Brown Girls Do It Too - Internet Theories with Shabaz Ali

Episode Date: November 22, 2024

What is Big Boy Energy? Poppy is about to find out and is joined by comedian and podcaster Shabaz Ali, aka Shabaz Says, to talk about internet theories about love and relationships, and their experiences with their communities. Have a message for Poppy? If you’re over 16, you can message the BGDIT team via WhatsApp for free on 07968100822. Or email us at [e-mail]. If you're in the UK, for more BBC podcasts listen on BBC Sounds: bbc.in/3UjecF5

L is for the way you look at me O is for the only one I see V is very, very Strong language and themes of an adult nature in this podcast I couldn't do it, I couldn't sing it Let's just stop now, let's just do the podcast Big boy energy in this podcast. I couldn't do it. I couldn't sing it. Let's just stop now. Let's just do the podcast. I'm Poppy J and you might have heard me

on the award-winning podcast Brown Girls Do It Too which I present with my better half Rubina Pabani. We speak about everything from our sex lives to female rage

and from Excel spreadsheets that our tax-dodging uncles would be proud of to the complicated relationships we have with our families. Rubina's just had a baby so is taking some well-earned time off to spend with her bubs, but before she left, she set me a little assignment. Since the beginning of time, women have been treated as the more mysterious sex, but can anyone really claim to understand the hearts, minds, and the dicks of men? So this is Big Boy Energy, a podcast where I'm on a mission to delve deep

into the recesses of what men want, what they really think, and find the answers we all want to know. Today, I'm joined by host of I'm Rich, Your Poor podcast and comedian who's embarking on his very own tour next year. It's Shabazz Ali, who goes by Shabazz Says. Yes, it's the guy who makes videos from his bed. Welcome. Thank you. Thanks for having me. I feel like I was expecting a woo, but your studio is very quiet. Oh, sorry.

There you go. So at the top of each episode, Rubina sends us a very short voice note to myself and the guest and she asks us a question and we have to answer okay here it is howdy there poppy my next question for you is will a man's second love feel the same as his first or is the first cut still the deepest what is that song the first cut is the deepest baby I know do you know what is the answer interesting do you think the first love theory applies to women more so than men okay because I feel like I've grown up around a lot of women okay right so I my stance on a lot of things really sent around like women empowerment and women's rights and stuff so whenever I do anything it's always like women first and I think what I find from my experience and this isn't a fact but from my experience I find that women look at relationships a lot more holistically than a man does yeah I think a man let's be honest right a man's looking at a

relationship like the sex or and maybe not men, I'm not saying all men, but a lot of men will look at the relationship as the sexual element or the attractiveness. So they won't look at it so deep in terms of love. Again, it sounds like I'm stereotyping, but I just don't think a guy would, has that many layers. I don't think a lot of men have a lot of layers to peel back and go, you know, how did that person make me feel?

I think they just think, was it good sex? Was look good did we have a good time I don't think a lot of men would unpack the deeper how did how did I feel do you think that question is different depending on the age and experience of the man so it may be in his 20s he's looking for a quick bang and or someone who looked good but maybe in their 30s 40s when they've lived a bit and they've got a bit more experience maybe it's reframed as the one that got away she was the one that I was too busy being a

you know not a twat I was too busy you know being a fuckboy or playing the field whatever and it's the one that got away

so maybe do you think age plays a part? I think as you get into your 30s and 40s when you've moved on with your life you've done what you need to do and you think about your missed opportunities that's the one yeah

because you do look back and reflect at the age of like 30, 35 or 40 you'll reflect back on stuff and that's probably when you'll think back to it

but then I do think a 25 year old girl would probably look back at like a relationship and be like oh do you know what that you know what I mean

whereas I don't think a boy would I would be inclined to agree with you actually not all girls myself included but that's probably because where I'm

in my life right now I just want to date and have fun and fun I'm basically living my life in reverse order so I was forced into a marriage

when I was 19 so I'm basically being 25 now and free effectively exactly it is reinforcing this stereotype again not true

for all women and hashtag not all men but the way that women love when they're 25 or 35 it's much more emotional I think when you

