Brown Girls Do It Too - Icons with Sindhu Vee

Episode Date: March 7, 2025

How do you define an icon? Are icons always iconic? Can you do iconic things but not be an icon?Comedian Sindhu Vee joins Poppy and Rubina for International Women's Day to discuss. Sindhu discusses the women who have inspired parts of her personality, Poppy remembers the moment she saw her mum in a completely different light and Rubina is sceptical about the whole icons thing.Have a message for Poppy and Rubina? If you’re over 16, you can message the BGDIT team via WhatsApp for free on 07968100822. Or email us at [e-mail] you're in the UK, for more BBC podcasts listen on BBC Sounds: bbc.in/3UjecF5

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Hi, I'm ecologist Dr. Rae Wingrant, and on Dear Daughter Stars, I'm sharing a letter to my daughter about how to conquer self-doubt and talking about the time I got chased by a bear. Dear Daughter Stars from the BBC World Service. Listen now by searching for Dear Daughter wherever you the BBC World Service. Listen now by searching for Dear Daughter wherever you get your BBC podcasts. BBC Sounds music radio podcasts.

Do you swear on the Bible of Beyonce? Worship at the Temple of Taylor. Pray on the pilgrimage of Papa Roach. What? Arrive at the altar of Adam and the Ants. Mate, you've lost me. Yeah, let's just do the warning. This podcast contains strong language and themes of an adult nature. When was the last time you had sex? Because when brown girls get down, the world tends to have a little something to say.

And we've got something to say right back. This is a podcast about sex. Why we've got something to say right back. This is a podcast about sex. Why we can't stop thinking about it. Talking about it. And doing it. And doing it. You have to do it.

I'm Poppy and the most iconic thing about me is that I went to do my hodge and then I went straight to Burning Man Festival. That's very iconic. That's pretty fucking hot. And on your like dating profile. So very good. Thank you. I'm Rubina. And the most iconic thing about me is that yesterday I managed to catch a Maltese in my mouth whilst holding my five month old. That's pretty rad. Yeah, it was really good.

Today is our favorite holiday International Women's Day, which is basically every day for us at Brown Girls do it too. And so today we are celebrating by talking about the icons of our generation. Which is why we are joined by comedian, actress and let's face it, a total icon, Cindy V. Come on, you are, you are. You are. Watch your stuff. I want your stuff.

That word's too big. Really? You wouldn't call yourself an icon? We can call you an icon. I don't know. I mean, anyone can call anyone anything. Yeah, really. You wouldn't call yourself an icon. We can call you an icon. I don't know. I mean, anyone can call anyone anything. Yeah, true. What is the criteria for an icon? And we're Asian as well, so it's higher than normal. Do you know what I mean? What's the criteria for you, Cindy V, in order to be called an icon?

What must you do? Listen, man, I think to be an icon, you have to have seen a lot and been important a lot across generations. Okay. Across generations. Across generations. So then you're an icon. That's a good metric actually. That's a good metric.

So the people that in the last 20 years we think are iconic, but are the icons. On your way to being icon, you have to be iconic and then to see how it lasts. Mother Teresa was iconic and an icon, but then she turned out to be a right bitch. So no one likes her. She was only an icon in the West. Let's be clear. I grew up in India and no one was like, oh, there's an icon. Really?

Yeah, we were like, there's a religious lady who's converting a lot of people who are poor and don't have other choices. She was also like money laundering. She was doing all sorts of fucking dirty shit. She was, listen, man, she was a part of the Vatican. Okay, enough said. I mean, you know, it's a, I'm not saying that everyone in the Vatican is a bad guy or anything. I'm just saying she was part of that machine and she did those things. But I think that's funny because that's like the term icon I really struggle with because

for me, when I was growing up, the word icon was like, we do not worship icons. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like, we do not worship icons, something we do. And it's like, we do not worship icons. And the internet is littered with people just being like, literally iconic. You're an icon. She has tag icon. And that's why I was really going to struggle with today's episode because I was like, I think it would take a lot for me to call someone an icon. Hundred percent. And also you can call someone an icon with a small I, not capital. Yeah. Or on caps. You know, that's why I do my stories. Yeah. But I'm saying some of the things, some of the things my grandmother did for her daughters and that my mother did for us, I think are iconic in given

where they were coming from and the, the sort of belief systems they had to just obliterate out of their brain and say, no, this is about my daughter. I think it's iconic, but do I think they're icons? No, this word icon, no, this is about my daughter. I think it's iconic. But do I think they're icons? No. This word icon, man, it's just it's I think it's overused now. Yes. But I'm part of the problem, sadly. But I do think you can use it tongue in cheek and everyone knows. I think Nelson Mandela is an icon. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But again, what the other problem with icon I have is that, listen, there's always a mythology with any icon. And as we get more information, just like your mother Teresa example, some of the iconic stuff they did, there was other stuff they did. So what are you going to do? Keep finding people inspiring and then keep cancelling people. And that's just how, when are we going to accept that without light, there is no dark and without dark, there is no light? But I think there's something that we do in society.

