Brown Girls Do It Too - Poppy Revisits... Charithra Chandran

Episode Date: January 3, 2025

What makes a girl a woman? When does it happen? Poppy and Rubina are joined by actress Charithra Chandran to discuss girlhood, aging, maternal influences and finding "the one".Most people know Charithra for playing the elegant Edwina Sharma in Netflix’s Bridgerton. Since then, she has made her West End debut in one-woman play Instructions For A Teenage Armageddon - a show about a misfit 17 year-old girl grappling with grief and everyday adolescent challenges and featured in a show on Amazon Prime. Have a message for Poppy and Rubina? If you’re over 16, you can message the BGDIT team via WhatsApp for free on 07968100822. Or email us at [e-mail] If you're in the UK, for more BBC podcasts listen on BBC Sounds: bbc.in/3UjecF5

BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. Hello, I'm Poppy Jay and I'm just popping up on your feed to tell you that Rubina and I will be back with a brand spanking new season of Brown Girls Do It Too very soon. We'll have great guests, riveting conversation and of course the Shagney Aunties are here for all your tea. If you'd like to share with us your stories, your thoughts or dilemmas then email browngirlsdoittoo at bbc.co.uk or if you're over 16 you can leave us a WhatsApp message on 07968100822. I want to share some of my favourite episodes with you over the last few seasons.

And one of those is Girls to Women with Charitha Chandran, who you might have seen playing Edwina Sharma in Bridgerton. So me, Rubes and Charitha talked about the transition from being a girl to being a woman. And I remember on that particular episode, both me and Rubina, we kept referring to ourselves as girls. But I think now that I'm going to be 40 and it's on the horizon and I can see it I probably wouldn't say that I'm a girl now I think now I definitely would describe myself as a woman sometimes in certain moments in certain spaces like when I'm with my family I go back to being a girl again. But I think I'm definitely owning my womanhood more now than I did when I was recording that episode.

We also talk about ageing and how it gets better as you get older. And I still stand by that, by the way. I still very much stand by that. It does get better as you get older. And whenever I meet friends in their 40s, 50s, they say the exact same thing. So there was a social clip that was shared from this particular episode that went wild. And it triggered so many people. And it's basically Taritha saying that this idea that older women are jealous and bitter of younger women, and that we need to be listening to older women because they've lived our lives and patriarchy has done that and there have been so many comments about what is patriarchy

and why is it involved here like people couldn't understand what patriarchy had to do with what teritha was saying and it begged the question do people even know what it means so i think certainly when we come back in season six rubina and i need to talk about the p word patriarchy and really give it context and meaning like what does it mean how does it affect women and men who are the upholders of patriarchy it's everyone it's not just men but that's a conversation for future poppy and rubina now over to past future Poppy and Rubina. Now, over to past Poppy and Rubina. Dearest gentle listeners, welcome to Brown Girls Do It Too.

Poppy, you look rather lovely. Would you care to join me for a promenade whilst I fill you in on the latest happenings? I hear scandal has taken over the ton. Gossip is spreading like wildfire this season. Indeed it has. But before we continue, we must warn you about what lies ahead. Be forewarned. This journey will contain very strong language and content of an adult nature. However, we will try to keep to the means and manners of society.

Make haste. We have an episode to begin And royalty joining us This is a podcast about sex At least it started off like that Now we talk about everything Everything is sex And sex is everything And that includes our mistakes, our heartbreaks And our hot, mistakes, our heartbreaks, and our hot,

hot, hot takes. I'm Poppy, and I feel like a woman when I wear a sari. I'm Rubina, and I feel like a woman when I look at my paycheck and my career and think, whoa, the world has fucked us. Why do you think the world's fucked you? Because of your paycheck and your career? Oh, because you get taxed so much. Three words. Gender pay gap. Oh, shit. Fuck.

Of course. Sorry. That's when I feel like a woman. Sorry. Oh, I see. I'm not getting paid as much as you. Oh, I see. Sorry.

I was like, I thought you were like, they're taxing me too much or something. The Asian in you was like, I don't want to get taxed that much. Oh, yeah. Fair. Fucking hell. Yeah. Terrible. That's the time that I really feel like a woman

is when I notice inequality. And I'm like, oh, that's because I'm a woman. Oh, I feel inequality every time I'm in a waxing salon because I'm like, men do not have to do this. I feel like it's strange when you're supposed to be like some sort of empowered woman because the times I'm reminded I am a woman, it's often because I'm realizing the lack of my power.

I don't want to get naggy right now, but I'm constantly reminded that I'm a woman every single time in society from the moment I wake up to the moment I go to sleep. And it's not just the gender pay gap. It's being able to come home at night, listening to music and not have to worry about what time it is. It's what male colleague got what job opportunity over me. It's people talking trash and shit behind my back. It's what male colleague got what job opportunity over me. It's people talking trash and shit behind my back. It's everything. It's all. And one of the reasons why I didn't want children is because I didn't want my career to get fucked.

