Brown Girls Do It Too - Beauty Standards with Ramzan Miah

Episode Date: November 8, 2024

Poppy is joined by actor and model Ramzan Miah to talk about beauty standards - are they too high, are brown boys seen as attractive and are there enough brown heartthrobs on screen. Ramzan believes times are changing and gives us a new version of tall, dark and handsome. Have a message for Poppy? If you’re over 16, you can message the BGDIT team via WhatsApp for free on 07968100822. Or email us at [e-mail]. If you're in the UK, for more BBC podcasts listen on BBC Sounds: bbc.in/3UjecF5

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Some people would order their tea... Strong, milky and two sugars. Very sweet. Not very good for your diabetes. Some girls would describe their type as... Tall, dark and handsome. But everyone would describe this podcast as containing strong language and themes of an adult nature. Big boy energy.

I'm Poppy Jay and you might have heard me on the award-winning podcast, Brown Girls Do It Too, which I present with the yin to my yang, Rubina. We speak about everything, from our sex lives to female rage, and from Excel spreadsheets that our tax-dodging uncles would be proud of, to the complicated relationships we have with our families. Since the beginning of time, women have been treated as the more mysterious sex, but can anyone really claim to understand the hearts, minds and the dicks of men? Don't be scared. This is Big Boy Energy, a podcast where I'm on a mission to delve deep into the recesses of what men want, what they really think and find the answers we all want to know.

This is Big By Energy. I'm joined by model, dancer and actor Ramzan Mir. He starred in Aladdin and Barbie and is the definition of tall, dark and handsome. Hello, Ramzan. Hello, hello. Welcome. Hello, thanks for having me.

I'm loving your whole fits today. There's bougie, tie. Yeah, talk me. Hello, hello. Welcome. Hello, thanks for having me. I'm loving your whole fits today. There's bougie, Thai. Yeah, talk me through it very quickly, please. Do you know what? I'm representing my dad. Like, when I look back in the era and that time. I was thinking you are so giving dad aesthetic from the 70s. Yeah, because I feel like, you know, I want to be influenced by him.

I'm proud of him. And like, he's guided me through life. Do you know what I mean? So I'm just like his style and his vibe. I'm like, I love him. I'm proud of him. And like, he's guided me through life. Do you know what I mean? So I'm just like his style and his vibe. I'm like, I love that vibe. So I love it. This is my dad's tie. Okay.

This is your, and I love how you're wearing it like a school, like a school tie. Yeah. Was that done on purpose? Deliberately. Cause I can't do a normal tie like that. So I'm just going to have to style it out. You look great. So this is really an homage to your dad.

Yeah. Shout out to your dad. Circa what? 1970, 1980? I would say 1970s is the vibe. But I like to wear symbolic things to represent that. So it gives me that energy. Yeah.

So this is your actual dad's time. Yeah. No, you look great. You look amazing. Thank you. So Rubina, my partner in crime, the yin to my yang, she's just had a baby. So she's off to spend some time with her

bubs, her second child. Well, congratulations to her. I will pass that on. For she's gone off to spend this well-earned break, she sent me an assignment. Let's hear Rubina's thoughts. Hi, Poppy and Ramzan. So listen, we've all heard the phrase tall, dark and handsome, but what does that really mean? And does tall, dark and handsome ever refer to Asian men? I would say no, I think it's a very much a white centric phrase. I think unfortunately, we're still stuck in the blue eyed blonde hair era. Even though there are lots of hot Asian men coming through, they're all a particular type. Business bro is like a big one, you know, finance bro, or maybe rude boy. I can't really see that many differing options for

the Asian boy in mainstream culture. Over to you to discuss. So Ramzan, do you want to go first? I think there's parts of it is yes, I agree. And there's parts of it no, because I feel in society we are right now, there's a lot of changes and social media plays a big part of that. And I feel it's to do with more with personality, more than anything else. And like, if you're compatible. I think there's a degree of truth to what Rubina was saying. And I'm inclined to agree with her.

I think the phrase tall, dark and handsome is a very white centric way of basically non-Asian people really co-opting that phrase. And tall, dark and handsome basically means a white guy who can just tan better.

