Brown Girls Do It Too - B****, I'm a Mother (Of Sorts)

Episode Date: May 31, 2024

How do you know what's right for you: to become a parent or to take the road less travelled? Is one choice more fulfilling than the other? And why do any of us have to justify our choices anyway?In this episode, Poppy & Rubina discuss motherhood, childlessness and whether any of it is really a choice.Have a message for Poppy and Rubina? If you’re over 16, you can message the BGDIT team via WhatsApp for free on 07968100822. Or email us at [e-mail] you're in the UK, for more BBC podcasts listen on BBC Sounds: bbc.in/3UjecF5

BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. Old MacDonald had a farm, E-I-E-I-O. And on that farm he had a pig, E-I-E-I-O. With an oink-oink here and an oink-oink there. OK, this could go on, so forget Old MacDonald, but we do have adult content here and strong language there. With a swear-swear here and a swear swear there. This is a podcast about sex. At least it started off like that. Now we talk about everything.

Everything is sex. And sex is everything. And that includes our mistakes, our heartbreaks, and our hot, hot, hot takes. I'm Rubina, and I choose to be the type of person who picks up litter and pops it in the bin. Are you that person now? Absolutely. You proud of that person? I got massively, yeah. This world is disgusting. Humans are gross.

I'm helping us all out. Would a 25-year-old would have done that? No. She would have stubbed her cigarette onto the floor. I was thinking about

all the cigarette butts I just threw onto the floor in my 20s. Yeah, fair. Now I owe the world back. This is what you're doing? Yeah, me and sometimes my two-year-old

is finding cigarette butts on the beach and giving them to me and I'm like, I don't know how I feel about that. But at least he's clearing up. This is your community service. Yeah. I'm Poppy and I choose to be a gossip I'm like, I don't know how I feel about that. But at least he's clearing up. This is your community service. Yeah.

I'm Poppy and I choose to be a gossip, a cow, a slapper, basically a brown pat butcher. So that's who I am. But I was a pie chart. Do you have some pat butcher earrings? You're not wearing any today,

but you do have quite a few. I've got my hoops on. Yeah, you're more like Daniela Westbrook today. So as I introduce myself as part gossip, part cow, part slapper, I do have some tea for you.

Okay. Okay, so... You've really been building this up. I have been building this up and now... I'm just going to tell you this thing that I'm going to save for the podcast. I've been like literally

WhatsApping the whole team and obviously you're in the WhatsApp group and I'm like, I can't tell you, I'm going to save it. But now I'm like, oh shit, have I really built this up?

What if it's like an anticlimactic story? It sounds like it's going to be. If it's a story from you, it's definitely going to be like it's really great in my head and then it came out

and I wasn't so sure so I was in the arms of one guy and we just had sex and he has a message to give to you he really fancies you

post sex post sex are you fucking kidding me? That is unbelievable. Literally in bed, naked. And he was like, are you a co-host for Rino? She's fucking hot. No.

Yeah. And then a very similar thing happened with him. I just went on a date with him, but same message. So I've got two messages from two boys, one I've fucked and one I've dated, who really fancy you. Wow. And I couldn't be more proud and happy. That's so great.

It's good to know that if my partner dies that... You've got options. I've got options. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Always good to have options, actually. Don't you think? Yeah, it's always good to have backups. You want to know that there's multiple people that fancy you.

I mean, I do. When I was growing up, there was only one person that fancied me. And let me tell you about him. He had diabetes. Yeah. How old was he? He was a 10-year-old with diabetes. He had diabetes. Yeah. How old was he? He was a 10 year old with diabetes. He had diabetes?

Yeah. Oh, because he could be born with diabetes. He was the only one who fancied me. At 10? You know, you want to feel like many people fancy you, is my point. Yeah. And I've never... Well, these guys absolutely do.

That's great. And what is brilliant is it never felt weird. Okay. That maybe is the weird part of the story. It didn't feel weird. It didn't feel weird. Imagine you having sex with someone and they're like,

oh, I fancy your mate. That in any other context would be weird. I think the day that someone's having sex with you and actually acts like it says my name instead of your name. Oh my God, I literally can't wait for that day to happen when it's happening. That is weird.

That is weird. I don't mind that. But like, yeah, these two guys are just like, the date was pretty much about you. What was it? But you got a good chunk of airtime. And I was like, it felt so normal and natural. And the other guy was just like...

Didn't me and you were just like moulding into one person? One person, yeah. The more we do this. Yeah, I sometimes even wonder, were they imagining you while they're having sex with me? And again, I'm weirdly okay with that. Oh my God. Literally, the first guy was like,

kept talking about how pretty you were, like loved your vibe, loved your nose. And we were in bed holding each other, talking about you. This is good. I'm sorry, but the nose does need a shout out, guys. Because the nose, the nose is very unique. What I have on this face is...

