Brown Girls Do It Too - Rawdogging

Episode Date: July 26, 2024

Poppy and Rubina dissect the latest online trend - rawdogging! What does it mean, why are so many men attempting it and could they do it?Have a message for Poppy and Rubina or a new online trend that you want them to try? If you’re over 16, you can message the BGDIT team via WhatsApp for free on 07968100822. Or email us at [e-mail] you're in the UK, for more BBC podcasts listen on BBC Sounds: bbc.in/3UjecF5

BBC Sounds music radio podcasts ooh it smells like up sexy in here what's up sexy?

nothing much you? this episode will contain strong language adult content and bad jokes I got it now so I was like

I wasn't getting it and now I just got it this is a podcast about sex at least it started off like that now we talk about everything everything is sex This is a podcast about sex. At least it started off like that. Now we talk about everything. Everything is sex.

And sex is everything. And that includes our mistakes, our heartbreaks, and our hot, hot, hot, hot takes. See? Our chart. Chart, chart, chart. I think about chart every time you say that. Maybe you want chart, because the most of chart's really good. I love the samosa chart. With the kind of tamarind sauce?

Everything, all of it. The yogurt, the cleavage. The green sauce. What's in the green sauce? I never know. What is in the green sauce? Nobody knows. Is it mint sauce?

It's a mint sauce. Nobody knows. Two of us are like, mint sauce? Idiot. Brown girls do it too. I'm Poppy, and if I'm left alone

with my own thoughts, I don't sleep. Oh. Yeah. I think I know that about you. I'm Poppy and if I'm left alone with my own thoughts, I don't sleep. Oh, yeah. I think I know that about you. I'm Rubina and if I'm left with my own thoughts, I tend to start to panic. Yeah, I know that about you too. Poppy, I wanted to do this episode today about raw dogging. Do you know what that is? Is it having sex without a condom

or going as long as you can? I don't know. I mean, there must be like a sexy thing. I'm sure raw dogging has sexual connotations. A hundred percent. A hundred. Probably started out that way. While raw dogging originated as slang

for unprotected sex, it's become a shorthand for doing anything without usual preparation what the fuck no it's basically this it's like it's a power move when you can raw dog it's like this amazing feat of discipline right you still haven't told me what it actually is well it's basically like being able to do nothing right when everyone else is busy doing something whoa okay so like the big thing that's caught on the internet at the moment is it's mostly around men Right. When everyone else is busy doing something. Whoa. Okay. So like the big thing that's caught on the internet at the moment is,

it's mostly around men as well, because they all need to like compare dick sizes. Yeah. Where they go on like long haul flights and they do nothing. They just stare at that like Ryanair safety. Well, if they're on a Ryanair flight, that's not long haul. That's maximum price. Yeah, you're so right. We both know that.

Okay, long haul flight. Actual long haul flight. They're just staring at the back of someone's chair. We're That's maximum price. Yeah, you're so right. We both know that. Okay, long haul flight. Actual long haul flight. They're just staring at the back of someone's chair. We're talking six hours plus. Yeah. That is mental. Are they sleeping? No, they're just like staring.

Why the fuck are they doing that? To show that this great feat of physical mental, it's more mental discipline, isn't it really? Of like, I can do nothing. And all of you are so weak. You have to have your stimulation with your Instagram. You have to have your stimulation with your Instagram. You have to have your stimulation with your books, your movie, your rom-coms.

You're looking out the window. I'm not even looking out the window. I'm not even looking out the window. They are literally doing nothing. It's like the stillness in the nothing. So hang on. They're doing it because they don't even eat or drink. Just nothing.

It's like that is fucking stupid. Why would you not eat and drink? For eight hours it's too long. It is fucking stupid. Why would you not eat and drink? For eight hours, it's too long. That's so stupid. Can I say something? I understand one aspect of it, the doing nothing, that I choose not to be stimulated because I need to be stimulated at all times. I think that is my problem and the problem with society today.

