Brown Girls Do It Too - My Safe Word is Pakora with Shaaba

Episode Date: July 29, 2022

Poppy and Rubina ponder whether BDSM has become mainstream in modern dating

BBC Sounds music, radio, podcasts sticks and stones may break your bones but do chains and whips excite you if not, this might not be the best choice of podcast as we're about to have a conversation of a very adult nature and if you think words

will never hurt you, these ones just might, so if you're not in strong language please do check out the many other titles on BBC Sounds Brown Girls Do It Too. Hello! If you didn't know already, and us naked in the thumbnail didn't give it away, this is a sex podcast. And if you can't tell from our voices, we're actually British Asian babes. We really are. I'm Poppy. I'm Robina. And this is Brown Girls Do It Too.

I'm Poppy and my safe word is pakora. I'm Rubina and my safe word is please stop. Pakora! Sounds like wizardora. Wizardora. Don't know that. We adora. You're not finding it funny. It's pakora. You're not finding it funny. She eats pakora.

Okay, that's funny. Today we're talking about BDSM. Why? Because I'm absolutely fascinated by it. Rubina, are you into a bit of BDSM? I think so. Buddhism. Buddhism.

Buddhism. Big tits. Buddhism. You'll be surprised to know that BDSM doesn't stand for Bums, Dicks, Sex, Masturbate. Yeah, I was surprised too. It actually stands for Bondage and Discipline, Dominance and Submission, Sadism and Masochism.

So it's actually BDDSSM. BDDDDSSM. That's actually quite a mouthful. Anyone who listens to Brown Girls Do It Too knows that we're really into acronyms because we who listens to Brown Girls Do It Too knows that we're really into acronyms because we like to acronym Brown Girls Do It Too. Well, Brown Girls Do It Too is bigotits. Bigotits.

Bigotits. Bigotits. And then if you say it really fast, it sounds like bigot. Bigot, bigot, bigot. So this is quite a special episode because it's bigots on Buddhism. It sounds like bigots on Buddhism. That's what this episode is about. It's about people who are bigots who are discussing Buddhism. It sounds like bigots on Buddhism. That's what this episode is about. It's about people who are bigots who are discussing Buddhism.

Welcome. I'm so glad to have you here. Going back to Buddhism. So since leaving my partner, my sex has actually become more Buddhism. My sex. Buddhism. It has become more... Kinky.

Kinky. Well, violent, really. Oh, violent. Actually, I don't know if anyone listening who's into BDSM will say that BDSM is necessarily violent. So maybe... It's become more choky, punchy, slappy, tie me up with a beltie vibe.

Lovely. Yes. Yeah. And is that something that you're enjoying? Oh, I love it. Yeah. But I've read an article, but I hear this with men.

They need, in terms of them coming, they need more and more of the extreme. So it's not enough just to have, I hate saying vanilla, it's not just enough to just, you know, fuck a girl. They need to slap her, choke her, make sure she's crying before they can come. And I read this article and it basically points the finger towards more and more violent porn. But what's your interest in it as an Asian woman? What, brown women? Can't be named yet. I, look, I mean, BDSM stands for, what does it stand for again?

It's actually BDDSS. So I'm sorry. If you didn't listen to the intro bdd sm covers a lot um but i think what i'm fascinated by is the pain pleasure mechanism it's like the nipple clamps and the spanking till you bleed and then if you're a sub you know the sub is doing your washing for you running your errands effectively being your pa and it's almost not even about the sexual gratification anymore it's the psychological aspect of, and the relationship between the dom and the sex.

I'm just fascinated by it. I want to learn more. I want to understand how it works. And I think the BDSM community, from what I've read and the research I've done, are hugely respectful. You know, they have safe words. Mine is pakora. Yours is please stop.

I think sometimes with please stop, though, they've got to be really random words babe because sometimes please stop is part of the oh right it's part of the part of the game playing the game playing

right it's like stop it's like classic Bollywood babe please stop actually stop please please stop maybe that's your safe word

please stop no actually please please stop but I'm I'm actually I feel like there's parts of it I could be interested in, right? So bondage, tying up, who hasn't tried that in the bedroom?

If you haven't, absolutely do it, because it's like very fun and very light, quite easy way in. Also, you have saris and dupattas in your room. Yeah, although I don't know if you've seen Gerald's Game. Have you seen that film? No. Okay, so basically this man ties up this woman on the bed and he's about to like, you know, have full on fun sex with her.

Ties both of her hands up onto the bed, right right and they're in a summer house in the countryside in the middle of nowhere then he has a heart attack and dies okay so and she's tied up gerald's game is very good it's a very good film even even when i'm i mean i was in a in a precarious situation where my hands were tied up um with a belt and then um the young man lifted one of the bed legs and then put my hands around the post the bed sorry I think I might have said this

but because I trusted him I'd be fine but with anyone new I don't know if I'd be ready to move on to tying up so quickly and even then the Asian in me is like

what's the escape route I don't want to be like tied up and to be honest if I went to someone's house and they were like, what's the escape route? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't want to be like tied up. And to be honest, if I went to someone's house and they were like, oh, can I tie you up? And I was like, oh, yeah, I trust you. Like, I'm into that. And then they pulled out a drawer full of ropes. I'd be like, oh, fuck.

