Brown Girls Do It Too - Are We Ever Offline? with Diet Paratha

Episode Date: April 7, 2023

Has technology completely taken over the dating world?

BBC Sounds Music, radio, podcasts If BBC Sounds was a dating app this would be where we ask you for your preferences You know, what gender, sexuality, age height, politics you want a person to have And this is where we'd ask

if you can see yourself with a woman who uses strong language An adult woman. Who only talks about topics of an adult nature. Not for you. I'm sure you'll find someone else. You never had a chance with us anyway. Brown Girls Do It Too.

This is Brown Girls Do It Too. A podcast about the sex lives of British Asian women. The fantasies, the failures. And every F word in between. I'm Rubina and my online dating profile would say I'm a reverse catfish. I really am better than my photos. I'm Poppy and my online dating profile does say you should not go out with me if you are less than six feet tall and aren't into slash can't handle a semi-raging narcissist. So in today's episode we are delving into the world of online dating, which, as you know, Rubina Pabani, is a new world for me.

It's an old world for me. It's an old world for you. It's an old age of dating. It is a new world. It's changed on online dating. I felt like I was a pro back then, and I don't know anything about it now. You are like, what do you call those? The first gen.

You're the first gen of online dating. Tinder's old school now. Does anyone use Tinder anymore? No one uses Tinder. Tinder is like, you know that scene in The Lion King where they're going through the elephant graveyard? Tinder is an elephant graveyard of a dating app. Wow.

No one goes on there. Interesting. No one takes it seriously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all hingei now. I mean, there's a plethora of dating apps, but Tinder was the OG, No one goes on there. Interesting. No one takes it seriously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all hingei now. I mean, there's a plethora of dating apps, but Tinder was the OG,

but it's basically had a drug addiction, a stroke, it's gone to rehab four times. No one cares about Tinder. Great. But I think times have massively changed from the times you were dating to the times I've been dating. Oh yeah, totally. And I was like in my twenties when I was dating.

And what did your dating profile actually say? It actually said, ask me to a gig and I'll say yes. See? Innocent. Loads of my friends were really innocent, honest. Sweet. But it meant like I went to loads of gigs, saw loads of cool music, met loads of people who like music.

And I like music. So that was great. So you know what online dating has now become? You're basically Big Brother season one. I'm Big Brother season 10. Oh mate, season one was way better. Exactly. I was like Makozi season one was way better. Exactly. I was like MacCosey with my tits out.

Exactly. Now I know the game. It's like Love Island, right? Wait, MacCosey might not have been in series. The point that I'm making, Rubina, is that we are way more self-aware. But there was also Nasty Nick in series one. Sorry, I got that on Big Brother.

Big Brother was so good. Which is why series one was iconic. When you first was so good which is why Serious One was iconic when you first date online it's real and it's honest and it's genuine everyone's like authentic selves

to a degree now no one is their authentic selves yeah interesting so it is a minefield we're joined IRL today

by someone who's very online she has cultivated and created an incredible space online under the brand Diet Paratha, where she showcases the best in projects and talent by people of South Asian heritage. From curating for Vogue India to taking over London Fashion Week, our guest this week has done it all. She's also perfect for this week's topic because she met her boyfriend online. It's Anita Chiva. Hi.

You can speak. Can I say something now? You can speak. Oh my God, sorry. I'm just a bit nervous with like all the cameras and bits and pieces on me. But hello and thank you so much for having me. Welcome. Thank you so much for being here.

We've been like low-key stalking you and like fangirling you from afar and now you're here. No, stop. I've been doing the same thing. Honestly. Can I tell you a story? Just like jump straight into it. My friend Lily, she's probably listening because she listens to your podcast she was like Anita you know you need to listen to this podcast it's about these two South Asian girls and they're talking about actually it was three at the time it was like yeah it was right at the time she was like you need to listen to it it's like all about brown

girls dating and all about like sex and stuff. And I was like, I'll take a listen. Like, and I was so blown away when I listened to you. I was like, this is raw as fuck. Like I didn't think it would be like that.

And I was so pleasantly surprised just because, well, I feel like brown people don't really talk like this away about, about sex. I don't, I feel like it's not, we're not as open. And rightfully so, you know, the environments we come from.

But I was just so, I don't know, I was so pleasantly surprised. And I think you guys won like podcast of the year that year as well. And I was just like, okay. Yeah, when we first came out, we were like literally nobodies. We kind of gave each other a card and said, see you once a year for that reunion drink. Look at us now, speaking for her. Finishing my sentences, starting them as well yeah and like I guess what we've been doing in the kind of sex relationships podcast space you have been doing in like the South Asian creative space like your like Instagram

serves to kind of promote South Asia like why did you start start Prada? In all honesty... To rip off Diet Prada, obviously. In all honesty, like, I just... I'm from New Zealand, right? And I never really saw myself reflected back, like, ever. And so New Zealand is 5 million people in total. That's like my whole family. Exactly. That's like Tower Hamlets.

