Brown Girls Do It Too - Life Begins At... with Poorna Bell

Episode Date: June 16, 2023

Could you pay Poppy and Rubina to go back to their 20's? What does growing older and evolving actually feel like? Poppy and Rubina joined by Poorna Bell chat about the different stages (and ages!) of life and if they'll ever reach a moment of absolute contentment and if it's even possible.Have a message for Poppy and Rubina? If you’re over 16, you can message the BGDIT team via WhatsApp for free on 07968100822. Or email us at [e-mail] episodes released every week. If you're in the UK, for more BBC podcasts listen on BBC Sounds: bbc.in/3UjecF5

BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. This podcast contains strong language and adult themes. It's for mature audiences. Mature, like a sexy divorcee in a BBC period drama. Or a good English cheddar. Or like an obscenely expensive bottle of wine. Nice, but a bit offensive. I think Chateau Nerf'd a poppy and Robina.

This is Brown Girls Do It Too. A podcast about the sex lives of British Asian women. The fantasies, the failures. And every F word in between. I'm Poppy and my life didn't really begin until the age of 26 when I discovered the source. Catch up. Sure. I'm Rubina. My life didn't really begin until after Muslim summer camp when I was 15.

Before that I was invisible and not in a cool super power way. I mean, we were all bloody invisible before 15, weren't we? In this episode, we want to talk about ageing. It's a privilege, sure, but it's also pretty daunting. And two of the most aspirational guests we've had on Recent Times have been women over the age of 60. Today, we're looking ahead to our 40s, 50s and beyond with nothing but excitement. So I want to talk to you about age. Have you ever felt the pressure of being an old lady spinster or just being old? No, not really.

I mean, I guess everyone feels it a little bit, but I think I've annoyingly, I've done all the things that, you know, you're expected to be done. Like I'm 35. I have a child. I have a partner. I bought a house. I have a stable permanent job. Like I've weirdly done all the things that are expected of you for the age.

So I'm like, I don't really feel the pressure that are expected of you for that age so I'm like I don't really feel the pressure I kind of feel the pressure to hold on to all that stuff I see yeah and if things are gonna like one of them's gonna fall away

like if I'm gonna quit my job I'm like oh is that a good mood do you feel like because you're into your late 30s and 40s do you feel like there is another kind of

rite of passage or something that you've got to you know like demarcations that you've got to achieve or do you feel demarcations that you've got to achieve? Or do you feel like actually? Yeah, I made a list of 40 things I want to do before I'm 40. That's such a Rabina. That's such a you thing to do.

Yeah. Is there anything that you need to hit before 40? Yeah, like loads. Loads on my list. Yeah, like places I want to travel, things I want to make, things I want to learn. Yeah. Yeah, like loads. I want to learn Spanish before I turn 40.

How's that going? I'm on my day six strike of Duolingo. Terrible. There's loads I want to do. Our experiences are so different. I felt the evil eye of being older and having women in bengali asian society and also the wider society made me feel old so i felt it twice yeah once when i was divorced and then wasn't marrying

again remarrying and then again within that same community not having any children and then i mean you know this i sort of dabbled in a bit of presenting and you know it was a bit of a like a nobody public person and I hadn't you know I was like a nobody basically but I never got the jobs and it was always given to much younger girls um and it's only really at 35 I was like fuck this shit yeah really I felt emancipated at 35 oh god yeah like I didn't I've you've actually now made me actually think I have had moments like that. I remember when I was 27 and I'd just been dumped and I was single. And I didn't have a job, I didn't have anywhere to live. And I was just like out in the world.

And I was 27. And I remember at the time being like, how am I going to recover from this? Yeah. And I was only 27. And I thought my life was over. Genuinely. Yeah. And now I'm like, to be honest, I feel like it could happen to me at 37.

It could happen to me again at 47. And God forbid it could happen to you at any of those ages 57 it could happen again and again and again but the point is like if you know you can like turn yourself around then it never matters what age you think those mothers should be because you know in yourself yeah like i know i also just believe lots of things like i believe you can switch jobs in your 50s i believe you can fall in love at any age so it's like all of those opportunities are out there I think every lifetime has these little loops

these little peaks and troughs where you feel like you're do you remember the 27 club it was like all those people that died when they were 27 so that's when that happened to me at 27 I was like well this is my

this is my swan song I'm done I mean I wasn't like suicidal in any way so just to like clarify that but I definitely I was really down I was on like low ebb.

Yeah. And then like things just started really looking up at like 28. And I wish that 28 year old had just spoken to 27 year old. Oh, that's only one year. Yeah, I know. In a year, shit can change. In a year, your whole life can change. Why do you think women have that sort of like,

especially when they're young, this really despairing, fatal fatalistic catastrophizing attitude of like it's over i think it's a few things like one is we have the fertility yes to think about which that is shit yeah but you know science is improving and you can freeze your eggs and there are surrogates and there's adoption and there's like options there are other options but you have to kind of pre you have to think about that if you want kids in your life you can't you can't decide at 42 to just, oh, maybe I'll give that a go. Because sadly, the time isn't there for you.

