Brown Girls Do It Too - How Do You Like Your Eggs? with Seetal Savla

Episode Date: July 22, 2022

Poppy and Rubina discuss fertility, egg donation and the contraception gender gap.

BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. The podcast you're about to listen to contains strong language and some very adult content, but not the kind of adult who bothers to iron things and does yoga three times a week. Think of it more like the aunt who doesn't get invited to family weddings anymore after the incident. Brown girls do it too. Hello! If you didn't know already, and us naked in the thumbnail didn't give it away, this is a sex podcast. And if you can't tell from our voices, we're actually British Asian babes. We really are. I'm Robina. I'm Poppy. And this is Brown Girls Do It Too. Here we are outside the BBC on some concrete steps, doing what all Indians do, squatting.

Yeah, literally squatting. On some steps outside. Because this episode is about fertility. And I wanted to show you my seed. Do you want to see my seed? I want to see all your seeds, baby. So today I have... This sounds like a Radio 4 programme. I know it does. This is mustard oriental. Great looking, full flavoured, spicy leaves.

Okay. That's how people describe you, really, on your... Full flavoured... Yeah, yeah. Spicy leaves as well. I think it's quite you. Apparently it's an aphrodisiac. Post-baby, you need this.

I've got to be honest, when I just think sea mustard seeds, I just think of dahl. Yeah, so do I. So I'm just taking some soil. Oh my God, I'm making a bit of a mess here. Taking some soil and putting it into this. I'm using this tablespoon to fill up this pot with soil. So how can you just like put it, do you not like embed it within the soil? Oh right, yes, I haven't looked at the instructions.

So I sprinkle, sprinkle, sprinkle, sprinkle, and then I'll pour some of this water in. Chuck a few more, why don't you? A few more, yeah, I mean, how many mustard seeds do you need? I'm aphrodisiac away. Okay, here we go. Mate, spread it out

nice should I just put it in should I pop it in on my finger yeah let's just pop it in so make sure it's like because you know birds and squirrels

and it might blow away with the wind so yeah I know I'll put another I'll put another spoonful of it's like we're cooking do you know that

your menstrual blood is quite good for indoor plants are you serious yeah I mean I haven't had a period in a really long time do you know that your menstrual blood is quite good for indoor plants? Are you serious? Yeah, I mean, I haven't had a period in a really long time. Do you know that when you're breastfeeding, your period doesn't come back whilst the process of your breastfeeding? Really? So you haven't had, oh my God.

I haven't had a period for like almost a year. Wow, what's that been like? I kind of miss it. Really? Yeah. Why? I like a monthly bead, it makes me feel alive. Oh God.

Yeah. I could do without a period forever. Right, mustard seeds are done. Oh, I've got monthly bead it makes me feel alive oh god yeah I could do without a period forever right mustard seeds are done oh I've got to water it yep water your seeds

here we go that's probably I think you've drowned I think you've drowned the mustard seeds Poppy is now planting the rocket seed like she's making

a fucking salsa she's making a fucking cocktail yeah bit of vodka bit of vodka. A bit of Kahlua. So today,

because our episode is about fertility and eggs and since I have grown a human inside of me and you don't, you don't actually want to be a parent of anything, I thought maybe you could

grow these seeds and you could become the proud parent of a plant. So be a plant mum. Do you like plants? I love plants. I just don't take care of them.

But I love having them in my flat and in my room. And I love being surrounded. I want my room to look like a jungle. The downside is I don't water them and I kill them all. So this is a good lesson for me. This is good. Do I have to carry this around on fucking Oxford Street though? Yeah.

Fuck's sake. Yeah, all right then. And you grow these mustard seeds. And then when you have guys come over you show them what you're doing each time you say I've got this I can scare them by saying

I'm a mother of a mustard seed of a mustard seed and it's an aphrodisiac so hubba hubba hubba if we get to the point where these actually grow you have to then cook

something with the mustard with the mustard leaves do I have to cook yeah I'll make a knife you have to cook me a meal with the mustard leaves okay fine and then sh cook? Yeah, I'll make a knife. You have to cook me a meal with the mustard leaves. Okay, fine. And then shag somebody else because I'm taken.

Okay, fine. Done. And Poppy, that was wonderful. That was great work. Thank you so much for your kind contributions to making the seeds work. Yeah, it's way too windy here. We're going to have to go back to the studio.

Over to you, Poppy and Rubina. Studio side. From Poppy and Rubina, roadside. In today's episode, we are going to be talking about sex. Surprise! Did you know that? Well, really, we're going to be talking about the consequences of sex, more about what happens when you have sex without a condom at a certain time of the month.

You get pregnant and maybe have a kid because I have actually had one recently. You, on the other hand, that's not something you want to do. You popped a little bubs. He's so handsome. And I decided probably a little bit before you gave birth, in November, I think, I realised I definitely didn't want to be a mum. And not only did I definitely not want to be a mum, I wanted to donate my eggs.