Exactly. So coming to the UK, even though British people... Oh, sorry, asian people are the second largest ethnic demographic in this country it still kind of feels like globally we're not really seen heard or respected and like you were just talking about the awards um and people when you had won that award it's like an accolade kind of like gives you premise to be discovered or like to to to get. You gravitas basically. Yeah,

exactly. And I feel like even amongst our own people, sometimes it's so hard to like convince people. Especially amongst our own people. We're bitches, man. We're like, I definitely,

when I was growing up, you'd look someone up and down and be like, you know, you'd, but now I think there is this general, this kind of consensus where people call it toxic positivity, but I'm like, Hey,

there's no positivity to begin with so if I can raise and support another South Asian woman and she does the same for me great because also I think it's because at the start I didn't feel like there was enough seats at the table for everyone so if you finally got your chance to do this one thing and then you saw another brown person in the room you'd be like but they gave it to me and actually now we're realizing we can have our own tables we have our own rooms we have our own spaces and like we can all be equal in those spaces anyway and that's so nice

and I feel like what you do makes me think just shows me all the other cool shit we're doing like I grew up not thinking being brown was cool

in any way but sometimes I just go on Instagram and look at what you do and I'm like we're so fucking cool very much like you we grew up

and we didn't see us reflected back at all and when we did it was bend it like beckham from 20 you know pominda nagra from 25 years ago but i held on to that even though it was about sports like i do not like sports at all and like seeing that just did so much for me i think i was 12 when it came out yeah um i've written a whole piece about it but just the way that it poked fun at the culture without like humiliating it did you see that thing recently where somebody

somebody interviewed kira knightley about it and she was like when i made it my agent and everyone around me told me that it would be a flop and i should be embarrassed about being in it and garinda chada actually recently put on her instagram she was just like that's great but think about how hard and difficult it was for me to even get this film made and it transformed her career yeah and what happened to paminda nagra she's did er and then now she's doing another version of er where she plays a doctor oh really i feel like i want to be really sensitive about the way we talk about that because i see all these internets uh internet what am i on about though we are talking about the internets though i see all these i see all these

articles and stuff kind of like not piling on Pamela Nagra, but like just talking about how she never made it. And I just feel like that. She didn't have the opportunity. But she also is successful. Like she's not nothing. Keira Knightley's career went stratospheric because she's a white woman. Oh, a hundred percent.

Pamela Nagra is equally as good as, she played the main role and look at her options. It's so limited. In Bandit Like Beckham, I think Pamela Nagra's a good actress. But I think Keira Knightley can actually be really good and stuff. Keira Knightley, I'm sorry, just pouts. I'm sorry.

No. Have you seen Dangerous Method? Have you seen the one where she's a GCHQ whistleblower? She's good in that. One film from her in Typhon Mob. Point is, Pamelaagra wasn't given opportunities yeah that's the point that is the completely agree and that kind of all just stems like into the stuff but then i feel like the culture is so vocal vocal about her like not getting

opportunities and i just think to myself like imagine being her like all the culture is saying it's too much pressure all these like negative things and i'm just like and she's probably like guys i'm fine i'm a doctor in a new series guys I feel fine I feel like we like hold we put so much into like other people's stories and I just feel like it's not helpful like I saw I remember when like Bend It Like Beckham I think it turned 20 years old it was either this year or last year it was last year right and then were all these what if like articles and I was just like this is such a shit way to honor yeah what she's into the culture and so diet prada obviously it's a play on diet prada like instead of well diet prada is but instead of cancelling it's what flips cancellation into celebration yeah I love it

and that's a big part of the type of stuff that I want to talk about I really just want to be flipping the narrative I feel like there is so much negative stuff like we've been plagued by negativity and gossip like as a culture within our own people within segregation within partition so I just really I really want to just change the narrative and like get people bigging each other up yeah definitely yeah I love that I feel like I feel like there's something in the air where that is absolutely happening in a way that I didn't see five years ago or even 10 years ago.

Like us helping each other, supporting each other, whether it's like an artist or someone who does a podcast or someone who runs an amazing page. Like, I feel like the tide is turning. And also just having a sense of discovery and interest in our work. Because I think like we consume a lot of white culture growing up, you know, everything we watch, we consume a lot of white culture growing up you

know everything we watch every piece of music we just do growing up and then it's suddenly like oh actually this is like a british asian musician who is like amazing and i would never have thought to even bother to discover it unless i didn't see it on your page i'd be like oh cool great i'm gonna go and and that's amazing that you can do that to people you're like connecting the diaspora with other members of the diaspora and we're all consuming each other's shit it's kind of like the brown pound you know like we're funding the brown pound right we're keeping the money in the diaspora but asians are quite good at doing that anyway what they're not good at is doing in the creative spaces everyone's funding the brown pound right because everyone gets into an uber and everyone buys fags from the corner shop.

