Brown Girls Do It Too - Keeping it Fluid with Bishi

Episode Date: March 21, 2025

Poppy and Rubina are joined by artist and composer Bishi to talk fluidity and what it actually means. They also delve into conversation about how the use of words like 'queer' and 'sexuality' have changed over the years and how they see themselves now.Have a message for Poppy and Rubina? If you’re over 16, you can message the BGDIT team via WhatsApp for free on 07968100822. Or email us at [e-mail] you're in the UK, for more BBC podcasts listen on BBC Sounds: bbc.in/3UjecF5

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Hi, Kalki Kecklar here, actor, activist and host of the My Indian Life podcast. I'm joining Namalanta Kombo on the new series of her podcast, Dear Daughter, Stars, from the BBC World Service. We're exploring motherhood, beauty standards, and the life lessons we want to pass on to our daughters. Listen to our conversation now by searching for Dear Daughter wherever you get your BBC podcast. BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. Today I'm feeling 85% straight and 15% hot for women.

That's a fluid ratio of 17-3. Well I'm 87 fluid ounces of straight and 13 fluid ounces of sapiosexual. Oh I love that. I'm sapiosexual too. Love a good head. Before we get into that, this podcast will contain strong language and adult content. When was the last time you had sex? Because when brown girls get down, the world tends to have a little something to say. And we've got something to say right back. This is a podcast about sex.

Why we can't stop thinking about it, talking about it, and doing it. And doing it. Brown girls do it too. I'm Rebina, and if I was a fluid, I'd be the white stuff that comes out of a Tipex pen. Clean and shiny when it comes out but quickly browns with a smudge. I'm Poppy and if I was a fluid I'd be honey. Sticky, sweet and messy. Viscous. Yes. Well, is honey a fluid actually?

Syrup. Syrup. Do you eat soup or do you drink soup? Do you eat honey or do you drink honey? Do you eat honey or do you drink honey? I put it in my coffee. Slurp honey, do you? I'm actually obsessed with honey so I'm really glad that you said honey. I'm really glad that you wrote this line for me.

Joining us for this conversation is the talented, the incredible, Scythian queer icon, Bishy. Welcome to our lair. Bishy bitchy Bishy. Bishy bitchy. Bishy Bishy. Hello. Has anyone called you Bish. Dishy bitchy, bishy. Dishy bitchy. Dishy bishy. Hello. Has anyone called you dishy bishy?

They have, yes. Oh my God, you thought you were being original. I know, I thought it was flirting. But I think it's better coming out of your mouth, Poppy. I mean, the peanuts. You're a brown person, that got us confused. I know, I'm so terrible. It's okay when brown people do it.

Yeah, I don't mind. But when normal browns- I sometimes they correct them, I'm like, yeah, I'm so terrible. It's okay with brown people do it. Yeah, I don't mind. But when I sometimes they correct them. I'm like, yeah, I'm Poppy. I'm like, she's a bitch. No, you know what? It's because I'm nervous because I'm a fan of the podcast. Oh, don't be. Yeah.

I'm also just like a huge fan of this podcast. I think it's groundbreaking. And your lovely assistant producer, Hops, actually mentioned that out of all of the broadcasting platforms, out of all the big channel conglomerates, there's only one podcast where brand girls get to be dirty and hilarious and joyful. And it just like we were such a huge force, we've contributed so much to the fabric of this country. And yet there's only one podcast that really centers our voice.

But also, you know, you are this kind of like the only person I know in kind of the experimental music scene who's done so well and like kind of doing this very specific cool thing that nobody does. Like you're kind of genre bending and yeah I mean you've been in it for longer than us. I've been in it for a very long time. I mean I came up on the queer scene, I started DJing professionally when I was 17. Still when the Section 28 law was still upheld you know that I think that came that came undone in 2002, 2003.

