Brown Girls Do It Too - Sex Parties, Coming Out and Oysters with Amani Saeed

Episode Date: January 15, 2021

Sex Parties, oyster tasting vulvas and confronting nosy uncles are all included in this discussion about sexual preferences.Poppy and Rubina talk about feeling pressured into some of their sexual choices and identity and even being judgmental themselves about others. They are also joined by writer and spoken word artist, Amani Saeed, who reveals how she learned about her queer identity, and also the role her religion plays in complementing her lifestyle.

BBC Sounds music radio podcasts Brown Girls do it too from the BBC Asian Network

I'm Robina the hairy indie one with a nose like a samosa I'm Poppy the hairless bingoolie one

with boobs like laddus I don't think they're like laddus actually I think they're more like rationalised

but whatever little mangoes and you're listening to Brown Girls do it too on BBC Asian Network and BBC Sounds. This podcast is about sex. So expect some adult conversations. And we use words that real people use when they talk about sex. We also use swear words. So if

that's going to offend you, then please do download something else from BBC Sounds. But if you're intrigued, and I think you are, then listen on. So we talk about sex and relationships on this podcast. If you want to hear us attempt to talk dirty, get familiar with the sex toys we like to use, and listen to the kind of porn we like to watch, then please check us out on BBC Sounds. In this episode, we'd like to talk about sexual preferences and how we arrived at who we are sexually. Our guest today is spoken word artist and writer Armani Saeed. She's Indian and Iraqi heritage. Big up to the Middle Eastern babes out there.

And we'll be talking to her about how she defines herself. But Poppy, let's start with you. Are you straight? I'm like 80% straight, 20% lesbian. I'm on a sliding scale. Yeah. I would never say that I'm 100 straight me neither i kind of hate that word like straight i kind of hate the word straight and gay yeah it's very black

and white isn't it there's no nuance there's no gray and i can see for gay people why the word gay is empowering like i can get that but for me personally it's like really i find those terms really limiting but growing up like i had like pictures of boys on my wall but i don't know if that was because I fancied these boys I mean I did it was like Nick Carter from the Backstreet Boys

Nick Carter oh my god I fancied him too or Angel do you remember Angel from the Buffy series David Burrows I had him on my wall stop it you're making me

make me wet massive poster that I used to kiss at night every night that is so creepy in fact where his lips were on the poster I'd actually worn it away

that is so gross mate at least you were allowed posters. I put up a poster of Cleopatra and my mum's like, what the fuck is that? Take it down now. You can't pray in this room with faces on the wall. I'm like, okay. You are now giving me a reason to have all sorts of weird sexual deviations because I just can't have posters on my wall. But anyway, coming back to the main topic of conversation.

Yeah, so I had boys on my wall growing up. So in my mind, I must have been like, well, I'm straight because that's what I'm attracted to. But I never had that conversation with myself as a teenager. I remember having gay feelings as a child and being attracted to women and really being upset with myself and being scared about it. And I just think that's like, oh shit, shit, shit.

I really hope this isn't going to lead into something. I don't want to live a life where I'm like really suppressed majority I've had straight relationships yes I've had heterosexual relationships for the majority of my life but you know I don't think that's defines me currently your partner is a man right so you could have ended up with a woman so what makes you did you realize how did you know that you were quote unquote straight I know I'm using that in an absolute yeah but I think probably because the world told me I was so I just presumed I was I don't think I've ever had like that conversation with myself or I've experimented a bit with women but not in a relationship sense absolutely no I haven't done that yet so I think um my story probably mirrors yours a bit in

the you know massively repressed being told at a very young age that if you were gay or lesbian that they'd be you'd be promised 100 years in hell at least Bollywood was a huge signifier in straight heteronormative relationships family culture, culture, society, cousins, all of that. It's only when I went to university, I think I definitely was like, wow, I just love the female form. Like I definitely, and I've had so many, I dream more about having sex with women than I do with men. So there's clearly definitely something in my subconscious. And in that kind of classic privileged way, people call it lipstick lesbians, but, you know, obviously I've had experiences with women. I've gone down on a woman.

And, you know, you have these experiences and you're like, OK, well, I think that I think I'm more straight than lesbian. But I definitely have moments where I'm like, I would love to be with a woman. I'd love to kiss a woman. I'd love to share this moment with a woman. Oh, my God. Women are so sexy. They have like sexy boobs, like Ladoos. Or mangos.