Yeah. And typically Asian men do really badly on dating apps maybe they just can't hold a good conversation wow is that what you're saying you know what i think it is you know because i'm on the dating app at the moment yeah and i feel like my energy and like my personality like i feel like it's good like i'm not big myself i'm confidence anything like that but I'm like I can hold a conversation and really listen and I think guys out there who go on the dating app I don't know what's going on in that in that world but like they don't really listen or they don't probably hold a good conversation and that's what puts women off because they see like a future they want husband material and if they're not providing that if they're not doing that then

they don't see a long-term relationship but do you think asian guys are seen as sexy brown guys absolutely in this world in this society i'm on the public eye in terms of like social media so i'm seeing a lot of comments from people and like dms coming through and i feel that people are generally moving the right direction if you were told me like five six years ago then absolutely i would say no we're not but now it's like more to do with the package they want a package they're not looking for your typical sexy lad they just want a person that you can get along with a person to have a good conversation and bonus if you're also good looking yeah what's the female package you're looking for for me at first you know what I would be looking at looks first

yeah I think look is a big thing for me yeah and we all normally do it straight away we judge people on how they appear and how they look and that's what I do straight away but now I would say it's joint I think for me it's a good personality like I have to vibe with them because look can get you for so so far right yeah and if they don't have any energy in that and they don't bring and value you at the same time, then you're stuck. I mean, I want to go back to what you were saying earlier. Like you're saying times have changed now

and brown guys are seen as sexy. But why do you think for so long brown guys weren't seen as sexy? Because it wasn't visible to us. We didn't see a true authentic representation on like whether that's on social media, on screen or TV or anything like that. We didn't see a true authentic representation on like whether that's on social media on screen or tv or anything like that we didn't see that self so we were going back back dated to what your typical men would be like and i think now we're breaking the barriers obviously we've got so much more to go yeah but i think we're really breaking the barriers and

like things like i don't know like a tv show like a bridgerton or things that you see people coming in and you see south asian people coming in and you're like, mum, dad, that's me. I can be really raw and authentic in that. That's what we need more. Representation certainly on screen. Massive. Massive. Yeah.

Absolutely. So when did you, because obviously you're a model, you're an actor. When did you realise that you could cash in on your looks? You're a fellow. Silety. Yeah, yeah. How did that go down with your parents saying, I'm going to be an actor or I'm going to be a model?

At the start, it was hard because, again, they're just typical doctor, typical lawyer, typical business person. That's what they wanted. So it was tough in terms of breaking that barrier. But for me, I had to do it in a secret mode, like in a secret mission way. And I had to just...

What do you mean? My journey started as I had to hide things and go to castings or like so your parents didn't know that you were no no I had to value myself and believe in myself and the only way to do that is if I get the job first yeah before telling to the open world and like this is what I want to do and if I couldn't get the job then I'm like okay cool I'll go back to normal and I don't have to please anyone yeah but for me I had this challenge of myself and like okay let me get the first initial job and then once that happened I'm like great I believe in myself because they believe in me and I can do it and that's when I started to tell them and my dad was proud my dad was actually

like oh my god because it was a tv ad he saw me first in a tv advert okay and he was like oh my god that's my son like he's doing this like commercial TV bank advert and he, you know, I can see himself in it and all these things. And he showed it to his friends and he felt proud, but my mum was uncertain. Yeah. How long did you have to hide it from them? Initially it was a long journey. I would say about a year and a half just to like solidly break in and just see if this is a system that I like. But I went to an acting school before this. I didn't tell them all of that. So I went to audition at all the drama school, all the acting school, until I got in. And then that's when I started to break it in and say,

look, I'm not doing marketing because that's what I studied before. I was in my lecture and I quit that and then went into the performing arts. But I didn't tell them that. They still think I was studying marketing. Classic Asian, living the double life. It's like bending like a beckon. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Once I quit and once I offered, I was like, It's like bending like a beckon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Once I quit and once I offered, I was like, it's done, like the deed's done. Do you find that your brown bros were supportive of you,

your friends? Yes, I come from a moving family. I have five brothers, no sisters. Okay. So already in the household, we are literally like bros

and like my... Are you close to your brothers? Yeah. So yeah, it was tough because obviously they're very, very laddy as well

