Brown Girls Do It Too - La-La-La-Lesbian

Episode Date: June 2, 2023

What is dating like for queer brown women in 2023? Char Bailey and Sharan Dhaliwal join Poppy and Rubina to discuss intense relationships, supportive nanis and Bollywood crushes.Have a message for Poppy and Rubina? If you’re over 16, you can message the BGDIT team via WhatsApp for free on 07968100822. Or email us at [e-mail] episodes released every week. If you're in the UK, for more BBC podcasts listen on BBC Sounds: bbc.in/3UjecF5

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. This is an episode about acceptance. A bold and unabashed celebration of love, sex and community. So before you listen any longer, we must ask you to accept us for who we are. Foul-mouthed brown women who speak about unspeakable things. That strong language language And adult themes Terms and conditions apply This is Brown Girls Do It Too

A podcast about the sex lives of British Asian women The fantasies, the failures And every F word in between I'm Poppy and the best way to describe my sexuality is by curious, but ultimately, I always need dick. I'm Rubina, and the best way to describe my sexuality is impossible to define. For me, sexy eye contact is sexy eye contact. So basically, anything with eyes, except cows. Everyone knows cows are sacred.

Or scary. Have you ever seen a cow like, look at you? Oh my god, I love cows. You love cows? Have you seen a field of cows that look at you and go moo? I'm not a Hindu, but when I went to India and saw the cows in the streets just like eating apricots, I was like, there is something special going on here. Like it made me not want to eat meat when I saw those cows.

How long did that last? The month I was in India. That's pretty long. It was all right. Can't get me in India anyway so no point so today's episode we're talking about queerness sexuality being straight

being bi-curious so I'm bi-curious you're bi-curious I am bi it's on all my dating apps I'm bi-curious I think I think I can totally be with a woman

I can kind of imagine maybe it happening later in my life because you know women live longer my partner's eight years older than me he's going to die he's going to die soon and so yeah

so I need to think about what's going to happen next you need a backup plan you know I women live longer. My partner's eight years older than me. He's going to die. He's going to die soon. And so, yeah. So I need to think about what's going to happen next. You need a backup plan. You know, I think it would be okay. Yeah. Well, I didn't even know what lesbians were until when I was like 18 or 19. Oh, yeah, no.

I mean, maybe I'd probably know like 15, 16. I mean, there was like a few gay people at school who were like openly gay. Not in my school. There was no one gay. No one gay. Oh, yeah, you were absolutely in the closet. I went to a school full of black kids and Asian kids.

There was no way you were going to be fucking... Well, my school was pretty diverse, but I remember I had two friends, a guy friend and a girl friend, we were really tight, the three of us. And one lunchtime, they took me into the lunch hall. The guy said, I just want to tell you I'm gay. Then the girl said, I just want to tell you I'm gay.

And then I was like, am I gay? Like, what is this? But you know what? I think I was really asexual for a long time. Like, I was just quite like, am I gay? Like, what is this? But you know what? I think I was really asexual for a long time. Like, I was just quite like, meh. It was only really like, maybe, no, like 16. 16, okay. 16, and suddenly I went from like, I did a poppy,

I went from zero to like desperately horny all day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's probably your hormones kicking in. Yeah, period. They just came later. But I remember everyone was like much more interested in talking about their sexuality and identifying. Yeah.

With like choosing, and you had to choose a tribe. Yeah. Because I was like, I'm not ready to choose a tribe. Right. I don't even know who I am yet. But I remember when we were in school, we would say, that's gay all the time. Oh my God.

And it was, it's so derogatory. And we would say, I would say it like 50 times a day. My mates and I would say, oh my God, that's so gay. Yeah. And we would find different ways to say it. Like we'd be like, oh my God, you live in Haring, gay. Are you a gamer? See, I'm laughing and I shouldn't laugh.

It's ridiculous. But it was funny. It was funny at the time. It was funny, but like, oh, wow, what were we just doing so casually without thinking, without really thinking about the consequences? So the last time I used that slur was um 2004 when I was in uni five did I then I think sort of after 2005 six I was like yeah yeah yeah stopped using it because it you can't say it yeah it's bad and it's a slur I also think like sometimes in South Asian communities and I remember this incident

from somebody I know from mosque it's like we we bandy around kind of homophobic sentiment without really knowing that we're knowing that it's there. Absolutely. And then you go out into the world, right? You go to school, you go to university, and you have this thing that you bring up and then you get called out and you get in trouble and you're like, shit.

