Bros & Shows - The Beginning of the End of Carl and Lindsay (Summer House Full Recap)

Episode Date: May 8, 2024

What's Up Bros? We are back with Summer House and things are starting to take a turn. We've known it was coming but we are starting to see the end of Carl and Lindsay's relationship. Carl comes back from his parents and does not share all of the details of Lou and Sharon's comments with Lindsay... We check in with Paige and Craig and it seems like its getting closer to a point where they may have to make some tough decisions. Will they make it all the way? West opens up about still texting with other women despite his situationship with Ciara. But is he in the wrong there or is It fair game because they're not exclusive. The episode ends with a very tough conversation between Lindsay and Carl where Carl comes clean about the convo with his parents. There's a lot of layers to this relationship and a lot of differing opinions. Whose side are you on??? Join BravBros Members: https://thebros.memberful.com/join Time Stamps: Intro (0-1:25) Introducing BravBros Members! (1:25-4:30) Summer House (4:30) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Square. You're not just running a restaurant, you're building something big. And Square's there for all of it. Giving your customers more ways to order, whether that's in-person with Square kiosk or online. Instant access to your sales, plus the funding you need to go even bigger. And real-time insights so you know what's working, what's not, and what's next. Because when you're doing big things, your tools should to. Visit square.ca to get started.

During the Volvo Fall Experience event, discover exceptional offers and thoughtful design that leaves plenty of room for autumn adventures. And see for yourself how Volvo's legendary safety brings peace of mind to every crisp morning commute. This September, Lisa 2026 X-E-90 plug-in hybrid from $599 bi-weekly at 3.99% during the Volvo Fall Experience event.

Condition supply, visit your local Volvo retailer or go to explorevolvo.com. As there's a drive in a deep left field by Castellanos, it will be... Oh, man, it's 8 o'clock. And so that'll make it a... I don't need the spotlight. I shine just fine. Hi, I'm Karma.

And yes, I am a bitch. Brov Bros. Good afternoon, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of Brav Bros. Your favorite podcast from The Bros. For everybody, for whoever wants to listen, I am your co-host, Steele Russell, joined as always by the one and only scutin, shooting, rootin-tootin. Magutin. You used that one before, surprisingly.

I kind of fumbled your way through it, but you definitely used it before. I think I used most of it. Rootin-tootin-tootin, scoot, shooting, maguton. That's too much. You got to cut it off at some point. Well, it's been, we have a lot of episodes this week. I know. Look, this is where I need our listeners to chime in again.

I need some new Magooter name. So it's on you guys. Help me out. Give me some fresh ideas for the old Magoutes over here. Yeah, we'll take anything that we can get, especially this week with as much as we have to cover. Thanks a lot, Bravo. Well, it's not all Bravo.

It's live show as well. I got the second episode out today, too. So if you want to listen to the full live show in all of its entirety, you can do so. It is now available in the feed. So go ahead and do that. Another order of business real quick. We are introducing.

Brof Bros. Members. And what does that mean? I'll tell you what it doesn't mean. It does not mean that our episodes are going behind a paywall. Don't worry. We are keeping our normal episodes free and available to everybody. We will not do that to you. We don't believe in that. However, Brov Bros. Members is. It's a way to support us directly as we continue to grow this thing. And we want to devote more time to this. We want to make this our full-time job. Ideally, we're getting closer, but we're not quite there yet. What this will allow us to do is spend more time on creating content for you baby birds that's what it's all about at the end of the day it is a five dollar a month or fifty dollars for the entire year so it's not a huge commitment financially but what that five dollars a month says is hey bros good job we love what you're doing and we want some more of it and here's what we're going to give you up first we're going to give you emails so what that means is we're going to send you exclusive content we're going to send you updates on guests that we're having on the show what shows we're going on if we have a live show coming up, you will have early access to get VIP tickets. It will also include a member

chat. Once a month, we will do a Zoom, like a community Zoom, where you can jump on with Shooter and I, and we can talk about anything. We can talk about shows that are currently on. If you have questions, comments, concerns, complaints even, do you want to get mad at us? It's your right to do so you paid $5. You can now yell at us on a Zoom. That could be fun. It's also offering number three exclusive episodes. So this is something that we've been talking about for a while. We want to kind of branch out from bravo and we both love movies and we're both rom-com fans so we think that when we hit 250 members on brav bros members we're going to introduce a rom-com like a brav bro's guide to rom-coms so we're super excited about that premise and we're also number four is we're open to

your ideas this will give you a chance to say what you want from us what you want to hear from us different content ideas different shows whatever you want this is your opportunity to give your two-s on what we're going to do with the future of this show. So, again, it's Bravo's members. The link is in our bio to sign up. It is $5 a month or $50 for the year, whatever you can swing. But again, what that says to us is we love what you're doing. We want some more of it, and it gives us a little bit more freedom to do those things.

Yeah. And honestly, I think the best and coolest part about this entire experience will be hearing your input on what you want us to do. Yes. We're going to start off with rom-coms, of course. you want us to move over to an HBO show that you're crazy about? We'll do it. You want us to move over to your favorite movie?

If there's enough votes, we're going to do that too. Yep. We are at your disposal, and again, this is something that Steele and I really want to do. We do it all the time anyway. We have shows outside of Bravo. We've got movies that we go to all the time. We now get to talk about those movies with you guys, which could not be any cooler. Yeah, we're really excited about all of these potential ideas,

and we really want to hear your feedback. So go ahead, click that link in the bio, sign up for Bravo. Bro's member so that we can all get a little bit closer. Yep. Yeah, buddy. Anyways, other than that, I don't have a lot of news to break because Boston, June 14th, Friday night in Boston, we have seven tickets left as of two days ago. They could be gone by now. It could be gone right now.

We don't get enough updates on those things. But usually once it dips below about like 20, 25, we're like, all right, it'll probably sell out. Seven left could be already gone. Yes. Only you can find out. Yeah. I mean, we could probably find out if we wanted to pull it up. No, no, because you can't even do that.

You can't pull it up. And whoever we're in contact with at the venue, they're not very quick to respond. Well, what if we were to go on the website and try to buy tickets? I think we could probably figure it out there. Yeah, but then we might accidentally buy the last. Well, I'm not going to buy anything. I'm just saying we could look. I'll take a look.

Are we going to do that right now? A real update. Let's see if we can do this. Try to check out with seven. See what happens. Oh, it's like that? I don't know if that's going to work. Nope, looks like we still have seven left.

All right. Can't go any higher than seven. There's still seven available. They will not last very long, so make sure you get those tickets ASAP you're planning on coming to the show so you don't miss out. But other than that,

why don't we jump right into this? Because, like I said, we got a lot of episodes this week. So we've got the preambles. Yeah, let's get a little summerhouse action here. Let's get a little summer housey. And this is, you know, where we're going to start seeing

the downfall of the relationship of Lindsay and Carl. And you see a lot of, this is kind of a relationship-centric show at the moment. Yeah. There's a lot of focus being placed throughout the house. You got Kyle and Amanda. You got West and Sierra. You've got Lindsay and Carl. And you also have Craig and Page are also making an appearance in this one.

So let's jump right in. We start out with Craig and Page. And normally we would gloss over this because it's the same conversation that we continue to have. Correct. In this instance, what we are starting to get from Craig between these last two conversations. And details, one, and two, you're potentially seeing an end date to this whole thing. And it's becoming more and more apparent. The difference is you're getting more from Craig.