Kooky, eccentric, like you've got all the best adjectives. Oh, that's so nice. Yeah. That's making me feel really great. Whilst I was in there arms naked. And we'd just come. In fact, I actually did come that time. Oh, good, good.

Good for you. So I've obviously spilled the tea, but you've got some way bigger gossip that you've been keeping from the listeners. I am six months pregnant. Ma-ma-ma-ma-ma-ma! Yep. God fingers!

And I am growing another penis inside me, as if one wasn't enough. Baby boy! Having a boy in, like, not very long away. So I got this badge that I ordered from the internet that's in the kind of symbol of... The tube one? No, it's in the symbol of Greggs, but it says pregs.

It's good. Do you wear it on the tube? I actually can't find it, but yes, it's the one that I wear in public transport. Do people know that you're pregnant on the tube? No, the only way it but yes it's the one that I wear in public transport Do people know that you're pregnant on the tube? No

the only way to like when you're pregnant you just have to keep holding your tummy and be like yeah that's a baby it's not just like a food baby

Yeah so I I nearly gave up my seat for someone but I don't think she's pregnant Oh it's hard to make the judgment that's why you have

to wear the badge so it's clear Yeah yeah yeah You get like a hero you know like somebody who's sitting in the middle of the carriage Oh that's me

and they're like excuse me you can come and take my seat and they're like and they're shading the people sitting in the priority seats because they. Oh, that's me. And they're like, excuse me. You can come and take my seat. And they're like, and they're shading the people sitting in the priority seats because they're like, I sit up.

And I give up, I give the evil eyes to someone else. I'm like, you want to give that seat up for her? Oh, that's me. I'm like middle seat hero. Yeah, yeah. Do you want, and like, I really want my son,

new son and current son to be like that too. Because I think my partner isn't like that. Not because he's not like a nice guy I genuinely think he's a really lovely man but he's not socially aware like he doesn't keep

his eyes open to people around him whereas I'm like pregnant woman old person somebody's been dumped somebody here like I'm actually

I've been dumped give me a seat I feel like I've got superhero Spidey sexes of everyone's vibe in the room without letting them even see I'm looking at them so I know that getting like I've been dumped give me a seat I feel like I've got superhero spidey sexes of everyone's vibe yeah yeah in the room without like letting them even see I'm looking at them so I know that that's a superpower like today on the bus I could hear a woman talking to her friend

and she'd had a panic attack last night it was in the arms of her mother crying last night and her friend was just like I'm not really sure what's going on with us then she was like I'm coming to see you and then like that was their whole dynamic and I had the whole conversation really good eavesdropping you do you not listen to music when you're out and about or a podcast sometimes I do yeah I mix it up right

oh yeah no I don't mix it up I'm constantly listening to music oh really but I can still see and look but yeah you get different looks

like the I'm pregnant do you wanna and then the old person and then the old person with the walking stick I saw a couple today just have like

this really long lingering hug. And I was like, are they saying goodbye? Are they saying hello? Maybe they just had like a whole week together. Maybe they haven't seen each other in months. You know, I was just trying to like reimagine their story. I think in terms of badges, I'd quite like I've had a shit day. Can you get up?

Badge. Or what about just like weak ankles? Weak ankles. Can't stand. I thought a really good badge for telling everyone you're pregnant isn't about baby on board. It's about like growing an additional organ, which everyone just totally ignores in the whole pregnant period.

You're like, I have grown from scratch an additional organ. Would you say your baby was an organ though? No, no, no, no, no. The baby is in there. And then the placenta is an organ. It's an entire thing entire thing didn't even realize that it's like and it's like the size of the baby it's like the size and it is the thing that is keeping the baby alive because the baby's just attached by like an umbilical cord to the placenta

so it's like floating yeah how is this pregnancy different to the first one I don't know if it is that different I felt really sick at the start it's kind of the same shit same shit just different baby same shit same body different baby yeah Same shit. Same body. Different baby. Yeah. Yeah. I'm in like a good place though. I'm feeling really like strong with it. Yeah.

