Bros & Shows - Southern Charm Finale: A Mediocre Finale to a Below Average Season (southern charm full recap)

Episode Date: March 24, 2025

What's up Bros? Southern Charm has come to an end and this season was... Meh. We've highlighted the flaws all season, a lot of it was production based, but hopefully they read the audience's notes and make some adjustments next season. In the finale, Venita and JT sit down to discuss the barber comments. Shep asks Molly to accompany him to the Summer Soiree. Austen and Craig appear to be in a better place, although according to recent interviews it doesn't last too long. Leva and Venita have a bone to pick with Ryan. We're confused. In our opinion it seems like the barber is the most at fault here for misrepresenting what JT had originally said. We get if you're mad at Ryan for perpetuating rumors, but it seemed to us that he was looking out for his friend in Venita. The episode ends with the same teaser trailer that we've seen all season about Paige and Craig's break up. Literally no different. The perfect underwhelming end to this underwhelming season. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When you're with Amex Platinum, you get access to exclusive dining experiences and an annual travel credit. So the best tapas in town might be in a new town altogether. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Terms and conditions apply. Learn more at Amex.ca. The twisted tale of Amanda Knox is an eight-episode episode Hulu original limited series that blends gripping pacing with emotional complexity, offering a dramatized look as it revisits the wrongful conviction of Amanda Knox for the tragic murder of Meredith Kircher and the relentless media storm that followed. The twisted tale of Amanda Knox is now streaming only on Disney Plus. waited an entire season a whole season to talk about it we knew it was coming they teased it

over and over again with the same goddamn teaser trailer and then lo and behold the only thing that we get is the same exact goddamn trailer that we got for the entirety of the fucking season i don't know why i don't know why we expect anything else anytime that they pick up cameras for some dramatic breakup or some dramatic dramatic news that pops off It is about 35 seconds, 40 seconds total of them basically just telling us what happened and it's news that we've known for six months. That is how it always goes for all of these shows. It is probably so expensive to send your production crew back to go do all of this just for one scene. Like, give me another scene with the girls.

Let's hear what the girls have to say. Get them all together. Let's all chat about it. Give me at least like 10 minutes at the end of this episode to talk about it instead of what we got. we got like a minute 30 as the credits are rolling ridiculous ridiculous i'm your co-host and shows i got to have me my pros and shows bros and shows pros and shows i got to have me my bros and shows good afternoon everybody welcome back to another episode of bros and shows i'm your co-host

steel russell joined as always by the one and only finale migali sure sure Sure. Why not? It works. Why not? It's Monday, March 24th, and my bracket is busted. Oh, boy. I haven't looked at mine. I only did one. I had 290 points yesterday. I don't know if that's good or not, but I've looked at it twice. And after the first day, I was already dead. I don't know why I do it. I watch enough of it. I know what's going on. It never works. Somebody out there is just picking cool mascots and just winning all of these things. That's you. Guilty. Guilty. I was first place in my family bracket. So maybe there's something to it. Yeah, I've got Kentucky versus Auburn in the final. Okay. I can't even like say, like, that makes no sense to me, but like who.

They're both still wrong. I know. They're still kicking. You don't know. Maybe I'm an idiot savon when it comes to him up madness. Duke is playing right now and I have them in the championship game. They could lose by the time that we're done recording this. So, yeah, I would be surprised.

March Madness, baby. But we're not here to talk. about brackets we're also not here to talk about crag and page they didn't talk about that at all this whole episode but we are here to discuss the southern charm finale of a very strange season uh i would give this like a i don't even like a five out of ten probably yeah yeah the season as a whole did not a lot for me really like at all the things that we were looking forward to the things that we weren't looking forward to. It all just kind of came together in a meh type of season.

Exactly. Just meh. Like there was some good moments. Nobody's going to be rewatching this. I'll put it that way. Correct. What we got out of it was Molly. She's great.

Sally, I think she's good for the show. Like that's pretty much all we can take away is, all right, we have two newcomers that did a good job. Other than that, like what did we really get? A lot of complaints about production,

not showing what the girls are up to and only focusing on the dudes because that's what this show does and it bothers me every year. I never get over it. I always get excited when Southern Charms starts. Same with Summerhouse because they're the two shows that I like the most.

Once they start up, I remember why I got aggravated with them towards the end of each season. And it all just starts over again and starts over again. I don't know what I'm doing. It's like I'm severing my mind or something and just forgetting.

No, you know, it is. My iny was watching it. It's the Philly sportsman in you. And I know we just want the Super Bowl, so it's a little different right now. But usually we get our hopes up. Well, we are still world champs. All right. I'm looking forward to next season.

I'm looking forward to baseball season now. But that's what we do here. You get your hopes up. And then nine times out of 10, we get really far. And we shit the bed in a very crucial playoff game. So that's what it is. You expect something different. And yet you get the same result.

We're so used to that that now we do that with Bravo. shows that's good it is that are really love that you painted it that way because that makes a lot of sense to me and also irks me to my core so yeah does it make you feel better and worse appreciate you yeah you're welcome that's what i'm here for man that's what i'm here for to to pick you up when you're feeling down or to knock you down when i'm feeling up yep oh you're feeling good today well fuck you no but why don't we jump into this episode uh again not that much happened it was For a finale, it was really overwhelming. It's very tame. Like, we got to

the party and I had to pause and be like, there's 10 minutes left. Like, what do we talk about? It's pretty crazy. Really. Nothing at all. Like, a J.T. Vanita-centric storyline at the end of the year is not something I ever had on my bingo card. And there were some pretty good

moments that like we're going to talk about because it's going to be the bulk of the episode. But otherwise, yeah, whatever. Yeah, is a very good way to describe both the season and the finale. And we start out where we left off from last week. Literally,

we pick right up in that scene with Vanita and J.T. And the whole some girl comment. And now that the whole thing is shaken out, we heard from the barber. Vanita's big takeaway is that she was referred to as quote unquote, some girl because she feels that she means more to JT than that. So she feels belittled in this whole thing. So she goes over to the event space and talks to,

to JT about this whole debacle. And the first thing she does is compliment his haircut. I'm like, okay, it's a weird way to set the tone for this scene, but whatever, I'll let that one slide. Very strange. Right? Like, that's a weird way to intro.