So there's that. But there's also this idea that ageing in our society makes you not sexy. And therefore, like, less appealing. I'm using open quotation marks. I don't really believe that. But that means that your options are limited. Like, my mom, my sweet little mom the other day,

she was like, I look at pictures of myself and I can see the skin on my neck isn't as taut as it used to be and that's like a real hang-up for her because she's 75 yeah and her skin's amazing but just she's got wrinkly skin on her mom she's beautiful and stunning yeah but she's old she looks like an older lady and that's okay yeah but but also as a society aging is this terrible evil thing that i mean who's doing aging properly meryl streep no no one who's embracing anybody who's famous and old and not saying no one everyone's got lip fillers everyone's doing the uh do you think you never do that i not lip fillers because i've got great lips but i will absolutely get saggy well i mean i will absolutely uh do a sprinkling

of botox oh yeah oh really oh yeah you do not need it well now i don't but in the future you would go for it yeah yeah like your mum and my mum would i i'm imagining mama hasn't your mom mama p has not mama p's not and you know my mom is not but it's a different time for us you we kind of revere youth don't we we're obsessed with it i would never get botox because i would hate for any girl to listen to this podcast and think about it and be like oh reena did it so it's okay i mean it is okay i'm like fine with you doing botox but i just feel like i do love that about you more public public faces yes yeah you're right this is just what i look like all right fine i'm not gonna get it done and then you and i could be the fucking pioneers that don't get it done and then loads of april iron girls don't get it done buddies do it too with our wrinkly wrinkly necks

and our wrinkly wrinkly eyes and also like part of what you see in the mirror isn't always like i don't know i just always see like a 16 year old rubina who's still a bit of a dweeb yeah yeah yeah waiting for her glow up babe you look stunning you I'm going to have a hot girl summer this summer. You'll see. Okay, fine. But it's funny. I wish I could shake young people and say that to them. And this is the other thing.

I might be 37 on my passport. I feel 27. I party like a 27-year-old. You definitely do. I don't feel 37. But then someone else was telling me the new 37 is the new 47 and the new 47 is because people are, you know, the goalposts are now changing.

Living longer, yeah. You know, people are having kids later, buying houses later, all those things that your parents did at those particular traditional ages. It's now being... Well, my mum had me at 40, so I'm just thinking... Rebel following another rebel. Life starts when you want it to start. Yeah, definitely.

We're joined by a very exciting guest, someone we've both admired for a long time. She's an award-winning journalist, an author, an absolute hero on Instagram, and she's a bloody power lifter. It's Poonabelle! Welcome! Hello!

I feel like we need a Glaxon or something or like exactly thank you we need um look at us all in our summery outfits you have an excellent code by the way you're looking great thank you thank you fabulous this outfit doesn't usually come out this early in the year I know but it's scorchio it's like 28 degrees yeah yeah we're basically in India we're basically in India we're basically in India how do you feel about that phrase Indian summer because I'm always like

it's not though is it it's like an Indian day yeah it's an Indian day it's a day of an Indian day it's like an Indian spring yeah it's an Indian spring

yeah but this co-ord makes me feel like an Indian Uncle G so but I really like that oh my god

you've literally taken me back to one of those like these Bollywood films where like Uncle G's. So I really like that. Oh my God. You've literally taken me back to one of those Bollywood films where Uncle G's on a motorbike and he's using... All of those listeners, you can't see what she's wearing. She's wearing like a zebra print co-ord, like shorts and chins.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're rocking it. Thank you. You're like the weird friend in a Bollywood film. Yeah, thank you. Because I have two sides to me and one is like quite femme

and this is when I'm in uncle mode uncle gmail oh I love that and also your it's not henna but it's a tattoo but it's like a

is it like a henna pattern you would say or no it's derivative of a henna pattern but I have a lot of tattoos okay that are hidden by my co-ord

right what a tease we said we said that we were going to get a tattoo and I said it's got to be someone by. We said that we were going to get a tattoo and I said, it's got to be someone by my mum. We said we were going to get a joint tattoo. It's like a brown girls do it to you tattoo

because we just have had so much fun making these podcasts. It's marked such moments in our lives. And I said to her, if we get a tattoo, I absolutely cannot die before my mum because she'll bathe my naked body and she'll see the tattoo

and she'll be like, she's going to hell. Yeah. Yeah. So now I have to. What if you get one on the inside of your mouth? That would you do that? She'd be able to see that. No, no, you get it right inside.