Like I'm cycling and I went to the sea yesterday and I feel like I carried, I carried my friend's child who hit his knee and he's like eight and I was like carrying his eight year old. I was like, this is crazy. Like you just, you just develop so much strength when you're pregnant and your body is doing this incredible thing. So you're just like really, I feel a bit superheroic in some ways. Well you're growing something. It's kind of... Yeah, but all your senses are stronger. You're in this really weird protective state

as well. So you're like a little bit more alert. There's loads of interesting psychology of what's happening to your brain and body when you're pregnant. But yeah, I'm feeling like powerful. But not all pregnancies are like that and my whole pregnancy hasn't been like that like at the start I was really angry and then I've definitely had like more tears in the last six months than I had in the previous six months of not being pregnant right because your hormones like do you get morning sickness now that passes after the first trimester normally but some women have it the whole way through I mean I am not somebody to ask about the pregnancy advice for other people.

But yeah, mine was fine. It was okay. I think also that's why I've come round for a second quite quickly after the first, because I enjoyed my pregnancy and my birth story was fun. How old are you now? You're like 36. My mum at 36 has had, already would have had six of us by then. She would have had six of you. All six of us. All six of you by 36.

So you think about like her experience at fucking 35 and yours as a mum and mine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm basically my brown pat butcher pie chart being a fucking, you know, I'm in my slapper era. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fuck. That's crazy. Isn't it insane? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fuck. That's crazy. Isn't it insane? Yeah, yeah.

God. I mean, my mum had me at 40, which was like really late, really late. And she met my dad really late as well. So it's kind of like, shit, let's just have kids because it's something we both want. Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy, like the choice and the decision to have a kid and then the age that you think that you're ready to do it. Yeah. Because like me 10 years ago, no, no way would I have been ready to have a kid.

Like me 10 years ago was like all about me. Yeah. Like I couldn't even really get into a relationship then because I was like, I don't have space for somebody else. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's just 10 years ago. That's what I'm going through now. Because I did everything in reverse order, right?

Yeah. One of our mutual friends has a podcast and she asked me to send her a voice note about what life looked like for you 10 years ago and what life looks like now. And it's funny, when I sent her this voice note, I was thinking about you, actually, and me and our lives. Like, 10 years ago, I knew I was going to have babies

and I knew I was going to get married. I knew that for a fact. Yeah. Like gravity, like oxygen. And it's so wild to me that I've somehow rebelled, rebelled all the things that I knew I was going to do. Does that make sense? Like I never, ever in a billion years, Rubina, thought I was going to have the life that I'm leading right now and be happy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ever. I think that is absolutely incredible,

isn't it though? Like you just, you can never predict where your life's going to go. And that's like, that's also why I kind of love being alive, not to be like cheesy,

but also why I'm interested in life and having another kid because it's like, you have no idea. Everything is so unpredictable. Taking, having a baby is like a massive risk to your body,

to like its health. You just don't know. But every day you do shit that's risky. Like you're just like, well, maybe I'll live here. Maybe I'll take this job. Maybe I'll do health. You just don't know. But every day you do shit that's risky. Like you're just like, well, maybe I'll live here. Maybe I'll take this job. Maybe I'll do this. Maybe I won't speak to this person.

Maybe I will speak to that person. And all of those things like trigger off different paths. I totally agree. Like I was chatting to my friend Anthony about like whether I would be just as happy without kids or with kids. And I really think I would just be just as happy. I love that you said that because when I meet, and it's not often, but when I meet mums with kids and dads with kids who look at women like me who choose to be childless,

there's an air of not condescension, but like, not condescension, not the right word, but like, are you sure? Because children will change your life. Of course children will change your life. That's inevitable. But this is the idea of you're missing out. There is this big void to fill. Like, you're just partying, partying but you're gonna get bored I was in Glasgow the other day I was

shooting up there and I was sitting in a cafe working and these two lads were from Newcastle they were sitting next to me and they were on a stag do like I thought they were older than me but they were like fucking 35 and they were they both had children and they were asking about me and I was like I'm gonna be nearly 40 next year and they're like well you don't look it blah blah blah all that stuff and I was like I'm just living my best life now and they were asking about me and I was like, well, I'm going to be nearly 40 next year. And they're like, well, you don't look it, blah, blah, blah, all that stuff. And I was like, I'm just living my best life now. And they were like, in that kind of patronizing, you can't really sustain it. You know, after a while, like kids will change your life. And it's just such, shut the fuck up, bro.