They just have like really sexy bodies and like watching lesbians get down with each other is like, turns me on. I suppose it's this age old question that, you know, especially in the Asian Desi community, if someone said that they were gay or a lesbian, often, and this has been my experience, the elders, the mums, the dads, the nannies, the aunties, the uncles are like, someone else influenced you. And I've seen from experience and just from hearing, you know, living room kitchen conversations that there is an absolute denial about sexuality being a natural thing that you feel from the inside.

It's like, how do you know you're straight? How do you know you're gay? You just know, right? But I think often our community blames other people. Oh, you know, you hung out with this trans person. You hung out with the, you know, the drag queen. Oh, you watched this program about gay sex and now you're gay. It's often, they often blame external influences when I think there's a huge denial about the fact that it comes from within. Yeah, it's inherent. It's who you are, of course. I always find it really strange that like,

often Asian people are from very large families and we belong to very large communities. I certainly did. And within my community growing up, within my family of like, I have like 15 to 30 cousins. I don't know one gay person in my community or in my family that's openly out. Isn't that crazy and unrealistic and a lie? And it blows my mind to think about, especially the next generation coming up, you know, like I would hate to think that my

niece or nephew felt like they couldn't come out. I'm ashamed to admit this, but like when I was growing up, I was taught that being gay, being lesbian was wrong. It was haram, like was not allowed. And I definitely think 13, 14 year old Poppy, if another cousin came out to her, 13, 14 year old Poppy would have absolutely judged them and been like, you're wrong, you should be doing this. I would be lying if I said 13-year-old Poppy

was progressive and open-minded enough to be like, yeah. Because my world was, you know, it was homophobic. People were homophobic. The community was homophobic. You just weren't allowed to be gay. Like, I didn't think that my mum and dad even knew what gay was. It was so hush-hushed.

It was so secret. I didn't think I knew what gay was till I saw it on TV once. And it's really fascinating how you discover it and how you find out about it. And then when your parents know that you know what homosexuality is, that's when they put the fear of God in you.

And that's when they start putting their homophobia to you. And then you kind of deflect it onto other people so 13 year old poppy was definitely very narrow-minded okay so basically i know someone like biggest gossip after my own sham marriage was this i get like a drip feed like entertainment week like weekly news feed for my sisters but like there was a certain person in the community let's say and got married and then um got divorced and there's a huge rumor circulating that he could be gay and that's why and i just think at the time i was like yes i'm so glad something bad happened to you because you were such a see you next Tuesday to me. And then I was like, actually, I feel so sorry for this guy, you know, to live a lie, to not come out if he was gay.

You know, all the kind of double lives that, you know, as women, we lead double lives. I imagine like being a guy or a girl and having to lie about your sexuality is huge. And like how brave you'd have to be to come out and the family pressures it's just I think for me growing up as well the idea of coming out to my mum or dad would just I would be terrified I think as a teenager like even having that conversation but so weird now though as an adult my mum is just so become so progressive in her like older years that I remember when I had a patch of being single I mean I was single was single for like, you know, two years. And my mum was like, you can tell me, you know.

You can tell me if you're gay. Oh, really? Oh my God. Mum, I've just been single for two years. Like, you know, it's not that. And she's like, if you told me, I'd be really happy with that. I'd be fine with it. And then she was like, I know someone now who's a lesbian now. I know somebody.

Yeah, she lives with a woman. I was like, mum, she could just live with the woman. She's like, no, no, no, they live together. You know what's happening there. You know how much love I have for her. I'm like a proper Ma Pabani groupie. Like, I love your mother. I don't even think that I could talk to my mum now in 2020

about, like, gay lesbians being bi. Like, it's just not even on the cards. Have they ever talked about homosexuality at all in any way in the house? Let me take you back to 1999. BBC Two documentary. And there was a woman, a Bengali woman, talking in Bengali and they had the subtitles on.

And I was like, which means, you know, they're in Bangladesh and it's in a documentary. My mom comes downstairs and it soon transpires within the next two minutes that the woman talking is a prostitute from one of the biggest brothels in Bangladesh, two things happened. One, my mind was blown that prostitutes existed in Bangladesh because I didn't think that they had sex workers. That is how protected I was. And number two, how quickly my mother turned off the television because she wanted me to completely be protected from the realities of what happens in her home country. Wow. wanted me to completely be protected from like the, the, the real, the kind of realities of what happens in her home country.