There's a lot going on. And yet your infatuation with this man still shines through. Yeah, not only that, but also like the comment about his hair, knowing what we're about to talk about is even weird. Where the hair came from. Yeah. And I'm still of the mind of like, the barber's gossiping.

and he's kind of confused about like how this why are we like complimenting the haircut I do like at least she said we're not going back there which I was like oh we like yeah we're talking the general we now did you just do that we I don't like that at all what he general week the whole scene kind of confused me the whole episode honestly kind of confused me because well they're hashing it out because she's like not going back to that barbershop and JT's like whoa whoa whoa the barber's cool Fuck Ryan. I don't get that.

I don't understand. And on Twitter, people are saying fuck Ryan too. I'm like, well, hold on. This to me, I thought it was like a game of telephone that the barber fucked up. Yeah, the barber definitely fucked it up. And you can tell right away when he's on the phone with JT last week, he says, look, I may have said that. But like, if I did, I'm sorry. I thought that was an admission of guilt.

Like, he probably paraphrased what JT was talking about now. And people are going to point this out. all the time. Like, you have weird conversations with your barber. They're going to talk about weird shit. It's like, all right, fine. The barber doesn't need to go then tell Ryan because he knows the Ryan's on the show. Like, hey, I had JT here earlier and this is what he was talking about. Then paraphrase and then say some black girl on the show. Like, all of that is wrong on the barber.

I still don't see JT actually saying that, especially with somebody like Benita. I don't either. You can say what you want. Like, yeah, obviously, and we're going to get into it in the reunion. He led her on. There's a lot of weird shit going on, a lot of shady stuff going on relationship-wise. Vanita was Benita. Benita was blinded by all of like the allure of JT for some reason, which I'll still never understand.

But at the end of the day, it's the barber's fault that all of this is fired. This isn't Ryan's fault. Ryan did a good job of explaining what he was talking about too. I'm like, all right, Ryan, I got you. It took you a long time to get there because you were shaking throughout that entire conversation. Yeah, you got there. Yeah, he's got to get better. He's got to get better in talking on camera.

He's going to be on Bravo. Yeah. But my whole thing watching this scene as they both set their sights on. Ryan after we heard like you said the bartender the bartender god damn it the barber more or less cop to it where it's like maybe it was lost in translation and the way that I said it was incorrect he said that on the phone so if you're going to be mad at Ryan you could get mad at him for gossiping or whatever but that doesn't make sense to me either because JT's whole platform is standing for justice standing up for your friends calling people out you called Sally the other woman and you still think

that you're right and you still think that you're in the right for doing that. So in this case, Ryan heard something from a barber. He pulls a JT and he goes directly to the friend and says, hey, I heard some shit that was being talked. So all he did was take a play from JT's playbook, relay some information that he had heard from a barber that got the situation wrong, admittedly so. And then when it all shakes out, JT says, Barber's cool, fuck Ryan. Make that make that make sense to because that doesn't make sense to me i i can't make it make sense unless it's just simply jt knowing that ryan doesn't like him and he feels like he has it out for him and like that could be the case i don't think that ryan likes jt and i think once he got this information he went to vina again his

explanation later is pretty good pretty clear like hey we're friends i felt like it was necessary for me to tell you this based on what else is going on it could also very well just be a can somebody please go to Vanita, grab her on the shoulders, and shake the living hell out of her until she snaps out of it. Because I don't know what's going on. The infatuation with JT drives me insane. I would want to do that if I was her friend. So it could be that. But to blame Ryan after all of this, yes, he's the source. Did you expect him to come to you directly, man to man? When you're going around telling all the girls all these different things, because you stand up for women's rights and whatever the hell else is going on or whatever else you say, you're doing the same thing.

so like what did you expect back this person doesn't like you he likes vanita he's friends with finina he went straight to her and said look this is what's going on i heard this from a barber and now you called out the barber you figured out the crime you solved the crime it's the barber's fault it was the barber in the barbers shop with some uh with scissors oh shears nice that was better that was more more uh industry term but industry and clue yeah the whole thing fucking confused me i didn't understand like i could i can get having some anger towards Ryan for perpetuating this sure gossiping yeah yeah okay but to place all of it on him when we heard the barber say maybe i said it wrong that is that's such an important piece of information that apparently is glossed over and then we get to watch more inappropriate behavior because at this juncture j t's got a girlfriend and yet the flirtation is still there like the hug thing it's like oh are we allowed to do that yuck yuck it's like no no not if you're confused the pretext there like makes it more than just a hug if you're just friends be like dab it up hug whatever yeah i are you and i know this is going to sound like we're

jumping all over the place but i have to get this out of my brain now are you just as confused at the like update at the end of this episode where i was so confused well then i remember weeks later dating yeah so i remembered what i saw and now that we know productions fucking weird with this show it's harder to find it but i remember when all of this stuff came out like way back when the vanita and j t stuff had initially been dropped it said that they had dated then he ghosted her and then he reappeared with a girlfriend but that was the original like that's what happened i i don't know i think they put way more emphasis on them dating now so i was even more confused but he we had already seen him say, like, I basically have a girlfriend, and it's the same girl. So it just

keeps pointing to JT being shady. And yeah, I mean, he probably stopped talking to the girlfriend for like a week or two, dated Benita for a couple of weeks, and then ghosted her when he got back with his girlfriend. That's probably what happened, which does not make you a good guy. Doesn't make you a good friend, doesn't make you a good boyfriend, doesn't make you a good person in general. So you can just take that to the grave with you. I was just really confused by all of this, as I have been pretty much the whole season with Jane Zanina. It's just such a strange situation that's going on. Like, I don't know how to make heads or tails of it.

