Bros & Shows - Yes. Craig Lead Her On. #TeamSally (Southern Charm Full Recap)

Episode Date: January 16, 2026

What's up Bros? This season of Southern Charm is WILD. It's like we've gone back to our roots and we are loving it. In this episode, the Sally/ Craig situation comes to a head when she opens up about catching feelings. The feelings arent reciprocated. The strange move is that Craig spins it around on Sally and calls her a tornado? This whole episode made us change our opinion on Sally in a hurry. Is she still a lot? Sure. Does she put herself in bad spots? Absolutely. But the reasons why have certainly changed for us. Venita has her "i told you so" moment at an inopportune time. Will Charley catch heat now for going out with Craig? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Tell you what, it's heating up in Charleston. It is heating up in Charleston. I didn't expect us to get back here. I thought maybe a couple people were maturing. Nope. No, we have D-chered. Yeah, D-chard. D-chard. I was going to say progressing, but yeah, D-chard.

D-Jurd. There's a drive in a deep left field by Castellanos. Oh, man, it's 8 o'clock. And so that'll make it a... I don't need the spotlight. I shine just fine. Hi, I'm Karma. And yes.

I am a bitch. Brov Bros. Good evening, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Brof Bros. Your favorite podcast from The Bros. For everybody, for whoever wants to listen, I'm your co-host. You're Russell, joined as always by the one and only South Carolina Goots. What's up, dude?

This was one of the first episodes in a while that I've watched. Everybody just kind of have fun. Get a little drunk. And I was cackling. I mean, I was having a great time watching this. It's gotten to the point, I think, with Southern Charm, where we finally understand. what to expect from everybody. It was kind of haywire there for a little while where we're like,

no, Craig, come on. You're not doing this, are you? No, he's definitely doing it. So now we're entering into the realm of just making fun of Craig. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's where we live. We've gotten, it's not our fault that we've gotten there.

We've watched him. He led the way. We just followed the path. I think we've reached a point where, just to build on what you were saying, early on, we're like, okay, is this really who Craig is now? And now we're at a point where it's like, oh, this is quite clearly new Craig, which is a weird, somehow worse blend of old Craig and new Craig has produced this Craig, which is...

It's like the Terminator 3.0. Yeah, but like, dumb or something. Yeah, well, yeah, that's a good way to put it. It doesn't make any sense. I don't even know if he's coming from like, is he doing the thing where he thinks he's smarter than everybody? So he's like, hey, let me tell you something. I guess now he's John Bernthal. Hey, let me tell you something.

Let me tell you something real quick. Just because you hang out with somebody for a month straight every single day in your hot tub, doesn't mean your friends. What are you doing here? Dude, the literalness of everything where he has to explain to other people pretty much what it means to be a human being. It's like, that's not what it is. It's this. It's like everything you're.

saying is so matter of fact that it simply cannot be true because you're blanket statementing five different people with one thing. It doesn't make any sense. And he's so steadfast. It's like he went through this healing journey, healing journey, if you're watching Salt Lake, and came out the other side, a better person. And then in going through all this shit with Page, he took all the lessons he learned and is applying them to situations that, yes.

Yeah, he's found a way to... He found the inverse property of what he learned from page. Somehow. And he's using that against the people closest to him. It's bizarre. And he can have no faults. Craig in Craig's mind is infallible in every way, shape, and form. Nobody can criticize.

Nobody can question. And when he does, he does a hissy fit, leaves and explains to the camera or to confessional about why he's 100% correct and why they're 100% wrong. And then he tells them how to be a human being. It's fucking nuts, bro. It's gone insane. It has. And I do think that there's more.

And as we get down there when we get to Boys Night Out, Girls Night Out, there's definitely more there for Austin. But it was some questionable actions going on over there. I don't know what the hell's going on. With Austin? Yeah. There's something going on there with Sally. Oh, yeah.

It's a little weird. He's getting a little too comfortable. A little too cozy. but when Craig hears something like that, no matter what it is, if it's anything that somebody who's currently opposing him has done or said... Dude, there's always somebody opposing Craig. That's how he lives, by the way. That's why he can never be happy, is he always feels like he's got ops.

I know, but like you're not a superhero with like a litany of villains after you, but he makes them in his own mind he like has to have a nemesis or else he can't function. Yeah. And you just said, too, it's almost like he's applying the inverse property from what he learned from page. That's what it feels like. He's like a superhero that's using his superpowers for villainous activity. Super dick. Yeah.

Super asshole. Super whole. Oh, there's a step further. But, yeah, it's just, it's so weird. And I do think just kind of like an overarching thing. We need more Rodrigo. I agree. Absolutely.

We got a levis sighting in this episode, which was nice to see. She looked great. She always tries to, like, interject a little bit. She's found such a good spot. I don't know. I know she was in like a weird place with the producers. They got new producers. So I guess she can just kind of pop up and pop around.

She's still friends with most of them. Most of them. So I guess it works out. But I was surprised to see her because it's now episode seven. And we hadn't seen her so far. Did we see her at all last year? Yeah. Yeah, we saw her once.

And then at the reunion briefly, wasn't she there? Was she at the reunion last year? Is that the weird sit-down one where it looked different? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it was. She bopped into that for a little while. She did. Yeah, and she, I don't think she should be at the reunion, but she's fine to be a friend of.

Like, if Whitney's not going to be at the reunion, Leva shouldn't be there. Agreed. That's kind of how I feel about that. But I do think that you have such a good cast of characters. Even the people that we completely disagree with and their behavior is just wild. You need them. You have a good cast, and this is the type of show where you can have 16 people just kind of mixing in and out and having different scenes together. A couple of them can go on a road trip and we don't see them for a couple of weeks.

They come back and they're like, hey, what did I miss? Well, a lot. That's what's going to happen. This was such a funny episode. It seemed like everybody just kind of got back to their roots. Shep was missing, but you know what? I think Shep... He's in Cuba.

Yeah, he needs some time off. He needs some time away. He's too mixed up in all of this. And he hasn't really done anything, but he's still somehow in the center of it. Just, you know, go to Cuba. Come back, everybody's going to forget what you did. He just needs some separation. Yeah, a little R&R.

Yeah, that's good for everybody. But let's jump into this episode. And we start out with... It's almost foreshadowing. It's almost like they knew, you know? We start out with sound. Sally and Charlie in this fucking chicken coop. Oh, my God.

I will say this. That wasn't even, that wasn't Charlie. Oh, sorry. Yeah, no, Charlie's in a scene. This, yeah, it's a juxtapose scene. Charlie is actually at the gallery. You got Sally with, who is this? I don't remember her friend's name, but it was just one of the friends.

It's Sally's friends. Yeah. Okay, so it's Sally's friend, and they're setting up this goddamn chicken coop. And I will say this, this episode has made me Team Sally. I'm Team Sally. It makes a lot more sense when she's talking with Madison. you get a full scope of everything. So slightly poo-poo on the producers who painting her the way they did

because in one episode they clear everything up with her conversations. I'm like, oh, okay, I understand where you're at. Yeah, it makes way more sense. It almost just, what happened in this episode almost pushes us to like Team Sally for life. Yeah, honestly. Oh, you were getting that kind of edit?

Yeah. And like, look, she said a lot of weird things. She didn't help herself. No, but she's by far from the first girl. on this show or any of the Bravo shows to just kind of weirdly go head over heels with a guy that's not interested in her and fall for that kind of tactic.

We've seen her from the guy's side too. We watched guys fall over. We watched Shep talk about what's her name's Freckles last year. So I mean, yeah, this isn't weird. No, and like it does, it does highlight, okay, you kind of got hosed with the edit.

Doesn't mean the episodes weren't entertaining, but I'm glad that they cleared things up this episode. Anyway, in this moment, she's setting up the chicken coop. And immediately the tone shifts because she says, I'm ready for a serious relationship. Now, that implies a lot of things. One, it shows you where she's at in her life. Two, we remember that she was previously engaged and that fell through.

And three, it makes a lot more sense what this whole obsession with Craig is, especially who Craig is. And not so much him as Craig, but what he embodies. And from him, he wants to settle. down, he wants to have a partner, and that's what he wants in life, according to Craig. Now, what he's doing currently does not scream that at all, but that is the image that Craig has made for himself, especially in Charleston with the sewing down south and everything. He literally is the embodiment of, like, stable relationship, self-proclaimed. I cannot stress that enough, especially with what we see later, but it makes sense now.

Now I'm like, okay, so this was, yeah, a little nutty. He got a little too far into this, a little too quickly. But this is because you saw potentially somebody that wants the same things as you at the same rate. Yeah. And you had been in his hot tub for a month. And you thought maybe, I can only imagine what kind of mental gymnastics Sally was doing while being over there. And he's like not making a move. She wants him to make a move.