and very rough. So how did they take it when you said that you wanted to go into acting? Do you know what? It's more my brothers had an effect than my dad. My brother was like, nah, why are you doing this? Like, yeah, because he's like, my friends are going to be chatting about you. Like, why are you doing all these things? But it switched up straight away because when he saw what I was doing, then it was like, OK, cool. Like, it's good. It's OK. Did they start believing in you though when you were successful? Yeah I think so. It's the Asian way isn't it? Yeah so at first it's like uh it's

only for so long you're gonna have three months four months and then that's it but then once he's seen me do like films and like really representing and then the community I'll build up and the engagement and all of that then it was like okay. so Ramzan when did you realize that you were tall dark and handsome and you could make a career from it do you know what that's a big massive question and I'll say I realized that really recently and it's after Barbie really so you'd already been modeling and acting but you don't really believe I had that moment of like do you know what I do believe in myself and I'm doing it for more of my community but I think Barbie has changed me because of the perspective of how they seen people in that film and the representation they wanted to bring it wasn't your typical like Ryan Gosling he's your Ken

he's like you know muscly and things like that and for me when I went through the audition process straight away I was telling my agent I was like I don't want to do this because I'm not muscly I'm not fit I'm not um I don't know I just didn't believe in that to be to be a Ken and then once I've went through that journey that's when it started to change me because they want people that you see yourself on the streets or anything like that to be in the film and that's when I really valued myself do you feel like we need to own that sort of dark would you say you're you're dark-skinned yeah do you know what? A lot of it, especially comments that I get on my social media,

especially, they're all negative. They're all like, yeah, yeah, absolutely. But I leave that. I could easily remove it. But alhamdulillah, I've got that platform for that reason. And you're reclaiming that dark skin. And I want to change people's mindset as well. Because I leave that for them to have an open discussion.

So what are people saying on your social media? Fucking hell, They'll be like Literally like Oh my god Is it racist comment? Racist comment They'll be like Oh this guy

Why is he not using Fair and lovely That fair and lovely was a Are these from other brown guys? Other brown guys And that's why I leave it as that So these are other brown people Saying to you

Especially Sometimes it's from our community as well From Bengalis I have a Bangladeshi community as well That say that So that's why No Zubin Lastah Yeah That's why what is wrong with our people man you think that you would

support them but it's not it's not actually like so these are other brown people on your Instagram saying why aren't you using Fair and Lovely

which is a skin bleaching cream yeah yeah yeah and that's why they've gone back minded like we're still having developed there and that's why I keep having that conversation

and for me it doesn't hurt me before when I started and I'm like oh fuck sake like what is this like oh my god fucking hell someone's calling me like black monkey and i'm like fuck that it really affected me so you'd get comments like that from i still get it today like literally if you go in my comments now and you see it like it'll still be like same from other brown guys yes yes oh my god the colorism in our community it still. So we're not still there yet. And I feel we've got so much long way to go. But Alhamdulillah, I am grateful.

Sharing, the more we come across them, the more confidence we have and the more we publicize that, the easier it's going to get, not harder, the easier it's going to get. I honestly applaud you. I guess what you're saying is it used to affect you and it doesn't anymore.

And do you call any of this sort of language out? No, the way I do it is respond to it, but make another content out of it. So, for example, Black Monkey, and then I'll repost that video and just like embrace my culture more and then do it more

because I'm like, emphasize it. Here you go. High five. Oh, my God. I'm so sorry you get shit like that. Do you know what? It's like you have to have thick skin, but also I always have a reason

why I'm doing it. And like, I feel it's to do more in my community. I want to like challenge my community more. I want to break the barriers and it's always going to be part of that journey. Do you know what I mean? And it's how you use that negative comment into a positive and change.

And yeah, get that out there. Have you found that some of those people that have been commenting on your skin colour, have you changed their perception in some way? I'm not saying make them un-racist or you can't change people overnight. But by the sheer fact you've been in Barbie, which broke all box office records. I mean, that movie was huge.

