Brown Girls Do It Too - Miss Lover Lover

Episode Date: April 14, 2023

Poppy and Rubina channel Carrie Bradshaw to ask: what is love? And where does it go when a relationship ends?Have a message for Poppy and Rubina? If you’re over 16, you can message the BGDIT team via WhatsApp for free on 07968100822. Or email us at [e-mail]

BBC Sounds music, radio, podcasts In life, the only person you can truly rely on is you Everyone else will eventually let you down, even us Like, we could tell you we'll behave and we'll only use the most appropriate

language. But guess what? We'd be lying. We're going to use the strongest language the BBC allows. And we could say this is a sex podcast, but don't worry, we'll only talk about things you can listen to out loud when the in-laws are visiting. But guess what? We'd be lying again. We're going to talk about themes of an adult nature from the outset and throughout. Whether you keep listening or not is a decision for you and only you to make. This feels like that Penn Badgley like Netflix series. You. Yeah I mean

I have literally been binging that for the last week. Oh my god I do love his VA though he was like you you made me feel great. I'm like I watched you from the window. I mean I'm a tree. This is Brown Girls Do It Too. A podcast about the sex lives of British Asian women. The fantasies. The failures. And every F word in between. I'm Poppy and my love language is food.

I'm Rubina and my love language is when somebody holds my hand. Aww. I really like hand holding. I do I really like it I like like it when you hold my hand as well do you sometimes you hold my hand oh but then you always cuss me out and tell me my hands are really ridiculous I always do that I always like your hands are so stupid I'm like okay thank you why are you so ridiculous I always have this really pointed moment where I hold your hand and I'm like, in my mind, I'm like, oh my God, her hands are so tiny. And then I tell you and I'm like, why are your hands so tiny?

Production, have you tried holding her hands? They're fucking weird, man. No, basically, I've got, I'm hypermobile, right? So my hands can like be squashed completely in half. I know! Two very good things. One, I can get to the bottom of a Pringles tube all the way. And the other thing is at university. I can see it now, it's fucking weird. Yeah, I can get to the bottom of a Pringles tube all the way.

And the other thing is at university... I can see it now. It's fucking weird. Yeah, it's weird, right? At university, they used to call me anal fisting Ruby. I've never put my hand

up someone's bum, but I could. If I wanted to get fisted, I'd definitely choose you because you're... Slip right in. You'd slip right in. It's tiny.

And it wouldn't hurt that much like radio peace sign when i got in there oh my god what was your nickname anal anal fisting ruby i lived with a lot of posh white people and they needed to have these kind of banter lad names for each other i thought you had another nickname ribena ribena was like the name that people call me at school. So then when I got to university, I was like, hi, I'm Ribena, like Ribena before they could say it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Fair play. Well, I mean, I say food is my love language, but there are so many actual love languages. Have you done the test? I've never done the test, actually. I've done the test. What did you come out as? I'm a third words. Words of affirmation.

And I'm a third acts. Acts of service of service yeah so like doing the dishes for you acts yeah for each other yeah i've got i've actually got my results somewhere third third words third acts present giving very low very very low maybe like a third of each it feels like a test that's not really defining okay it's like a third and a third and then there's like the others are lopped off into like i know i like i I like. I just like touching, snuggling, kissing. I like it when I'm out publicly and somebody like puts their arm around me because I'm really not like that with other people at all. Like I'm a bit like, do we have to hug?

Whereas when I do anything with you, you're always like, let's hug. And I'm like, I don't know if that's essential. You like hugging, no? Yeah, I like hugging, but I like hugging when the other person also feels like they're in it. They like it. Do you not feel like you're in it when you're hugging?

You know when you hug somebody and they're like so wooden with you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's, oh, they're the worst. They give you that like cod slap on the back where you're like... Yeah, yeah, those people can... But hugging is not always something

that you just consider consensual. Some people don't like you to be in that physical space. Yeah, yeah, well, that's true. So when somebody's physical with me, I'm like, they wanted it. Okay, words, definitely. But I've noticed something. Yeah, yeah, well, that's true. So when somebody's physical with me, I'm like, they wanted it. Okay, words, definitely. But I've noticed something.

A lot of my girlfriends, they need words. You need words. You don't know it, but you need words. I don't need words. You do need words. Words of affirmation, yeah.

Sometimes I ask you to tell me that everything's going to be okay. No, not even me. You do it with your partner. You need words. You're a word girl. Trust me. Well, I do like words.

Yeah, yeah, words. What would you like someone to say to you to make you feel like they loved you? What would you need words. You're a word girl. Trust me. Well, I do like words. Yeah, yeah, words. What would you like someone to say to you to make you feel like they loved you? What would you need someone to say? I already know, actually. It'll be like, you look skinny, and, oh my god, your hair looks amazing. Are you doing me? Oh my god, you're so stylish. Are you doing me? No, I'm doing what you want somebody to say to you. Oh my god, she knows me fucking well.