talk about love I think women are more inclined to really remember the love side of it do we just deep things a bit more I think so

but I don't think it's a bad thing I think that's just gender like we do tend to have there are differences in how we do and I think that's just gender like we do tend to have there are differences in how yeah we do and I think women the nurturing side and the like they say that statistically women will look at a man not in a sexual way the women the female gaze is a man for whether he's a

good dad or a good father like they're not all women but the female gaze is usually is he a strong figure does he you know rather than sexual attributes gaze is usually, is he a strong figure? Does he, you know, rather than sexual attributes, you'll be more, is he got, is he broader shoulders? Or, you know, is he going to be, even physical attributes, they all tend to steer towards,

would he be a good dad or would caregiver or good? Whereas men look up, a lot of men look at women as, Well, she'd give good head. sexual objects. Yeah. So that's the thing.

So I think that in that sense women are looking at relationship and looking at things that they've lost or loves or whatever

I don't think a man is looking at it that deeply until they get older whereas women I think it's in it it's just like they will do it

yeah and obviously we're not saying all women right because there's definitely women in their 20s who are just like couldn't care less and that's fine as well

couldn't care less literally on my fine as well couldn't care less literally on my dating my profile it says I'm an ethical fuck girl and I need to have a good time but I imagine there's a guy I went on a date with and he's got this

he calls it a tear system because he's like trying to avoid women between the ages of 28 and 33 because understandably every they want to settle down and every fucking date

is like a job interview where it's like who are you what's your name what do you wear where do you work income like income

can we get a mortgage somewhere in North London like it's just like there's this pressure and he's like so proud I'm saying this he's like

22 year old girls have no chat but suck dick like champs and then he's like me he's like you're a fucking unicornold girls have no chat, but suck dick like champs. And then he's like, me? He's like, you're a fucking unicorn because you want exactly the same things I want and you're a fucking hilarious thing to hang out with.

And you're older and mature, right? And I'm older and mature. But you're also a teenager. Yeah, and I'm also a teenager. He's like, it's very difficult to find women, I'm going to be 40 next year, who are older, who just want to be 22. Isn't that brown women, though?

Because of the pressure of like, you need to get married. You need to be 22. Isn't that brown women though? Because of the pressure of like, you need to get married. You need to be thinking. I think brown women feel it more, but I honestly genuinely, when I talk to my black female friends and white female friends, is like the pressure.

We probably get it more from the fucking aunties, like constantly. But the world pressurizes women, but I guess we get the aunties on top of it we get it internally from the community so like

yeah my god it's this whole thing and also I remember being 30 or coming up to 30 being like I've got to get a house I've got to

you know those rites of passage clocks ticking do I have a kid don't want a kid not ready for a kid still raving still seshing still getting fucked

you know like you feel all of this pressure that you put on yourself and then society puts on you and then your fucking family put on you as a brown woman

so it's relentless I feel like a lot of men these days are getting their sort of the shtick not as bad I can't pretend

I gotta you know check my privilege and I know that isn't as bad as like my female like friends and stuff but I do get the oh are you not thinking of settling down

no mum I just want to party like in Budapest I just yeah and Budapest is a great place to party that's literally what

I did this summer I went there I was partying and mum was like oh you're not going to settle down I was like absolutely not

love absolutely being free bird so yeah but I'm like maybe 40 yeah well this is it I mean you don't have the pressure right

of the biological clock ticking I think a lot of brown mums will just use that as their oh no but it's because you know it gets harder to have children

like somebody said the other day they were like saying it to my cousin who's 28 that all gets really hard when you get into your 30s I'm sorry she's 28

who's a man yeah no to a girl like oh it gets harder to have children she's 28 I think she'll be alright for the next 3-4 years right

or even the next 10 years she might be okay like not everybody but they use this sort of biological because bear in mind before it was like get married

because what are people going to say whereas now kids are like people I don't care so now the parents are like no

but scientifically you know what the science community say but science community also says don't marry your cousin but you don't have a problem there do you love you know what the science community says. Our Asian parents being out of science now. Yeah, but science community also says don't marry your cousin, but you don't have a problem there, do you love?

