Brown Girls Do It Too - The Politics of Friendship

Episode Date: March 15, 2024

How can you successfully navigate complicated politics of female friendships? Have you had to let go of some friendships simply because your lives became too different? Do friendships change as you get older?Poppy and Rubina are joined by content creator Saroop Sangha and wellness girlie Juju Sheikh to dissect the sensitive nature of female friendships.Have a message for Poppy and Rubina? If you’re over 16, you can message the BGDIT team via WhatsApp for free on 07968100822. Or email us at [e-mail] you're in the UK, for more BBC podcasts listen on BBC Sounds: bbc.in/3UjecF5

BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. Picture the scene. You're innocently going about your day when your phone pings. An unknown number has added you to a group chat titled Sheena's Hen, my bear, here we come, palm tree emoji. The group chat is made up of 30 women and one gay man. And for some reason, all of them are called Becky. And you're all invited to this intimate, low-key gathering

that only requires you to take three days of your annual leave. And they've got a really good deal on the accommodation. If you could just transfer all of your life savings when you get a chance. Oh, and then there's also the engagement party. And the bridal shower, which is like the Henbert Classier. And she needs you there for protection from her evil future mother-in-law. Oh, and of course, the wedding is in California, but that's where they met. So cute. And here's a link to the gift registry, but they're happy to take cash too. Look, we're just trying to put things into perspective.

You see, the following episode contains strong language and adult content. But that's the least of your problems. You have to go to Sheena's hen. You're in the group chat too. You have to go to Sheena's hen as well. I'm going to another wedding at the same time. I'm busy, sorry.

Did you RSVP saying you're busy? Yeah. You're coming to the hen. You've got to do one or the other so you're going to come to the wedding and not the hen. So you're coming to California. See you in California, bitch!

I'm Rubina and the biggest thing I've asked of my friends is to take me to A&E not once but twice I'm Poppy and the biggest thing I've asked my friends

is to organise my 40th which is going to be next year are they going to do it? they said they were going to do it but I'll fucking do it

this episode is about the complicated politics of female friendships and how to maintain the peace as priorities change. Because it's always going to be hoes before bros. Or as I like to say, ovaries before brovaries.

Rubina, do you think that your female friendships have changed? Yeah, massively. I feel like they evolve continuously. There's people that like you're drawn closer to, there's people that like are there for you at certain times in your like are there for you at certain times in your life friends that you have when you're single friends that you have when you're in a couple couple friends like yeah it kind of always changes I even think our friendships change in the course of doing this podcast like definitely and like do you do you have like friends which are totally on your way of it and thinking like do everything that you do and like match your kind of energy levels on going out and stuff and then friends who don't,

you don't do that with, but you find other ways of like connecting with them. I want to take you back to 1998. No, wait, 2004. Wait, no, 2001. I'll take you back to 2001. Let's call her, I had a friend, let's call her Lucy.

And she, we went to uni, went to different unis. She phased me out she kind of was my first ghost she ghosted me and I found out later she ghosted me because I didn't invest enough in the friendship and I'd gotten married I'd found a new friend Fats who's still my best friend she lives in New York and I didn't nurture that friendship but it was the first time I was like, the priorities in that friendship has changed. And I tried to win her back. I tried.

I failed. So that's Lucy. I've got another friend in my life who's actually still in my life. Sham, I love you. We were best friends in uni, and then we've now gone our separate ways. She lives in North London,

which means I see her once a year, if that. She has two kids. Her priorities are very different to mine. So she actually helped me through my divorce, helped me through my marriage. She was a rock. She was amazing. And she still is amazing,

but we're just not as tight anymore. I've got a new group of friends who I would consider my girls. I'd consider you my girl you know you're in there my girl my girl my girl talking about my girl my girl i didn't know you were gonna do that oh i was gonna yeah um so i think friendships they they and i and i do this i have this really crude tier system which sounds awful but like you know basically tier one is your yoke your inner circle but you could get ejected out of your inner circle and go in the white egg white bit it's so funny i think i've got a few friends who i really love but don't

see that often because they live abroad or uh they live really far away or they're really busy with work kids or family whatever but those friends i love so much that like i'll always give them energy and time and message and just like I will continually try to stay in touch with them yeah and then I have some friends who try to stay in touch with me but I don't give them that same energy you're basically phasing them out I'm not phasing them out I'm just like I love hanging out with you but I'm not sure I'd message you initially to start the hangout how often would you um how often would you hang out with them like Like once or twice a year. Exactly. And this is my problem.

Social media. You know what I'm thinking about doing, by the way? I'm thinking of blocking all of my tier ones to threes on social media. Because then they have to see me. Because what's happened? Social media has ruined friendships. Because you just doom scroll. You're like, she's engaged.

She's on a second husband. They're divorced. Oh, I know what she did last week, Saturday. She's at a brunch. She's drunk. She's in my bed. Done. I'm up with everyone. So I'm genuinely, I know what she did last week, Saturday. She's at a brunch. She's drunk. She's in my bed. Done. Caught up with everyone.

So I'm genuinely, I have seriously thought about this. I want to block all of my friends that I'm forced to see them, that I have to see them for coffee and then I'm genuinely surprised when they're like, I'm pregnant or I'm engaged

or this has happened in my life. Social media is just, I think it's ruined friendships. It's made things, it's made relationships a bit more flaky. I mean, obviously you've got your like, you've got your, you know, your constants. Like you might not see that friend in six months, but you pick up from where you, you know, you pick up from where you left off.

And as a freelancer, I don't know about you. I mean, you have like a set, you have like a set job. But when you go from job to job to job, you create friendships quite quickly in a very intense, short space of time. And then you purge people, you spit them out, and then you make other friends and new friends. And it's like, as you get older, the net of keeping good friends gets smaller and smaller because you've already made your friends.

