Bros & Shows - Tamra and Katie vs The Cast (RHOC Full Recap)

Episode Date: October 15, 2025

What's up Bros? This season continues on and we are seeing Tamra sit down with Katie. Emily is upset that Katie is back in the mix. Emily has an event for the innocence project. At the event, tensions boil over as Slade takes center stage (boooo). Gretchen maintains that he was the problem but also that he doesnt want to get involved. Slade and Gretchen attempt to confront Tamra despite the group telling her not to and Tamra leaves the event. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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We've got to be getting close to the end here, but it doesn't feel like the end. And I feel like, I don't know, this episode was a step back for me. See, I feel like this was a neutral step, but every time that I feel like we're getting close to the end, we're not. And I do think conspiracy theory, Peacock decided to incorporate the watch what happens live episodes as number episodes to throw us off so we never know where we are in a season. So we're just trapped for eternity in OC, which is my personal nightmare. Have me my bros and shows. Bros and shows. Brows and shows.

I got to have me my bros and shows. Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Bros. and Shows. I'm your co-host. Steele Russell, joined as always by the one and only Horns down McGowan.

What's up, dude? Horns are up this weekend. I decided to wear the only one of my teams that actually knows how to win anymore. Yeah, it's been a hell of a week. I also went on a golf trip, played 54 holes, and probably had twice the amount of holes to beer ratio. So, yeah. So you feel pretty good.

Feel great. I will say this, given the circumstances, you look good. You don't look like to play 54 holes and drag 154 beers. Yeah. I don't know. There's something to be said about golf actually being somewhat of an activity, especially like walking and going up and down. hills and whatnot. So there is probably some fitness involved in there while I'm drinking. So I can't be that bad for you. I'll take that. But we're back to talk OC. I'm getting concerned

because I think this is episode 16 and it doesn't feel like we're close to the end. And this episode showed that we don't have a lot to talk about. The end of the episode's fine. There's there's pieces here and there. We were talking before. I said that it was a step back. You said it was kind of a neutral episode. It probably is more neutral. But like the center of this episode is nothing. Like it's just the end. Yeah. It really isn't anything. I would say and we do kind of get away with this or get away from it rather in bad seasons or just boring seasons where we have a lot of questions. This seemed to me like a set up episode for them to go to Amsterdam next week, even though they didn't talk about going to Amsterdam this episode, which is usually a pretty

huge point for these set-up episodes, but it wasn't. It didn't seem like anything got accomplished, but again, if we're looking at it, like the Housewives season structure, this is a very typical ho-hum, we'll set something up at the end of the episode, a bit of a cliffhanger, a bit of drama, but really nothing else happens because we're going to Amsterdam next week, and we're going to be there for a couple episodes. So if I had a wager, I would say we have three actual episodes left. I hope so.

I hope it's three. And then we got three reunion episodes. And I got Watch What Happens Live again, which is infuriating. You mentioned that already. I went to go watch. It's like new episode. I clicked it. It's like, Andy Cohen tagline.

I was like, no, I don't want to watch, watch what happens live. Stop incorporating this into the show on Peacock. Put it in its own thing because it's frustrating. I know what you're doing. You're trying to bump ratings for Watch What Happens Live. That's not my problem. I had a thought. I think there might be more.

to it and look where you come to this podcast for the real analytical breakdown this is what we're talking about we're talking about why peacock is incorporating watch what happens live in the weird timeline of episodes i think what it actually is because a lot of people do watch watch what happens live and a lot of time what you have to do is go back to the watch what happens live thing then go through comb through figure out what the date was who's on the show and then you can look and say they don't have any anybody from OC on there now i know they had Heather on for this one, but they don't have anybody from OC on there. I don't really care or, you know, current events.

We want to hear what's going on with Wendy, which this is, I felt this because when we do news episodes, Bravo always screws us over and releases a ton of news the next day. This happened to watch what happens live, which is hilarious because they filmed the Jeff Lewis, Ashley Darby episode on like Thursday because they don't film watch what happens live over the weekend. So they had this ready to roll for Sunday night, let it go, and they didn't talk about the big news so that's hilarious to me they got got we've been got before so i feel that we get got a lot uh so i definitely feel their pain on that one we are going to do a news episode this week i know we

got a full do we need to discuss the fall from grace of that's the funniest part we were just praising these two in our most recent potomac episode praising this see what happens you see what happens when we open up our stupid mouths funny i do think we had like a one-off comment when we were about Happy Eddie's weed business that we did say we don't know how this works and I don't know what's legal and what's not legal. Now I don't think like none of the fraud stuff that is really going on is pertinent to his business necessarily. I'm sure there's more to come out. There might be some like hangovers here and there. But we did at least have like a comment here or they're like yeah, I don't really know if what they're doing is legal. Who the hell knows? And then we just kind of

moved on. It was just a one off comment. We may have been right. No. Maybe we had it first. No. There might be a couple of stragglers out there of things I don't know about. But as far as what's come out, just for those listening now, it was like insurance fraud. Wendy claimed that her bags got stolen. Then she returned the bags to the store to get the money back and got the insurance claim. I think there's seven counts, seven counts of felony fraud that I heard of. They emailed each other and said, hey, this is what we're going to do and what we're going to claim is gone. so why for people who are very smart and she has what seven degrees and eddie seems like he's got

his head on right one degree for felony in yeah why in the world are you sending an email and not just having a conversation it's your wife it's your husbands go home and talk about it i don't care if you're doing insurance fraud to be honest i don't give a shit but oh it doesn't hurt me at all i don't care it means nothing to me and i don't think about like obviously it's funny but it's not like, you know, Jen Shaw going to prison for what she went to prison for. So it's kind of funny, but at the same time, it's the stupidest shit that I've ever heard. And we'll have a full breakdown on that this week when we do our news episode. I'm sure that I'll take up a bunch of our time.

We will read about all of the counts and we will put our lawyer hats on and we will discuss as fake lawyers do. Yes, we will. But back to O.C. Let's just dive into this episode because it's not going to take us too long to get to the end. And then we can speculate for a little while, which is always fun. Yeah, maybe we've got some good questions at the end from our listeners that'll take up some time here. Yeah, and we start out with Emily and Gretchen doing some hat making and Emily and Gretchen, right? Who?