And everyone's going to a bang and a sheep curry house and getting a shit gel face. Getting your eyebrows threaded by a brown person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you want it done well. Questionable sometimes. Oh my God. I only go to brown women to get my eyebrows threaded.

Same. I love that they troll me so hard when I go get it done. They just troll so hard you know you need to come more regularly really what's happening here is overgrowth yeah tomorrow I'm getting my wax done everything so I've got a date lined up for the following day and I've got sideburns underarms the whole shebang you know it's a whole ordeal and then they always want to take off more and I'm like I'm not even that hairy I just won't grow out now look at this oh but it's really like nothing.

No, babes. This is like one week worth of growth. Wait till I get to like two. Oh, I see. Absolutely. Well, I need to say. I've just got really hairy knees. It's really weird.

Like my legs are not that hairy, but my knees are like, it's like I'm wearing knee pads made of hair. My boyfriend's not into them. He's like, just do the knees, darling. Would you, have you done them have you do you oh no i mean i wax as and when i have five minutes of downtime which i have a one-year-old and a very busy life so no downtime for me hairy knees full life so talking about online dating i've um lined up this date oh wow when's french Okay. Oh, so he's French and he's a dad.

Yeah. Wow. Okay, I didn't clock the dad part. Yeah, I mean, I'm not. I thought you were like daddy. Yeah, so I'm not into any of the daddy stuff. Like I'm not into that. Married?

Well, I don't think so. I mean, that's literally never stopped anyone before. This is very true. No, I don't think I don't think he is um but you how what's your dating experience been online online like what has it been good bad it's like tech helped you in all honesty like when I first came to the UK I mean I just broke up with a boyfriend in IRL one who I met IRL um I didn't work out so I came here and I got on the apps because I didn't well

I didn't really know anyway I had a big friendship group it's you know friends from New Zealand um so I was on the apps and I was having a hellish time like it was fucking awful like I cannot describe to you how so did you meet this guy online? Yeah, I did, yeah. And how did you meet your boyfriend? Right, okay, so you, I mean, I don't know what your experience was like, but I feel like it's very, you've got to sift through a lot of shit

to really get some. Not even gold, silver nuggets. I'm struggling to find the word. Like a bronze. I'm struggling to, yeah, exactly, a bronze. And so having a bad time on the apps. And then, I don't know, something just shifted in me. I felt like I was so desperate to be in a relationship.

Like everyone, I moved here when I was 27. I'm about to be 33. And I was just so desperate. Everyone was in a relationship. I find that really refreshing that you've just said that, like that you were desperate and you're like open about that yeah 100% I feel like I wasted like a lot of years with like somebody that wasn't necessarily right and I was really New Zealand this was in New Zealand and I was like really trying to force fit it and I wanted to recoup

that time I felt like time was running out so um it wasn't until having a really bad time with apps and I was just in a really fucked up place. I was just so desperate. And that desperation was just coming off. Like what I was giving out, I was getting back. So I was on the apps expecting shit. You know, like the online narrative as well about going on the apps is bleak. And so I was just approaching it terribly.

And then the pandemic hit, which I felt was, I mean, it was equally fucked up and helpful personally. But I started meditating. I meditate. This has like gone real deep. Oh, my God. I love that. What kind of meditation?

I just use the Headspace app. Another app. Here we go. You are like online everything. I'm online everything. I was journaling a lot. And I meditated every day for 30 days. This literally sounds like I'm trying to fucking sell you guys something.

But I promise you I'm not. And then I got really straight with myself. And you know when you're trying too hard for something, you're trying to convince even your friends that like, oh, no, I don't really care. Or, oh, this relationship doesn't mean I'm not in love with them. You're in love with them. Like you're obsessed. You really care. And you know, in your heart when you're being authentic. And I felt like I was lying to myself for so long,

but after meditating for all that time, I truly, I had like a breakthrough. I was like, I feel fine. Like I can say that I feel feel fine I'm fine in my own company I'm fine with everything and I genuinely feel good there's nothing to prove here so I got back on the apps and I was expecting greatness I was expecting the way I was expecting somebody who felt the way I felt and I met like the man of my dreams it was so incredible who coincidentally meditated too and I was just like this is like are you still with him now I'm still with him now we moved in together oh wow do you guys uh do you guys meditate together we used to we've really fallen off of late um we really need to get back into it you know I was reading about like tantric

meditation today I don't know if you like you What the fuck's that? You can have meditative sex with somebody. I would love that. Where you rhythmically do the rhythm and it's so rhythmic that it's like an out-of-body experience. Someone would need to show me

how to do that, though. I feel like you'd need to be really... Yeah, you're not good with the rhythms. Unless it's that rhythm. In which case, I'd be fine. You would be. I mean, I'm sure it's a thing i've seen like stuff on tiktok about it but i've never really delved too deeply in it it's probably just like a little

too deep and spiritual tiktok for me you know like it's levitating next i don't know like something out the craft but now that you've met your partner online, your previous partner in New Zealand, you met IRL. Yeah. I mean, can you compare? Like, what do you prefer? Because like you said, you do have to wade through quite literally the shit. It's like that scene from Shawshank Redemption.