One of the many reasons. It's constant. Yeah. Every day, all the time. Do you, Rubina, Rubina, do you think it was easier for you in your childhood, like Rubina kid or Rubina woman? What was easier? Look, Rubina girl had her own set of problems to deal kid or Rubina woman what was easier look Rubina girl had her own set of problems to deal with

Rubina woman has a different set of problems I honestly don't think things got easier they were just different in conclusion women just fucking always have problems

like I said I mean maybe like the weight of responsibility is bigger on me now because I have people depending on me but yeah I think like

as a little girl I also had my own issues. I'm not sure. I think, I think women have a tough time. We do have a tough time. There's no thinking involved. We absolutely have a tough time. I loved being a kid. I suppose I stopped being a child when I was 10. It's when I was suddenly told I couldn't play outside anymore. It's when my family and my extended family started seeing me as a woman not as a child I didn't get my period till I was 16 so I actually loved being a kid up until the age of 10 and then you're right 10 to fucking 19 brings a set of problems and then 19 to now brings another set of problems but 10 to 19

you think you're 25 35 yeah yeah you're like you're like 19 going on fucking 92 and then you like actually hit you're like 20 25 and you're like, actually, no, I'm just going to behave like I'm 15, but have a driving license and can drink. I feel like I'm more of a kid now than I was when I was 27. I mean, no, that's a lie. When I was like probably 22. For sure. When you talk about yourself in that third person way that you sometimes do, do you think of yourself as Poppy the girl or Poppy the woman? Girl. Poppy the girl or Poppy the woman?

Girl. Poppy the girl. Always the girl. I never refer to myself as the woman. Same. Always a girl. When I look in the mirror I see a girl.

I see a girl. I sometimes see like a 10 year old in the mirror and I'm like who the fuck is that? Yeah. Yeah. I don't ever refer

myself as a woman. I'm always before myself. And that's why this podcast is called Brown Girls Do It Too not Brown Women Do It Too. Our guest today should need no introduction. You might know her as Edwina Sharma from Netflix's steamiest period drama, Bridgerton. And she's about to take the West End by storm, we hear. It's Charithra Chandran. Welcome. Welcome. To Brown Bells Do It Too I don't know where I'm waving

but hello hello do you like our snazzy jazzy brothely curtain I love it so fun

pink's my favourite colour oh great good pink is a colour of a lot of young it's a favourite colour of a lot of young girls I think it's because

Janelle Monae said we're all pink inside so I think that's also good a unifier maybe factually correct right I hope so I'm pink inside aren't all pink inside so I think that's also good I think it's a unifier maybe factually correct right I hope so

I'm pink inside sometimes I'm a bit more mauve aren't men pink inside well we're all pink inside really we're all pink inside well my we went to a labiaplasty doctor

and my lips are not pink they're like hyperpigmented they're like they're mauve they're like purple but are labia inside or outside outside

inner labia and outer labia you've got two don't you yeah which we learnt when we did our cast of our vaginas. Something's pink. Was that fun? Yeah, the cast vagina was really fun. I can't imagine that's very comfortable.

No, it's fine. Somebody takes plaster of Paris type material and just puts it onto your vagina and then peels off the kind of inversion, so it does the inside, and then puts that into a mould. Oh, so it's not like you're just waiting for something to dry for hours. No, no.

We didn't even... I still don't know where they are. Our vaginas. I don't know where our vaginas are. I want them. That's the great point. I actually think it's rather concerning that they exist somewhere else. There was an artist, she had it as part of something. And it was a campaign

that we did but I want my vagina obviously I don't want your vagina you can have your vagina if you want wait well here's a question

could you tell the difference could you interestingly because I don't think I could interestingly she said our vaginas

were very similar she did she said you've got really similar lips and actually when you look at them you're like they are quite similar

like vulva difference is something a lot of people celebrate so I don't want to ever to make it feel like your vagina's gonna lie in line vulva diversity but ours just were randomly similar vulva difference is something a lot of people celebrate so I don't want to ever to make it feel like your vagina's gonna lie in line vulva diversity but ours just were

randomly similar because we probably fucked the same amount of people not the same people but the same amount it would be jokes if you fucked the same people we might have fucked one

there might be one crossover we both collectively had multiple one night stands that names we don't remember and anyway so glad to have you here you are yeah you're an acting legend

do you want to talk to us a bit about your one-woman play? I love that you're doing a one-woman play. This is great. I mean, this is how I describe myself, is like delusional and very naive because why am I making my West End debut in a one-woman show? Who knows? Spoiler.

Thank you. It is so exciting. Like I always say, equal amounts nerve-wracking and just the greatest adventure ever. Yeah, I feel really creatively challenged and pushed and fulfilled. As you can see, my voice is going because I am just talking for six hours straight, every day rehearsing. But yeah, it's called Instructions for a Teenage Armageddon. It's playing at the Garrick Theatre starting on the 17th of March.