And my God, I mean, look at me. My teeth, my hair. Even the nurse was like, very eugenics-fied, by the way. She was like, honest to God. She was like, oh, they're going to love you. I don't know why I made her sound Indian. She's not. She's Iranian. But she wears Chanel. She looked amazing. She's head of nursing. She's oh, they're going to love you. I don't know why I made her sound Indian. She's not. She's Iranian. But she wears Chanel.

She looked amazing. She's head of nursing. She's like, they're going to love you. You're so beautiful. You're very slim. You're very athletic. You have good education. It got very, very eugenic. She was like G-ing you up in the donation room.

Like, those eggs? Good eggs. Good eggs. Let's hope we get many. And then she's like shouting in the corridor, the women who are like waiting for don't eggs. And she's like, we've got a good one in here. I mean, obviously I was doing it for the greater good,

but definitely I'd be lying if part of me was like, shit, could I have sold some of my eggs? If I'm from like such good stock, could I like a thousand an egg? You know what I mean? Going once, going twice. Two thousand, little auction. Do you think there is like a market for eggs?

Oh, there's definitely a black market. You go into the black web and you're like Indian eggs. Two P. Poppy and eggs. Two P. Poppy and okay. Two rupees. No, but you don't think about it. So, and it's a whole ordeal. Like, I haven't really talked to anyone about this, really.

I spoke to my partner at the time. He was very, very supportive. So I was like, look, I don't want to be a mum. So I did an MOT test. They literally call it an MOT test down there a fertility MOT and it came back with really good results they're like you've got above average xyz and then I was like I should really donate because otherwise they're literally going to waste um and usually I think women in a typical IVF treatment or like when you're donating eggs you

produce maybe seven mature eggs 33 I mean I'm like the Asian in me is like I should get a certificate for this, why isn't someone giving me something to say you're amazing a diploma, 33 but yes I realised I definitely don't want to be a mum and I wanted to donate eggs and when I went to the London Fertility Clinic they

were like look we don't have egg donors from Asian women and black women and when you have and, we don't have egg donors from Asian women and black women. And when you have, and the statistics don't lie, if South Asian women are going for IVF rounds, they are going to want, and most people do, you're going to want an egg from your own ethnicity. And so it's a vicious cycle. But I was Asian, sorry, but I am Asian,

and I did freeze some of my eggs as a backup, just in case I changed my mind. Let's be honest. Let's tell everyone why. Because you got a good deal. I got a good deal. I got a good deal. Freezing your eggs is quite a costly process. And actually, women out there who want to freeze their eggs probably have looked into how much it might cost to do it.

But if you donate your eggs. You get to freeze them for free. That's crazy. I did not know that. Yeah, honestly, it's too far. I think it's amazing. So if you want to freeze your eggs, I think it costs about £7,000.

But if you donate your eggs, the freezing is all for free. And so what's the deal? You get to freeze half for you, half for the other? Yeah, so you freeze half or however many you want for yourself and then they have to take a good,

they have to take like 14 or 15 eggs because they have to give it to a certain number of families. You also have to write to your future children. You write a letter. So I had to write a letter to all my little mini poppies and popinders. Popinders. I was like, hello.

Popinder. Contact me in the future. Contact me when I'm old. Thank you. It's the best deal because I actually want them to come to me. So when you do the form, you have to go through therapy and counseling you need to have one therapy session and i i you can't be anonymous now you have to be at 16 they're allowed to know this much about you and when you're at 18 they know everything but it's up to them if they want to come and

knock on your door but i can't wait to have mini poppies and put binders knocking on my door is there a bit of you that maybe like in the future will be like watching telly and you'll see someone that looks like you and you'll be like I wonder if they're mine yeah I know I hope I don't sleep with my own child oh my god wow that'd be insane imagine I know well I do hope you're still kind of like playboying the way that you are yeah like well into your 60s well into my 60s so then if that's happening you could technically sleep with your egg your future egg I would love that

I'd be so messed up I'd be so messed up I found them attractive because they look like me such a narcissist but this is why they cap you know that documentary

My 35 Children and Me or some shit they cap how many eggs you can donate and how many families get it and how much spam you can donate yeah because otherwise you could it and how much spam you can yeah yeah yeah because otherwise you could literally be having a conversation with you on a train

and i was telling you that i really wanted to have kids and i was like ready and i was excited and something and you said to me i'll never forget it because you said to me like oh what about your career and what about like don't you want to travel like isn't there stuff that you want to do before you have kids and i was like i genuinely believe I'm going to still be able to do all the things that I want to do, whether I'm having a kid or not. And it was weird because our mindsets were completely different. Because you were saying to me, like, but what about your, you know, isn't there stuff that you want to achieve before you have a baby?