That's all you are. Obviously. You'd much rather someone tell you that you look thin than for them to tell you that you look amazing. me some depth no i need that as well i need all of it i'm beauty as fuck you're thin i love you you're beautiful you're hot you're funny i need all of it give me all of it constantly every day five times a day and i don't know where it comes from in past relationships where they're just like constantly complimenting you no they don't think they do enough which is why i you know my ex-partner who's like he's like why don't you tell me i love i tell him i love him 50 times a day and which is why my ex-partner, he's like, why don't you tell me? I tell him I love him 50 times a day.

And I say, why don't you say it back? He's like, I want to say it when I feel it. When he means it. When he means it. And I was like, oh, you're so boring. I had an ex-partner who every day told me I was beautiful, which at the time I was like, I mean, that's so romantic. Yeah.

See, I would love that. And actually with like a bit of time and some hindsight, I'm like, I know. I look in the mirror every day. Yeah, well. And it's not beautiful every day. Some days. Some days it's alright. I'm never going to find it. Today is one of those days. What was really low down the list? Yeah, what was low? It was gift giving. Don't give a shit about that. Oh yeah, don't give a shit. Actually, no, that's a lie. I like little bits and bobs. I like getting bits and bobs. You like gifts?

I like a couple of bits and bobs. You little slag. Oh, I did not know that about you. You give off all this like, Poppy, I got this t-shirt from a fucking thrift store. I'm going to have a second hand shop. Oh, look at me in my Berghaus fucking boots traipsing through the bloody muddy field. I'm such a hippie. And you're like, nah, give me Chanel, bitch. Give me Selfridges perfume.

Those small things when somebody is like, I just thought of you today, so I got you this thing. You like a gesture, you like a meaningful gesture. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I was feeling a bit shit one day and my partner came back with these, like, you know, those strawberry pencils

that I like so much. Thank God you're going out with a white guy. I was with a white guy, my ex-partner, he like, this is the most adorable thing, he made piano music vouchers.

Oh, like piano lesson vouchers. Piano lesson vouchers, yeah. And then he had like badges on them. He's obsessed with animals. He loves animals. So he was going to teach you how like piano lesson vouchers. Piano lesson vouchers, yeah. And then he had like badges on them. He's obsessed with animals. He loves animals. So he was going to teach you how to play piano vouchers? No, he was going to buy me. I mean, he can play piano, but he was going to buy me lessons.

And then when he gave them to me, I loved it. And then the second thought I had was, I wish I was going out with an Asian rude boy because I'd get like a whole like Chanel perfume. Really? Yeah. The Asian rude boys I know would probably just give me a bag of weed

when I say rude boy I'm like which would be that I'd be like that's not bad I mean like I mean like a high net rude boy like a rude boy

with his own restaurant a baller a baller rude boy a baller rude boy not like a you know I actually don't think I've ever dated anyone

that's been ridiculously wealthy really wow I don't think so oh no I did one time get that teddy bear from my the mosque my mosque boyfriend and he gave me he gave me a teddy bear he was loaded he gave me a teddy bear

that was holding a heart that said special girlfriend but I was like we're 12 like this feels too much for me I mean unless the teddy bear was in like Swarovski encrusted was it just a generic teddy bear but when you're 12 you can afford a teddy bear when you're 12 and you're gift giving that feels like that feels baller actually

oh my god that's so true he's 12 and he's giving you a gift and it's like do you know when you go to like Leicester Square or like any square in any town across the country and there's always

someone selling roses and then the guy buys the rose for the girl and I'm always like that is the naffest thing I've ever seen I will never date a guy who does that buys me a rose because i'm like that's so lame so lame and anyone like it on valentine's day when girls are like posting pictures of like they're like dozen roses that they got on instagram i'm like that's lame man your partner has no

creativity i know he just did what everyone else but also uh if you buy your girlfriend roses that's your thing it's all good we're not, but you're a mug because they're expensive. So what love language comes easiest for you to give? To give. That's interesting. I love being affectionate. I'm really affectionate. I'm very like kissy and tactile.

I do a lot of gift giving. I like doing little treats here and there. I love cooking for somebody. Love pouring love into a nice meal and being like this is for you i feel like lots of things come i'm a lover i'm a real lover mr lover man you are okay so what is the easiest love language to give to a sexual partner and to a platonic partner friend well for a platonic partner friend i think it's really nice to give them gifts when they're not expecting it because they're just like oh that's nice or a card or

something thoughtful like a little do you know what you do for me i mean you're not giving me that many gifts i've not actually given you that many yeah but like that's okay you're quite good at gifts to me yeah but i yeah i am good at gifts you're good at gifts you're good i don't i don't care at getting them i don't mind i don't know i don't i like giving them but um you were good at like acts of service like when i when i need you, you've always come through. And that, to me, is the biggest measure of friendship and love. And it's like, acts of service, quality time. I don't know.

Are they sort of the one and the same? I don't know. Yeah, I guess it's like having someone's back is quite good, isn't it? Yeah, you're very, you're like, you have my back. Yeah, yeah. I have, of course, I have your back. You always have been unbelievably supportive, unwavering support. It's really nice to think about your friends in that kind of way as well.