You're getting the exact same from Page. Yeah, you would think that getting more out of Craig would maybe spark up a bit more conversation on Page's end. And I think you could argue that it is, but it's minimal. It is. And it's really just her reacting to the things that he's saying and then asking him more questions. And she does a quick little confessional talking about how it's hard for her to open up about emotions, and that's okay. You know, everybody's going to go at their different pace. Kind of the trope that we've been doing the entire time with this relationship and expectations for their engagement, for marriage, for kids, all the things that we want to find out, of course, as soon as possible.

But we are getting a lot more from Craig. And Craig even gives us the end date of, I'd like to have my first kid by 40. Now he's 35, so that's, you know, five years. Not a lot of time in there. my frustration boils down to, and look, maybe I don't really understand how this works from, you know, the women's perspective, but getting engaged, I would imagine at least it just checks it off, you know, like this just shows this is who I want to be with. We can plan the wedding at our own pace. We can plan when we're going to have kids, where we're going to move, where we're going to live, all those types of things after the engagement. I think that would go a long way if she would just give Craig the nod and say, yeah, we can get engaged.

I agree with that. I think that that's similar to the if he chipped in on an apartment in New York. It's not saying that's a little different. I'm not saying like, yeah, obviously it's a little bit different. My point being that what it represents is he's looking for a further commitment in some way, shape, or form. That's not just, I'm going to be with you forever, Craig. Yeah. It's like, yeah, you can keep saying that and it's nice to hear.

But I do like that Craig breaks it down from like an emotional standpoint in which if we hit 40, and I don't have a child that's going to lead to resentment. And the last thing I want to do is resent you or for this to go negatively. And I think that what gets frustrating is in Page's confessional, she is well within her right to not know what she wants to do. She's well within her right to not know the next steps in her life. She's trying to figure it out.

That's fair. I get that. Go at your own pace. Like you said, life's tough. But at the same time, Craig has a timeline. It's a rough timeline that he has already pushed for you. And you're not giving him any more on the top. And that's a little bit frustrating to watch, especially when you go to the confessional.

She's like, I'm just going to keep putting Band-Aids on it. She's aware of what she's doing. And that's what's frustrating because Craig's opening up more. She's the same spot that they were in two years ago. Right. And the fact that we're getting more out of the confessionals than we are in a conversation between her and Craig. And look, we've done this enough.

We've seen this conversation enough times. And I know that we've said a million different ways. Well, we don't know what they're talking about off camera. It's starting to get to the point where I'm starting to think that the only time they actually have this conversation is on camera. And I think it's really frustrating for Craig because he wants more and he wants to do this. And maybe that's the same thing with Paige. Maybe the reason why she doesn't want to get engaged is because all of a sudden it accelerates the timeline. And then she has less time to think about these

things. And she's not sure what she wants to do. She's not sure of her own timeline. And I think she's saying enough of that to Craig. And I think maybe the two of them, obviously, they have enough of a rapport that he probably understands that. But he's getting to the point now through conversations with Page, through conversations with Kyle, whoever, that he's at least putting it out there saying, I'm going to be feeling a little bit of resentment towards you if we don't accelerate to the time that makes sense for me. And I don't think he's asking for a whole lot. That's a five-year plan. Yeah, it's not ridiculous. And at the same time, he's being very open about the fact that he's insecure in this relationship. He thinks that you don't like him half the

time. And look, people's love languages are different. She's not going to be the lovey-dovey. I'm going to walk you through this thing and make you feel warm and fuzzy all the time, which is okay. you don't have to be but some that's that's what all of these things represent the apartment a potential engagement just some kind of step forward for somebody that you know Craig's not asking you to be lovey-dovey and all those things he's just asking for reassurance and i think that's fair unless you can't give it to him that's fine but maybe it's time like for me we're getting to a point now where it's like something's got to give one way or the other whether page gives a step and starts to move forward in the relationship,

or if Craig has to be like, look, it's not working, I don't know. And it pains me to say it because I love these two. They're great together. It's just, can they take that next step? And I don't know. I don't know if it's going to happen. We don't know. I don't know.

But we move on from there, and Carl gets back from his parents, and he's talking with Lindsay, and this is his first misstep. And there's a few this episode. But his first misstep is as they're discussing this topic. And look, we're going to discuss. at nauseam the relationship between these two during this episode and there's a lot of nuances there's a lot of people on both sides of the street here people want to burn carl at the stake people hate lindsay back and forth we're going to try to go right down the middle and see

both sides of this thing without treading too lightly because i think there's a lot of info that we can discuss here so when he goes in there and she asks oh like how it was and he's like oh you know they were uh just making sure that we're on track and like headed uh headed on the right track and all these different things immediately you can tell lindsay's like what the fuck something's going on this is weird yeah i love that the two of us could also sit here and we could just kind of like talk and talk and talk and just say different things and it's probably better than what carl said yes like we could just make things up and stammer the entire time and it's still better than what carl did in this scene and i thought for obviously lindsay knows something's going on

and something's going through his head because he's not even looking at her he's looking up at the air just like trying to figure out his words and trying to formulate things. You did just drive back from New Jersey. You had a lot of time to think, not a lot of time, but you had some time to think about this. And you immediately just threw it all out the window and decided to go with this.

Well, yeah, they're just hoping that we're on track and they don't know, not that they don't know, but it's like, and that was, again, better than what Carl did. Yep. I actually give kudos to Lindsay in this moment for not jumping down his throat. I know.

Because if you're sitting there and you're engaged and you're about to get married in a few weeks in a month or whatever it is. And this is how your fiance is reacting to this from a conversation with his parents. I'm going to get frustrated. I'm going to get aggravated. I'm probably going to want more from you.

And she didn't do any of that. She's letting him kind of get it all out if you want to call all of it out. I think she's trying to see if he can formulate a little thought. And like, she's clearly, I think, not pressing him. She's just kind of giving him the floor to be like, can you use this shit?

Can you formulate an actual idea or a thought here? think when you look at both sides of it and that's what we're trying to do with this I get the fact that he's very nervous to have these conversations and if you can watch the second conversation they have and not think that Carl's a little scared of Lindsay he was physically shaking during that scene so there is something to be said about that that is not an excuse to not be able to relay your thoughts and feelings a little bit more astutely because this is the person you're supposed to marry. If you cannot, that's when it's a big red flag and you should have the conversation sooner of, is this the right move? I think that he has seen the writing on the wall

for a while. I think he's terrified to take the step and that's what you're getting in this scene. It's not okay. Like you needed to be able to discuss this much better than he did. And that's where he fucked up. And that's where you can point the finger at him this episode and be like, nah, dude, you're the problem here, which is unfortunate because I also feel like there's a lot of recency bias because, yes, Lindsay has had a great few weeks. She's been very calm. She has had good conversations with people. She actually seems like she's in a better mental place. She seems excited for the wedding. You're seeing a lot of things that it would have been nice to see in the beginning of the summer, but they were at odds. So I think that the timing of this is very interesting,

right? And it's obviously causing a lot of discussions on social media and all of that. We can flat out just say, Carl handled this like shit. This was not. not good. Yeah, for sure. He should have done better, especially because whether he's afraid of her or not, like, it is your fiancé, you should have pushed in this moment, not waited until later. Yeah, and the only reason, and we can talk about it a little bit later, the only reason that he even pushed later was because he talked to someone else and kind of got a little bit more perspective on it and then realized, oh, shit, I should do this now. But in this moment, I think it really just boils down to Carl in this relationship. I think

that he really thought that Lindsay was going to change. And all those fights that happens, like, it is Lindsay. Like, she's going to do those types of things. She's going to lash out. She's going to get drunk and lash out, especially, you know, during those nights. And I think Carl really thought that maybe at some point in time she was going to soften or become the type of person that he wanted to marry or whatever. And it's really getting down to it time-wise.