And it is a comedy like straight up it is a comedy but it is also a study on grief because the story is basically about this girl who at 13 loses her sister who is her everything to her to anorexia and how that tragedy affects the next four years of her life and her family's life and it touches upon mental health sexual assault friendships body dysmorphia through the lens of comedy and I think that you know in society teenage girls are a group that are mocked criticized have you guys ever noticed that everything that like we think is frivolous or silly or is embarrassing are things that like teenage girls like boy bands frappuccinos

like you know rom-coms yeah and it's like intentional right it's to isolate and denigrate young girls and I am so grateful to be doing this play because to me it is a testament to teenage girls yeah to me the most a testament to teenage girls. To me, the most powerful, the most powerful, wonderful group of people. So, yeah. I love this. So exciting. Do you remember the moment for you when you went from girl to woman? Was there like a moment where you were like, I don't feel like a girl anymore. I feel like I'm a woman.

I still to this day sometimes feel like a girl. So I don't think, I don't know. I don't think there was ever a moment. Like I still feel like a girl. So I don't think, I don't know, I don't think there was ever a moment. Like, I still feel like a girl so much of the time. But I also think it's interesting when you're a girl, like, obviously you're innocent compared to when you're a woman, but there's always an added layer of, like, an inaccessibility to an innocence that young boys have.

Because of, like, society makes, you know, I remember at four years old, like, I would just lie on the sofa and I'd be told to like close my legs at four. So like even when I think about a young girl's innocence, I always think, oh, but there is less of an innocence than with young boys. I completely agree with you. My innocence, and I'm going to word this carefully, my childhood was taken away from me when I was eight because I think, again, maybe not specific to South Asian culture, but I can only when I was eight because I think again maybe

not specific to South Asian culture but I can only speak about our culture because I'm a South Asian it's like you know your cousins are coming or your you know so-and-so is coming like wear something appropriate or don't look like that or don't dress like that and it's like I'm a fucking child exactly why am I being treated like the it's like the adultification of children and that happens it's so the adultification of children and that happens it's so rife I think within our community I think there was also two moments where I felt like a girl to a woman is when I got my period and when I got married that's when I was like I'm a woman now is there like a defining moment in your sort of adolescence when you were growing up where

you where you really felt that change I don't think I felt it when I got my period. I actually think I had the other scare where I was like, oh my God, this is supposed to be a sign of womanhood, but I'm still a child and I still feel that way, but I know this means I'm a woman. I could imagine it was when I first wore a sari because instead of wearing a parvada or a half sari, I wore a full sari and that I guess probably felt quite

grown up but it like I said I think and I feel really privileged that um I still feel like a child most of the time and I feel really lucky for that it's funny because I feel like we try to accelerate our yeah kind of womanhood when you're really young you think you're way older than you are and that's like being a teenager I would just be like I know everything I know everything there is to know about the world and anything my mum

would say to me for advice I'd be like I'm not taking advice of you like I know what I'm doing and actually now

I look back at those times and I'm like oh god she was really telling me some important stuff that I like didn't didn't take and you get to our age

and you're like I'm a child you act you act kind of immature you dress like a you kind of hark back to your youth a bit more I think the older you get

I've got a two year old and the other day I was hanging out with him joggers, trainers chilling in our house like pissing about with a football and I was like

I am just playing with this baby and this baby is mine and I was doing that thing where I was like but I'm a baby yeah this is what you do

when you're like am I in a casual relationship and Vivian had this epiphany where she thought she was in a casual relationship, but she's in a civil partnership with someone where she shares a mortgage and a child. And I'm like, no way. I thought I was in a situationship.

Someone described situationship to me and I was like, yeah, that's what I got. And then they were like, no, that's not what that means. How do you refer to your partner? Do you say partner? Yeah, he's my partner. He's my partner. He's my partner.

We're in a civil partnership. We have a baby. I just didn't want to get married because I... That's not a situation. Yeah. In it. But I still feel like it's funny because I look at him and I still think he's really young. He's like 45.

No, wait, is he? He's about to turn 44. And I still look at him and I see this like... That's a good thing. I see this like guy that I met on a first date. He's like, he looks like a child to me. And like when we're hanging out, I feel like we're really playful. Like me, him and my son were all in bed this morning doing a really ridiculous cuddle fortense with the duvet at 6am, pissing about.

And I'm like, I feel like I'm quite connected to my inner child. I think people that are are more joyful. I think they're happier, more younger. I also think society's changed, right? Like now, I think our idea of ageing and like what's appropriate for what age. Yeah, it's all gone out the window. We realise it's all bullshit. It's all bullshit.

Yeah. Like, I'm 38, still fucking 22 year olds. Like, I'm living my life. Genuinely. And like, this is the thing. I hate age shaming. Age shaming in either way. Women do that all the time.

