Brown Girls Do It Too - Poppy Revisits... Seema Anand

Episode Date: January 24, 2025

Does sex get better with age? Poppy and Rubina are joined by mythologist and storyteller, Seema Anand, who has sex advice from the ancient texts for all people, young and old.Have a message for Poppy and Rubina? If you’re over 16, you can message the BGDIT team via WhatsApp for free on 07968100822. Or email us at [e-mail] you're in the UK, for more BBC podcasts listen on BBC Sounds: bbc.in/3UjecF5

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello listeners. You can probably tell by my deep and booming voice that I'm Poppy J and not Rubina Pabani. But I have fantastic news. You'll be able to hear Rubina's bright and light voice very soon because I know you're all gagging for a new season of Brown Girls Do It Too, which is coming very soon. Expect laughter, thoughtful conversation with our guests and the Shagney aunties will be making a regular

appearance and they have been waiting to hear from you. So if you'd like to share anything that's been niggling away at you, then email browngirlsdoittoo at bbc.co.uk or if you're over 16, you can leave us a WhatsApp message on 0796810822. So I'm taking a trip down memory lane and sharing with you some of my favourite episodes from the last few seasons

of Brown Girls Do It Too. One particular guest who was standout was author and sexual health influencer Seema Anand. She was incredible. She's one of those people that walks into a room and commands attention. We loved having Seema on and it was an eye-opening experience for us because Rubina and I, we are in our 30s and we do this podcast about sex and relationships. And I'm not going to lie, in my head, and I think I speak for Rubina as well, when we get older, you have sex less, you know, self-pleasure, all of that, maybe because of our South Asian upbringing, you just have or experience less of it. And Seema was brilliant in that she was an older woman. She was in her 60s. She completely owned her age. She looked fabulous. She was fabulous. She owned her sensuality. She owned her sexual desires,

her self-pleasure. And she was teaching us about the Kama Sutra, which is this ancient book. We were focusing on the sex part, obviously. I think the way we see sex now, especially with porn, it can be very, it can be sometimes quite crass and crude. She taught us a way to be sensual and sexy and beautiful in a really discreet way that we just had not considered. She was so inspirational and she taught us that being sensual and feeling yourself and female sexual pleasure doesn't have to end when you get to a particular age. In fact, she was telling us that she was also on this journey of learning and you never really stop learning. Because what excited you and your body in your 20s and 30s is different to what will excite you in your 60s and 70s.

So, yeah, she was absolutely incredible. Here's Seema Anand to tell you the joys of sex. This podcast covers themes that would make your elders blush. So be warned, there is swearing and scenes of a sexual nature. We do tend to take it too far. So expect phrases that would lead your nanny to throw her chumple at you. Not in a kinky way. BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts.

Hello! If you didn't know already, and us naked in the thumbnail didn't give it away, this is a sex podcast. And if you can't tell from our voices, we're actually British Asian babes. We really are. I'm Robina.

I'm Poppy. And this is Brown Girls Do It Too. Brown Girls Do It Too. I'm Robina and when I'm old I'd like to find new uses for a zim frame. I'm Poppy and when I'm old I reckon I'll have four hip replacement operations for all the right reasons. In this episode, we're talking about sex and ageing and grey pubes. I actually have one already. Have you blocked it out?

No. I'm keeping it there. It's a wise old pube. Wow. Are you really keeping it? Are you just going to leave it there? I would like to go all grey down there, actually. Yeah, I think it could be a real statement.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you're like blonde up top, it doesn't match the carpet and the curtains thing. So you're going to keep it there to remind you of what's to come later yeah yeah I do dye my hair

actually but I am quite grey at the moment and a bit of me thinking what level do you you know when you're going grey you can go all the

way grey and I love it when you see women they own it they own it but that middle bit of going grey yeah it's the in between fuzz when you're waiting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They own it. They own it. But that middle bit of going grey. Yeah.

It's the in-between fuzz when you're waiting to wax or, you know. But your pubes, you can just let go of grey. Yeah. Are Asian women getting grey and still getting laid? Do you think that they're getting grey and still getting laid? I think I probably have some older women in my family who are, like, quite cheeky. When you say cheeky? Cheeky.

What does that mean, exactly? Like, sometimes they'll randomly throw some innuendos where they're chatting to me so i'm like oh i think oh my god i think that asian women are the naughtiest kinkiest filthiest like when i see a gaggle of aunties together the filth that comes out their mouth it's like it's like porn hub on speed cooking curry but without all the sex like it's just it's just all the stuff. Because I think that they're not allowed those spaces to talk about it openly. And when they get together, it is a bit like Brown Girls Do It Too podcast.