You've already made, like, your, you know, I can count. But new friends are such a joy. And like, you know, really, in my 37 years, you're a new friend. Yeah. You know, we don't need such a 2019. It's not been that long. No, new friends are a joy. I'm not saying I'm, like, imp years, you're a new friend. Yeah. You know, we don't need to switch to 2019. It's not been that long. No, new friends are a joy. I'm not saying I'm, like, impenetrable to new friends.

I don't want to make new friends. Although, if you are going to come in my life... I think you sometimes give that vibe. I do. I do, but... I think when you and I meet new people together, you're like... Yeah, but... You need them to bring you so much energy for you to even, like...

And I'm always like, hi, how are you? How's it going? And you're like, hmm. No, but... Let's see. Can I just say, you're the one drunk fucking cussing them out and be like, oh my God, was that your friend that I just cussed out? Exactly. And I'm the one like cleaning up your fucking mess. No.

That did happen once. That did happen. But my, no, my quality and my bar is so high. So if I'm going to introduce you into my circle, you have to be, you have to be given the good quality top tier shit. I like friends who are very, very different to me. That is my favourite thing. It's like friends who are like quite different. And when I was younger, I used to be really interested in people who had like opposing politics to me because I loved going out and drinking and then like trying to have these like debates with people. Because I always just thought it was

really important for me to have like a variety of friends but actually the truth is as I've gotten older I'm much more like I just want to hang out with people who I like who can agree at the same things about the news with me and we can be angry about the same stuff and get me and to be honest like and the mum thing's really interesting because I feel like I have friends who aren't mums and the friends I have that are mums and actually I do need those mum friends to be like you absolutely you understand all the stuff that like I just need to expel on you and you need to do the same and then it's just like you get it the thing the thing about like shifting like you start off with your friends right and you're all kind of in the same bubble where you're all like going to school together whatever and then those friends evolve and some of them go to

different universities different parts of the country some of them get into relationships some of them don't some of them go traveling some of the country. Some of them get into relationships, some of them don't. Some of them go travelling, some of them live abroad. Some of them live together. You know, it starts to fracture. It's almost like the distance is the start of friendships kind of being pulled apart. And then you find certain periods of your life where like lots of good unions form. For me, it was like when I was freelancing and I was just working from job to job and then it was one job. One job, I'd say like I got really good friends, which I was like, I loved all of them. They were also smart. We had like loads of good bonds. We were touring around the country with a show. And I was like, that one job I'd say like I got really good friends yeah which I was like I loved all of them they were also smart we had like loads of good bonds we were touring around the country with a show and I was like that one job like brought some really tight friends together and those are still the

friends that I go back to for everything basically you got your marriage friends and your funeral friends and they obviously that's a Venn diagram because they'd come to both if they would come to the marriage who'd come to the funeral a good friend would come to both yeah um and then you've got like reception friends, reception only. No, I'm joking. I'm joking. So we've been talking about old friends, friends that we had when we were kids, how that's like evolved, how our friendships change over time.

And now from old friends to two new friends we have in the studio right now. Yes, we have Juju Shaikhikh who is a fitness trainer and businesswoman and Saroop Sangha who works in the fashion industry welcome to Brand Girls Day 2 this is very exciting to have you here

I told you guys I was fangirling I just saw your video just before you came here and I love that you recommended us oh my god always I used to listen

to this running that was genuinely this is how it started is that how you listen to us I actually would love to get some market value like market value research so where are you listening to us I actually would love to get some market value like market value research so where are you listening to us

you're a great it's an all round podcast it started running I'm now on the tube listening to it so modes of transport are you cackling on the tube what are you doing

what's your face saying on the tube on the tube it's okay because nobody is sat like no one's like you know everyone's like looking down doing their own thing

blah blah blah but yeah oh my god like creased to myself it's when I'm running that I look bizarre because I'm laughing out loud and like people are running past you and I'm like oh my god like crease to myself it's when i'm running that i look bizarre because i'm laughing out loud and like people are running past you and i'm like what i forgot how do you i would never picture us as a podcast you listen to while you're running i know i have to listen

to aggressive rap music what's the difference between me and jay-z sometimes honestly did not know that and so this episode is about the politics of friendships and how friendships change and evolve. And like, what stage in your life are you at with friends? Like, what are they all up to? Are you like, are they married? Are they breaking up? Are they single?

Where are you at? They look way too young for divorce. They're not at divorce. I don't know how old you are. How old are you? Oh my God, I had to think about that. I'm turning 28 next month. You're young.

How old are you? Can you guess? No. 20. Round up, frown on. I don't want to play that game. It's dangerous. that I'm turning 28 next month you're young how old are you can you guess no 20 round up frown I don't want to I don't want to play that game it's dangerous

24 24 oh my god is that good I don't know yeah I thought you were older actually because of the way

you present not because of the skincare no no no yeah I was going to say I was like what no but I think that people who are like

on Instagram and like good at it which you guys are always like present physically a bit to say, I was like, what? No, but I think that people who are like on Instagram and like good at it, which you guys are, always like present physically a bit older. Yeah, I do get you. Because I think like styling is much more like scruffy as young. But like, so you're 24, 28. So there you're definitely going through like new friendships, friendships forming. Yeah.

That you're at that stage. A hundred percent. When like, I've only been in London for like two and a half years. I was telling you, I was like, I just joined a WhatsApp group to go on Sunday strolls to meet people and everyone's like I'm from this area let's meet

and I'm like oh my god this is how we're doing it but I'm here for it because like it's really hard to make friends unless it's work

and like luckily I have moved a few workplaces but like if you find a great workplace you're just stuck with the same people do you know what I mean

like it's quite hard to yeah if your work is dry or you work in IT or in finance it's just the kind of type of one person that you might meet good to mix IT or in finance, it's just the kind of type of one person that you might meet.

Good to mix it up. Absolutely. But like, you have to really kind of go out your way to find them. I didn't even think about it because as a born and raised Londoner,

both of us are. Like, your whole life, your home friends, your uni friends, your school, your work friends, they're all here. But if you've just moved here...