You have to go through the sewer of shit. Yeah, it's exactly what it is. To come out clean the other side and, you know, find freedom or find someone. It sounded like you had an epiphany. There should be a hinge ahead, to be honest. Way to the shit. But they're the shit. They just don't know it. Yeah.

I don't know. It's so many things. It's like age as well. I feel like I'm different from two weeks ago, like to who I am now, let alone six months ago and like moving countries. Have you guys ever moved countries before? No, I've not. So you understand what I say when it's like you're kind of like a new version you get to do a reinvention it's amazing yeah it's a reboot my name is Michael nobody knows actually

do you know what that's the other thing about hinge is that like I was going on so many dates that my stories became so boring to me. So I just started lying a hundred percent. Like I just started talking shit. And to the point where like, I don't even know what's happened anymore because I've told so many of them. So true. I think I did that too. I'd like loads of loads of days where I would just in the end get bored of

doing the whole spiel. So finding new things to talk about or like immediately talking about sex, because I felt like that would be a good idea to be like quite clear about what we wanted. So it's like not what I do. Just be like, so, you know, like, what are you doing later? Yeah. I feel like I used on. But I do sometimes think because I met my partner online and I do sometimes think if there was no internet dating,

where the fuck would I be now? Oh my God. Who would I be with? And also I was like, you get introduced to people by your friends and i'm like i look at my friends and i think who would they introduce me to that like i would even rate yeah yeah like you know these people old question right because i went one on a date with a guy he was dating online and he was like when he started dating online he'd found it embarrassing to tell people you were dating online

yeah that was back in the day it was back in the day it was early days early days like 2012 2013 he was like it was a bit embarrassing

he was like seeing something like because it was seen like you couldn't find somebody in real life and now I talk amongst my peers and I'm like

that is the that is the status quo but now it seems lame but now it seems lame if you meet someone in person. I'm sorry, it does. If you're like, yeah, we met at school, I'm like, lame. I think school is like, school is like lost.

School is like, you know what is an urban legend? An urban myth is like meeting someone IRL at a dinner party. I'm like, that still happens? Does it happen? Meeting someone at work? But I look around in my office and I'm like, who would I possibly even have sex with in this building? Also, work romances.

I just came off a HR course. They're really complicated. Oh, right, yeah. You're managing someone. Yeah, you're fucking them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, not right. You're fucking them on the photocopier. You're pretending to be your manager.

There's nothing sexy about the office. I just loved internet dating because it suddenly opened my eyes to what was out there. And you're right, there was a lot of shit, but there was just so many interesting different types of people that I was like, you are not for me. You are someone's glove.

Does not fit this hand. Do you guys not feel like internet dating is a bit like trying to find a film on Netflix? Basically, I'm dating for the first time in my late 30s. And I started dating last year after I broke up with my partner. So I feel I have a completely different attitude to dating in my 30s than I would have done in my 20s when I was riddled with insecurities and I wanted everyone to like me. So I'm so glad I'm dating now. But what I'm finding is that A, it's a minefield. B, it's like trying to find a fucking Netflix film to watch.

Takes forever. Then you're watching the trailers. Then if you have a flatmate, they're like, oh, no, I watched that already. And you're just like, and this is what I do, and I'm totally guilty of it, is Hinge and all the dating apps to me, they're like the dopamine like button. So I just window shop with no intention. Hence why these active chats, you know, these active chats are not because I'm popular. It's because I've literally just been and I'm like, oh, all these people like me when I really want a date. I'll

then hone in and I'm getting better at like honing in on two or three where I like focus in, start a conversation with two or three. Let the kind of, you know, when you like, a hair is like running after a bit of, you know that expression I'm going on about? Do you know what I mean? No. No. Basically.

Sorry, I was like, no. Basically, you've got to focus and laser down to two or three conversations and then you get a hair. I'm really interested in this like dopamine hair. And I wonder, because you're somebody who like, look post on instagram once a year if i remember but you're clearly somebody who posts on instagram all the time and do you still get a dopamine hit from like likes or people kind of commenting and interacting with your page do you still feel that every time because you get it so regularly that does it is it the same i think yes mostly because mine

is so often attached to income so i'm like oh yeah i mean i guess it's like um i mean it's so i think i think i'd be lying if i said i wasn't i feel like everybody is addicted to that like thrill of the chase in some capacity i absolutely am i feel like it's not the way we operate like whether it's online dating or whether it's like Instagram or even like buying trainers you know when the email comes in and it's like you have successfully your order is successful even that phrasing I'm like oh my god I'm successful I spent my own money like what the hell think about this this intrinsic thing of being liked right it's probably some sort of biologically evolutionary thing, but you like, you go to Sainsbury's, you get your pint of milk, your loaf of bread,

