Brown Girls Do It Too - The skinny episode

Episode Date: March 14, 2025

Kate Moss once said 'nothing tastes as good as skinny feels'. She was wrong. So why do Poppy and Rubina even care about their weight? And are they the only ones?From growing up surrounded by food as a love language to women's post-partum bodies to the awful inner voice that says you're never enough, there are so many ways in which women are made to feel bad about themselves and Poppy and Rubina have had enough! Why are we like this even when we know it's wrong? Poppy and Rubina chew the fat on why skinny is such a preoccupation for them both.Have a message for Poppy and Rubina? If you’re over 16, you can message the BGDIT team via WhatsApp for free on 07968100822. Or email us at [e-mail] you're in the UK, for more BBC podcasts listen on BBC Sounds: bbc.in/3UjecF5

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Hiya, I'm podcaster Audrey Akande and on Dear Daughter Stars, I'm showing a letter to my daughter about taking up space in the world. Dear Daughter Stars from the BBC World Service. Listen now by searching for Dear Daughter wherever you get your BBC podcasts. I'll have a skinny Frappuccino with a low-fat yogurt and a skinny blueberry muffin, please. All right, well, I'll have the pancakes with bacon, turkey bacon, hash browns and fried bread minus the calories please. Huh? I'm on a diet.

It's a paleo-keto-Atkins thing. Kate Moss once said, nothing tastes as good as skinny feels. She was wrong. Pancakes with bacon, haram but delicious. Turkey bacon, halal but delicious. Hash browns, carby but delicious. Haggis, disgusting but delicious. I love haggis so much.

See, Kate was wrong. Models, god they're so... Uh, poppy. Oh yeah, right. This podcast contains very strong language, mostly by me, and themes of an adult nature. And haggis. So much haggis. I love haggis so much. So in this episode, we'll be talking about weight, calories, and dieting. So if that's something you'd find uncomfortable, please head over to BBC Sounds for one of our other episodes.

When was the last time you had sex? Because when brown girls get down, the world tends to have a little something to say. And we've got something to say right back. This is a podcast about sex. Where we can't stop thinking about it, talking about it, and doing it. I'm Poppy and the last time I thought about my weight was about 23 minutes ago when I was having my baked oats.

Oh, when you eat, that's when you're thinking about it. No, I think about my weight constantly, but you were being so funny as was producer Zaina, so I didn't have time to think about my weight. So I really, really think about it. But I think about my weight constantly. Okay, I'm Robina, and the last time I thought about my weight was when I put my trousers on this morning,

and I did the button up, and it was snug, and I was like, by the end of the day, this is gonna be very uncomfortable. All right, okay. Do you know why I'm in tracksuit bottoms? Because it's why? Because it's the thing I'm most comfortable in. Yeah, because your weight fluctuates at the day, doesn't it?

My weight has been fluctuating for the last two years. In COVID, I was the skinniest I'd ever been. I'd never been this way and the clothes felt good and I felt good even though I basically wasn't eating that much and exercising insanely. And now none of my clothes fit me. And I'm just like, I'm gonna be in tracksuit bottoms because I'm just, I'm happier. But then I'm always just in tracksuit bottoms. Can I just say that is actually the postpartum way. I'm only wearing these jeans

because I went to a cherry shop yesterday and was like, wow, these jeans are two pounds. They're nice jeans. These jeans are two pounds by the way. These jeans I'm wearing right now, they're two pounds. Are they jeans? Oh right, yeah, yeah, of course. And I was like, they're two pounds. I was like, they're not going to fit me. They're

not going to fit me. They're not going to fit me. And I put them in and I was like, oh my god, they fit. They just fit. Just. I'm buying them. I was like, I will get thin because then they will fit comfortably. And then I put them on this morning. I'm like, they don't just fit. Actually, I'm going to be uncomfortable. They're just fitting. And then when it touches the thighs and the bum, you know, when certain bits of clothing are snug around certain. So I have quite a small bum so I didn't have that problem but I have all this other shit where like when I will take these off at the end of the day the button imprint will be

on my tummy and I'm like oh does that happen to everyone? Yeah it happens to me. Okay great I just wanted to know. Anyway I really wanted to talk about this episode today and do an episode specifically about being skinny because it occupies so much of my brain space. And I know we've talked about that together before. And so I know you'll have a lot to say, but personally for me, when I first met you, we did the Times photo shoot together because we'd won podcast of the year. And I remember looking at those photos and being like, wow, we both look