And when you're like Asian, if you're Punjabi, if you're South Asian, everyone knows everyone. So you go from like your big bubble and like, you know everyone, you pass people, did you see blah, blah, everyone so you go from like your big bubble and like you know everyone you pass people

did you see blah blah blah to like I have no idea what I'm doing in this like really really big city but it's great I'm just finding like

loads of new friends like people reach out on Instagram now like just Asian girls will reach out and be like oh my god I'm also South Asian

in the fashion industry I'm like yeah let's go for a coffee let's be friends that's so good that's really nice that's the good side of Gen Z and then you're like

20 you said you're turning 28 yeah I feel like 20 27 was like a big marking shift when it came to friends for me because it was like

I went through a big breakup at 27 yeah and then it was like that's when things started to shift well I ended a very long term relationship

at 26 I think I was in a relationship for like six and a half years wow a really long one so coming out of that

oh you are coming back honey look at this wow insane the hair it's the Dyson other brands are available I had my comeback year 26, 27

I was basically in a marriage forced into a marriage and divorced and then met my friends who are my lifelong friends well will be my lifelong friends I hope but like who are my lifelong friends or will be my lifelong friends I hope but like

who are my friends now and I had my glow up yeah I think it's because when you start making friends and you know I'm not saying you don't know who you are but you're much younger

but you're probably still figuring out a few aspects of your life 100% like for me it's quite funny though because when you text in the group chat

no one's available for FaceTime like my best best best best friend from like year 7 out in Australia travelling year so like half of my friends are travelling half of them are like working up like one of my friends no one's available for FaceTime. Like my best, best, best, best friend from like year seven out in Australia, traveling year. So like half of my friends are traveling. Half of them are like working up.

Like one of my friends, they've got like a family business. She's smashing it. She's like soon to be like CFO. I'm like, wow, good for you. I'm like, I just joined a WhatsApp group to meet friends on Sunday in London. You're still doing great.

Yeah. So we're all like in very different places. But actually not many of my friends are in relationships. It's just me. I'm in a six year, six plus year relationship. So like,

if you can get that past 26, 27. Yeah, clearly. Now I'm not stressing out. I'm just going to say, you're a glow up, 27, 28, something could be going down. I'm just saying.

We'll just say it. Just put it out there. Let's not manifest it for you. No, no, no. We're going clear, guys. We're going clear. Let's not clear the bar. Because my point is like going clear guys we're going clear let's not play the ball because my point is like

the people that you meet when you're that age including like men that you meet the relationships that you get into and friendships you're defining who you are you're meeting people

who will be like I like that part of you I will reflect that part of you back to you or you'll like meet someone and you're like I don't really know if I like you but I'm going to go down

this like party line with you and maybe see and then you grow up and you're like that person is so nothing like who I am now like when I got to university first year this like party line with you and maybe see. And then you're like, that person is so nothing like who I am now. Like when I got to university, first year, Edinburgh, like I come from London, poshest people I've ever met in my life,

was really excited by that. Because I was like, all these like posh white people, like this is cool, maybe this is who I am. But you realise how weird people are, like how different, shall I say, like even now I'm figuring out how faceted people are. I'm like, oh, okay. How what people are? Like how different, like just like so like multifaceted.

Like there's so much to you. Whereas when you're at school, you've got the same people, you know, everybody in and out. And when you get to like work or when you get to uni, you're like, oh, my God, there's like, I would never have thought that like you like this kind of like rave music did not have you down for that. Or like did not have you for like an afters at 4am listen to house kind of person. Yeah, it's really interesting that you said that you went to Edinburgh and met all these like posh people

more white people and all of this stuff because I had the opposite experience that I grew up in like Ascot, Windsor and I went to like an all girls

boarding school where basically there were a few brown girls but for the most part like all of my friends were like posh white girls

and then I came to London and was like more people like There were a few brown girls, but for the most part, like all of my friends were like posh white girls. And then I came to London and was like, oh, they come in different shades. And yeah, funnily enough, like all of my friends now that I made in London, I still have like a few friends from my childhood. But all of the ones I made in London are people of colour. And I feel now as I'm older that I can relate more to people of colour it's weird there's like another level of

connection yeah it's in the language the food the culture the smells the hair the way our hair hangs

how hairy we are it's all of it you just get it you just get it it's the unsaid isn't it but you also go through a bit of a phase

of hating that so like my mosque friends were all my like really Asian friends you know we got a little mosque crew there's like five of us we hung out

we were all dweebs we loved each other and then like when I like left and went to university I was like not speaking to those guys anymore I am grown up out of that

not coming back to it at all whatever whatever and now I love those guys like I have like dinners with them regularly and I'm like god these guys are so grounding for me

it just feels like home in a weird way. Yes, it feels like home. And you boomerang back to the identity, especially for like we're geriatric millennial. Well, I'm a geriatric millennial. Geriatric. No, it's an actual term.

It's an actual term. 81 to 85. Yeah. But you boomerang back to the very identity that you pushed away, that you rejected. It's so true. Yeah. Absolutely true.

I feel for the first time ever, like I want to go back to Pakistan and find my roots and connect to that part of myself. Never wanted that before. As you get older, you want to connect more to that part of you. Yeah.

But have you actually, either of you fucked up a friendship or has it like fizzled out or has something bad happened? Yes. Yeah. I actually feel like you're not out or has something bad happened? Yes. Yeah. I actually feel like you're not there yet

but you will be there. Oh, I feel like when you come out of uni you learn a lot. I really think uni is like someone catapults you into the real world and like some people

stay behind and some people like go into like the big city like London and you're like, okay, haven't spoken to certain people for so long. Yeah.

But mine aren't as deep. But let's hear about yours and then we'll probably like go into our crystal ball and think about all the friendships that we're clearly looking forward to we'll get to your failed friendship show us your pain first yeah yeah um you know interestingly i think it was more like so i was saying i i got out of a really long term relationship. And obviously, as we were saying, it shapes who you are, who you hang out with completely shapes who you are. So although that wasn't a bad thing, because he was not a bad person at all.