Wear whatever you want at any point in your life. And we do it to celebrities all the time. Like, people take the piss out of Madonna for wearing what she wears and I'm like are we kidding right now let Madonna wear whatever she wants she can do whatever she wants

and I'm actually talking about like this inner child like what's your most childlike trait that you have I can't not contain a laugh when somebody farts oh my god me too

it's so funny my fart is next to you like a few times yeah but you didn't I didn't hear it only if you can hear it it's only funny if you can hear it if you're like I farted

it's like that's not funny but it's like, that's not funny. But if you're like, that's not funny. Oh, that's hilarious. We have the humour of five-year-olds. Oh my God. I just think I'm kind of disgusting. Like I have no discipline. What's the most gross thing that you do?

You do not look disgusting, by the way. No, no, no. So I'd say I'm really messy, but I'm very clean. Like I'm not dirty, but I'm very messy. Yeah. Like I'm super clean and messy. But like, I just have no discipline. I have no self-control.

Like, I can't go a one week without eating chocolate. Like, I have no self, I have no impulse control. You tell me not to do something and I will go and do it.

That's interesting. it's really bad. Yeah. I'm just very, very undisciplined. But you are an actor who's doing a one woman show. Yeah.

That's like, quite disciplined to me. But that's because I love it. Yeah. Yeah, no, no, no,

I can't. But maybe you're allowed to be undisciplined about certain aspects of your life when you're so disciplined about me. But that's because I love it. Yeah. Yeah, no, no, no, I can't. But maybe you're allowed to be undisciplined about certain aspects of your life when you're so disciplined about work. Maybe. But I don't know. I just think I'm really silly.

Like, I want to do child, like, what's considered children's activities. How old are you? I'm 27. You look about 15. I know, I love it. You look...

I was like, is she legal, guys? Yeah, I was like, you look unbelievably young. But it makes dating really hard because the only men that approach you are perverts. I love that so much. I didn't think about it like that. I mean, you're obviously blessed with excellent genes.

So when you are actually our age, you'll probably look much younger. But you look extraordinarily young and obviously very beautiful. I mean, I think if there was a picture of me and you, somebody might actually think she's my child do you think?

no that would be so funny I mean I'd enjoy that no but I love it no Shanti my mum like I call her Shanti because she is like my sister

looks about 35 oh wow yeah she's like she had me at a very appropriate age what's her secret? just jeans man my grandad so her dad he's like 86 She had me at a very appropriate age. What's her secret? Just jeans, man. My grandad, so her dad, he's like 86, looks about 60.

It's mad. Brando Brown. Brando Brown. It's mad, yeah. But you enjoy it. You like looking... Yeah, I've never wanted to look older. I have a real...

But this is the thing also. It feels like maybe contradicting everything I've said, but I also have a real, but this is the thing also. I feel like maybe contradicting everything I've said, but I also have a problem with aging. Like my birthday, I do not enjoy it. I'm actually like actively miserable and I do psychological warfare around, on everyone around me on my birthday. When's your birthday?

17th of Jan. Babe, can I just say one bit of advice? Capricorn. I know. You've got to embrace it. Age, it just gets better. It's privilege as well. It's such a luxury.

Oh, my God. Being in your 30s, it just gets better. And then my friends who are in their 40s, it's good. Don't fight it. It is. But I face such psychological warfare. So I always say to my family and friends, I'll be like, no, no, no, I don't want to do anything for my birthday.

I just want it to be low-key. I don't want anything. Donate to charity, which I do mean that. Yeah. And then the day comes and they don't do anything. And I'm like, oh, I guess no one loves me. Oh. I guess no one loves me.

Okay, okay, I see how it is. Or I'll plan a party and then the day before I'll cancel. Oh my God, you're so dramatic. Yeah. I'm literally upset when actually no one turns up. Exactly. And then I'm like, oh, okay. You all listened to what I said

then fine okay it's really bad I feel like we need some sort of calibration system on your birthday but this is the thing I'm actually such a reasonable person like I'm

I'm very reasonable that is how people that would probably be the first thing that people say like she's very reasonable very chill yeah except on my birthday

where I act like a psycho oh then you're allowed you're allowed one day a year come on no big deal I'm psychotic yeah just on that day where I act like a psycho you're allowed you're allowed one day a year come on no big deal yeah just on that day just on that day we're fine do you feel like there's an age where people should like kind of let go of their inner child and maybe establish that they are a woman or like no that was so easy you're like no for what for when well I feel like there's a kind of benefit there's a kind of idea that like you know there is something actually powerful about being a woman and being responsible and like owning that and like talking. Like, I don't know, because I feel like on this podcast, we get a lot of young people email us and stuff.

And I would hate for them to see us in a certain way. And then I feel like a responsibility to them. And I think sometimes I should be like holding ourselves a little bit like, yeah, we do have a bit more experience than you. And so maybe we should be able to talk to you in a way that feels like there is a respect but there is but that that isn't um there isn't an incongruence between like what you have is wisdom right and you can impart that wisdom but I also feel like I would have wisdom it's also about experiences it's not about age and with age comes more experiences but not necessarily right because I will have wisdom and advice for you on things that I've experienced that you haven't.