So for our readers what is the Section 28 law? Oh my god, historically, I didn't. So just conversationally. Yeah. So the Section 28 law came into effect during the Thatcher government to prevent the promotion of homosexuality. And so what it did is it affected things like youth groups, it meant that teachers couldn't actively teach queer writers. It really affected lots of local services and lots of youth groups up and down the country for like vulnerable queer and gay and lesbian and trans teenagers.

And it just contributed to a real culture of open homophobia. And so if there was a gay teenager or a queer teen being bullied in the playground, it meant that a teacher couldn't actually step in. Really? And yeah, that was really amazing people like Serene McKellen and Stephen Fry and Boy George. And people really protested against it. And yeah, you know, like being gay was this massive slur. It's still a massive slur, but it was, yeah, there was nothing to really support people like I guess of my generation to sort of ring fence it. And so that's why music and art and nightclubs and

performance art was the haven where I got to really spread my wings, I got to really express myself. And then, yeah, I had a whole pop star phase in, huge record labels. And the idea really, it always came down to the fact that there's no audience for South Asian women. There's just no audience. Nobody cares. No one's interested. Or the other idea was to hypersexualize me. So I was shown videos in record label offices of certain Bollywood actresses kind of writhing around in bikinis on cars, which is fine, but it's just so unimaginative in terms of sexuality. It's, it's just centers on the male gaze in a really conformist way. And so because it was the early bit of social media, you know, I was always told by labels and music industry people, you know, you just

got too many opinions, too many clothes, you do too many things. And actually, like, you know, social media and the internet was the way I was being able to grow. And all of those things have come to serve me. So finding your niche, finding your audience. Yeah, just being who you need to be and creating the art that you need to create. And did you grow up like knowing yourself enough to say, yeah, I'm queer, like early on? Or when, when did that kind of happen for you? Yeah, well, I knew really early on. But obviously, I think a lot of us come from backgrounds

where there's a lot of shame that's projected onto our sexuality. And it just sets up a lot of problems. So whilst I never felt shame within myself, it's like, I think a lot of us can't really express ourselves. We can't really say where we're at. I also think that just having an environment where you don't talk about things like consent or sexual health, or there's no openness or arena to have these discussions is actually just really dangerous for people. And like, I understand culturally speaking, why it is how it is, but I just, I think it causes a lot of problems. Yeah, I agree. I love the word queer. And I did actually say on the recent census that

I was queer because it was an option. Oh, right, Ruby. Yeah, I was like, come on, I want to because I have this vision in the future that we'll all just be like queer, like, because queer is just such a fun umbrella term for fluid sexuality that doesn't mean that you like the boxes but you can all just kind of stick together still. I love the word queer. It's interesting I was having this conversation with someone quite recently and I saw this documentary and it was like an older gay man in his 50s and a younger Gen Z gay guy. And he was saying he doesn't like the word queer because that word was used against him

and it was homophobic slur when he was coming up. But of course, like Gen Z and even geriatric millennials, queer is an umbrella term for people who are fluid or people who, you could be gay, lesbian, it's much more of a broad term. But when I was watching this documentary, this guy who was from an older, from another time, from another time, I'm making him sound ancient,

he just didn't like that word. So words take on different meanings, they have different, like I remember talking to someone, an older woman in her 40s, and I just, I use the word bitch endearingly, bitch, hey bitch, or bitch, I've toned it down now and I say bish. Bish. There we go.

And she didn't like it. She didn't like the word because it was used to bully her when she was in school. So I think, I mean, we're moving on slightly, but words have different meanings and the etymology of a word changes. But I want to bring it back to fluidity. Yeah, it's a great word. What does being fluid mean to you? I think fluidity for me is about freedom and it's about freedom of expression.