Who? Who? Gretcher's. Yeah, thank you. Sorry, Emily and Gretcher's, which is such a bad nickname and it's so forced in. It's like when someone joins a friend group and they call somebody their nickname right out of the gate and they haven't earned that right and it just sounds weird. You know what I mean? It's like trying to force a nickname.

This is not. Yeah, okay. Yeah. It's just a comparison of forcing. Yeah, no, it's a bad nickname, but it's just the intent of forcing a nickname down your throat. Yeah, thanks for reminding. Nails on a chalkboard. Yeah, to say the least.

But they are going hat-making and they're setting up the Innocence Center Western Party later this episode. It's a fundraiser for Anthony. We met Anthony last season. He was exonerated from first of, agree murder, which is nuts, but they're doing a fundraiser for him to send in Mechanics School, blah, blah, blah. Cool. Love that. But we're here to talk about the Tamara Cake event. They're recapping this whole thing. Well, before you get into that, do I love it? I don't care about what Emily does anymore. I think it's a great program. I think that's, you know,

cool and everything. Oh, I'm speaking specifically about Anthony. I love that for him. I don't care about Emily. No, because Emily lost all good faith that we had after last year. And we still will talk about it nearly enough well we talk about it but no one else does at the reunion she just lost all credibility i don't care if you're doing other things to help other people out you're still a bad person so no sorry about it anyway they're recapping the tamara cake event and talking about how tamara was pissed off because she mentioned the trust thing which of course it's going to piss off tamra but you were right to say something about it and if you look at it from a friend's standpoint you have to be honest with your friends to be able to move on from things that are

bothering you about your friend that's what she tried to do so emily is in the right here despite what happens after this because tamara and gina have a juxtapose scene tamara walks into this restaurant with her sunglasses on like somebody just killed her dog yeah okay the victim mentality immediately is insane and she's like i'm so sick of this shit and i'm going through a hard time I was like, yes, we know you are. You said this multiple times. It doesn't take away from what Teddy is going through. But at the same time, you have been an asshole now for four months and you haven't changed

at all. You're going to psychotherapy. There's nothing. Nothing has been fixed, Tamara. You're doing the same stuff. And now you're playing the victim in the worst part, the worst part. And of course this happened is now Gina is bending the knee again. You know, I saw you.

It's just like that night over it. Vicki's and I was like she really is going through a hard time so I need to make sure that she's okay like fuck off dude well how do we get back here again it's this awful cycle of just the same shit with the same people and here we go again yeah um we kind of obviously half expected or you know fully expected actually that most people would fall back in line mostly because they're afraid of Tamara jean is absolutely just afraid of Tamara terrified Heather, it's a different brand of scared. It's more just, and she said this on Watch What Happens Live.

Tamara gets to a certain state of mind and you look at her, you're like, I don't want to deal with this. I don't know what you're about to do, what you're about to say. So I think Heather's is from a different standpoint. Gina is just petrified of Tamara. And I don't, I mean, I don't really care why, to be honest. I don't even really need to think about it. At least one or two people need to stay out on that bridge, stay out on that island by yourself. and do not cross back for at least a little while.

Just hang out there for a bit, just to activate Tamara a little bit because it is funny and we talk about it and I think we were both annoyed at it a couple years ago when she first came back. But now we've gotten to a point where at this juncture of the season and we still haven't gotten a whole lot out of everybody, Tamara crash out still works.

It still plays every single time. So if you can get one or two people out there refusing to bend the knee at least for a couple episodes until we get to Amsterdam, it'll keep her in like a manic state that'll at least be fun to watch. And that's good enough for me. But Gina, obviously coming back, did not surprise me whatsoever.

Emily and Gretcher's sitting down and doing their hats in the juxtapose scene. They're not friends. I don't know. Did you get that during this, the interaction that they had in the interaction that they had at the end of the episode? I don't see Emily liking Gretchen. I don't even see Gretchen liking Emily. But they're acting like they're good friends during this. Like, hey, we got to talk a little bit deeper about this and get through it.

And then as soon as they have any conflict, you can see that they just don't like each other. And I don't know this like forced one-on-one sit down acting like their friends and the stupid Gretcher's nickname. You're not fooling me at all. You guys don't like each other. You're just playing it up with the camera. And you can tell as soon as push comes to shove, they're both so irritated by each other. And they know how to get under each other's skin. And it's funny to watch.

But don't try to, you know, piss on my back and tell me it's raining. I don't care if you guys are friends or not. Just act like you're not. Yeah, it's clearly a scene that production's like, hey, you're filming with Gretcher. here's today. So make sure you head on over there. And you can tell like when the scene ends that yeah, they're not friends. It's not even that much of a conflict. It's just the eye rolling and the immediate like I can't deal with this shit kind of tells you everything you need to know about it. But the big thing that's brought up with Heather and Gina and Tamara is Heather trying to

explain to her yet again. And I understand the frustration in Heather's voice and saying I explain it to you before. I'll do it again. Tam's like don't be condescending. It's like, Oh, God forbid, clutch your pearls. But she explained it to you, you are not trustworthy. There are things about you that are alarming as a friend. Heather loves you, wants to be close to you. These are the things that are making her hesitant, which she has relayed to you very gently.

She's tried to compare it to her father to give some context. She's tried to walk you with training wheels to the water to have a drink. But you refuse. And instead, you just want to be parched for the rest of your life. It's very clear what Heather wants out of you. You can do that, but you're still sitting behind your glasses at the table, like everyone's kicking your dead dog now. That's not happening, okay?

It's great TV. It's funny to watch Tamara just, I don't know how she holds on to her side so hard. It's almost impressive. But I understand the frustration from Heather. Meanwhile, Gina's like, yeah, I know Tamara. It's okay. You're going to be fine. But on the other side of things, Emily brings up Katie.

