Brown Girls Do It Too - Sex or Racism: What's More Awkward to Talk About?

Episode Date: August 23, 2024

No awkward topic is ever off-limits on Brown Girls Do It Too so in this episode Poppy and Rubina get into a conversation about racism. They discuss what being British means to them, dealing with heightened racial tensions and how much has changed since their parents came to this country in the 1970's. Have a message for Poppy and Rubina? If you’re over 16, you can message the BGDIT team via WhatsApp for free on 07968100822. Or email us at [e-mail]. Anger and all other emotions are welcomed!If you're in the UK, for more BBC podcasts listen on BBC Sounds: bbc.in/3UjecF5

This podcast contains strong language and themes of an adult nature Which for some of us brown girls is just a regular old Tuesday This is a podcast about sex At least it started off like that Now we talk about everything Everything is sex And sex is everything And that includes our mistakes, our heartbreaks

And our hot, mistakes, our heartbreaks. And our hot, hot, hot takes. I'm Rubina. And the most British thing I do is neck pale ale, sit in the pub and talk politics very loudly. I'm Poppy. And the most British thing I do is go abroad and just speak English. So bad. I really, that really kind of annoys me. Yeah. I'm a phrasebook girl. I get the phrasebook on the plane, I get it up on my phone.

I'm classic British Lao. I'm like, they'll speak English. I took a flight with an English friend once to Spain and on the flight was like reading her stuff in the phrasebook. We land, go and buy something and I'm like, hola, que tal, eleva. And I'm getting all my bits and pieces and then she jumps up and she's like how can I get that croissant please yeah that's me

and I'm like hello we just did the whole phrasebook together yeah I'm so lazy disrespectful basically is it because you don't want to try

yeah it's a combination of all those things I don't want to try I'm lazy English is the what is it the main global language yeah

I feel very British I think I'm even when I hear my voice what is it, the main global language. I feel very British. I think I'm, even I hear my voice on this podcast sometimes, like, who is that very English girl? She has jumped out of Jane Austen. Yeah. You know, I feel like I am very British and English. And then I play up my Britishness when I go abroad. Oh, yeah.

Anywhere abroad. Also, I'm sorry, our accent is fucking hot. Yeah, yeah. Hot as fuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It won't get you far in America because they don't understand lots of, they don't understand hot. They don't understand water.

Water, yeah. You have to say chili sauce instead of, you know, you have to say hot sauce. Hot sauce instead of chili sauce. Yeah. But it does really get us far. Can you imagine if we were white with these accents, how far we would get? To be honest, I think the combination of being brown and British is quite useful sometimes because people just immediately presume you're smart. with me do you not think no I think

they presume you're smart and then you let them know you're not no not really I but I think um like when I go back to Bangladesh looking brown because obviously you can't get rid of your skin color um with this accent I feeled there I mean this is a very this is a very well documented thing with a lot of us I mean I'm first generation immigrant

was born here but like you feel othered in your own country and then you feel othered when you go back home I remember something the first time I went

to Bangladesh I was 10 it was 1995 and my uncle my mum's brother said to me when the queen chucks you out

where are you going to go you're not going to come here and we're not going to let you in. Whoa. You're British. Border control right there. And I was just like, why would the Queen chuck me out? I'm British.

I belong there. And it was probably the first taste I got, actually. And I did belong there at 10 because I don't know if you remember, but I grew up in Tower Hamlets. Tower Hamlets was full of bingolies. I never experienced racism as overtly as my dad's generation did. We ran E1, bruv. So it was like Little Bangla.

So I never felt that sense of othering. My class was 30 kids, 28 Bengali, two Somali kids. So it was like the reverse. So you never felt othered here in the UK? Never felt othered from about zero till about 18. Never felt othered. And then at what point did that change? Uni, when I went to uni.

When I went to uni, I saw class. I didn't just see brown people and black people. Saw posh people, saw white people. I mean, it was great for me. And I loved, I loved seeing people from other faiths and cultures and classes. But that's when I felt othered because that's when I was like, ooh.

And this slight sense of not feeling like I belonged, really. But 10 is probably the first. And you hear British Asians talk about it all the time, not feeling like they belong here, not feeling like they belong in the motherland. It was the first time.