I did not know at the age of 13, 13 year old Poppy again, not shout out to you Poppy, I wasn't very impressed with you. But 13 year old Poppy was so, like so protected, so closeted in a way that I didn't even know that sex workers existed. And that was a sex worker.

So talking about gay, lesbian, bisexual, so closeted in a way that I didn't even know that sex workers existed. And that was a sex worker. So talking about gay, lesbian, bisexual was just not even on the cards when I realised, oh, people are gay and men can kiss and girls and girls can be together in a relationship. It was so late. I'm really embarrassed to say this. It was so late because I was so protected in this. It's like a bubble within a bubble within a bubble got together, what would you say? She'd be like, which means stop. Right. Wow.

She'd shut it down immediately. Yeah. But she's come a long way. She's come a long way. It's only two years ago, myself and my sister said to her, mum, you know, we're not going to probably marry Bengali men because I've been there, done that. And it was heartbreaking

because she kind of looked down at the ground and she was kind of rocking and she was like, but how will I speak to them? Because he didn't speak English. And that is, as you know, is such a huge part of our community and our society is, you know,

families marry families. So for me, that is her, that's her level of progress. Like admitting to her in a way that I never would have done five years ago. Yeah. That I'm not really going to

probably marry an Asian guy probably anymore. We're having this episode to talk about like our sexual identities, but the pressure to be straight comes from our culture.

Oh, yeah. It comes from what surrounds us and it's like, we love it because they're our family and we love it. But we also just really like are upset by it. Like it's's really triggering it's triggering but imagine if

you were actually gay or lesbian not the part-time 15 if you if that if that was your sexuality and every waking moment you're you're like i was programmed to think you're gonna get married and you have kids the straight thing was just from day dot you were like you had to fancy the opposite sex you had to you know you were straight in you had to fancy the opposite sex. You had to, you know, you were straight. In this episode, we are talking about sexual preferences and how we arrived at who we are sexually. And our guest today is stand-up poet, writer and performer, Amani Saeed. BBC Sounds. A puzzle appeared online.

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The Cipher. I don't know who I can trust anymore. I'm sorry, I didn't want you to find out like this. Listen on BBC Sounds. Brown Girls Do It Too. We are now joined by stand-up poet, writer and performer, Amani Saeed. Welcome to Brown Girls Do It Too.

Welcome to the show. Hello, hello. Oh my God, you guys have such good podcasting voices. They're just so rich. Oh, thank you. I was just going to say you're now a BGT alumni. A BGT. Brown Girls Do It Too. Brown Girls Do It Too, abbreviated as BGT. Or Big Tits. Or Big Tits. Sorry. But Welcome. So what's your heritage? Iraqi and Indian.

It's a really mixed one. Do you feel more Middle Eastern or do you feel more Indian, Asian? Honestly, I don't think I feel much of either. Having grown up in the States and having been born here, there's not too much to connect you with either place other than, you know, the food you eat and the clothes you wear on Eid. That's about it for me. And you identify as a bisexual is that right yeah i prefer the term queer but i guess if you were gonna use the term that everyone understands bisexual would probably

be that i prefer the term queer it sounds nicer in your mouth and also it doesn't describe to the gender binary what what's not to love exactly we're we were talking about the journey that we took and like why and how we discovered that we were straight quote unquote straight um can you tell us a little bit about your sort of journey your story like how did you discover how did you realize that you were bisexual oh it was a long and messy road i can tell you that um the best roads are messy babes fair enough I guess um maybe the first time I started questioning was when I was in high school actually there I think it was I went to high school in the states and it was a pretty liberal area um but it's it's not as as it is now I think in a lot of different high schools and places where you've got, like, you know, LGBTQ plus clubs and societies and that kinds of things.

At that time, it was still very, like, early days. And so even when someone did come out, you kind of, on the one hand, you'd be like, okay, cool. And then if someone was bi, you'd be like, oh, shit, they're such a whore. You know, they're greedy for everyone. Like, they, you know, they just need to pick a side. Like, they're on their way to becoming a lesbian. like all of the usual stuff right it was really really really misunderstood then and it was it was with the same with me there was one uh girl who was bisexual and I just remember I was so scared every time she spoke to me because I was like is she coming