But then I might be like, you're a pro. You know how to do that. Sailor's not. Nah, nah. First or second hinge date. And you see like, I love being tied up. And you're just trying to be kinky. Yeah.

Because we all put it on during sex, don't we? Especially in that first. Like, the first few dates I go on, I'm like, lazy love being tied up. And you're just trying to be kinky. Because we all put it on during sex, don't we? Especially in that first. Like, the first few dates I go on, I'm like, lazy poppy doesn't exist. I'm doing everything. Oh, yeah, I'm kinky. I'm up to everything. I'm doing it all. And then they come home and you're like, just get on top of me.

And then, like, it's first or second date. And the guy pulls out a wardrobe full of ropes. I'd be running out of there. Would you? I mean, I think if you're a professional bondage expert, if you know about ropes and ties and like all of that,

I'd be quite, it's quite a skill, isn't it? Okay, but it would depend on where it is. Is it just lying underneath the bed?

Is it neatly displayed? Like, it also depends on the display. Yeah, you're right. What if somebody has a cupboard? I mean, I feel like people

who are into BDSM have cupboards with hooks on them with like different They've gone to B&Q and they've made sure that I feel like people who are into BDSM have cupboards with hooks on them. They've gone to B&Q and they've made sure that the rigs, they've got BDSM covered. You're right. If it's just a guy with a box full of ropes, I'm like, you're obviously... And one of them is covered in blood and you're like, oh my God. But see, there's a difference between a guy with a box with just ropes and a guy with like,

instead of his sock and underpants, it's like neatly laid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're all labelled. Oh, interesting. Poppy. Tuesday night. I don't know. And it's like the level of BDSM,

it's almost you want to trust the partner before you... I would never do... Have you tied anyone up? No, I quite like being tied up myself. Oh, interesting. Do you know the phrase like hogtied? No, I quite like being tied up myself. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Do you know the phrase like hog tied? No, what does that mean?

It's when they tie up your feet and your hands. Okay. Like a pig. Like a pig. Hog tied. It's not halal. I, on one of the really kinky apps, there is a word, I think it's called shabari, like it actually says.

Shabari, shabari tie. Shabari rope work or something. And what does that mean exactly? Like you're tied with silks? I love how sweet, Valley High, you've gone with this. I'd like to be tied with silks.

No, there's nothing silky. It's shibari. Oh God, it's like, I've just Googled it and you can get super beginners jute rope kit.

I should really get one. Yeah. Shibari, Japanese rope bondage. Oh lovely. Ancient form of artistic Japanese rope bondage. I'd be so into that. That should really get one. Yeah. Shibari, Japanese rope bondage. Ancient form of artistic Japanese rope bondage. I'd be so into that. That sounds actually really sexy. It probably is silk. Yeah, it is definitely sexy.

But they've got that as an actual tab. I mean, the thing is foot fetish, BDSM. This is what I mean. I feel like you have to be an expert in it to become, to be like, I'd want to be doing it with an expert because they know what they're doing. But I think a lot of people are just practicing

amateurly in their bedrooms and not really knowing what they're doing. And have heart attacks and they're not going to help you. Or Gerald's game. Sad game. But I think like, because the amateur, so I have tied somebody up at university in a very like, you know, there was a scarf.

I thought it was going to be fun. I've been seeing this guy, like tied up his arms like to my university bed. And then was like, thought it was going to be fun. I've been seeing this guy, like, tied up his arms, like, to my, you know, university bed. Yeah. And then was like, oh, yeah, I'm totally going to, like, have sex with you. But actually, it's really hard to, I found it really hard to be the dominant one. Because basically, I was like, I need to feel someone's hands, like, pulling me in. Because right now, I just feel like I could do anything to you.

And I didn't find that so, like, good for me. That's why you need to be a sub, babe. Yeah. I needed to get him to tie me up. But I just wanted to try something as, like, a leveller. And I just picked a scarf from, like, the side, like, literally like a woolly scarf. There's nothing sexy about that, is there? I think it was cashmere.

I love how you went from woolly to cashmere. You fucking liar. You know it was woolly. It was woolly. It was woolly fuck. It was fake wool. It was fake wool. Yeah, it was fake wool.

And I just, I love, I don't know if I'd be into like actual pain. Actual pain. You know, like nipple clamps till they bleed, stiletto up a butthole. I remember the first time a boy bit my nipple. It hurts. I remember the first time that happens when you have sex with people and, you know, it's like the first person who gives you something that feels like on the edge of pain. Because most of the sex

you have growing up is quite like vanilla. Yeah. There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. And then you have sex with somebody who kind of pushes you a bit

and you're like, did you just, did you just bite my nipple on purpose? How did it feel? Did it hurt? Oh my God, I was really into it.