Yeah, of course. And obviously, if you've lived more lives, you've had more experiences. So I don't think about it as age. I think about it as experiences. And having said that, like, it's so funny. I think I see a lot of, like, discourse on social media about young women being like, oh, old women are so bitter and all this and like so jealous and all this. And I think the biggest, but also the biggest lie and the biggest mess up that patriarchy has done to young women

is to make young women think old women are bitter when they give us valuable advice. Right. And I'm like, no, they've literally lived our lives. Listen, but the patriarchy has convinced young women that old women are bitter. Older women are bitter. And then men can do their bullshit on young women. And I'm always like, no, no, no. I will always listen to an older woman. You are fucking wise beyond your years.

I just don't want to. I'm just like. Are you single? Yeah. Are you like dating or? Yeah. How's that going? How's that going for you?

With the father yeah um guys I'm not even gonna lie if I met my dream person whatever that means I'd want to be married tomorrow

like because marriage I think seems really fun like marriage so you do want to get married I want marriage you want marriage or you want a wedding

I want marriage marriage you want marriage or you don't want a wedding my dream wedding would be like hire out food, like have a barbecue. I love barbecues.

My favourite thing. Oh really? I would hire like food trucks. So I don't want a wedding, really. But I want marriage because marriage seems so fun. Like you have like an

inbuilt best friend that you can go do fun things with. But you can do that with somebody who you're not married to. That's true. That is true. But I think... Do you mean like a relationship?

You like the idea of like a serious relationship you want the commitment I want a serious committed relationship where they can't escape so easily though oh yeah you need

something to lock them down a mortgage yes find different ways to trap them it doesn't always have to be marriage that is true yeah I want like

some thing that they can't leave easily so you don't want to you're not like into serial dating you want to be you want to fall in love?

Well, I've never been in a relationship because, and there is a combination of like, I'm South Asian and this is how we've been brought up. But I also do think it is a personality trait of mine because I am pretty good at unpacking. I always say this, it's easy for me to be a good person because I genuinely believe in the things, the way I live my life. Rather than like, oh oh society expects me not to

do xyz yeah and I thought about like oh I've always gone into dates being like are you my future partner my future husband whatever father of my children and I thought like is this because I'm South Asian and we've been told that's how we should approach dating but no I genuinely like that is my personality and I'll date someone go on a few dates, date them for a month. And then if I think, oh, you're not my future partner, I'll end it. So I guess in my life, I imagine I'll only ever be, ideally, in one relationship. That sounds quite romantic. Can I ask, what has Bridgerton taught you about dating?

Has it taught you anything? Yes, it has, actually. It's not always the case that more options, the better. Yeah. Like, I actually think that's really flawed. And I like the idea of, okay, these are the options in the room, pick the best one. And I think that's really helpful and good. Because I think there is this culture of always looking for better because we do feel like options are endless. Whereas I really try to see like, is this good enough? And that's not a bad thing. But is this good?

Is this good enough to be like, this is good. I'm done. I also loved that you shout out your mum because I'm really close to my mum too. And I love the idea of like kind of, you know, finding someone who gets on with my mum. That was like always really important for me. It's so important. Very key, right? And my dad.

Oh, my God. Yeah. And like when I, the guy that I'm with now, who I have the child with, who I've been in a situation with. For how long? When I, like, eight years. We've been together forever. And when I met him, I was like, he's hot. He's smart.

He's cool. And I want to fuck him. And I wasn't thinking about any of the other things I wasn't thinking like will my mum like him will my brother like him I wasn't thinking that the first time I met him

because I was just wanting to sleep around and I was like you're a great shag and this is going to be for as long as it can be fun and then like I was like

I don't want to have a relationship with you and then he did all the things that made me think oh my god my mum's going to love you and it would like I almost got into

a relationship with him because I was like it would be such a shame for her to miss out on you and that's been like so key like it's such a valuable thing would you take advice

from your mum on dating and the next one do you often do now I tell my mum everything like first date because I think this is the thing

Shanti will say something that's like and Shanti's so blunt like she's so rude she's so rude but she'll say something and I'll go, I disagree. Shut up.

And I'll like storm away. But then what she said will penetrate and I'll think and I'll think and then I'll like come back and go, you were right. Is she often right? Yeah, I think so. Well, this is the thing. It's like we get carried away or I get carried away with like lust and coolness and like we're having a good time and Shanti can see, like...

Beyond that. Beyond that. And she knows me so well, you know, obviously. It matters. I will never be with someone that doesn't like my parents. That's just not possible. It's not. It's not going to happen.

Even if my parents are the problem, sorry, I've got them. Like, what am I going to do? Whoa. Big, bold statement there no they're not they're great I mean yeah

they don't even if they are the problem yeah you're obviously going to show allegiance and loyalty to your mum and dad who have raised you

for now yeah it's like sorry what am I going to do tell my parents can't pick the other ones I quite like that see I don't have a good

relationship with my parents so I and I think that desire you both have is born from having a really good healthy relationship

with your parents it's always been healthy though yeah yeah but it sounds like both of you but I think now though when I'm ready to be

in a relationship because I hid my ex-partner for a long time well they don't actually even know about him but the next partner I'm with... Can I just ask clarification? Yeah.