on to me you know is she just wanting to be friends it's so stupid when you look back at it it's like humble yourself young Amani please but I think karma came around because I started having dreams about her you know I started like seriously and I was just like for fuck's sake really and I didn't really think about it until much later right I just wasn't even thinking about sexuality at all and then um of course as you are in high school I was on tumblr and you see all of these things on tumblr being like bi curious women they're the devil they just lead lesbians on and then they go and marry like you know a guy and they're just terrible you know you have to prove that you are bisexual and that you're into women by going down on them if you can't go down on a woman you don't like women and i was as i did really really badly about seven years ago oh no not seven years ago more than 10 years ago sorry but look first the first time you go down on a woman you don't like women and I was as I did really really badly about seven years ago oh no

not seven years ago more than 10 years ago sorry but look first the first time you go down on a guy it's not like it's magical either right yeah very very true actually it is not magical and I don't for the record like giving blowjobs sorry you go it's on the record now and it's like look seriously it's the same right I remember the first time I went down on a guy I was like what is this it's a mushroom like this is weird and you know it's it was kind of the same the first time I went down on a woman I was like I feel like this is what an oyster must be like and it's freaking me out because it's really salty but anyway because of all of those things that I was seeing I didn't think that I guess qualified to be bisexual until I went and you know had sex with a woman and so something that I did is to explore my sexuality and like I haven't really told anyone this before but like I went

to sex clubs you know swingers clubs where there would be and they were like really women friendly there were really safe spaces like it's like a secret society you're dressed in a mask you're dressed in like a nice outfit I would love to go to a sex club there's one right by the BBC that's where I went after party when we wrap party at this place please so yeah please go on continue so you're at the swingings club you're at the sex club yeah and um a woman approached me right away and you know she said let's start things off and she just kissed me and and that was it and you know she said let's start things off that's so polite yeah that was it she was like let's introduce ourselves properly and then she gave me a kiss and I was like oh

oh so all good introductions honestly qualification earned I guess I of course I loved it because women are amazing and women's bodies are phenomenal. Not that that's everything to a woman, obviously, as well. But I just remember the first time that the first woman I really got with, she was so beautiful. Like, wow, I still remember her. She just had this long, long, dark hair and these beautiful blue eyes. And when we were unclothed and when we touched each other, both of us just sighed because it felt right right that's the moment I knew and I confirmed it and it was like really beautiful it was it was a little spiritual in a way because it was like wow I have just unlocked something so incredible and that feels so correct but um after that I think unfortunately because of the

I guess parameters of what I thought bisexuality and sexuality in general had to be like, yeah, physical, physical attraction confirmed. But the thing is, looking back, I actually feel really, really sad that that's the way that I had to, I guess, quote, confirm my sexuality, because you have people who are asexual, who are still romantic, you know, and who can still be attracted to another woman who's attracted to another woman, but maybe not want to have sexual relations with her. What kind of thing does that say for them? And it's not fair because I did feel really pressured. And, you know, while I felt safe going to that club and while the club was really safe, I could have put myself in a really unsafe situation. So it kind of sucks that that was the way it had to be. Your sexuality isn't defined by

the sex that you have with people. It's about feeling and intimacy and attraction. And all of those things just aren't like literal sex. It's not really oral sex. It doesn't have to be that. It can be so many other things. That's what relationships are about, right? Yeah, exactly.

While sex does lend itself to intimacy, there's also the really beautiful intimacy you have in relationships and maybe the pillow talk before or after or in cooking with someone or in all of those other things. So it's a shame that it's sort of like downgraded to just that. And for you, Armani, growing up, like talking about sex with your family and friends and kind of, I mean, it does sound like you felt like you had to kind of come out as bisexual. So, you know, how was that speaking to your family and friends within your culture? Yeah I mean to be honest the way that I came into my queerness was through black and brown people it was through things like Black Pride it was through people like Shiva Raichandani who's like this amazing non-binary performer and writer and so coming, like my queerness was always really

conversant with my brownness and never felt like they were separate. And because I was coming into it through that way, I learned our history, you know, I heard about the fact that the British were the ones who imposed penal codes in all of their colonies that meant that homosexuality was illegal. I learned in India that there's always been fluidity of gender that there you know have well like the hijra community yeah exactly and you know i think india was one of the first places to recognize like a third gender or something similar you know and so like when i'm into it there was this big celebration of the repeal of 377 which was the british penal code that outlawed homosexuality so coming into it it always felt like queerness was a part