But yeah, it's just, I mean, we said it a thousand times. It's confusing. But we move on from there and you get Shep with Whitney. And obviously they recap Sienna real quick. Just like, oh, I haven't seen you that emotional about anything before. I'm so happy they kept this short. Yeah, same. We did not even delve any deeper.

We watched it. We were uncomfortable. Let's move on, please. I can't do it anymore. Yeah. Save us. from the misery but she mailed me the shark necklace back but then they get into some molly discussions and obviously we've seen this whatever this is kind of blossoming throughout the season

i'm not really sure what to call it with blossoming is a word yeah blossoming sure because i don't really know what else is going on with this whole thing it's watching him go through this and then loop back around that quickly just goes to show you exactly who chef is because it's all talking about it. And he's like, you know, it's really sweet, but, you know, I can't imagine hooking up with anybody right now, like immediately after that. And, you know, I don't want to fuck with her head. And Whitney's like, yeah, but. And he's like, yeah, you're right. You're right. Do you think she'd be down? Would she be cool? Like, he, it's, that's all it takes for a guy like Shep, to be completely heartbroken over Sienna and all the things that transpired. And then you

go to Cuba afterwards to clear your head and you have a talk with your dad. And you have a talk with your other dad and Whitney and you're sitting down and just chatting it all the way through and you're like, wait, yeah, you know what? It's been long enough. Yeah. I'm good. And in reality, just, you know, if we're looking at this as an overview, you weren't really dating Sienna. You guys talked here and there. You saw each other every once in a while. It shouldn't be that hard to get over it and go talk to Mali and then spark up some romance there. But what we watched last week at the Bahamas, you are in no shape to discuss romance with anybody. You need. You need, to go back to South Africa,

go to Australia. I don't care where you have to go. Go back to Cuba. Go figure your shit out. Don't put this on her because it's going to end terribly. Yeah, she doesn't need this. She is a nice lady. Don't fuck her up because you're on the rebound. And that's like all I get from this because like the fact

that he did a 180 that fast was like, yeah, you know what? I will call her. And this is, there's two weird romances going on in this that I can't really figure out. Molly and Shep obviously, Vanita and JT. When Molly is reading, and we get that little clip here, when she's reading the text message, the absolutely insane text message that Shep sent to Sienna, referencing her freckled lips.

Molly's like, oh, that's kind of cute. I love that. She does have freckled lips. Shit, dude. It's, what's going on? There's something in the water down there in Charleston. No, she's just being nice to him. There's no way she read that.

It was like, wow, you're a stalker. This is what I got from that. But Molly says, yes. She says yes to the invite. We know that she's into them. She just feels pressured by the group now. So it's this whole thing. But they're going together, which, you know what?

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Visit td.com slash small business advice to find out more or to match with a TD small business banking account manager. Goodbye summer movies, hello fall. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the Ultimate Movie Podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Shalamey playing Powering. our ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lanthamos' Bougonia.

Dwayne Johnson, he's coming for that Oscar. In The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuis's return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about two. Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat 2, and Edgar writes, The Running Man, starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. We get to Page and Craig, and Craig's driving her to the airport, a trip is over, and they're just kind of chit-chatting back and forth a little bit.

And he's like, oh, man, you know, I wish you could stay an extra day. And I saw this in like a trailer. Yeah. This is tough. This is really tough. I wish you could stay an extra day. But I guess you did come a day early. So that was our bonus day.

That's so true. That's all. Now, look, some of this is, some of it is going to be like hyper fixated on certain things that they say. When I look at that and I don't have context of who's talking, I could easily chalk this up to being, yeah, just a weird, awkward conversation in front of cameras. You guys don't know what to talk about. So you're just kind of throwing words out there. I get it. I fully understand how this works.

I've seen it before. There's, you know, there could be chemistry in your relationship, but maybe it's not going to work out. Then you find out it's Craig and Page talking about this. you're like, ugh, oh, what do you guys do? What do you guys even talk about anymore? Is it just constant complaining and like not seeing each other? That's all we've seen is Craig wants her to give him validation that they're okay. Page sidesteps it and gives him just an inch because she doesn't want to say too much

because she's made it very clear where she stands. It's almost like he thinks that if he keeps pushing, eventually she'd be like, you know what, you're right. I'll move to Charleston. like no big deal i love you so much you're you're the light of my life you're the apple of my eye what was i thinking wanting a career of my own how silly of me craig let's go to your backyard that's what he wants and that's why he keeps bringing it up over and over and over again and you know what especially with somebody like page who's made it very clear my life's very

different than it was when we started dating i'm a different person than when we started dating i want different things i need some space here for me to figure things out while we're still Like, it doesn't mean that I need to break up with you, but I need it some time. And he's still overbearing on it. Yeah, but like any normal conversation, the way that this goes, you're breaking out a schedule that like it's, you guys have been together for two and a half, three years at this point. Why is it so awkward for you guys to talk about planning a schedule?