And I was like, I definitely think I can still do everything I've done with baby, without baby. And that really stuck with me because I was like, I think people have this idea that they have to, like, pause something yeah they have to give up something to like have it have a kid and well yeah I have changed my life but I don't think it's going to stop me from doing all the things I want to do yeah I I think for me babies have always been synonymous with um mums putting their plans and their careers and their life on hold but But I guess you're right. And you are a testament to that. Like every fucking Zoom I've seen with you and little bubs on one nipple and then on the other nipple for dessert.

Do you know what I mean? You're amazing. You're like the modern mum. You know, we were in a meeting the other day. You brought the little bubs with you. Like I know times are changing, but certainly for me, it's always been a, it's definitely possible to obviously travel and have a baby and do all those things but it's harder it's a bit harder

yeah do you think like when so when you were younger like what was your idea of fertility did you think you were fertile then i mean you're one of six so you must have been like this genetically is totally fine i'm telling you as a brown woman you are more likely you are programmed to think that you're more likely to give birth than get five A stars. And you're Asian, so you probably will get five A stars. But like, you'll do well.

But like, it's just, you never ever question your ability to not have children. You're like, yeah, I don't have kids. My mum said to me, look, I'm so fertile. I'm one of 10 and I had you guys. I'm so fertile, you'll be fine.

Yeah. Like it was like, it was just like that easy. Yeah, it was that easy. And that's how it works. That's how people think it works. Like it's a genetic thing. Yeah. And then when it doesn't work

and no one talks about it, it makes the situation a hundred times worse. But I was just like, well, I'm just going to have a kid. It's something you do. It's so ingrained in us and not in our culture, but I think just across the board.

Like you're a woman, you're a mum. And you said earlier, like you, people are identifying you as mum instead of Rubina. Like you are a whole entity. You're a woman you're a mum and you said earlier like you people are identifying you as mum instead of rabina like you are a whole entity you're a whole personality you're a force of nature in fact you've got you're a character but you're a mum yeah you're a mum first and it's exactly it's i don't know i you you as a person who's just become a mum prior to becoming one i

think i looked at women differently yeah when they became mum yeah especially in an office situation if someone was a mum i'd be like oh they're a mum yeah not like they're this amazing yeah it's so true or they're also a mum yeah and you kind of always slip that in when you're describing someone you're like so and so uh lucy from hr she's a mum yeah she said the zoom starts it now amazing scientist who discovered the cure for covid she's a mum you know it's like it's like a kind of like kind of offhand addition and this is the really interesting thing because i think your sexiness it's like it's supposed to drop when you become a mum it's like hang on a second i mean my body has dramatically changed yeah and actually my opinions on sex have changed actually and so maybe maybe it has changed are you having more or less sex oh my god way less

so like basically when i was pregnant um there's, we only had sex one way. And I don't really like going in, like always having it from the back. Cause you know, I much, much prefer to be on top. I was literally going to say. But getting on top when you're pregnant is long. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like, I could squash you.

Did you ever cum? Oh yeah. When you're pregnant, you are so horny. Oh, okay. You're like the horniest you've ever been. And all your like hormones are flying everywhere. And all you want to do is masturbate all the time. Yeah, and you're just like, you know, you've got this massive thing in front of you.

And you're like, I just need to, I can't see myself down there. I can't touch myself in the same way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you masturbate on your stomach, can't do that anymore. Yeah. Can't masturbate on your back. It's like, basically, you just can't mix it up. You have to have everything quite regimented.

Regimented. Yeah. And obviously, when you have a partner and you're pregnant, you're what you find me attractive yeah and they can't be like like it's complicated for them i remember my partner being like well of course i find you attractive and i love you but it's weird if i tell you that your pregnant body is attractive to me that our child is so complicated it's so complicated there is like a pregnant women porn tab right people do find that sexy and i wonder what that is because it's like if the whole reason we're all shagging is to like just get pregnant if it's like it's about that and the woman's already pregnant so why are you

turned on by that you've already achieved the thing that you're fantasizing about but that's also like another sexual thing it's called um it's called cream pie what's that cream pie is like when a man comes in a woman and it like oozes out oh yeah i'm all into cream pie i love a bit which i thought was creampay because i saw it written down and i was like what is that sexy cramps i didn't get it sexy creampay sounds like a dessert anyway that is a that is like a fertility sexual thing, right? Because it's like, you just came at me

and we didn't use any protection. Yeah. Who cares? Put it on the edge. Yes. Oh, God. Because growing up, I was like, no one has had sex with me without a condom once

because I was always really like, I need to have protection. Either I was, you know, protected having the pill or i had the copper coil inserted or they had condoms i would never ever have sex with somebody even for a one-night stand without protection right because i was so scared of getting yeah yeah yeah and then at like 23 i did get pregnant okay and i was like oh the one time the one time i was like put it in just five seconds and then take it out put a condom on we'll have sex oh is that what happened oh my what a waste it was the dumbest thing ever it was like such a mistake and i was like oh great i'm pregnant i'm 23 i'm at university what am i

gonna do do you have to get the morning after bill uh no i was so far gone in my pregnancy i was 10 weeks pregnant oh my god that i had to get a proper abortion where you had to like go in i had to go on general anesthetic and it was it was, like, really hard to call. But now having had a baby. Yeah. I was like, I don't know. I think that looking back at that 23-year-old who did that decision, which, you know, I'm very pro-choice. And it was the right decision for me at the time.

