Bros & Shows - The End of Lindsay and Carl Part 2 (Summer House Finale Full Recap pt 2)

Episode Date: June 4, 2024

Whats up Bros? The conclusion of Summer House starts now... In this episode we pick up where the cameras picked up in NYC. Carl sits down with Kyle following a tumultuous fight between he and Lindsay. Kyle finally flat out asks, are you ready to get married? Highlighting that marriage won't fix your problems. Carl seems like his mind has been made up and is unsure of what to do next. Was Kyle the best person to have this sit down? Did we need someone less biased present? Either way, we get THE conversation the following morning. Carl sits down with Lindsay allegedly to hash things out and move forward. From where we were sitting it seemed like Carl when into that convo with his mind made up to end things. Listing a whole lot of reasons that are probably true (name calling, mean texts, yelling etc) but Lindsay probably has plenty of valid reasons as well. The bottom line is these two were not meant to be together. Was it a blindsiding? Lindsay calls her dad to tell him and his response? "Oh boy"...? Oh boy... The ladies of Summer House get together following the news and the majority is down the middle, they didn't belong together this is for the best... Gabby however has taken a firm stance on team Lindsay. Lindsay comes in and doesn't know where the break up came from... Now the questions remain. Was she blindsided? Did Carl set her up with the cameras? What team do you support? Or are you like us.. At the end of the day this is two people that never should have gotten engaged and thank goodness they didn't go through with the marriage... Introducing BravBros Members! Offering exclusive access, bonus episodes, monthly Q&A zoom and more! Use the link below to join! https://thebros.memberful.com/join Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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And so that'll make it a... I don't need the spotlight. I shine just fine. Hi, I'm Karma. And yes, I am a bitch. Bravo's. Camera shut down. This is supposed to be the end of the season.

Cameras come back up. This is where some of the controversy starts. Was this the blindsiding because did Carl reach out to production? Yes, he did. He claims to have done it so that he could protect himself from what would come out later. So he didn't want this story to be spun to a different narrative. Do I believe that to a certain extent? Yeah.

Could it have also been a play? Yeah, that's where this one's kind of tough. So I'm a little on the fence there. But if he is in fact afraid of her, which all signs point to yes, I could see him doing both. I think both can be true. And I think we got some insight into that, and I'll wait for a few minutes while we go through the Kyle, Carl, of it all. Just to get into that, I think I have a better idea of where we stand on the, I want to pick cameras back up. I'm curious to hear that.

I'm excited. But Carl and Kyle, I actually, I thought Kyle handled this fairly well. Obviously, he's got some bias towards Lindsay, but I thought his advice, if you take the emotion out of it, like it's sound advice from a. friend but you know carl's at a loss he talks about the ride back from montauk they're unable to resolve anything they get back they slept in a different room did i think that he was playing it up a little bit by like mentioning the water bottles yeah like you can just say we fought got back like i slept on the couch i slept in the bed in the guest room whatever like we we had a huge blowout but as he's going over the summer he's like i don't even know what to say the only person

i did not get along with this summer is my fiancee we've haven't had sex in three weeks weeks. I'm starting to come to the realization that she's never going to change. And that's where it's like, bruh, how? You know, like she's been this person for over a year, over, not even over a year. That's just taking it back to when she wasn't drinking and being supportive of you in that moment. But collectively, Lindsay Hubbard has been this person. She's been consistent. You can't knock her there. She has. So when she says, you know me, you knew me. I'm like, yeah, and I feel bad because we do we all do we've seen it so yes you're correct you've been yourself can't fault you for that so anyway kyle's response is look we're all protective our relationships but what are you protecting

that's a good line because if you look at what you're trying to save what is it really what is it that you guys are trying to turn into a successful relationship when the foundation as you said earlier is fundamentally flawed. The basics, communicating, giving the other person what they want and need, being able to give the other person what they want to need, being capable of that is such a massive part of it in any relationship. And it's not even one of those situations where things went bad here, or things started to take a turn for the worst here.

