Brown Girls Do It Too - Another One, Thank You with Bella Hull

Episode Date: August 5, 2022

Is ethical non-monogamy the answer to lasting love?

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If you didn't know already... And you... And the naked, sorry, and if you're naked, If you're naked! And us naked in the thumbnail didn't give it away, this is a sex podcast! And if you can't tell from our voices, we're British Asian babes. We really are. I'm Rubina. I'm Poppy.

And this is Brown Girls Do It Too. I'm Rubina, and I'm an accidental monogamist. I slipped and fell and now I wear the cast of a woman chained to one lover. And I'm Poppy and I'm an intentional non-monogamist. I threw myself into the chasm of polyamory and I've cracked my head and I've seen the light. So today we're talking about how to make your claim if you've had a workplace accident. Jokes! We're talking about monogamy. And if there's such a thing as the one, or even the one right now. The one. You sound like you're in like a film trailer. The one for you! Do you believe in the concept of soulmates? A

question that comes up time and time again, but do you actually believe in soulmates? I mean, I like the idea of a soulmate, for sure, but I mean, you also have to kind of believe you have a soul, which, by the way, I think I might.

You think you don't? I think I believe that we have souls, yeah. Oh, right, okay. I think I'm like, a little bit, as I get older, and now I've had a little boy,

I think I'm getting more religious. Are you getting more religious? I'm getting more fondo. You're getting more fondo, bro. Are you praying? Do you pray in a mas? I pray,

yeah, I pray. Like, I definitely, you know, I accidentally pray. a maz? I pray, yeah I pray You know I accidentally pray It's another thing I accidentally do I don't know about you but when I was younger My mum used to get into the car Every car journey would start with Bismillah And we'd start driving Anything I do with Ray I'll start with Bismillah Because you're a mother now isn't it?

Well muzzos have prayers for everything A shit, getting into the car, getting out of the car Getting into the house, getting out of the house We have a prayer for everything But I suppose now you're a mother now, isn't it? Well, muzzos have prayers for everything. Oh, yeah. A shit, getting into the car, getting out of a car, getting into the house, getting out of the house. We have a prayer for everything. But I suppose now you're a mum, you're quite protective. So, of course, you're going to say this to your mum. Oh, of course. And I love saying things to my son, like, inshallah.

God willing. Inshallah. When you're 15, I will listen. May you listen to this podcast. 15. Might be. That's pretty young. I think 15 is a perfect age yeah maybe maybe potentially even

younger but um do you do you think that you're with a partner is he your is he your would you say he's your soulmate no absolutely not no I love him dearly and he is I don't think he's my soulmate no I think he's um he's a wonderful man that I met at this time of my life who is the person I think about all the time and I would do anything for and I've had a child with um but it's very much a specific time in our lives and I I'm not so naive to think oh this is gonna last forever I would love for us to last forever and for us to have the same sort of intensity that we do now of like love and respect and passion. But I don't think that's the real world.

Yeah, I completely agree with you. But let's rewind. Re-e-wind. Oh! Did you meet someone on a Monday, probably? I met someone on a Saturday, actually. Took her for a sushi. Took her for a sushi on a Sunday.

Couldn't have sex because I was so full. But let's rewind. Do you believe in soulmates to begin with yes i mean it's like soulmates is funny because i guess the what you're asking me is like do i believe that there's just one person in the world for you that is that you're supposed to meant to be with is that is that what you're kind of asking because soulmates for me could be like me and you have like yeah kind of a soulful mate yeah we're soulmates already yeah exactly we're not having sex i'm talking about soulmate you have fuck with. Do I believe there is one person in your whole life that you should end up with

and that you should only have sex with? No, I think your life should be full of it. And also you change across your life. So the things that you thought you wanted when you were 16 are totally different when you're 25 to 45, you know? But why do you think as a society we're so hell-bent on humping this idea of monogamy? Because we know monogamy doesn't work

people cheat people are unfaithful in fact in my relationship in the last six months i was thinking about people in ways that were just really really unhealthy i said that to my partner yeah my ex partner at the time but i was like i'm thinking about people in ways it's not just oh a crush that you see it was more I think that's fine if I'm honest personally like I've had sex dreams

about other people I'm a thousand percent sure no no no Rubina this is not a sex dream this was way worse this is me actually living out a fantasy

day to day with somebody else it was not the usual did not fall into the usual realms of so you were like mind cheating on somebody

oh I was a hundred percent mind cheating and somebody? Oh, I was 100% mind cheating. Yeah. And I would argue that is far worse than a one night stand. Prior to that, would you have considered yourself a monogamous person? Yeah, because I'm Muslim and I'm brown and I'm a woman. It's fucking drilled into you and you're zero. It's true. You have a monotheistic religion.

Yes. You have a mono cycle. Don't know where you're going with this. You are a monocle. Yeah. You have a mono cycle. Don't know where you're going with this. You are a monocle. You have a monocle. You have a mono vagina that is designed for one man, two ways at a time. If I was born with two vaginas...