I don't know what Katie has on Emily. Emily she has to have something on Emily you can tell that's the only thing and the best part about this entire situation they're not going after Emily right now it's going to take just trying to think this through Katie getting back is going to be go after Gretchen that's the main accomplishment here maybe maybe if we get to the reunion we get through all the Gretchen shit there might be some time left over to bring up whatever you might have on Emily but if Emily just plays dumb and and doesn't say anything, we're not going to get to that this season. And then you can strategize and figure it out next year if Katie comes back. Or Katie's not going to come back and you don't have to worry about it. So it's just very, very funny to me because she's so obviously scared about something that Katie has. Or maybe she's just scared because she's going to get retribution for the reunion last year. I don't know what it is.

I can't figure it out. But Emily clearly knows that Katie has something. And that's why she's just been trying to out her. Yeah. And she's trying to talk to Gretchen about this whole thing. And it's like, well, if we take it back. to the reunion because you and I have not let this go. It's astounding to me that it is not a talking point.

But to me, it feels like Emily knows that she opened the door. And Emily must have some skeletons in her closet. And she's like, fuck, if I dug around on Katie, Katie's probably digging around on me. I thought we ousted her. I thought she was gone. Because the faux outrage against Tamara for sitting down with her. Again, you're acting as though Katie is the one that killed Tamara's dog. I'll just keep using Tamara's dog.

Yeah, why not? didn't do anything that bad, especially in the grand scheme of this entire group in the entire Bravo sphere. Like, what she did is pretty basic housewifery. It's not that big of a deal. She was just sloppy about it. But we're maintaining that she is this supervillain that has tried to ruin this group, has tried to ruin Emily's life.

Calling her a pathological liar because you caught, caught her on a lie detector test saying probably the truth and saying that she was actually lying doesn't really hit. It doesn't make any sense. we are taking an approach from a very pragmatic standpoint. She did stupid shit. You guys all talk to bloggers, but she was talking to every blogger. She was meeting with them.

She was taking pictures with them. She was fan-girling over half of the bloggers. So that was a bad approach. We all know it was a bad approach. But is she actually any worse than any of you? No, not really. Is she actively lying about things? Not to the best of my knowledge.

It seems like maybe she lied a little bit to protect Gretchen early on because, yeah, let's be honest. That is a pretty damning situation. And if Gretchen did say that, at first, you could say, all right, let's, like, not open this bag of cats right now or bag of worms, can of worms. I don't know. Can a word. Bag of cats. Bag of cats.

Crazy is a bag of cats. Let's not open this up right now because it's only going to damage somebody further. Okay, fine. If you take a look at it from there, you don't really want to open that up. I get it. But the rest of it, she's not really lying about. I don't think they really caught her lying about anything necessarily unless, yeah, of course, she was talking to the bloggers. But again, I don't really give a shit.

And if she lied about that, she just thought that she was caught. But she's not this huge mastermind, pathological liar, trying to tear everybody down. You're putting her in the same category as like a Monica Garcia. She's just not at all. She made some dumb moves. She lied a little bit, but they're all white lies. You guys all lie. Who cares?

So the only thing that makes sense to me is that Emily scared about something. What? I don't know. But she's scared about something. I know. And I can't wait to find out what it is. I hope we find out what it is because watching her. squirm is bizarre. And they get into it over Slade and Tamara because Emily's comparing what Gretchen

does to Tamara, which is fair. They are very similar. They do do the same move. She even does it by pulling out receipts, quote unquote, receipts to exonerate herself while sitting with Emily. Right. But the other part of this is Emily, I don't know what it is, but she can't take any pressure. If anything pops off, she just storms off and gets loud. It's like that's adding to the Katie stuff for me. It's like, what the hell's going on that you're so tense about right now? Because I don't get it. The best way to look at it is we know what Katie has on Gretchen. She can out her for the fact that she did tell her, that she thought Tamara drugged her,

that she did go to the hospital, which she did tell other ladies, which is just puzzling why we're not talking about that a little bit more, especially back when it happened. But you can tell Gretchen the way that she's reacting to Katie potentially coming back in the group, to Katie talking to Tamara. is reasonable. She knows what she has on her. We know what she has on her.

And she's not even acting a third of the frantic behavior that we're seeing from Emily. That should just tell you everything that you need to know, that there's something there that Emily does not want to get out. And look, again, we may never find out. We might not be able to confirm this. But you can't tell us what her eyes are watching right now. She's very scared. Yeah, because if it's not that, then we continue to further speculate.

And it gets more and more interesting that the only person of color. on this show is getting targeted. So that's the route that we're taking and not because we want to go that way, but there's a reason there's so much hatred towards this woman who did less than the rest of you have done to each other. So part of me, a lot of me, the biggest part of me is hoping that there's something buried here that we're going to find out because if not, it's going to make, oh, okay, I see why you hate her now.

And that's a pretty shitty look for Emily, who already has a pretty shitty look right now. Anyway, let's keep trucking to look, I tried to be as respectful as I can when it comes to psychics on these shows. You usually take the other route. I love this one. This is the biggest bullshit one I've seen. Yeah, but it leans so far into the bullshit that it's funny. You know what I mean? I just thought it's like, what a scam.

Like, this is ridiculous. The things that she's saying about the dogs are so just cherry picked out of the air. It's like, okay, small dog stroller. Small dogs are in strollers. Have you ever joked around about having the dog in a stroller? No. Ah. Maybe you should.

Yeah. Now, the funny thing is two things are going to come from this conversation that we saw. One, Shannon is a thousand percent going to get another dog and that's fine because she's an empty nester and Archie wants a friend. That makes sense to me. Go ahead, get another dog for Arch. Yeah, take care of Archie. Jen, I mean, I don't look at her Instagram, but I would be.

shocked if there wasn't a picture of her dog in a stroller quickly after this. I guarantee you she went out because Jen strikes me as somebody who believes all of those things. I think these two are probably the perfect people from this cast to be sitting down with a dog psychic. Anybody else, it would have been a little too annoying. They wouldn't have bought into it,

but they would have thought that they were making good jokes and nobody on this cast is funny. Heather's probably the funniest one because she's taking improv classes. Everybody else is just like, oh, God. But these two sitting down. listening and taking it seriously to the extent that Shannon had an entirely written out note on her phone going through all of the questions that she wants to ask Archie, who's not in

the room, who could not be bothered. I got to go sit out here and just soak it up in the sun and just enjoy myself. Get him another dog. He wants to have a little bit of fun. Jen, on the other hand, I hope this is your friend and not somebody that you're paying because that would be a little sad, but it is really funny. So I was okay with it. I enjoyed that.

