Brown Girls Do It Too - The Sacrifices We Make

Episode Date: January 31, 2025

Poppy and Rubina are back for season 6 of Brown Girls Do It Too and as always, they've got a few things to say! As Rubina returns as a mum of two and Poppy finds herself in love, they’re catching up as they do best but also dissecting the word sacrifice: is it a good thing, how much is too much and what regrets do they have?Have a message for Poppy and Rubina? If you’re over 16, you can message the BGDIT team via WhatsApp for free on 07968100822. Or email us at [e-mail] you're in the UK, for more BBC podcasts listen on BBC Sounds: bbc.in/3UjecF5

Hey Poppy, if it was a life or death situation, would you cut off all of your hair for me? Sorry, what? I'm just wondering what you would give up, like how far you would go, how much you might sacrifice. For me, cutting off my hair would be like you giving up your firstborn. How about the secondborn? Er, no. But I will take this opportunity to offer you a warning. This podcast contains strong language

and adult content. I think I'd rather have your hair. It would make a fantastic rug. It really would. I'm in the market for a rug, actually. Maybe like a bathroom doily that goes around the toilet. When was the last time you had sex?

Because when brown girls get down, the world tends to have a little something to say. And we've got something to say right back. This is a podcast about sex. Where we can't stop thinking about it. Talking about it. And doing it. And doing it well. Doing it and doing it and doing it well.

We always have a little thing at the end, don't we? We just go on like hot, hot, hot shakes. Do you think I'm getting better? Yeah, like better than when it was when you were like 18 or 19. I mean, I absolutely know. My vagina's completely changed shape after two kids. I'm Robina and the last thing I sacrificed was my final mini cheddar. I wanted it so bad, but the eyes of my three-year-old told me I had to give it up. I'm Poppy, and the last thing I sacrificed was my time, because

I had to spend weeks dissecting the brains of men on Big Boy Energy, and let's just say I learnt a lot. But, drumroll! My soul sister, my sister from another mister, my comrade in arms is back! I'm back. Welcome! You are in your rightfulrade in arms is back I'm back Welcome You are in your rightful place In your chair I know there's a hell of a lot of men sitting here You've cheated on me Multiple times

I know I'm sorry It was some sort of gangbang Gangbang wargy Gangbang way Yeah I listened to every episode Okay I loved it

And I missed you And you really gave those guys Like a ride Well None of them were sitting comfortably mate None of them I really think they would have got you riled up in the same way

no I love it you said everything that for women needed to be said as always you are the voice of the brown women that need you

as are you and now you're back in the hot seat how does it feel to be back I'm really happy to be back I mean it's really hard

it's really hard to leave your baby it's so hard the first time you do it and this is the first time I'm doing it it's today the first time yeah I've done like

little evenings drinks out dinner but I've not done like bye, I'm going for a day. I stayed up all night nervous for him and I am his whole world. I'm everything to him and I'm leaving him. But I left him with the person who

looks most like me, my mum. And I gave her my pyjamas to wear because they're covered in breast milk. Oh my god, really? Yeah, so hopefully he'll just be confused. Curry and milk? Amazing. Cuban and milk? hopefully you know he'll just be like is this curry and milk amazing cumin and milk when you sent me a text this morning saying i'm fighting back the tears i was like oh yeah it's so hard it is so hard it's just a real pull that's kind of why i wanted to talk about sacrifice this episode because i feel like you have to sacrifice somewhere life

is a big push and pull and yes mothers juggle lot. But the sacrifices you make to be a mum, like all the sacrifices that you do. Like I literally take food off my plate for my child all the time. I have no time to do anything for me ever. And you give up so much of your identity, of the stuff that you thought was your identity. And then you have to be reborn. Like, yes, I gave birth.

But I am also now a new person sitting in front of you. You're so different and exactly the same to the person I met in 2019. So different and exactly the same to the person I met in 2019 so different and exactly the same yeah yeah yeah being those two things at once is like quite messy I mean and today when I saw you with your 3,000 bags I mean that's not changed you always have a backpack but you are the mother of two mother of two it's a different weight I actually did a slideshow before I left work to go on maternity leave and in the slideshow one of the images is me with my fingers in my peace sign and my tongue out and I'm just like hey and it's like this is me this is the stuff I do here like this is what I do for the company and my boss came up to me afterwards and he was like I love that you're still running that slideshow and you're about to be a mum of two

yeah and I'm like sorry can mums of two not stick their tongues out and put their fingers out exactly there's like a line right people don't expect me to be silly anymore yeah and I have to I've reached a certain level of maturity that I can't talk about fanny pants. I think that's so unfair on women, though. But I'm here, ready to go, talking about fanny pants. I've just been fascinated with the term sacrifice, because it's a phrase that my mum has used a lot as well. Like, what does sacrifice mean to you?

