Brown Girls Do It Too - Lonely (So Lonely)

Episode Date: July 19, 2024

What's the difference between loneliness and being alone? When is it good to be lonely? And what happens when Poppy and Rubina are left alone with their own thoughts?If you ever feel lonely, BGDIT is always here for you. If you’re over 16, you can message the BGDIT team via WhatsApp for free on 07968100822. Or email us at [e-mail] you're in the UK, for more BBC podcasts listen on BBC Sounds: bbc.in/3UjecF5

bbc sounds music radio podcasts this podcast contains strong language and adult content it's why everyone loves us i mean there was that one person who left a review on a well-known podcast platform saying quote this whole show is an insult to anybody in the entertainment business she secretly loves us she totally does this is a podcast about sex. At least it started off like that. Now we talk about everything. Everything is sex.

And sex is everything. And that includes our mistakes, our heartbreaks. And our hot, hot, hot, hot, hot takes. I'm Poppy and I feel lonely when I'm sitting in the same room as my parents and I can't connect with them yeah hear hear

I'm Robina and I feel lonely when I have two meals in a row by myself the first meal's fine when you know when you eat by yourself

and you're just like I can have a really obscene bowl of pasta or watch in front of the TV and no one can see how much cheese I put on my pasta so that's fine

and you can eat like a bit of an animal yeah exactly like snortling yeah yeah yeah but the second meal I'm suddenly like this isn't right

Groundhog Day Deja Vu I'm like I can't be doing this alone I need to be sharing why am I doing it the second time again exactly

in one day and why am I eating pasta again yeah and this cheese is boring now exactly I don't want to do this

I don't want to do and like why am I eating like a pig this is awful yeah I want someone there to like watch me and talk over food

and help me have a respectable diet I love how we've zeroed in on your eating and like can't connect with my parents yeah fuck that do you sometimes feel like that with your with your dad there are situations where you're you're just like you don't even know who I am I feel like that way a lot by my parents and my brother like I feel like I don't even know who I am. I don't know if it's that I feel lonely with my parents, but I feel like maybe they're so far away from me. And so actually that's what it is. It's a distance. Yeah.

Like it's funny. I feel like they're my family and there's some sort of element of connection there. But there'll always be a connection, right? Because you always have this weird umbilical cord to your family, no matter how much you love them or hate them but I sometimes think about this concept of loneliness like seven percent of people suffer from chronic loneliness did you know that because it says it in the script right there seven percent seven percent and I think maybe the gen z like you know people who grew up with social media not us because we're like analog and digital

you're surrounded by people but then yet you can feel lonely right I actually had this theory about social media that people turn to social media when they're bored yeah or lonely lonely and I think a lot of it's a lot of it's that it's like the people who are like constantly online are probably quite lonely because they're like looking for social media it's like it's it's there to go out and I actually this is so lame, but on my WhatsApp last seen, it's always online or I've just like last seen two minutes ago. So when I'm either filming or with my friends, I don't look at my phone. I have a very unhealthy relationship with my phone. I think my telephone makes me feel lonely and it alienates me more and more and more people.

Like if I'm in a room, we have rules, you know, we have rules in our house about two spaces where you can't have phones. Just two rooms. And it makes such a difference because then you're just like actually present rather than you think you think what you're doing is being really smart and like being productive because you you're there with your partner you're watching tv you're also on your phone maybe doing an email and what you're actually doing is buzzing yourself completely out and isolating yourself from all of those things you're neither engaged in anything and we're totally replacing real life connections with social connections. And it's like, you know, I'm so guilty of this.

So I need a metaphorical slap first. But you know, when you have lunch or dinner with a friend and your phone's on the table face down, it's like, why does your phone need to be on the table? It's so disrespectful. It's so like, why? Who is messaging you right now that you need your phone on the table? Put it in your bag. Put it on loud. If someone calls you, I don't mind if you's a horrible tick it's like oh yeah and and my

friends do it we all do it like we're in engaged but I'm like and uh during the Glastonbury weekend uh we I went away with my friends um to have like a nice wholesome weekend and honestly I forgot my phone for a long period of time but then there was was this urge to check it. And I'm like, why? I'm having an amazing time here. What is going on in there? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think what's really good is if you just let your phone run out of battery regularly. Let it go to zero.

Let it go to zero. Are you crazy? Stop worrying about it. When it gets to 16%, I've got fucking battery anxiety. Are you like... Let it go to zero. Let your phone die and then be like, it's dead. I don't know.

I was thinking about today's episode. I was thinking about when do I feel lonely? And I think I've got the opposite problem. I don't feel lonely. I want to be alone more.

I want to be by myself more because I don't think I'm ever truly by myself with my thoughts, thinking, processing because I'm always, like most people, go, go, go, go, go. Over stimulation.