Yeah, I was like, I think I was just impressed that they would take it that far without consulting me. But they were just like, I'm just going to try this and see what happens. Also, I think BDSM gets such a bad rep. I mean, Fifty Shades of Grey really fucked it for them.

I haven't watched that film, but from what I've read, again, it really did. And also, when you watch documentaries and films, they only show the madame and then some guy being the gimp on all fours with a dog collar. There's actually a whole world to BDSM that's yet to be discovered. And I think they really do get a bad rep when they are being portrayed in the media. And actually, it's a community from the people I've spoken to.

They, you know, they have safe words. They respect each other's, like, sexual pride. They respect each other in terms of their boundaries and lines. They listen to each other. And, like, the transparency around the way they talk about sex is so impressive because they all start conversations at the top to be like, this is what I'm into, this is where my lines are, this is what I'm not into. And being really honest about your sexual fantasies,

about the stuff that goes through your head, I think is just really brilliant. I was talking to someone the other day about masturbating and having thoughts about things and what you masturbate to. And maybe your kinks go up or whatever. but I was also talking to someone about how sometimes just before I come something weird comes into my head. So you don't do anything BDSM related now really? Are you into BDSM or no? I think I'm intrigued by it but I don't have the time to give to it. I think it requires time. I think it requires time and energy and lots of conversations about that and I think I've got a lot going on in my life right now that I don't have the time to give to it. I think it requires time. I think it requires time and energy and lots of conversations about that.

And I think I've got a lot going on in my life right now that I wouldn't give it that time. But I actually think it's really important to talk about those things with your partner and see like what their edges are too. Because actually I hate the idea of being in a relationship with somebody for like a long time

and them having all these like inner thoughts about what they're into and never exploring it with me. And I'd be like, if you had asked me. And I think it's really healthy to know if your partner's watching porn, what kind of porn they're watching, what they're into.

I mean, I don't know. I wouldn't want to know everything that my ex-partner was watching, but I like to have an idea. Just give me a ballpark. Asian girls, gangbang. So my current partner's really into bums. Okay.

Yeah, he likes an ass. Not to be confused with anal sex. No, just bums. Bums, yeah. And anyway, I remember being at the pub with him the other day and seeing a bar woman in some tight jeans, nice ass. And I was looking at the ass because the truth is, I find it really annoying that women also check out bums and cleavage if there is a woman in the low

cut top in the room I have already looked at the cleavage before you stopped before you yeah exactly I already stopped myself looking elsewhere and being like I wonder who saw me look at her I was working I wonder if she saw me look at her cleavage I will always do it but I think I know I saw this bum and I was like oh yeah nice ass that's a really nice ass I looked over at my partner staring at the ass I looked over at him and I was like I can yeah, nice ass. That's a really nice ass. I looked over at my partner staring at the ass. I looked over at him and I was like, I can see you looking at that right there. Like what's going on here? But I wanted to make it clear that actually women do that too, all the time. All the time. Yesterday, mid-workout, I stopped working out because there was some fine piece

of ass walking past me. And I looked. Sorry. And I think if I can see a woman's nipples through her clothes, I always look. Because I'm like, I'm sorry, she has invited me to look. And like looking, side boob, under boob,

side boob, everything. I also like to look if, where the pants are on a bum, like sometimes you can see, because I worry about VPL,

I get VPL all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know where this has gone. Is VPL to do with Buddhism? VPL, Buddhism, because Buddhism, no VPL. um it's bpl to do with buddhism bpl buddhism um so i think like the discipline part of bdsm gets me because weirdly like i think i come from a culture and a family where i was quite disciplined we're brown babe yeah we're brown

exactly like i was always good at school i'd never step out of line you know i'm the girl that they put with the dyslexic kid to help him read i'm that girl you know um and I think I think you know that discipline element of it I was really interested in because I was like yeah like I quite like discipline I like order I like rules I like being told off too. Why don't you like Buddhism then? You'd fit right in. I think that like that is the part of the BDSM part that I'm like yes that's something I'm interested in and the submission part is something I explore in my relationship anyway so I'm like that that maybe it's quite nice like letting somebody lead there's this bit in Fleabag that really stuck with me when she's like doing her emotional monologue where she's like I just want someone to tell me what to do what to eat where to go who to be how to dress and that

was a monologue that really like resonated with so many people not just women but for me I was like yes I hate making all these decisions for myself, making big decisions, small decisions. Every day you have to make all these minute decisions, micro decisions. What am I going to eat? Who am I going to be? Wouldn't it be cool, especially now I'm raising a child, man, there are so many decisions I have to make. And it'd be really nice if someone just said, this is what you should do. This is who you are. And something about being submissive in the bedroom, somebody just telling you what to do, it feels so freeing in a way because you don't then have

to make those decisions. So weirdly, I'm into the discipline and not weirdly, completely fine and normally I'm into the discipline and the submission side of it. I'm like, that sounds like something I get involved in. But I've heard, Poppy Theory, is women who are in, and men I guess, but women who are subs in the bedroom are actually alpha outside of the bedroom

and you and I are like we make 101 decisions a day about you as a mother and as Rubina in your in your work

in your professional life you manage a team and I think in the bedroom you just want to completely cut yourself off from any kind of

decision making and it is freeing and liberating I think it is but that's why like I mean I don't know is that theory true? I imagine a lot of people

who make so many decisions in real life in the bedroom tend to be sub I don't know Guess what I am? The amazing Cameron Diaz I'm like wild