That just made me laugh as far as like, wow, you guys are getting scammed so hard, especially when she's like, yeah, uh, there's something about like a long goodbye. Like he's talking about like a long drawn out goodbye. It's like, oh, did you just highlight one of the quintessential Shannon scenes from season after season after season of her leaving the house?

Yeah. Come on. Come on. You're not fooling me. Nah. Uh, uh, and I usually, yeah,

she did. Which is all the matters, you know. But let's get to Tamara and Katie. I thought this was going to be a long. longer scene. I mean, it got to the point for sure, but I was actually surprised with how quickly we got through this one. But Katie's clearly affected by this, which is sad. Like, you can tell that her mood is down, everything's down. She's talking about that. She's been

pretty emotional with this whole thing, which makes a lot of sense. She's bummed out about Jen. She's like, you know, she didn't stick up for me at all. She called me twice. I didn't even answer the phone. It's like, oh, good for you. You don't really owe her that answer. I don't think. Tamara pulls out the fake tears immediately, starts going to go crying. And she's like, I've been the odd man out so many times. Why? I'm surprised Tamara cried in the scene because usually what I would expect from Tamara is

more like villainous, more, uh, we're sitting down to discuss this one, huh? Let's get through it. Instead, it was very much more of like, I'm going to approach you on an emotional, I'm going to meet you on your level. Yeah. And I can tell that you're hurting, but I'm also hurting. We're both hurting, not for the same reasons, not nearly for the same reasons, but the same people are involved. So that's good enough.

Let's just do that. Yeah, well, teab up via sadness. Yeah, it's a good way to do it. We get Katie's side of things, which we've heard at this point. And the fact that Slade had called Matt and said, look, you got to hold the line. Don't share this because it's going to cause legal issues. 1,000% happened. Matt has zero reason to lie.

He had no reason to lie very calmly a month ago when, this first came up if you just watch that scene over it's like this man's clearly not lying he has no dog in this fight as far as the show goes obviously is going to stick up for his wife he's not trying to generate drama for the show he's trying to understand why the fuck am i in the middle of this when it seems so very obvious yeah i did think that it's a little confusing for me because slades involved in the way that katie was talking about it it almost seemed like i don't think this is true but it almost seemed like Matt misses him and Slate's friendship. And I'm like, that doesn't make any sense to me.

No, I am not getting that. Matt's trying to go to bat for Katie, I think. And I think he's trying to get a hold of Slade to get him to explain in the situation. I think Slate's ghosting him now. That's what I got out of it. That's more in line with what happens, I'm sure. But the way that she was explaining, I'm like, there's no way that Matt like misses the friendship. He's like, Slade was called Matt all the time.

And then it was just radio silence. I'm like, he doesn't miss Slade, right? No, I think that's again in regards to. this whole situation. It's got to just be like, we need to figure this out. Oh, I held the line, or rather Katie held the line for Gretchen, then got ousted. And now you guys aren't helping her. And now you're not answering my calls. This is kind of fucked up. There you go. That's, that's exactly what it is. And we know from history that Slade wants to be a housewife. Of course, he's in the center of this whole thing. And if you go back, because Gretchen keeps trying to

deny the fact that she's the one that said initially that she boinked Jeff timmins or bleep timmins we watch that scene we've seen cutscene after cutscene of that scene and then when you talk to slage you like why would you say that he didn't say that you said that so emily's calling you out for that now i agree with gretchen earlier when she's talking to emily it's like you need to take some accountability to emily and that's when emily got like in an uproar and left because yeah you were egging it on you were saying listen to the song you were trying to get more out of her you were setting this whole thing up to make it worse you and heather were both involved. Heather, less than Emily, but Slade is clearly the issue.

And Slade is clearly the issue that got Katie kicked out of this group, which is bullshit, that we are kicking somebody out of the group that I think could be a capable housewife because of some wannabe loser, grifter. Yeah. And also the byproduct of bringing Gretchen and Slade on to get rid of, not get rid of Tamara, but at least go after Tamara and go like toe to toe and get some good TV. The byproduct is that Katie gets kicked out of the group. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I do think, and look, I'm not going to go back and rewatch this.

But when Gretchen's explaining what happens and how we got to that point where they started talking about banging Jeff, it probably was Slade, but there's so much confusion now because, yeah, she brought up the song, which then brought up the secondary part of that conversation, which was that there was a rumor that Tamara and this guy had sex. And then we confirmed it with Slade. Either way, it's still, all roads lead back to Gretchen, bringing this up. So you don't just get to wash your hands of this. You're not very punch as piloty. So you can't really just do that and walk away and just blame Slade for it

because Slade wants you to blame him for it. He wants to be the center of attention, as we see at the end of this episode. So it's not going to work for me. It's not going to work for the viewers. And it's also not going to work for you because people are going to get very tired of that, even on the cast themselves. And they're just going to kick you out. And then you're going to be left again.

And this is probably what, happened to you, you know, seven, eight, nine years ago, whenever you actually stopped being a real housewife of OC back in the day, it was Slade's fault. I'm sure all roads lead to Slade. Yeah. So I just don't fucking understand how we're doing this again and again. And now you can see us in real time. We're watching Slade and Gretchen try to doctor the story, try to get it so that it's all his fault. And I really wish that you wouldn't do that. And we saw it over the last like three weeks. I really wish that you wouldn't bring that up. You have to be sorry to do that. It really did put us in a bad state. All right, let's pray on it. That's pretty much what we've seen for the last

three weeks. And I'm just sick and tired of it. I am too. I think it's really annoying. Let's get to Emily and her assistant. We check him with Heather real quick for the Trevor project, which is cool. She's helping kids in crisis. Big donation. Good for her. She's always taking care of the community. We love that about the group bros. They did. They looked really good. And I always, I always appreciate that the Debrose have fuck it money, but they also give some of that money back. So good for them. Sure do. Now let's get to Emily and I wrote down her assistant or something for the Innocence Project

is her friend's name. And we get to meet some of the people from the Innocence Project. Now, super sad stories. Really feel for these guys. I hope that they are able to get back on their feet. I hope that Innocence Project helps them out and helps them do all of those cool things. I have two takeaways from this. You don't care about the scene at all.