They're just having a little slumber party. I reckon a lot of them are still shagging, though. Yeah, but this is where it gets a bit dark. Like, are they shagging and happy about it? Are they shagging consensually? Are they shagging consensually? This is kind of what I think about my mother's age. I think for our generation it's different,

but for our mother's age, I can't bear to think about my mum and dad having sex. Actually, I'm a grown-up. I can. I really hope my parents are shagging and having really good, crazy sex. Do they want to have sex with each other? That's a different question. I don't know. I mean, you're one of six, so you know they did it at least six times.

At least six times over my lifetime, yes of six so you know they did it at least six times at least six times over my lifetime yes I hope each time they did it my mum came four times wouldn't that be nice

to know that your parents conceived on an orgasm for you yeah it's funny like you speak to most people and they're like oh I can't bear

to think about my parents having sex it's disgusting and I'm like no I can I want them to have a really healthy happy happy sex life. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because they argue most of the time. So if they're having a great sex life, at least they're doing something, right? Yeah. I mean, I do think your libido changes as you get older, though. I reckon, you know, you've got other stuff on your mind. Your body starts to get a bit more tired. You're taking naps in the afternoon.

Well, this is the thing. Like, I've never been able to ask an auntie, do you have sex at what age do you stop having sex because i know just from talking to you and you're younger than me you haven't you're not having sex but you have a new baby and i think that's the case with all mothers you you have a baby your life changes quite literally upside down yeah i reckon there's like a fallow period between like that kind of baby making scene until your kids are like five or six yeah to be honest i'm sure we'll start having way more sex once the baby

leaves our bedroom that's yeah that's gonna be them yeah when he's 18 he's not gonna leave your bedroom when he's 18 but but you know of course you will but like it's kind of sad isn't it i mean i don't think even white people have well maybe not all white people but we're not really allowed to ask aunties hey are you having sex do you have a lot of sex do you enjoy sex do you want sex are you thinking about your six six kids and running the household like what's it like i mean i i have a couple of aunties that are 100 love a bit of sex i can just tell i just tell from the way they speak to me. Yeah. They're like a little bit like, ooh. They're filthy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're naughty. As you said earlier, cheeky.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I was changing the nappy of my son in front of an auntie. Oh, God. The other day. Are we about to go into some dark territory here? Anyway, my auntie said, she said it in Kutchie, she said, And my partner was there and I looked at him, because my partner's now understanding a bit

of cutchy but he was like i don't know that one looking at me like what did you say and i was like she just said that our son has a big dick yeah it's like a childish word cutchy to be fair is the language of children can i be honest i'm not gonna lie when i saw when i met the little bubs and you were changing his nappy, I thought the same thing. Oh, no. I was like, he's going to be fine. Poor kid. But the fact that she said that to me in that kind of like cheeky way, I was like, what do you know about that? Yeah, exactly.

What have you seen? Yeah. What are you doing? Yeah. What are you thinking about? Right. Yeah. No.

Well, clearly she's thinking about dick. Are you an aunt? Because you've got loads of cousins. Are you an auntie now? Do you have auntie-like status? I have a nephew. Oh my God, of course, because your bro's got a kid. So you are an actual auntie.

I'm an actual auntie, yeah. Wow, I'm not an auntie yet. Oh, right, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I'm not a real auntie. Obviously, I'm like a fake auntie to the millions of cousins. I'm a proper illegitimate auntie in every single way. Wow, how do you feel about that? Because, you know, we spend so much of series one and two and our lives bitching about the auntie to like the millions of cousins. No yeah I'm a proper illegitimate auntie in every single way. Wow how do you feel about that because you know we spend so

much of series one and two and our lives bitching about the auntie network yeah yeah yeah. How are you going to be as an auntie? That's really interesting I haven't really thought about becoming an auntie I think I'm going to be like a cool auntie. Yeah. But I think this is the new wave of we are the new wave of aunties that are going to change

the way. I probably would give him shit if he was. A dick. If I could tell he was being a dick to people. But I just don't think he will be. He is gorgeous and sweet and he's one, so... I mean... He's got a long way to go before he turns into an asshole.

That's the right time to start judging him. That's what Asians do. No, but like, if you think about the legacy of aunties, and I know we... Men bash on this programme, but we actually do a fair amount of women bashing in terms of aunties because they know we like we men bash on this program but we actually do a fair amount of women

bashing in terms of aunties because they have made our lives difficult we are we are the new generation the the new frontier of aunties that are going to be doing things differently imagine a woke snowflake auntie yeah that's what we're looking at now it's gonna be really interesting I mean I probably will turn into a bit of a traditional auntie in some senses. Like, I want them to have good jobs, good careers, good relationships. So what if he comes up one day, you're a nephew, and says, I want to be a stripper. What are you going to do?