And, like, bloody hell, I have a 12-year-old now. Yeah. But, like, now having had this baby, it's like, maybe look back at that person and be like, I was so devastated when it happened. It was really upsetting. Yeah. It was the right decision. I look back at that person. I'm like, you know devastated when it happened. It was really, I was really upset. It was the right decision. I look back at that person. I'm like, you know, it was good that you did that because this is so different what I'm doing now.

And I'm in a different place. And I'm able to like offer the child something completely different. But prior, in between, I was like, I'm never going to get pregnant again. Women who think that it's just not going to happen for them. Oh, because you had an abortion. That's a huge myth.

But so many women think that. So many women think that. I ruined myself, you know. Having a baby is amazing. Like giving birth is amazing. It's like, I just made a human being. I've done loads of cool stuff with my life. You know, this podcast being one of them, but nothing is as cool as having this baby. I was like, whoa, human beings just come out of me. I think the one thing I know I'm going to miss about motherhood is I will never experience that kind of love. And I know a love that a mum has for their child is a love that is unparalleled. Like, I know. And I'm not even a mum. I see it in you.

I see it in my mum. It just emanates from mum's skins. And what they do, what they'd be willing to do put their life on the line for their child is something I'm never I'm never like I love my siblings I love you I love my parents but the love I'll have for a child that I'll never have is something I'll never experience and that probably makes me feel a bit sad. Yeah. Yeah, one thing I will miss from having a child is money. Travelling the world. There's plenty of things that I'm like,

that's going to have to take a bit of a setback. Yeah. Also because I'm not paying like all of that money for a flight for a two-year-old. I just can't believe it. Now I can fly with him for free. Really? Yeah, but when he turns two.

Get your holidays in now. Yeah, get them all in now. But then also a 10-hour flight with a baby. I don't know, do you know what I mean? It's like, oh. Are you, so my worst nightmare is being, Get your holidays in now. Yeah, get them all in now. But then also, a 10-hour flight with a baby. I don't know, do you know what I mean? It's like, oh. Are you, so my worst nightmare is being,

sitting anywhere with a baby near me. Worst nightmare in the world. Yeah, I don't give a shit about that. If I'm on a train and my baby's crying,

deal with it. Yeah, fine. But if I'm anywhere and my baby's crying, I'm like, deal with it. I brought human life into this world. You can just sit there

and you can put your earplugs in you can like listen to your little podcast it's fine listen to brown girls do it too with my baby crying the night next to you one thing that was weird though was having like a mixed race baby yeah yeah and like i have like big brown breasts right and i have a big brown nipple and then i have small white head baby i did i we did we did brown girls do it to you on stage and we did discuss brown facing your baby if it didn't look brown enough if you were mistaken for the nanny I have to I have to so next up we've got a brilliant guest on the line who can tell us about her own fertility journey she's a a writer, currently based in Berlin. Amazing. Sital Savla. Welcome to Brown Girls Do It Too, another brown girl.

Hello. Woohoo. Hi. Welcome. Hello. Hi. What age were you when you started to think about your own fertility, about wanting to be a mum? Our fertility journey started on Christmas Day 2015 when my husband and I discovered that I had fallen pregnant naturally. And we were just overjoyed by that. But unfortunately, the joy didn't last for very long because we miscarried about four or five weeks later.

And as devastating as that was, it was a bit of a wake-up call because it made me realise that it was our sole pregnancy in eight years. So clearly there was some issue here that we needed to investigate. So off we went to the GP and did a year of fertility tests and waiting for results. And then we started our first round of IVF on the NHS. And that was unsuccessful. And because we didn't or I didn't produce enough embryos to qualify for a second round, we didn't get any funding.