Well, we're both brown Asians, right? My mum flings out a sacrifice. It's like a prayer. You pray five times a day, she does it 15 times a day. And my dad does it 25 times a day. We're so used to Asians throwing out the word sacrifice. Like, what does it mean? I guess for me, because it's been so entrenched,

this concept of sacrifice means the things you would give up about yourself for your family, for your siblings. And I think now that I know you as a mother, I think the biggest sacrifice is actually as a mother I think the biggest sacrifice is actually what a mother does for her child and fathers having done big boy energy but what a mother does for her child but then I'm not a mother so I guess the sacrifice I made for my siblings the sacrifice I made for younger poppy getting married when she didn't want to um sacrificed happiness for your parents a little bit and i guess for

their happiness and for their happiness and how much of you can you be you can i be completely free and i think when you are south asian and when you come from the communities we do you're constantly sacrificing and then when you speak to your white mates and your black maids and you're just a non-asian mate oh my god you did that and it's like wait sacrifice is a fucking it's like eating a slice of toast in the morning it's just we eat that for And it's like, wait, sacrifice is a fucking, it's like eating a slice of toast in the morning. We eat that for breakfast. It's not that deep. But then you come out of your world and you come out of your circle

and you realize, shit, I sacrifice so much constantly all the time because we have this sacrificing ideology and especially in Islam as well. Like do it now, go to heaven later. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, totally. And it's got religious connotations, right?

Jesus sacrificed himself on the cross. And that makes you think like, I grew up in a religious household. That stuff stays with you. You're like, I must give up. But the thing that I think is really important is that it's not always a negative thing. I feel like I don't want to be like,

oh, I sacrificed everything for you kids. Like I wanted to do that. Like I think it's really important to give up parts of yourself for other people's happiness sometimes. Because that means that you're not just this individual running in your own ship, doing your own thing. You're part of a collective and your actions have an effect on everyone around you. It's really funny to hear you say that because my friends who are mothers sound very similar because they are giving a part of themselves to their children.

I don't know if you've noticed in Western society, there's a massive thing online now about being individualistic, that we've become so greedy and so selfish. And sometimes when I talk to my friends who are mothers and just talk to other Asians, I'm reminded that actually we are a collective community and it's us and we, not I. But I sometimes have the hang ups of all the sacrificing that our family have done and it's like how are you sacrificing are you sacrificing and then rubbing in your daughter's face because that's what my parents do are you sacrificing and then making us feel guilty about it because that's also what my parents do and I guess it's like we should give up a part of

ourselves for others to make them happy but sometimes I wonder at what cost and where is too much when it's too much yeah yeah you have to make those decisions and you don't know what they are as you grow up. Right. If you make those decisions with your parents, you take those little, okay, I won't do that because they don't want me to do that. Like I was thinking about even my ambitions in life. You know, when I was growing up, I wanted to go and study English at university. And my dad was like, no, absolutely no.

Like, no way. You're not going to do that. You're going to go do the thing that's going to be practical and useful and I had to do like a presentation for him about why English would be the thing and I tried to change my mind last minute

but I remember like I had to sacrifice bits of those bits of my identity like maybe I wanted to be an actor but I would never touch that bit of my brain because I'd be like

no way no way my parents would never approve it's so funny and it would make them happy it would not make them happy and I have done stuff to make them happy

like my children are Muslim. Yeah. I'm like, chill about them being Muslim. I don't, you know, whatever. But you're doing it for your parents. I'm doing it for mum. Because it makes mum so happy. Like, I haven't done the circumcision.

That's fine. That's fine. They don't check at mosque anyway. She's not going to. Well, she does change the nappies though. But he's really young, so he's fine. Yeah, yeah, it's fine. She knows that they're not circumcised.

Yeah, yeah, she must. So I have this other theory that as're not sacrificed. Yeah, yeah, she must. So I have this other theory that as brown kids, when you grow up, you end up sacrificing, say, a lot too much all the time, constantly. But I think then you become, repressed is not the right word. You then do what I've done. You go so far the other way. You rebel.

You go so far the other way. I did the same thing. You rebel. You have a sex podcast that your. I did the same thing. You rebel. You have a sex podcast that your parents don't know about. You're talking about your fanny on stage. It's good fun. Yeah, because you're like, for so long, I did everything you wanted me to. And now I'm going to do everything I want me to. But then I've stopped thinking about you.