You know what I mean? You're constantly pushing your brother's daughter at me. Don't have a problem there, but biological clock's ticking now. Are you Pakistani? Yeah. Okay, yeah. You look, mum,

Pakistani community are notoriously bad for this. Do you know what it is? It's getting better now because I think, I guess education. I think it all boils down to education. I think, you know, I think they really thought

that, oh, keep it in the family because whatever land or property or like look after the person. But ultimately, what's happening now is people are getting divorced

and it's messing families up. But it's not just cousin marriages. Like, it's just not working out. People are just, people are, divorce rates are really high. People take less

shit from people. And that's what it is is the truth is that we are not taking as much shit from another person or surviving in a marriage because that's what our parents would do as they did yeah they tolerated and they they clawed their way through the marriage um whereas we're like one sign of abuse or one sign of anything, bye-bye, you're gone. So because that's then breaking families up, they're going, well, if it's outsiders, if it breaks up, it breaks up. Whereas if it happens inside the family,

I'm not talking to my sister forever again. You know what I mean? So we're wrapping up on our first internet theory. What are we saying? I think you remember your best love. I don't think it's first love. And I think universally that is with men and women they always remember their best love I agree with you

right are you ready for internet theory number two yep another voice note no no no no I thought Rubina's working overtime here isn't she two voice notes in one podcast my god she's doing more work than she does when she's here sorry Rubina I love you really so the internet theory number two

is the cab light theory have you heard of this no so the cab light theory states that men will only marry out of convenience it doesn't matter who they're with one day they'll wake up and be like i'm ready and then get with the first woman they see so like a like a cab driver who picks up the first customer they see when they like a cab driver who picks up the first customer they see when they turn the lights on. It was first mentioned in Sex and the City about 20 years ago, which obviously Sex and the City is like the Wikipedia for most women, geriatric millennials like me who grew up on that show. You should watch Sex and the City 2, the movie though. My God, horrendous.

Horrific. Like they were in Morocco. The cultural appropriation. They're in Morocco pretending it's Abu Dhabi. It god horrendous. Horrific. They were in Morocco. The cultural appropriation. They're in Morocco pretending it's Abu Dhabi it was horrendous, I watched it the other day and I was fuming sorry, slightly off track I would say oh I'd say it's true

I do think so. So my theory is this, I went to college with a girl called let's say Emily Brown and Emily Brown and I mean this in the nicest possible way, was plain looking and boring as fuck, but she was smart, okay? She got with the buffest guy in school, all right? She's got the buffest guy in school.

So my theory in life is that men, some men, not most men, straight men, they date people like me, but they end up with the Emily Browns. 100%. They end up with women who might not always challenge them, will take care of them, will have their claws in. So I think men end up with the Emily Browns of the world because they're just easier. It's easy. I went on a date with a guy

and he literally said to me, the surgeon, verbatim, he said, I just want to be with someone who's like my mother because men need to be taken care of. Men, but think about it. Everything,

this is my theory about everything, right? And it was about brown men and brown mothers and their relationship. But then I focused out and it is just men and mothers women consciously or subconsciously hear me out enable their husbands their sons because women yes the mother load the women load we just end up doing everything all the time right we talked about this with Dabaji right one of our guests on big boy energy and he and he agreed to

a degree like it serves the status quo of men and i'm not talking about just brown men i'm talking about men in society because it's called the one word i hate the p word patriarchy not the other one and so why do you want to fuck up the status quo and i've dated i basically mostly only date 24 year old men it's because mentally i'm 24 right because I never got to be 24 and they say the same thing to me they want to date the girls that are fun and quote unquote wild that's not who they're marrying

it's not who they're marrying no and they tell me this openly and I know this it's not like I'm listening to it like oh my god I'm shocked and surprised because they are going to go with

the Emily Browns let's do an Asian what's the Asian equivalent of an Emily Brown Bushra Bushra BB Bushra BB Emily Brown Bushra BBs that's BB. Emily Brown, Bushra BBs,

that's who they're ending up with. Very true. So this is my, so the cab light theory, I completely believe. That's very true because if you think about it, like I'm just talking from a brown perspective,