Has that changed some people's perception, like even within our community? Absolutely. I'd say, yes, it has definitely. When I went to Bangladesh and I did the premiere over there, that's where it mapped out Bangladesh more perception like even even within our community absolutely I'd say yes it has definitely when I went to Bangladesh and I did the premiere over there that's where it mapped out Bangladesh more because they felt more proud and they felt honored and again they felt true offended because you couldn't see I'm quite dark you couldn't see that in on the screen yeah it definitely changed people and then when I get the comment comment from my social media it's not all like negative but the

people from my community will also respond to the negative comment like I'm proud I'm dark I'm this I can do that and I get loads of positive comments saying that I want to get into the industry how does it happen and I respond to every single one I'm like that to me makes a huge difference and that makes me proud and happy and in his representation like a really big drive for you is that one of the things that really motivates you to really motivates me because we are so minority. As a whole, South Asian. Especially Bengalis as well, man.

Yeah. We're right at the bottom of that South Asian. Exactly, my food chain. I'm literally at the bottom. We're plankton. Yeah, we're trying to work our way up. Yeah, yeah, definitely. So having this, seeing ourself on the screen and things like that,

it just changes people's minds a lot. It changed my mind as well, straight away. When I saw people that I like, okay, it's not just Indian on a Bollywood film scale. Do you know what I mean? Or Riz Ahmed. Yeah, or Riz Ahmed. Exactly like that.

He was my iconic person as well, to be into the acting world. But I'm like, I've seen that. I've seen Dev Patel. I've seen all of this. I've seen all of the action movies that they've done. And now I'm ready for mine. That's amazing.

And also, how was it like you breaking those barriers? Because you're the first Asian model and actor that I've met. I know things are changing now. Really? Yeah, Brown, absolutely, yeah. Because our community, especially the Bangladeshi community, I think we're still so stuck in our ways a bit. So it's really nice to see someone breaking that barrier

in the kind of creative community, in the creative arts. I know your family have been quite supportive but do you find barriers not just within the bangladeshi community but also in the south asian community as a whole yeah i think how many white people would sit here and be like i had to lead a double life and lie to my pick like they wouldn't do that yeah i mean they'll support you but they just they didn't have to go through that journey yeah i mean like it's a different enough to lead a double life that we do sometimes yeah exactly that I'm proud to be that because it's kind of supported me in my journey as well and if I didn't have that I wouldn't be where I am um in certain um job roles or certain like conversation that we're having like this for

example so to me yeah I'm proud of that and the fact that like I'm able to have a community to go back to um it's super important yeah how do you think now brown guys are seen in the media are they seen as sexy it used to be typical it does make me feel sad sometimes because we still get that negative comments and like that racism and like you know terrorists and all of these things but again being public and vocal about it would only help us and support us because if we like be in my parents generation and just like stay at home and like not do anything about it nothing's going to change do you know what I mean we are the generation to change that so I think it's super important to like change people's mindset and just go out there I love your positive energy I'm feeding your positive energy. I'm feeding off of it.

Let's really unpack that because it's not that we're trying to focus on the negative. I think there are some really racist stereotypes about Asian people that just haven't gone away. You know, the fact that we're seen as weak, we're not attractive, we smell of curry. Maybe men are not hung as well, that we're obedient, that we're not cool enough. I think all of that plays a part. Sadly, we're not really in popular culture. So we don't have that sort of cool cultural cachet, although that is changing. Thanks to people like you, Ramzan. For instance, Love Island, you know, brown boys typically do so badly on that show. Do you think that that's a reflection on wider society, that brown boys are just not

seen as as attractive absolutely I'm going to say yes to that because I auditioned for Love Island did you yeah I didn't I didn't realize it was the Love Island thing I just went to the audition thinking it would be like a casting my agent model agency was like oh it's a casting thing so I went to it oh you didn't realize it was love I know and then I got there and I was like whoa there's a lot of like good-looking lads but I was like, whoa, there's a lot of like good looking lads. But I was like the only Asian again there. So you were the only Asian at this casting? Yeah, at this casting.

So I went through the whole process, but I didn't go through because this isn't a show that I would go on at all. You wouldn't go on Love Island? No, because again, I feel like, yeah, we get backlash a lot about it. It just didn't feel right. In terms of like brown boy reputation,

sexy brown boy representation, tall, dark and handsome brown boy representation. Do you think that we have seen it before in movies? And I'm not talking about Bollywood, but like movies, TV, kind of pop culture other than Zayn Malik. Like, I mean, who else is out there? I mean, Riz Ahmed is one that who would do it in the Hollywood. Two guys. Yeah, two guys.

