Austin feeling some type of way because of the conversation that I have to go back to all the fucking time and I don't like it, but the addiction thing, right? And I'm not talking about in regards to like the alcohol. I think it's more than that. I think the alcohol is a good representation of you use this situation to manipulate. I think it's accelerant.

Yeah. Yeah. Right. As they talk about later, I think the anger is the issue. I think alcohol accelerates. I'm more saying the alcohol represents an excuse. It represents a way out of taking accountability and being held to a certain standard that you want to hold the rest of the group to.

But when they try to do it to you, you roll your eyes and say, okay, he did that probably 15 times this entire episode. When someone had a criticism, I roll okay. But my point is, Austin, I think from the jump, looking at Craig's behavior earlier, in the season, probably in the off season. I think he looks back at this conversation kind of as like the jumping off point of like, oh, this guy just fucking gaslit the shit out of me, manipulated me so he could get out of taking accountability for things that I wanted to talk to him about.

When he talked about that on stage, that may have been episode two. That to me felt deeper. That to me felt like a root issue of where they're currently at. Yeah. And the funny thing is if you look at any social media right now, they're friends again. So it doesn't really matter. But they're on Washington Live together like a week ago.

I know. Well, anytime that they show up for Watch What Happens Live, I think they just put on a face and just get through it. It's like 40 minutes that they have to be together. So it's not a big deal. But they're traveling together. They're in Colorado. They're doing the same trip that Craig did last year when we found out that him

and Page broke up and all that shit happens. So, yeah, I'm not even here to talk about their friendship. We know what their friendship is. But for Austin in particular, I can see it too. I understand he's struggling with it. And the problem is it. It's not really a problem because, you know, I don't expect him to be there.

I don't know if he has any like any sort of access to something like this, but he can't really articulate what we've said pretty much the whole year where it's like, yeah, dude, you sat down and manipulated me with that conversation. You said that you were an addict so that I would stop and I would back off and I wouldn't push you, but then you come back and you do all of this. And look, I mean, if he is an addict and he's doing all of these things and he's going to be like flip it and go back and forth, that's addict's being. behavior. That happens. Yes, it is. That is exactly what happens. So maybe he is,

maybe he isn't. But he did say he was and he said it to Austin in a moment of, hey, man, give me a moment. Like back off of me. Let me get through this. I'll try to figure it out and I'll get to the other side. And then when he gets to the other side, it's, well, that doesn't fucking matter. Like I was drunk and I was doing this and like nothing I said really matter at that point. You shouldn't feel any type of way about all of this. So Austin's obviously demoralized by that conversation and he keeps going back to it. So every time that Craig does something, Austin goes back to that conversation. He's like, I don't know what to think about this. I don't know if I press you. I don't know if you were lying to me to get me off your back.

I think it's probably the former where I should be like, dude, you have a fucking problem. You told me so yourself. But I don't know if I want to do that because it might not be worth it. So Austin's got to be spinning so many fucking ideas in his head at all times. So that's why I really don't blame him for not being able to articulate to Craig to the audience, to Andy, to everybody sitting on that stage. exactly how he feels because we can sit really far away from all of this, just watch it on TV and we're like, yeah, that's the problem. That's what's going on. But to be involved in that situation,

to be the quote unquote best friend in that situation, it's difficult for Austin. He doesn't know what to do. I know. And, you know, I find it hard to understand people that watch this and don't think Craig manipulate situations. I just, I don't understand how you can't see it.

Even in this moment when, when Austin brings up, like you told me that you had a drinking problem. There's been a lot of booze involved since then. Well, that was a year later. Yep. Oh, I, I didn't know I had a time frame. This is great. I can drink again.

It's actually pretty miraculous. I know. What a miracle. You share your secret. Help us. Help us all out here because, my God, how did you figure it out in a year and go back to drinking? That's it.

Bingo. The empath spray must also cure substance abuse. I want to talk about the empaths pray for a second because it's really funny in two ways. The empath spray, first off, he goes, yeah, I got it from this guy down in Nashville. He gave me this empath spray. So I used it today. And then when we're having the narcissist conversation a little bit later, he's like, so you don't believe he's really pressing on that.

So he definitely read the definition of narcissist, assuming that somebody was going to call him a narcissist. So he had it ready to go. the whole fucking Webster's dictionary just at his disposal. He's like, so you don't think I'm an empath? If you were an empath, would you need empath spray? Let's live on his level for a second. Do you need the spray?

Like, no, I don't think you do. Or is that like it really strong? And then you want to take steroids to get stronger. Is that kind of what it is? Like, I'm a strong empath. So let me add some spray to it. Then I'm really going to be. And also, why would you need the empath spray on a stage

for people that are going, quote unquote, going after you and burying you? Do you really want to be empathetic towards those people? Probably not. So what's the impound spray for? What are we doing? I don't know. But again, like therapeutic terms, right? He speaks from this place of the man of Francis. I think what it does. Yeah, exactly. And I think what it does is he's attempting to disarm people with how he speaks. And like you kind of see it. You can watch it happen on this state. You can watch him disarm people. People that are pissed off at him. He's got this charm. He does. He's got this Southern

charm about him. I'll say it. And it works. We watch it happen with Sally in Mexico, where she started to like kind of lead the way, lead the charge on the apology from him. Like you just, he's good at this. He's very good at this. And when he uses these words, when the narcissistic conversation comes up, do you think Craig's a narcissist? Unequivocally, yes, by the way. And Austin's like, yeah, I do. That's so fucking mean. That's the meanest thing you could ever. How insulting. Brother. you told your quote unquote friend to his face that he's his life is a dead end that he hasn't done shit ever you've talked a lot of shit about austin and i'm not saying that one is worse than the other right i'm just saying you seem to forget all of these things and then you inform us that you

don't watch the show back which makes a lot more sense but now i'm curious if you do watch the show back what are you seeing because we have people all over the stage charlie Yeah, your definition of what's going on does not align with mine a lot of the time. And this is kind of a shared thing. A lot of people see how he is interpreting things. They're like, well, that's not what happened, Craig. And when you tell Craig that, his move is always some kind of spiritual sidestep. Well, I'm working on it.

What do you expect me to be good? No, I just want you to say, I'm sorry, period. Not I'm sorry, but I'm sorry, but you guys kept pushing. So much further. Right? the conversation would just kind of dwindle, it would fizzle out pretty quickly if you had like an actual heartfelt apology. But again, because the way he spins it, especially in his own brain, he views these people as attacking him. He views everybody on stage.

Like you guys are attacking me, which like I've already done the mental gymnastics of like, yeah, what would this season look like if Craig wasn't there? I don't really know. I mean, I assume there would be other things going on. But for this season in particular, not a lot happens if you remove Craig. There's not a lot going on. Like you got Austin and Sally and then what do you have? a whole lot, to be honest. So I agree in that sense.

But the other problem that I have is I think Bravo and maybe reality TV as a whole, they have a narcissist problem. Everybody's a narcissist now. I agree with that. I don't know. I mean, I'm in no fucking position to be like, oh, this person is, this person is and this person. Everybody brings it up.

It's a word that just gets thrown around all the time. It's the new trigger word. It's just so goddamn annoying. Like, shut up, figure out a new word, grab a psalis and just figure out something else. Like, take another gig. For narcissists. I don't know if there is one. I mean,

that would actually be the most narcissistic thing ever is if there was no synodin for it. Wouldn't it? That would be so cool, actually. Dude, that would be meta as hell. Just fucking metamaxing, bro. Dude, metamaxing all of the place.

No, yeah. Well, they still don't really hit the... Yeah. Like, the closest relevance is like egotist, egomaniac, jerk, egocentric. That's not... Egosentric would be a much better word to go after people like that.

But it's softer. Is that why it's better because it's softer? No, I think it's just like, I feel like... Everyone on these shows are egocentric. They're on reality TV. They have to be in a certain degree. Correct. Yeah, that is extremely true.

But I don't know. I'm just tired of fucking hear it, to be honest. And again, Craig had that definition ready to go, assuming it was going to happen. That shows you that the people who are egocentric, the people who are the head of, you know, creating issues and making it all about themselves on these shows, they're expecting you to call them a narcissist. I mean, every housewife reunion that we've had in the last like six years, somebody's a narcissist. They go to Miami. They were all calling each other narcissists. So I don't know. That one was funny because everybody was a narcissist. We had a narcissist party.