And, you know, maybe she's just not like an authoritative person that's going to make that move. And she's like, hey, you should be doing something. But maybe if I hang out long enough, it'll work. I still like you. And I enjoy hanging. out with you. Craig took that as friendship, which is complete and utter bullshit. No, he didn't. And we'll get to that a little bit later. But for Sally, one, as long as you're going to give those chickens a good home, that's all I care about. Please don't do the thing where

you walk outside. You see the chickens. You think of Craig. You're like, ugh. Like, at least rehome them if you don't want to deal with the chickens. If this was all just to get Craig's attention, get him to go shopping for chickens with you, maybe come over to your house, help set up the coop. I mean, at least he wasn't there to begin with. She's doing all the end. Yeah, that's true. But yeah, not really, though, because on the other side, Charlie and Craig are hanging out as the chicken coops, like literally as that moment. Yeah, I like when they do that. Yeah, I do too, but I felt really bad. Yeah, I felt bad for Sally. Yeah, I think that this might be, now that we have the full story and we have the full scope of the situation and we've actually

gotten somewhat of a coherent thought or message from Sally about what's going on, it's like, Oh, okay. This isn't just like, I just want to hook up with Craig. Like, he's rich. He's got a nice house. Like, he's pretty set up. We'll just see where it goes. That's what production made it seem like.

Production made it seem like she was just casting away her friendship. She didn't give a shit. She's not a girl's girl. Even though Levis still says that a little bit later. Maybe she's not. I don't really care. It's not nearly as drastic as it seemed. No.

Especially the way that things played out with Vinita later this episode. So I don't know. I don't know what apology for Sally. Like, I'm not going to apologize to her because there was some weird erratic behavior in there and you kind of found yourself in this situation. But once it got to the point of I am going to figure this out for myself and I'm either going to enjoy it or it's going to be soul crushing, you're here and you're owning that. So that's all we can ask.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And like I said, at this current moment, Craig is at the gallery and asks Charlie on a date. They can only be labeled as a date. I know you crazy kids with your wacky labels. No, this is weird. This is a fucking date. You're asking her one on one.

one for a day on the water. The way you say it was fucking weird because he's like, you know, just be me and you. Me and you on the water. Oysters. And she, I like Charlie a lot. And I like that she makes fun of them. She's like, oh, yeah, just me and you. Like, what do you? What's the matter with you? So that's the setup,

which again, this whole thing is foreshadow. I will give production credit as far as like, not for the Sally Eta because I was kind of mean. They've done a good job this season of telling the stories. I think it's a good chronological. Yeah, we have all the information that we need. It just wasn't quite in the right order. Yeah. It's kind of odd and skewed. But the weird thing about Craig, watching him even operate with Charlie, it gives me an idea. You, I think this is what he's talking himself into.

And at this point, I don't really give a shit. I'm just going to act like I'm Craig for a second here. You didn't make a move on Sally because you're a bit of a coward. Yeah. And you couldn't do it. And look, Maybe you're just reeling from the page relationship, but clearly not because you're jumping right into Charlie. Yeah. Figuratively. Whoops. But I think you were probably too much of a coward to jump in with Sally. It went on for too long.

You got really self-conscious about it. And then Charlie showed up and it's like, oh, cool. I haven't done anything with Sally yet. It's almost like this is kismet. It's almost like this is perfect timing. Like if I had hooked up with Sally and then Charlie came around, I'd feel weird about this. probably wouldn't, but we'll never know. And now he's looking at it like, thank God I didn't do anything with Sally.

Maybe this will just go away and we can just be friends. That's what he's hoping and then he could just move in with Charlie. But he knows deep down. And the way that you're operating, you're not talking to Charlie at your Memorial Day party about going out sometime. You're showing interest, you're flirting, but you're still flirting with Sally. You're still weighing your options to see. And if Charlie wasn't showing interest in you, then you could just fall back on Sally. We know what you're doing.

But I know also how you're going to paint it to the rest of the cast, to the general public watching this. You're going to spin it like, well, I never really had interest in Sally to begin with. It was just fun hanging out with her. We never hooked up.

You didn't hook up because you're a pussy. That's why you didn't hook up. And you couldn't bite the bullet. And I get that maybe... And then you blame her. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, here's the thing, guys,

because I've looked at socials today. And I'm not getting into the Craig stuff yet. We're going to save that for when it starts to pop off so there's more context. But here's the thing. When it comes to this kind of stuff, this is our wheelhouse. This is where we get to step up and speak out because we know exactly what Craig Word

is doing. To the T, I've seen dudes do this. I know dudes that still do this. And just because they didn't hook up, that was still 100% a fuck boy move. And I'll tell you exactly why in about 10 to 15. So you guys buckle up. And I'll explain to you how that kind of fuck boy operates because that's a power thing. and it's kind of weird and gross.

But we'll get there. We will get there. Anyway, Madison, unpacking the house. Not before Sally says, am I going to regret getting these chickens? I wish she didn't say that. Yeah, please don't. Then I'm starting to feel bad for the chickens.

Here's what I think's going to happen. I think this is going to be like an important moment in her life where she really focuses on herself and the chickens are going to be a big part of that. And then she's going to have so much to offer the next person. Yeah. Yeah, I think this is going to be a good nurturing phase for her. And we kind of see that too when she goes to the ultrasound with Madison.

That was when I wants to be a mom. I'm like fully team Sally. I'm like, Jesus, I'm such a dick for misreading this whole thing. Yeah, honestly. And we really just thought that she was fucking around with no regard for anybody else. In reality, it's like, oh, I see something here. He seems like a stable person. He wants to be in a relationship.

I wouldn't be in a relationship. This is working. It wasn't working, but she didn't see it. Because Craig's a dick. Yeah. And also, the other layer to this is the conversation that they, showed with Vanita and Sally last week, if a friend is sitting there

trying to tell you what to do in your love life, you're almost always going to say, fuck you, I'm going to figure this out for myself. It's how you handle it afterwards. Correct. And Sally seems to be handling it fine. Vanita on the other hand, not so good. And we'll get to that too. Just to comment

on it quickly, her getting smoked by Craig is enough. You do not have to have the I told you so moment. No. Craig did it for you. A real friend wouldn't want the guy told you some moment. It would just be a, all right.

Yeah, I knew this was going to happen. But like, come on in. Bring it on in. Tell us everything. You want to talk shit? You want to go egg his house? Let's go egg his house. Let's go figure this one out.

That's what a friend does. Not what happens later. But either way, I just, I feel bad for Sally. So maybe this is going to be a chicken nurturing moment. It's going to bring her closer to that homestead life that she wants. She did say that she wanted chickens regardless. She said that when Craig brought him up. but that doesn't matter.

She wanted animals. She did one farm. Yeah, you got to start somewhere, you know? I don't know. No, we're team Sally all the way.

But Madison's unpacking her house and you get the professional organizers over there. And this scene just sets up, the Sally theme later, the Sally scene later. She sounds like, oh, I can't do it. Damn it.

Oh, yeah, Carmen, bitch. No, but what this actually did, I didn't know that Madison and Sally were that close. I knew they hung out sometimes, but later Sally even says she's kind of like a big sister to. I wasn't aware that they were that tight. No, there were a lot of scenes last year where the two of them were hanging out,

but I do think the Madison has really just stepped into that role. Eternal role. She's got that maternal role. She's got that Cameron role from the beginning of Southern Charm where she just kind of operates where everybody likes her. Yeah. And she tends to like everybody and she's going to hear everybody out. She still has that shady side where she's going to spill some tea here and there

because she feels like they're not doing it fast enough, which is also fine. Keeps the storyline moving. keeps the show moving, and that's what we want. So for Madison to sit here and just kind of pick it out, and she knows what's going on. She understands she's probably already talked to Vanita about what's going on with Sally. She's got her ear to the ground. She understands it's kind of coming to a head probably, or at least sooner rather than later.

Let me go see what Sally's up to. And as we know, Brett's out of town anyway. So she does want to go with somebody. So why not pick Sally? Yeah, no, I like the move. I just, I wasn't aware that it was that because that's somebody you're close with. If you're going to let their baby inside of you. Yeah.

So what's that? No, I say what I said. Go look at your baby inside of you. That's what they do. Oh, wow. Wow, what a fall from grace. That guy. Oh, boy.

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Kingdoms were reduced to cinders, an army scattered like bones in the dust. Now the survivors claw to what's left of a broken world, praying the darkness chooses someone else tonight. But in the shadow dark, the darkness always wins. This is old school adventuring at its most cruel. Your torch ticks down in real time. And when that flame dies, something else rises to finish the job. This is a brutal rules-light nightmare with a story that emerges organically based on the decisions that the characters make. This is what it felt like to play RPGs in the 80s, and man, it is so good to be back.

Join the Glass Cannon podcast as we plunge into the Shadow Dark every Thursday night at 8 p.m. Eastern on YouTube.com slash the Glass Cannon with the podcast version dropping the next day. See what everybody's talking about and join us in the dark. Of the Regency era, you might know it as the time when Bridgeton takes place, or it's the time when Jane Austen wrote her books. The Regency era was also an explosive time of social change, sex scandals, and maybe the worst king in British history. Vulgar history's new season is all about the Regency era, the balls, the gowns, and all the scandal. Listen to Vulgar History, Regency era, wherever you get podcasts. Let's go to Wittner and Austin at the bar. And Austin has, he's completed the transformation.