Afwa Hirsch did this amazing documentary that I worked on about Winston Churchill. Now, Winston Churchill, by many in this country, would be regarded as iconic and an icon. He led this country through a war. But what Afwa Hirsch did so beautifully is she said that he was responsible for a fucking famine that killed millions of Bengalis.

He was a bit of a dick. It's like you said, the light and the dark. We put people in a pedestal and this whole thing obviously coming from Muslim backgrounds is that you don't worship idols. You know, in Islam, you don't even have a photo of them. Although you love the Aga Khan, don't you? It's so different, yeah.

Are you Ismaili? She's Ismaili. Amazing. Yeah. I was going to a mom's car and I was like, why is there a fucking white man's photo in your mom's car? What's going on?

The Aga Khan, I didn't realize. Because we don't have any photos or photographs at all. And so it is overused, but I think it's just tongue in cheek internet speed. 100%. Also times change, man. So the stuff that I find acceptable now,

my grandparents would not have. So the stuff that I find acceptable now, my grandparents would not have. So someone who was iconic now, wearing a bikini, doing something on stage, my grandparents would never start thinking that that was iconic, but I think it's a sign of maybe being very liberated. And I think there's such a long list of women,

since this is International Women's Day episode, that I find very inspiring, but for different reasons. And I can guarantee each of those women has something in their life which we were like, that they weren't proud of or that I'm not particularly happy about. But you have to look at the lane they were in when they inspired you. Do you think you ever look at people, these people that you admire, and form parts of your personality based on traits that they've exhibited that you admire and form parts of your personality based on traits that they've exhibited that you like? Some of the women I have in mind

for sure and it was not something I was aware of at the time because some of these women influenced me when I was very young and I was raised in India so there was a very fixed track I was on but as I've grown older and seen some of my behaviors around men you know there's the sexual self you think you are you wish you could be and then there's you and I've sometimes thought where's that coming from and turns out it was from her and I'm like oh well no but it's good it was inspiring yeah a lot of anger in you puppy

episode and an episode about hair and I'm just genuinely kind of amazing. What are you talking about? Also you just like nailed the reading of Poppy in just a second. But it's perfect. But it's good. It's fine. Right now I'm feeling fine. No, but anger is a good thing.

She's a lion. Yeah. But I have to say, I always find this thing about people like, why are you so angry and angry women? And I'm like, I'll tell you why. Because we're smarter than you. We're already seeing things and we're like, why is this going this way? I mean, my kids are now they look back and they're like, bro, and we were little you were pissed off. I'm like, I was because I was staying at home all the time.

I was going crazy. Yeah. Talking about iconic mothers. I think my criteria for what is an icon has changed. So maybe five, 10 years ago, it would have been like some of that Beyonce or whatever. But now iconic to me, I guess maybe this is me sounding a bit worthy, but like, are you using your platform for a cause? And maybe I'm going through my activist face. I don't know, but I'm definitely much more politically charged now. Like you have this huge platform. You've got to put out stuff that we all care about that matter to humanity. So that's why it's changed.

But that can damage your brand. Like Dolly Parton, I would consider an icon. I'm a big fan of Dolly Parton. And she always kept quite politically neutral purposefully because a lot of Dolly fans sit on both sides of the political spectrum. So why would she ever fuck up her brand? Because she is managing to access

and voice to all of those people. Yeah, but you picked a good example. If Dolly Parton was born 10 years ago, she couldn't remain neutral now. Well, I don't, not certainly not to me and my friends, because I'm not saying you got to pick a side. She's almost like timeless and classic. She was born at a time. And that that's a skill. Yes. She's timeless. And she stayed right where everyone's like, oh, Dolly Parton, cool. Because everyone, by the way, her tits are iconic. Yeah. I always want to say. But and her whole look. Yeah. And even now, when I look at her, I'm like, yeah, I'll take that. Yeah. And it's like everything is made of plastic. But it's fine. It's like, and I mean, the Kardashians, I do not accept any of their plastic. That's interesting. I'm like, oh God.

You know, but her, I'm like, sure. And I think what it is, the thing that's very important to me to bring to people, because I'm a comic, so obviously I'm not doing it to not be famous. I want people to listen to me. And I don't know how this is going to sound, but by virtue of being a brown woman, I am politicized a lot. My PhD was in political science. I did it, or political theory, for 10 years. So politics is what I lived, breathed, my father worked in the government. And yet the thing that

I always think is, whoever I'm in front of, I want to bring you a moment of joy. I may not like your politics, but I probably would say, you know, if you're going to laugh and feel a bit of joy, great. I guess that's what Dolly does, right? There you go. And Dolly brings joy. And I think part of the reason Dolly brings joy is because we know that she has pain. But the Kardashians would argue we bring joy because we never talk about politics either. Yeah, but you bring pain that we don't want. I wondered, do you, do we think that our criteria of a female icon, do we think we scrutinize them a bit more than male icons?