What about you? When was the first time you felt othered? I don't know. I mean, I've always grown up in a multicultural school, society. Because we're both born and raised Londoners, right? Yeah, but I guess my school was much more diverse than yours. There was a kid from Madagascar.

There was a kid from Azerbaijan. You know, like, to me, they were British. That's what being British was. British was being this, like, global international player, you know, like, speaking lots of different languages, eating lots of different people's food. It was like this really cool, worldly thing, being British. When I watched This Is England, it was the first time I was like,

I was very proud and happy to be British until I saw that and was like, oh, hang on, being British means something different to other people.

So like, listen, you know, for those of you who've been listening to us for a while, you know this podcast is called Brown Girls Do It Too.

Which you hated. Yeah, I would hate it at the time. Do you still hate it, by the way? No, I think it can sound a bit regressive. Yeah, I think it sounds

a bit childish. Surely it's more pertinent now in the day and age that we're living in and what's happening around us that we are called brown girls do it too. Yeah, I think it's really important. But I had to come to that from like a... Because you don't want to be told you're a brown girl. You want to be able to own that. And that's not what happened with our podcast or the start of it.

So that was probably my actual tension with it. You've gone on a real journey with that. But I think it's like really empowering to say you're a brown girl. And I wish more British Asian girls referred to themselves as brown girls. Because I think British Asian is like, well, that's a mouthful. Brown girl rolls with the tongue a bit better. But I also feel like it makes me feel like

I'm part of a collective of women thinking a certain way, doing a certain thing. Well, I've never had an issue with our podcast being called Brown Girls Do It Too because everyone clearly assumed that brown girls weren't doing it. And of course we want to live in a world where we just want to be a girl doing it,

but you have to be a brown girl doing it. Who's going to listen to the podcast, Girls Doing It Too? Me too. But I think ultimately we've had so many brown women DM us, come to us after our live shows to say, your experiences are my experiences. Your story about X, Y, Z and you going on a date and this happening is also something that happened

to me. So I love doing this podcast because I love you and you make me laugh so much. But I love the community we've built because for so long as a British Asian, I have felt disconnected to other British Asians. And it is this podcast that's helped me connect with other brown women. And we've, we'd have, you and I have had a very frank discussion in the pub, very loudly, drunk, talking to each other about like how I didn't have that many brown female friends, close friends growing up because there was only space for one, me. And now any brown woman I see, I'm like, she's my sister. How do I raise her? She's amazing you know like so I think I've really gone through a bit of a shift myself yeah I mean and the truth is the brown part of you is the bit that you cannot erase or hide or ignore remember you're

in your thing your hand oh yeah I used to say that like you forget if you if you grow up in this country and you go anywhere that's full of white people and you sound like that you sound like this you just think you're white and it's and you go anywhere that's full of white people. And you sound like that. And you sound like this. You just think you're white. And it's either pointed out to you by somebody or you kind of catch your hand. Yeah. Because your hands are weirdly always darker than other bits of your body. And you're like, oh, yeah, I'm brown.

I'm really brown. Are your hands darker than your fanny? No, my vagina is the darkest part. I don't really know. Yeah, I think it is. Mine's more like not brown. It's like dark, dark brown. It's like purple. Mine too. It's probably because it's swelling. I'm quite body. Yeah, I think it is. Mine's more like not brown. It's like dark, dark brown. It's like purple.

Mine too. It's probably because it's swelling. I'm quite pregnant. It could have been that though. I'm not sure. If I had said to you about a month ago, what is the racist thing that's happened to you in your 37 years of living and breathing

in this fine country? What would you have said? I mean, I haven't had like actual racist abuse held at me although someone did you know roll down the window once and use the p word but to me that's like I feel like every single brown person I know has experienced that once for me it's all the stuff that's like insidious in workplace culture where you're like I'm sorry did you just do that yeah like randomly this guy in an office pulled up a chair next to me when I was freelance and was like so Robina you're good at maths and I'm really bad at maths. And I was like, I have no idea why you're talking to me about this. And it was really awkward. But you know, now, because I'm

36, you get to a point where somebody says something to you and you're like, did you say that? And then you get to have a conversation. But when you're young in an office, you're just like, yeah, I think I can be good at maths. I bet if did that now you'd be like well let me tell you let me tell you why that was wrong or the guy who came around the office with like sweets and he gave everyone he offered everyone on the table a sweet and then it came to me and he was like I don't think you can have these because they have gelatin in it give me a fucking haribo I know it's four o'clock on a Tuesday everyone else you're giving one to fucking Wendy. Rapina for Bonnie. It's like I'm asking for your hand in marriage.