I know you said we go wider, but if you cast the net just closer to home. Yeah. Because a lot of men will go, we'll marry a girl from here. Why do they want to marry one from abroad? Because they think she's just going to be simple quiet

be the way their mum was whereas they're not realising that it ain't the case anymore you know what I mean like abroad so that's why they have this thing where I see it within my own like immediate family

not as in like my siblings but further out my cousins and stuff yeah they've all done that like they've all had the girlfriends or whatever and then who they ended up with Emily Brown you know for Pakistan they've literally or Bushabibi because. Is Bushabibi compliant though? Bushabibi's in back home are getting quite. Yeah but not as not as compliant as they thought that she was but they thought but then they're still happy with that because as long as they come home to

cooking and cleaning and all that and like she's still doing a motherly thing. She can have, she can question me a little bit about where I'm going or whatever. Where's UK born Bushra BBs? She's got mates. She's going out. Yeah. And Bushra is not, you,

if you're not home by this time, I'm locking the doors, mate, get home, get in. Otherwise stay outside. And they're not taking this at the same level of, and that's why if I look at my brother,

my two siblings, the older brother's married to someone from back home the younger one's married to someone he like his girlfriend who was his girlfriend his wife he's on like he's on a tight leash like but then so is the older one the older one that's got a tight leash as well because he's what he I think in his mind no disrespect to him I really think in his mind he thought he and I think my mom as well I'm gonna hold her accountable because I do think my mom mind he thought and I think my mum as well I'm going to hold her accountable because I do think my mum thought

you know what I mean like oh you get married from Pakistan she'll be at least a little bit like homely obedient a little bit obedient whereas my sister-in-law

is like you and your mum no she didn't say that but like she is very like feisty she'll say to him what do you mean you're going out no you're not

sit the fuck down you ain't going out from a project so it's because and I and I think I and I think I appreciate that but the vast majority unfortunately are still especially village girls yes they're modern and everything but they are trained systematically trained to be compliant and to be obedient and to be quiet and not fight for their right yeah which is frustrating because when I see it it bothers me because I'm like why do you like parents still think that that's okay like oh get married to he's really uh you know he goes out and he parties and he drinks or whatever let's get married to someone from back home or get married to some obedient girl and then she'll

sort him out and no she's not she's just picking up the pieces from stuff that you've abandoned because you've gone yeah you've got rid of your burden and gone, let's put it on someone else. And then effectively ruined her life as well. You've really touched something because I really get so sad about the generation of aunties and women who come to this country. And I think about my aunts, like, you know, and I think about my cousins who are a bit older than me, who've had to marry these guys or actually men who've brought women back here. And it's like these lie and are dealing with the mess that the parents didn't. Created or didn't solve.

They just went or didn't help with. And it's just like and now it's her problem. And then you've got this whole thing, by the way, of this epidemic of Asian men who bring home a Bushra Bibi. So go back home and bring a Bushra Bibi. Meanwhile, they're banging an Emily, a fiery Emily Brown. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen households where they've gone and take their son back to get married, like just on the street or whatever. A couple of doors down, she's taking her son, who we all knew was going around with all the girls and doing whatever, doing drugs or whatever.

It's basically being a slag. Yeah, and which, fine, that's what you want to do. Yeah, if you want to do it, there's nothing wrong with being a slag. But he's then gone abroad, married someone, come back to the country. She brought her here, but she isn't the simple woman that she wanted. But the auntie is now saying to her daughter-in-law, but no, you need to. Because women need to compromise. Because in her mind she did so she thinks that that's the norm because that's her intention of getting a son married to some simpleton from abroad or because I did the time now you have to

yeah and I've done it it's a rite of passage so everyone but this is what I'm saying to you is that it's the women that the aunties are the problem because you're enabling your son and you're still passing that mentality on to your daughter-in-laws who will then pass that on to their kids. So it's never going to end. So we assume that once the older generation dies, brilliant, that mentality goes with them. No, it's happening in our generation. They're passing it on. They're passing that mentality of like, suffer and I suffered and you should suffer as well.