What are you going to say? I'll be like, your dad is going to kill you. Still an auntie. I'll be like, your dad's going to kill you. I don't know what to say to you you're going to be in trouble and if he chucks

you out of the house you can come live with me see that's how we've moved on I would be like you can come live with me

for sure 100% if him and his parents had any rift in any way and he needed somewhere to stay I would 100%

be like you can come stay with me for as long as you want take anything you want I'd look after him but I mean I just know his parents wouldn't do that yeah because actually this

generation isn't doing that whole like cutting anyone out really your brother would be okay with him being a stripper his come on your dad will kill you but this is good like we're moving the conversation on like 10 years ago he probably wouldn't even be able to say that to his dad and then can you you can imagine the uncle and auntie network going absolutely crazy. Oh, his son is a sex worker. You know, like, I mean, it'd be far worse than that for us, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I reckon I'd be a really cool auntie because I don't want to have kids. I would give everything to my siblings' children. And I already told them, if your son's gay or your daughter's a lesbian, she's living with me. And I think my sisters when their aunties are going to be like versions of my mum oh they're what they were i think they're way

more hardcore yeah yeah yeah i'm way more old school it would be like your dad's gonna kill you and i'm gonna kill you yeah and then i'm gonna start a group chat and bitch about you oh wow yeah really regressive i'm really sorry if they hear this but i really do think that they would do that yeah i mean i guess you don't know until you get into those situations because like I'm a new auntie and he's very young but actually if as a teenager he came up to me and asked me for advice I wonder if some of the stuff I tell him is quite traditional like I would be like yes be a doctor it's actually quite a smart decision like I wish I hadn't ever bailed him out so I didn't have to do fucking podcasts with Poppy J and I I could be, you know, neurosurgeon and like...

Mate, you know what I would tell my nieces and nephews? Go into banking. Like, if they were like, I want to be a musician or a poet, I'd be like, don't be an idiot. Go into banking. This is the only... But this is not me being an auntie.

This is just me being Asian. Go into banking, make money. Then do what you want. And then do... Then write your poetry. Because then you're not going to be selling the big issue and there's nothing wrong with that. But you've just got to be smart.

You've got to future-proof your life. But I think this is because we're all terrified about instability. And because we come from families which... We have the hang-ups of, I came to this country with three pounds in my pocket. We're that generation. We broke the mould so you can write your bloody

poetry and do spoken word, but go into banking first. Joining us in the studio today is a very special guest. She's a Kama Sutra expert. She wrote a book called The Arts of Seduction, and she is a hot older lady. Welcome Seema Anand. Thank you so much for joining us, Seema. Welcome to Brown Girls Do Anand. Thank you so much for joining us, Seema. Welcome to Brown Girls Do It Too. Thank you so much for having me. Can I just say, you look fabulous.

Your outfit has just lifted our spirits. I mean, where did you get this incredible dress from? I was in Malta until a couple of days ago and literally there was a shop on the side of the road. I was driving to the airport. I saw this in the window and I was like, no, wait, and the driver was like, but we're going to the side of the road. I was driving to the airport. I saw this in the window and I was like, no, wait. And the driver was like, but we're going to get late for the flight.

And I was like, I need that dress first. And it so happens that the bloody flight was delayed anyway. So at least you got the dress. Imagine the flight was delayed and you didn't get that dress. Absolutely. Yeah. There are some outfits that just like, you know, when the sun lifts your spirits. I'm just like, I just want to smile.

I want to grin from ear to ear. Thank you. Go on then so can you tell us how and when did you become a karma sutra expert i came upon the ancient erotic texts and i have to say this was 19 years ago i thought i was going to do like a 5000 word essay and move on you know academically speaking 19 years later I'm still over there because this is I have to tell you I mean I get really excited when I talk about the ancient erotic texts of India because I could just see you in an archive like looking through is it like is it like that is it like dusty kind of unfortunately there isn't enough stuff there but yes there's a lot of dust put it that way but it is so gorgeous you know the ancient kamshastra so there isn't just the one kamasutra

i have to say there are thousands but they're so beautiful and they're so gorgeous and they're so refined and they're so gracious and it just makes you want to go in further and think this is the pleasure that i have been shut away from. I want it back. And they're illustrated, right? They're like heavily illustrated or is that because it was modern? That's the modern Kama Sutras because there is so much more to the Kama Sutra than positions. But it's a treatise. So it's written in metaphor.