You kept asking her, he must have asked her six times in this conversation alone. When's the next time I'm going to see you? When's the next time I'm going to see you? I'm sorry, dude, but like figure it out. make some time just say hey you're going to be on tour here here and here what if i came to this city for the night and just like hung out with you got to see the show got to root you on and then i fly back that seems pretty easy i'm sorry but like yeah i know you're running businesses and you're on the show the show's going to stop filming like right after this you probably have a lot more free time on your

hands than you usually do you have a lot of money you're doing well for yourself why not just offer that like stop putting the ball in her court and being like when are you coming back to charleston are you going to leave me alone same thing we talked about with joe bradley and mattie but obviously you know 15 years into the future at this why are we still doing this instead of you just coming up with solutions in saying hey yeah i know you're going to be crazy like you're going to have so much fun in italy when you get back and you go on tour let's set up a couple of dates and i can fly out to the different shows i'm sure you know if you guys want me up there the fans might like it whatever i don't care but i'll come and root you guys on and then we can hang out we can grab some nice dinner

we can stay over together in a hotel. I'll pay for the hotel. We'll do a nice little romantic getaway and then I'll fly back. And then you can continue with your tour. It'll be a nice breakup. That's what it makes sense, like, in a relationship to me. And then hearing Craig, like, beg for her to come back was just tough. Well, that's what it is.

He wants, he's doing it intentionally because he wants her to say, I want to see you on these dates. I want, he wants her to want him. So that's why he's not saying, hey, what about this date? You to want me. That's Craig. Does he need her? Does he need her to need him? And she doesn't.

And she's made it clear. And like, that's the thing. You can have, and we've talked about this before. They're just at different places. And that's fine. That's why they broke up.

But you're seeing where it got to be too much. Yeah. Because eventually she's like, all right, dude, I fucking told you already. Like I'm going to, I'm going to L.A.

for three days and I'm going to Italy. And then I go on tour. And he's like, oh, we don't have to hear the chicken anymore. That's true. Chicken's wearing thin. Chicken was wearing thin earlier this year.

I'll start calling you my chicken. That's fine because I know it's a term of endearment between us. It's not just, you know, the way you talk to each other at this point. Come on, chicken. There is no love between them anymore at this point. This is just, this is a business transaction. This is because you have to see each other because you have to do this and have to do that. They're both with, you know, Craig not really knowing it.

Page definitely knowing it. Both of them have one foot out the door. I agree. I don't think he does. I think he's clinging. she's got to put out the door and he's got no he's the little kid wrapped around her other leg as she's trying to get out the door he's like no come on back here i'm not done yet but but this that it makes it even more confusing because at the end of the episode he says

i was offering to come to manhattan but in this that didn't seem like it and like page is right you would be blaming her for the rest of your life if you move to manhattan and raised kids up there you're still in this scene even though we know based on the timeline that craig gave us that he, you know, picked out a ring before the summer, before last summer. So we knew that that already happens. They've already had discussions about him moving to Manhattan. And yet in this scene, you can see what he truly still wants. It's still that white picket fence down in Charleston, raising kids down there.

Which, you know what? If that's what you want, that's what you want. But not with Paige. Not going to work. Yeah, she's not into it. She's not down. And like the nail in the coffin for me is when they're leaving. He's still trying to pull more from her.

He's like, God, it never really, it doesn't feel like this usually. Like it's usually not this. And she's like, love you, and she leaves. Like it's, it's just so clear and it's sad, but it is what it is. This is the last time you're going to see me. It's like, ugh. Yeah, eish, kind of. But we get to Craig and Austin, which is nice to see these two together, like chit-chatting.

As we know now, it might have been short-lived because they're back in a weird place. But they bring up a text from Taylor. Taylor texted Austin and was like, hey, the girls are all talking about the fact that you kept asking Sally to show you her boobs while we were on vacation, making it seem like this was a big issue, that Sally wasn't happy with the whole situation, that she feels some type of way towards Austin for continuing to ask it, the fact that he's got a girlfriend now, like there's a lot of things being thrown around in this little scene of him down in the Bahamas saying, show me your boobs. So it sets the stage where I'm like, oh, shit, is Sally pissed off about this?

Like, what happened? Like, are we going to hash it out at the party? like we're going through a third party here in Taylor. But are we going through a third party or do they have footage of Sally telling everybody this? Sally did tell everybody. Okay, incredible. We have footage of Sally telling everybody this that could have provided context to the viewer and they chose to once again. Oh, yeah.

The girls hanging out show us a little snippet. Enough. Like, I can't say it enough. It's insane to me that we don't give them any sort of spotlight. Like those scenes looked fun. We saw this and we talked about. about it the whole time like yeah you know if taylor doesn't do anything or she doesn't step up and make any friends on the cast then it's going to be really hard for her to be on this show

we watched her get closer to people in the bahamas she was part of that conversation sally said it we could have had context on how sally feels about it was she joking about it or was she saying it made me feel really weird because if that made her feel super weird austin is going to have to grovel and it's shitty behavior i mean it's shitty behavior to begin with of course but if she didn't take it that way then you're clear you're fine i don't know we have to figure out what's going on is are doing this to be shady because she doesn't like Sally. Is Sally talking about it in a negative way? We don't know because

we're not going to get that whole footage. No, we just get enough to keep it ambiguous. It's just enough to be like... They keep it like a mystery. Like, why? Yeah. Fucking footage. Maybe they have nothing else to talk about because nothing else happens this episode. But everyone's getting ready for the party. Everyone's meeting up with their dates.

We get to see Andrew again, who I forgot about entirely and can continue to forget about entirely. Don't need him. And you get Shep Molly. Molly's got a ball sack door knocker, which is pretty funny. So good for you, Molly. Nice job there. And

that whole interaction was also strange. I don't know, but I also feel like that's just how Shep operates on a date. Like I don't think that was. How do I put this? It was it was like organized awkwardness. Like it seemed

it seemed awkward in the right way. And I don't know how awkward. Yeah. And like they were both viving on the awkwardness. That's a positive thing. And I didn't really get it, but it felt good to me. And I don't know how it made me feel. But, you know, we don't have time to discuss that.

No, we don't need to get into your feelings. That would take too long. But yeah, that's a good way to put it. They were both thriving in the awkwardness with one another. And they were enjoying the weirdness because she's quirky. We know she's a little quirky. So, I mean, it makes sense. And I could work.