He's a full cat person now. and you can tell because he brought up he talked about the dog so that Wittner would talk about so he could say that I'm a cat person which is fine and he shows the cats and he's like oh don't get me started blah blah blah blah it was actually kind of cute

but anyway this is about Craig and Wittner's asking like how's everything going it's like well we had that sit down the other day that went okay but every apology ended with and I'm sorry but I can't get a read on Wittner I thought I could

I think I have a read on him He wants to be Craig's buddy. No, I don't think he wants to be Craig's buddy. I think he wants to be everybody's buddy. And I think he's trying to feel it out because I do... Misreading it, though. I see him on socials. He seems like a great guy.

I think he is a good dude. I like Wittner. Yeah, I don't think he's playing both sides of the fence here. I really don't. And what he does is by talking to Austin about this without Craig, by talking to Craig prior to Patricia's party with just Craig without Austin, he's getting a good perspective. And he's doing the yes-man bullshit.

but I think that's just more of like get it all out. Like I want to hear your actual thoughts so I'm going to agree with you the whole time so that you keep going. Not in like a malicious way, but he's just trying to kind of get the lay of the land because he doesn't really know

the ins and outs of Austin and Craig's relationship and their friendship. So I think he's trying to have both of them just tell the whole story, tell me everything that you feel. And I think he's perceptive enough to move forward with that. Like, okay, I hear what Austin's saying,

I hear what Craig's saying. And he goes from this conversation to, you know, night later where he doesn't divulge the information that Austin told him. Like Austin, the tone of what Austin was saying was exactly that. There's a lot of conversations. There's a lot of apologies.

And there's a lot of butts in the middle of it. And, you know, I just can't keep doing the song and dance with Craig. So I'm going to take it one step at a time. When he talks to Craig later, he's like, yeah, I heard that you and Austin spoke. And like, it seems like you guys kind of cleared the air. And Craig immediately just jumps at it. Like, yeah, everything's good. Like me and Austin are great, which, you know, changes things.

down. But he doesn't tell him, like, dude, the tone was weird. Like, Austin's not fully bought in because that's not his place. So if he had jumped the gun on that, I would have had what you just said, he wants to be buddies with Craig. Okay. I think he's just trying to assess the situation. Maybe I'm just a little sensitive to like, he's a newbie. He's got the victim complex.

I was like, what? Yeah. I think the weird thing about Wittner that I'm like, you do need to get over this is your fiancee leaving you like four years ago. Yeah. You got to get over it. No, I'm not. even say, like, there's no timeline, but don't project it.

Right, right. It's not projecting, Wittner. Nah, get over it. Move on, buddy. You've got a great life. You've got a great dog. You bike to work. You do bike to work.

You're a catch. Go, get out there in the dating pool. But it is nice that Austin has another friend that's not Craig. And I do like that Wittner said, you know, because Austin can talk to me without feeling like he's being lectured. So, Wittner, I guess you're right. He does, the victim thing, I was like, whoa. But I guess you're right.

He also calls Craig a narcissist. or has narcissistic tendencies. So I guess he is getting a decent read. Because Austin, that's the thing, though. It's not victim complex if you are a victim. Because I do see that he's gotten burnt by Craig. I don't know if there's any other way to look at it. They've burnt each other.

I mean, if we're really doing old history here. Yeah, if we're just doing this season, it's hard to be on Craig's side and be like, Austin's being a huge dick. Yeah. He's making offhanded comments here and there because he's annoyed by Craig. Yeah. That's really all.

And that's been going on, by the way, for like six years. Right. It's not really much different than what we've seen, and he's not going overboard. Craig is going overboard. Thank you. I agree. Now we get to quite the crew here. We have Vanita, Leva, Rod, and Molly, which I love this duo.

Yeah. Double duo. I was going to say foursome, and then it felt weird. No, foursome works. Okay. It's like a golf thing. All right, cool. You got this foursome.

It's a great crew. And now, of course, the Sally Craig situation. comes up and there used to be a little workout crew. Rod tapped out because he got lazy. That's his words, not mine. Molly's still going and Sally was going. And then she stopped going. And the reason is because those late nights at Crikes.

Yeah. Okay. So that's when Levin chimes in that Sally's not a quote unquote girl's girl and never was a quote unquote girl's girl. That's fine. And I don't know that not being a girl's girl means you're a bad person. Maybe she just doesn't vibe that way with the ladies. I don't really know.

I don't think we've seen enough of Sally yet to make that decision. No, but I mean, Charleston being as small as it is, I do think she's probably still paying for her quote unquote sins from years ago. Probably. We know her from Joe Bradley. We know her from Shep. Like, she's made her way around dating or hooking up with random guys in Charleston that they all know. So I'm not really bashing Lev's assessment of that.

It's just we're watching her confessionals. we're seeing her inner monologue. She's talking about moving forward, trying to settle down, what she really wants in life. And I feel like she's not as open about those things with these other women who she's not really that close with. That's my point, Frank. Right. I don't feel like she has any close-knit friends. Like her and Venita were the closest, and they just buddied up like months ago.

Right. And if you were to ask that question, I'm assuming because they were buddy-buddy months ago, Sally probably did have that conversation with Vanita about wanting to settle down and wanting to just like find somebody in date realistically. But Vanita's not going to talk about that right now. Yeah. Because she's mad at her for hanging out with Craig. Because she feels in a weird way that she's hanging out with Craig vindictively to get

back at Vanita or to just like, hey, you know, you can't tell me what to do. I'm going to hang out with who I'm going to hang out with. I don't care about our friendship. That's where Vanita is. So she's not going to speak up and be like, ah, she is actually somewhat of a girl's girl. It's just, you know, she's figuring out her way is how I would label it. That's what I see as well.

And like with Vanita taking her personally, you know, this was an, interesting shift this episode because we've we've always rallied for vanita and getting more screen time and things like that this has gone to a level of personal that like you know sally's not taken a shot at you by doing this you have every right to feel some type of way about it because of your relationship with craig yeah but we talked about before where it's like after a certain point you have to just let her go find out that was last week and we're like yeah let her go she's going to get smoked. We all know it. You know it. And then be there to pick up the pieces afterwards. But she's trying to frame it differently where it's like she doesn't care about me

at all. And for her to bring up J.T. as being a reason for that, it's like, okay, well, in all fairness, how was Sally when you were with J.T? Because J.T. was a dick to Sally in front of you and all of us. We saw that shit at his weird Airbnb thing that definitely never panned out. And he definitely had to sell it for a loss. But Sally never went to Vanita and made her feel awful for hooking up with JT, who clearly didn't like Sally, who was pretty much slut-shaming her because she had hooked up with somebody else. Yeah. Not to mention JT was also dating somebody the entire season while talking to Benita.

Right. I'm sure Sally had multitudes of opportunities. to step in there and be like, are you sure you want to do this and didn't? Right. Because you're an adult and she's going to let you make your own decisions and then live with it. And then when you're done, she'll be there to help pick up the pieces, which is what you should be doing. Yeah. But to then do this, and I think this is utter bullshit, too.

Vanita, we've been at the forefront of, I still believe this, by the way, give her more screen time. Definitely. Just so we can get a better assessment because we do think that she was getting shafted by the last producers. She was. There was not enough there. She broke up with her boyfriend. in the beginning of last season, we saw a snippet of it. It seems like an emotional scene that they could have given us more of.

But more than that, we don't really know what's going on with Venita. We don't really know what kind of person she is. We just have to take, like, her socials and the stories that we hear from other people and the minimal scenes that we get of Vanita to make an assessment of who she is. The more that we get, the more that we're going to understand, and we're either going to like her or dislike her. I still think she can be so good for the show. I think she still is good for the show.

Because she's apparently bad shit crazy. like just putting it mildly. Like this is what she did in this episode. It's like, holy shit. This is awesome. It's great for TV. Don't stop doing this because this is what this show needs. But also, where the hell are you getting off, buddy?

It was weird when we get to that scene later. Just I don't know what happened there. Where, like, that didn't need to go the way it did. Well, I'll save it. Well, the trauma dumps, like, sad story. I had a best friend in high school who, you know, just up and, left and I never saw her again.

Honestly, if she left it, whatever. My thing wasn't that one. That one, I was like, all right. The JT comparison. That was when I was like, dude. That's tone deaf. Right, because it's the same situation that you're doing to her, but she handled it much better than you did.

So that's a weird thing to bring up. Also, we told you on this podcast specifically, get as far away as possible from JT. Yeah. And you didn't. So you're not getting any sympathy for me for that one. You did that to yourself. Yeah. And to put the cross.

crosshairs on herself like that was just interesting because I don't think that she thought that one through me like and then JT left it's like yeah and Sally was still there yeah hello like anyway we get to Sally chicken shopping with Craig uh oh this scene this was tough I felt for Sally because I respect the hell out of her it's been long enough let's rip this fucking band-aid off I'm here purchasing farm animals right now in an attempt to connect with you, dude. So I'm just going to rip this bandit off. Hey, I'm catching feelings.