Most people don't understand what the rest of it is about. I'm going to tell you where my most exciting bit started and you'll see what I mean. Unfortunately, positions is the only word that people could understand, and hence they decided to illustrate that. But I'll tell you where the real excitement for me started. It was the day that I discovered that every position—the positions, by the way, are a tiny, tiny little section of the section on pleasure, which is— Kamsusra is written in seven sections. The section two is the only section that talks about the arts of pleasure. And positions is a tiny little chapter in that. But I discovered that women were taught how to execute these positions

by the jewelry that they would wear and how that jewelry moved on their body. So every position has a piece of jewelry. And I'm going to tell you the first one that I discovered, you'll see what I mean. So in ancient times, in any culture in ancient times, the woman was not allowed to be on top. Really? I would never come then? Yeah, because that was

supposed to be the... You would be totally, I'm sorry. Wow, so they would never be allowed on top? They weren't allowed on top because it was a position of power. Right. It was when you decided when you started or stopped. Okay. The Kamsutra, however, says you could be on top.

But it tells you that the right way to do this is you only move your hips. You don't move the upper part of your body. Okay. And so women would wear like a girdle with lots of bells on their upper waist. Right. And make sure that the bells didn't make a sound. Wow. That is so impressive.

That's kind of sexy and turning me on right now. That's like belly dancing on penis, basically, right? So you literally had to put something around you that made a sound. So if you moved, you knew you were moving the wrong part of your body. Yeah. So basically, this was, I guess this is something that the very accomplished courtesans might have done. But it also became a metaphor.

So in our ancient literature, you never say, oh, she climbed up on top and then she humped her weight or not. You don't. You just say she put on her jingling girdle. And you know what she's going to do. I'm putting on my jingling girdle tonight. Lol. I've got to say though, that requires, yeah, like a courtesan, as you say, and you know what she's going to do I'm putting on my jingling girdle tonight lol

I've got to say though that requires yeah like a courtesan as you say like somebody with a lot of skill because when I go on top I use my upper body strength to lift myself up

but then also to I think I could be a courtesan because I'm mostly just grinding those hips oh wow yeah I'm not using I'm like flat like this and then just moving my hips that is amazing yeah I'm not using, I'm like flat like this and then just moving my hips.

That is amazing. Yeah, I'm not using any of my upper body. Oh, wow. That's impressive. I think when you move your upper body, maybe, one, the angle of penetration changes, so it's not as exciting. And also, maybe it's not so good for your back. So, yeah, try that. True.

Interesting. So, that is insane. So, like, every position had a piece of jewelry. I mean, do you want to hear about one that is my favorite? I mean, this is the first and I love it. But the one that I really like is where for the sitting position, they would wear a seven string necklace of pearls. And it was supposed to move very slightly back and forth as you made love because it would give your lover a glimpse of your beautiful breasts. But then it goes on to

say yeah and this is the confusing part and this is why it's taken me so many years to understand these things it says that the woman from the village will sit on the lap but the woman from the town the urbane woman the sophisticated woman will sit on the knees and you think how the hell are you going to sit on the knees i mean like yeah how's that how do you so then i figured like i said after many it took me about four years to find the answer to that you basically after you penetrate you lean back you put your hands on the man's knees and then you lift your bottom up okay you understand because if you're right there right up close then all you're going to do is bounce up and down those pearls are not really going to swing from side to side are they so you lift yourself up your hips are now up you can move and you move according to

so you basically just make the pearls move back and forth and that actually goes with the right kind of wow this must have been the original pearl necklace you know that phrase the pearl necklace this must be the origin it must be yeah now that's like a porn term where something like comes on your chest yeah i mean the karma sutra to me is an enigma because it was written, what, over 2,000 years ago. It was written by a male priest, right? That's what they say, but I'm very convinced that it was actually probably written by women. Women, okay. Also because, like I said, the book was written for men, young, urbane, wealthy men,

to teach them how to live their best life socially. So it really, the first section is on how to build your house, how many rooms you should have, how you're decorated, how many hours should be spent on bathing and perfuming yourself. Because the commentary is also about life. It's a lifestyle manual. It's a lifestyle manual, so it's not just about sex. Okay, I thought the entire volume was just about sex, but it's about...

It's about all sorts of things. How to find the right kind of wife, how to marry the right kind, you know, and so on. Section two talks about pleasure. Okay. And it's the only section which, and I personally think that was actually written to change the narrative of women, because even 2,000 years ago, there were plenty of misogynistic texts. It's not that everything was just wonderful for women. So they try and change this idea

and they're trying to teach men how their life is going to be better if their female partner gets full pleasure. So it's all about how to- It's all about female pleasure, how to female, yes. It was a path to heaven. And it actually goes so far as to tell them, It's all about female pleasure. How to female, yes. It was a path to heaven. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it actually goes so far as to tell them, you know, your work life will get better. Your business will be better if you can pleasure your woman. If your wife can come. Yeah. Do you know what? That's a philosophy I definitely run by. When women talk to me about, like, what can I do to empower myself? I'm like, just masturbate.