And if we wanted to pursue treatment we would have had to go private and so that's what we did in the end so two brutal rounds of IVF later at a clinic that's nicknamed IVF boot camp I still wasn't any close to having a baby and that's when our then consultant mentioned donor eggs for the first time and that wasn't something that my husband was quite ready to embrace at that point and at that clinic we would have also had to use a known donor which meant someone like my sister a cousin a friend or finding someone through an agency and that wasn't really feasible for us at the time so we swapped clinics to give ourselves the option of anonymous donation and also to do a final round

with my own eggs so that was our fourth one that we did which was interrupted by covid which was a massive pain in the arse and thankfully we weren't delayed for too long it was just a month in the end that was unsuccessful and then we started to pursue donor conception we got pregnant yay which was absolutely amazing, we couldn't believe it and we were just taking it one day at a time. I had a couple of bleeds which really scared me but things were going well and then unfortunately we heard those five horrible words and that was the end of the dream. I'd had a miscarriage at about eight, nine weeks and proceeded to have a really terrible two months just sort of

managing that medically. And then my husband and I put all of that aside. We decided, you know, five rounds, donor conception, miscarriage, all of that. It was just, we needed to take a break. And that's what we did for a few months. And while we were doing that, we fell pregnant naturally. And I'm now at almost 32 weeks, which has been a massive journey in itself. Yeah, my God. I know, touching wood, crossing fingers and just hoping for the best. Yeah, it will be, I'm sure. Do you think the urge for motherhood comes from something innate? So obviously, like as women, people always be like oh my god my ovaries

are pumping every time I see a baby and there's this thing which is like oh my god you're making me feel like I want to be a mother do you think that's real like that's a biological that biological clock that biological impulse do you think that that's something you felt I think it can be for some women like you hear about that a lot actually it wasn't necessarily the case for me I just assumed it was something that was always in my future, like marriage and kids. I didn't ever think, well, what would my life look like if I didn't sort of follow that path? And luckily, it sort of happened quite naturally. I met my husband at university. We were friends for a really long time. And then after that, it sort of developed really into something more. So it was quite a natural process to go through, really.

It's really funny you were saying, it's true,'t it you spend most of your 20s not trying to get pregnant and then you spend your 30s definitely trying to get pregnant and it's and it's um having a baby in our culture is the equivalent of winning a noble prize it's like the moment you get married you go up in the respectability scale then you have a kid and then you're like oh then the aunties and the men they start taking you seriously people listen to what you've got to say but if you've got no kid you've got no respect I should rent one just to

get respect. Parenthood is put on a pedestal in the South Asian community. Massively my mum is like Mrs Bennett on speed from Pride and Prejudice she's like get married get married get married get married and then obviously none of us are married so clearly she thinks she's done something wrong. And none of us have kids. And it's like, it is a real, a friend was actually telling me the other day,

she's now got a kid and everyone listens to what she's got to say. No. Yeah. It's so funny because the truth is, like, as somebody who's just had a kid, I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. And I'm incredibly flawed at being his mum. Like, massively, I make mistakes all the time. I don't know what I'm doing. doing and I'm incredibly flawed at being his mum like massively I make mistakes all the time I don't know what I'm doing I'm sure I'm you know and there's nothing

about I've not changed as a person in any way like at all like I think I'm the same person and I hate the idea that people now describe me as a mum so I'm like you don't start your sentences with as a mum yeah exactly I'm like I'm still Robino like i still want to masturbate and have sex yeah all those things that i did before although actually to be fair my libido really really gone down yeah i can't watch porn really wow why i actually just find it really like disturbing to watch it now this is awful for me because i was like i was somebody who was quite interested in watching yeah yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think it's because of the baby monitor.

Right. I think it's because of the baby, I blame the baby monitor. Okay, right. Because you have this screen with your baby on it. Yeah.

And if you have some alone time, you're like, well, maybe I'll go and, you know, see what I can do. And you can't take that into the room with, because you're like, it's too much.

It's like too much. It's fucked up, isn't it? It's like, my child is here on that screen and I'm watching two cops go in the vagina on that screen and there's something that's not quite right. It's really funny talking about... So I realised quite recently

that I definitely don't want to be a mum. So before I was teetering on maybe not, maybe yes, but about three or four months ago I was like, no, motherhood is not for me. But now what I'm doing is I have these fantasies but I about three four months ago I was like nope motherhood is not for me but now what I'm doing is I have these fantasies and I'm having sex

that the guy impregnates me like makes me pregnant wow and it's a real talking point it's a real role play oh right like he'll whisper in my ear

you're like come in me come in me like and I'm I want it make me pregnant make me pregnant let's have a baby

I get so turned on wow by having a baby because I know I'm not going to have a baby. And it's like my escapism. It's my fantasy. Yeah. Do you feel like, where do you think this like myth that South Asian women, because I feel like people think South Asian women are all really fertile.

Mainly because look at the population of India, right? I mean, we can't all be good at that. And also like both my parents are one of 10 in my head i never felt like i would have any problems with fertility because i was like oh like both i come from a big indian family like i'm gonna be fine and this sounds really stupid and i'm an actual grown-up right i mean i've grown up saying this and i'm gonna admit it i thought exactly i was like well brown women are baby making machines i'm one of six my dad's one of eight how hard can it be india has a population

of a billion. Bangladesh is the most densely populated country in the world. I'm like, we got a lot of problems, but making babies is not one of them. I just I assume that would be the case for me as well before I started. And like I said, I just was so scared of being pregnant that I didn't ever think that I might run into some issues because we don't ever talk about these things. It's this idea of like a timeline that I think is really interesting. I mean, this is all women, not just South Asian women, but if you're South Asian, unfortunately, your timeline's shifted earlier.