So I respect that and I rate that. But like any trend, it's gone so far the other way when you're not eating eating and drinking like what are you trying to prove is this something to do with male masculinity and like some sort of like tapping into like competition and I can do nothing therefore I'm strong I'm a strong man are these all incels kind of yeah I mean it is kind of yeah so like the movement was apparently led by centre right kind of white men online. As all movements start.

But I think it's what it taps into for me, which I think is really interesting, is this idea that like you can control your own mind. And I think this is this is the other thing. It's like raw dogging is a bit of an element of trying to get people to do all the same thing online. I would find it very freaky if I was on a long haul flight and I just saw a man. I'd find it really scary. if I was on a long-haul flight and I just saw a man. I'd find it really staring into space. I'd be like serial killer. Yeah, well, I'd probably tell the air stewardess and stewards.

Oh, you'd report it? I'd see it, say it's sorted. See it, say it's sorted. See that guy in C-16. I think something's wrong with him. Yeah. He might take over the flight and kill us all. So they just sit there alone in their thoughts.

There is something that I admire about that. And I think I need to probably do a bit of that. I just, what is the greater purpose? What's the payoff? What are they, are they trying to prove to themselves, to each other? Are they doing it so then they can then go online

and say that they've done this thing? Multi-level, all of those things. Prove it to themselves that they have the discipline to do it. Show everyone else on the plane that they're all weak, that we all need ultimate things. And I've got this amazing mental strength. So how long will this last? They are going to go back to their phones on Pornhub, wanking furiously in no time. Well, that's part of it. That's part of it. Because raw dogging isn't just about flights. It's about taking these moments to be like,

like I watched this video the other day, which was like, no dieting, no wanking, no this, no that. Just like cutting out everything, like having a life of nothingness. Wow. Do you think you could be on a flight looking at... Fuck no. I can do, I think if I'm honest, I'm just going to compare me and you. I think I'm probably better at being off my phone for longer than you. Yes, yes, I would agree.

I'd say maybe that. Yeah. But not much better. Like I think I could probably sustain like an hour longer than you yeah but then I want my phone too yeah yeah there is there is something about being on a plane as well specifically which is you could die at any moment right and so part of your plane brain is like oh well this is it and you want to reflect on that a bit so something could be there with the raw dog is that they're just like really self-reflecting on life because being on a plane is a little bit about death i bet you any money they are just thinking about all the content

they're going to put up the moment they land like what they're going to say you don't think it's interesting or respectful or not respectful like a commendable in any way that this has become a thing? I think it's... I just think about the intention. Like, you said they were doing it because it's a one-upmanship. It's to show the other guy or their friends that I can do this. So then if you're showing other people, what are you doing for your... Are you doing it for you? If you're not doing it for you if you're not doing it for yourself you're doing it for someone else well forget about the intention I guess do you think it's an impressive feat

to be able to do it like like you definitely couldn't do it I'm sorry and now that you've challenged me I want to do it see now it's interesting isn't it you just couldn't do it I definitely couldn't do it no no see you definitely couldn't do it no I see now you definitely couldn't do it now you've challenged me now I'm like you couldn't do it. I definitely couldn't do it. No, no, no. You definitely couldn't do it. Bro, you definitely couldn't do it. Now you've challenged me. Now I'm like... You couldn't even sit still here for like 10 minutes without talking to anyone.

Book me a flight to Philippines and we'll fucking see. Also, I need to know there's a competition. I need to know there's something. Pay off. Am I going to get money? Am I going to get kudos? Am I going to... I can see the benefits of it

but why do it on a flight? Why not do it at home? Why not do it? No, they are doing it at home. Some of them are doing it just like in other spaces but the flight thing has become a thing.

The trend. I just think it's just like another fad. I really do. Look, there's an element of it that I'm like, great. This is good. I can't wait for this a clip of this to go up

and then I'll probably get fucking absolutely pummeled by these raw doggers. You're going to get dogged. I'm going to get dogged. There's an element of it that I'm like, okay, I can really see the value in it. It's this idea of concentrating on one thing for the whole time.