To think about like the love that you have for your friends and how important that is. Yeah. Because it's really undervalued. Nobody really thinks about it. And actually like your relationship, your sexual relationship, the relationships that you have with people that you might be sleeping with, you put, you have to put work into those as much as you do with your friendships. Yeah, absolutely. You need to go for a drink we need to catch up i need to hear about you we can't just be like you know neglecting our friendship totally phoebe waller

bridge said friendships are the biggest romances they are quite romantic yeah like they're she's onto something because we talk about um romantic relationships as the be all and end all and then the pinnacle and yes of course they're important but actually female friendships they sorry friendships in general i mean they keep you going oh yeah like the elixir of life and when you break up with a female friend especially a really good female friend it fucking hurts you in a different way to a man fucking you up yeah and i find i've got a few friends who live like in other parts of the country that i just miss as well yeah i've got such a yearning for them that feels like I'm required love in some way where I'm just like I miss those times that we used to hang out yeah and I miss them as a person and when I see them it's the same you know we catch up we didn't we

don't have to have any fucking small talk it's like straight into our friendship but all that time in between I'm like god I just I yearn for them yeah you categorize love in different files don't you there's a love you have for your problematic mum and dad. There's a love you have for your annoying siblings. There's a love you have for someone you're seeing, someone you're dating and it's new and exciting. There's a love you have for your girls. You know, it's taking me 10 years. There's a love you have for yourself.

There's a love you have for yourself. Or there's a love you have for your job or for something that you're like really into or a film. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I love that song. Yeah. And all those different types of love, they kind of feed

you and i think i suppose the reason why we're talking about it on this episode is because i remember us talking about love in series sorry episode six of series one and we were both in really really different places i was utterly devoted to my ex-partner who i'm now no longer with and you've experienced a completely different kind of love which is the love you have for your child which I think and if people disagree with me please email us brandgirlsdoittoo at bbc.co.uk

I think the love a parent has for their child really supersedes all the other kinds of love interesting and I'm or you think that's

the most intense or the most the most intense giving the most freeing the most generous the most, I'll be hit by a truck for that. Like that is what I hear parents say. And I see it. And I'm saying that as someone who is child free and wants to be child free and who doesn't want to be a mom.

And I think that is the one love. I think I think I've experienced all the other kind of loves, but that is the one love I guess I'll never have. Yeah, that's interesting I mean I would do anything for my son and I have really deep intense love feelings for him yeah is that different to how I love my mum not as much I think that's actually quite a similar relationship there all mums say to me that they love their children more than they love their parents they love their parents oh yeah allums. And I've said it straight out. I'm going to say as a one mum, I love,

I love him. I don't know. I feel like it's really, I don't know if you should like competitor. I don't know. It's hard to have like a competition on love. Like do you love your partner more than you love your mum?

Do you love, that'll be weird. Do you love your mum more than you love your partner? Well, controversially, I actually did love my, I do love my partner more than I love my. You did love your partner more than you love your partner? Well, controversially, I actually did love my... I do love my partner more than I love my... You did love your partner more than you loved your mum?

Yeah, yeah. That's interesting, isn't it? The love I have for my mum is obligatory and I have to. It's a very different kind of love than the love... I think that's the thing. That's the thing. It's a different kind of love. But, like, OK, rephrase it and ask me...

Also, like, why don't you define what you think love means? I will do that, but to answer your question, redefine, rephrase it and ask me. Also, why don't you define what you think love means? I will do that. But to answer your question, redefine, rephrase that question. Who made me the happiest? Who has made me the happiest? Sadly, it wasn't my mum or my dad. It was this ex-partner. Who's given you more happy moments in your life.

Yeah, interesting. And I love my mum. Yeah. And I will do anything for her. Yeah. But she's not made me happy. That's interesting. We're in a better place now. Yeah. And I will do anything for her. Yeah. But she's not made me happy. That's interesting. We're in a better place now,

but I have far more unhappy memories than my family, than happy ones. Yeah. So I associate, and it's not so, it's not as simplistic and reductive as, love equals happiness.

Yeah. Because love is very complicated. Yeah. Love can also equal unhappiness. But I do see it in very simple, I see love sometimes through the eyes of a child. It's like, you made me happy. I like you.

I love you. I love you. Yeah. So it's that. I feel like it's so hard to pinpoint what love is. And we all talk about love so freely sometimes, our generation especially, that's like, I love all this shit. I love you.

Yeah, exactly. And the truth is, it's so undefinable. It's like a kind of magical otherworldly feeling that you are like, it's beyond words, that thing that I feel for you. How would you define love? It's so complex. It's impossible.