Somehow in letting her down easy, it still came off rude. I thought he's like, oh, no, we're just friends. Like, I don't see it, really. Yeah. Yeah, no, he completely downplayed everything that she was saying and then ignored her emotions. Yeah. Where I just, I don't really understand it. I, there was a romantic spark there at one point.

We see the text messages. You could have stayed over if you wanted to. That only means one thing. I don't care what you're going to spin that into. It only means one thing. And I feel like this was really hard for Sally to do. I feel like this is probably the first time in her life that she's had to wait this long and then try to force this in. Like, hey, I've got feelings.

Are we doing anything here? Like, I feel like I'm going crazy because you're not making a move and nothing's really happening. And I don't want this moment to pass. And instead, it's like, nah, we're friends. High five? That's literally he wanted like a fist bump. Yeah. And it's bizarre to me.

It's like, at the very least, I don't care if you did identify each other as friends. Like maybe after the first week or so of hanging out, you're like, I'm not really feeling the spark. You don't have to tell her, I'm not feeling the spark. Maybe don't invite her over late night if it's just the two of you guys. If there's a whole group of people, fine, that's okay. But if it's just the two of you guys probably shouldn't be doing that. We don't know for sure that that's what was going on. But I suspect at least a couple of times that it was just the two of you guys hanging out in your hot tub.

We all know what that means. And you weren't making a move. that's not enough to then quell her emotions and be like, oh, yeah, okay, sure. And if she's coming to you hat and hands, like, hey, I have, I've caught feelings. I've got emotions towards you. I think that maybe we should start dating. You don't just say, what are you talking about? Like, we're friends, buddy?

Yeah, yes, exactly. Hell? We're friends, dude. Like rubber on the head or something. Like a pat, fist bump and let's get out of these chickens, huh? Yeah. I'm going to go hit up Charlie, but let me know if you need a chicken help. That's the other thing is, like, you.

know we give Craig a lot of shit and I don't think he's that smart but like there's a very basic level of intelligence here you know what you're doing with Charlie, you're sneaking around you're trying not to upset Sally so you know she has emotions for you. You're hoping they just go away and they're

not going away because you're inviting her over to go to the hot tub. So this is your fault. You do need to do a better job at this point. Again, if you have no emotions towards Sally and you really have been feeling this way for a couple of weeks, you should have told her. Have a longer conversation. Yeah, at the very at least. Just be like, hey, yeah, I mean, I was kind of hoping that this would kind of go away,

but, like, I'm just not really feeling it. And like, I'm sorry. I didn't want to lead you on. I didn't want to give you mixed signals or anything, even though he was. But, like, at least have the conversation, be like, I didn't want to do that. At least have the conversation and tell her, like, I didn't mean to do that. I didn't want to do that. I was hoping that we could just be friends. I'm sorry, I led you on. I'm sorry that it's gotten to this point. Like, anything at all, any sort of apology would have probably gone a long way. Ownership. Something that acknowledges. talk about with chat GPT would probably be helpful here. I don't know.

And instead, it's just, it's such a weird black and white, like, no, like, I'm not, we're friends. What are you nuts? I was hoping we could just continue to be friends. It's like, you're using her in a weird way. Exactly. And we can talk about it now. We're not fully there.

But he says something that simply must be addressed. This doesn't meet the threshold of leading anyone on. My guy, if you have to say those words out. loud to try to convince yourself then you know damn well it went too far what is the threshold the threshold there is no threshold it's about the situation and if we look at this situation hanging out in a hot tub of somebody repeatedly over the course of a month is leading them on four o'clock in the fucking morning when you send a text that says hey you could have stayed you are throwing things out there if we go chronologically from when that text happened yes you could have stayed and then she took every

opportunity she could to get back in that hot tub with you multiple times throughout that month. What do you think she was thinking, Craig? But that's the thing. You're not the dumbest dude in the world so you know exactly what she was thinking. And you loved the idea of Charlie and Sally both being there and knowing that if you wanted to, you could hook up with one of them. If you wanted to take that step, but you want to hide behind the fact that you're not ready to take that step. You're not that kind of guy. you get this weird rush out of leading them on, this weird rush of being a fuck boy without the fucking part, but that does not absolve you from emotionally leading them on and emotionally

crushing this girl because you know damn well, dude, you knew the whole time because you texted her back that you could have stayed. You cannot fall back now and say, oh, after week two, I just thought we were for, no, you loved, loved the idea of being able to say, hey, come sit in my hot tub with me. And I know if I make a move, I know you'll do it back, but I'm not going to. But also just being like after week two, okay, what about those first two weeks? That's a long time. Sure. Two full weeks of hanging out in person. It's not like this was like a weird one night stands where you guys didn't really like maybe you made out, but like you didn't do too much. And then you kind of move forward and you're like, yeah, and we were both pretty drunk. I do want to be friends. You don't have to have that conversation. That doesn't really have to happen. If it was one like weekend long of like exchanged messages and you guys were.

flirting or something. It's like, okay, yeah, that's okay, but then you move on. You were doing this for a very long period of time, way too long. If you're texting a single person daily, daily, hanging out with them multiple times a week, talking about making improvements, quote, unquote, to their life, life-changing things like buying animals. Yeah. Then you know, dude, there's no way that you are up your own, actually with Craig, he might be up his own ass so far that he doesn't realize it, but I'm not going to give him that out. You should have at some point been a grown-up, and done something better than this. Because just because you're fucking crushed

doesn't mean you get to go around crushing people. Because Sally, did she go a little far? Sure, it was a little strong, kind of. But now we know why. She saw something in you, Craig, that resonated with her like, ooh, we're on the same timeline. Let's fucking do this. And then every time she probably started to question it,

you probably text her to comes hang on the hot tub. Yeah. So now she's getting mixed signals and she has the balls to bring that to you. which I respect the hell out of her for that. And even you could have faked this one. Oh my gosh, you know what? I'm so sorry.

I don't feel the same way, but I'm sorry if I led you on with like the texts or the hot tub. Like I didn't expect this to happen this way. I would love to be friends with you. But if we can't be friends, I understand. Take account of, take ownership of the situation. So she doesn't feel crazy. Yeah.

She's already smoked. She's already sad. She's already going to have to face Vanita, face Charle. figure all this shit out, figure out a next step forward, he's embarrassed. Take some of that off of her. If you are a quote unquote friend, the least you could do is be like, here, you don't have to have that much shame. Like, it's not your fault at all.

It's my fault for being a fuckboy. Yeah. Because fuck boy does not mean you're just trying to get laid. Fuck boy can be emotional terrorism. It can be all sorts of things. That's what he's doing. So anybody out there that's like going on Twitter, going on Instagram saying he didn't lead her on, they didn't even hook. There's so much more to it than that.

and he knew what he was doing playing with her emotions because he got a rise out of it. He liked that feeling. I know dudes like this. They text 40 chicks at the same time. They don't hook up with any of them. They ask him for little things here and there to make sure they know if they wanted to.

It's the gratification. And that's the other thing is you can't, he can't even claim ignorance. Like, the most ignorant person on Bravo or reality TV. Shep couldn't. Could claim ignorance. I don't think anybody can claim ignorance at this point. It's been going on for too long.

Oh, that's a, yeah. It's been going on for way too long. And the other part is, if you're going to say, you know, Sally didn't make her intentions clear. That's bullshit, too. Got it. She very clearly had puppy dog guys for him since day one

and continued those puppy dog guys and little comments here and there and flirtatious behavior for weeks. That's enough. Yep. That is enough. I mean, that's showing your feelings instead of just stating them.

And I feel like after this episode, it's just so very clear that it's clearly on Craig. The Sally stuff is clearly on Craig. Yes. However, the Charlie stuff. is now on Charlie. Fully on Charlie. Unfortunately, that has gotten out of hand.

That last scene completely shifted it. Well, again, and this is what happens when we get a goddamn timeline. When we get a timeline and somebody drops, it's been going on for a month, then we know at least maybe somewhere around a week later, Charlie gets introduced, so that's three weeks.

Yeah, we start backtracking quick. Yeah, we've got at least three weeks of Charlie and Craig having secret meetups at her gallery talking about this, talking about that, planning a date to the oyster farm. This is fully on Charlie now. And look, if you don't want to be friends, I think we said this originally, if you don't want to be friends with Sally and you're not worried about her feelings, fine.