And people's sexuality changes over the course of their lives. Certain people, they're heterosexual when they're younger and then they just meet someone or they meet the right person or within our sexual identities, it's subject to so much change you know the way that we have sex the kinds of things that we're into shift throughout the course of our lives and also it's about honoring masculine and feminine energies within yourself and of course all of this stuff, it's just exploded out into

the non-binary universe, which I love. I find that through a lot of identity politics, you know, people have become obsessed with labels to the point of it just feeling really suffocating. And it's taken on its own form of totalitarianism. Yes, definitely. But for me, it's about honoring that landscape of freedom within all of us to be who we need to be. And I think that a lot of freedoms have been fought in the past for us to get here. I mean, even within my lifetime, what you're saying about the word queer, I have seen that word be reclaimed over the past 10, 15 years. And so I can understand why it's so offensive to, you know, people

in their 50s, people who survived the AIDS crisis. You know, yeah, fluidity for me is about personal freedom. I love that. I love that definition, because I so agree with you about this label, the labels that you get on the internet. It can be quite suffocating. And then I, as a geriatric millennial, I mean, and Rubina's said this to me a few times and she's right. I'm basically a white man, van driver stuck in this brown person's body. I'm like landmine. That was the word. Like what landmines am I stepping on? Do you know what I mean? What am I saying? Who am I accidentally

offending? And so I think you've given a really simple description of fluidity and what it actually means. And I was just thinking about like my mom and all those aunties. I'm often thinking about all those aunties right now. And I'm just in my loving the aunties era. And a lot of them who are probably fluid,

who liked women or who liked, or uncles who liked men, but they couldn't and they had to hide all of that. And the fact that every day we're on a sliding scale. I mean, some days I wake up and I'm like, women are just, I fancy them. Where are they? They're everywhere. And I'm like a dog on heat.

And most of the time I am straight, but the fact that I can exist as me and be on this sliding scale and that there isn't this set rule that we're not in a box, that you don't have to be one or the other. Yeah. That you are in a kind of position. But the irony is fluid is also another box. Fluid is also another term, right? But it's kind of this wonderful term that has a bit more like kind of layers to it and meaning and it feels like you could take it into different places. I think I early on in dating, if someone told me they were fluid, I personally, I think I'd be a bit like, Oh God, so I don't know where I stand with you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's completely fair enough. I don't even bring it up. I mean,

this is the first time I'm talking about this stuff, which is really liberating and really amazing. And I think I'm in the best place to talk about it. I just don't even mention it. I think about the artists that I love. I love David Bowie and I love Grace Jones and I love Bjork. When I started buying records in the mid-90s, people like Jarvis Cocker or Shirley Manson or even those Blur Boys, everybody was that whole mid-90s Brit pop indie dance thing. It was all very androgynous. So I'm coming out of that seed of androgyny. Like when I first started playing in bands, there was this glam rock movie called Velvet Goldmine and Soho in Camden was just full of boys and girls with glitter eye makeup and like, you

know, big feather boas and I'd sit and watch late night Channel 4, I'd watch Euro Trash and watch the word. Yeah, yeah, just like all this amazing TV, there just seemed to be so much freedom with that expression. And some people continue that into their 50s, 60s and 70s and for some people they kind of peter down into something else and it's all good, you know. So yeah. I definitely always was attracted to boys who wore eyeliner at school. I loved a guy in eyeliner that was like the hottest thing ever.

Guy liner. Guy liner. And I love androgyny. I think like when I, all the guys I've ever fancied are not like these mask alpha male guys. They're like, they've got lots of depth. There's loads of stuff going on with them. Maybe they've got like a feminine cheek or a smile or something about them that's like kind of put together in a different way. I love that blurring of mask and femme. That's where all the interesting stuff happens. Oh my God. I was a total, I was an eight year old homophobe, definitely. I've come from such a traditional Bangladeshi community.

If I saw, growing up, and certainly in my early teens, and also the school I went to, it was probably like road man school. If I saw a guy, there was a guy in year 11, he had green, this is, I'm talking 97, right? Right. He had green nail polish on it, blew my mind. I was like, he's obviously gay.