And the moment I stop, then I have to think. And I think that is why, honest to God, when I'm on my own, I listen to party music or like. House music. Like fun party stuff, because I think if I listen to anything soulful or real or anything with depth or texture or life it just I just think about I'm not saying I have existential crises but like it really makes me think about me and who I am and what I want and am I happy and what's all of this existential shit that you don't need on the 69 bus right whereas if you're just listening to it like a yeah yeah yeah you know what I mean and so And music has that amazing power to completely change your mood and put you in a different place.

And I think I've been living a life for the last 40 years of my life. As you're putting yourself in the party. I've just honestly... That's absolutely fine. I think it's fine to live your life as if you're at the party the whole time. I think that's great.

But I don't know. But there's a balance that needs to be struck, right? Because I'm going to be 40 next year. So I need to maybe... I mean, there's a lot of things I'm thinking. Yeah, but you're going to be 28 until you're 55. So you've still got like 15 years. You know what? I love you so much and you're absolutely right yeah also like I just don't think the party should ever stop anyway because like the party like if you're someone who brings the party and enjoys the party

which I am I'm currently pregnant so the party is a bit different for me but like I think there is there is something to said like about all those people that just like regularly enjoy life I think you've got such a nice vibe man I wouldn't try to change the world one weird thing though but being pregnant is like remember i am never alone like literally never alone i have this thing that regularly reminds me that he's here by kicking my bladder or squeezing my intestine somehow you probably can't do that where he is but that was really he's trying he's reaching for that intestine biologically incorrect there but um but like you know, that's really weird. And being pregnant is incredibly lonely because you walk into a room and even if you walk into a room with a bunch of women and they're not pregnant, they don't understand what's going on with your body.

They don't understand how you're feeling. They don't understand your hormones are completely different. And when you're on your period and other people aren't around, I think it's the same thing. You know, you feel like really, really socially isolated. There's loads of things you can't do when you're pregnant. You can't go drinking in a pub you can't go I took my child right I've been I've been cycling him around where I live for like months now and we've been looking over and there's a massive ferris wheel in the town that I live and I've been like cycling him

around being like we're gonna go on that ferris wheel we're gonna go on that ferris wheel one day we're gonna he's a ferris wheel ferris wheel finally we had friends come visit the weekend and they wanted to go to the little theme park near our house because they've got kids. And I was like, Ferris wheel, we're going to do the Ferris wheel. Psyching ourselves up, psyching ourselves up. Is he tall enough? He's tall enough.

We're going to be fine going on the Ferris wheel, getting to the front of the queue of the Ferris wheel. Excuse me, you're pregnant. You can't go on the Ferris wheel. I was like, I'm really building this up for my child. And so somebody else had to take him on the Ferris wheel. So he went on the Ferris wheel. I didn't get to go.

Now the limitations around you, you can't socialize in the same way. Like it's incredibly lonely being pregnant. I didn't realize all this. And only when you meet other pregnant women, sometimes you feel like they might get what you're going through, but your pregnancy is so unique to you and your body and like your culture and like things that you grew up with that you think are just really, it's really hard.

Like I actually do feel more lonely when I'm pregnant. Wow. And you'm pregnant. Wow. And you're slower. Yeah. You know, you're out of breath. Even just talking is making me tired. I never considered any of that, actually. Yeah.

It's like you are a bit of a social outlier when you're pregnant. Well, I think this is a really important topic. Not only because lots of people experience loneliness, but because I think we're all really terrified that being lonely is like this big negative thing. It's really natural to be lonely and feel alone because we're all in our heads, even though we're in rooms with people. I think that's key. And also because it makes you relate to other people because everyone has that same element of thinking, am I the only person in the world? Yeah.

I think also like you could be all by yourself and feel lonely and then be all by yourself and feel alone and need it. They have two very different meanings, don't they? Two very, very, very different meanings. And don't you, you've said this earlier, but like you really need to be alone. I need to be alone right now in my life. Yeah, absolutely. I'm gagging for it. I need it so badly.

And you're, because you're moving out, you're going to get your own place. Yeah, I'm getting my own place. And just my whole life I've just been always around people, know we're Asian big family big family I've like shared a bed my whole adult life with my sister up until I was 28 isn't that insane and then with your cousin sister cousin sister ex-partner I completely agree I think the same thing like when I get the bed to, it's like a really fucking beautiful thing. There's like a toddler in my bed or a man and it's like interchangeable. If I get like 10 minutes alone in the bed,