Dev Patel actually, Monkey that he did. Yeah, I haven't seen that. It's supposed to be amazing. That was a film that, you know, hopefully would change

people's mindset of like Asian. But apparently he did that film because he just wasn't getting roles in Hollywood. Exactly. So he made that role

and he changed that. Yeah. We need more of that because if you list the roles and people do, Rizama, Dev Patel, Zayn Malik, there's only few of us and there needs to be more. There's not enough of us to go out there. And I feel like the way we do it is that we have to make the change. And we have to create those roles.

Yeah, we have to create these roles. Have you seen those really like slightly fucked up videos where it's on social media, where some some guy goes out and is in front of westfield with a little furry thing and they go and ask people it's like a vox pop you know they'll ask people like what race would you not date oh and pakistani indian bangladesh sri lankan they come up come up all the time like it's just a beauty standard though that to me it's like really shocking because i feel like the beauty standard hasn't then still changed well I want to talk to you about beauty standard but before I go on to that why do you think people can so comfortably say that because

that's fucking racist it is that is racist right yeah it is definitely racist they prefer light skinned people and I think that's like fucked up again in in today's society because I feel like it's we should change people's mindsetets of that and like everyone's beautiful in their own skin do you know what I mean and we should embrace that Ramzan yes

as a tall dark and handsome man dark skinned beautiful handsome man standing sitting in front in front of me a lot of confidence here

I think Asian men are not seen as attractive when white women and black women look at Asian men. They know deep down that they're dating not just him, but the family. Like Asian guys, like Asian girls,

we come with baggage, we come with mothers, we come with aunties, the whole collective culture. And added to that, I think our culture, I think Asian people generally, we are quite religious. So whether you're Hindu or Sikh or Muslim, like religion plays a massive part in our day to day life. We're not that open to marrying people from other faiths. So I think we come with all that baggage. We're not really simple. We're not easy. Fundamentally, why do you think brown men are not seen as attractive i feel like they are attractive it's just they're not shown enough there's no representation yeah enough there's a lack of representation yeah there's not enough of that and then it doesn't

change people's perception of that so do you remember when rishi sunak became pm and everyone was like dishy rishi yeah i wanted to gag but i was like he's doing something for the men out there he's doing something for the brown men and he's like come on that god at the same time everyone was like, Dishy Rishy. And I wanted to gag, but I was like, he's doing something for the men out there. He's doing something for the brown men. He's here and he's like, come on, that God. At the same time, I was like,

fair play. If I've got quote unquote Dishy Rishy to go on. Yeah. But you know, on the flip side of that, one of my, well, my favorite actress is Kajal.

Okay. Of all time. Yeah. Bollywood actress. But the woman that I still think is the most beautiful woman to this day is, is Aishwarya Rai. Julia Roberts said that she was the most beautiful woman in the world. The world sees her as this beautiful woman.

She's a global icon for so many. But there isn't this sort of adoration or like an equal figure for the South Asian man. I mean, you could say Shah Rukh Khan to a degree. But Shah Rukh Khan is a big, what is that expression? What about the Rithu question? Rithu Roshan is like, he's... Yeah, but those guys, they're big fishes in a small pond. Yeah.

Right? So in their little fiefdom, basically in Bollywood, they rule. Yeah. But globally, you're not really going to bat an eyelid. Yeah. So why do you think that is? I think it's starting to happen, to be fair Because I watched this Netflix Program actually recently

And there was an Asian guy in it Sexy Asian guy He was topless And like Baywatch When you come out of the swimming pool And he was doing all of these things And like all of this Getting his shirt out

Is this an Asian guy? Yeah Ishaan Qatar In The Perfect Couple Oh I've seen the 20 minutes of it Yes But I remember he's really hot I didn't know he was Indian

You would think that though Spanish or Mexican Is it because he's light-skinned though is that why and you couldn't yeah in all honesty like you said brown representation is so lacking yeah very whenever I see anyone brown in America I'm like they're obviously Spanish yeah do you know what I mean or they're Mexican or they're South American yeah I just never think they're Indian which is really bad because we don't because we don't see it as often. Yeah, we don't see that. Again, he's a great actor, got that role. And, you know, he's moved from the Bollywood side of things to Hollywood.