Like everything must happen a bit quicker. You're old by the time you're 25. Exactly. I mean, it's not fair that there is a timeline, but biologically there is a timeline. And sadly like that, we have to think about that. Men do not have to think about that. So I've told all my girl mates, if you want to freeze your eggs, you need to start doing it. Men do not have to think about that. So I've told all my girl mates, if you want to freeze your eggs,

you need to start doing it now. And the doctor I spoke to, she said, yeah, 30. Ideally, the younger, the better. Who at the age of 26 is thinking about it? But it's exactly like Rubina said, you do have to start thinking about it. It's a sad reality of being a woman. We don't own our bodies.

Of course we own our bodies, but society, the woman's body is basically open for interpretation judgment and you can say what you like like we don't have a say in our own bodies as it's evidently clear from what we put on our bodies in our bodies on our heads it's it's it's sadly that is this that is our reality and you you do have to start doing basic math so like i speak to girls in their 30s who just turned 30 who have no interest in having kids. They might want to have kids by the time they're 35, 36.

You find that really naive when you meet somebody now. I mean, because we're in our 30s when they come to you and they're, like, 26 and they're like, by the time I'm 30, I'm going to have three kids. And you're like, cool, bro. Good luck with life. I really hope it all works out. But if it doesn't, here are some options that you could consider.

I am that person. I have to rein it in, actually. Seetal, so you've obviously told us about your journey. What's the kind of one takeaway? What have you learned from it all? I know there have been many things. So many things, actually. It's hard to just condense it to one.

But I think one of the main things is that fertility issues, miscarriage, alternate path to parenthood like adoption, surrogacy and donor conception. Those things are more common than we realize. And there's so much more work to be done within our communities, families, friendship groups, everywhere just to normalize these conversations so people are aware of it. And we can banish the stigma which exists, especially within South Asian communities. And that there's a lot of support out there. For the first couple of years, I felt really abnormal and alone, even though I am fortunate to be able to confide in my immediate family and close friends. Everyone has been very understanding, which isn't the case for everyone I know but whatever works for you listening to

podcasts like these or books or films closed Facebook groups etc there are a lot of places that you can go for support and people who will validate everything that you feel and not be dismissive with the platitudes like oh just stay strong you need to be positive and you know that they mean well you know when they say things like well have you thought about adoption I mean of course I have you know I've been on this road for a while but it's not appropriate that must be the worst one actually I hear people say that all the time because you're like you know actually adopting a child is quite a complicated long rigorous process and actually not everyone gets just a kid like that they're not just giving them out unless you go to India actually maybe that would be. Well, I think commercial surrogacy is banned now in India.

But yeah, a lot of people used to go there for that as well. And it wasn't quite right for us. But for some people, it is an option worth exploring. So, yeah. Well, I mean, you've been amazing. And I think, you know, congratulations on your pregnancy and your future family. How exciting. Thank you.

We're going to take a break, get some soy chai tea matcha lattes. That is the whitest thing you've ever said. I know. But stick with us as we're going to talk about the impact of our fertility on our sex lives. Everything I Know About Love, the TV show, is finally here and we are obsessed. Do you want to dive with some stories or do you want to sleepwalk into your own grave? I'm Sophie Duker. And I'm Olga Carr.

Join us as we take a deep dive into the romantic comedy adapted from Dolly Alston's best-selling memoir. We'll go on a journey with Birdie, Maggie, Nell and Amara as they navigate love, friendships and heartache filled with disastrous dates, wild nights out and dancing in Camden's finest dive bars. Don't forget grubby house shares and laughable landlords. Oh gosh, I'm having vivid flashbacks to 2012 now. How long has this thing been there? Uh, since we moved in. Obsessed with everything I know about love. Listen on BBC Sounds.

Brown girls do it too. So one thing I wanted to talk about was contraception, because I recently went to, you get, after you have a baby, you have like a GP check-up, where they check you out, they check you that you're okay. Mostly they just check that you you're not sad like most of it's about your mental health which is great yeah that's really really important um but she was like so she was an asian doctor right and she was like so what are you doing for for contraception now and i was like

uh we're just gonna use condoms she was like that is not effective and i was like excuse me and i said to her i thought they were 99.9 effective that's literally what we've heard our whole lives and she was like you must use contraception. You're very fertile right now. Because I'm breastfeeding and I've just had a baby. And I just said to her, oh, no, I'm not doing any more things to my body. Like, you can wear a condom. Because, you know, I've just been through this whole pregnancy baby thing.

Like, maybe now my body could have a little bit of a breather. So I'm not eating a pill, injecting something into my arm, or inserting a coil into my vagina. I could just have some time off. And she was like, no, it's not a good idea. Really? She was like, you need to use more contraception than just a condom. Wow.