But in that community... Yeah. We talked about it. Do you remember in series one where I was saying I've had to do so much unlearning because a 10-year-old poppy was definitely homophobic? And it's exactly that what you just said we just you just grew up it was like dinner table conversation it's you you joke with

your cousins about it like it's such an intrinsic part like homophobia is such an intrinsic part and i think if you ever hear like i i think my parents didn't i mean i met my parents were homophobic but they didn't vocalize it that much yeah whereas i have friends who when i'd go to the house for dinner yeah their parents would say like the most casual the homophobic but they didn't vocalize it that much yeah whereas i have friends who when i'd go to their house for dinner yeah their parents would say like the most casual the homophobic things about like graham norton yeah and you know like he's fine he's what he's fine but he's you know he's a bit yeah he's a bit yeah yeah yeah he's gay he's not a bit anything yeah he's just gay but and also who doesn't love graham norton graham norton really helped the gays he did he helped the gays in South Asian families

yeah because we all watched that our perception of the gays yeah through Graham Norton oh my god I didn't think about that Graham Norton's done amazing work he's done really good work

for society for our community for our community yeah well I think I'm definitely I still need dick because I went on a really average date last night

so I'm not fully satiated but when I'm when I've got my fill of dicks I'm definitely there was a there was a redhead. Oh, my gosh. You love a redhead.

Oh, my gosh. She was absolutely beautiful. Oh, is that the one that you matched with? Yeah, she matched. And I showed you the photo. And I didn't talk to her for ages. And then she just unmatched me because I wasn't doing anything.

And I really wish I hadn't... I just suddenly got... Like, with guys, I never get nervous with guys. I just don't care. But with her, I suddenly got like, oh my God. You know, I got really nervous, like butterflies in stomach and like, fuck, fuck, fuck. I'm going to fuck this up.

I'm going to fuck this up. I'm just going to say something really. I think my favoured female is more like, a little bit more like Birch. I think. I think, yeah. My female is like, needs to look like a Victoria's Secret model girly really

yeah yeah I do but you must not like me no I love you but I'm not would you fancy me if you saw me on the street I think I'd grow to

I'd probably marry you no I'd marry you but I wouldn't want to you'd marry me like mag shag mag shag mag shag you want to shag me

I want to shag you you want to shag me no I'd want to I'd want to marry you yeah you want to marryag me with a mug I'd want to marry you fuck chuck marry basically I'd want to marry you yeah we would have a long time love

yeah yeah we'd absolutely have a long time love it would not it wouldn't be a one it would be a terrible one night stand it would be a terrible one night stand but it would be a good long time love it would be

it would be solid foundations old people's homes holding hands yeah in the same single bed we'd have like we'd have periods where the relationship was open

oh yeah and then we'd have closed periods like we're going to close the relationship yeah yeah yeah oh my god do you want to marry me now yes absolutely yes

that is exactly what I want to do I think I know it is what you'd want and I know like I know what I'd need to sacrifice to do it sacrifice my sanity

I'd have to sacrifice my fucking sanity I love you our romance is the greatest romance really oh yeah you just never want to bang me, but I'll get there. I'll get there soon.

We're joined today by two incredible women who can speak firsthand about being British, Asian and queer. We liked her so much, we've asked her back again. It's Sharon Dallywell. Sorry, went of a game show there. Sharon is a writer who founded the South Asian culture magazine Burnt Roti. She is the director of Middlesex Pride and creator of Oh Queer Cupid, a queer speed dating and comedy night. And Char Bailey is a journalist, presenter and model, as well as director of Birmingham Pride.

Welcome, guys. Welcome. My flaps are going off right now. Flatmates is a great title, isn't it? Flatmates. Flatmates is a great title for this episode.? Flatmates. Flatmates is a great title for this episode. Thank you for bringing

your wonderful flaps to Brown Girls JT. Oh, wow. It's just like a 50 shades of, well, four shades of brown flaps in the studio today. Yeah, we're all kind of a similar shade, actually.

Two sets, eight sets. Eight sets of, yeah. I think what's really interesting about just vaginas, if we just go straight into that, it's like when you were growing up, the vaginas that I watched and the lesbian scenes

on TV that I watched, we were discussing earlier about I'd just see blonde blonde women with like fake tits shagging. And that, I mean, I thought it was hot, but it wasn't me. It didn't like me. My vagina didn't like that. And that was really confusing for me, like as a kid. Did you have that kind of weird dysmorphia about your vag? Vag dysmorphia.

I didn't necessarily have flap dysmorphia or vag dysmorphia or vulvomorphia but I did have nipple dysmorphia. Do you have big nipples? Well, big brown things. I was like, what is this?

Because I thought they were supposed to be like tight little pink hard little things. We talk about this in our show. I only found out that at university

when I was talking to some people and someone had a 5p coin and was like a five pence and they put it near their nipple and they're like mine's like this big and I was like oh my god mine's like two 2p coins

lay your pint on my nipple mine is 10p mine's tiny oh is it really no massive. Yeah. I'd say mine's 50p. Oh, I've seen, I've seen, I've seen the nipple is just marginally smaller than the entire boob. Wow. Real nipple diversity. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's fascinating.