So anyway, you can see it as if you like lift it down like that. I get a lot of mouth answers. You'd have my name in the inside of your mouth. I love Raveena. Anyway. At what point in your life did you say like, what age did you feel the most confident or are you the most confident in this moment? I would say I'm the most confident now. I mean, I think that if I'm retrospectively, it was definitely when I was a child, but I wouldn't have known it because I didn't know anything different. And I would say that when I noticed that starting to taper off

was probably when I was about maybe eight or nine. Like when you're just sort of quite aware, you know, you have like aunties who comment on, you know, oh, your skin is so dark or your body. Or you're hanging out with your male cousins too much. Yeah. Yeah, they sexualize you. Yeah.

But I think before that, I just felt like I was just limitless, you know, like which a lot of young kids do. Yeah. So I would say that from that point onwards, it did feel like it was just a slow kind of diminishing. You know, I definitely was not a confident teenager. There are diaries in which I've sort of just written like this really like angsty, like a lot of angsty poetry alongside the angsty poetry is like oh my god I'm just so ugly you know no one's ever gonna love me or whatever and then

I don't think I was particularly confident in my 20s and 30s I just didn't know what the fuck was going on and 40s was when I could say I definitively felt like on my 40th birthday that this was so far the best version of me because I could kind of fully appreciate how much I knew how much I had and most importantly I think um just how important other people's opinions were which turns out that they aren't yes yeah yeah yeah I do I do feel there's like a fire in all these girls and society likes to just expunge it and like put it out you know and then maybe at different points in life be it in your 40s or in your late 20s certainly my 30s and however old you were 15 summer of summer when you were 15 that it comes back again and then it and then it wavers you know some days it's huge I think most of these

years that you're trying to figure out who you are, where I was very reckless, like drinking a lot, sleeping around quite a bit, not really knowing who I was and not having a solid group of friends, like kind of floating from group to group because I was so out of control about who I was and who I wanted to be that there was nothing stable about that. But I still look back at that time quite fondly because I was like, that's when I actually learned stuff about me. Yeah, I think your 20s, I mean, my 20s for sure were similar.

You know, I felt like I was just drinking a lot. I was sleeping with people and dating them. But I think that being really truthful about it, it was kind of who was there as opposed to like consciously going oh this person's going to be great for me or I really fancy that person or whatever and so I think that on the one hand yeah I think if you're being compassionate towards yourself you can say that you know that's supposed to be a time for experimentation and so on but I kind of

feel like if you don't end up figuring it out and you don't end up working out that actually okay maybe I shouldn't be doing everything that everyone else is maybe I should be a bit more considered about who I go home with at the end of the night I feel like there is a real possibility of just feeling really lost within that yeah and what I noticed like a lot of what happened to like you know friends of mine and you know, I would say to a certain extent myself is that you then just end up looking for those answers in places or other people. And I don't necessarily know that that's always the best thing to do. But I feel like in my age group, for example, at the moment, you know, it's such a, like every decade that you kind of move into, there is such an enormous shift that happens that's like made up of, you know, where it is that you want to, or you think you should be in life, like looking back on what you have achieved

or the things that you haven't achieved. And you might get super sad about that. And I think figuring that out and navigating that is super important because I do see women my age you know I couldn't say to you oh hey like 40 is like the best decade and you know you'll become your most powerful self because that doesn't always happen for everyone and I do see people who are really lost within themselves and they they don't know who they are they don't have any like template for what it is to be a woman in your 40s and if you're a south asian woman in your 40s i think that that becomes even harder because we just have like when i look to my mom's generation like it's just such a specific type of person and i just don't really see myself in very much of that

yeah that's interesting so my mom actually had me at 40. Yeah. And so in my head, I'm always like, 40 is the age where like, cool stuff can happen to you. So like, but it's weird how we mark those moments. Like, I remember exactly

what I did on my 30th birthday. And I remember exactly what I did on my 20th birthday. They were like, big moments, like transformative. I was like this, I put loads of pressure

on the decade to turn as if I must also turn. I must also change yeah and i'm not sure really i have i don't know i don't know if i have because then also people how do you ever know you changed yeah from year to year from five years to five years how what are you marking as being like i look in the mirror now and i see a different past i would do you feel like yeah it's it's i would i it's a really good question i usually usually use an event or a scenario and think about the way i would react to that event or scenario.