of brownness which was really really nice and I think a privilege in a way because I know a lot of brown people don't have that kind of history and learning as they come into that. Poppy and I were discussing how in our families and in our mosques and in our communities we never knew anyone who was gay it's almost like we didn't have anything to look up to to see ourselves in that looked like us so what you're saying is like super powerful I think I'm glad you think so but yeah it's just and I think that's like a really common thing isn't it and even like it's true there are a lot of brown people who you know are told that your culture is not compatible with your queerness and it's just like it's such an erasure of history

it's like it's a robbery really you like we get robbed of these kinds of things and so did you say you're like your family quite are they supportive of your sort of decision what's their reaction been yeah they've been amazing and again that's that's a privilege and a luxury so my I remember when I told my brothers I've got two of them and they're younger than me and one of them I just I it came out in a conversation very casually he went oh are you telling me you're bi and I was like yeah and he went okay cool love you that was it oh cute which was great and it's like that's how coming out should be it should just be like oh fab awesome okay cool and that's it and then with my parents um my mom didn't believe me which is really funny she was actually telling the thing is that she was telling

me because i had a partner when i was younger and um apparently his aunt came and asked if uh he would marry me and he would pay off all of my university tuition and she was like she told me this five years later right but she just immediately kicked her out and was like uh no what's wrong with you but she didn't tell me she didn't want to freak me out but she told me then and then she went any other secrets you know that we need to be telling each other and i went yeah i'm bi and she went haha very funny i was like shit no mom mom i'm not kidding and she went oh and i was like i thought you were supposed to know like you're supposed to know these things you're supposed to have that magical sixth sense that tells you that your child is gay.

That is the dream scenario that you see in movies. It's like when the kid comes out to the mom and is like, mom, I'm gay. And then the mom goes, I knew. I knew all along. That would never, ever happen in an Asian household. My mom would take her sandal off and chase you around the house. I think what's so refreshing having you on as well is so often and I talk from personal experience I often in terms of like families communities aunties and uncles don't haven't necessarily

always had a positive experience in that they've not been advocates necessarily or supportive of what I do. But your family sound like they are really open minded and inclusive and happy with your kind of sexual preference. Yeah, I mean, like, don't get me wrong, there have been some roadblocks, like there was a family member, basically, they called my mom, because there were some photos that I did for this henna brand called Huck That. And the founder, Sabira, is amazing. And she's a queer woman. And she was like, I want some of my identity reflected in the brand identity. Does anyone feel up for like, doing a little gayness, you know? And there's this really beautiful image of myself and another woman, Noor, and we look like we're about to kiss.

And we're all decked out, you know, we've got the gold on the henna you know showing like the bling is out there we're wearing langas and things and the image went viral you know because there's not a lot of content out like that now although now there is and it's just amazing to see it but it went viral it was picked up by like vice and so on and a family member saw it because of course i put it on my instagram and of course you know it was all around the internet and they called my mom and they were like did you know about this you know and of course you know it was all around the internet and they called my mom and they were like did you know about this you know and of course of course right and my mom went yeah and they went well it's just not part of our culture is it and like they were trying to do all of the song and dance around it they were like oh well what if Amani's employer sees this and decides they don't

want to work with her and all of that kind of thing and they said that to me too right and my answer to that was well if my employer doesn't accept queer people i'm not gonna fucking work there but my mom was great because the thing is she was a little uncomfortable with it at the beginning like she'll accept it and like we're really close you know i'm fortunate that she wouldn't you know disown me or anything like that or think of me any differently but you could tell it was new for her at least. And she just sort of squared up and she went, well, she's brown. She's got the jewelry and the henna on. So is the other girl. And they looked like they're about to kiss.

Yes, it's part of the culture. And it was like, go mom. That's so nice. Lioness protecting a cub. And that's what needs to happen. I think if more, like if parents stood up to the other nosy members of the extended family and community, that person wouldn't come back. We had an uncle once, spoke to my dad,

and he said, I saw Poppy and her sisters wear a short jacket. A short jacket? A short jacket. Mate, you should be privileged and glad that you could do a photo. I wore a fucking jacket. And yes, I'm swearing. I wore like a little blazer. And this uncle is on the phone to my dad saying,

we call it, in my family, my sisters and I call it short jacket gate. He calls up and he's like, oh, Poppy and her sisters, they're wearing short jackets, yeah? So I pick up the phone. I call him on his landline. Amazing. This has never happened before in our family history because this is classic.