Yeah. I didn't even know, I don't know if I knew actually what gay and straight was when I was 11, but like the fact that he had, the fact that he had green nail polish and no one bullied him was amazing. That was my first foray into like not acting your gender. Does that make sense? And I'm going back to the basics because like for, I think for a lot of people,

even for myself, it is the basics because and then you're brown as well. You are gendered constantly. You are constantly reminded you have a vagina and you will have a child and you will get married and you will drive a Mercedes. But there is still a lot of judgement around that. Like I think I have British Asian friends in this country now who are my age who if they saw a man wearing nail varnish wouldn't say it. They think it. They think oh what's going on.

Oh my god my backwood cousins if they saw like some guy with guy liner on, and be like, oh, he's gay, like, and that was a derogatory term. That was a derogatory term that we used when we were in school. But they're all basic bitches, right? But like, they're not listening to it. And they might not be, they've had growth.

They've had growth. But what I'm saying is, especially like from, like my male cousins, like backwards base level, if they saw another Asian guy express himself, and he could be straight, but just femme presenting that morning, they would absolutely lambast him. But it went through like a phase of Asian guys where they were allowed to be metrosexual suddenly. Yeah. David Beckham helped.

Yeah, good. Good for David Beckham. Yeah. I mean, I also think like just going back to what you're saying about like, South Asian women being sexualized. I mean, yeah, the, you know, I mean, on the one hand, all the slurs were like, you know, you're gay, you're a lesbian, like, or they offer me it was like, it has man hands, it has a man's jaw. There was always this idea of calling me trans as a pejorative. And then on the other hand, kind of walking home after school in my school uniform,

just being hyper-sexualized, mostly by men of my own color, but also just white guys following you in your car. It's just the harassment has been non-stop throughout my life. But it's just one of the nice things about aging is you're like, well, I don't care. Also, yeah, it's also like, you know, you're saying I'm gay, you're saying I'm lesbian, you're saying I'm trans, like fucking correct. Do you know what I mean? Correct. All of those insults that you have filled my life with, actually it's true. I really hard relate to the people insulting me because they think I'm a man. I hard relate

to that. I really remember a friend uploaded a picture of me and her on Facebook while I went to go visit her at uni. That was so old school. And one of her mates from like Leeds university messaged underneath, he was like, I didn't know, I didn't know who that was with you. Was that some guy? And it's like, I was like, oh my God, it was like the first time someone had like outwardly said, you are not the gender that you think you define yourself as. And it was the first time I was like, wow, is that, is that cool? Is that powerful? Does that something I should like utilize? And I sent like, wow, is that cool? Is that powerful? Is that something I should utilize? And I sent a picture to Poppy the other day where I was like walking my kid and I took

a picture that was quite high and I've got a really strong jawline. I've got a very big face. I've got a very defined face and I look like my dad. Okay, I look exactly like my dad. So I was like, I was walking down the street and I took a selfie, which I never do and I never upload selfies and I sent it to Poppy and then I was like, oh my God, I look so manly, inadvertently. And then she was like, No, you don't. And I was like, I wasn't using that as like a neg. I think I sometimes do look quite masculine

and that energy is like, I think that's fun. That's like the androgyny part. Exactly. You can be something one day super femme and then you can be a bit more mask the next. I love it. I think we are now at a time where that's okay and it's allowed to happen, right? Let's be real. If someone said to me, when I was in uni, if someone said to me, you look like a man, I'm going to be honest, I would have been upset by that because I've seen it as a cuss or an insult. Let me tell you a story. So I went to Mabeen who was on Big Boy. We love Mabeen. Oh my God, we were at the New Year's party. That New Year's party, let me tell you a story.

The same one that you and I went to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw you. So I left and then obviously the next day, I left around quite early, like one-ish or whatever, and then the next day, Mabeen and I were like doing debriefs about the night, how was your night, how was your night? And he's like, thank you for inviting me.