Oh, interesting, yeah. So that same thing happening to me at 22 or 23 versus at 34, how I react to it, how I feel about it. Have you got an example of a scenario that you can share? Dating would be a really good one. I never dated in my 20s, but I can put the hand on the Quran and say if if I dated in my twenties, I'd be insecure. I'd be really not confident, constantly second guessing because dating, as you both know, is fucking tough. People ghost you, people leave you on read,

people do not respond. It can be quite hurtful. And I think if I dated in my twenties, I'm not saying it would destroy me, but it wouldn't have been great. You wouldn't want to keep doing it. Oh, absolutely not. And it's only in my thirties. And you're so right. Both of you, it's like you turn 20 and you're feeling, ah, and then you turn 30 and you're feeling, ah. I turned

30, I had this party and I was quite indifferent towards this party. I invited all my friends, groups that just didn't know the other group existed. So I spent the whole evening just, are you okay? Are you okay? A bit like a shit version of a wedding I never had um I technically did have a wedding but it's not the wedding I wanted anyway and then like when I turned 40 I've decided I'm not gonna have a big party I'm just gonna I'm so excited about your 40th what are you talking about I'm gonna have like lots of mini parties oh with groups can I come to all of them yeah great absolutely but but it's like I don't know about you but 20s to 30s I feel like I'm much more confident and I know my skin and when I meet women in their 40s they're like some women and then they've interesting they've only been white

they're like it only gets better so I'm looking forward to yeah. Yeah, I mean, definitely. What I would say is in my 20s and 30s, I think that my view of things was really narrow and I didn't realise it. In your 20s or 30s? I would say both. Okay. I would say both. I would say it was very much, you know,

like let's say, for example, if you're talking about like dating, right, or even like stereotypes. So if, for example, you know, if you're dating men, when a guy like goes to you or when he behaves a particular way, number one, I would always take that so personally as in it's something I've done. And number two, like just being brought up with the idea that like men are really simple and they're really transparent and what you see is what you get and then I think in my 40s just realizing that that's just not the case and whoever it is you're dating you know men or women everyone is like going through something and if something doesn't work out the way that you want it to it doesn't mean that you can't examine your own behavior in that I just don't think it's as clear-cut as like someone else has rejected you and now you have

to carry that burden and examine everything. So many women feel that rejection. I speak to so many women in their twenties and mostly thirties, because I'm in my thirties. And it's like, I'm telling my girlfriends, it's not you. I mean,

sometimes it is them and I'm like, I will tell them, but it's like, it's, it's this idea of rejection. Yeah. It's something we place so much value in it as a society, as women. Well, because it hurts, doesn't it?

It hurts when you think that, like, not everybody's going to like you. But you have to come to terms with the reality that that's life. Yeah. But sometimes it's not, it's nothing to do with you and it's all to do with them. I mean, it's a cross-examination. But it's still rejection, isn't it? Like, whether it's about them or you, you're still getting somebody who you like not message you back like that hurts it just hurts and it's okay but it's also okay to hurt yeah that's the other thing like I wish I told my 27 year old self is like the painful

moments are the ones where so much learning happens and actually if you're coasting quite happy yeah I don't think you're doing much learning like I don't I think you're like everything's kind of fine yeah I so I dated this guy this was a couple of years ago so this would have just been after I turned 40 and um and so I I'm I do both monogamy and non-monogamy so this was a non-monogamous relationship and basically this guy was being like really um you know when they're being like kind of evasive right in terms of messaging you and I just said is everything okay and he just said look I just don't really know how to say this but basically he said that he just was not sexually attracted to me okay and I'm not gonna lie I felt like I was gonna throw up it was one of the worst things I think someone no one has ever said that to me

before and I'm not saying that because I think I'm hot shit I'm just saying like if someone has thought that they haven't said it as directly. And I remember sort of talking to a friend about this who was in her 30s. And I think she thought she was trying to help. But she was like, oh, this happened to another friend of mine. And it absolutely crushed her and all of this stuff. And I was just thinking, I do not want. I know that my heart feels quite broken.

And I know that this really sucks. But there is absolutely no way my life is going to be or my my perception of how I look or how attractive I thinks and 30s to be able to deal with that. Because when I sort of like got over him telling me that, which was in the car park in Richmond station. So what did you say to him? I just said, what did I say? I just remember being so shocked. And I just said, I don't really know what to say to that. And I said, has anything changed? And he said, I don't know.

And then because he couldn't come up with a reason, I just said this, and I can't believe I said this, but even though I was really upset, I just said, this is just yet another example of how men put the onus on women having to figure out their shit for them. I love that you thought to say that in that moment. I'd be like,

I hate you. I would never have thought to say that in that moment. I'd be like, I hate you. I would never have thought to say something so articulate back. And I just said, I'm not figuring this out for you. You know, this is your shit. And he was like, I know, I know. And I'm like, well, I'm glad we agree on one thing. In that instance, would you, I mean, looking back now, did you want him to tell you the truth or did you want,

well, his truth, or did you want him to tell you the truth? Or did you want, well, his truth? Or did you want him to lie? Because I, in my 20s, oh, fuck it, I'm not going to lie. I don't think I'd ever want, like, yeah, would I want him to lie? Yeah. I don't think I'd want anyone to say that to me ever. I don't think I would. And I actually would much rather it in an email or a text message.