Well, I was thinking, I mean, I'm usually going to use icon in the most like lower sense of the term, but when I was growing up, the people I looked up to and the people that occupied my walls and my posters, all men, Backstreet Boys, Angel from Buffy, Nick Carter, he had like a big old wall and some footballers. And I was like, that was it. Those are the people I really looked up to. I have an older brother, so I was a bit of a tomboy and those are the things I imagined for myself. And actually, when I think about my personality and those people that I've taken bits off to make mine, all men. Yeah. Isn't that awful? And male, so when I was, this is so bad. Please forgive me.

Nothing is bad. Please forgive me. So when I grew up, and you know this because I follow your career, all the panel shows, they have like the one token woman and then it's mostly guys, right? And I listened to this amazing Radio 4 piece many, many years ago. And she was saying the way men joke with other men is different to the way women joke with other women. And so on those panel shows, when you have one woman, they're all just like, you know how men are like rinsing each other, rubbing each other.

I'm not saying women don't do that. It just sounds like men are funnier. So I grew up with these panel shows and I just, I liked and preferred the humor of men. It was all I was exposed to. That's also all you heard. And it's also all I heard. And when there was, and this is bad, but honest, when I saw the one woman, the one woman, she

paled in comparison. She wasn't as funny. She wasn't getting as many laughs. None of the men were responding to her. She was just there. And so I grew up for a long time, really, thinking men were funnier. And actually, the funniest people in my life are women.

Because you're from South Asia, that's why. It's a fact. So I grew up in India. From zero to four, I was in India. Who can remember zero to four? But then we moved to the Philippines, and I went to an American school, and I watched American television.

So I was early on exposed to American television. And I was, must have been four and a half when I first saw Carol Burnett. She's a comedian, she had the Carol Burnett show. And other kids wanted to watch Sesame Street. And I wanted to come home and watch Carol Burnett. She's a character act and she's incredibly funny. And I remember watching her and thinking, she's so funny. And she had her own show.

And I used to watch it on repeat. I watched Muppet Show because that had a lot of humor. Sesame Street, I was like, why is a bird telling me the alphabet? You're so highbrow from a four-year-old. I was like, yeah, but I think it's because I always had this thing about making people laugh. So I didn't realize it, but that's kind of where I went.

Then we came back to India. No television, no nothing, closed economy, two channels, one showing gardening and one showing the news in black and white and Bollywood. And Bollywood, typically the only funny women were Tuntun and the fat ladies that I want to make fun of. But then I became part of Indian women at home and they are funny, South Asian women are funny. But we have this thing about we don't do it in public.

As a woman in public, you have to be beautiful and demure. But behind closed doors, every woman, my aunts, my ruckus. Yeah. And shameless. Naughty. Yes, really naughty. But also very, yeah, naughty, shameless, very acerbic. So I was exposed to, very early on, exposed to the idea that there's an entire television show about a woman,

and it's all these sketches, but she's the center of it. So I never thought women were not funny, because then I went from that to India. And then my father and his friends would joke and laugh, but the funniest person in the room was my mom. And she would tell jokes at parties. And then all the men would gather around her and she'd say, I will tell you a non-veg joke. It was like a dirty joke. Right. And, um, so I never watched British television panel shows, so I was simply not exposed to a bunch of men telling jokes on TV, but my impulse to be funny was absolutely a non-starter

for my mother because she was like, you're an unmarried girl. You cannot be walking into rooms being loud. But she was married and had kids. So then in India, and I guess in South Asia, once you marry, you have a cloak of respectability. You can do whatever you like. So when I started comedy in this country

and I became exposed to this idea that, which seems to be ingrained that women aren't funny, I would always be like, huh? So I'd be like, what are they talking about? The great good fortune that I had was I walked in with an enormous amount of... Confidence? No diffidence.

I didn't have confidence but I didn't have diffidence. It was naivety. Well, I had no idea that women weren't funny. I thought this is all rubbish. But the thing that was very hard was the stuff I did watch was all these fair actresses in Bollywood being the heroines. And to bring this right back to one of the people that I think is iconic for me growing up was Rekha, the actress.

Now what happened was she was South Indian, I'm half South Indian, she was dark, and my idol, since I was seven, till today, is Amitabh Bachchan. And she was the heroine with him, and maybe she was his mistress. I think she was, actually. I think she was.