And he's frantically looking for an exit strategy here. Yeah, I think so. I don't think this was a, I'm afraid to tell you that my parents don't want us to get married. I'm afraid to tell you that I don't want to get married. I think it's both, but yes, I think that the one leads to the other. One definitely leads to the other, and he knows that. So he knows, you know, if I have this conversation with her, it's going to come down to, well, what do you think?

And he's not going to be able to tell her what his parents think. And I think that he's going to be able to tell her what he thinks. But the difference for me when I'm watching this, I'm not, I don't think that he's like setting up pieces to be like, oh, this is going to lead to the breakup. I think that he's just clumsily handling it and doing a very bad job. I don't know if this was foresight for him to be like, I'm going to make myself look good on the show.

No. A lot of people say he is. I think he did know for a while that he didn't want to get married to her. I do, too. Or at the very, very, very least, he wanted to postpone it. I think that it's tough to say. Until they're in a quote unquote better spot. Yeah.

And, you know, to what you said, I said this at our live show, the whole idea of when you get engaged to somebody and there's certain things about them that you assume at some point will maybe alter, shift, or change. I don't think there's anything wrong with that and it frustrates me when people say well you knew who you were getting married to that holds true to a certain extent absolutely

right because people are who they are they're only going to change however much they're going to change so that I get at the same time you do expect people to grow in a relationship it's all about compromise right if somebody if you do something that your partner just does not care for

then if they truly mean something to you you make efforts to better that thing about yourself if it actually is a flaw of yours, right? So I don't think it's always fair to do that when people are like, oh, well, you knew you're getting married to Lindsay. And you can do this across most Bravo shows with, like, weird relationships. It's like, you knew what you're getting into.

And it's like, yes, to a certain extent, I agree. 100%. But you are also under the idea of at some point, hopefully this person will grow in some way, shape, or form. So bottom line, this scene, not great. Carl should have done way better. And we can all agree on that. But we get to the bridal shower.

this scene's tough honestly yeah uh and i felt bad for lindsay because she's genuinely excited she's got her girls there her her stepmom is there Sharon shows up like it she is genuinely excited because she doesn't know in this moment that things are about to go bad so i did feel bad for her in this scene and she's talking to her stepmom and i guess her mom actually bailed when she was like two years old and her stepmom helped raise her which isn't or actually just raised her which is incredible and it's a really touching scene but you see sharon kind of like on the outskirts i'm not really sure what her goal was here no she's like kind of trying to like slide in but then she slides in then it gets awkward and she's like no this is mom daughter time like i don't want to be involved in this

and it's a very strange scene and i think that the underlying thing here is Sharon's very concerned and she doesn't know how to broach the topic at the same time i do think they have love for lindsay whether it's like a daughter-in-law love or you've been there for Carl for seven years, plus that kind of love, but it's very uncomfortable. I think that's what it is. I think at this point in time, maybe, you know, obviously we heard harsher remarks from Carl's stepdad than we did from his mom. But his mom didn't exactly chime in and say that she felt otherwise. She was just letting his stepdad talk through everything. And in this moment, obviously, look, I mean, she's the future mother-in-law for the bridal shower.

or she's showing up by herself. I think that she knows. Carl probably said something. She's a little nervous. Lindsay's a little nervous, so she's talking to her stepmom. Not really, you know,

you didn't get that warm welcome when Sharon shows up. You didn't get that like, oh my God, you're here. Like, I'm so excited that you're here. Like, she knows something's going on.

Sharon knows something's going on. Kudos to Lindsay again for talking about it because... I was shocked that she brought it up. I was shocked that she brought it up. But at the same time, I'm a little happy that she did, not just from a TV standpoint, but because of a,

like peace of mind type of thing where if you let that fester the way that Carl handled that situation when he got back from Jersey, you're going to start to have resentment towards your potential mother and father-in-law. Yeah. Because you don't know what they said because Carl's not telling you what they said. Right. And now you're going to be awkward around them and the whole thing boils down to a completely different situation.

So I'm happy that she got it out of the way. You can tell in that moment that Sharon obviously has love for Lindsay and I think it's what you said where not necessarily as a daughter-in-law but more as a father-in-law, but more as a friend. Thank you for being there for Carl through everything. You've been friends of them for so long. I have love for you individually. I have love for Carl individually. Just not together. That's what I got from the way that she was handling it because at the end of it, obviously, Lindsay breaks down a little bit and says, you know, I don't want there to be some sort of unknown about us. I don't want you to have these feelings about me right before the wedding because I love

your son and I love you. And that's when Sharon breaks down and gives her a hug. That wasn't a, oh, no, no, no, no, like everything's fine. You know, we just want to make sure everything's good with Carl Hug, that was a, I feel bad for you, hug. That was, I want the best for both of you. Yes, exactly. And it's such a nuanced thing, and that's also why I think it's interesting that everybody online has, like, such a firm stance and opinion on this whole thing, because unless you're in this, involved in it, behind closed doors, not watching the little snippets that we get

on TV and then you get hearsay on social media and blah, blah, blah, blah, we were not in the rad house, you know what I'm saying? Like, we don't know what these conversations they did or did. not have did they talk about this more we don't know is there more here we don't know yeah i mean we just have this like ominous feeling of whatever the hell happened over memorial day weekends something bad that was well before and that's the other thing that was kind of missed a little bit here was lindsay bringing up oh yeah you know we fought in the beginning of the summer we get the flashback to five weeks ago when she was accusing him potentially being on drugs or not being sober or whatever

that's not what charon was talking about this other huge fight that happens that caused carl to go to Pittsburgh is what she's referencing and that I don't know if Lindsay even knows that and I feel like again at the end of the day the main thing here is they're not supposed to be together they don't work together and they're both doing shitty things to each other and to the relationship to get out of it yeah and maybe Lindsay's not doing it to get out of it but she was doing shitty things in the beginning of the summer he's doing shitty things you know now whether he's putting pieces out there or just trying to find his way to score him out they're both doing things that are not conducive to a good relationship That's the bottom line. There's no real firm stance to take. Carl's doing things to Lindsay. Lindsay's doing things to Carl. At the end of the day, we all need to meet in the middle and say, thank God they're not together. That's it, right?

And I think that that was the quickest thing to get lost in the past week online, especially, is people like, oh, Carl said this. And he's talking to his parents and this and that behind her back. It's like, did we forget that she was talking to everybody else in the house about their sex life, throwing him under the bus there? she was also telling him that or accusing him of falling off the wagon, like, she's not clean here. Just because she's had a good few weeks, like I said, recency bias and the timing of it's unfortunate for Carl's sake, but at the same time, he mishandled the situation immensely. So like you said, the bottom line, and we should all be able to come together on this one,

these two didn't need to be together. And thank God they're not. Was it messy? I don't foresee the Bravo community coming together in the middle. Oh, God, no. It's Jersey season. There's never a bigger rift in Bravo than Jersey starts. Yeah, and I just feel like the way things are going, what Carl's doing.