maybe some avocado, I don't know, kale. And then the sales assistant says something nice, like was really kind to you. You always remember those strange interactions with people. You feel good about it when you leave. You feel good about it. And the Insta-like, sadly, it's the same thing. Like, I mean, I don't even get any money from it. I'm just like, ooh. So, and it's the same thing like i mean i don't even get any money from it i'm just like oh so and it's the same with dating profiles it's like i don't want to say

validation but it's validation and actually because society sees me as the older woman instagram sees you as an older woman society you're still not even middle-aged but society society does it has aged absolutely society thinks i'm past it and sell myself by date. I don't feel that. I don't feel that. I wouldn't say society, okay, yeah, fine. No, but you know what I mean? Like aunties and old people, I'm not married, I'm older. Like I definitely get it on my dating profiles, like MILF, older ladies.

Do you? Yeah, absolutely. Like you, I don't watch Love Island, but you need to watch Love Island to know how much they age themselves and they're only 25. So I'm like way past it, but I'm all right with that because I feel. Oh my God. There's nothing more tragic than someone who's 25 being like,

my life is over. And I'm like, oh my God. And that is the sentiment. That is what they say to each other. That's actually another thing I hate about like, you know, like Shade Room or Shade Borough.

There's like this consistent narrative that a guy is going to be fucking somebody else or wants to fuck somebody else. Or they're going to be cheating on you. And i think that that feeds in paranoia like shit storm that you are trying to wade through this pretense of like assuming all men are dogs or all like xyz xyz um and i feel like coming back to that whole meditative thing that was that attitude i had to like kind of shake because I was expecting shit I was getting shit back I was like is this guy fucking other people like how how was this working and I just I feel like all of this stuff kind of like feeds into this like paranoia and self-worth and

like even like ageist comments and like the way society sees the society is so inherently ageist with women anyway and I'm totally used to that and that. And I don't feel old at all. In fact, I feel young. So going back to the validation thing. I just feel sad that you're feeling that now because in my head, I'm going to start thinking society thinks I'm old once I hit like 45.

No, society... Like, when are we old? I really think I'm in my prime, guys. That's why I'm confused. But that's the ironic thing and that's the beauty of it, right? I think I'm in my prime. Like, I've never been happier or healthier or fitter.

But absolutely society has made me feel. Now I've got to a point where I don't care and I don't give a fuck. Yeah. 31, 2, 3, 4, 5 were terrible years for me. I was just trying to be happy and trying to like own my skin. But society was like, you're too old for that and you can't do this. And that's going to be given to someone 10 years younger. But the point that I'm making is I think also the reason why I do it because I go for younger guys and that's my phase is that it's almost like a fuck you back to society because I can get those younger guys.

So that's it's almost like a game. Younger men complex. Yeah. I wouldn't say complex. It's a phase. I did tell someone today about my very first Tinder date, where I went on the, it was, I'd been in my house, my new flatmates, it was quite new in that house,

and I was like, I'm going to have a Tinder date. I've never been on Tinder, my very first Tinder date, it was many years ago. And I was like, down the road, it was a French guy actually, and went to the pub, not French daddy, some other guy. I don't know. Could be the same guy. He could be a downer.

I don't know, but I went for a drink with him and um I remember I was wearing like this white blazer and I just I didn't really know why I wore it it was like a really rogue decision last minute where I was like yeah I could be this guy again reinvention tinder new girl and I just I looked like a dweeb and I turned up and he was like super cool super hot and we had one drink and after one drink I was about to be like do you want another and? And he was like, I think I'm going to go. And I remember being like, oh, okay. And then he left. And I was like, sorry, is that how Tinder dating works? It's like, no one's going to fancy me.

This is never going to work. And I remember being like, oh, shit. But it was weird because I wasn't sad. I was doing that thing that I do with the internet a little bit and people from the internet where I'm like, it wasn't real. Oh, I see. Do you know sometimes you're like, it wasn't really real. It didn't really happen. I feel like that's why people treat each other like shit on the internet a little bit and people from the internet where I'm like it wasn't real yeah I see do you know sometimes it wasn't really real I feel like that's why people treat each other like shit on the internet yes I feel like it's like not real life like there's this it's not real feelings yeah it's kind of like there's this it's like a fantasy world we're living in this fake

world where like it's okay to treat people like that it's okay to go I think you've hit the nail on the head when did that happen by the way year was that? Just give me a ballpark. I have no idea. 2014? Okay, so fast forward to 2023. It's that on speed. Yeah. It's that on like, I'm like, all I'm saying is you need to have lizard reptilian skin