I think also it's a really interesting argument, you know, and it doesn't make any sense because what they're saying to you is like, you don't know what it's like to have kids. So you'll never know this thing here. And so this thing that I have you're never going to know and this for me is happy but the reverse can be said of you

you have gone on to have this life and I'll never know this thing and that's the maddest thing you don't know what it is that you're missing so what the fuck

but you're the first person I've literally met that's like I could be happy doing this thing but I also could be happy doing this thing I think so too and you know part of that sounds like I hate my kids and I absolutely don't I absolutely don't I absolutely love my life but I'm not deluded enough to believe that my choice

yeah and my life is better than anyone else's because that's like mad yeah that's like a mad thing to think and also like so one one argument might be like the love thing but like like as in like you have this really unique thing that you love, but like you have lots of people in your life that you love. Yeah, but even I've accepted that. You're the one who said that to me. That's why I brought it up because you're the one who said, I will never know the love. I just don't think that that love is so unique

that you can't get that from someone else either. Yeah, I think a love that a mother has for their child or a father has for their child is just un- I have seen my friends with their dogs, okay? It's next level. for their child or a father has for their child is, is just, I'm never, I have seen my friends with their dogs. Okay. It's next level. I'm just telling you like,

you don't know why I'm missing because you just don't know. Like I'm telling you, I've seen it. I've seen people behave like to their dogs better than I could behave, behave to my two year old. Like it's, it's just like that. And also the idea of love,

like what you love, how you love it, how deep you love it, what you want from love. It's just like, it's up to you what you just like. But I suppose I can, I will experience, I hope, or have all the different spectrums of love. But I know I will never experience. But then fuck, I forgot.

I've got biological children running around. I'm a fucking egg donor. So maybe I'll fucking then lock on my door and I'll learn to love them and hopefully not fuck them. Also, you've got like five siblings. One of them will have a baby. Yeah, exactly. Chances are. You'll be an auntie. You'll be an auntie. that'd be weird. Also, you've got like five siblings. One of them will have a baby. Yeah, exactly. Chances are. You'll be an auntie.

You'll be an auntie. You'll be an auntie. You're already an auntie. Like, you know, it's funny because a lot of the friends that I have who have chosen not to have children, there's a bit of a disappointment in me

because I'm like, but you'll be such a good parent because you're so good with me. Like, you're so good at looking after me. But then I'm also like, thank God there are people like you in the world because it means that our kids

will get the attention from people like you. And that's amazing for all of us who do have kids because it's just like, thank God there are people like you in the world because it means that our kids will get the attention from people like you. And that's that's amazing for all of us who do have kids. Because it's like, yeah, I feel I would feel very comfortable sending my kid to London to like have a weekend with you. Yeah. I think you just do all the right stuff. Yeah. I think you already do as well.

Like, I'm very happy with my decision. But I mean, honestly, like car, house, babies, that classic Asian dream, you know? Well, it's not just Asian, it's fucking society. And also, this is why I've been a bit confused about like discussing this episode as a choice. Because did I make my choice based on this is Rubina, this is what Rubina wants to do with her life? Or did I base it on societal pressure? Like part of the reason I wanted to have my first child was because my mom is very elderly. And I wanted her to like have that for her as well.

So was it really about me? Yeah. Was it about what I really wanted? Like also like I don't think given a different man, a different partner, and if he didn't want it, maybe I would have been talked out of it. But I was with somebody who wanted it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're not choices.

They're like kind of compromises and weird decisions you make in the moment. Yeah. But society has definitely had an impact on me. And I'd be lying if I said that that's not a factor in my choice. And it's not all 100% down to you, right? Like how much of me is me and how much of it is society, our community influencing us? Did you think this was going to get like a philosophy lesson? I didn't think it was going to take a philosophical turn no I didn't what was the first thing that you did

where you realized oh my god I'm adulting like before becoming a parent which is I think is probably one of the biggest signs of adulting when did you realize you're like I'm not 22 year old Rubina stubbing out cigarettes on the fucking road awful don't report me um I think it's probably when I was dumped in my late 20s by 2027 and then I had to go and like find my way yeah and then I was like okay I need to go find a room and a job because I'd given up my job and like I basically was in like a place where I was in no man's land nothing was happening and when I was dumped I was like shit I have to move home and then I moved home and then just like I'm just not somebody who can live at home I don't have that relationship with my parents lucky if you, because I was there for one month.

I was like, OK, to either kill myself or actually go and find a life. And I, you know, I found a room and I found a job and I started just like looking after myself in this really purest way. And it was just me. Yeah. And I was like, OK, this is this is adulting. This is like it. You know what was adulting for me? What?

Meal prep. This is so crazy yeah like buying food bulk buying bulk buying and then cooking on a Sunday

for Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday and I know this is so stupid but I'm like I'm an adult and I'm now looking for a flat

I'm like this is on my own no partner to help me or guide me or basically do all the fucking admin for me I'm just like where do you want me

to sign babes you're the eldest of like how many siblings 1600 people there's 6 of you 1600 there's 6 of you right we all have only

child syndrome we're like you shouldn't have been born and because you're the oldest and like what are their age ranges and you kind of did look after them

growing up didn't you yeah yeah well 38 36 33 32 26 and 23. Wow.