And I think it's things like that that needs to, we need more of that because there's not enough of that. So I think once that's changed, and I think it'll be nice and refreshing to see more dark skinned people. Absolutely. Do you know what I mean? And then it will change people's perspective. It will change not just brown people's perspective, the whole wide world. Just have an open-minded conversation about all of these things.

Yeah. And that hasn't happened yet. And we're in freaking 2024. How many hot brown guys are there right now that are super famous? Riz Ahmed, Dev Patel. Yeah. Shankar.

Yeah. Nikesh Patel. Nikesh Patel. There you go. He's also dark, right? And people find that attractive now Based on what he's been in And what film he's done

And things like that That we need to see more So we have a lot of work to do Freaking hell we do But you're paving the road to representation I think I'm making a small adjustment to that Being a silly T in Bangladeshi You're doing your You're putting the time in I'm crafting, I'm doing it And things like that And I think I'm making a small adjustment to that being a silly T in Bangladeshi but

You're doing your you're putting the time in I'm crafting, I'm doing it and things like that and I think it's that like the beauty standards of that needs to change I did a campaign

a makeup campaign and I only did that because it was with Charlotte Tilbury Oh wow that's amazing Yeah it was a good brand to do it but

I was a bit like oh I'm going to get called names again things like that but I only did it because of the foundation. Was the foundation quite dark? Yes.

And I did that for that reason. Oh, that's so good. Because for me, I was thinking, I want people to see how attractive you can be being dark. You have a perfectly chiseled face, Ramzan. Thank you. It's so symmetrical. It's actually freaking me out. No, it's not freaking me out.

I'm so proud of that face. It's my dad and my mom's genetics, you know. Alhamdulillah I appreciate that but thank you no but that's such a good reason to be part of a campaign because

you know it's so symbolic of that representation that we so desperately need you know and hopefully women can just be like do you know what

I love this guy and like you know I'm still open by the way so people can see you heard it here big boy energy ramzan's looking always do you think social media and like movies tv shows are putting brown boys on the map yes i think so and again things like barbie are now changing thing because

they wanted people who are just like embracing themselves and their own individuality and uniqueness we're just much more visible aren't we yeah who do who put like zayn malik who is People who are just like embracing themselves and their own individuality and uniqueness. We're just much more visible, aren't we? Who put like Zayn Malik, who is stunned. Oh my days. He is so beautiful. He kind of put brown boys on the map. He has actually.

Would you say he was the first brown boy? On screen, because you didn't see a band. Yeah, in pop culture, in music right and he had a good solo career afterwards yeah Gigi fucking Hadid married him so there you go freaking iconic

sorry Gigi Hadid Gigi Hadid dated him dated not married yeah yeah sorry my bad but still come on like they've got a kid they're basically married

but they're actually not married and he's not with her anymore so anyway but they've got some kind of still always going to have that relationship

so yeah so one final question, Ramzan. Let's go for it. If tall, dark and handsome is a white phrase, is there a brown equivalent? Do you want to make up a brown sort of slogan right here on Big Boy Energy? Oh, my God. That we can then pass around like an STD. Oh, God.

It's reclaiming it. Dark skin's got to be there somewhere. Yeah. Dark, sexy, mature. Okay. Dark, sexy, mature. Okay. Dark, sexy, mature. We're going to go with dark skin. Going once, going twice.

Dark, sexy, mature. Okay. Done. Done. Right. So we're reclaiming it. Dark, sexy, mature. Yeah.

Where's the mature coming from? Just older. Yeah. Like more wiser. I think men are going to hate me right now, but I just think men need to be more mature. Mature. We're going with dark, sexy, mature. Ramzan, it was an absolute pleasure

to have you on the podcast. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much. I love the work that you're doing. Thank you. Keep fighting the good fight, man. Yeah, that's great. And I love that you're doing it

for dark-skinned men as well. And you're a fellow Silety. Yes. Bengali. Shout out. Balasone. Balasone. Yeah.

Thank you for listening if you have any thoughts opinions or you want to share a story or a conundrum with me then you can message 079

68 100 822 pretty boy bye bye bye big boy energy