We were talking about it last year when we didn't know that they broke up, we didn't know that they weren't going to go through at the wedding, how awkward it was. Right. The rest of the house was walking on. eggshells because of the two of you in the house and I'm convinced that if Danielle didn't put her foot in her mouth and try to get involved and you guys had a common enemy to go after we would have seen a lot of this shit last year but instead you were able to just go after Danielle and talk about that the whole time and yeah the rest of the house was

talking about your relationship and whether or not you guys should be dating but we would have seen a lot of these things last year and it sounds like it carried over into the fall you guys started couples therapy in November and then there was a huge blowup that caused you to go back to your parents, which now we understand why Lindsay doesn't respect it because she has a completely different perspective of relationships. So there's a lot of things that led up to this. And for you to sit down now,

which, by the way, it bothered me that it was just Kyle that he sat down with. And I had that issue for a lot of these conversations because Kyle was his safe person to talk to, but it was really just his safe person that talk shit on Lindsay with. Yeah, because you know he's got that Lindsey bias. If you were to sit down and look,

I get it, you know, this is a very integral moment of your life. So you want to sit down with Kyle because he's your best friend. He's known you for a long time. I need Paige there. I need Paige there. I need Jesse there. I need people that are able to stay unbiased and actually give you some feedback because somebody like Paige is going to sit there and she's going to say what she said at the end of the episode.

You guys shouldn't be together. You guys shouldn't get married. She came to that realization weeks ago. She's at the doomsday party as well. Yeah. Like she's just, she's been talking about this the whole time. We need people like that. Even throw Amanda in there if you're going to have Kyle there.

She's going to be more supportive of Carl. And she is. And that's okay. hey, but she'll at least give you a different perspective where we know where Kyle lands. It's a good point. And we know how he feels about Lindsay. And yeah, they try to get along and be friends whenever they can. But at the end of the day, they're not.

They just don't really like each other. So sitting down with just Kyle in this moment, that bothered me. That's fair. And I know why he did it. He did it because this is going to give me perspective and this is going to give the viewers perspective on why I'm about to do what I'm about to do. So that's a little bit of a play. It's a little bit of a play sitting down with Kyle first.

That's fair. I know, and again, I'll get into why I think that he decided to have the cameras back up for the conversation with Lindsay, but I, this one was very seriously a, let me share with the viewers and Kyle my psyche. Okay. And what happens after camera stopped. Okay. Before we do this. I agree with that. And if that's the case, then yeah, that would be another knock on car.

Like, that's kind of, that's not kind of fucked up. That's fucked up. Yeah. Because you're teeing it up, right? Like, if you go into the conversation with Lindsay without the preamble with Kyle, it's a different scenario. To tee it up, now we're already leaning towards, oh, Carl's having a really hard time. All right, valid point. Very valid point.

But it takes us into what we've all been waiting for all season. We knew about this scene. This scene has been talked about for a very long time. People have speculated on it since the moment it happened, literally, because the next day it hit the headlines. As Page points out in the after show, we wonder how that happened. But hits the headlines the next. day people are speculating so we finally get this scene and lindsay starts it out with i don't want to fight with you and i came to this realization that maybe asking questions is me belittling you or you feel

that it's me belittling you which i thought was very introspective i was like all right that's kind of meeting him halfway do i agree that you were belittling him no actually in the scenes that you were talking to him i thought they were valid questions but good work you're trying and then she follows it up with, but where is this coming from? These last two weeks, and I'm like, hold on, pause. This has not been two weeks. No. This has not been a two week problem.

This is a two week problem. This is a very different conversation, right? This is a collective problem. This is over the span of your relationship period, which you, phenomenal point, Mr. Magouter, if Danielle was not the common enemy, I do think we would have seen a lot of this begin last summer. Yeah. That's a very,

very strong point. But she says and points out, probably a very valid point as well. She goes, I was the soundboard for your lover boy drama in the past. When you were going through with Kyle, I was the one there to help you work through it.

You were very inquisitive. I was answering questions. I was also very inquisitive. Asking questions, there was no issue there. But all of a sudden, your needs changed in these last two weeks. And I became the enemy.

I do agree with that. It seemed as though she couldn't do or say anything right, whereas she was trying to navigate this. Regardless what she said, she seemed to kind of hit a nerve. Yeah, and when it comes to the lover boy thing, and it's really funny that he was going back to lover boy after, because you can compare the two. It's very easy to compare the two because it's the exact same thing.