How amazing would it be? If I was born with two vaginas, I would 100% not be monogamous because that would have been my signal to be like, there are two of them. I need two men each time. But it is just fascinating. And I think that since I've come out of a very monogamous, very long-term relationship,

I am now completely converted to the idea of non-monogamy, ethical. Some people take umbrage to the word ethical non-monogamy because it implies that there's something wrong with non-monogamy. Have you seen Conversations With Friends? there's a really good bit in it where she says um but you know can you love more than two people at the same time like I just don't believe you can love two people at the same time and then a woman trips and like oh yeah like when you have your two kids does your mum love you more and it's like it's true right absolutely I think it actually is really possible to love more than one person. And that's why when people are coming in

and out of relationships or maybe cheating on this and dishonesty, they're like, I still love this person, but I love this person too. And it's really confusing. But because we live in this monogamous state, instead of saying to their partner, hey, I've fallen in love with somebody else,

but I still love you. What can we do? They say, oh my God, I've cheated on you or I'm hiding it from you. And it becomes like, it becomes horrible. And that is the crux of it, right? Like you can still be capable of loving your partner, but you just want something different.

And I think, I think this is something we talked about before. Like no one tells you, especially when you're in a long-term relationship, they take work, things become samey, samey, boring, stale. And especially like me, if your body count is an extraordinarily high and you haven't really been dating,

you become even more, you know, you long for those experiences that you never had. So, I mean, I never said this to my partner and he'll probably find out about it on this podcast but if he had agreed to us being in an open relationship I probably would have considered being with him because at the time I mean we were growing apart and there were lots of things that were that were niggling us but sexually I wanted to it was sexual gratification. It wasn't that I wasn't getting my sexual gratification with him. It was because how monogamous people would describe me as greedy. I wanted more.

I had a high sex drive and I wanted more. I wanted different kinds of sex. I wanted to experience sex with women as well. And there's no reason with rules and boundaries why you can't do that. 100% I agree. With my ex boyfriend i remember saying to him if you ever get the opportunity to cheat on me like if you want if you think it's going to happen don't not do it but maybe come speak to me first because i

might be okay with it and i remember like drawing those lines out with him really quickly and really early on he totally cheated on me and didn't tell me so i was like i don't know what more i could have done actually i was really probably trying to be a bit more like open-minded about that and I still think I am like that like I've been with my partner for like seven years we have a little boy together and if he was tempted by somebody or if I was I hope that we could come to each other and talk about it and then let the relationship evolve yes maybe the status quo is monogamy but I wonder how many relationships start monogamous and then evolve into something else. Exactly. And then, you know, you think about divorce rates. Divorce rates are lower than they were however many years ago because people cohabit and live together now.

But I'm now in my mid-30s. I'm hearing second divorces, second marriages. Look, I'm not saying monogamy doesn't work. We've been practising it for thousands and thousands of years globally across all faiths, and everyone does it. It clearly works. But I'm also saying there's 8 billion people in this world, and there are 8 billion different ways, or 9 billion people in this world. There are 9 billion ways to do love and do relationships. There is not a one-size-cookie-cutter-fix-all.

I know I sound like a conspiracy theorist here, but it's totally a societal construct and a religious one, and it feeds into capitalism. And actually, when you speak to people about non-monogamy, they kind of look down on you. They're like, oh, what's wrong with you? Or they think you're a bit hippie

or that you're trying to like break up some sort of established order. Like, oh my God, if we were all like non-monogamous, we'd all be sleeping with each other, we'd be able to control it. Like, that would be the problem. Like, I'd be like,

well, Poppy, we should probably have sex now because, you know, we're non-monogamous. We should just give it a go. Yeah. And it's not like that. It's problem like i'd be like well poppy we should probably have sex now because you know we're not monogamous we should just give it a go yeah and it's not like that it's like that and like much like um when we talked about bdsm uh where they have rules it's the same with yeah exactly it's the same with non-monogamous non-monogamous people aren't sluts yes they're actually quite picky about who they and they're selective and they're respectful and and you know and then you you had the counter argument but it doesn't work i knew a friend of a friend who did polyamory or non-monogamy

and then they broke up after 10 years. So do monogamous couples. All the time. All the fucking time. You know, and I always say this to my girlfriends and they're always like, oh, what? I'm like, if you, because we're yet to prove this because we're not 70 yet.

All right. When I see 70 year olds now who are still together, I'm like, well, it was a different time. And maybe you felt that you had to be etc etc etc yeah look at our parents for instance but I'm like let us get to our 50s 60s 70s and if we're still in love and potentially having sex but ultimately still in love because love for me is the barometer of of a successful relationship then you've won the lottery in life yeah because. Because I don't meet, I think if it works, you're incredibly lucky

if you're still with the same person. But the reality is, and now we've got the paradox of choice and so many dating apps. But do you think we have too much choice? We have too much choice. We have too much choice. Hello, have you seen me

try and find a film on fucking Netflix? The whole thing is an ordeal. It takes 47 minutes. I go through three of my favourite categories, obviously thriller, comedy, rom-com, go back to thriller, start it for seven minutes, go through three of my favorite categories obviously thriller comedy rom-com go back to thriller start it for seven minutes go onto wikipedia read a review go back it takes forever there's too much it's too much and i think because of that as well because we have so much choice like the truth is there's always going to be someone better looking i

always say this is always going to be someone stronger someone wealthier someone smarter someone more on your wavelength that's the truth and actually choosing to be with somebody is in terms it is settling you're settling for this thing that happens to you right now it's true i don't really believe in the expression um the the you know the grass is greener or finding someone better it's like you find someone different that suits you now someone you just a different person i see yeah that's actually a better way to say it it's not like this whole thing that we chase, like capitalism. Oh, there's someone better for you.

So you're constantly chasing, aren't you? She's got all Joe Rogan on her skull. I know. It's true, isn't it? It's what we get sold as a concept, as a theory. There's someone better for you. Rubino, you're tall. There's a guy taller.