Look, even if Lindsay lashes out at the end of this conversation when we start the next episode up, she's fair to do so. I mean, he did not tell her right away, and he's only telling her now because of the cameras. If she lashes out, okay, fine, but if it keeps going the way that it's going at the end of this, people are going to feel worse for Lindsay than they do for Carl. Yeah. Just because of what you said, the recency bias. Yeah.

We need to take everything under consideration. The whole season. The whole relationship going back to last year. Everything needs to go under complete understanding of what actually happened. Yes. And at the end of the day, they both did things to each other. You can say why one person did something or why Lindsay did this or why Carl did this. It doesn't really matter.

It doesn't. They were both doing things the entire time and it just didn't work out. They are not meant for each other. Period. But Carl arrives and this is like, again, he doesn't do himself. favors because in his confessional his sentiment is very nice he's like you know i had to go home and take like a long look in the mirror and say to myself i have to commit one way or the other either i'm out or i'm all in and in my head i'm like actually yeah that's genuine like you do need to

shit or get off the pot one way or the other if you're going to get married to her it's time to buckle down and make it known like this is my wife i'm going to figure this out hopefully i'm glad that wasn't the option because this wouldn't have worked out right or commit the other way and say, all right, this is it. You can't keep waiting because now you've had the bridal shower. You're getting closer. It's time to shit or get off the pot. So that, that confessional didn't help him out because then later you have this conversation. It's like, oof. Yeah. And here's a good way to discourse it. Do you think that Carl wasn't open to Lindsay because he's afraid of Lindsay or because he's afraid of ending their relationship or truly saying what he actually

feels? I think it's both, honestly. I do think that he, I know, I think that. I'm kidding. Because I think he is a scared. A scared. I do think he's afraid of her. I really do. And I think that comes off in the second scene. I don't think you can deny that. He might be more afraid of the situation than Lindsay herself.

I think it's overall. But I think that he's nervous to set her off. And when she goes off, she's a very different Lindsay. I appreciate the Lindsay that we've gotten in the past couple of episodes where shit has popped off where they've had tough conversations. And she's state level-headed. She's articulate when she's level-headed. It's when she goes off the rail. she gets kind of scary.

So I think it's a combination of the two. Well, manipulation-wise, because that's the huge thing right now where people are saying that Carl's a manipulator. Lindsay, we've seen also be a manipulator. It's okay. I think that it's not a manipulative situation. I don't think it is either. Because of one thing.

If Carl's end game here was to show Lindsay's true nature and say, that's not who I'm going to marry and the relationship's over, Lindsay's a monster, I'm Carl, I'm okay, everything's fine. he would have just told her flat out what his parents said and then let her go off the rails. Yeah. So, like, if that's what your end game goal is,

if that's really what you want to do and you're manipulating the situation and your pieces are all set now where you've talked to everybody else, and now you've finally talked to your parents, you can let that bomb out there and let Lindsay blow up. Yeah.

And then say, look, if this is how you're going to react to me saying, I don't really know what I want to do, I'm trying to figure out which way I want to go with this and my parents are telling me one thing. I'm feeling the other way. Can you help me through the, this and she blows up on that, then you can point at her and be like, you're not here

for me, you don't have my back. I'm struggling right now with my emotions and you're not helping me. Then you can say, Lindsay's not the person for me and everybody's like, okay, Carl, you tried. The way that he's doing it now is just bumbling around. It's like he really doesn't know what he wants. And that's why I don't think it's intentionally manipulative. I think what happened is... I think he's fucking around right now by doing this, but I don't think he's intentionally

me. No, I don't think he's manipulating the situation. I think what happened is they were both under the idea that... that they will figure this out throughout the summer. And by the time they get to the wedding, things will be cool, they'll be able to get married happily. I think what's happening now is,

oh, shit, we're like two months away. It's really starting to speed up. We're at the bridal shower right now, and we haven't solved anything. And I think that now it's like a panic mode where it's like, oh, fuck, this is going to be the rest of my life,

and we are not viving at all. And now he's trying to scramble to figure it out. And by doing that at the last minute, shit speeds up. It looks a certain way. You're on a reality TV show. People are going to point fingers a certain direction. I think it's sped up and I think it's panic mode.

He hit the panic throttle and now shit's falling apart. That's what I think. I don't think this is intentionally manipulative. That's just not the vibe I get. Makes sense to me. But we got to check in with West and Jesse. Jesse's getting his cancer update, a five-year check. And after the five-year check, if he's still free and clear, it's very unlikely the cancer will come back.

So he's got his blood work coming up, an x-ray, a physical, all that stuff. So fingers crossed that everything comes back good. We haven't heard anything to the contrary. We haven't heard positive. We did see a scene where he was scared because something may have come back. Oh, really? But yeah, you didn't remember that from the mid-season trailer? It's him and West sitting on a bed and he's kind of breaking down.

So I'm hoping that it's more just that he's scared of the results. Yeah, me too. And less that he heard something. Me too. I love Jesse. I know. Jesse's great. And again, this is one of those things that he's sharing with us in the world.

It's really cool. Saying what he's going through and it's very scary stuff. So we wish the best for him overall. And I hope that that mid-season trailer with that scene with him and West isn't that he got bad news. Me too. I really don't want to hear that. I can't imagine going through that.

Yeah. But like you said, big, big credit for him for sharing this whole journey with us. Goodbye. Summer movies, Hello, Fall. I'm Anthony Devaney. And I'm his twin brother, James. We host Raiders of the Lost Podcast, the Ultimate Movie Podcast, and we are ecstatic to break down late summer and early fall.

releases. We have Leonardo DiCaprio leading a revolution in one battle after another, Timothy Salome playing power ping pong in Marty Supreme. Let's not forget Emma Stone and Jorgos Lantamos' Bougonia. Dwayne Johnson's coming for that Oscar in The Smashing Machine, Spike Lee and Denzel teaming up again, plus Daniel DeLuis's return from retirement. There will be plenty of blockbusters to chat about two. Tron Aries looks exceptional, plus Mortal Kombat too, and Edgar Wright's The Running Man starring Glenn Powell. Search for Raiders of the Lost podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. Hey, Michael. Hey, Tom.

So big news to share it, right? Yes, huge, monumental, earth shaking. Heartbeat, sound effect, big. Mait is back. That's right. After a brief snack nap. We're coming back. We're picking snacks.

We're eating snacks. We're raiding snacks. Like the snackologist we were born to be. Mates is back. Mike and Tom, eat snacks. Wherever you get your podcast. Unless you get them from a snack machine, in which case, call us. I'm Amy Nicholson, the film critic for the LA Times.

And I'm Paul Shear, an actor, writer, and director. You might know me from The League, Veep, or my non-eligible for Academy Award role in Twisters. We come together to host Unspool, a podcast where we talk about good movies, critical hits. Fan favorites, must-season, and case you missed them. We're talking Parasite the Home Alone. From Greece to the Dark Night. So if you love movies like we do, come along on our cinematic adventure. Listen to unspooled wherever you get your podcast.

And don't forget to hit the follow button. We start talking about Sierra. And as we know, did we find out yet that he's texting other girls or is that later? Not yet. That's later. Oh, that's about to happen. Okay. So West asked Jesse a question and says, could you stop fucking every girl on a dime if the right one came along?