I've no skin in the game. I don't fucking give a shit. But you can't claim, like, I was too afraid to tell you, or, like, you're in a really bad spot. This is worse than, way, far worse than the Vanita Sally of it all. This is, you have, you have, this is worse than Craig leading on Sally for a month. It's very close. Yeah.

very close. I still think Craig's worse. Well, that's just because we're dudes and we just watch it and we're like, come on. Like, I'm not saying cut her off, but at least like say, do a couple of things that just show that you're interested in friendship. Yeah. Which he clearly hasn't done. No. And like that's, that's the unique perspective, like us watching this. It's like everything that he does. We're like, oh, yeah, I know what he's doing. Like, I don't, it doesn't take me more than a split second to register. Like, oh, yeah, you fuck her. Yeah. So, yeah, Charlie has put herself in a bad spot unintentional i will say that this is an unintentional fuck up but she has backed herself into a corner here because but then it goes back on craig because now craig's shown his

hand he's shown who he is and charlie knows that and that's when it goes back on charlie because it's like hey he just fucking steel rolled her the way that this plays out especially with being on a tv show like this where everybody is very inside each other's business i he's not going to get either of them. He should not. He really shouldn't get either of them because it's just too polarizing. You have to realize after all of the things that just happened and at the end of this episode, everybody knows what's going on. If you end up dating Craig after all of this, you're going to look like a fucking idiotic. You're the rebound now. Correct. Sally was in line to be the rebound. Never was. Shifted focus when you popped in.

It's just so funny too because when it started, we're like, yeah, I mean, I get it. Like, Charlie, feel it out. See if there's anything there. And then deal with the whole Sally situation. I didn't know how long it had been. It's been, let's call that a month as well. It's like, okay, you've known that this was going on. There's a lot of confessionals about you talking about dating Craig and not bringing it up to Sally. Like you, you said Sally just as much as you said Craig. There's a big issue there. Yeah. So the onus goes back on to Charlie, which is like, and this is also what happens. Craig will end up skating out of this without dating either of them. Nobody's really going to hold him accountable. They might be mad. Sally and, you know, maybe

Molly. I don't know, Rod and Austin are going to hold that group accountable. They're not going to have that. Oh, dude. That was just Austin at the end of the episode. It would be like, Austin. I know.

Austin, what are you doing, buddy? Rod jumped in. Rod jumping in with the haymaker is like, okay, that's good. That is a verifiable source. Blacked out Rod. I loved it. I can't wait to get there.

But yeah, let's, uh... I got a message. We got a message him. Yeah. Hey, man, what happened? Did you watch last night? What happened, buddy? Came out of nowhere, huh? Oh, boy. Jesus.

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and is just as entertaining for grownups who love a good mystery. The whole family can listen now wherever you get your podcasts. From the darkest corners of our imagination comes a game show that's more ridiculous than terrifying. Welcome to Tickled to Death. I'm your first. host, Roz Hernandez, and I'll be guiding guests through the creepy questions and chaotic games, all to win the ultimate title of horror movie champion. Listen to Tickle to Death, wherever you get

your podcasts, and hit follow unless you want the show to follow you. I'm Andy, and I'm Melissa, and this is Moms and Mysteries. We're two Florida moms obsessed with true crime, from infamous cases like Ellen Greenberg to shocking Florida stories like the Dan Markell killing. With 55 million downloads, we bring you new deep dives every Tuesday and Thursday. Listen to Moms and Mysteries on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Now, speaking of Charlie, we get to Charlie FaceTiming her mom. And mom, look, I get what mom's saying. I don't disagree with mom because she also has no real skin in the game but Charlie.

So she's like, look, I get that you're her friend. but at the same time, like, you're an individual. You've got to do what you got to do. Two weeks ago, we would have agreed. But because we're at this point now, and because we have seen, oh, so many confessionals with Charlie and oh, so many conversations with Charlie and her mom about her talking about how this is going to affect Sally,

you should have talked to Sally by now. It could have been a situation up until the oyster farm date. Yes. Right when that happens. Like before then, it's like, it's excused. Sure. You're not really sure what's going on. You haven't really heard anything. Craig is saying that him and Sally are friends. Sally's still very clearly into Craig in some way, but you're not talking to her about it as much. So you're just kind of feeling it out. But once that happens, once he says you and I should go to this oyster farm together and you even make the comment, is this a date, then you say, okay, this is real? Let me check in with Sally. Yes. Hey, I don't know what's going on with you and Craig, but like I've been seeing him.

He pops up every once in and all. He was at my gallery. It's not like you have control over whether Craig can come in and out. He was there and he invited me to the Soister Farm. It seems like a fucking date. Where are you guys? I don't know. I don't want to step on anybody's toes, but I just wanted to make sure that everything was clear.

Then you'll get the lay at the lens. Then you'll understand where you are. If Sally pops off at you, it's still not really your fault because you gave her a heads up because something concrete is now delivered to you. Right. A date is delivered to you. you ask Sally, it should be okay on your act. Well, there could be fallout, but you can come back from that.

For sure. But being secret and then seeing the worry on her face as she's talking to her mom to, it's like, whoa. You know, you understand the gravity of this situation. You can't wait till the end of the party. You do it at the beginning. As soon as Sally walks in, you grab her and go, hey, we got to talk. Yep. Because if you don't, then this happens, and now you're fucked.

You're up Schitt's Creek without a paddle. Yeah. We're not there yet. But yeah, that's just tough, man. It's tough. So she does tell mom that she's going to tell her tonight at this sleepover with Madison. So we know how that goes. But let's get to Madison's ultrasound.

And I was already shifting towards Team Sally. This was the last thing I needed to see to be full-blown team Sally. Because everything she's saying to Madison then brings back up the fact that she was engaged. That all fell apart. So she had this whole plan. She wants to be married. She wants to have kids. She wants to settle down.

She wants X, Y, and Z. And she wants it now because she thought she was going to have it. So everything, all of the behavior, all of the shit that she was doing, it all lines up and it all makes sense. It's like, oh, you were just trying to push this faster because you thought you found somebody that would do the same thing. That's what happened. Yeah. So you're not crazy. No, this gave us so much more perspective on that.

Yeah. And it made me feel so bad for it. I'm like, fuck, that sucks because she's like, you know, I don't even have somebody I can drunk. text right now. In a way, she's in a very similar position as Wittner and as Craig. Yeah. She thought that she had her whole life, yeah, obviously there's a couple of years removed there. She's more in line with what Wittner was. But she had her whole life planned out. She hit a speed bump. She got thrown. She's figuring shit out. She spent a couple of years figuring shit out. She thought she actually had something. This wasn't, this was like the final nail in the

coffin for, oh, she's just dicking around and she doesn't care about anybody else's feelings. No, she was actually putting her feelings first. Which is okay. Which is completely fine and she thought she had something and she was being pushed into that by somebody who never wanted that in the first place. So that's why you feel bad for Sally. Yep. 100% well said. And of course Madison, she's already got to read on it. Like it doesn't take her no, she knows it's going on. Yeah. She's like, oh, you know, he's playing clueless. He's going to be the nice Southern boy and that's exactly what he's trying to do. But Madison knows this group better than everybody. She knows the dudes better than anybody. And she's,

she reads it for what it is. And I cannot wait. I really hope it happens. I really hope it happens. For Craig to overstep. Yep. Do too much. And Madison drop the fucking hammer and be like, no, no, no. This is what she did. Yeah. I guess, look, you could say maybe she won't do it because she's pregnant. I think she's more likely to do it because she's pregnant. I think that I don't know. It depends on how the rest of this, because it gets cut off at the end of the episode, the rest of her sleepover is probably going to be very uh uh is it's going to indicate how she's going to move but you know what she does she's she's not really talking she's sitting there she's filing things away mm-hmm oh what did you say okay got it got it what then what did you say would be surprised if she already knew that craig ass ell probably or uh charlie out i thought she did didn't she know no no i don't think so i guess not

to that party someone told her yeah okay yeah so she's just filing things away for later to uh tear craig a new asshole which is this is going to be nice but let's get to boys night girls night Okay, so the dudes are going, the bar looked awesome. Yeah. That looked like a really cool ball. When we go to Charleston, we got to check that place out. Definitely. Craig arrives first, and like you said, Wittner does a good job of setting it up so that there's no tension.

He's like, yeah, I saw Austin. He says, you guys are in a good place. And he's like, yeah, we made up entirely. We're totally fine. Everything's great. We're going to be awesome. Whoa. Breathe.

And it's so funny because it's just copy and paste of every fight that they've ever had. And again, this is what we keep talking about, where it's Craig on this trajectory. of like, wow, he's becoming a better person. Oh, Paige dumped him up. Nope, he's right back to where he is. Austin has been, like, steadily climbing the maturity level, and he's surpassed Craig. Yeah, fully surpassed Craig.

I agree. And you can see this because they've gone through this, and it's a cycle that just completely rolls through and rolls through and rolls through, and it affects Austin way more than it affects Craig. I don't think that Craig would be that bad if he wasn't friends with Austin anymore, but I think Austin's having a really hard time and has been having a really hard time coming to grips with where his friendship with Craig is going to end. up. Yeah. And I think he's finally wrapping his head around the fact that like, maybe I don't

need Craig because at least I'll spare myself some pain. I think he's really invested in it. I think that something you said is exactly what it is. I think there's worry that I don't know if success is the right word. I don't know what the word is, but he's worried about losing something by losing Craig. Correct. That his life will alter if Craig's out of the picture, that maybe his success on the show and in life is tied to Craig in some way, shape, or form. I think he's getting to the point now, like you said, where actually Craig's a detriment to all those things. Right.