Make yourself feel good. That's the one thing you can control. You can get instant kind of gratification from that from yourself. I totally see that. I really want to hear a bit more about you actually seema and like what so you got to this journey where you're obviously like incredibly knowledgeable about the karma sutra but also like a bit about your sex life and your and your kind of sexual awakening have you always been this kind of open and honest about sex because it's so refreshing and wonderful to see you here talking talking to us like this because my mum would never talk to me like this.

No, I haven't always felt like this, I have to say. So I come from a really unusual family where my great-grandmother was a working woman, my grandmother was, you know, they were all professionals and my mother's always worked. And so we kind of grew up in a family where we knew that women have, never have to fight for their place in society. But nobody ever really talked about pleasure in this manner. And I think that was the one area that you always fall down on because you think, yeah, I have the right to go and work. I have the right to go study.

I can do anything I want. I can be brilliant at it. But you're never told about pleasure. And that's the one place where you can really be put down. And this, like I said, was a bit of an epiphany when I actually started to study the erotic texts. And it suddenly, it came as an awakening one day about, you know, you suddenly open up these channels in your brain which say, actually, I'm worthy of that pleasure. It's a good thing. I know I feel it, but I know I have to feel it the way I want to feel it. I can't be told how to feel it.

And that's what had been happening all my life, where I'd been told, this is how it's done. So in previous sexual relationships prior to this SEMA awakening section, did you feel like your sexual experiences were all quite one-sided or guided? They were very one-sided. And I also remember, you know, because when you feel that sap run through you, you know, when that pleasure gets, well, it gets to your brain, you're aroused, you want to be able to do certain things. And I found that a lot of the guys that I was with would get really intimidated. They'd get really frightened. And I also wanted it to last much longer. I mean, I was aroused for a lot longer than they were.

And they would be like, oh, I can't see this woman again. You know, that's it, I'm done. And now I realize that it's okay because again, like the Kamsutra says, that a man's pleasure is like fire. It starts down below and it goes upwards. And like fire, it's very easy to start and very easy to put out.

A woman's pleasure is like water. It starts up here in the head and it flows down. And like water, it takes forever to come to the boil and it takes forever to cool down. So I'm okay to be aroused for a very long time. That's a good metaphor for a woman. That's so true. Because the way I come now, it's a mental stimulation. It all starts up here.

Because before, between my ex-husband and my ex-partner, I used to be a bit of a cum machine. I would just cum all the time. But now, I've become newly single. I've not been orgasming with any of the men because actually, rather inconveniently, it's an emotional connection and it all starts here. And then it goes down. Oh, my God.

Mic drop. That's really just put a whole new phrase on there. Come on, baby, light my fire. Boil my water. Come on, baby, boil my water. Come on, baby, boil my water. Do you think we've changed the vocabulary? Yeah.

Start boiling the water. I mean, the other thing that we, me and Rubina, often talk about is that we are obviously going to get older. And something that we don't do in our community is, I think not in just our community, in society, is talk about the elderly in sex. Like older people, they are definitely having sex. But it's just something that is not talked about. Oh, God, yeah. I mean, I'm 60. And you look fabulous, by the way. Thank you.

I was waiting for that. No, no. Our jaws were on the floor when you walked in. Oh, thank you. You're so sweet. No, but I get this. This is one of the biggest section of trolling that comes to me. It's like, you're talking about it at this age.

Shouldn't you be now focusing on praying and going to the temple? I'm sorry, is there an age to pray and go to the temple? And damn you, no, there is no age at which I have to stop saying that I don't need pleasure. I mean, why should I not feel that I need pleasure? But a lot of women of my time, of my peer group, were taught that you get to a certain age and you're not supposed to have pleasure do you feel like your sex drive or your libido has changed as you've gotten older because i've just had a baby and i feel like the hormones that rush through you after that and everything i feel like my libido is just kind of i mean i'm not sleeping

you know like everything around it just made me just be like oh i don't feel sexy and everything's just kind of dipped but then i wonder if there's different phases that women go through actually then I kind of will because a lot of I don't know maybe this is like an old wives tale old wives tale great phrase for this episode um is that the whole idea of like a woman's sexual prime is much later and a man's sexual prime is like when he's like 18 a woman's sexual prime does come a lot later but I have to tell you that I think our sexual organs have a great deal of intelligence. People don't realize that, but everything that goes on in your head actually manifests in the vagina. You know, it understands when it feels pain.