to go out and date because the number of times I've been benched, ghosted, someone's just like doing a light like, but just kind of giving me placeholder vibes. And it's just, it's like endless. But I'm okay with it all because i do exactly this or because you don't treat them like people i think it's part of it it's that like also to be honest like i only know you from the internet and when i saw your pro i was a bit nervous to meet you because i was like oh she's gonna judge my hair she's not gonna like my shirt she's really into fashion she's gonna be like who is this woman and i put in my special earrings for you and then I was like you did anyway and then you know you make these assumptions about people that you meet online and you have been wonderful and I've like

fallen massively in love with you and I'm just like you're not you're not what I presumed you would be but that's that's ridiculous isn't it there are things that people do online that are very indicative of how you feel in real life so like ghosting is one thing right but say I don't know I just feel like if your friend hasn't liked a post but you know they've seen it like it indicates there's some kind of hostility there or some kind of issue and then we get caught up in this paranoia and it's just a bit of a I don't even know what it is so like there is getting away with stuff and then there's also like I actually I think it's all one in the same right it's just getting away with weird shit online that is not possible in a real life context it's funny because your online persona is actually someone different I did some tiktoks right that were just not me they're just like silly me being a total fool

having some fun being really silly with poppy and some downtime and I actually look at that and I'm like that that girl looks like quite fun and joyful and in real life I'm really you are fun and joyful I mean you're a bit neurotic but you're so fun and joyful but I think um because I'm a geriatric millennial and on my Instagram I have to channel a character to do the Instagramming I'm kind of becoming au fait with it now but i think we all to a degree i can't take a selfie seriously because i'm like in what context am i taking a picture of myself and that being like a normal scenario i used to feel that way i really used to feel that way but what it was was i was feeling insecure by everybody else that was this is just me personally i was so insecure around the way people were presenting themselves online because I haven't felt secure I I did I had very little self-worth growing up and that was a result

of not seeing myself reflected back so I was projecting all that sort of stuff and I love a selfie yeah do you yeah I love it okay so one of the best things that came from hinge was this guy that I met it didn't work out it was never going to work out, but we ended up just working together. He ended up like employing me basically helped me get a visa to stay here. Wow. And he's like a really large reason as to why Diet Parata has been so successful because he had this jewelry brand and he bought me into it. And, you know, I was on all these email threads and just like learning how to run a business and how to run or how to run a culturally relevant business. And he was taking me places and introducing me to people went to paris fashion

we're doing all this fun stuff amazing and i feel like there's so much more that can come out of just fucking and disappointment what are the cons i mean those are the cons right online dating this like it's this double standard of like how the way you treat people online to the way you treat people in real life it's also we haven't even touched on the fact that like all your other single mates are in the same fucking pit so like the guy that they're chatting to is also the guy that you're chatting to my friend she's on the apps right now and some of the guys she's bringing up i fucking recognize them from when i was on the app like two years ago and it's just like how is this happening yeah

i once snogged a guy who had shagged an ex-housemate of mine on on an app and after we'd snogged he wanted to go on a second day then my old housemate was like i've had sex with him don't sleep with him he's awful in bed and i just didn't see him again because of that one bit of advice you know what you just gave me an idea they need a button that you press a review button that's like and that just says what's the sex link oh like a family tree but like do you think you and i've ever slept with the same person i would love it to be french daddy dick tomorrow oh my god i did not sleep with me He had one drink with me and he was like, bye. You're so open and you just don't give a fuck. Do your parents

and your family and stuff listen to this show? How are you like? Well, my parents don't know about this show. That's why I can be so open. My mum does and we have weird little conversations about it where she was like, so I found this thing on Spotify and you're on Spotify? I'm like, so I found this thing on Spotify and you're on Spotify.

I'm like, mom, why are you on Spotify? You're 75. Yeah. Growing up South Asian, it's really hard to kind of establish that narrative. But it was for me. Like, I felt like I didn't have like a lot of like physical love growing up and I didn't have any verbal love growing up. My parents showed it in like other very strange ways. And so that really hindered my dating experience.

Like, I was really like trying to, you know what's it square pair ground hole like I was just trying to force fit and marry everybody yeah that I had literally everybody like the bummiest dudes the bummiest dudes and I was like I love the phrase the bum, dudes, because it's so Kiwi, but it also just makes me think of a guy with a big bum, which I'm weirdly into. I feel like it's more American. Oh, is it American? I mean, I don't know. Bommiest.