Someone comes in, talks about you to your parents and that's it. And then you get scolded. So my dad obviously scolded me, told us all off. And then I called him. I was like, what did you say to my dad?

What did you say? What was the exact word? And I confronted him and it felt so cathartic. It felt so powerful. I was like, we have like 16 cousins. We all wear short jackets.

Why were we singled out? Oh no. And he was just like backtracking lying no no no I came to do your dad to talk to him about something else I didn't talk to him about this and I was like you knew how my dad would react you because my dad has a my dad had a very bad temper I get it from him um and so he reacted really badly he really told us off and I was like you knew my dad would shout at us he He's not, unfortunately, he wasn't back then. He wasn't the kind of man

that would like, sit down and tell me why you wore this short jacket. Was it ethical? He's not like that. He's like, he's like fucking shouting at us. It was awful.

I was like, you knew it would elicit that kind of reaction. Why did you do it? And I just have never felt so powerful in my life at that time. It's also this like whisper culture.

You know, it's like, I'm going to tell you this thing about so-and-so. It's like, come and talk to me. Let's have it out. Let's really discuss these crazy things that you're projecting onto all of us. Do you know how many,

this is exactly why we're so bloody repressed. I had so many like uncles and aunties saying, oh, you know, I've got a photo of you in Stepney. And I'm like, what, eating chicken and chips? Like I'm literally not doing anything in Stepney. But you had this like overarching threat, this constant threat. And you would really, you'd internalise it because you're like, oh, I can't, I can't do this. And I can't hang out in these ends.

I can't hang out in these ends because they might see me with a boy who's just a mate or he's probably gay. And it's like, it's totally innocent. And I think this is something that our community does. Like they turn very innocent moments and most of the time they are, into something seedy and gross. And then you feel dirty and then you internalize it. And then, you know, you kind of carry that baggage. Yeah. And it's that thing of, I think I remember growing up,

my mum would always say like, what will people think? Manusha kita khoy ba? Every sentence would start with and end with Manusha kita khoy ba? And what does that mean? What would people think? Yeah. It's like lokya or something like that, right? Lokyanga. Did you get a lot of that growing up?

No. And I mean, this is the thing. It's really interesting to hear you guys talk about how like, there was like, you know, the Indian mafia at your back. So the paparazzo. So true. The Indian mafia, the Bengali mafia and the paps. Do you think that you're,

do you think that you didn't have that because you grew up in the states because my bengali cousins in the states are way more um secular and like uh open-minded and progressive than the counterparts here in england it's interesting i think it's interesting that you put like secular and open-minded together because we were you know not that we were particularly the religious family but we went to jummah every friday and you know that kind of thing there was no sort of like surveillance team of aunties running around where i grew up and actually where i grew up yeah where i grew up is actually mostly south asian and east asian there was none of that there was no chasing around and like actually my understanding of islam was really

conversant with my queerness and like like, my understanding of Islam is actually very, very, very respectful towards people of different backgrounds. Like, Islam's not the oppressor for me. It's how people who are closed-minded Muslims interpret Islam and how they lay down the law as such. Like, if you think of the people who interpret our texts, they're usually straight, cis-straight men. And, but the thing is throughout our history

we've had a really rich history of like female scholars and probably queer scholars who have just been blighted from the books and the thing is like it's crazy because islam is this feminist like respectful uh you know totally equitable religion that's all about seeking justice and that gets so lost and so ever like when think of like when the birmingham sort of school stuff happened where the protests happened there you have muslims being homophobic you have uh queer people being islamophobic and it's just like we can all exist you know it's not a mutually exclusive thing where you can't be muslim and queer there are so many ways for you know you to be both and still be a believer it It's not that hard. But for some people, that's just such a leap of imagination

and so far outside of their comfort zone and understanding that they don't get that. I think that is the mainstream and the common way. Like, I mean, I went to mosque every Friday too, and I went to Saturday school and, you know, read the Quran. In that environment that I was in in there were no openly gay people and so for me it was it was part of my understanding of Islam a hundred percent I believe that you can be gay and Muslim a hundred a hundred a hundred percent but I never saw it growing up yeah and so for me it wasn't like it didn't it didn't feel like the community would

have accepted me if I was to come out I I went to Islamic school every day, seven days a week, and it was not my world either. And actually, I never saw the Islam that you talk about, Amani. I never saw Islam being queer-friendly, feminist. In fact, I did find it quite repressive. I'm definitely not an atheist. I'm definitely a card-carrying Muslim, for sure. But my relationship with is it's complicated