really hot and we both look the same size. And I was like, this is cool. Like I'm with someone who's like really into their skin, into how they are and me too. Great. And then as our journey's carried on, I got pregnant and got bigger and bigger and bigger and you got thinner and thinner and thinner. And I cannot tell you how difficult it was for me to watch that and be part of it because I was getting bigger and it was my first pregnancy as well. And I was like, I will never return to a normal size. This is just me. And you were getting thinner. You were getting so thin. And I remember thinking, wow, this is going to be really difficult in my head being like, don't think about it. You're pregnant. You're like, you know, like really having to like coach myself. So I didn't feel bad about myself. And I think as we go on these

journeys together, both of our weights has changed quite a lot. And the way that we talk about eating and diets and how we feel about ourselves because you are so vocal about it. And I feel like I've never, I've never been honest with you. Like I've never come out and told you about how I think and feel about my body. Okay. Hold my hand. We're going to go on a journey because I have so much to say. Yeah. So I think about my weight, right? And I think it really started for me at university. I'm so angry at the models I grew up with.

I'm so angry at the fashion industry. I'm so angry at the rom-coms I watched. I'm so angry at the fucking TV I consumed from a young age where I did not see anyone like me. Someone asked me the other day, if you had a chance to be Poppy Delveen, who's a white skinny socialite or Maya Jammer, who would you pick? And I picked Poppy Delveen because that is the damage.

And it's 40 years of damage. Okay. And now we're seeing body positivity and that's fucking bullshit because skinny is back now. Right. And like, even when we, when we were talking about doing this episode, we were like, can we call it skinny? And I'm like, we need to be fucking honest. Like, I don't know a single girlfriend of mine

who does not think about weight. The difference between me, and I think this is something I do that's really bad actually, is I talk about it. And I forget sometimes, other people don't talk about it. So all these like skinny girls who are like, it's like, yeah, some of them must be naturally slim, of course, but like, they're thinking about their weight,

they're thinking about their arms, they're thinking about what they can or can't eat. Everyone's, we're all thinking about it. I just talk about it. And I remember how damaging it was because two of my really good friends on that hip hop documentary I did in America, where I was pretty much like 59 kilograms,

the lowest I've ever been. And I just talked about food and they, one of them, and they're really good friends of mine now, but one of them said to me afterwards, it kind of, you talk about food a lot and it rubbed off on me, on us. And I was just like, absolutely mortified. Because you were displaying the culture

that you have absorbed from the culture. You're just putting out there what you think. And obsessing over it. And every waking moment is an obsession. were displaying the culture that you have absorbed from the culture. You're just putting out there what you think. And obsessing over it. And every waking moment is an obsession. And then I was talking to my sister who's like, her side hustle is styling. And she was styling me. I don't know why I'm doing this.

She styled me and then she's like, don't fucking attribute any of this to me because I don't like your look. And she's a stylist and she follows other stylists. And it's like, where are the size 12s? Where are the size 14s? Cause either you get skinny size eights or tens or sixes, or you get plus size 18, 20, but you get no one in the middle.

No one in the middle. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, I mean, just hearing you talk made me think about how really early on in our relationship, you would say that you had body dysmorphia and it would really annoy me that you would say that because I'd be like, you're really confident. And I cannot believe that someone like you could feel that way about your body. And I feel like that also made me feel like a terrible friend because I was like, but I do believe you feel that way. But I just never understood how you could, how you,

who's literally one of the most confident people I know, banging body, fierce face, like everyone who comes on this fucking podcast fancies you and yet you still have this insecurity about your weight. And that's the thing, isn't it? I remember you, when I was going through the worst time in series five, you said something to me, I wish I could play it. You said, you're not the top 3% of best looking people in the world. You're probably like top five or top 10. I just made me smile. But this is the thing, isn't it? It doesn't matter how you look to other people.

And I am very confident, but this is the other thing. I don't think, as some of my friends would disagree, I don't have an eating disorder, but I have a, I have disordered eating. So I have a weird relationship with food. But here's the thing, I complain, but I still get shit faced. I complain, but I still eat. I complain, but I still get shit faced. I complain, but I still eat. I complain, but I still get a delivery. But then I have a love-hate relationship.