He definitely had a big influence on who I was. So when I came out that I was like, who am I without that person? So that was like a big year of so much growth and like doing all that work on yourself and trying to figure out who you are and what your standards are and everything that you genuinely want aside from what you think you want because of the relationship that you've been in. And I think in that time, I my standards went up quite a lot for myself. And it's not so much that not necessarily about any friendships ending more, just like being selective about who's in my close circle, because it does genuinely affect your whole life so much that I was like, I don't want to just let before it would just be like oh like I get on with you let's be best friends whereas now it's like what do you do you look after yourself do you have aspirations yeah and not in a way like oh I bring so much to the table because I'm not saying it like that it's more like I know I've done the work on myself and I know that I have good intentions and what I want out of life so I want to make sure that everyone in my really close circle also is on that same vibe basically like if you're a line in terms of what you think to shed any shed any friendships or female and male because they were

too toxic or problematic for you for you both yes I have I would say I say, I guess it's more about dating when I was single than actual friendships. But in the same way, I would date someone and be like, you're definitely not my vibe or I don't like this. And this isn't good enough for me. And we clearly don't have the same views in this way. Not going to work. Okay, bye. Whereas when I was younger, I may have just been like, oh, but it's fine. We can make it work. It'll be fine. Now I'm like just been like oh but it's fine like we can

make it work it'll be fine like now I'm like no this is definitely not gonna work I think there are some like things that like somebody can bring to the table that can be a bit like yeah I guess the word's toxic I kind of hate to use that but like I had a friend who just always um bitched about everyone yeah moaned about everyone kind of moaned about everything but bitched about everyone we knew all the time and at the time I was like like, oh, yeah. You don't realise. Yeah. Then you're just like, oh, my God, you just don't like anyone and you're bringing me down and you're making me feel like I'm gossiping with you. It takes you so long to realise. It's really negative and you don't realise.

You take it on and you're like, actually, what is the point in always seeing it really badly and why am I having to make such an effort to put a positive spin on what you're saying? Just making excuses on you, but it takes you a while to realise actually I cure the problem. Yeah. And that is the thing

you want people in your close circle that are going to like lift you up not drain your energy and by the time you're done with them like how do you feel? Yeah. That's always what I think. Do you leave feeling uplifted?

Yeah. Yeah it's fun. Some friends I definitely feel uplifted with and some friends that are going through a rough time I know that I've got to be the lifter. Yeah 100%. And I'm like

oh you're going through a really rough time I'm going to give you as much good energy as I possibly can. And like some friends go through quite rough times for, you know, a long time. Yeah. And you know them and you love them because you knew them before the rough time. Yeah, you're willing to kind of get through. You're like, we're going to get through this because I know who you really are.

Yeah, because you know who that person is, right? It's not just like they are a negative person. It's if someone, if a friend is going through something, you need to support them. I had to recently write, and it took a lot of guts to do this because it was something I recognise about myself, that I give it all the sass and confidence, but actually with people I love,

I don't confront them on things. I just kind of, I'm like, I can take it. I can take it. I'm the eldest of six. I can take it. I can take it. So I had to write a letter, I had to write two letters

to two of my best female friends to say I'm not happy I don't think this friendship is equal I feel like I give this and you're not giving enough and you're not there for me when I need you and that and that and they absolutely woke up were like fuck I'm so sorry I didn't realize I didn't know that's such a good response yeah they were amazing it's because I'm a fucking amazing friend and I give. No, I do. I give so much, but I think I gave too much to the detriment of my own now, you know, mental health. And I was like, this is, this is going to end.

I'm feeling bitter and I'm feeling resentment now. So I need to say something. But actually, I don't want to blame on me, but I should have said something sooner. They just didn't know. You take it for as long as you can. They didn't know. They didn't know. That is the thing.

They had no idea. They weren't doing it maliciously. Do you know what I mean? I just should have said it eight months before I actually said it. That's the other thing. Having friends or like any kind of relationship

in your life, you need, they need to have the ability to communicate. That is the thing. And it's so nice that you said that and they didn't let their egos get in the way.

No, no, no. They were amazing. So it's just like a good channel of communication is so important in friendships I once had a friend who we were like this we were very very young maybe like 12 13 we were friends since we were born we're still friends to this day when we were 12 or 13 we had an argument right it was like a really ridiculous argument I'd like it was like a school thing I'd teach her I'd like dobbed her in whatever it was my fault she upset. She didn't want to talk to me anymore. But we'd already planned that I was going to join her family in Centre Parcs for a week. It's going to be so funny if she listens to this.

So I was like, well, we're not talking. We're not talking right now. So I had to come home to mum and dad and be like, I'm not talking to her right now. Like, what do you think I do? Mum and dad were like, go. Like, we've paid for you to go to Centre Parcs. Yeah, you've still got to go. Asian parents.

Oh my God, yeah. We have paid for that. You better fucking go. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah so we had two years of not talking to each other but

we had a centre park break oh my god so you had a pause so we had one week of just being friends with each other again

because we were in centre parks with her family oh my god I thought you were going to be like but you made up and then you didn't talk for another two years

that's crazy that is mental so you spoke and you were friends at Centre Parcs and you spoke normally. Yeah, and we had a great time. Yeah. Like, we actually had a really great time.

Oh my God. So on the last day, you were both like, okay, goodbye. Yeah, yeah. And then you didn't talk for another two years. Oh my God. Two years. Did you go to Centre Parcs again

and now you're friends? No, I can't even remember how we made up in the end. But we're like, she's one of my best friends for life. I've known her forever. Do you have a best friend? Yeah, I do. I told you, she's in Australia.

She's been there for so long. And what makes her your best friend? Because when we started school, I had a best friend from like, so you know we have secondary school and you have primary school, right? So I came to my secondary school with a friend from primary school. So I was like, I'm not making any new friends. I've got my primary school friend. We're all good.