What do you think is more awkward to talk about? Sex or racism? Totally depends on the crowd. But you're bringing up neither in the pub, are you? Come on, you're not going to talk about sex and you're not going to bring up racism because it all feels like a little bit... Well well sex feels like you're just like smutty and trying to like be weird but also racism also feels like you're just trying to start a fight like the word racism makes everyone feel like well i'm not a racist immediately defensive

immediately like trying to protect i would absolutely talk about sex in the pub but i wouldn't talk about racism in the pub unless it happened around me organically organic like unless there was a unless there was like a little bit of a racism somewhere and then you let's use I'm a bit of a you know remember your story about people giving up their seat for you in the tube I like to think of myself as a bit of a hero yeah so if I saw an incident yes I will absolutely call it out and say something. But a microaggression, I can't prove it either way, right? What did you mean by that? What do you mean by that?

And I wasn't that. It's not as explicit. There's a lot of strange parallels between sex and racism, right? Yeah. Because sex is like your body has these urges that it can't fight, that you're like instinctively doing it. The other thing is like when racism is like your body is inside a skin color that you can't fight that you're like instinctively doing it the other thing is like when racism is like your body is inside a skin colour

that you can't fight are you talking you know when you're talking about racism are you talking about it from the POV of like the person experiencing the racism

or the person doing the racism interesting I mean yes exactly because I think the person doing the racism is like

they'll have no problems talking about sex in the pub because they're fucking doing the thing that you're not I mean you can't just fuck someone in the pub because they're fucking doing the thing that you're not. I mean, you can't just fuck someone in the pub. Do you think racists are good in bed?

Is that where this is going? I can't answer that question and I don't know. But my point is, I think sex in this day and age is quite easy to talk about. Well, I mean, if you're a racist, you're quite decisive. That's what I was thinking. This is black, this is white. So you probably are quite good in bed because you're like, here, I'm going's what I was thinking you're quite like this is black this is white so you probably are quite getting in bed

because you're like here I'm going to do this thing and I've made the decision I'm going to do you up the bum no I think I think racists

are lazy oh really yeah think about it their whole ideology is lazy and based on no facts and no truth and steeped in

absolute bullshit yeah racists wouldn't go down on you they wouldn't go down on you and all that pre-cum game, they would not be invested in. But they might give you one hell of a spanking.

I don't know if I was into that. That's so weird. I don't know if I was into that. Because I grew up predominantly in a Bengali area, I never experienced racism because we were all the roost, right? But there was one time I was

visiting an auntie in Romford and obviously she was the only Asian family there everyone else was white and this boy called me the p-word and then we both giggled I was so weird because he was trying to be racist but I think he was trying to flirt with me as well I mean that was probably but but the most important thing is I didn't feel this tension you know that like flight or flight that thing you feel in your body like fuck I'm gonna get attacked

or fuck I'm about to fuck or whatever like it was silly and it was funny I didn't feel threatened at all I think we have become quite desensitized

to the P word oh totally and that's because all of us have experienced it once or twice it's a wardrobe for ducks back yeah it doesn't feel like It should be

But it's huge It's like a massive Racist slur That when it's said to you Cuts really deep It's so racially charged But I've got to a point In my life now

Where you develop So many thick layers Just to get by Okay forget the race stuff Right As two working brown women Like just to get by. I guess when I've been told it, when that 14 year old called me the P word, I kind of laughed it off and didn't think it was that big a deal.