You have guilt after food. And then I'm having these weird epiphanies, like I'm 40. Am I gonna be doing this while I'm 50? So because we do this podcast, I have always been really quiet about how I feel about my body, because I feel like there are lots of young women listening. And I don't want to talk about how I feel about my body because I feel like there are lots of young women listening and I don't want to talk about how much I hate my body because I don't want anyone out there to feel that way. But once you have a baby, the way that you look at your naked body is so

different. Like I have stretch marks, I have fat in places I never had before, I have cellulite, I have hair in places I didn't have before. And I'm, I literally like weigh myself now, which I just never, I never used to fucking weigh myself. I never used to fucking weigh myself. I downloaded a fucking calorie counter app and I did this thing where I started doing that. And I was like, okay, well I'll just check. Cause I want to like, you know, just check that I'm, you know, being healthy or whatever. But I could feel the bit of my brain that was like, this is dangerous territory. This is you're slipping into dangerous territory. And I tried to retract. So I grew up in my, this is, you know, in my Muslim community, where I had two of my very, very good friends who had severe eating disorders

when we were teenagers. And it scared the shit out of me because I watched them deteriorate their bodies. I watched them get really, really sick. And at that time, when I was a teenager, I didn't understand it. I didn't have a reference for it. I never thought about being skinny. I was just naturally thin. I was naturally thin. And a lot of my friends were like, you're naturally skinny. You never had to worry about that stuff. And nature has had its course with my body. And I've started to be like, whoa, now I don't feel like this light thing that I used to be. Because you're right, there are going to be younger girls listening to this. And whether we like it or not, and I actually do like it,

I like being a role model to these women because I didn't have a fucking role model. So if they get to see someone with big hips and big thighs, they should do that. And I should I should be the I'm not saying all lands on me, but I should be the one to lead the way. And I think I think that is what I'm slowly beginning to realize now that I'm turning 40, because I've had the last 20 years of this. And I was saying to myself, I can't keep doing this.

At my worst, I had a nutritionist. I had to take, how bad it was, I had to take, this is actually fucking jokes as well. So you could do the fitness tracker thing. Or you take photos of your food, and then you send it to her on this app. You send it to your nutritionist. Yeah. So you upload it on this app. So she can see. So I take, but I wouldn't cheat. So even when I was grazing and I was like having nuts, I'd be like, I'll surely take photos of this. I'd put it back out. We spit out the nuts. Three almonds. Ten. But then I'd be like, this mulch on the table.

And I was going, remember going on holiday and this was everything, like beverages, everything. And I remember looking back the next day and being like these really drunk photos of like really disgusting food on the table, on the plate. But like I had a nutritionist and she turned into my, oddly she turned into my therapist because I just,

oh my God, it was so hard. I just, I was yo-yoing and I just couldn't get it down. And the reason why it was down in COVID is because we didn't do anything. We didn't go out. All I did was exercise. And what people don't tell you is to stay that thin, to stay 59 kilograms with my body type.

And your genetics. And your genetics. And my genetics. I probably ate 1400 calories and I exercised five times a day, maybe six times a day. And I topped it off with a walk, with an hour long walk. That is how much. And that is no booze, no going out. And that would just be to maintain that weight. That would just be to maintain that weight. So when I was doing 24 hours in police,

when I met you in 2019, I was the highest I've ever been. And then in that 2019 to 2020, I dropped that weight and no one tells you and maybe these presenters, because they're really their livelihood depends on it, which is so sad. They have to have a team of people to keep the weight that much. But what I had to do, people are like, you look so great, you look so amazing. And it's like, and I ordered all these clothes. The language around that's pretty interesting as well.

I went for dinner with some friends recently and they were like, oh, we both lost weight. And I was like, you look great. And I didn't really know how to respond to that, but I know that my natural response, the culturally appropriate response is to be like was like, you look great. And I didn't really know how to respond to that. But I know that my natural response, the culturally appropriate response is to be like, well, you look great. But the truth is they always look great to me. They're like my two very hot friends. And I was a bit angry that I had said it because then I couldn't take it back. And I was like, well, now what do I do? Because they think that I'm going

to approve of that. Do you think you're now wary of your weight and your body image because you're now the mother of two and there's all this stuff online where you see, you know, the whole bounce back women celebrities who have babies and then after three months they're like, yeah, I mean any woman who has had a baby knows that the internet knows that you've had a baby. Like the internet knows unless you're really smart with your search engines, the internet knows. So they're like throwing shit at you. Like not just like baby products, sleep training methods,

what you should be feeding your baby. But it's like so much of it is around you returning to who you were before, which is an impossible feat. Do not try to return to who you were before. You were a new person. You gave birth to a new person. You're a new fucking person. Enjoy that new person.