There's a guy who's wealthier. He's got a second home in Cornwall. Don't know why we went there. He's white. He's white he's white today we're opening up our monogamous relationship to finally do the thing i have always wanted to do we're going to have a three-way with our very funny guest it's stand-up comedian who is sitting down with us today bella hall welcome to brown girls hi guys anyway so Bella we've got to ask you

are you into non-monogamy is it your bag are you into it I would have to say no although I have explored it in the past

okay I'm currently very in love in a very monogamous relationship and I'm a psycho I'm jealous as hell

oh interesting like I'm the kind of person that if there's like an Instagram story of one of my boyfriend's friends and he's in it and he's talking to a girl and she's smiling I'm like okay I guess I'm a murderer now do you know what I mean I'm like I need to find out who she is track her down yeah, track her down. Yeah. And sometimes my flatmate will come in and visit me and I'll tell her that I'm spiralling

and she's like, okay, we need to stop doing this. We need to put your phone away. I have friends like this. I'm not very a jealous person. No, I'm not. Not at all.

I used to not be until my boyfriend's really hot. Oh. And so I... Oh, mine's ugly. That's probably why. I've had a lot of situations where like... Your partner is very, very handsome. No, he's really hot oh and so I'm undugly that's probably why I've had a lot of situations where like

your partner is very very handsome no he's very hot he's yeah I'm sure I'm sure he's absolutely I'm sure I'd be dripping if I met him but

my boyfriend I've had the experience where like I've been in like parties with him and he's introduced himself to people and I've seen girls

do the look do the look and I'm like, fuck you. Do you know what? I need to cut this right now. You are like so many of my friends and I'm telling you this now, you need to nip the shit in the bud.

Don't do this. That's on you. I'm sorry, how old are you? 23. Oh my God, nip it now. No, but you know what? Jesus Christ. I think it evolves, right?

Listen, I had a baby in January and when I was pregnant, I was very conscious that my body was changing. Sexy bar woman's body was not changing, right? So my boyfriend's eyes are there. The other thing I've noticed is

I carry my child in the sling. Men literally don't look at me. I'm fucking invisible to them. He carries our child in the sling. Everyone's looking. Pussy magnet. Like literally, girls are just smiling at him,

smiling at the baby and I'm like, he has had a baby with some of the guys. So our entire podcast is our entire episode is about poly um non-monogamy and you are massively monogamous would you consider oh yeah i have definitely i mean i've been in an open relationship in the past okay tell us about that um which didn't work out because i basically realized that we were open because it wasn't good enough just us two. Oh, OK, interesting.

And it was kind of a... There was a lot of connection there and we had a lot of stuff in common and our relationship, we lived together and whatever, so there was a lot to throw away if it had gone wrong. But we needed to compensate because the sex wasn't happening between us. Right.

So... But would you not argue that sometimes compensating is just getting your fill? It's like you're not going to be stuck with one chocolate flavoured ice cream forever. You want to have different things. Yes, very true. But have you ever had sex,

like been having sex with someone for a while and just know this is as good as it's going to get? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, that's why monogamy doesn't work. That's why you try other things. Yeah, but the thing is, I'm not having that right now. Yeah, so I totally, when I was 23, I definitely, if someone had said open relationship,

I'd have been like, slut. And I think it does, at different times and different stages of your life, you do, things come to you, right? So I totally appreciate that. But I think this is it. Like, we're so hardwired

to monogamy and every single friend I talk about, oh, I couldn't possibly be in an open relationship or an ethically non-monogamous relationship because of the jealousy.

Well, what's ethical? Does that mean you don't talk about it? No, ethical means you do. It's the opposite of that. So you get consent.

It's consensual. You talk about it. There are rules it's like hey I'm going out and seeing this person because it's date day

or you're doing the same so you have rules or you re-establish how the communication goes because you could be in a relationship with someone and you could say we're in an open relationship

but I never want to hear about any of the other people that you have sex with and you never hear about the people I do I can't deal with it I can't deal with it now it's breakdown territory right

I wouldn't be able to handle it either handle what? I'm too curious do you hear what I can't deal with it now it's breakdown territory right I wouldn't be able to handle it either handle what I'm too curious do you hear what I said about the Instagram story yeah no you would die you would die

it's not for you you would die it's not for you but let's talk about but this is the thing it's like jealousy as an emotion ruins so much

oh yeah it's the thing for joy famously it's like you're going to drive them away like the last thing that is attractive a bit of jealousy a bit of drive them away. Like the last thing that is attractive.

Yeah. A bit of jealousy, a bit of drama is hot. Yeah. But like the last thing anyone wants. Yeah. Because also then it makes you both anxious and clingy. They're making you jealous and then you're making them jealous. And then it's like kind of a jealousy spiral.

Then it's like a lot of various. Yeah, and it's not healthy. Other people. And you could do the same. Yeah, no, it's not good. So I've just come out of a 10 year relationship and I'm massively, massively into into non-monogamy and I think why are you in that relationship no she was in a monogamous relationship I was in a monogamous relationship sorry I was in a monogamous relationship but definitely toyed the idea in with myself between me and me of being in an

open relationship but my partner was way too traditional and conservative for me to even suggest that as an idea. And I do think it's stages in life, right? When I was in my 20s, I wouldn't have even dared consider an open relationship. But right now, having lived and being... But yeah, if I had met you in my 20s, I would have probably been a bit more interested in non-monogamy. But in my 20s, the people who were practising non-monogamy

were terrifying. You know, they were the people who were, like, tellingogamy were terrifying yeah you know they were the people who were like telling me that i you know me as murder and like i'm sorry but they were like those people that i met i was like wearing really frightened of yeah i was like oh okay and also i found the whole concept of polyamory like weirdly not an asian thing like i was like oh i don't belong to that kind of white liberal world yeah you can do all that stuff. And also where you can like life hack intimacy. Because I think also like coming from like an Asian family, it's like very, very sacred. And you don't get divorced and you just it's like you are life partners.