Can't tell you how much I don't care about the scene. We're not emotionally invested in Emily and they do the shit all the time. I don't think there's any viewer out there that's emotionally invested in what Emily's doing, emotionally invested in what Gina's doing. They care about Heather. They care about Tamara. And then, you know, some people care about like Jed and Gretchen or whatever. Gina and Emily, nobody cares about.

So when we have these scenes, which, you know, if you're a good housewife, this is kind of powerful. This is kind of fun to watch. This is good to see you giving back to the community. I just simply don't care on an emotional level. I do care about the project. I think the project great. I think that more people should probably be involved in it,

not just Emily, because it's going to be mean, but she's not a good face for the project. She's just not. She's not a good person. She's not captivating, and I don't care what she's doing. So she's not going to further it. That's what my takeaway is. That was my first takeaway.

My second takeaway is how does this get brought back? to your kids how did we get there i was confused i had to rewind because i looked up and i'm like why are we talking about your kids right now like mike i get it like yeah this man went to jail he went to jail for three years and didn't get to hold his daughter and or longer than that didn't get to hold his daughter till she was three years old and i get what you're doing it's like oh like i complain and i get sad about certain things but i get to see my kids every day it's like yeah okay fine but then you just keep talking about your kids it's like this is about them This is about the two men you're trying to highlight.

Talk about the project. Talk about what it's done for you even. Like this has been so fulfilling to work with this. That's fine, I guess. But to bring this, all that to say, the forcing of this storyline about her kids, given what happened last year, right, given her saying, stay away from the kids this, stay away from the kids that. And then you are constantly reinforcing and reminding us. us about what your kids are going through without their consent that's fucking annoying bro yeah yeah it absolutely is i there's nothing more to take away from the scene to be honest again this was

pretty much the whole episode with this stuff it's just very nice stories happy that it's happening happy that it's happening out there and not fully support it completely just like ignorant or anything for a housewife show that's just struggling to to really draw me in with any of their drama it's not going to hit it's just never going to work and they've been doing this for years but that takes us to the western event for anthony and uh of course Shane didn't dress up i hate hate when people don't dress up for theme parties just lean into it you look dumber when you don't dress up and of course who's he sitting on the phone with who's he on the phone with over there acting like he's doing business i don't know his his his accountant his his

fucking uh trust fund guy i don't know like we get another guy i need to i need to do something I need to get costumes for these parties. Yeah, something. Okay, maybe it's that. Can you allocate a little money so I can get a costume? I look stupid. And I love in the scene where Gretchen and Slate are getting ready for this party. One, Slade's tagline or name tag says Gretchen's life partner.

And the other thing, when they're sitting there talking, okay? And this is case in point why Slade sucks so hard. They're talking, right? And Eddie comes up. I think Eddie's going to be there. It's like, well, why would Eddie go? We the guys, we the men, don't respect Eddie because he allows Tamara to say and do what she wants. Oh, oh, he allows her.

He's her keeper. Got that. And the second part is, hey, Slade, we don't respect you. Anybody. Nobody respects you because you're a fucking deadbeat wannabe housewife with no job that leeches off of Gretcher's. Who are you to say who gets respect and who does? not i would have loved i would pay to see a very candid conversation between heather and terry about slade coming back into the mix this season before they started filming i just i want to know what

because when i watch terry terry strikes me as like i think heather probably has some relationships with some of the women on the show they have an incredibly different type of friend group that they hang out with off camera that they do not share with that they don't show anything about that are actually their friends. Terry strikes me as, uh, yeah, I guess we'll just come in here. I'll just make a couple of jokes and then I get to leave. That's pretty much all I have to do. I don't really actually have to talk to anybody.

That's what we get out of us. The fact that Slade thinks that he's involved in some guy group with these guys. And look, maybe he is. Let's just go through the guy group real quick. Shane, yeah, I could see that. Travis, who the fuck knows? Travis is probably just happy to be out there and not being, you know, followed by his ex or something.

I don't know. Everybody else, it's like Ryan, Ryan doesn't really respect any of you guys right now. So maybe Slade and Brian, but even Ryan, I get that like, all right, Slade, like enough. Slate's not involved in this group at all. And it's not even like an A-list type of group to be involved in. And he still can't even crack the barrier on that. So it's very funny to me that he talks this way. But I'm glad that at least other people leaned into it.

I like that Terry dressed up as the, you know, the high society Western wear. He's got the cowboy tie on, the big duster. I like that look. It's a good look. Nobody dressed up as Doug Dimmodome, which was kind of just-buburn. That is a bummer. Owner of the Dimm's-Dimidom for those that don't know. Delg Dimmodome.

Owner of the Dimsdale-Dimidom. I do have one question. This struck me as weird. Okay. So somebody asks Emily, how many people are wrongfully incarcerated? She says 46%. I'm not saying that that number is wrong. But she then goes on to say, yeah, it's like 100,000 people.

And I was like, that can't be right. So I googled it. There's 2 million people in the United States that are in prison right now. Two million. 100,000. I mean, I know that we, don't we have like the highest incarcerated? By far. Yes.

By far. So when she said 100,000, yeah, that number struck me is very low. 46%. I don't know where the fuck she got that from. I think she half listens at those meetings and she's like, oh, 46% that's a go. And let me jot that down. And then they give like the context and she doesn't hear anything. And then she hears 100,000 a little bit later, but it's probably a completely different number. And she's like, wow, that's a lot of people. Not nearly 46% of the people incarcerated, that's for sure. Not even remotely close to it. So that struck me as weird that you are the face of this organization, or at least in Orange County for this organization. You

don't know the numbers but whatever not going to read too far into it the katy conversation comes up almost immediately and emily's trying to force this conversation with anyone who will listen she's like tamara sat down with katy i told her i told her if she did this there there would be no coming back one not true you know the choice going to go back to tamara and two why are you so scared what what are you hiding this is making it look a lot worse because there's no reason The sense of urgency is bizarre, not even in just the context of a housewife show where they have to talk about these things. You can tell she's taking this completely out of context. She's not talking about even Tamara.