And she was dark and she was sexy and she was single. She never married and she was hot, but not cheap. Yeah. And I remember watching her and not realizing that for me, that was the goal. You had some really important guy who was your lover. You were dark. You sang, you danced, but you were not pinned down to anybody. And you existed just as Rica. You had one name and you didn't sing about sex.

Beyonce. Yeah, but Beyonce has Jay-Z and her children. Rika had nothing. Yeah. And as a brown woman as well, as an Indian woman as well. Well, I only saw brown women. Yeah. I didn't see any of this here, right? I only saw. But I mean, as a brown woman, you were expected to get married. The pressure of marriage and in-laws and all this shit, right?

Yes. But she wasn't, she was a heroine. She embodied whoever she was so clearly that even women weren't like, oh, she's cheap. They were like, rei kako dekho, wow. You know, at a very young age, I remember thinking, that's the goal. And I always wanted to be married, have kids. But I didn't want it to be any part of who I was. Interesting, yeah. And I didn't realize that until I started doing comedy. And then I was, I remember thinking about it thinking, oh, and I really unpacked that thing about Rika and it's such strong childhood messaging about you're too dark, you know, you'll never get married well. You've got to be doubly smart than everyone else because of your skin color. Cause I was very dark and you're too tall and 5'10".

But Rekha managed to pull everything off. And now she's in her, what, late seventies, looks like a million bucks and still dresses fully Indian. Oh, I know. But she also did Kamasutra, that movie. Yeah. And she went all like Western and she has owned it. She doesn't need anything.

She's Rekha. Yeah, she's almost like, sexually, so sexy, but we just don't know. She doesn't need anything. She's Rekha. Yeah, she's almost like, sexy, so sexy, but we just don't know. She reminds me of Cher. Yeah. You know, some of those icons are iconic. Yep. Exactly. You know that really famous clip where the interviewer says to Cher, do you need a man?

And then she says, her mom says, do you need a man? And then she says, I am the man. I am the rich man. And I was like, exactly. And what's interesting to me about Cher and Rekha is Cher had all those chances because of how liberated the West was to be on a stage saying, I don't need a man. Rekha didn't have that chance. She said nothing ever. And yet she communicated so much. She, to me, is someone who's iconic for that reason. And I think sexuality, because

I think your podcast does talk a lot about sex. Am I right? Yeah. As a South Asian woman, and this has changed so much in the last 15, 20 years in India, because there's always been an instinct within the Indian female psyche, I think, to push for some kind of liberation, at least in my opinion, you know. Growing up, every Bollywood movie, every heroine was sexual, but she wasn't able to talk about it. She was sexualized.

And I think that's something that in South Asian psyche for women is if you have a husband he can sexualize you but if you ever sexualize yourself, ta-ba-ta-ba-ba, that's it, then you're dead. Then, not even slay, you should be dead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You should be dead. But I actually think that currently on stage, you know, I'm working on new material and I'm, it's about sex and I don't really, I haven't, I typically don't talk about stuff

like that. I've been talking about my parents. It's very interesting. The ability to be funny about it. That's Indian. Yeah. People do not expect brown women to get up and be like, here's some real deep sex talk, like funny, because we're almost asexual, right? The ability to be able to talk about it and laugh, I think is very Indian in me.

It's the South Asian woman. And do you see what I mean? Yeah, no. to be able to talk about it and laugh, I think is very Indian in me. It's the South Asian woman in me. Do you see what I mean? Yeah, no. And so far with the works in progress I've been doing, the connection between me and every woman in the room is incredible. It's for everybody. It's funny.

Even the men laugh. So it's not against men. But it's more like a bit like what you were saying is, you know, if they're sexualized by a man, it's the male gaze. And actually when you look through a woman's eyes and look at sex through a woman's eyes, it's like it's actually all this incredible stuff that you never have seen or heard or spoken about. And that's exactly right.

And I talk about the lover's gaze and how much it affects women's orgasms and it's researched. There's anthropological reasons. And I talk about that and there's a surge of confidence I felt when I first started doing it on stage. And I thought, oh, this is all those women in my ancestry, all female, sitting together, laughing, talking, never putting men down, but just recognizing what powerhouses they are sexually. But never having had a chance to articulate it.

So they joke about it. Because to come back to Dolly, one of the things she said is, laughter through tears is my favorite way of laughing. And that ability to articulate and have the confidence that comes from being South Asian. For sure. For all those conversations I heard, you know, because also our mothers and aunts, they do not filter anything around us. They just say whatever. And then they're like, please go and get me a cup of tea. You're like, I can't believe I just heard that. Yeah, that's really interesting. I feel like you've just really tapped into something about

almost what this podcast is. So like all these South Asian women are talking raucously in the kitchen together because they expect that no one else will hear them. And when we started this podcast, we were like, no one's going to listen. And maybe we were just so unfiltered because it was like we were rep in the kitchen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah. And now I'm on stage being like, yeah, exactly. And actually, because you were so unfiltered there, it's like so raw coming onto stage. Yeah. And for me, because my husband is not Indian and, you know, he's Scandinavian. He's like, you're a comic, you're going to do what you're going to do. And I live in the West.