How do you both identify? What's your sexual, where are you on the spectrum? And what language do you like to use so we get it right? Or if we get it wrong, we can apologise. I identify as queer, as a cis woman and pronouns are she her i'm also a cis woman i identify as a lesbian yeah and i'm recently uh i say recently single i was single about for about a year now so my mind is still single and i'm dating women for the first time so i will need. So I will need an actual manual on what the fuck to do

because I don't know what to do with women. So I'm like kind of putting it off, but not putting it off. It's interesting. So I mostly need dick, but I've always fancied women. I went down on a woman like 15 years ago. I went too quickly, too soon. Like was just didn't know what the fuck to do. I was like, whoa i i like

vagina flaps went inside i was like you're straight you're straight and then that sort of right right for want of a better expression put me off but i've always fancied women and now i'm dating women and my friends are like you need to go out you need to you should date older women not younger women because you don't know what the fuck you're doing they teach you that feels smart yeah yeah and older women are just like they know what they want they know their body then they're confident they're you know what i mean and it's like i don't know what the fuck you're doing. And also if they teach you, that feels smart. Yeah, yeah. And older women are just like, they know what they want. They know their body. They're confident. You know what I mean? And it's like, I don't want to accidentally say the wrong thing. Well, the interesting thing is,

is like when you have dates or like sex with like queer people, they really love talking during sex. So one thing I noticed when I eventually did come out in my 30s and then I started dating like women and non-binary people, I was nervous as well. I was just like, I don't know what the hell I'm doing like I know what I'm doing to my own I don't know what to do to everyone else's genitalia um and they just literally guide you through it and it's like beautiful sex is just so much more intimate and so much more giving and caring because they tell you what they want and they ask

you what you want as well and it's just yeah it's really lovely i do this really fucked up weird double standards thing like when i'm dating guys i'm like a fucking dick but when i'm dating women i'm so respectful yeah that's perfect yeah you know me like with guys i love it i love it but with women i am so like will message and i mean not that i don't message guys but i might keep them on read for like a day or two. I think it's because like women go through a lot of shit. And it's just, you know what it's like. And you just want to be kinder

because you've experienced it as well. And you know, men do tend to have it a little bit easier. And so you don't really give that much of a shit about them. And when you were growing up in your South Asian communities, did you see any lesbians? No. Oh, God, no. No, no lesbians. I saw no queerness around me. And if there was, it would be very hidden.

Well, I have got like the queer gene in my family. So like my mum's, Marcy's daughter, she had like a best friend who was like called San and had like a short haircut and was like would come to all the weddings and always be around not wearing like a sari or linger just being like in like the boys clothes um so we always like wondered about them but there was never any like open lesbianness or it's kind of hidden there was like a couple at my mosque two women older living living together they were actual flap mates but like no one talked about like anything else they just lived together you know they just live together they just keep each other company yes yes it's always living together yeah they're good good friends

good friends they're fucked good friends they're fucking scissoring but I love that your mosque has a lesbian couple because as a Bengali growing up in East London like there was I mean I barely saw

my parents fucking show love to each other let alone to women do you know what I mean but then if you think about like all the repressed aunties and stuff

imagine how many like unrequited loves do you know what I mean like they'd be they'd be keeping that well in the closet I think like even though you didn't see it i definitely felt it so like i definitely felt an attraction to women and was like oh what what is this and like was scared like when i was

younger if i like stared at a woman's cleavage for too long i was like i'm gonna go again again again like feeling like that i had to address that straight away rather than just being like it's complicated yeah now i'm like i'm so comfortable with being like, well, I'm multifaceted. I can feel some things sometimes and that's okay. But when you're young, you just have to define yourself by these things so quickly.

Also, when you grow up Muslim as well, like we're so fucking homophobic. So like, it's just like that just added that layer. And so casually homophobic. We just start a lot of this episode

talking about how we were that generation who grew up saying gay in a derogatory way. All the time. All the time. I mean, it's across a lot of religions and cultures about how we were that generation who grew up saying gay in a derogatory way yeah all the time yeah all the time i mean it's across a lot of religions and cultures really homophobia it's not really specific to one i feel like it's most of them really are quite and it's to do with control it's to do with patriarchal control and as soon as like queerness or any kind of like like homosexuality comes into question it challenges the patriarchy and a lot of religions

are built on patriarchy do you feel like with the south asian community like in terms of um queerness that that attitudes are kind of changing or you did you still get like looks from the aunties and the uncles and like rude boys or whatever rude boys i think that's the problem really isn't it the rude boys i well how about you well my nanny loves me i'm a girlfriend oh my god that's amazing you know my my mom was that like naughty indian girl who ran off with a black man for a start so she had that to deal with yeah but now but now like you know the first time i heard an asian person say lesbian was in bend it like beham. Oh, right. Lesbian? I thought she was a Pisces.

Oh, yes! That's such a good line! That is such a good line! Oh, my God, it's 20 feet above that. I didn't even know that, like, aunties knew about lesbians. So now, like, my nanny and my massey, and I've got lots of... They've met your girlfriend.