it's complicated but i like love hearing you see it like that yes it's really nice because it's like great i'm glad that the next generation will hopefully have more windows into it that i didn't so yeah really i think that's really powerful growing up for me like islam was always about two things it was about believing in in god believing in one god and a higher power and of course the prophet and then it was just about being a good person because all of the pillars of islam i guess when you come down to it they're they're just about doing as much good as you can in the brief sort of like borrowed time that you have in this world does being queer interfere with that no and that's it like that's the end of the story and even like you know with

other muslims who are you know your favorite word straight like it's still incumbent upon you to have to you know respect and tolerate people who are different from you and treat them no differently to yourself that is part and parcel of the religion we forget that and i think that's really sad because it shouldn't matter where you're from it shouldn't matter who you are if you're a muslim and you see another person in this world it is your duty to be kind to them and to treat them like a person and treat them like a person who is worthy of respect and dignity in that way that's it yes i love that that's so so good because what does it matter to anybody else who you sleep with truly it is no one else's business truly i mean unless you're going to

sex party then it's everyone's business everyone in that space I would I would love to what so how did you going back to that sex party how did it end then what what happened I mean with a good climax perhaps yeah oh my god no I didn't because it's really hard to make me come um but it was it was nice like it I ended up getting with a couple of married couples and having a couple of threesomes and sorry mom and it was just it's weird the way that those sex parties end they end at three in the morning and all of it and like they're always in these really weird grand old houses right that would totally look seedy in the daytime but at night they put the lights just right and prejudice a Pride and Prejudice type state home. Yes, yes. Totally like that, actually.

And it's really crazy. I'd be into that. So how does it end then? You just get a cab and you're like, right, my Uber's here. Or somebody turns on the lights like at the end of a club. Yeah, totally.

That is what happened. I just flicked on the lights and everyone's like naked and you're all looking around and then the bouncer's like, okay, everybody out. That's it. And it's really, really surreal.

So you never came then? You didn't come not once at this party? No, I didn't. But like, this is the thing, right? It's really hard for me because when I was younger, I was in like the short of it is in an abusive relationship. And after that, it was really hard for me to sort of have sex with anybody. And, you know, it was really hard to make me come. It only happens with people I really, really trust. And, you know, that kind of thing. But cumming isn't the end point of sex for me anyway. Maybe that's like me denying my rights as a woman or something like that. Like I have a friend, Salma, and she would just be so mad at me for saying that.

But it's true. Like there's a lot to enjoy in sex that's beyond cumming. And like for me. Cumming, yeah. Yeah. Can you make yourself cum? Yeah, but but still it takes some time oh oh god i'm like a coming machine lucky you i wish i was like that sorry i didn't

say that as a kind of um as an insult or a fuck you i'm sorry we talked about this in series one actually like how i didn't realize for some women it takes a long time some women don't come at all from masturbating some you know i didn't quite realize different women have different uh they come or don't come in different ways mine's about my mood sometimes i can be like in and out right that was great and sometimes i'm like come on where is it where is the orgasm and then sometimes like orgasm and it's like it's like oh nothing i call them the tbc i call them them the TBC ones. TB continued ones. Well, like the half ones. Oh, my God.

You're like, oh, okay. I came, but. Oh, those half ones are the worst. The half ones. Oh, they're so unsatisfying. Well, I keep going till I come fully. I'm like, don't think you're going to get away with this. Do you know what I mean?

I'm coming for you. Oh, my God. I'm a genius. TBC. I love that. I'm coming for you. Okay, cool. Well, now we're going to play our really stupid game.

We don't actually have a title for it yet. And each time we bring a guest on to do the game, we just ask them to suggest the title. But you can just suggest that afterwards. Right now, it's just called the Quick Five Fuck Game. We give you two options and you can pick either or, or you can go completely rogue And say something else And you can give commentary or not

It's up to you Okay Are you ready? Let's go Doggy or missionary? Against the wall What? Against the wall

Oh Don't consider that Okay Yeah I quite like an against the wall shag To be slammed. Slammed, yeah. I need a man to slam her. I need a man to throw it down.

What did you say? Well, you're either getting slammed or you're the slammer. Oh no, I always want to get slammed. Yeah. Sauce. Shouldn't even have to think about it. No, I do. Amani, are you the slammer or the slammy?