When he was leaving lover boy last year, this might actually be a peek into the psyche of Carl. He wanted to leave lover boy. But he needed to talk to Lindsay to spin it into the, I want to leave, but I need you to get there with me. This is the opposite now. He wants to go back and he wants her to be the opposite. He wants her to be on his team saying, yeah, I'm asking you questions, but in a happy way. Last year when I was asking you questions about this exact same job, when you wanted to leave, you were okay with it.

And we were good for that reason because I agreed with you. even though you hadn't gotten quote unquote gotten to that realization i need to leave this time you want to go back you need me to be on board with it but i have very serious questions about this because of where we were last year if i flipped it you would be we would be fine with this right now and we probably would have gone through the wedding honestly that's spot on yeah that's exactly what it is that's really good i agree with you i think that that's where the big hiccup is where they can't get on the same page about the lover boy thing specifically is yeah totally that makes total sense well done you're on you're on today sir i got it you're on i've got my bravo therapist

hat on yeah you do this is where carl doesn't do himself any favors because he's like you know i've brought up lots of ideas you shoot them all down the cigars the actor thing the sober bar it's like yeah fuck man like that's not going to help out your case because look you're giving ideas these are ideas not tangible nine to five like if you're trying to appease your partner and be like all right i'll find something go for a job an actual job with a salary health care all xyz you don't have to go on the entrepreneur route especially if she is at the point now or she's like it's been 10 months dude i need you to make a move here that's going after a job that is salaried that

has as like actual payment not a dream of yours i'm not saying that you can't turn something not those ideas, but turn something into monetary value. But in this moment, she's saying, I need you to find a job that's different than what does cigars mean? I have no idea. Is he going to make cigars? Is he working for a cigar company? If he was working for a cigar company, I think that would be fine. That's different.

You want to go be a sales rep for a cigar company? Cool. That's a job. You want to start your own line of cigars? That's entrepreneurship. Different. Yes. Yes.

There's very different things there because on the one hand, immediate pay. tables what i think you should leave sorry what's your job tables every time you throw those out you confuse it bring it back but i hope our audience watches that show

they do now yeah i hope so but while those are not great examples you know this is where we start to get a peek into the fights that we don't get to see and this is where you just these are problems these are not okay things like this are not okay they're getting into it on sunday night

and she pulled out her phone to record the conversation to show him like how nasty he was being i guess and like that's not okay that's a fucking problem that's toxic as shit and it came out because she says you know me why did you propose and he answers i don't know she goes well, I'm going to start recording you. Anytime a phone is brought into an argument to record the conversation. Between two people that are getting married? Is a fucking massive issue. It's a massive issue.

And like, that is not at all okay. But Carl points out to her, you know, you live in, I live in two different worlds with you. And you spin this reality. And then you play the victim and you ask for grace and I feel controlled. And then he brings up texts and, you know, where she's in. insulting and implying a relapse and calling him a little bitch and a bitch boy and a mama's boy and do i think that lindsay hubbard wants carl to relapse no i don't no no i absolutely do i think that maybe they've had some issues with you know conversations about sobriety sure

is that the same as wanting a relapse no and i think that's a really really strong thing to say and i won't put that evil on her don't put that evil on me ricky bobby yeah i don't think that's fair. But the bottom line, Carl finally says it. He goes, I don't know what to do because I can't live like that. I'm not ready to get married to each other. We trigger each other.

We hurt each other all the time. I don't want that life. Her response. What happened in the last two weeks? Once again, she's stuck on these last two weeks. And I think that you pointed out earlier, and I'm not going to falter for this. I think

her image of what they had gone through previously was, yeah, that was some shitty fights, but we got past those. We're on. It's almost as though it's like, okay, on to the next week. Yeah. Like, we'll figure this out. Those are the ebbs and flows that she talks about.

I agree. And that's why she says that so much. And I don't think that's even her reaching. I think that's literally just her mindset, which is fine. People operate differently. Yeah. Carl also said this episode that he doesn't work that way. He sits and stews on things.

Again, fundamental flaw to very different things. on how to react and process. And this is why, and I guess I'll touch on really quickly why I think that the cameras were brought back up. Really quickly, I've been waiting for 10 minutes to get this. Yeah, sorry. I'm going to touch on the why I think cameras were brought back up. And there's one of two ways to look at this.