Jesse's like, absolutely, I thought he was going to say absolutely not. Yeah. He was absolutely 100% yes. And I was like, oh, good for you. In line with what Jesse's been saying all summer. Yes, it is. For his ideal situation. Yeah.

Hasn't happened yet, but yeah. But at least he's open up. Like, Jesse is not gross because Jesse's very honest about his intentions. If the right one comes along, I'll shut it down. He dates during the week and then he does his thing on the weekend. That's fine. But with West, that was surprising to hear because he's like, I don't know, man. I'm like, oh, what you've been up to, dude?

Because this is different than what I thought. Like, even when Jesse asks him a question, it implies that he's still banging other chicks. Yeah. Like, that's the implication I got. Yeah. I'm like, ooh, that's. Or at the very least talking to them in a more romantic way. And that leads, we'll just get directly into this next scene where they're all sitting outside.

And Lindsay asks him, are you guys exclusive? He's like, no, we're not. And, you know, I think that he says you get pigeonholed if you're not having sex, but we're exclusive. It doesn't make a lot of sense. Are you talking to other girls? He says, yes, the door's not open, but I'm not shutting anybody down. But when you put the two scenes together, I don't know, bro. I think that he's still getting freaky in the city a little bit.

Yeah, and I think the whole exclusivity thing, I just really think it comes down to the fact that him and Sierra haven't talked about exclusivity. Yeah. That's really all it is. And, yeah, in his mind, he's thinking, well, we're not having sex and we're not having that discussion. So, yeah, we're not exclusive. But I think at the end of the day, if Sierra and him had sat down and talked about it and she said, look, I'd really like it if we were exclusive and that's another stepping stone to building a relationship, I think he would stop talking to everybody else. I think he'd be into the exclusiveness of the whole situation. I think that they just haven't talked about that. And that goes back to something that we talked about a couple of weeks ago with these two.

They're both afraid to bring it up. Yes, they are. West is afraid that he's going to push Sierra away by having that discussion. Sierra is afraid that if she lets him in and he starts having sex or whatever. going on and they have that discussion that she's not going to be into it anymore. Like there's just a lot of uncertainty going on where they're both comfortable with what it is. But now we're getting to the point where the rest of the house is like, what the fuck's going on here?

Yeah. And I think that's why it's not ridiculous that he's still talking to other girls. I didn't, when I heard that I was like, what the fuck? I mean, if you're not going to have the discussion about exclusivity, then sure. Yeah. You can't really get mad about it. Here's the thing. Because Sierra is so afraid to look stupid again because Austin put her through, when

this comes to light, I don't think she's going to take it very well. No, I don't think she is either. I just hope that they can have that sort of post-game conversation where they're both real with each other, a little post-game interview, where they're both real with each other about their emotions and whether or not they want to do it. Because I don't, look, we don't know if West is necessarily going out on dates with people. This could just be him flirting with other people and talking to other people or whatever he might be doing. But if they can sit down and say, yeah, we never had the discussion, we're not really sure where this is going. We're just comfortable with what it is. Yeah, I mean, you can

have some emotions about that. And Sierra can look at that and say, well, you know, I kind of thought that it was an unwritten rule here that we were talking all the time and it was fine. I would understand that. You can't make assumptions about where you stand with somebody. Exactly. You can't make assumptions with where you stand with somebody. You can't say how you would feel if somebody was talking to someone else until you actually have that discussion. Agreed. And they're refusing to have that discussion. I think that this is a good thing. I think this is going to force that conversation. I think it could. Yeah, I think it really could.

It could also be a really bad thing because of what you just said. Yeah. Where Sierra is going to feel some type of way about that, which, again, she's in her right to do so. If she thought that it was one thing and it's a completely different thing, sure. You know what, move on. You can't assume that's my only thing. Like, you have to have the discussion. Yeah, I would agree.

I think you have to have the discussion, but they are not having the discussion. I think that that's why this is a good thing. I think this is going to force. This will be the caveat for change. Get the amount of purgatory. Yeah. At the very least, it'll define something. One way or the other, they're moving forward.

It may not be with each other. But we will find out. But we move on from there. And we get Paige Amanda and Lindsay and they're just talking about the West thing. And they're pretty much on the same page that we are. Like Amanda says, it makes sense. And Paige is like, yeah, you know. And Amanda highlights, like, Sierra's still really guarded with this whole thing.

And that's the biggest, I guess, speed bump in this whole relationship is she's so afraid to commit to it because of what Austin did to her, which is fair. and at the same time West is afraid to lose her so he's not saying anything so it's just like like I said two weeks ago two ships passing in the night and they are going to continue to do so until the song gets shaken out but but Lindsay brings up the Lou and Sharon conversation and the fact that Carl had mentioned some things to them that they had mentioned their concerns for this this they're nuptials if you will and she rightfully says I felt so hurt and felt rejected and I can't imagine anybody in that situation wouldn't feel the same way yeah if you find out your in-laws are questioning whether or not you get married

you're not going to have like an introspective moment and be like hmm why you're just going like oh fuck they hate me so that that that sucks and I felt bad for her but this I don't agree with necessarily because she goes you know I don't talk to my biological mom about my relationship and this and that and it's like okay you may not but is it the right thing to involve your parents in a relationship probably not but at the same time if you need a support system and you're looking for somebody to talk to I wouldn't am anybody for being like hey mom hey dad I need to have a sit down because my life

is kind of crazy right now yeah that's who you go to you it's mom and dad at the end of the day it's mom and dad at the end of the day who's going to know you the best it's going to be your parents and that's okay if you don't have that sort of relationship with your parents that you're not going to talk to them about your personal relationships but in the state of their relationship right now and where

it has been with all these fights and all the things that are going on I don't condemn Carl for having that conversation with him we condemn him for the way that he handled the conversation with Lindsay thereafter yes but having a conversation with your parents about where you stand and what you want to do. No, that's who you're comfortable with. And it's a little different.

Actually, it's a lot different than what we talked about a couple of weeks ago where you're talking to your friends about something like a fight that you had with your girlfriend or boyfriend or boyfriend or fiancé or wife or whoever. You have a conversation with your friends and then all of a sudden they're understanding the worst of you. And it's really, it's just like an emotional thing that you kind of blew off. And then you forgive your partner. But your friends are like, what the fuck?

Yeah. You're right back with them. This is different. These are your parents. Your parents are going to do what's best for you always so you can have this sort of conversation and be open with them. And it's sort of a judgment-free zone because if Carl were to go back and we didn't see any of that in the conversation with his parents, if he were to just put his foot down in the middle of it and say, no, I'm going to marry Lindsay, then they would back off. They'd be like, that's what's best for you. You're going to go ahead and do that. We'll support you all the way.

Yeah. They're not going to tell you no. No. They're just going to give you because you're asking for their perspective and you're asking for their advice. they're going to give you that. Your friends are going to be a little different than that. Definitely. And I wonder what this episode looks like if when he gets back from that conversation with his parents

and just lays it on the table with Lindsay. Lays it on the table and says, look, my parents are in a weird situation. Lou said he wouldn't marry us. Yeah, like everything that you can imagine. But at the end of the day, I know that I want to marry you. I just need to work on my parents because those are my parents. If he did all of that, yeah, Lindsay is still going to feel some type of way because all of a sudden it's like, well, your parents hate me.