That is amazing. My little sister had her 18th birthday party, and because she's, like, the most desi person you've ever met, she wanted a Bollywood-themed party. Aw. So I bought my girlfriend for the first time oh my god my nanny was like oh jamia she calls me jamia oh is this your girlfriend oh that fills me with so much hope i know because like my community we're quite um how do i say it backwards and it's like if i i couldn't introduce um i mean i could barely introduce my white ex-male

partner to my parents but if i was lesbian if i had if i was dating a woman there was no way i'd be able to yeah i think yeah it's it's hard i think it's again different for different people like parts of my family aren't okay with my queerness and parts are and it's a lot to do with like attitudes the way they've grown up the things they've learned when they've grown up and how that's affecting them now um a lot of resentment as well like you know how come you can do all this stuff you know i couldn't do anything like you know so a lot of that holds within them so like my dad doesn't care that i'm queer like when i came out he quoted me back to me actually he was just like um sexuality is fluid sharon excuse me i said that to you last week and he was like no i said it but there's other people in my family that aren't as open about it um how do you deal with that like

do you i just don't care yeah yeah but my heart is filled with so much joy that your nanny has met your i don't know why it's really, it's so nice that that has happened. What was your discovery of your sexuality? How did you figure everything out for yourself? Or are you still kind of, you know, you got any questions about yourself? That's such a good question. Like, how did you get here? I just followed what my body told me to do.

It's instinct, isn't it? It's like natural. It's not like I didn't choose to be a lesbian it's just when I started developing I was like oh my gosh yeah there's there's women around me all like I'm attracted to them feeling different to like my friends who fancied like Tom and Dave yeah I was like Tom and Dave ain't doing it for me babes Tom and Dave just not doing it for me and you know there was a lot of like shame and like a lot of like did you have that

internal conversation the one that I just said which was like oh my god like fuck this is happening to me yeah I was like fuck there's something

wrong with me because I thought gayness was for like white men like Graham Norton oh my god we were talking about how Graham Norton

made my parents be like you know gay people are cool yeah it's alright for white boys to be gay because Graham Norton but it's not alright for brown girls to be gay what? no I'm like I need to go and pray or something

like I need like Jesus Allah Moses anyone how did you deal with that shame initially? like what did you do? hid it yeah I was like I'm not a lesbian I'm a bisexual

right I was like I tried to I tried I dated a guy like when I first came out to my mum and I was like I'm not a lesbian I'm a bisexual right I was like I tried to I tried I dated a guy like when I first came out to my mum and she was like oh my god what have I done wrong I was like oh my god now I go and get a boyfriend it's fine yeah um but the more sort of I got to know myself and got okay with myself and started to find communities and find representation and see other queer women brown women thriving i was like yeah i can be that i don't have to put i don't have to stay here in this stiff comfort i can i can like sex is such a complicated thing anyway right if you're straight there's more kind of um reference

points in television or whatever there's more things that you can access if you're straight to be like okay i will behave like sharon from eastenders that's not what i was doing but you know you had examples that you go to whereas i think if you're growing up with any kind of same-sex attraction you're like you're like looking for those reference points and when you're watching sex scenes on television and movies it's all so much straight sex and like how did you approach that type of sex with like very little information basically i think like sharon said when you're sleeping with women it is a lot more about the conversation that's heard okay that's good for me to know so i can just ask

stuff right i can just ask oh my god women are sacred we are sacred and we have this way of coming together and being able to talk about like what we want and what we need and what's okay we're really considerate about being in each other's spaces. We really are. Have you seen Girls in a Club Toilet? Oh, my fucking penis. It's exactly like that. It's exactly that. But in the bedroom, it's like,

babes, are you all right? What do you need? What do you like? Then does that mean that it's harder to have casual sex as a lesbian? Because there's always these, like, kind of dynamics of... There's just more.

There's more to get through to just be like, we're drunk and we're out. Let's just go for it. But like we said earlier, I think it's easier to have respect and care for women more than for men. So maybe I think that's why it's slightly easier, probably. To fuck guys? To fuck women, because there's more respect to like have casual sex where it's good. See, I don't want to apply the model that I have on men

with women, which is why I'm, do you know what I mean? This is a thing. Not the respect thing, but like with guys, I mean, she knows,

I've got no game. Straight for the dick. Let's go. Yeah. There's no, I can't, I'm not a seductress. I want to see this

in action. Oh, it's terrible. My friends are teaching me how to flirt in real life. Like dating apps, I'm fire, but like in real life, I'm like just i just clam up i'm terrible but um

but i'm not seductress but with women i'm like this is gonna sound awful but like i've got to put i've got to put work in i've got it like with guys it's easy right you just lie there you lie there they lie there do shit with women i have to i have to i have to be respectful i have to put effort i have to talk i have to seduce i have to be i have to ask to put effort. I have to talk. I have to seduce. I have to ask consent. It's like, it's a lot of work. But the outcome, the satisfaction is worth it. Also, this is the reality. Yeah, and also it's like,

if you're in a relationship, then you don't have a constant conversation. Yeah, yeah, because you know each other's bodies. You just set the tone. I want casual sex. I don't want to be in a relationship. Yeah. But I make that very clear in my...