I'm going to say it tomorrow. I'm going to say it tomorrow. I'm going to say it right now afterwards. Yeah, say it in fucking 10 seconds time. I hope French dick daddy is bummy. Actually, no, I don't want you to. No, you can't say it in that context because it's not like scrummy bummy actually no I don't know that's not you can't send in that context because it's not like scrummy about me you've made it sound so English they're losers basically yeah it's like trash um and I just feel that I wish I had more examples

of self-worth and just like bitter examples of relationships as well it's so taboo to be divorced or separated this is literally what all of my most of my female friends who are dating have said this like they internalize all their shit relationships with their fathers or their previous uh husbands boyfriends and then they carry that onto new relationships and it's that expression you said it's just not the right way to do it yeah yeah and i do feel like with Asian women especially in my case like I'm a late bloomer you know I've kind of learned my lessons in life later on and I am you know approaching it with gusto yeah you've reclaimed your sexual identity you've reclaimed yourself but also my insecure like my like I'm secure in myself I feel I'm confident I feel like I know what I'm doing yeah I'm sure there will be hiccups along the way

and I'm sure I'll meet bummy guys. I have met a fair few. But I agree. It's like you take on the relationship, not to get all Freudian, with your father or whatever. And that's what you try and... Also like the South Asian relationships

that you saw growing up, like aunties, uncles. Yeah. Your ideas of what relationships look like. Toxic. Arguing with each other, try and also like the south asian relationships that you saw growing up like aunties uncles yeah your ideas of what relationships look like arguing with each other but also like affection like there was only one uncle and aunt in our entire set of family both my parents one of ten huge one uncle and aunt right who would like snuggle up on the sofa together and even when they did you'd be like slut and then even when they did like they were just like old yeah there was like a big bit of an age difference between them and everyone was like whenever like a wage like undermine romance like romance would

just be like not acceptable whenever we saw halal romance in when i was growing up even the halal ones like when they were married like all the women would be like slut shaming her with her eyes and it was always her i was never him and we'd be like oh they're obviously having too much what's wrong with them like i look back and it is terrible. Like, my mum and dad, when I was married, all I did was argue with my ex-husband. And I thought it was totally normal. Yes. Because I grew up seeing my mum and dad argue like cat and dog.

Oh, my God. It's so funny you say that. I was the exact same. And I was like, this is happiness. It really sets you up for relationship fails. Oh, 100%. You're like, sometimes you're like, you know when you're on a mystic Meg to And I was like, this is happiness. It really sets you up for relationship fails. Oh, 100%. You're like, sometimes you're like,

you know when you're on a mystic Meg to look and be like, you're going to have one failed relationship here where you're going to think he's your dad but he actually does this.

Then you're going to have another guy called Abdul in your 20s. Yeah, but they do that. All the psychics, they do that as well. Like, don't even get me started on like these psychics

that are like this. Because they know. They know. Yeah, yeah. I just mean, maybe we should do that on the next one. Ring up, we'll tell you if it. Like a future hotline that you call up

and you're like, I'm being a babani, right? Let me get your files out. It's all that's going to happen. It's all that's going to happen, yeah. Yeah, I thought relationships were all about getting drunk together and then shouting at each other and that was like passion. And then I met somebody who I would shout at

and then he wouldn't shout back yeah and I'd be like what is going on do you not love me like you're not shouting you're not like arguing with me like this is what this is what love should be and then afterwards I was like he was like it's actually quite exhausting being with you yeah I was like oh god it is when you don't non-asian guys as well they're not used to like your white children your parents shouted at each other or you growing up whether you're Asian, whether you're white, whatever, you understand that as a form of communication of something. So you're like, oh, well, I'll just shout.

And now having a kid as well, I'm like holding my tongue when I want to be like, my mum would have hit me by now. Oh, my God. I'm so scared of raising a kid because I just feel like, I feel like it's such learnt behaviour to communicate by screaming and abuse. It's my two middle names up until 30. Like it's such learnt behaviour to communicate by screaming and abuse. Yes, totally. Is that. It's my two middle names up until 30. I, you know, like I've been in therapy over the last year and it's something that I'm trying to work on.

Plagues us as a people that people can literally go on for so long. Yeah. And that's not exclusive to race or background or whatever. It's just like if you think this is the right way, you can apply it to anyone. If that was your environment from day dot, what else do you have to work with? You're just like, this is what I know.

Exactly. I always say this, but it's like being told your whole life that the grass is blue and the sky is green. You're just working with what you know. But then what you're left with is like therapy. What you're left with is being able to recognize those patterns and sometimes it being really frustrating because you don't necessarily know how to channel it, you know?

Like, you can recognize the behavior. But changing it, it's hard to unprogram. And I'm scared to have kids. Yeah. I'm scared to have kids because I don't know if I can raise – I feel myself doing it to my boyfriend, you know, snapping at things that don't need if I can raise, I feel myself doing it to my boyfriend, you know, snapping at things that don't need to be snapped at,

like trying to force him that the lounge isn't clean enough because we've just, we've lived in it overnight. You know, we're watching a movie, like the lounge doesn't have to be clean. And it's being so hell bit over stuff. I literally have, I literally used to do that with my ex partner.