Michelle Visages Rule Breakers. Join me talking with my favorite divas, rebels and rule breakers. Hearing stories about doing things

their way. Dawn French. I felt very naughty. Alan Carr is here. Oh, I can't believe it. Billy Porter. When you are a trailblazer,

do it. Be it. What did you just call me? RuPaul. I warned you. I love love you from BBC Radio 2 Michelle Visage's Rule Breakers available to listen to only on the BBC Sounds app Brown Girls Do It Too so we're joined today by the brilliant Sharba Lotan a content creator and academic welcome to Brown Girls Do It Too welcome to the fold hi thank you for welcome to our lair everything i hear and say now is going to feel like an innuendo so like i'm oh my gosh she

fucking deals with innuendos her middle name is innuendo rubina innuendo pabani can you tell shalva about your nickname your nickname at school oh it wasn't really a nickname it's just my name is rubina and that's Rob in A. And my surname's Pabani, which sounds like Panani. So I was Robina Panani for most of my childhood. Some say nickname, some say bullying.

Hey-ho. But you're Sharba, which just reminds me of that. Sharba, Sharba. Sorry. All the time. I love it. Sorry.

I also feel like that was a proper... This is how welcome to Brown Girls do it too. That was a proper Indian dad joke. Sharba, Sharba. girls do it too. We were so Indian. Shabba. Shabba. Who the fuck are we? All the time. We are brown girls.

We're not brown boys. Sorry. The other one I get is Shabba Ranks. Like I was actually walking down the stairs and someone behind me just randomly went, Mr. Lover Man. Shabba. And I turned around and they were like, that is not your name. And I was like, oh, kill me now.

Do you ever get, oh, we'll do one last one and then we definitely have to do one. But I've just had a baby you forget? Oh, we'll do one last one and then we definitely have to move on. But I've just had a baby in January. Oh, congratulations. My mum says lots of things which like to celebrate him when he does something good. One of them is like, shabash. Shabash, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Shabash, and I love that. That's a word in Bengali as well, shabash. I don't get that one, but it's cute. I'm happy to take it. Shabash. You know why you get that one? Because it's inside Indian information. That's why. You're not going to get a white person coming to you like, shabash. I'm happy to take it. Shabba! You know why you get that one? Because it's inside Indian information. That's why.

You're not going to get a white person coming to you like, Shabash! My name is Shabba. Maybe we should start that. We should start that. Make it when you first. Also, you'd give pots to that white person

and be like, you're Asian and white. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, you were. We're not here to talk about your wonderful name. We're not here to talk about BDSM. We're talking about your sex life.

Yeah. Okay, I'm here for it. Great. So we're very interested in kind of the pain and pleasure boundaries with sex. Is that something that you explore in your sex life? That is a really interesting question. I feel like it's something that I've maybe wanted to explore more than I've had the balls to actually do.

I feel like Asian and BDSM don't necessarily go hand in hand because pain... Because you do it in real life anyway. I'm going to beat you! I don't know what I mean I feel like I just need to break it I can't not bring out a whip or something and I'm just like I have flashbacks to the wooden

spoon areas you're like hit me my mum and dad did that so I'm actually thinking about my mum and dad now. And should I be thinking about my dad because I have daddy issues? Oh, this is so fucked up. Oh God. And then it's all gone, you know, like Lady Beno's gone.

You're so fucking right. You're so right. And it's not just mum and dad that beat you up. It's like, it was a free for all. Your uncles, your aunties, anyone on a belt. And I think, sorry. Maybe someone reaches for a slip and I'm like. And you're like

This could be kinky But my parents Have fucked this up on me How dare they Take this from us I am fucking fascinated By BDSM Like absolutely

Tried Like various I'm talking about Like ropes And being tied up And like being bitten I do love a good handcuff Yeah

Like I'm Like definitely Have looked into it But it's something That fascinates me I like a good spank That love a good handcuff. Yeah, like I like definitely have looked into it but it's something that fascinates me. I like a good spank. That's just a good word. And that's where she's,

that's her, that's her area. It kind of, it's the word that sounds like it should sound and I think that is something I'd be into and I like,

I like giving and receiving some spanking. Is that your, is that where you sit? Would you go any, would you go beyond that? Yeah, I've never done ropes

but that's because I feel like you have to be quite good with knots you have to know what you're doing with a knot you can't be speediest in like a homework I must be good

at rope work otherwise I cannot do this I feel like that's a tiny bit red flaggy though like it's okay if the knot's loose is it tied well is there a ulterior motive

I was on this dating app this kinky dating app, and it's like, they've got so many different acronyms and one of them is like Shabari rope work or something. And I Googled it and I'm like... I've actually done a course in this. Oh my God, I need to get into this shit. Shabari.