It was great. It's when they use it as like a dig. It's like, I'm really going to get under your skin. This did get under Craig Skinner. At least it seems it did. But I just don't know. I mean, again, I don't care about Austin and Craig's friendship because they're going to be fine and then they're going to be fine. And then they're going to be fine again. When it comes to Craig not watching back the show. I've seen him before. Maybe not this season or it was like last year. He said before like they didn't show any of the parts of what I was doing in my day to day life. They didn't show me down working. They didn't show me at the event that this year. He did say that this year. So yeah, perfect. That's exactly what I'm talking about. So you are at the very least having people send you

updates. Like I don't know if your assistant is sending you updates or you've got somebody working for you that's looking at all the shit and being like, hey, they didn't show this. They didn't show that but in some way in some semblance yeah exactly or he's just flat out lying and saying that he doesn't watch it when in reality he's watching it in the dark every Thursday night or he's he's that's what I mean I mean he's not watching and he's making up that they're not showing the good parts of me this oh that's a good point yeah that is a really good point that I mean that's definitely possible as well because I don't know any other way that they wouldn't be showing especially when they have those goofy little clips in the beginning of episode.

So I don't know. I think that, and we talked about this before we even started recording, all in all, I think Craig kind of got out of this for union. Like I know that he had the theatrics. He had the dramatics. He had the dramatics. He threatened to leave the show a couple times. Like that's obviously very like give me sympathy.

Like I'm going to leave you guys if you don't back off of me. Like that's what he does. That's manipulation. But again, they just stop. They always get to a point and they feel. like either they've made their point and he's not going to be able to progress past that. But if you really want to get to him, if you really want him to actually understand what's going on, you do have to go past that line.

And they never go past that line. They always stop. And they just kind of like let him go. Like I thought this season in particular, I thought he was going to get bashed to hell. And then this was pretty tame. Like, yeah, I mean, they talked about him a lot. But did he really get bashed? Not really.

Is it? To me, it just defaults to after you continue to talk to him about the same thing for a while. and you watch his responses to every topic, right? Regardless of who it is, it could be about the Vanita situation, which I'm not saying that Vanita's not blameless in that at all. She started a lot of shit there. So that is not what I'm saying for sure. But I'm just naming different scenarios that we had.

In every scenario, he acts the same. So when someone else goes, it's my turn now to talk about what I have going on with Craig, it's the same exact conversation. So at a certain point, I'm assuming they're just like, look, especially the veterans are like, we've seen this year in and year out. Nothing's going to change. We know what he's going to say. It's not worth it. That's where I think we get to.

It's just not worth it for them. Which I get in every social setting in normal life. I fully understand that. We got to push. Reality TV, you have to push, but also it's an excuse to just go no holes barred. Just get after them. Like, this is fine. That's what it is.

they're scared of him. They are frightened of him. They're worried about, okay, if I go too hard at him at the reunion and he comes back and he's filming me next year, what am I in for? Is he going to go after me? For Austin in particular, like, what secrets does Craig have that he can reveal about Austin? Same with Cep. Same with everybody on the cast who refuses to call him out.

And maybe even Sally, like throw Sally in there because I just feel like there's so many different ways that they could have approached this. And it's like, you guys just did the same thing that you always do. I would agree that Austin had a much better season in terms of standing up to Craig and standing up for himself. But when it comes to the reunion, when it's like time to really just take the gloves off and get after it and just talk about everything, they always hit a line and then they just stop. And then, yeah, obviously he's going to act like it's the worst thing ever.

But it could have been so much worse. Yeah, I agree. And, you know, I do think that Austin's got a bit of a victim complex. I think Craig does too on that matter. But I do think that he leans into it sometimes rather than pushing. It's easier to just be like, whoa, is me a little bit instead of being like, well, time out. I've got something to say about that, which I wish, you know,

like Beneta said, stand up for yourself more because he gets to the point where he's like, all right, Craig, like, this is what I'm talking about. Yeah. Instead of going that route, expound on that, right? Go further into what you're talking about. Not that it's going to land on Craig, but it'll probably feel good to get it out and actually articulate exactly what's going on. But when you look through like the instances in this episode alone, right?

And I know I said unequivocally, Craig's a narcissist. I don't know if Craig's a narcissist. And like the other side of this coin is like we, Shooter and I both had like pseudo friendship with Craig. Like we've talked to him a bunch of times. You went to their show. We've always liked Austin and Craig. So the people in the comments are like,

you guys just want to bash Craig. I'm rooting for Craig. He's not giving me a lot of hopeless shit. And when he goes after something that's very personal to me in recovery and addiction and uses that as a shield and then take shots all the next season. And then in the reunion says, it was a year later, like that, I take that personally. And maybe that's my own fault. I don't know.

No, it's not your fault necessarily, but of course, like, who could expect you not to take offense to that? You know what I mean? And on my end, it's, I get annoyed with Craig, not even necessarily because it's Craig or Craig's own actions. I get annoyed with the whole cast. I get annoyed with the whole show because I know that there's so much more. Like even Andy said, I feel like this is the best group that we've had.

You guys are all hanging out together. You guys go off camera. You're going out on the weekends. you're hanging out when there's no filming going on. Like they are pretty close knit and they're a bunch of very interesting people in so many different ways. And every single season, it's how can I make my storyline this and that it always becomes Craig and Austin centric? And a lot of times, in recent memory, it's been just Craigcentric. I'm just kind of tired of it.

I know a lot of people still want to do it. And Andy even said it like pretty much verbatim. This is what we want to see. This is why we tune into Southern Charm is because of Austin and Craig. And it's just not. Like, I'm bored. I'm just downright bored with the whole thing. So again, it's not really, like, I'm not attacking Craig personally.

I think he's kind of a fuckhead. But like, who on reality TV isn't a bit of a fuckhead, to be honest? So he's going to have his moments, whatever. I'm just tired of the stick. And look, I'm assuming Craig and Austin are probably tired of the stick too, because they do pit them against each other in certain situations all the time. So let's just move past it. Let's move on.

You guys can be friends or not be friends, but stop giving them so much camera time and stop putting them against each other. I think that's a big part of it. I think it's going to go on regardless of whether or not they're front and center, but we could point the camera at a different storyline. But since, you know, we have to talk about the reunion and a lot of things happened, we will, hopefully this is the last time that it's like a Craig-centric recap. That would be lovely.

But, you know, to tie a bow on the Austin thing, Austin and Craig, like, as you look through their interactions on this stage, and this is a part of it where I'm like, all right, well, maybe he's not a narcissist. Maybe he's just delusional as fuck and doesn't understand. Because when Craig explains his side of things, he's either so narcissistic that it's incredibly convincing that he actually believes these things. I don't think that's it.

I think that he genuinely sees things happening and occurring differently. I don't think that he recognizes, like when he's like, I checked Sally. Like I had to, like in front of her mom. No, dude, you fucking yelled at Sally in front of her mom. and made her cry. Well, that's not how, you know, like you have all of these, these events where he's involved and his recap of it is nowhere close to what actually happened and what, how he affected the person's emotions.

Charlie's the best example in the world. That's my favorite example because you look at this, they hung out for what? Two months, maybe. They dated. They went on like two dates, probably a couple more off camera. I'll give Craig that one. but you look at that situation, get to the end of the situation,

and he says you love bombed me. It's like in what fucking world? What are you talking about? See, I have a very sneaky suspicion that Charlie is a little shady. I think that there's more there. I agree. Just the way that that whole thing played out,

like I actually laughed out loud at the love bombing thing because he's like, who could have thought that I'd be the one sitting here with the correct term of love bombing? It's like, well, I mean, I don't think so. I mean, you say that you don't have any moves, but you're a little love bombing too. And you were doing it to Sally, you guys even got there. So you go get to sit there and look at her and be like, yeah, you know, she loved bomb me.

Like maybe she did, maybe she didn't. Maybe it was a mutual love bombing. I don't fucking care. It doesn't really matter because it amounted to nothing. And it doesn't matter at all. And we all agreed when it came down to it with the Mexico thing. Of course she's going to move on. Like that was the right move.