Bring it. You want me to go the Petty route or do you want me to go the psyche route, if you will? Let's start with the realistic route. Okay. We'll go the realistic route. So Petty's not realistic. So they both have the same root cause. if they're fighting and Lindsay's going to pull out her phone and record

Carl doesn't feel safe enough to do that and in his own mind he says okay well I need to make sure that you can't spin this that you can't do this I'm sitting down to have a civil conversation with you the only way to do that without me pulling my phone out and doing that you pulling your phone out and doing that is to have Bravo here we're going to sit down with Bravo Bravo's going to be here with their production they're going to be here with the cameras and then whatever this is will be on camera and there's nothing either of a

can do to really spin it. Okay. That's the realistic route. And that's how fucked up their relationship is, that he even thinks that he has to do that. Okay. That's insane. The petty route, which is kind of funny, I'm going to one you up.

You want to pull your phone out and record me on our car ride home? I'm going to call Bravo and bring the cameras down here, and we're going to do this here. I get the ultimate last laugh when it comes to cameras and things being on camera. Interesting on both. I don't think that Carl is, and we've seen Carl for years. He's, you know, he does a lot of things.

I don't think he's that petty. That would be... That would be the peddiest. I could see Lindsay doing that. That would be the pettiest move. Yeah, that would definitely be the pettiest move. But my biggest issue with this whole conversation, we have both talked at length about what is wrong with this relationship.

And the Carl's been looking for an escape plan. There are very many ways that you can do that. I agree. There are very many things that Lindsay has done on camera, both on and off camera, obviously, that we've heard through the grapevines or we've seen ourselves. You could point to any number of those things. Why are you harping on the fucking career thing?

I don't know. That's the worst one. I agree. You could just sit down and have this conversation and say the conversation that we had in the beginning of the summer, you could talk about the Memorial Day thing when you went back to your parents,

which is probably similar to the one that we saw, where she accused you of being on drugs or drinking. Lean into that. Agreed. That's your biggest thing. And you're saying that she wants you to relapse in all of this, which we both agree

there's no way that she actually wants you to relapse she might use that as ammo and accuse you of doing things and certain things like we've seen

lean on that leave the fucking career thing out of here because the rest of us are looking at this like dude she's right about the career thing

don't go after that we've seen her do so many worse things to you that you could bring up a list of that and say this is

why I don't feel comfortable being with you this is why I don't feel comfortable marrying you because of X, Y and Z you accuse me

of being on rugs. That's number one. Don't do that. You know what happened to my brother. That made me feel very insecure. And now I have to be in my feelings about that the entire summer, worrying that you're going to do it again and do it again and do it again. That would be right away. The easiest way. These text messages that you apparently got where she's calling you a bitch boy. Exactly. Any number of those things. Not the career. You start off with the career and that's the biggest part of the conversation. Like, I just don't understand that at all. I agree. I agree. but she just tries one more time.

She says, I don't have quitting me. His response, our fights are not normal. Yeah. They're not, by the way. They are not, by the way. I'm not pointing the finger to either side here. Your fights are not normal because you guys can't communicate, so the fights turn into a knockdown, drag out.

I'm going to make you feel horrible, and you're going to make me feel horrible. And then we're going to brush it under the rug and move forward and act like it didn't happen until we go to therapy during the week. By the way, I'm not a therapist, but the point of therapy is to be able to learn how to apply the tools to your everyday life, not, let's put this on the back burner. I think that's the rule in the beginning.

Hey, if there's conflict, wait until you come in here. I think when you're 10 months into your therapy. We saw that in, what, July? Yeah. At that point, you're going to need to be able to communicate unless, you know, there's two or three years until you're getting married. But if you've got two months to go and you still cannot resolve issues in conflict without a third party present, then no, you shouldn't get married. Agreed.

You just, that's pretty obvious. But she gets up, walks away, instead of trying to get on the same page, you're just ending things because it's easier. I would argue that it's not easier to call off a wedding or an engagement. But as she walks away, the producer's checking on her. She calls her dad. And her dad's response, actually, you know, I know it's a sad moment, but it made me laugh because she's like, you know, he showed up ready to the decision.

And like he wants to, he called off the wedding. We broke up. He goes. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. With Amex Platinum, access to exclusive Amex pre-sale tickets can score you a spot track side.

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Fall Experience Event. Condition supply, visit your local Volvo retailer or go to explorevolvo.com. Boy. Here's the, I don't know. So I had a couple of thoughts about that. One, kind of a funny response. Two, Lindsay has said that she doesn't talk to her parents about anything. This is, uh, yeah, yeah, but at the same time, like, oh, I see.