You're going to get that for the rest of the recording. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. So you did a course in Shibari can you explain is it the way they tie it

that's why it's called is that how you say it Shibari I believe so we're Indian we'll say it like this quick thing there were various

other like feather work I think is involved as well so it's about like the balances between maybe I'm getting this totally wrong but from what I learnt the balances between

like liberation and being trapped and restricted which is quite hot actually I see that between, maybe I'm getting this totally wrong, but from what I learnt, the balances between liberation and being trapped and restricted. Which is quite hot, actually. I once had a guy tie a belt around my hands, he lifted the bed and then he put one of the bed licks Hang on, I'm getting...

I'm so confused. He tied my hand with his belt, because obviously we didn't have a rope. And I actually was thinking about this morning, I need to go to Amazon and, like, order some rope. But he tied my hands and then he lifted the bed leg and then put it here so I couldn't go. I was literally trapped.

But you were, like, on the floor. I was on the floor. And he fucked me on the floor with the bed leg here. You were naked. Fanny down. Well, no. Or were you fanny up? Fanny down.

Fanny down. Fanny down. Fanny down. Fanny down. no or were you Fanny up Fanny down Fanny down Fanny down Fanny down Fanny down butthole up and then that sounds like a warning

Fanny down Fanny down Fanny drop on aisle T we have one Fanny down one Fanny down yeah and it was

fucking hot holy shit because I was just like were you scared did you have a safe word no but we should have done yeah absolutely

safe consensual practice always no I didn't have a safe word didn't think about that at all how long had you known him long enough to do that I would never have done something like that

with like a one night stand with a one night stand no no I never oh god and then they like just leave you and take your money and run

yeah yeah yeah I would never do that with a one night stand ever but no there was trust there but it was like the hottest thing ever

but um it's hotter with trust people always say oh consent is so unsexy oh that's such a lie like it's so amazing I just love it but I just want to

push myself and see because obviously every sex documentary you watch you see BDSM and it's done in such an othering way

and I think of all the I mean there are so many different ways to have sex and so many different kinks but BDSM is the one that fascinates me because it's the one that I don't get

but it's the one that I really want to get on board with you know what I mean like I don't have to get everything and that's fine BDSM doesn't want to get me and I'm like whoa I don't know but it's the one that I really want to get on board with that's really interesting like I don't have to get everything and that's fine BDSM doesn't want

to get me and I'm like whoa I don't know I totally understand being dominant but being submissive I'm just like even though I'm

submissive in bed but in a very Bollywood way submissive but make it diva like totally make it bougie but like submissive

I'm not going to do your washing for you and be your PA not that kind of psychological but I will sit here and receive it's and out, I'm not going to do your washing for you and be your PA. Sure. Not that kind of psychological. But I will sit here and receive. Yeah. It's the psychology.

And I'm fascinated. I can't wait to just really push myself. I've seen so many different facets of BDSM. I know we were just talking about this a little bit before, but it's like in the LGBT sphere, I feel like I live two separate lives. My Asian life and my LGBT life don't really come together very often. That's called being Asian, babes. Yeah.

Double lives. Discrimination, wonderful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But on the LGBT side, BDSM is such a thing. You know, like furries, pleather, daddies. Rubber. Dogs even, you know, like the leashes and the proper animal treatment. Ball in the mouth.

Yeah. I was walking by Pride and there was this like massive group of just like leather daddies, each with like a partner on the floor collars the whole shebang and i was like whoa i don't know but i want to yes it's that it's like i don't get it but i want to get it yeah has anyone ever worn like a leather sari like a kinky leather sari there is a gap in the market for this you are gonna be a millionaire and i want in 50%. Can you imagine like a Jupiter

where in the side you're just like, whoosh. Oh my God. It's ready to go. That is a costume waiting to be designed. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You think about the sari. We should have an Asian king party by the way and just all dress up. Absolutely. You think about the millions, the 101 things that you could do with a sari.

Like, it could be a rope, you tie them up, you choke them, it could be made of rubber, fetish. It's such a practical use, the sari. Like, it could be a rope. You tie them up. You choke them. It could be made of rubber, fetish. Such a practical use, a sari. Yeah, I know. Turn it into a, like, you cover yourself.

You unveil yourself, you know. I know this is the point of the podcast, and I high-key love this. I just can't help but think of the Asian aunties that might stumble across this and the faces that they're going to pull when we're talking about the multi-use of a sari. Or they might be like, hang on. i've been missing a trick here somewhere what have i been doing my whole life

or damn it they're onto our secrets so how far would you take it like what do you think you're you're kind of like what have you done that feels like you've kind of tested the limits of king do you know i'm very much uh i'll try everything once kind of person i feel like i'd be up to pretty much anything hang on i say this part of my degree this is gonna sound odd there's like this really huge legal case back in the 90s where a bunch of lawyers and doctors came together to practice hardcore bdsm like really really, really sadomasochist. Obviously they were all Asian. Doctors, lawyers, engineers.