It's impossible. It's difficult, isn't it? But love is just like, love changes as well. I remember when I first fell in love with my current partner and was like, kiddy, not eating, butterflies, like all that stomach-wrenching stuff where you're just like but like you know when you're like what's going on yeah and I was so in denial about being in love with him because I was like I don't want to be in love I really don't want to do this I don't want to do this it's like really scary to be in love I don't want to have to open like let

down my guard again but then like it transforms in a relationship right because we've been together for like now for like almost eight years this year and now it's just like the structures of my spine are you i can't it like doesn't even make sense like you the shit that you say when you're in love don't even make sense yeah he's so in my body and in my mind yeah he's part of it and it's so funny you should talk about being in your body in your mind because yesterday, so it feels quite raw, I said goodbye to the flat I shared with my ex-partner of 10 years. And if you feel like that at eight years,

like you are each other and your identity becomes their identity. Your DNA, like you are so entangled. Entangled is not the right word, but like you're so intrinsically linked yeah and so I went and and because we parted ways you know quite beautifully it was mutual and there's so much love and respect there like I went to say goodbye and I had a good cry and like said goodbye and I left I left I went to every single room did one last wee in the toilet I was like yeah

there's not much going on in here we should have done something we should have put more artwork in here you know like said goodbye to the bathroom had many you know you're just like it's just like a cute little bathroom lovely little tiles and and I left my two favorite rooms the kitchen and the living room to last and I just had so many good memories of building this home and it it was hard saying goodbye and you know we were kind of reminiscing and everything had a story like the curtains had a story and we bought a lamp from a company that won't be named online that has a story like yeah and someone else is moving into that flat yeah his girlfriend is moving into that flat so you're like girlfriend yeah fuck he's just like oh my god so yeah that that

was that was hard and and that's and that was started with that sort of giddy love and was this rock solid foundational love and now it's a different kind of love because we're no longer together and he is moving on and and quite rightly so and I want him to be so happy and it's like new chapter in his life and yeah I'm embarking on this new chapter and that's a different kind of love so it just evolves and has so many different faces that you didn't even think you'd recognize and yet life takes these funny twists and turns and here but it's still kind of love isn't it still love oh my god there's so much love but it's it's also a love that comes with boundaries now like I can never really um drunk call him I would never well I will still do that still doing that but I can't ever snit and snuggle with him in the couch

because yeah appropriate yeah yeah yeah I can't do that now and I can't um yeah where does all that love go like what happens to it yeah yeah because I've had like relationships with people where it's been like very it yeah yeah because I've had like relationships with people where it's been like very intense and long term I would say like you know the longest term relationship I've had is like five years and that was like an intense yeah we were in love yeah and I wouldn't question that now you know I think the love just either goes back into yourself which is what I'm doing or it just you kind of lock it in a storage box somewhere and it feet and you unlock it it feeds into someone else the next time you're with them but I think I just it it's come

back to me and it's come back to all the people I guess who are now in my lives yeah in a much more prominent way because this is the other thing I would tell him everything you know you go from saying everything to someone every single day every thought I mean you know me verbal diarrhea like every verbal thought I had I would share with him and he was my confidant he was someone I told my secret student and not even my girls at the time I mean I'd tell my my best girlfriends but and it kind of that stops yeah and it's uh it's it's really it's a it's a strange feeling and it's a sad feeling and you kind of, you grieve it. I literally only did it yesterday.

I was like on the way to my friend Ines's, I just dropped some stuff off to her neighbours and I just was crying. I just couldn't help myself. Like in public, I just couldn't, you know when you can't stop and you're just like, I had to let it all out. I had to let it all out and it's to let it all out. And it's good. I think it's cathartic. It's cathartic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's good.

Breakups are so fucking hard. They're so, so hard. Even when you want them or even when you know that they're the right thing. Yeah. Because you're just like, well, there's many things. But one of the things that I think is really hard when you're like, but we were so good. Yeah. And you never want to believe that we were so good could ever be, but we're bad for each other. And this will never be the future. It's like, that we were so good. And you never want to believe that we were so good, could ever be, but we're bad for each other

and this will never be the future. It's like, that's actually the truth. And that's what I was saying to him yesterday when we were, you know, having a chat. I was like, it would be so good for us. It would be so neat. It'd be so good for us to be together. On paper, we're great.

But actually, we're so good, doesn't work. It's not enough. It's not enough if you're not enough for each other. Yeah. Which is why, and he said something that's quite interesting. He was like, I sort of wish that you were with someone

and you'd moved on. And, you know, if we were both in relationships, this would be easier. I was like, no, it wouldn't be. Like, I'm exactly where I need to be. And I couldn't be happier. So it's just optics, isn't it?

You think if I'm in a relationship, it's easier. And I'm going to be happier. And I'm going to be happier. And I'm going to be happier. But no, no, absolutely not. I remember actually being dumped and then going traveling, going to another country and meeting this woman who was like a friend of a friend in Barcelona.

She had this hot boyfriend. She had this cool flat in Barcelona. I just thought her life was fucking amazing. And I just came out of a relationship. So I was doing that thing where I was like, wow, like your life is so cool. And I remember we went out for drinks that night and I was like, yeah, you're so lucky.