Yeah. This is the other thing. It's like, I think that's how far we've gone too far the other way. Yeah. I think we have. I think I have. And actually, it was really interesting what you were saying earlier about how the internet is all about you. Yeah.

Are you feeling good? Do you need to do the hard 75? Are you in a toxic relationship? Are you eating enough protein? Are you? It's like, oh, my God, fucking hell, right? It's all about me. It's all about you.

You can get into an internet spiral, right? Where you're like, I'm the only person living in this planet. And I love going and walking through public transport and thinking all of these millions of people around me have the same complex thing going on in their head that I do. Like my family, my love, my work, my life, my heart, my soul, like all of that.

All the ways I feel every single person has the universe of their emotions inside them. And suddenly you feel really overwhelmed because you're like, whoa, and we're all connected to each other. We're all connected to each other

and we all don't even look at each other. That's a really profound thing that you said. I know, I gave myself goosebumps, but it might just be cold in here. I was just going to say, you high. That was just a bit. In your life from zero to now, to this very moment,

what's the biggest thing that you've sacrificed? I think I've sacrificed a bit of my identity and I think I've sacrificed a bit of my Indian-ness to assimilate and be British. I think I've sacrificed a bit of my Indian-ness to assimilate and be British. I think I've sacrificed my language and my culture a little bit to have friends and to party and to do all the other things because I thought that's what British society was about. I think in the process of assimilating

and for me to feel comfortable at school, I gave up a lot of things that I'm really now, only now just going back back to so I think I've sacrificed a bit of my Indian-ness wow yeah wow what do you think is your biggest I definitely sacrificed a big portion of my childhood and teenage years being a terrible third parent like really didn't know who I was. I wish if I could go back in time, I wouldn't go back to my marriage. I'd go back to say 12 to 18. I really just was so confused. And my parents were kind of filling me and my identity with who they were and what I should be doing. And that's the thing with sacrifice, right? It's who you want to be and who your parents want to be versus what you project into the world. And it's this constant fight between the three.

And I think the pressures of being a brown woman as well, like the sacrifice of being a daughter-in-law, being a younger sister, an older sister. And then, you know, let's be honest, the misogyny that comes within not all brown families, but some brown families when brown men have an easier hall pass and girls don't. The sacrifice of being called a slag and not enjoying yourself or your body freely because for fear of reputation and honour and all this other shit that comes with being a brown woman. And like, of course things are changing. Things are changing for you and me, but they've come across. I've sacrificed not talking to my cousins who I loved hanging out with I've cut off all of my extended family members so

I could do this podcast with you so I could live a freer life a more authentic you a more authentic me but that comes at a cost right and since you've been away when you've had a kid a second kid who is beautiful and gorgeous I've fallen in love with someone I can't really be with because we have different life goals and I guess I'm sacrificing this love because I'm not being true to me and who I am and I could have this thing with this person now but I know me enough to know future me is going to be like what are you doing you're lying to yourself sorry is this you hard launching your scotsman no no this is a soft launch this is the first time I've mentioned it on this podcast ever on anything and you're in love with him yeah yeah wow I'm sweating actually when we're talking about it yeah yeah

dude I've known you for since 2019 and in that time you've told me you love three men. I didn't know where that was going. No, I mean I love that. My ex-partner because it's so funny

that you say that ex-partner absolutely yes of 10 years who you met. Yeah. The aberration in the middle who you also met. Absolutely not.

I look back and I was like You thought it was love like you thought it was love I thought it was love but it was like I was forced into that it's like another forced marriage

I was like what the fuck but this having learnt the lesson of the thing in between I definitely think I'm someone who I don't fall easily

but I love love oh yeah of course and I love it intensely you are intense you're an intense human being no one meets you and is like

that probably is quite chill. They're like, that was a crazy tornado that just came into the room, right? In my head, I'm so chill, but I know you're not chill. You are not chill.

Actually, I hadn't seen you for a while and I'd had the baby and I'd be like, I'd be like at home and then you came to visit and like literally like the first two hours

of seeing you, I was like, you just like, and then you stopped and you were like, sorry, I'm just talking at you. I was like, you are... I forgot that this is what it was like. I forgot that you have to really fight to have a conversation with you. But also, what I loved is that we hadn't seen each other in ages. Do you remember when we were driving up to Liverpool and you were like,

I thought it was going to be four hours of quiet, but you and I were just glittering the entire time. I know the energy. There's a lot of quiet, but you and I were just glittering the entire time. There's a lot of energy. There's a lot of energy between us. We're like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But anyway, you're in love. You've met somebody new.