And it could be a situation where it's like, why did I go through all of this just to not be friends with him at the end of the day? Yeah. It's been years and years of this. So getting that, obviously, we had the conversation with Wittner and Austin earlier in the episode where it's like, okay, that's what I want to hear from Austin because he's sticking to his guns. He said the same thing.

He was talking to Audrey before Patricia's party. He said the same thing. to Craig afterwards, like if you do this again, I'm done. I can't do this anymore. Lo and behold, he's very close to it. I don't think that Craig necessarily snaps at him, but he does a typical Craig thing. So Craig walking in and immediately saying everything's fine, it just tells us everything that we need to know.

Exactly. And Wittner brings up Sally. I didn't know this either because they don't show scenes. Yeah, this is what I was talking about earlier. Yeah. So Austin has been hanging out with Sally one-on-one. one-on-one. They went to high times

or whatever that was, high-tie, I don't know. It's at the gym, but... Is that the gym? Uh-huh. Okay, so... But it's also interesting, too, because if you use a piece of information

we got earlier in the episode, Sally stopped going to the gym with Rod, Molly, and whoever the fourth person was. Oh, because she wanted to flirt with Austin. And maybe she's going with Austin now, and that would make more sense. And Craig, we're really putting this whole thing together.

And Austin likes the attention from Sally. He likes the attention from Sally. But Craig said early, but Craig said early. earlier in the season, I go to the gym during the day for a few hours. Austin goes at night and walks. Is Austin going at night with Sally? Is Sally going with Austin at night? Not going out with her normal crew.

And they're saying, oh, it's because she's at the hot tub. In reality, she's, and I don't think anything necessarily nefarious is going on there. I don't think he's cheating on her. No, but we do know that Sally said multiple times and doubled down and watch what happens live, that she'd be next in line. She didn't say specifically Austin, but, I mean, we're getting to that point in the season where him and Audrey you're going to break up. She flat out said if Austin.

No, I know that. But I'll watch what happens live. She said, if you thought I was going after Craig Hard, just wait till you see the rest of this season. And it was after the Austin comment, but she didn't say I was going after Austin. So it'll be interesting to see all that plays out. Oh, it doesn't matter to me.

Yeah, that's what he's doing. This was a little secretive. He's liking the attention. He's going to paint it as a friendship. Not great. Dude, not great. We're trying to sing your praises. But that's where he's on this trajectory.

trajectory, and I'm not, this is not an excuse. Like, he shouldn't be doing that. He's slowly going up. It's stuff like this where he goes, beep, and I'll hopefully come back up from it. But yeah, that's not great. Not great, not a great look. But the way Craig takes it is not,

oh, he's hanging out with Sally behind Audrey's back. He takes it as. And a big part of me is like, oh, he's going to want to get with Sally now. Once he heard this, I was like, he probably is going to go back to Sally and try to hook up now because he feels impeded upon. because that's what this whole thing's about.

He has the power of this weird love triangle that's going on. Which, wait, now it makes sense, the love trapezoid, because then Austin's probably going to get involved with Sally, and then Craig's going to get jealous, and then all of a sudden he's going to like Sally again. Well, lo and behold, bet me, everybody, bet me that that's the timeline that we end up going down. But we flash over to Girls Night,

and I love that we get Madison's pajamas on display because we haven't gotten any of the girls' products, throughout the years. It's time that they started highlighting their shit, too. We have not seen Tropop. We have not seen sewing down south, but we've seen Madison's pajamas. We were at their restaurant last week, and we didn't get that big introduction. Good.

Yeah. Yeah, no, I'm here for it. So I'm glad that she finally got to show off her product. And Molly and Vanita arrived first, and Sally comes up, of course. And tough look here, because they let slip that Craig said. I just want to be friends. And Sally's shit-eaten grin. You actually, you know what?

I don't falter as much here. You can smile now. I take that back. She can smile the way she's smiling. Yeah. Okay. At this whole thing because Sally's not there. Right.

If you want to have your I told you so moment right now, this is the time. To soak it in and be like, I fucking knew it. You could say, yeah. Who didn't see this one coming? I did. Get it out right now. So you don't do it later. Yeah.

Yeah. That would have been the right move. And the question comes up. Does he like Charlie? It's like, yeah, and that leads us right back into Boys Night, where the oyster date with Charlie comes up. And Austin's like, oh, like a date? And he's like, no, God, what?

No, no, date. Absolutely not. I don't know if it really is because Austin says, you know, he has to have like bibliography and annotated this and that before he makes a move. Yeah. I don't know if it was that or now I'm thinking because of the Sally thing, it's like, oh, you just want to keep labels off of it. So if you bail, it doesn't make you look like a dick.

I think that's probably what he's trying to do. He's trying to wade into those waters of if I don't label anything as a date or us hang, if I just keep saying, yeah, we're hanging out. Or maybe I invite a third person along. Like, if I have Corey come with us, then it's really not a date and I can kind of keep the heat off of my back until I figure out this whole thing. I do weirdly think that it's more that than it is. I need to try to keep this not a date so that it doesn't piss off Sally.

In a weird way, which, again, goes against most of the things that we've been saying. But for this instance, it does make more sense what Austin said. Well, no, it actually gives everything we said more credence, because why are you worried about Sally's feelings if there were no feelings there? Right. If you're concerned about hurting them now, but you said that there was... But I don't think he's worried about Sally's feelings when he's not labeling it as a date. Oh, I don't think that in his mind, I think if he labels at a date, it's more of a detriment to himself. And Charlie.

And Charlie and their future together than it is for Sally's emotions. I agree. Like, I don't think he's hiding the date aspect. from Sally to not piss her all. We're on the same page. I thought you said something. I agree. No, this is 100% self-serving.

Yeah. Yeah, agreed. Now, everybody arrives to Ladies' Night. We got Charlie, we got Sally, potential friend of Lauren. Or she just to pop in, maybe? I think it's just Madison's friend, yeah. Okay. And Sally looks defeated.

She walks in, she's like, pour me something strong. I'm going to go get changed. And Charlie feels weird and nervous. And in her confessional, she's like, I'm not like asking for permission. No, you're not. It's more of a heads up. Something, yeah, just helping out a friend because you know this is going to be bad. But man, you got to grab her right then.

Yeah. Because you're leaving too much, too many variables are out there now. Too many people know and she still doesn't know. And you're at a party with people that know. You're just, and I get it. It's actually more for Charlie. Like, do this for yourself. Yeah, so you're going to be in a worse position.

And we already know how nervous you are and you say that you're not nervous, but I don't believe you. I watched that conversation with your mom. You were sweating. Literally. Yeah. Telling your mom that. At the end of it, you're cringing. Yeah.

So just get ahead of this for your own good. Please. You don't. Leave us out of it. You don't at all. You do the worst thing. You just don't talk. You just sit there quietly.

So now they think something's wrong. And you haven't addressed it. So we're setting ourselves up for failure. But the whole thing comes up in front of everybody, which I actually liked. And it's like, Sally's. analysis of the situation, she's like, honestly, Vanita was right about Craig, but I'm annoyed. She said, don't come calling when he breaks your heart.

Fair. I don't do friendship like that. That is fair. Because, again, like we said earlier, the denial from Craig is enough. That's going to sting plenty. The extra cherry on top of your I told you so moment, you don't need it. I know you hate Craig. We all know you hate Craig, but you don't have to go at your friends like that.

You think that it's so personal. Like she's doing this to hurt you for some reason, or she's disregarding your feelings. She's not. She just feels something with Craig. And she thinks maybe deep down that the thing you have going on with Craig isn't that deep. That being said, she could have relayed some of this to Vanita. Fair. She could have along the way, try to do some things here and there.

But again, we now know, especially after this episode, how Vanita is going to react to those things. So if I'm Sally and I'm feeling out the Craig situation, much like how Charlie was feeling out the Craig situation and not telling Sally. If I'm Sally, I'm not going to tell Vanita anything. I'm going to hang out with them. I'm not going to be as dismissive, but I'm not going to tell her every step of the way. Like, hey, I'm hanging out with Craig. I think I've got some feelings.

I'm going to see where this goes. I know you hate them, but like whatever. I don't expect her to do that because that's like sainthood at that point. Like you can't really expect that. But at the same time, that tone of that conversation was so weird. It should have just been Vanita saying, look, you're still my friend. I'm just worried about you because I've seen Craig do this before. This is what I feel.

This is the vibe I'm getting. He's going to cast you aside as soon as something else comes along. And I don't want you to get hurt. Those are the ways to do that. And you can say whatever you want in the middle. But that really should have been the message. And instead the message was, you look like a fucking idiot. And I'm not going to be here when that happens.