Or just say, I'm not that into you. I found someone, there's someone else was that date one? if we're dating no this was like about three months after a lot of sex three months

after sex oh my god that guy's fucking tapped in the fucking head you're sexually attracted to me because you got hard and you put it inside me and you came

bitch that's what you need oh my god I thought this was first date no no this is the one I dated For three months

No Oh What is wrong with men I've made the decision After fucking you For as long as I needed To fuck you Yeah

That I no longer Want to do that anymore But I can't think of A better excuse than I'm just going to go With the attraction thing That feels solid That feels like a smart

In Richmond Station Of all fucking places To be honest I did go on a date I did go on two dates With this guy once And both dates I like epically snogged him Because snogging was fun and he was quite a good kisser.

And then he asked for a third date and I messaged him and said, it just doesn't really feel natural. And I was like, that's a ridiculous thing to say. You said that to him? Yeah, because obviously I like snogged his face off for those two dates solidly and gave him all the signals. Why did you change suddenly? I was bored and I think maybe I was just like snogging him because it was fun. And I just, I don't know. off for those two dates solidly and gave him all the signals why did you change suddenly i i was bored and i think maybe i was just like snogging him because it was fun and i just i don't know

like i was a bit attracted to him but i just i didn't want to take it any further and sometimes you can't really pinpoint the reason why you don't want to take it further right did you felt off did you snog him to try and like figure it out like hopefully that sometimes sometimes you force it yeah sometimes you're like yeah maybe this is the thing you're going you keep on talking you're like there must be something here and you're searching

for the tongue within the snog and it's like you're literally putting your tongue down their throat looking for that connection and it's always together

come on what I find fascinating is that twice I've heard this men have said to women I don't find you sexually attractive and it's like if I didn't fancy a guy

and think about how many we're all hot how many hot men there what hot women there are the ratio of hot women to hot guys men usually are butters anyway right

we should all be going around saying I'm not fucking sexually attracted to you you fucking fish and no one would be mate you know what I mean and no one would be but we don't say that

women are so fucking polite you fish I love that I don't know where I was going with that I don't know where I was going with that I think you're reminding me of a sardine yeah you're a fucking anchovy

go fuck yourself yeah but like how many like below average or average guys do we see that catfish are and they're a bit okay and we put up with it

like how many times have we said to them oh I'm so sorry I'm not sexually attracted to you like I'm really pissed off now yeah okay let's talk about sex ladies

let's talk about sex, ladies. Let's talk about sex, ladies. Sex in your 20s v. sex in your 30s v. sex in your 40s. What's going on there? 20s, horrendous and sloppy and quite drunk. And not sloppy in the good way. Swappy is such a girl. No, where are us pussies here? Swapy is such a good No where else Pussy is here Just very much Never really thinking

About whether or not My pleasure was part of it Are we still in our 20s Yeah yeah In 20s Yeah I just I dated a lot of I dated actually

In my 20s A lot of South Asian guys Like predominantly so Because I went to A uni that had A predominantly South a lot of South Asian guys, like predominantly so, because I went to a uni that had a predominantly South Asian community. Are South Asian guys quite sloppy? I'm joking, I'm joking, I'm joking. I feel like that is, I don't even think that you could say that.

I just feel like it's not even performative, it's just a nothing. It's just kind of like no one really knows what they're doing. Yeah. The concept of a woman's pleasure is completely non-existent. And also I think because we were going out loads like, you know, to clubs and time that I had sex in my 30s, oh, sorry, my late 20s sober, was just terrifying because I was like, I don't actually know what I'm doing. Your 20s sound like my 30s, but we'll get to that. So sloppy 20s.

Yeah, sloppy 20s. So I would say that I then met my, so my late husband, I met him when I was 29. And it was the most amazing sex I've ever had. Like it was, I think the first time that I ever like experienced an actual orgasm from another person. Wow. He was just incredible. And I just, I don't know whether I should say this story.

Okay. So he had an enormous cock and I just remember. Girth and length. Not so girthy because girthy can be scary. But I just remember in the first like few weeks of us like sleeping together because we hadn't, we were sort of waiting for the results of like our sort of sexual screening test. So we. Your STDs? Yeah, yeah. Oh wow, you guys are so. We were very, yeah. we were waiting for the results of our sexual screening test. Your STDs? Yeah, yeah.

Oh, wow, you guys are so clean. Yeah, he was very responsible. But I just remember... He sounds like a gentleman, though. I just remember, because normal condoms wouldn't fit, and I just remember saying to myself... Normal condoms wouldn't fit? My God, I'd love that to happen to me.

Like the XXLs. So I have a sister who's, she's four years older to me and we don't really talk about this stuff with each other. And I remember I met her up in like Tottenham Court Road and I just said, look, this is really embarrassing, but this is the situation. And she basically just ran around with me

to Tottenham Court Road trying to find condoms that were like big. Can you get XXL condoms? Yeah, you can. You can. I did not know that. We might use them in my relationship. Yeah.