So that's 15 years. Your mum was an impressive lady. Really. Natural births, popping them out. Wow. Do you know if she needs a tenner lady or is she just like good? I think she could probably do with a tenner lady. Yeah.

In fact, I think she did have a few tenner ladies. My mum and dad, I've seen condoms underneath their pillow when I've made their bed so I'm like them yeah so like why the fuck when you're using a johnny because they wanted six kids no each of you was a special flower and then one of them okay one of them was an accident oh right because she was does that one know yeah we told her a million times but you're you're quite a mother figure to me and like you've been quite mothering to them I thought I'm a mother figure on my dates're quite a mother figure to me and like you've been quite mothering to them haven't you I sort of

I'm a mother figure on my dates you're a mother figure to everyone I feel like with my friends she's like have you drunk water

how are you getting home do you want to text me when you get home and then she'll like put you in the Uber and then she'll talk to the Uber driver for 10 minutes

so you need to like take her home and you need to make sure she's okay and if you do anything to her I'll just kill you okay so what we're

going to do is like and I'm like completely sober in the back of a car being like I think it's okay I think he's fine absolutely not so I'm like what's the registration plate okay it's that guy I'm like I've screen grabbed your license plate mate okay yes yeah it's so nice that you're like that though but I think it's again going back to whether that was me that decided that I think I just go into it because it's all I know. It is all I know. And it's not just my five siblings.

It's all the cousins we had to babysit. All the aunties on a Saturday would go shopping. It was like their night out, you know, brunch, but like watch poor market. And, you know, the kids would be looking after the younger kids. You know what I mean? And so it's all I knew really and I and I think it massively has informed my decision to be childless because being a parent when you've chosen not to be a parent or

a guardian or a third parent is really really tough really tough and I think the way my parents raised me was you know god I don't want to get dark but like my parents were emotionally abusive and I think and I definitely wasn was most emotionally abusive to my sisters. And I am, there's so much shame and regret. And they've forgiven me and they're like, you're amazing. And, but I carry a lot of that. And I feel like I've done my time. I've done my community service.

You're doing, like you're doing with your cigarette butts. I'm like, I've done my time with the kids. I'm done. And I really do think that you have this DNA. You're either, you know that expression, you're either born to be a mother. You're born to be a mother. People tell you that all the time. know that expression, you're either born to be a mother. You're born to be a mother. People tell you that all the time. But I also think you're born to not be a mother.

If you don't want to, if you don't feel maternal, like I'll be a great auntie. But all that natural instinct thing is just bullshit as well. Because what about all those mums that foster? Exactly, or can't have kids. And it's like you just set women up for failure all the time. And especially when you're Asian. I was programmed from literally zero from

as young as i can remember that you are going to be a mother you have to have babies like it's it's that simple so imagine those for those women who can't who are having ivf and ivf in our community such a taboo it's just stigma well when i became an egg donor i had loads of women messaging me saying i'm doing ivf and i am really embarrassed and I can't tell anyone about it like we just we put so much pressure on women to just not just motherhood everything

careers and it's just like oh yeah and that whole you know you can have it all you can have a good career and you can be like it's bullshit

it's bullshit you do both half-heartedly and then you get you're guilty because you're always at work not taking care of the kid and then your kid's suddenly old and you're like

where the fuck was I I think the true secret is just be shit at your job just be a bit shit at your job for like five to ten years but just maintain it just so you're there so you're like your performance review is always a b yeah exactly exactly just cruise control every year yeah yeah yeah yeah and then just like enjoy your family life if that's what you choose to do or do the job thing but like i think if you want to do both, it's a lie. It's a lie for someone to tell you you can do both of them.

We always say to each other, mediocre brown people are E equals equality. Yeah, exactly. But you can't, because we have to work four times as hard to be half as good. You know, I really respect that you've chosen not to have kids. And that's like, I think it's a really badass decision. And actually, when other women come and speak to me, I'm like, you should speak to Poppy. And actually, when you had frozen your eggs,

I had lots of people come and ask me about asking you. And I was like, just speak to her. Do you feel like pressure because you decided not to have kids to have some sort of like incredible over the top life? Because it's like, well, you chose not to have kids. So what are you doing with your time? Yeah, that's really true. Also, what are you doing with your time?

Meal prepping, clearly. I think yes. But because I'm like, am I allowed to say this about myself? Because I'm like quite an extrovert and I've always, even if I had been with child or not, I'm always like live life to the fullest. You get one life, you get one life. Carpe diem. Yeah. Clueless, like seas every day.