I'm going to tell you exactly what's going to happen, which she was right. I'm not going to be here when it all falls apart. I'm not picking up those pieces. Don't give me a call. It's like, you're not a friend. You want her to be a friend to you and avoid Craig at all costs. because you don't like Craig and Craig doesn't like you. But then you get an opportunity to be a good friend and potentially just help her out.

And maybe things play out a little differently. Maybe she starts to see what you're saying if you go at her a little softer. Instead, you decide to just go scorched earth on her. You're like, fuck you. Don't call me after this whole thing falls apart. Of course, Sally's not going to call you after it falls apart. No, and then sitting there a debriefing about the whole thing. Ed Vinito, like, why didn't you call me?

Because you said not to. Yeah. And like, let's not make this into more than a. it has to be. Sally is drinking, I believe, hard liquor at this point. She has been through it today. I'm not saying Vanita that your feelings are not valid. They are. But I would imagine at some point along the way, if you show up for your friend in about a week, maybe less, Sally's going to be like, hey, I should have listened to you. I'm sorry. I treated you a certain way. And maybe she doesn't. If she never brings it up, that's a conversation you can have with her later. Yep. Sitting there,

while she's still putting bandages on after this whole thing and being like, I told yourself, ah, why? Why? She's, dude, she's crushed right now. She's absolutely crushed and she's about to get completely smoked. Just let her be, no? Yeah, no, let her be. And also, I feel like Sally handled this better than I would have, better than I expected

her to, because she didn't go after Vanita and just, like, get in her face and start yelling about it, even though she could have and probably would have. but instead she's like, look, you told me not to call you. I don't know what you want from me. I just talked to him. He let me down like that. It fucking sucks. I feel like shit right now.

So I don't really need the whole song and dance about I told you so. It just isn't how that's going to go. How Vinita turns this into her being the victim is wild to me. You know what? I can't handle this. I'm going home. I've had enough. You don't acknowledge any of my...

Like, why your feelings aren't really involved in this? Not right now, especially. You and Craig have never been friends. and then you said something about him on a podcast. He then returned fire on Watch Robbins Live. Who cares? A normal Bravo spat. Yeah.

But also, you've never been friends. So who gives a shit? It's not like there was a huge emotional falling out where you guys were really close. And then he said something and it's like, whoa, this came out of left field. You don't really respect me. And then you had a huge fight and then Sally tried to date him. That's not what happened. You guys have never been friends.

So I've never really understood why Vanita's taking this strong of a stance. Just avoid Craig. Who gives a shit? Do the nice southern thing. Show up with some towels. And then, you know, talk about it behind his back. Do whatever the hell you want. But to do all of this and then turn yourself into the victim after the whole thing,

when Sally's sitting over there crushed because of what played out that you saw was going to play out. You were right. You were right. That's a win. That's what I thought. You're actually in a position of power. If you still want to be friends with Sally, you sit there and you go, I'm there. Fucking sucks.

I mean, look, it happened, but it fucking sucks. I still feel bad for you. throw in one of those at some point. Instead, it just becomes all about you, which, again, is why I said that Vanita should stay on this screen, because this was an outlandish reaction. It was great. And it was awesome.

Yeah, it's great. I had no issues with it as far as entertainment value goes. I just, I didn't know why in that moment. It's like, oh, here's my I told you so moment that I'm going to leave in a huff. It's like Craig did the damage for you. Yeah. Like, you didn't have to do anything. But at the bar, back with the dudes, Charlie comes up.

You and Charlie got a thing? Oh, fuck no. What? Absolutely not. Every answer, this is what I was talking about earlier. Everything's so absolute and matter of fact. There's no wiggle room for anything, which is what leads me to believe you're a liar. He's in his confessional talking about how injured city is.

How he wants to date her. How he walks over and she just smiles when I talk. I like the way she looks back at me. It's like, dude, you're in love with her. So what it sounds like. Maybe tell your friends that you have some feelings towards her. No? We're not doing that?

Okay. But that opens the door to the whole love triangle situation. and he he this is why I know that he knows more because he's playing this weird middle ground of like I think in the back for mine like Sally thought there was something and like you know but we never hung out one on one and you know the main reason that's so fucked up that you're saying this shit too like just keep this to yourself mm-hmm the other reason I hung out with Sally was to was to hang out with Charlie oh bro then hang out with Charlie and let Sally down three weeks ago yeah like anyone out there defending that he's not a fuck boy listen to

that line right there. That's all you need to hear. It also makes no sense timeline wise because Charlie wasn't there in the beginning. You invited Sally over to your house after Whitney's party, after Patricia's party, or it was actually Madison's baby shower at Patricia's. You invited Sally over. That was a week or so prior to Charlie even coming into the group. And then from there, Charlie didn't really hang out with you guys for a couple more days after that. So there's a full, like, two weeks in my mind there where you were just hanging out with Sally. So you can't say I was only hanging out with Sally to get closer to Charlie. Every time that we hung out, I just made sure that Charlie was there,

and that was my gateway in there. It doesn't make any sense. No, and that also says you're a fuckboy because you're using one woman to get to another one. Yeah. So again, anyone out there that's like, no, you didn't lead. What? What's talking about? Austin points out, you guys hung out every day for like a month.

And Craig lets us know what being a best friend means. Because he's like, be hanging out with somebody for a month doesn't make me best friend. Austin. No shit, bro. You know what he's inferring, right? You're a lawyer, allegedly. Like, you know what he's saying to you. The fact that he's trying so hard to spin everything with semantics,

again tells you he knows what's going on. He's trying to get himself out of the life. Yeah, he knows what he did. 100%. He's just not going to call up to it. Nope. And Austin is well within his right in being anybody there, because they're all friends with these people,

are allowed to bring up the fact that, hey, you might have started some shit. this very well may get in between their friendship. And Craig's like, you can't put that on me. You can't put that on me. Sally's a tornado. She's chaos. Everything that's nearer, she sucks. What are you doing?

Why are we taking the route of let's paint the woman as crazy? That, to me, screams I'm a big thought. By the way, just went and bought chickens with her today. Why are you hanging out with somebody like that? What do you think the implication is also, by the way? That's my whole point. And all of these implications are so heavy, and yet you want to sit there and say that she's a tornado? What are you then?

A fucking hurricane? Yeah. Like, it's unbelievable. You have trampled upon her. What's worse? A hurricane. Why? There's water?

No, tornadoes are usually localized and they're done in 15 minutes hurricanes. Okay. No, I just, yeah, there you go. Maybe they know. Tornators are quick. No, boop, usually. Tornado Schwartz. Torpedo, or hurricane.

Oh, yeah, yeah. I've seen one tornado in my life, like a real one. Cool. In person. Yeah, it was sick. Went the other way. Thank God. I saw a, what's the water one called?

Oh, water spell. Yeah, those are fun. I've seen a water spell. Really fun. Those pop up. But yeah, the tornado was wild. That was cool. That was in Texas.

Where was I? Oh, Craig's a fuck boy. Yeah, got it. More evidence to that point is him saying, me and Charlie going to the oyster farm has turned into how upset is Sally going to be? Why? Why is that now the situation? Who did that?

it wasn't Sally. It sure wasn't Charlie. She didn't ask you to go to your friend's oyster farm. You have set up this situation. Whether you implied or intended to or not is irrelevant. This is a product of you, Craig. It is your job as the quote unquote nice guy in the group to make sure everyone's okay. Sally's going to be crushed regardless.

You could have handled that infinitely better. The thing with Charlie, you should have had a more clear conversation with her at some point to lay out your intentions. playing the coy like Southern boy like oh I'm shy I'm scared fuck you you are an adult these are adult women who are entering that phase in their life clearly with Sally where they're ready for bigger things they're not dating for fun anymore they're dating because they're trying to figure out their next steps and you the 40 year old who got smoked by your ex is now taking that out on them because you're quote unquote if I hear this one more time I'm going to lose my fucking mind all of a sudden Craig is living his life and everyone's mad about it because you

living your life is at the detriment to everybody around you. And when people try to criticize you about that, you refuse to listen to them. You come up with outlandish excuses like you're an addict or an alcoholic. And then you point the finger around you. You did this. You did this. And you did this. Even though none of them are involved in the situation that you've created, you have now doled out blame to everybody but yourself. Instead of sitting there and taking this from Austin, which you deserve, you get your ball and you go home and blame everyone else. Yeah. I was still happy to see the rest of the group not. Like they, By not talking and not explaining things to Craig, they already kind of...

Yeah, they drew their line in the sand. We've seen this happen multitudes of times where Craig will go off and you'll see a couple of people be like, yeah, you know, Craig's not wrong. Craig is absolutely wrong. Craig's wrong. I'm happy that the rest of the guys can see that. And look, you can read into it a couple different ways. The way that Austin was talking about Sally, bit much. Bit butch.

She's a sweetheart. She's got a great heart. She's a great girl. She wouldn't hurt fly. All right. You've been having out here at the gym. All right. You back off a little bit better.