But he basically, long story short, is he definitely wants kids and I definitely don't. And also he's in Scotland and I'm here. So lots of big moving obstacles. I think the kids dilemma is one that I bet you a lot of our listeners have had to think about, you know, whether you want them or not. And at that point with a partner, because I think the kids dilemma is one that I bet you a lot of our listeners have had to think about whether you want them or not and at that point with a partner

because I think there are also relationships where one person really wants a kid and the other person is not really bothered but maybe sacrifices some of their independence

to go give that to the other person and you are unwilling to make any sacrifice for this relationship and he is unwilling to give up his vision of having kids.

Yeah and actually neither of us have tried to change the other person's mind we've been really really respectful but i reckon it's like people are in three scenarios scenario one which is you and your partner where you both want kids and you both want a family right so that's scenario one scenario two is when the one that you just said someone wants a child the other one's like not that fast but okay i'll do it and then scenario three is like no no no no no this is who I am and this is who you are and why go there so like it's a complicated long distance situation ship we've basically been cosplaying um being a couple but we basically are I'm sacrificing it and of course thoughts have entered my head like what am I doing is this a mistake maybe I should just have the kid but I'm also a woman and I know about the mother load and I know

about the woman load and I know about the woman load and I know eventually when we separate and break up and divorce because that will happen, I'm going to be left with the fucking kid that I didn't even want in the first place.

Yeah, yeah. So it's sacrificing but it's kind of knowing who you are. Maybe if this happened 10 years ago, in fact, if this happened

exactly 10 years ago, I would have had the kid. So I didn't want a child but because I'm in my 20s, I'm like, okay, well. It's the time. It's the time. I'm meant to do this. I'm a but because I'm in my 20s I'm like okay well it's the time it's the time I'm meant to do this I'm a woman I'm programmed to be a mother I should want to

be a mother but now the older I've got I've realized I'm willing to make less sacrifices the only time I will make sacrifices at the cost of my own happiness is when I really love someone and I know it's the right thing to do. If it's the right thing to do... If it's going to make them more happy, then you unhappy. Like, if you do the metrics of that, like, they're always going to be happy, then, like, it will make you a bit unhappy,

but it won't make you really unhappy. Then you're like, yeah, of course I do. And it's not a principle thing, like, I'm going against my principle. Exactly. Then I absolutely will. Yeah. But the sacrifices I made in my fucking 20s

and in my teens, my God. There is a way that you could over-sacrifice, and I mean this by those people that you meet all the time, right? That are like, oh, well, I never left my kid's side for like the whole year. You know, I breastfed all night.

It's like, you're a martyr. Then you're just like always doing this martyr thing that's like, I've done it. I've given up everything. And so now you become this like iconic figure that you want to be. Talking about martyr figures,

I definitely, the child-less version of that, I definitely did that. I do it, I spoke to you about it, like I do it with my friends, I do it with my family. It's like this idea,

like a part of who I am is constantly, and I know you wouldn't think it looking at me, but I do do a lot for my family and friends, almost too much and almost at the detriment

of my own sanity, mental health, space. I definitely want to talk to you about this, actually, because you are without a doubt one of the most generous people I've ever met. You would literally take off your coat to give it to me if it was raining and then you would stand there in the rain. That is your vibe. Like I sometimes have to be like, don't take the shirt off your own back.

You're being really silly. I think it's because you're a Leo and you're an empath and you really feel things. I've always been like trying to psychoanalyse that part of you because you're like my mum in that sense. She's a Leo as well, isn't she? She'll give her car to someone and be like yeah no no you take it just take it don't worry about giving it back or anything that's like you don't even know this person that well like you've got to be careful like that over openness yes I'm like my dad in that way like my dad oh my god we had this absolute fucking drama where we had cousins from America coming to stay and my dad had not learned his lesson

he's like giving up his own bed for these cousins his actual bed and I'm like where the fuck is your wife gonna sleep he's like oh no no no no no no no I was like where's mum sleeping oh I was like why haven't you thought this through yeah why are you getting the inflatable mattress and putting them in the living room why aren't you sleeping in your own bed where's my mother gonna sleep this this is normal this is so normal so my palette down and I'm like this is. My mum, now I have two. Going back to my parents' house is a bit harder because they've got a three bedroom house, right?