That is the correct, which we never see on reality TV. TV, usually we see what Sally would probably do, which when we were joking about it when they were in Mexico, when Sally and Craig are talking and Craig apologizes to Sally in that moment, we looked at Sally and we're like, fuck, she's, she's still got the hots for him. She would give him another chance in a heart rate if it were to come around and Austin was not on board with dating her. Like, it would happen in a heartbeat. So yes, that's very funny.

But when it comes to Charlie, when she did that, I'm like, that's the right move. Like, no, you're wrong, Craig. Like you doing that and blowing up, every person. in the world, look at that and be like, yeah, I don't want to date this person seriously. I don't want this person, especially now knowing when we talk about this in a second, with him yelling at Sally in front of her mom. Like that was something that everybody saw. So Charlie was privy to that, still gave him a chance, then saw the thing in Mexico,

and then decided to drop him. So no, I'm not buying into the whole love bomb situation, nor do I really care. No, but I think my bigger issue, you know, especially when she starts to get upset and emotional, and then you look at like the stage of the, a whole i like austin you know that yeah we have too many fuck boys from charleston telling women how they feel and that bothered the shit out of me because you have uh kyle cook moves down there oh god i know right he probably will but i've been thinking about for like that makes a lot of sense unfortunately that does make a lot of sense um wow that's a good call and a man is

in the summer house and in the city and kyle goes to southern charm that makes so much sense that's such an easy trade. Wow. God, I wish that. I'll get back to my point. I need a second. But my point is, you know, the best way to sum it up, he's telling Charlie, you know, all of these things are so close and like you're, it's not fair for you to say it was all

Mexico. Brother, it was all Mexico. She may have been one foot in one foot out, but then you're going to take it a step further and arguably blame Charlie for the van blow up. Well, as she said, she was. one foot in, one foot out, so I already felt rejected. And, oh, well, it was me, you felt rejected. But here's the biggest takeaway for me because Charlie's telling him to his face.

It was Mexico. That was the turning point. That's when I decided I don't want to date this guy. By telling her that it's not fair for you to say that, your biggest argument on stage, Craig, to everybody, that's how I feel. These are my feelings. I'm telling you how I felt about our relationship. No, you're saying slimy things under the guy.

of talking about your feelings trying to manipulate the situation. But the biggest point, you are talking about your feelings and you expect everybody to respect your feelings. Charlie tells you her feelings. Sally tells you her feelings. You question those. You tell them. That's not how you feel. That's not why. But we're supposed to take your feelings into account and believe you wholeheartedly. But no one else's feelings on the stage matter. Only your feelings. That again does not bode well for the narcissist argument. That doesn't make sense. That's manipulative. that's not fair and that's fucking stupid. Yeah.

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The boring takes just the tea. New episodes every week. If it's trending, we're talking about it. This is Roxanne and Chantelle. Let's get into it. Now we'll get back to the rest of our episode. I think we, you know, they're obviously going to come up again as we talk about other stuff. But I think we got to the root of that one enough, at least how we feel about the whole situation.

Yeah. So where do you want to head next there, pal? Should we talk a little Sally and Austin? Oh, you want to go love triangle? Then we'll go south. That'll lead us into the Love triangle, Sally Austin. Yeah, that makes sense.

That'll be chronological. All right, let me get my notes on the Love Triangle. Hold on. I can't remember. Is that one or two? Love Trials at the end of one, I believe. Now, obviously, this was a bit of a wild love triangle. And we watched it from start to finish.

I think the biggest takeaway for me. We are Sally fans here. This is not the biggest takeaway. But just to address this, We are Sally fans. That comes across, obviously, if you listen to this.

Do I think that she is entirely blameless in the whole scenario? No, I don't. But when we look at this thing across the board, how it started out, right?

She feels dejected. And actually, I thought she did a good job of explaining the Charlie part of it all because her biggest concern with that whole thing. Then I thought Madison slammed dunked on both of them,

which was great. But her biggest issue was like, it's not even so much that you were hanging out with Craig, which is bullshit. That was a big part of it, too. But the other part of it was the lying. Like, you didn't tell me. We were all in a group chat together called quote unquote, the cult. It was the hot tub hangout crew. Then you guys split off of the group. You're texting, you're FaceTiming daily. You know I have feelings for the guy. This goes back to the last

episode of the season. We find out that Sally legit texted Charlie saying, I have feelings for Craig. I wish I didn't. So she was very aware of this whole situation. That's where I agree with you. I do think Charlie's a little bit shady because of this situation. Not so much because I don't believe for even half a second that she would love bombed Craig at all. I don't believe that Craig held her hand and she said, I'm not seeing anybody else, Craig. That stuff I don't. No, but that's, you know what?

We need to all get ahead of this one too. No more love bombing. I don't want to hear it. This is probably only the second time that we've heard this at a reunion. No more. We're done with it. I don't want to hear it. You guys are going to use it.

and you're going to use the hell out of it, and it's never going to actually apply. And this is the first time, but I'm cutting it off now. We're done with it. Go on. I think that's, that's, no, no, you're fine. But no, the whole thing with my theory on Sally,

being a little shady or being a little secret. Charlie is, yes, with Charlie. Thank God, this is the last episode. I can't keep doing this. But yeah, my whole thing with Charlie being a little bit shady is this whole situation. She just happens, she says the right thing. Like it does make sense when you say, I wanted to see if I had feelings with this guy outside of you. We all know how Sally was acting.

We all know what was going on. However, we can't ignore the facts. Sally was absolutely into Craig. From what we could see, Craig was clearly into Sally. Once Charlie came along, then Craig lost interest in Sally and started pursuing Charlie, which is not fair. Can you say that again? Louder? Yeah.

It's just it's abnormal to me that people are going to think this. And that's the other funny thing is people will, like, we go after like, we're talking about Craig's behaviors and then we'll be like, yeah, but Sally's fucking great for TV. They take that as us being like Sally's a great person. Like, no, they're not mutually exclusive. They can be great for TV and a terrible fucking person. Not that Sally is a terrible fucking person, but she just does stupid shit. And that's fine. It works.

They work great for TV. But for Charlie, you knew that going into this. We had a whole discussion. We had multiple discussions. Sally downright told you, stay away from Craig. I'm going after him, which funny, weird, but you knew that she was interested and that as soon as you and Craig started talking, you were very secretive about it.

You can spin it into this. I wanted to see if I had any feelings, if it was going to go anywhere, and you were being very negative about Craig. Of course she was being negative about Craig because those two were flirting up a storm until you showed up and he spurned her. She didn't get a warning. She just immediately got left in the dust. with she didn't know what to do.

And you're her quote unquote best friend, which is very funny when Madison says that at the end. But you're her quote unquote best friend. You knew that. You knew all of these things going into it. You didn't give a fuck. Just say that you didn't give a fuck. But instead, you say, well, you know, I just wanted to see what was going to happen. And it all makes sense.

But it doesn't excuse the fact that you did all those things along the way. So that's why I think she's a little sneaky. Yeah, I agree. And I think that that's something that kind of flies under the radar because Craig's a lunatic. Yeah. But when you when you look at the friendship between Sally and Charlie, as you said, like nobody, not one single person watching at home hanging out with you guys on the show reading about this in page six, not one person questioned whether or not Sally had feelings for Craig. She made it very apparent. And that goes back to then like the Craig part of this love triangle.

I think one, I think he loves being wanted. I think that's a big thing. And I honestly can understand after like the page thing, it probably feels good to be like, oh, wow, people do want me. So like that part, I can chalk up to whatever. But in this situation, you're, you're going to make Sally feel insane because you're acting like you never once had feelings. Andy brings up the text message, right?

Well, you could have stayed over. Yeah, you know, but I was saying like, of course you could, you can always stay up. Stop. Please. Like that's not only. are you lying, you're making Sally feel even dumber and she feels stupid as shit. And look, that's not cool. That could have been, and I know again, this is, you know, Monday morning quarterbacking,

but it would have been so much easier to just say, yeah, I, you know, Sally and I, we were flirting. I really liked the attention. I didn't really know if anything was there, but I was enjoying the whole process. And then Charlie came along and I was like, wow, I'm really into her. If you just said that, yeah, I mean, it's going to make. Sally feel like shit in the moment. It's got a sting.