She's not talking about anything related to Katie. She's just bringing it up out of the blue because she's worried about it. There's something there. There really is. And if you're watching this and you don't think that there's something there, you do have to rewatch it, unfortunately. Watch it under that perspective. Yeah, do it under that perspective and just watch her squirm a little bit. and the fact that this is such a big issue

when it really shouldn't be. And again, if you just didn't like Katie and you didn't want her to be around, welcome to Housewives. That's every show to exist. They all don't like each other. There's so many shows out there where they're not friends

and they have to put up with filming. You do too. And your show has not been great. It's been so-so and it had one of the worst seasons that I've ever seen. You need stuff like this. So the fact that you immediately were able to spin it and get some,

somebody kicked out and then you were proud of yourself for like six episodes tells me one that there's something wrong here there's something that katy knows and two who were you get on your asshole high horse your show isn't that good you need more people you can't just kick people out you don't deserve that that always frustrates me when we have these conversations can you believe she sat down with her yeah she is part of the show she's on the cast as a full time house not even trying to break the fourth wall it just pisses me off i agree and the other part of it too like the more I get to the end of this season and the lack of Katie, what the fuck, Bravo? Like, why, why lean in and give in to the will of Emily and Gina?

And like, yeah, that's the funniest part when Tamara's talking about it, because Jen seems actually interested. She's like, oh, well, what did she say? Like, how to go? She's like, I think it right well. Now, I felt validated. And production asks, well, why is Katie credible now? And this is a two part of when it comes to Tamara.

The main thing is Tamara can use this, right? She recognized that I can take this angle and roll with it because I'm losing a lot of support. Fine. The other part of it is what she says is true. When more time went on, it starts to look like Gretchen and Jen threw her under the bus for some reason. And if you listen to what was happening, again, the moves she made were dumb. We can all agree. The blogger thing, leaving yourself open like that was a stupid move.

But at the same time, the context of what happened doesn't change. And she was telling the truth in a lot of that. She wasn't lying about a lot of those things. I will die on this hill that Heather did have the paparazzi and that Katie probably did find out that that was validated. But then she backed down because she was losing her spot on the show. So now we get to this season. Everything she said about Gretchen is true.

Slade is the center of this issue. And we have history to provide context of Slade being a problem. So you look at all of those things. You wrap it all up into one forensic database, where we're really trying to get to the bottom of this thing. What makes more sense that a second year housewife who got a lot of this info, who relayed this info about somebody that has a history, her husband has a history,

Gretchen has a history. All of these things line up. All of these things make sense that Gretchen would say one thing and act a different way, especially in regards to Tamara because she hates Tamara. That makes sense. What does not make sense to me is that everything Katie did is wrong. Everything Katie said was a lie. that doesn't track.

If you watch the episodes, it makes pretty clear sense what she's saying. Yeah, it definitely does. And again, I think when it comes to Jen and Gretchen, Gretchen knew what was going on. I'm still pissed off at the fact that she was able to sit there and tell both Shannon and Tamara that she did go to the hospital. Like, why are we not addressing that? If Katie's saying, yeah, she said she went to the hospital

and you guys are all yelling you, she's a liar, she's going to keep lying about this. But Gretchen herself said to Tamara and Shannon, I think Shannon is it such a, such a point of disarray when it comes to a friendship or potential relationship with Tamara that she doesn't want to do anything to help her out. Agreed.

But she could easily corroborate it and say, yeah, I don't get it. We were yelling liar at her when clearly she wasn't lying because Gretchen told us the same thing. Well, she's pissed off that she got recorded for her umptych meltdown. Just the whole fucking thing is in such. disarray, that they're not going to support Katie, but the fact, again, this goes on Bravo producers, that they allowed them to do that is wild.

And the fact that we got reports that they were going to hold Katie out for a good portion of the season and she's not going on the cast trip because they're worried about the other women filming with them. Who gave them this power? I don't understand it. Tamara has earned that power. I would say Heather has earned that power. I don't see either of them saying, I'm not going to film with Katie.

The only people I say that I could see saying, I'm not going to film with Katie. are Gina, Emily, and maybe Gretchen, but that's because she got caught into a lie. Everybody else, they're going to film with her, and they're good professionals, so they're going to continue to do it because they know what makes a good show. Those two don't know what makes a good show. Actually, they actively hurt the show. So why Bravo producers would bend the need of them is beyond me. It doesn't make any sense.

But when it comes to Gretchen and Jen throwing her under the bus, Gretchen, I could see doing that to try to get out of this scot-free somehow. I don't understand how she thinks she's going to get out. of it, Jen is the most easily influenced housewife, I think, of all time. I think once she gets close to somebody and she sees that there could be a friendship there, especially how her tenure started last year, where Tamara just got her two years ago and Tamara immediately threw her under the bus and just threw her to the wolves. I understand her part of it and I would be very surprised if we heard that she actively

threw Katie under the bus. I think she just heard from Gretchen, who heard from somebody else, like, we have to get rid of her. And she's like, oh, okay, yeah, she's a bad girl. I think she just went, okay. Right. Yeah, that's really all it is. So I don't think that she threw her under the bus, but Gretchen definitely then. I completely agree.

And not a lot happens then. Like we do this whole line dancing thing. There's half naked cowboys, Gina and the whatever group, I don't care, donates 5,000. Terry, I really wish he won up to her. Oh, the gate community. I think so the only reason I actually focused on that. The gate group. I believe that's the name of her realty group.

And I think it's her and Travis, and that is kind of funny to me. I don't know why that's funny to me, but I like the gate group, gated group, gated group. And I think it's, she's just selling houses and gated communities or, you know, seemingly gated communities. And I love that for some reason. I don't know why, but I really like the idea of her and Travis working together on that, building wealth, getting to that upper middle class. We love that.

Love to see it. The one thing that I will take away, though, is when Emily talks about, tells Gretchen about the Katie meeting. Her reaction, too, is curious because she goes, oh, shoot, really? I think you know you're fucked, Gretchen. And I think Emily is scared that it's going to fall back on her. I think we're starting to piece it together. We just don't have that bomb that makes sense for Emily to be so up in arms.