I still praise that loneliness. So I know we're talking about loneliness and it's really important to talk about loneliness. I remember back when I thought I was going to be a doctor like every other Asian person, I volunteered in a hospice. We are constantly surrounded by our 55,000 cousins and aunties and uncles

and they're talking and shouting and loud and this person would have obviously they're dying, it's palliative care and they'd have their children come and visit and they said something so sweet to me they said I really like spending time with you because I don't feel lonely when I'm with you I was this old lady

and I just suddenly understood what she meant there and then like you know it's that classic thing I'm in a room full of 100 people and I just suddenly understood what what she meant there and then like you know it's that classic thing of like I'm in a room full of 100 people and I'm still lonely yeah yeah I definitely in that last the 10th year of me and my ex-partner breaking up I think we definitely felt quite lonely from each other very you know we'd sit on the same sofa sleep in the same bed but completely disconnected because we knew deep down that it was done yeah so that was probably the only time in my well and that's a lie that's that's probably the only time recently where I've really felt loneliness acutely it's funny like feeling lonely in a relationship I think that's

really like like lots of single people feel like they can own their loneliness and be like I'm lonely and like part of it's like self-chosen loneliness and I can be empowered by it. But if you're in a relationship, people just would never believe that you could be lonely. They're just like, sorry, you've got somebody that you've been with for ages that you really love. Like, how could you possibly?

I think I've had like periods of loneliness in my relationship where I felt like he doesn't get me or like he doesn't understand where I'm coming from. Again, being pregnant. He just can't fucking get that. He will never understand it. So I should stop trying. Like he's not going to get that no he will never understand it so i should stop trying like he's not gonna get he's never gonna be able to understand what that's like

well you could always talk to him but yeah i absolutely you could absolutely be in a relationship with someone and feel completely lonely yeah what is the antidote to loneliness what do you do in those moments when you're in a relationship and you feel disconnected i guess talking right yeah and like finding time to reconnect you know relationships are work yeah you have to put the time in everything is fucking work everything is work well I think like relationships work but when they're easy work and when they're easy you put in a good shift you're like yeah exactly sometimes I think with you as well because we like have these big gaps or we don't speak and I feel like I want to always see you for like 20 minutes before we record a podcast because I want to reconnect with you and be like, hey, remember me?

And then we can do this thing. Well, that's why I gave you the updates the other day about squirting. Yeah, I know, that's what we do. But that's exactly how we do it. We're just like still messing each other up. Yeah, but that's us reconnecting

because in the time that we haven't spent together, we drift. We're busy. You're busy. You're doing loads of shit. I'm doing loads of shit. And then we have to come back

to each other. That's what I don't do with my mum and dad. I'm trying to, actually. I'm trying. Well, you don't come back to them. i'm trying to connect but i don't have the language i mean i literally don't have the language so it's hard but i'm trying with my mom more my dad is a lost cause i find with my parents and this i've just felt this today

is i was with my mom for 48 hours and in that 48 hours my brother called her twice and then i was like does he call you every day? And she was like, yeah. I was like, oh, that's why you've got a really good relationship with him because I call you once a week. Right. He calls her every day. And in the car, it was really awkward because we were driving on the motorway. And she put him on the speaker.

He was like, hey, mom, just checking in. He's got his kids in the background. And he sounded like a really nice human being. And I don't really feel that way about my brother right now. But anyway, he was just like, hey mum, how you doing? Just checking you're driving on the motorway. She's like, yeah, I'm fine.

I'm just driving. And he was like, okay, cool. And you're with Ruby? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, give them my love. And I was like, and I'm on the speaker being like, like that?

And I'm like, what is wrong with me? I was like, that's my brother. What is wrong with me? I actually think I've got problems. The disconnect that you feel. Yeah, but it's weird because I'm not yearning to reconnect yeah I'm like yeah as far as way as I can be from you as possible it's better for me but this is the interesting thing

right like obviously with my mum and dad I do want to reconnect but what if you don't want to reconnect with that person yeah what if you want to keep that distance what if you want to be because for you sometimes that distance is like the thing that lets you be you the second you draw yourself into their lives more you're like I'm suddenly having to do all the shit that's like not me I used to be so close

to all my cousins but I would not have this podcast and I would not know you if they were still in my life like sometimes you do need that distance and space

from people to be you and it's so complicated with the people that you really love it's a bit like you know when you've got that one friend

who's got lots of drama and you love them and you're going to be there for them. But there are days where you're like, I've actually got quite a lot of drama today and if I add my drama

to your drama, I'm going to implode. And so I'm probably going to need to protect myself from you. It's a six hour kabu kushi kabu come fucking marathon and I don't need that right now.

And you're just like, no. This is why in my friendships I look for simplicity because my relationship with my family is so convoluted. And also like, I do think like there is a level of loneliness that can be good for you.