But you've already done much worse by your behaviors leading up to you just exiting stage left to go and hang out with Charlie, that if you just said that and confirmed it, Sally would get over it. At least there's an answer to all of this. Like, okay, thank you. Now I know the funny thing is Sally somehow was so behind the eight ball the entire season on what was going on with Charlie and Craig to the point where she couldn't even fathom the fact that they may have kissed.

Her head blew up at that party. She fucking imploded. So you know what? Maybe not. Maybe I take everything I just said back. But it would for the audience at least be like, thank you, dude. Like, yeah. Like we all know that's what was going on.

And by the way, it's a little, it's a little shitty. But it's not that big of a deal at the end of the day. What you ended up doing by stringing her along and then continuing to string her along while you were talking to Charlie, her best friends, was shitty. It was definitively shitty. If you just cut it off and you were like, yeah, dude, like, I don't know, I'm just kind of into Charlie. I want to let Sally down. If there was any conversation that you could have with Shep or Austin along the way where you said that, you wouldn't have done yourself a lot of favors, but instead you were complicit to it. So that's the other piece of the Charlie thing where Charlie's being very secretive about it. Craig always says, yeah, you know, Charlie just didn't want to talk about it. You're your own man.

You're an adult. You can talk to other people. You're in a reality TV show. Like, this is actually good reality TV if you were to talk about it. But you were complicit in her hiding it. So you can't, that doesn't mean you put it all on Charlie. Like this was Charlie's call. I was staying out of it.

You were flirting with Sally. She's in your hot tub colton. You can tell her. You can tell other people. But you didn't. And you rode that wave until Charlie let you go. And then you started to bash Charlie right afterwards to Sally, where you knew that was going to hit. So the whole thing is completely fucked.

And there was so many ways, like looking back at the season, there's so many train stops where you could have gotten off, could have gotten off, could have gotten off. And you wrote it all the way to the end. And now you're sitting here like, I just don't understand why people are going after me. Why? What do you mean? How do you not? Watch the season for the love of God. Period.

Like that would change hopefully so many things or it wouldn't. It would just like further his delusions. I'm not entirely sure anymore. But I don't know. with Sally, it was just too obvious for you to chalk it up to, and then to say things like, you know,

I was more drawn to her as like a sister. Like, don't do that. That's such a, he seems to think that by him feeling differently about a situation, like that's my feelings, that it exonerates him,

that he's allowed to change the narrative, say what he wants, because that's how I feel about it. But you, you steamrolled Sally. And yeah, like, we can,

play the game because we're going to get the comments from people I know already. It's like, well, Sally was all over and blah, blah, blah. And then she jumped right to Austin and blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Yes, she was. So why? Right. Exactly.

So the fuck what? What's worse? You and Craig being together, you getting dumped and just in like a crazy emotional fashion, like, no, I don't have any feelings towards you. Sorry about the chickens. And then you go after a guy who is now single. and yes, you did make comments before he was single, but he is actually now single,

and now you're throwing yourself at him, or emotionally dumping or leading a girl on and then going with her best friends. What's worse? That's the question to the audience for all the people that are going to give us that shit about Craig. Yeah, it's just that I don't understand how we sidestep all of the obvious issues here,

but it does lead us to Sally and Austin and Audrey, arguably another love triangle. And this made me sad for Sally, like actually sad for Sally. And yeah, again, like, let's understand that, you know, she's an asshole for how she handled this whole thing. She owes Audrey all of the apologies. Her sitting there making faces while they're talking about Audrey is insane. Like, you want to watch what happens live and talked about Austin before they had broken up.

Like, you talked about this guy to matter. Like, it's unbelievable. I just thought of this. If you were going to be with Craig, do you not think that Craig was going to have to field questions and talk about his relationship with Page and how much he misses it? I mean, look at what he said to Charlie. He would have, quote, unquote, chosen Charlie over Page in that moment, even if Page wanted him back. So, like, you would have been in a much bigger world of hurt if you were with Craig and he kept talking about Page or just like reminiscing on his time with that last relationship versus Austin, who was freshly out of a relationship, even said on camera, like, this is the first time I'd had to break up with somebody that I had. actually love for other reasons.

And yeah, again, with this whole situation, Austin could have just kept it simple. Like, I'm sorry. You know what? Like, I got out of a relationship. I, like, I don't know. You could even extend an olive branch to Craig and be like, dude, I understand how you feel. Like, I was in a relationship. It didn't go the way that I wanted it to.

It just really wasn't working out. We couldn't figure the whole thing out. I was pretty downtrodden about the whole thing. And then I realized, like, I can have some fun and I can burn off some steam and I can figure some things out. And unfortunately, Sally was right there. and Sally, I'm sorry, but I just don't see a relationship with you. It was really fun while it lasted.

It was a good time, especially down in Mexico, and then when we got back to Charleston, presumably. So leave it at that. Then he starts like attacking her personal, the character. It was awful. Dude, what the fuck are we doing? Why do you need to go there? And I know the questions are a little leading and you're going to get questions from

Andy and the questions from the fans are all pouring in, but you still don't have to talk about that. You don't have to say anything about Sally's character. That's deplorable. Just leave it. Like, we get it. We understand up until that point where you are. You got out of a longer relationship.

You didn't know what you want. You were kind of spiraling a little bit. And you had Sally right there who was throwing herself at you. We all saw it. You can say that. And then just say, and I don't really know if I want to get into a relationship right now because I couldn't handle the last one. And I broke up with her.

And I got to figure my shit out. All of the normal tropes. Just throw those out there. And that's fine. You can end it right there. But instead, and like, obviously, Sally's, still pining for attention and she's still saying to everybody like I would get into a relationship with him right away. I think we could be endgaming. That's that's brutal to say, but you, Austin,

do not have to be reactionary to that. You can say, I know where she stands. I just, I'm just not ready. And then everybody would understand that you just move on. Instead, you're like, well, I mean, I don't want to be with a bar rat. Yeah, what the fuck. Why? What are you? Why? Like, that was crazy. You owed a bar. It was just crazy. Like the line of, I guess I wasn't questioning. Just like, where he took this conversation. One, I'm proud of Rod and other people on that stage for going to bat for Sally Madison, for pointing out these irregularities in what Austin was saying,

these inconsistencies like, whoa, what do you talk? None of this tracks. Yeah. And I'm glad Madison, as much as probably stung to hear, you sound like you're embarrassed.

All of us watching at home thought the same thing. It's like, wow, this looks like shit. I know what you're doing. You're trying to. rectify the Audrey situation on national TV. Sally doesn't have to to burn down for that. Like you can, she can go after Sally for how she acted in going after Austin. Absolutely.

100%. Austin, you're complicit in that. You don't get to take that route. And you're sitting there saying you turn into such a misogynistic asshole. Like, yeah, it was crazy. You're calling her. No one was asking you to. You know, push to do anything and you still did it. And then you bring a body count? When he said body count, my jaw hit the floor. I was like, we're talking body count right now. Why do you go? Let's talk about your fucking body count, dude. What it was happening? I literally wrote down what the fuck is going on right now. It was so weird how it took a turn. And he starts blaming. Yeah. And he starts blaming people on the stage. It's like, no, all they did was point out what you are doing to Sally. And like, Sally's still sitting there just unfortunately just taking this on the chin and still like, I think he'd be a

husband he'd do this he'd do that and all he's trying to say is like yeah more or less his summation of that was she's not good enough for me and then madison jumping and going you have to act like a wife you want to be a wife why do we hold sally to a different standard this is what pissed me off about a lot of the comments that we got this year well sally's too easy sallies this fuck you like she's allowed to live her fucking life she's a single woman is she a little wacky yeah sure there's a lid for every pot she's allowed to go out and drink three, four nights a week. If that's what she wants to do,

she's allowed to do whatever the fuck she wants. We shouldn't have these standards for her, especially on this stage with Shep, Craig, Austin? Absolutely not. Are we going to sit here and shame her for living her fucking life?