You know, you got the set up in Barcelona. Barcelona you're both bilingual like you're both here having this amazing life and she was like being in a relationship is not a sign of success yeah no not at all it's not a sign of happiness it doesn't mean anything yeah yeah she was like she was like trust me I have problems and I was like oh yeah shit but I loved that because it was just so real you know like being a relationship is no sign of success you couldn't pay me a million pounds to be in a relationship yeah I kind of hated it when couldn't pay me a million pounds to be in a relationship. Yeah, I kind of hated it

when I got pregnant and everyone was like, congratulations. And I was like, I just had sex. Like there's no, we just do this like success thing. I'm like,

you got an A. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I had sex with somebody who wanted to have sex with me back,

which like, you know, it was quite hard for me to achieve that in my life. But I got there with a few people, my friend. It was hard,

but we're here now and we move what's going through your mind right now what have your experiences been like one extra talks

is about to get brave yes that's right Richie Brave and I'm taking the reins for the show where we delve into the hot topics that matter to young

black people in the UK what does the future look like whatever the issues on your mind this is the place for your weekly fix of honest debate and discussion. One Extra Talks with Ritchie Brave. Listen on BBC Sounds.

Brown girls do it too. Did your parents or anyone in your family ever talk to you about love? May, I did not hear my parents utter the words love to each other. And I think this is one of the reasons why it's so important for Asians, especially to talk about love, because we never heard our parents say to each other and to us, I love you for no reason. Not because you came home with six A stars for no fucking reason.

And I think so many Asian kids grow up not hearing the word love. Then our other misconception is we've only really seen it in films. Yeah. Like in the notebook and stuff like that. I'm just saying the notebook. Why do you give that look? No, no, no. I was like, well, I was like rom-coms.

I mean, it's like rom-coms. I was looking at you like, literally all the rom-coms I was fed on. It was just like my brain. There's that one, all the rom-coms I was fed on were just like, my brain. There's that one with Hugh Grant, I don't know what it is, where she's like, I'm just a girl, standing in the rain,

hoping for the boy to love me. And you're like, okay. There's like all of that shit. There's that like really great Lin-Manuel Miranda quote where he like goes and picks up an award and he's like,

remember, love is love is love is love is love. And I was always like, well, yeah, that's cool. But I feel like our ideas of love are just based on american accented people telling us what that means yeah and so we're like oh okay well our generation is fucked right so our family um came to this country with three pounds in their pocket and wearing a sari and it was like one pair of underpants yeah one pair of underpants and one suitcase yeah we got it great um I'm not uh I'm not um what's the word I'm not trying diminishing diminishing that diminishing that but so so they've come here they're they're stuck with whatever Bangladesh

India Pakistan was back in the you know in the 1970s when they came yeah they're like love I don't have time for love I don't have time for love how indulgent yeah how how privileged of you how lucky how lucky you are. You're such a dick. Yeah, yeah. They must actually think that. Sometimes I think my parents are like, oh, she's such a dick.

I always forget this and I've known you for so long. What is your, your parents are double immigrants. Yeah, so they're from East Africa. East Africa. So my dad's from Uganda and my mum's from Kenya.

Uganda, Kenya. Exactly. So your mum and dad, Uganda, Kenya, up, left, everything. Here they are. And then we grow up with their kind of like, get A stars.

Like just constant shouting and screaming and shouting. And then we're fed on, cut to, a really unhealthy recipe of just rom-coms from the age of what? Really bad, inappropriate horror films when I'm five. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But all based around like women being submissive and them not being the drivers of love. They're not choosing

who they love, but being loved, being chased, being that kind of thing. Totally. And then when you were a teenager, did you ever have like the pangs

of unrequited love? Yeah. That you wanted. You wanted unrequited love. Oh my God, it's so fucked up. It's so weird. I remember being completely

in love with this boy at school. Like completely in love with him. In my head, I'd like, we were married. I'd like fantasize all these things that we were saying to each other. This whole drama plays in your head. And you are so torn with love for someone who literally doesn't know your name. And it's so tragic. It's so teenage.

It is literally. It's all consuming. It's all consuming. It's rom-coms. It's a concoction of rom-coms, Bollywood, and not being let out of the house. So you basically, your imagination goes wild because you can't have a fucking boyfriend.

You can't secretly go clubbing. You can't do everything that other people do. No, it's true. So you're like, I'm married. But it's so true. And I spent ages fantasising about the storyline, the narrative, each scene. It was so much detail.

But it's so weird to feel love when you're a teenager, to feel love but have nobody to love. Yeah, because we've got all these fucking hormones running around our body and no one other than Keanu Reeves to give it to. I'm not going out with Abdul or David or Jason. I'm not going out with them because I'm not allowed to. So I'm just coveting them from afar in history. Yeah, but the thing is, I'm not going out with them because I'm not allowed to. So I'm just like coveting them from afar in history. Yeah, but the thing is, I wasn't going out with them.

And then wanking over them. I wasn't not going out with them because I wasn't allowed to. I was not going out with them because they didn't fucking know I liked them. Oh, there's already no way it existed. There's that, you know, where you're just like, you're like. Well, I mean, I was allowed to go to school. I had to be at school. And they just had no idea.

Also, I was a dweeb. Also, I looked like a loser. Oh my God, so I was such a dweeb. I had a be at school. And they just had no idea. Also, I was a dweeb. Also, I looked like a loser. Oh my God, so I was such a dweeb. I had a unibrow and braces and a moustache. And if somebody did fancy me when I was in year seven, they were fancying some sort of like little Asian boy. Because that's what I look like. I look like an Asian boy with long hair.