Look at you two and your big cocks. Ruthina. And that was like an amazing experience. But then when I sort of like started dating again in my, I would say like this is on the other side of like, let's say 36, you know, like 35, 36. It was different because I didn't feel like I had to be like blackout drunk to have sex which I did in my 20s I wouldn't say it was necessarily amazing but it but I I knew more and I knew how to make myself feel pleasure in that situation

and I would definitely say like going towards my late 30s um yeah it just kind of got like absolutely amazing and I think it did because also I just broadened my horizons of what I wanted to experiment with what I thought um I had wanted to do before but maybe hadn't had the confidence to what about now in your early 40s it's amazing okay yeah so it's just um i would say that it doesn't if i am not feeling it with a guy i don't feel like i have to have sex as a requirement so the confidence within that is great and when i go on a date if the guy is boring i will leave after a drink whereas before i just used to waste so much time and money and money just humoring them um so now if I'm not feeling it um and the thing that I feel and I don't know

how you guys feel about this is that for me it's it's a critical understanding that connection with a person is necessary for me but that doesn't mean that you want to get into a relationship with every single person you meet and no one seems to understand that about casual sex yeah and that has been I think the biggest learning for me yeah yeah what about you babe what's sex like in your 20s versus 30s god I mean I think all the casual sleeping I did really was in my 20s because I met my partner when I was 28 so I did like early 20s sleeping around like 19 19 to 23 which is like yeah messy drunk I was at university sleeping with everyone I'd sleep with anyone who would want to sleep with me to be honest because I was just discovering sex

and I was like you want to sleep with me let's go and so I just slept with whoever was around and was up for it and then I had like a few like longer like three month four month flings because I was like those are the partners that could make me orgasm so I'd stay with those guys yeah both of them I remember from university being older than me like in their final years when I was in my first and I'd be like well you know what you're doing and this is great but then never wanting to take it too far and then meeting somebody and being in a relationship for five years and that ending at like 26 and then having a period of shagging around again but that time again I think I just did the same thing I think I had like bleary-eyed drunk sex with a bit more I

was like I had a bit more like choice like in it I think like the early stuff I was like well I'm here now or like this is just the way I imagine all my dates should end and that was definitely how I did it I rolled like that like I basically if I went on a date with a guy whether I thought it was boring whether I thought it was interesting whether I even thought it was attractive it would always end with a snog because I was like I have to get something out of it I had to at least like get that validation that I'm attractive and you know I'd say like seven times out of ten I'd have sex yeah that's crazy actually isn't it it's crazy you know the statistics of that whether you're feeling the baseline or getting ready for bedtime feeling full of attitude

or embracing gratitude when you want to turn up the loud speakers or happy just being a chill seeker. Radio One Dance. Radio One Relax. Flip your vibe with two streams only on BBC Sounds. Is ageing scary for you? No. Is aging scary for you? No, I think that it's only scary if you view it as a diminishing of yourself.

And I think it's really important to understand that as you get older, like I think that society basically tells you a lie. I think that I have a huge issue with how society depicts or even worst cases just doesn't depict at all, you know, women of a certain age in particular. And I think that because there are no real role models or pathways mapped out for you, as well as, you know, this sort of rhetoric that you're told about like fragility and that, you know, getting older rhetoric that you're told about like fragility and that you know getting older means that you can do less and all of that stuff I think that yeah of course there's like an enormous like fear narrative around that and especially for women you know if you grow up in a society that tells you that so much of your worth is held in your looks um why yeah why why would you look forward to getting older because all you can see is the reduction of And I think when you can kind of flip that on its head and just go,

actually, that's kind of bullshit. So for a number of reasons in that these are just things that we tell ourselves. That's not actually true. Like I'm 42. I am physically the strongest that I have ever been in my entire life. So this is not where I expected to be. I think you can carry me. I can carry both of you

that is the best fucking answer ever have you always felt this way though have you always felt this way no I would say that um a big part of that was so when I was in my late 30s um for a number of different reasons I basically started to do competitive weightlifting. So it's called powerlifting where you kind of lift it like your heaviest weights. And that I think really overturned how I felt in my own body. It overturned like how I felt, let's say, particularly with men. And I'm not just talking about like sleeping with them or dating them. I'm talking about like being in a professional meeting with them. It completely changed what I thought about my physicality so I feel like I really sit in my own body like exactly the way I should be whereas before I felt that I always had

to shrink like I had to take up you know the least amount of space and so on is there a point that you could imagine achieving or getting to where you thought this would be the point I'd be happy forever? No, I think that fundamentally the whole point of life has changed and evolution, and I think without it, there's just no point to it. Interesting. And your idea of happiness always changes. What was acceptable in your 20s, 30s, 40s might not be acceptable in your 60s.

But there's also that kind of you would never know, you'd be ignorant of it. Like I was just going to go back to 15 year old Robina at Muslim summer camp. Like she was fucking happy. She was joyous. She didn't know all of the stuff was about to happen afterwards. Yeah. She'd be missing out.