My primary school friend made friends with the girl that I'm now, like, best, best friends with. And I was like, are you joking? Like, we were supposed to be best friends. Like, how dare you

make other friends? Betrayal, betrayal, betrayal. Betrayal, betrayal. And then that primary school friend decided to leave. So I was like, oh, I need friends now. So I was like,

I think we should be friends. And then just turns out we actually had the wildest chemistry and we've been friends since. So the chemistry between best female friends is insane. I think that you can't be like, you can't. I mean, yes, it's different with a partner or a boyfriend, whatever, girlfriend, but like with female friendships.

I think you also grow to be such. It is like a relationship. You grow to be such a similar person. And it's nice. I think when like you were saying if you know that you're both giving the right energy you literally blossom together and you're so like

there for that person and you get that same respect back I met this really good friend at university and I don't know how to describe it it was like

kind of like what you were saying you know like instant chemistry where you're like I think there's like something going on here and I kind of felt that way about you as well like really early on

I was like I will protect you till you die and I don't know why I don't know that way about you as well like really early on I was like I will protect you till you die and I don't know why I don't know why I had like an instant like quite maternal thing over you

oh my god I literally take care of you constantly yeah you do take care of me but like it was just like really like family it is because I do think

that always helps like for me and I like you were kind of saying I think if you're from a similar background that always helps massively but I think also

you don't realise it actually shapes your life like you start to make the like better decisions like we would revise I would revise because she was revising and stuff like that and you know you grow and then the friends that you attract would all be like okay like we're gonna revise for another hour and a half and then we'll have fun blah blah blah but like that got you to uni and then that gets you to like oh actually what's my next step 100% it's with you for life and I think as you get older and you know yourself you weed out the bad friends

the toxic friends the friends that are just like sucking your energy dry exactly it just naturally happens but you do always keep one batshit crazy friend because what you want

is that one friend who's like you kind of don't know where the night's gonna go that is me and they're gonna be like you might be the funny one but I am taking you

on a fucking night out you know like you'll go older but you'll go out you'll go for drinks go to the pub and your going to be like, you might be the funny one, but I am taking you on a fucking night out. You know, I mean, you'll go older, but you'll go out, you'll go for drinks, go to the pub and your mates will be like, I gotta get home, I gotta get on the train,

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's what happens. You just need that one bad shit friend who's like, dude, the night never needs to end. And I love that shit. I'm like, really?

Where could it go? Like, I've like not gone home. I've slept on your sofa. I've like done mad shit with you because because the energy that you bring to a night sometimes it's like, this could go anywhere. Do you have any mates right now

who are married that have got kids that have fallen off a cliff that you can't see anymore? Or have they defied that? Do I have any married friends? That you don't see anymore because they're married? No, but I don't think I have any married friends.

What about friends that got into a relationship and then that relationship suddenly became such a big part of their life that they don't see you as often yeah 100 statistic to you when you are in a new relationship you lose two out of your five friends so i found basically when i went to uni because i was in a relationship at the time we were really fresh i was like don't like worry about uni we don't need to be together blah blah happened to be in the same city and he was so so good because I said from the outset right I need to make loads of friends at uni like this is really important to me I'm really social so he was so good like if we had a plan we'd like have planned for dinner and if you know at uni be last minute it'd be like okay we're gonna go out and it's like half 12 at night I mean I'm so sorry I can't come

I've got to make like I have to be present with my friends he'd be like go do it you need to make those friends and I think that's what makes the difference I think if you you have to like you say it's hard work you have to consciously make an effort of when am I going to sacrifice time with my partner you've got to put in there 100% that's what I mean I've got to join these whatsapp groups guys they're not going to find me otherwise I love that you're doing that because I think London and having been up north like London can be very cliquey yeah we're like quite stuck up yeah

we just think we're cooler and better than everyone and it's like and everyone's like like we were on one of the dating episodes you go out and no one's looking up

no you're either on a dating app you're either on your phone yes you're not really flirting with a bartender you're not really flirting with a bounce people

all the people beginning with beads no one's looking up no one's doing anything you're just like no it's so true yeah so it's good that you're doing like no it's so true and that's it's good that you're doing that

but I think it's really cool in real life when you meet somebody and you have like a chat with them and at the end they're like we should be friends and you're like yeah I love that

golden I mean I went to like a I went on one this is like very mothery but I went to like a breastfeeding clinic really early on

after I had my son and it was like breastfeeding was really difficult or at least I found it really difficult and I went to this clinic and there was only one other woman there

and I was like hey and we both had our kids in like these bear costumes and both of our children were three weeks early there was just so much like connectivity really early and in that vulnerable tired state of us like looking at each other it was like it was like a bit romantic you do that like synchronicity yeah and she like all props to her because she came out and she was like we we should be mum friends. Here is my number. And now we hang out all the time and I love her. So I made like loads of sacrifices for my boyfriend to be with my friends.

I then hate it if you're then friends with someone who's then like, oh, no, sorry, I can't because I'm with my boyfriend. Like they don't reciprocate. I feel like you get that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. And I think like being single when I was single, that was a time where I genuinely was like I I'm so chilling by myself I really enjoy my own company because when you're in a relationship from 19 to 25 or 6 you get so dependent on that person so that was so important to become so comfortable by myself that it's like I don't feel like I need to see like I want to see my boyfriend yeah but I don't need to see him I'm happy to be like I'm

going to see my friends like and yeah I don't like how people do that I think female I think like female friendships is just as important as like being on your own and growing because that's what I'm doing now I came out of a 10-year relationship and this one was like you have to be on your own it is so important for you because your identity and who you are is so wrapped up yeah in this other human that you've been with for a decade and you're like what do I like who am I

exactly that I found Sundays holy days quite difficult because it's like normally you would be snuggling or doing something or going for a walk

you just got to romanticise being by yourself you are on your own and you're like this is your time you've got to sit in this uncomfortable I mean it's not uncomfortable

now I fucking love it it's true because if you're in a couple you don't have to make too many plans you're like my plan is you my plan is monday to sunday that's my plan i just follow you around that's my plan exactly exactly that but actually you need to make firstly that's you also need to put some energy into your relationship make plans with your partner but also you need to make plans for yourself we are like i'm doing this thing for me that's out that's mine and ours and like

i think that's really important like not to get lazy because it's so easy to get lazy it's so easy to get lazy but I want to talk about another quick reference do you watch S6 in the City yes yeah yeah do you know the episode

with the Manolo Blahniks where she leaves it at the friend's house and then she comes over to you know yes and she's like it's stolen you need to pay me

and she's like why are you spending $400 on shoes and then you know this whole thing about like celebrating couples like do you feel like, well, all of us were single at one point.