And it's something about almost, it's a kind of like mindfulness. Maybe actually it's reframing mindfulness and staying in the whole time. And it's something about almost, it's a kind of like mindfulness. Maybe actually it's reframing mindfulness and like staying in the exact moment. See, that's when you first described it to me, I was like, oh, it's like mindfulness, it's meditation. It's like those silent retreats you go on, right? But I just think these men are doing it

to show each other up or to show, A, to show that they can do it and there's nothing wrong with that. But the ultimate goal is, it's a bit like when something happens to you and you can't wait to tell your friend as opposed something amazing happens to you and sometimes you want to keep it for yourself

because you know you've done it. Yeah. You know, like not everything is meant to be shared. And like, if you're doing this and you want to share it, I'm questioning your intentions. If you're doing this and it's an experience that you want to explore and see and you want to push your own boundaries

and you want to keep it to yourself, I've got mad respect for you. What if a guy on a dating profile was like, interests are wine and raw dogging.

Would you say yes or no? I'd say yes to anything. No, I'm joking. I wouldn't say, I mean, if there were... You'd say yes because you'd be like, I don't know what you mean.

And I want to find out. Yeah, yeah. And I think it was about sex right but I would just think what a lame fucking thing to put on your profile

like George Michael gave money to charity constantly where is this going no one knew right till he died

no one knew that he was such a massive philanthropist and isn't that so cool like he was so I don't know where this is going myself to be honest i really liked it it was such a great jump what i'm saying is if you're gonna raw dog keep it to yourself keep it to yourself i need to know i don't care i do care but like isn't it cool i would expect it more if you did nothing

and told no one and told no one do you know what i mean like why are you telling me i haven't seen any raw doggers on my hinge at the moment. It's coming. It's like the trad wives thing we did. Is that still going? Do people care about now? Oh, yeah. Oh, my God.

Can I just say, after we did that, we did an R.S. Smith mock video and then there was like hundreds online. Wow. And this woman at work keeps coming up to me being like, your trad wives episode was like so ahead of the curve. Every time you guys speak, you're so ahead of the curve. Hopefully they're not going to listen to this because i'm not sure we are but but i the trad wife i mean i suppose the trad wife thing taps into like women feminism and it's an extreme thing right

trad wives are about like hyper femininity yeah and rawdon is about hyper masculinity is it about hyper masculinity yes about doing nothing yeah it's like a feat of strength it's it's it's rooted in that world but women could do nothing why why they're not though i mean like i think it is really about mindfulness and really about like just being present in the moment and because like guys unfortunately have to like like guys have a lot of society's weight on their shoulders just different to women and something about this is like yeah take that moment to reflect but don't you know package up in this weird trend do you think that's what they're doing basically so what we do we women sit in our thoughts all the fucking time but what they're doing is they're sitting in their thoughts but instead of being like i'm feeling i'm getting

in touch with my emotions and my thoughts and my feelings they're like raw dogging yeah yeah it has to be like a kind of really physical mental feat to be by yourself and they turn it into a game don't they they turn it into a challenge gamification yeah yeah you're right so maybe that's it i mean i just think guys you can just look out the window and have a single teardrop fall from your cheeks we'll find that just as sexy i will find find that sexy. I would not find a guy, this is an ick where a guy needs too much stuff. Do you know what I mean?

Like, I can only travel because I need this, this, this and this and this. I actually weirdly find men who are very, very organised. That's very different. That's very, that's sexy. That's it.