Accountants. That's security on the door. It became a thing because they filmed it and it was a huge landmark legal case because the judge was like, hang on, how much pain can we actually consent yeah i've read about this are you allowed to and like some of the levels that they were doing i mean you do you i'm not judging i just personally couldn't see myself doing it mostly because like

i have a needle phobia like the idea of like melting candles in orifices or like stapling nipples with like wall guns like that's a bit much you know like that's probably my line i was in for because that's what happens in basic instinct when she like, riding him and then she has the can down and the wax, like, burns and she's like... On the outside, fair, but, like, on the inside, I have questions. Like, I'd at least want GP clearance, you know? Yeah, yeah, that's fair. It's a belly button and inside.

A belly button is on the way inside. I've read about this case. I am actually fascinated by what you're saying. And it set this precedent because it was, even though they'd all consented, right? Yeah. It was like how much pay... It was when you were actually allowed to consent to that level of pay.

Yeah. And I'm like, well... It's like, where does the... Where does it go? Where does it go? Yeah, exactly that. So what did the judge decide? That they were all partaking in illegal...

I'm pretty sure this was not allowed. There was a certain level to which it is not allowed. And I don't know, like... Because I've seen some BDSM where you're literally bleeding. You're literally, like, bleeding. But then it's... But people are... That is how they get sexually aroused.

That is their titillation. It is that thing where it's so painful that it becomes pleasurable. It's like, I have a thing about ice cubes. And I know this is actually... No, OK, but ice cubes are hot, though. I love a hot ice cube. Yeah, that it becomes pleasurable. It's like, I have a thing about ice cubes, and I know this is actually... No, okay, but ice cubes are hot, though. I love a ice cube. Yeah, that's a good moment.

And when I first started seeing my current partner, like, in the summer, he would go down to the freezer, get an ice cube, come back up, and I'd be, like, totally asleep. That's why I think everyone leaves a mini freezer. It's amazing. It's insane. I'd let the ice cube go in all the orifice.

Yeah, yeah. So I've recently got into, as i'm coming and being choked really hard right and now i've associated i didn't do it i don't do it all the time but it is and and i can see how when you are in hardcore bdsm obviously that isn't necessarily hardcore what i'm doing i don't think But I can see how you make the associations because you've got this high and then your air is quite literally being restricted from your lungs and you associate them both with pleasure. And that's about, what's that about exactly?

That's sort of asphyxiation. Yeah, so it's like stopping the blood flow for like a second. It's insane. Give you like a head rush while you're orgasming. Yes, yes. I find like, I have a bit of a weird thing about that because i feel like in my single days when i was really sleeping around men just did that naturally like quite quickly yeah i'd be like this is oh no no no i was like you're holding my face no you are choking me yeah and that would be like i feel like that is like a standard of like the touch but that's what

men have learned from porn right they just think it's a free for all. I saw this girl do it. It's also power dynamics, isn't it? You know, like a guy feels entitled to do that. But I guess if a woman was doing that to a guy, I'd automatically feel that's really hot. Call me hypocritical. Yeah, that's true.

Wow, so that's fascinating. So in terms of, so yeah, what are your kind of pain, pleasure barriers? I mean, how far would you go? I guess you're not going to get your nips stapled anytime soon. Honestly, I think piercing of the skin will be my black area. In the grey zone, I'm up for trying anything. What about you?

Do you dress up? I would do a lot of role play, absolutely. Yeah, I can see you doing that. I don't know, but I just have this thing about YouTubers that they're really into dressing up. I don't know why. You're thinking this thing about YouTubers that they're, like, really into dressing up. I don't know why. You're thinking about furries and cosplay, aren't you? When the cameras are down and the private cameras turn on.

Where's your boundaries? Would you go for nipple piercing? I think I'm actually quite vanilla, or whatever brown vanilla flavour would be. This is it, isn't it? Standard chocolate. It's all milk chocolate. It feels like now to be vanilla in the bedroom

is not fashionable or not trendy. But I would argue vanilla has been the status quo for so long. It's been what the masses do. And actually now we are in a place where we can talk about BDSM and all these kinks a bit more openly and freely in the way that those things were always left in the darkness. Right. So, you know, I'm not saying vanilla's not having its time it's okay to be vanilla but just take a back seat because you've been ruling

the roost for a long time. I just think do what you want and don't judge others, right? I understand, sorry, dressing up but I'm still in like sexy secretary and medieval maid mode. Would you ever do anything that was kind of Indian indentured worker

type yes I would do you know whenever I'm like scrolling on porn sites if I see Asian I tend to flick away

yeah I've said this before on our podcast this is so bizarre I don't know why I actually because it's the stuff all other races

I could watch all porn from everything else and the second I land on anything that's like hot Indian woman I'm like not for me I'm like, not for me.