And then that is fucking it. And so it's so far removed. You don't know anyone. I don't know anyone who is polyamorous. Actually, you know what? I would like a new boyfriend. I would like a boyfriend who likes to do some of the things I do. Because my partner, like, we have loads of things in common,

but we're also quite different. Okay. Like, I like nature walks and stuff, and he's just not really into that. So I just need a boyfriend that does that bit. So monogamy, you're a card-carrying monogamist then? I would say in the relationship I'm in right now, yes. Because I...

It's too new we've been together a year yeah and so the sex is still very much good enough for me to think why do you need to be

having males elsewhere yeah also I'm not here to force feed someone monogamy if it's not for you and it's not right

not in the feeling yeah yeah absolutely but do you think everyone should try it once before they die monogamy non-monogamy abso-fucking-lut think everyone should try it once before they die? What, monogamy? Non-monogamy.

Abso-fucking-lutely everyone should try non-monogamy at some stage in their... Be it in your 50s, 60s, 70s, 30s, 20s. I'm going to hold that until my 80s.

And like, non-monogamy when you're older. I think when you're older and you've got nothing else to lose, you're like, look, I've done the monogamous thing,

I've had the kids, I've bought the house, I've got the Citroen FA. No, I totally disagree with you. Monogamy at peak time, you have another decade, in our 30s, 40s. You've had the kid,

you're tired, you're not in work, your husband's looking elsewhere. Apparently, statistically, men are more likely to, sorry. Fuck the nanny. Well, have affairs

when you just have a kid, but your partner's amazing, your partner's amazing, loves his kid. Do you know what, actually? Statistically, women are the ones that ask for more divorces. Women are the ones who are the instigators Yeah, because women are the ones that ask for more divorces. Women are the ones who...

Yeah, because women are the ones that, like, you aren't fucking trying hard enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I've just had a baby and now I have jazz hands flaps. Yeah, exactly. My flaps are absolutely fine,

thanks, Bella. Like, there was a stitch and it's given me a fix. Yeah. And did you get the extra stitch? Yeah. Well, I mean, I tore. Yeah, I had a second-degree tear.

Oh, bless you. It's very common. But I think our age, sort of our age, your 30s, 40s, when things are kind of petering, maybe your career is fine, but life, kids, samey, samey, same man, same relationship, same house, that's when you're like, fuck. Let's spice it up.

Let's spice it up. Add some holdy in there, extra chili powder, go for a young stallion. Do you know what the truth is, though? You've got to understand, like, I feel like I've just had a baby and I have, like, no time. Yeah. extra chilli powder go for a young stallion do you know what the truth is though you gotta feel you gotta understand like I feel like I've just had a baby and I have like no time yeah

the idea of even like trying to flirt with someone to get to the point where I can convince him to have sex with me despite the fact that I'm still breastfeeding yeah

I mean maybe I think what there might be some guys that are into it wait till he's in school yeah I totally agree I mean we talked about this in the podcast

do you feel after you had a baby how did it affect your sex drive? Oh, it bombed. Yeah, completely. I was like a serial wanker. Like, I could masturbate every day

and knock one out quite quickly. Yeah. Even when I was pregnant, it probably was like twice a day. Like, it was really intense. And then having a baby, I was like, I just don't do it for me at all. Yeah, sorry, let me rephrase.

Not right now for you, because as we talked about, when you're a new mum, you barely have time to fucking piss. But you know when things get a bit stale and a bit samey oh yeah we do need like

if you think about the lifestyle someone and then it kind of melts into like boyfriend sex and you're like oh this is neither of us

are really concentrating I think you need to switch things up at some point in your life and you both will feel it I think you should constantly be switching stuff up I think if you're in a

long time relationship with anyone like you've already said a relationship is hard work you need to be making stuff up with her but how many're in a long-term relationship with anyone, like you've already said, a relationship is hard work. You need to be making stuff up with her. Yeah, but how many couples do you know?

Think about this. Close your eyes, both of you right now. Oh. How many couples do you know where things are a bit samey, a bit staley? So many.

So many. But can I tell you something crazy? They don't need to tell you. You're sitting in Nando's, he's lingering on the fucking Nando's lady a bit too long. She's told you things

you put two and two together it doesn't take a fucking genius to work out you know what is so depressing is when you go on a date on Valentine's Day to a nice restaurant and all of the couples

none of them are talking to each other and it's not Valentine's Day that is basically what I did with my ex-husband we went to a restaurant and none of us spoke and then you look around

and I am now I've got a PhD do you remember being a kid though and like seeing couples in restaurants and being like when I meet my partner that's not going to be me I am never going to sit there

opposite my partner and not say anything the amount of times we've done it because we're like knackered we're like well I went to a really fancy fish restaurant

the other day with the guy I'm seeing and we were just like 11 o'clock 9.05 10 o'clock 10 o'clock like just couples

not talking to each other just not talking and we were like is that a father and daughter or a man and second wife situation it was a man and just not talking and we were like is that a father and daughter or a man and second wife situation it was a man and second wife situation and we were just like they're just not talking

but then I do get it there's a familiarity where you don't feel like you need to but also there's a lot of peace in that is there a comfortable silence yeah like I hate I feel like I'm the monogamous like church person