Like do it. I saw a video the other day're a new fucking person. Enjoy that new person. Like do it. I saw a video the other day of a guy who was a personal trainer. And he was just like, this is my wife after having a baby. And what she could have done is she could have sat on the sofa, she could have recovered. She could have spent her time with the baby. She could have done all this other stuff. But instead of what she chose to do every day, one week postpartum, weights, running, everything, she got straight back into it. And I couldn't be prouder of her.

Here she is like doing weights with me. And I was like, fuck you, brother. How dare you do that? How dare you tell women what they should be doing postpartum? It's none of your fucking business. And like the thing that a woman's body does when they give birth is so miraculous that I will never hate on my body for it.

Like I have self-conscious moments, right? I have a long length mirror, I shower, I look at myself naked every day and I'm like, oh wow, definitely not thin on there. Or sometimes I'm like, oh this arm's looking a bit thin, because you know, I'm basically weight training because I'm carrying a baby all the time. But like, and I'll do that and I'll try and be nice and nasty to myself. And I hate, hate when I talk bad about myself. I'm getting a bit emotional in the mirror because I'm like, you just gave birth.

Your body did this incredible thing. It's keeping you alive. It's keeping you healthy. You know, be good to it. Like, don't be shit to your body. Like, I really hate that because I can hear the inner voice for me sometimes. And it's a really, really fucking nasty inner voice.

And it upsets me. It upsets that she's inside there somewhere, making me feel fucking terrible about my bingo wings or my fucking cellulite or the fact that like my tummy has a little punch where the skin was that held my fucking baby. Like, fuck off. I hate my inner voice.

I actually, I'm trying to get her to like, I wanna turn the volume down on her because I know that inner voice. Like every, I'm trying to get her to like, I want to turn the volume down on her because I know that inner voice. Like every time I go past a mirror naked, I suck my belly in. I'm like, what am I doing? Every time I look at my thighs, it's not really my belly, it's my thigh. Just how have we as a generation of women, older and younger, got to this stage where we are capable of making babies, getting our bodies to do these incredible things and then this really reductive state of mind being like, that thigh is too big, you don't have a thigh gap, your hips are too big. Clothes, I remember I wore ill-fitting clothes. I've got two Instagram accounts, right? There's a Poppy J

one and then there's the real one, which was my work one. And I had to unfollow so many skinny white girls because they were fucking up my mental health. You know, for so long, I thought when I say I thought I had Kate Moss's body, that's how bad the body to smear was. So then I would go into Topshop because she was doing this whole deal with them. I'd wear the clothes that she would wear and it wouldn't go beyond my hips. Or it would look bad because I'm bottom heavy, right? I'm a classic pear shape. She's a rail. And I'd look at, I'd go to Dorothy Perkins, I'd go to Ms Selfish. I used to work in Top Shop Oxford Circus, right? The Mecca. And I would, you know, of course not the real Mecca, I don't want the Muslims coming after me, but like it was the place that we would all

hang out. But I think the fashion industry, the magazines, the media culture, they have so much to answer for. Like, this is a drip, drip effect, right? This is 40 years in our support. But it's also us. That's also the problem. That's what I'm saying. That's like, I'm blaming my inner voice because I think it's about how we project to each other. So this is, you know, we were talking about how if you talk about food and I talk about food and we're like, doing that to each other sometimes without even knowing like it's about something about the sisterhood about being like, I'm not just

blindly going to tell you you look hot and skinny all the time. But I think I, I need you to trust that I believe that. And then that will give you the self-confidence to like also know that you should feel it. I don't know, like I'm trying to figure out like conversations I've had like two conversations I had recently that made me be like, God, that's so weird. Like I'm going to a friend's wedding in the summer and it's an Indian wedding and she wants everyone to wear Indian and she wants to wear a Lenga. She's very thin. And I was like, Oh, I kind of want to wear a sari. And she was like, we'll do whatever's right for your body type. And I was like, that's not a fucking weird thing to say. Why? Because I'm bigger than you. And all of those small

things we say to each other that attach, that hook into our brains a little bit, just fucking let's stop doing that shit. It's women as well as society. It's women. Oh, massively it's women. The other thing I'm noticing is since I downloaded that calorie counting app, obviously the algorithm now knows that I'm kind of vaguely interested in whale ass. And so I'm getting all of these awful toxic videos of body transformations, you know, like the side shot me and then that and like how many calories I dropped or the worst of the worst. Why I ate in a day. Oh