But I think now if someone said the P word to me now, I'd have to take a beat. I'd have to take a moment and be like, wow, I haven't I haven't been called the P word since that time. So I don't I don't know what it would feel like now. But I mean, seeing it on the news feed, it's making me have a very different relationship to it. Because I think most brown and black people, we have to put up with a bit of racism to kind of, we do, right? I remember saying to you the other day, well, you said to me, the microaggressions and the shit you have to put up with at work. And I really thought about it when i went home i was like fuck is this is rabina who is so outspoken so forthright will call shit out and she's just putting up with this shit on a daily basis like what well it's because we accept

that there's structural racism within society we just do we accept that so we're like yeah there's something quite inequality you're not going to eradicate it by one by just you are you exactly and also you have to accept it because otherwise you're denying this thing that's reality yeah and a lot of people's reality you know and i think you know there are certain politicians who have come out and said like britain is not a racist country it's the least racist country you know in the world and actually that kind of stuff's really messy because we need to address where inequality is and And some inequality in this country is down to race. My dad never wants to say sorry. He never wants to admit he's done anything wrong.

I really like that segue. I like that segue to your dad. He's like Britain, you know? Your dad. He's never just like, I've made a mistake, guys. I did some racisms. Colonialism might have been a bad thing. I did some mistakes.

Just like a little bit of that kind of understanding that you know no society's perfect and we have issues but like the second we can address them the second we'll be able to resolve them to get over it

exactly Sweden they make mistakes not all of the IKEA furniture is legit sometimes Norway they make mistakes why are we so bad

at saying sorry I was so bad at saying sorry a bit like you know when you have a fight with your sibling and you're like

you're in the wrong but you stand your ground It's pride It's an ego thing This is exactly What they're doing I never thought I'd have this thought

On the tube But I saw these two white guys And again Absolutely racially profiling them Incorrectly I'm sure I was like Are they racist Are they going to attack me

What would I do I'd have to use my bag I'm in ridiculous shoes I can't run Like only time I think like that When I do like A little risk use my bag I'm in ridiculous shoes I can't run like only time I think like that when I do a little risk assessment

is when I'm out at night which every woman does when she's going home I mean I find that I find it quite surprising that you felt that way in London

because like London's always been a bit of a safe haven in my head one because I'm from here but two because it is like the most multicultural spot

in potentially in the world of like diverse cultures foods languages everything but obviously if you go to a pub in the countryside, somewhere unknown, somewhere you don't know anyone, you know, you always think, well, I don't I don't know. Do people here welcome me? Like, do I feel safe? Do I feel like this is my home?

I'm not getting complacent. I think even if it was London, I've never been so worried and scared in my life. And it might be because I've just been going down a news hole and that might be it. There's like a vigilance and like a high alert that's happening in my body and in my brain right now where I never had to think like that unless I was going home alone at night. My partner came in the other day and I was on my phone just scrolling. He was like, what are you doing? And I was like, reading my phone, getting scared. the other day and I was on my phone just scrolling and he was like what you doing and I was like reading my phone getting scared yeah and he was like stop reading your phone and actually he had this really great conversation with me because my partner's white and I was like you won't understand your community is not being threatened

here you the child that we have made together his life is going to be threatened here not yours you will be fine and we had this really great chat about like fear and part of the response of us can also not be rooted in fear we should not be scared to go on the street we should not be scared to occupy spaces that we do because giving them the fear means that they've won yeah of course of course but it's like when you think about different types of tension you think about the immediate tension and the short term tension. It's so sad in 2024, we're still having these fucking conversations about what it means to be British and who owns being British. And the cult and it's the same on the Asian side. Like, well, who are the gatekeepers of being Asian or British?

What does it mean to be British or Asian? And surely those things are evolving and changing all the time. We've met Asians whilst making this podcast, British Asians who don't like to talk about British Asian culture. There is no one homogenous way to be an Asian person. In the same way, there's no one homogenous way to be British. You know, the man who has a skinhead and flies the Union Jack outside his window or the St. George's Cross is no more British than me. Yeah, totally. And when he starts seeing me as his fellow Brit, then we'll be in a good place because I already see him like that. Where do you think racism like comes from? Do you think you can be taught to be racist? Absolutely. That is like, you know, they have that whole thing of like kids not being born. No one's born a racist.