And he's like, oh my God, Poppy, everyone loves you. So he had quite a few trans women at the party. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they were saying to Mabeen, oh my God, Poppy, everyone loves you. So he had quite a few trans women at the party. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they were saying to Mabeen, Oh my God, Poppy, where did she get her facial feminization surgery from? Oh my God. So they all thought I was a trans woman who had had surgery. And they said, they said your facial, they said their first, her facial feminization surgery was amazing. Where did she get it? So realistic.

And I literally have died. I've told about 15 people the story. If you told me that, yeah, honestly, yeah, honestly, 10 years ago, I'd have been upset, but I was just like literally telling the guys in a situation ship, telling my mates, doing school grabs, doing like telling everyone in this podcast. And I just, there was this absolute freedom of being like, I feel totally okay and actually happy. And this is, it's a funny story that these people think I was born as a man because I too have a really strong draw line. And when I wear a mustache for fun and a hat, I went to a kebab shop. This is before all the trans conversation and trans discourse. I went to a kebab shop when I convinced a

man that I was transitioning into a woman and he gave me a free kebab because he believed me. I can go either way. Yeah, I can see that for you. Yeah, I can see that. Listen, I've had it as slurs, you know, you look like a man, you know, you secretly got a dick, you know, you're a lesbian, constantly. And, you know, it's been in my late thirties and I'm like, yeah, I know, right? Yes. You know, but that's, it's not, it's to do with my state of mind, but it's also been to do with the work that all of us actually, all the community, like the, you know, online discourse, social media has had a huge part to play, all of the work of the different generations to just get to the point where you're like, fuck you. Yeah, I did get great facial feminization surgery, actually. This is my surgeon. You know what I mean?

And it's like, you take the cuss and you turn it around, then they've got nothing to cuss you with. Exactly. Sometimes, because we can be in our bubble, look, we're all in the media industry, you're a musician, like, you look at who the people you follow and it's like, oh yeah, we've, not we've made it, what's that word? We've we're so progressive. Yeah. It only takes one phone call with my mother to realize, oh my God, I'm back in 1985. You know, I mean, it's like mainstream culture.

Like if you look at like the biggest, most popular TV shows, the pop bands, it's still very like this is what a man is and this is what a woman is. Yeah. Thank God for Harry Styles, because at least he kind of is doing some he did something interesting with it. And maybe that is like where we are in 2025. But you know, that's quite recent. I want to say something controversial. I am not a big fan of Harry Styles. And I think if McFly were doing that, that would be more daring. I think with Harry Styles, because look, I love what he's doing. Yeah. I think it's great. But you kind of expect it of him,

right? Yeah. It's like, I'm really trying to find a good example. Give me like the straightest boy band. Give me, give me someone, God, 9-11. Why? I'm really going back to my... Ronan Keating. If Ronan Keating wore flares and a wig, I'd be like, okay, Ronan Keating, I see you. But Harry Styles, he's already, I mean, you guys could disagree. It's great that he's doing it. He's a femme-sage. But it's not a stretch. It's like, imagine like quite a masculine presenting guide. The real line is getting someone who is a South Asian male in the public eye, really

experimenting with his gender. Because he's a white guy. He's got a license. I mean, he's great and he's in the arts. Sorry, I am getting on my house. I think Harry Styles is great for the culture, but I think when you're a white man and you have a quite a feminine presenting body, you can get away with so much more. And you're in the arts, you know, you're not accounted by day and then wearing flares and going to the clubs at night, you know? I think Harry, I know that Harry Styles treats his musicians very well. No, we're liking for that. Like I do that.