You can get on her about the Audrey shit. Absolutely, that was fucked up. You can say she's quirky and weird, not your cup of tea. I will not sit here and talk about body counts and be a bar rat. This is all.

also like the weird like colloquialism of the south when Madison goes into well maybe you should act like a wife and then you could be a wife yeah fuck that dude right that yeah so she should just be sitting at home and she should just be cooking home cooked meal bare foot and cooking in the kitchen yeah what what are we doing and they're like now now we're playing semantics and we're like how many days a week do you go out how many days like fuck off let her go she's got a good job she's celebrating she's still young she wants to have fun She wants to hook up with people in Charleston. She's not tied down in a relationship. Who the fuck cares? By the way, how are you supposed to get the husband if you're at home cooking meals and not going out and acting like a wife? Like I just, I don't, that one, that one really pissed me off. Because I'm like, shut the fuck up, Madison.

You would be doing the exact same thing. And I love Madison, but you would be doing the same thing if you didn't eat bread. Like, give me a fucking break. You'd be partying. Like, what's the problem? I was so confused. I was so disappointed in Austin. I was like, wow, this is arguably your worst showing in a very long time.

Dude. Like my biggest thing for that whole situation is you didn't have to do anything. Anything. Just you could actually play and you broke up with Audrey. And still, I'm going to say you can play the victim. You could easily play the victim and be like, yeah, my heart was broken. It didn't work out. I didn't know what I wanted.

And I got a little erratic. And I'm sorry, Sally. I still want to be really good friends with you. And then move on. We don't need you. And I know that they all pressured them to like kiss. on stage and talk about their relationship and you get the, the peanut gallery,

like just chiming in like, hey, you guys are fucking like, why don't you just tell everybody? Like, who cares about any of that? It's really what Austin said afterwards. That's the big problem.

Yeah, and I'm glad Andy went to bat for, you know, great job, beautiful, all these great things. Like she would bend over backwards for you. She says as much,

I would do your laundry. I would cook for you, do everything. And Andy's saying like, yeah, she's the catch of a lifetime. Like, I'm sick of the,

you can be not a Sally fan for a lot of reasons that I'll be like, all right, that's fine. Not that. That's fucking dumb. Like it's 2026. Who fucking cares, dude.

What are we talking about? And like you said, so avoidable. So avoidable. Take responsibility for the Audrey thing. Yeah, I burned her with this. It was a bad look.

I feel like shit. She's still pissed off at me, as Rod tells us. Own that. And apologize to Sally. Don't drag. her say any of the things that you said, hey,

just got out of a relationship. I was a little confused, didn't know what I wanted, you were there, we had some fun, I'm not ready. Not, no,

you're a little too loose for me, hon. Like, what the fuck's going on? Like, it was crazy. Where to next, pal?

Should you go Charlie and Craig now? Just knock out all the relationships. Yeah, I guess that would mean that we end on Benita and, Greg, right? Yeah, which is, you know, we can end there.

Yeah. We can end with Madison, too, just a quick touch on, on some of her ship. But yeah, let's go Charlie and. Like going how we expected to. I'm more talking about some of the comments that she made throughout this. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We could talk about that.

Yeah. So let's go with Charlie. First season here, obviously. And yes, being this group is wildly overwhelming. I'm sure it's a lot of quirky people, a lot of big personalities, he's a lot of a lot of backstabbing but you'll get used to it and that's i do think it's funny when craig makes points like you know talk to me in six years i'm like actually that's probably a little valid like there's probably some validity to that one this stuff definitely wears on you but

i do not think that we can blame sally for the downfall of charlie and craig that doesn't make sense if anything craig was the one that was consistently bringing up sally to charlie charlie was trying to avoid the topic as a whole as we know she is currently dating justice from Southern hospitality. But as far as like the her and Craig's situation, at any point from what we saw, did you feel like she led her on, knowing that the downfall was Mexico

and his behavior, not other things that caused this to fall apart? No. I mean, it was kind of a funny thing that we talked about the whole season was they kept acting like they were in this secret relationship and it was really blossoming into something special and there was so much going on, but we didn't see a whole lot from the two of them. So if they did go on more dates, like we probably would have seen it, I would imagine. I mean, yeah, maybe there was a check-in

here and there. So no, along the way, I mean, it just made total sense. Like, yeah, after everything that we heard and all of your behaviors and all the things that were going on, seems like Charlie gave you a pass way too many times. And then that one was a huge thing. And she decided to cut it off. It was a no-brainer. The line that sticks in my head at some point in the season, she brings up, that wasn't the first time this has happened. But at least the other times there was a reason with like an inflection at the end because the other blowups were like you could argue they were provoked.

Like you go back to the literary party. There was at least a cause to the effect. Like the van, as everybody says, was an absolute just tornado. That's what we'll end on. We'll end on the van. That's a good spot. Okay. but I just think it's nuts and like I think I hope that Craig can work on himself and that

he comes out a different person. I'll say that. But I think the situation with Charlie really highlights his view of everything versus everyone else's view of everything because the way that Charlie's talking and I'm not saying that she didn't have future plans here and there like some cute little like oh yeah like pillow talky type shit. I don't know. I didn't see the text.

I didn't see their face times. But do you think that any of the. this because of the proximity to the page thing. Do you think that some of this was Craig felt something again? And it got really exciting. And he got a little over his skis too early. Without a doubt in my mind. Like there's no question at all that that's exactly what happens.

Like I believe him when he says that he actually had feelings for it. Like I think that played out pretty well. I think, you know, you can just look at just this season. Look at how he was with Sally in the beginning of the season versus with Charlie. It was vastly different. Like all of those things are right there. It's just the way that he handled it that we have problems with. But when it comes to Charlie, like, yeah, I mean, we were waiting for that.

We weren't expecting Craig to come into this season being a perfect person. We didn't expect him to do all the things that he did throughout the season. But we weren't expecting perfect. We were expecting a little downtrodden. We were expecting him to be sad. We were expecting him to be a little sensitive to certain things. We were expecting him to try to, I mean, honestly going into the season, I thought he was going to really align with Austin and Craig,

or with Austin and Chef. And he didn't do that. He actually couldn't be further apart from the two of them. So it was a very weird season for him. But when it comes to Charlie, like, yeah, I kind of expected this. Like, this is the first time that he got into a quasi-relationship. He started having feelings for somebody. And he got erratic. He got in his own head, which of course he's going to do. He's told us a million times. Like, I believe that too. He gets in his head about a lot of shit. That's way he has no game when he's talking to these girls. And he doesn't need it because of who he is. But yeah, that totally makes sense to me. That's, I think, a big proponent of this that wasn't really discussed at all,

not during the season, not on stage. I think they were in two different places in this whole thing as well. I think Charlie saw this as like, it's pretty clear from the fact that she was talking to other people. And I do believe that she told Craig to go back on Raya. I think Craig heard that and thought it was a joke. Genuine, I think he's like, ha, of course, about going back on Raya. I love you. but I think that she was looking at this is like, yeah, you know, I'm dating around.

I'm dating this guy. I'm talking to Justin. I'm talking to Craig. We'll see what happens. I kind of like Craig. We're going to see where it goes. And you get lines from Craig where he's like, that was perfect all season until then. No, you weren't.

You were terrible. You were awful this season. And Charlie still gave you a chance. And then you went to Mexico and everything blew up. But my takeaway from it is they were in two different positions from the jump, how they were looking at this whole. thing. I think that that Charlie is ever so slightly shady in regards to Sally, not to Craig, in regards to Sally and that whole thing. I think that as you said, I think two or three weeks

ago, what was this going to be anyway? This whole relationship's built on a lie. It's built on hiding things. It's built on this facade of like, oh, it's like this secret love blossoming. And we're fucking burning your best friend in the process. Like this was never going to be something amazing. And I think that when Craig, he exacerbates things by speaking in hyperbole about what they had, it's like, brother, you guys, did you kiss more than twice? Like, this wasn't that serious. I don't know. And that's, that's the funny thing when it comes to Craig is I, for all of this, for the, the Charlie stuff in particular, for, you know, like overplaying his hand when it comes to their relationship and looking at it way differently, I'm giving him a full-blown past.