But Gretchen's clearly sweating. But they didn't show those. So, one, they left out a scene from the beginning of the episode, where after Emily and Gretchen have that big. big falling out. Gretchen comes back in and then they're fine. We didn't get to see that. We saw that a little bit later. Okay, fine. Not a big deal. The other part of it was that Tamara and Emily sat down at Heather's event. That was a huge one because that again adds more context to Emily trying to further it. The fact that she's sitting down with Tamara to heartfully

apologize and try to explain where she was coming from right before and then she finds out, oh, you're still meeting with Katie? Why would you meet with Katie? Her disposition changes immediately. She was ready to get ahead of it And she said to herself If I apologize to Tamara And she really takes me seriously Maybe she'll stop this vendetta And maybe she won't go meet with Katie

That's what it tells me And I'm sorry if we're reading too far into this We haven't had a whole lot of context To really break down over the last couple of weeks So this is something that we're really going to sink our teeth into You can't tell me that that wasn't a shit I got to break this glass in case of emergency Get that get in there

Make sure that she knows that I'm really sorry about that comment maybe she won't meet with katie oh fuck you're still meeting with katie what the hell i'm gonna flip it immediately yeah so it you can't tell me that that's not what that was that just added more to this we know that there's something here the episode ends jen and gretchen are talking about this meeting and i guess at the center of it it gets back to gretchen it's something about slade she's like oh it's always something about yeah dude yes correct he puts himself in the center of these things because he's He's a camera hungry little bitch boy.

Mm-hmm. And Gretchen's big idea is to take Slade the problem child and take him over to Tamara to try to squash this beef, which of course that's not going to work. And the minute that they start to approach Tamara, she leaves, which I actually respected that move. I'm like, yeah, there's no point. You don't give Slade the time of day. He's going to sit there and try to wait. And the way he talks on camera is so fucking fake. You can see right through it.

He acts like he is the big victim in this. whole thing he's been the victim of housewives for a decade now so i respect the move of walking away and then gretchen i think the mask slips finally like fully slips because she's like run bitch run run run for your life it's like what are you doing what do you mean like that's not helping your case it then it doesn't make any sense because that's the reaction of somebody who thinks that they have an adversary in the corner where i've got you now you're running away from me you won't even approach me i finally got you back you haven't done anything to Tamara. You haven't damaged her at all. You've gotten to a point now where you're worried that

she's going to dig something up on you and reuse it back at you. And then you're going to be in a shit spot and you're bringing your husband over to go talk to Tamara. You're not bringing your husband over to go talk to Tamara and Eddie. You're taking your weird husband over to confront Tamara. Everybody in that party told her that she should just go by herself. Nope. Do not bring Slade. Don't bring Slade. Even the people who are on her side who were trying to help are telling you not to bring Slade and yet you still do it which obviously shows us everything that you guys are about and of course Tamer's going to walk away and again that's the right move that's absolutely the right move because if you're Tamer you're not going to gain anything from that

and also if you're Tamer you don't want to deal with that so I don't blame her at all and I think that was the best move and the confessional of Gretchen acting like Slate's not the problem productions like you know he likes to get involved she's like no he doesn't they talk about it's like what are you talking about no you're she tries to say that because other people talk about him then he gets involved let's roll the tape okay you called him and then he offered up a lot of information to you about this camera and jeff timmons thing willingly not just willingly i'm sure he had a big shit eaten grin on his face while he was doing it and then we watch one-on-one scenes with you guys getting ready for something or just talking and he's sitting there

and he's trying to devise plans he's telling you what you should do we go back roll the tape 10 years ago when he's on the reunion talking about how he's a house husband and that he's on the show and Andy had to check him and say no you're not dude your wife is he thinks that he's part of the show he tries to wheel and deal behind the scenes he wants

to be involved there's no disputing this and this takes even more credibility away from Gretchen she has none now she's really got none you can at least acknowledge what we're seeing that's my favorite part we talk about this all the time there's cameras there's microphones there's videos of him in the past we know what's

going on, acknowledge it because the other part of this, Gretchen, he got you fired once. Do you think you're coming back after this season? I mean, because the show sucks so much, you probably are, but you didn't do anything this year at all. Slade did more than you, and we don't want that. We don't want to see your husband contributing to the show for multiple reasons. One, shows are never good when husbands are helping drive a storyline, and two, he's a fucking loser.

We don't want to see him. I don't want to hear him talk. Let's, and let's just talk about the state of OC if Gretchen goes. That means you have two seasons in a row where you brought back an old OC housewife thinking it was going to work, stir the pot and create good TV. Two seasons in a row, it didn't. What are you going to do? You're going to have to make a big change.

Or are you finally just going to bring Vicky back as a full-time cast member and see what you have there? I think that's the only move left. Get rid of Gretchen again. Get rid of, you already got rid of Alexis. and just bring Vicky back and see what you have there. And if there's nothing there, then the show's really fucked. But I think that's got to be your only move because two years in a row of bringing back old housewives and it falling so flat, flatter than we even imagined it could ever fall.

What are you supposed to do? I don't know. We were excited about Gretchen coming back too. How dumb are we? And the funniest part to end this before we get to questions, Emily getting mad at Gretchen about bringing Slate over. So you're going to bring your ripped six foot tall. husband who the hell are you talking about yeah that was wild that guy maybe one of the cowboys on stage not that guy not that sloppy fuck that just walked in in a black t-shirt pretending to be a

quote cowboy get out of here yeah let's get to some questions here we go from armab one two four steal if you took lew to the dog psychic what do you think she would say Lou is a boy No what would the psychics say What would the psychic say yeah Oh man Lou is such an interesting fella Shooter can attest to it

He really is like a human being in a dog costume Who Lou would probably say I always think he has like a very royal British voice He talks like this because when he was younger He sat very proper so he'd probably say Oh I want to

more paper towels because he loves paper towels and I don't know where he finds them. I believe they blow into the backyard and then I have to pick up poop that is strung together by paper towels that do not digest in the system. So probably something like that. Yeah, that sounds about right. From Jay Bay the Hutt 713. This is still going? Question mark. Don't tell me about it. Yeah, you're probably not watching. You're just listening to us. Yep. Thank you. Seriously, thank you. But it is taxing. Yeah. From car millionaire,

if you had to pick aside, which side are you on Tamara or Gretchen? Nasty question, I know. Tamara, that's not hard. Tamara, easily. Yeah, Gretchen's brutal.