So then there would have been like a weird gendered kind of switch around there. Where I'd be like, am I straight? Are they straight? Like, who fancies you? It would have been confusing for me. You know what's so funny? When I was in school, I obviously be like am I straight? Are they straight? Like who fancies you? It wouldn't be confusing for me. You know what's so funny when I was in school I obviously looked like a smurf

and because I had such a good jawline you know I just thought I looked like a really pretty boy with a headscarf. I was like no one's going to fancy this.

I feel like also when I was a teenager I remember the first person I said I love you to was my teenage boyfriend from school and I had this idea of what love was because he looked a bit like Heath Ledger yeah from uh 10 things I hate about you I based my whole life on that film a little bit but anyway and I remember

when we said it to each other yeah like we were sitting on a park bench in you know like the rain and he said it to me and that and I was like this is the movies you know this is it this is love this must be love because he's telling me he loves me yeah but in that moment i didn't feel like i loved him i was like oh i'm with this hot guy from school this is really cool i that's the next step it's love but also that's the other thing we're so disregard teenage love if i had a teenage daughter and they came up to me and they were like they're in love i'm like sure go on babes yeah yeah yeah don't waste my time but it's like you don't know what love is you don't know what love is how could you know you've had no experience they also don't know what love is but when you're in teenager in love you're like it's all consuming

it's like i'm gonna have his baby but even when you're an adult you don't know what love is like you think you do like yes i've been my partner for eight years and we are in love and i love i love him but again i can't define it to you what does that mean he's just some bloke I live with when he had a baby like what's the deal I mean I think though when I meet uh girls in their early 20s who are like they say they're in love and I'm like okay babes do you oh no I'm like you probably could be I'm like because some of those girls in their 20s end up with those guys that they met when they were 21 yeah sure they could and they're like I'm in love and we've been together for 25 years and we have two dogs and what I would say to those girls is don't make it finite i'm not disregarding i'm like you absolutely could be in love you definitely are in love you feel like

you're in love the hormones and the you know it's all it's all flowing around freely but i'm also like don't act like this is it and this is the end and my divorce taught me that because i was like because before that i was like i was going to have the kind of love that you see in Disney films the happily ever after then I had the rug pulled yanked from under my feet and I thought you know what

there are different kinds of love you have for different types of people and you might have four main types of you know they say on average you have like three loves in your life three big relationships right so just know that it could go on forever or it could end and i've always said this to you i was like we're yet to live to 70 and prove this theory of the happily ever after thing with the monogamy

thing where you're with one person love takes work love takes work and love is hard work have you ever told somebody you love them when you didn't really? Yes. Did you? Yes. Who? When? I mean, no names. Bleep. I did because I kind of, I felt I was in lust, deep, deep lust.

Oh, okay, fine. And I wasn't in love, but actually it turned into a kind of love, but not at that time. Right. It was very intense, all-consuming love that I'd never experienced, that I was like, this is not stable. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I knew this was not good for any of us. Quite erratic, yeah.

But I felt it took over every cell of my body. I think I've said I love you during sex once. Oh, God. With somebody I was like very casually sleeping with oh no um and what was really confusing for him poor guy is that I had said like I don't want a relationship like this is quite casual like you know it's fine and like I didn't love him I was just like caught up in the moment of sex and I was like I love you and he was like I love you too and I was like I literally do not love you did you say that no I couldn't say that okay I was like, I love you too. And I was like, I literally do not love you. Did you say that? No, I couldn't say that. Okay. I was like, I just had to be like, I'm going to let this

fizzle out. Don't say anything. Love goes to him. Don't say anything. Love goes to him. And don't call him back ever again. Yeah. But, but you know, again, coming from films and movies, you see so many scenes where someone has sex and then the act of passion, they're like, I love you. It's normally the guy. It's normally the guy. He's like, just before he comes, he's like, oh, I love you. And then the girl's like, oh, it's not really the guy it's not really the guy he's like just before he comes he's like oh i love you yeah and then the girl's like oh what yeah and that's well that's another weird thing it's like saying i love you is so vulnerable that if you're the first person to say in a relationship it's very exposing it's really exposing and so you kind of want the person to say it back to you like asap or within a week otherwise it's not happening within a week

i'm dying the first time i said i love you to my ex-partner it was a year what it was a year we took us a year to say i love you to each other but that's oh it took you a year i thought i thought you said it and it took him a year to say it back to you i was like no i would not be on the scene but but that's stable love with that's the kind of love that's stable that grows slowly that's got roots you know it took a year for us to get to know each other and we said i love you on new year's eve i love you like he Year's Eve. I love you. He pressed me. It was so romantic. The fireworks.

It was Waterloo. He pressed me against this glass window. And he looked at me, deepening up my eyes. And he's like, I love you. And I was like, I love you. And then we kissed. And it was just this beautiful moment. And it felt real.