We did a live version of Brown Girls Do It Too, me and Rubina, and I met absolutely incredible brown women who were like, I had to marry my cousin or I was forced into a marriage or I was in a shitty marriage,

I'm divorced and now I don't want my daughter to go through the same things that I did so she can do whatever the fuck she wants. But I felt,

even as I was talking to those women, I felt that they were in the minority. I felt there were so few of them because I think there were more women who were like, I felt that they were in the minority. I felt there were so few of them because I think there were more women

who are like, I fucking did the time. Now you have to. And I, like with all due respect to my mum, love her to bits, but I genuinely had to have that battle with her. So people ask me like,

where did you get this mentality from? It wasn't instilled in me. Like my mum would kill me if she ever hears this. Not that she will, but if she ever hears this, she'll say, what,

was I not a good mum? Did I bring you up right? No, that's not what I'm saying, love. But the mentality I got from watching you put up with grief from your husband's sisters and your husband and all these things that you didn't have to put up with. So I'm saying to you, you don't expect that from my sister-in-law, which is why she doesn't expect that from my sister-in-law

because I've instilled it into her, but it doesn't come that way. A lot of sons are passive. They don't care. Absolutely not. They're passive. So they're like, mum, do what you need to do. It serves them.

Why do they need you? Why are you going to rock the boat when the boat is fine sailing along? Whereas I'm not married. So for me, I'm like, I'm watching it from an outside perspective. So I'm saying to my mum, you went through it.

You cannot have that expectation. There's been moments where, you know, she's spoken to my sister-in-law about something that's happened and I've gone I'm gonna stop you there because you went through that but you can't have that expectation from her I wouldn't say this to my sister-in-law but I have had this conversation I've gone you cannot have the same expectation because you went through it that that's what the norm is because you are an anomaly you put up with it women don't put up with that stuff anymore you are the odd one now your generation is the odd one that mentality is the odd one so I think what I've come to learn actually having spoken to you people like you

people like Waji people like Asim that things are maybe changing because I think for so long like I talk about it from my own perspective my brown cousins absolutely were not calling their mothers out. To be fed, to have their clothes washed and folded, to be infantilised is something that they loved and their mothers perpetuated it. They loved it. It continued. But I think what I'm discovering,

and perhaps it was me being so pessimistic, is that you guys, people like you, are calling out your mothers, which it takes a lot, you know, because it's a status quo serves you. So it takes a lot to be like, I want to fuck shit up. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah. And the thing is, what I find, it's a tough battle because it's very ingrained in who they are. Absolutely. So it's not an easy battle. And I think with all due respect to a lot of people, a lot of them will say they do it.

I'm saying not any of you guess of what we have, but a lot of people will say, yeah, yeah, I do. We'll say, you know, for their wives, if the wife's like, your mum's constantly doing X, Y and Z, and they're like, well, I've spoken to her. But have you really? It's not about speaking to her. It's about changing.

And action. Are you actually doing it? That's it. And it's changing the mentality, I think. But I do see a shift. I don't see a big enough shift. I think I don't see a big enough shift where we can be like, oh my God, it's amazing. If I was to post this out there, I will find a barrage of DMs from men saying, no, that's

not right. You're wrong. You're wrong. Like what you're saying is incorrect. When what I'm saying to you is how difficult is it to say to your mom, that's not right you're wrong you're you're wrong like you're what you're saying is incorrect when what I'm saying to you is how difficult is it to say to your mom that's not acceptable it's not acceptable but again you can't like you said because then it affects you I'm not in that position so it's all good from a privilege turn around and go it's like having money and telling people don't worry about money yeah yeah because it doesn't serve me and I haven't got a wife who's being um mothering me whereas if you already have that strong foundation you ain't rocking that foundation

when it's there for you color clothes ironed and cook food yeah exactly but I but I want to say to you that you are the essence of big boy energy to me the fact that you call out your mum when it does not serve you in any way yeah the fact that you hold her to account a bit and i sometimes something in me feels also a bit sad that we're still bringing women in but the reality is nunnies and daddies and mothers are and aunties they are enabling these sons but the sons are also oh i did talk to her and it's but you need to show it with action not words right so we growing up I do we this this argument's been had since probably since I've been a kid right I've had the same argument I used to fight at my household we were told to just shut up and put up right with

anything from anyone right my mum was like listen you don't you don't answer back you don't say anything as I grew older I sorry, on Eid day, you sit down and you wait until the women have eaten as well. We're eating together. When I grew up and I was allowed to say it, prior to that, I had to put up with the fact that all the men were eating first and the women were just sitting in the kitchen, wait till the men were finished.