You can still... Just have that conversation at the top with a woman, right? You're just like, I want to have casual sex. And also, like, it's not like this whole kind of like, they read an essay to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they like have diagrams or whatever. You know what it is?

It's because I'm really nervous. It's my nerves. Yeah, and that's fine. Because you know what they'll do? Essentially, like a lot of the time. So when I've had casual casual sex with women either they've seen my nerves or i've seen their nerves okay and so you have this whole kind of moment where you're just like you know you tell them what you ask them what they want or you tell them what you want in a in a way to calm those nerves yeah you know and then those nerves disappear really quickly because then you're in it

you're having sex and it's really hot and it's really nice, you know? And it's not like this constant and then this and then they ask this and then, you know, it's just it's at the beginning mostly. And then throughout, if they don't like something or they don't want something or they do want something, then they'll like, you know. I went on a date with this woman and she just smelled like Chanel and I was like, her pussy probably smells like Chanel. That sounds great. I know. No one's sure. I know.

I'm actually really put off by people who have like over perfumed scents oh yeah if there's like you know there's some guys who just like i mean i think it was all from like being a teenager that links everywhere all right i feel loud when you meet someone online can you trust they are who they say they are? I keep thinking so much about you. She's so stunning. It's all well planned. Love Janessa is the true crime podcast from the BBC World Service

and CBC Podcasts, investigating the murky world of online romance scams. She was trying to get me to send her money. And it's available now. You win their hearts, you win their wallets. Listen on BBC Sounds. For me, I was like, oh, isn't that just like a stereotype that we say about gays,

that like their relationships, or like lesbian women, that their relationships go from one date to marriage within like... I mean, it's a stereotype, but it's true. I feel like the feelings are always there I feel like in every woman that I date

there is potential for marriage tomorrow wow but it's like with my partner now we have like actively paced ourselves because

because of the intensity too much yeah yeah yeah it's like your babes yeah you've got to rein it in yeah we've got to rein it in we've got to get there yeah

I feel like because like the attraction's so strong but why why are queer relationships more intense than a straight relationship because they're better

because they're better they're just better how many times have you made best friends in the toilet with a girl that you don't know yeah imagine you fancy that woman you date her

you've got things in common you want the same thing what else do you need not all men exactly that's true all in one person but that's too much too much pressure on that one person and you date her and you've got things in common and you want the same thing. What else do you need? Exactly. That's true. You're all in one person but that's too much.

Too much pressure on that one person maybe. That person has the same thing. That person has the same thing. So you're both having too much with each other. Yes! Too much!

Sounds like a very good meal. But then you've also got cake on. But then you're both in the same eaters and you're both just like I'm right at the top of your jaw and you're like

we're here now. And you're eating each other out you're eating at the buffet and you're too much. And you're at the top of your job like, we're here now. And you're eating at the buffet. It's fucking bliss, mate. No. Oh my God. I can't wait. You just have to have

community so that because you do tend to fall in love in the same place that you get your heart broken. Yeah. So there's a lot of bumping into exes

and exes going out with people that you know. Oh my God, have you guys had that have you guys slept with somebody you know no we haven't we haven't

I don't think we're oh get out the receipts get out the whatsapps let's go both of them like no and then they're like

there's a crossover a step away yeah there's quite a few I didn't think about it like that because your community's smaller I guess and so everyone

knows each other everyone knows each other everyone knows each other everyone knows their business yeah yes everyone knows everyone's business I live in Margay and the gay community

there is heaving and like all of them know each other and all of the people that are like oh have you met this person and I was like oh how do you know

that person and I was like gays I was like alright yeah you're all gay that's all connected it's like community we do things together we have our pride event

we like you know we join together for protests. It's much more communal. It's so much more collectivist. Yeah. What are the orgies? There must be like orgies then. Well, there's sex parties.

There's sex parties. There is. I think the way like the queer community have got their shit on lock when it comes to sexuality, the straight community are like not even there yet.

Yeah, because we have to consider like things that you don't. Like who's going to be more dumb or who's wearing the strap on? Are you happy to be penetrated or not? Like, are toys okay or is it just fingers and oral? You have to have these.

I mean, I think... You chat in a way, straight sex, you just... I'm fucking right now and no one's chatting. Yeah. No one is talking.

Yeah. And I'm having... Just listening to this conversation... Apart from Poppy being like, can you please put on talking. Yeah. And I'm having, just listening to this. Apart from Poppy being like, can you please put on a condom? And they're like, no. Oh my God, Poppy. She's saying a lot of young guys

and none of them want to, none of them can come through sex. They have to like finish themselves off. And they, none of them are bothered about the condom. One of them said it was her responsibility. Wow.