It just bummed me out because I'm like, I like them together. She needs to run, get away from that man, but they were cute together, which again, kind of sucks, but we get to the party. And Leva is also over Ryan,

which is, again, I'm a little confused. If you're mad at Ryan for his involvement, sure, but the fact that the barber's not catching any flack, I still don't understand, but I don't understand that.

I will give her some, like, it's just, again, it's weird because it's JT, because she's like, you know, if you're going to do this,

then call J.T. like a man instead of whisper down the lane. I'm like, fair, but J.T. doesn't do that. He just takes it, like, no matter what it is, if he finds out that someone's been, quote, unquote, slighted by somebody else, he takes it upon himself to be the vindicator, the, like, Captain Justice. So, and it's just not friends, Brian's not friends with JT. So like, yeah, like you're on the same show together, but he's actually friends with Vanita.

If he stepped into it and called Vanita when they're not close, then yeah, I got that that just seems like he's a little thirsty for some airtime he got a nugget of information from his barber of all places and decided to bring it to the show in a weird dramatic way if that was the case then i'm fully on levis side saying this like yeah kind of shitty just go to jt if you have an issue with it with what happened and you truly do weird about it's also him just doing his job bringing a rumor to cause a little bit of a mess i mean granted this we're all different this one's different because of the the racial undertone so i will say that obviously But that wasn't like a big focal point.

I thought that was going to be a bigger issue than it was. They were really focused on the sum girl. The sum girl. I think once they cleared it up, there was no reason to continue to perpetuate that the other thing was said. And if it really obviously wasn't meant that way, then, you know, good instead of like doing that all of that. Because it could have been a lot darker. It could have been a lot weirder if JT had said that and meant it.

And it's really messy. But it seems like Vanita, when she talked to JT about the whole thing, cleared it up enough. And she clearly believes him. And even we do to an extent. Like, he probably didn't say that. It's the same thing as him calling Miss Patricia a bitch. It probably didn't happen. It's not how J.T. talks.

He operates in a weird way. He's an asshole. He's not great towards women, even though he thinks he's great towards women. But I don't see him doing either of these things, saying either of those things verbatim. So, you know, we're not standing up for him. We're just, we're truth seekers. That's what we are. Sure.

We're truth. We are journalists. Yeah. Or something. They're Bravo experts, according to Ryan. but we get to Austin and Sally and Austin obviously is trying to yeah well he's trying to clear the air because he doesn't really know where he stands with he's like hey uh I was I was let in on a little information that you know you're upset with the me saying that stuff down in the Bahamas

and I want to apologize to and Sally's like whoa well where's that coming from yeah and she's like well it's coming from Taylor and she's like okay and they both clarify with one another it. This was intended as a joke. It was received as a joke. It's a stupid joke. He shouldn't have said it. But she doesn't feel any type of way about it. She's upset that once again, Taylor has found herself talking about Sally when Sally told Taylor not to talk about her. And the thing that kind of puts it into perspective for where Taylor's coming from, because again, we could have easily just had the context, but we didn't. So let's operate with what we have. The fact that Sailor, or Sailor, Sailor. Sailor. Sailor.

Wow. Siler Moon. The fact that Taylor said that, and what she said to Austin was, it seems like she's coming for your relationship now. That's a little something. That's clearly, hey, I'm snitching on Sally and you need to get ahead of this because I don't like what she's doing. That's mean girl behavior. That's stealing in relation. Well, they don't like each other.

Sally and Taylor do not like each other. Rightfully said, she's dating. Yeah, she's dating. They both hate each other's ex. Yeah, they both are. So clearly they don't like each other. That's fine. But I don't think, because I know some people were talking about it being like a trap laid out for Sally to see if Taylor was going to spill the beans so that she could go after Taylor because she doesn't like her.

I don't think that Sally was thinking two steps ahead. I think she was just talking about it in a group setting. And Taylor took that privy information and ran to Austin, put a different context on it and said, you better watch out for this. And thankfully, Austin tried to clear the air right away because it shows Sally like, hey, yeah, no, she just leaked this information to me. But she's trying to put a context like you're trying to mess with my relationship now. And Sally's like, no, no, it was a joke. I wasn't taking it like that. So it goes right back to Taylor.

So Taylor's just snitching. That's what happened in here. And she takes it directly to Taylor and says, hey, can we chit chat? Some little chit chat over here. You know, let's just talk it out real quick. I thought we agreed to keep each other's names out of our mouths. And yet here I have an instance of you with my name in your mouth again. Yeah, we have a lot of names and mouth off.

Yeah, a lot of Will Smithoffs. Yeah. A lot of Will Smith offs here. And she's like, you texted Austin. She's like, I did. And Taylor's like, well, I don't know how you portrayed it to the girls. And Sally's like, exactly. You don't know the context.

You don't know what we discussed. You weren't there. So you're not privy to that. So why are you going to him and talking about it in a negative way when you don't know how we discussed it, which is a valid point because now you are once again pulling Sally into a situation that she doesn't deem to be a situation and you're causing shit for her. where she doesn't want it. That's a problem.

Not only that, but you're betraying girl chat. And the biggest thing that Taylor's had an issue with is making friends on the show. You got close to them again. You had some fun of the Bahamas. You can just keep Sally a little bit away. You guys aren't going to get along. That's fine. Molly's super nice.

Madison seems to like you. Vanita seems to like you. You were in pretty much everybody's good graces and immediately you betrayed that. You betrayed the trust. You're going to go right back on the outskirts, especially after all of this. So dumb move by Taylor. You're going to go right back to where you were at the beginning of the season. People are going to start to remember again that you and Shep broke up and then you hooked up with Austin.