Like, of course he's going to think that way. He was in like a four-year relationship where he thought he was going to get married. And if we're supposed to believe him, he bought a ring. He was going to get married to that girl. And then his whole world came. I said if we're supposed to believe him. I know. I just made a face.

Yeah. But like, and then his whole world came crashing down. If he gets into a relationship or starts dating somebody and he has real feelings, of course he's going to move too fast. This is Craig we're talking about. He built a whole house for page so that she would move down there without actually talking about moving to Charleston, without having a real conversation about it or having any sort of loose confirmation that she was going to do that. So of course he's going to jump in head over heels. And of course Charlie's going to feel it out because she wants to see if anything's there.

And if it aligned, they would still be dating. But it didn't align. And unfortunately for Craig, that's how dating works. Things happen. You guys don't see eye to eye on things. And I'm not even just talking about you screaming in people's faces. Other things, I'm sure, popped up along the way. And Charlie was keeping her options open.

She's not willing to admit it. But I, she was talking other people. Like I don't, and I don't fucking care. You're early on. You guys went on like three dates, four dates, maybe max. You guys dated for a couple of weeks. Like, yeah, she's probably still talking to other people or running into other people and she's still single, quote unquote. So it's not a big deal.

You guys never had that conversation. And if you did, we would actually see that because it would have happened during the season. But you were still so worried about the sally of it all that it never really mattered. It never really got to that point. So it was never going to be anything. But again, I would not blame. Craig, if he thought that it was going to turn into this beautiful thing where it's like, wow, the universe pushed me away from page and I thought that I was dead and now I've got

Charlie. Like, of course he's going to think that way. He's a romantic at the end of the day. Yeah, that's kind of where I see this thing going awry out of the gate and then obviously everything that happened thereafter. But, all right, that takes us to Vanita and Craig. Are we there now? Yeah.

All right. Let's jump into that. So I think a big thing here. And if you look across the board with some of, some of the situations that Vanita got involved in this season, I think are kind of a microcosm of her issues that she gets into as a whole. Yeah. Allow me to explain.

The Craig thing, the Craig situation, you didn't have to say that stuff on file files, right? No. Like you decided to comment on their relationship on multiple podcasts. we weren't aware that you were friends with Paige, which maybe you are. I have no idea. But you entered the conversation.

I'm not saying you can't do that. It's reality TV. It's Bravo. You're allowed to do this shit to drum up some drama. But when shit then hits the fan, now it's, you got to go back and forth. Like now it's a thing.

You made it a thing. Now it's the thing. So then Craig goes on. He responds. You respond. That's how this is supposed to go back and forth. You're supposed to volley this shit until there's either some kind of resolve

or you guys never speak again. But if you look across the board, her issues with Molly, why are you telling Sally that Molly got her vagina surgery paid? First of all, why are you telling her period? Second of all, why are you telling her that somebody else paid for it? That's weird and shady. You got yourself into this position. I don't know if you wanted Sally to like you and you were trying to give her some dirt.

I don't really know what your motive was, but it just doesn't make a lot of sense. And then, like, I'll give it to her. apologizes for the thing she does and it doesn't come with a butt and I do think she's really sorry to Bali like I don't think she's blowing smoke but you get yourself into a lot of these situations and then when push comes to shove and you have to stand up and talk or go after somebody or defend yourself i.e. Sally at Wittner's farm you avoid the conversation entirely. So I agreed with you like we talked this season that I actually like that she's trying to get more involved. I like that she's trying to mix it up trying to stir the pot trying to push story

lines. I like that. Get involved. Absolutely. But the second part of that, now that you're in it, now you have to stand 10 toes down and go back after that. You can't just cower away and walk away from the conversation. It doesn't really work that way. No, it definitely doesn't work that way. It doesn't work that way for a lot of things. But I, there might be a glimmer of hope in there because she did at least admit that she was trying to dig when she made that comment down to Mexico. So that's a good start. We're starting with the truth. Oh, that's another one. She gets involved in Austin and Craig at the dinner table. That's another example. Yeah. But I immediately, as soon as she does that, I'm like, good. You actually got involved and then told us

that you were doing it to be shady. That's what I want to hear. That's exactly what I want to hear. That's what you should be doing. Now, obviously with the Molly thing, it's a lot different because why the fuck are you talking about that in the first place? That's a different situation entirely. That's not like fun for the show. That's divulging secrets of your castmates to other people to be shady or to get them to like you. I don't know exactly what it is. But for Vanita, she's almost there. Like she really is almost there. And again, she's almost at the point where we can actually judge what she brings to the show. And that's really all I'm saying because up until now, we've had a lot of instances where Vinya's involved.

She's not involved. She's involved, whatever. But we can never really make a good opinion of who she is and what she can bring to the show because she never quite gets there. And right now where we are is she can't stand up for herself. She just doesn't know how to do the things that she's already, she already made her bed and she just won't lay in it. She's like, ah, no, I didn't do that. I'm not dealing with this today. I'm going to move on with my life.

No, you have to address it. You have to talk to the person about it. And with the Craig thing in particular, if we're looking at it in a nutshell, she shouldn't have made the fucking comments in the first place. You didn't know them. You didn't know them. You didn't have to make a comment about Craig on wherever she made the comment the first time.

You certainly didn't have to go on vial files and continue to talk about it. You certainly didn't have to go on another thing. And then her whole comment is, well, if Craig had such an issue with it, he could have reached out to me and been like, hey, can you stop talking about me? She says he let me continue to go on these podcasts and talk about. I actually admire the way that she was able to spin that because that was really funny, but it doesn't make any fucking sense.

That's some Craig level spin zone right there. Maybe they're a lot more alike than we think. But maybe they could be really good friends at the end of the day. That would be funny if we'd get back to next season. It's like actually Craig and Vanita have been hanging out a lot. I'm so fine with that. But then the other thing that comes into all of this. and this was just like a one-off question.

They talk about Vanita and Carl hanging out. And then she drags Carl. Because he stiff-armed her, I guess. Because they were dating and then he put the kibosh on it. Were they dating, though? Now I don't even know because there was no confirmation. Yeah, but you know what? We've been seeing a lot of that, especially with Summer House and those Southern shows.

We see them on dates. West went on a date with like the entire fucking Southern hospitality cast at one point. And then nothing came of it. So I don't really think about it. it too much, but it's just the way that she talks about people when she's addressed. It's just like, well, you don't have to be mean about your comments. You can just like, you can just say whatever. I don't care what the fuck you say, but you don't have to immediately drag somebody because

you got brought up in the same sentence with them. And that seems like what her go to is, which I'm fine with on reality TV. Like bring it on. I have no issue with it. No, I have no issue at all. And again, this is what we've wanted from Benita. So I'm not going to sit here now and be like, Vanita, what are you doing? I know.

I can actually see the workings of creating a more well-rounded reality TV person. So like, go for it. Like, keep doing what you're doing. Just figure out that final piece. Like, you have to get, if you're going to put yourself in the conflict because people are going to look at you and say, what the fuck did you just say? Stand 10 toes down. Even if you're awesomely wrong, stand 10 toes down.

That's what this show is. This show is being incredibly wrong and then trying to gaslight the other person into thinking that you're actually right. That's what everybody does. So just keep doing that and you'll be one of the one of the crew. I know. And she is close. So, you know, we want to progress from Vanita this season.

We got some. So you got to give her some credit there. Yeah. It's just, yeah, you look at the situation she's involved in. Like that doesn't justify, you know, what Craig said to at the dinner table by any means when they're down in Mexico. And it doesn't justify some of the responses that she got. No, but like a lot of things don't get justified on reality TV. And honestly, that's just part for the course.

If you want to play in the big leagues, if you want to get involved in these situations, you're going to have to expect that one of your co-stars is going to just bat you down. Just immediately give you some shit and go a little too far. And then you have to be able to handle that. And if you can't handle it, then you shouldn't have done it in the first place. So I think she can handle it. She just has to figure out how to respond. Yeah.

And I think she's getting there. I think this reunion was like towards the end of her package. I think you saw, you know, we had some resolve. Like her and Craig were able to at least amicably like move on a little bit. her and Sally, her and Molly. They seem like they're all working towards something here. I think the biggest thing we got from this because the dudes were so fucking bad at this reunion was that the ladies are like, oh, we need to be friends because this is men in Charleston.