I find that sexy. One time I was on a flight and I saw this guy and he had his backpack and he had his backpack and he put his backpack out in front of him and unzipped it and when he opened

the backpack there were also like multiple mini backpacks or like little bags of things in his bag that's too much and it was like each bag had like

a specific thing in it one was like toothbrush bits toiletries one was like underwear bits and he was just like going through

trying to find what he needed for the flight so I'm like not that organised but I was like god this is really but I don't through trying to find what he needed for the fuck so I'm like not that organised but I was like god this is but I don't think

that's really telling because that's how he has sex organised doesn't get the sheets dirty has sex on a Monday Friday Saturday

that's it Monday Friday Saturday three times a week but I find that really difficult because I would say what's tricky about that is my partner

is a bit of a slob but he's also really good in bed and he's a really like sloppy sexy kisser so you'd rather that but he's a bit of a slob like he just is and I'm a bit of a slob too I think I'm a bit of a slob too I'm rather a slob but he's also really good in bed and he's a really like sloppy sexy kisser so you'd rather that but he's a bit of a slob

like he just is and I'm a bit of a slob too I think I'm a bit of a slob too I would rather a slob than someone that's OCD level organised that's too much when you said organised

I just mean like someone who is like I find that so unattractive but also because I'm like you'll probably never want to come and see my bedroom because it's like shit tip

compared to your really organised backpack yeah that's too much like I think being out in public without stimulation just makes you realise how shit the world is. Or you just spot stuff or you hear stuff or you smell stuff and you're like, this is disgusting. Yeah.

I mean, only in cities, sorry. Only in cities, yeah, yeah. I actually, I rarely leave the house without my headphones. So I'm always listening to music. But on the odd occasion where my phone dies, which is never, and I look up, I'm like, I really miss doing this. I really miss just looking at people and making stories about them and trying to get an insight into their life and who they are

and have they finished work and do they work in IT? Are they a teacher? I think it would be fun if raw dogging was a response to the social isolation we all feel when we're just on our phones. Because then if they weren't just like staring blackly into into space but they were actually trying to make contact to the person next to them i'd be like respect because that's a really interesting fundamentally and i think you've hit the nail on the head like ever since you've started banging on about this i'm like what doesn't sit right with me and it is that i would find it much more of a noble cause for me if you put your laptop and your phone down

and you were like, I'm going to engage in conversation. And it doesn't have to be a full-on conversation. Just look and stare and be observant. And also within that, sit in my thoughts. As opposed to like, right, I'm going to look at this Ryanair poster for nine hours, which you can't do because Ryanair don't do long haul flights, by the way. Yeah, exactly.

And it's like, what are you achieving? But also, you need to like be open to that response. So today on the train, I was really busy working and I had my headphones in and somebody wanted to come in with her kids. And I was like, OK, so I moved over. And she was like, oh, thanks so much, love. That's really kind of you. And then she got out a baton. But no, she got first, she got a lemon sherbet from her bag.

She was like, do you want a lemon sherbet? And I was like, oh lemon sherbets from her bag she was like do you want a lemon sherbet and i was like oh i'm all right thank you you said no to 11 sherbets i know i love lemon sherbets but just because i was like i'm busy i'm working i'm working i'm busy you can take five seconds to take 11 sherbets and that would have made a day and then i know and she was being so friendly and then she got out a battenberg a slice of battenberg in a plastic bag put it on the table and she was like do you fancy a bit this battenberg my friend makes them they're only a it on the table and she was like do you fancy a bit of this Battenberg my friend makes them they're only a pound

it's homemade and I was like take the fucking Battenberg am I going to take a Battenberg from you how am I going to get a Battenberg from you I mean this other lady

was like this woman is being super friendly did you take the Battenberg she wants to engage no I didn't take anything what is wrong I took off my headphones though and I did have

a chat with her because I was like that's fine it's really hard to share a Battenberg it's like the pink squares and the white squares cake. Do you know what a Battenberg is? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's quite impressive to make that at home. I mean, you could have just taken the lemon sherbet to be fair. I know, it would have been easier. But what had happened is all the lemon sherbets had emptied out into her pocket and then she was like, do you want a lemon sherbet? And out of the pocket, yeah, fair, fair. I was like, pass the hands down. I was like, Jesus.