Parents were really blindsided, really and truly blindsided by this. Oh, boy is not the response that you would expect from your dad. Hey, boy. Oh, boy. That sounds like a man who has heard a lot of the things that you have been going through. That's a good point. And knows what's going on. Maybe the difference is, like,

Lindsay vents, but leaves it there, whereas Carl who actually talks about it? I don't know. That's a good point. The, oh, boy, made me, I wrote it down because it made me laugh. It made me laugh. Your response is, oh, boy. But as soon as that happened, I'm like, you talk to your parents about this.

You clearly do. So don't call Carl a bitch boy and a mama's boy for going to talk to his parents when you're very clearly talking to your parents about this. That's a good point. It's a good point. And, you know, this is where Carl gets his one-on-one with the producers. People have talked about this moment as well, was this. a play from him where you know we hear like relationships take work but not this much work

and you know he says that i feel crazy and all those different things this is where we get the landlord line that they've gotten notice from their landlord that they're making too much noise during arguments again i am hesitant to claim truths without tangible evidence that's a bold statement so i'm not going to use that one here at all maybe he'll show up with a bedazzled folder it will yeah it'll show it up yeah hopefully but this is where you get everything coming out and i think as we've said before carl did himself a favor by not trying to combat this early because you see the headlines and oof i forgot about it like carl's got a mistress she got pregnant and blinds eye all this different stuff coming out in the media but uh the last scene

of the season is a little meet up with the girls everyone's trying to process everything that they've just learned and they all learned about it through the press as well it was all online stuff like that but daniel was the first to find out from anybody because lindsay called daniel like 7 a m and then amanda says kyle got a call from production on tuesday saying we need to film something and this is where we start to get the thoughts and feelings from the group's page texted carl the day of and was like hey i love you you're going to be okay carl responds with love you too I didn't want a blindsider with the cameras and things like that. And Paige feels bad for both.

I think the sentiment in the room overall is most of them feel bad for both sides. Gabby, not at all. Nope. Gabby is on. He's riding hard for Lindsay. Gabby's on Team fuck Carl in the face. Like she hates Carl. And as Amanda starts to get into it because Gabby's big shot at Carl was he said some

fucked up stuff on Sunday. I'm sure he did. Amanda says, look, they both said fucked up things to each other. I've heard it from both sides. And that's where we all lie, I think, for the most part, right? Like, they both said horrible things to each other.

I think that we can agree and have agreed throughout this episode where Carl fell short was how he handled it. He handled it horribly. Absolutely horribly. He did embarrass her. He did humiliate her.

He told her one thing And meanwhile, he's saying everything else off camera. He's showing up to the bridal shower and in this confessional. I have to pick a lane. Am I going to call this off? Or am I all in and I'm all in? You let her on. Yep.

You let her on. That was fucked because this isn't like leading her on up to a proposal. You're leading her on up into the actual marriage itself. Not cool. You fucked up. Yes. However, this has not been a two-week thing, as Lindsay keeps saying. And throughout the entire relationship,

she said horrible things to him we've seen how they resolve conflict it's by not talking about it until it comes up again later and now you're fighting about five different things instead of one different thing and this is where gabby even says i don't blame him for calling it off i blame him for how he did it Amanda yeah agreed yeah we can all agree on that Amanda's big thing is the bigger thing the biggest thing here is not the how It's not how it went down. And Gabby's response with, we don't really know why they broke up. It's like, I mean, you can pick either side for that one.

I can understand if Gabby was just going after Carl for all of the ways that he treated it and how he went about it and the execution of the whole thing, absolutely. That makes a lot of sense to me. And I also understand if you're that close to Lindsay and you've been talking to Lindsay and Lindsay let you know that this happened, you're going to be team fuck Carl, no matter what. but she's seeing so much red that she doesn't understand. And I get it. Maybe she does have there some semblance of Amanda's being compassionate for Carl

because she's friends with Carl. Could be. So Gabby could be looking at Amanda as a Carl ally and then seeing even more red towards her. But that's not what Amanda's trying to do here. Amanda's just trying to say what everybody else is thinking and everybody else already knows that has been in that house and has been friends with Lindsay and Carl for years. This was never going to work. So it's good that this happened.