And so my mum's like, oh, the eldest one who's three can come sleep with me. And I'm like, yeah, he loves her. That's absolutely fine. I went into the room that she'd set up and she'd taken the mattress off the single bed and put the mattress on the floor and gave him this really lovely little bed

with this little toy and his little stuffer. And then I looked at what was left. It was like a wooden box. She just put a rug on. My partner went in and was like, you can't sleep that that's just wood you can't and she was like it's very comfortable it's totally fine I'm basically your mother I'm basically your mom I'm like on the fucking wood on the rug and be like I'm okay yeah yeah I'm really comfortable but it's funny because like I think my mom does sacrifice a lot of things like that all the time all the time like always like if there's you know when you're if there's a biryani

and there's like how many chicken like the chicken that's not bony or the chicken that is bony the pieces of meat she'll be like oh you take this one

it's got lots of meat in it have some rust have some rust like giving everything out so then on her plate all she's got is like shrapnel bones

yeah or like the cloves the peppercorn the bay leaves and some gravy just one cardamom pod like do you know what I mean she's fine with it it's like you're not fine with it you shouldn't be fine with it this isn't okay yeah yeah but then on the other scale of my mum she also will turn around to me and be like I

sacrificed everything for you kids so that's a phrase she'll bandy around all the time and I'm like what do you mean everything I did that with my siblings I was like and actually would say it like a like card carrying sacrifice member. Like, I did this for you. I pull out my license. I'd be like, I did this for you.

So you owe me. So you owe, so what are you doing? Like you should be doing it. And so I've absolutely stopped doing that. And I stopped doing that. I really let go.

And it was quite a toxic problematic relationship with all my siblings. Well, not all my siblings, but I just needed to let go of it. Like they are adults. They know what they're doing. They they need to make mistakes but I had my mum and dad's

voice in my head so drilled into me and it took years like even when I was with my ex-partner who is white and just does not live that life it took years for me to just not be involved in my siblings shit I was always involved in their shit and like counting those things that you've done in the past like the metrics of that are really messy and i have that with my partner right now when we're like so i'm going to do something today so you're looking after the kids and you're going to do something on wednesday and try and see that thing of like tip tap tip tap really we don't do it anymore we're like just fuck it like we have to trust each other and some days it's going to be equal and some days it's not. Because if you're like, you went to the movies on Tuesday.

So I get to go swimming on Friday. And it's like, I just like that. It's just really messy. In one relationship, it wasn't equal. And I told this particular friend, you need to go fucking psycho on this guy. And like date. Because he'd forget. So I'd be like, on the 19th of September, you went here.

On the 20th of September, you went to the pub. Because he fucking forgets so I was like give him the receipts man this is what happened this is what you owe me my partner Jedi Mind tricks me quite a lot

because he's like you should probably go out you know what you should go out you should go out tomorrow just take the whole day off and I'm like oh okay

yeah what should I do and he'll be like just go meet a friend go and have a coffee and I'll be like oh my god and then I'll come back and he's like

I'm going out this evening and I'm like oh oh oh I see where you did that but I think the sacrifices that you make in a relationship are different from like the the mother-daughter father-daughter sacrifices like what kind of sacrifices do you make with your partner that you're happy to make and probably less happy to make but have to do it I guess they're called compromises, right? Yeah. My partner is a hoarder. He likes to buy shit, records,

DVDs. He has an excellent... DVDs. DVDs. When I saw your partner's DVD collection, I was like, DVDs. Dutch bro, Dutch.

My house is full of books, wall-to-wall. My house is full of DVDs, wall-to-wall, and records, wall-to-wall. And like, the man is a culture vulture.

He just like loves shit. He loves the stuff. And I also love the stuff because it also means I'm well read. I get to listen to music and I like to watch movies. Why are you complaining then? No, no, no. Because it means that he has all this stuff everywhere.

And I sometimes like a minimal room. Yeah. I like a minimal room. I'm a bit Scandi vibe sometimes. You would not think that going into your house. You have a beautiful big house. No. I'm not getting Scandi vibes.

No, no, no. It's a maximalist house. Yeah. Because I live with a maximalist. I do not live with somebody who abides by those rules. is like a little bit latino shit is everywhere every single wall has stuff so sometimes i think like i've sacrificed like because he had all the stuff and he bought i've sacrificed like the stuff that i'm into for him could you not just have one scandi wall with like one ornament one ceramic vase ceramic vase with a light like lighting it perfectly and it's

like that's your wall maybe I should I should take a room you should take a wall I feel like I've made a lot of other sacrifices in some way like I really like waking up early in the morning and getting out of the door

and going to have a coffee or going for a walk or doing something I'm not going to early bird yeah no no my partner is not that guy