And you don't have to answer. So are you with someone now? No, I'm not with someone now. When you're open? No, no, no. I was with my ex-partner, but we broke up. It was mutual. And now I'm dating like an absolute...

Oh, my God. So I'm very happy where I am. How do you meet people? On dating apps. Oh, nice. I'm on all of them. Quite literally. She does really well out of it. I do really, really well where I am. How do you meet people? On dating apps. Oh, nice. I'm on all of them. Quite literally. She does really well out of it.

I do really, really well. I do. It is a full-time job. You're a beautiful girl. Get it. Thank you. I've got sleep in my eye right now as I say this to you.

Doesn't like giving a blowjob, but that was actually in the last episode. No, no. I said I now have to give blowjobs because I'm an older woman fucking, so I'm doing my bit for older women. I actually think the opposite.

I think if you're an older woman, you like... Firstly, you're not an older... Why do you keep saying older woman? No, no, no. But I'm totally owning my fucking so I'm doing my bit for older women I actually think the opposite I think if you're an older woman you like firstly you're not an older why do you keep saying older woman no no no but I'm totally owning my age by the way

I feel fabulous you don't have to ever worry about me and my age but I'm older than you so I don't know how you'd want me to say it but I'm an older I'm not the oldest woman

but I'm an older woman and I'm having my hoe up I'm having my glow I love it I'm having a fucking great time and it's great dating in your 30s than in your 20s

and actually what I've realised is like this whole thing that we're talking about from girlhood to womanhood I'm like a walking talking reverse case of Benjamin Button

I just feel like I'm getting I feel like I'm getting younger reverse case of Benjamin Button it is Benjamin Button rather than a reverse case because he was getting younger no no he was getting older no he's getting younger he's getting younger okay i'm just i'm so dyspraxic so i now honestly like what you were saying earlier when i was growing up i felt the weight you know i was in like a

forced marriage i felt the weight of being an adult of being a woman at such a young age. And I'm now getting back those years where I had that childhood really and that sort of early adolescence taken away from me. So I'm having a great time. It's like clubbing, right? Like I really love to go out. I really love to party, all this. And I see so much like discussion about, oh, like at what age are you too old to go to a club?

And I'm thinking never. Never. I hope I'm doing this at 50. Oh, my God. Me too, honey. Have you watched Indian matchmaking? I hate it. Okay.

But you've watched it, right? Yeah. Yeah. Why do you hate it? Because I think that like, I do think it's accurate. Like, I'm not going to pretend like, oh, you know, Indians aren't like that. They are. like I'm not gonna pretend like oh you know Indians aren't like that they are but and I think this about like representation in general in the when you are barely represented on screen I think

there is an obligation that representation breaks barriers and breaks stereotypes and that perpetuates an already existing stereotype so I think what benefit does it add to the Indian community makes white people laugh like brown people aren't watching that going oh my god this is so funny we're going holy shit triggered

so I'm thinking it's mocking brown people it's not saying anything new about our culture exactly it's not saying

anything new it's mocking us for a white audience so my follow up question wasn't actually why you hated it it was that scene

where there's that girl who lives and dies by everything her mum says so there's a character a bit like scene where there's that girl who lives and dies by everything her mom says so there's a there's a character a bit like yourself where she's got a really she loves her parents parents love her and she goes to her mom for everything do you think that your mom has like a lot of weight and control in your dating life she doesn't have control okay I think you take her advice I take her advice but I think especially like in the last few years, my mum and I have a lot of respect for each other. And we have a lot of respect. So I take her advice, but it's advice. And that's like, that is the thing that we've been working on, which is transitioning from my mum going, I've told you to do this so do it to here is my advice and I'm not going

to be upset if you don't take it that's big that's a best progress how did you get that yeah I'm still on the fucking first thing

I think by mirroring so like I behave in a way where she goes oh this was nice this was nice that Trithra did this

or like listen to me this way or apologize or heard my concerns. So then I say, you know how I did that? Do you mind doing that to me? So I make her mirror my behavior. Wow. I saw a clip recently on the internet of this guy

talking to his mom about boundaries. I don't know if either of you saw it. Oh my God, I did. He's like, you know, we just have some boundaries. She's like, boundaries? How fucking dare you with your boundaries? Like as if I got a chance to have boundaries. Boundaries is so offensive off on one and I was like it's really interesting because I think the way that we articulate our emotions and our feelings in our generation your generation is younger than us even

like a lot of it's based on like western psychology it's based on uh western education systems and so like I because I think that you know there's because I have a child I'm often thinking about how I will communicate to him what's important to me and a lot of the And so like I, because I think that, you know, because I have a child and I'm often thinking about how I will communicate to him what's important to me. And a lot of the stuff is like I actually really liked that my parents

were probably a little bit strict with me and kept me quite close. Did you? Yeah, I think so because I think that it made me really respect them. And so if I was bullied at school