And Paige echoes that in a more, you know, woman supporting women sort of way. Fuck Carl, yeah, absolutely, you know, he did you a favor. You don't need him. But, yeah, we're all happy that it didn't happen. That's the bottom line. That's the biggest thing. And when she arrives to the apartment, and I thought it was also interesting that when she walks in crying, people say, we didn't expect you to be crying. It's like, I, why?

Because it's Lindsay. And she's, I guess, but I think anybody would follow up. part in that moment but this is where you know the blind siding in her stance comes in and i think you you could be right she was she was blindsizing she was in her own world right was it a blind sighting i don't know if you read the writing on the wall throughout the season especially these last two weeks to keep highlighting not really but the way that she approaches relationships especially this relationship where it's like we are in this you you proposed we're getting married we're gonna fucking trudge through the mud together

until we figure this out one way or another. I do think that they're like both can be true moment perhaps. I don't want to fault her for being like what the fuck dude because you do see every single time they have a fight she goes to a confessional and she's like, we got this. It's a tough road right now.

There was a point like last episode of this episode before maybe where you could see the change of the confessionals. Yeah. We always highlight that they do the confessions in stages and some of the confessionals are done. after filming. So you can kind of see that,

which is actually really impressive that Lindsay's still sitting there straight face saying, you know, we can get through this. It's like, how the fuck are you doing that? I don't know.

Knowing what you know now. But yeah, Lindsay coming in again. No, they film the reunion and stuff. I don't think they... The reunion is months and months later, but this part of it,

you could see that the, some of the confessionals definitely happened after this. Oh, I see what you say. Yeah, yeah. Like, just in the last couple of weeks. But Lindsay walking and obviously crying, very not normal for Lindsay.

So, yeah, they are a little bit blown away. That is just how Lindsay thinks, though, talking about how they've both been in different relationships, but she's always been in love with Carl. And for her to say that now, after what he did, she could go scorched earth. I think that's what they thought was going to happen. Lindsay's going to walk in here.

Team fuck Carl. I can't believe he did this. I don't need him. Blah, blah, blah, whatever. Instead, they saw a much softer side of Lindsay, where she really and truly, I think, thought that they were just going to go through with it. and they're going to continue to move down this

and try to figure it out the only way that they can because, yeah, we talk about car or I said earlier, Carl had this fairy tale idea of what marriage is going to be like and Lindsay was supposed to fit into that and she didn't. Lindsay, in her own way, had a fairy tale of herself thinking about Carl,

always wanting to get back to him, always comparing her ex-boyfriends to Carl. So now that she finally got him, I think this is who she is and this is how she is and she thought they'd get through it. But I think she also was in a dream phase of this is Carl. This is who I've built

up for years as the person I want to be with. So no, nothing bad will ever happen here. Yeah, we get into some fights, but we always seem to make through it. So I don't know. I think that she's again, I think you're right. It's not a blindsiding to us, the viewers, or any of their friends. But to Lindsay,

I think she was blindsided because she never anticipated this ever happening. I think that's fair. I think that's a reasonable neutral way to look at it. But Like you said, we don't have to keep beating a dead horse here. Like, everyone in the room points out, like, look, it's been bad for a while. She highlights, like, I don't know where this came from, and I feel humiliated,

and I got blindsided this and that. I do think that she feels that way. And you can't discredit somebody's feelings. At the same time, everyone else in the room is going, look, like, we've seen this coming, or at least we saw the breakdown in your relationship over the past year. Yep. It hasn't been this small window that you're talking about. But the fact that she's so focused on that smaller window,

does point to I think in her mind like you just said we'll get through this we'll be all right it's Carl it's HUBHouse Hubhouse baby we got to figure this out So yeah house down in Nashville now

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Uh, Dave, you're off mute. Hey, happens to the best of us. Enjoy some goldfish cheddar crackers. Goldfish have short memories. Be like goldfish. The white chocolate macadamia cream cold brew from Starbucks is made just the way you like it. Handcrafted cold foam topped with toasted cookie crumble. It's a sweet summer twist on iced coffee.