Okay. Wow. He said, like at at the time it was like banter and i was like that and i told him off but it was funny at the time you had to be there but i did tell him off i did tell him i did tell him off okay good i did tell him off but i think a lot of a lot of men see okay we were talking about representation a lot of men and a lot of straight people see the representation on tv phone porn whatever porn, whatever. But it's not good. No.

That's not how sex happens. That's not how that works. I could do a survey. We're not innocent. Queer people aren't innocent because there is this, like, lesbian toxic masculinity. Oh, yeah. That comes up with, like, more masculine presenting lesbians. I see.

I definitely have had to unlearn some toxic masculine. Can't even say it now because I unlearned it. Unlearned it. I'm shit that shit. I can't even say it anymore. I can't even say it anymore. Yeah. But like, that's how you learn how to.

What is that? Can you just like give us an example of how that might play out? Just like. It's like girls trying to be. Just copying. Yeah, copying. Copying men. So like.

Copying men's like. Copying men's. Yeah, being a bit misogynistic like having different sort of expectations like having

similar expectations it's the way we were raised I internalised the misogyny and the patriarchy and the homophobia I acted like a dude

because all I saw dudes got value the men in my community were valued so therefore I felt if I acted like them I would be valued and respected

so that is literally that pyramid treating other women like shit because yeah and that's all you know it's all you learn right so yeah yeah absolutely yeah i like one thing i really love about queer relationships is this this idea maybe it's an illusion of equality that happens in relationships because i think like that is what i strive have strived for in my partnership like we had a civil partnership because i was like that feels like something i could sign up to you know where we are respected on paper we're like legally bound as equals love that and the equality you know we have each other's backs we have like a long relationship where i'll do shit he'll do shit you know we just we look out for each other and i

feel that strong but i feel like the equality that you get in a queer relationship that conversation that it feels like that feels almost like the pinnacle of equality like what how else could you do in a relationship because we're like i mean for example because i just had a baby it's like that's really shifted a lot of stuff my way that just had to happen and like so you know you can do a bit of compensating we try and figure out i guess i guess yeah in some ways a lot more equality obviously yes definitely but in some ways we are still in the same structure we are still in the same system where we are given these gender kind of identities in a sense all these tasks or these people to be um and so there's things that are still having to be unlearned in

these kind of like queer relationships when it comes to equality as well um but less so obviously less so i mean heterosexuality is just like incredibly toxic in so many ways when it comes to equality as well um but less so obviously less so i mean heterosexuality is just like incredibly toxic in so many ways when it comes to like gender yeah and just listening to you to you guys talk and just my recent experience it's just like straight people we just don't talk enough yeah and i'm quite like i'm very vocal i'm like i want you to do this i want to do this i want to fuck like this i want to do this. I will say it. And I have no qualms about saying what I want. Would you consider yourself dumb? I'm absolute sub.

Really? Yeah, because I'm a dumb in real life. That's interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because of waving. I want to get rammed. I want to be subservient. I'm your slut.

I am total sub. I won't even switch. But I know what I want as a sub. Right, okay. So I don't know. There's a kind of class of sub where you're like a dom sub. I don't know. An assertive sub.

An assertive. Very confident sub. I'm a confident sub. But I often find, because in my life I'm quite alpha, so in bed I want... I want to talk about Asian women, because this is Brand Girls Do It Too, and the idea that did you have Asian women, because this is Brown Girls Do It Too, and the idea that, like,

did you have Asian women that you fancied growing up? Because for me, the women that I fancied growing up tended to be white and tended to be, like, on TV or, like, you know, sexy white ladies or skinny, whatever. But, like, I never had, like, a sexual urge for a brown woman until much later. Yeah. I had Kajol.

Kajol! Oh, my God. And that unibrow. That a cardial. A cardial. Oh my God. And that unibrow. That unibrow. She was stunning. Rani Mukherjee. She's still stunning. Raveena Tandon.

Have you seen Tipu Tipu Barsapani? That is when I realised I was fucking... You were listing them all off now. You're like, hold on. That's when I realised

I was definitely... I'm on the spectrum because I watched that when I was eight or nine and she's dancing in this yellow sari seducing the man writhing around and I couldn't give a fuck about actually yeah I was like who is this bitch yeah

no I want her to wrap me around that sari now yeah I was a young little I want to yeah wow oh my god wait how old were you I was like eight or nine that's funky I'm 85 so like I was definitely a young child yeah yeah yeah moving on um no yeah i think i think i had a lot more desire for people that weren't brown because i didn't believe that i was allowed to be queer so i didn't believe loving a queer person with a brown person was the thing to do yeah it was almost like you had to fit yourself into the idea of a different person you had to almost like be like okay i'm not brown then if I'm queer or whatever. So I have to pretend to be white or something.

So like, yeah, I think it happened less, but I definitely, you know, you can't help it. There's so many hot brown women out there. Like you can't help it. So like it did happen. It did happen a lot. I feel like it's kind of just happened quite recently for me, maybe in the last four or five years.