But in that moment, she is. She was the happiest she'd ever been. She was like prom queen at Muslim summer camp. Like how can you describe it to me? Were you prom queen at Muslim summer camp? I didn't have prom queens, but I was like head of the beavers or whatever. Oh my God. I love you, Romina. I love you so much.

I love that the head of the beavers is the equivalent of you being a prom queen. But I love that. And no one is going to take that away from you. Thank you. No one is going to take that away. I'm so happy for you. We always do this, by the way. We always ask each other other and not every guest but

i think it's especially fitting given this episode if a 42 year old porno could go back to any age in your past to give advice what age would it be and what would you say oh so about sex life relationships so many i would just say probably when i was about maybe 16, I think. And so I went to quite a predominantly white school and I just felt like I was so unattractive and that no one would ever fancy me. And it was because I wasn't white and I didn't have blonde hair.

Yeah, we talk about that in our show. Yeah. And also I was like, can I also have a boob job? Because I had double A boob cups. Boob cups? I don't even describe that. Here are my boob cups. They were minimal.

And I think that I wish I could just go back in time because I think that especially around that age, and I think especially if you're in an Asian family, you just don't have much softness around that. Especially, I think, from the women who are older in your life. There's no lightness of touch in our community. No. It's just, it's almost like for them, and I kind of get it, you know, especially if you have immigrant parents, they're just like, well, did you die?

And if you didn't, then that's like, okay, well, you had a good day then, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. die and if you didn't then that's like okay well you had a good day then right yeah yeah the idea of like grappling with your identity was just so not in the consciousness of them at all almost like a privilege yeah yeah i kind of wish even though i have an older sister she was at university so i was kind of at home and just kind of trying to figure it out and i just wish that i could have told myself that it's okay and you're kind of amazing and you just feel this way because there's just not a lot of people around who look like you and they're not on TV but they're there and you're going to lead this like really cool life and basically

you're just going to think that you can do anything and be anything and date anyone and do whatever it is that you want and there's so many options open to you it just doesn't feel like that right now babe it's going to be okay. But also when you tap into the South Asian scene a bit more, at any level, at any age, even now, us doing this and us meeting other Asian women, we're like, whoa, we're all so cool. There's so many of us that are cool.

Because if I go back and I was like, I was a dweeb and all the other Asian kids I knew were dweebs. Really, they were all dweebs. And now I'm like, well, we've all just had glow ups and now we're amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah ups and now we're amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. This is where we'd usually have the shagging arts jingle, but we've received a message that we want to treat with sensitivity. And we'd like to just flag that we're about to discuss pregnancy loss. So please do switch off if this is something that you can't handle at

this moment. Hi ladies. Love the podcast so much. I'm regularly laughing out loud on my dog walks now. I hope you can provide me some advice. My husband and I have unfortunately had two miscarriages in the last six months and have started trying to conceive again. Obviously this is a heartbreaking and devastating experience to go through. However, we are determined to have a family. Sex has become so loaded and heavy now since our loss and trying to conceive again has added another layer. Do you have any tips as to how we can continue with our normal, great sex life and take the pressure off? I love my husband very much and enjoy sex with him, but at the moment it feels

like there isn't much that is less sexy than sex when trying to conceive after pregnancy loss. This is a topic I'm sure is experienced by many women, however, is rarely discussed. So any words of wisdom would be so appreciated. Thank you so much for sharing that kind of very deeply personal story. And we hope that you're feeling okay and looking after yourself. That you're kind to yourself. Yeah. And like you are number one, right?

So you've got to be kind to yourself and you've got to love yourself. Yeah. And I hope everything works out for you just exactly as you'd like it to. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it, this one? Because my initial reaction to that is, like with anything, and I'm not saying this is anything because obviously she's experienced this loss twice. The moment it becomes loaded, the moment you give anything any pressure it stops being fun it stops being fun and you give you give it the power yeah you're giving it the power but

like I mean you're in your head and then you're not you're not in the moment you're like it's to achieve a bigger task or it's to achieve a bigger goal yeah and so it took me a year to get pregnant a year and it was a year of hearing all my other friends get pregnant and thinking it wasn't going to happen for me and I had the flow app and I was doing all that like really you know really obsessive stuff around the app that I have now deleted and will never use again because I was doing the ovulation strips I thought I was doing everything and I wasn't getting pregnant. And I would have friends call me up and say, I'm pregnant.