And it felt honest. That's so nice. And it felt genuine. And neither of us felt like we needed to wait. It didn't feel like a to wait it didn't feel like a game it didn't feel like oh i've got the power like it just was so honest and raw um that was a great love do you think that men love differently to women yes definitely my current partner once we were all out with a bunch of friends it was drunkenly chatting to

one of my friends and told my friend that it was love at first sight to with you yeah and i was like it wasn't for me at all did you say that no but i love him like very deeply but that's like a really wild thing to say because i'm not sure i believe in love at first sight i don't think i do either i that's really what like i was like what how the fuck do you know you don't know you don't. I was 20 minutes late to our first Tinder date. And I remember I looked really shabby. And I just come, I was on production. So I was like all over the shop.

Yeah. And I'd sunk three pints within half an hour. That is such a you move by the way. Get drunk quickly. Get drunk quickly. You're just going to be a fish in right now. Exactly. I got no time.

But then I just thought that was really interesting. I feel like. I think you could be in lust at first sight. I think you could look at people and be like, holy smokes. Yeah, which is so nice. It's so nice to ever be thought about that. I've seen you with your partner. There's real love there. You have grown up love. Grown up love. It's like grown up, like adulting love. I think there are three distinct, when it comes to romantic partners, sexual partners, three very distinct loves that I've experienced in my whole life, which is one with my ex-partner, which was obligatory, sacrificing, family, familial love. like twinkle an eye butterflies then moves on to the next stage of like we are each other's

foundation we can bring we can take on anything we are we you know we finish i won't say we finish the sentences but like like oak tree love yeah it's so it's so grounding that's why it's the structures in your spine because it feels like i feel like i could do a lot as well because i'm so loved i feel like love gives me so much confidence oh my god yes i feel like I could do a lot as well because I'm so loved. I feel like love gives me so much confidence. I feel like powerful with that love. I feel like I could walk into my day job. I could also be like, I quit my fucking job. I'm going to do something really radical and start,

because I feel like I've got the support of somebody who's out there. So the hand on the back, you know, that kind of like really reassuring thing that a partner sometimes does. I really want girls in their twenties, especially girls in their twenties to not confuse that with boring love, because that is the kind of love that I want because after that love... What's boring love?

Well, I think... It's like when you get to your 80s in your life. Well, I think the way you described it so eloquently is how I should describe it. I think when I say stable,

it's a synonym for boring. Stable. Stability means boring. Stable is not... It's not... Girls, if you're in your 20s, it's not that. And then the third kind of love

I experienced last year was all consuming sex love sex but like emotion and like it was I couldn't

almost like I didn't recognise myself but sex sometimes can be so attached to emotions like sometimes when you like come and you cry that kind of vibe is also in love

where you're just like I love you it's like I don't love you but I love having sex with you it was all consuming love it was the kind of love that sharukh wants you to have in bollywood films so those are the three distinct types of loves that i've experienced like there's like a spark yeah it doesn't spark doesn't like last whereas like like raw real love is a roaring fire that goes on for eternity wow i sound like wow you sound like a fucking mr miyagi here what's going on uh any parting on love? We've come a long way from series one, haven't we?

We're in very, very different places. Yeah. I think love is... Love is love. Love is love. I feel like it's fine for it to be undefined. And I think what's really funny is a lot of the stuff that we all chase in life is to do with love. Or to be loved.

Loved, yeah. Whether it's by your boss. Or your parents. Or your parents. You know, or like your friends. You want your friends to look at you a certain way you want to feel love and be loved in return that's from moulin rouge seriously we don't get out of the fucking room i love moulin rouge that's what she says it's like the whole meaning of life is to be loved and to love back in return yeah because let's be honest it feels really good when somebody loves you it's like the

social media like button right it's serotonin it's serotonin, it's like the social media like button, right? And it's serotonin. It's serotonin, right? It's like, you know, you love being loved. And I think it's fine to define it however you want. But what I'm saying is always remember, love changes shape, you know? It will change across your life the way you feel about yourself and the love for the other people around you. Let it change.

Evolve with love. Love-olve. Put that on a Hallmark card. Yeah, I second everything you've said I'll evolve you I'll evolve you there's not much to add to that do you love me Poppy?

I love you Raveena I love you Poppy and now it's time for Shaggy Ants you've reached the Shaggy Auntie's call centre want advice you can't ask your real aunties for like how do you ask for what you want in bed not sure which hole is a goal where do anal beads really go have you been faking orgasms your whole adult life accidentally called your boss daddy

is your longtime love not going down south for more than just the tip we're here for you yes you and you and you okay let's see what the dilemma is this week hello i've recently started listening to your show and i love it why did you go sexy with a hello i'm imagining she is a asian woman who maybe is sipping on a glass of wine as she writes this okay keep reading I had a concept I thought could be good for you guys to cover sex with another man after you've had a baby who's not your baby's father so I got divorced when my daughter was three and the thought of another man seeing my body after having a baby really freaked me out.

People would also say things like, oh, the vagina was stretched, which made me more insecure. I felt like any man who hasn't had children would find the changes in my body revolting. That wasn't the case. And I'm very happily married with an amazing sex life. But I do wonder how many other women have the same fears. I know a lot of my friends who are divorced feel the same way and even married friends who are unhappy don't leave because of that fear oh that's interesting anyways i thought keep up the great work kiss i love the casual sign off anyways just a thought xoxo but i thought you would be you could impart your pearls of wisdom because you are a new mum yeah i wish mum i had a vaginal birth and a head does come out of your vagina.