And like this is a fucking nightmare. So like, let's make sure that we're all still friends. Now that brings me to Madison. And then we'll finish with the ban ever so quickly because we talked about most of it. but I was kind of floored at some of her comments in episode two. Well, maybe we're seeing that. Craig for who he is. No, what?

No, absolutely not. You need to check him. He's being a fucking dick. Yeah. Do you have a list of the Madison comments? Like, did you write them down? I wrote, uh, yeah. So there was that one.

There was another one. Because I was trying to rationalize it and saying like, Madison is sort of the Lindsay Hubbard role. So maybe she's just trying to play devil's advocate and getting involved and do this and that and whatever. She's just trying to stir it. Yeah, I don't think that she believes any of the shit that she said, but at the same time, it didn't help any situation.

Like, it didn't further anything. It was almost like, it kind of struck me as like, okay, Craig's going to be out here by himself and I don't want him to feel like he's by himself. So I'm going to have his back in certain situations when I feel like it's getting a little, getting to be a little. I got another one. So that's kind of what I thought, like, because I started at Lindsay Hubbard and then I moved my way down to it's coming off as.

as you're really supporting Craig. And you shouldn't do that. You should be somewhere in the middle. Like that's fine. Make a comment here. Yeah. Yeah. And that's fine.

That's exactly her role. But yeah, if you have the other comments, go for it. But, well, before I get to that comment, like,

if Craig yelled at you the way that he yelled at Sally, you would fucking kill him. Like he would not, you would give him the best verbal bashing that we've probably ever seen. scene on Bravo. It would be like scorched earth, never fucking talk to me again, who the fuck do you think you are? You would not even give him the time of day after that. That's who you are. And that's okay. That's a good thing. You're fucking strong as shit. We love that about you.

But you can't sit there and say, we got to accept them for who he is. That's disrespectful to Sally who got reamed out in a van in Mexico for 45 minutes. So I don't believe, I hope she doesn't actually believe that. The other one was, in the van as well where it's like, Craig, if a real friend wouldn't have let you freak out, a real friend would have tried to calm you down. What do you mean? It was unhinged. And you've seen that Craig before.

Yeah. You know that Craig. And this apparently, according to the people in the van, was like Craig's worst moment ever. And he's had some pretty fucked up blowups. So no, don't play that card now where it's like, I would have been there for you. You wouldn't have. Yeah. was wild and then even going into Austin's

standpoint during it. He's like, I just was doing my best to not get involved. I didn't. I'm like, what? Which is also awful. Like you and Sally are a little bit of a thing. At least in Mexico you guys are a thing. It doesn't even matter if you guys are a little bit of a thing. You like Sally. You view her as a friend. If you're friends

say something. You view Craig as a friend of me and you understand maybe better than everybody else on the cast how awful he can be in those moments when he lashes out like that. You should be defending the victim. here you should be defending the undefendable to try to help her out while she's going through this and he's like nah i just i did my best to not get involved and then you know rodrigo was like dude

you've got to help me out and then i reluctantly was like yeah yeah i guess i'll i'll help out here and it's like what do you mean like how did we get here how did we do any of this and craig spin on the whole van thing was like it was in the card again it was it was it wasn't even yeah i guess it was a victim card, but it was just incoherent. Like nothing he said actually made any sense in the moment. It was all total and utter made up bullshit. That's all it was because we watched it. They played the clip 50 fucking times through the midseason trailer, the trailer in the

beginning of the season, the reunion episode, the reunion. Like we've seen it so many times. We have a very good grasp about what happened in that car. Sally didn't do anything. She did absolutely nothing. She actually made a joke. and it wasn't even at your expense. It wasn't even a joke.

It was just pointing out, which we've all been to Mexico. Your hair gets a little fucking wacky if it's a little longer. My hair is in my fucking face. Yeah, it's wild. It gets greasy. It's gross. It's disgusting. You can make a joke about that.

You could turn around and be like, well, at least I don't have your hair. And then if Sally lashes out of that, that's not your fault. You're just returning fire a little bit is like a little friendly spat. Instead, you blew the fuck up. And then when you're explaining it at the reunion, I'm like, I don't even know what you're saying. I truly don't know what you're talking about. I was proud of Sally though, because, you know, the way he's trying to spin it is as though this was an isolated incident one, which is crazy because you had blowups throughout the season.

This just was the worst one and you were the most inebriated for this one, which is glad, like, I hope that he takes the anger thing seriously. Like, I hope that got through where it's like, maybe you do have a drinking problem, but you definitely have an anger problem. Like go to the fact that he's like, never. ever talked to his therapist about his anger, he's never typed that into the chat GPT bubble. I think if you type in anger on chat GPT,

it says that I'm an AI, I don't understand emotions. I don't understand this. Teach me. No, God, no. Teach me, pillow, daddy. They're already getting to the point where they're reaching the singularity

in which they'll be able to think and fend for themselves. So, yeah, that's fun. Yeah, at this point, who cares? but I'm proud of Sally in this moment because Craig is trying to play the card of like, this isn't who I am. Like I haven't done this in two years. Yes, you have. You just haven't been this drunk doing it in two years.

But Sally says, don't disregard me like that. You still need to take accountability. Like what he's trying to do is say, yeah, I understand the gravity of it. It was out of my control. Like it just, I lost my shit. You know, that's not who I am trying to be better guys. he's trying to play the card of like, I'm doing the work.

I know I was wrong, but it was just, it was a spur of the moment thing and like, my bad. No, no, no, no, no. Take accountability. That was awful. That was awful.

And it will live forever on TV. Even if Madison's sitting there saying, I would have tried to call me down because I'm your real friend, which is fucking banana. He keeps going back to I haven't drank that much in years. I was emotionally spent. And then he fucking flips it on Charlie. And I felt rejected by,

her she wasn't out then she was still in well talk to her at the bar before you left with they were sitting there being cutesy with casillas before he threw it on charlie he threw it on bravo essentially yeah first it was bravo i didn't have anything and i wasn't drinking any water i was just exhausted and i was just pounding tequila it's no dude you went to the bar and we have clips of you eating a ton of food throughout the day drinking a ton of water throughout the day commenting on the water and the food. And then you got to the bar and bought an entire bottle of tequila and got behind the bar and had Austin make sure that everybody was fed shots.

That's what happened. So let's not do the revisionist history. Let's go back. We all watched it. You didn't. We know what happened. Okay, fine. It was really Charlie's fault because I knew she was one in one out.

Like, dude, what? You didn't. You truly did not know that. And we can judge that based on how you were when we got back to Charleston afterwards. Now, yes. I don't know what happened. Nothing happened in Mexico. ago that would have caused her to not talk to me like dude you coward from her the whole next day

you didn't say a word to her you got home to charleston you were still weirdly suspecting that she was going to facetime you and call you again every night and she didn't do that so you knew something was up so don't like look at us and be like yeah i don't know i just i just have no idea what's going on like yeah you talked to you had a whole conversation with cori about it in the car on the ride over you knew something was up and you downright knew it was because of what you you you downright knew it was because of what you did in Mexico, that she did that. But playing dumb doesn't work for all of the other things that you've done throughout the season, throughout your tenure on this show.

You don't now get to be like, I don't know what happens. Nothing happens. No, dude. Like, just take accountability in that moment and be like, yeah, it wasn't my prettiest moment. We've talked about it 75 times over this reunion. I get it. I understand how it might be something that Charlie's going to just walk away from. I just wanted a conversation.