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So if you love movies like we do, come along on our cinematic adventure. Listen to Unspooled wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to hit the follow button. season a lot a lot to unpack a lot of people will i'm sure listening to this and think we're like staunchly on team carl or whatever but i truly am not like i really we're just trying to break it down the best we can yeah from what we saw this episode and i think that we can all just flat out agree these two did not belong together lindsay's going to be much better off with a different dude that will fit her needs and carl will be all much better off with a

that fits his needs, not trying to shoehorn in their wants and needs to, uh, it's trying to fit, what is it? Trying to fit a square into a hole. Square into a circle hole or a peg? A peg and a fuck. Yeah, that's it. We've got pieces of it. It's there.

It's there. We've got pieces of it. You guys get it. We don't have the whole long. This has been a long episode and it's emotional. So I don't, you put the, put the lime in the coconut. There you go. You get it.

Mix it all up. questions. All right. First up here. I have a question before we get into them. Question before the questions? I got a question about the questions. Okay.

Where does it seem that our audience lies as far as, let's put the line in the middle of the road, team car, team Lindsay. Where are we at? Actually, pretty even. That's interesting. There's a lot of, no, it's really even, actually. I'll do my best to ask questions that kind of bounce. Both sides of the street. Obviously, all the questions are going to be about them.

Anyway, so this is an interesting one from Jazz and A. Is it weird that Carl invited Jesse and West to his wedding, but not Paige? I think if you look... I think that was more of a Lindsay thing, or... I think if you look at Lindsay and Paige's relationship prior to this summer, that makes more sense. Yeah. From Lildo Baggins 2.0. Pardon me.

Yep. Liddo Baggins. How long do you think Carl practice his last convo with Lindsay in the mirror? Not enough. Not enough. Not enough. Yeah, I think that he ran it through a couple times, though. From Zoe Kolda Polay, does Linz think this is normal because all of her relationships

are chaotic? Could be. Lindsay's a little bit chaotic, so she might be the common denominator there. I think that for whatever reason, she has it ingrained that relationships take a lot of effort and work, and I don't think you can fault her for wanting to grow. grind it out. Yeah. I think that that's admirable in a lot of ways.

I think that it's the inability to be like, this just does not work. Maybe she doesn't want to admit to failure. I don't know. But I don't think I want to like falter for being like ride or die to try to figure it out. Yeah. That's a good point.

From E.M. Lewis, interesting perspective here. Do you think Amanda is jealous that Carl had the balls to break up with Lindsay and wishes she could break up with Kyle? That's an interesting one. Prior to this season, I would say no. She is outspoken as a person that would not be able to do these kinds of. I think that she's envious in a way of where I bet she wishes she could or have said been more stern with Kyle about what she needs and wants. Because I think this season she did a good job of relaying it.

But when it was kind of pushed to the side, you didn't get that second conversation of, look, motherfucker. So do I think she's jealous because she wants to break up with Kyle or divorce Kyle? Not necessarily, but it's an interesting perspective. Yeah. From M. Night Jamelon? Nope. No.

M. Wendelberger. Do you think Carl was clear enough with his needs? No. I don't think he was, but I think he kept saying the same thing over and over and over again. And all he was really saying was, I wish you were a different person. Yeah. And I don't, you're not. Yeah, he didn't give, I mean, yeah, he was clear about what he wanted and needed.

He was not clear on how to get there. And also not very understanding of, you're asking that of a person like you just said, that is not that person. From Billy Deal. Is Lindsay sad about the relationship ending or mad about the public embarrassment? I think there could be both. I don't want to, like, look, if you watch it throughout the season, man, like, one thing he can't take away from her, she wanted to fucking try.

So I think there's probably a hint of both. I can't imagine that that moment being caught on camera felt great. Yeah. So yeah, I would say both things can be true. And I don't think that she's at fault either for being embarrassed that that's...

No, not at all. I mean, that's probably one of those things where she eventually felt the public embarrassment. And that might actually answer as to why she was trying to get ahead of it. and talk about it as much as she did in the press. But I think what we saw where she was sitting down with the girls and talking, I think that was real and that was about the breakup.

Yeah. And maybe a couple of days later, she's like, fuck, this is going to come out. This is going to be really embarrassing for me. I'm going to try to get ahead of this. Keep going. Let's finish this season with a bang. Oh, yeah.