on the weekend he'll be in his dressing gown for as long as possible I see and now I've got two boys and now he's bought them like mini dressing gown for as long as possible I see and now I've got two boys and now he's bought them like mini dressing gowns

and so they're all just like they're all dressing gowns and I'm like guys can we get out let's get out of the house let's get out of the house I can imagine but like you just have to adapt

to those things because you're like and there's stuff that I like that I'm like oh I'm giving this up for you and then I'm like I can sort of just do it I just won't do it with you

these are things I like to do I just won't do it with you and you'll do the things that you like that I don't like so much I remember you saying some things about things that you like doing that your partner necessarily wouldn't do with you but you've accepted it and you and actually you enjoy doing it yourself or doing it with friends whereas with me and my ex-partner we went so far the other way that it wasn't a compromise anymore it wasn't a sacrifice anymore we're just leading two different lives the sacrifice you make for

your friends what does that look like that's interesting before before you were a mother I mean before I was a mum my friends were my children almost like I'd do anything for them if they asked me for anything I'd do anything I've got like maybe three friends that at any moment if they called me yeah and they needed me I would drop everything to go and be with yeah now that's much more complicated because I have to find childcare if I need to do that. And I still would do that. I actually had a really interesting scenario very recently

with my oldest, bestest pal, who sent me a message saying, it's my birthday every year. We hang out for her birthday. We have a birthday dinner every year. She's now got a partner and now he's coming to the birthday dinner all the time. So that's fine.

Is it fine? this year yeah yeah yeah because it's like her parents come it's like a dinner oh it's always a lot yeah yeah well it's like me and her parents but anyway the partner's there so yeah it's like tight okay and she asked me this year uh and the message said uh would you be up for coming for birthday dinner I've just planned it's going to be quite low-key but also totally understand if you're really busy with the kids and the way that that into in invite was sent to me with that caveat like also really understand if you're busy with the kids I thought she was uninviting me I thought she was inviting me then immediately giving me a reason to not back out so I messaged back and said oh okay yeah it might be quite difficult

because I do have the kids on that day so yeah I hope maybe I can take it over dinner another time and then she messaged back and said well it's not that low-key actually it's my birthday dinner so that was such misconception I was like dude I don't understand I thought you were going to invite me and then I like called I called you and she was like you you have always been there for my birthday it's always something we've done ever since we've known each other like why would you think things have changed and I was like because you said things have changed inside kids I didn't realize that you had seen me like that I could still make the time if something's important I will make the time I've got lots of support I've got family support pay for nursery you know like

I'll figure it out I'll figure it out for you still but it's just a bit harder yeah what about you do you feel like you kind of have that relationship with your friends like quite sacrificial it's so interesting our experiences so different so so my friends are my children still you know when you go to someone's house you they have photos of their family i'm gonna have photos of you and my friends on my wall like my friends are my chosen family there's no bitterness or sadness it's i know obviously that my friends who have kids, especially my female friends who have kids, their children is their world and they're going to be an absolute priority. There is no way I'm making anyone choose. But I guess for me, I'm choosing, because I have to,

my friends to be the centre of my world because I'm not going to have children, right? It does shift. But in that same breath, I would say I've become more selfish. I'm sacrificing a lot less, I think, now than in my 30s and 20s. I'm sacrificing less. And I'm having much more honest conversations with my mum and dad about my sister and her partner, who is not Muslim and not Bengali. And that was an eye-opening experience, calling them up and saying, look, he's coming around for dinner next week. It's huge.

And I sometimes think when I was sacrificing, was I also leading this double life and lying? And maybe I should have just been a bit honest with myself. Can I ask you, watching your sister go through that, is there any feelings of, I should have done this and I should have been the person who opened the door for the rest of them? Yeah, yeah, yeah, there is. There really is. But then I'm like, well, I'm not fucking no longer with him, so thank God I didn't. Get me out of your fucking slag. I apologized to my ex-partner. I sent him a text the other day and I said, I said what was happening with my sister and her partner.

And I'm so sorry I hid them from you. And I didn't, I didn't do that. And he said something that it was almost too quick, but he was like, well, it's fine. Don't worry, it's fine. And it's just as well because obviously we're not together. But I wish he'd let me sit in that uncomfortableness a bit more. I think he was just trying to make me feel better and be like, well, it's fine.