Wow. But your body is incredible and your cervix literally dilates to the width of the baby's head to help you push it out. You're not stretching anything, baby. That's a muscle. It goes back up.

And my vagina looks really nice and I have really nice sex after birth and I would have no problem sleeping with another man. I mean, I would actually because I quite like the relationship I'm in now. But I wouldn't ever think about that being a problem with my body. My body looks the same. Really?

I'm making this face because when you said a baby comes out of a vagina, I suppose that's where people fist and stuff. Because a fist is tinier than a baby's head. Exactly. Not yours though. No, my fist is the size of a raccoon's head what is it anal rubino

it's very small anal fisting ruby anal fisting ruby love that I mean like I just don't think you have to worry about this and actually if there are

women out there who are really terrified about that that's got that's so much to do about what you're thinking rather than men and if you're with a man

who's suddenly like oh your vagina feels looser because you've had a baby just don't tell them you've had a baby. Just be like, I just had a lot of sex, mate. Have you seen this comedian? Guys with bigger dicks than you. Have you seen that comedian Ali Wong?

She talks about this. Like, she went to her friends recently. She was like telling this anecdote where she knocked on her friend's door and her female friend had just had a baby and she's like, her flaps were on the floor and i hear a lot of this you know women saying their body and you've said it actually as well in series three of our podcast where you're like your body goes through these insane changes and

like you know your vagina is like really loose or whatever i mean i don't know it's not it's not loose it's like do you know what i feel feel like the whole idea of people talking about women having babies and then having loose flaps. It's all bollocks. Like your body just retightens. It literally reshapes. Because all these kegel exercises, don't they? Yeah, I mean, on my body,

actually because I'm actually quite well informed about pelvic floor, my vagina can be tighter than yours. You know, because you do, you just don't know. And also like we should stop thinking about this idea that a tight vagina equals good sex yeah there are other things that you can do if that's not working for you and your partner like it's so much more complicated through the lens of a man because you're thinking penetrative sex exactly yeah exactly and 100% your body goes through a lot of changes but they're like incredible magical life-affirming

changes that your body can do like be so grateful that you can do that and isn't it really depressing that as soon as a woman does this unbelievable incredible thing which is to give birth she immediately is like oh fuck my body i've got to get get it back to i've got to get it tight and i've got to like work out yeah like you know that straight away that's what you know the actress emily not actress the model emily whose name model, Emily, whose name I can't remember. Rasha Tchaikovsky? Yeah. That's not our name. If we can't say Asian names, we can't say her name. She came under a lot of criticism because she just popped out a baby and then not a week had passed or a very short time had passed. And it was like washboard stomach.

And she was like holding her baby like this. And, you know, everyone was having a go at her. I sort of can see both sides i mean if you've got it flaunt it but i'm also like you are already you're fueling this insane problem and insecurity that women have in general and then women who've just given birth who feel this unbelievable pressure to get back to the way they were and it's like your body's gone through this entire huge change like embrace it and men should be kind also like don't you want a man who thinks like a womanly body if you're heterosexual a womanly body that can like have childbearing hips that should be sexual to you that should be sex well in some places it is instinctively what should be sexy i want to be with a guy who thinks

about like my hips and my boobs and everything that feels like hot and also what's the big shame on like big pussy lips like they're hot they're sexy well i mean blame porn and probably blame society but like it's taken me 20 years of like this feeds into body dysmorphia this is totally yeah right so like it's taken me 20 years to be like heroin chic is not hot i now i used to be at a point in my life where i'd look at a skinny model and be like that is the epitome of beauty the industry basically sets women up to think that they failed because already you're coming into the battle losing because your body does not look like that. And it's never going to look like that. But back to like wobbly vaginas

or whatever the question was about. Own your wobbly vagina. Own your body, man. It's going to change throughout your life. And also the other thing this question makes me think about with this kind of dilemma is like across the course of your body, your vagina is going to change the whole time. So what you're telling me that even when you got to like 50 or 60 and you're going to have sex you're still going to be insecure about it like your body you're all everyone's insecure about some bit of sex but do not be insecure about like the bit of your body that's something magic yeah totally like i look at my vagina i'm like you are amazing you're amazing your vagina is amazing i mean it gave birth to a lovely child. Yeah.

And sometimes I think he, like, my lovely child has just started to, like, stand on two feet and try to walk and all he wants to do is come and stare at my vagina because he's like, home. I'm like, I know, it's home. He always comes and he puts his head right there and I'm like, I know.

Because he was there. He was there. That was his first home, you know. Magic. We're magic, ladies. Thanks for listening to this episode. If you have any thoughts, questions or dilemmas for the Shagany R&Bs, you can email us at browngirlsdoit2 at bbc.co.uk.

Or you can send us a WhatsApp or voice note on our new number 07968 100 822. That's 07968 10822 Want a bit cockney there? As you do Cos you love a bit of cock And on that note, bye! Bye! Whatever you're looking for, we've got sounds for that. Need a pick-me-up in the afternoon? Forget the coffee, join me and Jordan instead.

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