Literally, I had the same thought three days ago when the sun was shining and I was in my local ends and I saw this little black baby play with this white blonde kid and they were loving each other and they were hugging each other and he was so cute the little baby I mean as he's toddler he's like trying to kick the ball and he couldn't kick it and I was like they cannot see race his His hair's different. His hair type's different. Their eyes are different. Their skin's different. They cannot see race.

And then I had this really sad thought. I was like, life and school and friends and society is going to fuck all that shit up. I think racism is a total man-made, human-made construct. I absolutely do. Because I saw those kids and it was just pure innocence. Like I didn't understand. I mean, yeah, I did go to school with a whole bunch of Bengali people,

brown people, but I really understood race. And I understood that I was at the bottom of that pile when I was like 18, 19, when my world opened up. And that's when I was like, okay, I'm not going to get those opportunities. And actually at 18, when I was so my world was really um really closeted really protected because don't forget I was like I was in a bubble within a bubble within a bubble right and it's only when I went to uni and then stayed out at uni that's when I was like okay there's a hierarchy here this is real life this is how it works you're here

there are going to be people above you and and actually the way to overcome that is you know Asian people try to be clever try and get good grades and that's a way out I mean I knew that very early on yeah very early on that was kind of instilled in me with by my parents but that's probably the first time I became aware of the color of my skin I think my parents made me aware of the color of my skin as well like getting on a bus and them using the like our indigenous language for white person look at that white person I think Doria

Doria Doria yeah like look at that I'm so shit with my language it's terrible it's alright but um yeah then my mum would be like

oh look at that white person and I'd be like white person? why are we calling them white person? because there were so few white people in in Tower Hamlets

whenever we would see someone we'd be like look at that Shada person Shada just means white because you you wouldn't you wouldn't see them normally so yeah look um i think your experience is really interesting because i think your experience is what a lot of white english people fear that you can be born in this country grow up in this country live in in a space that's like completely of one ethnicity. Like you call it Banglatown for a lot of people, for a lot of people that scares the shit out of them. Yeah. But they inadvertently created Banglatown. My dad came to this country in the 70s. Think

about this as a massive fucking social experiment of the last 40 years. They came to this country, felt so unwelcome by the white community, closed themselves off, became a bit too closed off. And that was fucking oil and water and you've got these two disparate communities who don't know who the fuck they are they don't get along they look at

my mum and dad and my community look at these white people and think you're a fucking bunch of aliens and they look at them thinking you're a bunch of aliens and no one's fucking

talking to each other yeah yeah yeah my parents' immigration experience was very different because they came as immigrants in the 70s and my mum still tells the story of arriving

in refugee camps and there being rows and rows of local white British people with blankets and clothes ready to welcome them wow in where you can't no no in in north of England in like Coventry and like where all the refugee camps were when they arrived like the way we look at outsiders now yeah it's so different you know yeah so that my mom's was like yeah british people have always been really friendly to us i don't think they've experienced like shit loads of racism at all that's amazing but she's a muslim in a muslim community and she still trusts her own and that's that's the thing that our generation need to break out of you know we have we have we have we 100, we have. But there is still

a little bit of underlying fear and tension around us worrying that Britain is not opening, still is not welcomed us. Yes. And we're from here.

And we're from here and that's why we do it because we have each other. You know, it's like when you see another Asian, you're like, you know what I mean? Yeah.

Sometimes when you see like a black or brown man or woman doing something really British. Yeah. But you know, you're yeah sometimes when you see like a like a black or brown man or woman doing something really British yeah but you know you're like is it possible for a brown or black person to feel patriotic to be patriotic and be proud of being English yeah of course absolutely they should do and and I think but then how are you are you proud of being English am I proud of being British yes I don't see myself as English. I see myself as British. Why? Because English to me is white. English is synonymous with Caucasian and white. I think also,

I think British Asians have a real problem with calling themselves English Asians. Yeah. In a way that Scottish Asians, no problem. I'm a Scottish Asian, Welsh Asian. I'm a Welsh Asian, Irish Asian. I'm an Irish. English Asians, we don't like to say we're English. Yeah, and you know why I don't like to say I'm English Asian? Because for so long I was reminded by white people and Asian people back home that you are not English. You are not English and you're never going to be English. So connection of being English is like English people in England who are white. But I'm British.