So, but then I'm like, God, do I do when when relationships don't work out right the next guy I meet and I want to be with and I introduce him to my mum and then I'm no longer with him like yeah the thing is you're so hard I think you're you know you're our parents made lots of sacrifices to live in this country and they want to like not not have that sacrifice be in vain yeah so for you they're just like I want all these things for you to be like the best possible things but actually you going through a relationship that doesn't work out is the best possible thing yeah because it's the truth it's what happens and they're like you're gonna have to go through the sad bit to get to the happy bit like and they find that really difficult because they are sacrificing everything to be in these relationships that they

don't like yeah honestly like everything I had to have a word with my mum and dad because I went the other day and I actually I went for the first time and stayed during Christmas. First time in like over 13 years. Wow. And my mum loved it. She was so cute. I made them watch this documentary called The Push, which was amazing. We also sat down and watched Lord of the Rings.

I had to interpret every fucking two minutes. It was so painful. But honestly, it was really sad. My mum and dad are still shout at each other and it's horrible I'm like why are you talking to each other like that it's like your brother and sister and I I said something to them and they they kind of stopped and I'm like I feel like I'm six again in in our flat and you're screaming at each other and I feel like a child again I'm like why are you talking to mum like this and mum why are you and they just don't

communicate with each other and then I'm like, why are you talking to mum like this? And mum, why are you doing... And they just don't communicate with each other. And then I'm basically being their family marriage counsellor. That holiday, the holiday, it was so hard for me because I heard for the first time the sacrifices that my mum made for us. And they are real fucking sacrifices. They are real. I'm not negating mine or yours by any stretch,

but like I could never do what she did. And she told me the story, like she started crying and she never cries. But it was when she was 19 or 20, around that time, and my sister was born. I was two, I was three, I was in nursery. Tahira was born. She was eight months. And she's one of those kids where unlike your second one, who's amazing, she's just like not a chill baby baby like she just always wanted to be in my mom's lap and she just needed my mom's warmth and my daddy r.i.p but was like was not kind to my mom was like let's go food shopping and she's like i can't i can't my daughter and because my mom was so scared of her mother-in-law she's like your daddy made me go i really really didn't want to go shopping but she was like we'll do it really quickly we'll do it

really quickly this is a food shop for the whole house. So they go and my mum comes and she could see Tuhua, like her, she's got bruises everywhere. She's crying. Like she picks Tuhua up and she's like, she says something in Biguli. She's like, I'm a nasibo forse, which means it's in my fate. It's in my kismet to be this woman, to have this life, to sacrifice. She didn't want to go. She did not want to go. And she just held her daughter and she's like, why did I do this?

Why did I not say? She said that and there's so many other things that she said and it was the first time she was telling me this shit and I was just like, fuck, why didn't you say this to me? When you were 30 I would have spent I spent so much time hating her yeah and being so angry at her because she was so horrible to me no she was such a but it's that intergenerational trauma it's it's all the things that she went through and she didn't have a friend to talk to talk all this shit through she couldn't

just go to the cinema she couldn't just go for a walk she couldn't just go for a bike ride she couldn't just go to nando's she couldn't do all those things yeah she kept it all inside her and it was poison and it made her angry and it made her bitter and and for so long i was like are you jealous of us like you know that horrible horrible thing that you have between a mother and a daughter toxic toxicness she was misunderstood she sacrificed so much she had a husband who had no fucking backbone

because my dad was a mummy's boy and I think she was so adorable when I was talking about to who is she was like let me see his photo again

about the boyfriend yeah let me see his Instagram again let me see his photo again and what's he like and she wanted to she was so cute she wanted to write down

the names of his parents so to she wanted to write down the names of his parents so to practice it to practice saying names so she can say them right and I think she's lost out on so much of our lives

like me and my ex-partner that she's just she can't wait like honestly she was on the fucking phone to me when is he coming

when is he coming when is he coming next week next week and to get everyone's diaries to get there to make it happen I think in her head because she sacrificed so much and then sacrificed being the mum that she

feels like she wanted to be she's making up for lost time yeah and she wants to know everything but she's also fucking crazy she's like she's giving him a muslim name already and i'm like why aren't you fucking necking babes you know what i mean like i mean what i love about the story is also that like there's still hope there's still time yes there's still time to get those relationships that you want out of things you know like she's she's been given this new lease of life yes and that's cool we want to take her to Paris yeah she's never been like to any country other than Bangladesh and she sacrificed so much for us and whether we like it or not she might not have shown it in the way we wanted to and it was something um one of our guests said

on big boy energy Marvin like it was fear parenting. And you're not going to do that with your little boys. But like she didn't know this was an alien country to her. And those aunties that we cuss out so much, like in my 40th year, I am an auntie, right? I'm an auntie to your kids. I'm going to be an auntie to my siblings. And it's like I need to stop being so angry towards them.