I don't think it's going to get that bad. I don't think it's going to get that bad. I wouldn't be surprised somebody like Leva brought it up. Like, dude, really like you got back and now we're going to bring this back up. Yeah. But it might be like a check yourself moment more so than you're back out. She just never does herself any favors. Like there is just no strategic advantage to bringing this up to Austin at all.

None. It just isn't. You got to look at this. like hey yeah this could go a long way if i don't say anything let's just keep it here and here we find out it was taken as a joke so it didn't need to go anywhere austin actually didn't need to find out that anybody was talking about it it would have been fine yep but here we are well done but we do get a funny scene where they're toasting and they're like cheers to dating exes and so i got the better one tell's like i got the best she already said that it's like sick guys

you got her like or we in fucking middle school both you guys both got the worst i got the best I got the best one. They're both bums. Okay? They're both bums. Nice job, everybody. Writing over Andrew and Gastone. Fucking loser off.

Jesus, but... Hey, Michael. Hey, Tom. Big news to share it, right? Yes, huge. Monumental. Earthshaking. Heartbeat sound effect.

Big. Mink is back. That's right. After a brief snack nap. We're coming back. We're picking snacks. We're eating snacks. We're raiding snacks.

Like the snackologist, we were born. to be. Mates is back. Mike and Tom, eat snacks. Wherever you get your podcast. Unless you get them from a snack machine, in which case, call us. Here the most popular fiction podcast of all time, which the New York Times described as what might occur if David Lynch was a producer at your local radio station.

Welcome to Night Vale is a twice-monthly update from a small desert town. where the paranormal is real. Every conspiracy theory is true. We all have to get on with our lives anyway. Welcome to Night Vale is available wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times. And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director. You might know me from the League, VEP, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters.

We come together to host Unspool, a podcast where we talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, must-season, and Casey Mistims. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night. So if you love movies like we do, come along on our cinematic adventure. Listen to Unspooled wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to hit the follow button. Let's get to Ryan, Leva, and Vanita.

I don't think Ryan expected what was coming when he walked into that room. Because he's like, hey, how's the party? Like, you guys having fun? Let me hide these feathers. I fucking hate him. But we're enjoying ourselves, no. and they both get into it and they're like, look, we talked to the barber

and obviously what he said was jarring and it was confusing and so we called him to clarify and it sounds like you were spreading rumors or whatever and Ryan's like whoa whoa whoa like that's not true and Ryan defends himself in saying

this is what I had heard when I heard this I am friends with Vanita therefore I thought it was important for me to let Vanita know what had happened because I'm not friends with JT and here I see this this friend of mine that is infatuated with this dude that is continuing to lead her on it's worrisome to me I'm worried about my friend I hear this so of course I take it to her to make sure that she protects herself I'm like mm-hmm okay if you also thought that it would

give you a little screen time and be a little shady again is that not what the show's for like I will say like yeah that the pile on on jt is not fun i don't think that everyone needs to hate him just because the rest of the group hates him i'll get on board with that sure but again what i'm looking at this we like to try to be logical and use evidence and take what we got from these scenes it's like my blame still goes to the barber like without a doubt it goes back to the barber there there's nowhere else to look i don't really understand any of this and you put it best ryan was not expecting this. And this is the most he's had to talk all year. Oh, yeah.

He was the longest. He had to be on camera. He was so nervous. And I get it, but he's defending himself. And if you're going to stand in that and stand on business, you should be comfortable enough to get through this whole conversation. The funniest part about the entire thing was Rodrigo stepping in. Yeah.

He's, he got the fucking boot. But I actually really, that's the funny part too. I felt bad for Rodriguez. you go he caught the stray but like Ryan was well within his right to do that you know what I don't need any more opinions in here get out yeah right right out like that was really funny to me that was the best thing that Ryan did in the entire season but he didn't really defend himself that well because I thought that his lead up talking about being friends of Vinita and not friends with JT was good enough again we're putting it back on the barber the barber's the one paraphrasing here and making

stuff up and spreading the rumor that's how it got to Ryan why are we forgetting this I don't understand, but he explained himself really well, Leva just wouldn't back down. Levin was letting them have it. Yeah, she kept going. Again, she must really like JT, and I don't really understand that either. That's, you know, I'm already still trying to wrap my head around the whole Vanita thing, but. Well, she brings out. I don't get it.

She's like, you heard J.T and you just, your subconscious jump to blame you're on the hate train. He's like, no, I stand by what I said. There's a lot of people on that hate train. Rightfully so. Yeah, look, to himself. He does. And again, I am not on board of the everyone kick JT while he's down trained. But again, looking at this scenario, it's hard for me.

If you're mad at Ryan. Ryan got no grace. Sure. Ryan got no grace. None. The barber is completely exonerated. The JT told his barber about Vanita coming on to him. Whether he said some girl or not, he still told the barber that Vanita was coming on to him.

and it's going to put him in a world to hurt with his current girlfriend. No one's really breaking that one down. I don't know why. We're not talking about the fact that JT's leading her on this front time. Yeah, no. So we're going to let that lie. Was Leva. I know.

And we're going to let that lie because we have to go after a bigger, badder villain in Ryan. Ryan simply heard information from a barber. Everybody hates JT. JT has had a terrible season. He's been talking and running his mouth the entire season. Ryan heard the information and went to his friend to tell her. he didn't change anything he said exactly what the barber told him leva heard the conversation with the barber i don't know how you don't walk away from that conversation thinking yeah the barber

probably said that okay cool let's leave it at that like that's really all you have to do you don't have to go for a witch hunt towards ryan i don't think he really deserved that it was funny to watch just because he was so nervous but it was just confusing the whole thing was so confusing but let's keep going ryan and vanita they end up making up and again he says this is what my barber said to me i wasn't trying to be hurtful you're my friend and because you're my friend I'll always warn you. I was like that it makes sense to I don't know maybe I'm missing

it made sense to me I don't know but you get to Craig and Austin they have another like Kumbaya moment like I've never been more connected to you than ever man like yeah we're nature's healing and I we weren't even close enough for me to ask you about your girlfriend to even dating for six crazy I was like Jesus that stuff and awful to hear yeah

and again like what's your name again Audrey No, I know her name. Yeah, we do, but he doesn't. But, like, you can tell that he's like, he's still fishing or maybe he's trying to make himself feel more confident. It's like, you know, it's like when you can be yourself fully around somebody they accept you and blah, blah, blah. And he's like, referencing page again.