And life is about memories and experiences and i don't know i just look at my mum and i feel so depressed when i look at my mum and my dad like their life is so insular they literally live in their bedroom living room and kitchen they don't go out they don't have any friends and i guess i see that and i'm like i want the opposite of that i want you know and i probably don't travel as much as I'd like to probably, but I do think with women who choose to be childless, they then have to make up for it by being kooky or a larger than life character or eccentric.

Or they have to be like super hot as well. They're like, you mums, you can go down your dowdy road with your like flabby flaps, but me. They have to be an astronaut or a scientist or like a noble prize winner or like fulfill some sort of role and actually you can just meal prep and watch eastenders yeah there's nothing wrong with that no it's true i wanted to ask you something do you ever find yourself being judgmental instinctively of other women's choices because yes all the time all the time I have to catch myself all the time and be like

that's where does that come from yeah in what scenarios are you judgmental I'm judgmental about everything I'm judgmental about the mums

who don't go back to work and then I catch myself being like but why and I'm judgmental sometimes about the women who choose not to have children because I'm like

but why and then I catch myself being like both of those decisions are perfectly fine and have nothing to do with how I'm like but why and then I catch myself being like both of those decisions are perfectly fine and have nothing to do with how I feel about myself like why do I care

but you're really quick when somebody does something that's not your decision on your choice you're like well what's wrong with my choice and you're just defensive about your choice

and that's the judgement that's where the judgement is rooted in and it's not about you it's not about you it's got nothing to do with you my judgement is oh god it's obviously not the women who choose to have children.

That's absolutely fine. It's the women who rely on their men for money. I'm like, hmm. Yeah, that's a specific sore point for you. It really is because they could divorce you. You could leave them with nothing. You're then on your own feet. You're on your own.

You have to create this identity. You have to make this identity you have to make up you have to start from scratch and I'm just like I don't know and I have to check myself with that all the time yeah why are you a stay-at-home mum of course there's nothing wrong with it and if you're a stay-at-home mum you're amazing and my mum is a stay-at-home I think it comes from my mother god my mother really she was a stay-at-home mum for six and I know if she spoke English she would have had a very different life and I think my mum hated her life being a stay-at-home mum so when I look at women who have the option to not be a stay-at-home mum why have you chosen that but of course she could be

doing it consenting and happy and her a 35 year old woman now is living a different life to the 35 year old woman that my mum was yeah Yeah. You know, 20 years ago. I actually think the money thing is really interesting because I feel that too. Because for me, the stay-at-home mum thing is like, well, then who's in charge of the money and who's making money? And what happens if he leaves you and then you don't even have a job or a good enough CV because you've got to then try and get back into the jobs market? It's like, it's actually really difficult to be a stay-at-home mum

and you need a partner who's going to balance that out. So in my head, I'm like, you must have had to jump a lot of mental hurdles to get to that point. My judgment is ingrained from seeing aunties who were forced to be at home. Like my auntie wanted to work

and my dad wouldn't let her. And they're so bitter with us because we work, we go out and they had us, you know, aunties growing up in the 60s, 70s were forced to do so much. And so now I think that's where it comes from but I do have to constantly check myself and I do I do I do I do but yeah there is there is that sort of judgment yeah part of it is sometimes just because you're

quite happy with your choice and so someone's making an alternate choice you're like yeah what but you could be having this thing over here yeah it's like that's that's what's the ridiculous thing it's like you just you cannot compare yourself to other people i think oh i'm jealous of the time thing yeah so jealous of the time thing because having kids is like really really the time just goes and i feel like my life is just sped up everything is like running from one thing to another to another like the days that i get to lie in because like luckily i have a partner who like lets me do that once a week yeah it's just like I wake up naturally and I'm like oh my god this used to be my like every weekend yeah like even like a hangover for me I mean I'm currently pregnant it's like

not a hangover like a hangover and then like looking after child no no that's another reason why I chose to be childless because I do hungover often and I'm like my my friends with kids have said taking care of a child with a hangover is the worst feeling it's the worst thing to do and I'm like you play that you play this song called like sleeping bunnies where you're like see the bunny sleeping and then everyone goes on the floor and it's a really creepy creepy song and then you pretend to fall asleep together but then there's another bit where it's like they're so still are they ill like what the fuck that's actually a nursery rhyme and then it goes wake up soon and then it goes hop a little bunnies hop up and you're like oh my god we're hopping we're hopping in my head my head i'm gonna explode i'm gonna throw up in your

face it's not good oh my. After doing it six times, I'm not going to do it again. And those five times have been with me. Yeah, exactly. I literally don't know how you do it. My friend does it as well

and I want to vomit just listening to that. But do you find when you meet childless couples, they're like, oh, we're going on holiday again.