like monogamy is amazing but there's an amazing comfort in coming back for the entire meal and kicking back with somebody for the entire meal we are back with somebody for the entire meal we are so chill with each other we know each other so well

that we can just be comfortable in our silence Rubina for the entire meal not for the entire meal I mean like listen to that I'm a fucking podcast there are uncomfortable silences and then there are also silences

where like the man has clearly done something wrong the woman is is a barbed silence the woman's lips are slightly tense yeah

the man's drinking his solitary beer oh yeah in his hugo boss polo t-shirt and everyone's no idea about people's contacts like yesterday on the tube right i saw a family where they had like two teenage girls and the man and women were being just such assholes to each other she was like i told you richard to take that off of her look she's playing with it now and they were arguing across the way right and it was i was watching this tube journey unfold and i was like, oh my God, that's what it's going to be like to have a family.

I was looking at my partner and was like, oh my God, that's going to be us. That's going to be us. Look how angry they hate each other. They hate each other. Then like right before they stopped at the tube, he was like, right, family selfie. And they all hugged each other

to take this family selfie on the tube. And I was like, I don't get it. What's the context? It's like, actually, that's just like their banter. That's their family. Yeah, that's how they love each other. Like, just short of them beating their child up which hadn't didn't happen right i didn't see that no no then i think that's fine i mean my parents would have probably just got something out and just threw something at me so i think short of violence it's kind of whatever

works for your family yeah true yeah yeah yeah we are asian do what you do do you think that you do you think that we are on the precipice of some sort of sexual revolution? Because they said that there was apparently, this field app said there was a 400% increase in women searching for the term threesomes post-pandemic. Do you think that there is something different happening right now?

That we are on this frontier of a sexual revolution? Nah. I just feel like younger people are getting less interested in sex pornography has now been this like really like enemy of the state pornography like everyone's really angry about pornography still like there's nobody really being like hey you know sex is fun sex in multiple parts is fun and that being like in in the mainstream at all at all so here's the difference right so you do you agree with Rubina? Do you think yes or no? Because obviously you're much younger,

so I don't know what your friends are saying. I don't think that porn is being berated. Oh, really? You think it's being celebrated? Not in my circles. My friends' boyfriends, when I talk to them about porn. Why boyfriends? Well, because those are the only straight men that I speak to, really.

But are you saying that they're the only men that you know... They're all watching porn. And no girls you know are watching porn. No, girls watch porn as well. Yeah. I think it's... But I'm sensitive about porn because of previous relationships where I was with someone who very much was addicted to porn and we

weren't having sex and so i kind of felt very much like oh i'm not enough like i'm not i can't compete with that and also it was like blonde skinny girls that have a little tiny like clam vagina oh yeah little mermaid and i'm just like well okay sure do you know what i mean yeah and so now i think porn is like I just want to be treated like I just want little house on the prairie sex do you know what I mean vanilla sex

do you? no I think like we all think we want this thing right this is the strange thing about sex in general though isn't it you want the variety though I think you want some really nice like you know you're wearing a. I think you want some really nice, like, you know, you're wearing a bonnet, it's an ex. You want some fucking each other. Yeah.

You want a balance. Actually, I think to achieve that, you probably need to be non-monogamous. Because the postman's going to fuck you differently to the butcher. Yeah, totally. There you go. Mic drop. We've understood. You've taken the point from...

You actually want a variety of sex. You've taken the point from but i think this is also just judging from your answers it's the it's the echo chambers in which we live right all the things that i follow on my feed are very much like this is a new sexual frontier yeah we are into ethical non-monogamy or non-monogamy or polyamory and women have you know have the right to be able to practice whatever sexuality in the way that they want to without fear of reprisal, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

But I feel there is a change in tide, but it might just be an online echo chamber. And also, don't you think there's probably a really big difference between what people say is happening in their sex lives on their infographics and what people are actually doing? Exactly, yeah. Because I know a lot of infographics people that I know

are just starfish. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, there's nothing sadder than someone who's polyamorous who literally doesn't have one partner. Oh, I see. You know?

Yeah, I mean, this is true in all acts of life, isn't it? My penis is 10 inches and it's like, you're a five inch guy. Maybe we need to work

on that whole plus one situation. You know, like, I'm having a wedding, bring a plus one. I was like, well, I've're a five inch guy. Maybe we need to work on that whole like plus one situation. You know, like I'm having a wedding, bring a plus one. I was like, well, I've actually got,

there's five of us. Yeah. What do you do? What do you do with a polyamorous relationship? How do you attend parties? How do you go to the work, Christmas drinks?

So you have it with a kid's timetable, don't you? It's easily doable. Yeah. But I think because of thousands of years of hardwiring society,

religion, faith, or, you know, it's like monogamy isn't the only thing that works. I wonder how many young Asian people are actually doing polyamory without knowing that they're doing it by having the white partner that their parents married.

Is it? Exactly. And then the Asian person. So many. You know, it's a growing problem in the Asian community where they're forced to go back home, marry the cousin that they didn't want to marry, and then they've got some mistress. Did you guys know that polyamory marriage is actually illegal in the UK? I didn't know that until the producer put it on these notes. I had no idea.