I'm like, what's that about? Let's theorise that. It's basically a combination of not having seen it before, self-hate, and it's probably your auntie and we're... I was going to say,

so talk to me about your parenting shoes. So that is exactly what it is because we're taught to think that brown girls are respectable. Do you know what, I can't watch any

Mia Khalifa either. Like Mia Khalifa, like famous porn star, are respectable do you know what i can't be in a slag either like mia khalifa like famous porn star everyone knows everything but i can't watch her because a bit of me is like you could be a cousin yeah exactly exactly it's like hey i i respect your right to be a sex worker but you're also family yeah and your mom's gonna kill you oh goodness wow but yeah but i suppose like coming back to bdsm it is it is it's fascinating i mean Yeah. And your mum's going to kill you. Oh, goodness. Wow. But yeah, I suppose like coming back to BDSM, it's fascinating. I mean, do you think that it is now, forget about mainstream for white people. Do you think that brown people are talking about BDSM? Is it?

No. I don't see it. We're not even there yet. We're also talking about sexy secretary outfits. So we're definitely not there yet. I was going to say, I don't think we're not even there on the basic vanilla level of sex being spoken about in my my family my culture my friendship so do you not have any so with your family your parents you never never talked about sex I feel like my mum tries to be cool and like she'll do things and mention things sometimes

but not in a way that's like fully reciprocated you know um but yeah like with friends I just I don't go there with brown friends I don't know why maybe it's the whole cousin thing hang on are you possibly related to me there's always family ties aren't there yeah i mean we talk about this like can you imagine the legion of brown cousins all going through the same thing but not being able to talk to each other about it because it's like we're not allowed and they'll tell my mom and it'll go to the auntie network it's kind of sad isn't it I'd love to be able to put on glasses and just like scan the room

and just have like the kinks pop up yes see someone you know that is such a good idea I wouldn't mind a nipple clamp actually what

a clamp yeah a little nipple clamp I'm not fond of nipple action oh the ones that go you're not fond of nipple action the ones that go like this mate I'm currently breastfeeding and I'm having a lot of nipple action

at the moment but I'm suddenly like oh I could because I feel like when I was breastfeeding at the start, I was like, this is quite sensitive. And now it feels like they're quite numb. And I'm like, maybe actually a nipple clamp would kind of, you know, because if you're feeling numb, you want to be like, I can feel something. I can feel something.

You just want a nipple clamp so you can stop your boobs from leaking. No, here's the thing, right? Maybe other people get this. When I have nipples touched, get thirsty is that unusual this is like my body's reaction it's just like no i need water i'm like it's supposed to be like like thirsty for more oh god no no like literal basic vanilla hydration it's so weird that's so interesting okay so this isn't normal no that's not normal I'm really glad I shared this I had someone bite my nipple

and it fucking hurt and I was like I'm not getting I'm not getting much I had a little bite a little bite here and there a little bite on the neck no no

and you're talking babe you're talking about you're talking about a nibble this guy had a fucking bit like you had a zombie apple did you leave a mark yes I was like

oh I could get into this but i'm not yeah yeah so no but i was gonna get um scares me about this yeah have you ever heard it apparently true your finger is the same like what's the word texture constituency that's the wrong word something yeah as a carrot so like you know think about how easy you can bite into a carrot that's how easily we could bite into our finger the reason we don't is because our brain stops it people's fingers being bit off

Lord of the Rings Gollum's finger being legit so now I'm like wait if someone's biting that hard and they just go too far like if all it takes is a carrot

you get a nipple on the floor no thank you imagine that you should have been like as he was doing it be like this could be a carrot I'm not your salad and then I go

maybe I'm all like I'll turn it then I go to A&E with my nipple in a fucking ice bag. Glue this back on again. My partner thought I was a root vegetable. Jeez. I tried it, but I was seriously quite recently, very recently thinking about getting a nipple piercing.

But apparently it desensitises you. Some people say it sensitises them more, though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you can get vibrating ones. Ooh. So you're just like on the Victoria line and you're like... Or you get ones where your partner controls the vibration,

so you're just working and one day you're like, oh, my God, you're thinking of me. I feel like you're coming from a place of poverty. Not with a nipple piercing. But there are other toys that do that, for sure. Yeah, nice. I wanted to talk to you a little bit about the whole submissive and dominant role.

Because Poppy and I, we're both kind of more... Dominant. No, submissive. Yeah, we're both kind of subs. And we both always talk about really enjoying being quite dominated in the bedroom and being like, oh yeah, take a job. But she's right in a Bollywood way,

in a kind of like, chase me, chase me. Chase me, chase me around the bedroom. Oh my God, you got me. Our culture has fucked us so mad. Totally. This entire podcast is like, let's trace who's fucked us. It's our culture, our mothers, our fathers. Yeah.

Also, I can't even, you are accountable. Part of like, not me not wanting to be dominant in the bedroom is also because I realise that I quite like being told what to do. Yes. And it's not nuts because I think my parents quite like being told what to do. Yes. And that's because I think my parents always told me, you know, do this, do this, do this. This is the way to do it. And I was always like, no, no, no.

But then when I get to my bedroom, when I get to my like inner life, I'm like, just tell me what to do. I need to be told where to go. Tell me to take off my underwear. I will do that. Yes, thank you. Yes, yes.