So I met this gay couple very recently and I had my two-year-old and they were like a friend of a friend holiday again so I met this gay couple very recently and I had my two-year-old and they were like a friend of friends we were just being introduced to them out like just out and about um and then we were talking about the area that we were living because they live there as well and they were just going on about all the restaurants that they've been to and like going on about all the places that they've the hot spots they visited and I found myself being like well we've been there yeah I've been there yeah that place is delicious if you

tried this place and I was like going because I was like they were just making this presumption that maybe we we weren't going to all the nicest restaurants anymore and I was actually yeah we have yeah we have then they went to a new restaurant opened up quite recently and my partner and I had walked in in the daytime with our child and we're like oh yeah we should come and have like glass of cheese wine you know all that stuff let's do that at some point and they were like yeah we went last night and I was like it's like a weird competition and it was a weird competition but I was like

actually I feel like sometimes the energy of somebody who's like we're really fulfilled that comes from a different place I don't even think

it's about them not having kids it's just like where they were in that moment that sometimes they feel like they need to project

and I did the same right right right well I also think there's some silent war between people who choose to be childless and people with kids but it doesn't have to be a competition.

No. It literally isn't a competition. And it really upsets me that some friends I've had who have decided not to have kids have peeled off a little bit. And the ones that have kids are the ones that have been a bit more engaged. Yeah. Like, you just notice that. The ones that want to ask you out for dinner are the ones that also have children. And then it's like, I'm chasing my friends who don't.

When I'm like, what who don't when I'm like what's going on we used to hang out all the time what's happening yeah but the thing is but then I was like I don't want to talk about your kid and I'm like I don't even talk about that much well honestly but we think the moment you have a child it's it's the formula of three child out of London never gonna see you again yeah equals that's just but that's crazy like yeah it's just not like but then another thing is the moment they bring the kids along the dynamic changes so you're never just one-on-one with your friend anymore oh yeah yeah and then we sound selfish for saying that no no no parents

want that too okay parents totally understand that when they come out with you and their kid is there that's not the same thing as getting to spend time with you yeah yeah that's like come and hang out my kid for a bit and then the kid should go. Okay, great. Yeah, 100%. Like, catching up one-on-one is so crucial. Crucial.

But we, as childless people, You know what? That's where I judge people. That's where I judge people. People who never meet you one-on-one, people who always bring their partner or people who always bring their kids and you're like,

hello, what's going on? Are you not moving the fucking room? Yeah. Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. Okay, it's now time for the Shaggy Aunties. You've reached the Shaggy Aunties call centre. Want advice you can't ask your real aunties for?

Like, how do you ask for what you want in bed? Not sure which hole is a goal? Where do anal beads really go? Have you been faking orgasms your whole adult life? Accidentally called your boss daddy? Is your long-time love not going down south? For more than just the tip, we're here for you. Yes, you.

And you. And you. Please remember to ask the bill payers permission before calling us. Shaggy aunties are not medical professionals and bear no responsibility for the consequences of your actions. So, this week we've got a listener dilemma. Still pays permission before calling us. Shaggy aunties are not medical professionals and bear no responsibility for the consequences of your actions. So this week we've got a listener dilemma, a question for your shaggy aunt spot, or maybe even a possible subject for a whole podcast.

All right, mate, calm down. We just met. I would love to know whether, for women, size matters. If it does, which do you think is more important, length or girth? What a question. By the way, I love your podcast. It's so refreshing to hear women talking so openly about sex.

Keep up the good work. I think one of the meanest things that some women do about men is talk about their dick sizes. But then on the flip side, I'm like, women have shit lives and men are shit to women. It's going to be over your dick size, bitch. So I would say girth. I would say going to have one thing over you. It's going to be over your dick size, bitch. So I would say girth, I would say A, dick size is important.

Yeah. And girth for me is more important than length. Although the guy who really liked you, fancied you, and I was totally okay with it, has the perfect dick size and I've told him. Wow. And how long is that? I would say erect,

it's probably like about seven or eight inches. Wow. Yeah, because when I deep, I can deep throat now. When I deep throat, there's still stuff left. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

My lips are not like pursed on his, you know, not groin, but you know what I mean? Oh, yeah, like crotch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't like the bounce back. So there's like space. So what about you?

Oh, I've got to be honest. I've never paid too much attention to, I've got to be honest. I've never paid too much attention to dick size, if I'm honest. It's not always about penetration for me. Like penetration's fun. It's definitely like a good bit of sex, but I love foreplay more than I love actual penetration. So this guy, they can rest in peace because I've,

sorry, I've made that connection now. In my head, more women care about dick sizes, but actually, if you don't come from penetrative sex, I only come from penetrative sex, so dick size is pretty fucking key. So you're saying size doesn't matter? Honestly, if you lined up a whole kind of usual suspect's line of dicks, and all of them were men I slept with, I would never be able to match the dick to the face. No, I'm not saying match the dick.