Did you feel that society doesn't put single people on a pedestal as much as it puts couples on a pedestal? Yeah, because we're so hardwired, especially as Asian women, especially we are so hardwired to be like, you need to get married, have babies, have a family, be a wife. Like we're so hardwired to be like you need to get married have babies have a family be a wife like we're

so hardwired to do that that yeah even when we try to break it i feel like well for me at least deep down it was like oh but you know you need to do that so balls is precisely set up that if you're in a couple it life's easier it's easy to buy a house it's easy to move forward yeah yeah but i mean if you're single like life being single gets harder and harder it's expensive it's so expensive and all the fucking shit that you have to celebrate with couples

think about it anniversaries hen do's wedding fucking what else there's loads of shit we're always glorifying

the way that couples do anything like oh my god well done you want to get married congratulations you had sex and now one of you's pregnant

like that's how we speak to people yeah yeah the societal respect that couples get is just insane that i don't think people realize until you're single so like a lot of my family members are single because of bereavement and it's like the way that communities just turn their backs on you and you're not invited to certain things and you know you know even though they're widowed yeah and you think at first i no, no, like you're overthinking it. And then you realise, you're like, oh my God, no, that's so true. Like, you know, you'll go into their home and have tea and they'll stop by and you'll, you know, to drop something, you'll be like, come and have tea.

And they're like, no, you're okay. And you're like, that's why. It's because they don't, you know, you're not in the same boat anymore. It's really like, poor you, like can't be near you. The single brown woman is a leper. Like, I remember when I was married to my ex-husband, the amount of respect I would command walking into a room as a married woman at the tender age of 19, 20.

So I was basically a driver. But, like, wearing a sari. Like, people listened to me in the way that they never did before I was married. And, like, you could ask my mum now, Mum, I could win a Nobel Prize or I could get married. She'd be like, get married. 100%. Without fail. Even, like, just like you say ask my mum now mum I could win a Nobel Prize or I could get married she'd be like get married

100% without fail even like you say spending time by yourself like if my dad calls me she's like what are you doing this weekend

because I don't live with my boyfriend so I'm like oh I'm just chilling blah blah blah she's like are you by yourself I'm like yeah

chilling? what is chilling? yeah literally she's like on on on she's like oh yeah I know

and I'm like oh my god she's an alien concept I'm like I'm alright I'm alright it's almost like concept I'm like I'm alright I'm okay it's almost like we think that single people

couldn't possibly be happy being single and actually the truth is like being single is a choice for many many people whereas our culture

is like they're just waiting to meet somebody or it is a majority situation that's their chosen status they're not waiting to fulfil their life when a man they are fulfilled They're not waiting to fulfill their life.

They are fulfilled. They're not waiting for a man to complete them in any way. I think our nannies and our daddies and our mums and the aunties, they've had a completely different life to us, right? Oh, 100%. They are so, I hate to use this word, like brainwashed and groomed. My mum says it, they all say it, but that's all they've ever known. Yeah, 100%.

That's all they've ever known. You know it comes from a good place, but it's trying to teach them, like, it's okay to be by yourself. I mean you know it comes from a good place but it's trying to teach them like it's okay to be like by yourself like you know we're all good like it's fine it does dilute with every generation I think obviously our grandparents were a lot worse parents were not as bad and then we're even more but maybe a little bit maybe when we have kids like if any of us do they'll think that we're the strange ones I don't know Mel you should meet some of my cousins are proper fun though they're like your age but yeah it's interesting

my dad used to be so strict with us growing up he had such an intention to be so strict with us and then got to a certain age and was like oh this isn't gonna work

it's too much effort to keep a leash on your kids he's like you know that's why the youngest ones that's why I always look at my youngest siblings I was like you're so fucking lucky yeah you didn't know

they gave up on it yeah they were such an at My youngest siblings I was like you're so fucking lucky Yeah you didn't know What a tight leash Yeah That's such an older sibling Thing to say Older siblings But I believe you We did the time We did the time

Do you think it's risky To have too many couples In your friendship group And what happens When they break up In the divorce Well so My previous relationship,

okay, so I obviously met my boyfriend, started going out with my boyfriend. My sister then started going out with his best friend. So it was great, you know? Like always hanging out together, best friend sisters. I'm best friends with my sister. She is like the closest person to me. We do everything together anyway.

So my friends always, our friends always joke that we come as a package deal and if you don't get on with one of us then you're not going to get on with either of us kind of thing so it worked out well until me and him

broke up and then it just got a bit awkward and intertwined because they're still together my sister and so what were the inner politics of that

how are you navigating that well you know what it was more like it was we were all a very intertwined friendship group so at first it was like like there was a divorce in the friendship group it was almost like some the parents had gotten divorced because we were the ones that kind of like brought the whole group together um so everything had to be separate right so we would

do things and it would be like okay but you know I'll go but he can't go or if he is going then I'm not gonna go honestly it's like what do you do who do you go out with like yeah it's exactly that it's so hard when you have mutual friends as well because you're like well who do you keep yeah who's gonna come to you and you some people in the group will like literally turn around to you but I'm on your side yeah and that feels really good if someone's had an affair then it's clear cut when someone's if someone's had an affair then it's like well but then what if

your mates had the fucking affair then you're like yeah and that's that's what I was gonna say that obviously that would be awful but what if that was your best friend

you're not gonna abandon them because they're your best friend even though they did something like wrong like what do you do it's just sticky and humans are imperfect so I was like

mine has never been that deep like no one's really like gone to a point where like you you know, they've had affairs, blah, blah, blah. But there's a lot of bitching. And that's what I noticed, you know, when like someone first say something to you about someone else's like partner. And then you're a bit influenced and you're like, oh, do they do that? And I feel like sometimes. It's like the fucking traitors, isn't it? Yes.