my God. I save all of them. What I ate in a day. I don't care. Why am I watching all of these people? But I think I don't fucking I don't know. I've got this weird like and sadomasochistic relationship with those videos But I save it in the kind of like like I save an article. Oh, I'll read it one day Oh, she made lemon and ginger cube thingies. I must do that. But you're like, I'm fascinated and then I was gonna do a jokes one Where I was like what I do in a day. Wake up, scratch my fanny, make a cup of coffee. I was gonna make a joke one, not an actual oh my god this is what I do in a day. No the internet needs a realistic thing of what I actually ate in a day which is like sometimes I have days where I snack, sometimes I have days where I eat really healthy, sometimes

like if you're listening to your body, your hormones, your sleep pattern, how much you exercise, that all correlates to exactly how much you should be eating anyway. You shouldn't be fucking following some thing where you eat the same thing, brown rice, broccoli, bit salmon, you know those guys, they're just like always eating the same thing every day and you're like, can I just say this is a really quick sidebar. There was this guy I was talking to and he honestly gave me the biggest fucking ick because I'm like, you must be really predictable and say me in bed then. He batch cooks for like months and eats the same meal every fucking day, like chicken breast, quinoa, or like a portion of brown rice and tender stem broccoli every day. And I'm like, do you have a crazy day? And he's like,

yes, that's Friday. I have steak. So I was like, so on every Friday, which is your crazy day, you have the same crazy meal. I'm like, okay, bye. See you later. This is the other thing. People who eat well, sleep well. People who eat well, shag well and sleep well. I think I guess what I find really annoying about me, what I really hate about me, that voice is you're not even doing anything. You do loads. I know, but I always, I reset. So I lose, event, get smashed, or as producers say, I go to a function, get smashed, calories, two deliveries, it's a cycle. So I'm in this cycle. So I remember you used to come in with this Tupperware and in the Tupperware you had these

additional compartments, which were your like snack compartments. And in one you'd have like three strawberries and another one you'd have like a handful of granola. And I'd be like, what is this? Because they tell you to. So my. Were you weighing your food? Yeah, because my problem is I graze and I could clock up 600 calories just grazing. Yeah. I'm cooking something, cooking a curry, cooking something. I'm like. Nibble. Nibble. I'm such a fucking nibbler. My ex-partner used to be like your little mouse. Like you go and you

bite something and then you leave it. And then that's why I do. So I'm trying to get better at that. Also, my relationship with food is getting better in that I now cook things and I take great enjoyment from cooking and it's fine. It's therapeutic. But also Pops, we're both from cultures where the, you know, our love language is food. Like it's the way that we tell each other we love each other and we cook for a thousand people even though there's only three of us. And so you end up eating bowls and bowls of rice. Like every time I go see my mum, I've eaten just so much rice. Well, now I have to not eat breakfast, skip breakfast, because if I'm going to my

mum's house that calorie for breakfast is going to have to be rice. But then I do have to be sensible and smart, right? We do also have diabetes. We all also have diabetes, right? So you can't just be like, well I've got the metabolism of a 22 year old so I'm going to eat whatever the fuck I want. Those days are over and we do need to be smart and sensible. But sometimes I think we shoot ourselves in the foot. We're a very conflicting, paradoxical community and hear me out. On the one hand, we show our love with our food, but on the other hand, some of the bitches, and I talk about the Kate Mosses, the Alexa Chung's, the Sienna Millers, you know, all those figures that I grew up with, those celebrities I grew up

with. But some of the most toxic people in my life have been inside my family home. Not necessarily, not my sisters, but like aunties. I remember I never understood, I was always probably a size 8 or a 10, so I was always naturally slim. And I remember being 16, doing those boots weight thing. That's the first time I became aware of weight. You know when you go on the machines and I had my cellocamese on because that's the only thing I was allowed to wear. And I went on and with the clothes and shoes and boots and everything it came up to 50 kilograms.

I really want to go back to 16 year old Poppy because I had no concept of what 52 kilograms even meant. I was slim. I didn't know the significance of that. It's when I went to uni and I had money, a student loan, and was going to Topshop and then you know all these figures, I became aware of celebrities. I was eating Chinese takeaways. I was just not very good with my health but still relatively slim because I have the body of a 20 year old. I did start putting on the puppy weight you know the chicken and chow mein weight here and there. Fresh as fatties. Fresh as fatties. And I would go to my daddy's house and it it's like a, so you know, Jennifer Hudson's show there, she's there's this thing where all of the people line up and then the guests

walk through. It would be like that. I'd walk through my daddy's house aunties on either side being like, you're fat. Just like that. You've got like, you're fatty, you're fat, you're fat. And I grew up with Asian girls, all my cousins were skinny. In fact, it was my family and my family, a bit like the Addams family of the eight, because you've got a big family on your dad's side, right? All my cousins were like size eights, tens. All of me and my sisters and all of us,