I didn't ever date any brown women or any women of color because I didn't love myself. Yeah. I wasn't attracted to myself. So I wasn't attracted to them. There was like a whole unlearning of what it means to be white women or white women. OK. My friends used to like make a thing about it. And I knew it as well.

There was like something that wasn't right and like you were saying earlier about the equality in relationships now that I exclusively date brown women there's so much more that they understand about not just my queerness but my brownness and my Asian aware Asian away so easy it's so easy so beautiful yeah yeah like I'm skipping you're doing a John Boyega because he only dates black women yeah yeah that's amazing essentially yeah but like i used to say that publicly oh my god black women that's interesting i dated like white women and non-binary people and then now i'm dating a brown person and i have never been in such a healthy relationship oh my god yeah it's my first time experiencing

a proper healthy relationship. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. Congratulations. I know. Tune in next time for another episode of Flatblades. Flatblades should be a great sitcom.

Obviously, I've never... I went down on a woman, but she didn't come and I certainly didn't come. So I've never had sex with a woman. But like... You've had sex, you just didn't orgasm. You just didn't orgasm, yeah. I just didn't a woman, but she didn't come and I certainly didn't come. So I've never had sex with a woman. But like you just didn't. You just didn't orgasm. I just didn't orgasm. Yeah. So what is the what is the like is an orgasm much deeper with a woman?

Like, I'm just so fascinated. Like, what does it feel like? It depends. So like, I never really orgasmed when I was with a man unless there was clitoral stimulation, which rarely happened with a man. Because he didn't know he didn't get the fucking. And also they usually used to just fuck and then leave. Yeah.

And I don't. That is men. No, it's not. Okay, hashtag not all men. I mean, it's... I get a lot of clitoral stimulation. Thank you very much. Yeah, but like a lot...

Okay, hashtag not all men. A lot of men, a lot of men believe that that's... I mean, they're just happy to come a lot of the time. And they want to come quickly because they're lazy shit yeah so like now I come properly and more

it's not like before I used to just come from masturbation on my own and now I come from sex and so it's yeah it's better

because of that because I'm given space and time to come yes oh my god time I'm getting mugged off I'm getting mugged off and also

I feel like I might just be speaking for myself but definitely in my relationship there's not that ego of like my partner had to

make me come and squirt everywhere like if we both just want to lie there with a clit sucker and both come at the same time whilst we've

cold in hands mutual masturbation mutual masturbation is so hard so hard or like you know do some scissoring and then finish off with that

or you know take it turns with the strap and like there's so much more variation than just coming like Peggy it is Peggy like Peggy like Peggy or these cogs

literally Peggy I'm like a biff and chip you're like okay okay and then okay yeah literally pegging literally it's like fucking I'm like a biff and chip two days too you're like okay okay

and then okay and then that goes in there but I'm so but I'm so like the chains of straight sex is so ingrained in my brain

and behaviour it's just there's so many different ways you can come yeah there's so many ways yeah there's it's just there's so many different ways you can come yeah there's just so many there's so much to explore yeah and like when you have the like connection and the openness and the willingness to talk about what you want and then to actually like do it yeah of course we're gonna have you're so right about that like idea of you needing headspace to orgasm like to be in that head like because i've had texts where i like haven't come but i know it's because i got to my head or i started thinking about something

else which isn't really there but when you're in when you're in a relationship with somebody or not or whatever you're just having when you know that you're both having good sex and you there's just some sort of connection and then you orgasm there is like there's actually not much else in the world that's better than that oh my god yeah what could be better than orgasming i haven't had an orgasm since the 29th of December. Really? With someone. Obviously, me and my hand. Yeah, with someone.

I had six. I got into hate-mine territory. You know when you're just like bored and the sun's shining? You did have that energy yesterday. I was like, yeah. I was quite sleepy. I was like, oh, I know what I'll do. I called you to talk about something

and you monologued at me for five minutes and I was like, I have to pick up my child. Oh, yeah. I just had one. Yeah. And then I called you to talk about something and you monologued at me for five minutes and I was like, I have to pick up my child. Oh, yeah. Oh, I just had one. Yeah. And then I had another one after you put the phone down. And now... It's time for... The Shaggy Aunties.

Sorry. We always do that. You've reached the Shagany Aunties call centre. Want advice you can't ask your real aunties for? Like, how do you ask for what you want in bed? Not sure which hole is a goal? Where do anal beads really go? Have you been faking orgasms your whole adult life?

Accidentally called your boss daddy? Is your long-time love not going down south for more than just the tip we're here for you yes you and you and you um it's just a very short one today yes and i'll read it hi poppy and rubina i've been with my partner for a year he's amazing and treats me like a goddess. The only issue is that lately he's not making me cum. At first I thought it was stuff with me, so I faked orgasms. But actually, I think it might be him. Him.