But I say I'm British because I feel like I can live in Scotland, I can live in Wales, I can live in Ireland. Yeah. I'm fucking, I feel like I can live in Scotland I can live in Wales I can live in Ireland I'm fucking you know what I mean British feels more inclusive doesn't it British feels way more inclusive

I made the mistake of saying English once and some uncle some family member in Bangladesh like they all like absolutely rinsed me and then I think

since that memory I'm like no no no I'm British but it's that whole thing when someone says do you like speak English do you speak English and you're like I have to speak English but I'm like, no, no, no, I'm British. But it's that whole thing when someone says to you, like, speak English, do you speak English? You're like, I have to speak English, but I can't call myself English.

It's weird, isn't it? But then you could be Swedish and speak English, but you can't call yourself English. To be fair, everyone speaks English. And English is the global language. And that's why I speak English when I go abroad. I'm a lazy Brit. I'm a lazy Brit. Full circle on that.

That was good. I liked it. So right now, do you feel safe going on dates with strangers from the internet? Yeah. Interestingly enough, I do. Because if they're matching with me, then they actively want this. Or? Fuck, I didn't think.

I haven't actually even thought about it. I'm sorry. No, I've actually made you feel scared. I'm actually made you feel scared. Sorry. No, but it's a genuinely legitimate question. I actually weirdly think on dating apps, it is a safe space. I do think very early on, if someone was being a dick to you or if someone was quite predatory,

you'd be able to pick that up quite early on anyway. So actually your spidey senses go up much sooner than you think. But I think if someone is swiping to me, this is what they're into. Yeah. That's not, I'm not necessarily scared about dates. But now that you've accepted this idea in my head, I now have to make sure that I, if they are non-Asian, are not Asian. I also just watch out for anyone who likes hunting.

In camouflage. In camouflage. Anyone who owns weapons. You should be scared of those things. Just make sure I just look out for anyone who likes hunting. In camouflage. In camouflage. Anyone who owns weapons. You should be scared of those things. Just make sure I just look out for them. Just maybe know. Even if you match, just be like, oh, you're wearing a camouflage t-shirt. What's going on there?

Yeah. You have a buzz cut. The thing is, I quite liked the whole military buzz cut. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's hot. As a role play, it's hot. But now I'm like, it's too close to home. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's too close to home. I saw a guy the other day with like a beaver hat and like a beaver tail like like he was like he was from the mountains or something and I was like you know when I was 16 I would love that shit but now I think I feel threatened I always feel like that my body does this amazing thing as you must feel in some way because you are literally pregnant. And I was just thinking about my body this morning, like immediately going into like that whole flight and flight and that tension. But then your body does that in sex, right? Like you get really, really wet.

I told you about that guy who made me sweat. Like literally pools of like just... Yeah, physical reactions that you're not in charge of. Like an orgasm. Yeah. I mean, you're kind of in charge of an orgasm because you can't take an orgasm all the way and like make it happen actually a lot of brain and body but sometimes when it comes it comes and you're like well i wasn't going to take it to be then maybe i thought it would come later yeah or you're edging towards it and then it just like takes over yeah oh my god but like your body it doesn't i i don't know

i've always felt in in times of stress I've always felt in times of stress, not always sex, but in times of stress and that sort of fight, flight, having to defend myself, it always comes through. Like this morning on the tube, I was like, right, what the fuck's going on? Sex, when it's fucking insane, I'm like wet. Oh my God, I went on a date with my first Asian guy ever since my ex-husband. I was so dry down there talking about bodies. He just kept flopping out.