I'm sorry if this triggers people, but like all of us went through a fat phase. Like at my heaviest, when I was really unhappy, unhappy and married, I was 12 and a half stones, which is big for me. My sister Tura went through it, Bushra, Zakia, all of us. And we were the family with boobs and, well, I'm not, I don't have much hair, but like boobs and bum and do you remember short jacket gate that uncle who called up? It's because a short jacket on us, you can tell. You got a tight figure around the bum. But on my cousins you couldn't and we were lambasted by these aunties.

We were constantly ridiculed, constantly scrutinized and then my mum would join in and it's like you just couldn't win and the funny thing is I never felt my weight in school. But there's a point at school right where you're just like everybody else because you're just all kids. Yeah. And then suddenly you become a girl that becomes an identifier maybe you have some tits and then suddenly PE is very difficult everything starts to get difficult right moving on I want to talk to you about something but before we dive in I've got a question to ask you mm-hmm if you and I want you to answer honestly

you've always answered me honestly I don't know why I'm asking you this as a caveat, but I mean, answer honestly. If you could right now take a Zempik, would you? No, you wouldn't. I wouldn't. Okay. I'm a mum and I think I have to like practice what I preach. It doesn't work with my moral standing to do that. It just doesn't. Fuck's sake, Rubina. Would you? Yeah!

But, but. Secretly. No, no, no, no. Are you on Azempik? I fucking wish, sadly. So here's what I'd do. I'd get the Azempik, then I'd look at it. This is what I'd actually do.

It's my honest answer. I would say yes. And then it's sit on the dining room table along with all my other mess. And I've got an addictive personality, Rubina. If I pop the cherry on a Zempik, I know myself. You're Michael Jackson face. You're done. I'm done. You know me well. So I would look at it and look, I don't I don't have an eating disorder, have disordered eating, but I work out, you know, I try and eat healthily, but I press the fuck it button too much. This is my problem, right? So it's like really, really healthy. Really, really not healthy. But also that's normal. That's like almost 90% of

society presses the fuck it button regularly. Fuck it button what? Four times a month. It's too much. It's too much. This is the other thing. I'm like, I'm rationing the fuck it button. But like, skinny is back. I mean, my sister Tua showed me a photo of Mindy Kaling. Mindy Kaling, who we admire, who we love. Brown. Everyone who was publicly fat, and I'm using that in quotation marks, Rebel Wilson, Adele, suddenly became thin when they became famous. And I just think that that is like really awful messaging. Like, but also, how can you shit on them? It's their body. They want to do what they want to do on it. It's like, well, exactly. How can you shit on them? How can you shit on the Kardashians who I'm not saying that they are responsible for a lot, but they also perpetuate it. They're also the problem, but they're also the victims.

They're also the victims. They're absolutely the victims. That's so right. But people look up to them, but they're also trapped in their own fucked up, whatever they have to be about food to get the collabs, to get the sponsorships, to get all this shit so I was walking through Oxford Circus today because I knew we were doing this episode about skinny and I was like let me be aware not that already not fucking aware it's in my subconscious but like let me actively look at all the mannequins and by the time I got to the end of Oxford Street I was livid and I thought how dare they how dare they dictate a woman's body shape.

Every single mannequin is the same. There's no one, look at this five, six women in this studio, right? Different heights, different bra sizes, different hips. And it's like, we don't celebrate that diversity. So of course, when you see one image, the Western ideal of beauty and Bollywood, because we're hit with a fucking double whammy, you're just fucked. But at least in Bollywood, they let some body fat be shown. Maybe the 90s, yes. Maybe things have changed a little bit. In the 90s, yes. I grew up thinking that that, like, I think the reason I didn't have a problem with my body is also because

of Bollywood. Because I was like, yeah, I'm an Indian girl. My Indian body is not a white woman's body. So I will have a little tire. And I willed in my head, try to believe that that's sexy. I willed myself to do so. And that's the power of your amazing brain. You can do that to yourself. And so yes, look, a Zempik is fucking everywhere. There's skinny jabs. The whole internet will continue talking to you about this shit. Change your fucking algorithm. Stop following this shit. How do you do that by the way? You just Google shit that you would never need to know. So like monkeys eating bananas. Yeah. No, like is my monkey ill? Does my monkey have a disease?