That's the one thing about like, we don't like Tamara as a person. We think she's a bad person, but she is like a top tier housewife. Yeah, we'll jump on board with good housewifery always. It's more so if you're not bringing shit to, we can hate you.

And if you bring something to the show, we're cool. Tamra's trying. Gretchen, she's so lost in the own mess that she created that it's making for terrible TV when she's on. And she thinks she's killing it, which makes it even worse.

Yeah, that is actually the worst part. From Byra isn't back, where we actually robbed of Katie and what was her storyline going to be? Yes, we were definitely robbed of Katie. I could not tell you what her storyline was going to be because both seasons, they never gave her a chance,

never gave her a chance to do anything. No, it's been the weirdest two-year-long pile-up that we've ever seen. I hate it. I think that it looks really fucking bad for a lot of reasons. And I think, again, I'm going to go back to production on this one, and Bravo as a whole, why you allowed this cast to dictate who is allowed on your show and who not is insane to me. And it's something that I will keep bringing up even when this show is over. I will never understand allowing Gina and Emily and maybe one of,

their housewife to say no she can't be on the show i'm not filming then say fine you guys are not doing anything for the show anyway you take a back seat and let's see what we have you brought a housewife on for two years and didn't even give her the space to have a storyline because she was bullied by the rest of the cast that's fucking stupid uh from coia baby house husband with the greatest redemption and why is it Shane not sold on ryan if we're just talking about this show i think ryan's probably the best. He learns not be an asshole on camera, stop talking about sex all the time, and seems like him and Jen are actually in love, and Jen's family loves him. Shane, she was never bad. He didn't need a redemption. He was just, he was irrelevant. Yeah, he's

irrelevant. There's not a whole lot there. The situation that we see them in now and the storyline that they're going with with their kids, I haven't had any issues with the way that Shane's handled it fairly well. Yeah. I don't know if it's a redemption. Ryan's a redemption. I don't think he needed a Redemption. Yeah. Ryan. This is funny. From Christine B.B.8, does Archie deserve his own show?

I think he'd do better in ratings. Yes, that dog is a star. Yeah, Archie rocks. Oh, this is really funny. From B-Man Graham 0727, do you think Gretchen came back to the show to get slated job? Maybe. Yes. Yeah.

Actually, now I do. Yeah. Yeah, probably. Because he probably gets a little something here and there when he makes an appearance. Or she gets, you know, he probably has 50% of her check or she. something yeah probably something like that or at the very least it gets his face out there for potential cameos even if they're jokes it's still a source of income for him he's such a loser let's see if we have one more back here oh this is an interesting point and we'll end on this

from zoie kudlopole maybe a hot take but i don't need katie back it's been better without her that's a very hot take that's a cold take that's a very very very very hot take um better is crazy better in OC in the same sentence is a tough one um it's been better for three weeks because they talked about actual stuff and it wasn't even yeah centric katy her absence from the show is not why it's better they just finally decided to do their job for a little bit and it's also piggybacking off of the question that we already just answered we don't know what we were going to get from katy last season or this season so i can't tell you definitively that it's better without her. I think maybe there is a way I could see it where if we continue down that

same path that we were on in the beginning of the season with Katie, yeah, it would be intolerable. We would actually probably stop watching if they continue to do it every single week just talking about her talking to bloggers. So I could see it from that perspective, but again, that's not like, good for you guys. This is a better show without Katie. It's not at all. It was their fault to begin with the rest of the cast is the problem for not allowing the blogger storyline to die as though they don't do the same shit we know they're all in contact with bloggers like that's nothing new even um uh Heather was on watch what happens live and one of the questions was who talks to more bloggers Katie or Tamara or I'm sorry it was Gretchen or Tamara and Heather just threw her arms up

she's like they all talk to bloggers so the housewives know that they're all talking to bloggers why does it matter yeah no this show's not better because Katie's all off the show sucks and a big problem that we have with the show was the ousting of katy for no real reason that was an embarrassing facade that we were forced to talk about for a long time correct the show actually sucked because they couldn't get off of that topic like that's that's why this season dive bombed almost instantly the first episode we saw me we heard blogger and both of us went fuck yeah that's what we're doing this year so yeah i don't think that it's better because of I think, again, the best way to put it is we don't know, because she has not been allowed to do anything. It's embarrassing for the rest of the cast and this production crew. Absolutely. Oh, boy. Yeah, this show takes out of me, man.

We had a three-week stretch. I was like, okay. And then this week, I feel back to where we were. I know you said it was neutral, but after talking about it, this wasn't neutral. This show stinks. No, no, I think because it's now opening our eyes to. what the show could have done differently again and we're going back to where we were

like two months ago. So yeah. Sometimes that happens. Sometimes it be like that. Sometimes it be like that. But that's all I got. You got anything else? Nope.

That's our show, bro. Who's got to go? October is Halloween month, which yes, is a thing. And on the Vulgar History podcast, it's also Mary Shelley's season. Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein the book when she was a teen mom on the run

with her boyfriend, her sister and her sister's boyfriend. She got the idea to write Frankenstein when her sister's boyfriend, Lord Byron, dared them all to write a ghost story one night, and now it's one of the most famous books of all time. It turns out that this story of grief and parenthood has deep personal connections for Mary Shelley.

She learned how to write as a child by tracing the letters on her dead mother's grave, and her got more scary from there. People around her seem to keep dying, leaving Mary Shelley ultimately the last girl, the only survivor of that famous overnight party, where she had written Frankenstein. We're taking a deep month into Mary Shelley's life and world

on vulgar history this month to figure out, was Mary Shelley the ultimate goth icon? Listen to vulgar history wherever you get podcasts. From the darkest corners of our imagination comes a game show that's more ridiculous than terrifying. Welcome to Tickled to Death, the horror comedy game show where nothing is sacred everything's a little unhinged,

and the only thing more cursed than the questions are the jokes. I'm Roz Hernandez, your fearless host, and each week I'll be leading a brave group of guests through twisted horror trivia, improv games, and enough sarcastic banter to make you question all your life's choices. So come for the screams, stay for the snark.

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