Like, if you said that and you were like, I just thought that I was owed a conversation, and I would have loved to have sit down with her and talked about this whole thing before we even got back to Charleston or before, you know, we got back to filming, whatever it may have been. I would understand that. But to act like nothing happened and you did nothing wrong is that shit crazy. I think there was still ever so slightly opening in the door. And the door is still a jar. Yeah. Because she had that confessional where she was like, I'm expecting, because she says on stage, I was expecting to have like have a one on one with you and for you to point.

apologize to the group. In a confessional after Mexico, she said just as much, like, I'm assuming we're going to have like a one-on-one about this. You didn't reach out to her. You expected her to reach out to you after you did all of those shenanigans. She didn't. And then you're going to try to say that you knew she was one in one out and you felt rejected and therefore you took it out on Sally, who you're trying to pin the whole thing falling apart on, even though that wasn't the that that was not the issue that was a speed bump in your relationship with charlie had you handled it like an adult but you didn't neither did she charlie and it blew up on you guys it was going to blow up somehow just in this instance

you literally blew it up in a van in mexico so oof yeah a lot it's a lot to cover but you know what I'm much happier doing it this way instead of the other way around. And just loop it all into one big old bro down. Yeah, I was going to call it a shit show, but yeah. Shit, bro. I don't like that. No, I just went to Instagram, and the first thing that popped up is Kyle Cook posted a picture with. Oh, God.

Hold on, I have to read this real quick. Oh, no. Kyle posted a photo of him and Amanda on Instagram. There's no excuse for how I acted, summer the way I spoke to and about Amanda was unacceptable and it's brutal to watch back but not nearly as painful as what she's had to go through Amanda and I have already spoken about all of this but I felt the need to acknowledge this publicly I'm truly sorry and regret the way I handled myself I know nothing can erase the hurt I've caused she never deserved that and I

need to be better two things again I don't think Kyle's a bad person so I actually believe that No, no, yeah, no, I do. It's just the timing is always funny. That's what I'm saying. Is you seeing all of the backlash online and going, oh, fuck, lover boy just dipped 10 points. Yeah. Negative 10 points for Gryffindor. All right, let's see what the fans say about this one.

I feel weird calling them fans. Let's call them listeners. Listeners, audience. Yeah, let's see what the audience has to say. Our friends, our bros. Sirah D. Why is Madison so on Craig's side? I don't know.

Haley, oh, why is Madison enabling Craig? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. Melanie Leahjay, make Craig's manipulation make sense.

How does this work on anyone? I don't know. The answer to all of these questions is going to be. I don't fucking know. Yeah, probably. Oh, boy. Yeah, there's another question about why is Madison.

Oh, go ahead. No, I was just saying there's another question about why is Madison on Craig's team. I don't know. No idea. Dude, Charlie 44, the reunion confirmed that Craig does not have a professional human therapist. I agree. It's chat GPT is his actual therapist. Yeah.

God, every question is about Madison and Craig. From Bola Damo, Craig and Austin need to just kiss already, damn it. Is Craig jealous of the heated rivalry, quote unquote, date? Probably. They should kiss, honestly. Just get it out of the way. I think they would settle a lot of issues if they just made out on camera. Yeah. And we've talked about this at reunions before.

It was probably like five or six years ago at this point. But they, Craig has not seen Sheper Austin's dick. I think he just needs to see their dicks. Oh, yeah. I think that'll, that'll save everything. Yeah,

they need a smooch and a little p.p. reveal, little hog reveal and everything would be fine. From Jamie Gibbs, how are Craig and Paige, quote unquote, together every day if they literally lived in different states? Oh, yeah.

I said the same thing when he said it. I was like, what you guys saw each other every month yeah yeah uh that's pretty funny uh from madeline gotier just me or vanita had a terrible reunion poorly played bad look um no i don't think she had a terrible reunion honestly i think that she saved herself a lot by just purely admitting like yeah i was fucking digging okay cool great and yeah i'm sorry and yes i'm sorry yes i'm sorry even if it's even if it's not genuine which i think it is but even if it's not we've seen similar

strategies and reunions in the past. It's not like a crazy. Yeah. And like I can look at maybe not the Craig and Vanita stuff. Like if you just look at how she was talking, her and Molly seemed to be fine. The situation between her and Sally is just, it's bizarre.

So I don't really know what to make of that, but it doesn't seem like Vanita's being a good friend to everybody. But that doesn't really bother me to be honest because it's reality TV. I don't give a shit. Yeah, I don't have a question for this, but it did bring it up in my noggin. After seeing Sally the quote again from Watch What Happens Live, is she the reason that everybody expected Wittner to have this dark side? Because she said, you don't know Wittner yet. Yes.

Yes. That's what stemmed from it. I don't think she realizes the turmoil online. She has no idea. She has no idea. this like closet evil man that has this dark dark side to him we were talking about it all season when's whitner going to blow up when's whitner going to blow up sally what the fuck yeah i i really don't think that she realizes that at all um from liz scarbs do you think sewing down south

tracks pillow cells based on craig's behavior during airing what a mess they should they should i mean i look at lover boy keep an eye on that um yeah from kelsey rhinal Sally was completely cooked by Austin and I don't even think that she realized that she is like she's got fucking love goggles on. Austin can say or do whatever the hell he wants and she's still going to pay him compliments. I know. He treated her like absolute shit on that stage and she was still giggling with him. I got one to end on. So if you have another one,

you want to squeeze in there. A lot of why was Madison touting? Yeah, which I'm glad that, you know, I genuinely think, genuinely. I think she's just.

trying to stir shit up. Yeah. I don't think that she believes anything that she was saying. I hope not. Yeah, pretty Ricky Wise. Madison is such an apologist for these men. We don't know. Let's see.

Oh, I want to do this one because this is fascinating and it gets into the psyche a little bit. B-Man Graham 0727. Do you think Craig didn't watch the reunion because he knew how bad he came off? No. I don't think that he sees himself. the way that we do. I think if he watches those things back, if he watches this reunion back,

he's going to see a pile on. If he watches the season back, he's going to see himself getting poked and prod at all season and them causing all of this. I don't think genuinely that his brain is wired the right way to understand where he fucks up. I think that he rationalizes everything away, which is the trait of a hand up addict,

not saying he is, but that is a trait. I thought you're going to say narcissist actually. Both. Like it is. Like you're able to spin every fucked up thing you do into, oh, it's probably their fault. It wasn't my fault. That's like one of our

main tropes. Good point. And last one here from Mary Had a Little. Do you think that Craig will be back next season? Yeah. Definitely. Without a doubt in my mind. I do think it's, the better question

is probably, not to knock you, but I think the better question is, will next season, be his last season. That's a possibility. I don't know. It depends on how next season goes, but I could see a pretty decent sized opportunity

for him to just move on after next season, but he's definitely coming back next season. I agree. I think if this next season, he's going to convince himself to come back, and he's going to get him to come back. He's probably going to want to come back to a certain capacity. If it goes similar to this season,

meaning if he fucks it up for himself again, I think he's, out. I think we got a one season buffer one way or the other. Yep. I'm with you. But yeah. I mean, shit, all in all, solid season. Yeah, it was a solid, solid year. We saw some growth in a lot of people. I'm sorry. Who? What? Shep. Oh, no, no, no. God, not like maturity. Like growth as a reality TV star. Let's, let's clarify here. Growth at their triggered me with the G word. Yeah,

no, growth at their job, not personal growth. What are you nuts? We actually saw the main men on this show regress substantially from where we thought they were other than Shep. And that's because Shep didn't do anything. Austin and Craig took about a four-year step backwards in most ways of their life.

So yeah, no, not that. But yeah, solid, solid season. I'm excited for the off season. I think we're going to see some shit. Yeah, me too.

But that's all I got. You got anything else? Nope. Well, that's our show. Broves are out of here. Getting ready for a game means being ready for anything. Like packing a spare stick. I like to be prepared.

That's why I remember, 988, Canada's suicide crisis helpline. It's good to know, just in case. Anyone can call or text for free confidential support from a train responder anytime. 988 suicide crisis helpline is funded by the government in Canada. Oh, the Regency Era. You might know it as the time when Bridgeton takes place, or the time when Jane Austen wrote her books. But the Regency Era was also an explosive time of social change, sex scandals,

and maybe the worst king in British history. And on the Vulgar History podcast, we're going to be looking at the balls, the gowns, and all the scandal of the Regency Era. Vulgar History is a women's history podcast, and our Regency Era series will be focusing on the most rebellious women of this time. That includes Jane Austen herself,

who is maybe more radical than you might have thought. We'll also be talking about queer icons like Anne Lister, scientists like Mary Anning and Ada Lovelace, as well as other scandalous actresses, royal mistresseseses, rebellious princesses, and other lesser-known figures who made history happen in England in the Regency era. Listen to Vulgar History wherever you get podcasts.