It understands when it's feeling happy. It understands when you are feeling unhappy or miserable or you could make up and get dressed and if you're feeling shit on the inside you are not going to have good sex yeah you're not going to have arousal if you're bloated you're not going to have good sex you know that's why i never have sex at night because i've just had a massive meal yeah you can't it actually it actually says that well actually the kamasutra says that you don't have uh food sex, you always eat it after. And then it tells you how to eat it. This Kama Sutra. This whole dating,

this modern dating of like, let's go on a date, let's go for dinner. Don't do that. I never do dinner on dates. Get drunk, have sex, then eat McDonald's. And then eat McDonald's. Solo, because I've chucked them out. You could have dinner, really nice dinner,

but wait for two hours for the digestion. Yeah. So if you think about your sexual journey from your 20s to your 30s to now, do you feel that you are more sexually awakened now, sexually aroused now? Are you having more sex? Are you having more sex or less sex?

Because in society, in drama, in music, in everything we consume, certainly in my perspective, and in my echo chambers, sadly, you just don't see older people talking about sex, having sex. It's one of those things that is just... Unless it's a very specific tab on Pornhub, which is like, you know,

grannies I like to fuck, basically. But so, can you, and I know, and this is slightly embarrassing on my part, but that's why we've got you on this podcast. Please, can you bust these myths? Because it's just something that we don't talk about even more so than just generally brown people talking about sex.

So I think what's happened with me is that I've actually become more aware of my pleasure. So it's better pleasure than more necessarily so it's not about frequency it's not about quantity it's about quality yeah so i understand what turns me on i understand what makes me feel good understand how good i feel when i'm doing a bit so it doesn't necessarily have we always define sex as penetration i always think that we need to change the vocabulary oh definitely so sex can be so much more. Yeah.

But, you know, sometimes you could just have the biggest orgasms doing something completely different, you know. I don't know, kissing or, you know, being with somebody. I've had the best orgasms myself. Yeah. Sometimes even conversations. So you've had an orgasm kissing someone? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I haven't, but I've heard about this. So you're kissing someone on the mouth and you're orgasming down there. Yeah. No, I've never done that. What's that? I've never heard of it. I've never experienced it, but I've read that people can.

So, you know, this is what I mean, that as you become more aware of your own pleasure zones, every part of your body is an erogenous zone. Just depends on how you treat it. Yeah, interesting. is an erogenous zone just depends on how you treat it yeah okay so every bit of you can bring you to pleasure it just depends on what you're doing and how you're feeling at that point have you ever woken up thinking you've had an orgasm and woken up from a dream and been like i'm pretty sure i had a wet dream yeah and a lot of times i i realize i'm having that orgasm and I try not to wake myself up and I try and continue. Stay in the dream.

Yeah. Like keep the dream. Yeah, so women can do that, right? Because I've definitely had it and then woken up and been like, wow, I don't know what happened. I like had a sexy dream and I just really went for it. Yeah. And also I think I'm a bit of a pervert in my dreams because sometimes when the dream gets a bit scary or weird, I'm just like, oh my God, quick, have sex with someone. That will sort it out.

Yeah, I do the exact same. I often have like dream scenarios where I'm like, who wants to have sex with me? I do exactly the same. What's that about? I wonder what the kind of underlying thing is there. Like if the dream gets like, it's like maybe turning into a nightmare, I quickly try and rein it back in and be like,

someone wants to have sex with me. And I always go sex, yeah. Yeah, I do the exact same things. So, Seema, I'm in my 30s and I already feel the ageist pressure of society, not just in the brown community, but society in general, on me. So I can't... And I suppose a part of me is dreading getting older

because if I'm feeling this now, and I fight it all the time, I think I'm quite similar to you in a lot of ways. I do what I want. I don't give a fuck. I refuse to be defined by my age. But I feel like everyone around me constantly defines me by my age and what I should be doing at this time, you know, at this time. Well, you'll find that actually society is quite happy to define what you should be doing at any age because if you're younger but you're not married then you're not supposed to feel pleasure yeah if you're married and no matter how young you are then you're supposed to feel pleasure but only when your husband feels pleasure but if you're

really young you're married and you've had a child you're not supposed to feel pleasure because now you have a child yeah you know so yeah i'm sorry but there comes a point when you're like okay um this is why i went out to look for the literature anyway, because it's like, surely there was a time when, or there was somebody who ever said, you know what, you're a woman, you're allowed to feel pleasure. It is your right. Absolutely. if there are any men listening it's like do yourself a favor because if you pleasure the woman you we're going to pleasure you we're going to come back for you four times it's it's just it's so simple isn't it if you make me happy i will do everything to me i mean we do that anyway in society but like i'm so prepped and primed and ready to do anything for you but just get me there first you know so um i just put up this post on instagram about so the kamasutra has an entire chapter on it's called the art of the curved finger so it says that you