Oh, my God. It is like that. It really gets in your head, which also we need to discuss. But anyway. Yeah. And I feel like that's when it all kind of starts breaking apart and you just realise you can't spend time with all of you all at the same time a lot.

Sometimes you do have to do things like just a few of you at a time. It's just too much. You can't sustain it. It's too much. And then you've got like the main group chat. Then you've got like the side group chat. Something slips out.

Something always slips out. And then it's like Love Island. Oh, I heard someone said this about me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've reached the Shaggy Auntie's call centre. Want advice you can't ask your real aunties for? Like, how do you ask for what you want in bed? Not sure which hole is a goal?

Where do anal beads really go? Have you been faking orgasms your whole adult life? Accidentally called your boss daddy? Is your long-time love not going down south? For more than just the tip, we're here for you. Yes, you. And you. And you.

You will know this, but at the end of each episode, we do this bit called the Shaggy Auntie's Dilemma, where someone sends us a dilemma so we're going to read it out to you and we'd love your pearls of wisdom please we are your

Shaggy Aunties please remember to ask the bill payers permission before calling us Shaggy Aunties is not medical professionals and bear no responsibility for the consequences

of your own actions it's amazing you do that in one take that was amazing she's got the T's and C's voice yeah you do a bit of a petty one, sorry.

Never petty. Never petty. Dear listener, your feelings are our feelings. My good friend got married a few years ago. She was the first in our group to do so as she married her teenage sweetheart. I organised her hen, got her an engagement gift, went to her wedding, which required two nights

staying in a very expensive hotel, and basically went all out to celebrate her. She's always been a bit ahead of me in life milestones and last year she had her first baby i'm over the moon for her obviously but i am finding it hard to accept that i won't get back all the effort i put in for her big moments i recently got engaged and all she did was an instagram post well oh was like the instagram post sorry she's also already told my maid of honour she can't make the hen weekend. What? Wait, but she's not even the maid of honour as a side thing.

She's not the maid of honour, no. She didn't even comment on the Instagram. So her dilemma is, is it wrong that I'm so annoyed? No. And should I just accept that she has different life priorities now? Yeah, no.

This is, funnily enough, what you were saying about reciprocation and friendships that it doesn't feel reciprocated I mean I think that you should always communicate and say it

maybe sandwich it in a way like this isn't an attack yeah this isn't an attack however I feel really hurt that you're not

however I've spent £1,500 and £4 and countless hours listening to your bullshit well bring the aggression down I want to live out 62 fucking pounds and four days and countless hours listening to your bullshit. Well, bring the aggression down. This is just me running along

like feeling really aggressive. Guys, my last kilometer is always a really strong one as we get to the end, honestly. It gets more aggressive as it goes on. No, I was just, I was just joking.

I was totally joking. Yeah, sorry, you were saying, you were saying, yeah. Yeah, no, I would just, I would communicate it and see how she responds at the same time unfortunately sometimes you do have to accept that if someone's at a different stage

in their life and they have all this stuff I've heard kids are intense it's a word on the street it's time consuming I guess it's funny isn't it you know when you turn 18 and the first of your friends turns 18 and you're like oh I'm going to be 18 and then you hire a lim know when you like turn 18 and the first of your friends turns 18 and you're like, oh,

we're going to be 18. And then you like hire a limo and you go to Frankie and Benny's or whatever shit you do. That's what we do. But whatever. You like go really hard on this thing

because they're the first. And I do think that, you know, the first thing in your friendship group to happen, all of you go so thrilled about it because it's such a novelty. So everyone,

everyone puts in the energy. Like she might feel like I got you the engagement. I came to your wedding. I did all this stuff. It's like everyone was doing that for her because she was the first one and everyone was hyped. And then after a while, if you're like later down the line, the novelty's worn off. I'm sorry.

Like all of your friends are getting married. You kind of become less of an exciting thing. I do agree that there has to be a reciprocal energy. But like, I think you also have to acknowledge that like the first is something special in a group it just is yeah I think you can acknowledge that but I also think that I would agree with you like communicate it she doesn't yeah I agree what do you think I agree so my sister was literally in the exact same position as this you know I watched her for years you know like pour out her heart and work really hard to do everything for her friends and you know they're all great as well

her friends are amazing and they still did loads for her when it came to her but maybe just not quite as much again like you say they had other priorities and I think seeing it unfold on the sidelines is really hard because I think I do get what you're saying about the first to do it but I still think it's a really big thing and it should be special for everyone and I think it's like coming back to kids isn't it it's like the old school auntie mentality was like my first kid is like my everything but it's like coming back to kids, isn't it? It's like the old school auntie mentality was like, my first kid is like my everything. But it's like, actually, look at how the other kids feel.

It always comes back on you and they're always a bit resentful. And I just think it's not that much harder to put the same energy in. You're not, just as somebody who has a child, I will never give the second child

the same energy. Really? How could I possibly? I have another child. Yeah. Like, how could I possibly? Your first child comes along and everything's new. It's like, bam, everyone's new. I'm another child yeah like how could I possibly your first child comes along

and everything's new it's like bam I'm a first born you can't possibly you know it's not and that's real life because it's your first that's why I was trying to say that

because I was relating exactly to the kissing I was like no way would I have the same energy for a second but my first is like it has to be because it was all new

it was all we learned everything together but that might be the case and I agree with you it's not like less love. No, no, yeah. But ultimately, she still feels cut up about it, and she still feels upset.