I'm sure it would have been the same if I lived in India. I think it would have been a bit more tricky because my cousins would have been like, what are you talking about? Are you crazy? They haven't heard anything yet. They'll say that later. But it's fantastic to me because I was never taught to speak like this, but in fact I was. I was just not taught to speak like this outside of our. You nailed it. You just nailed it. I remember being eight and it was like a wedding. So obviously the night before a wedding house goes into overdrive, like you make the tiles. So my mom and all the sassies, they're around the floor, they're all cutting shit.

And I just walk in and they are, it's like, you know, when you hear like five dirty men making dirty jokes and they're like, taking a swig of whiskey. And I just was blown away by these conversations. I'd never heard this side of my mom come out, this naughty, dirty, filthy. I knew it, I knew they were making dirty jokes. And I just was in- Non-veg.

Non-veg. So good. I was in awe, because I'd never seen them like this. And actually with other women, they were, I don't know what the Bengali word is, you know when you sing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They were singing. All the wedding songs. Allali word is, you know when you like sing? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They were singing. Oh, the wedding songs. Oh, the wedding songs. And I was just like, God, none of these women need a glass of wine or a spliff. They eat after, they're just flying. And then I felt a bit, not sad, but I guess as the years went on, it's like, it is confined to the kitchen. I feel like also with Asian women, we put a lot of pressure on them as our icons. And

in fact, I love Mindy Kaling. And when all of us have stuff in the office to the Mindy Kaling show to that drama that you wrote, I wanted to support it and love it and get really into it. And I mostly was. And then I think we're really quick to put lots of pressure on them. Do you have lots of Asian women coming up to you being like, you have made me get into comedy or the reason I'm here? I think it's a very normal human reaction. You see someone like you and you think,

I want you to do good. You know, I don't want that next person. Do I feel like I'm under pressure? I mean, you can only be under pressure if you take pressure. If I'm not taking it, then I'm not feeling it. I've never done anything in my life based on the premise that I am a particular race or religion or gender. I have done what I wanted to do, and I've been very lucky.

And I know why I have that mindset. It's a function of the family I grew up in, the time I grew up in, how my father raised us, the fact that I had no brothers, the fact that my mother would not have more children because she was scared she'd have a son and that would fuck up her two daughters' lives because in India it's a big deal. My parents were very open-minded and were very particular about women going ahead. I'm half South Indian.

That society used to many, many, many, many hundreds of years ago, be matriarchal. So I know why, but I don't dwell on it. You know, I just say this is how I am. If I'm on the way up, I want to bring up, I want to bring people up and I want to start with women. Not because I think women are more needy or because they're better than men, but because nine times out of ten, if not ten times out of ten, they will have faced a structural barrier. Absolutely. Right?

And so that's where I think of myself as a woman and that's a woman. Outside of that, I'm not conscious of it as I go into situations. So when people come to me and women come to me and say, oh my God, I can't believe you're saying this and you're South Asian, I get it. When I started doing comedy in the UK, there was a brown mom-shaped hole that no one was, and I stepped into it. And people were like, oh my God, you're so funny.

But it's also something that no one else was talking about. And let's, you know, being brown, being a mom, I came to comedy much later in life than anyone I knew. No one was talking about those things because no one had had those experiences. I'm sure if I was in India, it might've been a little bit harder to be, maybe there will be four of me.

You know, here there was one of me. And also I'm incredibly funny. Joke, joke, JK, JK, LOL, as my kids would say. So I think when people said to me, oh, are you representing? There's gonna be women who will say, you know, sometimes I get feedback saying, why do you swear so much? You know, Indian women, it's usually always men.

You know, women from our culture mustn't swear. I love the little shoulder joke. It's always brown men, Indian men saying it to you. Always men. And I always say, brother, then you please go and listen to some other. Because swearing is not allowed here.. Here I will be swearing. If they get upset, then I say, okay, fine. I mean, what to do? You must find someone else who is not talking about this and go and listen. Because it's very subjective.

Yeah, of course. Do you think that's come from you looking at your mother and seeing her carry a room that you feel like you want to emulate that? Like, where do you think that kind of sense of wanting to bring people joy or laugh comes from in you? It's a very good question. I've often thought about it as I've been in some like train station in buttfuck in the middle of the night. Why am I doing this?

There's always those existential moments coming. No, no, no. Which is like the most rapey thing ever. And you're like, oh, how am I going to get... And there's like two other guys on the platform and you're like, this is rapey, this is weird. And yeah, that kind of thing. And then you think, why am I doing this?