And then the men just waltzed off and gone and took their cars out and did what they want after they turned up. It didn't help out with the dishes. In my household, that didn't work. I turned around and said fully, that's unacceptable. And my uncles and my parents were shocked. And I had so much abuse from my parents because they were like, you're disrespectful, you're rude. And I said, no, it's unacceptable that you think that you should eat first. And then we eat

together, we sit together, pick your plates up and put them in the kitchen. You have hands, pick them up, put them in the kitchen. I say it to my dad. And my mom thinks it's disrespectful for me to say to my dad, pick your plate up and put it in the kitchen. I say it to my dad and my mom thinks it's disrespectful for me to say to my dad, pick your plate up and put it in the kitchen. Like it's not that difficult. My mom's better. My mom's a lot better, but I think that's just me. I genuinely think she has to own up to the fact

that I really did not put up with it and I wouldn't tolerate it through so many arguments. It has been a tough uphill battle, but I'm like, I'm not tolerating it in my household, especially now that there's more women than there are men because we had three boys in it and now we've got

two sister-in-laws a niece my mum so like the boys are dwindling the women are growing like the the oestrogen is

out stripping the testosterone for sure so in your house now do you all eat together yeah absolutely that is a huge win that's incredible

I instill that value I instill that value in my school kids I know it's not my incredible I instill that value in I instill that value in my school kids I know it's not my place to instill that value but I will instill it in some way or another to the kids I teach in the classroom as well like I'm teaching you science but here learn something about women is it predominantly Asian kids that you're teaching I used to teach a lot of Asian kids and it was a tough it was hard because they didn't have a lot of respect for women Asian kids didn't did not all of them. But what I saw was especially... Secondary school.

Yeah, I teach like year seven to year 11. And the thing was, was my white friends, my white teachers all said it, that the boys never had respect for women. The reason why is because they watched their mums be spoken to like a piece of shit. They watched their sisters be spoken to like a piece of shit. So when they come into school,

do you really think I have any respect for this white teacher? No, I don't. Why? Because all I've had is, I've been told that women need to stay in. The eldest sister in the household of some of these kids will still be a lower rung.

You know, like the eldest is always responsible. Not in some households. So it still exists. It still exists. I've seen it firsthand where they come in, they treat me so respectfully and so nicely. The Asian boys, and then when they're speaking to an Asian, even an Asian female teacher is even worse,

but a white female teacher, they don't have any respect for them. They don't want to listen to you. Wow. And people think, oh no, the world's changing. Believe me. So this is much deeper and more fucked up than I thought. Oh, absolutely. I've seen it trick, and I, at first I thought, oh, the teacher's just been racist.

You know what I mean? Like they're saying Asian kids hate women. But I saw it when I saw the difference in my classroom where everything was pristine and not one kid threw a paper. And yes, it might be down to my behaviour management, but also another really qualified, good teacher, an excellent teacher who's having boys not listen to her not respect their their boundaries or not respect anything and you look at their household dynamic and I've studied it in the sense that I've picked out what their households look like when I've seen them in parents evening or whatever and I've seen the very simple auntie G that's come and her husband does all the talking and the woman does not allow to and I've seen the way the kid behaves

and I've gone well there's a correlation and there's a have you after I've got a sister yes I've got a sister cool what's her lifestyle like compared to yours well we all know

what her lifestyle's like she's not allowed at the house she's not allowed to do this the mum's not allowed to speak unless spoken to

so that means that you're going to have are you going to have any respect for any of the women in this building when you're in your own backyard

yeah so sorry it's gone way off topic we turned into a complete different podcast but this is actually so depressing and bleak I was going out with this white guy I don't know a couple of dates with him and he basically said something that was completely true but because it came out of his mouth and he's white I called him a racist and he said the patriarchy and the misogyny in Asian communities, it's so much more apparent than in any other community. And at the time I was like, fuck off. I mean, I knew he was speaking the truth, but I was like, shut the fuck up. I don't want to hear it from your mouth.