Where's the crisp eye? Give me the crisp of the pocket, yeah, fair, fair. You missed out. You passed the hand sanitizer. Jesus. Where's the crisp, Mike? Give me the crisp, guys. You should have said that. That's a really big bit of detail you missed out. But what I'm saying is like, she took the time to be like, I'm not going to look at my phone. I'm chatting here with my kids. I just want to like engage.

And I was like, laptop, work, must be wanking over work, must get everything done. I remember, and I will never in my life forget this. I had broken up with my ex-partner and it was that weekend or the day after I moved out. It was, I honestly will never forget that weekend. And I was on the train, on the tube going to Upton Park to get this ring fixed or get it. I don't know, I was doing something. And I was on the tube and I started crying and I

just couldn't stop and the carriage was full of people and this like proper geez with his kid uh turned around and said why why are you okay and I said I just broke up with my partner of 10 years and he just did something so beautiful like he just made a joke I can't remember the joke was he made some joke about him and his wife needing a divorce or something and it it made me laugh and it just cut like it just yeah I just forgot my pain and he wasn't listening to music and he was looking and I just was obviously crying and couldn't stop and but it was like really like a Bollywood actress crying like oh yeah I'm sure I wasn't like sobbing

snotting no no no and it was just so and if he'd been on a phone or if anyone I mean everyone else actually was on the phone to be honest

I had had a shit morning and Battenberg lately really made my day because I was like she just brought so much joy onto this commuter train but the strangers do that do you not find

when you go to a shop or something something you remember in your day like a really nice shopkeeper or a customer service or like someone saying something so lovely to

you and you're like that's something. Where I got my sandwich today she was just like I hope you have a really nice day and I was like that's so nice.

And it's like those stranger interactions mean everything and they mean everything and they make your day but we're all like fucking this. So like maybe that's

I know we did an episode around loneliness didn't we or something is it loneliness yeah yeah but this idea that you know social isolation I don't feel isolated because I have a really good group of friends and network and ultimately I'm I'm such an extrovert like I need to get my energy from actual human beings but that isn't to say that I spend so much time on my fucking phone right and so maybe this these guys what they're doing is a reaction to the social isolation but then they're putting up on tiktok anyway so how the fuck but then like reconnect with the person sitting next to you don't sit in your own thoughts for eight hours sit in your

thoughts for like an hour i mean it would have been i would have loved to have got a guy who's actually raw dogs come on the podcast and be like this is what it feels like this is what it feels like yeah because i i you're right like yeah i mean I say that now see if you'd couched it in a challenge I'd be like alright then I'll fucking show you and I probably would've done it but it's funny because

at the top of the episode both of us said that when we sit in our thoughts it takes us to bad places so it like doesn't make us sleep or it gives us anxiety and actually what they are doing

is this kind of incredible thing of like I can sit in my thoughts for eight hours and be okay so a bit of me is like that's quite cool are they okay? they're okay are they gonna step off the plane they're not related on tiktok they're

like got me I think it's fine they're fine I didn't I didn't feel worried for these guys I just I'm so intrigued that this is the way they like to show discipline or strength but this is it isn't it like the idea of hyper masculinity is immediately challenged in the words discipline and strength and challenge. And I can do this and give me nine hours and I can show you. Like for us, it's way more fluid. I mean, obviously my thoughts come to me at night, but I do have thoughts like throughout the day, as do you. And I sit in them and I stew in them and I think about them and then I don't think about them. Whereas for them, it's like I've got this specific finite period of time and this is the time.

And this end goal. It is kind of like, you know, people who run like ultra marathons. Yeah. And I'm like, that's really crazy that you do that to your body. But you do that for your self-discipline. You do that for your own, like, proving your worth to yourself. Yeah, yeah. I just don't think I'm that critical of myself to be like, you need to show me that you're good enough for me.

Also, there are so many other things I need to work on before fucking raw dogging. Ultra marathon. Yeah, and ultra marathon. Like, there's so many other things I need to be, like I need to get discipline.