Like we're just not chill about exactly. I think that's okay. Like, I think it're just not chill about exactly yeah i think that's okay like i think it's okay to be imperfect and i think it's okay to be like it annoys me that the sock that you just took out the laundry basket it's normal and your kids will know that you're not fucking perfect and i think that's okay no no no i love my parents they are completely imperfect i still love them but it's it's constant it's different i think what we're trying to say is someone is constantly nagging at you it's like they've just come from work they've just sat down and you're like that's not done that's not done we're we're in sorry i'm in well i think you're saying the same thing we're in the wrong here we're like

you have done this and what and it's like i've just i've just been in my living room and i'm like and we're like just chill the fuck out it's so hard to chill by the way I think as a South Asian child of immigrants it's really hard to chill like actually meditation is probably going to be that new centred thing that like actually weirdly came from Asia

and like is now this kind of West Indian but we don't apply it generally like the general consensus is just not I think it's really like I'm trying to think of days I saw my parents just relaxing. Never.

Never. Do you know what's crazy? My dad has this business, right? My mum like helps him and it's their business. My dad has never taken a sick day. What? And it's almost like going back to that online world. Like you're living in a fantasy world where like

you can't even enjoy your life. Like it is so bizarre. Even, um, I don't know if like dishes was a big thing in your house, but like my mom would never leave a dish in the sink overnight. Like it would be the whole kitchen needs to be clean,

completely clean, not just clean, clean, clean. Everything. You could eat off the floor clean. You could eat off the toilet floor in my house. Oh my God.

A hundred and fifty percent. It would be cleaner than some of my flats That clean. I like that now though. It would be cleaner than some of my flats. But are you like that now? Yes, I am. Oh my God, me too. We've just become all the heads. No, you've not seen my flat.

We're like binging about them. Yeah, she would never do that. It's like, sorry, I do that now. Yeah, no, we all do that. I live with another Asian, and our cleaner, who is a male, we have a male cleaner, and I'm so proud of ourselves.

Okay, progressive. Exactly. And he, I was like, whose house is the cleanest then? And he's like, your house. I was like, shut up. Like, what about our house is clean?

And then I'm like sitting there getting notes like, why is this, why is this giving us a rush? Why is this? But our mothers were house proud and it said something about their personality.

It said something about what they valued and that is something that is intrinsically. It also said something about your class. Yeah. You have a clean house.

You won't have much money, but your house is clean. Yeah, I think so. It's that one thing. It's the one thing you control and it's the one thing you have. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Brown girls do it too. And now it's time for... Shagging the aunts!

Or shaggingany Aunties. You've reached the Shaggany Aunties call centre. Want advice you can't ask your real aunties for? Like, how do you ask for what you want in bed? Not sure which hole is a goal? Where do anal beads really go? Have you been faking orgasms your whole adult life accidentally called your boss daddy is your long-time love not going down south for more than just the tip we're here for you yes you and you and you

okay let's see what the dilemma is this week, Poppy. Oh, this is an existential one. Short but sweet. Should sex be meaningful? Ooh. No. Oh, it can be. It can be. Should it be?

But it doesn't have to be all the time. Mm-hmm. No. I mean, it means something. Like, to be horny means something. To have sex with somebody means something. But I think this listener's saying is giving me deeper meaning. That's what I'm taking from it. It doesn't have to be all the time.

No way. In fact, I think as Asians, the way we were raised is that sex should always have some sort of deeper meaning, which is why we never fucking had sex. Because we were like, the person we have sex with has to be our husband, has to be someone we fall in love with, has to be someone our parents approve of, where we could just have fun and shag.

I think everything in moderation like chocolate you should have meaningful sex and you should have non-meaningful sex i think it's up to you because i think there are people out there who don't want to have sex with people that they don't have that means it means nothing well exactly you're like actually i think that's okay i think it's okay to have a one night stand that's fine but if you're somebody who literally doesn't want to have a one night stand because you ascribe a lot of meaning to the act of someone putting the p in the v but then i'm saying then i think you set yourself up for failure because then you're like you're constantly looking for the high bar and it needs to mean something and there are so many there are so many men or women that that person's going to have sex with where it doesn't mean anything to them and then they're

going to let themselves down oh good point oh so when you're saying it's meaningful is it has to be meaningful to the both of you absolutely yeah me. Oh, so when you're saying is sex meaningful, is it has to be meaningful to the both of you? Absolutely. Yeah, you're right. That's a good point. Otherwise you're fucking yourself over constantly.

Yeah, man, sex is meaningless. And there you are, listener. We hope we helped you in this week's episode of Brown Girls Do It Too. Thanks for listening. If you have any thoughts, questions or dilemmas

for shagging the aunties, you can email us at browngirlsdoittoo at bbc.co.uk or you can send a WhatsApp or a voice note on our new number 07968 100 822 07968 100 822

Bye! See ya! Join me, The Graph Mentor, for a podcast that platforms the Black British stories that aren't often told by the mainstream. It's called If You Don't Know. Expect the biggest laughs, the biggest facts, and some pretty big guests.

Hey, yo, this is Sean Pardigas. I'm over all the life. I live in Scotch. It's your girl ZZ Mills, and I'm here on the If You Don't Know podcast. Get to know, baby! If You Don't Know, available on BBC Sounds.