And I would find it so difficult to be happy for them because it's so complicated, fertility and wanting to have a child and being so desperate to do something. And it totally took the fun out of sex for me too. So I can completely relate to that aspect of it um and I gave up I gave up I was like okay it's not happening for us it's not happening for us so is that when you started to have fun in sex yeah we just went back to having fun and something about that and you don't obviously like you're not you might not conceive in that moment it's not even

about that it's just about reconnecting in a way that you remember with them yeah and then remembering that sex was fun with them because it sounds like you had a good sex life so my advice is to drink alcohol but that seems kind of bad no but i think you're right or do something that was like in the freeing early stages of having sex but i think you've hit this hit the nail on something it's like the goal at that moment shouldn't be to conceive the first step is to enjoy sex with your partner with no pressure. Like I've never, I've never sort of tried for a child. So I don't know if this is the right thing to say, but I can imagine it must, especially like when you're trying, it probably just feels like everything's in limbo because you're just waiting. And I feel like the idea of just putting

the rest of your life on pause, I think, adds to that pressure. It probably just makes, as you guys were saying, just everything so loaded. The thing that just sort of sprang into my head, which is actually not really to do with sex, is this thing that I think Esther Perel was talking about, about desire, like how you see desire in your partner. And it's not actually to do with sex at all it's seeing them do the things that they really love doing or that the thing that like gives them a lot of joy and I would just say that what kind of occurs to me is that when you're trying and when you're so focused on this that other stuff just like kind of drops away yeah so maybe it's just like you

know I would say are you still are you both still doing the things in your life that you really love doing? Are you kind of a part of each other's lives so you can witness that joy that it gives the other person? Because that stuff can be sexy as hell and it doesn't have to be so heavy and like weighted down with things. But I can totally see how that lightness goes out of the window when you're focused on such a heavy goal you know that has like so many different there's so many different outcomes and you want such a specific outcome to it I just that would be my take on it yeah I think my advice is if you if you can psychologically disconnect with the pressure and the outcome because the more you have sex with that goal in mind the more pressure and you're going to put on yourself and your partner,

the more loaded it's going to be. And ultimately, sex is fun, right? And you are sucking the fun out of that. Yeah, and I'm a big advocate for mutual masturbation. I think that's a really nice thing to do together. If you're thinking about just reconnecting and just being like, we're doing that together. Try a few things that you might have never done sexually before as well that kind of might reset yeah yeah also

look you know you've had two miscarriages and you're probably a bit grieving of that and take take some stock take a break take some time to like you know you know feel the pain of that because obviously it's it's sad that that happened and it's okay to be sad and it's okay to sit in that for a while and then just like finger yourself in front of him i bet you he'll love it and so will you thank you so much puna we usually we usually do the shaggy auntie dilemma just the two of us but it's so nice to have your perspective and your yeah you are just as wonderful as you seem on instagram which might be a creepy thing to say. We love your Instagram. Really?

Yeah, we do. We've been trying to get you on as a guest since season two, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The fact that you're finally here and you're badass fucking cord. Thanks, thanks. Finally. Thank you for having me. Honestly, I love you guys.

We love you. We love you. We love you a lot. You know, like every time you're on the feed and I'm it just I don't know what you're even gonna say

but you just make me smile aww yeah okay that's the kind of effect that you have on me you're like you're very like warm

and also Instagram's full of such a-holes and you are like not one of them and vapid a-holes as well I think if you're somebody listening right now who maybe finds Instagram a bit depressing

follow Pruna because she gives me joy. Just follow Pruna, actually. Unfollow everyone. Unfollow all these other dickheads. And just do a Beyonce. Well, Beyonce has zero followers. She's not following anyone.

She's not following anyone. Is she following Pruna? She should be. Thanks for putting in a word. Beyonce, you heard it here. But thank you so much for coming to our show and to Brown Girls Do It Too

yeah we love you big fans we love your work we love the way you make us feel good vibes good vibes thank you

I mean I've had so many people say to me about you guys oh I just want them to be my friends and I was like they don't want to be your friends we do

we do want to be their friends well we met like they don't want to be your friends we do want to be their friends well we met you properly at Mira's event didn't we yeah yeah who's what Mira is 62 doesn't look a day older than and again this is another thing that we shouldn't be seeing doesn't look a day older than 50 but like what I'm saying is she she just has this energy and this elixir of youth and just like you and I think like the two of us, right? Yeah, but she's kind and she's accepting and she's approachable and relatable and that could stay with you until your 80s. And she's always done things her own way.

Yes. As both of you are as well, which I think is really important. As you are too. Thank you, thank you. As you are too. Thank you for coming on Brown Girls Do It Too. Thanks.

That's all for now. Thanks for listening. If you have any thoughts, questions, or dilemmas for the Shagany Aunties, you can email us at browngirlsdoittoo at bbc.co.uk or you can send us a WhatsApp or voice note to 079681822. Bye. Take time for yourself with BBC Sounds. Let's take a moment to come into the space. The music and meditation podcast with Neo. If you're curious about meditation or new to it, this is the perfect place for you.

The mindful mix. And ultimate calm with Olafur Arnott. for you. The Mindful Mix. And Ultimate Calm with Olafur Arnott. Exploring music that can bring complete peace of mind. Listen on BBC Sounds.