The slammy. Nice. We're all slammies. Ugh, we're such women. I know. Sorry, move on. Oh oh pubes or no pubes groomed oh i like that you're always going that's pubes groomed pubes i mean like i really my friend told me this now i can't unsee it but she was like i absolutely refuse to be completely

like hairless because i feel like men like it looks like you're underage right and after she said that I was like oh and I just I can't at the start of this series I got my first Hollywood and it's now been like maybe like a month since I got the Hollywood and the hair's now grown back in my near my in my. And my partner the other day was like, oh, it's growing back. You're growing up. And I was like, that's disgusting. You're a big girl now. You're a big girl. Who's your daddy? Who's your daddy? Problematic. Anyway, move on. On to the next. Spit or swallow? Swallow. Oh, yeah, fine. Lube it up or natural juices?

Context specific and also hole dependent. Best answer yet. Best answer yet. Hand job or foot job? Hand job. Jesus. I hate feet so much. I cannot.

I'm sorry. No one has hate feet so much. I cannot. I'm sorry. No one has nice feet. They're always ugly. My partner's got really gross toenails as well. His baby toenail looks like a cornflake. Stop it! Petition to move this conversation on before it's too long. Dildo or no dildo?

Dildo. And that is the Quick Five Foot Game. Yay! Thank you very much.part game. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you so much. You've been such a hero. So nice to have you as a brown girl doing it too on Brown Girls Dirty. Thank you so much for being part of it.

Thank you so much for having me. This has been great. Good, good. I hope it was fun and that you didn't think we were idiots, even though we are both idiots. I fully joined you in the idiocy. This was a great conversation and I wish we could do more of this i want to get slammed on the wall tonight so you've inspired me have fun thank you brown girls do it too that was the amazing amazingly honest and

candid imani saeed on brown girls do it too she was brilliant so glad to have her on i mean i felt we learned a lot from her we covered a lot of ground covered her family it's amazing to have a brown girl whose family are so supportive and advocates and are just so warm and welcoming about her sexuality yeah and she did say look there were a few stumbling blocks because what asian fat what brown family be like yeah of course you're queer like come on in give it i'll give you a hug there's always going to be some sort of obstacle yeah but it's refreshing to hear how supportive they were yeah good for her good for her and i think the other things that we learned were that maybe we both grew up as child homophobes yes i yes there's nothing else to say other than yes that is and it's

actually but all my cousins were there and sad it's embarrassing and sad. All my cousins, I don't know of a single cousin that didn't share that same sentiment. And, you know, when you were saying the use of the word gay, I mean, we would use that in a derogatory term all the time. Yeah. We've also learned that around the corner from here, there is a sex party to be had. Can we do our rat party there?

Because I would 100, you know, in terms of like a bucket list of things to do, I wish I'd like ticked the sex party, swingers party thing before I got with Mandem. Honestly,

I'd be all over that. Maybe that's the final episode that we do. That we go to a sex party and we do it live from a sex party. Can we do that, producer Rehan?

Oh, boring. COVID, he said COVID restrictions. Just mask up in it. Yeah, we'll just all get latex gloves on. Sexy. Do something kinky with the bloody alcohol gel. Well, there is like COVID fantasies, right?

Oh yeah, as we learned the other day, right? So absolutely. And I definitely have tried to snog my boyfriend while we're both wearing masks. Have you done that? And he's like, why do you keep doing that? I can't feel anything. I'm like, I love it.

Okay, so thanks so much for listening and subscribing. We love doing this podcast and we love you. That sounds like Radio 4 sex line later chat. We would love, love for you to join in the conversation by using the hashtag BrownGirlsDoItToo. You can email BrownGirlsDoItToo

at bbc.co.uk and you can also tweet at BBC Asian Network. If you like this sort of chat, then please do subscribe and download Brown Girls Do It Too. Brown Girls Do It Too.

Yo, this is Young Bud and I'm going to talk about my podcast for a bit, so turn it too. Brown girls do it too. Yo, this is Young Bud and I'm going to talk about my podcast for a bit. So turn it up. This is a safe space where we can chat about anything that is going on in your life right now. Whether it might be sexuality or gender. Let's not put ourselves in a box. There's no need to be in them.

Disability or mental health. Once you start coming to terms with things, that's when your life turns around. Just treat them like they're a normal person because that is all we are. I see you, so let me hear you. The Youngblood Podcast. Listen on BBC Sounds.