Yeah. Because only when you know what it's like to be truly lonely, you also then know how it feels to connect with someone. And you're open to that stuff because you've actually been so isolated. And you have that space to figure out who you are and your boundaries and what you feel uncomfortable with and how far you're willing to go. I sometimes think about my mum and my dad a lot because I think they're so lonely. I think my parents are really lonely too. How did I say love each other? I think my mum is actually really lonely. And when

she's with us or her grandkids, then she feels she's like a totally different person. My mum, if we all got married, I think she'd feel less lonely. But then she's going to get five fucking grooms that don't speak Bengali. So she'll basically so she'll just go back to being lonely again but she has no friends and that must be hard when you don't speak the language that's a real deep sense of loneliness and like even

even within our own family like my I speak the best Bengali the others are fucking atrocious like obviously we can communicate with our mum but I really and my dad

you know what we are we're like the fucking Addams family we're just weird we're your mates mate where are your friends every single family is the Addams family that's just weird where are your mates mate where are your friends every single family is the Adams family every single family yeah everything is so um unconventional

and dysfunctional and tricky yeah and so anything that you think like actually that's one thing that really does make me not feel lonely is when I'm like if I think my family's messed up I know everyone else I look at on the tube I'm like you got shit at home you got problems like nobody's the only person with problems at least that's something that connects us all there's like this idea that when you're alone it's a very physical thing

it's like you know you're eating by yourself like I said or you know going to a movie by yourself but that's not the same as like loneliness loneliness is like

this inside inability to feel like anybody is going to get you or connect with you which I think I have actually quite regularly when I think about it if I have moments where I'm just like no one feels this way yeah I'm the only one or nobody understands who I am I don't think I sit in my loneliness enough to get to where you are I need to do that first to then get there do you

attach shame sometimes not you but do you think people or society usually attaches shame to loneliness? Yeah, because no one's saying like, how are you doing today? And you're like, I'm actually feeling a bit lonely. No one ever would say that. Like feeling like being lonely. You say you're happy, you're great, you're in a good mood. And being lonely would be like, well, that's on you. Yeah.

Because that's your failure to be able to try and like socialise or be out there. And I think that's bullshit. Also, I think we should probably be open and say that we're lonely and not hide it right yeah yeah because we all want to be seen as like really social busy kind of hanging out with loads of people having lots of friends being being really busy like there's not a night I need to be in you know that kind of vibe yeah well and I think um social media fuels it insta stories is a really good example I was going through this phase where I was like, I have to look busy. I have to look like I'm doing stuff.

But I don't have to do any of that shit. No. I don't have to do any of that shit. It's 21st century loneliness. Like that idea of you're busy. You have an active social life. You've got friends. You've got your diaries full.

But you're not really connecting. And it's like this facade that we live where we feel like we've got to do all to do all these things but actually who are we doing it for we're doing it for ourselves I had this thing I remember when I was living in a house chair and I just come out of a relationship and I was incredibly lonely like I was lonely and I was alone I was both of those two things and I was just like kind of coming out back into the world because I'd just been a bit of a social recluse because I was trying to like get my head back because I felt like so um troubled by the breakup that I was like I need to like sort myself out I was like coming back into the world but one thing I remember doing is like coming back home from work clicking myself on putting the radio on

because I didn't want to feel I didn't want to hear the quiet of like my life had become quiet yeah like there was nobody else there and I needed the radio on all the time and I feel that now actually sometimes when I come home and if I put the radio on if I put music on or I try to keep busy yeah and actually what I do now is like really focus I'm like no no radio quiet do you do that now yeah yeah I'm just like just just be alone in your thoughts for a bit and think about things that you need to think about because you need to start putting them into places that's why I have insomnia because the thoughts I need to have in the daytime where I need to be alone and no sound no phone no whatsapp no instagram no emails no rubina no one no no no they all come at night and then i can't sleep yeah and that is that's always been my problem

because you know you need to give your brain time to process things and processing only can really happen when you don't have stimulation yeah well you're not processing something if you're listening to a documentary on the radio or music or tv or listening to your friends but you're not processing we should go on a silent retreat together. Yes. One weekend, right? Once this baby comes out and like it's on its own.

Me and you should just go for a weekend. We wouldn't last 12 minutes. Yeah, but I bet you, you know, like apparently it does wonders to your brain. It's just like a silent retreat of just like actually being alone with your thoughts.

Yeah. And becoming to the point where you are now like lonely because you're like, I haven't spoken to anyone and I actually really need that. I bet the return journey is really beautiful. Yeah. Because you're like, I'm going to say really meaningful shit to you

instead of just chat shit all the time. I just constantly need stimulation all the fucking time. I read this amazing article years ago and this philosopher was saying he puts an hour a day away for just thinking wow i've definitely had sex like fully had sex with somebody and been like i feel completely lonely i feel nothing for you i feel no connection while they're inside even though you're you're literally connected to me physically physically in my brain, I'm thinking all these other things that like have nothing to do with

you. Or I'm thinking, I can't wait for this to be over. I need to get out. Or I'm thinking, should I go a long way tomorrow? Why have I ended up here? I think that last year with my ex-partner, definitely sex was just, it was just something that you did. Like we again felt disconnected, lonely, like it wasn't the same. But I suppose when you see those signs, you kind of know, well, it's either the end or you need to talk about it. You know, that's kind of it, isn't it? I had really good sex with my partner the other day.