Yeah. That's insane. I know. Because you're basically a walking bag of hormones and you're just so, like, fertile-able. Like, you could just have babies constantly. Yeah, I mean, imagine imagine that you'd just be like on a fucking treadmill of baby

pregnant baby well this now makes sense between sisters four and five sisters four and five there's nine months difference between them so my mum was fertile as fuck yeah you really are and they do say don't they like when you're pregnant and you've given birth the second one comes easily

because your body's still prepped and primed for if you wanted to go straight away i'm sure it would happen easily but yeah this this asian doctor just didn't didn't want to believe that i didn't want to do anything to my body she was like you must are you in the pill then and then she was like i'm she was like i'm gonna write in your notes that i've given you the advice and you've made this decision off your own merit i'm like sorry what did you think i was doing before i met you but i literally have been managing my contraception up until this point but now I've had a kid you're suddenly worried about my facility so are you on the pill then no we're using condoms okay fine ribbed wow we've ripped condoms they're actually right ribbed ribbed what does that mean it means

they've got like kind of texture on them so it's for like my pleasure oh nice you know have you slept with somebody before and then got a condom and they're like oh no i don't really like condoms or condoms don't work for me and i'm like i'm sorry i'm sorry this condom's not going to work for you i've obviously been shagging around and it is shocking shocking how many a men just don't like condoms and what's worse is that I actually had one man say to me it's your responsibility to get a condom What the fuck?

Yeah, it's your responsibility to get a condom Why, because it's your penis? Yeah, exactly It's so lax So what happened? What did you do? I mean, it was done all in the name of friendly banter Right But I'm an idiot

and also because I've got this cum You're like, oh, sorry, I'll just go to the toilet and get a condom. Or I should go to the offy. They sell condoms in men's toilets. Men's responsibility. Like every guy I've been with, they haven't even bothered to bring a condom, ask if they

should wear a condom, bar one guy. If I don't bring it up, they don't care. Another guy guy one guy cared about STDs but so lax

and to the point where it's like yeah it's your responsibility it's your problem it's like sex sexual health amongst

21 to 26 year olds very bad did everyone just get that Poppy is sleeping with people who are between

21 and 26. How old are you, Poppy? 36. I'm a geriatric millennial. If that doesn't make you a fucking baller, I don't know what does. Mate, I'm like proper. I don't know what does.

It is disgusting. Just like 18-year-olds these days. They don't know what they're doing. Do you know it's really bad? I mean, I was tempted to do this. I was like, don't be that person. But I mean, I did it once oh like you just i'm just gonna your contraception is the morning after pill oh that's bad that is bad but i mean a lot of people do that

yeah yeah i know loads of girls were like yeah i've just i've had the morning after like five times i feel like it's the most asian part of my like sexual promiscuous times was being like always a condom always a condom always even a one-night stand condom yeah even if i was wasted out of my mind condom i never i wasn't using a condom at all and then i had to get a proper mot test the other day hiv fucking swab up the rectum everything got a clean bill and now i'm like thank you now i'm like i will be using a condom but it's also but like do you find condom like a like a mood kill for you as well no not really i don't either i'm sorry like people who are like yeah oh my god then we have to go look for the condom i'm like guys if you want to have

sex right you know it's gonna happen if it's on any cards that's why it's in the bedside table yeah i know just reach over but because i've got that cum fantasy because you know because i've got that cream pie coming in my vagina fantasy the crampampé one, yeah? The crampé one. I don't want them to use a condom. Oh. So I'm blaming these men. It's also my fault. But you also kind of like it. It's also like fully my fault.

Yeah. I had this guy at university that I fancied so much and we'd always get really close to almost having sex but he would never want to use a condom so we never had sex. Whoa.

Because I was always like, no, no, no. But I think I was doing that kind of Asian girl thing where I was like, no, no, no. You chase me I was doing that kind of like, you know, Asian girl thing where I was like, no, no, no. You chase me, you want me. You got to go as a condom. I'm a pure lady. Oh my God.

Yeah, it's shocking. So what contraception are you on now? I'm Marvellum. Marvellum? Sorry, we're not giving up. That sounded like a fucking Charlie and the Chocolate Factory ride. Marvellum so i'm on marvellum sorry we're not giving up that sounded like a fucking charlie in the chocolate factory it's a ride so marvellum so i i am actually on the pill so i don't need to use it i don't they don't need to use it but but actually if they're shagging around and i'm

shagging around absolutely someone needs to get a glove on there needs to be something um for just the fucking chlamydia and clap situation um but it's, honestly, I've done a survey. It says, I've gone out there, I've gone into the wild. Tested the waters. I've tested the waters. Nobody knows what they're doing. And nobody knows what they're doing. And these young men, they fucking hate using condoms.