or my peers hated me, I didn't like go into a hole. I came home and my mum respected me and loved me and I was like, that's enough. And they made me feel like I was enough. I don't know, like it's funny, but you pick and my mum respected me and loved me and I was like that's enough and they made me feel

like I was enough I don't know like it's funny but you pick and choose the little bits of it but I found that really interesting that his mum

couldn't possibly accept his way of articulating his emotions because she was like I can't compete I can't understand it but I think that's part of communication

right like saying to an Indian I'm presuming it's Indian but saying to an Indian mum like boundaries well they're not going to understand that so why would you say that like there's no benefit you understand this chopple

exactly so you have to use language that they understand with words that they understand I like I really love a lot of things about my South Asian upbringing so I often think of it as like a really beautiful amalgamation I step back and I genuinely again it's the evaluation of what I believe in my life I go these are the things that I value from my South Asian upbringing that I want to carry on these are the things from my British upbringing that I value and I want to carry on and I see a lot of synergy in both of those and I think that is a privilege because a lot of people see kind of cognitive dissonance yeah or. Or feel cognitive dissonance. Yeah, which is most of my 20s. But I'm now actually where you are.

Very wise with your pearls of wisdom. Yeah, you really are. When I was 27, I was just like high. Yeah, I was just like a fucking waste man. I was like, yeah, let's get fucked. No, genuinely, I think I was like having a summer in France. I was not nervous. I mean, nowhere near.

No, not at all. So obviously growing up, you always see your mum as an adult. So you see her as a woman, you know, that idea of kind of an adult woman who has responsibilities. And that's your idea. That's your first woman that you kind of see and get to know. And do you feel like at any point now as an adult, looking over to your mum, you've seen her as like a girl?

For sure. And I think it's a seminal like experience in an grown-up's life which is when you become your parents parent when like the complete relationship dynamic changes of you know when you're a child it's like your parent looks after you and then suddenly and it happened for me pretty early on because of certain circumstances but like at 21 I was my mum and dad's parent I was my mum and dad's carer right like the relationship completely switched and so I actually think I've gone too much the other way in that I can be really paternalistic to both my parents

being like this is what you should eat this is when you should sleep this is your habits that you should be doing why have you got to that stage? Because I love them so much and I want to make sure that they're healthy. Same way the parents are strict. Same way they did it to you. So you're just mirroring it back to them. Do you think they like you being this strict? I think high level and low level.

So in a low level, no, because they're like, oh, she's so annoying. She's making me eat less meat and yeah you know go to the personal trainer twice a week whatever it is higher level I think they're so aware it's because I want them to be happy and healthy and live long so higher level they love going they love going to their friends like oh she booked me a PT for two times a week and it's basically us negging on our parents and bitching about them they're kind of doing it with you. Yeah, literally. Cultural universal. And, you know, I was so much kinder to my mum when I like fully clocked that,

holy shit, much like me, this is her first time doing life. She is a child always learning about life in the same way. Every experience I have, she's having it for the first time through me. Like through her child. Everything is new for her, much like it is for you. Because she never experienced it because she's obviously from a different generation. But equally, it's her first life. Sure, but she's had more time on the planet than you.

She's had more time on the planet. But I always think like, yeah, it's my mum's first time doing life too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, she gets to do it kind of again differently with you I think that's the yeah yeah it's funny because like I I've been filming myself a lot for my child so that when he's older I'll be like this is what I was like before you because I don't want to become so mum I don't want to become such a thing for you that you

don't get that I had this like whole life before you and that life was so fun that I wanted you in it yeah and I don't want you to ever I don't want you to so fun that I wanted you in it. Yeah. And I don't want you to ever, I don't want you to ever think that I brought you here because I thought things were bad. Like you were here because everything was so good. Oh my God, I love that.

I've never like even thought about it. That's so sweet. Yeah, I think that's like a big drive to have kids because you're just like, this is so cool, I want to share it with someone. But you know when you open up

like an old photo album which we, us Asians cherish, right? Because everything's on. But you know, you look at your mum or your dad before they were married and they're like, fuck, they look really cool. And my mum in a sari with her belly out and looking like a Bollywood actress. And I'm like, this is before she became mum and her identity and who she was and her silliness and love of life was stripped away. Or if you see pictures of them as like kids.

Yeah. I saw a picture of my mum at like four oh and I was like she's just sitting there like just a spoiler I was like what's going through that little girl's head like will she ever know she's gonna have her own little girl of her own and like she's done that but that's what I love with my grandparents ask I like when I was a child I was obsessed with knowing what my parents were like as children yeah I'd always be like what were they like tell me stories tell me funny stories about them growing up yeah obsessed with it yeah who are you most similar to your mom or your dad my mom and dad it's probably why they divorced

my mom and dad are like extremes okay on this like really really extreme on both ends so my dad is like a major introvert mother is an extrovert mom is super shameless dad is like a major introvert. Mother is an extrovert. Mum is super shameless. Dad is full of shame. Like all of these things. And I really think that like I may be the balance. Yeah. You probably are the most balanced person I've ever met in my life. So I couldn't really say that. You're very centered, very grounded.