You've been walking on the treadmill next door a lot? Yeah. You, uh, I, look, I, he's not wrong by any. He's not wrong. But it is,

the timing is very funny because Craig, and I'm surprised Craig didn't pull something out of his ass right there. It's coming. I know it's coming, but I'm surprised in the frantic mood that Craig has been in. I'm surprised he didn't drop it immediately. Wittner, tell him that Sally hangs out with Austin.

Exactly. Yeah. That's what I expected. So nobody stops Craig. Craig just leaves. It's like, okay, we're doing this again. Bye, Craig. I really thought this night was going to be so much. This is not how I thought this night was going to be. What did you think was going to happen?

My hot tub affects Sally. Yeah, that's probably what he's doing. He's sitting in his hot tub alone, texting Sally, texting Charlie. Anybody who are? No, you guys are at Madison's. Okay. What do you mean you're talking about me? What happens? What happens? I just, you can tell, and this was what I was talking about the beginning of the episode, the guys had fun. The girls had fun at their little sleepover. but the guys had a great time. They got a little mangled.

They went out, had a couple of beers. Wittner's got a tab open. Hell yeah, brother. Everybody, oh, put it on Wittner's tab. We're going to have a good time. Come on, we're having a good time here. Rod and Austin are just hammered. Wasted.

Wittner might be holding it better together. I would be surprised if he wasn't as drunk, but maybe he was driving. No, they took an Uber. They did call. They did say a couple different times, let's call an Uber. Love that.

When they went from bar to bar and then over to Madison's. But Whitner, when they did, go over and they decide to do a panty raid, which is a very funny phrase to go over to Madison Sleepover. They go over there. Whitner immediately is in the kitchen, and he's got a little goblet, and I'm like, he's fucked up, too. I know what that is. I know exactly what you're doing. Austin is laying on his belly with his feet up in the air, just kicking it, just feeling great. Him and Madison have a great, I love when he walks in. He's, wow, this is beautiful. Madison's like, you've got to go see the pool. They're just having a great time, Kiki and figuring it out.

Rod's in a great spot. Everybody's happy to do. see, like, at first, no, no, no turns into, all right, come on. You guys are fun. Just don't spill any fucking wine on my white carpet. I'll swear to God I'll kill you. Fine. Let's just decompress and talk about tonight. What happened?

What happened to Craig tonight? Craig shit. As soon as Austin sighs. Yeah. I'm like, ooh, he's going to do it. Yeah. And to his credit, because I thought he was going to do it, too. To his credit, he just kept it on task.

And look, he knows, Sally just. went through this today or the day before. That's what they're probably talking about. We're all caught up to speed on this, except for the one thing that rod drops. Let's talk about this. Craig was just weirdly spinning things out of control when it comes to Sally. We weren't really pressing them. We were just asking him what's going on, and he called Sally a tornado. He said that she's chaotic, and she just ruins everything in her path.

Yeah, he's using hyperbole, but he did pretty much say that. Sally's on one. Ready to go right away. Fuck that. Absolutely. Let's go. Let's go after this. Hey, you're being fucking quiet over there.

Charlie, what the hell's going on? Well, the whole thing just spiraled out of control because him and Charlie are going on a date on Thursday. Oh, Rod goes, come on. Charlie's going on a date with him. Don't scare her. Rod. Hey, man. Oh, God.

Quiet. He's out. Like, the drunkest, sluriest little voice. In his face, he does the George. Uh. What did I? Yep. What?

What's going on? That was news to everybody there. That is such a great way. I love the way the episode ended because everybody in that room, except for Charlie and Sally. And maybe some people towards Charlie because they feel like she's doing this, like behind Sally's back. Everybody else is in a great place. They're all friends. They're just gossiping about the group.

There's two people on the outs right now. We've got one of them here. Let's get her. that's I mean that's what you want in a show like this is what we want to see we want to see camaraderie we want to see these big moments at the end of the show we want to see everyone getting along and we want to see them rally behind people that deserve to be rallied behind Craig had his time in the sun he is very quickly plummeting back down to earth and that's what's beautiful about this group they're not going to let this go especially now that Madison's involved and sees how crushed sally was and now I know that she has that big sister role this will not end well for Craig not that Craig's going to take any kind of ownership or accountability. Yep. But you want to see this. You want to see a big cast rallied together because that means that we are in a good season.

That's exactly what that means. I'm stoked. Absolutely. I can already see a couple of Sally haters in these comments. Let's get through them. Yay. Come on out. Come on now.

Well, this is more of a question. So we'll inform you from Emily Perillo 14. Did Craig actually lead Sally on or was she just the last? Lulu. He let her on hard. Yeah, he let her on really hard. Very astute point from Hildita La Del Barrio. Craig said he was considering

distancing himself from Sally, but then seems pissed when he finds out Austin is spending time with her. Is he jealous of her or just mad because it's Austin? Both. Yep. Both. That's what I was saying earlier. Janice Frillman, what was Sally expecting? You could say that, like, yeah,

what was she expecting? Vanita did lay it out. Again, that whole conversation was whack, but you gotta let her go and figure it out. We've all been in a situation where you're much more into somebody than they are into you and you make a lot of concessions along the way trying to convince yourself it's going to work out. I think that it would be pretty hypocritical of all of us to hold Sally to some standard that we all haven't been in that boat at some point or another. Yeah. From R. Duncan 2292. Did you all notice how Sally immediately became the tornado Craig was mentioning? She said

that. She said he wants to see a tornado, I'll be a tornado. Yeah, no, no, you don't get to do that. Yeah. You don't get to label her as, oh, Craig was right. She is doing this now because of Craig pushing her to that point. This is, this is 100% warranted and her saying, I'm going to show him a tornado. He deserves to see, he wants to call you that. Then fucking show up and be one. Who cares? I'm 100% on board with her going scorched earth. She deserves it. This is not proving Craig right at all. This is Craig has pushed her to this point, so he deserves what's coming. From Von Nes, do we think Sally still has the chickens, or were they just used to try and connect with Craig? Like I said, I think she's going to enter this nurturing phase where it's like a lot, all about her.

She's going to feel great. She's going to know what she wants moving forward, and then she's going to find the love of her life. And I think the chickens are going to be a big part of that. That's what I think. From Claire Archibald, what did you think of Wittner's comments on Austin and Craig? Also, why isn't he a catch like Austin and Craig? I don't know why he's not a catch like Austin and Craig. Seems like he's got a pretty standard life living down there.

Good looking dude, good family, a couple acres down there. It probably has a lot to do with... It's probably not putting himself out there, to be honest. I would say this has a lot to do with his fiancé leaving him. He's clearly not through those woods yet, which, you know, it is what it is. He'll come out the other side. He seems like a good guy. Yeah.

And last one here from Caros. Diaz 109. Any chance of Vinita at some point had a crush on Craig and his hurt slash med, he shut her down. Maybe. It's ancient history at this point. I'm still of the thinking that like, and this could just be

because we didn't get a whole lot of Vanita scenes as it was. There was a point where Vanita only filmed with Madison. She only filmed with some of the girls. She would do that sleepover thing. They only showed us those scenes. Yeah, we only showed us. We were only shown those scenes. And then all of a sudden she was hanging out with J.T. And it's like, okay, I don't really

want to see this either. I've never seen in her time on this show her hang out with the face time with Austin was bizarre. That was just their hatred for Craig. She's never hung out with Craig, Austin, Shepp, any of those guys just one-on-one where she's the only person there. I don't really think they were ever friends. I don't think that she should have been speaking on the page Craig thing because they're not really that close, but she spoke on it and Craig returned fire. I just don't think it's that deep ever. No, not to get to this point where we're now ruining friendships over it. And when your friend is sitting there in a puddle, you're going to throw lighter fluid in a match on her.

Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, that's it for questions. Well, I think the biggest takeaway is we're in a really good place with this show. There's a lot of shit going on, a lot of stuff to dig into. I don't know where this goes. I have a sneaky suspicion. This will be a Craig versus Everybody.

Mm-hmm. With Charlie as, what's that word, collateral damage? Yeah. I'm hoping because it's Charlie's first season. She does seem nice. She just made some terrible errors. I think this was a bad mistake. Yeah.

I hope she can somehow get her way out of it, and it's still Craig versus pretty much everyone else. Because I think as long as Austin's not leading that charge, like you said Madison's going to go after him. Yeah, if Madison and Rod can get after him or at least talk about him some more, we'll have to see what happens. When Shep comes back, he's going to play that innocent bystander. If Austin's leading the charge is just going to be Craig and Austin,

and everybody else is just kind of skirt out of the way. Nothing will land. Yeah. Not that anything will land with anybody else. No. We've seen that one. We don't need to see that one again. I want something to come out of this.

I don't know what that is. I don't know if it's finally accountability. I don't know because that's not going to happen. No. But like I hope. I have confidence in Madison. Yeah, I agree. I have confidence in Madison.

But yeah, that's all I got. You got anything else? Nope. Well, that's our show. Damn it. Brof Bros are out of here. If you love those Wait, what?

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