I'm telling you this now. And then, like, in the line of men who are like, no condom, no condom, no condom, no condom, condom wasn't even talked about. And then you suddenly get one saying condom, you're like, you're almost insulted. You're like, why? The other 20 guys didn't want to do that. You like but why is my is my pussy not good for you do you think i'm the

type of woman who would have herpes yeah do you think that i have the clap what is anyway so you it's it's very messed up yeah that's so interesting yeah i mean i mean like we're the ones who always have to deal with with thinking about contraception and thinking about fertility. And it's always, oh, like, because they're, you know, they can just. I haven't known a lot of people who do the pull out method though, still. No, it's always, we have to think about everything. So to give you another example, I've got cystitis from too much fucking. Has he got anything?

No, it's me. It's always women. Can men get UTIs? Men can get UTIs. Maybe one of them's got UTIs. Honestly, let me explain. Like, contraception, pills, hormones, emotional mental rages that women have to go through.

Then they cream pie in you. You're running to the loo to prevent the very thing that I have, cystitis, because you should wee straight after sex. Yeah, exactly. Right? Then you've got cum dripping down your leg. It's just a mess. Everything is a mess. Isn't it? Like, after sex, when someone's coming to you, everything is a mess all you want to do is lie down and like

spoon but they're like oh yeah and then you're like I must clean myself out with antibacterial soap and also because I like a good thrashing I don't come from oral sex so you get cystitis from the bacteria being pushed up your urethra and I've literally had

I'm on antibiotics right now get cystitis from the bacteria being pushed up your urethra and i've literally had this this is my i'm on antibiotics right now and it's so bad and i still have sex when i'm on cystitis this is actually the amazing paradox with my mom as well about this podcast where she's like um so today i was saying i'm going in to talk about fertility and like having a baby and she was like oh that's good that's good so you're moving away from the sex topic and i'm like how do you think i had the baby you know because she's like oh i just thought you were branching out i'm like it's still the same thing like i know people who are like weird about us talking about sex on this podcast but now we're talking about fertility it's like everything comes from sex yeah like literally sex is like the opener

to so many things yeah and you can't guess what you can't have a baby without having sex so if your auntie wants you to have a baby

but doesn't want to hear about your cystitis she needs to get on it yeah she does and she needs to take the good with the bad okay but it's true

like everyone has feels they've got the license to ask you and pry about your private life yeah and when are you going to be a mum and it's been a while and you and Ranjit have been married for five years but sex yeah hell

will freeze over or worse they're like they're kind of talking behind your back and saying like there's a problem there yeah like i know that i've heard my mom say it you know like you know maybe i think they've got an issue there it's like what maybe they're just deciding not to or whatever and i i mean it took me a year to get pregnant. It was a year of like, just, you know, I mean, we were pissing about quite a lot and didn't really realise we had to do all this kind of maths. But like, it took me a while. And my mum was definitely like, you know, what's going on?

And she started to get really worried. Like, she was worried about it not happening. And I was like, God, if it hadn't happened. Yeah. Thank God she's got another. She would not be thinking of me. She's got a grandson already. Yeah, exactly. It's true. And we've had boys as well. Yeah. You God she's got another... She would not be thinking of me. She's got a grandson already. Yeah, exactly.

It's true. And we've had boys as well. Yeah. You know what I mean? But then this is the other thing, the maths. No one fucking tells you that you have like two days

where you're like fully ovulating. Yeah, and spam can live inside you for seven days. What do they teach us in school? No. Why am I learning this on my own sex podcast with you?

This is tragic. The national curriculum is bollocks. It's fucked. I don't need Pythagoras' theorem. I need to know Why am I learning this on my own sex podcast with you? This is tragic. The national curriculum is bollocks. I don't need Pythagoras' theorem. I need to know when I'm fucking ovulating so I can have fucking amazing sex and all those other things. With that condom. I knew you were going to say that.

Oh my God. Thanks so much for listening. We hope you've kind of got some information or just some laughs that you and your ovaries are chuckling away wherever you are. I mean, I've learned stuff. You've learned stuff.

I learn stuff every day from my podcast. I'm like, really? Didn't know that. Really, Ravina? Didn't know that either. Still don't know where my clit is. Or rather, I do know where my clit is, but I'm like,

when the guys are doing stuff around it, I'm like, I'm not really, it's nothing. It doesn't, I told you this already. It doesn't just, it's not always there. It just like pops out later when you touch it too much. Why don't you just find it? You've got to kind of lure it out. It's so meta.

I'm like, how does one lure out the clit? Talk to me. Tell me. You know you and I are going to be. It's like the fan, fan, fan. And it pokes out its little head and it's hoodie of the glitterous

it's so funny of the glitterous it's like the funniest thing I'm actually crying I need to stop this is delusion this is delusion if you have any

kind of thoughts comments or stories you'd like to share with us we'd love to hear from you please email in to browngirls do it too at bbc.co.uk. Thanks for listening.

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