You can't legally marry. Well, that's the thing, because monogamy actually means just marriage to one person, doesn't it? And polyamory is about marriage, multiple. Okay. So even as a society, we're nah monogamy but that's specific but that's specifically about marriage right like if you want to marry many people and marriage is an archaic and you'd almost think that if someone was polyamorous they wouldn't be uh into the idea of marriage yeah idea of marriage the establishment yeah or maybe they would be because they're like i'm committed to you yeah and i want to prove it maybe they are the one

thing i would have to say about my whole new card carrying, as a new card carrying member of Ethical Non-Monogamy, is I find it, where it sits on the spectrum for me is, you are my main primary partner. I give all my love to you, but I want to fuck other people, other men and women. So emotions you and sex you, but fuck other people. What I can't do is polyamory,

and we're going to go through the definitions which is basically two multiple primary partners they call it two primary partners or however many

one or more and then you do whatever the fuck you want I mean emotionally that's just a lot yeah yeah and this is the thing I'm bad at compartmentalising

I can barely deal with dating one person yeah and I think there's so much relief like when you. And I think there's so much relief. Like when you first start dating someone, there's so much anxiety, right? And you're like, then when you finally get into a place with them

where it's established, the anxiety goes away and you're like, oh, thank God, we're finally like, it's okay. And then to chuck more into the mix, maybe I'm just too anxious a person to be able to deal with it. But that's it. But non-monogamy isn't for everyone, right? If you're anxious and you can't cope and then all these other emotions

come in and it gets a bit messy then but I feel like I don't know I think it's also the comparison I think it's the comparison of like if my boyfriend fucked somebody else I if they looked like me I'd be like what the fuck if they looked not like me I'd be like what the fuck yeah what about when you're like dating because actually now we've been talking about it i started to think actually before i have a boyfriend there's a whole period of single time where i am ethically non-monogamous yeah because you're seeing lots of i'm dating and i would see some guy and i see another guy another guy another guy another guy until one of the guys sticks that's actually that is completely true yeah and we've been sleeping around but i mean yeah i mean i enjoyed it yeah of course you're like yeah like when i was single i was ethically non-monogamous maybe unethically

yeah i think i was unethically no i definitely like went on dates someone would be like yeah cool yeah i'll go for another date with you on tuesday but you know when you're like i'll see somebody else and it's like yeah I've got to come on. When you're first dating, they don't know that you're... Because we are all ethically monogamous until we say,

oh, are we exclusive? Right? Because there's a point where you get to someone that's like, by the way, I'm not sleeping with anyone else or I've turned off my Tinder. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, that's a big thing. You know, that's a big thing. And like, we all don't do that now. We think like, I'm going to wait. But it's on a spectrum, right? You turn it on, so you see everyone, you're ethically non-monogamous, then you turn it off, I'm exclusive to wait. But it's on a spectrum, right? You turn it on, so you see everyone,

you're ethically non-monogamous, then you turn it off, I'm exclusive with you. And then two, three, five years down the line, I'm bored of you, or I still love you, but actually, can we open it up again?

You're right. It's a town, it's a town. But it needs to have like a middle ground where you're like, I'm seeing you, but we're open to other things. It's on and off. I've never ever fallen in love with somebody

who's told me that they had that urge. And actually, if one of my partners had said to me, you know, across the boyfriends that I've had in my life had said, you know, I'm up for opening it up. I think younger me would have been like, all right, yeah, cool. Let's see where this goes. Me, it's a bit more like I don't have the time. I don't have the want and I don't have the want, and I don't have the will. And I think also, because I don't want to be a mum, and I think women could fare potentially worse in this ethically non-monogamous relationship or situation

because, you know, if they've got kids, they've got no time, they're juggling everything else. Yeah, this is interesting. Having a kid, you think, is going to stop somebody from being ethically monogamous, but they probably will, right? There are lots of people who have children in collectivist societies. Yeah, of course they do. And have them together naturally.

Let me tell you, I would love the extra pair of hands. Well, this is it. I'm telling you, you should open. I would love it. Now is probably the time for you to do this. Now is the time for you to open up your relationship to a throuple. Yeah, you're so right. So when you're here doing Brand Girls, do it too.

Do you know in Margate, there's loads and loads of people from the LGBTQ community. Like, I live in Margate. Seaside towns tend to get a a lot of gays which is great um and I was thinking actually there's lots of gay couples in Margate that I should invite into our into our relationship to help me take care of my child well it takes a village to raise a child so you absolutely should I think it's a smart move seaside town how can you get the most out of life? That's a big question, right?

I'm Eve, a rapper, TV presenter, businesswoman, and also a dreamer. Join me and guests as we go deep, asking some of life's biggest questions, from how to live authentic and happy to dealing with life's big challenges. Look, we may not get the answers, but through conversation, we can learn something together. Constantly evolving. The podcast with me, Eve. Listen on BBC Sounds.

Brown girls do it too. Two big institutions globally, Hollywood and Bollywood, and probably Nollywood. Fuck it, all the woods. They teach you romance, like every monogamous relationship, every time an actor

and actress get together on a mountain and the sari's flying in the wind. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Eyes meet across the room, slow motion. Slow motion, kissing but not kissing,

card card. Two fish tank, yeah. It's always, like the romance is like a sort of a key part of that. What is romance? Wow.

That's too deep, isn't it? that's too deep isn't it that's too deep for Brad to do I think it's magic I sort of weirdly kind of not weirdly

when you said you love love like I love love yeah I love it who doesn't love love love is all we have love is all around

I love I love songs I love literature I love books I love reading about love I love writing about like I sent my boyfriend like a because I journal a lot because I'm mentally insane.

And I journaled this thing and I just sent it to him. And it was like, because this weekend he came and surprised me and we had this walk in the rain to go to Tesco. But it started raining and I was like. That's romantic. And it was so mundane that it was raining. And I was just like, I wrote in my journal that like, I felt cold and wet like a lucky penny.