But then you just get monkey. Where to get good coffee in Alaska? Not going. But you fuck with the algorithms. The algorithm thinks that you're going to Alaska. The algorithm thinks you're in a monkey. The algorithm thinks you're a man. Like penis, penis and larger. Like just look up loads of shit because the algorithm knows you're a woman. It knows you're of a certain age and it knows what you like to purchase. And it can hear you, you know that. And it can hear you.

So fuck with the algorithm. And then you can keep your slate clean. And also just start looking at other videos online, man. There's so many other good videos. There are already good cooking videos. I'm a bit of a food porn thing. What's on your For You page? It's mostly... Right now it's body transformation videos.

That's not very good. I am actually fascinated by those body transformation videos. I'm like, really? I am. On my Instagram for you page, it's mostly snacks and desserts. Snacks, yeah, desserts, donuts, bagels. Oh my God. Here it is. It's like snacks, desserts, Rihanna, lots of dancing videos, catwalk models. But interestingly, not because of their skinniness, it's because of fashion. And I love like, you know, Naomi Campbell does that work. I love the wall. But that's what there's a bit like more desserts, coffee, dance videos, loads of stuff about mobs. I'm loving what the moment.

I got so much kid shit. Like people being like, here's my toddler haul. Cause I'm dressing my toddler like my husband. It's awful, awful shit. Okay, fine. Well now we know. That's kind of a bad and scary place, guys. Just use in moderation. Use in moderation. Right. Okay, Rubina, the desire that we wanted to be skinny back in the day. How do you as a mother of two change that? How do I change that? What do we do? Look, I think it's unrealistic to genuinely believe that you could

completely silence your negative inner voice. It will be there. You have to learn to live with it and listen to it sometimes and not listen to it sometimes. Listening to your inner voice and being like, that's a really bad side of me and acknowledging it is important too. But I think insecurity is very much a learned behaviour. And so when I look in the mirror in front of my two boys, I'm always going to be like, I look great. You did it again. You look great. And I want them to feel that way about the way that they look. So I'm always giving them nice compliments about how they look. Like when I dress my toddler in the morning, I pull the clothes and I'm like, you look great.

Do you want to see what you look like in the mirror? Because my partner's like no mirrors in his bedroom. So he doesn't have any mirrors in the room. But sometimes it's a treat for him to come into my room, look in my long length mirror. And then he's like, I do look good. And I'm like, that's's so nice that is what I want. My advice to myself and any young woman listening is it's exhausting and it's a waste of time. It's exhausting and it's a fucking waste of time. And also be kind to yourself like don't be harsh to yourself be kind to yourself. You have this one amazing body that's doing all this shit for you. Be kind to it. And that's what I'm doing.

Yeah, yeah. And the main reason we wanted to do this episode is because we hear you. You know, you're listening to us right now, but we fucking hear you. We see you. We get you. We are you. We are you. You've reached the Shaggyney Auntie's call centre. Want advice you can't ask your real aunties for? Like, how do you ask for what you want in bed? Not sure which hole is a goal?

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And now it's time for the Shaggyney aunties. Please remember to ask the bill payers permission before calling our Shaggyney aunties are not medical professionals and bear no responsibility for the consequences of your own actions. Nicely done, Poppy. Thank you. So today we've got a message. I'll read it. Hi Shaggy aunties. My problem is that I've been brought up with a typical traditional

Indian background where the word sex is the equivalent of Lord Voldemort. Did you write this? This is so like totally you. Definitely should not be named. You don't have to be told that sex is shameful, but you just know it is. Now I've been a day-oh-day chocri. I was like day chocri. I was about to say it like the boss. What does that mean actually? Is that in your language?

Yeah, it's Gujarati, right? Right, Gujarati. Now I've been a day chocri, good girl all my life, so I cannot help but think about guilt or shame during and after sex. I don't enjoy it like I fully should. I'm vanilla in the bedroom and I can't bring myself to be adventurous because in my head it's dirty and wrong when I know it's not. How do I break free of these stupid thoughts? The hardest part is that I know they're stupid.