He was like, they just kept popping out. Oh wow. And he kept saying, you're dry. And then I was, and I was dry. He wasn't saying it in a, in a,

like he wasn't being critical. Yeah. Stating a fact. I was like, why don't you fucking go down on there or spit or like finger me or do something to make me wet? And it was,

and I was like, how am I this dry? And it's because I've been, you know, it was my birthday last week and I've been on it since fucking Thursday, Thursday,

Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And I was so dry and I was like, my fucking body let me down. But then my body's like, you have battered me

and bruised me. I can't just produce fluids for you all the time no give me a break give me a fucking break yeah your body's telling you something your body's like when your body's telling you something and especially like with our periods and like our hormones and everything but yeah my I could not produce fluids yeah interesting yeah I feel like I mean I feel like most of the time I'm pretty disconnected from my body but being pregnant makes you the most aware of your body and I think with like

recent events being brown and being aware of my skin and being out in public I do have that extra level of thought but I'm also pregnant

so I'm also like high security have to keep my body really safe have to make sure nobody comes near me and then if I feel But aren't you on high alert

in your body? I think I'm more on high alert because I'm pregnant because my whole issue with I will not let them see me scared I will not let them see me scared and I don't think I want them I don't want I don't want any kind of fringe racist group to look at me and see me with my head down I will look them in the eye and be like come on then come on then. Come on then. They might murder me. I understand. But I think then I'd like to go down

with my eyes in their eyes. Yeah, fair. And with my chin up because I'm really fucking proud of being brown and British and Asian. I'm really proud of my culture. I'm going to be where you are next week.

But I think I'm just going through the stages of being fearful, being scared, feeling rejected, feeling like, my God, I've lived in this country my whole life. And I think this is what infuriates me and upsets me. It's like, no matter how many times you say you were born here, no matter how many times you shout and scream it and you feel British, they always make you, and I know it's the fringes and I know it's

a small group of people and it's a minority, but like, you can't help but feel like this happened to my parents' generation and it's happening now in front of my very eyes. It's scary because it feels so targeted to us, to Muslims, to brown faces. This is why it feels so different to the riots prior because it's so targeted towards brown people and muslims also the black community we're not even welcome i thought you used a really good word actually when you said that you felt rejected because i think that's so interesting to feel rejected by a part of your yeah identity and like no i can that's the one word i was i relate to that because actually what you don't want is to be living in a society that you feel

doesn't accept you yeah I feel rejected and you're right no matter what we can do we'll always be brown and part of that like if they're not going to accept

that this is also what British looks like we have to still show them we still have to reach out we still have to have that dialogue and we still have to keep an open arm

to these people because the second the communication shuts down then we're really fucked and I think communication has already shut down that's what worries me so I'm like no fear open arms if you are a racist person

listen to this podcast and you're that'd be wild wouldn't it please message us oh my god email us in because we would love to have you on because what we want is to have a chat with you about where your fear about us comes from yeah

because we can tell you I'm not that scary. I'm no clown. You are a clown. No, no clown. Clowns are scary. And I'm not a clown. Oh, clown. Clowns are actually not scary, but they are scary.

Oh, right. They're scary to some people. I'm not a scary clown. I got that reference. And you're right. We need to keep a dialogue open. But then sometimes I'm like keeping a dialogue open with people that have already shut, have already made their minds up is really difficult. But I think that whole phrase of making your mind up, I'm an eternal optimist.

I think minds will always be able to be changed. And, you know, this whole idea that structural racism exists, this is actually good for us to be reminded that we have a long way to go i we have a long way to go but i'm in a very like talking about flight and fly i'm talking about i'm in a very fighty mood think like you under layers and layers of corpesimism i always say i am the eternal optimist layers and layers as i do the headbob layers and layers of cool pessimism is what he said is so cool it's optimism at my core because it's cooler to be pessimistic and yeah it's cooler to be pessimistic it's cooler to be like you know angry about it yeah yeah but I am an optimist um but I think I'm also like tired and bored because I'm gonna be 40 next year and I'm still having the same conversations I'm having now that I had 10 years ago and 20 you know what I mean so it's like when I'm 50 what kind of

conversations am I going to be having what kind of writing will we see in 15 years time like what will this country look like because even though we are going forward like this podcast and being friends with you and the experiences you and I had So even though we are progressing in so many ways, we are also regressing in some ways and regressing back to that life that my parents experienced in the 70s. And that is the disconnect that sometimes I'm like, how could we go back to that when all of this has happened? And we've achieved all of this. I joke about it, but I shouldn't have to joke about it. You know, I shouldn't. but I shouldn't have to joke about it. You know, I shouldn't. Well, we've got to joke about it.