Oh, that's too cute. That's romance. And that's romance. Romance is like that feeling you get, which is kind of like fuzzy and indescribable. And there's no words for it. And then you're like. It's magic.

And it's just like, and it's the early. And I suppose, not that I've ever been in an open relationship, although I obviously encourage it like that imagine getting that fuzzy feeling times two or three or however many with however many partners but it's the you know when you can't I remember when I was oh god falling for someone and I was like god I'm in trouble I could I kept smelling his jacket and I was like and every time I smell his jacket I felt that fuzzy feeling and I was like yeah oh shit I'm falling yeah like it's those feelings and it's just and it's the beginnings of a relationship Like, and every time I smell his jacket, I felt that fuzzy feeling. And I was like, oh, shit, I'm falling. Yeah.

It's those feelings. And it's just and it's the beginnings of a relationship. Relationships. I don't know. I've never tried it. But like, I do think it's possible to have romance with more than one person and not the way we know it. Yeah. And not the conventional way we know it, because it's the only way it's the only way we've practiced it.

But I think it can be possible with multiple partners yeah and i think i also think romance can be applied to friendships as well like a thousand percent of friends where we will like literally go on a date i've had friend breakups that have been way more heartbreaking than than the normal actual breakups yeah because also there's no cultural apparatus for you to cope with the breakup because when you break cope with the breakup. Because when you break up with a guy or a romantic relationship breaks up, there are movies, every rom-com is about it. There's ice cream.

There are so many activities that you can do and everyone's prepared for that breakup to happen. Every song is about it. There's a huge amount of culture there and support for you to indulge yourself in. Whereas when you have a female, because I'm just a romantic person, if I'm walking around with my flatmate,

I'm holding her hand, do you know what I mean? But if that, when you fall out with a friend and there isn't this like... There's no support network. There's no support network and it's really hard. If you have sex with your platonic friend, I think it cuts deeper. I think with men or women,

when you're in a heteronormative relationship, like, yeah, you don't have sex anymore, fuck him. And like you said, you've got your mates, you can bitch, you can do the go... And you can fuck other people really quickly. But you can't get that connection. You can't replace a long-term, like, long-term female-to-female friendship.

It burns deeper. It's like arguing with a sister or like your mother. It's a different kind of hurt. Yeah. And you're so right. You reel from it a lot more. I think with men, depending on your, sorry, with the opposite sex,

depending on how long and if you've got family or kids, it still hurts. I think this is my little argument with monogamy. I mean, I'm not trying to argue that monogamy is the way, but with friends, like the friend that you've had since you were a kid who knows everything about you and you've been through everything together like i think when i look back when i'm old and i look

back on my life there's probably like one mate that i had the whole way through who's known everything who you know we've had our ups and downs we stopped talking for a year if i think about it the most enduring relationship in my life it would be her and imagine if you weren't like if you weren't something happened between you two it would be heartbreaking yeah yeah we're both actually dating older guys at the moment, like, seven or eight years older than us. And we often think, well, when they die, we'll just get back together. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know we're doing a podcast about fucking, but it's not all about fucking. Oh, no, no, no, no.

Fucking is the end goal. For women, like, this is also what is, puts me off polyamory and fucking one person is because it's hard to make me cum. And it takes a man a very intensive training course to be able to do that. And so fucking someone for the first time and then not being able to do it again. It's like the first time for me having sex with anyone is never going to be the best time having sex with them. It's never the best sex of your life. The best sex of your life is with someone that knows your body and is annoyed with you. So this is my quandary.

You've just hit the nail on the head. That is it, isn't it? So my thing with non-monogamy is that. So when I broke up with my ex-partner, I was like fucking all these guys and not coming at all. Exactly. And I was like, shit oh shit oh shit oh shit because i used to be a cum machine i have to have an emotional connection they need to be

they need to have an intense poppy body training course like in an open but then i would come to argue and be like look you go out you're in a polyamorous relationship or an open relationship you're going out with guy one two or three you get to know them they you really like each other you get to train each other up and then before you know it you're coming three different ways by three different guys i mean i don't know but that that's been my like i definitely have had an orgasm on a one-night stand with yeah interesting yeah and my and i was quite surprised by i was like yeah it takes you by surprise yeah i think i i had an unexpected orgasm with my boyfriend like the second time we slept together because we had showered and then we were...

Nothing sexier than a hygiene clean. We were like, we'd just gone to shower and then we just started sort of having sex and we moved back to the bedroom and then I came because I was on top and my body was really slippery. And I think that's how I came. You fell an orgasm.

I'm saying that because my whole body was so... My body was really lubricated and we started having sex. Do you recently continue having a slippery body? And did you try that? No, we didn't dry off. We just went straight. Have you done it again since? We have tried to recreate it, yeah.

Oh, I see. Are you a lube user? No, I'm absolutely a tap. Oh, that's good. That's good. i'm a tap but i'm not a squirter no no i need lube i need i mean i'm not dry down there completely there's something going on it's more like a damp squib but i think the lube really helps my my a year ago i got the hormonal coil oh yeah um and I don't really have periods but what happens is sometimes if I get like really really railed hard he'll take his dick out and it will be like you know like the dregs at the bottom of a can of kidney beans like that's what and he's like oh it's

barbecue season that's what he says yeah amazing so that's what i experience sometimes well i get a lot of discharge because yeah from pregnancy to until you finish breastfeeding yeah your discharge like is like maybe like times 10 the normal discharge oh wow and because it's all like oh it's i mean it makes like for somebody who needs lube yeah it's quite useful save you money lube is expensive lube is really expensive I use baby oil sometimes well I actually take my son to a baby massage class every week it's like a thing that people do to help their kids with their digestion

and the other day I took him upstairs bath and I was baby massaging him but I was noticing that the oil that I was using wasn't the oil that I was using and I accidentally I was like oh god what is think I was going to get it? I was like, oh god, what is this? He had to have a bath again straight away. Yeah, that's so bad.