Yeah. And they don't want us to get married. but you're still getting that support from your partner saying I disagreed with everything they said because I know you best or we need to discuss this stuff because some things they brought it doesn't matter we don't know what we don't know where that conversation goes

because it didn't happen right Carl's an idiot I'm just curious what the landscape of the show and the response has been if he just had done that right you know but he's making things worse for himself in a dumb way yeah and we get a conversation with Carl and Kyle and I'm glad that Amanda who like kind of forced herself into it. She, like, walks in, she's like, I'm just looking for my, I'm just going to sit right here.

I'm just going to sit right down. I'm just going to look for my, no, I'm just going to sit right there. Kyle's reaction was, you good with this? Yeah, you good with this over here? All right. I guess she's joining the conversation. But had she not, I don't know if we would have gotten to the conversation with Lindsay and Carl, because Carl finally comes clean and starts telling both of them that there are certain

things that I didn't tell Lindsay. I want to protect her feelings. And this is where it's a rock and a hard place. This is, again, where I'm like, I don't think he's. trying to fuck up Lindsay or manipulate the situation. I think that he's looking at it. Like, if I tell her in that moment that my parents pretty much don't condone this marriage, that's going to wreck her.

And she got the bridal shower. We're in a better place than we've been. So I'm looking towards the future that there's actually like some potential for us to figure this out now. So I don't want to drop this bomb on her because things are good. And I don't want to go back to the beginning of the summer where I'm driving to Pittsburgh to stay with my parents because shit got so bad. So I do get that aspect of it. But again, what it comes down to is just when he starts saying the real shit, like what actually went down in the conversation.

And we get the fourth wall break, which we love. That was a great fourth wall break. It's one of the best ones ever because the tension in the room is palpable. Then you zoom out and like, Jesus Christ. And at this moment, there's two cameras and a producer standing there listening to you, pour your heart out about the most difficult conversation you're ever going to have in your life. Period. So, yeah, I think that it's really easy to point fingers at either.

of them during this whole process and be like she's wrong he's wrong she's wrong but if you look at the parameters of what they're trying to navigate while they're in a horrible relationship two people that should not be in a relationship there's going to be missteps on both sides and that's what we're seeing and this at the very least draws the conversation out and forces carl to actually do something because at the end of the day she's going to see this yeah and the thing that i don't agree with from this conversation that carl put out there is you know things are going really well right now. Right. So I don't want to do this. Right. Okay. Doesn't matter. What you, like, are you just going to wait and see? Like, you're getting married in a month. Yeah. You're just going to wait and

see if the next month goes well and then you're going to go through with it. Like, no, it sounds like the only possible situation here is he really has already kind of made up his mind. He's just not committing to it. And he doesn't know how to go about it. And he's afraid of the situation if he were to tell Lindsay that. Or he's afraid of Lindsay straight up. That's fine. I don't really think, again, like if his mind was fully made up and he wanted to paint Lindsay as a monster, he would be going about it differently. He wouldn't be like doing that type of thing

where he's just shaking and scared and not sure and bringing Kyle and Amanda and all this. And again, we have to have the reminder that Kyle and Amanda's entire relationship was put on showcase. All the things that Kyle did were he cheated on Amanda and then he had to go talk to her dad about it and ask for his hand, or her

hand rather, all of the types of things that we saw. He laughed at him. He laughed at him because Amanda's dad's awesome. But at the end of the day, they've gone through this. So he is talking to the right people, because I think that's really what he wants from this conversation is, I feel like I fucked up. I didn't get through with it. I don't know

how to do this. We've got these cameras here. You guys have done this. How do you handle it? The answer is, you don't really handle it. You just got to do it. You just got to do it. And it's going to come out no matter what, and it's going to get worse and worse if you're just not clean about it. So that's really what the resolution of that conversation is.

Go handle it now. Don't let it eat away at you. Don't let Lindsay, because Lindsay might be carrying like a strong face right now where she's... She knows something's up and she's doing her best right now by not lashing out of Carl. She could. In the beginning of the summer, she probably would have. But she's not right now because things are good with them right now. So I think it could even be like a Lindsay's feeling good right now because she's going through a bridal shower.

She's going through the support of her friends and talking to her stepmom and all those types of things and she's trying to get excited about the wedding and she's doing a better job than Carl is. And Carl is waiting to see how things play out. Yeah, which is just not a good situation. No, but again, that's why I keep harping on the fact. It's interesting to me when you look at how people are responding to this, whether they're on Carl or Lindsay's side, quote, unquote, to have such a firm stance either way to me is like, dude, come on. Like, there's so much here we don't know.

It's impossible. It's literally impossible to pick who's right or who's wrong based on what we're seeing on TV because this is a marriage. At the end of the day, he did call it off. You know, it was not right. He did call it. Could he have gone about it better? Absolutely.

But if you're going to watch the beginning of the summer, all of this shit, and then tell me that she was blindsided, come on. Like, the writing was on the, we've seen it. She could have been blindsided because the last month was pretty good. Maybe, again, but that's a month. Like a good month of good behavior and good relationship isn't going to equate to a full blindsiding. But then we get to the dinner scene and we're talking about Jesse's dating life, which is, again, he's been nothing but forthcoming. Yeah.

He's not being sketchy. He's not being shady. He's being very open about. I'm on this journey to hopefully find my person hasn't happened yet. I'm going on dates during the week. On the weekend, I'm going out. That's what people in New York do. That's why you move to New York City when you're single is to like live the nightlife.

I believe. I don't know. I would never do that. But that's what the hip kids are doing. He never sleeps, am I right? Yeah. The Big Apple, baby. But he's been nothing but forthcoming.

and this is why I'm like, oh shit, Sierra's not going to take the West News. Yeah, that's a good point. That's a really good point. Because she's like, wow, I wouldn't introduce it to my friends. You're a trash bag. I was like, damn, based on what? Because he's been honest about the fact. I think the trash bag was the harsh comment.

I understand where the rest of the sentiment comes from, and I'm okay with that part of it. Like you're just trying to fluck? Yeah, of course, yeah. Because look, at the end of the day, if you're going to introduce, anytime that you're introducing a friend, to another friend to potentially date. You have to understand things could get messy and then ruin some friendships and then you have to do damage control and all that shit.

So for somebody like Sierra who is moving at a snail's pace with West, you have to imagine that maybe her friends do the same thing. And you don't want them to get hurt because they find out that Jesse is going on four dates a week, going out on the weekends, hooking up with chicks all the time. It's just not, you know what?

Okay, but why do you have to offer that information? Well, yeah, I don't have to offer the information. I get, I understand where she's coming from. I don't like the trash bag comment. I don't, I don't think that it's, it was said in jest, I think. It was not. She had some staying to it. My whole point is like, you did, she didn't need to chime in.

She didn't need to chime in. That was an unnecessary dig. No, it's not like they were considering introducing a friend of Sierra's agency. It's not like that was a conversation. Just brought up his dating life. Yeah. That's all he was talking about.

And she called him a trash bag. You're just trying to fuck. That's good. The way she said you're just trying to fuck, that's cool was condescending. And he's like, he goes to his confession. He's like, yeah, it was pretty fucking mean. Like, I don't know what I did. I think the main thing to take away from this is what you already said.