I need to control my anger. I need discipline with my procrastination. There's so many other things that are top of the priority list that Poppy needs to fix before I can sit on a fucking long haul flight

in my, sitting in my thoughts just staring out ahead of me, like staring into space. If your partner did this, would you find it attractive? I think he does it in a way that's not like this. But he does a version of it. Yeah, he does a version of this, for sure.

Yeah, like an acceptable version that's not like, I'm going to call the air stewardess because this guy in C-15 is a crazy. I don't hate the raw doggers. I'm going to put that out there. I don't hate them. Hey, hey, hey. I'm not saying that I hate them. Hey, hey, hey. Hey, I don't hate them. Hey, hey, hey. I'm not saying that I hate them. Hey, hey, hey.

Hey, I don't hate you, raw dogger. I'm just saying. Dog away. We are with you. I question the intention, but look, we are living. As a practice, it's quite interesting. Yeah, I mean, and look, and it will evolve into something else, potentially another trend, something to stay.

What's the opposite of raw dogging? What we do right now. Something catting? What's the opposite of raw? Fresh. Cooked catting. Yuck. Absolutely yuck.

That's what I'm doing. If you're raw dogging and you want someone to cook cat with, I am. Call you. To be the yin to your yan. No, I mean, no judgment. If you're just going to put it up on TikTok, it's not really...

That's where I'm like, you fall short. But any man or woman who can sit in sort of solitary confinement in their own space... You're essentially a monk. You're essentially a monk. And I have mad respect for you. But just be a monk.

Don't call it raw dogging. Exactly. Sometimes you just hate the internet and you're a little bit old school. And so I a monk and I have mad respect for you. But just be a monk. Don't call it raw dogging. Exactly. Sometimes you just hate the internet and you're a little bit old school. And so I thought this episode was really good to challenge that. It was a bit like doing internet with my dad. Why are they doing this though?

My friends say that about me all the time. You're like, you're literally a baby boomer stuck in this body. No, but I like that because you are quite internet as in you're internet savvy and you're like on Instagram and stuff,

but you're so, you're so neg about so much of it. I'm like, I've got to fucking post this video I fucking hate it yeah yeah yeah I'm gonna still do it every day exactly

it's like you're in this like tortured relationship with Instagram you're like I have to do 10 stories and I have to post my you don't have to do any of this shit you're like I have to do it I hate it

do you remember that series on BBC 2 Grumpy Old White Men oh yeah I fucking love that series and I'm like they should really have me as a contributor

on that series because I really do fit the bill but obviously I don't in many ways okay can I can I say something about um so do you think that you and I should set each other a little challenge and try and be funny if when you started a sentence can I say something afterwards I just said no there are so many times you say can I say something I'm like we are literally in a podcast. I do. No one's going to stop me, but I'll just do it. And actually, if anyone did say no, I'd still say no.

It's a tick I have. All of those phrases that some people have where you're like, why do you say that? Where does that come from? I don't think I have many of them. My mum has one which is just like. No, you do. You're like, this one time. That's what you, whenever you tell a story.

No, really? A hundred percent, you're like, this one time. My mum you whenever you tell a story no really 100% you're like this one time my mum does this thing when I ask a question she goes who me

and I'm like yes mum it's just me and you're in the room and she's like who me and it's like this funny thing

it's just like me it's me yeah you what the fuck and she does this thing where she's like

as I was saying and I was like you haven't said it yet it's a little I guess it's like a tick yours is always like can I was saying, and I was like, you haven't said it yet. It's a little, I guess it's like a tick. Yours is always like, can I just say something? And it's ridiculous

because I talk all the time. You're asking permission and I interrupt. And then I do this like fake polite thing. Why don't you start again? Can you say something? Yeah, sure, Poppy.