Yeah. It's like, oh, man, that's not what we're seeing at the moment at all. And he's 99% confident about his proposal coming up in 2024. It's like, yep, it's happening. 99% confident I was like oh oh no no no sweet Jesus but well I guess at this point he already had the ring so he was just waiting for her to tell him that it's okay to propose it's you're ready I'm ready yeah it's tough the whole situation's tough but shepp and molly are hitting it off and they do make sense together if he wasn't such a piece of shit because she's she's just so sweet

and nice and I don't want her to get fucked over by chef that would really bum me out but Craig texts Shep to make out with her. And I don't know if they saw that text and we got an edit, but she just grabs him and kisses him. And what I thought that was, was she saw everybody looking. She saw them all like giggling and she's like, I'm so fucking done with this and just gets it out of the way.

After what she had to go through in the Bahamas out in the water. Like I'm not doing this again. We're not going through this because I know if I don't kiss him, I'm going to walk back over there and they're all going to tell me, go find him and go kiss him. Let me just get this, do this now under my own power and just get it over with. And it was funny to see

Shep's face afterwards. He was like so smitten to like, whoa. He's a little schoolboy. He's like, oh my goodness. Oh my, my first kiss for a lady. God, let's just get that out of the way. I didn't really care for the first update after all of this. I hope that, I hope Molly cleared that because that would be wrong.

Oh, the fire? Yeah, that was a lot. The dry spell? Well, she had said that. I know, but like hopefully Molly was like, yeah, we had sex and yes, you can tell all the people. Yeah, that's kosher. I don't know.

That was pretty nuts. I hope so. It was pretty fucking nuts. But you get to two months later, and that's where we get JT and Vanita started dating until dot, dot, dot, dot. And that's, that's again, the original story that came out was they had started dating,

ghosted her, girlfriend pops up like two weeks later after they hadn't discussed it. So then we get. It has to be a move. I'm sorry, but like the more we know. And now JT's coming out. with all these quote unquote receipts and it's like oh boy reunion he is at the reunion i know like

you couldn't finish up with any confessionals but you're going to go to the reunion like that tells me that you want to come back next year which is bothering me oh do you think he is going to come back he wouldn't go to the reunion if he didn't want to come back he's not the type that's like i'm going to go clear my name like he's he's probably going to end up taking some sort of a beating i would hope at least because of some of the things that he said and again the two biggest things he didn't actually say. We agree with that. And he's free from those.

It doesn't make you a good person. So he still should get some sort of a beating. But a lot of people on this cast is a verbal beating at the reunion. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, totally. Just kidding. Just to clarify. Just to clarify. But yeah, I have a hard

time thinking that this isn't some sort of a move after all of that with the barber and knowing this is going to be on camera. Maybe he did have like a little bit of a break with the girl and he's like, you know, it would be great. is just to fill my time with Vanita. And then I can say I dated her and gave it a chance, but it just didn't work out and I went back to my ex.

I think that's probably what he was thinking to try to exonerate himself in some way. I just don't think that he did this on his like, like he was romantically involved in Vanita. Like he just wanted to. I don't know. I got there's so many questions. There's so many questions that I don't know if we'll ever get the answers to. And I'm probably not.

I'm curious because I don't know. Like I don't know what the timeline looks. like anymore i don't know who knew what i don't know i do know that he led her on for a long time i do know that yeah but the rest of it is just he said she said and i'm sure at some point i would imagine somebody will drop a bomb where it's like oh shit like completely undeniable but the episode ends up with the breakup and it's legitimately the teaser trailer like that's I rewatched the teaser trailer. It's funny that you even said that at the beginning,

because I rewatched the teaser trailer to make sure that it was the same thing. It was exactly the same thing. There's maybe three extra seconds of reaction shots. And that's it. It was just reaction shots too. And like I thought we were going to get like some sort of, I don't know, Austin interjecting and asking more questions, Shepp asking questions.

Maybe I could see the two of these guys probably bashing page or bashing Craig and page as a relationship just because that's, I don't think, oh, in that moment, yeah. But on the after show, Austin refrained when Shep decided to go on his little rant about yeah I know just the dumbest shit I've ever heard but I always hate people to do that after breakups in life but um yeah I don't I don't know

why we needed this like I don't either not gonna expand on it and show us more of you picking up cameras and having the three of them sit down and talk like it must have been a longer conversation there's got to be more here and they just didn't show it or there was nothing and then it was just completely fruitless either way the only thing I did get from it like what I what I can take away from from this scene is even after like at the end of it like Craig still doesn't get it because he when he does say you know I offered to move to New York City and like raise our kids in the city I'm like there you go you're offering to move your life to the city to almost force her into it on the flip side she knows that you would fucking hate it there so she doesn't want to like resentment from you but at the same time you're taking this this white picket fence life that you want in Charleston and just simply picking it up and trying to move it to New York when she's made it pretty evident that's not the life that she wants at least not

at this current moment in her life and her career she wants freedom to be able to go on tour see how far she can take the giggly squad because again they're fucking crushing it so she doesn't know what's going to happen next year that's another part of it too she wasn't expecting this so she's kind of along for the ride and has worked hard to get here so the whole point that he's he continued to miss and that NYC comment proves it is it's not about the location it's about what you both want she wants freedom to continue to go after her career you want to settle down yesterday that will not work that's why they broke up yep that's the picture that we've been painting the whole year with summer house charm we all know it now now there's no stone left unturned we're just

for the reactions. Maybe. We'll see. But let's get to some questions. Let's do it. First up here from Stacey Ma Seals. Thoughts on Craig saying he didn't trust Austin to keep the breakup a secret. Oh, yeah.