Oh God. Anyway, are you. Yes, yes. Oh, God. Anyway, are you more submissive like us? Are you pathetic like us? I feel like I take it in turns. I've also been in a long-term relationship for many, many years now. So we're like, we've got a groove on. You know, like we know what's what. You take turns.

Yeah, yeah. Sometimes I'm very happy being submissive. Do you know what else it was? Like very recently, I was just like, you know what's what you take turns yeah yeah sometimes equal i'm very happy being submissive do you know what else it was like very very recently i was just like you know what i can accept taking without giving that's okay i think and i wonder if that was like the asian part of me as well that's just like oh no no you've pleased me i have to please you too you know but yeah just listening to things like this and other incredible sex creators yeah it's just like yeah no it's okay we can explore a bit more. It's not embarrassing.

You can give without taking. I've done that once. Yeah, yeah. Oh, no, no, take without giving. Before you slip. But sure, I mean, that's what you're going to do. Well, I'm a bit dyslexic. Hang on, say that again.

You can give without taking. I can take without giving. I've done it too. Oh you can you can give without taking i can take without giving i've done it too oh yeah yeah you can take yeah so i feel like that's quite dominating what do we say that again so you can i can be fucked without having to fuck that has never been a true word said I'm just like this all the time. That has never been a true word said. Poppy's going to be like, yeah, I'm like this all the time.

Anyway. It's the dyspraxia. No, I have to be pleasured. I have to be pleasured. I'm the first. I'm an Asian, but I'm first born. I'm selfish as fuck. Yeah, yeah.

I have to. Yeah, I'll give you whatever. She thought that's got something to do with it. Huh? I am too. Oh my God. Yeah, I'm first born. No, I went through all phases

of like when I was on my period and if I didn't want to have sex but I was like you clearly want to have sex and I want to pleasure you

would be like I'll give you a hand job I'm not going to be that into it though that's where my line is drawn

yeah my line is I will I will have sex with you and I won't come but I

definitely that's the internal misogyny and patriarchy drilled into me I want you to come

because then I can feel good in myself I know I've done a job I've done some tick I totally feel that yeah so I do that to come. Because then I can feel good in myself. I know I've done a job. I totally feel that. That's what I do.

I feel like that's been quite liberating to get out of. I've been doing that a little bit recently and I'm like, oh, yeah, this feels good. It doesn't feel like an incomplete job anymore. And being like, no, do this. Even though you're submissive, I can be a bit of a pillow princess, I'll admit it, but just be like, do this, do that. No, no, no no keep going

you know like it's bossy instructions yeah yeah yeah nice even though I'm a sub I'm quite I'm specific with instructions

so you're a dominating sub I'm a dominating sub you're a dom sub I'm a dom sub oh I know exactly what I like and how I like it and you will

and you're not afraid to communicate that oh no brilliant I will tell you I will give. And you're not afraid to communicate that? Oh, no. Brilliant. I will tell you. I will give you clear, verbal cues. One last question. Can you have kink without the shame?

Does one feed into another? That's such a good question. I don't know. I feel like that's saying, can you have the pleasure without the pain in BDSM? I kind of feel... Oh my gosh. I feel like we need a therapist in here after this like

well we all need therapy discovery clearly I mean I'm gonna say no I feel like the shame is part of the kink but it's an empowerment shame so is shame really yeah I I don't know I I feel like if you were to ask someone who practiced BDSM they wouldn't probably say shame right but to us mere mortals I don't know I started I started thinking that shame is actually really valuable because it shows you where your bound your boundaries are for the things that you think that you should be proud of it's the shame that's projected onto you when someone says that's wrong yes that and that's something different but you you're allowed to feel some shame about where your lines yeah I'm going to rephrase it

I think you can't have kink without vulnerability and vulnerability is a sexy thing to hold that's a sexy thing that's it and that's why you have the whole sub Dom Rolls

right it's being vulnerable being exposed vulnerability is like shame on your terms where shame is like you're allowing other people to inflict that on you

with consent where it's not society's shame on you exactly oh I love that I went and went to some vulnerable sex yeah

I have cried once after coming because it was so good happy tears I don't know it just felt like emotional yeah

oh yeah yeah that was a beautiful moment yeah and that's the moment we'll end on thank you so much thank you for having

me for coming on our podcast it's been so much fun that was an innuendo there we go I didn't even realise I was doing it

thank you so much for coming please come again ladies and gentlemen the safe word has been triggered it's time to end our episode today

that's all we've got time for. I am very interested in what people think about BDSM. So please do get in touch. Yeah, if you like being whipped, spanked, tied up, hog tied in a long way. Pig, cow tied? Maybe there's another. Chicken tied.

If you like being chicken tied down at the farm, do share. I don't know where you're going with this. It's actually been an episode about animals, hasn't it? If you have any thoughts, just do email us. Our address is browngirlsdoit2

at bbc.co.uk And please do subscribe to the podcast on BBC Sounds. Bagoda! I'm Morgan Freeman and this is Six Degrees from Jamie and Spencer

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