know when you use the fingers to pleasure a woman so basically the different combinations of fingers because women don't have just the one g spot incidentally we have approximately between 22 and 24 so it's like an Aladdin's cave oh inside the vagina yeah one for every hour of the day yeah it's like it's very hard to go wrong I also think um South Asians specifically and I this might not be correct in any way have really beautiful hands and a lot of our culture is about our hands it's about eating with our hands it's about cooking roti with our hands yeah and i just think asian indian hands are just so beautiful like kathak dancing yeah

like a real like artistry of our hands and we're very connected to them and i love this has just given me a whole new perspective on getting fingered yeah right yeah it's like actually i don't think i've ever been fingered with any other finger except those two. Except the gun friend's fingers. Yeah. So apparently the index finger is an absolute no-no on its own. Yeah, it does nothing for me. On its own.

On its own. On its own. But you know that shit. It needs its mate. But most people are kind of like, they will attack the woman with that one finger and then really kind of go for it. Men love a jab.

Jab, jab, jab. Jab, jab, jab. It's not a doorbell. So this, they say, all that's going to do is it's going to agitate you. It's not going to pleasure the woman. So don't use this index finger on it. Are we saying like go in, curve, and then I like a bit of thumb action. Thumb action.

Yes, yes. Bit of that, bit of that. Do you know what? I've never had anyone just put the thumb in. I've had that. Just the thumb? Last night yes. Bit of that, bit of that. Do you know what? I've never had anyone just put the thumb in. I've had that. Just the thumb? Last night. Didn't do anything for me.

Right. But thumb going down. The hand from the top. Thumb going down and hand, yeah. Like a kind of castanet. Yeah, yeah. I like four fingers. Hackman.

Four fingers. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you ever been fisted? Is that when the whole hand goes in? It's when the fist goes in. The fist goes in. But does it go in like that? Or does it go fingers first, thumb up, yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you ever been fisted? Is that when the whole hand goes in? It's when the fist goes in. The fist goes in. But does it go in like that? Or does it go fingers first,

thumb up, pop, in like that? No. I don't know whether you could actually do that. No, I've never been fisted. I think you'd need to wind your way in. I've had like a semi-fist. I've had this go in. Oh, yeah.

This is fine. No, no, no. Stop! So all the fingers kind of going conical and going in yeah that's okay but no no no guys guys guys this is the whole this is the situation i've had that nothing beyond that but that would not be nice that doesn't oh no i loved it really yeah i mean like you need to do stuff no i've had in terms of like amount or like girth of the finger, I've had this much go in. But it's far more exciting when it's four fingers and curved.

There's a lot of people who actually like the curved finger. I love that. It's wonderful. So a lot of these are actually mudras. They would have been used in dance anyway. Because they have different... So there's one particular one that we talked about and I um you know with three fingers and it's called the Madan Kush the Madan Kush which means the hook of the love god and so the Kush is what you would use normally like a

goad uh you know when when you have an elephant that you're riding so that's so it's the the Kush is the the goad the hook so this is called the Madan So it's the kush is the hook. So this is called the Madan Kush, which is the hook of the love god. And it's just, you know, this whole idea that you would also use that same finger movement in dance to indicate that, you know, I am hooking you to me. I'm sort of bringing you to me. That's so luring, isn't it? Come to me. Come to me.

I love how you're still doing gun fingers. It's a hook, babe. Turn it into a hook, please. It's Pirates of the Caribbean. Oh, my God. I'm learning so much. I really wish I could have sex with myself, not masturbating,

but I would love to know what my insides feel like on a man. Because I always ask. I'm like, what do I feel like inside? And they're like warm and soft yeah yeah like do you know what i mean like yeah no i have once asked my partner what it feels like to make me come yeah uh and i remember he used this really interesting turn of phrase where he was like it's like touching a boiled sweet and then like and then like it getting to the center

of a boiled sweet like there's a warm goo of a boiled sweet inside yes so it's like because you know you stimulate the clitoris and it gets hard so it's like boiled sweet yes and then it kind of it oozes

yeah it oozes I love that this guy asked he said it's like oozing it's like a soft release of an ooze and I was like I'd love to know

you kind of have a vague idea you can't put your fingers inside yourself get your hook out yeah get your crush out but I'm talking about the the nerve endings here are not the same as my nerve endings inside so not as incredible

see it'd be great to hear from you about the different stages of your life and how your kind of sexual journeys happened and whether you're feeling more promiscuous than you were back then and yeah and if you have any advice for women as we get older or older women any older women that are listening uh to kind of talk to them about their sex lives. So I think the very first thing that I want to say is that we grow up with all of this baggage, you know, that as you get older, you're not supposed to feel sexual. You're not supposed to feel pleasure. That's absolute crap because you have it within you to feel an incredible amount of pleasure. It should be like eating chocolate.