Go ahead, say something. Fuck you. I can't remember. Oh, sorry. Oh, no, wait, wait, wait. We should say each other a challenge to raw dog to raw dog

not on a flight you and I would you're right I couldn't do it I mean if you challenged me and you said you could win if you said

there was a thousand pounds at the end of the flight that you could have I'd probably be able to raw dog well I still think that somebody should send us on a silent retreat

that's the kind of thing that you and I I'm going on a silent retreat I mean I'm not going on a silent retreat. That's the kind of thing that you and I... I'm going on a silent retreat. I mean, I'm not going on a silent retreat. It's not in the diary, but I'm 100% going to do it. Oh yeah, I want to do it with you. Together? We're not going to last a second. No, but I mean, that is fucking raw dogging.

Brown girls do it too. Okay, it's time now for... Are you paying attention, Poppy? I love that you know that I wasn't. Yep. Okay, there's a video of us Time now for... Are you paying attention, Poppy? I love that you know that I wasn't. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

There's a video of us doing that. Let's just carry on. Okay. It's time now for the... Shaggy Aunties! Please remember to ask the bill payer's permission before calling us. Shaggy Aunties are not medical professionals

and bear no responsibility for the consequences of your own actions. Hi, Poppy and Rubina. Firstly, let me just say how much I love the Shaggy Nuggets. That's maybe eight O's, maybe even ten. I would like to count that. Hang on, we don't have time for this, do we? No, not really. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. Thank you. Sorry.

I'll do it again. I love the Shaggy Nuggets. Sorry. We also love you. Secondly, I want your advice regarding my boyfriend or rather his family. I'm a white woman in my 30s who's been dating a brown man for just over two years now and we're planning to move in together and eventually get married. Dump him. I'm joking. Give her a chance. The sex is amazing. The banter is wonderful and we have the same ambitions and goals in life.

I am very much in love with him. The problem is his family are very, very, very brown. Like I said, dump him. Like I said, dump him. I called it. Did I not call it? Three verys on a brown. Does that mean he's very, very dark or just super brown? No, they're the brown politics. Okay, let's see. I love my job and it's in no way compatible with motherhood. So I decided, hmm, interesting. That's a really interesting thing thing to say so i decided a long time ago that i won't have children okay i was honest with my boyfriend about this when i first met him and he said that he didn't want children either that's what they all say yeah the problem is is that he hasn't told his parents

about this they expect us to have children and keep talking about how i must stop working and sacrifice my career once that happens oh they are they are very, very proud. Dump him! She's right. They're three times brown. She's, yeah. My boyfriend says that it would break their hearts if I told them about our plans, since he's the only one who will be able to provide them with grandchildren. His solution is to lie and say that we'll start trying for a baby once we're married,

but that I'll continue working until that happens, and then just keep pretending forever and act devastated that I never became pregnant. What do you think? Should I demand that my boyfriend is honest and tells his parents the truth? Or is it better to lie to make them accept me and support our relationship? Best, your loyal fan. Do you remember when we did Soho Theatre, that white girl came up to us? It wasn't the same problem, but she was going out with a brown guy.

And she's like, this is what happens. His family are so brown, and I am not treated with respect and I'm not equal and he now the woman he fell in love with is now not who he wants me to be because he wants me to be that brown wife okay there's so much let's backtrack because I don't think that the boyfriend is asking this of her he's being like hey let's do a sneaky on them together. And let's just claim we're infertile. Boom. Problem solved. Is that what he's saying? Well, he's saying, you know, let's just keep pretending forever that we're trying. And then?