When I say something and people laugh, the feeling it gives me is such a gift. Why would I not do it again and again? It's like you're high, I guess, right? It's not so much the adrenaline, it's that moment of incredible connection with everyone in the room. I said something, you laughed, I saw you, you saw me, we're on the same page. It's a really nice connection with other people in my species. And I don't know if it was from watching my mom or,

you can say all kinds of things. I was at the American school when I was very young, and I was the only non-white kid, and I got bullied so badly. And I talk about it in my special that's coming out on the 14th of March, and they used to call me blackie, and I didn't like it, and I had a stammer,

I had a terrible stammer, and I used to get the shit kicked out of me on a daily basis. But the only way they wouldn't do it is if I made them laugh. So I would tell jokes and they'd be like about to punch me and I'd be like, oh, and then you know the duck said and they'd be like, okay, fine, go ahead. So by the time I was 10, I was bulletproof because I was like, I'll be funny. You tested out all your material, you know what I mean? You're foolproof. Big time. You've also the power material, do you know what I mean? You're foolproof. Big time. You've also the power of like disarming someone with humor.

Being funny is a total superpower. And it can save your life on a playground. And my parents were, my mother would not pathologize the bullying stuff. She'd be like, either you beat them back or you tell teacher, you do not come to the house and cry. Means, you do not come to the house and cry. Buzdil. Yeah. It means, you know, weak.

So I said... That's such an Indian parenting to say. Yeah. Yeah. Mummy was like... Clean them up or go to the school and go to the teacher. Don't comment the wine to me. Don't wine to me.

Okay, fine. Apart from Carol Burnett, is there another... Rekha. We had Rekha. Yeah. Is there another kind of... We had Rekha. We had Carol Burnett.

And then there's a number of women that I, but they're not in the last 10 years. I mean, I think of Amelia Earhart, who flew across. Come on, man, at that time, come on. I often, in India, we used to have Marie Staub's clinic. And it was where you got an abortion. And like when we would drive by, then people would hush in hushed tones, but they existed. And my mother once in passing said to her sister,

yeah Marie Stopes was very good. She was also very good. And I remember talking to my mom about that much later in life, not in connection with Marie Stopes, but my mom who grew up in a North Indian land-owning family, very patriarchal, she said to me once that, you know, beta, my earliest memory of being a very wealthy landlord's daughter

was that I have no agency over my body or my life. If we did the wrong thing, we would disappear and it would be the right thing because it brings shame on the family. So she said, when I see you and I know you have had different boyfriend, and I know what you are doing with the boyfriend, I don't feel shame. I feel happy because you are owning your own body. And that when you make that connection, you think any woman

who at the time, back in the day when it was a big deal, well in the United States, it's a big deal today, understood that we must have agency in our own body. And it's not about, but the person in your body is another human, it's my body. That lady back then, I think of her as iconic. Your mom sounds iconic as well. Well, Marie Stopes was iconic, she started the clinic.

But my mother's thinking was definitely something that... Plus, these Indian mothers are always talking at you, you know? So it's not like you're processing, but later in life, you're like, oh, wait. Yeah. But I guess for her to say something like that, I think it was OK. Like abortion is acceptable. It's huge. No, and abortion, but also sex outside marriage. She would never say that to me.

Yeah. You know, she used to like once we went to a wedding I remember I'd come back I was in university here because the reason I'm allowed to leave India before marriage was I got a scholarship to a university here and it was a big deal and my parents are big on education. They said go and study come back then we will marry you and I wanted to have an arranged marriage so it was fine. Anyway and then I came back the first winter, and winter is always wedding time in India. I was standing with my mom at a wedding and she said,

Look at that girl there. She's from our colony, our neighborhood. And then she said in Hindi, I know, I know she has done the sex. She has done the sex. She has done the sex. I was like, she's done the sex. She has done the sex. I was like, she's done the sex. I said, shh, she has done the sex. You don't know all these things yet.

I was 24. I was like, okay. And then she said, she came from America. She's having sex tools. I'm like, tools? She's like, yeah, her, the lady who cleans her house, she came to clean her house. I gave her tea. She told me.

And I was like, oh my God, it's sex toys. And she said, toys? Toys are for children, you shameless. And then I told her, and then because she had gone to America later to do her sex tools, and she has done the sex. She has done the sex. That's so funny. We used to laugh about that so much. Who's this cleaner? What a snitch.

No, no, no. In India, these cleaning ladies, they're all like, you know, and they all loved my mom because she would pay for their kids' educations and get tea from them. And actual tea. And then come and tell me, usne seks karaye. I was like, why do you sound like that? Weirdo. Do you think sex has changed like in India? Big time. big time.