You should be able to feel pleasure for the rest of your life. It's just that it changes as you get older. So if I could have an entire chocolate cake when I was in my 20s, now I can have a slice and leave me wanting a little bit more. But if I have any more, I'm going to end up with bloating. So, you know, you kind of learn to deal with the changes in your body and your sexuality and your needs as you get older. So the first thing that I want you to know is that you will feel pleasure. There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeling pleasure. You will slow down. So it's not about throwing yourself on somebody and sort of gnawing your way, you know, to an orgasm.

It's going to be slower, which is going to be more pleasant. That is absolutely okay. As a matter of fact, the Kama Sutra says, again, I love the Kama Sutra. I think it's a great text. It says that, you know, people have this thing about, oh, we don't have any chemistry anymore. No, that goes very, very quickly, no matter how many partners you change. The best sex is with somebody that you have known for a long, long time because there's a comfort factor attached to it. And trust me, as you get older, the comfort is what it's about. I no longer want to be in the back of a car. I don't want to be made uncomfortable. I want a nice, clean bed. I don't want to be looking over my shoulder and thinking, oh my God, is somebody going to come in?

And, you know, so give yourself the time. It does take more time, but give yourself the time. Say to yourself that you're going to use that time to pleasure yourself and don't put yourself on the clock. So that's a really, really important thing. The second thing is there is this thing that people have about aphrodisiacs and again the kamasutra says there's no such thing that you can eat that's like pressing a button and suddenly you're like whoa i'm an amazing lover and i'm gonna have a great orgasm that's not how it works the best kind of aphrodisiacs that you can have are what will

release your wind so you have less bloating as As you get older, bloating is a real issue. Bloating is a problem for me now, Seema. Yeah, it gets worse as you get older. Oh, great. Yeah, it does. So have things that's going to make you feel less bloated because that's where your arousal depends on. You know, it's the blood flow to the genitals.

If you're bloated, you're not going to have blood flow to the genitals. It actually stops you feeling aroused. And thirdly, if you really, really want that, but you don't know how to go for it, not porn. I never recommend porn because I just think it does horrible things to your brain. But there's a lot of audio podcasts out there that have guided self-pleasure podcasts. And if all you want to do is clench your thighs together in order to be able to come, just to get you back in the zone, do that. Just do that. But don't deprive yourself of the pleasure because truly it's so beneficial.

It does keep your brain working better. I'm told it helps to stave off dementia. It's worth it, right? Yeah. I'm Seema. And when I'm older, I want to be able to find people who can kiss better because I think through my life, I've had really shit kissers.

And I think that's one of the things that really, really does it for me. So yeah, I want to find people who are really much better at kissing. I want there to be a school for kissing. I want people to go and learn how to kiss properly. Kissing with tongues? What's your preference?

Do you like tongues or are you just lips? Okay, so now according to the Kama Sutra again, it says that when you start the kiss, you should start from the left corner of the mouth and then go in very, very gradually on the lower lip, sort of giving it little nibbles and little tiny pecks and coming in and out just a little bit. And you know what? And then just rubbing the lower lip against your lower lip because the less the touch, the more

sensitized that area becomes and the more the anticipation, the more you're waiting for it. People who stick their tongue down their partner's throat need to be slapped really hard. You know what it is? You're so right. It's the jabbing thing again. Or the washing machine. It's like constantly going to the mains without starting the start, you know,

like let's start with the starters and work our way and it's the constant jabbing of the finger, jabbing of the penis, let's stick our tongues down our throat. And it's like, you almost want to increase the senses and it's the nibbles and the bites and the kissing. And the bearish touch. Yeah, it's the bearish.

Oh, I love all that shit. Again, it also says that you don't hold them during this time. The only touch should be that you wrap one finger around one strand of their head just to keep the head in place. How gorgeous is that? I'm so trying that tonight, by the way. I am trying that. Well, thank you so much,

Seema. It's been absolutely revelatory. I've loved it. Educational. And I cannot wait to get older. Yeah, I really can't. If I could look like you and be you, everything else no, but you. I'm going to try all of your tips. thank you for interpreting the karma sutra oh yeah there's way more to the karma sutra that like to be to be explored so yeah if you're listening it sounds like it's a big mine that you're still discovering

yourself absolutely thank you so much discovering and thank you for having me i am very interested to know what people think about this topic, though. Yes, me too. If you have any thoughts, anything that you want to share with us, do email us at browngirlsdoittoo at bbc.co.uk. And please do subscribe to the podcast on BBC Sounds.