We're not playing the match the dick to the game thing. How are you ever going to match the dick to the face. No, I'm not saying match the dick. We're not playing the match the dick to the game thing. Like that's never, how are you ever going to match a dick to the face? Well, like my current partner's dick, I should really be able to identify in a lineup. But maybe I wouldn't be able to though. That, I don't know if I'd be offended if I was your partner and you couldn't match my dick to my face. You wouldn't know your partner's dick in a dick lineup.

Not specifically. Do all dicks look that different? No, I think you're absolutely right. Actually, I wouldn't know your partner's dick in a dick lineup. Not specifically. Do all dicks look that different? No, I think you're absolutely right, actually. I wouldn't fucking know. I wouldn't know my ex-partner's dick in a lineup. I really wouldn't. But you'd be able to tell sizes. Like, in a boob lineup,

that dick's bigger than that dick. That dick's bigger than that dick. Like, a dick that doesn't... Look how much I'm trying to say dick, by the way. It's quite fun to put it in your mouth. I mean, to say it in your mouth and to have it in your mouth both good things with a dick

but like you'll have like a non-erect dick and then an erect dick so those are two different sizes no no no the line up is only erect erect dicks erect dicks

we're not looking at flaccid dicks they're all the same size so there's a really really difficult line up to construe at the same time no because they're literally different sizes so you want a line up

of erect dicks and you think that you'd be able to tell the dick to the face? No, you're obsessed with dick to the face. They're all erect. They're different sizes. So you're like, I'm just going to naturally go to the bigger, girthier dick. But then the face is important

because you don't want to prawn, do you? Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm saying. You don't want to like a fat ass face. I think you've got to remember the dick doesn't come as just like... An appendage. In a box. That's why we have dildos.'t want to like a fartless face. I think you've got to remember the dick doesn't come as just like an appendage. In a box. That's why we have dildos.

So actually, we're not really that bothered about your dick. Your dick is a part of your whole thing. And your whole package is important. But I mean,

not that I'm going to know because they don't have dick sizes on fucking hinge. But have you ever had sex? Have you ever had good sex with a guy who's had a small dick? Really good question. Not good sex,

but it's been fun. Like a chat. Define good sex. Good sex isn't always coming fun like I've chatted to find good sex good sex isn't always coming is it just fun no no no you're absolutely right you're absolutely right

so have I talked you round into this idea that maybe the dick size I just don't want this bloke to go back looking in his mirror and his like usual suspects dick line up and you're like

what's up I want good yeah well because I'm penetration so it's like but when someone sleeps with you and makes you makes you come during

penetrative sex is it the fact that they've hit like a spot at the back of your no it's like but when someone sleeps with you and makes you makes you come during penchant of sex is it the fact that they've hit like a spot at the back of your no it's because their dick size is massive and it's going into my vagina where's the spot

that they're hitting to like get you off first girth is important because it's like big enough that it kind of hurts and then if they're hitting a back wall that's where length comes in

yeah the back wall that's where the length comes into play so basically length I mean if I had to choose between girth and length it would be girth over length that is the

that is the order of priority so you want like a fat stocky dick rather than like a kind of skinny this guy I was fucking this guy I was on a date with and he's like

I was like looking at his cock and I was like fuck and he's like a lot of girls can't handle it and I was like shove it all in babes wow yeah

and how did that go I was like there's not enough deep so in answer to your question dear listener for some people it is important and for some people it isn't it's not a thing that all women we can answer on behalf of all women yeah it's totally different and I know I just spent ages talking about how important girth is length is but it's not the be all and end all and in fact dear listener I did have sex with a guy with a really big cock and he didn't know what to do with it

it was just like flapping it it's like flaps oh god no do you know what I mean it's a bit like really good looking people who just don't

bring anything to the table because they're like well I'm already good looking yeah yeah yeah and I genuinely thought he was like I'm tall I'm good looking I have a massive cock

so therefore I don't need to do anything you're going to do the work and I'm like bitch no you're going to do the work exactly so in conclusion what's more important length or girth the most important thing is to treat us good and make us come yes and it's not always your dick

that needs to do that so just just think about making her come yeah and on that note thank you so much for listening to this week's episode. It was fun. It was fun. And if you have any questions, thoughts, dilemmas, any conundrums, anything that you need help with, please email us at browngirlsdoittoo at bbc.co.uk. Or you can send us a WhatsApp or voice note to 07968 100 822. Bye. Bye. Bye.