Yeah, and I was thinking that because we go through little phases where it feels like we're just having sex to like do it. Do it, yeah. But the last time we did it, it was like it had just been a while. And I was like, oh my God. And it was like the snogging beforehand it's like he's upped his game it's like he's been kissing someone else has he I don't know no I can't imagine him doing that but you know when I was like whoa yeah shit and but like I think

that's fine in relationships you are not going to be snogging like that for 25 years yeah of course you're gonna have peaks and troughs and it's really nice when you reconnect except you have to make the journey together you have to both want to do it you know you both need to be doing all the time for each other for each other for each other and that's a relationship it's like pushing pushing pushing even our relationships like that have you ever used sex because you're feeling lonely and you need the validation yeah I actually think that sex is validating still like I still think that I use it now in a relationship and when I was single like when I was single and I was going out and I was getting drunk for me sometimes a good night would always end with me bringing someone back then I'd be like I did everything you know I did

the socializing with friends I hooked up with somebody at the end they came home one night stand done I'd like I'd productivity the shit out yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and I like achieved but like sex is always about being like I'm still fair could have a relationship if I want don't want one yeah validate validate validate

bye yeah yeah yeah that's exactly literally that is 90% of me dating it's a validation I'm like I've got game I'm hot

it's funny it's jokes I'm fucking you I'm not even coming and like I'm not and actually the validation is from the chat and the

it's not even from the sex most of them are shit anyway do you know what I mean like and also I'm probably shit too right And like, I'm not. And actually, the validation is from the chat. And it's not even from the sex. Most of them are shit anyway. Do you know what I mean? And also, I'm probably shit too, right? Like, they don't know my body. I don't know their body. We're drunk. Like, it is what it is.

But like, but I don't feel lonely. But I do do it for validation without fail. Yeah. But I think part of validation is because you're feeling like you need somebody to make you feel good. And I think that's fine. But that's rooted in some loneliness. Yeah. Because I always say the same thing, like even in my relationship,

if I start to feel like, oh my God, he doesn't find me attractive anymore. Oh my God, I've been wearing the same jogging bottoms for four days. Oh my God, I haven't shaved my legs. And I'm just like, I have these inner thoughts where I'm like, is he still, does he still fancy me? Yeah. And then, you know, when you like have sex you're you're validated because you're like oh he clearly does made him come definitely does but I think because I'm

really confident a lot of my validation comes from me first because I feel like I can back myself yeah not on everything obviously like I'm still a work in progress obviously but like genuinely I'm like I back myself so I'm getting most of that validation from me yeah I don't I'm not getting it externally but of course I I need it from you I need it for my friends I need it from my family I need it from the guys I fuck so but I think it's that delicate it's a balance isn't it because if you're constantly looking for external validation which is what Asian people do like what will people say you've got to act like this I think you can go down a really dangerous road so yeah

it's a balancing act for sure but weirdly having lots of one night stands and getting fucked all the time does not cure loneliness no no it doesn't

it doesn't if you're lonely you're like you're never going to find the answer to that but I hate it when people say to me guys say to me

oh you're just fucking people aren't you lonely and it's like it's exactly what I want to do right now and actually the end goal of being in a relationship is your idea oh, you're just fucking people. Aren't you lonely? And it's like, it's exactly what I want to do right now. And actually, the end goal of being in a relationship is your idea and your end goal.

But it's not my end goal. And it's not a lot of people's end goal. And this idea that if you are just constantly dating and fucking people and talking, that you're filling a void. And some people are doing that and filling a void and feeling lonely.

And some people aren't. There's no one size fits all. In the exact same way that some people in relationships are fucking lonely and some single people are really lonely. Yeah. Like it's not, it's not like the binary thing. Exactly. Yeah, totally.

Like, cause I hate the idea that we as society look at single people and make that presumption. Yeah. We just do. Like we do. We're just like, they must be really lonely. Yeah. Cause that must be really hard. Especially with singleption. Yeah. We just do. Like we do. We're just like, they must be really lonely. Yeah. Because that must be really hard. Especially with single people.

Yeah. When you messaged me last night and I knew that it was so important to have a friend like you in my life is because you can show me that I'm not in my relationship because I'm scared. I'm there because I want to be.

Yeah. Because I can look at you and be like, yeah, I could do that. I can exactly do what she's doing and be as happy as that. I'm not here because I'm settling. I'm here because I want to be. And that's why's why if you're in a couple don't just have friends who

are in couples because all of you could be in those fucking relationships just because you're scared yeah leaving yeah you need to see other people who are single doing other shit have a diverse group of friends have a diverse always make you make the right decision for your own life because you look over and you'll be like that looks cool i could do that that looks cool i could do that but i'm choosing this this yeah I'm choosing it I know so many couples sadly who are in relationships that they just they should have been off in like years ago but they do it because mortgage and kids and house and it's easy and and it's just those people are so lonely and I feel so sorry for those people and then it and then oh yeah I mean I can't imagine how difficult it must be this conscious uncoupling

and all this other shit but I don't know if people are a generation and above live for themselves. I know you and I do. Not you and me, but, like, we often live for other people, don't we? And that's what makes us lonely because, you know, and I would have had that life, that sliding doors moment if I was still married to my ex-husband. I'd have three kids by now, the Mercedes, a council job, and I'd be so lonely because it's not me.