She has to vocalise it. And she needs to vocalise it. It doesn't feel equal. And look, she might have to accept, because she might be going through something with the kid, right? She might have to accept, you're not going to have the hen do, and the fucking saving.

Yeah, she's got other priorities as well. And she's got other priorities. You're not going to get her fully focused, front and centre, in that room, because she has a child. And's got other priorities. You're not going to get her like fully focused front and centre in that room because she has a child. And when you have a child, your perspective changes. But she clearly feels

that the friendship is not equal. Liking an Instagram post. Not even commenting. That's not even a comment, bitch. Compared to all this shit here. Nah, girl. But also, I think, you know this thing, sorry.

You know she was saying like, is it wrong to be annoyed? And my one thing is, for whatever friend you're with, if you have an annoyance or a grievance of any sort, address it. It's never wrong to talk about the thing that hurts. Exactly, communication. If you've got problems, if you're like, oh, I know this doesn't really feel that valid because maybe it's not, like, a big deal, like, couch it. Like, fine, but still say it.

Your feelings are always 100%. And that's why, well, she should do what you did, like, write a letter or a message. And actually, you know, it all depends on the energy she comes back with. If she's quite defensive, you might be like, oh, well, you know. That's why I don't really believe in talking because my friends are all firing at me. I think you should uninvite her to the wedding.

Yeah, sometimes. Basically, what we've learned is, get in there first. Yeah. First variety, first bridal, first hen do, first wedding, first anything. When your friend in your group turns around to the message and is like,

guys, I'm engaged, you'll be like, bitch, I got married last week yeah so you can be like I've seen that film Bride Wars oh my god it's just Bride Wars

yeah literally Bride Wars but I think and it's it's one of the beautiful thing about female friendships and being a woman is that we talk

like we communicate my friends and I give each other fucking poo reports there isn't anything that we don't talk about so for me to not say the massive thing

this great big chasm in our friendship that I wasn't talk about so for me to not say the massive thing this great big chasm in our friendship that I wasn't saying was so stupid especially for someone who like talks a lot about their feelings but it took so long

because I was like building it and building it and building it and clearly it sounds like she's building it so she needs to internalise for too long and then you resent

and then you start looking at everything then you start bitching in the side group then you create a side there's a lot going on she needs to just say it but say it kindly

shit sandwich and be like look this is how I feel and she might not know this friend's going through all this other bullshit with her kid she has no idea

dealing with an in-law dealing with you have no idea what's happening and women this is the sad thing about men who just

my male friends even though they probably do talk to each other but men just don't talk to each other enough I was literally about to give an example of one of my male friends who even though they probably do talk to each other, but men just don't talk to each other enough. I was literally about to give an example of one of my male friends who showed me the value of our friendship

because one time I bailed on him. We were supposed to go for brunch and I bailed on him very last minute. And he was like, fine. Three days later he called me and he was like, that really upset me because you bailed on me last minute and it felt like I wasn't that important to you

and you are so important to me. And right in that moment I was like, and you are important to me and I'm so sorry. Yeah, but see, that's so good. You responded, you recognised what I was like and you are important to me and I'm so sorry but see that's so good you responded you recognised what you'd done and you were like

no I need to change that he stood up and he was like you hurt me man by let's be friends and he told you if he hadn't have told you and he just said

I'm fine I'm fine you would have flaked again exactly and also then it would build up this is the thing that those tiny little paper cuts yeah

turn into one big yeah cash on your arm yeah fuck I've got an open wound fuck address the issue and invoice her paper cuts yeah turn into one big yeah cash on your arm yeah fuck I've got an open wound fuck address the issue and invoice her

that's what we've learnt so iconic lover thanks so much for listening to this episode guys it was a good one it was a good one but if you have any

questions or thoughts or dilemmas or issues anything that we can help you with please email us at browngirlsdoittoo at bbc.co.uk If you have any questions or thoughts or dilemmas or issues, anything that we can help you with, please email us at browngirlsdoittoo at bbc.co.uk. Or you can send us a WhatsApp or voice note to... 07968100822.

See you at Sheena's Hen then. Sheena's Hen, yeah. See you at Marbella. Here we come. Here we come. Brown Girls Do It Too. If you're listening to this podcast on the day that it's come out, that means it is actually Red Nose Day.

And in honour of this auspicious occasion, Selenie Henry has set us a very exciting task. Over to you, Len Hen. Hi, it's me, Lenie Henry. I'm dropping into all kinds of BBC Sounds podcasts to ask you to help me. Yes, you. I need to find the ultimate joke for Comic Relief Night.

You're funny. It'll be fine. Ask your listeners. Come up with a joke yourself or share one that's been in your family for years. I'll be picking the winning joke soon from Comic Relief and me. Huge thanks.

See you soon. Ta-ra. Okay, we need to have a joke for Lenny. What's everyone talking about now? What's in the zeitgeist? Taylor Swift. Yes, but maybe also, why did the fire department turn up to a house confused?

Why, I don't know. Because they said they were having problems with the air fryer. I'm supposed to think it was on fire. What is your... Cut. That was so bad. Cut. You deserve...

I just don't know. Why are you... I want the fire department to be air fryer, but I was going to be like, the air is on fire. Let's work... I thought you said the air was on fire. No, I was asking about my air fryer.

No, you need to work backwards and you need to be something like the chicken, like a chicken breast. The chicken run... Like something you put in the air fryer like a chicken breast that ran away and did something.

That's quite good. Why did the chicken cross the road? Because it went in the air fryer. Because you were trying to put it in your air fryer. Yeah! Okay, fine. Okay, I think we could do one better

okay knock knock who's there air air who air you're fried that was that was better okay

better okay so Lenny Henry Romesh Ranganathan and Claudia Winkerman walk into a bar what's the first thing they talk about I don't know what drinks they're ordering

no air fryers because everybody No, air fryers. Because everybody talks about air fryers all the time. I think that's good. I think that's good. I like that.