So I really like him for that. But I just have to say that, I don't know, David Bowie was doing it in the seventies, Boy George was doing it in the eighties. I think they've styled Harry Styles really elegantly, but you know, I just didn't find it that subversive. But it is for today's generation. It's my point. I'm talking about mainstream culture right now. If you're watching Love Island and you're also Harry Styles is in your e-curse, that's good. There's something there, but it's not it's not exposure. It's not brown people. Yeah. No. Are you conscious of your experimentations between the mask and firm? Like do you think you wake up

in the morning and think like today I'm feeling this, I'm going to wear this or like, or is it just something that's so, you know, natural to you? Yeah, I just feel it just feels natural. And I feel that actually within my creativity, you know, the second that I got into film and TV and video game scoring, everyone just shuts the fuck up. There's just nothing, there's just nothing they can say. And that has been amazing. It's only really been like a couple of years. And like, you know, before I'd say, you know, I'm a singer songwriter, multi instrumentalist, and there's always little put downs or, you know, I was trained in the sitar. So there's always some

put down, you know, but as soon as you're like, no, I score for film and TV, I work with orchestras, everyone shuts the fuck up. It's amazing. Is that because of the power that you've gone up around? And so now suddenly people respect you and you're allowed to be fluid or you're allowed to express yourself because you've got this power? I think so. Yeah, because I think I think because I'm, you know, I'm hyper, I'm very masculine in my drive and how I assert myself and I'm obviously hyper feminine in my appearance. And there's something about that combination that is very threatening to people. And even still like, I know, like I went to a really big film production party before Christmas and people are genuinely

so surprised when I get introduced as the composer. Now, I don't really give a shit about that anymore. Like that's the place that I've got to inside of myself. But yeah, it's just nice to get to the big daddy. I like, I don't give a shit anymore, but it's been decades of being spoken down to and you know, constant rumours. And did that ever make you feel like you needed to wear less eyeliner, have like changed the way that you appear to kind of conform? You've never felt that way? No. Great. Good for you.

No, because this is what makes me feel good. And it's yeah, I mean, it's, it's yeah, it's been makes me feel good. And it's yeah, I mean, it's, it's yeah, it's been decades of insults and harassment and being spoken down to. But I was right. I was right. And I think that's what I want to say to your audience that like even all of the stuff that people throw at you, everything that they say about your femininity or your appearance or this or that. If you're doing it, if it's your honest expression, if it's your authentic expression and it's honest, you'll never be wrong. Why do you feel like you're in a good place now? You just said that a few times and I want to know what's kind of shifted for you recently that makes you feel quite strong.

I think it's creativity and it's seeing the fruits of my creativity really bloom and really go onto the next level. And knowing that I did that on my own terms, that's really empowering. And, you know, you know, I like I'm like on the Grammy voting academy and I vote on the Brits and stuff. And so I know a little bit and I know quite a lot about the ins and outs of the industry. But why it's important to watch people come from certain backgrounds and win is because of the amount of hoops that people have to jump through. You know, like I barely speak to any of the South Asian people that I grew up with. You

know, I feel that the, the judgment was so huge and like, you know, I was, you know, quite wide eyed and Faye and into classical music and this whole thing of being artsy and Faye has always been used against me and to all the other little Faye people out there, like you're right. Your apps, your creativity, your vision is right. And your ability to keep applying yourself and you know apply yourself for jobs, apply yourself for funding, apply yourself for opportunities to just keep putting yourself forward. You will make amazing things happen for yourself and I just like I sort of wish that my community

supported that and like they didn't. So now I want to sit here and give that to not just young South Asian women, all South Asian women who listen to this because there are some cool badass people who listen to this. I know, right? Hilarious. I do feel there's a bit of a disconnect in our brown community between like the older lots, right? Yeah.

I remember the first time I went to Bangladesh, I went to Bangladesh twice my life. Yeah. 1995 and then 10 years later, 2005. When I went in 1995, I was nine just about to turn 10. And I saw two guys hold hands and I lost my shit. Yeah. Let me explain to you why I lost my shit. I grew up in Tower Hamlets in the 90s, full of Asians, we weren't, no social media, no smartphones. We were all raised

to be quite homophobic, quite basic and conform to whatever our culture slash religion was telling us. So when I saw two guys hold hands, because I thought it's only something little girls did in the playground in primary school. I was like, whoa. And then, oh God, I don't know what we call it in Bengali, but Hino-Hidra, that's her gender. I saw men in saris and I was like, blown away. How would you define your sexual orientation? I don't. Cause nobody asks you, I guess.