Oh my God, I really want to hug this listener so much. Oh, Barb's. I love that she's a daïe chokri because I'm a daïe chokri too. Fuck you all. I mean, you have your daiyi chokri because I'm a daiyi chokri too. Like fuck you all. I mean you have, you're a daiyi chokri mum. Yeah. Do you know what? I think it's hard and the one way I can relate to this is with a very early boyfriend I used to feel really self-conscious of him going down on me because I'd be like oh I'm dirty

and it's dirty and you're doing this thing for me that's like quite, you're submitting to me and that's also something that's you know raised as a good, as you feel like you should be the one submitting. And I used to find it really, really tense when anyone would try and go down on me and I'd be like, Oh my God, don't do it. This is like, and it was so much shame, so much shame because I was like, I can't bear to have somebody do something so vulgar to me. Um, and I, I was thinking it was vulgar, but Oh my God, when someone goes down to you, it's fucking best thing ever. And I'm so glad I got over that hump, but it took me ages to not feel the shame around that. How did you get yourself out of that? I had somebody get really into it and I don't know,

then it just got me really into it. I think it's just about your partner maybe easing you into it, but you can do the work on yourself actually. I would say with this listener, I know exactly what she means because I grew up where the sex was equivalent to Lord you know who. You did not mention it, you didn't have it. My mom and dad had sex six times, but I genuinely thought the stork brought down.

Allah just like gave six children. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And sex, and I completely, whether you're Indian or Muslim or doesn't matter, like South Asians and sex, it's not a vibe. And it was, you were taught it was shameful. But I would say to you, each day, look at yourself in the mirror,

each time you have sex, it's that voice, it's that little voice, and you just turn that dial down. And it's not gonna happen overnight. It's not gonna happen overnight, listener. You need to, each time you have sex, own it, enjoy it. And I know exactly what she means when she says she knows it's stupid. The same way I know vaping is stupid and smoking is stupid. The same way I know this voice telling me to be skinny is stupid.

And it's like it takes years to train that voice. Do not give that voice control. What about alternate theory here? Don't tell her that she's just a burner. No, no, I know. I know my voice. Everything with you. in arson. My shackling heart deep as I know has some problems. But what about alternate theory?

And actually, because I just thought about this just now as you were speaking is like, knowing sex is shameful if you think this. And you also have this idea in your head that it's dirty. It can also be dirty. Yeah. You know what I mean? So not like lean into it.

Lean into it. And I think that sometimes is really nice. Cause I was like, yeah into it. Lean into it. And I think that sometimes is really nice because I was like, yeah, it is kind of disgusting that you're about to put your tongue in between my legs and you're going to lick my clitoris. That is really quite an intense and- but then you're like, oh, that's kind of dirty. That's kind of hot dirty. It's hot dirty.

And this is the other thing, like go full ham. Also, there is nothing wrong with being vanilla in the bedroom. Okay? And you don't have to be adventurous. Those things come with time. All right? Also, if you're South Asian, you're not just vanilla, because you'll always be chocolate. Good one. But listen, honestly, it takes time. It's not going to happen overnight. And that voice

inside your head being like, this is what you just did is shameful. You're a slag. What you're doing, turn her down each day, turn her down, because I felt exactly the way you did and it just takes time. Oh, but I think there is a way to yeah, again, I'm giving the alternate perspective here, but you could also be like, yeah, I'm a slag. I fucking love that. Some guys like, I don't know if she's going in the bedroom. If you're into that, I was just going to say, I don't know if she's ready for day chocory to slag. Day chocory to slag. It's this like die. It's a lot. But if you can take on a character, there's three options. Go full dirty. Option two, the voice in your head, turn her down. Option three was role play. Adopt a character. And there you have it.

Great. That's all for now. Thank you so much for listening. That was quite an intense episode. That was an intense episode. And I'm sorry. And'm really glad I, I'm sorry and I'm not sorry because I'm really glad I got to talk to you about something that is clearly important to you, me and so many women. And it just comes out in ways that is for me, I'm still full of rage about it, but I'm trying to get better and kinder. So thank you. No, and thank you for your honesty. I love speaking to you, but I mean, you know that because we do this podcast. If you have any thoughts or questions, any problems,

any conundrums, if you've got a dead boyfriend, a dead girlfriend, they're annoying the fuck out of you, then the Shaggy aunties are here for you. You can email us at browngirlsdoit2atbbc.co.uk. Or you can send us a WhatsApp or voice note to 07968 10822. Bye! What do Bridgerton actor Adjoa Ando, Nature presenter Rae-Win Grant and TikTok sensation Mama Seabes all have in common? They're all guests on Dear

Daughters stars from the BBC World Service. I'm Namulanta Kombo and for the new series of Dear Daughter I'm welcoming an all-star lineup to share stories of parenting in the spotlight. Listen now by searching for Dear Daughter, I'm welcoming an all-star lineup to share stories of parenting in the spotlight. Listen now by searching for Dear Daughter wherever you get your BBC podcasts. ZOOM