Otherwise, you know, it will be fine. Anyway, if they did send us back, maybe we could go on the same plane. Is that all you're thinking about? Well, long haul flights. You'd be going to India and I'd be going to Bangladesh. We'd be separated. But we could like raw dog the whole way. We could raw dog for content.

I'm sorry, we could have a TikTok channel, right? Which is just all about going back to where we came from and being like we raw dogged on the fly hashtag raw dogging we got back to these countries that don't accept us when we can't speak the languages

hashtag still an outsider still an outsider oh my god I don't know I think Prangazit 2 would do really well in India I'm just saying I don't think

maybe even Bangladesh Bangladesh would I mean only like big cities interestingly yeah in big cities I think our podcast would do really well in our respective motherlands because things are changing there

and progressing there. Sometimes I think faster than it's progressing here. What makes me proud to be British is that we get to do this podcast. And this podcast is listened to by any brown girl feeling oppressed in any part of the world. And it gives them like that small bit of power. And if they're like, if that's what British is,

I want a slice of it. Then, you know, that's really good. I feel very proud of that. You've made me feel like so much better. Okay, good. You really have. Actually saying that, that is what makes me feel British as well. It's so British.

We're talking our shit. We're doing our shit. We're like smutty. We're cheeky. We're like, we're really British. Oh my God. One of my school friends was like, I cannot listen to it. You guys go too far. So one of of my school friends Was like

I cannot listen to it You guys go too far One of my older school friends I can't I can't listen to it You guys You guys are too much Too much for me

I feel like with series 5 They were like Sort of Yeah now we're talking About racism and shit You know what I mean We're basically like Politicians here

This is basically like Newscast We're not even talking about This is sexcast This is sexcast I remember us're not even talking about this is sex cast this is sex cast I remember us being really graphic before but sex is graphic

like how is he supposed to describe somebody like fingering you one two three oh my god one finger two finger three finger I found out

with no warning I think you need progressive levels of that do you know what word I fucking hate I hate I love it but I hate the word

is finger blasting I hate what's finger blasting finger one finger I hate I love it but I hate the word is finger blasting I hate what's finger blasting finger blasting oh right yeah I thought it was this like a kind of come hither that's a come hither

oh right okay that's clearly a come hither that's clearly a come hither so English god what's wrong with you come on that is like a

slight tickle this is like finger blasting and I hate that word it literally makes me want to it feels quite like martial artsy well that's probably

what they're doing yeah yeah yeah yeah oh anyway I hate jujitsu on your jujitsu on your fanny yeah

on your what sorry I don't know I was trying to find the word for pussy that rhymed it doesn't work jujitsu what did you say there say it

say it we've had enough I think the producer wants to stand a pussy that rhymed. It doesn't work. Did you? So what did you say there? What? Say it. Say it. We've had enough. I think the producer wants to stand. Well, I feel hopeful. Good. You don't look hopeful. You have quite a sad face

when you're saying that. No, I feel hopeful but I'm a realist. You've given me a glimmer of hope, actually. Yeah. So thank you for making me feel good.

We've got to have hope. There's always a brighter day tomorrow. Yeah. To plant a garden is to believe in tomorrow. Did you just make that up? yeah so thank you for making me feel good we've got to have hope there's always a brighter day tomorrow yeah to plant a garden is to believe in tomorrow did you just make that up? no I think maybe Audrey Hepburn said that

oh Audrey Hepburn but let's fact check that because I don't know if that's true anyways I just wanted to be honest that originally was not mine okay thank you so much for listening

to today's episode if you feel impacted by the conversation we just had, there are lots of great resources available at bbc.co.uk forward slash action line. And if you have any problems or conundrums or dilemmas, as ever, please send us a WhatsApp or a voice note to 07968 100 822. Or you can email us browngirlsdoittoo at bbc.co.uk. We'd love to hear from you.

We really do. My stomach is grumbling right now, so we've got to go. Bye.