Yeah, I mean, I suppose on applications and forms and things that I have to fill in, I'll put in buy because you have to pick something. But as I say, it's not something like it's a descriptor. It's not something which is totalitarian or like that's it. What do you put on a dating profile? It depends which one I'm on. Why does it depend on the dating app? It depends for what I'm looking for. Which changes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which changes that there are, let's say I use certain apps for certain things. Yeah. There are other apps that I use for other things. Yes. I think. Shanghai One Night Stand's company. Those are like

the select the things that we all need. So poetry comes out for the long term relationship. But bi comes out for like the big fun stuff. Good times. Good times Poppy, which you know all about. I know all about. Well, that's right. Well, I put bi-curious on all of them, and all the basic bitches that I go out with are like, what's bi-curious and are you just bi? And it's like, well, I'm like 80% like dick, but 20% like the badge. So it's, but then sometimes it changes. Yeah. It shifts constantly shifts. There you go. And it's like, you're a fluid,

you're not a solid or a gas. You're not a solid or a gas. That's hilarious. It could be fluid. I feel gas. Spirit of the air. Spirit of the air. Yeah. I mean, you know, I've said a few times, I love this podcast, but I just wanted to come on as the giant artsy freak who's just paved her own path, done her own thing, has had a lot of shame and other things projected, you know, bullying, harassment, all kinds of things. But, you know, because I've remained and retained my creative vision and being truthful, actually, it's all worked out. Yeah, it's all working out. I loved what you said earlier, which was like just inhabit, you can inhabit all the different parts of you. And I was like, that's

really interesting. You can like live in the different bits of your identity. Yeah, you don't have to rein yourself in for anything or anyone. You don't have to explain. You don't have to justify. I think maybe that's why I freak people out because I'm like, well, I'm not putting a label on who or what I am. You take what you want from it. You make sense of it how you want. Just I'm not here to explain it to you. Yeah, take it at face value and run with it and have fun. Do you know what I mean? And on that note, we've had so much fun with you. Thank you so much, Mishy. I love you guys so much. You've reached the Shaggy Aunties Call Center. Want advice you can't ask your real aunties for?

Like, how do you ask for what you want in bed? Not sure which hole is a goal? Where do anal beads really go? Have you been faking orgasms your whole adult life? Accidentally called your boss daddy? Is your long-time love not going down south? For more than just the tip, we're here for you. Yes, you.

And you. And you. And now it's time for the Shaggyney aunties! Please remember to ask the bill payers permission before calling us. Shaggyney aunties are not medical professionals and bear no responsibility for the consequences of your actions. I shall read it. Hi, I recently come across your podcast and as a British Bengali female, I absolutely love the content. Is this you? Keep reading. I've been my partner for seven years. He is a middle-class Englishman.

Been there, done that. I love the middle-class Englishman and has always had a thing for brown girls. So understands the Asian culture. But I'm the first modern Muslim girl he has been with. We're now discussing marriage and kids and my family are traditional, capital letters, Muslim Bengali, so he would have to convert for the nikka. He is struggling with the idea of not wanting to do this as he is not controlling the narrative. But I have made it clear from early on in dating that this would have to happen. Annoying that now at this stage it's a hurdle for him. Where is the boundary with

my family or my partner? I want them to have a relationship, but I feel like I'm in the middle of pleasing my family or my partner and risk losing one. Can you advise? Thanks. A new listener. This is your story. Yeah. So I left him basically. Actually, we left each other. No, this is basically my story. Yeah. And here's what I would have done, you listener. Because religion and faith wasn't that important to me and because I loved this man, I was like, I'm willing to forego him not converting.