Sarah's not going to handle the West thing. No, that's what I'm saying. She's getting like this about Jesse who's open and honest about his life. Like, she might kill West. I don't know. That's going to be an interesting thing. I think it's going to be good. I think it's going to force the conversation that has needed to happen for a few weeks at this point.

It'll be good in the sense of progressing a storyline. Yeah. Yeah, and maybe not good for them. Maybe it might be good for them. She went to visit his family. Yeah, no, again, yeah, but the social media of it all. We already know that they're at least still talking. Yeah.

On talking terms, whatever. Or cordial at best. If we didn't see any of that, we could be like, it's going to really badly. It could. But we finally get to the conversation. And leading up to it, Amanda does say in a confessional, I get why he wouldn't say anything. and I think that, again, people look at this so black and white where it's like you should do this, this, this, and this.

Have you been perfect in all of your relationships and how you've handled things? It's not even that. It's the fourth wall of it all where you know it's going to come out and you know people are going to talk about it and you have to get ahead of it. That's really all it is, I think, because honestly, yeah, did Carl handle it like shit?

Of course he did. But maybe he needs more time to understand and try to figure out his headspace from that conversation. Okay. And you don't really have that kind of time on a reality TV show. Well, until you get married, bro. Until you get married. Yeah, that too.

So I think, yeah, Amanda's saying I would go run away and hide instead of having this conversation. We know that Carl is not ready for this conversation. He's had, what, a couple of days since he talked to his parents. He was not prepared. He doesn't even know where his mental state is right now after that conversation. He doesn't know what's going on. So we can see all of that, but he has to do this because of the wedding and because of the TV show. You're right. You're right. And it's a good point. And they go in and Carl comes clean and tells her everything. And what I didn't like, and she does this, she's done this a few times. She's like, you're very angry. It's like he's not, he's clearly not mad right now. He's clearly about to have a panic attack, but there's no anger being portrayed here. And that bugs me throwing that word out there. Right. I mean, that's besides the point. I just didn't like the setup.

Yeah, you don't know, like, how she's actually handling her emotions in that moment. inside as well, I guess. Yeah, so I think we can let that one go. I'll let it slide, but he tells her, Lou said that he wouldn't marry us, but they both love you. Let me throw that in there. And he's like, I should have told you before, and it was pretty significant, but Lindsay then goes on to say, this is why I don't share details with my family. And it's like, okay, fair, I guess, but at the same time, their sentiment was not wrong. Right.

You know, and also at the same time, other than the potential abusive comment that Lou made that one time, they weren't like crucifying Lindsay. They were more speaking from a standpoint of this just doesn't seem good. You're not in a good place. This doesn't seem to be working. I will say they kept it fairly fair, if you will. Like they weren't dragged. They could have been like, dude, she sucks for you. This isn't right.

Instead, Lou was just speaking from like a professional standpoint as much as he could, I guess. but Carl keeps trying to hammer home, you know, like, they love you. They love you. And she's like, that's not what we're discussing right now. And I think that what you're seeing is just the wheel spinning in Carl's head. Like, he's full-blown about to have a panic attack. Yeah. Like, he's literally about to have a panic attack.

But he says, like, I didn't want you to be blindsided when this comes out on TV. Is this a blindsiding conversation? Yes, because you have up until this point been making her feel comfortable that everything's okay because you're afraid to have this conversation. That's a misstep by Carl. because now you're dropping all of this news on her like, oh, shit, it's not okay. Everything I told you is not true. So, yeah, that's a problem.

That's a big problem. That's why the first conversation should have went a different way. It did not. Do I think he's trying to manipulate? No, I really don't. I think that it's sped up. Now is the point of reckoning where it's like, okay, here's everything, blah. And it goes poorly, obviously, because you have set it up that everything was good.

She got comfortable again, and now you're ripping the rug out from underneath her. So, yeah, that part was fucked up. with it but she she presses the anger thing again and he says this is every this is really intense everything's really intense right now I'm overwhelmed I don't know what to do he's not acting in this moment he's not trying to put on a face he's not he's legitimately in a spiral right now with no idea of what to do because I think that he loves Lindsay I think that in his heart of hearts he wants this to work I think in his brain he understands that this will not work I think he's afraid to crush her.

I think he's afraid to embarrass both of them on TV, even though they already have. And that's the vibe I get. So when people say manipulation or he's setting up chess pieces or this or that, whatever, I don't think that's what's happening. I think what you see is a relationship that was never destined to work out. It's two people that do not get along with each other in a relationship kind of sense. I think it sped up.

They were assuming this would work itself out during the summer. Instead, it went the other way. The worst thing that could have happened, honestly, was having that good month in between because they thought they were in a better place. But like you said earlier, one good month does not erase potentially a year or two of a shitty relationship. I think that that's what people are missing here. This is not based off of the last month. This is based on the relationship as a whole.

And like you said, they've both fucked up along the way here. So it's not that simple. I feel like at the end of the day, the fact that both of them are harping on this good month shows that the relationship. that the relationship is completely flawed. Yes, I agree. You can't look at the one month and say, well, things are going really well, let's see how it goes when you're that close to a wedding.

And you can't throw that in someone's face and say, we've had a good month, okay? Like these feelings are coming from the past year. These feelings are coming from way longer ago than just the one month. And I think, if anything, Carl was probably leaning one way, saying this probably isn't going to work, but I don't know how to go about this.

Definitely. And all the things that we saw this summer where people are identifying his chess pieces that he's moving around the board. It's probably just him testing the water. It's him going to his friends, people that know him closest, saying, yeah, you know, this is what's going on, whatever.

And them reacting in a way of, dude, like, are you sure you need to get married? Are you sure you want to get married? And then the final boss, if you will, were his parents. Yeah. Finally got to that point. He tested the water with all of his friends. Talk to Carl, talk to all the other guys.

I'm sure he's talking to people back in New York. He's talking to all these people about his relationship, which, yeah, maybe that Lindsay has a point on, like try to keep it inside, but not the parent aspect of it all. But maybe don't be talking to all your friends, and Lindsay should probably also not be talking to all of our friends about that, too. Exactly, though. But Carl doing this, like, it's not him laying chess pieces out. It's him unsure, him leaning towards this isn't going to work out. I need to see how everybody else feels about this.

Not the best way to do it, but whatever. Going to your parents at the very end is just confirmation. Is them saying the fact that Lou came out and said, I wouldn't marry you right now, wouldn't marry you, that's confirmation immediately, and he is not handling it well. And I think that maybe even if he wanted that, maybe if that's what he was doing the whole summer, was trying to get the courage to say,

I don't want to get married. Once you get that confirmation from your stepdad, from your mom, it kind of hits you all at once, I'm sure. So maybe that's him rattled right now where he's like, fuck, that's confirmation. I do need to end this. I do need to postpone this.