I don't want to hear it from your mouth. But like, it got me thinking. It absolutely is. But then it's so difficult to say it out loud on platforms like this, because then what you're doing, you feel like you're giving the white people a reason and the Daily Mail readers a reason to be like, you see, look at those Asian people. They don't like women.

Look at those. They don't like women. Look at them. They're all fucking blah, blah, blah. I don't know why I went and did your accent there. But so it's like you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. And also people don't want to see the mirror being shown to them. So anytime, this is why I don't touch on culture on my, if you think about my podcast, my social media presence, it's not why I don't touch on culture if you think about

my podcast my social media presence it's not it doesn't touch on culture I'm very ambiguous with what race I'm from or what thing I mean it's obvious

I'm like Pakistani I'll say Punjabi words in my you know things but it's very I don't touch on culture or race because people feel

so passionately about it because they don't want to be told that you are wrong my mum didn't want to be told that her mentality was wrong my aunties don't want to be told my uncles don't want to be told that you are wrong. My mum didn't want to be told that her mentality was wrong. My aunties don't want to be told. My uncles don't want to be told.

My cousins, friends, whatever, do not want to be told that you, misogyny exists because they want to paint this rosy picture that everything's fine. But that's the classic Asian way, isn't it?

In Bengali, you say, which is what will people say? Yeah. So you present this kind of perfect image to the rest of the community, but behind closed doors, all sorts are going on but this is why I've got such a chip on my shoulder about dating brown guys because

when I was growing up I wasn't allowed to go out I wasn't allowed to do anything and my cousins could do everything they had literally food served to them on the at the table they didn't even fucking take their plates to the kitchen they didn't wash anything they didn't hoover they didn't cook they didn't. And I've got this, I'm just kind of angry towards brown guys, but actually having people like you on the show, it's reminding me that it's not all brown guys. And actually there are some brown guys that are our allies.

I just wish there was more. So do I, mate. So do I. Because I feel like sometimes I'm literally backed up. Three is not enough. You, Asim and Wajid is not enough. We need a fucking army of you lot. I'm backed in a corner sometimes

having this argument into an empty void of like people going, people not listening. Literally feels like I'm shouting into a black hole of like an abyss because there isn't, they really think, oh, you're just a feminist.

You just back women and you're just, you're just this, you're too Western in your thinking. That's what my mum has said. My mum, aunties have said to me, do you know what it is? You're just, you're just this, you're too Western in your thinking. That's what my mum has said. My mum, aunties have said to me, do you know what it is?

You're just Gora, you've got Gora mentality. No, I've got the right mentality. Why do they do that? I don't know. I think it's because it's easy just then

to accept that it's wrong, isn't it? Accept that. It's always bothered me, but then people always go, why does it bother you? Like, you're a guy.

Why? What is it? What do you want to be a woman? Is that what it is? Like, is that why you're bothered genuinely I've heard people say to me like why are you bothered that the boys aren't picking their plates up the women have zero issue with it there are 14 women in this room and none of them have bat an eyelid the one man in the corner is shouting and screaming from the top of his lungs pick your plates up boys it doesn't make any sense is it you're I can't. You're fighting and losing battles. You just stand there and you're like, well, actually, what am I doing? So we have really dived deep into a brown hole, haven't we?

The whole of brown mothers and their relationship with their sons. And it has really been fascinating unpicking all of this. So I think it's really important to talk about our culture in warts and all. And also you as a fellow brown person talking to me and having a very candid and honest conversation about all the fucking fucked up shit and the things that are wrong with our culture. Absolutely. And, you know, we started off talking about Internet theories and it was about, you know, first loves and not forgetting first loves.