And I just, in an alternative universe, that poppy is having that life. And I just, my mind like boggles at that prospect of the life I could have had versus being in this brothel with you. Honestly, I'm just like sliding doors moment. It's like one of the best things I've ever done in my life. And for you, you did it for you. Yeah, and I did it for me.

And it took a lot of, and like a lot of women, brown women, I think, especially because of the stigma and the taboo to be able to say, I can't do this. I have to walk away from this. Like it takes a lot of guts and courage and then your whole community shit on you, but you fucking do it anyway. And it's just like, oh, it's the best. It's the best feeling. It's so freeing. My mum has this line when she's angry with me, if I haven't called her for a while, or, you know, if we feel a bit socially disconnected from each other, she'll be like, you're just really busy living your own life and doing your own thing. And I know that's her way of being like, and you don't involve me in it. But in my head, I'm like, who else's life should I be living? Your life.

No, thank you. Because her whole life she's lived for her husband. And she lived for other people. Yeah. And she thinks living life is about kind of making lots of sacrifices for people. And that's how they were raised. That's how my mum is like literally sacrificing theology, which I think really, and it really impacts women, brown women, I think way more than men because men have some degree of freedom, right? Whereas women, especially that generation, they're just trapped.

I feel like I look at my mum and I'm like the life you could have had the things you could do and I feel lonely from her because I want to do shit with her but I'm like I don't know what to do with you because I don't know what you like what are your interests

what do you like you just talked to me about marriage but I don't know what your favourite colour is I don't know what books you like I don't know do you like to go to the museum like

my mum's read because the Quran like that you know like case like yeah it's yeah it's really hard and if I try to engage her in anything my mum's favourite book is the Quran like that you know like case like yeah it's yeah

it's really hard and if I try to engage her in anything and I have done stuff like I took her to this Mira Sayal play at the National Theatre like years ago

she came out and she was just like it was fine this is it I just spent 50 quid on tickets for you and dad to come to the thing I don't know

I don't know what you like I don't know who you are and you don't give a shit about who I am you just want me to be your daughter and you just want me to look at you as a parent and if that means we sit in silence while watching goggle box that's fine with you yeah it's just not fine with me i want more i want more so i think a lot of women and maybe south asian women more maybe are

in relationships where they do feel lonely but they don't want to leave because they think they'll feel even lonelier or like one loneliness the single loneliness trumps the like in a relationship loneliness yeah definitely I would say so

they would rather have a bitch mother-in-law and a shitty husband than and ten kids and ten kids and being and look like

they're really connected to a community but in their head just be not there at all. Yeah, and that's why I think all these aunties that go around and weddings and this and family, they're busybodies, they make themselves busy but I think they're so lonely

because I just don't think they know who they want to be because they've not had that space to figure out who the fuck they should be because their whole lives they've had someone tell them this is who you need to be and that's now all they know. Yeah. And it's so funny

you said that when you took your mum to Miroslav like I tried to do something nice with my mum and she was like no I don't want to it's shit I don't like it

and then you feel really you don't get that validation and you feel rejected and you're like I asked my mum if she wanted to go for dinner with just me and she was like

nah. And you're like I can't make you happy there's nothing I can do and my mum's like I can't make you happy there's nothing I can do and my mum's like you can't make me happy getting married and I'm like

and scene but on the one hand you're like let me help you out of this loneliness this depths of despair but then when you give them a lot

when you throw them something when you give them something they reject it but they only know that loneliness and maybe they're addicted to that loneliness and that's their existence

and that's their life I think what I know that my mum needs just based on this conversation she needs someone to call her every day my brother was on the phone for 35 seconds

hi how are you just checking in okay good love you bye I can do 30 seconds every day you can do 30 seconds she doesn't let me go off the phone

in that same way she'll be like and another thing I could definitely call my mum more for sure when my mum calls me do you know what I say

I don't say hello I say what do you want in Bengali in Bengali kita kita what because every time my mum

she wants something she wants something and that is the basis of our relationship and that is why I feel lonely my mum is often asking me if I've

taken something of hers she's like I can't find this iPad did you take that I'm like oh are you a thief I know That is why I feel lonely. My mum is often asking me if I've taken something of hers. She's like, I can't find this iPad. Did you take that? I'm like, are you a little thief? I know.

I've been taking that. One time I took her laptop charger, never died it down. She was like, have you got my things? I'm like, no mum, I don't always just take your things.

I do sometimes take her things. I swear you're like always in her clothes and you're always wearing her shit. Like, and her lipstick. You're always taking her stuff mum. It's true, I'm always taking her stuff. You're always taking her stuff. And her lipstick. You're always taking her stuff, mum. It's true, I'm always like this.