I need to at least tell Lindsay what's going on. And obviously, Lindsay's going to be emotional because this is all getting dumped on her right now. And if you're looking at it under the guise of, we've been really good for this last month, why are you dumping this on me now? Yeah, you're going to say you were blindsided. But if you look at the relationship as a whole,

as you probably should, you can't actually be blindsided by this. I agree with you. And I think that I keep coming back to what I keep saying it over and over again, but the layers of this whole thing, I think that it's very short-sighted for anybody to say firmly, this is it. This is so-and-so being an asshole.

this is so-and-so fucking up. This is so-and-so manipulating and trying to move chess pieces because at the end of the day, yes, it's a reality TV show. This is their life. This is both of their lives. So I don't think that either of them

have the foresight to be like, I'm going to set myself up to look good on the show. I think they're both concerned about their actual lives in these moments and I think it transcends reality TV. And I think that people are getting lost in the mix of that. I'm sure we're going to catch shit for this somehow, even though I think that we did a good job

staying relatively neutral. Yeah, I think we did. Hi, I'm here to tell you about Good Morning Night Vale. Welcome to Night Vale's official recap show and unofficial best friend food podcast. Join me, Meg Bashwinner and fellow tri-hosts, Hal Lublin and Symphony Sanders, as we dissect all of the cool, squishy, and slimy bits of every episode of Welcome to Night Vale. Come for the insightful and hilarious commentary and stay for all of the weird and wild behind-the-scenes stories. Good morning, Night Vale, with new episodes every other Thursday. Get it wherever you get your podcasts.

Yes, even there. Hi, we're Meg Bashminer. And Joseph Fink. Of welcome to Nightvail. And on our new show, The Best Worst, we explore the Golden Age of Television. To do that, we're watching the IMDB viewer-rated best and worst episodes of classic TV shows. The episode of Star Trek, where Beverly Crusher has sex with a ghost. The episode of The X-Files, where Scully gets attacked by a vicious housecat.

And also the really good episodes, too. What can we learn from the best and worst of great television? Like, for example, is it really a bad episode or do people just hate women? The best worst. Available wherever you get your podcasts. D.C. high volume, Batman. The Dark Nights definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear.

I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle kid. After him, I'll have you shot. What do you mean blow up the building? From this moment on. None of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts.

Bring it on. Let's get to some questions. Something that I actually noticed, too, from B. Dawn. Why was Lindsay looking into the camera so much at her brunch? Did you notice that too? I noticed that. He was like super aware that the cameras were around and she kept looking. She has wanted to be the bride for a very long time,

and she was in that moment and wanted to make sure the camera was hitting the right angles and make sure that it was getting her dress. Yeah. I'm not in a negative way. I think it's my day. I want to make sure I'm highlighted. I think it's a very special day.

I think she's also aware that Carl's mom is there, that her stepmom's there. Maybe if she is going to have this conversation, are the cameras close by? Are they going to pick this up? Of course they are. You've been on the show long enough. They're of course going to pick that up.

But, yeah, it did look funny that she was very aware. I noticed that, too. Yeah. Daria underscore PNG Was Lindsay wrong for treating Carl's mom that way? Look, that one's a tough one to answer. I thought that she was a little weird with her in the beginning, but I can't imagine that she felt great

knowing that they said some disparaging things about her and their relationship. I don't know. That's tough. I don't think so. I think that she was on edge. I think they talked about. Yeah, and like, what do you want her to do?

Yeah, it's tough. The first time you're seeing his mom after that conversation and clearly something went wrong, I think, again, I gave her kudos in the moment for even broaching the subject because it's on her mind and not letting it eat away at her and causing resentment towards Carl's mom. I don't think that she was wrong for treating her that way because I don't think she... I don't think she treated her rudely. I think she just wanted to talk to her. I think they were both awkward.

Yeah. And they had the conversation eventually, and it seemed to be a decent conversation. I'm going to try to figure this one out. I think I know what they're saying from Kate OEA. Curious, Lindsay's Fear of Abandonment slash Mom and how hurtful all of that was. I'm going to assume that's the end of the question. I'm going to assume that means what does that say about the whole Carl of it all? Well, I think that obviously that may weigh into, and Carl brought that up when he was talking to Kyle and Amanda that because of that he was even more afraid to have the same.

conversation because she has that feeling of abandonment. That's something that's been inherent in her entire life because of her mom. So I think that it's just, yeah, it sucks. It sucks that that's an aspect of this, but it is because that's how Lindsay feels and you can't take that away from her. But at the same time, that's not a reason to get married. You know what I mean? Yeah, and I don't think it's, I don't think that's why she's getting married. I don't think that's No, no, no, I know you're not saying that. I'm just saying, I don't think that's why she's getting married. I don't think that's why she's, like, turning a blind eye to how bad the relationship was

and then saying, oh, why are we not getting married right now? I think that that does have to play into her psyche, for sure. Absolutely. I'm sure that there's a lot that goes into who Lindsay is today and all of that that happened to her. But, yeah, I don't really think that that comes into play here because Carl knows all, well, now he knows all of that. That was my point was that that could affect Carl into, like, trying to figure out a way through this when he saw the writing on the wall earlier.

But he's equating into it, oh, but she has abandonment issues. Like, I don't want to add to that. I think it definitely adds a dynamic to this whole thing. But I, yeah, yeah, tough one. And we'll do one more here from caroline.cook 20. Thoughts on Lindsay inviting page to the shower and not the wedding. Bucked. Yeah.

Don't invite her. It doesn't make any sense. Don't invite her. She's not invited to the wedding. Don't invite her to the shower. Also, go birds. Hell yeah. Go,

as Caroline Cook said. Yeah. It just seems... It's almost a slap in the face. It's a slap in the face. And I get... I think that maybe they sent the invitations out, like before Lindsay and Paige were cool.

And then she said, oh, wow, maybe I could have her at my... That's definitely what happened. Shinga was supposed to be nice, but it comes off across as mean. Yeah, it comes off across as mean. And I agree with Paige by not going. Yeah, I wouldn't have gone. It's a weird move.

I wouldn't have gone. That's like, yeah, no thanks. Maybe like getting invited to a party an hour before. and knowing that like the invites went out like two months prior yeah yeah exactly like no i'm good good point uh but that's all i got you got anything uh nope nope oh one thing if you have not signed up for brav bros members yet and you want exclusive access to your boys over here i don't think they've ever called us your boys your boys boys boys boys the bros go ahead click that link in our bio five dollars a month or 50 for the whole year again the goal for this is to give us more

time and freedom to give you the content you want with your input on what that content is. Other than that, Rob Rose are out of here. See you. American history is full of infamous tales that continue to captivate audiences, decades, or even hundreds of years after they happened. On the infamous America podcast, you'll hear the true stories of the Salem Witch Trials and the escape attempts from Alcatraz, of bank robbers like John Dillinger and Pretty Boy Flo. of killers like Lizzie Borden and Charles Starkweather, of mysteries like the Black Dahlia and D.B. Cooper, and of events that inspired movies like Goodfellas, Killers of the Flower Moon,

Zodiac, Eight Men Out, and many more. I'm Chris Wimmer. Join me as we crisscrossed the country from the Miami Drug Wars and Dixie Mafia in the South, to mobsters in Chicago and New York, to arsonists, kidnappers, and killers in California, to unsolved mysteries in the heartland and in remote corners of Alaska. Every episode features narrative writing and cinematic music, and there are hundreds of episodes available to binge. Find Infamous America, wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm here to tell you about Good Morning Night Vale.

Welcome to Night Vale's official recap show and unofficial best friend food podcast. Join me, Meg Bashwinner, and fellow tri-hosts, Hal Lublin and Symphony Sanders, as we dissect all of the cool, squishy, and slime, bit of every episode of Welcome to Nightvale. Come for the insightful and hilarious commentary and stay for all of the weird and wild behind-the-scenes stories. Good morning, Nightvale, with new episodes every other Thursday. Get it wherever you get your podcasts. Yes, even there.