We said the best love. But I think actually what you've done is, you know, you've called out your mother the woman in your life we could argue you love the most and you've called her out and you've made her feel uncomfortable and you've basically and and you've done this in a way that I think is so admirable like you're turning that mirror back on herself and really challenging her own behavior like it isn't just about you know it's like it's about challenging your first love as well or the people that you love in your life yeah absolutely i think it started off like talking about like you said first loves but we moved to a deeper conversation it was about we went from

first love then we said it was better love the best love and then the it was cab light theory to emily brown to bushra bb's to our mothers but it does link all these links with that like that cab theory I think the point that we were making links to the cab theory because where does this

in this you wanting the simple you know the first cab comes from what the conversation we've had

it's what your mothers teach you it's what society teach you and men fathers as well it it suits them. They're not going to challenge the status quo. You're not going to tell your son that.

Speak up against that. Speak up against your mother. Like, your mother's enabling you, son. Speak up against her. Because it doesn't serve him. Listen, your mum is saying, yeah, like, your mum is putting the food on the table for me and I don't have to pick it up.

Why don't you go and question your mum about it? Or me about it? Like, which dad is saying that? Like, I'm getting my clothes ironed and everything and my wife's passive and anything why don't you son

rock the boat and tell her not to you know what I mean I'll sit there and iron my own clothes why don't you do that it's not happening is it it's really not happening

but I think that's why we have guests like you on Big Boy Energy because I think it's really important to have

those conversations and I think it's really important to have those conversations. And I think what's been both slightly depressing, but also hopeful is that things are changing. They're changing very fucking slowly, but things are changing because we're getting people like you who are, you know, I think that for me, it feels like a really big win was having,

when you said you had your family around on Eid day, that you'd all eat together. Yeah, we don't eat separately at all ever, if Eid ever happens. But there are certain things like we just don't do anymore. And people don't argue with me because I'm the gobshite. So they're like, we're either going to have, when I was a kid, I was told to shut up. Once I found my voice, I'm like, listen, all I need to do is make a TikTok video about you and then you'll be done. So don't start with me, right? All I need to do is go a TikTok video about you and then you'll be done so don't start with me right all I need to go on there

and I even say your name in the TikTok videos well auntie I think big boy energy should be that big boy energy isn't the big boy energy should be

calling out you know inequality that's what big boy energy is but that is it isn't it it's like it's calling that bullshit out

but change in our community as we know dinosaurs have fossilised sooner out but change in our community as we know dinosaurs have fossilised sooner than the change in our fucking Asian community Jesus Christ

it'll happen it'll happen I think more people just need to have that conversation and be brave enough big boy energy be brave enough

to have that conversation and then things people will get it and if they don't get it

make them get it or just make a TikTok video about it and call them out and shame them and their whole family absolutely do it it has been an absolute pleasure having you make them get it or just make a TikTok video about it and call them out and shame them and their whole family absolutely do it

it has been an absolute pleasure having you on this podcast no thank you for having me appreciate it I feel like you've left me hopeful a tad

I hope so I do hope so about the future yeah I do have hope for the future I think we I think maybe in five generations

things will change 10, 20 I hope the next one I think Gen Z next one we ain't ready for next one I don't know I think Gen in five generations, things will change. 10, 20. I hope the next one. I think Gen Z. Next one. We ain't ready for next one. I don't know. I think Gen Z are on it.

I think Gen Z are on it. I do think Alpha have it in the bag, but I think Gen Z are pushing the wave. So I'm hoping, I'm hoping. I'm hoping, I'm hoping with you. I'm hoping when I have kids that they grow up in a world where there isn't that inequality and the boys do what the girls do and the girls do what the boys do.

It doesn't make a difference. You're not defined by your gender. I'm hopeful, but I really think that will be in 20 generations time. Well, let's come back in, what is it, Big Boy Energy season 55. All stars. And then we'll have a chat then and see if it's changed. Fine. Well, it was brilliant

having you on the podcast thank you so much for coming should we all have an actual applause Shabazz thank you so much thank you for listening if you have any thoughts

opinions or you want to share what big boy energy means to you then you can whatsapp me on 07968 100 822. Iconic boy. Bye.