And act devastated that I never become pregnant. I know what brown parents are like. And they are not going to leave you alone, baby girl. They are going to be constantly like, when is the grandchild coming? You know, they're going to do all of that chat. So like, the sooner you are honest with your, well, it sounds like you're honest with yourself and you know what you want. The sooner you're honest with him, he can tell his parents and say, look, this is the deal. And I think what I've done, the biggest mistake I've made

is I enabled, because I lived this lie, I enabled this false sense of reality with my parents when actually I should have just told them the truth. And by this point now to my next partner, they would have they would have had a real dose of reality. Do you know what I mean? I'm now having I'll now have to start again, chipped away and then now to start again at 45 or whenever I'm ready. So anyway, that's my take. I don't know. I think, you know, you've got two paths ahead of you, dear listener, dear loyal fan. Because look, there are a bunch of lies we, not lies, there are things that we keep from our parents to protect them. And like all brown people know that they do this, right? We're not telling them everything. We protect them from stuff. That is why we lead these double lives

that you're saying. And you're now part of the family, babe. So if you want to continue in the way that the son is doing, so your boyfriend is doing, you can do that. You can probably do this thing that you're exactly suggesting. Just say that you're going to have kids and then don't have them and time will pass and no one will care. But it sounds like this decision of yours to not have children is a decision that you're making and it's quite connected to who you are and actually I think if you tell them they'll be devastated yes but devastation will only last a short while and they'll get over it because they'll understand and maybe if you don't want to keep on being hassled or pressured if you turned around to them and said actually we have decided we're not going to have kids and we're really sorry that that might affect you or hurt you but it's our decision

and at the end of the day they will understand that they will and I know you can't see it now and I know the sun certainly can't see it now but you rip that band-aid off it's going to hurt

under no false allude don't think it's not they're going to be devastated it could be months it could be I don't think I could have told my mum that I didn't want to have kids by the way

so I completely see this if I turned around didn't want to have kids, by the way. So I completely, completely see this. Like if I turned around to her, she would have found it really, really difficult. But she's my mum. And like time is a healer. She would come back. She would come back to you guys. Time is a healer. But I also feel like having done the double life, literally lived a double life with a partner and hid him.

And I think you then start on really shaky ground. If your relationship is built on a lie, not to each other, obviously they're honest with each other, but built on a lie outwards, i.e. to the family, then it's so easy. Like it's so easy to continue to be a pathological liar because once you've built that lie, then the other lies just keep coming thick and fast.

And then you have a whole, and don't forget, there's probably aunties and uncles and a whole community. They're going to be telling those people, like, it's exhausting and it's draining. Also just blame it on your boyfriend. Be like, his sperm is dead. There's also that. It's not me, it's your child.

But I want to get back to something that she said earlier, which is, I don't think my, I love my job and it's no way compatible with motherhood. It's like, you love your job. Like that is so important. That's a part of who you are. That's your identity. It's, it's what makes you happy. I guess the problem that you might have, listener, is that by saying to his parents, actually, we don't want to have children. You are bringing

something to their table that they haven't heard from their own son. And that would be a massive betrayal. Like you'd have to come to some sort of, you know, solution with your partner. Hey, we're going to do this. We're going to do this together. So whatever decision you make, please make sure you consult him. Because what you don't want is to damage his relationship with his parents. That's like the worst thing to do. Yeah, and that's another whole thing to unpack as well.

It's like his relationship with his family and the fact that he himself feels like he can't tell them the truth so they do there is no I in team right absolutely you both need would need to a talk to each other I mean he doesn't want kids either right so they need to put on a united front but I almost feel like this is more about his relationship with his family and I'm cracking that like unpacking that and being honest and truthful but like so many of us I mean how many of us have just done what our parents did and then behind closed doors

did something completely different I think there's like the balance between a few white lies and the ones the lies that you can live with and the ones that you can't and that's your choice

but this is you decide this is a big old lie though which ones are the worst the black ones or the white ones lies black lies

white lies are the small lies I don't think black lies is a thing white lies hang on no black lies is a thing

I've been saying that my whole life you've been saying black lies I found out the other day it was I found out the other day it was on goal no own goal

not on goal and I was like oh my god it's an on goal and everyone was like no it's an own goal I swear it's white lies

oh my god thank you so much for listening to this episode of Brown Girls Do It Too all about raw dogging and

and helping out this dear listener with her real real conundrum if you've raw dogged and it's worked for you please we'd love to hear from you yeah we'd love to hear from you

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