But actually, now that I think about it, my parents would have disowned me, they wouldn't have talked to me. So, what the fuck am I saying? So, what am I saying? Don't listen to me. But it's a tough one, isn't it? Because she has to weigh up two things.

Her family and this guy. Yeah. And that's what you need to really start thinking about. Don't pussy foot around. I know so many women and men that are in relationships and they should have had the conversation years ago. And because they're just having fun, head in the sand, not really dealing with the actual elephant in the room.

So you have to have a long, hard look at yourself and be like, what is important to me? And if I were to marry this guy, what does it look like? Because that means no more family visits, no more pillar rice, no more mom's food. All of that is cut off. I mean, usually when you have grandkids, they forgive you, but are you willing to do that? On the flip side, if you marry, if he, what are you asking of him? I know this is a big thing for him to navigate. I don't think any situation should make you ever choose between your partner and your family. Something there is wrong, right? So you've got to talk to your parents and be like, how much of a big deal is this for you? Because if I choose you, I'll resent you forever.

And it'll go the other way as well. She chooses him, I'll resent you forever. And it'll go the other way as well. She chooses him, she'll resent them forever. Right? Resent him, sorry. Resent that choice. I think you're in a real bind. And basically, he knew what he signed up for. So I think kick him out. It's a really difficult one. Because he was like, I told him from the start and he's been with other Asian girls, so he gets the fetish, but he didn't know they're Muslim. You know what, I'm really fascinated.

Do we know if, did she keep him a secret? Because I kept my ex partner a secret for 10 years. So do they know? I imagine she put traditional caps, they have no fucking clue. They have no clue. Look, it's a hurdle, right? She's not saying a boundary. It's a hurdle for him. Help your bae jump the hurdle. Give him Eid, give him Ramadan, give him all

the fun stuff. Oh my God. Give him the fun stuff. Basically give him Islam for dummies. Give him all the fun stuff and just keep all the non-fun stuff away from him. Yeah, good idea. Good idea. There's really food we eat. Great bits of the Quran. Pick and choose, pick and choose, pick and choose. Pick and make us Islam for him. Yeah, good idea. Good idea. There's a lot of food we eat. Great bits of the Quran. Yeah. Pick and choose, pick and choose, pick and choose. Pick and make us Islam for him. Help him get over the hurdle. Yeah. And then he'll convert. What religion is he? But he might be a Buddhist and that just sounds quite fun. No, I think he's definitely sounds like he's got nothing. Middle class white guy. Atheist. Christian. Or atheist. Or a Buddhist. Thank you for listening, new listener.

Basically pick your family. Every time. Every time. Also, pick him if you have to. It depends how hot he is. And who you have more fun with. Like if you're having loads of fun with your mum and you think actually long term mum is much more fun than this guy, then obviously choose mum.

If your mum's kind of dry, then your mum is dry. I had a really bad relationship with my mum, so I picked my ex-partner. Yeah. This is the thing. Parents have to work hard for you there, by the way. Hundred. They can't just like, you know, just be there. Like, your parents have to make an effort with you.

If my parents raised me, like, if my parents loved me and showed that love, I probably would have married a Bengali guy. But because they were so difficult, I was like, well... Yeah, yeah. Can't have that. I was like, well, okay. I know, it's true, actually. My mum mom never like suggests to go out or anything like that. I'm always the one suggesting it. I mean, what kind of relationship is this?

Very one sided. As in you going out with your mom? Yeah, like I'm always suggesting fun stuff for us to do. And she's like, no, I want to stay inside. She's like, it's too cold. Oh, well, it is cold. So if you have any thoughts or questions or dilemmas, any kind of conundrums, anything that we can help you with, please contact the Shagny aunties. You can email us at browngirlsdoit2 at bbc.co.uk.

Or send us a WhatsApp or voice note to 0796810822. Bye!