How has it changed? Well, there's internet in cities, people are much more liberal. You know, India has a very young population and relatively highly educated. Yeah. So there's very fertile ground, at least in cities, for things to emerge and to things to happen. Of course, it's not like here, but it's now young people will date boyfriends, girlfriends. No one's like, okay, I'm 18. I'm having an arranged marriage in the cities.

Cause I was going to say the version I get, and I know India is not like this because my cousins in Bangladesh are way more progressive and secular than us here. But a hundred percent. The diaspora here is like, we're stuck in a time war. No, no. And when I, I mean, I was always more liberal than any person I met here. I was like, what?

Interesting. So you think the diaspora, the British Asian diaspora here... Any diaspora is by virtue of being a diaspora more conservative because they've been trying to hold on to their culture. My cousins from Bangladesh, when they came here, they're like, why are you still wearing headscarves? We're just like, oh my God. But when I look at, when I read stuff about India, it's always in a really negative light. It's about the rape culture. It's about, and I'm, of course I know it's secular and it's progressive.

You just have to look at Indian cinema, drama, four more shots, please. All this made in heaven, like amazing shit coming out of India. But then you read the news reports about rape culture and all this shit going on in the villages. And so you have this really kind of like, what is going on? What is? Well, that's, that's, because first of all, India is socioeconomically so disparate. You know, you have middle class, lower middle class, lower, lower middle class, then you have the villages,

then you have different parts of the country. You have to think of the subcontinent as like Europe. So you would never say, well, I wonder why Copenhagen's not like Belgrade. Because look at the history, it's completely different. I didn't know that. Yeah, I mean, of course, all homogenous languages and dialects. And of course, the other thing is, rape culture is such a strong term. But I do agree that it's not safe for women in the way that it's safe here. You know, I could take the tube here at midnight

and not be too scared. In India, there are certain parts of India you wouldn't. In Bombay, you would be fine. Right? So I can't really get into it because it's very complicated, but I don't want to, I'm not an apologist at all for, oh, India is much safer than that. No, it's not. It's very, very tricky in certain parts of the country. It's also very untricky in certain parts of the country.

And that is reported about less. So that's one thing. The other thing I'll say is that I've always said this. To say that India has rape culture is to say that UK is pedophile culture. And no one reports on this country as a pedophile culture country, but goddamn, every time there's a really bad guy, he is a pedophile. And that is normalized as, oh, he's a pedo, he's a nonce, he's a pedo.

It happens so frequently, but we don't call the UK's pedophile culture. Most recently, the Archbishop had to resign because someone he knew was a very bad guy. What was he doing? Oops, pedophilia. So I will use the term rape culture when we start reporting on the UKers in this pedophile culture country. No one in India is reading the paper being like UK is pedo culture. There's a real systemic problem. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, totally.

Right? And I just think that's a phrase. And of course, let me, I'm not saying anything new. Western media's depiction and othering of non-Western cultures has been in history for hundreds of years. But none of this is to say that I think India is super safe for women. Many parts of India that are not safe for women. And when I was in India first, when I first went back to gig in India, I would go to certain towns

to gig and my father would say you have to take one of your male cousins. Because if you get on stage, men can get ideas. So yeah, India is like that. Wow. Yeah, of course. But you know, there's that. Swings and roundabouts. But there's also the other stuff. Yeah. Well, International Women's Day to nonces.

Yeah. I think we covered it all really. You know, I just want to say I don't look at the UK as pedo culture, but I think the reporting. Yeah. If you're going to use that phrase, then you better use this phrase because it's as systemic. Yes. I think it's a really interesting perspective, one that I've not had and I've really enjoyed talking to you. Thank you so much. I love talking to you guys. I feel like I talk to all the time. No, but that's the whole point you are's the whole point. We love talking to you. That would be weird if I never spoke. That would be really awkward for us.

You've reached the Shaggyney Auntie's call centre. Want advice you can't ask your real aunties for? Like, how do you ask for what you want in bed? Not sure which hole is a goal? Where do anal beads really go? Have you been faking orgasms your whole adult life? Accidentally called your boss daddy? Is your long time love not going down south? For more than just the tip, we're here for you.

Yes, you. And you. And you. And now we are your Shaggy aunties! Please remember to ask the bill payers permission before calling us. Shaggy aunties are not medical professionals and bear no responsibility for the consequences of your own actions. Hi Shaggy aunties. I need some help please. I've been with my boyfriend for about six years now and I absolutely love him. We're in a great relationship. However, we've stopped

making out. We have a great sex life, However, we've stopped making out. We have a great sex life. However, we always skip the making out part. I kind of miss it and I want to bring it back, but he loves a quick kiss and a peck. Help! Making out is so important. And I think when you're six years in, that's what happened with me and my ex partner. We stopped making out. First year making out like fucking rabid teenagers. Why do you think it kind of slows down? Because I agree, but I can't. Life, emails, work, busy, laundry, admin, you just get into the...