From Macarena Kate. Great name. Could Carl have broken up with Lindsay any better than what we, we saw yeah yes he could have done it but he was you know what he was clumsy the whole season with all these things so i don't he was consistent could he i don't know if carl was he capable no that the breakup was potentially capable of being better yes not with carl doing carl no but yes like there there was moments throughout the season where it should have been addressed and was not yeah or at the very least be more forthcoming with where you're actually at in your relationship

rather than wait till the end of the season in the summer to then bring it up. From Sharnik 1, is it time to get rid of Carl and Kyle and bring on Jesse and West's friends? Absolutely not. Yeah, you can't do it. You have to bring the back and see what looks like, at least until we see what the fuck happens with Kyle and Amanda.

Man, we have a lot of outliers, a lot of questions, and look, here's the biggest thing. When you have a season like we just saw, don't fucking touch it did you see the valley they're bringing everybody back yeah no newbies yeah no newbies leave it alone don't bother from della dot uh zadjda do you think lindsay was hoping to turn into

ariana 2.0 oh man no no because carl wasn't cheating on her you just yeah no i think i think well look i think that if you look at the the visceral reaction immediately after she did get a lot of support rally behind her carl became a monster or before we saw the season. And, I mean, I know a lot of people still think he's an asshole after watching the season. But I don't know. I don't think that that was on her mind. I think that she, like you said, wanted to get ahead of things, probably.

But I don't think that she had that on her mind. No. No? No, I don't think so either. I actually do agree with this. I was talking about this earlier. From Ash Alba, did the last scene seem like a rehearsed version of VPR finale when everybody went to Ariana's?

I do think that... Yeah, but I think at that point, production has a phone call and says, hey, a massive bomb just dropped. We got to get everybody over here. You're going to get the girls together. And they all need to talk about this. So I think that that's a layup.

I think you can't end the season without that scene. No, you can't end the season without that scene. And I don't really need the scene of Carl sitting down with Jesse West and Kyle. No, that's not necessary. All right, well, end it on this. this one, from Dream Chasing B, do you think Lindsay was more blindsided by the cameras than the actual breakup? I think both, dude.

I think that you, the way that you phrased it rings true for me, where in her mind, nothing was insurmountable. Yep. They were going to figure it out, and maybe that's because it was Carl, you know, and she built up this idea of what her and Carl's relationship would be. Yeah. do I think it was a blindsiding in the general term no do I think that she was blindsided yes yeah so yeah that's I think both I think the cameras probably caught her off guard I think that

the actual news landing I think that she probably had moments where it went through her head like oh are we going to make and then quickly it was like oh of course you will of course we'll yeah and then when it actually happened yeah I think that she was just kind of like oh my god yeah deer in the headlights yeah that's what I think I think both can be true we've had a lot of that this episode well that's the thing too and I just want to throw this in at the end. Carl did say, and I don't know if he said this in the tabloids, and whatever

it was, we talked about at the very end of the finale. Whatever it was, we talked about this at the very end of the finale. Carl said his intention was not to go into that conversation wanting to break up. His intention was to try to potentially resolve something and then see

where it goes, but the conversation went down that way and he decided to just break up there. I didn't get that. I don't get that. I don't get. that because you don't call the cameras back up to say hey we need to sit down and talk about how the last three days have been going like that whole summer was awful a whole summer was awful and you also look i mean go back and listen to the conversation at what point was it shifting towards how do we figure this out yeah there was never that avenue so i i think that that was maybe a safeguard where it's like i'm i'm this will make me look a little bit better when i'm

going to look not great calling off a marriage but at no point during that conversation was I seeing like oh here's the olive branch to figure it out it seemed as though and I think it goes deeper than that and then we'll wrap this up but like

look past like what we've been saying over the last couple of months right like there's been multiple moments that you and I have discussed where it's pretty clear that he seems to have his mind made up it doesn't seem like he's fishing for do I do this or not it's more like he's fishing for how do I do this right

and at the end of it that's how it came to pass and I will understand if the I don't think that this is a let's pick a side thing do I understand where either team lies if you pick a side I could see where your arguments are but I think that it's flawed in thinking that this was ever going to be a thing you can you can disagree with how it was handled sure you can disagree with how they treated each other, sure. But again, that's both. So, I mean, it's arguably one of those things that we shouldn't be a party to. Yeah.

But what a fucking season. What a season. I'm spent, sir. Hell yeah, brother. My God. Hill yeah, brother. I don't even know. I got nothing for you.

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