I feel like a lot of like younger female guests that we bring on the show sort of shed a like turn the mirror on us and be like oh we're fucking crackpots what does that mean they're like progress because I was I was talking to my therapist and I was like therapists are shit you guys make people worse you're did you say that to her yeah yeah what did they say and he was like no I agree with you I think my therapists are awful which is why he stopped teaching um because he was like I see so many people that shouldn't be therapists and I said to him at one point I was really low and I was like how do I just like not feel thing how do I just be like the most balanced moderate person he goes so you just don't want to be human what are you trying to say like you don't want to experience life so balance is good but I actually think like

you feel alive when you have the extremes when you feel super sad and you feel super happy yeah like those can be turbulent things but it's like oh that's when we're most human I've spent a lot of time living in extremes so in my 30s going into my 40s I don't want to live in a constant state of flux yeah of extremes because this high low situation is yeah kind of how my mum and dad live and I'm like, nah. I want to level out now. It's time.

It's time. I mean, thank you so much for coming on. That was so good. It was such a joy to speak to you and yeah, we'll be coming to your play. Oh, I'll be there.

Yeah, we're definitely coming to your play. And now we are your Shaggy Aunties. A short one this week. I'm in a happy relationship over three years, but I constantly obsess over everything that could go wrong. What if he leaves me? What if he cheats?

I want to stop, but I worry that the minute I do, that's when everything will go wrong. Any advice on how to be a bit more chill? I want to enjoy my life. It's the like what what ifs yeah but babe three years and you're you're constantly obsessing I mean I think maybe maybe you need to maybe this is beyond the relationship maybe you need to actually talk to someone about it because it sounds deeper than I can understand I can understand this sort

of first three to six months in when you really, really, really like someone. You're like, fuck, what's going to happen? What if they go? What if they leave me? But three years, like, babe, he obviously loves you if he's still with you, right? I think I'm going to be really realistic. Things are going to go wrong. That's life.

That's experiencing. That's like totally being alive. Things will go wrong. No, but think. Like they will. They will go wrong. It might not be you break up. You're going to have problems in your relationship.

You're going to argue. Things in life will not go the way that you're expecting and that's fine that's like life I don't think don't think you should worry about that you don't want your life to go on some perfect thing but don't worry about problems until they're there yeah I know I I agree with what you're saying but I think it's it's she's in the obsessive like she's constantly thinking about where things could go wrong constantly all the time. And you're right. Your message I think is overall bigger picture.

Things will go wrong. You'll fall in and out of love. You'll meet partners. And that is, that is life. C'est la vie. But you obsessing over every detail constantly must be exhausting for you. And the fact that you're doing this three years in clearly is not good for you or for him.

Oh, I see. You're obsessing about all the details of your specific relationship with this person rather than like, I'm just obsessing about anything going wrong. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's obsessing about things going wrong now. Like now, like he could do this, he could do this. And I'm like, if you're still thinking about this

after three years, then maybe you should speak to someone about, because there's clearly something else there. What kind of, like, what is he not offering you that's not giving you that foundational trust to feel like safe

in a relationship? Maybe it's a trusting. I think a lot of relationships are about safety, like feeling like someone's your home and keeping you safe. And if you're suddenly like,

you'll ride or die, this doesn't feel stable. It feels like any minute anything could go wrong. Then yeah, you should speak to him as well and be like I'm not feeling

I don't feel confident in us I feel like something's going on but babe you're right he could leave you he could cheat like he could do any

he could do he could do all of those he could be faithful to you for five years and do those things on the sixth year or he could do none of those things and leave you tomorrow

or he could marry you live with you for 20 years have five kids with you and then cheat on you you just have no idea you don't know that's like love and being in a relationship is a big big kids with you, and then cheat on you. You just have no idea. You don't know. That's like love and being in a relationship is a big, big deal. But you take that gamble, don't you?

But advice on being a bit more chill, I would say, drink a smoothie. I understand where you're coming from. I think with new relationships, I used to be a bit like this. But you need to just, I think, let go a bit, trust in him and yourself a bit more. And what will happen will happen. It's inevitable. It is life.

Good luck. Thank you so much for listening. And as ever, if you have any thoughts or questions or you're stuck in a rut or your boyfriend isn't giving you any blowies or you're're not giving him any blowies, or anything of that nature, please contact the Shagney Aunties. You can email us at browngirlsdoittoo at bbc.co.uk. Or you can send us a WhatsApp or voice note to... 079-6800-8222. Bye.

Bye. I'm not a girl Not yet a woman Was that a bit fast? I'm not a girl Not yet a woman All I need is time Is this Britney Spears?

I think I'm fucking up this song Is it? I don't've fucking got the song. Is it? Oh, I don't know the rest of it. No, wait. Someone get the lyrics. Get the lyrics off, please. To open up my mind. Can you get the lyrics out?

Is it? Is it? Is it necessary? No, please. Brown girls do it too.