It probably is him. Might be him. Might be him. And now I don't know how to bring it up because he thinks he's blowing my mind. Help. Oh, that's just every fucking most straight relationships. Sorry. I'm in that place

i had a really like lackluster date and he i did not have sex so i'm just i'm not satiated and that's where the agginess i think you just need yeah i need to get laid but you dear listener sounds like you shouldn't have faked an orgasm i mean i mean obviously i'm just don't be preachy but i think if you're starting on a miscommunication level that it's going to be difficult what do you guys think yeah we've we've kept our two days on like men in male relations like i've faked most of them i'm not gonna lie so much of it was faking um and that's when i realized that i didn't want to be with a man so maybe this is where this is going oh wow maybe it is interesting mic drop but like he treats her like a goddess i mean i don't know i mean it's kind of

like you know trying to find the good yeah in the situation she's been a classic woman she's faking the only issue lately he's not making me come so like lately maybe he was making her come and now he doesn't anymore they probably just need toys communication have a chat what do you think what would you advice would you give to this listener i would say um to have a chat what do you think what advice would you give to this listener I would say have a conversation about something new in bed that they can both do together

because exploration is always fun invite a new toy in or something I think it's getting stale and she's enabling it and perpetuating it maybe she should

when she hears him coming into the house right she should start masturbating and wait for him the house, right, she should start masturbating and wait for him to walk in on her while she's masturbating. And he'll be like, whoa, what's going on? And she'll be like,

I'm just trying to make myself calm because you don't. Oh my God, that's hard. Is that really what that is? That is what a girlfriend... That is what should happen. That is what should happen, but I don't think this listener is going to do that. No, but listen, if he responds and he's like,

that is so hot. Yeah, but also, you have to remember, you like, that is so hot. Yeah, but also, you have to remember, you have to be in his shoes, right? He will feel duped. I mean, I'm not saying get the fucking violins out for the man,

but he's like, I think I'm already serving you because you're coming. So she's faking it. She's not telling him that it's not working. She needs to tell him. So she needs to tell him

by masturbating in front of him. No. With words. With words. Dear listener, that is not my advice. That's what it would be. Fuck you, you shit.

No, she needs to fucking, she needs to tell him. She needs to remind him of like the best sexy time that they had when they were having orgasms. Do you remember that one time in Margate when you licked my and then oh yeah a little rimming yeah just bring it back to the best and get him to recreate it I think sometimes

you just need to be really vocal about what you want in terms of like let's have sex tonight and it's going to be like you know let's go for it let's really go for it

and give yourself time I think you know when you're in a relationship when you're in a relationship and you don't have much time and you kind of allocate sex to Sunday afternoons let's face it

that's what we do guys you know you need to kind of give yourself a few hours as well. Don't just be like, we've got 20 minutes. Don't rush. Go, go, go.

Because it's like, you're not going to have a good sex. You're not going to have fun. Yeah. But I think this is, the crux of this is communication. She's not telling him. She's enabling it,

perpetuating it. He's thinking she's blowing her mind and it's just going to get worse. I love that she's really faking it. She's like, oh, she's amazing. I loved it.

I loved it. I love it. Thank you. And she's compensating for the goddess stuff. That's what it she's amazing I loved it I loved it thank you and she's compensating for the goddess stuff that's what it is that's what it is I have another suggestion

yeah so maybe the way that she comes when she masturbates herself get him to enact it on her and that could be a step into it right

okay this is not what I was saying right she's masturbating in her room no without yelling at him no no

no no that is a great sketch okay and it's a great scene you need to go home and stop masturbating in your room and wait for your exactly no she she still needs to talk to him she absolutely needs to talk to him like gently nicely however while she's faking her next orgasm she could could be like, lol, I'm lying. You didn't believe me this whole time. Just kidding. I'm so happy.

You're a fucking dark man. Like, no. Dear listener, please communicate. I would say stop faking the orgasm. She's clearly faking them all. Yeah. If he thinks he's blowing her mind.

And you're just setting yourself up for a trap. Yeah. I think this is the thing. Women, we need to be a bit more forthright. We need to be honest. She deserves to have good sex. Absolutely. She deserves to be. He should be treating you a goddess outside we need to be a bit more forthright. We need to be honest. She deserves to have good sex. Absolutely. He should be treating you a goddess outside of the bedroom

and a goddess in the bedroom. And if he was treating her like a goddess in the bedroom, I think she probably would be coming. He'd be sucking your toes. We all go down on the gods like that, don't we? Anyway. Thank you so much for listening. And if you have any thoughts, questions or dilemmas for the Shagney Aunties,

you can email us at browngirlsdoittoo at bbc.co.uk. Or you can send us a WhatsApp or voice note to 079-68-108-22. Bye. Bye. going through your mind right now? What have your experiences been like? One Extra Talks is about to get brave. Yes, that's right, Richie Brave. And I'm taking the reins for the show where we delve into the hot topics that matter to young black people in the UK.

What does the future look like? Whatever the issues on your mind, this is the place for your weekly fix of honest debate and discussion. One Extra Talks with Richie Brave. Listen on BBC Sounds.