You're always taking her stuff. You took her car, got a speeding ticket. I know. She thought I was going to get arrested. It was all really intense. I think my mum calls me because she wants to fill her day with me. But actually, she's lonely and she doesn't know what to do with that time. So she's like, I've done the cleaning, I've done the cooking.

I've fed my husband, I've fed my children. I'm alone. Sorry, I'm lonely now. What else could I do? When I came to your house, I was surprised the TV wasn't on because in my house, the TV's always on because that's how lonely my parents are. They need like 24 hour news. They need like noise in the house. And sometimes my mum calls me and the TV is so loud that she's like shouting at the other family.

It was like, just turn the TV down. Like what's going on here? Turn it off, maybe? Yeah, exactly. But I think, again, I know we did a whole episode on intergenerational trauma, but I think in an Asian household, the reason why there is no such thing as silence is because everyone then has to confront their fucking reality. Yes, exactly.

So if you're just screaming and shouting all the time, you don't have to think about your life and where you are and like whether you're depressed or happy or what's going on my dad cannot come into a room with the TV off like he'll be like TV on and like because he watches like 24 hour news and I have a two year old

I don't really want my two year old to be watching like you know crazy wars in all the countries so I'm always like can we switch it off to something else

and he was like well it's CBBs or something you know like he just wants it on all the time all the time because then it means like there's no lull

in the silence for us to have to fill to like fill with any kind of conversation yeah we can sit there in silence that is incredibly lonely yeah but silence i think when you can sit in silence it can also be beautiful oh yeah but yeah there's two sides to that there's two sides to silence for sure because they're like awkward because then you know when you have a silence with somebody who you know you should be trying to do have a connection with but you're just like I got nothing fucking to say to you I got nothing to say to you yeah that's why and when you open your mouth to speak to me I worry because I'm like what do you want from me where is this going I used to judge couples that would sit in restaurants and not talk I used to really judge them but now I'm like they're happy sitting in

silence but I would find that so odd and alienating yeah yeah yeah but I'm like, they're happy sitting in silence. But I would find that so odd and alienating. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm like, maybe they're just fine. But they do actually also look miserable. Yeah, but sometimes in a relationship, you are just miserable. Yeah. Like, I just don't think that the fantasy we have about people in couples, there's so much pressure for people in couples.

It's just like, calm down. It doesn't have to be like that. It can just be sometimes we do fucking hate each other and we're eating dinner because we're just hungry yeah and we don't need to talk and we're angry today i remember um i remember i was on a date with this guy who you know all about and we were in this restaurant and we were like the perfect couple everyone loved us everyone was looking at us the waitress loved us we were feeding each other we were like the perfect couple and i always think back to that moment I know exactly what restaurant it was and it's like everyone around us must have thought

they are in some they are in love or they're falling in love or they're amazing and they're gonna have a great and it's like that was probably one of my most toxic no it was the most toxic relationships situationships don't say relationship situations I've ever been in my life and it's like this facade that you put on and like we had like miserable couple here that couple weren't talking and and it's just all bullshit

like it's all to be honest if I'm out and I see one of our couple friends putting it on like a lot of physical affection

and like I'm not saying arguments and it's going on because that's just not it's just not real like the truth about like a really good

long time relationship is you might put your arm yeah yeah yeah the truth about like a really good long-term relationship is you might put your arm around each other or hold hands like a little bit yeah and because you're like comfortable with each other

and there's like a real stillness in that yeah I was um I think my ex-partner taught me this like I'm massively into PDA and he isn't

and with other couples I would definitely have like a little bit of a we touch and we kiss yeah yeah yeah but it was so I know that now,

but like at the time I was just so insecure in it all. But actually the most stable, loving relationships, they don't need that. It's not a fucking competition. They're not posting pictures on Instagram every five minutes, let me tell you that. That's when I think something's up, is when somebody starts putting like a lot of their personal shit up.

I'm like, oh, what's going on? Yeah. Leave him. somebody starts putting like a lot of their personal shit up i'm like oh what's going on yeah leave him that's my answer to everything really leave it and burn shit down yeah and the end you've reached the shaggy auntie's centre. Want advice you can't ask your real aunties for? Like, how do you ask for what you want in bed? Not sure which hole is a goal? Where do anal beads really go? Have you been faking orgasms your whole adult life?

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Shaggy Aunties are not medical professionals and bear no responsibility for the consequences of your own actions. Right, I will read it. I know I may not be your target demographic, a white 17-year-old girl. By the way, we do not discriminate on who listens to this podcast like anyone can. It's free. But I love your podcast. Good. I've just finished school and I don't have anything to do at the moment,

so I have been binge listening. Currently, I'm on La La La. And the other day, my dad questioned my new obsession, asking me what I was listening to. And before I could stop him, he turned over my phone. I swear it happened in fucking slow motion and said, oh, I've listened to that. It's great. Oh my God, that's so fucking wicked.