That was weird. That's a weird shot to take out of nowhere. It was a weird shot to take. I feel like that's why Austin just stayed quiet during the conversation. Yeah, that was bizarre. I didn't know why I had to take that shot. Oh, we want the. the steely rates are meb one two four how do you rate the ship and molly kiss um from a passion

standpoint like a four mm-hmm but from a just overall kiss standpoint i give like a 7.8 just because of shepp's reaction and actually know what i'll bump it to an 8.1 because what it was was a big middle finger from molly to the group like fuck off guys i see you looking at me so 8.1 good steely rates steely rates don't i always need those is early in my week. I got you, bro. Just helps me out, you know. A lot of long ones in here.

Oh, from Marissa Olvey. Olvey. Thoughts on housewives of Charleston with Madison is the main wife. I don't hate it. I don't hate it. I don't know if there's enough.

There runs the risk of now you have three shows in Charleston. Yeah, you can't do that. They're already doing crossovers. Yeah, I see what you're doing. I don't hate it. But yeah, that might be a little bit of tough. Just to keep Madison on her screens for longer, I agree with it, but... Yeah, that's true. Oh, no.

From Miranda and 412, not Bravo, but my husband wants to know your ages. He said, you're his age, 45. And she said, I said, my age, 36. Damn. Has he seen us? Yeah. To call us 45? Based off of voices?

There's it based off of voices. I'm 34. Me too. Yeah. we're 34 we're still in our early 30s not mid yeah mids 35 everybody knows it yep uh from kzy danzig

this just felt like a whole lot of nothing broken up with breaks of two months later and then more nothing yeah that's got a whole season honestly this one's kind of fun from julie joel oh boy julius zabs i'm sure i said that wrong but Jewel is Zabs. Julie Zabs. I don't. I don't know.

But you know who we're talking about. Jewel is Zabs. Jewel is Zabs. Zabs. Who would you cut for next season, is the question, since we took 30 seconds, trying to figure that one out.

Who would you cut? I mean, I don't think Ryan did enough. Get rid of them. Yeah, you can get right out of there. I'll get Taylor. another run yeah taylor taylor can go no taylor can go um i do this at the end of every southern charm here though um i don't know it depends they need to go off we don't whitney brings nothing to this show absolutely like be a producer and stay behind the scenes um please i mean the show needs to go in a more

female centric uh movement one thousand percent no one you guys know what i mean uh yeah so if they do that. Yeah, Taylor can stay just to see what the dynamics are for that. Just enough of the guys. Like, we know these guys. Sometimes they're fun. A lot of times it's tough to watch. We need, you know what we need from the dudes. We need the reprieve scenes from the dudes. We need when shit's like heavy. And now we're going fishing with Austin, like, back in Jersey was good. Yes, exactly. Like, give us a break from like drama to go watch the dudes do stupid funny shit and then come back. Because we've watched this show. where the dudes are central since it's inception.

Let's flip it now because it's not working. This season's bad. This is a bad season. So let's change it up now. That's a bad season. It's a bad season. We don't like that season. Let's do one more.

This is a cool one. From Grass Bouch. Why do you think Shep is now ready for a committed relationship versus with Taylor? He's not. He's not remotely ready. He's just saying that because he got his heartbroken and he's, He's having a moment of clarity where he's like, maybe I do need a girlfriend. And then he's going to go get laid and be like, I don't want a girlfriend.

And then he's going to be like, I do want a girlfriend, but I also want to get laid. And then he's going to cheat on his next girlfriend. He hasn't changed. It goes in the same cycle every single time. We can't get out of it. It's cyclical. We are stuck. Shepp is cyclical.

Everybody knows that too. But yeah, you see any other ones on there that we need to? No, no, no. No, I think we're good. yeah that's all I got I'm trying to see if anybody echoed our thing like why is Ryan getting all this shit

no there was nothing in there because Twitter was hot dude yeah Twitter did not like Ryan which we could be saying ourselves I get it not like that's fine what else is new no I mean I kind of understand it from like if you're saying purely

he hasn't done anything all season and now he's going to do this he's going to get involved in that this is just clearly a ploy to do it like yeah that's how these shows go whatever if you want to be upset with that fine I can understand that's like she's a fan of the show why is she on the show it's like

because everybody that's on the show now is a fan of Bravo if you take the show and the expectations of like creating drama out of it and look at this as just a normal situation how is nobody just looking at the barber like what are you doing dude why are you gossiping or hey man

what was said let's really clarify what was they didn't press him at all j t got like somewhat vindicated it was like all right dude ryan was also right like yeah and ryan was also right like yeah dude of course the barber is going to think about his business and make sure that he cleans up duh it just makes sense to me why is it makes so much sense to us and then everybody else give a shit about ryan like i don't care about ryan but it makes it just makes sense i don't know i don't get it new the fuck knows but yeah bad season do better Do you better next year? Reunion looks good.

Reunion has a chance to bring it from like a 5 to a 6.5 if they hit the reunion. Oh, I'm just going to look at the reunion as like a separate entity. I've already made my judging on the on the season. There's a bad season. I'm just saying a great reunion can salvage a mediocre season. This wasn't a mediocre season. This is a bad season. But a great reunion can bring it up a little bit.

I will say that. A little bit. Recency bias. You end on a high note. It's like, oh, that was great. It's all the matters. But anyway, that's all I got. You got anything else?

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