This is the thing about these long-term relationships that I've been badgering on about for years, is that magic that initially got you together. You replace it with sweatpants, you replace it with routine, there's nothing wrong with routine. You replace it with like, well, we can't have sex on a Tuesday

because I've got these things I need to do. Structure just seeps into your life. And so you just squeeze it. We talk about it, you know, when you had your first bulbs and then the second bulbs, it's like, look, me and me and my partner, we've got a squeezing, whatever we can, at whatever point. So it's like, I think in six years in or seven years in, you do a reset and you're like, hang on, we need to actively go back to who we were when we were year one dating. Couldn't keep our hands off each other. I saw something really good online the other day, which was like, take a video of the time that you felt butterflies so that both of you can look at it later. And I've got this really nice video of my partner when we went to Corsica. And I was just really into him

on that trip because that trip was just so good for us. And I shot this little video of him pretending to speak French and he was like, he's awful. His French is so fucking bad. And he looks really hot in the video. And I remember even in the start of our relationship, like watching that video over and over again, like that moment. Yeah. Because it really just takes you right back to that moment.

And I was like, God, I fancied you so hard then. Yeah. I'm getting placebo butterflies from your butterfly. I know it's like, you know, when you're such an empath. I know. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. The thing with butterflies is they're fucking great, you know, when you're such an empath, I know, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. The thing with butterflies is they're fucking great in year one, but they're difficult to main when you're six years in a fucking relationship. Right. So my advice to this

listener is both of you do something that's out of your routine. Both of you go somewhere X throwing, really into X throwing, even though I've never done it before. Do something that takes you so that you're reminded of that moment where you're both getting to know each other and like, whether you're going for a drink or a meal or you're doing an activity together, it kind of takes you back to that time where I'm trying to figure you out. I'm finding out who you are. A bit nostalgia, put some nostalgia into the relationship. But do something, you're not going to the same Italian restaurant. You're not doing

the same Nando's. You're both doing something that's completely new. Right, okay. So you can reliving some of that old memory where you're like, you're dating again. Yes. So do that is my advice. I think that women often feel like they are kissed rather than being the person kissing. And I think it's really good if you're a woman who's missing kissing, take control of the fucking kissing. Which I have done and missed in my relationship too, which is also very long term. And if I want to kiss my partner for longer than five seconds and I feel them pull away, I hold them down and I kiss him more. And I kiss consensual. Yeah, I mean, he's there. He started it. He's not moving and he's not saying no. So we're doing it.

And I think you can, you know, you're not, you don't spend your life being kissed. You also do some kissing. So like, if you start initiating that, I'm sure he will respond. She should be instigating. And also, I think, I completely agree with you. And I think before you get to the stage of like, why aren't we making out? It's all nonverbal stuff, right? Pin him down, hold him when he's like chopping some carrots.

Also not sexy to be like, hey, we don't kiss anymore. It's much more sexy to be like, I just put my tongue in your mouth, did you like that? Yeah. Bitch. And like grab him when he's chopping some carrots, but maybe when he's not chopping the carrots, he might chop his fingers and then just like make out on the kitchen counter. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did something with a day where I like, I pulled out my partner's shirt

and like kissed him on his chest and was like, I haven't kissed you there before. Yeah. But I'm building up to like a real sex weekend with him so I'm trying to like tease it until like... Oh but you're like intercepting the idea. Yeah yeah I remember that. Peppering here there. Remember when I kissed you here? Yeah. Well that's it then. Good luck. Good luck with the kissing. Hope you get snogs aplenty. That's all for now. Thank you so much for Sindhu for joining us. Really excited to see her special and thank you for now. Thank you so much for Sindhu for joining us. I'm really excited to see her special. And thank you for listening.

And if you have a burning dilemma, a quivering question or just some juicy thoughts for our shaggy aunties, slide into our inbox at browngirlsdoit2 at bbc.co.uk. Let's spill the masala chai together and help your life. Or you can send us a WhatsApp or voice note to 07968 100 822. Bye. What life advice would you like to give to your children? I'm Namulanta Kombo and that's the question I'm asking in the new series of my podcast, Dear Daughters Stars. Among my guests are actor Adjua Ando

from the hit Netflix series, Bridgerton. Find what you're built for. What's your unique gifting? Podcaster Audrey Akande from the Receipts Podcast. Don't let anyone dim your shine. Your voice matters. And nature presenter, Ray W Wynn-Grant. What have wild animals taught me about parenthood?

Almost everything. Dear Daughter stars from the BBC World Service. Listen now by searching for Dear Daughter, wherever you get your BBC podcasts.