Give them some space to speak. Give them some space to speak. So I'm going to spend less time bashing aunties and just give them the time and the space to be themselves growing up I thought sacrificing any bit of you was a negative thing it's a bad thing why would you give up any bit of yourself you know you come on this life you got one shot it's all you know you got to try and live the best your life the best that your life can be and it always felt like that growing up. And then now I'm at this age, I can totally understand the meaning of the word sacrifice

and why it has actually this incredible power and why it's really beautiful when someone sacrifices anything for you. Like what a show of love. Sacrifice to me is like a bigger thing than like love. It's all loving. Because it's like if you're giving up anything for somebody, you must really, really love them um so i've completely like i mean i i still feel like there are lines and boundaries and we need to be careful about how much we sacrifice yeah

and to what detriment to ourselves but if you are in a position where you can give something to somebody to make someone happy yeah and it doesn't affect you too much like why would you not i think the biggest change for me in terms of what the word sacrifice means meant to me in my early teens 20s 30s and now in my 40th years I like to claim constantly um is in my 20s I felt like I needed to sacrifice constantly. And now I want to do it. I want to do it because it means something to the person I love. And I'm not doing it because I feel forced to do it. That's the biggest difference. I'm doing it because of my own volition. And I think you're right. I think sacrifice is good, but I think so much of women and what we go through,

our life sometimes feels like a big carousel of sacrificing shit. Yeah, I guess my argument is that everyone's life should feel like a big carousel of sacrificing shit because that means we're all helping each other and we're connected. It should always be like that. I think we lose our interconnectivity. We don't realise that all of our actions have an impact.

You go and buy your sandwich, you don't think about anything leading up to why that sandwich arrived in your hand or where that money came into your hand it's all connected yeah I do sound high actually I love I love the thing that you you're reading a book will replace me right yeah can you just tell the listener oh yeah oh yeah I just said like it's a really good book in understanding why you're not special yeah and why it's okay to not to like, I'm not special. That's fine. I guess to expand on that thought is we're not special as us,

as just one unit, but we're special together. Yeah. I'm high too, I think. Oh, my God. It's just because you're back and we're back. And it's like, this is what the world wanted. This is what God wanted. This is what God wanted.

He wanted us back together. And also maybe it's us realising that, like, you know, this is what god wanted this is what god wanted you wanted us back together me back and also maybe it's us realizing that like you know we have sacrificed a lot to do this podcast together and we love doing that for each other and i don't know i think we have each other's backs in this really pure way and i come back here to do this with you and i would come and do it again for as long as it's fun because it's great i trust you with my life and you can cut my hair and do it again for as long as it's fun because it's great. I trust you with my life and you can cut my hair and make it into a rug. Oh my God.

We've done it. Take it. My minimalist room is going to look so good with your rug head. And now it's time for the Shaggy Aunties.

I really think that we should be in character doing Shaggy Aunties and host a game show just putting it out there. I mean, if anyone's listening. Please remember to ask the bill payers permission before calling us doing Shaggy Aunties and host a game show just putting it out there I mean if anyone's listening please remember to ask

the bill payers permission before calling us Shaggy Aunties are not medical professionals and bear no responsibility for the consequences of your own actions so I will read

this particular I'll read this message hi I just want to say I love your podcast it's the only podcast I can listen to without getting bored that's quite a compliment

isn't it? Love you guys. You're not boring. Episode after episode, I'm hooked. They keep getting stronger. I sound obsessed. We love that you're obsessed. We're obsessed with you.

Because I am. Please never stop. The brown girls in your age group need you forever. Thank you again for being so open, honest and funny. Saj from Montreal. Montreal. Fuck, is that Canada? Shout out to our Canadian bitches.

Yeah, okay. Sometimes we say things that really date us. Should we not say that? You know sometimes I say bishes instead of bitches because it's just less harsh. Anyway, thank you so much, Saj. Didn't really sound like you had a problem for the Shaggly Aunties to solve, but we love that you got in touch. Yeah, and actually what Saj said at the end, the brown girls in your age group need you forever. I love when girls say that because it's like we needed us.

Also Saj, just we're going to die. Okay, so thank you so much Saj for your message. We really appreciate it and thanks everyone for listening I'm so happy to be back I'm so happy that you're back it does feel like

something's happened like we've grown up a bit don't you think look at us today even I'm looking over you look almost 40

because we're both in black maybe that's why we've become chic if you have any thoughts, questions or dilemmas for the Shagging aunties you can email us

at browngirlsdoittoo at bbc.co.uk or you can send us a whatsapp or voice note to are we doing the song are we doing it yeah of course

07968 108 22 bye bye