So bad, isn't it? But also it's like... But also it's oil. What the hell? It's just slippery stuff. It was organic, so I was fine with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Well, I really enjoyed that threesome, Bella.

It was my fave. Thank you. I had a threesome with two girls. That's been quite good. Have you ever had a threesome before? No. No, but I've done that thing where I was like snogging one guy and then an hour later snogging another guy. Oh yeah. Does that count as anything? No.

That's not true. No. Okay. I've done that. Have you done the thing where you've had sex with one guy and then the next they had sex with a different guy? Yeah, I've done that but on the same day. Yeah, I've had sex with three guys in 24 hours. Three in 24? And I didn't wash. See, I would lie and say that was a threesome. But your vagina's self-cleaning, so in a way...

I just like the idea of them going down on me but licking someone else's dick, technically. Poppy, I love you. And Bella, we've loved you. Oh, thank you very much. Thanks for having me, guys. Thanks so much for coming on. Check out Bella Hull.

Hilarious stand-up comedy. Comedian. Comedienne. Should you for having me on Brown Girls 2 too. Check out Bella Hull. Hilarious stand-up comedy. Comedian. Comedienne. Should you say it like that? Comedienne. Comedienne. Comedienne. Thanks for joining us.

Thank you for having me. So, am I going to remain monogamous? I think that is what all the listeners are dying to hear. I think we should do a Brown Girls 2 It Too, the sequel, in about 10 years' time. No, I would love to do an episode of Brown Girls Do It Too when I'm 75. Oh my God, yes. My mum's going to be 75 this year,

and I would love for my life to be so different from hers in terms of relationships and monogamy. We need to get your mum on an episode of Brown Girls Do It Too now, and then do you when you're 75 and then do a comparing contrast. I think by the time I hit 75, I will be in an ethically non-monogamous relationship. Do you think so? Yeah, I think so.

In my old people's home. Getting freaky with the hoist. Your carer will be strapping you in, babe. Freaky with the hoist. And it makes sense because while you're out there, they may as well change your nappy. Yeah, exactly. I mean, how much does that happen in old people's homes well i think this is the other

thing isn't it it's like we had seema anand on one of our episodes like old people and sex old people are having sex and actually probably a care home is the best place to have sex because there are multiple partners how many partners do you think it takes to satisfy poppy j do you know what that sounded like that cisco song. Was it Cisco? It's like, how many licks does it take to get to the centre of the... I do remember. I was thinking about his iconic thong song.

So all I heard was a thong song. Maybe it's not Cisco though. Maybe it's somebody else. No, but it's... I know that song. You know what it is. How many partners does it take to satisfy Poppy J?

Brilliant question. We won't know. You know when we'll know? 75. You and I will come together, okay? You will be in an ethically non-monogamous relationship and I'll reveal my number. To be honest, Pops,

I don't think you can handle the drama. If you had like one guy in your life that's some element of drama, if you had like four or five other multiple partners, imagine all of our conversations, they'd just be about you. They'd be more about you than they already are. Not fair.

Not fair. No, I'm not hearing your stories. I think it'd be too much. It'd be way about you than they already are not fair not fair no I love hearing your stories I do I think it would be too much it would be way too much drama yeah I mean I wouldn't be able to cope with that much drama

it would be too confusing as well like imagine doing a podcast about it which guy are we talking about now which yeah too convoluted but

how many guys I don't know tune in in about 40-50 years time where i can reveal the magic number so what are you saying non-monogamy is not for you right now but you're potentially open to it later on in life yeah i don't think i'm too bothered thinking about whether i'm monogamous or athlete non-monogamous i think it's about the person and the person i'm with right now

i'm happy with what's going on yeah do you know the problem that I'm having it's really difficult to come across another person who is into non-monogamy like you interesting because most men that I fancy and shag are into monogamy so you so so the key thing so for in order for me to be in an ethically non-monogamous relationship I need to find a guy who's into i also i've found a guy already but i think i see him too much as a friend than someone i want to fuck that's shame that's real shame so if you're listening out there and you're into ethical non-monogamy and you fancy poppy jay don't slide into my dms email us email us at brown girls do it too at bbc.co.uk with the subject header, I'd like to shag Poppy. I bet you were going to get like hundreds of emails.

Oh my God. Shag her. Poppy's a shagger, so you'll enjoy that. And whether you're into monogamy or non-monogamy, if you liked what you heard, please, please do subscribe on the BBC Sounds podcast app. We might not be the only podcast you listen to. You might listen to multiple, but we're okay with ethical non-monogamy here. app we might not be the only podcast you listen to you might listen to multiple but we're okay with ethical non-monogamy here we're back for a new series press is the podcast where you get to air what has you guys pressed and what gets us pressed more dilemmas oh who does that more voice notes so why are you asking me out for if you don't know what to do? And more relationship tremors.

Wait, so you told YouTube before you told your mother? Yeah, babe. You are mad. I'm mad, babe. Boom. One Extra Presents Fresh. Listen on BBC Sounds.