That's actually great. That's wicked. I don't quite know how to feel about my 50-year-old Scottish dad listening to this, but at least he's well informed for my mum's sake. Oh, very good. But I have a question. I currently feel the same as young Poppy and Robina in that I feel like a bit of an outsider in the dating scene. And I was wondering how you managed to put yourself out there to begin with. The situation I'm in is through no fault but my own. Whenever I was asked out in the past, I would always say no, even if the guy was hot, because morally I believe relationships in schools to be a publicity stunt now everyone just stays clear I think I took the whole no I

don't want it thing too far any advice with love from a person who doesn't want to be named as my dad will take the living piss out of me nice oh that's um that's such a nice message but also I I want to ask this listener why why do you think it's a publicity stunt? I think being 17 is really tricky. Yeah. And being at school is also a really complicated thing. Yeah, you know what? I forgot her age for a second.

And I think what she's saying is when you're in a relationship, what you just said earlier, which is you plaster your fucking relationship on Snapchat or TikTok or whatever the 17-year-olds are using these days. And then that, to her her feels inauthentic. But also, babe, if hot guys are asking you out. And you fancy them. And you fancy them, just say yes.

Just say yes. Just don't take any photos. You don't have to click upload. No, you don't. But I imagine she's probably like, I don't know what it's like to be a fucking 17-year-old today. I really don't. Do you know what? I definitely had a period when I was like 15 or 16 and like

I remember going to a house party when I was like 15 and the 17 year old boy who everyone respectfully said was like quite good looking came over to me and was like

I like your legs and I was like mortified I couldn't believe that I was like I can't I can't this is too much no because I think you're in that really tricky space when you're like

at the end of your teenage years yeah where you're like I thought I was a kid and I thought that was happening and I'm gonna be I mean is that bit happening now and am I ready for it yeah and I think it just sounds like you're maybe not ready for it and I think that's okay you should do what feels good for you if a hot guy asks you out say yes don't start think don't don't weigh yourself down with these bigger lofty kind of it's a publicity stunt and what will people think and it'll look fake like fuck all that shit because you have your whole life to worry about

that yeah like you're young be free like have a zero fucks also you can definitely date someone at school and not tell anyone oh that's quite a fun thing to do if you're like listen i just don't really want anyone to know and i don't know just be like let's keep this a secret but she can just keep it a secret because I want to see where it goes you know that's exactly what Taylor Swift did with who with that footballer with that guy

with the footballer like they kept it a secret for a really long time and now the whole world knows and now the whole world knows but like but they needed that time because they wanted to judge it together

and like so it's like everybody looks at that relationship now and doesn't see it as a publicity stunt they're like there's actually something authentic going on there because they took the time

just to be themselves before they made it public what i would also say to this listener is that you don't have to wait for other hot guys to ask you out you can ask them out what you need to be doing is you need to be giving signs and signals that you're ready and that you're back in the game so like you could start with like giving someone eyes or a lingering look or a bit of flirting like letting them know that you're back on you know and it's 2024 babes you can ask someone out I really liked the thing that she said where she said I feel like a bit of an outsider in the dating scene and was wondering how you managed to put yourself out there to begin with I think that is a really interesting question like the moment that you you stopped caring about getting rejected and so you

put yourself out there and for me it was getting rejected meant multiple times yeah like I remember fancying many people growing up and giving them all those clear signals and them not giving it back and that was the moment where I was like well after the first heartbreak or the first time the person you fancy doesn't fancy you back you get stronger and stronger and stronger and you're like cool I can do anything and also I want to say to this 17 year old listener I'm gonna be nearly 40 next year and rejection is probably one of the best things that can happen to you because when you get to my age and you're dating now you are having so much fun because you don't care you don't give a fuck when people say no sometimes they hurt most of the time they don't

but it's like the best feeling so you should pluck up the courage ask someone ask someone out if they say no great move on to the next yeah and the path to romance and getting into a relationship is you have to kiss a lot of frogs right gotta kiss a lot so get out there i think you can just if there was one guy that you had asked you out that you said no to that you're like now thinking actually in the canteen just be like do you remember what that day that you asked me that thing and I said no well I'm saying yes now she should buy him a like a carton of juice or something from the maybe a love hearts love hearts you just give him a love be mine yeah and on that note listener good luck we hope your dating endeavours

take you to wonderful places yeah O2B17 again though I wouldn't want O2B17 I used to wear skinny jeans converse

and a waistcoat because I thought I was in the libertines I love waistcoats waistcoats are in now yeah I know they're back yeah they're back anyway

if you'd like more advice that you shouldn't follow feel free to drop us an email on browngirlsdoit2 at bbc.co.uk. Or if you have any sort of conundrum, problem, dilemma

and you need our help, please text us on 079 68 100 822. Thanks for listening. Brown Girls Do It Too.